Kiszla: Just lose, baby. Broncos can count on Vance Joseph to mess it up, as coach did again against Texans.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

In this football season, it’s all over except the tanking for the Broncos. Vance Joseph is just the man for the job. His coaching hurts on the field, but promises to help Denver in the NFL draft.

“I don’t have a problem with how we’re coaching and how we’re playing. We’ve got to finish games better,” Joseph said Sunday, after the Broncos lost, 19-17, to Houston.

Can I get somebody to second that motion? Or does Joseph need to buy a vowel and get a clue to solve this puzzle called football?

rest - https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/04/broncos-texans-vance-joseph-mark-kiszla/

[LawDog]

Any legitimate reason for Elway not to fire Radio today?

[Hawgdriver]

Any legitimate reason for Elway not to fire Radio today?

Outside shot at playoffs.

[LawDog]

Outside shot at playoffs.

So, let's assume that's legitimate. They get to the wildcard game and lose (because no one is going to argue they get past that first game), what then? What possible benefit is that? That's worse than tanking the season.

[Elevation inc]

So, let's assume that's legitimate. They get to the wildcard game and lose (because no one is going to argue they get past that first game), what then? What possible benefit is that? That's worse than tanking the season.

I disagree, you play this game to get to the dance, even if its a wildcard you still got a shot to get lucky and catch fire. I will never be pissed about making it to the playoffs...

[Shazam!]

There is no way in hell this team is gonna make a run under VJ. He isnt capable.

[Jsteve01]

There is no way in hell this team is gonna make a run under VJ. He isnt capable.

Worst part is that this team is performing despite the staff. Have to wonder what could be under a legitimately good staff. Also the worst part is that it will be a big risl to go after the young mastermind that we really need because consecutive bad staffs will put is in football purgatory

[dogfish]

Worst part is that this team is performing despite the staff.

IMO, that's the best part. . . replacing a coaching staff is a hell of a lot easier than turning over most of your roster. . .

[Jsteve01]

Worst part is that this team is performing despite the staff.

IMO, that's the best part. . . replacing a coaching staff is a hell of a lot easier than turning over most of your roster. . .

Good point dog

[Cugel]

So, let's assume that's legitimate. They get to the wildcard game and lose (because no one is going to argue they get past that first game), what then? What possible benefit is that? That's worse than tanking the season.

Agreed. That actually happened to the Chefs a few years ago, and Buffalo and the Titans too.

Fortunately, it's also quite impossible for the Broncos to win 6 out of 7 which is what it would take at a minimum to get into the playoffs. Just try and imagine this team suddenly going on a roll like that and beating the Chargers twice, the Steelers and the Bengals.

You know that's never going to happen. Nobody has to argue you into that realization, including me. You already know it if you've watched any Broncos games this year.

[Cugel]

Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Jsteve01 View Post
Worst part is that this team is performing despite the staff.
IMO, that's the best part. . . replacing a coaching staff is a hell of a lot easier than turning over most of your roster. . .

They're turning over most of the roster too, starting with drafting a QB.

2019 UFAs: Jared Veldheer UFA - Domata Peko DT UFA - Tramaine Brock CB UFA - Shaquil Barrett OLB UFA - Matt Paradis C UFA - Shane Ray OLB UFA - Billy Turner G UFA - Bradley Roby CB UFA - Zach Kerr DE UFA - Adam-Pacman Jones CB UFA - Shamarko Thomas SS UFA - Shelby Harris DE RFA - Jeff Heuerman TE UFA - Max Garcia G UFA - Kevin Hogan QB RFA - Casey Kreiter LS RFA - Jordan Taylor WR RFA - Jerrol Garcia-Williams ILB ERFA

Most of these guys will not be back. That list does not even include guys like Derek Wolfe, Brandon Marshall, and possibly Sanders, any or all of whom might be traded for draft picks.

If they are drafting a QB and starting over, and obviously they are, then there's no point in keeping a bunch of ageing veterans around who are taking up salary cap room. They're not going to compete for anything next year with a rookie QB anyway.

[underrated29]

They're turning over most of the roster too, starting with drafting a QB.

2019 UFAs: Jared Veldheer UFA - Domata Peko DT UFA - Tramaine Brock CB UFA - Shaquil Barrett OLB UFA - Matt Paradis C UFA - Shane Ray OLB UFA - Billy Turner G UFA - Bradley Roby CB UFA - Zach Kerr DE UFA - Adam-Pacman Jones CB UFA - Shamarko Thomas SS UFA - Shelby Harris DE RFA - Jeff Heuerman TE UFA - Max Garcia G UFA - Kevin Hogan QB RFA - Casey Kreiter LS RFA - Jordan Taylor WR RFA - Jerrol Garcia-Williams ILB ERFA

Most of these guys will not be back. That list does not even include guys like Derek Wolfe, Brandon Marshall, and possibly Sanders, any or all of whom might be traded for draft picks.

If they are drafting a QB and starting over, and obviously they are, then there's no point in keeping a bunch of ageing veterans around who are taking up salary cap room. They're not going to compete for anything next year with a rookie QB anyway.




Theyll keep:

Shaq
Shelby
Turner
IRman
Paradis


The rest are old or not that good anyway. Not a big deal. Marshall will be gone for sure. So will Dstew. We also will have almost 100 mil to play with in FA.

[Simple Jaded]

Yeah I’m starting to hope that they keep IRman.

[dogfish]

they're not going to let every single one of their free agents go!

:lol::lol:


come on, now. . . they will quite likely keep turner, peko, thomas, harris, heuerman, kreiter, and taylor. . . leaving you with maybe 15 guys who will be replaced. . . in other words, standard movement for an NFL off-season. . . it's cute how panicky some of you get when we lose a few games, though. . .

[Simple Jaded]

They should talk Ray into a one-year-prove-it-deal and have him get surgery immediately after the signing.

[dogfish]

They should talk Ray into a one-year-prove-it-deal and have him get surgery immediately after the signing.

it's a plan!

[Cugel]

Theyll keep:

Shaq
Shelby
Turner
IRman
Paradis

The rest are old or not that good anyway. Not a big deal. Marshall will be gone for sure. So will Dstew. We also will have almost 100 mil to play with in FA.

They would probably like to keep Paradis. But, his injury means that they will have to wait almost to FA to try and re-sign him and he probably won't want to do that since he's out for the year and just has to wait until FA hits to get a big payday.

Elway keeps stupidly refusing to re-sign his veterans BEFORE their last season, then tries to renegotiate in the middle of their last season. When Peyton was here the team was playing for SBs every year, so players were sometimes willing to do that.

When Peyton left, that stopped abruptly. Elway kept asking guys to take a "team friendly deal" to play in Denver, and they keep saying "no thanks!" Started with Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan in 2016 and hasn't stopped yet.

Why would Paradis want to play for a rebuilding team when he could potentially go and get around $12m or so a season to play for a team like the Patriots or somebody like that? Maybe he wants to stay, but if so it will cost the Broncos top $. He's not going to accept less. Why should he?

The Broncos will be rebuilding AGAIN, with a completely new coaching staff and a bunch of new OL for the 5th straight year. That has to get old, if you are an OL. He might just want out at this point after 3 discouraging seasons.

Derek Wolfe definitely wants out as he said on the radio "I'm getting tired of this crap!" (Losing). He badly wants to win, and the team is just not a winner.

[Freyaka]

Theyll keep:

Shaq
Shelby
Turner
IRman
Paradis


The rest are old or not that good anyway. Not a big deal. Marshall will be gone for sure. So will Dstew. We also will have almost 100 mil to play with in FA.

Yea, as much as I hated the DT thing, we've got a ton of cap space. We're loaded to make waves in FA and reload. If we can find a QB, we can buy the rest in FA.

[Simple Jaded]

Yea, as much as I hated the DT thing, we've got a ton of cap space. We're loaded to make waves in FA and reload. If we can find a QB, we can buy the rest in FA.

The problem is getting FA’s to sign with Broncos. Cousins laughed at them, Calais Campbell so no and he’s a Broncos fan.

Furthermore, I don’t trust this regime to identify solutions, they could’ve had Trent Brown for what turned out to be Isaac Yiadum.

To be honest, with the way this regime goes about fixing problems it’s fair to wonder if they even know where they have problems.

[Cugel]

The problem is getting FA’s to sign with Broncos. Cousins laughed at them, Calais Campbell so no and he’s a Broncos fan.

Furthermore, I don’t trust this regime to identify solutions, they could’ve had Trent Brown for what turned out to be Isaac Yiadum.

To be honest, with the way this regime goes about fixing problems it’s fair to wonder if they even know where they have problems.

The Broncos offered Calais Campbell $13m and tried to get him to come here for a "discount." Campbell said no, and when to Jacksonville which offered him $15m a year. Then he got about 15 sacks his first season.

Would have been a waste though, because no DT will help if Trevor Siemian is your QB.

[Poet]

We were a win from making the postseason, IIRC. Campbell would have been worth at least a win because pressure from the D Line was a huge issue for the defense that season.

It would have been for nothing, though. TS wasn't sustainable. We might still be starting him right now if he made the playoffs. That might have been better than Keenum.

Campbell would have been nice little windfall. It is what it is, though.

[Simple Jaded]

We were a win from making the postseason, IIRC. Campbell would have been worth at least a win because pressure from the D Line was a huge issue for the defense that season.

It would have been for nothing, though. TS wasn't sustainable. We might still be starting him right now if he made the playoffs. That might have been better than Keenum.

Campbell would have been nice little windfall. It is what it is, though.

Inside pass rush is what they’ve never replaced from the SB50 defense, add Campbell to Von Wolfe Chubb and maybe Roby isn’t so vulnerable.

[Poet]

Inside pass rush is what they’ve never replaced from the SB50 defense, add Campbell to Von Wolfe Chubb and maybe Roby isn’t so vulnerable.

Yeah. That season we rolled over cap space, after offering less money.

Thank god we used it well.

[Simple Jaded]

Yeah. That season we rolled over cap space, after offering less money.

Thank god we used it well.

Cap space = Championship.

[Cugel]

We were a win from making the postseason, IIRC. Campbell would have been worth at least a win because pressure from the D Line was a huge issue for the defense that season.

It would have been for nothing, though. TS wasn't sustainable. We might still be starting him right now if he made the playoffs. That might have been better than Keenum.

Campbell would have been nice little windfall. It is what it is, though.

I don't see how Trevor would ever be better than Keenum. At least Keenum has stayed healthy and is able to play on Sundays. Trevor kept getting hurt. And sucking and then getting hurt some more.

True, having Calais Campbell would have won them 1 more game, so they get into the playoffs. Then get beaten by the Steelers at Heinz Field in January because do you think Trevor Siemian could possibly go on the road and beat Ben Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh?

Things would probably be worse now because it was a false dawn, fooling the team into thinking they were better than they really are.

[Simple Jaded]

Besides arm strength, height and contract there’s not much difference between Keenum and Siemian.

2 out of 3 ain’t bad, I’ll take TS.

[Poet]

I don't see how Trevor would ever be better than Keenum. At least Keenum has stayed healthy and is able to play on Sundays. Trevor kept getting hurt. And sucking and then getting hurt some more.

True, having Calais Campbell would have won them 1 more game, so they get into the playoffs. Then get beaten by the Steelers at Heinz Field in January because do you think Trevor Siemian could possibly go on the road and beat Ben Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh?

Things would probably be worse now because it was a false dawn, fooling the team into thinking they were better than they really are.

Keenum has been a disaster. He has played poorly and for a chunk of the season has either had as many INTS as TDs, or more INTs than TDs.

The team would have made the playoffs - maybe that would have sparked something. Or maybe it would have stopped us from the joyous firesale we are in now. I don't know - I like making the playoffs, let's be honest, the Steelers routinely lose to teams that they should beat in the playoffs.

This team already thought it was better than what it was - thus the awful Keenum signing.

I wanted to blow the team up in the offseason. So if we didn't do that, if we were going to continue to pretend we were good, it would have made sense to actually keep and sign some good players.

For two years I have maintained that we were doing a half-baked rebuild where we couldn't decide if we were blowing up the team or trying to build on it.

I don't think my opinion was an unfair one.

[Nomad]

Broncos gonna win tomorrow, Kiszla!!

[Shazam!]

Broncos gonna win tomorrow, Kiszla!!

So you think theyll overcome the 15 false starts that are coming

[Simple Jaded]

They’ll win, book it.

[Freyaka]

So you think theyll overcome the 15 false starts that are coming

Narrator: They did.

[Davii]

Narrator: They did.

Also narrator: the false starts were LA's and possibly the main reason Denver won

[Freyaka]

Also narrator: the false starts were LA's and possibly the main reason Denver won

Basically... Especially if you ask Keenan Allen, according to him we suck.