2019 who stays and who goes?

[broncofaninfla]

Figured I'd start a discussion about the upcoming offseason and the roster moves that may or may not occur. There will be significant savings with little to no dead money hits next season for several of the higher salary players who under performed this year or are on the decline. Thoughts?

[UnderArmour]

Figured I'd start a discussion about the upcoming offseason and the roster moves that may or may not occur. There will be significant savings with little to no dead money hits next season for several of the higher salary players who under performed this year or are on the decline. Thoughts?

Unfortunately, a lot of this will be based on money. The Broncos will have roughly $44 million in cap. Cutting Leary will save another $7 million. Cutting Case would save roughly $11 million as well. If the Broncos might decide to trade for Joe Flacco, or take a flier on Jameis Winston, that would eat about $18-$20 million of cap space.

Transition Tag:
Bradley Roby CB 27

Attempt to re-sign depending on cash:
Jared Veldheer RT 32 $7,000,000
Domata Peko DT 34 $3,750,000
Shaquil Barrett OLB 26 $2,914,000
Matt Paradis C 29 $2,914,000
Jeff Heuerman TE 26
Pick one, or both depending on market demand:
Billy Turner G 27
Max Garcia G 27

Walk with no negotiation:
Shane Ray OLB 26 $2,279,724
Zach Kerr DE 29 $1,625,000
Gino Gradkowski C 30
Jamar Taylor CB 28
Tramaine Brock CB 31 $3,000,000
Deiontrez Mount OLB 26


RFAs:
Shelby Harris DE 28 DEN TBD $705,000 RFA -
Kevin Hogan QB 26 DEN TBD $630,000 RFA -
Casey Kreiter LS 29 DEN TBD $630,000 RFA -
Jordan Taylor WR 27 DEN TBD $630,000 RFA -
Jerrol Garcia-Williams ILB 25 DEN TBD $555,000 ERFA -
Elijah Wilkinson T 24 DEN TBD $555,000 ERFA -
Joe Jones OLB 25 DEN TBD $555,000 ERFA -
Brian Parker TE 27 DEN TBD $555,000 ERFA -
Matt LaCosse TE 26 DEN TBD $510,000 ERFA -
Dymonte Thomas S 25 DEN TBD $510,000 ERFA -
Tim Patrick WR 25 DEN TBD $480,000 ERFA -
Jeff Holland LB 23 DEN TBD $480,000 ERFA


Darian Stewart and Brandon Marshall are trade candidates.

[broncofaninfla]

The way I see it Wolfe, Stewart, Marshall, Peko were inconsistent and under performed this year. I could see the Broncos cutting ties or seeking a cheaper salary with that bunch with the exception of Marshall whos been declining over the past several seasons. I can't see anybody willing to trade for Marshall nor willing to eat Stewarts current salary given his age and inconsistencies this season.

[broncofaninfla]

2019 salaries for reference

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/denver-broncos/

[BroncoWave]

The only must-keeps are Sutton, Lindsey, Freeman, Bolles, Paradis, Chubb, Von, and CHJ. Everyone else is negotiable.

[elsid13]

I’m not sure Paradis is keeper. He going to cost and McGovern has played well enough at C to make the change.

[elsid13]

Barrett is looking at deal between $6M and $8M. Proven pass rusher get paid.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Barrett is looking at deal between $6M and $8M. Proven pass rusher get paid.

We need to develop Holland.

[Northman]

Barrett is looking at deal between $6M and $8M. Proven pass rusher get paid.

I really like Barrett as well.

[elsid13]

We need to develop Holland.

Yeah. I bet Shaq ends up in LA, playing for Wade.

[underrated29]

We need to develop Holland.

Demarcus Walker too

[Davii]

Yeah. I bet Shaq ends up in LA, playing for Wade.

With Ray certainly out I think we'll probably make a deal to keep Shaq around

[turftoad]

Yeah. I bet Shaq ends up in LA, playing for Wade.

Well he did play better under Wade. That said, so did everyone else!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Demarcus Walker too

I’m persuaded his lack of development might be on him .

[UnderArmour]

I’m persuaded his lack of development might be on him .

Agreed. How many games did he actually play in this year?

[Dapper Dan]

Well damn. I was going to mention a few names, but after reading through I think you guys are talking about Broncos players and not BF posters.

[UnderArmour]

Well damn. I was going to mention a few names, but after reading through I think you guys are talking about Broncos players and not BF posters.

Any poster that has weathered the last two years of this garbage coaching staff, I am honored to have here with us. :beer:

[Poet]

DeMarcus Walker has been hurt a lot. That's my defense of him.

UA, if we trade for Flacco...I'm jumping off a bridge.

[elsid13]

DeMarcus Walker has been hurt a lot. That's my defense of him.

UA, if we trade for Flacco...I'm jumping off a bridge.

How high a bridge?

[Poet]

How high a bridge?

Stylishly high.

[Dapper Dan]

Vance Joseph needs to go.

[Shazam!]

I’m not sure Paradis is keeper. He going to cost and McGovern has played well enough at C to make the change.

He may never be 100% again either

[MOtorboat]

Unfortunately, a lot of this will be based on money. The Broncos will have roughly $44 million in cap. Cutting Leary will save another $7 million. Cutting Case would save roughly $11 million as well. If the Broncos might decide to trade for Joe Flacco, or take a flier on Jameis Winston, that would eat about $18-$20 million of cap space.

Transition Tag:
Bradley Roby CB 27

Attempt to re-sign depending on cash:
Jared Veldheer RT 32 $7,000,000
Domata Peko DT 34 $3,750,000
Shaquil Barrett OLB 26 $2,914,000
Matt Paradis C 29 $2,914,000
Jeff Heuerman TE 26
Pick one, or both depending on market demand:
Billy Turner G 27
Max Garcia G 27

Walk with no negotiation:
Shane Ray OLB 26 $2,279,724
Zach Kerr DE 29 $1,625,000
Gino Gradkowski C 30
Jamar Taylor CB 28
Tramaine Brock CB 31 $3,000,000
Deiontrez Mount OLB 26


RFAs:
Shelby Harris DE 28 DEN TBD $705,000 RFA -
Kevin Hogan QB 26 DEN TBD $630,000 RFA -
Casey Kreiter LS 29 DEN TBD $630,000 RFA -
Jordan Taylor WR 27 DEN TBD $630,000 RFA -
Jerrol Garcia-Williams ILB 25 DEN TBD $555,000 ERFA -
Elijah Wilkinson T 24 DEN TBD $555,000 ERFA -
Joe Jones OLB 25 DEN TBD $555,000 ERFA -
Brian Parker TE 27 DEN TBD $555,000 ERFA -
Matt LaCosse TE 26 DEN TBD $510,000 ERFA -
Dymonte Thomas S 25 DEN TBD $510,000 ERFA -
Tim Patrick WR 25 DEN TBD $480,000 ERFA -
Jeff Holland LB 23 DEN TBD $480,000 ERFA


Darian Stewart and Brandon Marshall are trade candidates.

I think they let Veldheer and Roby walk. I can see them trying to renegotiate with Leary. I can see Heuerman, Peko and Barrett signing for sure. I’m not sure what Paradis will cost, but I’m sure Elway will offer him.

I think Todd Davis is a candidate for release. He’d have about a $1 million of dead cap if released, but he’s just been awful, and Josey Jewell has been as good as he is and will cost only $570,000 on the cap.

I think Miller, Keenum, Sanders, Wolfe, Marshall, Harris, Chubb, Bowles are the high cap players they’ll most definitely keep.

Of the lower salary guys, these guys just seem to cheap and/or productive for the Broncos not to keep: Sutton, Walker, Freeman, Booker, Simmons, Yiadom, McGovern, Janovich, Jewell, Parks, Hamilton, Lindsay.

Past those 20 guys, I don’t think anyone else is really guaranteed to be in Denver next year.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Agreed. How many games did he actually play in this year?

I only recall 1

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

DeMarcus Walker has been hurt a lot. That's my defense of him.

How so, emotionally?

[turftoad]

I think they let Veldheer and Roby walk. I can see them trying to renegotiate with Leary. I can see Heuerman, Peko and Barrett signing for sure. I’m not sure what Paradis will cost, but I’m sure Elway will offer him.

I think Todd Davis is a candidate for release. He’d have about a $1 million of dead cap if released, but he’s just been awful, and Josey Jewell has been as good as he is and will cost only $570,000 on the cap.

I think Miller, Keenum, Sanders, Wolfe, Marshall, Harris, Chubb, Bowles are the high cap players they’ll most definitely keep.

Of the lower salary guys, these guys just seem to cheap and/or productive for the Broncos not to keep: Sutton, Walker, Freeman, Booker, Simmons, Yiadom, McGovern, Janovich, Jewell, Parks, Hamilton, Lindsay.

Past those 20 guys, I don’t think anyone else is really guaranteed to be in Denver next year.

Good list Mo!

I wouldn't mind seeing Roby stay. For only the slot CB. He's proven he cant be an outside CB because he gets burned by speed to easily. Depends on how much we would want to pay a slot CB i guess. He is/was very good in the slot.

[Poet]

How so, emotionally?

He missed almost all of his rookie season to injury. He missed a chunk of time this year to injury, too.

[MOtorboat]

Good list Mo!

I wouldn't mind seeing Roby stay. For only the slot CB. He's proven he cant be an outside CB because he gets burned by speed to easily. Depends on how much we would want to pay a slot CB i guess. He is/was very good in the slot.

He’s going to be too expensive to play in the slot. He’s going to get a nice contract somewhere, not massive, but nice, and I think as an organization they should look at Yiadom or someone else cheaper for the slot role.

[UnderArmour]

As "bad" as Roby was this year, cornerback isn't that easy to upgrade and they aren't widely available. A transition tag, and hoping it sticks (it won't) is the best bet for Roby. I would expect for his agent to demand around what Kyle Fuller got last year, and find at least one NFL team willing to pay it. On a transition tag though, the Broncos would get a chance to match. The absolute last thing I would want is for Roby to go off to Kansas City next year. Roby is still talented, I don't get why the board is so low on him. It's not like he got burned every game. Outside of the Jets game, I'd say he had a solid year.

[broncofaninfla]

I think D Walkers lack of progress is he's a tweener, not quiet quick and agile enough to play OLB and not big enough to play DE in this system. That being said it costs little to nothing to keep him around but the next coaching staff will be challenged to find the right spot for him.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He missed almost all of his rookie season to injury. He missed a chunk of time this year to injury, too.
I’m not sure that’s accurate. From what I have read he’s just been inactive.

[Poet]

I’m not sure that’s accurate. From what I have read he’s just been inactive.

The first quarter of the season, in the gameday threads where they list the inactives, I lamented how many times he was inactive due to injury. It really bummed me out, Al. And he was hurt last year.

It bums me out, to this day.

)=

[TXBRONC]

DeMarcus Walker has been hurt a lot. That's my defense of him.

UA, if we trade for Flacco...I'm jumping off a bridge.

That seems very unlikely that Denver would trade for Flacco. If he were released by the Ravens then I think the chances would go but I just don't see Denver trading for him.

[Dapper Dan]

I want Stafford or Eli before Flacco.

[BroncoWave]

I want Stafford or Eli before Flacco.

I'll legit kill myself if we sign Eli.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

The first quarter of the season, in the gameday threads where they list the inactives, I lamented how many times he was inactive due to injury. It really bummed me out, Al. And he was hurt last year.

It bums me out, to this day.

)=

Negative, he’s been a healthy scratch both seasons.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Article/Broncos-HC-Vance-Joseph-all-but-admits-DeMarcus-Walker-lodged-in-doghouse-126688930/Amp/

[Poet]

I'll legit kill myself if we sign Eli.

I won't be far behind you.

[Poet]

Negative, he’s been a healthy scratch both seasons.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Article/Broncos-HC-Vance-Joseph-all-but-admits-DeMarcus-Walker-lodged-in-doghouse-126688930/Amp/

I skimmed the article. I didn't see where it referenced last year's injuries. I do recall him being hurt earlier this year. If I am wrong, I don't think your article shows it, because the article. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. He's probably just another failed draft selection.

[BroncoWave]

I won't be far behind you.

I'd rather keep ****ing Keesum than get Eli.

[Poet]

I'd rather keep ****ing Keesum than get Eli.

Me too.

[Dapper Dan]

Y'all are ******* high if you think Keenum is better than Eli Manning.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I skimmed the article. I didn't see where it referenced last year's injuries. I do recall him being hurt earlier this year. If I am wrong, I don't think your article shows it, because the article. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. He's probably just another failed draft selection.

The only thing I remember from last year was the flack the coaching staff took for trying to get him to drop weight so he could play linebacker. Not being at ideal playing weight was the predominant excuse last year. This year he just can’t seem to earn the playing time. There’s a fair amount of speculation as to why that is, but injury doesn’t seem to be involved. :shrugs:

[BroncoWave]

Y'all are ******* high if you think Keenum is better than Eli Manning.

It's not 10 years ago anymore. Eli is washed up garbage.

[elsid13]

I'll legit kill myself if we sign Eli.

Can Mo have your car?
King would like your pants.

[Dapper Dan]

Can Mo have your car?
King would like your pants.

King has been in BW's pants a time or two.

[Tangerine]

Even Tim Tebow's pet cat is a better QB than Keenum

[Valar Morghulis]

I want Stafford or Eli before Flacco.

Trade for Carr. This year's first and Shane Ray

[BeefStew25]

Trade for Carr. This year's first and Shane Ray

I keep seeing this.

When have we previously done a trade with the Raiders? Or for that matter anyone in the division?

[Valar Morghulis]

I keep seeing this.

When have we previously done a trade with the Raiders? Or for that matter anyone in the division?

Things have never been done, until they get done.

Maurice Johnstone is a great example

[BeefStew25]

Things have never been done, until they get done.

Maurice Johnstone is a great example

Ok. Let’s see if that happens.

[Valar Morghulis]

Ok. Let’s see if that happens.

I mean, it definitely won't. I am just spouting shit on a message board.

[UnderArmour]

That seems very unlikely that Denver would trade for Flacco. If he were released by the Ravens then I think the chances would go but I just don't see Denver trading for him.

Alex Smith went for a 2nd round pick last year. Flacco will definitely be traded, and not cut. His contract is completely reasonable, so it is definitely possible, if not likely, that the Broncos pursue Flacco in a trade.

[Poet]

Alex Smith went for a 2nd round pick last year. Flacco will definitely be traded, and not cut. His contract is completely reasonable, so it is definitely possible, if not likely, that the Broncos pursue Flacco in a trade.

Stop saying this - it's almost like you're trying to speak it into power!

[BeefStew25]

What about Bortles

[UnderArmour]

Stop saying this - it's almost like you're trying to speak it into power!

The last starting quarterbacks for the Denver Broncos: Case Keenum, Brock Osweiller, Trevor Siemian, Brock Osweiller, Peyton Manning, Tim Tebow, Kyle Orton, Jay Cutler, Jake Plummer, Brian Griese, John Elway.

I'm not spoiled. Flacco would be the 3rd best quarterback on that list.

Bortles would be another Keenum. No thanks on non-draftee fliers.

[BeefStew25]

Bortles wasn’t drafted?

[UnderArmour]

Bortles wasn’t drafted?

I meant that I don't really want the Broncos taking a flier on a player outside of selecting one in the NFL draft. Flacco is a proven commodity. Bortles is proven to be inconsistent.

[BeefStew25]

I meant that I don't really want the Broncos taking a flier on a player outside of selecting one in the NFL draft. Flacco is a proven commodity. Bortles is proven to be inconsistent.

What about McCarron

[UnderArmour]

What about McCarron

He's under contract for $3 million. I don't see the Raiders cutting him, given Carr's injury history.

[NightTerror218]

I’m not sure Paradis is keeper. He going to cost and McGovern has played well enough at C to make the change.

That leaves a big hole at guard were McGovern was a great mauler. Paradis was been ranked is top 5 consistentlu since he has started. Our online took a nice step forward thus year and don't want to see it go back to crap and not even able to run block.

[Dapper Dan]

I keep seeing this.

When have we previously done a trade with the Raiders? Or for that matter anyone in the division?


I think Elway married a Raiders cheerleader.

[Poet]

The last starting quarterbacks for the Denver Broncos: Case Keenum, Brock Osweiller, Trevor Siemian, Brock Osweiller, Peyton Manning, Tim Tebow, Kyle Orton, Jay Cutler, Jake Plummer, Brian Griese, John Elway.

I'm not spoiled. Flacco would be the 3rd best quarterback on that list.

Bortles would be another Keenum. No thanks on non-draftee fliers.

I just don't want Elway to keep kicking the QB can down the road. This upcoming draft will be the second year in a row the biggest need is QB. I know people think/will argue Keenum was a stopgap, but most people either did, or should have expected him to fail. It was still the biggest need. It's the biggest need now. Last draft he didn't want to move up for any Qb. That's his choice, but he owns it. So, in this draft, if there isn't a first rounder we draft, and we go get Flacco/start CK again, we continue this half baked rebuilding and contending mess we've embraced since the SB.

Something has to give. Flacco is a continuation of the bad model or practice/s that got us here.

JMO. :salute:

[NightTerror218]

Playrers who I think will be gone with big cap numbers

Marshall ( save $5m in cap, $4m cap hit)
Roby (chase the money and get paid more then worth)
Stewart (save $3.6m, $2.8m cap hit)
Ray (chase the money and get paid more than worth)
Barrett (be like Jackson and will be paid)

[BroncoWave]

Carr is my pipedream of QBs who could possibly be available this offseason but it probably ain't happening. Someone like Foles or Bridgewater are more realistic.

[Poet]

Carr is my pipedream of QBs who could possibly be available this offseason but it probably ain't happening. Someone like Foles or Bridgewater are more realistic.

Carr's had a solid outing on a horrible situation this year. I agree with this. He's still throwing for a good completion and can attack downfield...on Oakland.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don’t think Carr goes anywhere

[Poet]

I don’t think Carr goes anywhere

)=

.

[MOtorboat]

I don’t think Carr goes anywhere

Gruden seems to hate him.

[Poet]

Gruden seems to hate him.

(=


.

[Simple Jaded]

Yeah. I bet Shaq ends up in LA, playing for Wade.

I predict Pittsburgh, with Joey Porter.

Btw, Barrett (and Paradis) is pretty overrated, he had the starting job to himself for most of ‘17 and didn’t do dick with it.

[Simple Jaded]

As for who stays, there isn’t a single player on this OL worthy of FA dollars. There isn’t an onunce of difference between the season starting OL and the current OL. Paradis is a “want” not a “need”, Veldheer is old and misses a lot of time, Garcia and Turner are Jags.

I would cut dead weight like Keenum and keep a few FA’s like Roby, then hit FA hard and purposeful.

There’s another $50 M in dead weight on this payroll, players you could replace with just about anyone and still go 7-9 or 6-10.

The Broncos keepers are among the RFA’s.

[Simple Jaded]

If Paradis is who PFF says he is then he’s going to set the FA Center market, that means Approximately $11 M/per and $25 M guaranteed ... is he that much better than his replacement? UUm, nope!

The more likely scenario is he’s not what PFF says he is, then Denver (over) pays him far less than $11/per and tells their fans that he took a hometown discount.

I say avoid both scenarios and move on, you found him in the 6th round, try replacing him in the 5th or 4th round if you feel the need.

[Simple Jaded]

As for who comes in, I’d like to remind people that Jameis Winston will most likely be available.

#MBGA

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

As for who comes in, I’d like to remind people that Jameis Winston will most likely be available.

#MBGA

Sweet, another pick happy quarterback!

[Poet]

Sweet, another pick happy quarterback!

But, because Winston has a cannon, his picks will be off of deep passes, which really is more of a punt if you think about it.

He upgrades our punter position, too!

We must have him.

[BeefStew25]

He has a turd character.

[MOtorboat]

Sweet, another pick happy quarterback!

Denver is 30th in offensive points scored from 2015-2018, which includes the Super Bowl season with Manning. Winston is 15th in the league in touchdown passes in that same time frame with 84 (57 picks). As a team, Denver has had 76 passing touchdowns in that time frame and 70 picks. He would be a vast improvement, both in touchdowns and interceptions thrown.

[BeefStew25]

Denver is 30th in offensive points scored from 2015-2018, which includes the Super Bowl season with Manning. Winston is 15th in the league in touchdown passes in that same time frame with 84 (57 picks). As a team, Denver has had 76 passing touchdowns in that time frame and 70 picks. He would be a vast improvement, both in touchdowns and interceptions thrown.

Aside from his mini Chad Kelly brain.

[MOtorboat]

Aside from his mini Chad Kelly brain.

Well, he wouldn't be my preferred quarterback, but we've got to get someone better than the scrubs we've had.

[BeefStew25]

Well, he wouldn't be my preferred quarterback, but we've got to get someone better than the scrubs we've had.

Kareem Hunt is available.

[MOtorboat]

Kareem Hunt is available.

Our head coach was accused of the same type of thing as Winston.

[Poet]

You both make compelling arguments.

I don't want Winston to revert to being good again (he had two nice seasons) and then get suspended. In other words, the Josh Gordon of QB's is the Josh Gordon of QB's.

[Poet]

Our head coach was accused of the same type of thing as Winston.

But we know he grew out of it. We don't know that with JW.

[MOtorboat]

But we know he grew out of it. We don't know that with JW.

True.

[BeefStew25]

Our head coach was accused of the same type of thing as Winston.

Repeatedly?

[MOtorboat]

Repeatedly?

Fair enough. He didn’t steal any crab legs.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Denver is 30th in offensive points scored from 2015-2018, which includes the Super Bowl season with Manning. Winston is 15th in the league in touchdown passes in that same time frame with 84 (57 picks). As a team, Denver has had 76 passing touchdowns in that time frame and 70 picks. He would be a vast improvement, both in touchdowns and interceptions thrown.

I know he’d be an improvement. My comment was tongue in cheek. Tampa’s problem is their defense sucks.

For the record I don’t think Winston goes anywhere. Quarterbacks don’t grow on trees.

[Dapper Dan]

What character issues has Winston had in his 3 years in the NFL

[Elevation inc]

We need to keep Keenum and bring in QB talent to challenge and push him for his job. We can be rid of him the following year for free. The guy can win games occasionally, and you need that in a back-up Qb. Yes its expensive, but its 1 year with no dead money when the season is over.
At RB keep Freeman and Lindsay and bring in a vet backup, Cut Booker
Keep Janovich
Keep Sanders, Sutton, Hamilton, Patrick bring in depth
on the OL Keep Bolles, Mcgovern re-sign Veldheer and Turner, Let Paradis, Leary and Garcia walk
At TE Keep Lacosse, Fumagali and Butt....Let the rest leave

At DL Keep Peko, and Harris, Let Kerr Walk, and Cut or trade Wolfe and Gostis, Let Walker finally play
At LB keep Davis, Jewell, Jones...Trade or cut Marshall
At OLB Keep Miller, Chubb, Barrett, Holland let Ray leave(We should have traded him this year)
At S Keep Simmons, Parks, Cravens, Dymonte Thomas, Cut or trade Stewart
At CB keep Harris, and Yiadom, Let Roby leave(unless we go back to a heavy man cover scheme), Let Langley leave

[UnderArmour]

What character issues has Winston had in his 3 years in the NFL

He groped an Uber driver. In college, he stole crab legs. Reeks of entitlement no matter how you spin it.

[Elevation inc]

He groped an Uber driver. In college, he stole crab legs. Reeks of entitlement no matter how you spin it.

I would rather bring in Tyrod Taylor on a cheap vet deal then go for Winston or Flacco.....hell I would even take kapernick over those 2 clowns.....shocking I know....but I would like to avoid the Miced'up version of Winston and his chicken fingers speeches lol

[Davii]

Our head coach was accused of the same type of thing as Winston.

He's also going to be fired in 3 or 4 days.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

What character issues has Winston had in his 3 years in the NFL

Suspended earlier this year, but I’m not sure what for. You’ve gotta be doing something stupid for the league to suspend you, generally speaking.

[Dapper Dan]

He groped an Uber driver. In college, he stole crab legs. Reeks of entitlement no matter how you spin it.

Ah. Sounds like Peyton Manning then. Better steer clear.

[Dapper Dan]

He's also going to be fired in 3 or 4 days.

I'm hard.

[Cugel]

Trade for Carr. This year's first and Shane Ray

Ha Ha! :laugh:

Seriously though, Ray is worthless and done here, they're releasing him, and the Raiders aren't stupid enough to trade Derek Carr to the Broncos. Trade him inside the division and take the chance he beats down your team for years to come? NO. They'll trade him to the NFC somewhere they never have to face him again except possibly in a SB.

Second, I doubt they trade him this off-season. There aren't a lot of franchise QBs in this years' draft and now Oakland is drafting #3 after last week's win. They might not be able to find a QB at #3. Next year is a much better QB class with Justin Herbert, Alabama's ​Tua Tagovailoa, Georgia's Jake Fromm, Stanford's K.J. Costello, and Michigan's Shea Patterson all expected to be available. So, Oakland probably does what the Broncos and a lot of teams will have to do - wait until 2020 to find their QB.

Alternatively, perhaps Oakland (like the Broncos hope to do) can find a guy in the 2nd or move back into the end of the 1st round for a developmental guy. If so then they trade Carr, but again, probably to the NFC. The Giants could sure use him and they have a high draft pick in each round.

[Cugel]

As for the Broncos roster, it's easier to pinpoint the players who will be back rather than those who won't.

On offense, they have maybe 4 established starters and the rest is all ????

OL: Other than LT Bolles, who is a lock to return? None. Ron Leary has been injured on top of disappointing, and he's earning $10m. Are they really going to keep Matt Paradis and sign him to a big new contract after his knee injury? He's going to be 30 next year and he's had 2 hip surgeries and a knee surgery the last 2 years. Plus, does he even want to return for a rebuilding team without an established QB?

Is Connor McGovern your C or will they move him to G? Veldheer is an UFA so he's probably gone. So there could be 4 new starters on Offense Line next season and will probably be at least 3.

TEs: They have none. Huerman is an UFA and underachiever and now coming off injury and Jake Butt hasn't been available in his first 2 seasons due to serious knee injuries. He may never be the player he was in college again. They need two new TEs.

WRs and RBs, they are set.

So, QB, LG, C?, RG?, RT?, TE, and that's just starters they need to replace.

On defense it's not great either.

First of all, are they going to a 4-3? Their personnel is better suited to that. Chubb is an elite DE - a Mario Williams type dominant pass rushing DE. Those guys are the hardest players to find other than starting QB. Why are they dropping him in coverage as a LB? The biggest reason teams utilize a 3-4 is that it's really, really hard to find elite pass rushing DEs like Chubb, and you're lucky if you can land one in the top 10 picks of the draft.

Domato Pecko is an UFA, and they need to decide what they are doing with the rest of the DL other than Derek Wolfe.

LBs - Brandon Marshall is gone, Josey Jewel takes his place, not Todd Davis'. If they got to a 4-3 they need a middle LB. Otherwise they might need 2 ILBs.

Secondary: This is a hot mess. Outside of Chris Harris, who do they have? Roby is an UFA and likely won't be back - not worth what they will have to pay him. And again, does he even want to return to a rebuilding team with no established QB, so they will probably be out of the playoffs again next season?

Maybe Parks can take over for Justin Simmons who is also very likely gone. Elway stupidly got rid of Talib and now they haven't got even a #2 CB, let alone a good #3. Is Yiadom a viable starter at #2? I doubt it. They need at least one and probably 2 good CBs. This is perhaps the #1 draft priority right now. Langley is worthless and should be released.

[TXBRONC]

Alex Smith went for a 2nd round pick last year. Flacco will definitely be traded, and not cut. His contract is completely reasonable, so it is definitely possible, if not likely, that the Broncos pursue Flacco in a trade.

What happened with Smith doen't mean it will happen with Flacco. It was stupid for the Redskins to give a second round for a 34 year old quarterback who is finishing out the year on IR. I don't see Denver trading a high for a guy who hasn't played all that well since Kubiak left as coordinator.

I remember someone saying years ago that when Manning was released by the Colts it was just about a lock that when the Titans showed interest in him, that he would end up a Titan because he loves state of Tennessee.

I don't know how likely it is that Denver will pursue Flacco in trade.

[Colorado4Life]

Unfortunately, a lot of this will be based on money. The Broncos will have roughly $44 million in cap. Cutting Leary will save another $7 million. Cutting Case would save roughly $11 million as well. If the Broncos might decide to trade for Joe Flacco, or take a flier on Jameis Winston, that would eat about $18-$20 million of cap space.

Transition Tag:
Bradley Roby CB 27

Attempt to re-sign depending on cash:
Jared Veldheer RT 32 $7,000,000
Domata Peko DT 34 $3,750,000
Shaquil Barrett OLB 26 $2,914,000
Matt Paradis C 29 $2,914,000
Jeff Heuerman TE 26
Pick one, or both depending on market demand:
Billy Turner G 27
Max Garcia G 27

Walk with no negotiation:
Shane Ray OLB 26 $2,279,724
Zach Kerr DE 29 $1,625,000
Gino Gradkowski C 30
Jamar Taylor CB 28
Tramaine Brock CB 31 $3,000,000
Deiontrez Mount OLB 26


RFAs:
Shelby Harris DE 28 DEN TBD $705,000 RFA -
Kevin Hogan QB 26 DEN TBD $630,000 RFA -
Casey Kreiter LS 29 DEN TBD $630,000 RFA -
Jordan Taylor WR 27 DEN TBD $630,000 RFA -
Jerrol Garcia-Williams ILB 25 DEN TBD $555,000 ERFA -
Elijah Wilkinson T 24 DEN TBD $555,000 ERFA -
Joe Jones OLB 25 DEN TBD $555,000 ERFA -
Brian Parker TE 27 DEN TBD $555,000 ERFA -
Matt LaCosse TE 26 DEN TBD $510,000 ERFA -
Dymonte Thomas S 25 DEN TBD $510,000 ERFA -
Tim Patrick WR 25 DEN TBD $480,000 ERFA -
Jeff Holland LB 23 DEN TBD $480,000 ERFA


Darian Stewart and Brandon Marshall are trade candidates.

Sometimes the bottom line is simply the bottom line. Great informative post.

[elsid13]

Maybe Parks can take over for Justin Simmons who is also very likely gone. Elway stupidly got rid of Talib and now they haven't got even a #2 CB, let alone a good #3. Is Yiadom a viable starter at #2? I doubt it. They need at least one and probably 2 good CBs. This is perhaps the #1 draft priority right now. Langley is worthless and should be released.

Simmons isn’t a FA until 2020.

[NightTerror218]

Suspended earlier this year, but I’m not sure what for. You’ve gotta be doing something stupid for the league to suspend you, generally speaking.

Rape allegation in college
Stole crab legs from super market
Stole soda from burger king

https://www-foxsports-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/jameis-winston-incidents-timeline-091714?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&amp=true&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ%3D%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fw ww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxsports.com%2Fcollege-football%2Fstory%2Fjameis-winston-incidents-timeline-091714

[Dapper Dan]

I heard Case Keenum got a cup for water at the Chinese place and poured soda in it.

[Dapper Dan]

Suspended earlier this year, but I’m not sure what for. You’ve gotta be doing something stupid for the league to suspend you, generally speaking.

Something came up from 3 years ago that he groped his Uber. He was drunk. Realizing he was a stupid drunk he cut out alcohol. Pretty sure Mr Perfect himself (Derek Wolfe) has been suspended longer.

[UnderArmour]

Something came up from 3 years ago that he groped his Uber. He was drunk. Realizing he was a stupid drunk he cut out alcohol. Pretty sure Mr Perfect himself (Derek Wolfe) has been suspended longer.

Derek Wolfe got suspended for taking a banned substance. Winston got suspended for mistreating women. Huge difference.

However, if Elway is able to reference check Winston and everything else checks out, I would be okay with sending a 2nd or a 3rd along with Keenum. Granted, it would be risky for the Bucs to trade Winston before draft day and risk the Giants or the Jags jumping them on the board, but sometimes you just gotta move on.

[Simple Jaded]

How the **** is CB priority #1 over QB? Keenum is the Dominique Foxworth of QB’s, and he’s starting.

[Dapper Dan]

Derek Wolfe got suspended for taking a banned substance. Winston got suspended for mistreating women. Huge difference.

However, if Elway is able to reference check Winston and everything else checks out, I would be okay with sending a 2nd or a 3rd along with Keenum. Granted, it would be risky for the Bucs to trade Winston before draft day and risk the Giants or the Jags jumping them on the board, but sometimes you just gotta move on.

Yeah. Derek Wolfe got caught cheating. Very minor. Just ask Pete Rose. Mistreating a woman is something young and stupid, like what Peyton Manning did. You guys need to get over Winston's college reputation. As far as I'm concerned he has no more character issues than Wolfe, Talib, or anyone else we've had recently. I guess even Champ Bailey might be a shitty dad.

[Poet]

Dan, he groped a woman recently. Which shows that he arguably hasn't changed. He also, when speaking to a group of kids at a school, made some...interesting comments about gender roles which make me question his maturity regarding the treatment of women, too.

It is a concern.

[Dapper Dan]

Dan, he groped a woman recently. Which shows that he arguably hasn't changed. He also, when speaking to a group of kids at a school, made some...interesting comments about gender roles which make me question his maturity regarding the treatment of women, too.

It is a concern.

1. What I read said it was about 3 years ago. That would have been when he was drafted.

2. What did he say? I hate to break it to you, but if we asked players about their ideas on gender roles and they gave an honest answer, the everyone would be ******. People are ****** up. Do you think Talib is a feminist?

[NightTerror218]

Yeah. Derek Wolfe got caught cheating. Very minor. Just ask Pete Rose. Mistreating a woman is something young and stupid, like what Peyton Manning did. You guys need to get over Winston's college reputation. As far as I'm concerned he has no more character issues than Wolfe, Talib, or anyone else we've had recently. I guess even Champ Bailey might be a shitty dad.

Sexual assault aka rape is not something dumb and young.

Peyton sat on a female trainers face... Huge diff imo

[NightTerror218]

1. What I read said it was about 3 years ago. That would have been when he was drafted.

2. What did he say? I hate to break it to you, but if we asked players about their ideas on gender roles and they gave an honest answer, the everyone would be ******. People are ****** up. Do you think Talib is a feminist?

Winston was in the NFL when he groped Uber driver in 2016. Which is why he was suspended. NFL can't suspend college students.

[Poet]

1. What I read said it was about 3 years ago. That would have been when he was drafted.

2. What did he say? I hate to break it to you, but if we asked players about their ideas on gender roles and they gave an honest answer, the everyone would be ******. People are ****** up. Do you think Talib is a feminist?

It was something along the lines of women need to be quiet. A dude with a history, a bad history, with women is saying they should be quiet. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/02/23/jameis-winston-tells-a-crowd-of-little-kids-that-women-should-be-silent-polite-gentle/?utm_term=.7029bcdfd85b

Silent. That was it.

Here's the exact quote: “All my young boys, stand up. The ladies, sit down,” Winston said. “But all my boys, stand up. We strong, right? We strong! We strong, right? All my boys, tell me one time: I can do anything I put my mind to. Now a lot of boys aren’t supposed to be soft-spoken. You know what I’m saying? One day y’all are going to have a very deep voice like this (in deep voice). One day, you’ll have a very, very deep voice.

“But the ladies, they’re supposed to be silent, polite, gentle. My men, my men (are) supposed to be strong. I want y’all to tell me what the third rule of life is: I can do anything I put my mind to. Scream it!”

Yeah, I doubt he gets it. Even if he didn't mean it in regards to how it sounds, the fact that he's still so unworldly stupid about it...speaks a lot to that, too.

[Valar Morghulis]

Sexual assault aka rape is not something dumb and young.

Peyton sat on a female trainers face... Huge diff imo

This will sound ridiculous to most of you..... and I acknowledge I wasn't there..... But did you think she voluntarily let him sit on her face, or was she coerced, either physically or psychologically?

The trauma response to losing control - is the trauma response to losing control. Some people get PTSD from a long convoy with an anticipated ambush that never happens others get it from direct contact when people die. Neither had a lesser trauma.

I am Just highlighting the argument about "difference" in the context of those who experience an event is very subjective and the severity of an offense should not always be assessed on the actual offense, but the consequences

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I’m having a hard time following you Dave.

[Simple Jaded]

My wife knows her role, I tell ya that much. If she don’t cook I don’t eat, and I can get laid any time she wants to.

[Valar Morghulis]

I’m having a hard time following you Dave.

Peyton sitting on a face is not ok if the face he sat on did not want him to do so.

But I get people will think that's nonsense so I tried to link it to a military situation that people can relate with, yet highlights the same mechanism in the brain in different situations

[Simple Jaded]

I’m having a hard time following you Dave.

It’s the Snatch accent.

[Poet]

Peyton sitting on a face is not ok if the face he sat on did not want him to do so.

But I get people will think that's nonsense so I tried to link it to a military situation that people can relate with, yet highlights the same mechanism in the brain in different situations

I agree with this - but it is hard to reconcile. One instance is a prank, and not, well, erhm, there's no penetration. Or attempted penetration.

[Spiritguy]

Playrers who I think will be gone with big cap numbers

Marshall ( save $5m in cap, $4m cap hit)
Roby (chase the money and get paid more then worth)
Stewart (save $3.6m, $2.8m cap hit)
Ray (chase the money and get paid more than worth)
Barrett (be like Jackson and will be paid)

Looks like in Barrett's case that may be accurate.

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/1078734193180504064

[Valar Morghulis]

I agree with this - but it is hard to reconcile. One instance is a prank, and not, well, erhm, there's no penetration. Or attempted penetration.

Mate I get it.

But I also understand trauma. And I know how misunderstood trauma is.

It's really hard to convey a point like that in a sound bite!!

[Simple Jaded]

Dave I think the Snatch guy was Irish, do y’all like the Irish or is this an insult?

I’m only a quarter Irish so no worries.

[UnderArmour]

Looks like in Barrett's case that may be accurate.

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/1078734193180504064


I wish him the best. Hope he gets an NFC team to pay him like he deserves.

[Valar Morghulis]

Dave I think the Snatch guy was Irish, do y’all like the Irish or is this an insult?

I’m only a quarter Irish so no worries.

Me personally, I don't give a ****. it's Brad Pitt after all. He gives me a stawner.

But most Scottish people would not be happy with the comparison to an Irish gypo

[Poet]

There was an exchange student from Ireland, a fine part of England, I might add, who said the "the gypes are the Arabs Europe'.

I then found out that the word gypsy is a slur in and of itself.

[Simple Jaded]

Me personally, I don't give a ****. it's Brad Pitt after all. He gives me a stawner.

But most Scottish people would not be happy with the comparison to an Irish gypo

I apologize, my instincts told me it was wrong. Don’t hate me, I’m mostly Finnish.

[Simple Jaded]

Looks like in Barrett's case that may be accurate.

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/1078734193180504064

Move him to ILB and quit pretending in the current Core of stiffs.

[Northman]

Move him to ILB and quit pretending in the current Core of stiffs.

Yep.

[Valar Morghulis]

I apologize, my instincts told me it was wrong. Don’t hate me, I’m mostly Finnish.

The Finnish give me a stawner

[Simple Jaded]

The Finnish give me a stawner

We’re ****** sexy.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Peyton sitting on a face is not ok if the face he sat on did not want him to do so.

But I get people will think that's nonsense so I tried to link it to a military situation that people can relate with, yet highlights the same mechanism in the brain in different situations

I agree with this.

What I don’t agree with is this makes the character of Winston and Manning interchangeable. Winston demonstrates the tendencies of a sociopath.

Hopefully Dan doesn’t go “leave Brittany alone!” on me. :laugh:

[Poet]

Who goin' kill me if we sign Flacco?

[Poet]

Who goin' kill me if we sign Flacco?

I got you fam!

[Valar Morghulis]

I agree with this.

What I don’t agree with is this makes the character of Winston and Manning interchangeable. Winston demonstrates the tendencies of a sociopath.

Hopefully Dan doesn’t go “leave Brittany alone!” on me. :laugh:

I don't think that either.

I was just a little uncomfortable with the statement that indicated the incidents were totally different. I get they are different. But unless we understand the victims response....we don't know how different

[Dapper Dan]

I agree with this.

What I don’t agree with is this makes the character of Winston and Manning interchangeable. Winston demonstrates the tendencies of a sociopath.

Hopefully Dan doesn’t go “leave Brittany alone!” on me. :laugh:

Lol. Now Winston might be a sociopath. That’s a bit much.

[Simple Jaded]

He’s a psychopathic killer, but so what?


https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0baba16a-0806-4682-b302-12ed79d236eb

[Dapper Dan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlWZFxCQ0uk#dialog

[UnderArmour]

Who goin' kill me if we sign Flacco?

I honestly don't get the anti-Flacco business. Guy has been surrounded with sub-par talent at other skill positions almost his entire time in Baltimore. Sure, he's had a good line. But outside of Ray Rice and Torey Smith, who has he really had to throw the ball to? Honestly, of all the veteran QBs the Broncos could get, he has the highest ceiling and the lowest floor.

[Simple Jaded]

Trade a 2nd round pick and Keenum for Harbaugh and Flacco. (Based on John Clayton appraisal of Harbaugh value)

You’re welcome.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I said sociopathic tendencies. I didn’t say homicidal sociopath. Jeesh!

[Elevation inc]

If we pickup Flacco we’re going to be in the same middling spot of 8-8, 9-7 that’s why most of us don’t want Flacco. He changes nothing for us....

[Nomad]

Trade a 2nd round pick and Keenum for Harbaugh and Flacco. (Based on John Clayton appraisal of Harbaugh value)

You’re welcome.

I haven't seen that dude's rat face in a long time. Is he still around the NFL?

[Northman]

Dont be busting on Clayton, he's a fellow Slayer fan so back off.

[Nomad]

Dont be busting on Clayton, he's a fellow Slayer fan so back off.

Just for you and Clayton. :D
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-ddc-ddc_bd&hsimp=yhs-ddc_bd&hspart=ddc&p=slayer#id=2&vid=8845b4727f66ebe283c6a45e2188f0d3&action=click

[Poet]

If we pickup Flacco we’re going to be in the same middling spot of 8-8, 9-7 that’s why most of us don’t want Flacco. He changes nothing for us....

Elway's scared of a real rebuild. He was also scared to draft a rookie QB, retain defensive components, and try to win that way, which has worked in the past, for other teams.

I love him. Uniquely, I might add. but I worry about him.

[Cugel]

Trade a 2nd round pick and Keenum for Harbaugh and Flacco. (Based on John Clayton appraisal of Harbaugh value)

You’re welcome.

They are extending him. They are keeping him. The speculation about Harbaugh being on the hot seat was dependent on their continuing to suck and not make the playoffs. The Ravens are 9-6 right now and a game up on the Steelers in the Central. They win at home against the Brown and they're in the playoffs. Their defense is pretty good. Cleveland, despite the arrival of Baker Mayfield is still 7-7-1. They've gone from awful to mediocre. But, they're on the road against that defense and that crowd with the playoffs on the line. He's not getting fired.

I'd say probably even if they lose that game he's not getting fired. Adam Scheffter said so pretty much on Denver talk radio last week. He said he hasn't heard anything about Harbaugh getting fired. That's media speculation based on them possibly continuing to suck since they started the season 3-5. They are 6-1 the second half with their only loss coming to KC.

[Cugel]

Joe Flacco is under contract for 2019 for $18,500,000 in base salary and an $8,000,000 bonus due that year. That money is guaranteed (if you want him to play under his contract).

Of course the Ravens could void the contract, in which case they would suffer a ginormous, gigantine, Brobdingnagian Monstrosity of a Cap Hit, to the tune of $16million. They would want any team intending to trade for Flacco to take that cap hit themselves or at least part of it, which makes Flacco even less affordable and thus undesireable.

I'd say unless Baltimore is willing to eat the cap hit I would never trade for him at all regardless of how little they might want for him in terms of a draft pick or player.

And that is regardless of how you view his talent level after losing his job to Lamar Jackson.

[MOtorboat]

They are extending him. They are keeping him. The speculation about Harbaugh being on the hot seat was dependent on their continuing to suck and not make the playoffs. The Ravens are 9-6 right now and a game up on the Steelers in the Central. They win at home against the Brown and they're in the playoffs. Their defense is pretty good. Cleveland, despite the arrival of Baker Mayfield is still 7-7-1. They've gone from awful to mediocre. But, they're on the road against that defense and that crowd with the playoffs on the line. He's not getting fired.

I'd say probably even if they lose that game he's not getting fired. Adam Scheffter said so pretty much on Denver talk radio last week. He said he hasn't heard anything about Harbaugh getting fired. That's media speculation based on them possibly continuing to suck since they started the season 3-5. They are 6-1 the second half with their only loss coming to KC.

Baltimore announced their intention to extend him. There’s been no indication of whether or not he wants to stay.

[UnderArmour]

Joe Flacco is under contract for 2019 for $18,500,000 in base salary and an $8,000,000 bonus due that year. That money is guaranteed (if you want him to play under his contract).

Of course the Ravens could void the contract, in which case they would suffer a ginormous, gigantine, Brobdingnagian Monstrosity of a Cap Hit, to the tune of $16million. They would want any team intending to trade for Flacco to take that cap hit themselves or at least part of it, which makes Flacco even less affordable and thus undesireable.

I'd say unless Baltimore is willing to eat the cap hit I would never trade for him at all regardless of how little they might want for him in terms of a draft pick or player.

And that is regardless of how you view his talent level after losing his job to Lamar Jackson.

You absolutely trade for him, because if he hits the open market, all bets are off. The Bengals could cut Dalton, with $0 dead cap, and throw whatever contract they wanted at him. And they would. Tampa same thing with Jameis. Jacksonville, Miami, and arguably Denver flat-out cannot afford a QB for more than what Flacco is making right now, so that leaves EVERY QB-needy team desperate for a QB at Flacco's current price. He will not be cut; it is going to be a trade. And Baltimore will earn minimum a 3rd rounder for him.

[Poet]

Trading for an average at best QB with this roster is insane, though. If going down that route was smart, you'd be right. But if Elway wanted to do that he would be truly incompetent and unworthy of the position.

[Simple Jaded]

They are extending him. They are keeping him. The speculation about Harbaugh being on the hot seat was dependent on their continuing to suck and not make the playoffs. The Ravens are 9-6 right now and a game up on the Steelers in the Central. They win at home against the Brown and they're in the playoffs. Their defense is pretty good. Cleveland, despite the arrival of Baker Mayfield is still 7-7-1. They've gone from awful to mediocre. But, they're on the road against that defense and that crowd with the playoffs on the line. He's not getting fired.

I'd say probably even if they lose that game he's not getting fired. Adam Scheffter said so pretty much on Denver talk radio last week. He said he hasn't heard anything about Harbaugh getting fired. That's media speculation based on them possibly continuing to suck since they started the season 3-5. They are 6-1 the second half with their only loss coming to KC.

Per Peter King, I’m sure he’d like to compare notes with you.

[Simple Jaded]

If we pickup Flacco we’re going to be in the same middling spot of 8-8, 9-7 that’s why most of us don’t want Flacco. He changes nothing for us....

Flacco is legitimately the “competent” starter “that most of us” convinced ourselves that Keenum was when he was supposedly the steal of the century, so if Flacco changes nothing that says more about where the rest of the team is. People were actually saying Keenum was an upgrade over PFM in his final season. El oh el

Flacco might actually be that, an upgrade over the Ghost Of PFM.

If both Flacco and Keenum go on the trading block only one of them will fetch a draft pick, I’m thinking the NFL community would much rather take Flacco.

Btw, 8-8 is the most important thing around here.

[Elevation inc]

Flacco is legitimately the “competent” starter “that most of us” convinced ourselves that Keenum was when he was supposedly the steal of the century, so if Flacco changes nothing that says more about where the rest of the team is. People were actually saying Keenum was an upgrade over PFM in his final season. El oh el

Flacco might actually be that, an upgrade over the Ghost Of PFM.

If both Flacco and Keenum go on the trading block only one of them will fetch a draft pick, I’m thinking the NFL community would much rather take Flacco.

Btw, 8-8 is the most important thing around here.


But that’s just it he isn’t. He got Benched for a dude everyone said wasn’t ready. You all are crazy with this Flacco talk. He sucks he hasn’t been good since his Super Bowl year, and he is no where close to a leader or fighter we need. There were reports out of TC that he finally looked good and was making a effort to show he was the guy. Bottom line he got paid mailed it in, they drafted his replacement he puffed his chest out then his lack of talent showed and he got benched... why would I want that medicority in Denver at a higher cost, it’s already here and cheaper

[Simple Jaded]

If Flacco is mediocre that an upgrade, fact is, he’s a legitimate NFL starter ... Broncos haven’t had one of them for 3-4 years.

[Poet]

If Flacco is mediocre that an upgrade, fact is, he’s a legitimate NFL starter ... Broncos haven’t had one of them for 3-4 years.

He's too low production these days my man. Look at his game logs this year. I don't think he falls in with what you are looking for.

[Simple Jaded]

He's too low production these days my man. Look at his game logs this year. I don't think he falls in with what you are looking for.

Oh, well maybe he just needs Mr Young Innovative OC so he could come into his own.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Jaded is right. We would have made the playoffs with Flacco.

[Poet]

Jaded is right. We would have made the playoffs with Flacco.

He played like 8 games whit 12 TDs and 6 picks.

He is basically backup level right now.

[UnderArmour]

He played like 8 games whit 12 TDs and 6 picks.

He is basically backup level right now.

Lamar Jackson has to run the football as much as he does because the receivers cannot get separation. Very little skill position talent on that team.

[Poet]

Lamar Jackson has to run the football as much as he does because the receivers cannot get separation. Very little skill position talent on that team.

He's also a raw rookie and not a great passing QB, even when he was in college. I think you're giving Flacco a gift here.

[UnderArmour]

He's also a raw rookie and not a great passing QB, even when he was in college. I think you're giving Flacco a gift here.

Probably. I also still have scars from the guy burning us when he had Torey Smith and Jacoby Jones.

[Poet]

Probably. I also still have scars from the guy burning us when he had Torey Smith and Jacoby Jones.

It was a shitty dream that turned into a nightmare.

[UnderArmour]

It was a shitty dream that turned into a nightmare.

Unfortunately, it wasn't a dream. Thankfully, the name on the back of #26 turned from Moore into the name of someone that can actually serve as a last line of defense, and the Broncos won in 2015.

[Simple Jaded]

He played like 8 games whit 12 TDs and 6 picks.

He is basically backup level right now.

Weeeeeeell maybe he just needs Mr Young Supercalafragalisticexpealidocious Innovator OC, did ya ever think of that?

[Poet]

Weeeeeeell maybe he just needs Mr Young Supercalafragalisticexpealidocious Innovator OC, did ya ever think of that?

Old dogs...er Ravens....new tricks and all.

[Simple Jaded]

Old dogs...er Ravens....new tricks and all.

Yeah but it took Keenum 16 NFL seasons to come into his own, Flacco is due.

[Poet]

Yeah but it took Keenum 16 NFL seasons to come into his own, Flacco is due.

Good point. The Ravens are fools to give him up!

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Peyton sitting on a face is not ok if the face he sat on did not want him to do so.

But I get people will think that's nonsense so I tried to link it to a military situation that people can relate with, yet highlights the same mechanism in the brain in different situations

Not to mention that PMs accuser has been involved in countless lawsuits. She loses credibility over time based in her behaviors and income strategy

[Valar Morghulis]

Not to mention that PMs accuser has been involved in countless lawsuits. She loses credibility over time based in her behaviors and income strategy

Countless?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Countless?

Yes...she made some outrageous accusations a few years back and there was a story that uncovered she made a habit of suing just about everyone she ever had contact with...obviously a bit of an exaggeration. IIRC the lawsuit count was double digits

[SmilinAssasSin27]

http://www.bsndenver.com/the-mind-blowing-truth-about-peyton-mannings-accuser/

[Poet]

Humans are garbage.

[Northman]

There are certainly bad situations where sexism and improper behavior exists but i dont see that in Manning's case.

[Valar Morghulis]

There are certainly bad situations where sexism and improper behavior exists but i dont see that in Manning's case.

I think the fact his team mate refused to back his story up is weird - but since i wasn't there and only read about the incident - i honestly don't feel able to pass judgement on his guilt or innocence

As for the accuser - i am not saying that all victims are angels that are beyond reproach, some victims are damaged or shitty people or both. It is just a shame when their character flaws get used to mitigate or excuse the abusive/predatory behavior of others.

[Simple Jaded]

I think the fact his team mate refused to back his story up is weird - but since i wasn't there and only read about the incident - i honestly don't feel able to pass judgement on his guilt or innocence

As for the accuser - i am not saying that all victims are angels that are beyond reproach, some victims are damaged or shitty people or both. It is just a shame when their character flaws get used to mitigate or excuse the abusive/predatory behavior of others.
Her face was right there, who among us isn’t going to give her some beefstew?

[Valar Morghulis]

Her face was right there, who among us isn’t going to give her some beefstew?

You are the single worst human being on the planet.

[Poet]

You are the single worst human being on the planet.

Greg Hardy exists.

[Simple Jaded]

You are the single worst human being on the planet.

I get that a lot.

[Valar Morghulis]

Greg Hardy exists.

Second to Jaded

[Simple Jaded]

Greg Hardy exists.


He’s a *****.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I think the fact his team mate refused to back his story up is weird - but since i wasn't there and only read about the incident - i honestly don't feel able to pass judgement on his guilt or innocence

As for the accuser - i am not saying that all victims are angels that are beyond reproach, some victims are damaged or shitty people or both. It is just a shame when their character flaws get used to mitigate or excuse the abusive/predatory behavior of others.

Unless those character flaws are what lead to BS accusations. As you said, we weren't there. I just choose to follow to follow the behaviors. PM has never had any allegations before or after. This specific accuser has an extensive history of accusations. She also violated conditions of a settlement when she ran out of money. In this case I'm glad her flaws are exposed. She leans more to the side of predator than victim.

[Gimpygod]

I heard Case Keenum got a cup for water at the Chinese place and poured soda in it.
That is funny I don’t care who you are! If you don’t get 5 high fives based on on hilarity alone I call racism! More on topic what about one of the quarterbacks from Philadelphia as Keenum replacement?

[BroncoJoe]

King87 should be released. Cancer to the team.

[Poet]

King87 should be released. Cancer to the team.

I know you don't like me as a Denver fan, Joe. I'm sorry you don't like it. Don't worry, I won't be around when school starts up again.

[Hawgdriver]

King87 should be released. Cancer to the team.

He's in pain.

We all cope differently.

[Simple Jaded]

I know you don't like me as a Denver fan, Joe. I'm sorry you don't like it. Don't worry, I won't be around when school starts up again.

Dude you can post while in classes.

[Poet]

He's in pain.

We all cope differently.

I don't trust nobody
I don't love nobody
I don't believe in nobody but me, I can't lose.
No moves forward will be funny
and I never let myself down
How so? Because I don't expect too much from me.

__________________________________________________ ___________

I just have a vision of what I think the team should do, and the arguments against that vision aren't compelling to me.

[Poet]

Dude you can post while in classes.

It's hard to get away with "****** around and got styled on," in class.

[Simple Jaded]

King87 should be released. Cancer to the team.

He’s out Talib, don’t stop Talibing Joe. Damn yos!

[Simple Jaded]

It's hard to get away with "****** around and got styled on," in class.


Don’t sell yourself short, be the change you wanna see.

[Poet]

He’s out Talib, don’t stop Talibing Joe. Damn yos!

I'm as useful as Keenum - these dudes should love me!

[Simple Jaded]

I'm as useful as Keenum - these dudes should love me!

Si, but you have a neck and a cannon arm, it’s science.

[Poet]

Si, but you have a neck and a cannon arm, it’s science.

Catch you on the flip side Jaded. Stay Jaded.

[Simple Jaded]

Catch you on the flip side Jaded. Stay Jaded.

Where the **** you think you’re going?

[Poet]

Where the **** you think you’re going?

:beer:

[Simple Jaded]

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/11233/jim-bob-cooter

Billy Joe Jimmy Bob I available.

[Jsteve01]

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/11233/jim-bob-cooter

Billy Joe Jimmy Bob I available.

Why is he so hot this year? That offense definitely wasn't anything special this year.

[Poet]

Why is he so hot this year? That offense definitely wasn't anything special this year.

Past performances, maybe?

[Jsteve01]

Fangio as HC and Koetter at OC. You guys know my position. Guys who are fantastic coordinators and have flamed out at head coach so we don't have to worry about losing them after a few years cuz they're the hot young flavor of the month.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Fangio too old. Yes Ageism alive and well. Gimme youngster with fresh ideas.

[Poet]

Fangio too old. Yes Ageism alive and well. Gimme youngster with fresh ideas.

:salute:

[Hawgdriver]

Don’t sell yourself short, be the change you wanna see.

Pennies and nickels? That's what Gandhi meant, right?

[Poet]

Don’t sell yourself short, be the change you wanna see.

:coffee:

[Northman]

I think the fact his team mate refused to back his story up is weird - but since i wasn't there and only read about the incident - i honestly don't feel able to pass judgement on his guilt or innocence

As for the accuser - i am not saying that all victims are angels that are beyond reproach, some victims are damaged or shitty people or both. It is just a shame when their character flaws get used to mitigate or excuse the abusive/predatory behavior of others.

Well, all i will say is if he was guilty of something she didnt help her case by all the other actions she has done. Is it unfair to hold that against her in case she was right? Yea, probably. But i think those are the risks you take when crying wolf about other things and i just find her history with suing people very problematic for my liking.

[Valar Morghulis]

Well, all i will say is if he was guilty of something she didnt help her case by all the other actions she has done. Is it unfair to hold that against her in case she was right? Yea, probably. But i think those are the risks you take when crying wolf about other things and i just find her history with suing people very problematic for my liking.

i don't disagree with the reality of this!

[Simple Jaded]

Pennies and nickels? That's what Gandhi meant, right?

Thought that was Michael Jackson?

I’m starting with the man in the mirror.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Thought that was Michael Jackson?

I’m starting with the man in the mirror.

Hopefully you’re asking him to change his ways.

[nevcraw]

Thought that was Michael Jackson?

I’m starting with the man in the mirror.

Wait wasn’t he just in the bird Box?

[Hawgdriver]

Wait wasn’t he just in the bird Box?

Yeah. But we let him out.

[NightTerror218]

So many hot takes on this team being in a rebuild. Honestly we're we're 1 score in 6 games from making the playoffs. I also feel we also were fortunate to have some games end in our favor. 10 games were decided but 7 points or less. I think more problems were around the coaching staff rather than the team. Obviously we have issues on offense but I think more problems had to do with game plans and utilizing strengths, So coaching issues. I think a good coaching staff could make is easily a 10 win team with current team.

I think some high cap players will be gone and some young players will chase the money and leave. But as for a rebuild I don't see that happening. We obviously have a weakness under center but I think a good OC can game plan to his strengths and minimize mistakes. Our young players need to develop better. Parks has developed nicely, 23 point gain in his pff rating from last year to this year. Sutton needs to develop more, with sanders gone and thrown into #1 spotlight he was not ready. Going young is not what this team needs. We already have one of the youngest rosters.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

So many hot takes on this team being in a rebuild. Honestly we're we're 1 score in 6 games from making the playoffs. I also feel we also were fortunate to have some games end in our favor. 10 games were decided but 7 points or less. I think more problems were around the coaching staff rather than the team. Obviously we have issues on offense but I think more problems had to do with game plans and utilizing strengths, So coaching issues. I think a good coaching staff could make is easily a 10 win team with current team.

I think some high cap players will be gone and some young players will chase the money and leave. But as for a rebuild I don't see that happening. We obviously have a weakness under center but I think a good OC can game plan to his strengths and minimize mistakes. Our young players need to develop better. Parks has developed nicely, 23 point gain in his pff rating from last year to this year. Sutton needs to develop more, with sanders gone and thrown into #1 spotlight he was not ready. Going young is not what this team needs. We already have one of the youngest rosters.

You’re so passionate about what you’re saying you stuttered in your second sentence.

[Poet]

So many hot takes on this team being in a rebuild. Honestly we're we're 1 score in 6 games from making the playoffs. I also feel we also were fortunate to have some games end in our favor. 10 games were decided but 7 points or less. I think more problems were around the coaching staff rather than the team. Obviously we have issues on offense but I think more problems had to do with game plans and utilizing strengths, So coaching issues. I think a good coaching staff could make is easily a 10 win team with current team.

I think some high cap players will be gone and some young players will chase the money and leave. But as for a rebuild I don't see that happening. We obviously have a weakness under center but I think a good OC can game plan to his strengths and minimize mistakes. Our young players need to develop better. Parks has developed nicely, 23 point gain in his pff rating from last year to this year. Sutton needs to develop more, with sanders gone and thrown into #1 spotlight he was not ready. Going young is not what this team needs. We already have one of the youngest rosters.

That's actually the mark of a bad team - being unable to close out games. We also lost games we shouldn't have won, and won games because the opponent shat the bed. The Steelers beat the Steelers, for instance.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

We need to get Hamilton at least 5-6 targets per game. He might be the best wr we have right now. He was greatly underutilized in the last half of the season, especially after ES went down.

[Magnificent Seven]

John Elway on possibly trading Von Miller: 'We have to look at all the possibilities.

Former Broncos offensive lineman Mark Schlereth was scoffed at on Twitter earlier this week when he suggested the team should trade outside linebacker Von Miller.

Though such a move would not go over well in Broncos Country, the suggestion may not be as farfetched as we originally thought.

“I think we’re going to visit all that,” general manager John Elway said during his end-of-season press conference on Dec. 31 when asked if the team will consider trading Miller. “I think we have to look at all the possibilities and get an evaluation of that.”

Elway certainly didn’t rule out the possibility of trading Miller, but he also talked about the linebacker playing under the team’s new coach.

“We’re trying to evaluate what went on and then find solutions,” Elway said. “One of the solutions is that we’re going to need our core guys to play better. Von, he had a good year this year.

“Can Von play better? Yeah, I think Von can play better. That’s part of the new thing when that comes in with the next coach.”

The Oakland Raiders traded edge defender Khalil Mack, a second-round pick and a conditional fifth-round pick to the Chicago Bears in exchange for two first-round picks, a third-round pick and a sixth-round pick last offseason.

Miller is nearly two years older than Mack but Denver could likely get similar draft capital for him in a trade. And while it seems unlikely that the Broncos would actually move on from Miller, it’s worth noting that Elway did not shoot down the question right away.

Miller is set to earn a base salary of $17 million in 2019 and salaries of $17.5 million in 2020 and 2021 before becoming a free agent in 2022. The 29-year-old edge defender recorded 14.5 sacks in 2018.

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/04/denver-broncos-news-john-elway-did-not-rule-out-von-miller-trade/?fbclid=IwAR0DVlZxO6wr-rhs0EzA9wf7urYl_NBVdQJe5o-FNGK5DWf-_XTNVpz8i1k

[UnderArmour]

We need to get Hamilton at least 5-6 targets per game. He might be the best wr we have right now. He was greatly underutilized in the last half of the season, especially after ES went down.

Hard to say. Under VJ and his staff, Wednesday and Thursday practices were the real games, so maybe Keenum and Sutton are Pro Bowlers next year.

[UnderArmour]

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/04/denver-broncos-news-john-elway-did-not-rule-out-von-miller-trade/?fbclid=IwAR0DVlZxO6wr-rhs0EzA9wf7urYl_NBVdQJe5o-FNGK5DWf-_XTNVpz8i1k

I'm not reading too much into this. Lots of GMs take this stance.

[Magnificent Seven]

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/04/denver-broncos-news-john-elway-did-not-rule-out-von-miller-trade/?fbclid=IwAR0DVlZxO6wr-rhs0EzA9wf7urYl_NBVdQJe5o-FNGK5DWf-_XTNVpz8i1k

Mark Schlereth should be checked for CTE...

[NightTerror218]

That's actually the mark of a bad team - being unable to close out games. We also lost games we shouldn't have won, and won games because the opponent shat the bed. The Steelers beat the Steelers, for instance.

That is why I think it's coaching. Some of those games were mind boggling decisions by VJ that cost us games.

[TXBRONC]

I'm not reading too much into this. Lots of GMs take this stance.

Agreed. It means nothing until another team makes a legitimate offer.

[Poet]

That is why I think it's coaching. Some of those games were mind boggling decisions by VJ that cost us games.

Coaching doesn't get us more than one good cornerback, nor does it net us even one good safety. It doesn't get us an ILB, let alone two, who can cover anyone. It doesn't get us a good pass rush push on the defensive line, either.

The line was average. Not good. Not bad. Average. The passing game was putrid. We have no tight ends.

This is a bad roster. A good coach might salvage eight wins from this team. But when I say good, I don't mean like Mike Tomlin inflated record because of the organization he coaches at good. Nor do I mean a nice fill in for the year ala Gregg Williams. I mean a good coach, a really good one.

This roster sucked ass. It still sucks ass. Luckily we saw enough from VJ to know that it wasn't just the roster.

[Northman]

Coaching doesn't get us more than one good cornerback, nor does it net us even one good safety. It doesn't get us an ILB, let alone two, who can cover anyone. It doesn't get us a good pass rush push on the defensive line, either.

The line was average. Not good. Not bad. Average. The passing game was putrid. We have no tight ends.

This is a bad roster. A good coach might salvage eight wins from this team. But when I say good, I don't mean like Mike Tomlin inflated record because of the organization he coaches at good. Nor do I mean a nice fill in for the year ala Gregg Williams. I mean a good coach, a really good one.

This roster sucked ass. It still sucks ass. Luckily we saw enough from VJ to know that it wasn't just the roster.


No, but he does have a point. We lost some close games that were easily winnable and with better coaching may have won some of them this year.

[Cugel]

Coaching doesn't get us more than one good cornerback, nor does it net us even one good safety. It doesn't get us an ILB, let alone two, who can cover anyone. It doesn't get us a good pass rush push on the defensive line, either.

The line was average. Not good. Not bad. Average. The passing game was putrid. We have no tight ends.

This is a bad roster. A good coach might salvage eight wins from this team. But when I say good, I don't mean like Mike Tomlin inflated record because of the organization he coaches at good. Nor do I mean a nice fill in for the year ala Gregg Williams. I mean a good coach, a really good one.

This roster sucked ass. It still sucks ass. Luckily we saw enough from VJ to know that it wasn't just the roster.

Dammit King! I hate it when I have to totally agree with you. :tsk:

It does suck ass. According to Troy Renk, they are now getting rid of
Shaqil Barrett (the guy the Browns wanted in trade for Joe Thomas remember),

Shane Ray (the first rounder they thought would be a pass rushing tandem for Von until the drafted Chubb and then he became a game day inactive)

Brandon Marshall (who lost his playing time to Joey Jewell)

CB Trumaine Brock

Domato Pecko (UFA)

Bradley Roby (UFA)

And it could be more on defense depending on who the new coach wants to keep.

On offense then need to rebuild the OL (again for the 5th straight year). They need a RT, possibly a C and two G's.

Oh, and a starting QB who doesn't suck.

I'd say its at least a 2 year rebuilding project. If they are lucky. Possibly 3 years since they won't even be able to find a QB in this year's draft in all probability since it's a suck ass year for QBs in the draft (according to Adam Schefter who should know since he talks to NFL GMs every day).

[Poet]

No, but he does have a point. We lost some close games that were easily winnable and with better coaching may have won some of them this year.

Oh, I agree with that. I think an excellent coach gets this team to eight wins. I mean, if this team had Belichick, and played in the lousy AFCE, it'd be a ten win team.

[BeefStew25]

John Fox coached Tebow to a playoff win.

[MOtorboat]

John Fox coached Tebow to a playoff win.

John Fox and Mike McCoy were ******* brilliant that year.

[Simple Jaded]

Shaq Barrett has always been overrated.

[NightTerror218]

Oh, I agree with that. I think an excellent coach gets this team to eight wins. I mean, if this team had Belichick, and played in the lousy AFCE, it'd be a ten win team.

We have one of the youngest rosters in the NFL. These dudes just need to develop. We need a couple new defensive starters, ILB, NT and corner. Offensive side of ball did you forget we lost 2 starters to injury and had a patchwork line. QBsucks, we are set at RB, need a TE and a we have a young WR group. This is not a 2 season rebuild. It's a fix the defensive scheme and bring in a couple players on offense.

[Poet]

We have one of the youngest rosters in the NFL. These dudes just need to develop. We need a couple new defensive starters, ILB, NT and corner. Offensive side of ball did you forget we lost 2 starters to injury and had a patchwork line. QBsucks, we are set at RB, need a TE and a we have a young WR group. This is not a 2 season rebuild. It's a fix the defensive scheme and bring in a couple players on offense.

We have impending departures on the OL. We need a third RB. We need several TEs. We need more wideouts because Sanders isn't young, he could decline because of that injury, and we're banking a lot on the youngster Wrs. Maybe a veteran FA pickup makes sense there.

The defense needs a lot of work, too. We have one legitimate corner. We don't really have good safeties. We have massive holes at ILB, and Jewell isn't a definitive answer, at least right now, if ever. Morever, we need depth at the DL, and a lot of it. Thank god for Shelby Harris.

The QB hole is massive, too. We need a roster to keep up with a Chargers team that won what, 11 or 12 games and the Chiefs, which are at worst a regular season juggernaut team.

This isn't an average NFL roster. :salute:

[nevcraw]

I’m sorry (he’s way Up there as one of my all time fav broncos) but if we needed to trade Von to land a top end qb in trade or draft I wouldn’t blink an eye. In fact no one in this team at this point is sacred. CH too. He and Von are hitting 30. And injuries will only begin to mount...
don’t know this a draft to do this but def worth exploring any and all of these options to an NFC team.

[nevcraw]

We have impending departures on the OL. We need a third RB. We need several TEs. We need more wideouts because Sanders isn't young, he could decline because of that injury, and we're banking a lot on the youngster Wrs. Maybe a veteran FA pickup makes sense there.

The defense needs a lot of work, too. We have one legitimate corner. We don't really have good safeties. We have massive holes at ILB, and Jewell isn't a definitive answer, at least right now, if ever. Morever, we need depth at the DL, and a lot of it. Thank god for Shelby Harris.

The QB hole is massive, too. We need a roster to keep up with a Chargers team that won what, 11 or 12 games and the Chiefs, which are at worst a regular season juggernaut team.

This isn't an average NFL roster. :salute:

Need another solid 2 drafts and some serious under the radar FA’s to stick. The roaster isn’t very good right now but I think It could be better within 2. A lot will look better if we had a QB. Averaging 20 points on offense - sucks. And 16 in the last 3 games.
Gotta draft a stud corner and get one in FA. New ILB starter and the OL needs 3-4 new guys.
Depth everywhere else fo sho.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Am I the only one who believes we aren't total trash? We were in a groove until ES and CH went down and likely beat KC if not for a 42 second play clock. Our youth at WR and RB emerged and showed out. Improve the line, get a CB and DT and get that QB. I think we're better than most believe

[BroncoJoe]

Am I the only one who believes we aren't total trash? We were in a groove until ES and CH went down and likely beat KC if not for a 42 second play clock. Our youth at WR and RB emerged and showed out. Improve the line, get a CB and DT and get that QB. I think we're better than most believe

We do need depth, but I like our roster ATM.

(other than a couple positions, like QB...)

[nevcraw]

Am I the only one who believes we aren't total trash? We were in a groove until ES and CH went down and likely beat KC if not for a 42 second play clock. Our youth at WR and RB emerged and showed out. Improve the line, get a CB and DT and get that QB. I think we're better than most believe

LT, RT, center, 1-2 guards and then all of the other stuff. It’s a lot.

[turftoad]

Am I the only one who believes we aren't total trash? We were in a groove until ES and CH went down and likely beat KC if not for a 42 second play clock. Our youth at WR and RB emerged and showed out. Improve the line, get a CB and DT and get that QB. I think we're better than most believe

And a stud run stuffing ILB.

[BroncoJoe]

LT, RT, center, 1-2 guards and then all of the other stuff. It’s a lot.

OL was better than people give credit for.

[turftoad]

LT, RT, center, 1-2 guards and then all of the other stuff. It’s a lot.

A stud LT and move Bolles to RT would be a good recipe.

[nevcraw]

OL was better than people give credit for.

For a game or 2 yes but mostly Inconsistent as hell. Either way most of those dudes are FA or question marks / injured etc. going into 2019.

[nevcraw]

A stud LT and move Bolles to RT would be a good recipe.

Yah so he can hold with his other hand... you know even it out.. :lol:

[BroncoJoe]

For a game or 2 yes but mostly Inconsistent as hell. Either way most of those dudes are FA or question marks / injured etc. going into 2019.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

[MOtorboat]

And a stud run stuffing ILB.

I’d agree that ILB needs to be a focus, but I think a faster ILB is in need, rather than a run stuffer. Covering tight ends should be an emphasis in the offseason.

[Jsteve01]

Am I the only one who believes we aren't total trash? We were in a groove until ES and CH went down and likely beat KC if not for a 42 second play clock. Our youth at WR and RB emerged and showed out. Improve the line, get a CB and DT and get that QB. I think we're better than most believe

Im with you. I was just going to call Kinger for stating our need for a third running back as being one of our problems. I think everybody is always rotating out third-stringersso that to me is not a huge concern.

[Poet]

Im with you. I was just going to call Kinger for stating our need for a third running back as being one of our problems. I think everybody is always rotating out third-stringersso that to me is not a huge concern.

Our best back is small and just got a serious injury. Our next best back is a power back. A totally different back. Our third back is a guy who will probably be gone.

So, how, pray tell, do you call out a person for saying a team in our situation needs another legitimate back, especially when teams have four or five RB's often?

Think before you post. Because even if we had three legit backs we'd still want another just for the injury 30 got.

[Simple Jaded]

OL was better than people give credit for.

Meh, it was coached better, they’re still garbage. Scrubs and rejects, mostly.

[Poet]

Meh, it was coached better, they’re still garbage. Scrubs and rejects, mostly.

It was middle of the pack. I hate to break this to you, but OL talent in the NFL is dwindling because of college schemes. That's another reason why teams are incorporating more college offense into the league. You're going to see fewer and fewer elite lines in the league. Fewer good lines. In fact, what will be considered good now will be of lower quality than before.

Those talents and rejects played pretty well.

[Jsteve01]

Im with you. I was just going to call Kinger for stating our need for a third running back as being one of our problems. I think everybody is always rotating out third-stringersso that to me is not a huge concern.

Our best back is small and just got a serious injury. Our next best back is a power back. A totally different back. Our third back is a guy who will probably be gone.

So, how, pray tell, do you call out a person for saying a team in our situation needs another legitimate back, especially when teams have four or five RB's often?

Think before you post. Because even if we had three legit backs we'd still want another just for the injury 30 got.

King I don't care what you say. When youre listing our third running back as being your big roster problem. You're overstating the issue. Plain and simple. Freeman was dinged up this year. He looks to be a potential bell-cow back. He's not just a power back. Go back and watch the guy run in college. He's running 4.5 at 235 lbs. He's elusive. He's got good vision. He's good in the passing game both as a receiver and as a Blocker. In all honesty I still see him as the long-term number one back as much as I like Lindsay.

[Jsteve01]

And a stud run stuffing ILB.

I’d agree that ILB needs to be a focus, but I think a faster ILB is in need, rather than a run stuffer. Covering tight ends should be an emphasis in the offseason.

It's been an issue since we let both of the Kentucky linebackers go.

[Poet]

Can I don't care what you say. When your listing our third running back is being your big roster problem. You're overstating the issue. Plain and simple. Freeman was dinged up this year. He looks to be a potential bell-cow back. He's not just a power back. Go back and watch the guy run in college. He's running for five at 235 lbs. He's elusive. He's got good vision. He's good in the passing game both as a receiver and as a Blocker. In all honesty I still see him as the long-term number one back as much as I like Lindsay.

It's a big problem when the BEST PLAYER on the offense is small and already injured. I'm sorry you can't take the concept of depth and apply it to a situation that this team has. Look at what you just posted man. The big back was dinged up. That's the point. RB's get dinged up. Also, I put that in a LONG list of issues wiht the team. Singling it out is honestly insane, especially when it has merit.

[Simple Jaded]

It was middle of the pack. I hate to break this to you, but OL talent in the NFL is dwindling because of college schemes. That's another reason why teams are incorporating more college offense into the league. You're going to see fewer and fewer elite lines in the league. Fewer good lines. In fact, what will be considered good now will be of lower quality than before.

Those talents and rejects played pretty well.

Shit, tell me about it. I’m an OL honk.

But just because talent is dwindling it doesn’t mean you stop trying to get better.

“Meh” isn’t the goal, I despise “good enough”, especially when you’re either going to have a rookie or Case Yates starting.

This also becomes an issue when a players contract runs out, if talent is dwindling I see absolutely ZERO ****ing reason to pay going rate for an average player in today’s day/age. Nobody on this OL deserves a lucrative extension, let them walk.

And since that is the case you’re arguing then they will need no less than 3 new starters. Paradis, Leary and Veldheer.

[Poet]

Stop trying to get better? **** no. I'm just saying the line this year was solid. That's all.

[dogfish]

We have one of the youngest rosters in the NFL. These dudes just need to develop. We need a couple new defensive starters, ILB, NT and corner. Offensive side of ball did you forget we lost 2 starters to injury and had a patchwork line. QBsucks, we are set at RB, need a TE and a we have a young WR group. This is not a 2 season rebuild. It's a fix the defensive scheme and bring in a couple players on offense.


Am I the only one who believes we aren't total trash? We were in a groove until ES and CH went down and likely beat KC if not for a 42 second play clock. Our youth at WR and RB emerged and showed out. Improve the line, get a CB and DT and get that QB. I think we're better than most believe

this roster is fine. . . it needs needs a quarterback, mainly. . .

i'm not convinced we can get a good one this year. . . if the FO thinks they can, they'll make the move. . . otherwise, that makes it a great year to try to fill our other top holes with quality talent-- namely a number two corner, and another offensive tackle. . . there are secondary need at ILB and D-line, but we also have some young players there who may be ready for bigger roles. . . if they don't want domata back, they can probably find another early down run-plugger in FA without breaking the bank. . . and they will have money to spend. . . want to trade out roby for another vet corner? fine. . . let paradis walk and use that money elsewhere? fine. . . move on from darian stewart and brandon marshall? excellent. . .

i'm very bullish as to how good the young wideouts are going to be next year. . . we weren't BAD at receiver this year, we were just super young. . . we weren't even terrible at TE when heuerman/butt/lacosse was the rotation. . . agree completely w/ steve about freeman-- he's a good back who was underutilized because our coaches were desperate, and wanted to run the wheels off lindsay. . . we have some pieces on offense-- we need to develop them, and find a coach who's smart enough to deploy them correctly. . .

fill a few of the most egregious holes in FA, prioritize the secondary and the O-line in the draft (with an eye out for Dl, ILB and TE as well), and target a mid-round developmental QB you like. . . you have high slots in every round, make the most of them like last year. . . and draft a team captain with every damn pick, just to piss jaded off. . . :laugh: boom!

[dogfish]

Shit, tell me about it. I’m an OL honk.

But just because talent is dwindling it doesn’t mean you stop trying to get better.

“Meh” isn’t the goal, I despise “good enough”, especially when you’re either going to have a rookie or Case Yates starting.

This also becomes an issue when a players contract runs out, if talent is dwindling I see absolutely ZERO ****ing reason to pay going rate for an average player in today’s day/age. Nobody on this OL deserves a lucrative extension, let them walk.

And since that is the case you’re arguing then they will need no less than 3 new starters. Paradis, Leary and Veldheer.

i'm not in love with the idea, but i can see them maybe wanting to bring veldheer back for another year. . . i do hope they keep kugler-- he did a solid job getting the most out of a very pedestrian group, and continuity matters. . .

[Jsteve01]

Can I don't care what you say. When your listing our third running back is being your big roster problem. You're overstating the issue. Plain and simple. Freeman was dinged up this year. He looks to be a potential bell-cow back. He's not just a power back. Go back and watch the guy run in college. He's running for five at 235 lbs. He's elusive. He's got good vision. He's good in the passing game both as a receiver and as a Blocker. In all honesty I still see him as the long-term number one back as much as I like Lindsay.

It's a big problem when the BEST PLAYER on the offense is small and already injured. I'm sorry you can't take the concept of depth and apply it to a situation that this team has. Look at what you just posted man. The big back was dinged up. That's the point. RB's get dinged up. Also, I put that in a LONG list of issues wiht the team. Singling it out is honestly insane, especially when it has merit.

3rd string running back isnt hard to find king. Thats my point. Should have been williams or hendo