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UnderArmour
10-21-2018, 09:50 AM
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-receivers-cornerbacks-sought-by-other-teams-as-potential-denver-rebuild-looms/

The Broncos staved off immediate staff changes by pounding the Cardinals in Arizona on Thursday night, but the club remains at a difficult crossroads with a potential rebuild ahead, and other NFL teams have begun reaching out about acquiring some of their veteran talent.
...
there were strong rumblings of the Broncos trading a veteran receiver like Emmanuel Sanders, 31, or Demaryius Thomas, 30, and league sources said several teams have interest in Sanders
...
Teams have also been exploring the availability of Denver's corners,

The trade deadline is October 30. There is a high likelihood that Elway ships off at least one $5+ million salary veteran ahead of the trade deadline, and Emmanuel and DT make the most sense.

Another report from Adam Schefter this morning claims the Broncos are listening to offers for DT, but telling teams "no" when it comes to Sanders.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25041161/denver-broncos-listening-trade-offers-star-wr-demaryius-thomas

A handful of teams have reached out to Denver to see if the Broncos would be willing to part ways with the five-time Pro-Bowler, who was a first-round pick in 2010, and Denver has not rebuffed those advances to date, according to sources.
...
Denver has not been interested in listening to teams who have called about Sanders.

We'll see what happens, but I think somebody does get moved.

Poet
10-21-2018, 09:58 AM
Good thread.

Shazam!
10-21-2018, 10:03 AM
DT trade talks heat up allegedly from Schefter

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25041161/denver-broncos-listening-trade-offers-star-wr-demaryius-thomas

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-22-2018, 10:42 AM
DT trade talks heat up allegedly from Schefter

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25041161/denver-broncos-listening-trade-offers-star-wr-demaryius-thomas

That’s the same article the OP quoted..

wayninja
10-22-2018, 01:39 PM
Yes, but this time, it's personal.

Freyaka
10-22-2018, 01:58 PM
https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/22/az-arizona-cardinals-trade-rumors-patrick-peterspon-requests-trade/


According to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, Peterson has requested a trade from the Cardinals, just a week after saying publicly he was committed to the team.

Make this freaking happen Elway. DT for Peterson. I'm sure we'll have to throw in several picks to sweeten things, but make this deal done. This would be like the Champ for Portis swap all over again and will have a massive impact on the quality of our defense.

CoachChaz
10-22-2018, 02:06 PM
https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/22/az-arizona-cardinals-trade-rumors-patrick-peterspon-requests-trade/



Make this freaking happen Elway. DT for Peterson. I'm sure we'll have to throw in several picks to sweeten things, but make this deal done. This would be like the Champ for Portis swap all over again and will have a massive impact on the quality of our defense.

Pipe dream

Freyaka
10-22-2018, 02:12 PM
Pipe dream

I don't think it is. If he's discontent and wants out, they need more targets for their struggling young QB. DT's still got some years left in him and if he would be willing to restructure for the Cards, he could be very helpful to Rosen's growth.

Freyaka
10-22-2018, 02:15 PM
Wonder if we could package Roby and DT together for Peterson. Then they'd be gaining a WR and would still have some depth at WR. We'd kill two birds with one stone that way.

Broncoknight30
10-22-2018, 02:16 PM
Patrick Peterson, according to Schefter has officially asked to be traded. DT for Peterson would make perfect sense.

Broncoknight30
10-22-2018, 02:18 PM
Wonder if we could package Roby and DT together for Peterson. Then they'd be gaining a WR and would still have some depth at WR. We'd kill two birds with one stone that way.

Roby is not bad in the slot or nickel zone guy. He is NOT and never was an effective island corner. I think he has value.

dogfish
10-22-2018, 02:18 PM
Pipe dream

may as well pipe dream big, right?

CoachChaz
10-22-2018, 02:22 PM
may as well pipe dream big, right?

I guess...but if I put my Cardinals GM hat on, why do I want to trade for another aging WR with a big price tag...or a CB going into FA this year when I have nothing to play for? At that point I'm asking for top draft picks or young talent for my top 5 corner.

Broncoknight30
10-22-2018, 02:26 PM
I guess...but if I put my Cardinals GM hat on, why do I want to trade for another aging WR with a big price tag...or a CB going into FA this year when I have nothing to play for? At that point I'm asking for top draft picks or young talent for my top 5 corner.

That is true. However, if Peterson is wanting to be traded, would you give up the 2019 first rounder for him?

Poet
10-22-2018, 02:28 PM
Peterson turns 29 next year.

Pass.

Freyaka
10-22-2018, 02:30 PM
Patrick Peterson, according to Schefter has officially asked to be traded. DT for Peterson would make perfect sense.

Hell yes it would! I'd even bring back hope of making the playoffs with just that one addition because that would resurrect the no fly zone here in Denver. He's easily as good as Talib was, but younger and on a better contract.

CoachChaz
10-22-2018, 02:31 PM
That is true. However, if Peterson is wanting to be traded, would you give up the 2019 first rounder for him?

28 years old with two years and 23 million remaining on his contract. I would give up draft capital, but it certainly wouldn't be a 1st rounder. Especially not this year considering it could be a top 12 pick.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-22-2018, 02:32 PM
Peterson will want to go to a winning team, ie not Denver.

CoachChaz
10-22-2018, 02:32 PM
Hell yes it would! I'd even bring back hope of making the playoffs with just that one addition because that would resurrect the no fly zone here in Denver. He's easily as good as Talib was, but younger and on a better contract.

Younger...yes. Better contract...no

Freyaka
10-22-2018, 02:33 PM
Peterson turns 29 next year.

Pass.

He's only a couple years older than Champ was when we traded for him. He's still got at least 3-4 years left in him and that gives us time to start working on finding a replacement while bringing us back into a competitive level of play in the passing game.

CoachChaz
10-22-2018, 02:33 PM
Peterson will want to go to a winning team, ie not Denver.

Something tells me he doesn't have an NTC

CoachChaz
10-22-2018, 02:35 PM
He's only a couple years older than Champ was when we traded for him. He's still got at least 3-4 years left in him and that gives us time to start working on finding a replacement while bringing us back into a competitive level of play in the passing game.

Two replacements. Harris is even older

wayninja
10-22-2018, 02:36 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000977419/article/broncos-demaryius-thomas-my-time-here-is-coming-up


"I still got a chance if I get traded. I want to be here but I've been hearing it the whole season now so I feel like somewhat it is true. My time here is coming up."

Bye, felicia.

Poet
10-22-2018, 02:39 PM
He's only a couple years older than Champ was when we traded for him. He's still got at least 3-4 years left in him and that gives us time to start working on finding a replacement while bringing us back into a competitive level of play in the passing game.

He plays a speed based game and relies on holding more and more each year. I don't think he's going to age gracefully.

How we built the team last time was an anomaly. A lot of chips fell perfectly for Elway in regards to cap space and available players. FA rebuilds typically result in churning out mediocre years. I really hope we don't give up assets to try to rebuild the team.

CoachChaz
10-22-2018, 02:42 PM
He plays a speed based game and relies on holding more and more each year. I don't think he's going to age gracefully.

How we built the team last time was an anomaly. A lot of chips fell perfectly for Elway in regards to cap space and available players. FA rebuilds typically result in churning out mediocre years. I really hope we don't give up assets to try to rebuild the team.

The formula is simple, really. If you want to look like an amazing GM that attracts a ton of top talent...just make sure you have a HOF QB on your roster. They'll come to you after that.

Poet
10-22-2018, 02:45 PM
The formula is simple, really. If you want to look like an amazing GM that attracts a ton of top talent...just make sure you have a HOF QB on your roster. They'll come to you after that.

I want a HoF QB!

CoachChaz
10-22-2018, 02:55 PM
I want a HoF QB!

I'd be happy with a competent QB and staff that knows how to use him.

Poet
10-22-2018, 02:55 PM
I'd be happy with a competent QB and staff that knows how to use him.

Wake me up when September ends.

Freyaka
10-22-2018, 04:25 PM
Wake me up when September ends.

It's almost November hoss...

Poet
10-22-2018, 04:42 PM
It's almost November hoss...

I just wanted to be witty with a song name.

And you couldn't even let me have that!

You're a monster.

Freyaka
10-22-2018, 04:49 PM
I just wanted to be witty with a song name.

And you couldn't even let me have that!

You're a monster.

https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/34/15/94131111-I_m_not_a_monster_I_m_just_ahead_of_the_curve.png

Cugel
10-22-2018, 06:34 PM
https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/22/az-arizona-cardinals-trade-rumors-patrick-peterspon-requests-trade/



Make this freaking happen Elway. DT for Peterson. I'm sure we'll have to throw in several picks to sweeten things, but make this deal done. This would be like the Champ for Portis swap all over again and will have a massive impact on the quality of our defense.

Well, if Elway is selling off the team's ageing veterans, he's sure as hell not taking on Patrick Peterson and his contract. He's counting on rebuilding next year with young players and Patrick Peterson isn't interested in coming to a rebuilding team.

What I wonder is how guys like Derek Wolfe and Sanders and Von Miller react to Elway dismantling the team right after a big win? Wolfe is probably gone next year along with Roby, Todd Davis, Brandon Marshall (who is playing hurt this year).

At some point, players are going to start thinking "I have to protect myself since I'll be a FA next year. I can't get hurt heading into free agency!" And they stop playing for their team-mates, and start looking out for themselves.

In short the exact opposite of they way they played on Thursday night, which was the first time in about 2 years they've totally bought in to a TEAM concept and playing for each other with intensity.

It would be interesting to see what happens the rest of this year, but Elway is obviously all in on tanking in 2018 and getting the top draft pick he can. If they do that I doubt I bother to watch all the remaining games of 2018. It's going to be like being a Raiders fan with all the losing around here! And that sucks.

Add D.T. and they number of players left from the 2015 SB team is down to single digits.

dogfish
10-22-2018, 07:06 PM
What I wonder is how guys like Derek Wolfe and Sanders and Von Miller react to Elway dismantling the team right after a big win?

good grief. . . drama queen much?

:rolleyes:

listening to offers for one guy out of 53 is now "dismantling the team?" come on! these guys are pros, they understand that it's a part of the business. . . they'll be fine. . . also, no one wants to put bad film out there before going into free agency-- or to get a reputation for milking injuries and missing time. . . most guys can't afford to do what le'veon bell is. . . i wouldn't worry about players not giving effort, even if we do end up moving DT. . . he's a franchise icon, but guys with even better careers have been traded before, and will be traded again. . .

Broncoknight30
10-22-2018, 07:21 PM
Well, if Elway is selling off the team's ageing veterans, he's sure as hell not taking on Patrick Peterson and his contract. He's counting on rebuilding next year with young players and Patrick Peterson isn't interested in coming to a rebuilding team.

What I wonder is how guys like Derek Wolfe and Sanders and Von Miller react to Elway dismantling the team right after a big win? Wolfe is probably gone next year along with Roby, Todd Davis, Brandon Marshall (who is playing hurt this year).

At some point, players are going to start thinking "I have to protect myself since I'll be a FA next year. I can't get hurt heading into free agency!" And they stop playing for their team-mates, and start looking out for themselves.

In short the exact opposite of they way they played on Thursday night, which was the first time in about 2 years they've totally bought in to a TEAM concept and playing for each other with intensity.

It would be interesting to see what happens the rest of this year, but Elway is obviously all in on tanking in 2018 and getting the top draft pick he can. If they do that I doubt I bother to watch all the remaining games of 2018. It's going to be like being a Raiders fan with all the losing around here! And that sucks.

Add D.T. and they number of players left from the 2015 SB team is down to single digits.

The whole notion of "rebuilding" is really an antiquated term. How, does a team in the hard cap era "rebuild" unless they have key players willing to restructure their contracts or pass up on big pay days?

That, is a fallacy. This is and has been a win now league and has been for quite some time. The Pats are the glaring exception. One thing we know is the "Patriot way" is a bs term also. To show how that is true, look at the Belichick coaching tree. Hardly any successes. Not in the pros. Now look at the Bill Walsh coaching tree and branches that came out from it.

The point is this is a win now league. If you have the chance to win now, you take that chance. Hence, the reason the draft often times has me frustrated about what we hope for. If the Broncos are fortunate enough to land 3 or 4 productive players in a draft, half of them are gone in 3 years.

Cugel
10-28-2018, 12:53 AM
The whole notion of "rebuilding" is really an antiquated term. How, does a team in the hard cap era "rebuild" unless they have key players willing to restructure their contracts or pass up on big pay days?

That, is a fallacy. This is and has been a win now league and has been for quite some time. The Pats are the glaring exception. One thing we know is the "Patriot way" is a bs term also. To show how that is true, look at the Belichick coaching tree. Hardly any successes. Not in the pros. Now look at the Bill Walsh coaching tree and branches that came out from it.

The point is this is a win now league. If you have the chance to win now, you take that chance. Hence, the reason the draft often times has me frustrated about what we hope for. If the Broncos are fortunate enough to land 3 or 4 productive players in a draft, half of them are gone in 3 years.

Rookie contracts in the NFL last for 4 years if it's 2nd or later round picks, with a 5th year option for 1st rounders.

If a guy is gone after 3 years that's because the team decided not to keep him. Period.

The Broncos have a bunch of players becoming UFAs because Elway decided not to retain them past their rookie deals. That is called failed drafting. If you were doing it right they should be locking up these players for their 2nd contract, and they should be doing it 1 year before they become FAs.

That's what other team do. If you let a player hit FA they make too much money and you either can't compete or else have to overpay the player (examples are D.T. and Sanders).

Another perfect example: Jared Veldheer. He's basically a below average player. He has talent and is effective when he's healthy, but he never stays healthy for long. For this reason the AZ Cardinals gave up on him and let the Broncos take him.

In 2018 he earned "Veldheer will earn a base salary of $6,500,000 and a roster bonus of $406,250, while carrying a cap hit of $6,906,250 and a dead cap value of $6,500,000."

Why would someone give Jared Veldheer $7 million a year when he's such a marginal and risky player? Lack of alternative really.

If a guy is in position to move to another team via FA or trade, he will clean up.

So, rookie contracts are the real deals for teams. And re-signing your own players a year before their contracts expire is cheaper than going out in FA or competing with the entire league for your own UFAs.

Broncoknight30
10-28-2018, 09:57 AM
Rookie contracts in the NFL last for 4 years if it's 2nd or later round picks, with a 5th year option for 1st rounders.

If a guy is gone after 3 years that's because the team decided not to keep him. Period.

The Broncos have a bunch of players becoming UFAs because Elway decided not to retain them past their rookie deals. That is called failed drafting. If you were doing it right they should be locking up these players for their 2nd contract, and they should be doing it 1 year before they become FAs.

That's what other team do. If you let a player hit FA they make too much money and you either can't compete or else have to overpay the player (examples are D.T. and Sanders).

Another perfect example: Jared Veldheer. He's basically a below average player. He has talent and is effective when he's healthy, but he never stays healthy for long. For this reason the AZ Cardinals gave up on him and let the Broncos take him.

In 2018 he earned "Veldheer will earn a base salary of $6,500,000 and a roster bonus of $406,250, while carrying a cap hit of $6,906,250 and a dead cap value of $6,500,000."

Why would someone give Jared Veldheer $7 million a year when he's such a marginal and risky player? Lack of alternative really.

If a guy is in position to move to another team via FA or trade, he will clean up.

So, rookie contracts are the real deals for teams. And re-signing your own players a year before their contracts expire is cheaper than going out in FA or competing with the entire league for your own UFAs.
Ok, and the reason why the team is not going to KEEP THEM period, is because they know they are going to need that money to pay bigger stars. For example the Broncos knew Von Miller was going to up for a big pay day, so they needed to let Trevathan and Malik Jackson go. Two players they had drafted 3 years before. After they showed their production, they moved on to teams willing to pay what the Broncos essentially COULD NOT PAY, if they wanted to pay Von all of that. Along with needing to field a team other than 3 players.

There is no real such thing as REBUILDING. It is a win this year, or win now league. Period. Like I said, IF the Broncos (or any team for that matter) is able to be fortunate enough to hit on 50% of their draft picks, at least half of them are gone in 4 years. That is IF they hit on that many.

This league sucks and they have us so duped as to what it really is. The hard cap essentially punishes teams that draft well and develop players well. Again, the Patriots are the glaring exception. Wishing for a star productive QB to restructure his contract in such a way as to make Osweiler a higher paid QB is stupid wishful thinking.

The Chiefs are certainly taking advantage of the rookie contract given to Mahomes. Watch what happens when he is up for contract and see the players they won't be able to keep. That is the league. It is a win now league. Period.

Cugel
10-28-2018, 12:27 PM
This league sucks and they have us so duped as to what it really is. The hard cap essentially punishes teams that draft well and develop players well. Again, the Patriots are the glaring exception. Wishing for a star productive QB to restructure his contract in such a way as to make Osweiler a higher paid QB is stupid wishful thinking.

The Chiefs are certainly taking advantage of the rookie contract given to Mahomes. Watch what happens when he is up for contract and see the players they won't be able to keep. That is the league. It is a win now league. Period.

It's not a win now league unless you have an elite top 10 QB or a roster full of All-Pros. The Chiefs have both so yes, for them it's "Win now!" The Patriots always are in won now mode because they have Tom Brady. Same thing for the Packers and Steelers, the Falcons and Saints, and now the Rams and Eagles too, for the same reason.

The Broncos would be in "Win now" mode if they had Pat Mahomes. They THOUGHT it was win now mode for the Broncos this year too, but they over-estimated Case Keenum and their defense. They're not remotely ready and must rebuild.

They start rebuilding by drafting a rookie QB next draft. Then they continue rebuilding by building talent around him while he develops for the next 2 seasons. Then hopefully if you've drafted the right QB instead of Paxton Lynch, Jr., then you're in "win now" mode again.

If you haven't rebuilt around him properly then you are still stuck in rebuild mode, even though you have an elite QB -- example the Colts who will get a top 10 pick again next year despite having Andrew Luck.

So, it's really win now for about 12 teams that have elite QBs. Occasionally a team wins without one (Denver SB50) or a NON-elite QB will win with elite players - (Nick Foles, Joe Flacco).

But those are the exceptions to the rule. In reality for more than 1/2 of the teams in the league, it's rebuild now and hope you can win later, cause they're sure as hell not winning now. Some franchises are always rebuilding and then they fire the coach and GM and QB and start over again rebuilding and never enter win now mode at all (Browns, Jets).

UnderArmour
10-28-2018, 07:28 PM
The loss today all but assures the Broncos move on from at least two players tomorrow if non-low ball offers are there. Draft capital and cap space have to be acquired if this team is going to make a run after a QB1. I'm convinced the front office will make a move to acquire Joe Flacco in the offseason, where Baltimore suddenly has an Alex Smith Mahomes situation with Flacco's $20 million APY price tag. A team that acquires Flacco via trade won't have to eat up as much cap on Flacco as the Ravens, because the Ravens paid much of Flacco's $ up front.

Poet
10-28-2018, 07:31 PM
Flacco...please no. UA, don't be a prophet on this one.

Freyaka
10-28-2018, 07:34 PM
Flacco...please no. UA, don't be a prophet on this one.

It's an improvement at the position... Not sure how much, but it is.

UnderArmour
10-28-2018, 07:35 PM
Flacco...please no. UA, don't be a prophet on this one.

I'm convinced he is gone in the offseason when Baltimore inevitably misses the playoffs. He excelled under Kubiak, and has a history of beating us. I think if this team is going to have an immediate resurgence, Flacco would be the one realistic guy the Broncos could get to make that happen.

Freyaka
10-28-2018, 07:37 PM
13269


This obviously isn't real lol, but it's funny as hell of you know the meme.

Poet
10-28-2018, 07:37 PM
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00.htm

He is consistently meh, so it is an upgrade. But we would trying to win a tough division with a middle of the road QB, an up and down defense, and very average offensive line.

It would just be kicking the can down the road...again.

Poet
10-28-2018, 07:38 PM
I'm convinced he is gone in the offseason when Baltimore inevitably misses the playoffs. He excelled under Kubiak, and has a history of beating us. I think if this team is going to have an immediate resurgence, Flacco would be the one realistic guy the Broncos could get to make that happen.

If you're okay with it, I'm okay with it. But, I've been hurt before!

Freyaka
10-28-2018, 07:40 PM
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00.htm

He is consistently meh, so it is an upgrade. But we would trying to win a tough division with a middle of the road QB, an up and down defense, and very average offensive line.

It would just be kicking the can down the road...again.

We have little choice king. There are no viable options in 2019.this is a terrible qb class. 20 20 looks better, but do we really suck for another 2-3 years waiting on a qb? I dunno... Futures bleak man... We're bad news bears...

Simple Jaded
10-28-2018, 07:40 PM
I'm convinced he is gone in the offseason when Baltimore inevitably misses the playoffs. He excelled under Kubiak, and has a history of beating us. I think if this team is going to have an immediate resurgence, Flacco would be the one realistic guy the Broncos could get to make that happen.

Agreed. I will allow this.

HORSEPOWER 56
10-28-2018, 08:01 PM
It’s so sad that we have to look at trading away talent because we have a shit QB and a shit coach. ES and DT have wasted their primes for 3 years playing with the shittiest QBs in the league. They’d be killing it along with Sutton with even average QB play especially with the running game we have. What a complete waste. Keenum should give the money he stole from this franchise back, take 2 weeks off, then quit. Loser.

Cugel
11-01-2018, 12:05 PM
It’s so sad that we have to look at trading away talent because we have a shit QB and a shit coach. ES and DT have wasted their primes for 3 years playing with the shittiest QBs in the league. They’d be killing it along with Sutton with even average QB play especially with the running game we have. What a complete waste. Keenum should give the money he stole from this franchise back, take 2 weeks off, then quit. Loser.

Oh, please. . . .

Keenum is exactly what he was last year. Give him a great offense with playmakers around him, and most importantly an OL that can block for him and he's decent. Give him the Broncos OL and no TE and he sucks, throws picks, and generally feels the pressure even when it's not there yet. He has to get the ball out of his hands in less than 2 seconds or start running, or he's flat on his back.

He's not an elite QB and nobody ever pretended he was. They thought their OL would be better, that Jake Butt would be healthy this year and provide an impact TE in the red zone, and that the defense would be basically what it was last year.

None of that happened. The defense has been very shaky, especially in the secondary after losing Talib. The DL has been rock bottom, giving up 200 yards to RB on successive weeks for the first time in NFL history. Outside of beating up on Alcorn State, Phoenix branch 2 weeks ago, the defense has been shockingly bad much of the year.

The offense is great at running the ball -- in a league where they have broken all the passing records because you can no longer touch the QB at all. The have the WRs even without DT to be an elite passing team - IF they had an elite passer, and a decent OL to pass block for him. Obviously they have neither of these things.

Cugel
11-01-2018, 12:10 PM
You guys can criticize the decision to hire Keenum if you want. But, there were hardly better alternatives. It's a 2 or 3 year rebuilding time anyway, since Elway screwed up the draft for 4 years in a row prior to 2018 - drafting guys like Sylvester Williams, Paxton Lynch and Garrett Bolles in the first round. And guys like Demarcus Walker, Cody Latimer, Montee Ball and Ty Sambrailo in the 2nd round. That's a boatload of wasted first and second round picks the last 4 years.

The majority of those picks SHOULD be the heart of your SB contending team right now -- IF Elway hadn't totally screwed up every one of them.

So, the team is sadly depleted of talent and not competitive, which is not a surprise if you simply review the Broncos recent draft history.

Well this year they turned it around by drafting Chubb, Sutton, Freeman, Josey Jewell and Daesean Hamilton, and Lindsay as an undrafted FA. But, it's going to take a couple more such drafts and finding a franchise QB in the 1st round next year for them to really get back to contending for a Sb. And it doesn't matter much whether they got their QB this year or next. They need virtually everything.

Simple Jaded
11-01-2018, 10:44 PM
So it’s the Broncos fault Case Keenum is Case Keenum?

Cugel
11-03-2018, 02:03 PM
So it’s the Broncos fault Case Keenum is Case Keenum?
Certainly! Absolutely! "You knew I was mediocre when you signed me!" --- Case Keenum.

Did you think he would come here and suddenly turn into Tom Brady? :laugh:

The only thing different between Case Keenum this year and last is that last year he had a GOOD team around him and THIS year he has a CRAPPY team around him. And that makes all the difference.

He's not making them any worse than they are! HOw many holding penalties does Keenum have, BTW? None? "I am shocked! Shocked I tell you!" :coffee:

And the middle of the field. Who to throw to there? Oh, I have an idea! Let us throw in the middle of the field to a big tall beefy scary fast athletic dude with soft hands who can bounce off defenders and still stay on his route and catch the ball in traffic because he's bigger and stronger than the defenders.

I know! We'll call it a Tight End! Let's throw to him! Oh, wait we don't have one of those dudes! We don't have Kyle Rudolph, we have a stiff named Jeff Heurmann who never frightened anybody and who is an UFA at the end of the season.

The Broncos have not bothered to extend his contract because they have no intention of keeping him around next year. Why bother?

But, with the "Pancake Offensive Line" - because they are often flat on their backs like baby ducks, no Keenum is not any good.

He wouldn't be great with any OL, he would be mediocre to decent as he was last season, but with Denver's he's positively awful.

Simple Jaded
11-03-2018, 06:28 PM
Wait? You’re the one that was pimping Keenum as the savior? Cugel?

“Nobody knows Keenum better than Kubiak and Broncos”— Cugel