Broncos are believed to be eyeing John Harbaugh, Mike Shanahan

[DenBronx]

Yes, the Broncos will engage in a traditional coaching search, now that Vance Joseph has been fired after two failed seasons on the job. The final outcome could end up being decidedly non-conventional.

The chatter in league circles regarding Denver’s future continues to be that G.M. John Elway would like to find a way to hire Ravens coach John Harbaugh or, failing that, a path to returning Mike Shanahan to the franchise.

Shanahan, who was fired 11 years ago today by the Broncos, is 66 years old — younger than Patriots coach Bill Belichick and Seahawks coach Pete Carroll. Shanahan last coached in 2013, when his four-year stint in Washington ended. Shanahan clearly has wanted to get back in, but he has had no serious suitors.

Other than the Broncos, of course. Elway reportedly wanted to fire Vance Joseph and hire Shanahan a year ago. Two years ago, Elway hired Joseph at a time when he could have hired Kyle Shanahan, Mike’s son.

Vikings fans could be very interested in this potential development, since perhaps Mike would be inclined to trade Case Keenum for Kirk Cousins, straight up.


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/12/31/broncos-are-believed-to-be-eyeing-john-harbaugh-mike-shanahan/

[Dapper Dan]

I'm okay with is.

[Poet]

Elway really has lost his nerve.

[BroncoWave]

Depends on what we have to trade. If it takes something stupid like Von or a first round pick, no thanks. I would like him though.

[UnderArmour]

Depends on what we have to trade. If it takes something stupid like Von or a first round pick, no thanks. I would like him though.

4th or 5th rounder likely, assuming he doesn't just get let out.

[BroncoWave]

4th or 5th rounder likely, assuming he doesn't just get let out.

Not really sure why they'd want to get rid of him but I'd happily take him if they do.

[Dapper Dan]

Not really sure why they'd want to get rid of him but I'd happily take him if they do.

They see the writing on the wall. Better to get a 4th or 5th than nothing, right?

[BroncoWave]

They see the writing on the wall. Better to get a 4th or 5th than nothing, right?

He's under contract through next season though. So unless he really wants out, which I guess is possible, not sure why they'd dump him.

[dogfish]

lord help us. . .

[Poet]

lord help us. . .

There's no god here.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Mike Shanahan back would be a colossal mistake.

No more patience with Elway. His hubris is destroying this franchise. Shit at drafting, shit at identifying QB talent, shit at hiring coaches.

[DenBronx]

Do teams usually trade Head Coaches for 4th or 5th rounders? Also, didn’t a report come out that Harbaugh wants to stay in Balt plus they are working on an extension for him? Switching QBs and making the playoffs sure did change the tone over there. Kinda like the tone everyone had when the Broncos went on their little streak and had hopes of winning out. Didn’t hear alot of VJ firings being talked about then.

I would love Harbaugh here though, let Kubiak be the OC as well. Hell...do everything in your power to go get Wade Phillips back too. Am I dreaming?

[DenBronx]

Mike Shanahan back would be a colossal mistake.

No more patience with Elway. His hubris is destroying this franchise. Shit at drafting, shit at identifying QB talent, shit at hiring coaches.


He brought us to 2 SBs since 2012 and you are high af. You must of not been around pre Elway. THAT was a shit show

[BroncoJoe]

Mike Shanahan back would be a colossal mistake.

No more patience with Elway. His hubris is destroying this franchise. Shit at drafting, shit at identifying QB talent, shit at hiring coaches.

Just so sick of hearing this garbage. You all need to seek counseling or something. 4-12 franchise when he took over and "only" took us to two superbowls, winning one.

13474

[BroncoWave]

He brought us to 2 SBs since 2012 and you are high af. You must of not been around pre Elway. THAT was a shit show

All of that success basically stemmed from signing Manning. As great and historic of a signing as that was, he can't hang his hat on that forever. We eventually have to win post Manning. If our next coach and QB are flops, it's going to get harder and harder to justify letting him still run things.

[BroncoJoe]

All of that success basically stemmed from signing Manning. As great and historic of a signing as that was, he can't hang his hat on that forever. We eventually have to win post Manning. If our next coach and QB are flops, it's going to get harder and harder to justify letting him still run things.

Elway has played a part in all three SB wins.

[Poet]

He brought us to 2 SBs since 2012 and you are high af. You must of not been around pre Elway. THAT was a shit show

He brought in Fox and a strong defense could win a weak division.

He hit the lottery with PFM, who brought us great defensive FAs. And we were lucky that it all lined up for us. What happens if we get Manning but Ware, Ward, Talib, aren't available? A lot of it was luck, and he's done poorly for awhile now.

Let's tell the whole story, now. I believe in him. I tink he will make the changes to his style that he needs. But there are no sacred cows.

[BroncoWave]

Elway has played a part in all three SB wins.

And I'll be eternally greatful for that. But are you suggesting that gives him a job for life? I'm not saying we should fire him right now, but he eventually has to get this thing back on track. I have faith that he can do it, hence me not wanting him gone right now. But it will be hard to keep that faith if he mangles another head coach hire and QB pick.

[DenBronx]

All of that success basically stemmed from signing Manning. As great and historic of a signing as that was, he can't hang his hat on that forever. We eventually have to win post Manning. If our next coach and QB are flops, it's going to get harder and harder to justify letting him still run things.

But it also came from moving on from Tebow. The fans were rabid about him. Elway took a lot of heat for that. He also drafted Von Miller, hired Kubiak (that coaching hire proved to be key more than anything) and put Wade in as DC. It wasn’t all Manning. Look at the key vets he hired as well. I know Manning brought alot of Ws and excitement but Elway was the one who had to give him a reason to come here in the first place.

[BroncoWave]

But it also came from moving on from Tebow. The fans were rabid about him. Elway took a lot of heat for that. He also drafted Von Miller, hired Kubiak (that coaching hire proved to be key more than anything) and put Wade in as DC. It wasn’t all Manning. Look at the key vets he hired as well. I know Manning brought alot of Ws and excitement but Elway was the one who had to give him a reason to come here in the first place.

I give him full credit for the Manning signing an the fuits it bore. It was a great job on his part. But a free agent like Manning comes around once in a lifetime. He needs to prove that he can find us a QB when a HoF guy doesn't magically hit the market.

[DenBronx]

It bothers me when people say Elway got lucky. The guy worked hard and did his homework. He was very aggressive at building a championship team. We are now rebuilding and fans want to dump on him. Smh

[Northman]

All of that success basically stemmed from signing Manning. As great and historic of a signing as that was, he can't hang his hat on that forever. We eventually have to win post Manning. If our next coach and QB are flops, it's going to get harder and harder to justify letting him still run things.

No, he cant but its WAY to early to start throwing him to the wolves in my opinion.

[dogfish]

i want to keep believing in 7. . . the coaching candidates we're looking at kinda make me wish he'd retired, though. . .


:defense:

[BroncoWave]

No, he cant but its WAY to early to start throwing him to the wolves in my opinion.

I agree it's too early and I've said as much.

[Dapper Dan]

All of that success basically stemmed from signing Manning. As great and historic of a signing as that was, he can't hang his hat on that forever. We eventually have to win post Manning. If our next coach and QB are flops, it's going to get harder and harder to justify letting him still run things.

It's kinda hard to win after SBs. The Packers still have an elite QB and still went to shit. I'm not happy with Elway but given the success he's had, he has a very long leash. Elway is the Denver Broncos. He's going to be here for a while. He's earned it. I hope he works out a way to own the team.

[BroncoJoe]

And I'll be eternally greatful for that. But are you suggesting that gives him a job for life? I'm not saying we should fire him right now, but he eventually has to get this thing back on track. I have faith that he can do it, hence me not wanting him gone right now. But it will be hard to keep that faith if he mangles another head coach hire and QB pick.

It's been three f'ing years since SB50. Give the guy a break.

[Poet]

But it also came from moving on from Tebow. The fans were rabid about him. Elway took a lot of heat for that. He also drafted Von Miller, hired Kubiak (that coaching hire proved to be key more than anything) and put Wade in as DC. It wasn’t all Manning. Look at the key vets he hired as well. I know Manning brought alot of Ws and excitement but Elway was the one who had to give him a reason to come here in the first place.

Rabid in both love and hate. And he signed PFM. That ended the heat pretty quick.

Regarding Von Miller - that was the obvious pick. We know what JFE does when the first round pick isn't obvious. He struggles. I'll defend some of those struggles (Ray and Bolles) and won't defend others - (Denver reportedly knew Lynch was lazy).

He hired Kubiak who won a SB on a loaded roster. Kubiak's offense never did a damn thing, and it went down in production after he forced Manning to play his system. Make no mistake, Kubiak's main contribution was being average and stable.

Kubiak had his choice of DC and got Wade. That was actually his main contribution.

[Northman]

He brought in Fox and a strong defense could win a weak division.

He hit the lottery with PFM, who brought us great defensive FAs. And we were lucky that it all lined up for us. What happens if we get Manning but Ware, Ward, Talib, aren't available? A lot of it was luck, and he's done poorly for awhile now.

Let's tell the whole story, now. I believe in him. I tink he will make the changes to his style that he needs. But there are no sacred cows.

Winning championships is luck anyway. Its about chemistry, solid coaching, staying healthy, and good players. All of those things were a direct result of John mother****ing Elway. I get it, John is responsible for guys like VJ, Keenum, etc but you cant let that overshadow the great things he has done since becoming GM.

[BroncoWave]

It bothers me when people say Elway got lucky. The guy worked hard and did his homework. He was very aggressive at building a championship team. We are now rebuilding and fans want to dump on him. Smh

There is an element of luck to a guy like Manning hitting the market. To Elway's credit he took full advantage when half the league was after him. I'm not downplaying anything Elway did to bring us that ring. But now he has to do it the old-fashioned way. Draft and develop. The jury is still out on if he can.

[Poet]

It bothers me when people say Elway got lucky. The guy worked hard and did his homework. He was very aggressive at building a championship team. We are now rebuilding and fans want to dump on him. Smh

You cannot see how a lot of things, things which are hard to replicate, lined up for him?

[Northman]

i want to keep believing in 7. . . the coaching candidates we're looking at kinda make me wish he'd retired, though. . .


:defense:

While the Shanahan thing kind of bothers me the Harbaugh thing doesnt. Im not nearly as angry about as you apparently but much like when we got Fox i think a stability is needed again unless they get extremely lucky with a young coordinator.

[BroncoJoe]

You cannot see how a lot of things, things which are hard to replicate, lined up for him?

Or, maybe - just maybe - he lined them up.

[Poet]

Winning championships is luck anyway. Its about chemistry, solid coaching, staying healthy, and good players. All of those things were a direct result of John mother****ing Elway. I get it, John is responsible for guys like VJ, Keenum, etc but you cant let that overshadow the great things he has done since becoming GM.

I don't think it's overshadowing. I defend some of his moves. I maintain faith in him. But it's been three years, the team is getting worse. It's style time.

[BroncoWave]

It's been three f'ing years since SB50. Give the guy a break.

Do I need to repeat myself for a third time that I still think he can turn things around? I realize it's sacrelige to heap anything but the highest of praise on Elway, but I think it's more than fair to question some of the decisions he's made in his time here. That's great that you want to give him a complete pass because he's John Elway, but he does eventually have to get us back to winning.

[Poet]

Or, maybe - just maybe - he lined them up.

I don't think he had a hand in making Ware, Ward, and talib FAs. Or Manning a FA. He certainly did do his job in inking all of them.

[BroncoWave]

It's kinda hard to win after SBs. The Packers still have an elite QB and still went to shit. I'm not happy with Elway but given the success he's had, he has a very long leash. Elway is the Denver Broncos. He's going to be here for a while. He's earned it. I hope he works out a way to own the team.

I'd love for him to eventually be the owner. He's great as the face of an organization. I would just hope he'd, at that time, bring someone else in to run the football stuff and not become the next Jerry Jones.

[aberdien]

Give King what he wants.

#HireShanny


http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1350790/shannyface.gif

[Northman]

I don't think it's overshadowing. I defend some of his moves. I maintain faith in him. But it's been three years, the team is getting worse. It's style time.

Sure and if in a couple of the years the team hasnt improved than i would be ok with moving on from him. I understand the reality is John has to be good at "building" from the ground up as he is a "building" from the FA market. But i will still give him a couple of years to get that sorted.

[Poet]

Sure and if in a couple of the years the team hasnt improved than i would be ok with moving on from him. I understand the reality is John has to be good at "building" from the ground up as he is a "building" from the FA market. But i will still give him a couple of years to get that sorted.

He gets all of next year. That's four years.

[VonDoom]

https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/1079838141358305280?s=21

[BroncoWave]

https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/1079838141358305280?s=21

I had a feeling the Ravens would want our first for him. No thanks.

[BroncoWave]

He gets all of next year. That's four years.

If we draft a QB this year, I'd still give him another 2-3 years to build with the new coach and QB. If we're 3 more years down the line and still not winning, though, it becomes hot seat time in my opinion.

[Poet]

If we draft a QB this year, I'd still give him another 2-3 years to build with the new coach and QB. If we're 3 more years down the line and still not winning, though, it becomes hot seat time in my opinion.

That seems fair. Let's hope the Qb shows promise right away.

I just wanna die fam.

[broncofaninfla]

Elways clear message from the presser was all options open, Shanahan not a consideration at this time and weighing all options in trading for a coach. Given the team needs to build trading makes no sense and Klis has since stated Shanahan is not happening so it's likely neither of these occur.

[DenBronx]

I was just going to post Klis tweet. I don’t even know why Klis is even mentioning the #10 overall pick, that is ludicrous.

[BroncoWave]

I was just going to post Klis tweet. I don’t even know why Klis is even mentioning the #10 overall pick, that is ludicrous.

I'm sure he's mentioning it because that's what the Ravens are asking for.

[aberdien]

Elway has the duration of the next head coaches job to prove his worth as a GM/President/Whatever he is. He'll be fine, I hope.

[DenBronx]

I had a feeling the Ravens would want our first for him. No thanks.


That’s pure speculation on Klis part. I believe the Ravens originally wanted to move on from him but saw how many teams are going to need a HC. No doubt they will take phone calls but a first rounder? No way in hell

[aberdien]

That seems fair. Let's hope the Qb shows promise right away.

I just wanna die fam.

For somebody who lived through years of Bengals mediocrity you're pretty damn impatient homie.

[Northman]

For all you youngins with the old geezer jokes, why do you hate the Broncos so much?

[DenBronx]

For somebody who lived through years of Bengals mediocrity you're pretty damn impatient homie.


oof


Abe’s got a point King.


2019 season and chill?

[VonDoom]

I was just going to post Klis tweet. I don’t even know why Klis is even mentioning the #10 overall pick, that is ludicrous.

PFT speculated yesterday that the asking price for Harbaugh would be two first rounders

Allbright put this out there this morning - if the Ravens wanted to swap our high pick for their low pick and Harbaugh, would we do it? Not on the table but interesting to think about

[BroncoWave]

For all you youngins with the old geezer jokes, why do you hate the Broncos so much?

WTF are you talking about?

[Poet]

For somebody who lived through years of Bengals mediocrity you're pretty damn impatient homie.

Oh, I don't think so. I was asking for a full blown rebuild two years ago, and those take two to four years to come to fruition. I think I just see moves that I strongly disagree with and react in my bullish and even bullshit, arguably, manner.

Let's say we draft a QB and he's bleh for two seasons. The King rides. But let's say we give that development time to a puny QB with no skills like TS or CK, then king rides....with rage.

That's the difference.

Also, when I say promise, I don't mean like a campagin as statistically successful as Newton or Mayfield's was. I just mean flash promise. I mean give me a glimpse of why we took you.

[UnderArmour]

If Harbaugh refuses an extension, next year is the last of his deal. The Ravens will NEVER get a first round pick for a guy that can effectively just mail it in for a year, and then get paid in the offseason. This isn't Gruden where there's like 2 or 3 years left on his deal. Also understated, the Ravens have a new GM who may want his own guy. Keeping Harbaugh hostage would hurt his chance to hire his own coach, as it would affect his standing in the league. A "mutual parting of ways" is a possibility even with the announcement.

[Northman]

I havent heard anything about Harbaugh needing to be traded for picks. My understanding yesterday is that he hasnt signed the one year extension the Ravens offered so he could decline to do that and go to another team on his own. Not sure where Klis is getting that information.

[Poet]

For all you youngins with the old geezer jokes, why do you hate the Broncos so much?

Easy handsome. :D

[Northman]

If Harbaugh refuses an extension, next year is the last of his deal. The Ravens will NEVER get a first round pick for a guy that can effectively just mail it in for a year, and then get paid in the offseason. This isn't Gruden where there's like 2 or 3 years left on his deal.

Exactly.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

He brought us to 2 SBs since 2012 and you are high af. You must of not been around pre Elway. THAT was a shit show

He landed Manning. That was the piece which enabled us to get to those Super Bowls and attracted players who wanted to play here. Credit to Elway for getting the big fish though.


Just so sick of hearing this garbage. You all need to seek counseling or something. 4-12 franchise when he took over and "only" took us to two superbowls, winning one.

13474

See above. Can't live on past glory forever. A lot of Broncos fans think John can do no wrong when he is as responsible for the mess we're in just as much as anyone else.

The ad hominems won't change the fact he's a shitty executive.

[BroncoWave]

I havent heard anything about Harbaugh needing to be traded for picks. My understanding yesterday is that he hasnt signed the one year extension the Ravens offered so he could decline to do that and go to another team on his own. Not sure where Klis is getting that information.

He's still under contract through next season.

[DenBronx]

Might as well go get his brother for free.

[aberdien]

Oh, I don't think so. I was asking for a full blown rebuild two years ago, and those take two to four years to come to fruition. I think I just see moves that I strongly disagree with and react in my bullish and even bullshit, arguably, manner.

Let's say we draft a QB and he's bleh for two seasons. The King rides. But let's say we give that development time to a puny QB with no skills like TS or CK, then king rides....with rage.

That's the difference.

Also, when I say promise, I don't mean like a campagin as statistically successful as Newton or Mayfield's was. I just mean flash promise. I mean give me a glimpse of why we took you.
Most teams haven't won a Superbowl in 25 years and we've won 3. Let us rejoice and be patient!

[DenBronx]

If the Broncos really want John Harbaugh then they will have to give up something for him. My guess is a 2nd round pick.

[Poet]

Just so sick of hearing this garbage. You all need to seek counseling or something. 4-12 franchise when he took over and "only" took us to two superbowls, winning one.

13474

This is pretty mean.

[BroncoWave]

Most teams haven't won a Superbowl in 25 years and we've won 3. Let us rejoice and be patient!

We've been such a great franchise because we don't rest on our laurels. We could have easily given Tebow more time to develop and been more patient with him, but we went for the jugular and PFM. Being patient is great to a point, but it can lead to complacency.

[Freyaka]

Vikings fans could be very interested in this potential development, since perhaps Mike would be inclined to trade Case Keenum for Kirk Cousins, straight up.



That's the part where it got too silly for my suspension of disbelief....

[Poet]

Most teams haven't won a Superbowl in 25 years and we've won 3. Let us rejoice and be patient!

Again, if I'm asking for a rebuild, I think I'm patient. IDK, fam. I've also been told I don't get to enjoy those SB's.

[aberdien]

I'm just sad that Ellwayis hasn't even attempted to reach out to David Shaw.

Let us be rejected at least!

[Freyaka]

If the Broncos really want John Harbaugh then they will have to give up something for him. My guess is a 2nd round pick.

That's about the most I could justify and even that is too rich for my blood. The Ravens apparently want two firsts...

[UnderArmour]

That's about the most I could justify and even that is too rich for my blood. The Ravens apparently want two firsts...

Source?

[aberdien]

Again, if I'm asking for a rebuild, I think I'm patient. IDK, fam. I've also been told I don't get to enjoy those SB's.

Enjoy those Superbowls.

[DenBronx]

That's the part where it got too silly for my suspension of disbelief....


Yeah, I almost didn’t even post this article based on that last part. That would be funny though

[Poet]

I'm just sad that Ellwayis hasn't even attempted to reach out to David Shaw.

Let us be rejected at least!

You're a good man. I am a piece of shit and I deserve to fl...y...to a beach and hopefully not be attacked by whalers.

[Freyaka]

I havent heard anything about Harbaugh needing to be traded for picks. My understanding yesterday is that he hasnt signed the one year extension the Ravens offered so he could decline to do that and go to another team on his own.

Yes, in 2020. He is not available for 2019 without a trade because he's under contract with the Ravens for the 2019 season. The extension offered was one to extend him through 2020.

[Poet]

Enjoy those Superbowls.

I figured out how I would be if I were a Denver player from those teams.

[DenBronx]

Again, if I'm asking for a rebuild, I think I'm patient. IDK, fam. I've also been told I don't get to enjoy those SB's.



Nah embrace those. Snuggle nightly with that naughty little SB50 trophy. That SB was special as hell. Everyone picked Carolina to win, Cam was cocky as hell...us fans lived through years of misery and Manning gave the haters the middle finger as he went out on top.


But for god sakes...be more patient! :)

[Poet]

Nah embrace those. Snuggle nightly with that naughty little SB50 trophy. That SB was special as hell. Everyone picked Carolina to win, Cam was cocky as hell...us fans lived through years of misery and Manning gave the haters the middle finger as he went out on top.


But for god sakes...be more patient! :)

I want at least one season with a to three pick, and a season with top ten picks. I'm in it for the long haul.

[DenBronx]

What happens if John retires then the Ravens hire someone? Could John unretire and coach in 2019 without any legal implications to the Ravens?

[Nomad]

LoL. You guys getting wound up, and it's only the first day of the offseason. By the time the draft comes around, you guys will be walking around like zombies. :D

[Poet]

LoL. You guys getting wound up, and it's only the first day of the offseason. By the time the draft comes around, you guys will be walking around like zombies. :D

I am looking forward to Flacco, Munchak, and Kubiak styling.

[TXBRONC]

I was just going to post Klis tweet. I don’t even know why Klis is even mentioning the #10 overall pick, that is ludicrous.

Klis probably mentioned it because Elway was asked directly or already been rumored that the Raven would want the 10 overall pick.

[TXBRONC]

He landed Manning. That was the piece which enabled us to get to those Super Bowls and attracted players who wanted to play here. Credit to Elway for getting the big fish though.



See above. Can't live on past glory forever. A lot of Broncos fans think John can do no wrong when he is as responsible for the mess we're in just as much as anyone else.

The ad hominems won't change the fact he's a shitty executive.

Shitty executives don't put together teams that compete in Super Bowls.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

All of that success basically stemmed from signing Manning. As great and historic of a signing as that was, he can't hang his hat on that forever. We eventually have to win post Manning. If our next coach and QB are flops, it's going to get harder and harder to justify letting him still run things.

Wait, wait. Just Manning... and Ware, and Ward, and Talib, and drafting Von, Wolfe, Jackson, and Trevathan, etc. This revisionist history bullshit is old and tired AF. Elway brought respect back to Denver after nearly a decade without any. Manning wasn’t the only reason we were successful. Sure, we haven’t replaced Manning yet. But shit, 2 Super Bowl appearances in 4 years including going from the best offense in history and completely doing a 180 to build the best defense of the modern era in 2 years? Yeah, Elway ******* rules.

[BroncoWave]

Wait, wait. Just Manning... and Ware, and Ward, and Talib, and drafting Von, Wolfe, Jackson, and Trevathan, etc. This revisionist history bullshit is old and tired AF. Elway brought respect back to Denver after nearly a decade without any. Manning wasn’t the only reason we were successful. Sure, we haven’t replaced Manning yet. But shit, 2 Super Bowl appearances in 4 years including going from the best offense in history and completely doing a 180 to build the best defense of the modern era in 2 years? Yeah, Elway ******* rules.

Jesus Christ some of you guys get sensitive when anyone gives Elway even the slightest bit of criticism. I fully agree that he did a great job in assembling that super bowl team. No doubt. Literally all anyone is saying is that he doesn't get to rest on those laurels forever. The simple fact is that since Manning has left, some of Elway's decisions have been pretty shaky. That doesn't mean I think we should fire him, because I don't. Just saying it's time to start making some better moves to get us back in contention. And if he doesn't, his job won't be safe forever. Is that completely unreasonable to say? Does he get a lifetime pass because he's John Elway, or does he have to be held accountable eventually?

[Shazam!]

I knew shit was going to be bad post Manning but no one expected a Coach totally unprepared. That's half the problem I think. Kubes aline would drag them to 9x7.

[Poet]

Jesus Christ some of you guys get sensitive when anyone gives Elway even the slightest bit of criticism. I fully agree that he did a great job in assembling that super bowl team. No doubt. Literally all anyone is saying is that he doesn't get to rest on those laurels forever. The simple fact is that since Manning has left, some of Elway's decisions have been pretty shaky. That doesn't mean I think we should fire him, because I don't. Just saying it's time to start making some better moves to get us back in contention. And if he doesn't, his job won't be safe forever. Is that completely unreasonable to say? Does he get a lifetime pass because he's John Elway, or does he have to be held accountable eventually?

This sort of mentality and stubborn attitude is why I want a younger coach, too. If we could always get a FA QB to attract big name FAs then I would want JFE over the world. Now he has to rebuild a team the traditional way, at least for now.

[Hawgdriver]

It bothers me when people say Elway got lucky. The guy worked hard and did his homework. He was very aggressive at building a championship team. We are now rebuilding and fans want to dump on him. Smh

Nah, just wondering out loud if he's capable of this particular task in these circumstances. It's a type of challenge he hasn't yet overcome--success without a proven QB. I'm rooting for him!

[Simple Jaded]

Elway can’t be a sacred cow, they’d be no impetus for change.

[Freyaka]

Source?

https://milehighsports.com/report-ravens-want-two-first-round-picks-for-harbaugh-broncos-should-pounce/

[Simple Jaded]

John Clayton is saying a 3rd, maybe a 2nd.

They’ll never get a 1st, much less two, 5 weeks ago they were going to get a divorce.

[Poet]

If that trade happens at least we will know that he won't retire on us.

[Freyaka]

John Clayton is saying a 3rd, maybe a 2nd.

They’ll never get a 1st, much less two, 5 weeks ago they were going to get a divorce.

I'd be ok with a third. Anything higher and it's not worth it. For two firsts, you might as well just go throw those firsts at the packers and make a play for Aaron Rodgers.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Harbaugh is easily worth a 2nd

[Poet]

Harbaugh is easily worth a 2nd

Eh. He's not not worth it. But...this should be an exciting time.

He's not exciting.

He's...oatmeal.

[Cugel]

Jesus Christ some of you guys get sensitive when anyone gives Elway even the slightest bit of criticism. I fully agree that he did a great job in assembling that super bowl team. No doubt. Literally all anyone is saying is that he doesn't get to rest on those laurels forever. The simple fact is that since Manning has left, some of Elway's decisions have been pretty shaky. That doesn't mean I think we should fire him, because I don't. Just saying it's time to start making some better moves to get us back in contention. And if he doesn't, his job won't be safe forever. Is that completely unreasonable to say? Does he get a lifetime pass because he's John Elway, or does he have to be held accountable eventually?

Basic common sense. Elway is now on the hot seat, just like anybody else in the NFL. He doesn't have a lifetime appointment. He MUST make the right decisions this time, no more time for screw ups!

He has to pick the right coach. To fail there wastes another 2 years with Vance Joseph II.

He has to find a QB. This is the hardest thing. He's got the #10 pick of the draft in maybe the worst QB class in years. There easily could be ZERO long term franchise QBs in this draft.

Or equally likely, there could be someone taken in the second or third or 4th round, turns out to be good - like Dak Prescott. Problem with that - nobody can predict that - or else that QB would be taken in the top 1/2 of the first round, not the 2nd or later.

So, maybe he has to get lucky too.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Eh. He's not not worth it. But...this should be an exciting time.

He's not exciting.

He's...oatmeal.
What’s our best 2nd round pick in the last 5 years?

Harbaugh is worth it.

[Simple Jaded]

Harbaugh is easily worth a 2nd

There’s Sutton and a bunch of shit.

[Poet]

What’s our best 2nd round pick in the last 5 years?

Harbaugh is worth it.

Then what's the point of having a GM who makes second rounder worthless?

At the end of every question, lurking behind question is the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of Elway.

[Simple Jaded]

Then what's the point of having a GM who makes second rounder worthless?

At the end of every question, lurking behind question is the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of Elway.

His HC moves could be included in that and Harbaugh is a known commodity.

[Poet]

His HC moves could be included in that and Harbaugh is a known commodity.

An above average head coach who underachieves with who was then the best GM in the game?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Broncos' reported interest in John Harbaugh is 'completely false'

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/01/denver-broncos-news-john-harbaugh-not-being-considered/

[MOtorboat]

Broncos' reported interest in John Harbaugh is 'completely false'

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/01/denver-broncos-news-john-harbaugh-not-being-considered/

Read: They asked for too much...

[Freyaka]

Read: They asked for too much...

Or we're still negotiating and don't want to seem too eager.

[Cugel]

They're not going to wait. Things are moving fast now. Broncos have talked with ex-Packers coach Mike McCarthy (https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/01/denver-broncos-news-team-spoke-with-mike-mccarthy/)

Report: Broncos will interview Chuck Pagano for HC job (https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/31/denver-broncos-news-team-will-interview-chuck-pagano/)

The Denver Broncos will interview former Indianapolis Colts coach Chuck Pagano this week, according to a report from KUSA-TV’s Mike Klis.

Pagano, 58, coached in the NFL from 2001-2017. He spent six years as the head coach in Indianapolis, posting a 53-43 win-loss record.

Broncos request interview with Rams QBs coach Zac Taylor (https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/31/denver-broncos-news-los-angeles-rams-qb-coach-zac-taylor-interview/)

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

There’s Sutton and a bunch of shit.

I’d trade Sutton for Harbaugh faster than a fax machine transmission.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

An above average head coach who underachieves with who was then the best GM in the game?

Weren’t you the one bemoaning how bad his quarterback is?

[Poet]

McCarthy's fine except he, unlike the young guns, couldn't keep calling plays. That's a shitty part of him. He also gave it up because he was too conservative at the end of games.

I would be okay with the signing, but it's hard to get excited about that kind of coach.

Pagano sucked and was only successful because of Andrew Luck. His replacement, Arians, is ten times the coach he is.

Zac Taylor is intriguing. My only fear there is that they are trying to get an exact copy of McVey, whom Taylor worked with/under. Taylor did okay in Miami. He was well liked as a college coach. There's something a little lacking, but I'd take that over a loser like Pagano any day of the week.

[Poet]

Weren’t you the one bemoaning how bad his quarterback is?

He was constantly being fed get draft after great draft. He was not without, and hit a decent streak of missing the playoffs. I said above average. Sheesh, it's not like I said he was Brad Childress or Vance Joseph.

[nevcraw]

John Clayton is saying a 3rd, maybe a 2nd.

They’ll never get a 1st, much less two, 5 weeks ago they were going to get a divorce.

Sign me up for A 2nd for a winning coach who was strapped with lurch holding a hefty hefty price tag and then rebuilt the defense his way. Wink didn’t do,shit. We all remember OL wink here. That killer defense is harbuagh’s baby.

[Poet]

There is no god - we are getting shit.

[nevcraw]

He was constantly being fed get draft after great draft. He was not without, and hit a decent streak of missing the playoffs. I said above average. Sheesh, it's not like I said he was Brad Childress or Vance Joseph.

Flacco got paid and then shit the bed... and They never seem to have any good wr’s in bmore. Not sure all of Ozzy picks are gold.

[Shazam!]

They're not going to wait. Things are moving fast now. Broncos have talked with ex-Packers coach Mike McCarthy (https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/01/denver-broncos-news-team-spoke-with-mike-mccarthy/)

Report: Broncos will interview Chuck Pagano for HC job (https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/31/denver-broncos-news-team-will-interview-chuck-pagano/)

The Denver Broncos will interview former Indianapolis Colts coach Chuck Pagano this week, according to a report from KUSA-TV’s Mike Klis.

Pagano, 58, coached in the NFL from 2001-2017. He spent six years as the head coach in Indianapolis, posting a 53-43 win-loss record.

Broncos request interview with Rams QBs coach Zac Taylor (https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/31/denver-broncos-news-los-angeles-rams-qb-coach-zac-taylor-interview/)



Yeah Pagano will excite us all to death.

[BroncoWave]

The most notable thing pagano has ever done is have his team rally around him when he had cancer. Maybe he'll be one of those guys who learns from his first HC job and does better the second time around, but that would not be an exciting hire.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I think most of it depends on who brings in who for coordinators. The idea of Kubiak returning as a coach is not exciting, but if he’s bringing Wade back with him, then it does become exciting. Pagano in a vacuum isn’t an overly exciting hire, but if he brings in Taylor as OC and maybe Rex Ryan as DC, that could be an awesome formula.

It’s always more than just the HC unless it’s Belichick. I still wouldn’t go anywhere near McDouche. That shit he pulled on Indy last year just proved he hasn’t grown up at all. He’s still a sleazy little conniving POS.

I think Harbaugh would be great here depending on his choice of staff and is my #1 for HC, but I really don’t want to give up a draft pick(s) for him. That sours me on him.

[Freyaka]

From all I've read on twitter over the last week. This is my prediction (just speculation for the most part, just observations)

Kubiak will be the OC (this part isn't speculation. John Elway basically said this without directly saying it in his press conference, whoever we hire will have Kubiak forced upon him)

This means that whoever our next coach is, will have to mesh well with Kubiak and not feel that Kubiak overshadows his authority.

To me, that leaves Vic Fangio and Chuck Pagano (both defensively minded coaches) as the two front runners for the job.

It also does not rule Harbaugh out as a trade because they've already meshed well together in Baltimore and there is zero reason to doubt that they could work well together going forward. That said, the organization has fervently denied that we are interested in Harbaugh and calls the speculation surrounding him absolutely false.

[Freyaka]

The most notable thing pagano has ever done is have his team rally around him when he had cancer. Maybe he'll be one of those guys who learns from his first HC job and does better the second time around, but that would not be an exciting hire.

With the right staff around him, he will be a big step up from Vance. That is not however saying much.

[UnderArmour]

I don't particularly want Pagano. There was nothing about Pagano's time in Indianapolis that particularly stood out where I ever thought, "Wow, the Colts coaching staff sure is on top of things!" Outside of having Bruce Arians his first year, I was never impressed with the Colts coaching. Under Pagano, the coaching staff did a very poor job of developing talent(Jerry Hughes comes to mind) and allowed Andrew Luck to get killed by putting him in situations where he had to decide if he wanted to win the game (run), or protect his career. A QB should never be given that option by a coach, and protection should always be the top priority. Maybe you can say this wasn't Pagano's fault, but the game against Denver where Luck lacerated a kidney showed how irresponsible the Colts coaching staff was. What happened with Shanahan and RG3 was bad, but Andrew Luck could have died as a result of the negligence of the Colts coaching staff that day.

I don't want that kind of culture in Dove Valley. He allowed way too many things to get away from him, and after the first few years went right back to putting everything on the franchise QB. Sure, he had a few years where he went 8-8 with Luck in-and-out of the lineup, but it would still be a completely uninspiring hire. If we're going that route, Munchak would be better.

I'm rooting for Fangio or Flores.

Also, if the Ravens lose this week, it's entirely possible that Harbaugh can force his way out of Baltimore if that's what he desires. Ozzie is retiring, and DeCosta is taking over. The absolute last thing a new GM is going to want is to be stuck with a lame duck HC, who he may have to fire 4 games into the season. Rather than playing hardball and hurting any chance at hiring "his guy," the two sides would agree to just part ways. No way a GM tries to hold a coach like Harbaugh hostage.

[Freyaka]

I don't particularly want Pagano. There was nothing about Pagano's time in Indianapolis that particularly stood out where I ever thought, "Wow, the Colts coaching staff sure is on top of things!" Outside of having Bruce Arians his first year, I was never impressed with the Colts coaching. Under Pagano, the coaching staff did a very poor job of developing talent(Jerry Hughes comes to mind) and allowed Andrew Luck to get killed by putting him in situations where he had to decide if he wanted to win the game (run), or protect his career. A QB should never be given that option by a coach, and protection should always be the top priority. Maybe you can say this wasn't Pagano's fault, but the game against Denver where Luck lacerated a kidney showed how irresponsible the Colts coaching staff was. What happened with Shanahan and RG3 was bad, but Andrew Luck could have died as a result of the negligence of the Colts coaching staff that day.

I don't want that kind of culture in Dove Valley. He allowed way too many things to get away from him, and after the first few years went right back to putting everything on the franchise QB. Sure, he had a few years where he went 8-8 with Luck in-and-out of the lineup, but it would still be a completely uninspiring hire. If we're going that route, Munchak would be better.

I'm rooting for Fangio or Flores.

Also, if the Ravens lose this week, it's entirely possible that Harbaugh can force his way out of Baltimore if that's what he desires. Ozzie is retiring, and DeCosta is taking over. The absolute last thing a new GM is going to want is to be stuck with a lame duck HC, who he may have to fire 4 games into the season. Rather than playing hardball and hurting any chance at hiring "his guy," the two sides would agree to just part ways. No way a GM tries to hold a coach like Harbaugh hostage.

Flores is basically Vance Joseph....

A first year DC with no previous coordinator experience who coached a less than stellar defensive unit. I'd pass so hard on that I'd probably injure myself in the process.

Fangio is my top choice personally.

I don't want Pagano, but I actually expect him to be announced later today or tomorrow.

[UnderArmour]

Flores is basically Vance Joseph....

A first year DC with no previous coordinator experience who coached a less than stellar defensive unit. I'd pass so hard on that I'd probably injure myself in the process.

Fangio is my top choice personally.

I don't want Pagano, but I actually expect him to be announced later today or tomorrow.

Vance Joseph had no winning pedigree of any kind. Vance Joseph has no Super Bowl rings, nor will he ever have any unless he gets on as an equipment manager somewhere. It's not fair to put Flores in the same category as that loser. This team needs a coach that has a Super Bowl ring or some kind of winning background. I don't want another loser of a coach from a loser organization that celebrates being AFC Runner-up.

With Flores, yeah it would be a HUGE risk. But, there is a reason the guy is getting interviews. The reason coaches from the Patriots tree have failed has never been because of lack of football IQ or poor game day decisions; it's usually a failure because of arrogance, or in the case of Romeo Crennell, just being completely uninspiring. Flores reminds me more of Eric Mangini than of Vance Joseph.

[Northman]

I have no problems with Pagano but would prefer Harbaugh.

[Freyaka]

Vance Joseph had no winning pedigree of any kind. Vance Joseph has no Super Bowl rings, nor will he ever have any unless he gets on as an equipment manager somewhere. It's not fair to put Flores in the same category as that loser. This team needs a coach that has a Super Bowl ring or some kind of winning background. I don't want another loser of a coach from a loser organization that celebrates being AFC Runner-up.

With Flores, yeah it would be a HUGE risk. But, there is a reason the guy is getting interviews. The reason coaches from the Patriots tree have failed has never been because of lack of football IQ or poor game day decisions; it's usually a failure because of arrogance, or in the case of Romeo Crennell, just being completely uninspiring. Flores reminds me more of Eric Mangini than of Vance Joseph.

Flores can't really be credited with any Superbowl rings as a coordinator. He had nothing to do with those. He was a position coach at the time. It's a fair comparison, Flores and Joseph both had no experience as anything other than position coaches. Both took over as defensive coordinators and did poorly.

Both coaches took over terrible squads and didn't do much to improve them. Vance actually made his squad worse (from 25th ranked to 29th ranked) Flores went from 29th to 21st. (THOUGH, if you look at the Patriots second half of 2017, their defense was better than their 29th ranking implied)

Neither are deserving of head coach interests, yet somehow, despite being unworthy, they still garner interest. Flores would be more than a huge risk, he's an utter failure waiting to happen. He could be a HC some day (though very doubtful, the Billichick coaching tree is just the worst coaching tree ever...) but he's not ready and if a team hires him they will regret it.

The situations are extremely similar and comparison is fair.

[UnderArmour]

Flores can't really be credited with any Superbowl rings as a coordinator. He had nothing to do with those. He was a position coach at the time. It's a fair comparison, Flores and Joseph both had no experience as anything other than position coaches. Both took over as defensive coordinators and did poorly.

Both coaches took over terrible squads and didn't do much to improve them. Vance actually made his squad worse (from 25th ranked to 29th ranked) Flores went from 29th to 21st. (THOUGH, if you look at the Patriots second half of 2017, their defense was better than their 29th ranking implied)

Neither are deserving of head coach interests, yet somehow, despite being unworthy, they still garner interest. Flores would be more than a huge risk, he's an utter failure waiting to happen. He could be a HC some day (though very doubtful, the Billichick coaching tree is just the worst coaching tree ever...) but he's not ready and if a team hires him they will regret it.

The situations are extremely similar and comparison is fair.

Being part of a championship organization still means something. Pagano and Vance Joseph have never been part of a championship organization. Hell, they've never even been to a championship game. If the goal in Denver is to win Super Bowls, why the hell would Elway hire someone that's never even sniffed one, much less seen first hand what it takes?

It is -NOT- a fair comparison, and you should know that having watched VJ coach for a year. Nobody can possibly be as inept, clueless, and incompetent as VJ was on gamedays. If I'm Elway, I'm not letting the VJ mistake allow me to miss out on Flores if that's the guy that interviews well. Pagano is a loser who allowed Andrew Luck to get hurt, and whose only real accomplishments in Indianapolis were a few playoff wins under Andrew Luck's arm, and beating a Broncos team whose coordinators were checked out looking towards their next jobs.

[Freyaka]

Being part of a championship organization still means something. Pagano and Vance Joseph have never been part of a championship organization. Hell, they've never even been to a championship game. If the goal in Denver is to win Super Bowls, why the hell would Elway hire someone that's never even sniffed one, much less seen first hand what it takes?

It is -NOT- a fair comparison, and you should know that having watched VJ coach for a year. Nobody can possibly be as inept, clueless, and incompetent as VJ was on gamedays. If I'm Elway, I'm not letting the VJ mistake allow me to miss out on Flores if that's the guy that interviews well. Pagano is a loser who allowed Andrew Luck to get hurt, and whose only real accomplishments in Indianapolis were a few playoff wins under Andrew Luck's arm, and beating a Broncos team whose coordinators were checked out looking towards their next jobs.

Being a part of a championship teams does not make you a champion.... It's absolutely fair. You are only giving him the edge vs VJ because of "super bowl rings"

Would New England still have championships without Flores? Absolutely because he wasn't a contributing factor, he was along for the ride. Giving him edge over other candidates because he rode along on the coattails of more experienced coaches is a bad idea and it will do nothing more than keep us mired in mediocrity for 2019.

Not just no from me for Flores, but hell freaking no... HARD pass in all ways. He's VJ 2.0 waiting to happen.

[UnderArmour]

Being a part of a championship teams does not make you a champion....

Would New England still have championships without Flores? Absolutely because he wasn't a contributing factor, he was along for the ride. Giving him edge over other candidates because he rode along on the coattails of more experienced coaches is a bad idea and it will do nothing more than keep us mired in mediocrity for 2019.

There is literally NFL films clip of him substituting Malcolm Butler into the game right before the famous game-ending interception...

Every member of a championship organization matters. Do the Broncos win Super Bowl 50 without Bill Kollar on staff? Probably not.

I give him an edge over other candidates because this team has lacked wins the last two years. This team needs people that know how to win football games, because it has forgotten what that even feels like anymore.

[Elevation inc]

Yeah Pagano will excite us all to death.

Pagano is a John Fox type hire, give him a good OC, and it will bring some stability back.....lets not forget his GM during that time never addressed the defense or the OL, much like what happened to Fox in Carolina. Pagano isn't exciting but he is a safe pick with a good OC....

[Freyaka]

The thing I will say about Pagano. That front office is a MESS. I mean...freaking train wreck. That never helps a coach succeed. I think he's better than a lot of people give him credit for he was handcuffed in 2015 by the luck injury. His last two years as HC were kind of abysmal, but again, some of that comes back to how horrible their front office has been for awhile now. He did manage to lead them to 3 11-5 seasons and 3 division championships in a row. He's also won playoff games as a HC which is more than can be said about some of the other candidates.

All that said, he's not my ideal choice, but if it happens, I'm not going to be upset about it.

With Pagano as HC and Kubiak at OC, we'll be a playoff team in 2019.

[Freyaka]

Pagano is a John Fox type hire, give him a good OC, and it will bring some stability back.....lets not forget his GM during that time never addressed the defense or the OL, much like what happened to Fox in Carolina. Pagano isn't exciting but he is a safe pick with a good OC....

And that's exactly why I'm ok with it if it happens. Kubiak will be a good OC for him. Kubiak is what we need to coax the max out of Keenum for this year. Hopefully we'll find a QB in the draft and build for 2020. We need the stability of a Fox-like coach even if the thought of a coach like that is underwhelming.

We've gotta hit the reset button on this team's culture before we can get back to being a winning team and you do that with an established coach like Pagano.

[BroncoWave]

Signing another "safe" coach like Fox just kicks the can further down the road. So he stabilizes us, great, then 4 years from now when he maxes out his ability and we can't get out of the first round of the playoffs we're looking for another coach? Skip the middle man and get the next stud now.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Signing another "safe" coach like Fox just kicks the can further down the road. So he stabilizes us, great, then 4 years from now when he maxes out his ability and we can't get out of the first round of the playoffs we're looking for another coach? Skip the middle man and get the next stud now.

I don’t think Pagano is like Fox. I got the impression he expected more from his players.

[wayninja]

Signing another "safe" coach like Fox just kicks the can further down the road. So he stabilizes us, great, then 4 years from now when he maxes out his ability and we can't get out of the first round of the playoffs we're looking for another coach? Skip the middle man and get the next stud now.

And all this time I've been wasting my time with blackjack when I could just put it all on black!

[Tbolt]

Pagano is another coach with no idea how to make game day decisions. He's a terrible game manager. Arians out coached Pagano in Indy.

[Shazam!]

He is def an upgrade

Familiar like the Fox hire someone for football rehab for this team

But thwy need someone on offense unless they absolutely.intend to pair him with Kubiak THAT i like... Sort.of

[UnderArmour]

Pagano is another coach with no idea how to make game day decisions. He's a terrible game manager. Arians out coached Pagano in Indy.
Yep.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i7VKQwDS2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i7VKQwDS2s

[BigDaddyBronco]

Eh. He's not not worth it. But...this should be an exciting time.

He's not exciting.

He's...oatmeal.

He is a solid HC who makes good decisions, but his offenses have been pretty bad for a few years. Big thing is that the Ravens are always in contention for wining that division. That is where we need to be and where we were for years in the past. I would be ok with Harbaugh and Kubiak as OC, as long as they rebuilt the D to a championship quality D.

Let's see how the Ravens experiment does in the playoffs to see if other ways can win.

With Elway, he just needs to be held accountable. Period. This is his show, he doesn't get a pass. He has done great things, nut rebuilding a team is necessary for any NFL franchise when they lose a bunch of high level players due to retirement. He has to be able to do that, or he isn't the GM we need. One more 2-3 year "chance" and then he is either golden or gone.

[MOtorboat]

And suddenly I’m a lot less excited about Zac Taylor.

https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/1080536374858502144?s=21

[Poet]

I want kubiak to go away

[Davii]

And suddenly I’m a lot less excited about Zac Taylor.

https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/1080536374858502144?s=21

I was never excited about him in the first place. Why even give a guy with no coordinator experience an interview? Smacks of what many here want, hiring some young guy because, duh, "young and exciting" FTW!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Pagano is another coach with no idea how to make game day decisions. He's a terrible game manager. Arians out coached Pagano in Indy.
I’m not so sure. One could easily say Arians road the coat tails of a great roster in AZ and got out when he saw the roster was about to fall apart.

[MOtorboat]

I was never excited about him in the first place. Why even give a guy with no coordinator experience an interview? Smacks of what many here want, hiring some young guy because, duh, "young and exciting" FTW!

John Harbaugh has never been a coordinator.

[Poet]

Pagano owes his HC career to Luck...of the andrew variety

[TXBRONC]

I was never excited about him in the first place. Why even give a guy with no coordinator experience an interview? Smacks of what many here want, hiring some young guy because, duh, "young and exciting" FTW!

FWIW John Harbaugh was never a offensive or defensive coordinator before becoming the head coach of the Ravens.

[Davii]

John Harbaugh has never been a coordinator.

He was a special teams coach for what, 10 years or so?

I think that is closer to being a coordinator than a position coach.

I'm also not saying we need Harbaugh, but were I doing a search guys with no experience beyond a couple years as a position coach aren't on my list.

[Poet]

I was never excited about him in the first place. Why even give a guy with no coordinator experience an interview? Smacks of what many here want, hiring some young guy because, duh, "young and exciting" FTW!

Happy 89th birthday fam

[Freyaka]

I want kubiak to go away

Why? You throw a small amount of college concepts into Kubiaks offensive scheme and it is the exact same scheme as the Rams run.

People get FAAARRR to hung up on 2015/2016 when judging Kubiak. 2015 he was stuck with a gimpy corpse of Peyton Manning, 2016 he had Trevor Siemian...He actually got far more out of Trevor Siemian in 2016 than Trevor was capable of (as evidence by how terrible 2017 Trevor was)

Go look at that 2014 Ravens offense for me then get back to me on wanting Kubiak to go away.

Some coaches are best suited as coordinators. I think much like Wade, Kubiak is one of those.

[Davii]

Happy 89th birthday fam

No, wanting someone who has already proven their ability doesn't make me old and I don't appreciate the insinuation.

I'm not a fan of giving someone a shot at fixing something that was broken by the last idiot we gave that opportunity. We've gone with "young and exciting" twice recently and both ended in train wrecks.

A young guy might be the right choice, sure, but your chances of failure are MUCH higher in regards to proven commodities, or at least better proven than not at all.

[Poet]

Davii is not old. We don’t want just a random 30 year old.

Frey - I watched him in Houston and was never impressed. I watched his renaissance in Baltimore. That style is still played out. It’s not modern. It doesn’t have the combination calling of KC or the motion of LA. And considering how much pull he seems to have with Elway, I don’t want Kubiak to be apart of the team. It’s 2019 - no more Keenums. That’s kubiaks calling card. Bleh talented guys.

[Poet]

No, wanting someone who has already proven their ability doesn't make me old and I don't appreciate the insinuation.

I'm not a fan of giving someone a shot at fixing something that was broken by the last idiot we gave that opportunity. We've gone with "young and exciting" twice recently and both ended in train wrecks.

A young guy might be the right choice, sure, but your chances of failure are MUCH higher in regards to proven commodities, or at least better proven than not at all.

Im actually trying to goof around with you bro. Sorry

[Davii]

Davii old. We don’t want just a random 30 year old.

Frey - I watched him in Houston and was never impressed. I watched his renaissance in Baltimore. That style is still played out. It’s not modern. It doesn’t have the combination calling of KC or the motion of LA. And considering how much pull he seems to have with Elway, I don’t want Kubiak to be apart of the team. It’s 2019 - no more Keenums. That’s kubiaks calling card. Bleh talented guys.

Bullshit. Not in regards to Kubiak.

[UnderArmour]

Why? You throw a small amount of college concepts into Kubiaks offensive scheme and it is the exact same scheme as the Rams run.

People get FAAARRR to hung up on 2015/2016 when judging Kubiak. 2015 he was stuck with a gimpy corpse of Peyton Manning, 2016 he had Trevor Siemian...He actually got far more out of Trevor Siemian in 2016 than Trevor was capable of (as evidence by how terrible 2017 Trevor was)

Go look at that 2014 Ravens offense for me then get back to me on wanting Kubiak to go away.

Some coaches are best suited as coordinators. I think much like Wade, Kubiak is one of those.

Kubiak will be a fantastic coordinator for someone in this league again. The question for me is whether or not he organizationally can be brought back into that role without undermining the HC's authority. Right now, Kubiak answers directly to Elway and is really tight with Elway. What if Kubiak stinks it up? Would the next HC really be able to go to Elway and say, "I've decided to relieve Gary of his duties" and have that decision respected?

I also wouldn't want a coach to put Kubiak on their staff just to make Elway happy, I would want a coach to put Kubiak on their staff only if he was truly the most qualified for the job. With that said, I feel like he is and I hope the hire does make him offensive coordinator.

[Poet]

Bullshit. Not in regards to Kubiak.

Davii isn’t old. I decree it!

[Northman]

Well, Kubiak did win a SB while Andy Reid has not.... Just saying.. lol

[UnderArmour]

Well, Kubiak did win a SB while Andy Reid has not.... Just saying.. lol

Andy Reid has a ring from when he was an assistant coach with the Packers.

[Northman]

Andy Reid has a ring from when he was an assistant coach with the Packers.

But not as HC. That is what im getting at. Dont try to be sly with you bastige!

[TXBRONC]

Andy Reid has a ring from when he was an assistant coach with the Packers.

The point was Reid has never done it as head coach.

Also if you want add rings as an assistant coach then Kubiak has three.

[TXBRONC]

But not as HC. That is what im getting at. Dont try to be sly with you bastige!

Well if UA was trying to play the role of smart pants it was a fail. Kubiak has three rings as an assistant coach, one with San Francisco, and two with Broncos.

[Northman]

Well if UA was trying to play the role of smart pants it was a fail. Kubiak has three rings as an assistant coach, one with San Francisco, and two with Broncos.

I think he understood what i meant but was just being sarcastic.

[UnderArmour]

The point was Reid has never done it as head coach.

Also if you want add rings as an assistant coach then Kubiak has three.

I think rings as an assistant (or player) are something the Broncos should absolutely consider. After VJ, I don't want any more losers in charge of the team. The next coach should have at least been part of an AFC or NFC Championship team and gone to the Super Bowl, if nothing else.

I wasn't even sure what the comment chain was about or debating. I just wanted to note Reid does, in fact, have a ring.

[Valar Morghulis]

And all this time I've been wasting my time with blackjack when I could just put it all on black!

always bet on black

[Valar Morghulis]

I want a young innovator - but only if the right one is available. No point in signing young just for the sake og hiring young, or the hope of a McVey.

If that is not viable this year - i don't think anyone here wants us just to hire the youngest dude available.

Out of what we have been presented with - I like Fangio. He has never been a HC, so technically, he will be fresh! Best of both worlds.

I really like what i read about Flores though - he sounds hard nosed and bad ass.

I am so anti-pagano it is borderline King on Keebum levels, not too far off that with Munchak or McCarthy.

[Poet]

Kubiak will be a fantastic coordinator for someone in this league again. The question for me is whether or not he organizationally can be brought back into that role without undermining the HC's authority. Right now, Kubiak answers directly to Elway and is really tight with Elway. What if Kubiak stinks it up? Would the next HC really be able to go to Elway and say, "I've decided to relieve Gary of his duties" and have that decision respected?

I also wouldn't want a coach to put Kubiak on their staff just to make Elway happy, I would want a coach to put Kubiak on their staff only if he was truly the most qualified for the job. With that said, I feel like he is and I hope the hire does make him offensive coordinator.

No, no he won't. He did not do well in Denver his last stint. Moreover, while everyone wants to rave about his year in Baltimore, he was running the show in Houston when it got to the point that pick sixes ended the team's season..before it was halfway through the season. He got fired, no one wanted him or gave him any real consideration for HC. Baltimore took him on as an OC, and then he came back here.

You wanna know how the rest of the league sees him? Ever notice how you still hear rumors about long retired coaches coming back? Or a team trying to interest someone who has settled and is comfortable? When Kubiak was retired and just scouting, who was looking for him as a hire? No one. When he was OC in Baltimore, who was beating down the Kubiak door? No one. The only people who honestly think this guy is awesome, not just solid, in 2019 are...Denver fans.

I kept asking what his main contribution was during that SB run. It wasn't the defense. No one was marveling at how well prepared the offense was. It was the defense. On a loaded roster. What great coaching did this man ever do in Houston? His main accomplishment there was...beating the shit out of the Bengals in the first round of the playoffs. Fantastic.

He was, at times, a fine HC. He was at times, a fine OC. But he has never been excellent, at least in recent memory, and this notion that he's this great asset is based in lore and not in reality.

[UnderArmour]

No, no he won't. He did not do well in Denver his last stint. Moreover, while everyone wants to rave about his year in Baltimore, he was running the show in Houston when it got to the point that pick sixes ended the team's season..before it was halfway through the season. He got fired, no one wanted him or gave him any real consideration for HC. Baltimore took him on as an OC, and then he came back here.

You wanna know how the rest of the league sees him? Ever notice how you still hear rumors about long retired coaches coming back? Or a team trying to interest someone who has settled and is comfortable? When Kubiak was retired and just scouting, who was looking for him as a hire? No one. When he was OC in Baltimore, who was beating down the Kubiak door? No one. The only people who honestly think this guy is awesome, not just solid, in 2019 are...Denver fans.


Kubiak's last stint as OC in Denver resulted in Jake Plummer taking this team to the AFC Championship Game. Under Kubiak, the Broncos produced thousand yard rusher after thousand yard rusher. He was OC in Baltimore for one season, and became head coach the next season. During that year in Baltimore, Justin Forsett of all people, rushed for 1000 yards. Any coach that values a balanced attack would love to have Kubiak.

If Kubiak is such a bad coordinator/offensive mind, can you name 5 potential coordinators that would be available who would be better?

[Freyaka]

Davii is not old. We don’t want just a random 30 year old.

Frey - I watched him in Houston and was never impressed. I watched his renaissance in Baltimore. That style is still played out. It’s not modern. It doesn’t have the combination calling of KC or the motion of LA. And considering how much pull he seems to have with Elway, I don’t want Kubiak to be apart of the team. It’s 2019 - no more Keenums. That’s kubiaks calling card. Bleh talented guys.

Tell that to Kyle Shannahan and Sean McVay.

Both run BASICALLY the same offense with a few college concepts thrown in.

[Poet]

Frey - there are similarities, but the way they call and approach the game is night and day within the system. One is a fresher approach. The other is Kubiak. Both love the ZBS scheme. https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2018/7/3/17531258/2018-los-angeles-rams-nfl-todd-gurley-sean-mcvay-andrew-whitworth-rodger-saffold Granted this article is much in tune with the Shanahan comparisons, which is fine.

Regarding Rams offense and Kubiak - they both for instance, like ZBS. However, McVey employs Whitworth, one of the larger LT's in the league. My point? Is that Kubiak often favored the much smaller offensive lineman because as Jaded put it, that's what he was convinced he needed for the offensive line.

The Rams offense, also tends to just stick with 11 personnel. Kubiak had much more personnel changing. Moreover, the way the game is called, McVey looks to run the ball more, whereas Kubiak, in 21 years, only ran more than passed 6 times. This counts his time as HC and OC. https://www.milehighreport.com/2016/6/2/11827692/the-kubiak-offense Regarding running the ball, Gurley, after missing two weeks, is still in the top five in rushing attempts. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/rushing-plays Yet, in that same manner, McVey calls a game in a manner where Gurley isn't running into stacked boxes.

According to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, Todd Gurley has rushed against eight or more defenders in the box on just 16 percent of his carries so far this season. That means he carried the ball just 10 times against a loaded box. According to the site, 37 other running backs in the league have seen a higher percentage of their carries against eight or more defenders in the box. https://www.profootballweekly.com/2018/09/26/logic-simplicity-make-los-angeles-rams-sean-mcvay-nfls-brightest-offensive-mind/amzolzk/

I have watched the vaunted Kubiak offense with my own eyes. Sure, there might be scheme similarities, but Kubiak doesn't call games like that anymore.

I'm a shot poster. He's a shot offensive coordinator.

Now, to be fair to Kubiak, he gave up playcalling duties in Denver. But let's be honest, if that's really what is supposed to make him special, he gave up tht asset. Moreover, he never really found anyone in Denver who did a good job of that...even though Kubiak had his handpicked QB in there in TS. That's after forcing Manning to go to his system, just a year prior.

Kubiak lives on reputation alone.

[nevcraw]

I posted It another thread but the report in November by Albert Breer claiming Elway was super enamored / studying the college stuff run in places like KC. who do you think is working on this - it’s def Kubiak. Believing this makes me open to kubes return as OC.

[Poet]

I posted It another thread but the report in November by Albert Breer claiming Elway was super enamored / studying the college stuff run in places like KC. who do you think is working on this - it’s def Kubiak. Believing this makes me open to kubes return as OC.

If Kubiak was to finally try to update his style, I would be open to this. But I am skeptical because he's basically just a friendly grandpa.

[Hawgdriver]

And suddenly I’m a lot less excited about Zac Taylor.


You just don't understand the allure of inbreeding MO. It's rather naughty.

[nevcraw]

Frey - there are similarities, but the way they call and approach the game is night and day within the system. One is a fresher approach. The other is Kubiak. Both love the ZBS scheme. https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2018/7/3/17531258/2018-los-angeles-rams-nfl-todd-gurley-sean-mcvay-andrew-whitworth-rodger-saffold Granted this article is much in tune with the Shanahan comparisons, which is fine.

Regarding Rams offense and Kubiak - they both for instance, like ZBS. However, McVey employs Whitworth, one of the larger LT's in the league. My point? Is that Kubiak often favored the much smaller offensive lineman because as Jaded put it, that's what he was convinced he needed for the offensive line.

The Rams offense, also tends to just stick with 11 personnel. Kubiak had much more personnel changing. Moreover, the way the game is called, McVey looks to run the ball more, whereas Kubiak, in 21 years, only ran more than passed 6 times. This counts his time as HC and OC. https://www.milehighreport.com/2016/6/2/11827692/the-kubiak-offense Regarding running the ball, Gurley, after missing two weeks, is still in the top five in rushing attempts. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/rushing-plays Yet, in that same manner, McVey calls a game in a manner where Gurley isn't running into stacked boxes.

According to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, Todd Gurley has rushed against eight or more defenders in the box on just 16 percent of his carries so far this season. That means he carried the ball just 10 times against a loaded box. According to the site, 37 other running backs in the league have seen a higher percentage of their carries against eight or more defenders in the box. https://www.profootballweekly.com/2018/09/26/logic-simplicity-make-los-angeles-rams-sean-mcvay-nfls-brightest-offensive-mind/amzolzk/

I have watched the vaunted Kubiak offense with my own eyes. Sure, there might be scheme similarities, but Kubiak doesn't call games like that anymore.

I'm a shot poster. He's a shot offensive coordinator.

Now, to be fair to Kubiak, he gave up playcalling duties in Denver. But let's be honest, if that's really what is supposed to make him special, he gave up tht asset. Moreover, he never really found anyone in Denver who did a good job of that...even though Kubiak had his handpicked QB in there in TS. That's after forcing Manning to go to his system, just a year prior.

Kubiak lives on reputation alone.

Compelling argument King! And saying you are right what guy as OC that is available and would want to come here would you take.

[Elevation inc]

Davii is not old. We don’t want just a random 30 year old.

Frey - I watched him in Houston and was never impressed. I watched his renaissance in Baltimore. That style is still played out. It’s not modern. It doesn’t have the combination calling of KC or the motion of LA. And considering how much pull he seems to have with Elway, I don’t want Kubiak to be apart of the team. It’s 2019 - no more Keenums. That’s kubiaks calling card. Bleh talented guys.


He is a safety net, bottom line we got bit with VJ and are looking at a John fox safety hire. That's good for some playoffs, maybe a championship and maybe even a SB appearance if our defense returns to form. I will take it over what's happened the last few years....

[Poet]

Lets not forget what Kubiak helped get out of OZ in 2015 to even allow us to the SB. The coaching job he did that year with Wade was masterful. We could use some of that safety net again.....Maybe it will only take us to the wildcard next year but at least for the first time in 4 years we will be in the playoffs.....

He got average QB play.

Reputations, man. Reputations.

[Elevation inc]

He got average QB play.

Reputations, man. Reputations.


I get your concerns I just understand why he is in play....

[Poet]

You just don't understand the allure of inbreeding MO. It's rather naughty.

:shocked:

[Poet]

I get your concerns I just understand why he is in play....

:salute:

[MOtorboat]

You just don't understand the allure of inbreeding MO. It's rather naughty.

I’m sure the Romanovs agree.

[Freyaka]

And suddenly I’m a lot less excited about Zac Taylor.

https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/1080536374858502144?s=21

Alright, so lets look deeper here. Klis is saying that Taylor will work well with Kubiak because there is familiarity (and really friendship) there.

Taylor is from that "young, smart, up and coming" offense McVay runs (which as I've pointed out, is essentially the same offense Kubiak runs with some college innovation mixed in)

Hypothetically, say we do grab Taylor. It's not out of the realm of possibility to imagine that he brings with him that college innovation from the Rams and infuses it into Kubiak's system.

How do you feel about Kubiak/Taylor if that were to happen King?

[Poet]

I would focus on the positive, Frey. But it would feel that we have a puppet HC for OC Kubiak Sr.

[Dapper Dan]

I would focus on the positive, Frey. But it would feel that we have a puppet HC for OC Kubiak Sr.

I'm not a puppet! You're a puppet!

[Davii]

On record: Short of hiring Harbaugh, I don't want nor do I think Kubiak will be our OC.

I want a proven commodity at HC paired with the young/exciting guys at coordinator.

A HC should not, IMO, be the guy calling plays. That should be the coordinators. Put the innovation at the levels where it will have the most impact.

By "proven commodity" I don't necessarily mean retread HC. I would be fine with someone who has shown potential in a coordinator role. I don't want someone who has never been a coordinator or coach anywhere above the level of a position coach.

[Poet]

On record: Short of hiring Harbaugh, I don't want nor do I think Kubiak will be our OC.

I want a proven commodity at HC paired with the young/exciting guys at coordinator.

A HC should not, IMO, be the guy calling plays. That should be the coordinators. Put the innovation at the levels where it will have the most impact.

By "proven commodity" I don't necessarily mean retread HC. I would be fine with someone who has shown potential in a coordinator role. I don't want someone who has never been a coordinator or coach anywhere above the level of a position coach.

Reid has called the plays on and off again in his career. McVey is doing that now. I like a brilliant HC doing that. G Money described it as a HC's greatest asset at times, and I agree with it. IDK. I appreciate your point becaue guys like Reid have had to turn it over in the past. But, Reid turned it over to Nagy and Pederson. Both of which were great at it, and are doing great now.

[Cugel]

I’m sure the Romanovs agree.

More the Hapsburgs than the Romanovs, but the point remains valid.

[Davii]

Reid has called the plays on and off again in his career. McVey is doing that now. I like a brilliant HC doing that. G Money described it as a HC's greatest asset at times, and I agree with it. IDK. I appreciate your point becaue guys like Reid have had to turn it over in the past. But, Reid turned it over to Nagy and Pederson. Both of which were great at it, and are doing great now.

Good for them, I'm sure I can find an example of a coach doing anything somewhere, maybe Lynn likes to call plays while biting his lip. Not even BB calls the plays. So, how many HC's that call their own plays have won SB's?

[Poet]

Good for them, I'm sure I can find an example of a coach doing anything somewhere, maybe Lynn likes to call plays while biting his lip. Not even BB calls the plays. So, how many HC's that call their own plays have won SB's?

I'm not sure. I'm just saying it's had it's fair share of success.

This article says Sean Payton won his SB calling the plays. http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/42047/calling-the-shots-why-some-nfl-head-coaches-refuse-to-give-up-playcalling-duties

He gave it up twice, once when suspended and another time when he broke his leg.

It points out that McCarthy was at his most success calling plays. He won a SB doing that but gave up calling the plays later on.

Those are two recent examples, Davii.

[Poet]

I'm not sure. I'm just saying it's had it's fair share of success.

This article says Sean Payton won his SB calling the plays. http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/42047/calling-the-shots-why-some-nfl-head-coaches-refuse-to-give-up-playcalling-duties

He gave it up twice, once when suspended and another time when he broke his leg.

It points out that McCarthy was at his most success calling plays. He won a SB doing that but gave up calling the plays later on.

Those are two recent examples, Davii.

I know some coaches will call some specific plays, like on fourth down. I wonder how many teams are just cut and dry, one approach or another with nothing in between?

[Tangerine]

I think rings as an assistant (or player) are something the Broncos should absolutely consider. After VJ, I don't want any more losers in charge of the team. The next coach should have at least been part of an AFC or NFC Championship team and gone to the Super Bowl, if nothing else.

I wasn't even sure what the comment chain was about or debating. I just wanted to note Reid does, in fact, have a ring.

When Elway hired Kubiak, he said he wanted somebody who's won a Super Bowl previously, point being that Fox really never won anything in his career, and he wanted somebody who knew what it felt like to win.

Fast forward to VJ, who, looking over his career, has never even been part of a team that's made it past the divisional round of the playoffs. To avoid the last mistake, Elway needs to find somebody who knows how to win, not somebody like VJ who's only been on losing teams.

[Poet]

When Elway hired Kubiak, he said he wanted somebody who's won a Super Bowl previously, point being that Fox really never won anything in his career, and he wanted somebody who knew what it felt like to win.

Fast forward to VJ, who, looking over his career, has never even been part of a team that's made it past the divisional round of the playoffs. To avoid the last mistake, Elway needs to find somebody who knows how to win, not somebody like VJ who's only been on losing teams.

Or just find a talented coach who can do it. There's no magical resume line that makes someone a god.

VJ sucked. But to write off a talented person because the teams they were on weren't great means nothing. Kubiak didn't win a SB here because he was a great coach. He had someone else's roster. He was just present.

[Davii]

I'm not sure. I'm just saying it's had it's fair share of success.

This article says Sean Payton won his SB calling the plays. http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/42047/calling-the-shots-why-some-nfl-head-coaches-refuse-to-give-up-playcalling-duties

He gave it up twice, once when suspended and another time when he broke his leg.

It points out that McCarthy was at his most success calling plays. He won a SB doing that but gave up calling the plays later on.

Those are two recent examples, Davii.

Point being, many more have won that don't do so.

The HC, IMO, needs to have a wider lens and not be so concerned about individual play calls.

[Poet]

Point being, many more have won that don't do so.

The HC, IMO, needs to have a wider lens and not be so concerned about individual play calls.

I think a lot of HCs might not have the talent to do this. If the guy is good enough to do it, go for it. If he needs a break, a break it is. I don't think a static rule governs.

[Davii]

I think a lot of HCs might not have the talent to do this. If the guy is good enough to do it, go for it. If he needs a break, a break it is. I don't think a static rule governs.

I disagree. Those who can be successful at it are few and far between IMO, and why on earth would you want a first time HC never been coordinator to also take that additional responsibility?

Makes no sense. "Hey, we know you haven't even proven the ability to be a coordinator OR a head coach, so why don't you go ahead and do BOTH!"

I mean, hell, let's give him GM power! What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Poet]

I disagree. Those who can be successful at it are few and far between IMO, and why on earth would you want a first time HC never been coordinator to also take that additional responsibility?

Makes no sense. "Hey, we know you haven't even proven the ability to be a coordinator OR a head coach, so why don't you go ahead and do BOTH!"

I mean, hell, let's give him GM power! What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

If you can do it, you can do it. I think GM power is a far cry from calling the plays. One is football coaching and the other is personnel.

If it's too much, then stop. If he can't do it, then stop.

[Davii]

If you can do it, you can do it. I think GM power is a far cry from calling the plays. One is football coaching and the other is personnel.

If it's too much, then stop. If he can't do it, then stop.

It's not that easy.

[Poet]

It's not that easy.

Good talk. :D

[dogfish]

So, how many HC's that call their own plays have won SB's?

mike shanahan, gary kubiak, sean payton, doug pederson, mike mccarthy. . . not sure about gruden or billick. . . it's a perfectly effective strategy IF your guy knows what he's doing, and is a capable coach to begin with. . .

[Poet]

mike shanahan, gary kubiak, sean payton, doug pederson, mike mccarthy. . . not sure about gruden or billick. . . it's a perfectly effective strategy IF your guy knows what he's doing, and is a capable coach to begin with. . .

I knew I was forgetting someone more recent in Pederson!

[Davii]

mike shanahan, gary kubiak, sean payton, doug pederson, mike mccarthy. . . not sure about gruden or billick. . . it's a perfectly effective strategy IF your guy knows what he's doing, and is a capable coach to begin with. . .

Ahhh, IF he knows what he's doing, IF he's a capable coach to begin with, IF....

So, given the gravity of it all, would you suggest a first time HC who hasn't even been a coordinator anywhere, be handed the HC duties along with play calling duties?

I know King thinks changing back is so easy you could make a geico commercial out of it, but you won't be able to hire a top flight coordinator on that side of the ball as they're not coming somewhere they don't get to call plays.

So now we have a young inexperienced HC with at least one young inexperienced coordinator.

Doesn't sound like a blueprint to success to me. It sounds like McD/VJ #3.

Also, did Kubiak call the plays for the SB victory?

[Poet]

Ahhh, IF he knows what he's doing, IF he's a capable coach to begin with, IF....

So, given the gravity of it all, would you suggest a first time HC who hasn't even been a coordinator anywhere, be handed the HC duties along with play calling duties?

I know King thinks changing back is so easy you could make a geico commercial out of it, but you won't be able to hire a top flight coordinator on that side of the ball as they're not coming somewhere they don't get to call plays.

So now we have a young inexperienced HC with at least one young inexperienced coordinator.

Doesn't sound like a blueprint to success to me. It sounds like McD/VJ #3.

You can either do it or you can't. Those coaches all started out doing it. Of course there's an assumption the coach is good. IF not why are you hiring him?

[Davii]

You can either do it or you can't. Those coaches all started out doing it. Of course there's an assumption the coach is good. IF not why are you hiring him?

And you're basing that assumption off what?

A QB coach that never called plays or even had to put together a gameplan for one side of the ball left alone have their hands in both?

[Poet]

And you're basing that assumption off what?

A QB coach that never called plays or even had to put together a gameplan for one side of the ball left alone have their hands in both?

It's not an assumption. If you're a smart person and know the game, you will either be able to do it, or you can't because you don't have that skill either honed in enough, or possess it at all.

You're essentially arguing "oh, so you have to know what you're dong." Well, yes sir. The good ones do. And it's also possible the new guy comes in and doesn't do it before he, after X amount of time, does make that transition. An example of that is Payton during his time as OC with the Giants. For some time he struggled and Fassel took over. Then Payton later on was a QB coach in Dallas and then he wound up New Orleans. Where he gave up playing calling twice as pointed out. But, as an OC he also did well at times in New York calling the plays.

One way to offset this is for him to hire an OC that can help him out. So maybe he doesn't call plays right off, or does. And if he does maybe it's okay, or it isn't.

You're acting like it's automatically clear cut. I don't think it is either way.

[dogfish]

Ahhh, IF he knows what he's doing, IF he's a capable coach to begin with, IF....

So, given the gravity of it all, would you suggest a first time HC who hasn't even been a coordinator anywhere, be handed the HC duties along with play calling duties?

I know King thinks changing back is so easy you could make a geico commercial out of it, but you won't be able to hire a top flight coordinator on that side of the ball as they're not coming somewhere they don't get to call plays.

So now we have a young inexperienced HC with at least one young inexperienced coordinator.

Doesn't sound like a blueprint to success to me. It sounds like McD/VJ #3.

it all depends on what the other options are. . . i was dead-set against VJ. . . MY personal preference, which of course matters not at all, would be to get a creative offensive mind, support him with strong coordinators, and let him do his thing. . . if that means calling plays, then sure-- go for it. . . it's working great in LA, philly and chicago. . . i'd be super cool with a lafleur/taylor or beinemy/de filipo pairing. . . bottom line, the innovative offensive guys are in extremely high demand right now, and that's not by accident. . . the idea of hiring a "leader of men" type who just oversees everything, and delegates most playcalling duties to his coordinators is fine as far as it goes-- the problem is that all the promising OCs get snapped up to be head coaches, which means there just aren't many true quality options at OC who have much experience. . . you either roll the dice on a raw prospect, or you settle for norv turner, scott linehan, or mike mularkey. . .

end of the day, all three of our super bowl wins have come under a HC who called his own plays on offense, and the coaches who i like best around the league right now are guys who call their own plays, so it is an arrangement that i'm comfortable with. . . i really wanted us to replace vance with frank reich-- it still pisses me off that mcdouchenugget robbed us of the chance. . . i don't like any of the available options as much as i liked him, but now is when we need a coach. . . ultimately, i think you're going to get your way on this one-- a more experienced HC, with either gary as his OC, or another journeyman in the same mold as musgrave. . . it's a roll of the dice either way. . .

[Simple Jaded]

I’m glad we can all agree that Kubiak is a Super Bowl Champion and masterful HC.

[Poet]

I’m glad we can all agree that Kubiak is a Super Bowl Champion and masterful HC.

No one sans some fanboys thinks that.

[Hawgdriver]

it's working great in LA, philly and chicago

You think there is a certain quality of a coach that lends to greater playoff success?

[Davii]

It's not an assumption. If you're a smart person and know the game, you will either be able to do it, or you can't because you don't have that skill either honed in enough, or possess it at all.

You're essentially arguing "oh, so you have to know what you're dong." Well, yes sir. The good ones do. And it's also possible the new guy comes in and doesn't do it before he, after X amount of time, does make that transition. An example of that is Payton during his time as OC with the Giants. For some time he struggled and Fassel took over. Then Payton later on was a QB coach in Dallas and then he wound up New Orleans. Where he gave up playing calling twice as pointed out. But, as an OC he also did well at times in New York calling the plays.

One way to offset this is for him to hire an OC that can help him out. So maybe he doesn't call plays right off, or does. And if he does maybe it's okay, or it isn't.

You're acting like it's automatically clear cut. I don't think it is either way.

Yet you're acting as though it is the other way. I'm not saying it's clear cut that someone can't, I'm saying you better have a proven ability as a coordinator before I make that assumption. Not a QB coach with no coordinator experience.

You're using coordinator experience in your argument yet arguing against me making that MY requirement

[Hawgdriver]

I don't even know what you guys are arguing about. Sometimes we just want to argue.

[Poet]

Yet you're acting as though it is the other way. I'm not saying it's clear cut that someone can't, I'm saying you better have a proven ability as a coordinator before I make that assumption. Not a QB coach with no coordinator experience.

You're using coordinator experience in your argument yet arguing against me making that MY requirement

No. I'm not doing that. I'm literally saying it's a possibility and hey, it'd be great to go get that go. My entire point was that you're doing what I'm saying.

Why do you asume the new guy can't do it? You've made a lot of assumptions on what I want.


Not just today, but in other days on other posts.

I'm certain we're just talking past one another.

If we hire a young gun, I'm going to assume he's good, or will be good. Play calling can be and often is an asset, and i'm willing to give him the benefit of the odubt and let him learn if he can do it, can't do it, or needs time to get up to snuff.

What else would I do? If we hire a young guy and think he sucks, why did we hire him? Much like if we hire a older guy, and we think he sucks, why did we hire him? Much like assuming I'm wrong for wanting a young coach is the same as assuming you're wrong for wanting an older coach. I don't just want someone because they're young, but you keep representing him as if I do. If there are four young coaches, but they're stupid as ****, and one veteran who is dope, I'll take the dope guy. But I do see the value in someone young and you don't, and that is where you are wrong.

Assuming I would want someone young and bad because they're young is like assuming you want Brad Childress, even though everyone knows he sucks because he's a veteran HC.

[Davii]

it all depends on what the other options are. . . i was dead-set against VJ. . . MY personal preference, which of course matters not at all, would be to get a creative offensive mind, support him with strong coordinators, and let him do his thing. . . if that means calling plays, then sure-- go for it. . . it's working great in LA, philly and chicago. . . i'd be super cool with a lafleur/taylor or beinemy/de filipo pairing. . . bottom line, the innovative offensive guys are in extremely high demand right now, and that's not by accident. . . the idea of hiring a "leader of men" type who just oversees everything, and delegates most playcalling duties to his coordinators is fine as far as it goes-- the problem is that all the promising OCs get snapped up to be head coaches, which means there just aren't many true quality options at OC who have much experience. . . you either roll the dice on a raw prospect, or you settle for norv turner or mike mularkey. . .

end of the day, all three of our super bowl wins have come under a HC who called his own plays on offense, and the coaches who i like best around the league right now are guys who call their own plays, so it is an arrangement that i'm comfortable with. . . i really wanted us to replace vance with frank reich-- it still pisses me off that mcdouchenugget robbed us of the chance. . . i don't like any of the available options as much as i liked him, but now is when we need a coach. . . ultimately, i think you're going to get your way on this one-- a more experienced HC, with either gary as his OC, or another journeyman in the same mold as musgrave. . . it's a roll of the dice either way. . .

Gary as his HC would not be my preference, and as I've said, a retread wouldn't be first choice either. I want someone who has at least been a coordinator matched with the "inventive" OC.

I don't want Kubiak coaching our offense unless he's somehow completely reinvented himself.

[Poet]

Gary as his HC would not be my preference, and as I've said, a retread wouldn't be first choice either. I want someone who has at least been a coordinator matched with the "inventive" OC.

I don't want Kubiak coaching our offense unless he's somehow completely reinvented himself.

Anyone you got in mind?

Zac Taylor was someone I liked...until I saw that damned Kubiak Konnection.

[Davii]

No. I'm not doing that. I'm literally saying it's a possibility and hey, it'd be great to go get that go. My entire point was that you're doing what I'm saying.

Why do you asume the new guy can't do it? You've made a lot of assumptions on what I want.


Not just today, but in other days on other posts.

I'm certain we're just talking past one another.

If we hire a young gun, I'm going to assume he's good, or will be good. Play calling can be and often is an asset, and i'm willing to give him the benefit of the odubt and let him learn if he can do it, can't do it, or needs time to get up to snuff.

What else would I do? If we hire a young guy and think he sucks, why did we hire him? Much like if we hire a older guy, and we think he sucks, why did we hire him? Much like assuming I'm wrong for wanting a young coach is the same as assuming you're wrong for wanting an older coach. I don't just want someone because they're young, but you keep representing him as if I do. If there are four young coaches, but they're stupid as ****, and one veteran who is dope, I'll take the dope guy. But I do see the value in someone young and you don't, and that is where you are wrong.

Assuming I would want someone young and bad because they're young is like assuming you want Brad Childress, even though everyone knows he sucks because he's a veteran HC.

I'm willing to give Elway the benefit of the doubt no matter the choice. You won't hear a word of anything but support unless and until they show I shouldn't give them that.

[dogfish]

You think there is a certain quality of a coach that lends to greater playoff success?

yep. . . mostly, the kind who gets to coach jordan, then has shaq and kobe in his second stop. . . :heh:

so in other words, maybe not necessarily. . . there are always multiple routes to success. . . but, in terms of a template, i feel that the more dynamic, aggressive guys are the ones who have the greatest potential to consistently contend-- and win-- at the highest levels. . . belichick has always gone for it when he wanted to, even before analytics. . . parcells may be synonymous with conservative to youngsters 'cuz of his crusty image, but look up the times he went for it on 4th down in the playoffs. . .

sean payton with the onside kick in the super bowl. . . large brass ones, and now a big fat ring to show for it. . . early years mike shanahan vs. dan reeves. . . or my guy doug pederson, playing with ultimate stones, and slaying the giant on the world stage. . . throw it to the QB on 4th down, eff you! i love it. . . give me a shot at getting that guy over the safe pick any day. . .



Gary as his HC would not be my preference, and as I've said, a retread wouldn't be first choice either. I want someone who has at least been a coordinator matched with the "inventive" OC.

I don't want Kubiak coaching our offense unless he's somehow completely reinvented himself.

so, out of our candidates, fangio is the one who fits this the most closely?


i love me some kubes, but i want him to stay in the front office. . . it feels weird, forced, and inbred to have him as OC for anyone besides a shanahan, harbaugh, anyone who's worked with him before. . .

[Davii]

yep. . . mostly, the kind who gets to coach jordan, then has shaq and kobe in his second stop. . . :heh:

so in other words, maybe not necessarily. . . there are always multiple routes to success. . . but, in terms of a template, i feel that the more dynamic, aggressive guys are the ones who have the greatest potential to consistently contend-- and win-- at the highest levels. . . belichick has always gone for it when he wanted to, even before analytics. . . parcells may be synonymous with conservative to youngsters 'cuz of his crusty image, but look up the times he went for it on 4th down in the playoffs. . .

sean payton with the onside kick in the super bowl. . . large brass ones, and now a big fat ring to show for it. . . early years mike shanahan vs. dan reeves. . . or my guy doug pederson, playing with ultimate stones, and slaying the giant on the world stage. . . throw it to the QB on 4th down, eff you! i love it. . . give me a shot at getting that guy over the safe pick any day. . .




so, out of our candidates, fangio is the one who fits this the most closely?


i love me some kubes, but i want him to stay in the front office. . . it feels weird, forced, and inbred to have him as OC for anyone besides a shanahan, harbaugh, anyone who's worked with him before. . .

Of the names I've seen, yes, Fangio would be my front runner going into the interview. Once they're in the room though whoever wins the interview process wins.

I think that was the fault last time, we went into it already mostly decided.

[Hawgdriver]

. . . belichick has always gone for it when he wanted to, even before analytics. . .

You think Ernie A has had a lot to do with BB's dynasty? I do. But there's not much info that's available to the public.

[Davii]

You think Ernie A has had a lot to do with BB's dynasty? I do. But there's not much info that's available to the public.

Was Ernie the inventor of the camcorder?

[dogfish]

You think Ernie A has had a lot to do with BB's dynasty? I do. But there's not much info that's available to the public.

i got nothin' on that one, homeslice. . . tell me why?

[Hawgdriver]

i got nothin' on that one, homeslice. . . tell me why?

I don't want to assume anything, so here's context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Adams_(American_football)

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/football-researcher-ernie-adams-biggest-190100700--nfl.html

Dude has BB's ear and provides high-quality, actionable insight that leads to greater expected points during contests. Really it's just a brainiac who can solve problems. I want those in the org.

[dogfish]

Of the names I've seen, yes, Fangio would be my front runner going into the interview. Once they're in the room though whoever wins the interview process wins.

I think that was the fault last time, we went into it already mostly decided.

yea. . . i think the latter is true, for sure. . . and it led to what was, IMO, very likely the worst possible decision. . . people can think what they want about elliss, and i'm not saying they're wrong. . . however, he wasn't wrong, either, when he said they needed to have a real and thorough coaching search this time. . .

i will say that i like fangio better than the likes of munchak and pagano. . . i would be willing to bet that mike zimmer is his ceiling, though. . . good coach, but he hasn't won it all, despite some damn solid rosters. . . he's tinkered with OCs and QBs, and hasn't been able to find a winning combination at either. . . for a team that has far deeper issues on offense than on defense, i have grave concerns not only whether we would be able to find the right coordinator, but how long we'd be able to keep him even if we did. . . quality OCs are getting snapped up like nobody's business. . . it's why i'm even willing to entertain the notion of a guy with bienemy's or lafleur's experience level as a HC. . .

we have a crying need to establish an identity on offense. . . we already have one on defense-- press man, one-gap 3-4 base, that's currently built around von and chubb. . . what we need on defense is easy-- rebuild the secondary, hire a competent DC. . . what we need on offense is a significant, ground-up rebuild. . . we got the skill positions, more or less. . . that's like the driveway, the garage, and the porch. . . we need somebody who can come in and set a new foundation, and i just don't feel great about assigning that critical task to an underling who can-- and quite likely, will-- be hired away at a competitor's discretion. . .

not sure where you're at on this one, but as far as i'm concerned we need to go back to the draft at some point in the near future for a QB. . . which is why i honestly almost prefer a HC who also brings his own offensive scheme and playbook with him, whether or not he actually calls plays on game day. . . when those things come from the HC, you don't change everything when your hotshot OC gets hired away. . . and that's what gives you what elway recently referenced-- continuity on offense, which is what you need for a young QB to develop at n optimal pace. . . some of this is about where i think the league as a whole is headed, and some of it is about where i think the broncos themselves are right now as an organization. . . there's also the dynamic of how quickly you can get a rookie QB ready to win at a high level, to maximize your window while he's on his rookie contract. . . particularly when you have foundational pieces like miller, harris, chubb already in place on defense. . .


:defense:

[Cugel]

not sure where you're at on this one, but as far as i'm concerned we need to go back to the draft at some point in the near future for a QB.

They will surely try and draft a QB this year, but they are picking 10th and this is the worst QB class in many years - supposedly. So, they might not find one. That's how they wound up with Paxton after all. Desperately needing a QB when there just wasn't one available.

They could have waited until the 3rd round and drafted Dak Prescott, but nobody predicted that he would be any good. And who knows how good he would be with Denver's OL and without Elliot. Probably not great.

[TXBRONC]

They will surely try and draft a QB this year, but they are picking 10th and this is the worst QB class in many years - supposedly. So, they might not find one. That's how they wound up with Paxton after all. Desperately needing a QB when there just wasn't one available.

They could have waited until the 3rd round and drafted Dak Prescott, but nobody predicted that he would be any good. And who knows how good he would be with Denver's OL and without Elliot. Probably not great.

When Lynch and Prescott came out their draft their qb draft class was considered the worst in years now it's this one? The "this worst draft class" gets use just about every other year. IDK maybe this draft class will be worse but then again they might better. Hindsight is always 20/10.

[Simple Jaded]

No one sans some fanboys thinks that.

:coffee:

[Poet]

:coffee:

You!

[Freyaka]

You!

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/010/390/ohyou.jpg

[Poet]

YoUuUuUUUUUuuuuUUUUUUuuUUUUuuU!

[Cugel]

When Lynch and Prescott came out their draft their qb draft class was considered the worst in years now it's this one? The "this worst draft class" gets use just about every other year. IDK maybe this draft class will be worse but then again they might better. Hindsight is always 20/10.

Well, last year wasn't supposed to be terrible. But, so far there is ONE QB who looks like a Pro-bowler franchise QB - and that's Baker Mayfield, and he went #1 overall. Nothing anybody offered Cleveland would have been considered. So, nobody had a chance at him.

Now, if Josh Allen turns out to be great, then fine. That was a mistake not to draft him at #5. But, so far he's far better at running the ball than passing it. Josh Rosen has looked terrible so far, but give him another year to have a chance to develop before we pass judgment.

But, so far the Broncos look like they made the right call when they said "pass" to both. That could change next season of course. But, guys who are really good tend to look really good in their first season - at least in spots. Ex: Pat Mahomes. He looked great in limited exposure his first season. Deshaun Watson was similar. Those are examples of teams that got lucky. Hopefully, the Broncos can get lucky too.

So far so bad. There's just an incredible shortage of really good QBs coming out of college in recent years. I showed you exactly that by reference to the 2011 draft.

But, other years would have served just as well for an example.

[BeefStew25]

Imagine taking Fournette over Watson and Mahomes.

[Poet]

Well, last year wasn't supposed to be terrible. But, so far there is ONE QB who looks like a Pro-bowler franchise QB - and that's Baker Mayfield, and he went #1 overall.e.

It takes time for many QB's to develop. This point you're making isn't very useful.

[TXBRONC]

Well, last year wasn't supposed to be terrible. But, so far there is ONE QB who looks like a Pro-bowler franchise QB - and that's Baker Mayfield, and he went #1 overall. Nothing anybody offered Cleveland would have been considered. So, nobody had a chance at him.

Now, if Josh Allen turns out to be great, then fine. That was a mistake not to draft him at #5. But, so far he's far better at running the ball than passing it. Josh Rosen has looked terrible so far, but give him another year to have a chance to develop before we pass judgment.

But, so far the Broncos look like they made the right call when they said "pass" to both. That could change next season of course. But, guys who are really good tend to look really good in their first season - at least in spots. Ex: Pat Mahomes. He looked great in limited exposure his first season. Deshaun Watson was similar. Those are examples of teams that got lucky. Hopefully, the Broncos can get lucky too.

So far so bad. There's just an incredible shortage of really good QBs coming out of college in recent years. I showed you exactly that by reference to the 2011 draft.

But, other years would have served just as well for an example.

If Allen turns out to be a great quarterback good for him. That in no way makes it a mistake for Denver to have passed on him. All of the top quarterbacks came in with huge questions. Taking the best defensive on the board and especially one that is a pass rusher is hardly ever a mistake unless the quarterback choice is a Peyton Manning, John Elway, Andrew Luck type quarterback. Those types are the first player taken off the board no matter what draft it is.

[Simple Jaded]

It takes time for many QB's to develop. This point you're making isn't very useful.

Keenum is coming into his own 20 years into his career as a backup.

[Gimpygod]

There is an element of luck to a guy like Manning hitting the market. To Elway's credit he took full advantage when half the league was after him. I'm not downplaying anything Elway did to bring us that ring. But now he has to do it the old-fashioned way. Draft and develop. The jury is still out on if he can.
I don’t think going to the super bowl without good free agent mojo is a thing anymore. With rookie contracts being cap friendly, drafting seems to be for depth now. If you are really good and lucky you build 50% of roster and merc the rest. Am I wrong? Elway didn’t fire the window licking VJ quick enough and special Ed Lynch got too much rope but no other horrible moves. Wait a minute ! Does it seem Elway has a soft spot for people who rode the short bus to school? Quick, somebody help me punch up mah resume I might be the next Head Coach.

[Gimpygod]

The ad hominems won't change the fact he's a shitty executive.

Be honest here, you think ad hominem is fancy talk for cheesy grits right? Elway forever!

[TXBRONC]

I don’t think going to the super bowl without good free agent mojo is a thing anymore. With rookie contracts being cap friendly, drafting seems to be for depth now. If you are really good and lucky you build 50% of roster and merc the rest. Am I wrong? Elway didn’t fire the window licking VJ quick enough and special Ed Lynch got too much rope but no other horrible moves. Wait a minute ! Does it seem Elway has a soft spot for people who rode the short bus to school? Quick, somebody help me punch up mah resume I might be the next Head Coach.

Well if nothing else you would be highly entertaining at press conferences.

[Northman]

I don’t think going to the super bowl without good free agent mojo is a thing anymore. With rookie contracts being cap friendly, drafting seems to be for depth now. If you are really good and lucky you build 50% of roster and merc the rest. Am I wrong? Elway didn’t fire the window licking VJ quick enough and special Ed Lynch got too much rope but no other horrible moves. Wait a minute ! Does it seem Elway has a soft spot for people who rode the short bus to school? Quick, somebody help me punch up mah resume I might be the next Head Coach.

I agree with this. Good post as usual.

[Gimpygod]

Literally all anyone is saying is that he doesn't get to rest on those laurels forever. The simple fact is that since Manning has left, some of Elway's decisions have been pretty shaky. That doesn't mean I think we should fire him, because I don't. Just saying it's time to start making some better moves to get us back in contention?

Wrong people in this thread are saying Elway is shit and just got lucky... that is what has me undies in a bunch O-O

[Poet]

Wrong people in this thread are saying Elway is shit and just got lucky... that is what has me undies in a bunch O-O

I mean, he did get lucky in a lot of ways. No one's saying he's shit, though.

[TXBRONC]

I mean, he did get lucky in a lot of ways. No one's saying he's shit, though.

EBF said Elway is shitty executive.

[Poet]

EBF said Elway is shitty executive.

That would be singular. Gimp said people, as in plural. It very much read like "you all need to leave Elway alone!" Most people who are critical are actually even keeled. It's the fan boys who are the criminals here.

[TXBRONC]

That would be singular. Gimp said people, as in plural. It very much read like "you all need to leave Elway alone!" Most people who are critical are actually even keeled. It's the fan boys who are the criminals here.

Ok, and you said no one and that isn't true either.

[Poet]

Ok, and you said no one and that isn't true either.

One person out of the dozens here is basically no one and closer to being true, in a literal sense, than one person and the claim of people.

[TXBRONC]

One person out of the dozens here is basically no one and closer to being true, in a literal sense, than one person and the claim of people.

No it's not closer to being true. He's says there are people and you there wasn't even one then you are wrong. I realize this point where you like make some kind smart ass comment. Just save it.

[Poet]

No it's not closer to being true. He's says there are people and you there wasn't even one then you are wrong. I realize this point where you like make some kind smart ass comment. Just save it.

I don't know why you decided to get shitty with me. I'm usually pretty decent to you, and even apologized when I was out of line. Saying people, i.e. a noticeable chunk of people saying one thing, when out of the posters you have ONE person saying something is far different than saying "no one is saying that," when one person out of everyone else is saying that.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

EBF said Elway is shitty executive.

He says a lot of things.

[TXBRONC]

He says a lot of things.

Agreed.

[Simple Jaded]

Elway has been shit lately, since the SB win he’s batting below Mendoza Line.

Do we need to rehash all the draft picks? All the talent he let walk? The reputation he earned with players? Those are part of his resume.

However, he’s the Architect of the Greatest Offense ever and one of the Greatest Defenses ever, all in the span of 3 seasons. That’s also part of his resume.

That’s reality, if you don’t like the word “shit” find another word, whatever suits you. But it’s been bad.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Apparently Munchak turned down other jobs and wants Denver

[dogfish]

Apparently Munchak turned down other jobs and wants Denver

ugh, screw that noise. . .

[Northman]

I hope we dont settle on him though.....

[Rick]

I could probably handle Munchek with Kubes working with the offense and maybe Pagano is talked into DC, though I think I 4-3 DC world be a better fit for us.

[Nomad]

Perhaps, Munchak will be a better HC his second time around. I don't know much about him other than he was a damn good olineman for the Oilers.

[Rick]

Perhaps he can lend some expertise to an area that might even be more important than the QB.

[Northman]

The Steelers Oline was not that great nor has been for a while so i dont understand the interest.

[Jsteve01]

Perhaps, Munchak will be a better HC his second time around. I don't know much about him other than he was a damn good olineman for the Oilers.

Not sure how that Dynamic works for older guys. You can see it with young guys where they learn from their mistakes and grow. Obviously Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick are the shining examples.

[Poet]

Not sure how that Dynamic works for older guys. You can see it with young guys where they learn from their mistakes and grow. Obviously Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick are the shining examples.

Old fogies must go

[Rick]

On the note of the steelers line not being very good :

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/11/steelers-o-line-ranked-1st-in-nfl-by-pff/
https://www.9news.com/mobile/article/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/mike-munchak-marks-halfway-point-of-broncos-head-coach-search/73-94946572-6927-44f0-9ee0-55fd4774509e

I can't find the article but I read earlier today that since he took over Rothesburgers hits have halved what they were before Munchak.

Not saying he is the all mighty savior or anything but I dont think I'd hate the hire.

[Nomad]

Munchak is probably hoping to get out of the soap opera that is the Pittsburgh Steelers. LoL.