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Poet
09-23-2018, 05:42 PM
Do you think he will turn it around? Do you think that he CAN turn it around?

Nomad
09-23-2018, 07:18 PM
There is always a chance for improvement.

Did you give your own thread a 5 star rating?

Rick
09-23-2018, 07:39 PM
Unfortunately he is what he was every year except last.

He is a quality backup, low end starter.

I was hoping he would be atleast solid with all of these weapons and a solid OC but it was a pipe dream.

Dapper Dan
09-23-2018, 07:39 PM
Yeah

Poet
09-23-2018, 07:43 PM
There is always a chance for improvement.

Did you give your own thread a 5 star rating?

There is a chance.

Yes - I'm the greatest poster alive and yet underrated. I should be shown more love.

Shazam!
09-23-2018, 07:50 PM
We'll see Kelly soon enough if the OLine continues to struggle in pass prot. Its only Week 3 and they're looking piss poor. Technique? Scheme? Coaching?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-23-2018, 07:51 PM
I’m concerned at this point about the complete lack of stretching the field. I think he’s good at:

1: working the pocket
2. Short to intermediate throws
3. Managing the offense

The big problem is if we can’t stretch the field then defenses will just condense it and take the intermediate stuff away.

We only had 50 yards passing at halftime. That is bad ladies and gentlemen.

Poet
09-23-2018, 08:03 PM
I’m concerned at this point about the complete lack of stretching the field. I think he’s good at:

1: working the pocket
2. Short to intermediate throws
3. Managing the offense

The big problem is if we can’t stretch the field then defenses will just condense it and take the intermediate stuff away.

We only had 50 yards passing at halftime. That is bad ladies and gentlemen.

He failed to work the pocket today.
He failed at those and is such a 'rhythm passer' that it's shakey.
He can do this.

The big problem is that when he holds onto the ball he's trying to make plays that he just can't. It was the first half of the Oakland game...but all ******* game.

Lynch would have been more of a threat to the opposition today.

Poet
09-23-2018, 08:04 PM
We'll see Kelly soon enough if the OLine continues to struggle in pass prot. Its only Week 3 and they're looking piss poor. Technique? Scheme? Coaching?

They had two good weaks. Several sacks were squarely on Keenum. The offensive line isn't a scapegoat atm.

Nomad
09-23-2018, 08:04 PM
He failed to work the pocket today.
He failed at those and is such a 'rhythm passer' that it's shakey.
He can do this.

The big problem is that when he holds onto the ball he's trying to make plays that he just can't. It was the first half of the Oakland game...but all ******* game.

Lynch would have been more of a threat to the opposition today.

Now....let's not get crazy.

Poet
09-23-2018, 08:05 PM
Now....let's not get crazy.

I am your prophet.

Nomad
09-23-2018, 08:06 PM
I am your prophet.

Any chance Broncos win next Monday?

Dapper Dan
09-23-2018, 08:08 PM
*Vince McMahon theme music*

Poet
09-23-2018, 08:10 PM
Any chance Broncos win next Monday?

Break Mahommes you break them.

Shazam!
09-23-2018, 08:29 PM
Any chance Broncos win next Monday?

Break Mahommes you break them.

It looks like he'll have all day to sit in the pocket and he wont miss a single target if today was a sample. They'd have to play near perfect to win, and if they arent a pissed off bunch next week, the Season is over.

Hawgdriver
09-23-2018, 08:33 PM
His one great season, he used VR to prep for games. I wonder if there is a relationship. I wonder if VJ and Elway care about these things, or if they just write off stuff they don't understand or agree with.

Poet
09-23-2018, 08:44 PM
His one great season, he used VR to prep for games. I wonder if there is a relationship. I wonder if VJ and Elway care about these things, or if they just write off stuff they don't understand or agree with.

I take umbrage with calling a run of the mill game manager season great. I take umbrage not because it's you, which I think you sometimes suspect, but because it's one of the reasons that people got their expectations up.

Hawgdriver
09-23-2018, 08:51 PM
I take umbrage with calling a run of the mill game manager season great. I take umbrage not because it's you, which I think you sometimes suspect, but because it's one of the reasons that people got their expectations up.

Dude. I choked on my vomit when they announced that 'they got their guy'. He's Siemian. All he's done so far is prove he's actually worse than T-Siz.

Swag.

Hawgdriver
09-23-2018, 08:52 PM
It was a great regular season though, from the QB position. Great production.

Poet
09-23-2018, 08:52 PM
Dude. I choked on my vomit when they announced that 'they got their guy'. He's Siemian. All he's done so far is prove he's actually worse than T-Siz.

Swag.

I'm starting to hate him as much as I hated TS.

You cannot fathom my hatred for TS.

Hawgdriver
09-23-2018, 08:52 PM
I'm starting to hate him as much as I hated TS.

You cannot fathom my hatred for TS.

No, I cannot.

Poet
09-23-2018, 08:54 PM
It was a great regular season though, from the QB position. Great production.

I will never fall in love with 22 TDs and 3500 yards in a small ball offense.

It was a game manager production that people went goo-goo-ga-gag for because they don't understand completion percentage and QBR.

You, like old silly people like Top who can't fathom why small ball completion percentages that are really high aren't as actually impressive as a real NFL offense completion percentage that is just high.

Or how game managers are supposed to be efficient and the QBR formula overvalues that efficiency.

I just want people to be as smart as me.

Hawgdriver
09-23-2018, 08:56 PM
I will never fall in love with 22 TDs and 3500 yards in a small ball offense.

It was a game manager production that people went goo-goo-ga-gag for because they don't understand completion percentage and QBR.

You, like old silly people like Top who can't fathom why small ball completion percentages that are really high aren't as actually impressive as a real NFL offense completion percentage that is just high.

Or how game managers are supposed to be efficient and the QBR formula overvalues that efficiency.

I just want people to be as smart as me.

Perhaps you have a point to make then?

All you've done is say 'no, you are wrong' but haven't shown why. Meanwhile, that production with a solid defense was sufficient for a conference championship game.

Poet
09-23-2018, 09:00 PM
Perhaps you have a point to make then?

All you've done is say 'no, you are wrong' but haven't shown why. Meanwhile, that production with a solid defense was sufficient for a conference championship game.

I made my point - you missed it. Not my fault. My point is what I highlighted - that production asserted as good is not considered good and nor should it be. 22 TDs is a nice total from the 90's. 3500 yards is not good, either. The standard is 4k. That production with one of the BEST defenses in the league, so good that the Vikings could run the ball more than anyone else even though they only got 3.9 a carry (hiding CK) was good enough to get to the NFCCG.

Also, after highlighting why the contextual stats (QBR and %) weren't impressive, the point was pretty clear. If you're going to critique an argument you should probably read it better.

I am irritated in general and I shouldn't be so short.

Hawgdriver
09-23-2018, 09:01 PM
I made my point - you missed it. Not my fault. My point is what I highlighted - that production asserted as good is not considered good and nor should it be. 22 TDs is a nice total from the 90's. 3500 yards is not good, either. The standard is 4k. That production with one of the BEST defenses in the league, so good that the Vikings could run the ball more than anyone else even though they only got 3.9 a carry (hiding CK) was good enough to get to the NFCCG.

Also, after highlighting why the contextual stats (QBR and %) weren't impressive, the point was pretty clear. If you're going to critique an argument you should probably read it better.

I am now irritated with you.

You haven't proven a damn thing. It's sad you think you have.

I'm willing to concede everything you say, and you still haven't made a point.

Poet
09-23-2018, 09:04 PM
You haven't proven a damn thing. It's sad you think you have.

I'm willing to concede everything you say, and you still haven't made a point.

Well I cited to his stats and noted that his stats aren't that impressive in 2018. It's sad that you think someone has to hold your hand and walk you through an entire argument. I work off of the assumption that someone, for instance, knows what the basic standards are for QB play.

I edited my comment out of a desire to be cordial. I now repudiate that cordial conduct as you were as undeserving of it as I had previously determined.

**** right off.

Hawgdriver
09-23-2018, 09:09 PM
Well I cited to his stats and noted that his stats aren't that impressive in 2018. It's sad that you think someone has to hold your hand and walk you through an entire argument. I work off of the assumption that someone, for instance, knows what the basic standards are for QB play.

I edited my comment out of a desire to be cordial. I now repudiate that cordial conduct as you were as undeserving of it as I had previously determined.

**** right off.

Look, if you can prove that a 2017 Keenum and solid defense isn't a recipe for a postseason run, I'll bow down to your towering intellect. You just haven't done that.

Keenum is limited. But that production from 2017 in a 50/50 offense was adequate with a stellar defense. That is what the Broncos thought they would get, but they discounted how much of his production was playing mistake-free with plus anticipation from drilling with VR. It's sad the Broncos don't have a clue about how to vet and develop a modern QB.

What I get from you is that Keenum's efficiency doesn't really mean much because he doesn't pose a talent question to defenses that require special measures to offset. And in this era, if you don't have a QB that does that, you can be schematically overcome. I think that's your point, but you never made it.

aberdien
09-23-2018, 09:11 PM
He's better than T-Sim, but he is not a quarterback you want if you ever want to win a SB.

Poet
09-23-2018, 09:12 PM
It was a great regular season though, from the QB position. Great production.

This was the post - the assertion that it was great production from the QB position. Then you changed it to a 'recipe' which still doesn't make it great production from the QB position. Stop moving the goal line while chiding someone for 'not proving something' Oh King of Rhetoric and debate.

I don't need anyone to bow to my adequate yet mostly average intellect.

Shazam!
09-23-2018, 09:14 PM
I still think it's a major OLine deficiency and pass prot block problem. Run blocking has been better but it's an improved backfield too. CK looked just like Simien today.

Hawgdriver
09-23-2018, 09:14 PM
This was the post - the assertion that it was great production from the QB position. Then you changed it to a 'recipe' which still doesn't make it great production from the QB position. Stop moving the goal line while chiding someone for 'not proving something' Oh King of Rhetoric and debate.

I don't need anyone to bow to my adequate yet mostly average intellect.

Man. You get stirred up. I'm pissed at Keenum too, but VJ even more. He's not deploying his assets properly. I'll make up my mind about this stuff after the KC game.

I'll still party on Sundays if they get smoked, but I'll know deep down what we got.

aberdien
09-23-2018, 09:18 PM
In Keenum's defense, I don't think any QB could survive our terrible coaching staff.

I got to experience the joy of a SB win in my adult life. No worries.

Poet
09-23-2018, 09:23 PM
Man. You get stirred up. I'm pissed at Keenum too, but VJ even more. He's not deploying his assets properly. I'll make up my mind about this stuff after the KC game.

I'll still party on Sundays if they get smoked, but I'll know deep down what we got.

Yes, the man calling others "pathetic," and asserting that they have not done what they, the "pathetic," one think they have is in a great position to talk about being stirred up.

I simply respond as to how I am treated.

I'm pissed categorically. I'm pissed at Keenum for being Keenum. I'm pissed at VJ for being as stupid as Keenum is devoid in ability, and I'm pissed at Elway for co-signing both of them.

I know Keenum's shit. You want to know how I know a QB is shit? I'm a ******* former's Bengals fan. You don't ******* understand shit QB's to that degree unless you're a Cleveland, Detroit, or Chicago fan. I know what a limited QB looks like because I watched them for decades. Some guys can overproduce, like Gannon, because they're overly talented in a department, like smarts for instance. Or, they can be judged to be an average talent, like Trent Green, but have a great skill set for a type of offense and then master it. Green was a pretty good QB in his day.

And then you have losers like Keenum. His arm is so weak he throws ankle balls because it's raining, and he's consistently one of the worst deep ball passers in the league (a point I brought up in the offseason which was ignored...mostly because homers are homers and do homer things). So yeah, he's accurate, but he should be considering the types of thows he routinely makes. Oh, and as JADED, aka the One True God pointed out, some stats show that most of his deep ball passes that WERE successful came from some great plays from a WR Corp ranked atop the league.

We have a C- player at QB. And he has A+ heart and a B+ mind. But he has a D- arm, and when he gets bad he gets really, really bad. And when he's good...he's actually just above average.

He's a poor man's version of Nick Foles, and Nick Foles is too inconsistent to be a starter.

Hawgdriver
09-23-2018, 09:33 PM
I don't understand the pathetic reference, was that something I said?

The rest of it, yeah.

This seemed like an 8-8 team, more like 7-9, at the start. That's where I am still. I want the Broncos to be better than that. I want VJ and Case and everyone else to show they belong in a championship game. It isn't apparent now that this is in the cards. I enjoy the wins when they come, week to week. With Manning I felt like we had higher standards and expectations. I don't have that feeling now.

Broncos need to pile up the W's, or something's got to give. Keenum has been exceptionally disappointing so far, even for me. 18 million to get 0.5 more wins than Siemian? Give me back Talib. And Wade. Dammit I hate losses like this.

Nomad
09-23-2018, 09:33 PM
Keenum gonna shock the NFL with a win at Arrowhead.

Poet
09-23-2018, 09:39 PM
I still think it's a major OLine deficiency and pass prot block problem. Run blocking has been better but it's an improved backfield too. CK looked just like Simien today.

How do you get to that conclusion when the line was fine the first two games and several of the sacks were because CK held onto the ball too long?

He's just bad.

UnderArmour
09-23-2018, 09:43 PM
If Sutton and DT can consistently catch the ball and stay in a rhythm, Keenum has every opportunity to get out of his INT funk. Musgrave needs to be more imaginative and/or run a more up-tempo offense that maximizes the team's strengths.

Hawgdriver
09-24-2018, 12:48 AM
If Sutton and DT can consistently catch the ball and stay in a rhythm, Keenum has every opportunity to get out of his INT funk. Musgrave needs to be more imaginative and/or run a more up-tempo offense that maximizes the team's strengths.

DT balled. This trio of WRs is crazy good, I wish the team could show them off a bit more.

MOtorboat
09-24-2018, 04:19 AM
If Sutton and DT can consistently catch the ball and stay in a rhythm, Keenum has every opportunity to get out of his INT funk. Musgrave needs to be more imaginative and/or run a more up-tempo offense that maximizes the team's strengths.

Sanders’ drops were the problem today. He had at least two.

Tned
09-24-2018, 07:35 AM
I'm starting to hate him as much as I hated TS.

You cannot fathom my hatred for TS.

I think anyone that's endured BF for the last two years understands that hatred... ;)

Shazam!
09-24-2018, 07:53 AM
I still think it's a major OLine deficiency and pass prot block problem. Run blocking has been better but it's an improved backfield too. CK looked just like Simien today.

How do you get to that conclusion when the line was fine the first two games and several of the sacks were because CK held onto the ball too long?

He's just bad.

See Bolles horrible play on the reg. McGovern had a rough day but Bolles is just terrible

Ziggy
09-24-2018, 07:56 AM
QB doesn't matter a whole lot when the coaching is as bad as it is. VJ will be fired at the bye. New start next season, and camp will be another QB competition.

Shazam!
09-24-2018, 08:00 AM
QB doesn't matter a whole lot when the coaching is as bad as it is. VJ will be fired at the bye. New start next season, and camp will be another QB competition.

Agreed. It was an ugly undisciplined game across the Board with glimpses of what could be in a winnable game. VJ and Joe Woods are just terrible, and pass protection is just friggin awful. Von wasnt even a factor.

Nomad
09-24-2018, 08:15 AM
What is everyone's expectations for next Monday night against the Chiefs?

Many had the Ravens game as a loss because of east coast, and the Ravens usually give the Broncos fits. And that's exactly what happened.

Jsteve01
09-24-2018, 08:23 AM
QB doesn't matter a whole lot when the coaching is as bad as it is. VJ will be fired at the bye. New start next season, and camp will be another QB competition.

Agreed. It was an ugly undisciplined game across the Board with glimpses of what could be in a winnable game. VJ and Joe Woods are just terrible, and pass protection is just friggin awful. Von wasnt even a factor.

The worst part of all of this is that some really good coaches were out there last year and we had pick of the lot and John jut coulsnt get past his obsession with Vance and Joe. How much do you think a seasoned old that like Wade would benefit this coaching staff right now? Plus just by proxy being rid of Joe Woods would make us automatically better.

Poet
09-24-2018, 08:29 AM
See Bolles horrible play on the reg. McGovern had a rough day but Bolles is just terrible

Two good games one bad game not helped by a panicking qb holding onto the ball too long.

To Ziggy: VJ wasn’t the one throwing ankle balls because of the rain. QB matters, coach being a positive or a negative be damned.

Hawgdriver
09-24-2018, 08:43 AM
What is everyone's expectations for next Monday night against the Chiefs?

Many had the Ravens game as a loss because of east coast, and the Ravens usually give the Broncos fits. And that's exactly what happened.

I expect a Broncos win.

Nomad
09-24-2018, 09:02 AM
I expect a Broncos win.

That’s expected every game, right? :D

Tangerine
09-24-2018, 09:06 AM
See Bolles horrible play on the reg. McGovern had a rough day but Bolles is just terrible

Yes the penalties were bad, but honestly each time he saved Keenum from getting killed. Keenum was holding the ball way too long, without the hold he gets sacked hard each time and probably fumbles. As bad as the holds were, it probably would've been way worse had he not held.

Shazam!
09-24-2018, 09:11 AM
He was holding the ball trying to make a play downfield. Its a team game folks, CK isnt the only reason they lost.

BroncoWave
09-24-2018, 09:11 AM
See Bolles horrible play on the reg. McGovern had a rough day but Bolles is just terrible

Awful take. Boles was a brick wall the first two weeks. Had a bad week 3. "Terrible player". :lol:

BroncoWave
09-24-2018, 09:13 AM
The worst part of all of this is that some really good coaches were out there last year and we had pick of the lot and John jut coulsnt get past his obsession with Vance and Joe. How much do you think a seasoned old that like Wade would benefit this coaching staff right now? Plus just by proxy being rid of Joe Woods would make us automatically better.

This goes against was was reported that John was ready to clean house and Ellis tasked him out of it at the eleventh hour.

BroncoWave
09-24-2018, 09:13 AM
I expect a Broncos win.

Expect? Or desperately hope?

Shazam!
09-24-2018, 09:22 AM
See Bolles horrible play on the reg. McGovern had a rough day but Bolles is just terrible

Awful take. Boles was a brick wall the first two weeks. Had a bad week 3. "Terrible player". :lol:

Bolles has struggled and he has not been a bright spot. You're kidding yourself if you think he was a 'brick wall' and i question if you even watched the first two games or any of last year. He gets blown up on the reg. He needs to play better, like everyone else.

Shazam!
09-24-2018, 09:25 AM
See Bolles horrible play on the reg. McGovern had a rough day but Bolles is just terrible

Two good games one bad game not helped by a panicking qb holding onto the ball too long.

To Ziggy: VJ wasn’t the one throwing ankle balls because of the rain. QB matters, coach being a positive or a negative be damned.

Keenum too has to play smarter but he was panicky because he was afraid of getting killed. You guys make out like he is operating behind Nalen and Schlereth and the 90s Broncos. They run better but Freeman and Lindsay have been effective too, thats the big difference.

Theyre a liability in pass prot. Plain and simple.

Tangerine
09-24-2018, 09:33 AM
He was holding the ball trying to make a play downfield. Its a team game folks, CK isnt the only reason they lost.

Seriously?? As much as he wants to be, Keenum isn't Brett Favre, he's not going to run around back there and make these magical plays out of nothing. All that's going happen from Keenum holding the ball, or running around like a confused dog, is a holding call because the o-lineman grab their guy to keep Keenum from getting killed, a bigger sack, or an INT. Unless it's 4th down, either throw the ball away or take the check down.

Mike
09-24-2018, 09:38 AM
I hoped for better, but it's about what I expected. I expect a decent coaching staff could make him look better than what we have. But we don't have that.

Breaking down rest of year:

KC - Don't think I will even watch. I expect this to be embarassingly bad on national tv. L
NYJ - Toss up
Rams - L (blowout fashion)
Cardinals - W
KC - L
Hou - Toss up
LAC - L
Pitt - L
Cin - L
SF - W
Cle - L
Oak - L
LAC - L

Denver is frustrating. There is enough talent on the team to be in the hunt for a WC spot. Coaching is without a doubt the biggest issue. Vance and Woods should be gone. They shouldn't have let Talib go. Our HC should be able as a "leader of men" to manage passionate players.

I am torn between wanting to see Kelly play and not wanting him to get phucked up long-term due our coaching staff.

BeefStew25
09-24-2018, 09:46 AM
KC defense is soooo poopy. Get right game Keenum!

Tangerine
09-24-2018, 09:50 AM
Keenum too has to play smarter but he was panicky because he was afraid of getting killed. You guys make out like he is operating behind Nalen and Schlereth and the 90s Broncos. They run better but Freeman and Lindsay have been effective too, thats the big difference.

Theyre a liability in pass prot. Plain and simple.

Why is he afraid of getting killed? He's been sacked 5 times and has been hit 18 times, both numbers are about the middle of the league. By this point last year, I think Siemian already had double digit sacks. He's been hit about the same as the rest of the staring QBs, if he can't even handle that, then he has no business starting.

Freyaka
09-24-2018, 09:52 AM
We'll see Kelly soon enough if the OLine continues to struggle in pass prot. Its only Week 3 and they're looking piss poor. Technique? Scheme? Coaching?

Level of talent due to a GM that refuses to properly address the glaring need for more talent?

Freyaka
09-24-2018, 09:57 AM
In Keenum's defense, I don't think any QB could survive our terrible coaching staff.

I got to experience the joy of a SB win in my adult life. No worries.

I don't remember who said it, but it sums our situation up nicely. We've got 12-4 talent, 2-14 coaching staff. It's true. You can't win with a staff this bad. We're going to be a garbage team no matter who the QB is until we can VJ and his inept coaching hires.

Shazam!
09-24-2018, 09:57 AM
I hoped for better, but it's about what I expected. I expect a decent coaching staff could make him look better than what we have. But we don't have that.

Breaking down rest of year:

KC - Don't think I will even watch. I expect this to be embarassingly bad on national tv. L
NYJ - Toss up
Rams - L (blowout fashion)
Cardinals - W
KC - L
Hou - Toss up
LAC - L
Pitt - L
Cin - L
SF - W
Cle - L
Oak - L
LAC - L

Denver is frustrating. There is enough talent on the team to be in the hunt for a WC spot. Coaching is without a doubt the biggest issue. Vance and Woods should be gone. They shouldn't have let Talib go. Our HC should be able as a "leader of men" to manage passionate players.

I am torn between wanting to see Kelly play and not wanting him to get phucked up long-term due our coaching staff.

Lets see what Pitt does tonight before we take a loss there. They have looked horrible.

I think Pitt should fire Tomlin and Broncos get him

BeefStew25
09-24-2018, 09:58 AM
Lets see what Pitt does tonight before we take a loss there. They have looked horrible.

I think Pitt should fire Tomlin and Broncos get him

I don’t think you can go back to back black coaches. It’s not diverse.

Shazam!
09-24-2018, 10:00 AM
Lets see what Pitt does tonight before we take a loss there. They have looked horrible.

I think Pitt should fire Tomlin and Broncos get him

I don’t think you can go back to back black coaches. It’s not diverse.

What about Affirmative Action

Freyaka
09-24-2018, 10:03 AM
Yes the penalties were bad, but honestly each time he saved Keenum from getting killed. Keenum was holding the ball way too long, without the hold he gets sacked hard each time and probably fumbles. As bad as the holds were, it probably would've been way worse had he not held.

As always, Mike Hawk gets it...

BeefStew25
09-24-2018, 10:09 AM
What about Affirmative Action

Racist law

Rick
09-24-2018, 10:11 AM
With all the talent on this team, I felt if Case resembled game manager Case from last year at all we would be a playoff contender.

Right now this feels like the start of last year and another 5 win season is coming...

BeefStew25
09-24-2018, 10:12 AM
With all the talent on this team, I felt if Case resembled game manager Case from last year at all we would be a playoff contender.

Right now this feels like the start of last year and another 5 win season is coming...

We are almost halfway there!

BroncoJoe
09-24-2018, 10:14 AM
we are almost halfway there!

#1fan

BeefStew25
09-24-2018, 10:15 AM
#1fan

Thank you brother. Part of being the best fan is not freaking out after a loss. A loss which I predicted. We are a .500 team.

BroncoJoe
09-24-2018, 10:16 AM
Thank you brother. Part of being the best fan is not freaking out after a loss. A loss which I predicted. We are a .500 team.

Agree. I had hopes for a potential win, but wouldn't have bet my ex-wife on it.

Wait. I think I did that wrong.

wayninja
09-24-2018, 10:17 AM
I have hope that Keenum retires mid-season.

Elevation inc
09-24-2018, 10:20 AM
I think this.....Keenum is better than his play currently. We don't win games 1 or 2 without him and his moxy. That being said his Int's are worrisome, and his pocket presence yesterday was trash. I was even more concerned by play calling yesterday though then anything else. You had a RB with 13 carries for 58 yds starting to roll. The pass rush was fierce and our OL was struggling and the response was to throw and wait for the WR's to complete deep routes???? WTF! I get we were down but some of our best plays in the second half were run plays, and then we would abandon them. Also booker is a bum and should be cut already......I think there are concerns with coaching, play calling and holding the ball to long, making our OL overmatched. For me Musgrave had the worst game of his 3 so far, more so then keenum. That int keenum had was the right read and throw, just not enough zip and timing. lets not forget either we were driving in a big way for a boost score with 9 mins, when DT had those couple great grabs on great throws by keenum. He was putting us in a position to come back again, until we self imploded with penalties the entire last 10 minutes of the game....we should have pounded the rock, and used some screens to slow the pass rush.....There are conerns showing with keenum no doubt, but we still have many games to go before the verdict is more complete.....I will be honest I have seen enough from him to know he will fight till the bitter end to bring us back, which is far better than last year. I still felt we had a chance with 4 minutes left down 13, then anytime we were down last year lol. He does have to play better and make better decisions early across the board though.....

Krugan
09-24-2018, 10:30 AM
This is who case has always been, the td to int ratio is almost identical minus a weird last season.

This just isnt a very good team or coaching staff.

On the upside, we are a game better than the Pats, and most likely will be even with them after next week. Silver lining.

BeefStew25
09-24-2018, 10:30 AM
And the Steelers are a mess.

Elevation inc
09-24-2018, 10:36 AM
And the Steelers are a mess.

KC is the team to beat in the AFC in my mind, but there defense is suspect, I expect KC to put up 28 on our defense which means Keenum needs to have that 300 3 td no int game were waiting for at home to have a shot. I think it can be a shootout, but there are a lot of shaky variables....I'm very worried about our secondary and coaching back there.....

Nomad
09-24-2018, 10:42 AM
So, if Keenum struggles Monday night with the Broncos losing by 3 touchdowns in the 4th, you think VJ pulls a ‘Steve Wilks’, and brings in Kelly for a spark?

Seeing his leash with Siemian, I’d say no chance.

Rick
09-24-2018, 11:08 AM
It wasn't 1 bad day in 1 loss that worried me, it is inconsistent play against Seattle, poor play against a bad Jokeland team, and horrid play against the Ravens.


Teams have his number and on top of it our defense is regressing as well.

Valar Morghulis
09-24-2018, 11:13 AM
At least with Siemian I held out hope he could develop as he was young, And essentially unknown but with keenum we knew what we were getting. And now we are surprised.

Kyle Orton 2.0

Tangerine
09-24-2018, 11:39 AM
The book definitely out on Keenum now, blitz often and cover the short routes, make him try to throw longer with disastrous results. He doesn't have the athletic ability or arm strength to make teams pay for playing that kind of defense. I'm guessing his performances will only get worse.

Hawgdriver
09-24-2018, 11:52 AM
Expect? Or desperately hope?

Anticipate.

BroncoWave
09-24-2018, 11:53 AM
Anticipate.

Can you tell me which stocks you anticipate to do well soon so I can buy their competitors? :D

wayninja
09-24-2018, 11:55 AM
Anticipate.

With a pervasive disquiet?

Hawgdriver
09-24-2018, 11:56 AM
With a pervasive disquiet?

Yes!

Freyaka
09-24-2018, 11:57 AM
This is not intended as an excuse for Keenum, he was bad before this play, but if you look on the play where Lindsey was ejected, it's very, very clear that Keenum was concussed. He took a shot to the head and was loopy as the ball was on the ground. Dude didn't know what color the sky was, all he knew is he was Batman.

We should have seen Chad Kelly from that play on because he should have been on concussion protocall had the coaching staff actually done its job. Admittedly, I missed it too because I was too focused on the fumble and everything else going on, but dude was out on his feet.

Buff
09-24-2018, 12:01 PM
Keenum was never going to be the next franchise QB - we just need him to be serviceable, which I still think he can be...

He's not good enough to overcome bad play on the o-line and defense.

wayninja
09-24-2018, 12:01 PM
This is not intended as an excuse for Keenum, he was bad before this play, but if you look on the play where Lindsey was ejected, it's very, very clear that Keenum was concussed. He took a shot to the head and was loopy as the ball was on the ground. Dude didn't know what color the sky was, all he knew is he was Batman.

We should have seen Chad Kelly from that play on because he should have been on concussion protocall had the coaching staff actually done its job. Admittedly, I missed it too because I was too focused on the fumble and everything else going on, but dude was out on his feet.

I'm skeptical. I watched it several times, and even commented on Case on that play just sitting there (not on his feet btw, just kind of sitting next to the pile). I don't think he was concussed, just looked disgusted.

Tangerine
09-24-2018, 12:07 PM
Keenum was never going to be the next franchise QB - we just need him to be serviceable, which I still think he can be...

He's not good enough to overcome bad play on the o-line and defense.

Well the o-line and defense aren't getting any better this year, if he needs that succeed then what's the point of keeping him the starter? We know he's not a longterm answer, might as well see what we have in Kelly.

Freyaka
09-24-2018, 12:09 PM
I agree with Mike Hawk.

Though, I also think no matter who we have at QB, things aren't going to get better until Elway fixes the o-line or someone else is brought in to fix it in his place.

Shazam!
09-24-2018, 12:15 PM
If Manning (albeit a broken down version of Manning) couldn't mask the OLine woes, nobody could operate behind that. If it wasnt for the late signing of Harris in Oct of 15 Denver doesnt win the SB plain and simple.

MOtorboat
09-24-2018, 12:21 PM
If Manning (albeit a broken down version of Manning) couldn't mask the OLine woes, nobody could operate behind that. If it wasnt for the late signing of Harris in Oct of 15 Denver doesnt win the SB plain and simple.

But Matt Paradis is the only holdover, and other than Jaded, everyone seems to think he’s a solid, if not above-average center. The other four linemen are completely different. It’s not like they’ve kept the same five guys; they’re making changes. They drafted a left tackle, who I think will be fine. He played really well in the first two games and then allowed a sack and had two holds yesterday, but I saw Keenum holding the ball way too long yesterday. Veldheer has been fine outside one play, and the line has steadily improved in the middle and turned this team into an above average rushing team. The line was 9th in running DVOA in 2017, and through two weeks the line was third in rushing and fourth in pass pro according to DVOA. I’m sure that latter number goes down after that performance when the new numbers come out. But the line isn’t the problem people want it to be.

Buff
09-24-2018, 12:27 PM
But Matt Paradis is the only holdover, and other than Jaded, everyone seems to think he’s a solid, if not above-average center. The other four linemen are completely different. It’s not like they’ve kept the same five guys; they’re making changes. They drafted a left tackle, who I think will be fine. He played really well in the first two games and then allowed a sack and had two holds yesterday, but I saw Keenum holding the ball way too long yesterday. Veldheer has been fine outside one play, and the line has steadily improved in the middle and turned this team into an above average rushing team. The line was 9th in running DVOA in 2017, and through two weeks the line was third in rushing and fourth in pass pro according to DVOA. I’m sure that latter number goes down after that performance when the new numbers come out. But the line isn’t the problem people want it to be.

So to recap, we've had 2 games with decent line play out of the last, like, 40 - but it's not the problem? I don't buy this at all. Bolles sucks. We overpaid for spotty Leary production, and our center gets fantastic grades from PFF as the anchor of the worst line in the league every year. Veldheer has been ok, but we had to give up Talib to get him, and now our secondary is a huge hole.

That's another way to spin it.

Valar Morghulis
09-24-2018, 12:28 PM
But Matt Paradis is the only holdover, and other than Jaded, everyone seems to think he’s a solid, if not above-average center. The other four linemen are completely different. It’s not like they’ve kept the same five guys; they’re making changes. They drafted a left tackle, who I think will be fine. He played really well in the first two games and then allowed a sack and had two holds yesterday, but I saw Keenum holding the ball way too long yesterday. Veldheer has been fine outside one play, and the line has steadily improved in the middle and turned this team into an above average rushing team. The line was 9th in running DVOA in 2017, and through two weeks the line was third in rushing and fourth in pass pro according to DVOA. I’m sure that latter number goes down after that performance when the new numbers come out. But the line isn’t the problem people want it to be.

Not just jaded!

MOtorboat
09-24-2018, 12:35 PM
So to recap, we've had 2 games with decent line play out of the last, like, 40 - but it's not the problem? I don't buy this at all. Bolles sucks. We overpaid for spotty Leary production, and our center gets fantastic grades from PFF as the anchor of the worst line in the league every year. Veldheer has been ok, but we had to give up Talib to get him, and now our secondary is a huge hole.

That's another way to spin it.

First, we gave up Talib because he apparently clashed too much with the coaches, not to sign an offensive lineman. And judging from current cap space, signing Veldheer had nothing to do with Talib’s salary, because there’s enough room now to pay both.

Pass pro is below par, I’m not trying to sugar coat that, but this team is an above-average running team and a lot of that is the success of the offensive line. The line just isn’t the whipping boys that people seem to want them to be. Even down two scores, they were breaking off 10 yards at a time on the ground in the second half.

All that said, Keenum caused most of the problems yesterday because he held onto the ball way too long. And here we are blaming the line again. That’s on Keenum.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-24-2018, 12:38 PM
Not just jaded!

There will be a day of reckoning Dave.

wayninja
09-24-2018, 12:38 PM
The previous 37 games aside, the last 3 have shown marked improvement in o-line and pass pro. We aren't all-world, but early goings show a better front line than what we saw in 2017.

Buff
09-24-2018, 12:43 PM
First, we gave up Talib because he apparently clashed too much with the coaches, not to sign an offensive lineman. And judging from current cap space, signing Veldheer had nothing to do with Talib’s salary, because there’s enough room now to pay both.

Pass pro is below par, I’m not trying to sugar coat that, but this team is an above-average running team and a lot of that is the success of the offensive line. The line just isn’t the whipping boys that people seem to want them to be. Even down two scores, they were breaking off 10 yards at a time on the ground in the second half.

All that said, Keenum caused most of the problems yesterday because he held onto the ball way too long. And here we are blaming the line again. That’s on Keenum.

Bolles had an all time bad performance yesterday. Just about as bad as it can possibly get for an o-lineman. How many passes are we going to give him?

My big concern heading into this year was that we basically added Veldheer and declared last year's o-line fixed. Clearly, that's not the case.

BeefStew25
09-24-2018, 12:47 PM
I guess I like how Bolles goes down with a fight tho. And he’s super smart.

MOtorboat
09-24-2018, 12:49 PM
Bolles had an all time bad performance yesterday. Just about as bad as it can possibly get for an o-lineman. How many passes are we going to give him?

My big concern heading into this year was that we basically added Veldheer and declared last year's o-line fixed. Clearly, that's not the case.

All time bad? I’m going to disagree there. At least one of the holds, and I’d have to check again because I think both, were because Keenum stood back there and patted the ball eight times and Bolles didn’t want him to get killed. The sack that led to Lindsay’s ejection was a really bad play, he appeared to give up.

But we went through this for two damn years with Siemian, and was repeatedly told it was the offensive line. It wasn’t, he held the ball too long and that’s exactly what Keenum did yesterday and here we are talking about “all-time bad” performances by the line, and I think that’s simply not true,

wayninja
09-24-2018, 12:51 PM
I'm going with MO here, but I still love buff. The line has definitely been better. Is it fixed? No. But Keenum was holding balls longer than Chris Collinsworth last night.

Ziggy
09-24-2018, 12:52 PM
Two good games one bad game not helped by a panicking qb holding onto the ball too long.

To Ziggy: VJ wasn’t the one throwing ankle balls because of the rain. QB matters, coach being a positive or a negative be damned.

Two good games? It was 2 wins against horrible teams at home. It was smoke and mirrors my friend. Denver's talent overcame bad coaching in weeks 1 and 2. This team has more talent than most of the teams in the NFL. It won't finish better than .500, and that's only if VJ gets fired at the bye.

Buff
09-24-2018, 12:56 PM
All time bad? I’m going to disagree there. At least one of the holds, and I’d have to check again because I think both, were because Keenum stood back there and patted the ball eight times and Bolles didn’t want him to get killed. The sack that led to Lindsay’s ejection was a really bad play, he appeared to give up.

But we went through this for two damn years with Siemian, and was repeatedly told it was the offensive line. It wasn’t, he held the ball too long and that’s exactly what Keenum did yesterday and here we are talking about “all-time bad” performances by the line, and I think that’s simply not true,

He was single handedly responsible for a strip sack that led to Lindsay's ejection and killed all of our positive momentum, another hold that negated critical 39 yard reception, and then his last hold immediately preceded a Keenum interception, for which he bears at least some responsibility.

When he wasn't busy racking up his hat trick of awfulness - he was getting beat. If that's not as bad as it gets, I'd love to hear your definition!

MOtorboat
09-24-2018, 12:59 PM
He was single handedly responsible for a strip sack that led to Lindsay's ejection and killed all of our positive momentum, another hold that negated critical 39 yard reception, and then his last hold immediately preceded a Keenum interception, for which he bears at least some responsibility.

When he wasn't busy racking up his hat trick of awfulness - he was getting beat. If that's not as bad as it gets, I'd love to hear your definition!

The entire offensive line from two years ago called that a game.

I’m not saying it was good, I’m just saying it wasn’t “all-time bad” and Keenum bears some responsibility for those plays too.

Northman
09-24-2018, 01:05 PM
I'm going with MO here, but I still love buff. The line has definitely been better. Is it fixed? No. But Keenum was holding balls longer than Chris Collinsworth last night.

Agreed. Up until yesterday the line has played much better and even had some good moments yesterday. A lot of the problems were their protection schemes and Keenum's holding onto the ball for far too long.

Elevation inc
09-24-2018, 01:12 PM
Agreed. Up until yesterday the line has played much better and even had some good moments yesterday. A lot of the problems were their protection schemes and Keenum's holding onto the ball for far too long.


That and the fact that our play calling was quite bad, every time freeman had momentum we would call a long pass play with a long route and keenum would hold the ball too long and our OL was under siege. We should have run much more yesterday then we did. Freeman looked good.

wayninja
09-24-2018, 01:13 PM
Agreed. Up until yesterday the line has played much better and even had some good moments yesterday. A lot of the problems were their protection schemes and Keenum's holding onto the ball for far too long.

The fact that we are even able to see and/or complain about how long Keenum was holding the ball says a lot.

Buff
09-24-2018, 01:15 PM
The fact that we are even able to see and/or complain about how long Keenum was holding the ball says a lot.

Yeah it says that you guys can't evaluate o-line play very well! :D

Valar Morghulis
09-24-2018, 01:15 PM
That and the fact that our play calling was quite bad, every time freeman had momentum we would call a long pass play with a long route and keenum would hold the ball too long and our OL was under siege. We should have run much more yesterday then we did. Freeman looked good.

Yeah - there was one play, i think it was on 3rd and 2, instead of feeding freeman, they tried a cute throw into the flat - which surprisingly failed miserably

wayninja
09-24-2018, 01:18 PM
Yeah it says that you guys can't evaluate o-line play very well! :D

True, I'm too busy fixing a sandwich waiting for keenum to go through reads.

Northman
09-24-2018, 01:21 PM
True, I'm too busy fixing a sandwich waiting for keenum to go through reads.

:lol:

Poet
09-24-2018, 01:30 PM
He was holding the ball trying to make a play downfield. Its a team game folks, CK isnt the only reason they lost.

He's horrible at playmaking. He's supposedly good at not turning the ball over. Case is so busy trying to show that he's the man he's letting the team down. His ego is killing the team.

Poet
09-24-2018, 01:32 PM
Bolles has struggled and he has not been a bright spot. You're kidding yourself if you think he was a 'brick wall' and i question if you even watched the first two games or any of last year. He gets blown up on the reg. He needs to play better, like everyone else.

He gave up no sacks and iirc had no penalties. Fans were stoked about his performance. This isn't an accurate summation of the first two games, Shazam. You're trying to squint and rescue Keenum.

wayninja
09-24-2018, 01:35 PM
He gave up no sacks and iirc had no penalties. Fans were stoked about his performance. This isn't an accurate summation of the first two games, Shazam. You're trying to squint and rescue Keenum.

He had 1 penalty I believe.

Poet
09-24-2018, 01:35 PM
Keenum too has to play smarter but he was panicky because he was afraid of getting killed. You guys make out like he is operating behind Nalen and Schlereth and the 90s Broncos. They run better but Freeman and Lindsay have been effective too, thats the big difference.

Theyre a liability in pass prot. Plain and simple.

You seem to think that anything less than the Washington Redskins hog line means that a QB is about to die. One of his biggest saving graces was ball security and performance against blitzes and the pass rush. The vikings pass pro was average last year.

Now he's unable to do that. Mostly because he's looking down the field trying ot make a play. He's not that guy. He's trying to be that guy. He's pressing.

If we're to accept that kind of play then Chad Kelly is definitely the guy to play. And I say that willing to take all the stupid mistakes Kelly will commit. We're approaching the same territory as before where we are wasting time letting undertalented guys play when you might as well hope the talented guy can come through.

Jsteve01
09-24-2018, 01:42 PM
This goes against was was reported that John was ready to clean house and Ellis tasked him out of it at the eleventh hour.


Howso? I'm talking about hiring Vance in the first place. John was obsessed with him from the time we interviewed him for our DC position. So as soon as he became available all our focus was on him rather than Kyle or Lynn or McVey. And again we essentially fired Wade so we could hang onto this young stud position coach who has led a disappointing group for a little over a year now.

Poet
09-24-2018, 01:44 PM
Bolles had an all time bad performance yesterday. Just about as bad as it can possibly get for an o-lineman. How many passes are we going to give him?

My big concern heading into this year was that we basically added Veldheer and declared last year's o-line fixed. Clearly, that's not the case.

He gave up a sack and a hold. The other hold was because CK was playing poorly.

So if a sack and a hold is is as bad as it can get....no...it's not.

Bolles had a rough rookie year. He had two good games and one bad game, not some all time awful game.

Poet
09-24-2018, 01:45 PM
Two good games? It was 2 wins against horrible teams at home. It was smoke and mirrors my friend. Denver's talent overcame bad coaching in weeks 1 and 2. This team has more talent than most of the teams in the NFL. It won't finish better than .500, and that's only if VJ gets fired at the bye.

Was referring to Bolles.

Poet
09-24-2018, 01:52 PM
There is a bit of irony here. The argument or notion seems to be that because Suggs went off we of course could not have won the game, and it's not on Keenum.

But we've seen our great defensive players go off while we lose the game. In both instances, we had subpar quarterbacking.

We've self-consigned ourselves, it seems.

Freyaka
09-24-2018, 02:06 PM
Agreed. Up until yesterday the line has played much better and even had some good moments yesterday. A lot of the problems were their protection schemes and Keenum's holding onto the ball for far too long.

Lets not forget that the line looked better through the first handful of games last year too. Despite and early claim in this thread, TS didn't have a lot of sacks or hurries through the first two games last year. It was around this time the wheels fell off because TS was holding the ball for too long trying to make a play and walking right into the defenders due to a lack of pocket awareness...

Yesterday looked very similar to game 3 last year.

Northman
09-24-2018, 02:07 PM
Lets not forget that the line looked better through the first handful of games last year too. Despite and early claim in this thread, TS didn't have a lot of sacks or hurries through the first two games last year. It was around this time the wheels fell off because TS was holding the ball for too long trying to make a play and walking right into the defenders due to a lack of pocket awareness...

Yesterday looked very similar to game 3 last year.

Which makes sense because teams start to game plan better as the year goes on and because our coaching staff cant adjust and our QB's shit themselves it all just starts falling apart.

Poet
09-24-2018, 02:08 PM
Why does Elway fall for talentless losers?

Mike
09-24-2018, 02:14 PM
Yesterday Bolles was last year Bolles. He was bad. Going against Suggs and an aggressive defense will make a lot of young players look bad. Overall his play has been better this year, but yesterday was a really bad day for him. Keenum didn't help by holding the ball too long. But I think that is because the WRs couldn't get quick separation, plays took too long to develop.

Again, this is coaching. Not adapting to WRs being jammed at the LOS, not getting TEs more involved, RBs in the flats, or just moving to a heavier run emphasis...we just kept doing the same thing that wasn't working. Expect defenses to keep doing this to Denver. They will get physical with the WRs at the LOS and bring pressure.

Freyaka
09-24-2018, 02:46 PM
Why does Elway fall for talentless losers?

Why does north love Tom Brady? Some things will never make sense.

ShaneFalco
09-24-2018, 03:53 PM
People treating Keesum like Manning. The dude has done nothing in the NFL for his entire career, except get benched for younger franchise QBs

Nomad
09-24-2018, 03:55 PM
People treating Keesum like Manning. The dude has done nothing in the NFL for his entire career, except get benched for younger franchise QBs

Bradford was benched, and Rosen is starting

Poet
09-24-2018, 03:57 PM
He had an appeal and he fit a narrative. The appeal was this was the tough grinder guy who finally hit his groove and was going to be great - they thought he was the NFL's version of Jimmy Butler. Throw around the words tough, gritty, gamer, 'accurate' and you just sell people on a brand of football that they like. The narrative was that he'd make the offense passable and then with our revamped defense we'd be contenders again.

The reality of the situation is that if Peyton Manning were an award, he'd be the MVP award. Keenum is a participation trophy.

Buff
09-24-2018, 03:58 PM
Yesterday Bolles was last year Bolles. He was bad. Going against Suggs and an aggressive defense will make a lot of young players look bad. Overall his play has been better this year, but yesterday was a really bad day for him. Keenum didn't help by holding the ball too long. But I think that is because the WRs couldn't get quick separation, plays took too long to develop.

Again, this is coaching. Not adapting to WRs being jammed at the LOS, not getting TEs more involved, RBs in the flats, or just moving to a heavier run emphasis...we just kept doing the same thing that wasn't working. Expect defenses to keep doing this to Denver. They will get physical with the WRs at the LOS and bring pressure.

It's hard to understate how crippling it is for an offense to have zero threat at tight end. Would have been nice to get a couple of cheap completions when they were shutting down the outside yesterday. It's like a complete void at that position for us.

Poet
09-24-2018, 03:58 PM
Buff, please change your adopted Bronco.

MOtorboat
09-24-2018, 03:59 PM
It's hard to understate how crippling it is for an offense to have zero threat at tight end. Would have been nice to get a couple of cheap completions when they were shutting down the outside yesterday. It's like a complete void at that position for us.

My excitement over Butt is fading.

Poet
09-24-2018, 03:59 PM
Didn't that class have a lot of strong TE's?

Heheh...excited....butt...heheheh

ShaneFalco
09-24-2018, 04:07 PM
It's hard to understate how crippling it is for an offense to have zero threat at tight end. Would have been nice to get a couple of cheap completions when they were shutting down the outside yesterday. It's like a complete void at that position for us.

did you miss the last play where Butt was open and Keesum didnt have the arm strength to even get the ball at his feet?

Kelly throws that ball at Butts chest at 1,000 mph

Tangerine
09-24-2018, 04:16 PM
All I hear is excuses for Keenum.... yes, the offense isn't perfect and loaded with playmakers at every position, but outside the Chiefs no NFL offense is.

The excuses get old, we heard them for Orton, Osweiler, and Siemian....At some point though Keenum just has to play like the starting QB they're paying him to be, if he can't do that then move aside.

The guy has only thrown TDs passes in one game so far.....

Nomad
09-24-2018, 04:18 PM
Buff, please change your adopted Bronco.

Ok.

Mike
09-24-2018, 04:18 PM
did you miss the last play where Butt was open and Keesum didnt have the arm strength to even get the ball at his feet?

Kelly throws that ball at Butts chest at 1,000 mph

Serious question, do you want Kelly out on the field under this coaching staff?

Nomad
09-24-2018, 04:20 PM
All I hear is excuses for Keenum.... yes, the offense isn't perfect and loaded with playmakers at every position, but outside the Chiefs no NFL offense is.

The excuses get old, we heard them for Orton, Osweiler, and Siemian....At some point though Keenum just has to play like the starting QB they're paying him to be, if he can't do that then move aside.

The guy has only thrown TDs passes in one game so far.....

We have no control. You’ll have to take it up with Kubiak, Elway, & VJ.

Poet
09-24-2018, 04:20 PM
Ok.

Don't be short with me!

Buff
09-24-2018, 04:21 PM
All I hear is excuses for Keenum.... yes, the offense isn't perfect and loaded with playmakers at every position, but outside the Chiefs no NFL offense is.

The excuses get old, we heard them for Orton, Osweiler, and Siemian....At some point though Keenum just has to play like the starting QB they're paying him to be, if he can't do that then move aside.

The guy has only thrown TDs passes in one game so far.....

I don't think this is a case of either/or. I am super underwhelmed by Keenum's play AND I think our coaches are bad AND the o-line is still terrible AND we have no NFL-caliber TEs on the roster.

Nomad
09-24-2018, 04:23 PM
Serious question, do you want Kelly out on the field under this coaching staff?

Gotta see what you have. But, that ain’t gonna happen as VJ believes Keenum will get better.

Poet
09-24-2018, 04:25 PM
McDaniels > Vance Joseph.

Mike
09-24-2018, 04:28 PM
Gotta see what you have. But, that ain’t gonna happen as VJ believes Keenum will get better.

Gotta ruin what you have then. I have no faith in what VaJ can do with talent and don't want to see a young talent ruined because of his ineptness.

Tangerine
09-24-2018, 04:28 PM
I don't think this is a case of either/or. I am super underwhelmed by Keenum's play AND I think our coaches are bad AND the o-line is still terrible AND we have no NFL-caliber TEs on the roster.

Butt's caught passes in every game, he's on pace for 40-50 catches and 400-500 yards. Not elite TE numbers, but better than the crap we've thrown out there the last 2 years.

The most frustrating thing is this is likley the most talented team we've had since the Super Bowl, they should be at least be a borderline playoff team. Yet they are being dragged down by the worst QB/Head Coach combo in the league.

Nomad
09-24-2018, 04:31 PM
Gotta ruin what you have then. I have no faith in what VaJ can do with talent and don't want to see a young talent ruined because of his ineptness.

He’s not gonna play, so you don’t have to worry.....unless Keenum gets hurt.

Freyaka
09-24-2018, 04:37 PM
McDaniels > Vance Joseph.

Every Coach in the History of the Sport including little league > Vance Joseph.

Freyaka
09-24-2018, 04:37 PM
Gotta ruin what you have then. I have no faith in what VaJ can do with talent and don't want to see a young talent ruined because of his ineptness.

I want to argue against this, but I can't. Can we fire VJ and start Kelly next week? Is that possible?

ShaneFalco
09-24-2018, 04:40 PM
Serious question, do you want Kelly out on the field under this coaching staff?

thats a tough one.

id feel alot better if he had a former NFL QB as coach.

Not a backup QB at CU.

Id be more comfortable with Mike Martz teaching Kelly, and he pushed Warner out of St. Louis.


Then again. His Uncle can probably give him better tips then any coach.

Poet
09-24-2018, 06:40 PM
thats a tough one.

id feel alot better if he had a former NFL QB as coach.

Not a backup QB at CU.

Id be more comfortable with Mike Martz teaching Kelly, and he pushed Warner out of St. Louis.


Then again. His Uncle can probably give him better tips then any coach.

He wouldn't be ruined via one year attached to a bad coach. He sat on the bench and studied for awhile. It's time for him to play.

Shazam!
09-24-2018, 06:56 PM
McDaniels > Vance Joseph.

McD at least was an Xs and Os guy and wouldnt embarrass calling the game. Shitty immature leader, but an imaginative offensive coach as opposed to what they have now. Vj is clueless in games and press conferences.

Tangerine
09-25-2018, 12:52 PM
McD at least was an Xs and Os guy and wouldnt embarrass calling the game. Shitty immature leader, but an imaginative offensive coach as opposed to what they have now. Vj is clueless in games and press conferences.

You know VJ is bad when even Josh McDaniels starts sounding like a better option, lol

wayninja
09-25-2018, 01:11 PM
McD at least was an Xs and Os guy and wouldnt embarrass calling the game. Shitty immature leader, but an imaginative offensive coach as opposed to what they have now. Vj is clueless in games and press conferences.

Let's beat the shit out of both of them.

ShaneFalco
09-26-2018, 03:25 PM
If keesum sucks vs one of the worst ds in the league.

there will be no hiding it.

Freyaka
09-26-2018, 03:43 PM
If keesum sucks vs one of the worst ds in the league.

there will be no hiding it.

Yep, this game is do or die for him. If he can't get his crap together and play well this week, he's not going to all year.

Krugan
09-26-2018, 04:00 PM
Week 4, come on peeps...

gregbroncs
09-26-2018, 04:37 PM
Week 4, come on peeps...I'm not usually an over reaction guy. I tend to believe until the bitter end. But even in their wins this year there have been serious flaws in the coaching and QB play. The Raider game felt like luck, and that teams not very good. The first game felt like a good win, but Seattle isn't very good, the pathetic play and loss to an average at best Baltimore team just made it hard to have faith in this team right now and especially in the Coaching staff. I guess my normal optimism is broke, because I don't see much hope of this team being better than a 4-5 win team with this coaching staff. And yes I put most of the blame on them because this roster feels talented enough to be a playoff team.

Elevation inc
09-27-2018, 08:11 AM
I have hope in the form of 347 yds passing 3 TD's and 1 INT in the win Monday against the chiefs......Bring it!!!!

wayninja
09-27-2018, 09:03 AM
I have hope in the form of 347 yds passing 3 TD's and 1 INT in the win Monday against the chiefs......Bring it!!!!

This is an unusually specific wish list. But I like it!

Valar Morghulis
09-27-2018, 10:02 AM
In terms of completions, I see a tebowesque performance at arrowhead

wayninja
09-27-2018, 10:04 AM
In terms of completions, I see a tebowesque performance at arrowhead

We won that game IIRC. So, you're optimistic?

Freyaka
09-27-2018, 10:19 AM
In terms of completions, I see a tebowesque performance at arrowhead

Realistically, he'll have a good game. The Chief's pass defense is very porous. But I don't know that he can keep up score for score with Mahomie.

Valar Morghulis
09-27-2018, 10:57 AM
We won that game IIRC. So, you're optimistic?

Yeah, I have a cheery disposition and always look for the good in life.

All joking aside, I would take seven completions, if we still managed to win!!!

Northman
09-27-2018, 11:03 AM
We aint beating the Chiefs. Lol.

wayninja
09-27-2018, 11:05 AM
We aint beating the Chiefs. Lol.

Let's take a page out of dave's book and be cheery and optimistic. We are going to beat them in draft order.

Valar Morghulis
09-27-2018, 11:06 AM
We aint beating the Chiefs. Lol.

Maybe mahomes gets injured, Hill and hunt get trapped inside each other and miss the game after a sexual game went wrong.

Oh and kelce gets shingles

Northman
09-27-2018, 11:07 AM
Let's take a page out of dave's book and be cheery and optimistic. We are going to beat them in draft order.

Or be like Nomad and guarantee a victory. He's the most optimistic person ive ever seen with the Broncos. But in other circles we would call that an enabler. lol

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-27-2018, 11:18 AM
In terms of completions, I see a tebowesque performance at arrowhead

Then let’s be thankful this game is at Mile High.

Valar Morghulis
09-27-2018, 11:38 AM
Then let’s be thankful this game is at Mile High.

I was specifying the Tebow game, as he was rotten in so many I felt without the location my post was too ambiguous

Freyaka
09-27-2018, 11:48 AM
I'm backing off my original thoughts that it's going to be 59-14 level ugly, but to win, we're going to have to match KC score for score and I don't think we can. I think we lose this one 42-35 with neither team playing defense because neither team has a defense. We're still losing IMO. Unless Woods is secretly a mastermind and has been sandbagging this whole time to keep from giving anything away to the Chiefs.

wayninja
09-27-2018, 12:17 PM
I was specifying the Tebow game, as he was rotten in so many I felt without the location my post was too ambiguous

Yeah, you'd need to sort through all the times Tebow played the chiefs as a bronco.

Valar Morghulis
09-27-2018, 12:24 PM
Yeah, you'd need to sort through all the times Tebow played the chiefs as a bronco.

I am guessing twice?

Or did Orton play the first game that season? Either way I see kee-bum sucking hard on Monday.

MOtorboat
09-27-2018, 12:29 PM
I am guessing twice?

Or did Orton play the first game that season? Either way I see kee-bum sucking hard on Monday.

It was twice. You’re thinking of the 2 for 8 game that Denver managed to win.

But there was also the 7-3 loss at home where he was a solid 6 for 22 with an interception. Solid performances all around.

Hawgdriver
09-27-2018, 12:30 PM
Or be like Nomad and guarantee a victory. He's the most optimistic person ive ever seen with the Broncos. But in other circles we would call that an enabler. lol

I want to be enabled!

wayninja
09-27-2018, 12:31 PM
I am guessing twice?

Or did Orton play the first game that season? Either way I see kee-bum sucking hard on Monday.

Yep, twice. We won the first game, lost the second. But the first was at arrowhead... which we won. The second game at mile high was way worse IMHO. Super ugly game, from both teams.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-27-2018, 12:49 PM
Yep, twice. We won the first game, lost the second. But the first was at arrowhead... which we won. The second game at mile high was way worse IMHO. Super ugly game, from both teams.

Getting beat at home by the fainting goat was a dark day.

Valar Morghulis
09-27-2018, 12:51 PM
Getting beat at home by the fainting goat was a dark day.

that's right - i forgot about him playing in Kansas

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-27-2018, 01:02 PM
that's right - i forgot about him playing in Kansas

The Kansas City Chiefs are in Missouri amigo.

BeefStew25
09-27-2018, 01:06 PM
It was twice. You’re thinking of the 2 for 8 game that Denver managed to win.

But there was also the 7-3 loss at home where he was a solid 6 for 22 with an interception. Solid performances all around.

Oh yeah. The year he beat the Steelers.

Valar Morghulis
09-27-2018, 01:06 PM
The Kansas City Chiefs are in Missouri amigo.

yeah i know. poor turn of phrase on my part.

MOtorboat
09-27-2018, 01:07 PM
Oh yeah. The year DT beat the Steelers.

Fify

dogfish
09-27-2018, 01:41 PM
case has just been playing possum. . .

Poet
09-27-2018, 01:41 PM
case has just been playing possum. . .

For his entire ******* career!?!?!?

dogfish
09-27-2018, 01:46 PM
For his entire ******* career!?!?!?

it's called the long game. . .

Poet
09-27-2018, 01:49 PM
it's called the long game. . .

He has a noodle-arm! He hates the long game!

Valar Morghulis
09-27-2018, 01:54 PM
Keebum sucks at the long game, the intermediate game and the short game

Poet
09-27-2018, 01:56 PM
Keebum sucks at the long game, the intermediate game and the short game

The Vikings roster was so good it made CK look good.

Do I hate CK as much as TS? No. Do I think it's funny that people bashed Zimmer for openly questioning which CK was the real CK? Yeah.

Valar Morghulis
09-27-2018, 01:59 PM
The Vikings roster was so good it made CK look good.

Do I hate CK as much as TS? No. Do I think it's funny that people bashed Zimmer for openly questioning which CK was the real CK? Yeah.

See i don't hate TS - he turned out to be a terrible qb, but he was a late round pick that outplayed everyone else on the roster, he was worth a shot to see if he could make the jump to the next level - but keebum was a known quantity. That annoys me more.

Its not his fault - he is litterally doing his best, but he sucks and i hate him for it lol

Poet
09-27-2018, 02:03 PM
See i don't hate TS - he turned out to be a terrible qb, but he was a late round pick that outplayed everyone else on the roster, he was worth a shot to see if he could make the jump to the next level - but keebum was a known quantity. That annoys me more.

Its not his fault - he is litterally doing his best, but he sucks and i hate him for it lol

I hate TS because he's one of the worst QB's I've ever seen. He had nice mobility but used it to run into defenders, backwards for sacks, and never used it to step up in the pocket when he could.

Everyone talked about how smart he was, but he never showed he understood coverages, was too stupid to ever audible worth a shit, threw awful INTS, and he just failed. He was never worth a shot because he could never jump to the next level - you might as well have asked him to grow wings and fly. He was a waste of time and other resources.

Keenum is a known quantity and everyone but use knew he sucked. It is his fault because CK is selfish. He holds onto the ball to make big plays because he wants to prove he's the man. He's not the man. He can never be the man. But he's changing his style of play to validate himself.

Freyaka
09-27-2018, 02:07 PM
For his entire ******* career!?!?!?

He's like next-level styling the NFL and their fans. Just you wait man, he's going to show the real case soon....


At least that's how it would work in the twilight zone.

Nomad
09-27-2018, 02:42 PM
Keenum gonna light the KC defense up. They’ll be calling him Volta after this game.

Ground Control
09-28-2018, 09:12 PM
He's like next-level styling the NFL and their fans. Just you wait man, he's going to show the real case soon....


At least that's how it would work in the twilight zone.

More like the Red Zone! We are all just witnesses to Keenum's greatness unfolding. Scrappy Doo will wow us all and bring the Broncos to the playoffs, mark my very important words!

dogfish
10-02-2018, 10:06 PM
okay, i admit it. . . i've given up on the guy. . . john has to do the right thing, and stop dicking around with these stopgap QBs. . . if he's not willing to take another chance on drafting and playing a young one, this franchise is likely to be stuck in no-man's land for the foreseeable future. . . the odds that we'll ever luck into another manning situation are extremely remote. . . #7 has to make some tough choices, put aside his competitive pride, and make the proper decision for the future of the organization. . . it's not like you can't win quickly in today's NFL with a young signal caller-- quite the opposite, in fact. . .

aberdien
10-02-2018, 10:12 PM
I don't know how Elway didn't die from embarrassment after watching the coaching staff blow playcalls and Keenum overthrow a wide open DT at Mile High stadium.

Poet
10-02-2018, 10:17 PM
Honestly Elway is lucky the organization is in flux because one could argue he should be fired. I don't believe that myself, but he's pretty much a moron regarding quarterbacks.

This morbid, as Fish said, no-man's land is something I started to see approach us as soon as we signed Kubiak's waterboy. I just wish Keenum would retire and stop stealing money.

tripp
10-02-2018, 10:41 PM
Lol firing Elway would be the worst mistake this organization could make. I'm not saying that because of the player he was, I'm saying that because he won us a SB as a VP of operations/GM.

He definitely needs help when it comes to finding QB talent, he's 1/5 (Osweiler, Siemian, Lynch and now Keenum).

There's tons of shit GM's out there that would love to vacate the job in Denver, just like the shit HC we have now in VJ when we were hoping Kubiak would retire.

Poet
10-02-2018, 10:42 PM
I wouldn't fire him. I like him as a GM, mostly. He just has one massive deficiency.

tripp
10-02-2018, 10:44 PM
I wouldn't fire him. I like him as a GM, mostly. He just has one massive deficiency.

Big time, I thought maybe having Kubiak in the front office helping him find talent would be a major plus, but I don't know. I think he needs some better scouts. He needs something lol

Poet
10-02-2018, 10:51 PM
Kubiak is pretty stupid, and loved Keenum. Kubiak is never the answer unless the question is "how do we get Phillips as our DC."

HORSEPOWER 56
10-02-2018, 10:52 PM
Big time, I thought maybe having Kubiak in the front office helping him find talent would be a major plus, but I don't know. I think he needs some better scouts. He needs something lol

This is the #1 problem. Kubiak likes Kubiak guys. Siemian and Keenum. They’re his boys. Elway trusts Kubiak to get him a QB after failing with Oz. It’s gotten worse. I think I’d rather have Oz right now than Keenum.

tripp
10-02-2018, 10:55 PM
This is the #1 problem. Kubiak likes Kubiak guys. Siemian and Keenum. They’re his boys. Elway trusts Kubiak to get him a QB after failing with Oz. It’s gotten worse. I think I’d rather have Oz right now than Keenum.

Honestly I think I'd rather Keenum, but both are shit. It's like picking your poison. I'm not wishing for the season to be over sitting at 2-2, but if it's going to be like this for the rest of the season, I'm going to need to drink more during games

ShaneFalco
10-02-2018, 11:03 PM
This is the #1 problem. Kubiak likes Kubiak guys. Siemian and Keenum. They’re his boys. Elway trusts Kubiak to get him a QB after failing with Oz. It’s gotten worse. I think I’d rather have Oz right now than Keenum.

at least the can get the balls to the recievers and tight ends streaming wide open down the field. Keesum lacks the balls

dogfish
10-03-2018, 12:41 AM
finding QBs is hard. . . ozzie newsome is the best GM of his generation, he's drafted at least four sure-fire hall of famers-- and he's never found a stud QB. . .

MOtorboat
10-03-2018, 12:42 AM
finding QBs is hard. . . ozzie newsome is the best GM of his generation, he's drafted at least four sure-fire hall of famers-- and he's never found a stud QB. . .

He’s also stuck with the same mediocre one for 11 years...

Poet
10-03-2018, 08:05 AM
finding QBs is hard. . . ozzie newsome is the best GM of his generation, he's drafted at least four sure-fire hall of famers-- and he's never found a stud QB. . .

He was involved in the front office for their first SB, and then built the team that contended for awhile and then won one. Of course it's hard, but we're not exactly seeing contention after the SB win. And yeah, props to getting Manning and then building a defense to nail the SB win down. But building that defense was predicated on having Manning, it made Denver attractive to other players.

In the post Manning world we've been floundering, Fish. I think Elways drafting is a little underrated. I don't doubt his ability to work in free agency, either. It's just...we literally signed Case Keenum and everyone but us knew it was probably wrong. We rolled with TS for two years. One of the best talents at the position, ever, is rolling with guys who aren't any good and have little ability.

We've seen teams be rewarded for moving up in the draft and nabbing their guy. Sometimes you pay handsomely to do it. So what? Yeah, if you miss you're hosed, but most GM's dont get multiple shots at drafting a QB high.

Freyaka
10-03-2018, 08:18 AM
Big time, I thought maybe having Kubiak in the front office helping him find talent would be a major plus, but I don't know. I think he needs some better scouts. He needs something lol

Kubiak's the one that brought keenum in and originally went after him in houston. It's clear Kubiak's no better at judging QB talent than John is.

Northman
10-03-2018, 05:40 PM
So how are we all feeling about our 18th ranked QB in the NFL? Lol

Hawgdriver
10-03-2018, 11:18 PM
So how are we all feeling about our 18th ranked QB in the NFL? Lol

I thought we decided to move on from Siemian, but I understand the cap math. Still, seems like you need a QB to win in this league.

Elevation inc
10-04-2018, 06:07 AM
So how are we all feeling about our 18th ranked QB in the NFL? Lol


18% okay and 82% pissed off lol

Elevation inc
10-04-2018, 06:17 AM
I don't think the sky is falling yet, and he is saying the right things but lets call a spade a spade, he hasn't played very well until patches later in the game, and last week he choked. We aren't getting our moneys worth right now at all. He isn't consistent, is forcing to many balls, turning the ball over to much etc. Our play calling hasn't helped, Bolles is regressing rapidly, and were not focusing on the run which we should be doing either but he is playing like poop lol. We aren't getting what we paid for, were just getting a more expensive version of brock or Trevor. The leadership skills are better, and he has won games I didn't think we would in the 4th qtr. I have more faith we can pull some magic late then any point in the last 2 years, but dude is playing like trash for about 80% of every game so far. We aren't spending 18 mil for that kind of production. VJ better be careful cause if this bad play continues, I don't think Elway would hesitate at end of season to get rid of either of them.

Broncoknight30
10-04-2018, 06:27 AM
I want to see what Chad Kelly is. Cause after this season (and it will be a disaster) I would not want them spending a first rounder on a QB when it could be that Kelly is dynamic. He certainly showed something in preseason. That was after an entire year off.

I am not going to be suffering from delusions of grandeur in regards to Keenum. I will save those delusions or HOPE for Kelly, and the only real way he is going to get in there is if Keenum is benched or if he gets hurt.

I will reiterate. I want to see Kelly in there, and see how he does.

Canmore
10-04-2018, 08:09 AM
I want to see what Chad Kelly is. Cause after this season (and it will be a disaster) I would not want them spending a first rounder on a QB when it could be that Kelly is dynamic. He certainly showed something in preseason. That was after an entire year off.

I am not going to be suffering from delusions of grandeur in regards to Keenum. I will save those delusions or HOPE for Kelly, and the only real way he is going to get in there is if Keenum is benched or if he gets hurt.

I will reiterate. I want to see Kelly in there, and see how he does.

Keenum definitely isn't it. I'd like to see Kelly too.

Broncoknight30
10-04-2018, 08:28 AM
Keenum definitely isn't it. I'd like to see Kelly too.

I also think Bolles AT BEST is a guard. He is overwhelmed at the LT position. His feet simply are not quick enough for the position. Not against the elite rushers and I don't think it would make much difference if anyone was in there at QB. Cause if tbe blindside is going to be crushed like that, then nothing matters.

One main reason why I have this feeling of hopelessness. Here are the factors that are simply too much to overcome.

1. Coaching staff is imcompetent and way over their head.
2. The primary QB is not adequate enough to overcome major weaknesses.
3. The jury as of now is out on Bolles and he is a bust.
4. Elway is either suffering from cte or drunk or both.

Krugan
10-04-2018, 09:51 AM
ill tell you what will happen when kelly gets in, after the Broncos lose 4 with him playing, and he throws multiple picks, and is sacked because he holds the ball to long and our oline is still suspect to boot, the same fan base that want him in will be claiming he sucks and is a bust, because its what you all do.

There is no patience anymore...

Poet
10-04-2018, 09:57 AM
ill tell you what will happen when kelly gets in, after the Broncos lose 4 with him playing, and he throws multiple picks, and is sacked because he holds the ball to long and our oline is still suspect to boot, the same fan base that want him in will be claiming he sucks and is a bust, because its what you all do.

There is no patience anymore...

And that would be wrong for the fans to do. Reasonable fans would watch a talented upstart go through the growing pains that other QB's are suffering or experiencing today. Cleveland fans aren't mad at Mayfield, who has had issues. Goff wasn't burned alive by Rams fans two years ago, etc. It's contextual.

The irony is that what you just described is the level of play we are getting from Keenum. You are a heartfelt man.

BroncoJoe
10-04-2018, 10:11 AM
I still maintain some hope. He isn't as good or bad as some have said, and still maintain today.

That said, I do believe that Kelly just has that "it" factor. You can see it, almost feel it. Even though we can't explain what "it" is, we know he's got it.

Northman
10-04-2018, 10:11 AM
There is a massive difference between a guy who is basically a rookie and another who is a journeyman QB. This isnt to say that Kelly is the answer but smart fans tend to be more patient with a guy who is expected to struggle as opposed to a vet who is supposed to be playing at a much higher level and was brought in to lead the team to wins. At least if Kelly started from here on out we would have a pretty good idea where he is at by season's end but treading water with Keenum right now isnt doing anyone favors and there certainly isnt anything that Kelly can possibly learn from Case who is just a below average QB.

BroncoJoe
10-04-2018, 10:13 AM
There is a massive difference between a guy who is basically a rookie and another who is a journeyman QB. This isnt to say that Kelly is the answer but smart fans tend to be more patient with a guy who is expected to struggle as opposed to a vet who is supposed to be playing at a much higher level and was brought in to lead the team to wins. At least if Kelly started from here on out we would have a pretty good idea where he is at by season's end but treading water with Keenum right now isnt doing anyone favors and there certainly isnt anything that Kelly can possibly learn from Case who is just a below average QB.

The only caveat to this is, there have been plenty of journeyman/below average QB's that went on to become excellent mentors and coaches. Many understand the game, they just can't physically apply it on the field.

Northman
10-04-2018, 10:15 AM
The only caveat to this is, there have been plenty of journeyman/below average QB's that went on to become excellent mentors and coaches. Many understand the game, they just can't physically apply it on the field.

Yea, i just dont think Keenum is one of them unfortunately.

BroncoJoe
10-04-2018, 10:16 AM
Yea, i just dont think Keenum is one of them unfortunately.

I getcha. The jury is still out in my mind.

Krugan
10-04-2018, 10:44 AM
Funny though, we just went thru this with a young kid who needed to go thru growing pains and physical pains and he was destroyed verbally and sadly physically...2 guys actually

Northman
10-04-2018, 10:56 AM
If you are referring to both Lynch and Siemian i think it was pretty obvious neither were going to be the answer. Siemian hit his ceiling and Lynch never improved after 3 years on the bench and some playing time. Oz? Same thing.

Krugan
10-04-2018, 10:57 AM
And that would be wrong for the fans to do. Reasonable fans would watch a talented upstart go through the growing pains that other QB's are suffering or experiencing today. Cleveland fans aren't mad at Mayfield, who has had issues. Goff wasn't burned alive by Rams fans two years ago, etc. It's contextual.

The irony is that what you just described is the level of play we are getting from Keenum. You are a heartfelt man.

This really isnt about any other team, just what ive witnessed from our fan base, and im guilty too. We just have win now mentality because we are spoiled, and have been for a long time.

Krugan
10-04-2018, 10:58 AM
If you are referring to both Lynch and Siemian i think it was pretty obvious neither were going to be the answer. Siemian hit his ceiling and Lynch never improved after 3 years on the bench and some playing time. Oz? Same thing.

It really will be no different, denial is fine, but as a fan base we have no patience.

The next guy will get picked apart and all the flaws will be magnified until its blown out of proportion.

Just read thru the last 7 years of posts...

underrated29
10-04-2018, 11:01 AM
Really, and I hate to hate to hate to say this, but we need someone to injure case just for a game or two. Maybe just aggravate the knee that he needs a few weeks rest. Ive been a big supporter of kelly since the draft. We need to see what he can do. He needs to play few games for us.

The reason why we need to know now is because Elway is in love with the Oregon QB Herbert. Loves him! If Chad is legit then we do not need Herbie! If not, then sell the farm to move up to get him! Which wont be too bad since we will probably pick around 10 or 11 this year anyway. However, if chad is not the guy then we need to move up to #1 or #2 or wherever we can land Herbert.

Northman
10-04-2018, 11:01 AM
Denial of what? Are you seriously saying that those players are starting caliber QB's? Lol

VonDoom
10-04-2018, 11:06 AM
Keenum has the lowest passer rating inside the pocket this year. Oof:

https://twitter.com/nflmatchup/status/1047838504816979969?s=21

Freyaka
10-04-2018, 11:10 AM
Yea, i just dont think Keenum is one of them unfortunately.

Keenum is definitely smart. He's physically lacking. I wouldn't mind keeping him around as a backup (at a greatly reduced contract) and finding a starter elsewhere. Keenum is good in a backup role and I kind of think of him along the lines of the Kubiak to some QB's Elway. Keenum doesn't have the physical tools to get it done, but like Joe is saying, I think he has football smarts. I've listened to him talk and seen him play enough to know he's got a good football mind, he just can't put it together consistently on the field.

Canmore
10-04-2018, 11:14 AM
ill tell you what will happen when kelly gets in, after the Broncos lose 4 with him playing, and he throws multiple picks, and is sacked because he holds the ball to long and our oline is still suspect to boot, the same fan base that want him in will be claiming he sucks and is a bust, because its what you all do.

There is no patience anymore...

Keenum's arm strength is suspect at best. Patience isn't going to do anything except prolong the inevitable.

Krugan
10-04-2018, 11:28 AM
Denial of what? Are you seriously saying that those players are starting caliber QB's? Lol

Not what im saying at all, but go ahead and go there if you need to...

Freyaka
10-04-2018, 11:46 AM
What's weird, Case is the worst QB in the pocket, his QBR when throwing from the pocket is terrible.

He's 6th best outside the pocket. Could we just get Kubiak to revive the old Jake Plummer offense for Case and just bootleg all day?

wayninja
10-04-2018, 11:48 AM
We could have aggressively pursued Cousins. We didn't even try. Maybe he didn't want to come here no matter what, I don't know, but I got the impression from the FO, that they weren't even interested in Cousins as they had their heart set on Keenum.

This is after moving up to draft Lynch who clearly isn't as talented as we thought.

I think it's time that we re-evaluate who is evaluating this position.

Freyaka
10-04-2018, 11:51 AM
We could have aggressively pursued Cousins. We didn't even try. Maybe he didn't want to come here no matter what, I don't know, but I got the impression from the FO, that they weren't even interested in Cousins as they had their heart set on Keenum.

This is after moving up to draft Lynch who clearly isn't as talented as we thought.

I think it's time that we re-evaluate who is evaluating this position.

I don't think it's time to toss Elway out on his ass yet, but he needs to bring someone (not Kubiak) in to help him evaluate QB talent. They nailed this draft, but they can't draft a QB to save their life, it's time to find someone who can help there.

BigDaddyBronco
10-04-2018, 12:16 PM
We could have aggressively pursued Cousins. We didn't even try. Maybe he didn't want to come here no matter what, I don't know, but I got the impression from the FO, that they weren't even interested in Cousins as they had their heart set on Keenum.

This is after moving up to draft Lynch who clearly isn't as talented as we thought.

I think it's time that we re-evaluate who is evaluating this position.

Cousins was all in on the Vikings day one. The Jets were his second option, and the Broncos his third. To make the money work for Cousins would have had major implications on the Broncos roster beyond releasing Talib. Should Elway do that to sign a guy who isn't a 1st or maybe even a 2nd tier QB? As soon as the money got out of hand, he had to back off. Even if he didn't, he would have had to overpay even more to get him to not go to the Vikings.

I think it is fair to question why Elway didn't draft a QB at 5 or even why he didn't trade up like the Jets did to maybe even the 2 pick the Giants had, but I can't find much fault with the Cousins thing. Cousins went where he wanted to go.

Northman
10-04-2018, 12:23 PM
Lmao

wayninja
10-04-2018, 12:38 PM
I don't think it's time to toss Elway out on his ass yet, but he needs to bring someone (not Kubiak) in to help him evaluate QB talent. They nailed this draft, but they can't draft a QB to save their life, it's time to find someone who can help there.

I'm not looking to toss Elway, I just think he needs to restrain himself from this aspect of the business. No one is good at everything, and clearly Elway needs help at evaluating this position. Getting himself that help would be... helpful. It definitely looks like a promising draft class so far, but Jury is still out. Ironically our first pick (which we could have used for a QB, just sayin') seems to be underperforming. Like my own advice though, I'm not great at evaluating defense, so I'll leave that to those I trust to tell me how he's doing. So far my gut tells me he's ok, but not starting as strong as we'd like to have seen.



Cousins was all in on the Vikings day one. The Jets were his second option, and the Broncos his third. To make the money work for Cousins would have had major implications on the Broncos roster beyond releasing Talib.

All of this is fair, I didn't follow closely enough to dispute any of it, but my point is more about the Broncos interest level. They didn't seem interested at all. Maybe that's a function of not really being in contention, I don't know.

But going all in on 2018 with Case Keenum seems/seemed like a dubious alternative to me. That seems to be playing out. I guess there's still a lot of football left, but I can't say that I like or am even surprised at what I've been seeing. Maybe he'll turn it around? I'm not optimistic.


Should Elway do that to sign a guy who isn't a 1st or maybe even a 2nd tier QB? As soon as the money got out of hand, he had to back off. Even if he didn't, he would have had to overpay even more to get him to not go to the Vikings.

In a word; Yes. You do whatever it takes to get a good QB. It seems to me like it's only one-offs at best for teams that don't have a good QB that run deep into January. So, if you can get someone who you KNOW is good, you do what it takes. Elway already did that with PFM. I would argue that we are already extremely overpaid at the position for our current price to performance.


I think it is fair to question why Elway didn't draft a QB at 5 or even why he didn't trade up like the Jets did to maybe even the 2 pick the Giants had, but I can't find much fault with the Cousins thing. Cousins went where he wanted to go.

Yes. Again, ignore the result of Cousins and focus more on the interest level in him. I didn't think we'd get him, but I was surprised that the FO didn't even seem interested. Maybe that's explainable. But Case over a QB at 5? That's starting to pan out as it statistically looked from the start. Get help, John!

Poet
10-04-2018, 12:40 PM
Cousins was all in on the Vikings day one. The Jets were his second option, and the Broncos his third. To make the money work for Cousins would have had major implications on the Broncos roster beyond releasing Talib. Should Elway do that to sign a guy who isn't a 1st or maybe even a 2nd tier QB? As soon as the money got out of hand, he had to back off. Even if he didn't, he would have had to overpay even more to get him to not go to the Vikings.

I think it is fair to question why Elway didn't draft a QB at 5 or even why he didn't trade up like the Jets did to maybe even the 2 pick the Giants had, but I can't find much fault with the Cousins thing. Cousins went where he wanted to go.

He didn't want to be here because he thought the franchise was unstable was what I read. I think a part of that is VJ. Cousins was obviously a top ten QB - his last year in Washington with a bunch of anonymous skill position players he had a fine campaign, showing that he wasn't just a product of his earlier, very talented teams.

Also, regarding the comment about a guy who isnt'a first or second tier QB, Keenum's best season put him as a second tier QB. It put him in Andy Dalton land. And that's giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he wasn't a one year wonder.

In regards to a QB, the more I think about it the more I think we should have taken Rosen. But, Rosen isn't an Elway guy. Elway loved Lynch because PL was nothing but pure physical talent, and Elway loves the 'gamer' type QBs like TS and CK. Rosen is a top notch talent, but not a uber freak, and I guess Elway didn't like other parts of Rosen's persona. Granted, Chubb being available made it harder, but god damn this season just shows that it's QB or bust.

underrated29
10-04-2018, 12:53 PM
Qbs are so hard. So many GMs and coaches draft QBs that bust. I think it is pretty ridiculous to blame elway for missing on 2 of them. (Pax and Brock)....This is why there are so many teams that go into mediocrity when they do not have a good QB. And why so many reach for QBs- most of whom bust. The raiders and chefs have been reaching and whiffing for a while. They both just finally found their guy. The jets have been whiffing for decades. The bucs too. The Browns always. Every team does this.


I think it is dumb to say Elway cant evaluate nor find QBs. They loved Wilson (but stupidly took brock over him). They loved Wentz but couldnt trade up to get him. They liked Mayfield and Darnold. Elway loves the herbert kid at oregon. They really liked Dak (who btw is exactly as I said he would be- WAVE!!!?) Many teams draft many QBs until they can get one.

I still want to trade for Andrew luck somehow.

slim
10-04-2018, 12:56 PM
I still want to trade for Andrew luck somehow.

This is inevitable. We just have to be patient

Broncoknight30
10-04-2018, 01:32 PM
I think it is kind of funny that Keenum has more wins this year..that's funny.

Freyaka
10-04-2018, 01:38 PM
This is inevitable. We just have to be patient

All colt's become broncos. We're due another superbowl win with a Colt QB. I can't wait to see who the colts draft as our next QB after Luck.

Poet
10-04-2018, 01:47 PM
I think it is kind of funny that Keenum has more wins this year..that's funny.

Keenum continues to get lucky - Poor Cousins goes to the Vikings and then their defense implodes.

Broncoknight30
10-04-2018, 03:13 PM
Keenum continues to get lucky - Poor Cousins goes to the Vikings and then their defense implodes.

I think it is sort of funnier that the Redskins (who I think will win that division) all of a sudden have a great defense through the first quarter. Weird.

Northman
10-04-2018, 03:16 PM
Keenum continues to get lucky - Poor Cousins goes to the Vikings and then their defense implodes.

Defense implodes, kicker misses game winning FG's.

Magnificent Seven
10-04-2018, 03:39 PM
I think Keenum would be a solid back up QB. Chad Kelly should be a starting QB. He proved himself in pre-season.

Broncoknight30
10-04-2018, 03:40 PM
Defense implodes, kicker misses game winning FG's.

And gets a benefit from a chicken shit call that has garnered the QB stats to be utterly ridiculous. Whole season deserves an asterisk. Thats funny too.

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2018/09/17/e53b5c54-c589-4d81-8a85-267b9e7a0d7f/thumbnail/1200x675/9e258af3cfad9216bf40cdd8cdf2b35a/screen-shot-2018-09-16-at-6-17-39-pm.png

Northman
10-04-2018, 03:43 PM
Lmao

Northman
10-04-2018, 03:46 PM
Qb's benefit yet our QB cant. That is quite funny you are right.

BroncoWave
10-04-2018, 03:54 PM
I think Keenum would be a solid back up QB. Chad Kelly should be a starting QB. He proved himself in pre-season.

I was encouraged by Kelly in the preseason, but I don't think he proved that he should be a starter. He really came back down to earth in that last game.

Having said that I'd like to see what he can do as the starter, but he's far from having proven anything.

Bronco4ever
10-04-2018, 04:05 PM
To me, it's not even that Kelly has necessarily deserved the starting position, but is Keenum's play THAT much better than what Kelly could do? I'm almost certain Kelly would have some bumps in the road, but Keenum has certainly already had his bumps. I'm pretty sure Kelly could go 3 games without a TD pass like Keenum just has. At least Kelly is young and may have the potential to develop into a starting QB. They could be valuable reps for him moving forward. Keenum is just a placeholder until we find something else. We might as well see if that something else is Kelly.

Broncoknight30
10-04-2018, 04:07 PM
Qb's benefit yet our QB cant. That is quite funny you are right.

I know, and the funniest part is how he has more wins than Cousins so far. Why is that not funny to you?

Northman
10-04-2018, 04:09 PM
I know, and the funniest part is how he has more wins than Cousins so far. Why is that not funny to you?

Because anyone who thinks that Vikings record is based off of Cousins play (bar the Bills game) is the reason for their record is quite dumb. Lol

Broncoknight30
10-04-2018, 04:19 PM
Because anyone who thinks that Vikings record is based off of Cousins play (bar the Bills game) is the reason for their record is quite dumb. Lol

And yet we link wins to QBs all of the time. Maybe he could have led the team to more than 6 points at home against the Bills.

I forgot his excuse that day. Outlier? Yeah, outlier.

Keenum sucks. No doubt. What I am trying to get at is paying a huge contract to a QB doesn't guarantee shit.

If the Broncos did pay Cousins ALL OF THAT MONEY, what would that have meant?


No one knows. If that translates to wins, then please. Someone explain why he did not win much in Washington? He did well, and I like his game faaaar more than Keenum, but not for that price.

In a hard cap league, wise spending is more imperative.

Proving out to be true this year too.

Northman
10-04-2018, 04:27 PM
We link success and championships to QB's because that has proven to be the case. I could rehash all this again but it just wont sink in so its a wasted debate at this point. You can keep trying to use the defense wins all mantra but as this last game showed that is not the case (pun intended). You still need a QB to win or does Mahomes suck too? Lmao