No Surviving: Vance Joseph FIRED

[UnderArmour]

Per ESPN on TV just now.

Vance Joseph has been fired.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1079747677393510400

[TXBRONC]

There was no way he was going to survive.

[Shazam!]

Thank you John

[UnderArmour]

I'm so sick of the narrative that Vance Joseph had no offensive talent. Plenty of coaches have found ways to win football games with little offense. Hell, John Fox basically made an entire career of running the ball up the middle three times and running the clock down, only passing when he absolutely had to or when he had Peyton Manning at QB. You have to adapt to your talent, not to mention perform basic coaching responsibilities like managing timeouts and winning challenges.

Vance Joseph did not do that, and now he's gone. He has no one to blame but himself. Preparation and practice are great, but execution is what counts.

[UnderArmour]

I honestly just feel so relieved right now. It's a shame it didn't work out, but holy smokes he was BAD. So many fundamental coaching errors on game days. Year 1 it was not benching Isiah McKenzie, year 2 there were actual multiple instances where the head coach losing games with terrible clock management or bad challenges. Vance Joseph's game day IQ was WAY too low.

Wish him the best, but he has no business being a head coach. Hopefully he takes this experience, and has a productive career as a coordinator.

[VonDoom]

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/1079754286605713409

[VonDoom]

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/1079754537127366657

[BroncoWave]

Needed to happen. Glad Elway actually pulled the trigger this time.

[BroncoWave]

First interview request

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1079750709099352064

[BroncoWave]

Another interview request

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1079756936759910402

[Buff]

Another interview request

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1079756936759910402

A terrible, old school, unimaginative candidate who shouldn't even be on the list. I already hate how this is going.

[BroncoWave]

A terrible, old school, unimaginative candidate who shouldn't even be on the list. I already hate how this is going.

I'll wait and see who the hire is before I worry too much. But yeah, neither of the two names so far seem super appealing.

[VonDoom]

I posted these in the 2019 head coaching thread. I said the same thing about Munchak too - no thanks

[UnderArmour]

I'm okay with them casting a wide net. It's about who they actually end up hiring. There are also probably some strong candidates they want to interview, but can't until playoff outcomes are decided over the next two weeks.

[VonDoom]

I'm okay with them casting a wide net. It's about who they actually end up hiring. There are also probably some strong candidates they want to interview, but can't until playoff outcomes are decided over the next two weeks.

They can interview guys on playoff teams - see Flores in NE.

[UnderArmour]

They can interview guys on playoff teams - see Flores in NE.

Those teams are on bye. They can't interview coaches right now for the teams that are playing next weekend.

[Devilspawn]

I hope Flores gets this job or any head coaching job. He grew up in Brownsville, Brooklyn. If you can survive Brownsville, you can survive ANYTHING.

I don't know him personally but I know a couple of his friends. It's always good to see friends or friends of friends make it big time.

[BroncoWave]

Now we just need to set up an interview with the other Pats coordinator. :D

[Valar Morghulis]

I heard we just asked to interview Cowher

[BroncoJoe]

Now we just need to set up an interview with the other Pats coordinator. :D

LOL!! I almost spit out my coffee!

[atwater27]

Hallelujah happened a season too late. Also, he never should have been hired. He sucked ass as a defensive coordinator. Be smarter this time Johnny E.

[slim]

A terrible, old school, unimaginative candidate who shouldn't even be on the list. I already hate how this is going.

Who do you want them to interview?

[nevcraw]

A terrible, old school, unimaginative candidate who shouldn't even be on the list. I already hate how this is going.
Based on what?

[Buff]

Who do you want them to interview?

Honestly- some QB coach or OC who I'm not that familiar with because they are young, hungry and innovative... Someone like Matt LaFleur from TN - someone who fits the McVay/Nagy profile.


Based on what?

The first two names we heard about were a one-year defensive coordinator for the Patriots, as if that were even a viable option... And an o-lineman from the 80s who has interviewed for 1000 HC positions in the NFL and then dialed the clock back 25 years when he was running the Titans and turned them into a run-first team with Marcus Mariota as the QB.

I realize I'm overreacting - but VJ was so bad, and we've been waiting for over a year to begin this process - and we come out of the gates with these two clowns?

[BeefStew25]

Honestly- some QB coach or OC who I'm not that familiar with because they are young, hungry and innovative... Someone like Matt LaFleur from TN - someone who fits the McVay/Nagy profile.



The first two names we heard about were a one-year defensive coordinator for the Patriots, as if that were even a viable option... And an o-lineman from the 80s who has interviewed for 1000 HC positions in the NFL and then dialed the clock back 25 years when he was running the Titans and turned them into a run-first team with Marcus Mariota as the QB.

I realize I'm overreacting - but VJ was so bad, and we've been waiting for over a year to begin this process - and we come out of the gates with these two clowns?

Like a young hungry coordinator without previous head coaching experience.

[Buff]

Like a young hungry coordinator without previous head coaching experience.

Yeah just don't pick the fraud again. Prior HC experience is overrated in this league - especially with all the rule changes... Need someone to challenge conventional wisdom.

[nevcraw]

Honestly- some QB coach or OC who I'm not that familiar with because they are young, hungry and innovative... Someone like Matt LaFleur from TN - someone who fits the McVay/Nagy profile.



The first two names we heard about were a one-year defensive coordinator for the Patriots, as if that were even a viable option... And an o-lineman from the 80s who has interviewed for 1000 HC positions in the NFL and then dialed the clock back 25 years when he was running the Titans and turned them into a run-first team with Marcus Mariota as the QB.

I realize I'm overreacting - but VJ was so bad, and we've been waiting for over a year to begin this process - and we come out of the gates with these two clowns?

Don’t know much about the pats guy but munchak is HOF OL and one of the most respected coaches in the league. Not sure that makes him right fit here but it’s not like they are swinging on another VJ with him. BTW - if you watch Tenn play running the ball with Mariotta is the only way to do it. Look how Vrabel got them back in it this year. Running mariotta and crushing people with D Henry. Mariotta is not a passer to think otherwise is silly.

[Broncos Mtnman]

Hallelujah!! However, with Elway still making the call, I'm not very hopeful that the next coach will be any different. Elway is a control freak who will only hire a coach who's a "yes man," and he's part of the problem to begin with.

If not for Manning, Elway's track record would be much different.

[Buff]

Don’t know much about the pats guy but munchak is HOF OL and one of the most respected coaches in the league. Not sure that makes him right fit here but it’s not like they are swinging on another VJ with him. BTW - if you watch Tenn play running the ball with Mariotta is the only way to do it. Look how Vrabel got them back in it this year. Running mariotta and crushing people with D Henry. Mariotta is not a passer to think otherwise is silly.

Munchak would be a return to John Fox ball. So would Mike McCarthy. So would Vic Fangio. The NFL has a different style of play than they came up with. They're all good coaches but I think if you're trying to chart a new course and breathe some life into a franchise, they are all wrong for the job.

I know nothing about Flores other than he's a Belichick assistant and therefore I'm not interested.

[Nomad]

Good luck, John Elway. Find the Broncos a winning HC. TIA.

[nevcraw]

Yeah just don't pick the fraud again. Prior HC experience is overrated in this league - especially with all the rule changes... Need someone to challenge conventional wisdom.

Couldn’t disagree more. What rule changes would negate experience?

[OrangeHoof]

I'm guessing Adam Gase is on the short list. Not saying yea or nay. Just saying he probably is.

[NightTerror218]

A true sign to me he was done was after browns game he just looked like he was coaching desperate to win. So many poor, head scratching plays. He had no clue when to be aggressive and go for it on 4th down or when to take the fg for points.

[Tbolt]

A true sign to me he was done was after browns game he just looked like he was coaching desperate to win. So many poor, head scratching plays. He had no clue when to be aggressive and go for it on 4th down or when to take the fg for points.

This.

It was as if you could read the thought bubble. "I did it that way last game and it didn't work out, let me take the FG instead". Couldn't understand when to Challenge (SF game) either. Exceptionally poor game day coach, and his assistance suck too. It shouldn't take a half for Woods to figure out you have to stop Kittle.

[Cugel]

There was no way he was going to survive.

Troy Renk today was saying that "IF" Vance had gotten to 8-8 MAYBE he could possibly have survived. But, of course they didn't come close to even 7-9. Team laid down and died the last 4 games of the season.

The question is "who now?" And I'm not liking the projected candidates. You'll hear their names as they get invited to Dove Valley. And then you, like me will say "WTF?" Why is Ken Wisenhunt interviewing for this position? Because he did such an awesome job as head coach for the Titans? :confused:

[Cugel]

This.

It was as if you could read the thought bubble. "I did it that way last game and it didn't work out, let me take the FG instead". Couldn't understand when to Challenge (SF game) either. Exceptionally poor game day coach, and his assistance suck too. It shouldn't take a half for Woods to figure out you have to stop Kittle.

Well, the one billion 12 man on the field penalties should have been a clue. Those are not a sign of brilliant coaching.

[Rick]

Like it or not, some names will be on this list because they are the opposite of VJ. They bring long term experience in the NFL to the interview table.

VJ was too raw, was frankly clueless.

We may not like names like Munchek but they bring the Jon Fox stability and experience part to the table.

They are casting a wide net, if that net ends up not including some up and comers or talented re-treads then I'd start complaining but they want interviews this time around which will include the blah's.

[BeefStew25]

Pagano doesn’t sound awful.

[BroncoWave]

I'm guessing Adam Gase is on the short list. Not saying yea or nay. Just saying he probably is.

I've seen multiple reports that he's not. Still a lot of bad blood with Denver.

[Rick]

I don't think I would hate a Pagano hire.

[Rick]

I'm guessing Adam Gase is on the short list. Not saying yea or nay. Just saying he probably is.

If by short list you mean the short list of guys who wouldn't stand a chance of landing an interview then I agree.

[BeefStew25]

I don't think I would hate a Pagano hire.

Kinda checks some boxes.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I’d be down with Pagano.

[Buff]

Couldn’t disagree more. What rule changes would negate experience?

NFL offenses have evolved to look more like college offenses since defenders can't hold and grab in the secondary anymore... The emphasis for offenses needs to be on making the defense defend the entire field, and the way to do that is by utilizing good scheme to get playmakers the ball in space...

NFL teams passed more in 2018 than ever before... They use analytics more than ever before. They go for it on 4th more than ever before...

So the prospect of bringing in some run-first guy from the 80s who has been passed over for dozens of HC jobs doesn't inspire any confidence in me...

Experience matters, but I think finding an innovator matters more this time around.

[Tbolt]

Bring Back Mike!

[Buff]

Pagano doesn’t sound awful.

Great guy. Great defensive coordinator. Too emo to be HC.

[NightTerror218]

Elway wants experience. So far McD and VJ were both flops as first time HC. I am for a new McVay but that is so far to find a dude that smart and can take that command. Better is to find a good coach who is stable but can get good coordinators in and Elway to get his hand out of that.

[VonDoom]

Pagano? Ugh, no please

[BroncoWave]

Pagano? Meh. He had a less than impressive tenure in Indy. Seemed like Arians was more behind the success he had there.

[BeefStew25]

We ain’t getting a blue chipper. We don’t have a QB.

[chazoe60]

David Shaw is my guy.

[Rick]

Is Pagano a 3-4 or 4-3 type guy?

I like the 3-4 but I think we are actually better suited as a 4-3 team with the current guys we have.

Walker and Chub as DE's, Wolf and Gotis as DT's.

Von is Von, no matter the front.

[Buff]

We ain’t getting a blue chipper. We don’t have a QB.

Then swing for the fences and go outside the box and gamble on someone new... These retreads inspire zero excitement.

[VonDoom]

Yeah just don't pick the fraud again. Prior HC experience is overrated in this league - especially with all the rule changes... Need someone to challenge conventional wisdom.

As I said in another thread, we can’t just lock into the idea that first time coaches are bad just because VJ was the wrong choice. There are plenty of first time options that would be viable - Elway would just have to figure out the right guy

[Davii]

NFL offenses have evolved to look more like college offenses since defenders can't hold and grab in the secondary anymore... The emphasis for offenses needs to be on making the defense defend the entire field, and the way to do that is by utilizing good scheme to get playmakers the ball in space...

NFL teams passed more in 2018 than ever before... They use analytics more than ever before. They go for it on 4th more than ever before...

So the prospect of bringing in some run-first guy from the 80s who has been passed over for dozens of HC jobs doesn't inspire any confidence in me...

Experience matters, but I think finding an innovator matters more this time around.

Innovator at HC or at the coordinator spots?

[VonDoom]

Then swing for the fences and go outside the box and gamble on someone new... These retreads inspire zero excitement.

Bingo. There are eight open jobs and we’re not high on that list for attractiveness. We need to think outside the box

[BroncoWave]

Is Pagano a 3-4 or 4-3 type guy?

I like the 3-4 but I think we are actually better suited as a 4-3 team with the current guys we have.

Walker and Chub as DE's, Wolf and Gotis as DT's.

Von is Von, no matter the front.

Who even cares. If in today's day and age, a coach isn't going to adapt his scheme to the talent he has, don't let him anywhere near an NFL head coaching gig.

[Jsteve01]

I don't think I would hate a Pagano hire.

Kinda checks some boxes.

Agreed. Give him this defense and a creative young coordinator on offense. Plus he is a Colorado guy

[Davii]

As I said in another thread, we can’t just lock into the idea that first time coaches are bad just because VJ was the wrong choice. There are plenty of first time options that would be viable - Elway would just have to figure out the right guy

Nor can we say a coach with experience is automatically bad just because a few guys here are against anyone that has ever been a HC previously. I don’t care if we dig up Lombardi and put a clipboard in his hand, if he wins games and improves the team it’s a win.

Hire the right guy, no matter what.

[Simple Jaded]

Is Pagano a 3-4 or 4-3 type guy?

I like the 3-4 but I think we are actually better suited as a 4-3 team with the current guys we have.

Walker and Chub as DE's, Wolf and Gotis as DT's.

Von is Von, no matter the front.

He’s from the Baltimore 3-4 variation.

[BroncoWave]

Teams are in the nickel more these days than 3-4 or 4-3 anyway. That's so 2002.

[Jsteve01]

As I said in another thread, we can’t just lock into the idea that first time coaches are bad just because VJ was the wrong choice. There are plenty of first time options that would be viable - Elway would just have to figure out the right guy

Nor can we say a coach with experience is automatically bad just because a few guys here are against anyone that has ever been a HC previously. I don’t care if we dig up Lombardi and put a clipboard in his hand, if he wins games and improves the team it’s a win.

Hire the right guy, no matter what.

Lets see...coaches who sucked or were mediocre in their first stint....shanny and Belichek.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Run first guys from the 80’s are like 70-80 years old. Are any of them even alive? Did we give Parcells or Reeves a call?

Come on Buff, pull yourself together! :D

[Buff]

Innovator at HC or at the coordinator spots?

It's a great question, and this is kind of my point:

Munchak is going to bring a certain philosophy with him. He's not going to value having an innovative coordinator.

I didn't hate Woody Paige's suggestion of Dave Toub and two young coordinators. With that you'd get some veteran experience in Taub and his philosophy would probably be more amenable to innovation having been under Andy Reid.

[aberdien]

VJ is a nice guy. He sucked. Players loved him, I get it, but he was pretty inept at managing a game as a HC should.

I would appreciate the following people being interviewed:

-Pagano
-Toub
-Taylor (at least as an OC)
-Bieniemy

Other than these dudes, I don't see a lot of hope really. Bieniemy (Colorado guy) and Taylor are young guys but I think they might be too inexperienced at this point. But i'd still be down for a try because they've both been successful at their coordinator jobs.

Pagano and Toub are older guys. Pagano was successful in Indianapolis for the most part. Colorado guy. Toub is apparently gonna be the next John Harbaugh according to the experts.

Pagano or Toub + Taylor at OC would be cool if we want an older guy.

[OrangeHoof]

If by short list you mean the short list of guys who wouldn't stand a chance of landing an interview then I agree.

I thought he was overrated as Manning's OC. But he's a known quantity to the Broncos and had success here. He now has a head coaching history and would certainly open up the offense.

One concern I have though is the Dolphins lacked focus at times. Crazy thing is the Fins have played like Jeckyll and Hyde week-to-week ever since Shula left - and that includes some good HCs in that list. I wonder if the South Florida atmosphere just brings too many distractions.

[Simple Jaded]

Teams are in the nickel more these days than 3-4 or 4-3 anyway. That's so 2002.

You still have to have a base defense, it’s this kind of thinking that has led to the RB renaissance. Teams will always zig when their opponent zags.

[Buff]

I thought he was overrated as Manning's OC. But he's a known quantity to the Broncos and had success here. He now has a head coaching history and would certainly open up the offense.

One concern I have though is the Dolphins lacked focus at times. Crazy thing is the Fins have played like Jeckyll and Hyde week-to-week ever since Shula left - and that includes some good HCs in that list. I wonder if the South Florida atmosphere just brings too many distractions.

There is bad blood between gase and elway... As evidenced by the 33-9 onside kick last year. Klis tweeted about it today, it started with elway making him run more as OC and then culminated in him not getting real consideration for HC before kubiak.

[Simple Jaded]

VJ is a nice guy. He sucked. Players loved him, I get it, but he was pretty inept at managing a game as a HC should.

I would appreciate the following people being interviewed:

-Pagano
-Toub
-Taylor (at least as an OC)
-Bieniemy

Other than these dudes, I don't see a lot of hope really. Bieniemy (Colorado guy) and Taylor are young guys but I think they might be too inexperienced at this point. But i'd still be down for a try because they've both been successful at their coordinator jobs.

Pagano and Toub are older guys. Pagano was successful in Indianapolis for the most part. Colorado guy. Toub is apparently gonna be the next John Harbaugh according to the experts.

Pagano or Toub + Taylor at OC would be cool if we want an older guy.

Tatlor could be brought in as OC, McVay allowed the same lateral move with LeFluer. I doubt that is the case with Bieniemy.

[Valar Morghulis]

IMO

No way Gase even wants an interview

Would hate Pagano - he rode Arians and his own sympathy vote because of his cancer

Munchak would steady the franchise and achieve no on field success

McCarthy (see Munchak)

I actually like the Wisenhunt idea - love him as an OC, and think he would have learned from previous mistakes.

I know nothing about the Pats guy - so no comment on him

Shanny Sr would be a lovely story if it worked, but his time is done

Not sure who else is being mentioned

[UnderArmour]

No to Whisenhunt. I don't want a THIEF working for the Broncos organization. What he did to the Titans and their fans was criminal.

[Valar Morghulis]

No to Whisenhunt. I don't want a THIEF working for the Broncos organization. What he did to the Titans and their fans was criminal.

What did he do?

[Cugel]

Is Pagano a 3-4 or 4-3 type guy?

I like the 3-4 but I think we are actually better suited as a 4-3 team with the current guys we have.

Walker and Chub as DE's, Wolf and Gotis as DT's.

Von is Von, no matter the front.

I imagine that any new head coach is going to have to tailor his defense to the available personnel before he can remold the team with his own new players. That takes several years.

Right now the Broncos have a guy in Bradley Chubb who finished his rookie season with 12 sacks. He is an elite Mario Williams type DE. Those guys are almost impossible to find, which is why a lot of teams run 3-4 defenses, because it's easier to find a couple of beefy DTs who can play DE in a 3-4 who are not expected to rush the passer, but manhandle blockers and allow the LBs to run to the ball or QB than to find an elite DE who can terrorize offenses with his pass rush moves, but is also big and strong enough to handle OTs in the run game. Bradley Chubb was expected to be the top defensive pick in the draft because he could do that and generally speaking he has. His weaknesses have been in his coverage skills which he should not be doing anyway.

Having that man stand up and cover RBs and TEs over the middle is like entering a Turbo Maserati in a dirt bike race. It's just wrong. Hopefully next year we'll have a DC who will not do that and the pass rush will be stronger.

[aberdien]

Tatlor could be brought in as OC, McVay allowed the same lateral move with LeFluer. I doubt that is the case with Bieniemy.

Taylor is currently the QBs coach, which is why I think we could promote him to OC and bring him here if we wanted a stable/boring HC with exciting coordinators.

[UnderArmour]

What did he do?

If you look at the picture of things, he took an Arizona team to the Super Bowl. Then, he goes to Tennessee after getting paid and basically just mails it in until they fired him. 2-14 and then 1-6 to me, was a sign that he didn't care at all once he got paid. Guy does not deserve another HC job ever again. I have a lot of bad things to say about VJ, but at least that man worked his tail off (he just wasn't very good). Whisenhunt stole his salary from Tennessee.

[Buff]

https://twitter.com/MikeKlis/status/1079804575715155973?s=19

[aberdien]

https://twitter.com/MikeKlis/status/1079804575715155973?s=19

Suggesting the Broncos are stuck in the past?

No way!

[VonDoom]

Harris is spot on as usual

[Buff]

Im not sure what I expected... But these would have all been names to avoid on my list of candidates:

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1079805158115155969

[aberdien]

It's early yet...but looks like we're looking for a John Fox part 2.

[Hawgdriver]

Changing leadership is always exciting and VJ didn't inspire much confidence going forward. I hope this time the team values the traits that will lead to the most wins with the roster possibilities available in 2019 and 2020. Ability to quickly integrate the skills college players already have, rather than turning Paxton Lynchs into Trevor Siemians, is a plus.

[UnderArmour]

Im not sure what I expected... But these would have all been names to avoid on my list of candidates:

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1079805158115155969

Not sure why you would want to avoid him. Vic Fangio has coached on a lot of staffs, and can actually hold his own if he had to call a defense. To me, it is a Mike Zimmer/Sean McDermott type hire. His defense is what took the 49ers to 3 straight NFC Championship games. It would be a great hire.

[VonDoom]

Fangio wouldn’t be the worst choice. I like him better than the other names floated so far

[VonDoom]

It's early yet...but looks like we're looking for a John Fox part 2.

This was my biggest concern

[BeefStew25]

This was my biggest concern

We need a 5-7 year coach. Stability.

[Nomad]

I thought you guys were looking for an offensive minded guy, preferably familiar with the college game?

[UnderArmour]

I thought you guys were looking for an offensive minded guy, preferably familiar with the college game?

Screw offense. This team can win if Von Miller and Chubb have 20 sacks each, and Chris Harris Jr. has 10 INTs.

[Buff]

Not sure why you would want to avoid him. Vic Fangio has coached on a lot of staffs, and can actually hold his own if he had to call a defense. To me, it is a Mike Zimmer/Sean McDermott type hire. His defense is what took the 49ers to 3 straight NFC Championship games. It would be a great hire.

I would certainly prefer him to Munchak, because at least then you allow for the possibility of an innovative OC, and we could maintain some of our defensive identity... But again, bringing in an old school defensive coach (IMO) ignores the way the league is trending. I'd rather ride the wave of offensive innovators, someone who wants to embrace analytics like Doug Pederson. Maybe Fangio is open to that, but that's not my impression of him.

[nevcraw]

It's early yet...but looks like we're looking for a John Fox part 2.

Comparing the current list to john fox is kinda lazy. But having said that for sure sign me up for 4 afc west crowns and a trip to the super bowl

[aberdien]

Comparing the current list to john fox is kinda lazy. But having said that for sure sign me up for 4 afc west crowns and a trip to the super bowl

Yeah...i'm not saying it's the worst thing ever. Certainly better than VJ. But not particularly exciting.

I would be fine with Fangio. Pair him up with Taylor. Bring in a better QB. He seems like a funny guy at least.

[BroncoWave]

Comparing the current list to john fox is kinda lazy. But having said that for sure sign me up for 4 afc west crowns and a trip to the super bowl

Unless Fox 2.0 comes with Manning 2.0 that kind of coach isn't getting us to 4 straight division titles and a super bowl.

[Bugs Baloney]

This is an awesome way to celebrate New Years Eve! One big Broncos Country Party!

I wish Vance luck wherever he ends up. Just please stay far away from Denver.

[BroncoJoe]

Press conference coming up momentarily. Can listen to on 850 KOA Denver. Also on iHeart Radio.

[Nomad]

Press conference coming up momentarily. Can listen to on 850 KOA Denver. Also on iHeart Radio.

Thanks. I didn't realize KOA was on iHeart.

John's looking at himself in the mirror, because he hates losing.

[Buff]

Elway said they have 3-4 good candidates. Renck has said they'll cast a wide net - but all evidence we've seen up to this point would lead us to believe the hire will be from this initial list of guys.

[dogfish]

buff's right. . . that's a shit list of candidates. . . i had a bad feeling this wasn't going to go well. . . munchak, pagano, fangio? that's a solid list of coordinators-- i have zero interest in any of them as HC. . . sounds like 8-8 city to me, boys. . .

[Buff]

Elway referenced the offensive rule changes - said continuity on offense is an emphasis after 4 systems in 4 years.

[Buff]

buff's right. . . that's a shit list of candidates. . . i had a bad feeling this wasn't going to go well. . . munchak, pagano, fangio? that's a solid list of coordinators-- i have zero interest in any of them as HC. . . sounds like 8-8 city to me, boys. . .

If it's one of these 3 - give me Fangio by a mile... And then hope to knock the OC out of the park. But wouldn't be the path I'd choose.

[dogfish]

Elway referenced the offensive rule changes - said continuity on offense is an emphasis after 4 systems in 4 years.

which is why you need to hire an offensive-minded HC who will bring his own system-- not rely on your coordinator to set the scheme. . . if you do find a great young OC, he'll just get hired away in a year or two anyway. . . but yea, vic fangio is totally the guy to bring stability to your offense. . .

[Nomad]

LoL...Is Adam Gase a candidate? Elway really wanted to say **** no, but instead said not at this time. LoL.

[TXBRONC]

Now we just need to set up an interview with the other Pats coordinator. :D

They're not going let Brady go.

[Hawgdriver]

I'm sure this ointment the nice man is selling will get rid of this terrible rash.

Too cynical?

[Rick]

LoL...Is Adam Gase a candidate? Elway really wanted to say **** no, but instead said not at this time. LoL.

Similar to when Gary retired and John was asked if any on the staff would be interviewed. His nice way of saying **** no.

[Nomad]

I'm sure this ointment the nice man is selling will get rid of this terrible rash.

Too cynical?

Sounds like you're not feeling the message Elway is sending? It sounds like he really likes Keenum.

[BroncoWave]

I would be fine with Fangio. None of the others even somewhat excite me.

[Buff]

Elway alluding to VJ losing the players in 2017 and even though he coached better in 2018 it was too hard to overcome.. "It lingered"

[DenBronx]

Elway sounds really nervous in his press conference

[Poet]

Yeah just don't pick the fraud again. Prior HC experience is overrated in this league - especially with all the rule changes... Need someone to challenge conventional wisdom.

You’re a dirty girl!

[Hawgdriver]

Sounds like you're not feeling the message Elway is sending? It sounds like he really likes Keenum.

There are some bright spots. Hope they nail the hire and the draft! Go 2019 Broncos!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Elway alluding to VJ losing the players in 2017 and even though he coached better in 2018 it was too hard to overcome.. "It lingered"

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
10m10 minutes ago

#Broncos Elway said "As hard as we played this year, I think that feelings from 2017 lingered. If you lose the players' confidence, it's hard to get back. They played hard. But you still have to win football games. We needed a different voice." #Denver7

[Rick]

I like the what he said about the next HC, that not only is he looking for that cliché the "leader of men" but he also wants someone that excels at his side of the ball. That is a major improvement over "leader of men" VJ that knew nothing about leading the stat sheet.

[Buff]

My biggest takeaways from the press conference:

--I think the hire is going to be from this group of 3 candidates we've heard about, or maybe one other... He said specifically they've got "3-4 good candidates".
--Everything seems to be on the table: he basically said Von and "the best players" need to play better. That they'd consider a trade for Von. Kubiak could get back into coaching.
--He talked about the possibility of some of the current coaches being retained "especially if the incoming HC knows them" -- which makes me wonder which of these candidates have worked with our assistants in the past.

[BroncoWave]

My ranking of the 4 guys so far:

1. Fangio
2. Pagano
3. Munchak
4. That Pats guy

Really hope that isn't the whole list. Fangio is one of the hotter names and he might get a better offer than us.

[UnderArmour]

I see it as:
Plan A is trading for Harbaugh and putting Kubiak as OC.
Plan B is Vic Fangio or Brian Flores with Gary Kubiak as OC.
Plan C is Munchak with Kubiak as OC, and keep the defensive staff intact.
Plan D is Mike Shanahan with Kubiak as OC with defensive staff intact.

[Nomad]

Sounds to me, Elway wants a his next HC to have HC experience.

[TXBRONC]

Troy Renk today was saying that "IF" Vance had gotten to 8-8 MAYBE he could possibly have survived. But, of course they didn't come close to even 7-9. Team laid down and died the last 4 games of the season.

The question is "who now?" And I'm not liking the projected candidates. You'll hear their names as they get invited to Dove Valley. And then you, like me will say "WTF?" Why is Ken Wisenhunt interviewing for this position? Because he did such an awesome job as head coach for the Titans? :confused:

My answer was based completely off the fact that the Broncos finished 6-10. I was reasonably sure Joseph was done. 8-8 might have saved his job, but given how the team played down the stretch 7-9 would not have saved his job.

People are going to complain no matter what.

[Rick]

Brian Flores doesn't check the box for excelling on his side of the ball.

[Poet]

If Kubiak is the answer then Elway has little to no vision.

[Dapper Dan]

I see it as:
Plan A is trading for Harbaugh and putting Kubiak as OC.
Plan B is Vic Fangio or Brian Flores with Gary Kubiak as OC.
Plan C is Munchak with Kubiak as OC, and keep the defensive staff intact.
Plan D is Mike Shanahan with Kubiak as OC with defensive staff intact.

So do you think Kubiak will be our OC?

[dogfish]

I see it as:
Plan A is trading for Harbaugh and putting Kubiak as OC.
Plan B is Vic Fangio or Brian Flores with Gary Kubiak as OC.
Plan C is Munchak with Kubiak as OC, and keep the defensive staff intact.
Plan D is Mike Shanahan with Kubiak as OC with defensive staff intact.

just kill me now. . .



Brian Flores doesn't check the box for excelling on his side of the ball.

flores doesn't check a single box. . .

[Poet]

I thought you guys were looking for an offensive minded guy, preferably familiar with the college game?

It would be best, absolutely. Because it's the type of thing this organization would have done in the past - be bold and get someone innovative and talented.

But, if we're going to go down the old guy road, and if we're going to go defense, Fangio is the best hire in that regard.

[Dapper Dan]

So Chip Kelly it is.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Ellis is now talking again - https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/live-press-conferences

[Buff]

Relevant:

https://twitter.com/Ryan_McCrystal/status/1079824575897190400

[Poet]

https://twitter.com/Ryan_McCrystal/status/1079824575897190400

Buff, hold me.

[dogfish]

Buff, hold me.

you're going to love our innovative new "run it on every down" philosophy. . . :D

[Poet]

you're going to love our innovative new "run it on every down" philosophy. . . :D

I can't wait till we trot out the fullbacks. :shocked:

[Dapper Dan]

13473

[dogfish]

I can't wait till we trot out the fullbacks. :shocked:

two FB formation. . . i think MO just wet himself. . .

[Poet]

two FB formation. . . i think MO just wet himself. . .

I'm scared that this hire is going to excite the older fns who love outdated football.

You know, the type of fans who look at Keenum and go "yeah, that's a quarterback right there."

I am going to do drugs now.

[Dapper Dan]

Today is a time for celebration.

[VonDoom]

Brian Flores doesn't check the box for excelling on his side of the ball.

He does fulfill the Rooney Rule though. Plus he can give out some Patriots secrets during the interview.

[dogfish]

I'm scared that this hire is going to excite the older fns who love outdated football.

You know, the type of fans who look at Keenum and go "yeah, that's a quarterback right there."

I am going to do drugs now.

lol. . . let them have their moment, you bully. . .

[Rick]

Oh I know why he is getting the interview, mine was a response to someone that posted part of plan B could be Flores as HC and Kubes as OC. Was responding that Flores does not check the box that Elway pointed out.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
9m9 minutes ago

Elway talked about Gary Kubiak staying. Atlanta was among the teams interested in hiring Kubiak. Can #Broncos find coaching role for Kubiak, even if it's not OC, but an offensive role that allows him to contribute during the week? Seems like that is now a possibility. #Denver7

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
11m11 minutes ago

#Broncos coaching list includes: Brian Flores, Mike Munchak, Vic Fangio. Those are ones required permission. Others available that would not: Mike McCarthy and Chuck Pagano. Both expected to be on #Broncos list. But McCarthy could have his pick of jobs. #Denver7

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Elway says he's 'responsible' for failures, won't lower expectations

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/broncos/elway-says-hes-responsible-for-failures-wont-lower-expectations

from article - Elway seemed lukewarm on Case Keenum after he posted 18 touchdowns and 15 interceptions in his first season in Denver.

"Case is our quarterback right now," Elway said.

[Poet]

Elway says he's 'responsible' for failures, won't lower expectations

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/broncos/elway-says-hes-responsible-for-failures-wont-lower-expectations

from article - Elway seemed lukewarm on Case Keenum after he posted 18 touchdowns and 15 interceptions in his first season in Denver.

"Case is our quarterback right now," Elway said.

Give me hope, John.

[aberdien]

If he finds a way to get a QB not named Case Keenum then I will be happy with this offseason.

[Northman]

I'm scared that this hire is going to excite the older fns who love outdated football.

You know, the type of fans who look at Keenum and go "yeah, that's a quarterback right there."

I am going to do drugs now.

Wow, thats rich coming from the guy who was trumping Keenum's horn all offseason. Lol

[Poet]

Wow, thats rich coming from the guy who was trumping Keenum's horn all offseason. Lol

Did you just style on me?

[Poet]

If he finds a way to get a QB not named Case Keenum then I will be happy with this offseason.

You love Keenum though.

[UnderArmour]

Oh I know why he is getting the interview, mine was a response to someone that posted part of plan B could be Flores as HC and Kubes as OC. Was responding that Flores does not check the box that Elway pointed out.

Hard to say, actually. Flores does not have a whole lot of talent on that defense, to be honest. The Patriots have been doing a lot with a little for quite some time. He's not a Vance Joseph, that's for sure.

[Northman]

Did you just style on me?

https://media.tenor.com/images/0abbaa0322ba0a2f66d39693b76cc8cc/tenor.png

[Poet]

https://media.tenor.com/images/0abbaa0322ba0a2f66d39693b76cc8cc/tenor.png

:shocked:

[aberdien]

You love Keenum though.

Slander!

[Poet]

Slander!

Northman just brutalized me. We all bleed baby.

[aberdien]

Northman just brutalized me. We all bleed baby.
https://i.imgur.com/taq5WDl.png

https://media1.tenor.com/images/d469bf2a2147c0ed8195ef5f4c3fec3e/tenor.gif?itemid=4276606

[Poet]

Do you think Broncojoe will shoot me, or stab me?

[aberdien]

Do you think Broncojoe will shoot me, or stab me?

Attempt to run you over in his Jeep Liberty.

[Poet]

Attempt to run you over in his Jeep Liberty.

He'll need a bigger vehicle for that.

[Northman]

Yea, but look at the bright side King. If Joe runs you over with his Jeep it will be a quick death whereas if Abe did it with his eco friendly Prius it would be a slow and agonizing death. lol

[Poet]

Yea, but look at the bright side King. If Joe runs you over with his Jeep it will be a quick death whereas if Abe did it with his eco friendly Prius it would be a slow and agonizing death. lol

I will one shot a Prius.

[Shazam!]

I hope Flores gets this job or any head coaching job. He grew up in Brownsville, Brooklyn. If you can survive Brownsville, you can survive ANYTHING.

I don't know him personally but I know a couple of his friends. It's always good to see friends or friends of friends make it big time.

I vacation in Brownsville.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I know all the young folks want “hotshot” up and comers, but let’s look at the track record. The 2 retreads that Elway hires took us to Superbowls. The 2 hotshot young up and comers that we’re hired on either side alienated the fan base, made the Broncos a laughing stock, and crippled the franchise for at least a couple years.

I know what I think. I’m fine with an older, more disciplinarian HC who actually knows how to run a football team more than just some fad Xs and Os. Maybe we can get Shaw in for an interview or Peterson from UW. I’m okay going to the college ranks for a HC, but previous HC experience it really what we need.

[Poet]

I know all the young folks want “hotshot” up and comers, but let’s look at the track record. The 2 retreads that Elway hires took us to Superbowls. The 2 hotshot young up and comers that we’re hired on either side alienated the fan base, made the Broncos a laughing stock, and crippled the franchise for at least a couple years.

I know what I think. I’m fine with an older, more disciplinarian HC who actually knows how to run a football team more than just some fad Xs and Os. Maybe we can get Shaw in for an interview or Peterson from UW. I’m okay going to the college ranks for a HC, but previous HC experience it really what we need.

One retread had a loaded roster with PFM going nuts.

The other retread had a bad offense but one of the greatest defenses ever.

You can't compare that situation to this situation.

[dogfish]

Do you think Broncojoe will shoot me, or stab me?

yes. . .




I know all the young folks want “hotshot” up and comers, but let’s look at the track record. The 2 retreads that Elway hires took us to Superbowls. The 2 hotshot young up and comers that we’re hired on either side alienated the fan base, made the Broncos a laughing stock, and crippled the franchise for at least a couple years.

I know what I think. I’m fine with an older, more disciplinarian HC who actually knows how to run a football team more than just some fad Xs and Os. Maybe we can get Shaw in for an interview or Peterson from UW. I’m okay going to the college ranks for a HC, but previous HC experience it really what we need.

i ain't young, but i still want that guy. . . hiring the conservative old guy is begging for 8-8, IMO. . .

[wayninja]

"Case is our quarterback right now," Elway said.

Subtlety detector is off the charts!

[wayninja]

"Case is our quarterback right now," Elway said casually as though referring to a recently used tissue.

I elaborated on the original quote.

[BroncoJoe]

Do you think Broncojoe will shoot me, or stab me?

Just my evil look would kill you.

[Poet]

Just my evil look would kill you.

What are you waiting for - ******* kill me.

[TXBRONC]

Elway says he's 'responsible' for failures, won't lower expectations

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/broncos/elway-says-hes-responsible-for-failures-wont-lower-expectations

from article - Elway seemed lukewarm on Case Keenum after he posted 18 touchdowns and 15 interceptions in his first season in Denver.

"Case is our quarterback right now," Elway said.

Yeah that's not really a warm and fuzzy endorsement.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

One retread had a loaded roster with PFM going nuts.

The other retread had a bad offense but one of the greatest defenses ever.

You can't compare that situation to this situation.

Seriously? Fox had Orton/Tebow and a decent defense in Von’s Rookie season. Made the playoffs and won a game. That was pre manning and pre Elway going HAM to build a championship defense.

Let’s look at what this current team has: young studs at WR and RB. The best tandem of pass rushers in the league. A serviceable Oline and Dline. A decent secondary (when CHJ is healthy). FFS we had a chance to make the playoffs until VJ and Keenum ****** that up. Now, look at what Fox inherited from Mcdouchebag...

We are only really a starting caliber QB and non moron HC away from being a 10-6 wildcard team. Everyone sees we have some talent. We need a coaching staff who can effectively use it.

I’m worried if we go all young and stupid we get another McDaniels or VJ or some bullshit worthless ex-Pats coordinator who ain’t shit outside of NE. Last year everyone wanted Lefleuer and they were sure he was the next McVay. Now he’s unemployed because he sucked huge fat dick. Good thing we didn’t fire VJ last year in favor of that ass clown, huh?

[Cugel]

Yeah that's not really a warm and fuzzy endorsement.

Is what it is. There are no obvious better candidates out there in FA. The Vikings thought they were getting this amazing Peyton Manning-like candidate in Kirk Cousins. One year later they are out of the playoffs and sports broadcasters for ESPN (who happen to be Vikings fans) are saying "we would have done better keeping Keenum.") Seriously, they are having buyer's remorse in MN now.

Of course I thought "Well, we would be open to a trade if you like." :laugh:

But, it highlights the problems. No obvious future star QBs in the draft which is supposed to be one of the worst QB classes in decades. NEXT year's class is got 4 pro prospects, but this year? Maybe no top15 QB picks.

SO, what are they to do? Teddy Bridgewater? Trade for someone who has lost his job like Joe Flacco? ANd then pay $10m just to get rid of Keenum?

Or do they draft a QB in the 2nd or later round, and develop him for a season under Keenum and then depending on what you have, go all out and get a franchise QB in 2020?

"For now" might well be a looong time.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

In my previous post, I meant Defillipo, not Lefleuer

[Cugel]

First, in a comment that should cheer you up, "Elway prefers an experienced coach and believes this remains as desirable a job as it was two years ago."

He's wrong about this being a desirable landing spot, but he will be looking for an experienced HC.

[UnderArmour]

First, in a comment that should cheer you up, "Elway prefers an experienced coach and believes this remains as desirable a job as it was two years ago."

He's wrong about this being a desirable landing spot, but he will be looking for an experienced HC.

Chubb and Miller locked up make this a desirable landing spot. None of the other landing spots have the defensive talent available that the Broncos do. It's not overrated.

[BeefStew25]

I think Elway and the trust make this less desirebale.

[UnderArmour]

I think Elway and the trust make this less desirebale.

Trust situation actually makes it more desirable. Joe Ellis is going to be the guy in charge for awhile, and he's an executive by trait. Rather than being at the whims of some billionaire like a Dan Snyder or Jimmy Haslam, instead you have Joe Ellis, who helped a terrible coach in VJ keep his job a 2nd season. If anything, the trust situation means that a coach is walking into a situation where a playoff berth means that a coach has to be catastrophically bad to not be retained. Go 10-6 once, and get all 4 years.

[aberdien]

Pretty bad when the Browns are a more desirable coaching spot than the Broncos.

[TXBRONC]

Is what it is. There are no obvious better candidates out there in FA. The Vikings thought they were getting this amazing Peyton Manning-like candidate in Kirk Cousins. One year later they are out of the playoffs and sports broadcasters for ESPN (who happen to be Vikings fans) are saying "we would have done better keeping Keenum.") Seriously, they are having buyer's remorse in MN now.

Of course I thought "Well, we would be open to a trade if you like." :laugh:

But, it highlights the problems. No obvious future star QBs in the draft which is supposed to be one of the worst QB classes in decades. NEXT year's class is got 4 pro prospects, but this year? Maybe no top15 QB picks.

SO, what are they to do? Teddy Bridgewater? Trade for someone who has lost his job like Joe Flacco? ANd then pay $10m just to get rid of Keenum?

Or do they draft a QB in the 2nd or later round, and develop him for a season under Keenum and then depending on what you have, go all out and get a franchise QB in 2020?

"For now" might well be a looong time.

Keenum signed a two year deal I think "for now" means exactly that "for now." Every time I've heard a GM or coach say something like that it's usually means he's not going to last very long. Keenum could still be a Bronco next season, he might even be the starter but I wouldn't hold my breath. I also wouldn't assume that they would only start looking at quarterbacks in the second round.

[Rick]

We don't have the 2015 defence but we still have a ton of talent on defense.

We have a promising running game.

We have promising receivers.

We still need work on the line and we don't have a QB but we do have high draft picks.

To say this isn't a desirable team is just wrong. Depending on the coach this could be very desirable. A coach like Fangio for example might love this team as he could wreck some havoc with Chub and Miller.

A guy like McDaniels might find it less desirable with no QB.

It's a matter of fit and the right coach would find this very desirable.

[TXBRONC]

First, in a comment that should cheer you up, "Elway prefers an experienced coach and believes this remains as desirable a job as it was two years ago."

He's wrong about this being a desirable landing spot, but he will be looking for an experienced HC.

Cugel, with all due respect you don't know how desirable the job would be.

[dogfish]

Pretty bad when the Browns are a more desirable coaching spot than the Broncos.

baker MOfield is a stud. . .

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Pretty bad when the Browns are a more desirable coaching spot than the Broncos.

The allure of the browns has changed. They have a stud quarterback and a lot of young talent, combined with a loyal fan base.

[Hawgdriver]

you're going to love our innovative new "run it on every down" philosophy. . . :D

We'll turn this biotch into the Broncos version of MST3K, adding snarky comments as our next HC shakes his head and points to his playsheet after the fifth straight punt to open the game for the fifth straight game.

Ahem.

In all sincerity, love the team and hope they make all the smart decisions and incisive personnel moves. I don't like to be a negative nancy or a portable bummer. But the state of this franchise seems to me to be closer to the division anchor than the division champ moving forward. Just an honest take and I'll do my best not to spam it any more.

I know pouring water on the fan's fire is antithetical, but am I the only one who is so sour on the organization's apparent vision and ability of key leaders to create positive transformational change? Gosh, even when they landed Manning the idea was to turn him into a different QB than the one who could break NFL records.

[aberdien]

"stud"

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/844/919/7919844.gif

[Valar Morghulis]

"stud"

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/844/919/7919844.gif

lol, who was this? i remember seeing the tackle and lol'ing, but can't remember who it was - a college qb?

[Hawgdriver]

Trust situation actually makes it more desirable. Joe Ellis is going to be the guy in charge for awhile, and he's an executive by trait. Rather than being at the whims of some billionaire like a Dan Snyder or Jimmy Haslam, instead you have Joe Ellis, who helped a terrible coach in VJ keep his job a 2nd season. If anything, the trust situation means that a coach is walking into a situation where a playoff berth means that a coach has to be catastrophically bad to not be retained. Go 10-6 once, and get all 4 years.

Agreed. From the standpoint of job security, it's a safe spot for mediocrity.

However, the constraints that come with the current arrangement could be off-putting to a cross section of candidates. What I mean is that Ellis and Elway probably won't bite on any risky approaches to attacking the 2019-2020 season. It feels like more radical change is required at this time, but those types might balk at the philosophical blinders of the current regime.

Anyone second this opinion?

[Simple Jaded]

Elway referenced the offensive rule changes - said continuity on offense is an emphasis after 4 systems in 4 years.

:D

This warms my cockles.

[MOtorboat]

lol, who was this? i remember seeing the tackle and lol'ing, but can't remember who it was - a college qb?

Lol.

[Simple Jaded]

I see it as:
Plan A is trading for Harbaugh and putting Kubiak as OC.
Plan B is Vic Fangio or Brian Flores with Gary Kubiak as OC.
Plan C is Munchak with Kubiak as OC, and keep the defensive staff intact.
Plan D is Mike Shanahan with Kubiak as OC with defensive staff intact.
My sources are telling me Kubiak to Atlanta, I like that hope it happens.

[Simple Jaded]

just kill me now. . .




flores doesn't check a single box. . .

He checks the Rooney Rule box.

[Valar Morghulis]

Lol.

not helpful Mosephine - who was it?

[MOtorboat]

The brass seems intent on the Kubiak offense and bringing in a coach who won’t want to clash with that philosophy. Seems backward of how I would handle it, but it is what it is.

[MOtorboat]

not helpful Mosephine - who was it?

He quarterbacks the Browns.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis
‏Verified account @MikeKlis
1h1 hour ago

John Elway met with his assistant coaches today. Almost all have one more year left on their contracts. Per sources: He told them they're all under contract with the Broncos but they're free to look around. #9sports

Mike Klis
‏Verified account @MikeKlis
2h2 hours ago

John Elway's top assistant Matt Russell was a Patriots area scout in 2004-05 when Pats DC Brian Flores broke in as scouting assistant. Broncos, GB, CLE, MIA want to interview Flores, who has a tough-coaching style that works. Read this Q&A: http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4816211/brian-flores-talks-leadership-shares-lessons-from-first-year-leading-patriots-d … #9sports

[Simple Jaded]

you're going to love our innovative new "run it on every down" philosophy. . . :D

#ThrowToScore
#RunToWin

[VonDoom]

He checks the Rooney Rule box.

You’re a few pages late with that quip

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Tom Pelissero
‏Verified account @TomPelissero
35m35 minutes ago

The #Broncos have requested an interview with #Rams QBs coach Zac Taylor, source said.

[Poet]

Tom Pelissero
‏Verified account @TomPelissero
35m35 minutes ago

The #Broncos have requested an interview with #Rams QBs coach Zac Taylor, source said.

OH **** yes! Carol with the good news!

[Valar Morghulis]

I am all in on mandy Flores or whatever his name is.

He is what we need.

[Poet]

I am all in on mandy Flores or whatever his name is.

He is what we need.

I don't know much about Flores.

[Valar Morghulis]

I don't know much about Flores.

Neither did I until tonight, but I like everything about him that I have read

[Poet]

Neither did I until tonight, but I like everything about him that I have read

Is his name really Mandy?

[Valar Morghulis]

Is his name really Mandy?

No, Mandy Flores is a porn star

[Hawgdriver]

No, Mandy Flores is a porn star

Now there's a hire we could all get behind.

No cutting.

[Poet]

No, Mandy Flores is a porn star

I am going to have to do some research.

[Cugel]

Keenum signed a two year deal I think "for now" means exactly that "for now." Every time I've heard a GM or coach say something like that it's usually means he's not going to last very long. Keenum could still be a Bronco next season, he might even be the starter but I wouldn't hold my breath. I also wouldn't assume that they would only start looking at quarterbacks in the second round.

Elway translation: "I would cut Keenum today if I could find someone better who wouldn't break the budget." Of course he would. So would all of you and me too.

The question isn't whether Keenum has a "vote of confidence" he has NO vote of confidence. It's simply a question of: "Do you want to spend $30 million for someone like Joe Flacco?"

Because here's Joe Flacco's contract: Salary: $18,500,000, signing bonus for 2019: $8,000,000, cap hit: $26,500,000, dead cap space: $16,000,000.

So, ignoring the $16m cap hit that falls against the Ravens and which they would want the team trading for Flacco to pay (at least part of), Flacco is due $26.5m.

He is going to demand that some team pay him at least $20m.

So, it costs the Broncos $10m to get rid of Keenum (keeping him would cost $23m so they couldn't keep him and sign someone like Flacco).

$10 + $23M for Flacco = $33m. That's what Aaron Rogers is getting and we know Joe Flacco is "no Aaron Rogers." Not even in his dreams.

So, can you really give up elite QB money for a totally NOT elite QB and not cripple your cap?

That's Elway's dilemma. Sure, he'd like to find a new QB. He's going to try and find a new QB, but it's just not that easy to do.

Unless they want to spend just an insane amount of $ on not terribly good QBs they are stuck with Keenum + whoever they can draft this year in a crappola QB class and the 8th pick of the draft.

[dogfish]

The brass seems intent on the Kubiak offense and bringing in a coach who won’t want to clash with that philosophy. Seems backward of how I would handle it, but it is what it is.

if elway's so insistent that we have to stay married to that scheme, he could at least bring in lafleur to run an updated version. . .


and no, hawgie, you're not the only one pissing in the wind. . . i see your concerns. . .


taylor is a promising addition to the list. . .

[Simple Jaded]

Seriously? Fox had Orton/Tebow and a decent defense in Von’s Rookie season. Made the playoffs and won a game. That was pre manning and pre Elway going HAM to build a championship defense.

Let’s look at what this current team has: young studs at WR and RB. The best tandem of pass rushers in the league. A serviceable Oline and Dline. A decent secondary (when CHJ is healthy). FFS we had a chance to make the playoffs until VJ and Keenum ****** that up. Now, look at what Fox inherited from Mcdouchebag...

We are only really a starting caliber QB and non moron HC away from being a 10-6 wildcard team. Everyone sees we have some talent. We need a coaching staff who can effectively use it.

I’m worried if we go all young and stupid we get another McDaniels or VJ or some bullshit worthless ex-Pats coordinator who ain’t shit outside of NE. Last year everyone wanted Lefleuer and they were sure he was the next McVay. Now he’s unemployed because he sucked huge fat dick. Good thing we didn’t fire VJ last year in favor of that ass clown, huh?
DeFilippo didn’t even make it through his first season as OC.

[Simple Jaded]

Is what it is. There are no obvious better candidates out there in FA. The Vikings thought they were getting this amazing Peyton Manning-like candidate in Kirk Cousins. One year later they are out of the playoffs and sports broadcasters for ESPN (who happen to be Vikings fans) are saying "we would have done better keeping Keenum.") Seriously, they are having buyer's remorse in MN now.

Of course I thought "Well, we would be open to a trade if you like." :laugh:

But, it highlights the problems. No obvious future star QBs in the draft which is supposed to be one of the worst QB classes in decades. NEXT year's class is got 4 pro prospects, but this year? Maybe no top15 QB picks.

SO, what are they to do? Teddy Bridgewater? Trade for someone who has lost his job like Joe Flacco? ANd then pay $10m just to get rid of Keenum?

Or do they draft a QB in the 2nd or later round, and develop him for a season under Keenum and then depending on what you have, go all out and get a franchise QB in 2020?

"For now" might well be a looong time.

CuJoel just can’t sand being wrong about Keenum.

[Simple Jaded]

Agreed. From the standpoint of job security, it's a safe spot for mediocrity.

However, the constraints that come with the current arrangement could be off-putting to a cross section of candidates. What I mean is that Ellis and Elway probably won't bite on any risky approaches to attacking the 2019-2020 season. It feels like more radical change is required at this time, but those types might balk at the philosophical blinders of the current regime.

Anyone second this opinion?

Kinda just feels like they’re gonna go with the low risk candidate, much like their “draft only team captains” approach to the draft.

[Rick]

OH **** yes! Carol with the good news!

After VJ you are excited by a hot upcoming position coach with little to no experiance coordinating?

I like the idea of guys bringing thier system as well but scary proposition.

[dogfish]

After VJ you are excited by a hot upcoming position coach with little to no experiance coordinating?

I like the idea of guys bringing thier system as well but scary proposition.

we see a number of guys with relatively little experience succeeding right now. . . just because we hired a pair of scrubs doesn't mean that it can't work. . . if you hire one of those guys, it's smart to support them with established coordinators. . . every hire has risk, though. . . if you hire munchak or pagano, you run the risk that they sucked in their last HC job for a reason. . . i was on board with an experienced hand if harbaugh or rivera had been available. . . i don't find any comfort in the jim caldwells of the world, nor any of the guys who were just fired this weekend. . . or, god forbid, mike shanahan. . . personally, i'll take a flier on an inexperienced but promising coordinator over any of the realistic "proven" guys available. . .

[MOtorboat]

Now there's a hire we could all get behind.

No cutting.

100 percent completion rate.

[UnderArmour]

My sources are telling me Kubiak to Atlanta, I like that hope it happens.
Schefter reports Bevell is a choice. Koetter is frontrunner. Kubiak was early dot-connecting. Atlanta would have to send a draft pick because Kubiak is under contract, and retired with time left on his HC contract.

[MOtorboat]

Kinda just feels like they’re gonna go with the low risk candidate, much like their “draft only team captains” approach to the draft.

Zac Taylor wouldn’t be a low risk candidate, but agreed that the other public choices are.

[Poet]

we see a number of guys with relatively little experience succeeding right now. . . just because we hired a pair of scrubs doesn't mean that it can't work. . . if you hire one of those guys, it's smart to support them with established coordinators. . . every hire has risk, though. . . if you hire munchak or pagano, you run the risk that they sucked in their last HC job for a reason. . . i was on board with an experienced hand if harbaugh or rivera had been available. . . i don't find any comfort in the jim caldwells of the world, nor any of the guys who were just fired this weekend. . . or, god forbid, mike shanahan. . . personally, i'll take a flier on an inexperienced but promising coordinator over any of the realistic "proven" guys available. . .

This is not a time to be timid and feckless. An established retread won't fix shit. This is a different game of football. There's no country for these old men.

[Simple Jaded]

Zac Taylor wouldn’t be a low risk candidate, but agreed that the other public choices are.

I’m sincerely hoping they’re looking at him as OC but I realize he’s had interim jobs.

[Simple Jaded]

Schefter reports Bevell is a choice. Koetter is frontrunner. Kubiak was early dot-connecting. Atlanta would have to send a draft pick because Kubiak is under contract, and retired with time left on his HC contract.

Elway wouldn’t block the move, he wouldn’t do that to me.

[MOtorboat]

I’m sincerely hoping they’re looking at him as OC but I realize he’s had interim jobs.

They told Musgrave he’s under contract. The only thing they could interview Taylor for would be head coach at this point. He’s older than I thought when I saw the name, 35, but it’s an interesting candidate in my mind. Especially after Munchak. I don’t understand the Munchak interest at all.

[Rick]

Munchek might just be fall back plan if they can't find someone better.

Pair him with Kubes and Woods and hope he can work magic with the line.

Hoping they find better than him...

[Hawgdriver]

Kinda just feels like they’re gonna go with the low risk candidate, much like their “draft only team captains” approach to the draft.

Some of that seems to stem from Elway learning from his '17 mistake of drafting athletic specimens. I expect he'll correct course with his next coaching hire based on his experience. He will probably avoid the 'buy for the upside' mentality with this coaching/staff hiring season, but I'm sure he's capable of nuance.

Strap in.

[Poet]

Some of that seems to stem from Elway learning from his '17 mistake of drafting athletic specimens. I expect he'll correct course with his next coaching hire based on his experience. He will probably avoid the 'buy for the upside' mentality with this coaching/staff hiring season, but I'm sure he's capable of nuance.

Strap in.

Length and girth!

[Shazam!]

Some of that seems to stem from Elway learning from his '17 mistake of drafting athletic specimens. I expect he'll correct course with his next coaching hire based on his experience. He will probably avoid the 'buy for the upside' mentality with this coaching/staff hiring season, but I'm sure he's capable of nuance.

Strap in.

Length and girth!

I got both

[Simple Jaded]

They told Musgrave he’s under contract. The only thing they could interview Taylor for would be head coach at this point. He’s older than I thought when I saw the name, 35, but it’s an interesting candidate in my mind. Especially after Munchak. I don’t understand the Munchak interest at all.

So they’re keeping Musgrave?

[BeefStew25]

I got both

Sponsored by Viagra

[MOtorboat]

So they’re keeping Musgrave?

I don’t know, but Elway said all the coaches were under contract for another year, but could look elsewhere if they wanted to, at the press conference. I got it via tweet, I haven’t watched or listened to the press conference.

[Simple Jaded]

I don’t know, but Elway said all the coaches were under contract for another year, but could look elsewhere if they wanted to, at the press conference. I got it via tweet, I haven’t watched or listened to the press conference.

Ugh.

[Shazam!]

I got both

Sponsored by Viagra

Without it.

[TXBRONC]

I got both

And then you woke up and realized it was a fantasy. :D

[UnderArmour]

I don’t know, but Elway said all the coaches were under contract for another year, but could look elsewhere if they wanted to, at the press conference. I got it via tweet, I haven’t watched or listened to the press conference.

There was a snippet where Elway mentioned being in 4 offensive systems in 4 years, so Elway heavily implied that Musgrave will NOT retain his role as OC because he would have meant Kubiak, McCoy, Musgrave, new OC. However, in the past the Broncos organization has forced offensive coordinators into other roles due to being "under contract," so their stance is consistent with past handling of things (Ex: OC Dennison under Shanahan was held to contract, Line coach under McDaniels). I would put Broncos chance of a new OC at 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999%, but Musgrave may be back as QB coach.

[MOtorboat]

There was a snippet where Elway mentioned being in 4 offensive systems in 4 years, so Elway heavily implied that Musgrave will NOT retain his role as OC because he would have meant Kubiak, McCoy, Musgrave, new OC. However, in the past the Broncos organization has forced offensive coordinators into other roles due to being "under contract," so their stance is consistent with past handling of things (Ex: OC Dennison under Shanahan was held to contract, Line coach under McDaniels). I would put Broncos chance of a new OC at 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999%, but Musgrave may be back as QB coach.

Yeah, I would hope so, but Musgrave should have been fired before Joseph, so...who knows, man.

[aberdien]

Tom Pelissero
‏Verified account @TomPelissero
35m35 minutes ago

The #Broncos have requested an interview with #Rams QBs coach Zac Taylor, source said.

Go Big Red! Best passer in Huskers history!

http://www.huskers.com/pics7/800/PO/PORADWRZSWYSGLF.20061015030723.JPG

[Cugel]

CuJoel just can’t sand being wrong about Keenum.

Do you ever pay any attention? Or do you just blab the first idiot thing that comes out of your mouth?

I Do Not Want The Broncos To Keep Case Keenum. Not.

I do not like Keenum. He sucks.

I do not like him in a boat. I do not want him with a goat, nor in a stadium nor in a tree, now go away and let me be!

I think they might keep him because doing anything else is too expensive. Do try and pay attention!

[aberdien]

I love Case Keenum.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/08/STFD.gif

[Poet]

Do you ever pay any attention? Or do you just blab the first idiot thing that comes out of your mouth?

I Do Not Want The Broncos To Keep Case Keenum. Not.

I do not like Keenum. He sucks.

I do not like him in a boat. I do not want him with a goat, nor in a stadium nor in a tree, now go away and let me be!

I think they might keep him because doing anything else is too expensive. Do try and pay attention!

You were more than fine with the signing at the time.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

John Elway: 'It starts with me'

John Elway talks about his offseason plans for the Broncos, starting with his search for a new head coach.

https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/john-elway-it-starts-with-me


Joe Ellis: 'We owe it to the fans' to make improvements for 2019

Broncos President and CEO Joe Ellis sits down with Broncos TV to discuss Denver's coaching change and reveals the messages he received from Broncos fans about the 2018 season.

https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/joe-ellis-we-owe-it-to-the-fans-to-make-improvements-for-2019

[Davii]

You were more than fine with the signing at the time.

People change Kinger.... people change....

[Simple Jaded]

Do you ever pay any attention? Or do you just blab the first idiot thing that comes out of your mouth?

I Do Not Want The Broncos To Keep Case Keenum. Not.

I do not like Keenum. He sucks.

I do not like him in a boat. I do not want him with a goat, nor in a stadium nor in a tree, now go away and let me be!

I think they might keep him because doing anything else is too expensive. Do try and pay attention!

Keenum got a restraining order against you, didn’t he?

[Poet]

People change Kinger.... people change....

And some people change their minds based on reports until a report comes out that's final.

[TXBRONC]

Do you ever pay any attention? Or do you just blab the first idiot thing that comes out of your mouth?

I Do Not Want The Broncos To Keep Case Keenum. Not.

I do not like Keenum. He sucks.

I do not like him in a boat. I do not want him with a goat, nor in a stadium nor in a tree, now go away and let me be!

I think they might keep him because doing anything else is too expensive. Do try and pay attention!

Reading Green Eggs and Ham for fun or a court case? :D

[Denver Native (Carol)]

“I will meet every candidate for sure,’’ Ellis said in a sit-down interview with 9News on Monday. “Having said that, I want John to have an audience that’s a little bit narrower, so he can ask the questions and get a real feel for the coach and not feel any outside noise that I might bring, or extra people might bring. We don’t need a search firm. It’s important for John to sit down with all the candidates that he feels is a viable candidate to succeed. He’s got to spend one-on-one time with him to make sure he knows he’s got the right guy. Because John knows what it takes. He did it as a player, he’s done it as an executive, his dad was a coach. He knows what it takes, and I have great faith he’ll deliver us the next head coach and a good coach.’’

https://www.9news.com/article/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/broncos-head-coach-candidates-is-there-a-kubiak-factor/73-08293c92-403d-48fb-8df6-0ee3737e3136

This leads me to believe that Joseph was not John's first choice. I have a feeling that John wanted Kyle.
So was Joseph Ellis' choice, and maybe someone else's choice also? Some reason Ellis feels that he and others needs to butt out, and leave the choice to John.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I hope your right Carol. How’s your mom?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
23m23 minutes ago

I expect #Broncos new coach, whoever it is, to keep several assistants on staff. Special teams, RBs, WRs, OL and DL are ones, as I sit here today, that would be strong candidates to return. Others of course. But those jump out. #Denver7

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Ryan Koenigsberg
‏ @RyanKoenigsberg
2h2 hours ago

Per a source, former Broncos head coach Vance Joseph will interview for the head coach opening in Cincinnati this week.

[Poet]

Ryan Koenigsberg
‏ @RyanKoenigsberg
2h2 hours ago

Per a source, former Broncos head coach Vance Joseph will interview for the head coach opening in Cincinnati this week.

:lol:

[Simple Jaded]

Ryan Koenigsberg
‏ @RyanKoenigsberg
2h2 hours ago

Per a source, former Broncos head coach Vance Joseph will interview for the head coach opening in Cincinnati this week.

I hope he gets the job.

[Simple Jaded]

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
23m23 minutes ago

I expect #Broncos new coach, whoever it is, to keep several assistants on staff. Special teams, RBs, WRs, OL and DL are ones, as I sit here today, that would be strong candidates to return. Others of course. But those jump out. #Denver7

This makes good sense, I know people are down on the entire staff but there’s legit coaches on this staff.

[MOtorboat]

This makes good sense, I know people are down on the entire staff but there’s legit coaches on this staff.

See, this is something that bothers me (not Jaded, but he also bothers all of us, but the Broncos keeping half the staff).

I want my coach hand-picking his staff. I want him to have a vision and execute that vision, systematically, with every coach, from who that coach is to how he’s going to coach and what personnel is needed for their positions. And I want the head coach taking all that to the GM and telling him get me guys that fit this system.

I feel like the Broncos are doing it in the opposite direction, and that’s fine and chain-of-command-wise logical. I just think teams need to rethink how they build internally and start with scheme. It feels like square peg, round hole to me.

[Poet]

Forcing coaches to keep the old staff is Jerry Jones style.

[Nomad]

I still don't get where you guys are coming up with Elway forcing the existing coaching staff on the new HC.

[Simple Jaded]

See, this is something that bothers me (not Jaded, but he also bothers all of us, but the Broncos keeping half the staff).

I want my coach hand-picking his staff. I want him to have a vision and execute that vision, systematically, with every coach, from who that coach is to how he’s going to coach and what personnel is needed for their positions. And I want the head coach taking all that to the GM and telling him get me guys that fit this system.

I feel like the Broncos are doing it in the opposite direction, and that’s fine and chain-of-command-wise logical. I just think teams need to rethink how they build internally and start with scheme. It feels like square peg, round hole to me.
I’m literally too stupid to offend.

[UnderArmour]

See, this is something that bothers me (not Jaded, but he also bothers all of us, but the Broncos keeping half the staff).

I want my coach hand-picking his staff. I want him to have a vision and execute that vision, systematically, with every coach, from who that coach is to how he’s going to coach and what personnel is needed for their positions. And I want the head coach taking all that to the GM and telling him get me guys that fit this system.

I feel like the Broncos are doing it in the opposite direction, and that’s fine and chain-of-command-wise logical. I just think teams need to rethink how they build internally and start with scheme. It feels like square peg, round hole to me.

I think it's more having them under contract to give the next guy an option. Unfortunately, that option is going to come with a budget, and that budget is going to fundamentally require, or complete hamstring, the incoming HC to keep a lot of the existing contracts. There are financials, and the coaching circle is fairly tight-knit as well, so whoever comes in will get the opportunity to wipe out at least half of the assistant coaches, likely 70% of them. Guys like Kollar though ought to always have a job, and it would be wrong of Elway to deprive a new HC the opportunity to have elite coaches like him with a blanket cleaning of house.

This circumstance is vastly different though. With VJ, it was: are you really going to come in and fire coaches with a Super Bowl ring? Honestly, it makes it even more questionable the guy got the job in the first place. It wasn't like McDaniels where you were hiring a guy that had championship pedigree to him, but lacked the leadership qualities. VJ may have had leadership qualities, but he had no clue what it meant or took to be a champion, which fundamentally led to an undisciplined football team lacking vision.

[Simple Jaded]

Let’s be honest, it’s about the money these coaches will get whether they’re coaching for this team or not.

[BeefStew25]

Forcing coaches to keep the old staff is Jerry Jones style.

They are under contract. See if the new guys wants em or not. Calm down

[Nomad]

They are under contract. See if the new guys wants em or not. Calm down

That's exactly what Elway said yesterday.

[BeefStew25]

That's exactly what Elway said yesterday.

But then king can’t go on an autistic rant.

[Poet]

But then king can’t go on an autistic rant.

Didn't you dislike it when people called VJ radio?

[Poet]

They are under contract. See if the new guys wants em or not. Calm down

A single post is fiery, eh.