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Denver Native (Carol)
10-02-2018, 09:34 AM
DENVER -- The Denver Broncos believe time ran out on the Kansas City Chiefs on a pivotal play in Kansas City's game-winning drive Monday night.

"It definitely was at zero. The replay showed that," Broncos linebacker Brandon Marshall said. "The ref told us that the ref that was supposed to be watching it just missed it. ... He told us that. The ref told us the guy that was supposed to be watching the clock just missed it.

"So maybe he got caught up in watching the game because it was a good game, but you've got to do your job. Come on, that was huge. That was big."

rest - http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24866412/denver-broncos-say-referees-acknowledged-key-missed-play-clock-call-loss

wayninja
10-02-2018, 09:51 AM
That was one of a few, pivotal plays that if it goes the other way, the outcome is likely changed.

Colorado4Life
10-02-2018, 10:30 AM
That was one of a few, pivotal plays that if it goes the other way, the outcome is likely changed.

I was pissed as anyone that it was clearly on zero but at the end of the day our defense was not stopping them so there is no guarantee that even the temporary reprieve that the delay of game penalty would have given them would have given them enough life to stop their offense. I want to believe it would have been but I watched a defense get decimated on the pass and the run so not sure which mode we would have been able to stop even though I wanted them to shut down the Chiefs.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 10:36 AM
Yeah, of course, no guarantees. Either way. The point is, that it definitely caught the defense off guard. They were all expecting a penalty since the playclock was clearly elapsed. So at the very least, we were flatfooted on a play that should have gone the other way during a crucial drive by the chiefs.

It sucks, but whatever, it is what it is.

BroncoWave
10-02-2018, 10:38 AM
Probably wouldn't have mattered. Couldn't even stop them on second and 30. You think losing those 5 yards would have slowed them down? We didn't lose because of that call.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 10:40 AM
Probably wouldn't have mattered. Couldn't even stop them on second and 30. You think losing those 5 yards would have slowed them down? We didn't lose because of that call.

It was a lot more than 5 yards. It would have been a net 40 yard difference...

Denver Native (Carol)
10-02-2018, 10:41 AM
By that time, the defense was totally gassed. If Case would have hit a wide open DT, who would have stepped in the end zone, the Broncos would have been up by two scores.

Northman
10-02-2018, 10:42 AM
Lmao, Denver had a 10 pt lead late in the 4th. They also had 2 minutes to win the ballgame at the end and failed. This wasnt the refs fault.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 10:42 AM
Missing a blatant, objective call is the refs fault.

Shazam!
10-02-2018, 10:44 AM
There was also a missed facemask vs Lindsay fwiw too

Northman
10-02-2018, 10:54 AM
Missing a blatant, objective call is the refs fault.

Im just saying that wasnt what cost the Broncos the ballgame. They had their chances and didnt get it done.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 10:58 AM
The Broncos made too many mistakes and didn't capitalize on opportunities. This was pretty big though. I'm not quite ready to go as far as saying that they still would have lost if this was called correctly.

If you assume the next play/outcome remains the same, then yes. This had no bearing. Turning a 3rd and 7 into a 3rd and 12 may have changed the play call though, and well, everything depending on that outcome.

BroncoWave
10-02-2018, 11:00 AM
The Broncos made too many mistakes and didn't capitalize on opportunities. This was pretty big though. I'm not quite ready to go as far as saying that they still would have lost if this was called correctly.

If you assume the next play/outcome remains the same, then yes. This had no bearing. Turning a 3rd and 7 into a 3rd and 12 may have changed the play call though, and well, everything depending on that outcome.

I have no confidence we would have stopped them on 3rd and 12. We should never have even put ourselves in a position for a call like that to matter.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 11:03 AM
I have no confidence we would have stopped them on 3rd and 12. We should never have even put ourselves in a position for a call like that to matter.

We were winning the game at that point...

Denver Native (Carol)
10-02-2018, 11:04 AM
The Chiefs had 446 total yards, the Broncos 385. It was not like the Chiefs totally dominated the Broncos defense.

BroncoWave
10-02-2018, 11:06 AM
We were winning the game at that point...

Ok? And if not for the inept 3 and out we'd have had both the ball and the lead at that point.

BroncoWave
10-02-2018, 11:09 AM
The Chiefs had 446 total yards, the Broncos 385. It was not like the Chiefs totally dominated the Broncos defense.

Uh, you don't think giving to 446 yards is being dominated? If we gave up 446 yards per game, that would put us at 31st in the league in that stat. They were gashing us, especially late.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 11:13 AM
Ok? And if not for the inept 3 and out we'd have had both the ball and the lead at that point.

Huh? I'm just not seeing what this has to do with the subject at hand. Broncos had chances and missed them. Which is a separate discussion than this.

You said that you have no confidence that we could have stopped a 3rd and 12, but the fact is, the broncos made a lot of stops last night. 3rd and 12 when the chiefs needed to score could have changed the entire game at that point. I'm not really sure what you are arguing here other than it's ok that the refs blew this call because broncos choked later?

BroncoWave
10-02-2018, 11:16 AM
Huh? I'm just not seeing what this has to do with the subject at hand. Broncos had chances and missed them. Which is a separate discussion than this.

You said that you have no confidence that we could have stopped a 3rd and 12, but the fact is, the broncos made a lot of stops last night. 3rd and 12 when the chiefs needed to score could have changed the entire game at that point. I'm not really sure what you are arguing here other than it's ok that the refs blew this call because broncos choked later?

We weren't stopping them at all in the forth quarter, which is when that play took place. Mahomes had heated up and was moving the ball at will. So no, I don't have much faith we would have stopped them on 3rd and 12.

And no, I'm not saying it's ok that they missed the call. Obviously that sucks. I'm saying I'm not going to blame the loss entirely on that. If you don't want a bad call deciding a game, don't let the game be close enough late for a bad call to matter.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 11:19 AM
And no, I'm not saying it's ok that they missed the call. Obviously that sucks. I'm saying I'm not going to blame the loss entirely on that. If you don't want a bad call deciding a game, don't let the game be close enough late for a bad call to matter.

No one is blaming the entire loss on that call. That doesn't mean that the call couldn't have affected the outcome though. The missed call doesn't excuse the mistakes the Broncos made to blow that game. The broncos mistakes don't excuse the refs missing this call.

BroncoWave
10-02-2018, 11:25 AM
No one is blaming the entire loss on that call. That doesn't mean that the call couldn't have affected the outcome though. The missed call doesn't excuse the mistakes the Broncos made to blow that game. The broncos mistakes don't excuse the refs missing this call.

The thing is, this is a broncos message board, not an officiating message board. I'm more interested in discussing what the broncos could have done better to win. Bad calls happen every game, and I'd be willing to bet we probably benefited from a few ourselves during the game. That stuff all comes out in the wash. Yeah we notice the bad calls late in big moments of the game, but you can't use those as an excuse. Unless the call happened on the last play of the game, you can almost always rebound it, or better yet not put yourself in a position for a bad call to swing the game in the first place.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 11:28 AM
The thing is, this is a broncos message board, not an officiating message board.

Did you read the thread title? Feel free to discuss what you want, but don't be surprised by what's being discussed in this thread...


I'm more interested in discussing what the broncos could have done better to win. Bad calls happen every game, and I'd be willing to bet we probably benefited from a few ourselves during the game. That stuff all comes out in the wash. Yeah we notice the bad calls late in big moments of the game, but you can't use those as an excuse. Unless the call happened on the last play of the game, you can almost always rebound it, or better yet not put yourself in a position for a bad call to swing the game in the first place.

Sure. Again, it just feels to me like you are defending the no-call by saying play downstream excuses it. I feel like that's bullshit. If we benefited from iffy calls this game, please let me know as I didn't see any.

What you are saying is right/fine, but the refs simply blew this one. That's really it man

BroncoWave
10-02-2018, 11:31 AM
Fair enough. In general I just think people get too worked up about bad calls. They happen to every team. The good teams overcome them. We didn't. Sucks, but it is what it is.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 11:36 AM
Yeah, I'm not "worked up" over it. I'm not blaming the loss on it (although it definitely had potential to be a game changer, but just that, potential).

But this call was bad enough that the refs should take criticism for it.

BroncoWave
10-02-2018, 11:40 AM
Yeah, I'm not "worked up" over it. I'm not blaming the loss on it (although it definitely had potential to be a game changer, but just that, potential).

But this call was bad enough that the refs should take criticism for it.

I'm more outraged that a call like that isn't reviewable. It's easy for the guy in charge of watching the play call to zone out for a second and miss that. Shouldn't happen, but it does. The fact that something you can so obviously prove on replay can't be challenged is ridiculous.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 11:41 AM
I'm more outraged that a call like that isn't reviewable. It's easy for the guy in charge of watching the play call to zone out for a second and miss that. Shouldn't happen, but it does. The fact that something you can so obviously prove on replay can't be challenged is ridiculous.

Yep, it should be a no brainer that objective plays should be reviewable.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-02-2018, 11:56 AM
Patrick Mahomes was an other world player last night. He was, well, scary. We had two very good players last night get their hands on him last night and were unable to bring him down.

I don’t think our defense played poorly, I think they just had to deal with an out of this world player. Mahomes did things I have only seen a few times, if ever. It was like watching the arm talent of Elway combined with the running ability of Michael Vick.

Mahomes did something that hasn’t been done in ten years, and he did it against one of the best pass rushes in the game. It’s almost as if our elite athletes pushed him to greatness last night.

Our offense should have done more last night, yes. But the fact is we need to appreciate what we saw last for what it was. It was greatness.

Michael Vick was never that good. He didn’t have the football iq or the ability to read defenses like Mahomes does. Honestly, I’m a little sad we have to deal with this guy for the foreseeable future.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 12:35 PM
I can't take your fair rationality. I just can't.

**** Mahomes. Sorry, I know that sucks if you are a football fan, but I just can't ******* do it today. Hit me up in a week and maybe I give the guy some credit.

Poet
10-02-2018, 12:45 PM
I would give up Von Miller and Chubb for Mahomes. It's not even close.

Magnificent Seven
10-02-2018, 01:47 PM
I think NFL should add new clock referees. Therefore, clock referees can pay attention to the game clock and play clock. Damn, it costed our game! :mad:

gregbroncs
10-02-2018, 03:35 PM
There was also a missed facemask vs Lindsay fwiw too
And a play where Mahomes was past the line on a completion to Kelce.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 03:36 PM
And a play where Mahomes was past the line on a completion to Kelce.

I'm not so sure about that one.

HORSEPOWER 56
10-02-2018, 03:56 PM
I have a serious question about challenges and officiating. In a few of the games I’ve watched recently, coaches have actually been challenging penalties in a roundabout sort of way and getting calls reversed. What I mean is, I saw a coach challenge a 12 men on the field call and there was evidence the player got off the field before the snap. I saw a coach challenge a ineligible receiver call once and get it overturned (guy never stepped out of bounds). I’ve seen other challenges that directly went against or for penalties which I didn’t think was allowed.

Could we have challenged that the play clock expired before the play thereby nullifying it even if no penalty was assessed? I would’ve thrown the challenge flag on that. I also would’ve challenged the 2nd and 30 27 yard pass. It looked like the ball hit the ground but nobody looked at it.

Northman
10-02-2018, 04:05 PM
I have a serious question about challenges and officiating. In a few of the games I’ve watched recently, coaches have actually been challenging penalties in a roundabout sort of way and getting calls reversed. What I mean is, I saw a coach challenge a 12 men on the field call and there was evidence the player got off the field before the snap. I saw a coach challenge a ineligible receiver call once and get it overturned (guy never stepped out of bounds). I’ve seen other challenges that directly went against or for penalties which I didn’t think was allowed.

Could we have challenged that the play clock expired before the play thereby nullifying it even if no penalty was assessed? I would’ve thrown the challenge flag on that. I also would’ve challenged the 2nd and 30 27 yard pass. It looked like the ball hit the ground but nobody looked at it.

I think it only depends on if there was something else that happened on the field that could be challenged. In other words, if there was a question of a catch or turnover and the replay also saw 12 men on the field or in our case the clock running out than they can use that. I dont think they can just review the play based on a penalty alone.

BroncoWave
10-02-2018, 04:11 PM
I have a serious question about challenges and officiating. In a few of the games I’ve watched recently, coaches have actually been challenging penalties in a roundabout sort of way and getting calls reversed. What I mean is, I saw a coach challenge a 12 men on the field call and there was evidence the player got off the field before the snap. I saw a coach challenge a ineligible receiver call once and get it overturned (guy never stepped out of bounds). I’ve seen other challenges that directly went against or for penalties which I didn’t think was allowed.

Could we have challenged that the play clock expired before the play thereby nullifying it even if no penalty was assessed? I would’ve thrown the challenge flag on that. I also would’ve challenged the 2nd and 30 27 yard pass. It looked like the ball hit the ground but nobody looked at it.

12 men is reviewable. Play clock is not.

BroncoWave
10-02-2018, 04:11 PM
I think it only depends on if there was something else that happened on the field that could be challenged. In other words, if there was a question of a catch or turnover and the replay also saw 12 men on the field or in our case the clock running out than they can use that. I dont think they can just review the play based on a penalty alone.

12 men can be challenged specifically.

tripp
10-02-2018, 04:12 PM
I don't even need to hear this, this just makes things worse. Is there any accountability by the refs for this? Any repercussions for this? Broncos get hosed because a guy missed the clock.

As a Yankees fan, I sincerely hope the Rockies stomp the Cubs tonight because the city of Denver needs a little positive karma after that bull shit.

BroncoWave
10-02-2018, 04:27 PM
I don't even need to hear this, this just makes things worse. Is there any accountability by the refs for this? Any repercussions for this? Broncos get hosed because a guy missed the clock.

As a Yankees fan, I sincerely hope the Rockies stomp the Cubs tonight because the city of Denver needs a little positive karma after that bull shit.

Refs miss things. It happens. We still had plenty of chances to win after that play. Good teams rise above it.

wayninja
10-02-2018, 04:34 PM
Refs miss things. It happens. We still had plenty of chances to win after that play. Good teams rise above it.

Yeah, but the refs deserve criticism for missing this call though that could have affected the outcome of the game.

Wait... didn't that black cat already walk by us?

BroncoWave
10-02-2018, 04:36 PM
Yeah, but the refs deserve criticism for missing this call though that could have affected the outcome of the game.

Wait... didn't that black cat already walk by us?

Now I'm debating it with someone else! :D

wayninja
10-02-2018, 04:38 PM
Now I'm debating it with someone else! :D

https://i.imgur.com/YG1Gl4F.gif

Canmore
10-03-2018, 11:37 AM
Refs miss things. It happens. We still had plenty of chances to win after that play. Good teams rise above it.

**** that. The refs blew it on what was a deciding play of the game. Fire the ref. Feed that good teams trash to mother Teresa.

BroncoWave
10-03-2018, 11:40 AM
**** that. The refs blew it on what was a deciding play of the game. Fire the ref. Feed that good teams trash to mother Teresa.

I just started another thread on this but apparently in the NFL's eyes, calling it would have been the worse offense. They downgrade refs who call delay of game.

wayninja
10-03-2018, 11:42 AM
They downgrade them? Like, the refs are functional AI's?

Explain.

BroncoWave
10-03-2018, 11:43 AM
They downgrade them? Like, the refs are functional AI's?

Explain.

Refs are graded on every game. They make a bad call, their grade is reduced.

wayninja
10-03-2018, 11:44 AM
Refs are graded on every game. They make a bad call, their grade is reduced.

Delay of game would not have been a bad call though. It would have been the right call.

Do they get a lower grade for missing calls?

BroncoWave
10-03-2018, 11:46 AM
Delay of game would not have been a bad call though. It would have been the right call.

Do they get a lower grade for missing calls?

Guess I might as well delete that other thread I started since it's being discussed in here. Dan Patrick had former NFL ref Terry McCauley on today and he said the NFL doesn't want refs calling delay of game and it hurts their grade if they do.

wayninja
10-03-2018, 11:48 AM
Guess I might as well delete that other thread I started since it's being discussed in here. Dan Patrick had former NFL ref Terry McCauley on today and he said the NFL doesn't want refs calling delay of game and it hurts their grade if they do.

The NFL should probably not have a rule for delay of game if they don't want it called. This seems like a smokescreen.

BroncoWave
10-03-2018, 11:53 AM
The NFL should probably not have a rule for delay of game if they don't want it called. This seems like a smokescreen.

Well the rule has to exist so that teams can't endlessly run the clock, but the actual time they throw the flag is apparently more up to the refs discretion than we thought.

wayninja
10-03-2018, 11:54 AM
Well, that seems obvious, since they didn't throw a flag. That has little to do with whether or not the rule was violated.

BroncoWave
10-03-2018, 11:55 AM
Well, that seems obvious, since they didn't throw a flag. That has little to do with whether or not the rule was violated.

That's probably why it's not reviewable if the league doesn't actually want it called when it's close like that.

wayninja
10-03-2018, 11:58 AM
That's probably why it's not reviewable if the league doesn't actually want it called when it's close like that.

But it IS called. So, that's a problem. "Close" can be interpreted as favoritism.

So, my best guess from this, is that the NFL wanted KC to win. That certainly supports how the announcers behaved.

Bronco4ever
10-03-2018, 12:32 PM
Wouldn't it make sense to have something that buzzes on the refs uniform to indicate when the clock is expired? Then they don't have to meticulously look at the play clock and see if the play has started or not? Seems like that would prevent some of this.

MOtorboat
10-03-2018, 12:34 PM
Wouldn't it make sense to have something that buzzes on the refs uniform to indicate when the clock is expired? Then they don't have to meticulously look at the play clock and see if the play has started or not? Seems like that would prevent some of this.

Of course it does. That’s why the NFL doesn’t do that. Because it makes sense.

NBA thought too many end of game and shot clock violations were being missed, so they put in a red light and made it reviewable. The NFL goes the other way and makes it ambiguous. That’s a bad look.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-03-2018, 12:40 PM
Pisspoor excuse. Refs call it the majority of the time.

Jsteve01
10-03-2018, 01:27 PM
There was also a missed facemask vs Lindsay fwiw too

Booker but yeah. That was huuuge

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-03-2018, 01:44 PM
At the end of the day we were hoodwinked by Mahomes.
Patrick, please take your 1st round money and ride off into the sunset.

Poet
10-03-2018, 04:22 PM
Mahomes styled on us. A guy I go to school with is a Chief's fan and he was cordial, but when he noted that they had the real deal at QB I saw his happiness.

I hated it.

spikerman
10-03-2018, 04:32 PM
Wouldn't it make sense to have something that buzzes on the refs uniform to indicate when the clock is expired? Then they don't have to meticulously look at the play clock and see if the play has started or not? Seems like that would prevent some of this.

They actually make a product called Ready Ref that does just that, but it’s only used when the play clock is broken. It wouldn’t make sense to use it with the play clock running because the official and the clock operator would have to start the clock at exactly the same time. As far as I know there is no device that would sync up with the actual play clock to buzz him.

Now, I think the officials missed this one and criticism is warranted, but giving up a 2nd and 30 was far more egregious. The Broncos also still could have kept Mahomes from making a play even if the snap was a second late.

Anybody else see CHJ take what I thought was a thinly veiled shot at Woods about that after the game?

wayninja
10-03-2018, 05:02 PM
Why do people keep saying we "gave up a 2nd and 30". They didn't convert that.

But if it's just the idea that they were able to get a first down after being in such a large hole, I get it.

BroncoWave
10-03-2018, 05:21 PM
They actually make a product called Ready Ref that does just that, but it’s only used when the play clock is broken. It wouldn’t make sense to use it with the play clock running because the official and the clock operator would have to start the clock at exactly the same time. As far as I know there is no device that would sync up with the actual play clock to buzz him.

Now, I think the officials missed this one and criticism is warranted, but giving up a 2nd and 30 was far more egregious. The Broncos also still could have kept Mahomes from making a play even if the snap was a second late.

Anybody else see CHJ take what I thought was a thinly veiled shot at Woods about that after the game?

Agreed on all points. The call sucked, but it's not the reason our defense shit the bed on that play or the reason we lost.

As for CHJ, seems like he's been taking shots at the coaches for a couple of weeks now, and I can't say they are all that thinly veiled. Can't say I blame him, he's just pointing out what we all see.

BroncoWave
10-03-2018, 05:22 PM
Why do people keep saying we "gave up a 2nd and 30". They didn't convert that.

But if it's just the idea that they were able to get a first down after being in such a large hole, I get it.

Yeah I think people are just talking about the fact they wound up getting a first down from that point.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-03-2018, 05:35 PM
Semantics, they got 25 on 2nd and 30. Mahomes made Mile High his playground. It made me sad.

wayninja
10-03-2018, 05:51 PM
23. They got 23. So, next play is 3rd and 7. Refs make the right call and it's 3rd and 12. And who knows?

I'm not saying the defense played well in the 4th, just that we don't know what would have happened there. I'd like to think things may have been different, but maybe they aren't and they give up 35 yards anyway.

MOtorboat
10-03-2018, 05:57 PM
They actually make a product called Ready Ref that does just that, but it’s only used when the play clock is broken. It wouldn’t make sense to use it with the play clock running because the official and the clock operator would have to start the clock at exactly the same time. As far as I know there is no device that would sync up with the actual play clock to buzz him.

Now, I think the officials missed this one and criticism is warranted, but giving up a 2nd and 30 was far more egregious. The Broncos also still could have kept Mahomes from making a play even if the snap was a second late.

Anybody else see CHJ take what I thought was a thinly veiled shot at Woods about that after the game?

I can project my computer screen wirelessly to my TV. A restaurant can wirelessly tell me my table is ready with a buzzer. The technology exists, even if the exact device does not.

I agree, Denver had its chances. They went three and out in a critical position, Keenum overthrew a wide open DT. They had Mahomes in 2nd and 30. Etc. But the refs did miss a key call, and the league should not have ambiguous clock rules. This is the same thing with goal line cams. There’s no excuse for the league not to have the technology to not make things ambiguous. Neither eliminates the human element, but it does supplement their work.

BroncoWave
10-03-2018, 06:22 PM
When I think of losses you can legitimatey blame on refs, I think about stuff like the 2001 college football title game where Miami got a stop on 4th down in overtime to win the game, and the refs called a phantom PI that totally stole the game from them. Stuff like that where the game was actually over and a bad call reversed it is where I see a game as stolen by the refs. I don't think this even came close to rising to that standard.

Spike, I'm curious what you thought of that call in that 01 title game? I don't think I've ever been madder at a call than that, and I didn't even have a team I cared about in that game.

spikerman
10-03-2018, 06:28 PM
When I think of losses you can legitimatey blame on refs, I think about stuff like the 2001 college football title game where Miami got a stop on 4th down in overtime to win the game, and the refs called a phantom PI that totally stole the game from them. Stuff like that where the game was actually over and a bad call reversed it is where I see a game as stolen by the refs. I don't think this even came close to rising to that standard.

Spike, I'm curious what you thought of that call in that 01 title game? I don't think I've ever been madder at a call than that, and I didn't even have a team I cared about in that game.
Well, that was before I started officiating and nobody was tougher on refs than me back in the day. I thought it was terrible at the time. I haven’t thought to go back and watch it since. Let me see if I can find it on video and I’ll weigh back in.

spikerman
10-03-2018, 06:31 PM
Just watched it. There is a lot of contact, but no material restriction in my opinion. Still don’t like the call.

MOtorboat
10-03-2018, 07:12 PM
When I think of losses you can legitimatey blame on refs, I think about stuff like the 2001 college football title game where Miami got a stop on 4th down in overtime to win the game, and the refs called a phantom PI that totally stole the game from them. Stuff like that where the game was actually over and a bad call reversed it is where I see a game as stolen by the refs. I don't think this even came close to rising to that standard.

Spike, I'm curious what you thought of that call in that 01 title game? I don't think I've ever been madder at a call than that, and I didn't even have a team I cared about in that game.

I don’t think Denver lost the game because of the call. That doesn’t make it the right call

wayninja
10-03-2018, 07:21 PM
When I think of losses you can legitimatey blame on refs, I think about stuff like the 2001 college football title game where Miami got a stop on 4th down in overtime to win the game, and the refs called a phantom PI that totally stole the game from them. Stuff like that where the game was actually over and a bad call reversed it is where I see a game as stolen by the refs. I don't think this even came close to rising to that standard.

See, and I see this situation as way worse. Not because it more directly affected the outcome, but because it's imminently preventable. As least in that situation, you have an opinion as the impetus rather than some objective truth that you simply ignore.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-03-2018, 07:56 PM
23. They got 23. So, next play is 3rd and 7. Refs make the right call and it's 3rd and 12. And who knows?

I'm not saying the defense played well in the 4th, just that we don't know what would have happened there. I'd like to think things may have been different, but maybe they aren't and they give up 35 yards anyway.

Personally I think the defense did play well given the play calls. IMO, they just pimped by Mahomes

BroncoWave
10-03-2018, 09:05 PM
Just watched it. There is a lot of contact, but no material restriction in my opinion. Still don’t like the call.

I feel like that's one of those things where if you're going to make THAT call at that point of that game, you HAVE to be certain it's correct.

BroncoWave
10-03-2018, 09:06 PM
I don’t think Denver lost the game because of the call. That doesn’t make it the right call

And I never said it was the right call. I just don't think it was as big a deal as others seem to think.

spikerman
10-03-2018, 09:09 PM
I feel like that's one of those things where if you're going to make THAT call at that point of that game, you HAVE to be certain it's correct.

Yeah, there’s an old officiating philosophy that says, if you think you have a foul, you don’t (personal fouls are the exception).

Hawgdriver
10-03-2018, 11:07 PM
Mahomes styled on us. A guy I go to school with is a Chief's fan and he was cordial, but when he noted that they had the real deal at QB I saw his happiness.

I hated it.

Just facts is all. Give him a couple years though. Smart people adjust and find things. I think PM will be solid. VR is good.

wayninja
10-03-2018, 11:18 PM
Good god. It occurs to me that Peyton Manning and Patrick Mahomes share the same initials. So that isn't nitric acid in the wound or anything.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-04-2018, 12:27 AM
Good god. It occurs to me that Peyton Manning and Patrick Mahomes share the same initials. So that isn't nitric acid in the wound or anything.

I know right?!

Hawgdriver
10-04-2018, 12:43 AM
I know right?!

First time I saw someone refer to him as PM I did a double-take.

KCL
10-04-2018, 08:46 AM
Yeah the refs should have called a delay...with that being said and this is JMO that call alone wasn't the reason the Broncos lost.Just seems when Mahomes finally got going the Bronco's D couldn't keep up much like the Chief's D for most of the game.Mahomes just seemed unstoppable once he got into his groove so to speak...so yes they missed that call.