Comparing our ’15 & ’18 Ds

[FanInAZ]

Some, myself included, have speculated in the “Why Case Keenum May Turn Out To Be The Steal Of The Century......” thread that Keenum may be adequate enough to win the SB if our :defense: is as good as it was in ’15. Between Manning’s nagging injury and Oz’s inability to preform up to the expectations we had for him when we drafted him, our QB play that year (until Manning sat long enough to heal up) was probably 3rd tier at best. After his extended rest, Manning was probably no more than 2nd tier.

The question of whether Keenum is at least a 2nd tier QB is being debated in the other thread. The question for this thread is whether our ’18 :defense: is as good as our ’15. As for me, I wouldn’t consider giving my initial verdict until the end of September. That verdict could change significantly over the season due to injuries, trades, late bloomers stepping up, etc. However, there are plenty of other that will be ready to render their verdicts a lot sooner than me.

[underrated29]

No. The '15 defense was an all time historic defense. We do not have the NFZ anymore. We may have upgraded at DL but we are down at CB and LB and DC if you really want to go there.


Now, I do expect our defense to be top 5. Maybe top 3. It will be very good. And it should be good enough to win us a fair few games. Depending upon what we see from Case and the O it might be enough of a swing to overcome the loss on defense.

So the moral of the story in relation to what you are asking. It could work out. It could. If I had to guess without seeing anything, Id say our best year with plummer is about the highest we can expect this year if Case plays lights out. We need a better 3rd CB, we need another LB, to come closer to replicating the 15 Crush.

[Shazam!]

I will put no expectation on anything this season until i see that OLine working. If Keenum is getting mauled out there like we saw the past two years its going to be another bad year.

[Hawgdriver]

No. The '15 defense was an all time historic defense. We do not have the NFZ anymore. We may have upgraded at DL but we are down at CB and LB and DC if you really want to go there.


Now, I do expect our defense to be top 5. Maybe top 3. It will be very good. And it should be good enough to win us a fair few games. Depending upon what we see from Case and the O it might be enough of a swing to overcome the loss on defense.

So the moral of the story in relation to what you are asking. It could work out. It could. If I had to guess without seeing anything, Id say our best year with plummer is about the highest we can expect this year if Case plays lights out. We need a better 3rd CB, we need another LB, to come closer to replicating the 15 Crush.

There is a possibility that this defense is another all timer, but it all depends on Chubb and Ray...and, of course, injuries---knock knock.

[chanesaw]

I don't think our defense can be as good as it was in 15. Position by position there wasn't a single weak spot, even the reserves were great. However they can look nearly as good if the offense gives them some help.

One position that seems we can't get right is ILB. When we had Trev and Marsh we had two do everything backers. Trev was the more athletic playmaker, and Marsh was a good athlete for his position. I thought they should have kept Trev over Marsh and thought it was a minor mistake at the time. Now it seems to have been a bigger mistake than I thought. Marsh just doesn't have Trev's speed and playmaking ability. It probably would have been easier to find a replacement for Marsh. This year Marsh is down to 225, so hopefully he can play faster, plus we have Cravens. Even with that we will feel the absence of Talib, so 15 levels of greatness might be a bit too much to ask for. However, we can still get a Super Bowl win if the offense can give the defense some much needed help.

[Jsteve01]

I don't think our defense can be as good as it was in 15. Position by position there wasn't a single weak spot, even the reserves were great. However they can look nearly as good if the offense gives them some help.

One position that seems we can't get right is ILB. When we had Trev and Marsh we had two do everything backers. Trev was the more athletic playmaker, and Marsh was a good athlete for his position. I thought they should have kept Trev over Marsh and thought it was a minor mistake at the time. Now it seems to have been a bigger mistake than I thought. Marsh just doesn't have Trev's speed and playmaking ability. It probably would have been easier to find a replacement for Marsh. This year Marsh is down to 225, so hopefully he can play faster, plus we have Cravens. Even with that we will feel the absence of Talib, so 15 levels of greatness might be a bit too much to ask for. However, we can still get a Super Bowl win if the offense can give the defense some much needed help.

Trev has chronic injury issues. Marshall played through injury last year. Jewell although not as athletic has ridiculous instincts and is underrated in the pass game. Corner is definitely in flux. You dont just replace what Talib brings in the pass game and his big play ability. I do however like the potential of our young corners. I also like Simmons/Cravens better than Ward who was a huuuuge liability in the pass gsme. The real diff for me is no Wade.

[FanInAZ]

The real diff for me is no Wade.

How many current DCs are his equal? Not many.

[TXBRONC]

It's way to early to say if the 2018 defense will be at the level of the 2015 defense. That was a historically great defense it's hard replicate. If this year's defense is in the top five Denver will have shot at the playoffs.

[BeefStew25]

Who’s our ******* going to be this year? I’m worried we don’t have one.

[Hawgdriver]

Who’s our ******* going to be this year? I’m worried we don’t have one.

Either Wolfe, Marshall, or Stewart. My money would be on Marshall.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don't think our defense can be as good as it was in 15. Position by position there wasn't a single weak spot, even the reserves were great. However they can look nearly as good if the offense gives them some help.

One position that seems we can't get right is ILB. When we had Trev and Marsh we had two do everything backers. Trev was the more athletic playmaker, and Marsh was a good athlete for his position. I thought they should have kept Trev over Marsh and thought it was a minor mistake at the time. Now it seems to have been a bigger mistake than I thought. Marsh just doesn't have Trev's speed and playmaking ability. It probably would have been easier to find a replacement for Marsh. This year Marsh is down to 225, so hopefully he can play faster, plus we have Cravens. Even with that we will feel the absence of Talib, so 15 levels of greatness might be a bit too much to ask for. However, we can still get a Super Bowl win if the offense can give the defense some much needed help.

Trevaithan spent much of last year on IR. He was allowed to walk because of concerns over a degenerative knee. Other than that there’s not much to disagree with in this post.

[TXBRONC]

Trevaithan spent much of last year on IR. He was allowed to walk because of concerns over a degenerative knee. Other than that there’s not much to disagree with in this post.

I thought it was money issue with Trevathan.

[Jsteve01]

Trevaithan spent much of last year on IR. He was allowed to walk because of concerns over a degenerative knee. Other than that there’s not much to disagree with in this post.

I thought it was money issue with Trevathan.

Well it was a little bit of both. You can't show out money to a guy who said chronic knee injuries and look what happened in Chicago the past 2 years

[BeefStew25]

Either Wolfe, Marshall, or Stewart. My money would be on Marshall.

I don’t like any of those answers.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I thought it was money issue with Trevathan.

Exactly, you don’t give $50 million to a guy with a degenerative knee, not when you’ve got Chris Harris, Derek Wolfe, Malik Jackson, and DT coming up for new contracts. Teams with talent deficits like the Bears make those dumb moves.

[Canmore]

There is a possibility that this defense is another all timer, but it all depends on Chubb and Ray...and, of course, injuries---knock knock.

Assuming Chubb and Ray play as advertised, it is Roby who has to be the man. We do need a better third corner.

[Ziggy]

how many current dcs are his equal? Not any.

fify

[Buff]

There is a possibility that this defense is another all timer, but it all depends on Chubb and Ray...and, of course, injuries---knock knock.

Who's there?

[slim]

Who's there?

Joe Woods.

[slim]

Joe's Wood?

[BeefStew25]

Remember Joe Mays? Loved that effing dude.

[Hawgdriver]

Who's there?

The chick from Trav's photojournalistic artwork.

[NightTerror218]

This defense could put up number close to 2015 but defense will not be as good. Only reason I say that is because our offense should be better and keep other offenses off the field more. But the thing about 2015 was the huge number of sacks because we excelled at 1st and 2nd down a left a lot Of 3rd and longs. But we were stacked on depth chart which we are much younger now.

[Cugel]

It has never happened in NFL history that one of the all-time great defenses repeated as SB champions.

The '86 Bears one year after their SB win still had a roster full of Hall of Fame and All-Pros like Dan Hampton, Mike Singletary, Richard Dent, Wilbur Marshall, William "the Refrigerator" Perry and one of the all-time great RBs in Walter Peyton.

They got eliminated in the divisional round of the playoffs by the Redskins. Didn't even win a playoff game. That defense was better statistically than the Broncos 2015. But, they lost Buddy Ryan their DC, and it was just never the same.

The same thing happened to the 2001 Ravens and the 2003 Bucs too. Neither ever got back to the SB.

The Broncos lost key defenders immediately, like Malik Jackson, but key was losing Peyton. Manning held that team accountable. The entire team, not just the offense. As long as he was around all the players played at a higher level because Peyton did.

It's hard to leave the facility early when you see Peyton still there and working. When he was gone the leadership vacuum never was filled.

I think even if you took a time capsule and put the exact same defensive players from 2015 on the field this year it would never turn out exactly the same. Remember all the insane lucky bounces they got? The fumble in KC when Jamaal Charles was about 2" off the ground as regulation was about to expire? About 1 split second and he would have been down and the Chiefs would have gone to overtime.

The whole year was like that. All the bounces seemed to go their way like the game in Cleveland when Peyton threw a pick in overtime that gave the Browns possession on the Denver 40. Game over - except the defense managed to push them back out of FG range. The Browns had to punt and Denver came back to win.

Or the fact that the Patriots inexplicably dropped late season games - forcing the AFC Championship to happen in Denver rather than in NE where they would inevitably have won. Some years all the breaks just go your way but such lightning never strikes twice in the same place.