The Future is Here, Thomas. Keep being a Bronco Hero.

[Ground Control]

I know you'll get it together soon. It's hard to weed through the year to year stats, but I have seen comparisons that show you to be no higher than the mean in dropped passes. And you're a freaking Broncos Stud and future ring of famer, at the very least. But the drops really suck in nail-biter games like the ones we're probably going to experience until this offense truly gels and Keenum works out all his kinks.

The future is here in the form of Sutton and Tim Patrick, DT. Hamilton as well, but he's more Sander's protege. Right now Sanders is WR #1, which I'm sure you're OK with, as he is your brother and deserving. Start showing the rookies why you're are a living Bronco's legend. Otherwise, we no longer have to endure the drops, while waiting for the highlights. There is no doubt you still give your all every play but that can be an asset to a team in the tape room as well.

Just saying. You're the freaking man DT. Start being the man. Otherwise, we have options now. Competition is good.

[Shazam!]

DT will be gone next year. No question in my mind. He's done. But that doesnt mean we will not respect him and what he had done for the Broncos.

[Ground Control]

DT will be gone next year. No question in my mind. He's done. But that doesnt mean we will not respect him and what he had done for the Broncos.

Agreed. Sutton is no joke, it's only a matter of how they use him this year. Patrick has shown he's got hard potential, so it's all up to him. Either way, I see no reason why DT is a better option than them next year. It's all about how he chooses to go out. I'm a believer but if I'm wrong, we can't lose by moving past him. Again, so happy with this last draft and post-draft acquisitions. Kudos to Elway.

[slim]

nMVnLsODqqg

[BroncoWave]

DT will be gone next year. No question in my mind. He's done. But that doesnt mean we will not respect him and what he had done for the Broncos.

Agreed. He'll go down as one of the two best WR ever to put on a broncos uniform, but he just isn't the same guy anymore. I'll be shocked if he's back next year.

[Shazam!]

DT will be gone next year. No question in my mind. He's done. But that doesnt mean we will not respect him and what he had done for the Broncos.

Agreed. He'll go down as one of the two best WR ever to put on a broncos uniform, but he just isn't the same guy anymore. I'll be shocked if he's back next year.

Sanders may be out too.

[Poet]

I love him, but I would be shocked to see him back next year.

[BroncoWave]

Sanders may be out too.

I think we'll keep Sanders. He's still as good as he's ever been.

[FanInAZ]

Agreed. He'll go down as one of the two best WR ever to put on a broncos uniform, but he just isn't the same guy anymore. I'll be shocked if he's back next year.

I'd put both Sanders & Smith ahead of him without a second's though, but DT isn't going to drop too much further down the list.

[broncofaninfla]

DT is one of the more over rated players in the league. He's being paid like a top tier WR and he's anything but. His hands are inconsistent and he's anything but clutch anymore. DT doesn't deserve the high rep count he is getting, the Broncos would be better served to start getting Sutton and Patrick more involved with the offense. Competition has seemed to have helped Sanders but DT seems like the same old DT.

[Valar Morghulis]

Surprised he doesn't get more hate because of the anthem shenanigans

[BeefStew25]

Surprised he doesn't get more hate because of the anthem shenanigans

Grabbing the tunnel is better than taking a knee. And no one cares anymore. And he beat the Steelers.

[Valar Morghulis]

Grabbing the tunnel is better than taking a knee. And no one cares anymore. And he beat the Steelers.

Tebow beat the Steelers

[underrated29]

He or sanders will be gone next year. I think it’s sanders personally and DT takes a pay cut. Sanders is playing for a contract and he wants out and Big Big bucks! He will not stay here. Since he won’t stay we will keep dt and have him redo his contract. That’s at least is how I see things unfolding. Dt esta capitan.

[GEM]

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[underrated29]

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Nibb high football rules!

[Shazam!]

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I wouldn't mind being in a room with you :)

[Jsteve01]

He has garnered undue ire from Broncos fans over the years. It is hilarious that Broncos fans talk up Smith who I also love and forget how much he struggled with easy drops in his career. I still remember Smiths first touchdown and then being baffled by the way he would make circus catches one moment and drop easy balls the next. It got better later in his career but still happened.

DT for my money is the most dominant receiver to ever lace them up for our team. He was a matchup nightmare and those who dont acknowledge how much his presence opened up balls for others like Sanders are just being spiteful.

[BroncoWave]

He has garnered undue ire from Broncos fans over the years. It is hilarious that Broncos fans talk up Smith who I also love and forget how much he struggled with easy drops in his career. I still remember Smiths first touchdown and then being baffled by the way he would make circus catches one moment and drop easy balls the next. It got better later in his career but still happened.

DT for my money is the most dominant receiver to ever lace them up for our team. He was a matchup nightmare and those who dont acknowledge how much his presence opened up balls for others like Sanders are just being spiteful.

You just highlighted the key difference between Smith and DT. Smith got better throughout his career. DTs hands have gotten worse and worse. I don't think anyone has denied that he has been a dominant WR for us in the past. But the fact of the matter is that he is not that anymore. That doesn't mean anyone hates him or is spiteful of him. Just recognizing the reality of the situation.

[Mike]

When he was on his game he was dominant. I just don't think he has been on his game enough since Denver gave him $$. To me, he has left a lot on the field....with his size, speed, talent, he could have been one of the best.

[NightTerror218]

I think DT will be approached about a pay cut or gone depending on how he finishes the year. Sander is the go to guy right now.

[BeefStew25]

It’s a long season and DT will gel.

[Poet]

He is the most disrespected player in the history of this website. Even more so than Tom Brady. He literally won week one for us...

You are bad people.

[Shazam!]

He is the most disrespected player in the history of this website. Even more so than Tom Brady. He literally won week one for us...

You are bad people.

Dude is done, and he *somehow had a drop in performance when he got the big money.

Thanks for the memories DT, you're forever etched in Broncos' lore.

[Poet]

Dude is done, and he *somehow had a drop in performance when he got the big money.

Thanks for the memories DT, you're forever etched in Broncos' lore.

It's almost as if when you're tasked with some of the worst QB's in the league your performance goes down. I hate to break this to you, but Sanders' numbers went down, too. Oh, it's about the money? Well I would have been interested to see how well the other high priced WR's would have done in the same situation.

[BeefStew25]

He’s going to blow up and it will be crickets in here.

[BeefStew25]

Also, Jake Plummer sucks.

[Shazam!]

Dude is done, and he *somehow had a drop in performance when he got the big money.

Thanks for the memories DT, you're forever etched in Broncos' lore.

It's almost as if when you're tasked with some of the worst QB's in the league your performance goes down. I hate to break this to you, but Sanders' numbers went down, too. Oh, it's about the money? Well I would have been interested to see how well the other high priced WR's would have done in the same situation.

Says the Bengals fan?

[Poet]

Says the Bengals fan?

Who is that? That poor ******* should become a Broncos fan. I can help with his or her transition to the proper team.

[Jsteve01]

He’s going to blow up and it will be crickets in here.

I would love to see this. He is one of my favorites. I think what a great attitude he has is often understated. Again he and Rod, two of the greats and obviously the two best in history of the Broncos were also the anti-diva or the anti typical receiver Persona if you will. That in and of itself with the production that he gave us has to be acknowledged.

[Northman]

He has garnered undue ire from Broncos fans over the years. It is hilarious that Broncos fans talk up Smith who I also love and forget how much he struggled with easy drops in his career. I still remember Smiths first touchdown and then being baffled by the way he would make circus catches one moment and drop easy balls the next. It got better later in his career but still happened.

DT for my money is the most dominant receiver to ever lace them up for our team. He was a matchup nightmare and those who dont acknowledge how much his presence opened up balls for others like Sanders are just being spiteful.

Biggest bullshit take ever.

I love how you shit all over Sanders and Smith though. :lol:

[Northman]

When he was on his game he was dominant. I just don't think he has been on his game enough since Denver gave him $$. To me, he has left a lot on the field....with his size, speed, talent, he could have been one of the best.

Quit being spiteful.

[BeefStew25]

He’s gonna make some catch with two dudes draped all over him. Makes up for the lame drops. Plus he’s not an idiot.

[Jsteve01]

He has garnered undue ire from Broncos fans over the years. It is hilarious that Broncos fans talk up Smith who I also love and forget how much he struggled with easy drops in his career. I still remember Smiths first touchdown and then being baffled by the way he would make circus catches one moment and drop easy balls the next. It got better later in his career but still happened.

DT for my money is the most dominant receiver to ever lace them up for our team. He was a matchup nightmare and those who dont acknowledge how much his presence opened up balls for others like Sanders are just being spiteful.

Biggest bullshit take ever.

I love how you shit all over Sanders and Smith though. :lol:

Well let's do this North we haven't had a good argument for a while. Nowhere in that post that I shit on either of those guys. I said and it's true that Rod Smith had a problem with drops during his career. He would make a circus catch and then he would drop. I've also stated numerous times that he and DT are neck-and-neck for 1 and 2 in the receiver race. And it's no joke there is no one in the league that would say that Sanders During the period of dominance that we saw with those two was the better of the two receivers. Sure Demaryius really benefited from having Sanders on the same Squad. But I guarantee you if you're a defensive coordinator or a defensive back coach Demaryius Thomas during their Prime is always getting the number one corner

[Northman]

Well let's do this North we haven't had a good argument for a while. Nowhere in that post that I shit on either of those guys. I said and it's true that Rod Smith had a problem with drops during his career. He would make a circus catch and then he would drop. I've also stated numerous times that he and DT are neck-and-neck for 1 and 2 in the receiver race. And it's no joke there is no one in the league that would say that Sanders During the period of dominance that we saw with those two was the better of the two receivers. Sure Demaryius really benefited from having Sanders on the same Squad. But I guarantee you if you're a defensive coordinator or a defensive back coach Demaryius Thomas during their Prime is always getting the number one corner

I cant ever remember Smith dropping wide open passes in the biggest moments, at least after his early years in the league. While DT is the more athletic and more talented of the two they couldnt be more apart in terms of reliability as DT even had this issue with Manning. Of course DT will draw the #1 corner because that is expected for a guy who is the top paid receiver on the team. My problem with your post though has more to do with the absurd notion that people are being spiteful, thats just flat out false. If you are going to shovel out a lot of money on a player (no matter the postion) you expect that player to come through in the biggest moments of the game. In the last game it just so happened to be a rookie who made the play that could of or should of been our #1 guy. Im sorry, ive never seen Rod do that or even McCaffery while i think about it. As i said the other day, DT is a great player and one of the best in the league but he does have a issue with drops that seem to stand out a lot more than ive seen from other receivers of his caliber. Maybe he is just at the twilight of his career, maybe he got his ring and payday and doesnt care anymore i dont know. But its not spiteful to point out the obvious problems that he does have, thats just a retarded and lazy take.

[Jsteve01]

Well let's do this North we haven't had a good argument for a while. Nowhere in that post that I shit on either of those guys. I said and it's true that Rod Smith had a problem with drops during his career. He would make a circus catch and then he would drop. I've also stated numerous times that he and DT are neck-and-neck for 1 and 2 in the receiver race. And it's no joke there is no one in the league that would say that Sanders During the period of dominance that we saw with those two was the better of the two receivers. Sure Demaryius really benefited from having Sanders on the same Squad. But I guarantee you if you're a defensive coordinator or a defensive back coach Demaryius Thomas during their Prime is always getting the number one corner

I cant ever remember Smith dropping wide open passes in the biggest moments, at least after his early years in the league. While DT is the more athletic and more talented of the two they couldnt be more apart in terms of reliability as DT even had this issue with Manning. Of course DT will draw the #1 corner because that is expected for a guy who is the top paid receiver on the team. My problem with your post though has more to do with the absurd notion that people are being spiteful, thats just flat out false. If you are going to shovel out a lot of money on a player (no matter the postion) you expect that player to come through in the biggest moments of the game. In the last game it just so happened to be a rookie who made the play that could of or should of been our #1 guy. Im sorry, ive never seen Rod do that or even McCaffery while i think about it. As i said the other day, DT is a great player and one of the best in the league but he does have a issue with drops that seem to stand out a lot more than ive seen from other receivers of his caliber. Maybe he is just at the twilight of his career, maybe he got his ring and payday and doesnt care anymore i dont know. But its not spiteful to point out the obvious problems that he does have, thats just a retarded and lazy take.

No actually north what's lazy is reading my entire first post and acting like I'm shitting all over Sanders and Smith. Or that I'm saying people are being spiteful for calling him out for his drops. I've called the guy out for his drops. What I said was spiteful was not acknowledging that Sanders has benefited more from the relationship with DT than the reverse. That my friend is a fact based on the fact that Sanders benefits from single coverage and facing the number two or three corner over the past 5 years at all times

[Northman]

No actually north what's lazy is reading my entire first post and acting like I'm shitting all over Sanders and Smith. Or that I'm saying people are being spiteful for calling him out for his drops. I've called the guy out for his drops. What I said was spiteful was not acknowledging that Sanders has benefited more from the relationship with DT than the reverse. That my friend is a fact based on the fact that Sanders benefits from single coverage and facing the number two or three corner over the past 5 years at all times

Nah, the fact is Sanders is a bigger deep threat than DT which actually helps draw defenders away from the middle of the field just like Easy Ed was a big factor playing opposite of Rod when it came to clutch catches. You act like DT was facing 2 defenders on every play which is BS. Lol

[Jsteve01]

No actually north what's lazy is reading my entire first post and acting like I'm shitting all over Sanders and Smith. Or that I'm saying people are being spiteful for calling him out for his drops. I've called the guy out for his drops. What I said was spiteful was not acknowledging that Sanders has benefited more from the relationship with DT than the reverse. That my friend is a fact based on the fact that Sanders benefits from single coverage and facing the number two or three corner over the past 5 years at all times

Nah, the fact is Sanders is a bigger deep threat than DT which actually helps draw defenders away from the middle of the field just like Easy Ed was a big factor playing opposite of Rod when it came to clutch catches. You act like DT was facing 2 defenders on every play which is BS. Lol

So let me get this straight now you're trying to say that McCaffrey gave more benefit to Smith than vice versa? Same deal man Rod Smith always drew the number one Defender and double coverage on the other team. And I'm not saying every stinking play Demaryius Thomas gets doubled but I guarantee you if they're going to shade a safety over the top of one or the other throughout the course of their careers it was Demaryius Thomas. He produced more numbers for a longer period of his career. It's not even debatable bro everybody knows that DT ever since they played together has caught more passes for more yards against better defensive players and more double coverage. At this point you're arguing to argue.

[Northman]

So let me get this straight now you're trying to say that McCaffrey gave more benefit to Smith than vice versa? Same deal man Rod Smith always drew the number one Defender and double coverage on the other team. And I'm not saying every stinking play Demaryius Thomas gets doubled but I guarantee you if they're going to shade a safety over the top of one or the other throughout the course of their careers it was Demaryius Thomas. He produced more numbers for a longer period of his career. It's not even debatable bro everybody knows that DT ever since they played together has caught more passes for more yards against better defensive players and more double coverage. At this point you're arguing to argue.

Im saying the benefit each other, its a reason why when one of them is out the other doesnt have near the success as they do together. Im not arguing just to argue, just correcting your failed logic.

[Shazam!]

Love me some DT, will never forget the epic games and great plays through the Manning Era. Or catching the Tebow pass vs. Pitt. But he has high mileage amd is not the speed threat he once was. He over the hill on the wrong side of 30 with admitted hip problems.

Father Time is undefeated. He will not miraculously turn 28 on Sunday.

[Jsteve01]

So let me get this straight now you're trying to say that McCaffrey gave more benefit to Smith than vice versa? Same deal man Rod Smith always drew the number one Defender and double coverage on the other team. And I'm not saying every stinking play Demaryius Thomas gets doubled but I guarantee you if they're going to shade a safety over the top of one or the other throughout the course of their careers it was Demaryius Thomas. He produced more numbers for a longer period of his career. It's not even debatable bro everybody knows that DT ever since they played together has caught more passes for more yards against better defensive players and more double coverage. At this point you're arguing to argue.

Im saying the benefit each other, its a reason why when one of them is out the other doesnt have near the success as they do together. Im not arguing just to argue, just correcting your failed logic.

No that's BS actually you called it the shittiest take ever when you were misrepresenting what I was stating. So let's be real bro you can backtrack now and act like you're just messing with your statement about failed logic which by the way is not failed.

The secondary receiver always benefits more from the number one. The number one sees more double coverage and sees more number one Corners. It's fact. it's the way it works. Again my logic is not failed you're arguing based on your misunderstanding of my original post and continue to stand on the fact that you say that Sanders is as good as Demaryius Thomas and Demaryius has benefited as much from Sanders being there as Sanders from Demaryius.

Here's the difference. Demaryius was putting up big numbers prior to Sanders ever signing. The same was not true for Sanders. case closed

[Northman]

No that's BS actually you called it the shittiest take ever when you were misrepresenting what I was stating. So let's be real bro you can backtrack now and act like you're just messing with your quote on quote failed logic which is not failed. The secondary receiver always benefits more from the number one. The number one sees more double coverage and sees more number one Corners. It's fact it's the way it works. Again my logic is not failed you're arguing based on your misunderstanding of my original post and continue to stand on the fact that you say that Sanders is as good as Demaryius Thomas and Demaryius has benefited as much from Sanders being there as Sanders from Demaryius. Here's the difference Demaryius was putting up big numbers prior to Sanders ever signing. The same was not true for Sanders case closed

No, your logic is very flawed. VERY VERY rarely will a #1 receiver carry any team without the compliment of another receiver on the squad. Case in point,

Jerry Rice/ John Taylor
Jerry Rice/ Tim Brown
Michael Irvin/ Alvin Harper
Rod Smith/ Ed McCaffery
DT/ E Sanders
DT/ Eric Decker
Randy Moss/ Cris Carter
Issac Bruce/ Tory Holt

The list could go on and on. If you dont believe the DT hasnt benefited from Sanders being on the field i dont know what else to tell you.

Sorry, you lose. Just deal.

Thus end the lesson.

[slim]

Rod Smith did not "have a problem with drops". What in the actual **** is happening in here?

[BeefStew25]

Rod Smith did not "have a problem with drops". What in the actual **** is happening in here?

He did and he also had a problem beating up his girlfriend.

[slim]

He did and he also had a problem beating up his girlfriend.

He did not and I agree.

[Jsteve01]

No that's BS actually you called it the shittiest take ever when you were misrepresenting what I was stating. So let's be real bro you can backtrack now and act like you're just messing with your quote on quote failed logic which is not failed. The secondary receiver always benefits more from the number one. The number one sees more double coverage and sees more number one Corners. It's fact it's the way it works. Again my logic is not failed you're arguing based on your misunderstanding of my original post and continue to stand on the fact that you say that Sanders is as good as Demaryius Thomas and Demaryius has benefited as much from Sanders being there as Sanders from Demaryius. Here's the difference Demaryius was putting up big numbers prior to Sanders ever signing. The same was not true for Sanders case closed

No, your logic is very flawed. VERY VERY rarely will a #1 receiver carry any team without the compliment of another receiver on the squad. Case in point,

Jerry Rice/ John Taylor
Jerry Rice/ Tim Brown
Michael Irvin/ Alvin Harper
Rod Smith/ Ed McCaffery
DT/ E Sanders
DT/ Eric Decker
Randy Moss/ Cris Carter
Issac Bruce/ Tory Holt

The list could go on and on. If you dont believe the DT hasnt benefited from Sanders being on the field i dont know what else to tell you.

Sorry, you lose. Just deal.

Thus end the lesson.

Sheesh youre persistent. Of course there is a symbiotic relationship but an easy litmus test to see who benefitted more is how they performed apart from each other.

Rice/Taylor. We dont really know. John always had Jerry and Jerry was almost done by the time he got to Oakland. (Timmy was already good btw)

Irvin/Harper. This one is obvious Irvin is in the hall and Harper was out of the league within two years of leaving Dallas.

Smith/Mac Eddie was a decent receiver for the Niners before he came to the Broncos. and became a pro bowler when he played alongside rod and Terrell and Shannon and Elway. Rod continued to be a pro bowler after Eddie got hurt.

Dt and anyone else. A again the thing that you keep missing is that I'm not detracting from the other player. What I am saying is the other player benefits more from the relationship than the number one receiver does because inherently the number one receiver will always see more shade from a safety over the top and will always be playing opposite the other teams best cornerback.

Did Demaryius benefit from playing with Wes Welker of course. Did he benefit from playing with Decker of course. Did he benefit from playing with Sanders of course. But who saw the most benefit from the relationship? It is not a 50/50 deal. he is carrying the brunt of said relationship. He is carrying the heaviest weight. He is the guy again getting more double coverage and seeing more number one cornerbacks across the line of scrimmage.

The last two analogies are somewhat of outliers because they were essentially truly 50/50 relationships where both players were Hall of Famers and both players were good apart from each other. Chris Carter benefited obviously from Randy Moss but he was already a Friend Hall of Famer. Randy Moss may have benefited a little bit more not necessarily on the field but off because of Chris's mentorship. Bruce and Holt are both fantastic players in their own right and both deserve to be in the Hall of Fame

[Jsteve01]

Rod Smith did not "have a problem with drops". What in the actual **** is happening in here?

See what you made me do? And in all honesty drops are going to happen when you're leaving your team in the league in targets. There are four or five future hall-of-famers on this list. But yes Rod led the league in drops twice and in fact in our first Super Bowl year he dropped the ball 14 times.

1996: Rickey Dudley, OAK. 17.
1997: Rod Smith, DEN. 15.
1998: Bert Emanuel, TB. 13.
1999: Frank Sanders, ARI, Tim Brown, OAK. 14.
2000: Rod Smith, DEN. 17.
2001: Jeff Graham, SD. 14.
2002: Marvin Harrison, IND. 16.
2003: Darrell Jackson, SEA, Fred Taylor, JAC. 12.
2004: Chad OchoJohnson, CIN. 14.
2005: LaMont Jordan, OAK. 12.
2006: Terrell Owens, DAL. 17.
2007: Braylon Edwards, CLE, Dallas Clark, IND. 12.
2008: Braylon Edwards, CLE. 16.
2009: Vernon Davis, SF. 12.
2010: Wes Welker, NE. 13.

[Shazam!]

Why you guys trash Rod Smith now idk

[Mike]

Smith did have problems in the beginning, but overcame and became reliable...with less talent than DT.

Nobody denies DT has talent. I have no doubt that he will absolutely make great catches, like last week. He will have dominant games. He just doesn't play consistently and he doesn't play to his physical talent level. That's what irks me. He could be so much more and he is paid to be more.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

See what you made me do? And in all honesty drops are going to happen when you're leaving your team in the league in targets. There are four or five future hall-of-famers on this list. But yes Rod led the league in drops twice and in fact in our first Super Bowl year he dropped the ball 14 times.

1996: Rickey Dudley, OAK. 17.
1997: Rod Smith, DEN. 15.
1998: Bert Emanuel, TB. 13.
1999: Frank Sanders, ARI, Tim Brown, OAK. 14.
2000: Rod Smith, DEN. 17.
2001: Jeff Graham, SD. 14.
2002: Marvin Harrison, IND. 16.
2003: Darrell Jackson, SEA, Fred Taylor, JAC. 12.
2004: Chad OchoJohnson, CIN. 14.
2005: LaMont Jordan, OAK. 12.
2006: Terrell Owens, DAL. 17.
2007: Braylon Edwards, CLE, Dallas Clark, IND. 12.
2008: Braylon Edwards, CLE. 16.
2009: Vernon Davis, SF. 12.
2010: Wes Welker, NE. 13.

And there you have it folks.

[Elevation inc]

Its difficult to watch the DT bashing for me personally. I get pointing out issues when they are there. I did the same with manning his final season and all his interceptions, god that was painful, but not once would I disregard what he meant to us during his time in Denver. DT has been one of the Top 2 WR's to ever lace em up for Denver. While he may not be in his prime a 1000 yd season is still very possible if he stops with drops. Lets not forget how many crappy Qb's he played for, and how many times he fought through injuries and limped through games cause of his hips to keep fighting. Maybe its just a lack of early focus...the whole team was lethargic until the last 15 minutes except for maybe von and Lindsay. His leadership also has shown itself in Courtland's development as its been stated a number of places how much DT has been helpful for him. Also there is a clip in Sanders Mic'ed up footage from the game where DT lights a fire under the offense. He could have gone in a shell after the drops but he kept fighting and damn if that wasn't a good speech. Father time may be catching up to him, and I would expect a pay cut request even if he breaks 1000 yds, but the dude is one of the best we have had in Denver and should be given respect. if you want to yell at your TV and tell him to stop dropping the F'in ball, I will be right there with you as its frustrating....but lets be real about one of the best to ever play in Denver at the WR position.

[BeefStew25]

Vernon Davis got an effing ring.

[slim]

See what you made me do? And in all honesty drops are going to happen when you're leaving your team in the league in targets. There are four or five future hall-of-famers on this list. But yes Rod led the league in drops twice and in fact in our first Super Bowl year he dropped the ball 14 times.

1996: Rickey Dudley, OAK. 17.
1997: Rod Smith, DEN. 15.
1998: Bert Emanuel, TB. 13.
1999: Frank Sanders, ARI, Tim Brown, OAK. 14.
2000: Rod Smith, DEN. 17.
2001: Jeff Graham, SD. 14.
2002: Marvin Harrison, IND. 16.
2003: Darrell Jackson, SEA, Fred Taylor, JAC. 12.
2004: Chad OchoJohnson, CIN. 14.
2005: LaMont Jordan, OAK. 12.
2006: Terrell Owens, DAL. 17.
2007: Braylon Edwards, CLE, Dallas Clark, IND. 12.
2008: Braylon Edwards, CLE. 16.
2009: Vernon Davis, SF. 12.
2010: Wes Welker, NE. 13.

I am not interested in your propaganda. 80 was clutch.

[Northman]

I am not interested in your propaganda. 80 was clutch.

Dude was flat out amazing, especially for a guy who went undrafted.

[BroncoWave]

Its difficult to watch the DT bashing for me personally. I get pointing out issues when they are there. I did the same with manning his final season and all his interceptions, god that was painful, but not once would I disregard what he meant to us during his time in Denver. DT has been one of the Top 2 WR's to ever lace em up for Denver. While he may not be in his prime a 1000 yd season is still very possible if he stops with drops. Lets not forget how many crappy Qb's he played for, and how many times he fought through injuries and limped through games cause of his hips to keep fighting. Maybe its just a lack of early focus...the whole team was lethargic until the last 15 minutes except for maybe von and Lindsay. His leadership also has shown itself in Courtland's development as its been stated a number of places how much DT has been helpful for him. Also there is a clip in Sanders Mic'ed up footage from the game where DT lights a fire under the offense. He could have gone in a shell after the drops but he kept fighting and damn if that wasn't a good speech. Father time may be catching up to him, and I would expect a pay cut request even if he breaks 1000 yds, but the dude is one of the best we have had in Denver and should be given respect. if you want to yell at your TV and tell him to stop dropping the F'in ball, I will be right there with you as its frustrating....but lets be real about one of the best to ever play in Denver at the WR position.

No one is debating any of this.

[Northman]

No one is debating any of this.

Some people are just incredibly slow but what can you do?

[Jsteve01]

Why you guys trash Rod Smith now idk

Dammit no one is trashing Rod. Im saying that you cant bash Dt for drops out one side of your mouth and then hail Rod as a great who had no flaws. I also stated that drops seem to always be overstated. We see our guys drops. Not so much the other guys. It is flat revisionist history. I love them both.

I just have never had any patience for those who want to tout the good ole days and detract from an all time great Bronco and teammate. It pisses me off. Dt was effectively the only Bronco receiver to even show up in Super Bowl 48. Set a record for receptions all the while getting murdered by Kam company.

And again. At no point in their time together until maybe this year was Sanders the better receiver nor was he seeing more doubles or more number one corners than Dt.

Why in the world cant we state flaws without it meaning someone sucks?

[Jsteve01]

See what you made me do? And in all honesty drops are going to happen when you're leaving your team in the league in targets. There are four or five future hall-of-famers on this list. But yes Rod led the league in drops twice and in fact in our first Super Bowl year he dropped the ball 14 times.

1996: Rickey Dudley, OAK. 17.
1997: Rod Smith, DEN. 15.
1998: Bert Emanuel, TB. 13.
1999: Frank Sanders, ARI, Tim Brown, OAK. 14.
2000: Rod Smith, DEN. 17.
2001: Jeff Graham, SD. 14.
2002: Marvin Harrison, IND. 16.
2003: Darrell Jackson, SEA, Fred Taylor, JAC. 12.
2004: Chad OchoJohnson, CIN. 14.
2005: LaMont Jordan, OAK. 12.
2006: Terrell Owens, DAL. 17.
2007: Braylon Edwards, CLE, Dallas Clark, IND. 12.
2008: Braylon Edwards, CLE. 16.
2009: Vernon Davis, SF. 12.
2010: Wes Welker, NE. 13.

I am not interested in your propaganda. 80 was clutch.

He was clutch. Thats the whole point. His drops didnt detract from his greatness. And all the greats have dropped balls. It happens.

[Northman]

D


Why in the world cant we state flaws without it meaning someone sucks?

No one said DT sucks.

[BroncoJoe]

Man, I totally regret opening and reading through this thread.

[Northman]

Smith did have problems in the beginning, but overcame and became reliable...with less talent than DT.

Nobody denies DT has talent. I have no doubt that he will absolutely make great catches, like last week. He will have dominant games. He just doesn't play consistently and he doesn't play to his physical talent level. That's what irks me. He could be so much more and he is paid to be more.

Bumped for accuracy about the whole thread.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

No one said DT sucks.

No, but some have claimed Rod was better, citing a misconceived lack of drops. Rod’s hands weren’t better than DT’s.

[Northman]

No, but some have claimed Rod was better, citing a misconceived lack of drops. Rod’s hands weren’t better than DT’s.

I disagree of course but that does not equate to hate, just a disagreement of perception.

[Jsteve01]

D


Why in the world cant we state flaws without it meaning someone sucks?

No one said DT sucks.

People have said for years that Emmanuel is the better receiver. The only thing they hang their hat on is drops.

[Northman]

People have said for years that Emmanuel is the better receiver. The only thing they hang their hat on is drops.

Again, just because some people find one player better than the other does not equate to hate. There is a difference.

[Northman]

It just sounds like some people are getting some serious sand in their vaginas because people dont crown DT the best ever at his respective position.

[Northman]

There are people who believe that Joe Montana or even Peyton Manning were better than John Elway. I disagree whole heartily with that notion but i dont equate their opinions as hate about Elway, just a different perspective.

[Jsteve01]

No, but some have claimed Rod was better, citing a misconceived lack of drops. Rod’s hands weren’t better than DT’s.

I disagree of course but that does not equate to hate, just a disagreement of perception.

He had two seasons with more drops that dt has ever had. One with 15 and one with 17. Dude youve misquoted and misrepresented this whole thread. Hang it up.

I can sum up my whole position quite quickly. Saying rod was far superior to dt because he didnt drop balls is pure fallacy on two levels. I dont thing drops tell the whole story as showed by hof receivers that dropped some balls and purely by the numbers rod dropped more than dt.

Secondly i never detracted from Sanders but rather stated that touting him as the better receiver is just spiteful because until this year he has never been better than dt

[Jsteve01]

There are people who believe that Joe Montana or even Peyton Manning were better than John Elway. I disagree whole heartily with that notion but i dont equate their opinions as hate about Elway, just a different perspective.


Those are debatable. Try to sell any gm in the league on the idea that sanders has been better over his career and they would laugh you out of the room. The numbers dont lie.

[Northman]

Those are debatable. Try to sell any gm in the league on the idea that sanders has been better over his career and they would laugh you out of the room. The numbers dont lie.

They dont always tell the whole story either, look at JSteves last post about targets, etc. Again, DT is more talented of the two but when i watch both on the field i feel as if Sanders comes up more clutch than DT does. But that does not equate to hate like you try to propose, just a different perception.

[slim]

"Dropped passes" is a bogus stat to begin with.

Someone check out how many drops DT has this year, according to the stat keepers. I'll give you a hint, it's 2.

Now, tell me how many drops he's really had.

[Northman]

"Dropped passes" is a bogus stat to begin with.

Someone check out how many drops DT has this year, according to the stat keepers. I'll give you a hint, it's 2.

Now, tell me how many drops he's really had.

Not only that, but then you would have to try and narrow down the "scenarios" in which the drops happen. Were they during a blowout, were they while a defender was tackling them, or how many were there when the WR was wide open. Not sure if there are any adequate or accurate stats to even provide that kind of information. Its easy to point to a basic number but dont really give an answer to when and at what point of the game they actually happen.

[Jsteve01]

"Dropped passes" is a bogus stat to begin with.

Someone check out how many drops DT has this year, according to the stat keepers. I'll give you a hint, it's 2.

Now, tell me how many drops he's really had.

Ive already stated im not a fan of dropped passes as an evaluator of a player. If you get targeted 150 times a year there will be drops. And some guys will drop a few more than others. But to use that to negate everything else the guy does is lunacy. That, slim is the reason i brought Rod up.

And i agree wholeheartedly thst last week was horrid, but i never decided John was no longer a great qb because of horrible incompletions or picks. They didnt negate the rest of his resume

[TXBRONC]

Well let's do this North we haven't had a good argument for a while. Nowhere in that post that I shit on either of those guys. I said and it's true that Rod Smith had a problem with drops during his career. He would make a circus catch and then he would drop. I've also stated numerous times that he and DT are neck-and-neck for 1 and 2 in the receiver race. And it's no joke there is no one in the league that would say that Sanders During the period of dominance that we saw with those two was the better of the two receivers. Sure Demaryius really benefited from having Sanders on the same Squad. But I guarantee you if you're a defensive coordinator or a defensive back coach Demaryius Thomas during their Prime is always getting the number one corner

Did Rod Smith not benefit from having Ed McCaffrey opposite him as well has having a future Hall of Fame quarterback throwing to him during the early part of his career? It not throwing Smith under a bus to acknowledges certain things about him that actually happened.

[Northman]

Did Rod Smith not benefit from having Ed McCaffrey opposite him as well has having a future Hall of Fame quarterback throwing to him during the early part of his career? It not throwing Smith under a bus to acknowledges certain things about him that actually happened.

Ooooooh.

I was assured by him that i misquoted and misrepresented his argument. Guess it wasnt just me. :lol:

[Northman]

Jsteve and bunch, just admit you misrepresented people's opinions as hate and we can move on.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

"Dropped passes" is a bogus stat to begin with.

Someone check out how many drops DT has this year, according to the stat keepers. I'll give you a hint, it's 2.

Now, tell me how many drops he's really had.

He had 1 Sunday. Two of three were poorly thrown balls. Some people don’t know what they’re looking at.

[Jsteve01]

Jsteve and bunch, just admit you misrepresented people's opinions as hate and we can move on.

Bs north. I made the analogy to smith and said people calling Sanders the better player was purely spite and you said it was thebiggest bs take ever.

[Northman]

Bs north. I made the analogy to smith and said people calling Sanders the better player was purely spite and you said it was thebiggest bs take ever.

It was. It isnt spite to have a differing opinion. Lol

[BroncoWave]

He had 1 Sunday. Two of three were poorly thrown balls. Some people don’t know what they’re looking at.

Poorly thrown, but catchable. He gets paid to make those catches.

[Northman]

Poorly thrown, but catchable. He gets paid to make those catches.

It hit him in his hands.

[Jsteve01]

Bs north. I made the analogy to smith and said people calling Sanders the better player was purely spite and you said it was thebiggest bs take ever.

It was. It isnt spite to have a differing opinion. Lol

Dude again. Stats and defensive priorty negate any argument otherwise. Sanders doesnt drop as many...okeydokey. nor until this season has ha caught as many balls, drawn as much double coverage or attention from the best corner on the other team.

And go back and remind me how i shit on sanders and smith. Fact is you posted some shit about about the worst take ever. Said i shit on two great broncos (which i didnt btw) and then proceeded to make straw man after straw man and kept changing the topic of discussion.

[Northman]

Dude again. Stats and defensive priorty negate any argument otherwise. Sanders doesnt drop as many...okeydokey. nor until this season has ha caught as many balls, drawn as much double coverage or attention from the best corner on the other team.

And go back and remind me how i shit on sanders and smith. Fact is you posted some shit about about the worst take ever. Said i shit on two great broncos (which i didnt btw) and then proceeded to make straw man after straw man and kept changing the topic of discussion.

Someone is triggered. You made assumptions about criticism of player and tried to play it off as spiteful and hatred when that wasnt the case. Dont be mad and pissy because i called out on your own bullshit. Just admit you were wrong about the hate and we can move on to better things. Come on, its not to hard princess.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Poorly thrown, but catchable. He gets paid to make those catches.


It hit him in his hands.

Viable observations, but catching a ball thrown behind you when you’re sprinting towards the sideline and having to jump and turn your body in the air and catch it behind you is extremely difficult. Anyone who boos that or considers that a drop doesn’t have a clue how hard that is.

Or trying to hold onto a ball that floats getting to its spot so a defender can hit your arm before you can secure it is also not a drop. Catchable? Yes, but not easy.

The first one sited was his only drop. He turned to run without “looking the ball in”. That is a “drop”.

[Jsteve01]

Dude again. Stats and defensive priorty negate any argument otherwise. Sanders doesnt drop as many...okeydokey. nor until this season has ha caught as many balls, drawn as much double coverage or attention from the best corner on the other team.

And go back and remind me how i shit on sanders and smith. Fact is you posted some shit about about the worst take ever. Said i shit on two great broncos (which i didnt btw) and then proceeded to make straw man after straw man and kept changing the topic of discussion.

Someone is triggered. You made assumptions about criticism of player and tried to play it off as spiteful and hatred when that wasnt the case. Dont be mad and pissy because i called out on your own bullshit. Just admit you were wrong about the hate and we can move on to better things. Come on, its not to hard princess.

You said i shit on sanders and smith. Youve misrepresented my stance since your first post. Triggered? Nah. I like to argue especially when the other party keeps pulling a straw man and arguing about things i never said.

[Northman]

Viable observations, but catching a ball thrown behind you when you’re sprinting towards the sideline and having to jump and turn your body in the air and catch it behind you is extremely difficult. Anyone who boos that or considers that a drop doesn’t have a clue how hard that is.

Or trying to hold onto a ball that floats getting to its spot so a defender can hit your arm before you can secure it is also not a drop. Catchable? Yes, but not easy.

The first one sited was his only drop. He turned to run without “looking the ball in”. That is a “drop”.

Difficult or not that is why he gets paid the big bucks. Ive actually seen him catch harder passes than that, that is what makes his play at times so frustrating.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Poorly thrown, but catchable. He gets paid to make those catches.


Difficult or not that is why he gets paid the big bucks. Ive actually seen him catch harder passes than that, that is what makes his play at times so frustrating.

Understandable, but not performing every task that has a high degree of difficulty doesn’t mean he’s worthy of ire. Sutton failed to get his feet in bounds on a difficult catch as well. Will people boo him 5 years down the road for a perceived lack of concentration because he will have demonstrated an ability to make circus catches?

[Northman]

Understandable, but not performing every task that has a high degree of difficulty doesn’t mean he’s worthy of ire. Sutton failed to get his feet in bounds on a difficult catch as well. Will people boo him 5 years down the road for a perceived lack of concentration because he will have demonstrated an ability to make circus catches?

Maybe, every player for the Broncos takes some criticism. Even guys like Miller and Sanders. For years Broncos QB's have taken huge criticism for one reason or the other but again, its not hate just opinions and criticism. It tends to be much harder for guys who get paid more and have more expectations. As great as Elway was he took a shit ton of criticism, far more than DT has ever had to endure. It comes with the territory as players but ive also seen many people (even me at times) praise DT when he does good things. I just dont buy into this alledged "hate" campaign that people speak of, its like somehow fans are not supposed to be critical of the players which i find baffling.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Poorly thrown, but catchable. He gets paid to make those catches.


Maybe, every player for the Broncos takes some criticism. Even guys like Miller and Sanders. For years Broncos QB's have taken huge criticism for one reason or the other but again, its not hate just opinions and criticism. It tends to be much harder for guys who get paid more and have more expectations. As great as Elway was he took a shit ton of criticism, far more than DT has ever had to endure. It comes with the territory as players but ive also seen many people (even me at times) praise DT when he does good things. I just dont buy into this alledged "hate" campaign that people speak of, its like somehow fans are not supposed to be critical of the players which i find baffling.

I don’t know why you keep bringing up the hate argument with me. I didn’t bring that word into the discussion. I’ve suggested there’s a little ignorance with Bronco fans from time to time, but that’s about it.

Although I do agree with Jsteve in that there is a bit of a revisionist history with Smith. Some posters have been butt hurt with me when I suggested DT was more dominant.

I loved Rod Smith. I have an autographed hat by him. However Rod is not someone who had the ability to physically impose his will on defenders. That’s why I believe DT is the most dominant receiver we’ve ever had.

DT was at one time one of the 3-4 most dominant receivers in the game. Rod was never that elite.

[Northman]

I don’t know why you keep bringing up the hate argument with me. I didn’t bring that word into the discussion. I’ve suggested there’s a little ignorance with Bronco fans from time to time, but that’s about it.

Although I do agree with Jsteve in that there is a bit of a revisionist history with Smith. Some posters have been butt hurt with me when I suggested DT was more dominant.

I loved Rod Smith. I have an autographed hat by him. However Rod is not someone who had the ability to physically impose his will on defenders. That’s why I believe DT is the most dominant receiver we’ve ever had.

DT was at one time one of the 3-4 most dominant receivers in the game. Rod was never that elite.

I disagree that Rod was never that elite and i say that because he was definitely one of the best (1998 for instance, ranked 4th in receiving out of the entire NFLhttp://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&season=1998&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Go ) so i think that is a bit of revisionist history on your part. Also, there has not been anyone on here (that ive seen) who hasnt admitted that DT is the more talented of the two. There is a reason why DT was a first round choice vs Rod who went undrafted but i think people are saying that DT doesnt always live up to his billing and believe that Rod despite not being as talented was far more clutch in big moments than DT has been. Again, not hate just a difference in perception and observation.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I disagree that Rod was never that elite and i say that because he was definitely one of the best (1998 for instance, ranked 4th in receiving out of the entire NFLhttp://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&season=1998&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Go ) so i think that is a bit of revisionist history on your part. Also, there has not been anyone on here (that ive seen) who hasnt admitted that DT is the more talented of the two. There is a reason why DT was a first round choice vs Rod who went undrafted but i think people are saying that DT doesnt always live up to his billing and believe that Rod despite not being as talented was far more clutch in big moments than DT has been. Again, not hate just a difference in perception and observation.

And once again, I never suggested you hate him. I don’t know why you keep saying that to me.

Rod finishing in the top 5 one time does not indicate he was as dominant as DT had been.

[Jsteve01]

Dude again. Stats and defensive priorty negate any argument otherwise. Sanders doesnt drop as many...okeydokey. nor until this season has ha caught as many balls, drawn as much double coverage or attention from the best corner on the other team.

And go back and remind me how i shit on sanders and smith. Fact is you posted some shit about about the worst take ever. Said i shit on two great broncos (which i didnt btw) and then proceeded to make straw man after straw man and kept changing the topic of discussion.

Someone is triggered. You made assumptions about criticism of player and tried to play it off as spiteful and hatred when that wasnt the case. Dont be mad and pissy because i called out on your own bullshit. Just admit you were wrong about the hate and we can move on to better things. Come on, its not to hard princess.

You said i shit on sanders and smith. Youve misrepresented my stance since your first post. Triggered? Nah. I like to argue especially when the other party keeps pulling a straw man and arguing about things i never said.

Show me where i used hate and where i shit on Rod and Sanders. I find it ironic that you have straw manned this entire debate by saying i shit on those guys and then go on to say how im misrepresenting others opinions.

Here is a valid debate. Elways is better than Montana. Its debatable. They played for different coaches and with different teammates. I lean toward Elway who won despite his coach rather than because of.

Invalid. Sanders is the better receiver because he had fewer drops. Why? Because he had fewer targets, yards, receptions, touchdowns. Fewer double teams. I love E, but he was not the better receiver the past 5 years

[Northman]

And once again, I never suggested you hate him. I don’t know why you keep saying that to me.

Rod finishing in the top 5 one time does not indicate he was as dominant as DT had been.

You also have not included the different eras they have played in. In DT's time the league has become more pass oriented whereas Rod played in a time when Denver was running the ball more and more consistently.

[Northman]

The NFL in the last 15-20 years has become a passing league so that plays a lot into DT's numbers.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I disagree that Rod was never that elite and i say that because he was definitely one of the best (1998 for instance, ranked 4th in receiving out of the entire NFLhttp://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&season=1998&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Go ) so i think that is a bit of revisionist history on your part. Also, there has not been anyone on here (that ive seen) who hasnt admitted that DT is the more talented of the two. There is a reason why DT was a first round choice vs Rod who went undrafted but i think people are saying that DT doesnt always live up to his billing and believe that Rod despite not being as talented was far more clutch in big moments than DT has been. Again, not hate just a difference in perception and observation.

And once again, I never suggested you hate him. I don’t know why you keep saying that to me.

Rod finishing in the top 5 one time does not indicate he was as dominant as DT had been. However, I don’t think you’re opinion is stupid. I just don’t agree completely, and that’s ok. :D

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

You also have not included the different eras they have played in. In DT's time the league has become more pass oriented whereas Rod played in a time when Denver was running the ball more and more consistently.

And Rod played the majority of his career with John Elway. The game wasn’t that much different twenty years ago

[Northman]

And Rod played the majority of his career with John Elway. The game wasn’t that much different twenty years ago

And DT played a good amount of years with Manning. But more to the point about the league changing this will help with what im talking about.

www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a44e69/article/passing-league-explaining-the-nfls-aerial-evolution

[Jsteve01]

Rod was great regardless of era and there was a difference in emphasis. Having Davis on your team and a loaded line will do that.

[Jsteve01]

Dude again. Stats and defensive priorty negate any argument otherwise. Sanders doesnt drop as many...okeydokey. nor until this season has ha caught as many balls, drawn as much double coverage or attention from the best corner on the other team.

And go back and remind me how i shit on sanders and smith. Fact is you posted some shit about about the worst take ever. Said i shit on two great broncos (which i didnt btw) and then proceeded to make straw man after straw man and kept changing the topic of discussion.

Someone is triggered. You made assumptions about criticism of player and tried to play it off as spiteful and hatred when that wasnt the case. Dont be mad and pissy because i called out on your own bullshit. Just admit you were wrong about the hate and we can move on to better things. Come on, its not to hard princess.

You said i shit on sanders and smith. Youve misrepresented my stance since your first post. Triggered? Nah. I like to argue especially when the other party keeps pulling a straw man and arguing about things i never said.

Show me where i used hate and where i shit on Rod and Sanders. I find it ironic that you have straw manned this entire debate by saying i shit on those guys and then go on to say how im misrepresenting others opinions.

Here is a valid debate. Elways is better than Montana. Its debatable. They played for different coaches and with different teammates. I lean toward Elway who won despite his coach rather than because of.

Invalid. Sanders is the better receiver because he had fewer drops. Why? Because he had fewer targets, yards, receptions, touchdowns. Fewer double teams. I love E, but he was not the better receiver the past 5 years

North?

[Mike]

Smith was a very good receiver. He was very reliable. He was a much lesser talented receiver than DT. He played above his talent.

DT is a good-to-very good receiver, with incredible speed, size, talent. He is not always reliable. He plays below his talent. He is also paid like one of the premier WRs.

Expectations will be much higher towards one of these players. I will let you figure out why one is criticized and the other not.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

And DT played a good amount of years with Manning. But more to the point about the league changing this will help with what im talking about.

www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a44e69/article/passing-league-explaining-the-nfls-aerial-evolution

DT had 3 good years with Manning. He has spent the other 5 years with Tebow, Orton, Siemian, Brock, a crippled Manning who couldn’t throw the ball more than 20 yards, and now Keenum.

[Northman]

Smith was a very good receiver. He was very reliable. He was a much lesser talented receiver than DT. He played above his talent.

DT is a good-to-very good receiver, with incredible speed, size, talent. He is not always reliable. He plays below his talent. He is also paid like one of the premier WRs.

Expectations will be much higher towards one of these players. I will let you figure out why one is criticized and the other not.

Exactly,

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Lol!

[BeefStew25]

I love rod smith. I once had sex with him.

DT is better.

[Valar Morghulis]

Cody Latimer was better than them both. Just not statistically, or even at all

[Jsteve01]

Cody Latimer was better than them both. Just not statistically, or even at all

Sod off

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Cody Latimer was better than them both. Just not statistically, or even at all

Finally, a post in this thread worth reading.

[Valar Morghulis]

Is sod off an American phrase?

[slim]

Cody Latimer was better than them both. Just not statistically, or even at all

Next year Cody is gonna break out.

[EastCoastBronco]

Drops are all about context.
If you drop a pass on first down it doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as dropping one on third down and people don't remember them...unless they are in the end zone.
Do they keep stats for what down the drop occurred?
That big one that DT dropped last week at the end of the game stood out because he was wide open and the catch would have put us inside McManus's range to win the game.
Consistency has been his biggest issue for the past couple of years.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Is sod off an American phrase?

I believe it’s “sawed off”. Yes it’s an American expression. Sod is a type of grass.

[Jsteve01]

Cody Latimer was better than them both. Just not statistically, or even at all

Next year Cody is gonna break out.

I was guilty...i admit it. His blocking and 40 speed somehow diminished my ability to recognize he sucked

[Jsteve01]

Is sod off an American phrase?

I believe it’s “sawed off”. Yes it’s an American expression. Sod is a type of grass.

Thanks Al. Im terrible with spellin and such

[BeefStew25]

A week removed from his TD catch.

[Elevation inc]

I am not interested in your propaganda. 80 was clutch.

Just not in 97 or 2000

[Elevation inc]

No one is debating any of this.

I disagree the DT hate has been rampant all off season, there was even a DT doesn't dive enough for the ball tangent.....

[Elevation inc]

Some people are just incredibly slow but what can you do?

Not sure what your implying here or why or even if its directed at me, but if so I know your better than this comment.....

[Elevation inc]

It just sounds like some people are getting some serious sand in their vaginas because people dont crown DT the best ever at his respective position.

DT isn't the best ever to play but he certainly is top 2 In Denver. Both are top Wr's for Denver and had drops, but to discount from either is just dumb and a waste of thread space. To be fair however I am not the thread police juts simply stating that you can call someone out for poor play but to discredit either player for some dumb drops is when tons of elite players have them is dumb. Just like determining whether a player is good or not by how he dives or doesn't dive for the ball....the DT hate explosion has been rampant all off-season....

[Elevation inc]

"Dropped passes" is a bogus stat to begin with.

Someone check out how many drops DT has this year, according to the stat keepers. I'll give you a hint, it's 2.

Now, tell me how many drops he's really had.

Not always dropped passed are counted off balls that should have been caught not ones that touched their hands that were to high or behind them. I will say...I have DT with 3 drops and 1 his talent should have been able to bring in making it 4 but subjective, However I can certainly see how they counted only 2. I'm sure all those players with all those drops had more that could have been considered drops cause of their talent, but weren't always easily catchable balls.

[Elevation inc]

Smith was a very good receiver. He was very reliable. He was a much lesser talented receiver than DT. He played above his talent.

DT is a good-to-very good receiver, with incredible speed, size, talent. He is not always reliable. He plays below his talent. He is also paid like one of the premier WRs.

Expectations will be much higher towards one of these players. I will let you figure out why one is criticized and the other not.

FYI DT is the 12th highest paid WR so right around that very good WR range, I think Allen robinson, Ty Hilton and Alshon Jeffery are right behind him..He sometimes play's below his talent which goes to consistency and is maddening at times, but most times plays very good and at times even elite and makes clutch plays. Neither DT or Sanders were clutch last year, but during our elite years with manning DT was very clutch in many games. I mean whether his foot was on the line or not in week 1, the only reason we won is because he caught it in the first place to make the refs have to decide. I can overlook a drop on 3rd down if you can close the game out on a winning TD catch, however I know not everyone feels the same

[Krugan]

Well if used in the way that "sod off" was used, i would say that would be more along the lines of the UK usage. Kinda like piss off or f off...

Just because I felt the need to add my 2 cents.

[Rick]

It would be a mistake to move on from Sanders as he has really stepped up and shown that he is a star still, but they will move on from DT next year unless he takes a cut.

[Elevation inc]

It would be a mistake to move on from Sanders as he has really stepped up and shown that he is a star still, but they will move on from DT next year unless he takes a cut.

I agree....between the 2 of them they are making like 25 mil this year, It wouldn't surprise me if Elway plays hard ball with both though knowing he has depth now. I expect both to be asked to take cuts honestly regardless

[BroncoWave]

I disagree the DT hate has been rampant all off season, there was even a DT doesn't dive enough for the ball tangent.....

Please show me one single post that you would describe as "hate" for DT.

[Elevation inc]

Please show me one single post that you would describe as "hate" for DT.

Below....oh and that's just page 1 of this thread. First sentence....he is the 12th paid WR btw in case anyone was wondering, pretty sure a game winning TD is clutch also.

"DT is one of the more over rated players in the league. He's being paid like a top tier WR and he's anything but. His hands are inconsistent and he's anything but clutch anymore. DT doesn't deserve the high rep count he is getting, the Broncos would be better served to start getting Sutton and Patrick more involved with the offense. Competition has seemed to have helped Sanders but DT seems like the same old DT"

[BroncoWave]

Below....oh and that's just page 1 of this thread. First sentence....he is the 12th paid WR btw in case anyone was wondering

"DT is one of the more over rated players in the league. He's being paid like a top tier WR and he's anything but. His hands are inconsistent and he's anything but clutch anymore. DT doesn't deserve the high rep count he is getting, the Broncos would be better served to start getting Sutton and Patrick more involved with the offense. Competition has seemed to have helped Sanders but DT seems like the same old DT"

I guess to me there is a difference between criticism and hate. That is certainly a critical post of DT, but I don't think that poster "hates" DT. Read any thread about Josh McDaniels for actual examples of what hate looks like.

[Northman]

Below....oh and that's just page 1 of this thread. First sentence....he is the 12th paid WR btw in case anyone was wondering, pretty sure a game winning TD is clutch also.

"DT is one of the more over rated players in the league. He's being paid like a top tier WR and he's anything but. His hands are inconsistent and he's anything but clutch anymore. DT doesn't deserve the high rep count he is getting, the Broncos would be better served to start getting Sutton and Patrick more involved with the offense. Competition has seemed to have helped Sanders but DT seems like the same old DT"

I dont see that as hate, i see that is someone's opinion. I think you are reaching there.

[BroncoWave]

Read this thread for actual examples of hate toward someone. I've never seen one post about DT that comes even close to some of the posts about MCD in this thread.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/607650-Colts-hire-Josh-McDaniels-as-head-coach?highlight=Josh+McDaniels

[Northman]

Oh, i admit i hate McD. No question.

[Elevation inc]

I guess to me there is a difference between criticism and hate. That is certainly a critical post of DT, but I don't think that poster "hates" DT. Read any thread about Josh McDaniels for actual examples of what hate looks like.

LMAO okay okay fair point lol

[Elevation inc]

Its just crazy we don't win week 1 without him period....were 1-1 at this point if not for his clutch catch and he has many shining examples over his career of doing that its why he is so trusted in those situations....I have already admitted I scream at the TV when he drops a catch but I do the same at any player that messes up. I guess I just feel the negative focus belongs in a few other spots particularly with LB Brandon Marshall who also got paid and has been a big liability compared to DT

[Northman]

Its just crazy we don't win week 1 without him period....were 1-1 at this point if not for his clutch catch and he has many shining examples over his career of doing that its why he is so trusted in those situations....I have already admitted I scream at the TV when he drops a catch but I do the same at any player that messes up. I guess I just feel the negative focus belongs in a few other spots particularly with Brandon Marshall who also got paid and has been a big liability compared to DT

Are you talking about the WR Marshall or the LB? If you are talking about the WR he took a LOT of shit and criticism from fans. Especially with the off the field stuff. Almost everyone i have read on here about DT has admitted that DT is one of the most talented WR's we have ever had but he has fubar moments that frustrates the fanbase. Of course fans arent going to give a rookie a lot of crap because 1) they are a rookie, but 2) they arent getting paid to make those plays. I think Decker took more unnecessary heat than DT did and Decker still put up numbers outside of Denver. The reality is though a lot of Bronco players take heat especially if you are supposed to be one of the leaders and better players on the team. How bout the shit we gave Miller for his drug crap a few years ago? It happens, DT isnt a lone in that regard.

[Elevation inc]

Are you talking about the WR Marshall or the LB? If you are talking about the WR he took a LOT of shit and criticism from fans. Especially with the off the field stuff. Almost everyone i have read on here about DT has admitted that DT is one of the most talented WR's we have ever had but he has fubar moments that frustrates the fanbase. Of course fans arent going to give a rookie a lot of crap because 1) they are a rookie, but 2) they arent getting paid to make those plays. I think Decker took more unnecessary heat than DT did and Decker still put up numbers outside of Denver. The reality is though a lot of Bronco players take heat especially if you are supposed to be one of the leaders and better players on the team. How bout the shit we gave Miller for his drug crap a few years ago? It happens, DT isnt a lone in that regard.

LB Marshall, as for miller....drugs vs drops is a big difference to me. All our good players have had fubar moments to include pretty much Peyton's entire last season...lol. I do think decker got way more crap than he deserved. Brandon Marshall deserved his criticism for the off-field stuff for sure....

[Northman]

LB Marshall, as for miller....drugs vs drops is a big difference to me. All our good players have had fubar moments to include pretty much Peyton's entire last season...lol. I do think decker got way more crap than he deserved. Brandon Marshall deserved his criticism for the off-field stuff for sure....

Well, ive never been sold on LB Marshall. Ive been beating a drum for a couple of years now to get a legit playmaker at ILB because im not just sold on Marshall at all. But im hoping that our pass rush gets better so that it can cover that weakness although so far it looks to still be a big problem when we cant get to the QB.

[Elevation inc]

Well, ive never been sold on LB Marshall. Ive been beating a drum for a couple of years now to get a legit playmaker at ILB because im not just sold on Marshall at all. But im hoping that our pass rush gets better so that it can cover that weakness although so far it looks to still be a big problem when we cant get to the QB.

to me we paid the wrong LB we should have paid Trevathan. As soon as I heard about Marshall's weight loss I was like how is it okay for Denver to be good with a 3-4 ILB to drop to 225 lbs. Such a stupid call on his part. I'm happy he is active in the community, but from a player standpoint he has been pretty much ineffective across the board since he got paid. I think Josy is going to start sapping his snaps. I guess that's why I focus on the DT criticism because I really believe it should go elsewhere. however everyone has their opinions including me....

[Northman]

to me we paid the wrong LB we should have paid Trevathan. As soon as I heard about Marshall's weight loss I was like how is it okay for Denver to be good with a 3-4 ILB to drop to 225 lbs. Such a stupid call on his part. I'm happy he is active in the community, but from a player standpoint he has been pretty much ineffective across the board since he got paid. I think Josy is going to start sapping his snaps. I guess that's why I focus on the DT criticism because I really believe it should go elsewhere. however everyone has their opinions including me....

I think it all depends on when the play happens. If DT does that in the first half i doubt anyone remembers let alone cares. But because it was on the final drive its going to stand out. Much like the Rahim Moore play even though the team missed a lot of opportunities throughout the game and in OT. All that is really remembered is the fubar by Moore being out of position. Lol

[Elevation inc]

I think it all depends on when the play happens. If DT does that in the first half i doubt anyone remembers let alone cares. But because it was on the final drive its going to stand out. Much like the Rahim Moore play even though the team missed a lot of opportunities throughout the game and in OT. All that is really remembered is the fubar by Moore being out of position. Lol

I drove from MD to Denver for that game, only saving grace for me was the snowboarding I did at Breckenridge the next day before driving back to MD.....thinking about that game still gives me nightmares

[Northman]

I drove from MD to Denver for that game, only saving grace for me was the snowboarding I did at Breckenridge the next day before driving back to MD.....thinking about that game still gives me nightmares

I agree, the game was horrible. I saw both teams play 2 weeks earlier in Bmore when we won and i thought we would have that game in the bag. Even in the final minute i thought we were in good shape but alas..... history.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

to me we paid the wrong LB we should have paid Trevathan. As soon as I heard about Marshall's weight loss I was like how is it okay for Denver to be good with a 3-4 ILB to drop to 225 lbs. Such a stupid call on his part. I'm happy he is active in the community, but from a player standpoint he has been pretty much ineffective across the board since he got paid. I think Josy is going to start sapping his snaps. I guess that's why I focus on the DT criticism because I really believe it should go elsewhere. however everyone has their opinions including me....
Unfortunately we couldnt pay Danny. He got a huge contract from Chicago.

[Jsteve01]

to me we paid the wrong LB we should have paid Trevathan. As soon as I heard about Marshall's weight loss I was like how is it okay for Denver to be good with a 3-4 ILB to drop to 225 lbs. Such a stupid call on his part. I'm happy he is active in the community, but from a player standpoint he has been pretty much ineffective across the board since he got paid. I think Josy is going to start sapping his snaps. I guess that's why I focus on the DT criticism because I really believe it should go elsewhere. however everyone has their opinions including me....
Unfortunately we couldnt pay Danny. He got a huge contract from Chicago.

And he has had consistent injury issues.

[BeefStew25]

I drove from MD to Denver for that game, only saving grace for me was the snowboarding I did at Breckenridge the next day before driving back to MD.....thinking about that game still gives me nightmares

Did you go to super bowl 50?

[Elevation inc]

Did you go to super bowl 50?

Nope I was deployed. It was a great Morale boost though....

[Broncoknight30]

My question is this. There are teams like the Cowboys and the 49ers that sort of need a WR. Especially the Cowboys. I know it is not going to happen, but considering that the Broncos have some nice young guys, and DT is more than likely gone, what do you think they could get for DT from those two teams?

Lets consider their need. I am wondering if they would be interested. Also, would the Broncos fan base if they landed a 4th for DT right now?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

The probability of landing a productive starter with a 4th is probably less than 10%.

Hard pass

[Poet]

The probability of landing a productive starter with a 4th is probably less than 10%.

Hard pass

If we're doing anything this season we need DT.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah I'm as critical of him as anyone, but trading him right now for a draft pick makes so sense. That's something you do if it's the trade deadline and you're 3-7.

[underrated29]

DT is worth a lot more than a 4th. NO no no to trading him.

Re-work his deal this offseason. Easy. Done.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

If we're doing anything this season we need DT.

Exactly. Sutton is good, but he’s not ready for ten targets a game. Also, if you remove DT Sanders’ production will take a hit.

[Hawgdriver]

Exactly. Sutton is good, but he’s not ready for ten targets a game. Also, if you remove DT Sanders’ production will take a hit.

Sutton is ready for 10 a game in my opinion.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Sutton is ready for 10 a game in my opinion.

Athletically, yes, but how much of a route tree does he know? Is he ready to be the #1?

I’m not so sure. I think he needs a year to develop.

[Hawgdriver]

Athletically, yes, but how much of a route tree does he know? Is he ready to be the #1?

I’m not so sure. I think he needs a year to develop.

If he knows one route and they can't stop him, that's enough of a route tree. With his skill and athleticism, if you can't stop him one on one, just keep feeding him. He can clearly out-physical NFL defenders.

What am I missing?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

If he knows one route and they can't stop him, that's enough of a route tree. With his skill and athleticism, if you can't stop him one on one, just keep feeding him. He can clearly out-physical NFL defenders.

What am I missing?

He’s not faced double teams yet has he?

[Poet]

If he knows one route and they can't stop him, that's enough of a route tree. With his skill and athleticism, if you can't stop him one on one, just keep feeding him. He can clearly out-physical NFL defenders.

What am I missing?

In the history of the NFL, you can find maybe a few guys like that. The last guy who did that was Moss. Not so much the physical part as the 'this 4.2 speed is brutal and I can also jump higher than NBA stars'.

[Hawgdriver]

In the history of the NFL, you can find maybe a few guys like that. The last guy who did that was Moss. Not so much the physical part as the 'this 4.2 speed is brutal and I can also jump higher than NBA stars'.

I was thinking more B. Marshall or Alshon Jeffrey, not as explosive as a Moss, but not someone you can deny.

[Poet]

I was thinking more B. Marshall or Alshon Jeffrey, not as explosive as a Moss, but not someone you can deny.

Both those guys had 300ish yards their rookie years, so if he is them I doubt that he's ready for ten a game, IMO.

He's a mix of Anquan Bolden and Alvin Harper.

[Hawgdriver]

Both those guys had 300ish yards their rookie years, so if he is them I doubt that he's ready for ten a game, IMO.

He's a mix of Anquan Bolden and Alvin Harper.

He's already at 5-6 targets and big dicking it. A few more would be fine.

Whoever he is, he's Courtland Sutton. He's ready for more.

This is where you recognize that I am Falco-ing Sutton, Keenum is the DT and Sutton is the Kelly. I believe in this dude and now is the time. Not sure about Keenum and Kelly, QB is far more cerebral than WR.

A target happens when a dude shows dominance. If it's forced by Musgrave or Keenum, it's no good. If Sutton shows he can just beat his dude play after play, especially one on one vs. an inferior corner, let him roll. He could do that now.

[Valar Morghulis]

He's already at 5-6 targets and big dicking it. A few more would be fine.

Whoever he is, he's Courtland Sutton. He's ready for more.

This is where you recognize that I am Falco-ing Sutton, Keenum is the DT and Sutton is the Kelly. I believe in this dude and now is the time. Not sure about Keenum and Kelly, QB is far more cerebral than WR.

A target happens when a dude shows dominance. If it's forced by Musgrave or Keenum, it's no good. If Sutton shows he can just beat his dude play after play, especially one on one vs. an inferior corner, let him roll. He could do that now.

Just imagine swag throwing to either sutton or Latimer. We would have been unstoppable!!!

[Hawgdriver]

Just imagine swag throwing to either sutton or Latimer. We would have been unstoppable!!!

Swag to Latimar would have $$$$$! Like the wild west but with more genital diseases and gunshot wounds!

[Valar Morghulis]

Swag to Latimar would have $$$$$! Like the wild west but with more genital diseases and gunshot wounds!

You know how to talk dirty to me

[Elevation inc]

sanders dropped a key 3rd down yesterday we should move on from him.....DT didn't get get a clutch 39 yd reception cause bolles got called for holding, we should cut DT......

[Northman]

Sanders got a TD though,....

:laugh:

[Elevation inc]

Sanders got a TD though,....

:laugh:


sneaky sneaky.......

[BroncoWave]

It's getting to the point where every game that DT doesn't have a drop, people are coming in and hailing that as some huge accomplishment. :lol:

I couldn't have made my point better, myself.

[Northman]

DT did have a good game yesterday so i give him credit for that even though people have tried to paint me a hater for pointing out some bad games he has.

[Poet]

DT had a good game and is wasted with such a limited and feckless QB.

[Hawgdriver]

Keenum's feck will be back next week against the Chiefs, Kinger!

[Poet]

Keenum's feck will be back next week against the Chiefs, Kinger!

Then he will get on twitter and tell me to feck off!

[Jsteve01]

DT did have a good game yesterday so i give him credit for that even though people have tried to paint me a hater for pointing out some bad games he has.

Ok now thst we are cool North. I never said hate. I said its spiteful to tout E as better than DT over their time together. I know you just get frustrated with his drops

[Poet]

Sanders left Pitt because he couldn't be the number one and they wouldn't pay him like that. He got paid like a number two.

No one would ever make him the number one. Sanders is to Denver what Houshmanzadeh was to Cincinnati - rightfully loved but viewed with blinders on.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Sanders left Pitt because he couldn't be the number one and they wouldn't pay him like that. He got paid like a number two.

No one would ever make him the number one. Sanders is to Denver what Houshmanzadeh was to Cincinnati - rightfully loved but viewed with blinders on.

Sanders was the #3 guy in Pitt.

[Poet]

Sanders was the #3 guy in Pitt.

This is true, IIRC, but he was a young pup then.

IF he got signed as a number one WR he'd be the next Alvin Harper. Sanders knows DT lets him eat.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This is true, IIRC, but he was a young pup then.

IF he got signed as a number one WR he'd be the next Alvin Harper. Sanders knows DT lets him eat.

Being in single coverage against the #2 corner is pretty nice.

[Poet]

Being in single coverage against the #2 corner is pretty nice.

Didn't he become a Bronco because we were willing to set a 'record' for most money to a number two WR?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Didn't he become a Bronco because we were willing to set a 'record' for most money to a number two WR?

I honestly don’t remember, but he got paid while DT was still on a rookie deal so it worked.

[Poet]

I honestly don’t remember, but he got paid while DT was still on a rookie deal so it worked.

DT let him eat AGAIN! Every thing ES does for us is because of DT.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

DT let him eat AGAIN! Every thing ES does for us is because of DT.

I don’t think those two third down drops were because of DT.

[Poet]

I don’t think those two third down drops were because of DT.

Or that penalty.

Or the issues with playing in the slot.

Or the inability to beat an elite coverage man.

Or the bland run blocking.

Yeah, I'll nitpick a player if they run up on DT!

Anyone can ******* get it. I don't value my life!

[Northman]

Sanders is awesome, right guyz?

[Poet]

He's a nice player, but he's over-loved because DT is over-hated.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Sanders is awesome, right guyz?

He’s a good football player.

[EastCoastBronco]

If I was an opposing defensive coordinator I would start the game with my best guy on Sanders and take my chances with DT catching the ball.
His consistency level would balance out not putting your #1 corner on him, I think.
If it turns out he has the hot hand, switch it back up.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

If I was an opposing defensive coordinator I would start the game with my best guy on Sanders and take my chances with DT catching the ball.
His consistency level would balance out not putting your #1 corner on him, I think.
If it turns out he has the hot hand, switch it back up.

DT would have 100 yards by halftime if you put the #2 on him in single coverage.

[Shazam!]

Defenses do not fear Denver's passing game whatsoever because they know their front 7 can deliver pressure consistently. They may get burned here and there but eventually they will have success.

[Poet]

DT would have 100 yards by halftime if you put the #2 on him in single coverage.

Preach, brother Al!

[BroncoWave]

Preach, brother Al!

As if Keenum would be able to hit DT consistently enough to get him 100 yards in a half. :lol:

[Poet]

As if Keenum would be able to hit DT consistently enough to get him 100 yards in a half. :lol:

I'm mad because this is a valid point.

[Mike]

If I was an opposing defensive coordinator I would start the game with my best guy on Sanders and take my chances with DT catching the ball.
His consistency level would balance out not putting your #1 corner on him, I think.
If it turns out he has the hot hand, switch it back up.

Have your second DB play physical with him and jam him. Takes him out of the game and he can't beat press coverage.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

If I was an opposing defensive coordinator I would start the game with my best guy on Sanders and take my chances with DT catching the ball.
His consistency level would balance out not putting your #1 corner on him, I think.
If it turns out he has the hot hand, switch it back up.


Have your second DB play physical with him and jam him. Takes him out of the game and he can't beat press coverage.

If only defensive coordinators around the league could figure this out!

[Freyaka]

to me we paid the wrong LB we should have paid Trevathan. As soon as I heard about Marshall's weight loss I was like how is it okay for Denver to be good with a 3-4 ILB to drop to 225 lbs. Such a stupid call on his part. I'm happy he is active in the community, but from a player standpoint he has been pretty much ineffective across the board since he got paid. I think Josy is going to start sapping his snaps. I guess that's why I focus on the DT criticism because I really believe it should go elsewhere. however everyone has their opinions including me....

Both are deserving of some criticism. I'm perfectly capable of focusing my ire on multiple people at once so both can be the source of my frustration.

I completely agree though. Twice Elway made the wrong choice and it's been rough on our defense. We should have kept Malik over Wolfe and Danny T over Marshall...

Oh and we should have freaking kept Talib....And wade and you know what...Elway...get it together man!

[Freyaka]

As if Keenum would be able to hit DT consistently enough to get him 100 yards in a half. :lol:

Has Keenum actually thrown for 100 yards in the first half yet this season?

[Poet]

Both are deserving of some criticism. I'm perfectly capable of focusing my ire on multiple people at once so both can be the source of my frustration.

I completely agree though. Twice Elway made the wrong choice and it's been rough on our defense. We should have kept Malik over Wolfe and Danny T over Marshall...

Oh and we should have freaking kept Talib....And wade and you know what...Elway...get it together man!

Malik was going to take the massive amounts of money and he went to Jax; his play in Jax was good, not worth the money UNTIL Campbell signed and let Jackson be second fiddle again. I had frustrations with Elway for not going harder after Campbell, but I get it.

And Danny Trevathen got a massive payday and didn't make a difference on Chicago until that roster got more talent.

That's the move I understand the most, to be honest.

We dealt Talib because VJ is a weakling.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Malik was going to take the massive amounts of money and he went to Jax; his play in Jax was good, not worth the money UNTIL Campbell signed and let Jackson be second fiddle again. I had frustrations with Elway for not going harder after Campbell, but I get it.

And Danny Trevathen got a massive payday and didn't make a difference on Chicago until that roster got more talent.

That's the move I understand the most, to be honest.

We dealt Talib because VJ is a weakling.

Denver did go hard after Campbell. Many thought he would sign with the Broncos but he instead chose to sign with the team having the younger roster.

[Freyaka]

Denver did go hard after Campbell. Many thought he would sign with the Broncos but he instead chose to sign with the team having the younger roster.

He made the better choice. That team is 1000 times better at this point at every single level (despite the fact that they too lost yesterday)

[Poet]

Denver did go hard after Campbell. Many thought he would sign with the Broncos but he instead chose to sign with the team having the younger roster.

He didn't match the offer, though. We then rolled four million dollars over.

It was horrid, Al.

[Jsteve01]

to me we paid the wrong LB we should have paid Trevathan. As soon as I heard about Marshall's weight loss I was like how is it okay for Denver to be good with a 3-4 ILB to drop to 225 lbs. Such a stupid call on his part. I'm happy he is active in the community, but from a player standpoint he has been pretty much ineffective across the board since he got paid. I think Josy is going to start sapping his snaps. I guess that's why I focus on the DT criticism because I really believe it should go elsewhere. however everyone has their opinions including me....

Both are deserving of some criticism. I'm perfectly capable of focusing my ire on multiple people at once so both can be the source of my frustration.

I completely agree though. Twice Elway made the wrong choice and it's been rough on our defense. We should have kept Malik over Wolfe and Danny T over Marshall...

Oh and we should have freaking kept Talib....And wade and you know what...Elway...get it together man!

At that point in their careers Wolfe was the better player and is much stouter vs the run. Also danny has been hurt forever.

[Jsteve01]

Malik was going to take the massive amounts of money and he went to Jax; his play in Jax was good, not worth the money UNTIL Campbell signed and let Jackson be second fiddle again. I had frustrations with Elway for not going harder after Campbell, but I get it.

And Danny Trevathen got a massive payday and didn't make a difference on Chicago until that roster got more talent.

That's the move I understand the most, to be honest.

We dealt Talib because VJ is a weakling.

Denver did go hard after Campbell. Many thought he would sign with the Broncos but he instead chose to sign with the team having the younger roster.

No we didnt match that money. Elway is getting a reputation for lowballing in free agency. He cant hang his hat on pfm anymore and we are missing on the top tier free agents. He has done an excellent job of finding the Talibs and stewarts and Sanders who are fringe players and helping them make the leap. Talib was already beast but the injuries and character issues were concerning. Elway parlayed that into a relatively friendly deal.

[Jsteve01]

Malik was going to take the massive amounts of money and he went to Jax; his play in Jax was good, not worth the money UNTIL Campbell signed and let Jackson be second fiddle again. I had frustrations with Elway for not going harder after Campbell, but I get it.

And Danny Trevathen got a massive payday and didn't make a difference on Chicago until that roster got more talent.

That's the move I understand the most, to be honest.

We dealt Talib because VJ is a weakling.

Denver did go hard after Campbell. Many thought he would sign with the Broncos but he instead chose to sign with the team having the younger roster.

No we didnt match that money. Elway is getting a reputation for lowballing in free agency. He cant hang his hat on pfm anymore and we are missing on the top tier free agents. He has done an excellent job of finding the Talibs and stewarts and Sanders who are fringe players and helping them make the leap. Talib was already beast but the injuries and character issues were concerning. Elway parlayed that into a relatively friendly deal.

The pitch to Campbell was hey come play in your home town for millions less per year.

[Northman]

If I was an opposing defensive coordinator I would start the game with my best guy on Sanders and take my chances with DT catching the ball.
His consistency level would balance out not putting your #1 corner on him, I think.
If it turns out he has the hot hand, switch it back up.

Makes some sense.

[Northman]

As if Keenum would be able to hit DT consistently enough to get him 100 yards in a half. :lol:

Preach it brother Wave!

[EastCoastBronco]

DT would have 100 yards by halftime if you put the #2 on him in single coverage.

If he was consistent he would have 100 yards by halftime and the DC would switch up the coverage.
My whole argument is his inconsistency.
I love the guy.
He's nice and he's tougher than a coffin nail but half the time he's on the field his head is up his arse.
I seriously think he has focusing issues.

[Poet]

If we had A.J. Green the fans would complain about the drops and the fumbles, as well as the inconsistent blocking. If we had Julio Jones we would complain about the route running. If it was AB we'd say we wish he was a bit bigger for the red zone. If it was ODB we'd wish he was sane...that one might be fair.

The irony is that I've seen people say 'oh he dropped that ball' when the pass was awful and it wasn't recorded as a dropped ball.

Then it's 'well he was only great with Manning' as if Reggie Wayne didn't go from Manning to luck and Harrison played only with PFM sans one season. And DT's numbers with PFM stand up to both of those guys.

DT has done wondrful on teams with bad lines, bland running games, and worse QB play.

Tom Brady would have sex with a woman to have someone like DT.

[Northman]

If we had A.J. Green the fans would complain about the drops and the fumbles, as well as the inconsistent blocking. If we had Julio Jones we would complain about the route running. If it was AB we'd say we wish he was a bit bigger for the red zone. If it was ODB we'd wish he was sane...that one might be fair.

The irony is that I've seen people say 'oh he dropped that ball' when the pass was awful and it wasn't recorded as a dropped ball.

Then it's 'well he was only great with Manning' as if Reggie Wayne didn't go from Manning to luck and Harrison played only with PFM sans one season. And DT's numbers with PFM stand up to both of those guys.

DT has done wondrful on teams with bad lines, bland running games, and worse QB play.

Tom Brady would have sex with a woman to have someone like DT.

Brady did, his name was Randy Moss.

[EastCoastBronco]

If we had A.J. Green the fans would complain about the drops and the fumbles, as well as the inconsistent blocking. If we had Julio Jones we would complain about the route running. If it was AB we'd say we wish he was a bit bigger for the red zone. If it was ODB we'd wish he was sane...that one might be fair.

The irony is that I've seen people say 'oh he dropped that ball' when the pass was awful and it wasn't recorded as a dropped ball.

Then it's 'well he was only great with Manning' as if Reggie Wayne didn't go from Manning to luck and Harrison played only with PFM sans one season. And DT's numbers with PFM stand up to both of those guys.

DT has done wondrful on teams with bad lines, bland running games, and worse QB play.

Tom Brady would have sex with a woman to have someone like DT.

DT would be benched by Uncle Bill until he could catch the ball consistently after the second or third drop on third down.

[Poet]

You would think DT has 25 recorded drops a season by the way some fans talk. Newsflash, shitty TS and CK passes at someone's feet or a foot over someone's head isn't scored a drop because someone got a hand on the ball.

[Freyaka]

Brady did, his name was Randy Moss.

That's how he ended up with his son, but he'd do it again for someone like DT.

[BroncoWave]

You would think DT has 25 recorded drops a season by the way some fans talk. Newsflash, shitty TS and CK passes at someone's feet or a foot over someone's head isn't scored a drop because someone got a hand on the ball.

It's not a drop on the stat sheet, no, but if you want to be known as an elite WR, then you should be able to consistently catch balls that are poorly thrown but still catchable. That separates the good ones from the great ones.

[Poet]

It's not a drop on the stat sheet, no, but if you want to be known as an elite WR, then you should be able to consistently catch balls that are poorly thrown but still catchable. That separates the good ones from the great ones.

These aren't an occasional errant pass - these are balls that the success percentage is going to be low on - and we act like DT doesn't make these tough catches, either. DT went from being a big play machine to being handcuffed to TS and CK. Two weak armed pissants. We used to forget about some of these drops because he'd just take the ball into the endzone after embarrassing a safety and a corner. We put a guy who was considered top five in the worst possible situation for his game.

[BroncoJoe]

It's not a drop on the stat sheet, no, but if you want to be known as an elite WR, then you should be able to consistently catch balls that are poorly thrown but still catchable. That separates the good ones from the great ones.

Don't forget diving for the ball!

Still waiting for that epic thread from UR...

[underrated29]

The pitch to Campbell was hey come play in your home town for millions less per year.

It was like 2 million. But there is no sales tax in FL so it ended up being higher. We were going to pay the guy a ton of money. It was not anything like you just said. It was also down to us and Jax and he ultimately decided on jax. It wasnt like he saw ours and said big gulps huh see you guys later.

[Poet]

It was like 2 million. But there is no sales tax in FL so it ended up being higher. We were going to pay the guy a ton of money. It was not anything like you just said. It was also down to us and Jax and he ultimately decided on jax. It wasnt like he saw ours and said big gulps huh see you guys later.

We had the money to pay him - even to top the offer, and he's still a star in his prime years.

It was putrid. I mourned that day.

[underrated29]

Don't forget diving for the ball!

Still waiting for that epic thread from UR...



It is coming. I just have a lot of work right now. I though, if I was you, would not be looking forward to it. I am going to smite you on the mountainside along with the others. Sorry Joe, I still love you, but it has to be done.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It is coming. I just have a lot of work right now. I though, if I was you, would not be looking forward to it. I am going to smite you on the mountainside along with the others. Sorry Joe, I still love you, but it has to be done.

I may start playing fort nite just to have the pleasure of shooting you.

[underrated29]

We had the money to pay him - even to top the offer, and he's still a star in his prime years.

It was putrid. I mourned that day.



I do too. Wished he was here, but no sales tax and 2 mil less turns into 3-4 mil per year extra. That is a smart play.



I bet after we re-work DT this year, cut Marshall and Dstew, and maybe Todd Davis, and Roby (we let walk)......Possibly POSSIBLY we do not bring Case back.......We are going to have a lot of money to go sign some stellar FA. Most seem to forget that we have been right up against the cap the last few years. It is hard to bring in those stellar guys when we have the chumps I listed and guys like Menelik watson and Stephenson or whatever the RT name was chewing up tons of cap.


---------
The garbage is being cleaned out. We will be able to shop real soon. And I do not want to hear it was because of Peyton Manning. Thats a dumb excuse. Look at the jags, were they able to sign campbell and all of the FA they got to help make their team good because of Blake Bortles?

[underrated29]

I may start playing fort nite just to have the pleasure of shooting you.



It will be all you can do my friend. The thunder has been called down. Just a quick fyi- My son is usually playing on my account so if you send a message, just know it is probably him. I did play for about 30 minutes last night after I got done with some work before bed though. Come get me!! (im not very good at that game at all)

[Freyaka]

We had the money to pay him - even to top the offer, and he's still a star in his prime years.

It was putrid. I mourned that day.

And had we paid the money, we could have taken a QB instead of Chubb...

[Freyaka]

I may start playing fort nite just to have the pleasure of shooting you.

Even shooting UR29 wouldn't make it worth playing fort nite...don't do it AW4M...Everytime I play that dumb game I regret it.

[BroncoJoe]

It is coming. I just have a lot of work right now. I though, if I was you, would not be looking forward to it. I am going to smite you on the mountainside along with the others. Sorry Joe, I still love you, but it has to be done.

You've been saying this for months now. I'm planning on reading your "beat-down" in retirement. If even then...

[Poet]

I love DT.

[EastCoastBronco]

I love DT.

I know.

[MOtorboat]

You've been saying this for months now. I'm planning on reading your "beat-down" in retirement. If even then...

I don’t even remember what the thread was about. UR proving DT doesn’t dive, which we’ve all said he doesn’t do? An epic beat down, I’m sure.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Even shooting UR29 wouldn't make it worth playing fort nite...don't do it AW4M...Everytime I play that dumb game I regret it.

I won’t. I play Crossout a few times a week and don’t really have time to play another game.

[underrated29]

I don’t even remember what the thread was about. UR proving DT doesn’t dive, which we’ve all said he doesn’t do? An epic beat down, I’m sure.


Actually, just you and myself and slick know this. Let me rephrase- Everyone knows this, just you myself and slick admit it. Everyone else seems to bury their head in a pillow.

[MOtorboat]

Actually, just you and myself and slick know this. Let me rephrase- Everyone knows this, just you myself and slick admit it. Everyone else seems to bury their head in a pillow.

No they don’t. Most of us just don’t care.

[underrated29]

No they don’t. Most of us just don’t care.


They do. You have already seen some of their responses in here.

[MOtorboat]

They do. You have already seen some of their responses in here.

I guess I missed those...

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I’d rather have a receiver who goes over the middle and a receiver who is physical in the run game than a receiver who dives for and catches a few balls per year.

[Northman]

Its all about the feels.

[underrated29]

I’d rather have a receiver who goes over the middle and a receiver who is physical in the run game than a receiver who dives for and catches a few balls per year.

#Metoo.

[EastCoastBronco]

I’d rather have a receiver who goes over the middle and a receiver who is physical in the run game than a receiver who dives for and catches a few balls per year.

With the money we are paying him, I expect both...and, as an added bonus, to catch the ones right on his numbers.

[Poet]

Most WR's have some truly bad drops.

If DT wasn't here you'd be irked that ES wasn't a real number one WR and that we should have paid DT.

For years he's been the driving force on the offense - it's hard to expect a WR to carry an entire offense. Honestly, had DT been paired with a bad QB but one who could challenge the field, someone like Fitzpatrick the frustration wouldn't be as bad because you'd still get those big plays.

DT's play has never been a top reason why this offense struggled.

Let's rein this shit in.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2010

DT has been better than Bradford. He's been on one team, unlike Suh, and Suh has attitude issues and isn't the same guy anymore (that might be true for DT, too, I can't tell because we only get loser QB's).

McCoy's still really good, though.

Trent Williams and Eric Berry are good, but both have had issues with staying on the field. Some of that is cancer, in fairness to EB, and that's not a dig at the man.

Both Okung and Haden are shades of their former selves.

McClain, Spiller, Alualu, Mathews....please.

Graham and Thomas? Both still quite good, although Graham gets a lot of love for a pass rusher who doesn't rack up a lot of sacks.

JPP, Iupati, and Pouncey are at various levels of merit. Iupati has slowed down, Pouncey has had injury issues, and JPP has had an up and down career. ANyone wanna give those guys top dollar? They all got it at one point and then slowed down a bit do to age. So what? The back part of contracts for guys often are a bit out of whack. Welcome to contracting.

I think Morgan, from the Titans, is out of the league.

For the rest of that list I want you to read those names, look at their careers, and then come back in here and apologize to DT.

[Northman]

With the money we are paying him, I expect both...and, as an added bonus, to catch the ones right on his numbers.

I know right? Its not like we are asking for the world! Just catch the easy passes too you bum! Lol

[Shazam!]

King Fitz cam play elite but he can also look awful man. He is not elite as you make him out to be.

He kinda like Jeff George?

[Poet]

King Fitz cam play elite but he can also look awful man. He is not elite as you make him out to be.

He kinda like Jeff George?

I think he's trash, Shazam - my point is that if DT even had a BAD deep ball Qb the fans wouldn't hate him as much.

But we have BAD deep ball throwers. It's mitigated one of his biggest strengths.

Fitz isn't George because Fitz works hard and is a team guy. George was one of the most talented guys to do it and wasted his ability because he's a whiny baby back bitch.

[Elevation inc]

I cant even with this dumbassery anymore....DT is a beast who has given his all for the city of Denver...ungrateful M'fers(HAHA).....you would think he was disliked more than McKenzie at this point...lol

[BeefStew25]

I love when King is finally right.

[Poet]

I love when King is finally right.

We will always have the NBA, baby girl.

[underrated29]

I do not know anyone who doesnt like him. I have maintained that he is not an Elite WR. He is a very very very/was a very very very good wr. But not Elite and not anymore.

[Shazam!]

I don't see too much disrespect for DT here. Most appreciate his major contribution during the Manning years. But gotta face the facts, he is not feared anymore and is clearly not the same threat. He was part of a Broncos championship team. For the money though the Broncos can do much better unless he takes a major pay cut. This team has massive holes.

[Poet]

The gameday threads are rife with disrespect to the young man.

[BroncoWave]

The gameday threads are rife with disrespect to the young man.

King, you know better than to take anything said in a game thread seriously.

[Poet]

King, you know better than to take anything said in a game thread seriously.

If someone screamed **** John Elway in a gameday thread could we forgive it?

If someone called Atwater a pussyhole in the gameday thread, would we turn away from the sin?

Not that DT is upon this level, but would we clearly ignore all transgressions?

[BroncoWave]

If someone screamed **** John Elway in a gameday thread could we forgive it?

If someone called Atwater a pussyhole in the gameday thread, would we turn away from the sin?

Not that DT is upon this level, but would we clearly ignore all transgressions?

Yes.

[Poet]

Yes.

Wave, you're a full-fledged style god...we are not to be debased. Almost anything can go and be forgiven, but some sins kept up long enough...there's no way back. Sometimes we have to cook a man alive because he just wanted to watch the world burn.

Other times we just eat chicken wings.

[Jsteve01]

The pitch to Campbell was hey come play in your home town for millions less per year.

It was like 2 million. But there is no sales tax in FL so it ended up being higher. We were going to pay the guy a ton of money. It was not anything like you just said. It was also down to us and Jax and he ultimately decided on jax. It wasnt like he saw ours and said big gulps huh see you guys later.

hahaha 2million is two million. I always enjoy folks acting millions dont matter to people who are wealthy. John consistently lowballs folks. It is fact.

[Freyaka]

Wave, you're a full-fledged style god...we are not to be debased. Almost anything can go and be forgiven, but some sins kept up long enough...there's no way back. Sometimes we have to cook a man alive because he just wanted to watch the world burn.

Other times we just eat chicken wings.

Na man, wings are for winners.

[Poet]

Na man, wings are for winners.

Which is why I don't any DT haters wings.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I eat wings. Lots of wings.

[Poet]

I eat wings. Lots of wings.

I'm going to be meaner to you now.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'm going to be meaner to you now.

I lied. I enjoy them occasionally.

[Poet]

I lied. I enjoy them occasionally.

Your Joel comment was an affront to nature and you must pay for your sins.