Thanks, Gruden You're Awesome...for the Broncos.

[Ground Control]

Gave away his best player...because why? He thought the obstinate path was the best way to resolve his first player holdout? He did set an example for mid-levels clowns that can be replaced on any NFL team but when you have the cream of the crop, you learn to swallow your pride and that the goal is bigger than your 10 mil/ year, spent the last 10 years controlling nothing more than a mic and a marketing brand, bloated ego.

Why would any elite player want to go through that and deal with Gruden in the future? Seems like he just set the precedent to work with only draft picks (of which he has shown middling ability at choosing so far) and mid level vets.

10 million a year for a media personality that did win one SB, and is (was?) a decent play caller, but is showing his label as an idiot at personnel management. Are the Raiders thinking solely about PR and the Vegas move? The draft haul is impressive but Gruden's personnel choices haven't been, so far. This is not the 90's Cowboys trade of Walker on any level, and Gruden is no Jimmy Johnson.

Regardless, all the better for the Broncos (at least for the next few years)! Let's not take this for granted. Assume every team is a threat and step on their throats, every game! Gruden seems to be making all the right moves for the Broncos, and the Raiders' continued anonymity, so far though....

[Ground Control]

kind of cool seeing the Bears maybe getting their linebacker mojo back though. Not sure he's worth that much (for sure not more than A Donald) but still, he's a great, for sure. And it's not my money, and he's not a concern for anyone in the AFC West anymore.

Jon Gruden is awesome!

[Dzone]

Thanks Gruden! Broncos fans couldnt ask for a bigger idiot coaching oakland. Good job! hahaha

[Valar Morghulis]

I actually think it was a good call. Can't pay top qb and Mack what he wanted. Get him gone.

The only down side for me is that I would have wanted more in the trade.

Gruden has ten years and the 4 first round picks in the next two years will help him make the team in his vision.

I am however very happy that Mack is no longer in the afc West

[UnderArmour]

I actually think it was a good call. Can't pay top qb and Mack what he wanted. Get him gone.

The only down side for me is that I would have wanted more in the trade.

Gruden has ten years and the 4 first round picks in the next two years will help him make the team in his vision.

I am however very happy that Mack is no longer in the afc West

With the likelihood of the cap continuing to increase at the rate that it has been, Oakland (well, soon to be Las Vegas) could have absolutely afforded to pay him within the salary cap. There definitely is the issue of liquid cash, which the McCaskey family has TONS of on hand, that was needed to make the Mack deal work for Chicago, which none of us fans will ever know was just false rumors/noise, or the actual truth. They now have two first round picks, but it is very unlikely they will match the production of a Khalil Mack with either of those picks. There is a reason that when the Broncos were offered 2 first round picks for pick #5, they declined and took Chubb. Granted, salary plays a huge part in that, but pass rushers are simply more valuable than draft capital.

It's also interesting that Mack will now be going to a 3-4, where he was always sort of meant to be. I think Mack's production was going to drop in Gunther's scheme, but now we get to see what he can do at a more natural position.

[Jsteve01]

I actually think it was a good call. Can't pay top qb and Mack what he wanted. Get him gone.

The only down side for me is that I would have wanted more in the trade.

Gruden has ten years and the 4 first round picks in the next two years will help him make the team in his vision.

I am however very happy that Mack is no longer in the afc West

With the likelihood of the cap continuing to increase at the rate that it has been, Oakland (well, soon to be Las Vegas) could have absolutely afforded to pay him within the salary cap. There definitely is the issue of liquid cash, which the McCaskey family has TONS of on hand, that was needed to make the Mack deal work for Chicago, which none of us fans will ever know was just false rumors/noise, or the actual truth. They now have two first round picks, but it is very unlikely they will match the production of a Khalil Mack with either of those picks. There is a reason that when the Broncos were offered 2 first round picks for pick #5, they declined and took Chubb. Granted, salary plays a huge part in that, but pass rushers are simply more valuable than draft capital.

It's also interesting that Mack will now be going to a 3-4, where he was always sort of meant to be. I think Mack's production was going to drop in Gunther's scheme, but now we get to see what he can do at a more natural position.

Great post. Thats the thing about the nature of the leagues continued growth. That deal is affordable in three years. And he is the only guy in the league who is as versatile as Von. Mac is also known to be a fantastic teammate. It was a complete ego deal on Grooms part. And all I can say right now is I honestly do feel bad for poor Reggie McKenzie watching the roster that he put together get pulled apart piece-by-piece

[chanesaw]

I guess Keenum is more likely to start the entire season now.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I actually think it was a good call. Can't pay top qb and Mack what he wanted. Get him gone.

The only down side for me is that I would have wanted more in the trade.

Gruden has ten years and the 4 first round picks in the next two years will help him make the team in his vision.

I am however very happy that Mack is no longer in the afc West

Mack has almost single handedly beaten us, twice. I’m glad he’s gone too.

[Devilspawn]

Gruden > Joseph.

Actually Ham Sandwich > Joseph.

Agreed?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Gruden > Joseph.

Actually Ham Sandwich > Joseph.

Agreed?

I don’t know if Gruden had much is say in this, even though he’s vilified for it.

[Devilspawn]

Mack has almost single handedly beaten us, twice. I’m glad he’s gone too.
Let's break this down.

2014 - Nope (0-2)
2015 - Yes. He won that game with 5 sacks including a safety. (1-1)
2016 - Nope. Raiders ran down your throat in the game they won. (1-1)
2017 - First round bust Paxton Lynch started that game. He couldn't even JaMarcus his way to a victory against us. Anyway a 54 yard pass to Corderelle Patterson saved that game. (1-1)

So with Mack, the Raiders were 3-5 and he single handedly beat Denver 1 game in 4 years.

I get it, he's damn good. But come on lol.

[Nomad]

Gruden > Joseph.

Actually Ham Sandwich > Joseph.

Agreed?

Whoa, now!! No need to throw daggers. :D

[Slick]

Let's break this down.

2014 - Nope (0-2)
2015 - Yes. He won that game with 5 sacks including a safety. (1-1)
2016 - Nope. Raiders ran down your throat in the game they won. (1-1)
2017 - First round bust Paxton Lynch started that game. He couldn't even JaMarcus his way to a victory against us. Anyway a 54 yard pass to Corderelle Patterson saved that game. (1-1)

So with Mack, the Raiders were 3-5 and he single handedly beat Denver 1 game in 4 years.

I get it, he's damn good. But come on lol.

I think you're oversimplifying 60 minute football games here.

[Devilspawn]

I think you're oversimplifying 60 minute football games here.
No I watched the games. Mack won the 2015 game in Denver. He contributed to but was not the main factor in the other two wins.

[Hawgdriver]

Gruden > Joseph.

Actually Ham Sandwich > Joseph.

Agreed?

Nolo contendere.

[Ziggy]

Mack is a hall of fame talent entering the prime of his career. You have to be drinking some serious Kool-Aid to buy in on this move if you're a Raiders fan. The odds of the Raiders finding a player of Mack's talent with those two first round picks is slim to none. Gruden is already the MVP of every team in the AFC West not named the Oakland Raiders.

[Poet]

Mack is a hall of fame talent entering the prime of his career. You have to be drinking some serious Kool-Aid to buy in on this move if you're a Raiders fan. The odds of the Raiders finding a player of Mack's talent with those two first round picks is slim to none. Gruden is already the MVP of every team in the AFC West not named the Oakland Raiders.

To get someone like Mack, you usually would have to trade some first rounders to move up in the draft.

[TXBRONC]

Let's break this down.

2014 - Nope (0-2)
2015 - Yes. He won that game with 5 sacks including a safety. (1-1)
2016 - Nope. Raiders ran down your throat in the game they won. (1-1)
2017 - First round bust Paxton Lynch started that game. He couldn't even JaMarcus his way to a victory against us. Anyway a 54 yard pass to Corderelle Patterson saved that game. (1-1)

So with Mack, the Raiders were 3-5 and he single handedly beat Denver 1 game in 4 years.

I get it, he's damn good. But come on lol.

That's really the point isn't Spawn? Losing Mack is rather significant blow to the Raiders defense don't you think? I don't see anyone else right now that can be a consistent pass rushing threat.

[Hawgdriver]

This is about Vegas.

[Devilspawn]

That's really the point isn't Spawn? Losing Mack is rather significant blow to the Raiders defense don't you think? I don't see anyone else right now that can be a consistent pass rushing threat.
We'll see. Never said I was happy about it, and I do expect a few weeks of "they really miss Khalil Mack" but this trade was about setting up a future for a number of players on both sides of the ball that can hold down the fort in place of Mack. Not BE Mack but be a team that can live without him and win.

I don't know if this is true, but no NFL team has two players making over $20 million dollars. If it came down to a QB vs. a DE/LB being our top dollar, I'll choose the QB. If he lives up to it. And I can't think of any team that wins the salary cap game every year by keeping everyone they want.

The Raiders were good when Carr was good. When Mack was good, which was 100% of the time, the Raiders were mediocre-bad unless Carr was the driving force, pun intended. So it really comes down to Carr returning to 2016 form more than anything else. Carr overcame a bad defense that year. Mack didn't overcome a bad offense the other years. Not his fault, but it explains why an affordable change in the roster was needed. The Raiders freed up $20 and will have a lot of room next year.

Again, I don't like the trade. Mack would've made this defensive line MUCH better, especially with seeing how well they played in the preseason. This is something that can't be judged until all the picks are made or Mack leads a defense to a championship with a bad QB.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

We'll see. Never said I was happy about it, and I do expect a few weeks of "they really miss Khalil Mack" but this trade was about setting up a future for a number of players on both sides of the ball that can hold down the fort in place of Mack. Not BE Mack but be a team that can live without him and win.

I don't know if this is true, but no NFL team has two players making over $20 dollars. If it came down to a QB vs. a DE/LB being our top dollar, I'll choose the QB. If he lives up to it. And I can't think of any team that wins the salary cap game every year by keeping everyone they want.

The Raiders were good when Carr was good. When Mack was good, which was 100% of the time, the Raiders were mediocre-bad unless Carr was the driving force, pun intended. So it really comes down to Carr returning to 2016 form more than anything else. Carr overcame a bad defense that year. Mack didn't overcome a bad offense the other years. Not his fault, but it explains why an affordable change in the roster was needed. The Raiders freed up $20 and will have a lot of room next year.

Again, I don't like the trade. Mack would've made this defensive line MUCH better, especially with seeing how well they played in the preseason. This is something that can't be judged until all the picks are made or Mack leads a defense to a championship with a bad QB.

Well said

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This is about Vegas.

Agreed

[Valar Morghulis]

This is about Vegas.

How so?

[Hawgdriver]

How so?

The team moves to Vegas in a couple years. The Vegas product more important than the Oakland product.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

The team moves to Vegas in a couple years. The Vegas product more important than the Oakland product.

And the team will be worth more in Vegas. I’m assuming they won’t have cash flow problems there. The Davis ownership group is probably the least wealthy in the NFL.

[Valar Morghulis]

The team moves to Vegas in a couple years. The Vegas product more important than the Oakland product.

I understand that but I don't see how trading their best player, and probably revenue earner helps establish a better product for Vegas

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I understand that but I don't see how trading their best player, and probably revenue earner helps establish a better product for Vegas

They’ll be able to generate interest once they’re there. They’ll have a marquee quarterback and at least one blue chip draft pick when they move to Vegas. As long as they don’t suck horribly bad this year they’ll be fine.

[NightTrainLayne]

I understand that but I don't see how trading their best player, and probably revenue earner helps establish a better product for Vegas

The draft picks will hit just as they are moving.

They'll have 2 #1's in 2019. Maybe a really high one if they tank this year. Two #1's in 2020. (As long as they haven't traded one away that I don't know about).

IF (and that's definitely an "if") they can hit on those picks, they'll have a lot of young talent all at the same time, and a decent QB in his prime.

[Hawgdriver]

I understand that but I don't see how trading their best player, and probably revenue earner helps establish a better product for Vegas

Shifting two years of known production for possible stars farther into the future...just shifts the expected heights of production a few years out. Might get the new city more invested in the young, exciting team with endless possibilities.

But you make a good point. But Mack will be older, perhaps on the shady side of his prime, and the contracts tie their hands. I think ownership is already mentally moving on to the Vegas market and not as concerned about legacy fans.

Maybe I'm full of shit?

[Valar Morghulis]

You are definitely full of shit.

But you might be right!

[TXBRONC]

We'll see. Never said I was happy about it, and I do expect a few weeks of "they really miss Khalil Mack" but this trade was about setting up a future for a number of players on both sides of the ball that can hold down the fort in place of Mack. Not BE Mack but be a team that can live without him and win.

I don't know if this is true, but no NFL team has two players making over $20 million dollars. If it came down to a QB vs. a DE/LB being our top dollar, I'll choose the QB. If he lives up to it. And I can't think of any team that wins the salary cap game every year by keeping everyone they want.

The Raiders were good when Carr was good. When Mack was good, which was 100% of the time, the Raiders were mediocre-bad unless Carr was the driving force, pun intended. So it really comes down to Carr returning to 2016 form more than anything else. Carr overcame a bad defense that year. Mack didn't overcome a bad offense the other years. Not his fault, but it explains why an affordable change in the roster was needed. The Raiders freed up $20 and will have a lot of room next year.

Again, I don't like the trade. Mack would've made this defensive line MUCH better, especially with seeing how well they played in the preseason. This is something that can't be judged until all the picks are made or Mack leads a defense to a championship with a bad QB.

I get it, they traded Mack to set for the future. Like you said we'll see how this plays out.

[Ground Control]

The team moves to Vegas in a couple years. The Vegas product more important than the Oakland product.

Yeah, Heard that perspective on 760 today also. Gave away their best player in Oakland...for future players in Vegas. Now, please line up and fork out your money Oakland fans! Suckers. Almost makes me feel sorry for them....almost.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Yeah, Heard that perspective on 760 today also. Gave away their best player in Oakland...for future players in Vegas. Now, please line up and fork out your money Oakland fans! Suckers. Almost makes me feel sorry for them....almost.

They only have about 40k show up for there games

[Ground Control]

They only have about 40k show up for there games

I wonder if this will drive it even lower? Gruden had potential to bring more to the stands (maybe?), but now...?

Could get ugly.

Which I'm OK with. At least, for that franchise. I do actually feel a little sorry for the fans. Decades of loyalty, spit on.

Again.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I wonder if this will drive it even lower? Gruden had potential to bring more to the stands (maybe?), but now...?

Could get ugly.

Which I'm OK with. At least, for that franchise. I do actually feel a little sorry for the fans. Decades of loyalty, spit on.

Again.

At this point I don’t know if it matters. Their financial prognostications are probably not affected by how many show up this year. The attendance has sucked for a while

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Devilspawn View Post
We'll see. Never said I was happy about it, and I do expect a few weeks of "they really miss Khalil Mack" but this trade was about setting up a future for a number of players on both sides of the ball that can hold down the fort in place of Mack. Not BE Mack but be a team that can live without him and win.

I don't know if this is true, but no NFL team has two players making over $20 million dollars. If it came down to a QB vs. a DE/LB being our top dollar, I'll choose the QB. If he lives up to it. And I can't think of any team that wins the salary cap game every year by keeping everyone they want.

The Raiders were good when Carr was good. When Mack was good, which was 100% of the time, the Raiders were mediocre-bad unless Carr was the driving force, pun intended. So it really comes down to Carr returning to 2016 form more than anything else. Carr overcame a bad defense that year. Mack didn't overcome a bad offense the other years. Not his fault, but it explains why an affordable change in the roster was needed. The Raiders freed up $20 and will have a lot of room next year.

That "he's too expensive! We can't compete!" Is just complete B.S. they spin to fool the fans. In reality the salary cap is going up every year. What is a lot of money now in 2 or 3 years is a mediocre contract.

Von Miller's 6 year, $114m, contract was record breaking - 2 years ago! Then Odell Beckham Jr. and Mack and Aaron Donald signed. Aaron Donald signed a 6 year, $135,000,000 contract with the Los Angeles Rams, including a $40,000,000 signing bonus, $86,892,000 guaranteed.

Within a couple of years Mack's average of $22m a year, will be eclipsed, but he'll still be under contract. And Von Miller's $19m a year will be CHEAP by the time year 5 and 6 of his contract rolls around.

Miller and Mack just showed what they can do on Sunday. There's almost ZERO chance that whoever the Faders draft with those picks will be anywhere close to as good as Mack. The Raiders could afford Mack. They just don't want to pay him because they're cheap!

And I think that's totally great! :beer:

[Cugel]

Lots of people are happy about the trade:



Chiefs GM Brett Veach on Khalil Mack trade: “We’re excited”
303 comments
The Chiefs general manager is happy the Kansas City no longer has to deal with the All-Pro defensive end.

“We were excited. Yeah, we were excited,” Veach said during a conference call Saturday. “I think I was probably the first one to call [Bears coach] Matt (Nagy) [Saturday], and I congratulated him and I said, ‘The Bears and the Chiefs just got better today.’”

[Slick]

He sure is getting a lot of credit for Kizer throwing the ball right to him.

The strip fumble was impressive but the int was an effing gift.

[Poet]

He sure is getting a lot of credit for Kizer throwing the ball right to him.

The strip fumble was impressive but the int was an effing gift.

Later on in that game a Bears defender dropped a ball that was thrown right at him.

Defenders apparently have barely functioning hands.

[Cugel]

He sure is getting a lot of credit for Kizer throwing the ball right to him.

The strip fumble was impressive but the int was an effing gift.

If the trade depended solely on that one game, the Raiders got hosed anyway. But, it didn't. What difference does it make whether Mack got an easy INT?

He's still one of the top 3 Defenders in the NFL and a former NFL Defensive MVP. The trade still utterly sucks from Oakland's perspective.

They have one of the oldest, most veteran rosters in the NFL. And they just told their veterans - "we're not trying to win now, we're building for 3 years from now when we're in Las Vegas! Suckas!"

[Buff]

Black hole this embarrassing thread... The structure of the thread title just screams "We are mouth breathers!"

[Jsteve01]

Black hole this embarrassing thread... The structure of the thread title just screams "We are mouth breathers!"

Grumpy much

[BeefStew25]

Grumpy much

Don’t talk to my friend like that.

[Buff]

Grumpy much

We are the superior fan base. We shouldn't rely on the joke structure of a 7 year old.

This is one step away from "Hey Gruden - We're rubber and you're glue!"

Davii, do me this solid.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Buff is takin’ names up in this piece.

[Jsteve01]

Grumpy much

Don’t talk to my friend like that.

The new personna is very interesting. Thanks for commenting. If i hurt Buffs feelings then i sincerely apologize.

[Jsteve01]

Grumpy much

We are the superior fan base. We shouldn't rely on the joke structure of a 7 year old.

This is one step away from "Hey Gruden - We're rubber and you're glue!"

Davii, do me this solid.

Title may not have been worded well but ground control makes some valid points. Who is this freaking receiver in Boulder Buff? He and Montez look Kordell and Westbrook wow

[Cugel]

Black hole this embarrassing thread... The structure of the thread title just screams "We are mouth breathers!"

Above gloating over an AFC rivals' downfall is entirely one of the best parts of being a fan. It's a constitutional right to gloat, I think one of the middle ones in the bill of rights, somewhere around 6th or 7th amendment or something.

And I reserve the right to taunt like a child because I follow a very silly sport. It has no cosmic significance at all, but it's fun to watch very large men trying to move a strangely shaped leather ball up and down a field.

And so, when Jon Gruden fails so spectacularly that rival GMs in the division publicly taunt him on Twitter, that's a fun day.

[BeefStew25]

The football is a funny shape isn’t it.

[Cugel]

The football is a funny shape isn’t it.

Not just the football is funny. What about this isn't very, very silly looking?:

13017

[TXBRONC]

We are the superior fan base. We shouldn't rely on the joke structure of a 7 year old.

This is one step away from "Hey Gruden - We're rubber and you're glue!"

Davii, do me this solid.

I haven't found anything that I agree with go on, but he's not the subject. Rather than grandstanding report it.

[Ground Control]

'xactly.

[Ground Control]

Black hole this embarrassing thread... The structure of the thread title just screams "We are mouth breathers!"

I'm simply the messenger...and stater of the obvious. And also thankful. Can't I show my extreme gratitude to Gruden? He's fantastic and I just want to show it.

Give him props for calling all lightning tosses in the game though. Not the best recipe for success but he almost got there with this limited offensive view and it did limit sacks. Again, he's actually a good coach. My point is that he's horrible with personnel and he f'ed Raiders fans, unless you're counting future Vegas Raiders fans.

Plus, raaarrrrgghgh. Go Broncos!