Maybe the missed delay of game call wasn't actually missed.

[BroncoWave]

I was listening to the Dan Patrick show today and he had former NFL ref Terry McCauley on. According to him, the NFL actively discourages refs from calling delay of game and they actually downgrade a ref when they call it. They basically only want them calling it is it's been a couple of seconds and it's just so blatantly obvious that they have to.

I found that very interesting. While it sucks that we were on the receiving end of it, I guess it was called the way the NFL would prefer. All the more reason to protect your 10 point lead and not let it come down to the judgement of a ref.

[wayninja]

Luckily, this was blatantly obvious.

[BroncoWave]

Well it's always blatantly obvious when you can get a still of the clock at 0 and the ball not being snapped. Again, according to McCauley the NFL doesn't want it called unless it's been a couple of seconds after.

[wayninja]

Then Mcauley is full of shit, or the NFL is full of shit.

[BroncoWave]

Then Mcauley is full of shit, or the NFL is full of shit.

That's a strangely specific thing for him to just make up.

[BroncoJoe]

Redundant thread is redundant.

[wayninja]

That's a strangely specific thing for him to just make up.

Yep. It's a strange world.

I have no idea if he's making it up. Could be. No way to know. What I do know is that there is a rule for delay of game. It was clearly and blatantly broken. If the NFL "doesn't want it called", then they need to change the rules. Not doing so, reduces their credibility and makes it look like they play favorites.

Or, Mcauley is saying stuff because he likes being on the radio. I really don't know. Someone is full of shit.

[BroncoWave]

Redundant thread is redundant.

Well the other thread had kinda died and someone happened to bump it right after I posted this. I suppose it should be merged now.

[BroncoWave]

Yep. It's a strange world.

I have no idea if he's making it up. Could be. No way to know. What I do know is that there is a rule for delay of game. It was clearly and blatantly broken. If the NFL "doesn't want it called", then they need to change the rules. Not doing so, reduces their credibility and makes it look like they play favorites.

Or, Mcauley is saying stuff because he likes being on the radio. I really don't know. Someone is full of shit.

If you think about how ridiculously easy it would be to guarantee that that call is always made correctly, it kinda gives his claim a little credence.

[wayninja]

If you think about how ridiculously easy it would be to guarantee that that call is always made correctly, it kinda gives his claim a little credence.

Yeah, there's a lot of rules that this applies to though.

[spikerman]

Yeah, there's a lot of rules that this applies to though.

Like what?

[wayninja]

Like what?

Aside from all subjective calls?




Spot of the ball and runner:

Runner ruled down by defensive contact or out of bounds (not involving fumbles or the line to gain).
The position of the ball not relating to first down or goal line.
Whether a runner’s forward progress was stopped before he went out of bounds or lost possession of the ball.
Whether a runner gave himself up.


Miscellaneous:

Field Goal or Try attempts that cross above either upright without touching anything.
Erroneous whistle.
Spot where an airborne ball crossed the sideline.
Whether a player was blocked into a loose ball.
Advance by a player after a valid or invalid fair catch signal.
Whether a player created the impetus that put the ball into an end zone.



This is just a list of all of the non-reviewable plays. There's a ton related to being able to make sure a call is guaranteed to be correct that the NFL doesn't do.

[spikerman]

Aside from all subjective calls?




Spot of the ball and runner:

Runner ruled down by defensive contact or out of bounds (not involving fumbles or the line to gain).
The position of the ball not relating to first down or goal line.
Whether a runner’s forward progress was stopped before he went out of bounds or lost possession of the ball.
Whether a runner gave himself up.


Miscellaneous:

Field Goal or Try attempts that cross above either upright without touching anything.
Erroneous whistle.
Spot where an airborne ball crossed the sideline.
Whether a player was blocked into a loose ball.
Advance by a player after a valid or invalid fair catch signal.
Whether a player created the impetus that put the ball into an end zone.



This is just a list of all of the non-reviewable plays. There's a ton related to being able to make sure a call is guaranteed to be correct that the NFL doesn't do.


Youre saying to make all of these reviewable? I can tell you that even under review some of these will be difficult. I also don’t know what you’d do about “erroneous whistles.” Technically they’re called “inadvertent whistles” and they happen to everyone at some point. It’s an awful feeling. I’m not sure how you correct that.

[wayninja]

Youre saying to make all of these reviewable? I can tell you that even under review some of these will be difficult. I also don’t know what you’d do about “erroneous whistles.” Technically they’re called “inadvertent whistles” and they happen to everyone at some point. It’s an awful feeling. I’m not sure how you correct that.

No... that wasn't the question. I said that the standard of credence to Wave's theory also applies to other rules. You asked which.

I think we are getting sidetracked from the point. This is about whether or not the call was missed because the NFL wants it to be missed. I think either that theory is wrong, or the NFL sucks monkey balls for having a rule in which they purposefully allow/desire to be broken.

[Poet]

I love this discussion. The nuance and specifics. I could mount you all.

[Poet]

No... that wasn't the question. I said that the standard of credence to Wave's theory also applies to other rules. You asked which.

I think we are getting sidetracked from the point. This is about whether or not the call was missed because the NFL wants it to be missed. I think either that theory is wrong, or the NFL sucks monkey balls for having a rule in which they purposefully allow/desire to be broken.

There is an argument that whomever writes the rules gets to dictate the enforcement. Sometimes as a policy move, certain branches of certain entities will lower, drop, specify, or alter the enforcement of a rule. I offer this not as a means of agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. But, I do ask this in regards to your opinion on this matter - is this just lazy legislation, as an equivalent, or is it a solid way of dealing with problems when the season is undergoing and the rules can't be amended, or both? Could it sometimes be one or the other? Could it be in the middle?

Tell me your analysis, you monster!

[JPPT1974]

Really that of in the Chiefs going to 0 but that of in the umpire that did not look at the clock at all. Called for a delay in game. One of the many reasons that the team lost.

[spikerman]

No... that wasn't the question. I said that the standard of credence to Wave's theory also applies to other rules. You asked which.

I think we are getting sidetracked from the point. This is about whether or not the call was missed because the NFL wants it to be missed. I think either that theory is wrong, or the NFL sucks monkey balls for having a rule in which they purposefully allow/desire to be broken.
I am curious as to how the rules you cited could be guaranteed to be called correctly. I’m not saying they can’t, but I can’t really imagine how.

[Slick]

Time running out on the play call isn’t subjective at all. It’s nothing like PI or holding. If the clock hits zero it’s a penalty otherwise why have a play clock?

[wayninja]

I am curious as to how the rules you cited could be guaranteed to be called correctly. I’m not saying they can’t, but I can’t really imagine how.

For some, guaranteeing may be too far, but certainly making them reviewable would go a long way in ensuring they get it right. But again, that really wasn't the point.

For the FG, the technology has existed for a long time to track objects position relative other objects (sensors). FG's could be called automatically, without human intervention at all if they really desired. Such technology could be used for ball spotting/out of bounds tracking as well.

Now it's my turn. Do you think the NFL purposefully wants this rule unenforced?

[wayninja]

There is an argument that whomever writes the rules gets to dictate the enforcement. Sometimes as a policy move, certain branches of certain entities will lower, drop, specify, or alter the enforcement of a rule. I offer this not as a means of agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. But, I do ask this in regards to your opinion on this matter - is this just lazy legislation, as an equivalent, or is it a solid way of dealing with problems when the season is undergoing and the rules can't be amended, or both? Could it sometimes be one or the other? Could it be in the middle?


Tell me your analysis, you monster!

These are arbitrary rules in a game. There is literally no reason to make a rule and then have a policy that denies it's enforcement. Who does that benefit? It doesn't benefit the players or coaches. It definitely isn't a good look for the NFL. What's the purpose of these contradictory positions?

[spikerman]

For some, guaranteeing may be too far, but certainly making them reviewable would go a long way in ensuring they get it right. But again, that really wasn't the point.

For the FG, the technology has existed for a long time to track objects position relative other objects (sensors). FG's could be called automatically, without human intervention at all if they really desired. Such technology could be used for ball spotting/out of bounds tracking as well.

Now it's my turn. Do you think the NFL purposefully wants this rule unenforced?

I think that the idea that they don’t want this rule enforced has been overblown. Maybe McAulay was inarticulate when he was speaking (I didn’t hear the interview) but at all levels, the goal is fewer flags in a game. Most supervisors are far more forgiving for missing a foul than they are for calling something that’s not there. So, my thinking is that the NFL philosophy may be that - if it’s close on the play clock and you don’t have to throw it - don’t. In this case, I personally think it should have been called, but either the BJ missed it or he thought it was close enough philosophically to let it go.

Of course I’m totally speculating because I’m nowhere near their level and don’t really know what their marching orders are. There’s a lot more nuance to officiating than I would have ever thought before I started doing it.

[BroncoWave]

Interview with mcaulay starts at the 19:44 mark if anyone is interested.

https://www.podcastone.com/episode/Dan-Patrick-Show---Hour-1---Terry-McAulay-10-03-18

[Elevation inc]

I was listening to the Dan Patrick show today and he had former NFL ref Terry McCauley on. According to him, the NFL actively discourages refs from calling delay of game and they actually downgrade a ref when they call it. They basically only want them calling it is it's been a couple of seconds and it's just so blatantly obvious that they have to.

I found that very interesting. While it sucks that we were on the receiving end of it, I guess it was called the way the NFL would prefer. All the more reason to protect your 10 point lead and not let it come down to the judgement of a ref.

yeah we didn't lose the game because of that call. It sucked but the Baltimore game was way more jacked from a officiating standpoint. Lindsay was fined for a infraction you cant see under a pile after getting dropped on. The late pile drive from the Baltimore player wasn't even identified by the league office and that's on tape....that game we had some valid complaints about the refs. This one we didn't execute as a team when it mattered and we lost as a result.

[BroncoWave]

Just listened to it again. There is no misspeaking on his part. He pretty clearly states that (as spike alluded to), the league doesn't want too many flags thrown as it makes it a worse experience for the fans. And he does specifically say that refs get downgraded if they call delay of game too often. He compared it to how they officiate holding. There is technically holding on every play, but it's only to be called if it's blatantly obvious. Same with delay of game according to him. He said the NFL made it clear to the refs that the play clock is more of a guideline as opposed to a hard rule like the NBA shot clock.

[LawDog]

Just listened to it again. There is no misspeaking on his part. He pretty clearly states that (as spike alluded to), the league doesn't want too many flags thrown as it makes it a worse experience for the fans. And he does specifically say that refs get downgraded if they call delay of game too often. He compared it to how they officiate holding. There is technically holding on every play, but it's only to be called if it's blatantly obvious. Same with delay of game according to him. He said the NFL made it clear to the refs that the play clock is more of a guideline as opposed to a hard rule like the NBA shot clock.

Hmmm, someone should tell the television broadcasters because the play clock is clearly shown and even emphasized in RED when it gets down to 5 seconds. I get the "loosely called" part because of the way they describe how it is observed - watch the clock down to zero, then look to see if the ball has been snapped. That process, even though done on every play, varies. I imagine it varies within the game just as much as it varies from ref to ref. But, the rule is there and you shouldn't be able to count two Mississippi before the ball is snapped and not call the foul.

[MOtorboat]

This is an absolutely ridiculous thing to have be ambiguous in 2018. Unbelievably ridiculous.

[Broncoknight30]

The NFL is so much more controlled than we will ever know. If we truly knew how controlled, I am guessing 50% of the fans would never watch the game again.

So, why do I watch it? Cause I am dumb.

Thats why.

[BroncoWave]

The NFL is so much more controlled than we will ever know. If we truly knew how controlled, I am guessing 50% of the fans would never watch the game again.

So, why do I watch it? Cause I am dumb.

Thats why.

If you're implying it's controlled to the point where they fix games I think you couldn't be more off. If that were the case the cowboys would be in the super bowl every year and it would just take one single disgruntled employee to blow the lid off that and bring the NFL down.