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dogfish
04-03-2018, 12:03 PM
obviously, i don't mean something like taking a punter-- we're not going to do that. . . but out of the moves that might actually happen, which one would bum you out the most? discuss. . .

slim
04-03-2018, 12:06 PM
Josh Rosen

chazoe60
04-03-2018, 12:08 PM
Ive brought it up a ton but drafting a CB will piss me off. To dump Talib then turn around and spend the #5 pick on a CB will really annoy me.

I'm kind of to the point that any defensive player will basically bore and slightly annoy me. Our offense is so ******* bad that we have to start spending real asserts on fixing it, not just signing middling FAs and late round picks.

Davii
04-03-2018, 12:21 PM
obviously, i don't mean something like taking a punter-- we're not going to do that. . . but out of the moves that might actually happen, which one would bum you out the most? discuss. . .

Regardless of position or player, drafting someone that doesn't pan out as worthy of that pick would bum me out. Von was our last #5 pick. I'm not saying they better be as good as Von, that's a lot to ask, but they better have a very significant impact on the team.

MOtorboat
04-03-2018, 12:24 PM
Are you trolling me, Dog?

dogfish
04-03-2018, 12:28 PM
Are you trolling me, Dog?

no, but i will go ahead and mark you down for baker MOfield. . . :lol::lol:

MOtorboat
04-03-2018, 12:29 PM
no, but i will go ahead and mark you down for baker MOfield. . . :lol::lol:

Who is the top punter on the board?

slim
04-03-2018, 12:42 PM
Who is the top punter on the board?

Baker MOfield.

He can do it all!

MOtorboat
04-03-2018, 12:45 PM
Baker MOfield.

He can do it all!

Can he cover a tight end?

dogfish
04-03-2018, 12:48 PM
Can he cover a tight end?

not if they're faster than a police officer. . .

MOtorboat
04-03-2018, 01:02 PM
not if they're faster than a police officer. . .

So, we can't move him to safety, then...

Hawgdriver
04-03-2018, 01:05 PM
Calvin Ridley.

underrated29
04-03-2018, 01:14 PM
Josh Allen
Any WR
Any TE

dogfish
04-03-2018, 01:15 PM
Calvin Ridley.

you know that's the truth!

Valar Morghulis
04-03-2018, 01:15 PM
VJ with the number five pick selects Barry Sanders junior and later announced he thought he was drafting Barry Allen because he was hoping to inject some pace into the run game

Buff
04-03-2018, 01:28 PM
I think the real worst case scenario involves us trading back and then missing out on our targeted guys... We are in a prime position to get a potential pro bowler and shouldn't get too cute.

Assuming we stay at #5 - the only truly awful scenario in my mind would be drafting Baker Mayfield, an undersized project who will need time to adjust to reading NFL defenses and probably won't help the team in 2018-2019.

My preference is Nelson or Barkley - followed by the QBs and Chubb.

BroncoWave
04-03-2018, 01:36 PM
Josh Allen. By far IMO.

dogfish
04-03-2018, 01:37 PM
I think the real worst case scenario involves us trading back and then missing out on our targeted guys... We are in a prime position to get a potential pro bowler and shouldn't get too cute.

Assuming we stay at #5 - the only truly awful scenario in my mind would be drafting Baker Mayfield, an undersized project who will need time to adjust to reading NFL defenses and probably won't help the team in 2018-2019.

My preference is Nelson or Barkley - followed by the QBs and Chubb.

would you be down for a trade back to the mid-teens if the compensation package included a 1st next year, or do you think it's of paramount importance to try to land a blue chip talent while we're at #5?

Buff
04-03-2018, 01:53 PM
would you be down for a trade back to the mid-teens if the compensation package included a 1st next year, or do you think it's of paramount importance to try to land a blue chip talent while we're at #5?

The only way I'm in favor of that is if someone like Buffalo or Miami gets desperate to acquire a QB and is willing to pay a massive king's ransom of picks, including a first rounder. But even then I'm wary as difficult as it is to acquire a Top 5 pick.

BroncoJoe
04-03-2018, 01:55 PM
Not getting our pick in before the clock expires.

dogfish
04-03-2018, 02:26 PM
Not getting our pick in before the clock expires.

ya know, it actually worked out okay for the vikes when they got kevin williams. . . maybe we should consider it. . .

Nomad
04-03-2018, 02:31 PM
Trade up from 5 and reach for one of these QBs. I'm not a fan of any of them at 5 either.

Freyaka
04-03-2018, 02:39 PM
Allen at #5....

Valar Morghulis
04-03-2018, 02:53 PM
Allen at #5....

Barry Allen

dogfish
04-03-2018, 02:59 PM
The only way I'm in favor of that is if someone like Buffalo or Miami gets desperate to acquire a QB and is willing to pay a massive king's ransom of picks, including a first rounder. But even then I'm wary as difficult as it is to acquire a Top 5 pick.

to me, this is where it gets really interesting. . . if we're moving back, we obviously aren't in on one of the top QBs ourselves. . . are we better off trying to find an all-pro pass rusher, lineman, RB or DB-- or going into next year with an extra first in hand, in case the keenum experiment isn't successful, and we want to draft a QBOTF? i think you can construct a legit argument for either approach. . . i guess it comes down to a quality vs. quantity debate-- which is an interesting one, given the condition of our roster. . . if a team like AZ is in quiet desperation mode, and offers their one and two, plus next year's one, at the very least i think you'd have to give it serious consideration. . .

Buff
04-03-2018, 03:08 PM
to me, this is where it gets really interesting. . . if we're moving back, we obviously aren't in on one of the top QBs ourselves. . . are we better off trying to find an all-pro pass rusher, lineman, RB or DB-- or going into next year with an extra first in hand, in case the keenum experiment isn't successful, and we want to draft a QBOTF? i think you can construct a legit argument for either approach. . . i guess it comes down to a quality vs. quantity debate-- which is an interesting one, given the condition of our roster. . . if a team like AZ is in quite desperation mode, and offers their one and two, plus next year's one, at the very least i think you'd have to give it serious consideration. . .

If we did trade back, I like trading with Buffalo or Miami (especially Miami) because I'd anticipate them picking in the top half of the draft next year. Arizona very well may be as well, but they still have David Johnson and Larry Fitz so probably won't be a dumpster fire - plus I like 11 and 12 better than 15.

But I'd rather just stay at 5.

MOtorboat
04-03-2018, 03:12 PM
What is Miami trading up for?

Buff
04-03-2018, 03:14 PM
What is Miami trading up for?

Tannehill's replacement, obv.

dogfish
04-03-2018, 03:16 PM
What is Miami trading up for?

the sheer joy of it?

MOtorboat
04-03-2018, 03:18 PM
the sheer joy of it?

That's the only reason I can figure out.

slim
04-03-2018, 03:23 PM
That's the only reason I can figure out.

How the hell do you know they won't trade up?

MOtorboat
04-03-2018, 03:25 PM
How the hell do you know they won't trade up?

I don't really see a viable reason for them to.

SmilinAssasSin27
04-03-2018, 04:36 PM
The only realistic option that I would abhor is a move up by using future #1.

I'm also still not sold on Chubb in a 3-4. But I wouldn't break the TV if we took him.

Poet
04-03-2018, 06:39 PM
It'll be okay.

Simple Jaded
04-03-2018, 08:32 PM
There are few, if any, ways to **** this up but I have absolute faith in their ability to find a way.

Trade up to #2 and draft McGlinchey, something like that.

Elevation inc
04-04-2018, 03:03 AM
I would be pissed if we try and get cute and move up from 5 or take Allen. I personally right now would like to trade back. I'm praying we can trade Lynch and Our first rd pick to Buffalo for there number 1's and a 3rd rd pick lol. if that happens I jump for joy just at Paxton being dealt lol. Then I would take a playmaker at 12 and Lamar Jackson at 22 :shocked::eek::eek:

HORSEPOWER 56
04-04-2018, 04:28 AM
There are few, if any, ways to **** this up but I have absolute faith in their ability to find a way.

Trade up to #2 and draft McGlinchey, something like that.

This. I’m most worried about them trying to get cute and either overdrafting someone or trading back and missing out on an impact player for lesser players who bust.

Cugel
04-04-2018, 11:39 AM
Ive brought it up a ton but drafting a CB will piss me off. To dump Talib then turn around and spend the #5 pick on a CB will really annoy me.

I'm kind of to the point that any defensive player will basically bore and slightly annoy me. Our offense is so ******* bad that we have to start spending real asserts on fixing it, not just signing middling FAs and late round picks.

Joel Klatt has the Broncos taking Ohio State CB Denzel Ward at #5. Personally, I might just soil my pants if that happens. Why get rid of Talib only to take another CB at #5?

They need generational talent on offense, and that means Nelson or Barkley. If they go defense, then take Chubb.

Cugel
04-04-2018, 11:41 AM
This. I’m most worried about them trying to get cute and either overdrafting someone or trading back and missing out on an impact player for lesser players who bust.

The only way their screw it up at #5 is to reach on a QB who turns out to be the next . . . . Jake Locker.

arapaho2
04-04-2018, 12:24 PM
I would be pissed if we try and get cute and move up from 5 or take Allen. I personally right now would like to trade back. I'm praying we can trade Lynch and Our first rd pick to Buffalo for there number 1's and a 3rd rd pick lol. if that happens I jump for joy just at Paxton being dealt lol. Then I would take a playmaker at 12 and Lamar Jackson at 22 :shocked::eek::eek:

so you would dump Paxton for another project who also wont see the field for years...makes sense in zero ways

LJ 2017....254 com...434 att.....59.1%....27 tds...10 ints

PL 2015.....296 com...443atts...66.8%...28tds...4 ints

Freyaka
04-04-2018, 12:50 PM
so you would dump Paxton for another project who also wont see the field for years...makes sense in zero ways

LJ 2017....254 com...434 att.....59.1%....27 tds...10 ints

PL 2015.....296 com...443atts...66.8%...28tds...4 ints

I wouldn't touch jackson with a 10 foot pole...I would dump Paxton as well...

slim
04-04-2018, 01:17 PM
I don't really see a viable reason for them to.

Yeah, like you have any idea what their FO is thinking.

MOtorboat
04-04-2018, 06:19 PM
Yeah, like you have any idea what their FO is thinking.

Welp, shut down the message board. Slim says there's no reason to talk about anything.

Tned
04-04-2018, 06:41 PM
Calvin Ridley.

Probably not at 5, but I agree it would be. I would also have an issue with trading back to middle of the first and taking Ridley.

Poet
04-04-2018, 07:27 PM
My worst case scenario is the guard being drafted. The hounds will be unleashed on me, even though it's a questionable move.

Cugel
04-04-2018, 10:21 PM
Barry Allen

Well, he's so fast nobody could stop him, so he'd score on every play so they'd have to ban him in the interest of the sport.

Elevation inc
04-05-2018, 01:49 AM
so you would dump Paxton for another project who also wont see the field for years...makes sense in zero ways

LJ 2017....254 com...434 att.....59.1%....27 tds...10 ints

PL 2015.....296 com...443atts...66.8%...28tds...4 ints

LOL Jackson has elite skills like DeShaun Watson, yes I would take that chance if I had 2 first rd picks.

WARHORSE
04-05-2018, 07:22 AM
Worse case scenario......we take Nelson...



or trade it for Brandon Cooks and Gronk in a menage a trois.

Tned
04-05-2018, 07:57 AM
Not getting our pick in before the clock expires.

Man, talk about finding a sliver of a dark cloud in a silver lined sky...

TXBRONC
04-05-2018, 07:58 AM
Joel Klatt has the Broncos taking Ohio State CB Denzel Ward at #5. Personally, I might just soil my pants if that happens. Why get rid of Talib only to take another CB at #5?

They need generational talent on offense, and that means Nelson or Barkley. If they go defense, then take Chubb.

They do that because he's younger and cost less money and in this day age it's best to have three top flight corners. Having said that, I personally would take Nelson or Chubb. Barkley no so much because the talent pool is deep enough at running back to find some later on who could do just as good of job without using a first round pick.

Buff
04-05-2018, 10:55 AM
Joel Klatt has the Broncos taking Ohio State CB Denzel Ward at #5. Personally, I might just soil my pants if that happens. Why get rid of Talib only to take another CB at #5?

They need generational talent on offense, and that means Nelson or Barkley. If they go defense, then take Chubb.

The later rounds are where you take guys who have some sort of limitation in their game. Ward is undersized. You simply can't use the #5 pick on a 5'11" DB. It's that simple.

MOtorboat
04-05-2018, 11:10 AM
The later rounds are where you take guys who have some sort of limitation in their game. Ward is undersized. You simply can't use the #5 pick on a 5'11" DB. It's that simple.

Like, say, a short quarterback with questionable mechanics coming from a shotgun air-raid offense that created inflated stats?

CoachChaz
04-05-2018, 11:34 AM
Joel Klatt has the Broncos taking Ohio State CB Denzel Ward at #5. Personally, I might just soil my pants if that happens. Why get rid of Talib only to take another CB at #5?

They need generational talent on offense, and that means Nelson or Barkley. If they go defense, then take Chubb.


They do that because he's younger and cost less money and in this day age it's best to have three top flight corners. Having said that, I personally would take Nelson or Chubb. Barkley no so much because the talent pool is deep enough at running back to find some later on who could do just as good of job without using a first round pick.

They also do it because Roby is a free agent after this season and with the current market trend...we might not be able to afford him.

underrated29
04-05-2018, 11:57 AM
The later rounds are where you take guys who have some sort of limitation in their game. Ward is undersized. You simply can't use the #5 pick on a 5'11" DB. It's that simple.

Jason Verett and Chris Harris would like to speak with you.

dogfish
04-05-2018, 12:06 PM
The later rounds are where you take guys who have some sort of limitation in their game. Ward is undersized. You simply can't use the #5 pick on a 5'11" DB. It's that simple.

he's the same height as bradley roby and darrelle revis, and an inch shorter than marshon lattimore and marcus peters. . . he's not the midget you keep making him out to be. . . most of the top corners in the league are around 6'. . .

Buff
04-05-2018, 01:12 PM
he's the same height as bradley roby and darrelle revis, and an inch shorter than marshon lattimore and marcus peters. . . he's not the midget you keep making him out to be. . . most of the top corners in the league are around 6'. . .

An inch or two makes a ton of difference as a DB. 6'1 plays differently than 5'11". This is exactly the minutia that you should labor over at the very top of the draft because there may be a guy at another position who checks all of the boxes instead of most of the boxes. Hard pass on anyone who doesn't have prototypical size at #5.

TXBRONC
04-05-2018, 01:20 PM
The later rounds are where you take guys who have some sort of limitation in their game. Ward is undersized. You simply can't use the #5 pick on a 5'11" DB. It's that simple.

Ok, Roby is 5'11" which is considered good height for a corner. So no he's not undersized. Marcus Peter stands 6'0" and you're that one inch makes him to short to be a top five pick? I don't think so.

TXBRONC
04-05-2018, 01:28 PM
An inch or two makes a ton of difference as a DB. 6'1 plays differently than 5'11". This is exactly the minutia that you should labor over at the very top of the draft because there may be a guy at another position who checks all of the boxes instead of most of the boxes. Hard pass on anyone who doesn't have prototypical size at #5.

No doesn't. Darrelle Revis was arguably the best corner in the League. His reputation was built on being the best one on one cover corner in the League. Apparently you're not wise the minutia of game as you might think. 5'11" is in the prototypical height range.

Here is what little reach will do for you Buff:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/2pr9qg/what_are_the_prototypical_buildsheightweight_for/

CB: 5'11''-6'3'' 190-205 (Richard Sherman 6'3'' 200)

Buff
04-05-2018, 01:33 PM
No doesn't. Darrelle Revis was arguably the best corner in the League. His reputation was built on being the best one on one cover corner in the League. Apparently you're not wise the minutia of game as you might think. 5'11" is in the prototypical height range.

Everyone likes to point to the single outlier as proof of their conclusion. Here are the top paid DBs in the league in order... The list goes on. My point isn't that a 5'11" DB can't be successful - it's that you shouldn't be willing to make any concessions when you're picking that high in the draft and the ability to jam guys at the line, jump for balls in the end zone, etc. matters.

Josh Norman - 6'
Trumaine Johnson - 6'2"
Xavier Rhodes - 6'1"
Patrick Peterson - 6'1"
Desmond Trufant - 6'
AJ Bouye - 6'
Jenkins - 5'10"
Butler - 5'11"
Slay - 6'

TXBRONC
04-05-2018, 01:43 PM
Everyone likes to point to the single outlier as proof of their conclusion. Here are the top paid DBs in the league in order... The list goes on. My point isn't that a 5'11" DB can't be successful - it's that you shouldn't be willing to make any concessions when you're picking that high in the draft and the ability to jam guys at the line, jump for balls in the end zone, etc. matters.

Josh Norman - 6'
Trumaine Johnson - 6'2"
Xavier Rhodes - 6'1"
Patrick Peterson - 6'1"
Desmond Trufant - 6'
AJ Bouye - 6'
Jenkins - 5'10"
Butler - 5'11"
Slay - 6'

Ah no, it's not one outlier. It's look to me like you have backwards, you cherry picked three corners that over 6'0" tall while the rest are between 5'10" and 6'0. I've given you link to sight that tells you what NFL thinks prototypical size is.

dogfish
04-05-2018, 01:48 PM
An inch or two makes a ton of difference as a DB. 6'1 plays differently than 5'11". This is exactly the minutia that you should labor over at the very top of the draft because there may be a guy at another position who checks all of the boxes instead of most of the boxes. Hard pass on anyone who doesn't have prototypical size at #5.

he's an inch shorter than champ bailey, and the same height as revis. . . i think you're over-analyzing. . . he's well within the normal, acceptable range for outside corners. . . maybe towards the lower end of that range, but he's not some midget. . . probably doesn't matter in any case, as i think it's unlikely that we draft him. . .

Hawgdriver
04-05-2018, 01:52 PM
Everyone likes to point to the single outlier as proof of their conclusion. Here are the top paid DBs in the league in order... The list goes on. My point isn't that a 5'11" DB can't be successful - it's that you shouldn't be willing to make any concessions when you're picking that high in the draft and the ability to jam guys at the line, jump for balls in the end zone, etc. matters.

Josh Norman - 6'
Trumaine Johnson - 6'2"
Xavier Rhodes - 6'1"
Patrick Peterson - 6'1"
Desmond Trufant - 6'
AJ Bouye - 6'
Jenkins - 5'10"
Butler - 5'11"
Slay - 6'

You got me curious, so I did a proper check.
# of 2017 NFL CB's 6-0 and below with 6+ AV: 21.
6-0 and above: 18

10+ AV CB's, 2017 and height:
Jalen Ramsey, 14, 6-1
Hayward, 14, 5-11
AJ Bouye, 12, 6'
Slay, 12, 6'
Rhodes, 11, 6-2'

5-11 and below vs. 6-0 and above: 1 v 4

Seasons of 10+ AV, 2000-16, 5-11 and below v 6-0 and above: 62 v. 69
Seasons of 10+ AV, 2000-16, 6-0 and below v 6-1 and above: 91 v. 39

Buff
04-05-2018, 01:58 PM
he's an inch shorter than champ bailey, and the same height as revis. . . i think you're over-analyzing. . . he's well within the normal, acceptable range for outside corners. . . maybe towards the lower end of that range, but he's not some midget. . . probably doesn't matter in any case, as i think it's unlikely that we draft him. . .

I am admittedly over analyzing, but the threshold is not "Can this guy be a decent DB in the league?" Clearly he's well within the average range.

The threshold is - is he the best player at his position relative to every other position available to us? And I think he'd need to have a Revis style skillset to be considered, which he does not. I think we should be in the business of splitting hairs at #5.

Hawgdriver
04-05-2018, 02:00 PM
I am admittedly over analyzing, but the threshold is not "Can this guy be a decent DB in the league?" Clearly he's well within the average range.

The threshold is - is he the best player at his position relative to every other position available to us? And I think he'd need to have a Revis style skillset to be considered, which he does not. I think we should be in the business of splitting hairs at #5.

I think he's undersized, a slight risk at 5. But he could be great. I'm fine with whatever pick as long as it works out. If Calvin Ridley is Jerry Rice 2.0 go for it.

Freyaka
04-05-2018, 02:01 PM
Ah no, it's not one outlier. It's look to me like you have backwards, you cherry picked three corners that over 6'0" tall while the rest are between 5'10" and 6'0. I've given you link to sight that tells you what NFL thinks prototypical size is.

Let us not forget that Champ was only 6'0.

Freyaka
04-05-2018, 02:01 PM
he's an inch shorter than champ bailey, and the same height as revis. . . i think you're over-analyzing. . . he's well within the normal, acceptable range for outside corners. . . maybe towards the lower end of that range, but he's not some midget. . . probably doesn't matter in any case, as i think it's unlikely that we draft him. . .

Fine, dog beat me to it and I missed it, the point still stands...

Buff
04-05-2018, 02:03 PM
You guys can have your midget DB and your midget QB from Oklahoma - I'm not interested.

dogfish
04-05-2018, 02:06 PM
You guys can have your midget DB and your midget QB from Oklahoma - I'm not interested.

well, the giraffe QB thing hasn't worked out in the slightest, so that's kind of where we're at. . .

TXBRONC
04-05-2018, 02:08 PM
Let us not forget that Champ was only 6'0.

In an earlier post, I gave a link to an NFL reddit site and it said the prototypical height range is 5'11" to 6'3". If Ward was 5'8" then I would be concerned about him being a candidate in the top ten. That said, I suspect Denver isn't going to take a corner that early.

Freyaka
04-05-2018, 02:15 PM
In an earlier post, I gave a link to an NFL reddit site and it said the prototypical height range is 5'11" to 6'3". If Ward was 5'8" then I would be concerned and he would be candidate to be in the top ten. That said, I suspect Denver isn't going to take a corner that early.

I don't think we will either. I'm assuming it'll be Barkley, Chubb or Nelson. I'm fine with either of the first two, I'll make my peace with the third if it happens, but I am not a fan of it.

Hawgdriver
04-05-2018, 02:19 PM
2010-2017, CB's that earned 1 pro-bowl, below 6': 18
2010-2017, CB's earned 1 pro-bowl, at or above 6': 24

Below-5 AV seasons, midget CBs, 2010-2017:774
Below-5 AV seasons, stilt-walker CBs, 2010-2017: 582

The median height for NFL level CBs is 5-11 it seems, but the better CBs tend to be 6-0 and above. A higher proportion of them are more successful.

I'm with Buff on this one--his height is a minus that must be justified by otherwise exceptional ability or talent. I hear a lot of Lattimore comparisons, and I'd be fine with the pick if he's all that.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-05-2018, 10:19 PM
Let us not forget that Champ was only 6'0.

Champ also had 4.2 speed wirh a 40 inch vertical

TXBRONC
04-06-2018, 08:12 AM
Champ also had 4.2 speed wirh a 40 inch vertical


Ward ran a 4.35 (officially) and 4.32 (unofficially) in the 40 and had 39 vertical. He's no slouch.

Champ was special, and had a Hall of Fame worthy career. At any rate, if Denver were to take Ward, imo it wouldn't be bad pick. I don't see it happening but like everyone else I can only guess.

Freyaka
04-06-2018, 08:12 AM
Champ also had 4.2 speed wirh a 40 inch vertical

Not that I'm advocating for Ward, because he's not who I would want, but 4.3 and 39 inches isn't VASTLY different... It's still in the same ballpark and Ward performed at the combine with a tweaked ankle.

TXBRONC
04-06-2018, 08:42 AM
I don't think we will either. I'm assuming it'll be Barkley, Chubb or Nelson. I'm fine with either of the first two, I'll make my peace with the third if it happens, but I am not a fan of it.

It wouldn't bother me at all if Denver picked Nelson because he's that good. My concern with Chubb is can he fit in 3-4 defense? I still wouldn't be upset if Chubb is the pick, because in this day age it's good to have a fleet of pass rushers.

CoachChaz
04-06-2018, 09:01 AM
It wouldn't bother me at all if Denver picked Nelson because he's that good. My concern with Chubb is can he fit in 3-4 defense? I still wouldn't be upset if Chubb is the pick, because in this day age it's good to have a fleet of pass rushers.

The other part to keep in mind is that we do not employ a outside LB coach. SO, if we did select Chubb, he'd either be working with Bill Kollar...who wouldn't offer much help as it pertained to pass coverage or playing upright. Or he'd be working with Reggie Herring...who hasn't exactly had much success developing the inside guys. SO, I'd be a little concerned about exactly who and exactly how we'd transition him into a 3-4 edge rusher. There would certainly be some growing pains. I like Chubb and I think he'll be great. The other bonus with him is his locker room presence and leadership. Definitely wouldn't be a bad pick.

That being said...just draft the guarantee and make Nelson the pick.

Freyaka
04-06-2018, 09:03 AM
It wouldn't bother me at all if Denver picked Nelson because he's that good. My concern with Chubb is can he fit in 3-4 defense? I still wouldn't be upset if Chubb is the pick, because in this day age it's good to have a fleet of pass rushers.

It wouldn't be the first time a 4-3 DE made the transition to 3-4 OLB. I don't think he'll do well if we try and keep him as a DE, he doesn't have the bulk to be effective as a DE against the run, he'd need to put on about 20-30 pounds. Alternatively, he'd actually likely need to drop weight to have the speed he needs at OLB. The problem with transitioning him is we have a lot of talent at edge rusher. He makes us better at edge rusher so I'm fine with the pick if we go that way, but what we are missing isn't pressure around the edge, it's pressure from the d-line.

What we really need is a 3-4 DE that can get that same type of pressure from the line (Like Malik used to) If chubb bulks up a bit, that's possible I guess. We also need a DT that can help collapse the pocket.

The problem currently with our defense is that our edge rushers get there, but the QB just has to step up into the clean pocket and avoid them. In 2015, you had big dudes on the line collapsing the pocket which meant the QB had to try and avoid the pressure up the middle which drove them right into the arms of the edge rusher. We can add as many edge rushers as we want, but if we don't have that pressure up the gut, it's not going to mean a whole lot.

CoachChaz
04-06-2018, 09:07 AM
I'm not saying he can't do it...just saying we dont have a coach that has the experience to help him do it. That being said, I think Cleveland takes him at 4 anyway. Having him and Garrett as bookends for the next 5+ years would go a long way to getting them back to the playoffs.

Freyaka
04-06-2018, 09:11 AM
I'm not saying he can't do it...just saying we dont have a coach that has the experience to help him do it. That being said, I think Cleveland takes him at 4 anyway. Having him and Garrett as bookends for the next 5+ years would go a long way to getting them back to the playoffs.

It wouldn't be ideal by any means. The only reason I'd be ok with it is because he's an extremely talented pass rusher (with the potential to play near Von's level) But I don't think he would pay immediate dividends because of the growing pains of changing positions.

BroncoJoe
04-06-2018, 09:19 AM
Interesting mock draft here:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000925097/article/fiveround-mock-draft-saints-trade-up-for-baker-mayfield

CoachChaz
04-06-2018, 09:24 AM
It wouldn't be ideal by any means. The only reason I'd be ok with it is because he's an extremely talented pass rusher (with the potential to play near Von's level) But I don't think he would pay immediate dividends because of the growing pains of changing positions.

That and the fact that for at least year one...he'd be depth behind Ray and Barrett. I think we need more immediate help to be honest. Before Cravens cam on, I wanted Fitzpatrick or Nelson...now I think I'm 100% on Nelson. But really...any of the top 5 or 6 non QB's would be fine.

CoachChaz
04-06-2018, 09:26 AM
Interesting mock draft here:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000925097/article/fiveround-mock-draft-saints-trade-up-for-baker-mayfield

Just dont know that I have faith in Elway to actually draft as well as this mock. But I'd be thrilled if it happened.

Freyaka
04-06-2018, 09:34 AM
Just dont know that I have faith in Elway to actually draft as well as this mock. But I'd be thrilled if it happened.

We don't make that good of choices in the draft so... I think we'd all be happy with that draft.

Nomad
04-06-2018, 09:42 AM
Interesting mock draft here:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000925097/article/fiveround-mock-draft-saints-trade-up-for-baker-mayfield

Andrew Luck and the Colts would be smart to do so. Let's hope the Broncos can outsmart them;)

TXBRONC
04-06-2018, 09:50 AM
I'm not saying he can't do it...just saying we dont have a coach that has the experience to help him do it. That being said, I think Cleveland takes him at 4 anyway. Having him and Garrett as bookends for the next 5+ years would go a long way to getting them back to the playoffs.

There has been a lot of talk that Cleveland will trade that 4th overall pick but I wouldn't be surprised if they keep it for the reason you just stated. It wouldn't necessarily have to be Chubb, it could Nelson, Barkley or the corner out of Alabama whose name is escaping right now.

Simple Jaded
04-06-2018, 08:10 PM
That and the fact that for at least year one...he'd be depth behind Ray and Barrett. I think we need more immediate help to be honest. Before Cravens cam on, I wanted Fitzpatrick or Nelson...now I think I'm 100% on Nelson. But really...any of the top 5 or 6 non QB's would be fine.

I think getting a 3rd pass rusher (and interior pass rusher) like they had in ‘15 is, by far, their biggest need on defense.

If any highly ranked OLB sits behind Barrett the coaching staff should be fired, Barrett is JAG.

Having said, idk if Chubb is a 3-4 OLB.

NightTerror218
04-06-2018, 09:45 PM
Chubb

DL is not the issue the offense is. Health ray will be difference too

Simple Jaded
04-07-2018, 03:30 AM
Chubb

DL is not the issue the offense is. Health ray will be difference too

Interior pass rush might be the biggest issue on defense, they get next to nothing from DL’s, the offense is always going to be the biggest issue overall.

Cugel
04-07-2018, 10:53 AM
The other part to keep in mind is that we do not employ a outside LB coach. SO, if we did select Chubb, he'd either be working with Bill Kollar...who wouldn't offer much help as it pertained to pass coverage or playing upright. Or he'd be working with Reggie Herring...who hasn't exactly had much success developing the inside guys. SO, I'd be a little concerned about exactly who and exactly how we'd transition him into a 3-4 edge rusher. There would certainly be some growing pains. I like Chubb and I think he'll be great. The other bonus with him is his locker room presence and leadership. Definitely wouldn't be a bad pick.

That being said...just draft the guarantee and make Nelson the pick.

I'd agree with you that if Barkley isn't on the board, then draft Nelson, but I don't think he's a consideration for them. I think they'll draft Chubb, unless some QB they love (Mayfield or Allen) falls to them at #5.

But, the chances of that are remote. The Browns would trade their #4 pick to the Bills or Cardinals or someone if anybody thought that Denver would take Mayfield at #5.

NightTerror218
04-07-2018, 11:26 AM
Interior pass rush might be the biggest issue on defense, they get next to nothing from DL’s, the offense is always going to be the biggest issue overall.

But an enept offense gasses the D by being on field so much. I think the offense had held the defense back long enough that it no longer could keep carrying it

Simple Jaded
04-07-2018, 11:58 AM
But an enept offense gasses the D by being on field so much. I think the offense had held the defense back long enough that it no longer could keep carrying it

But they don’t seem to be overly interested in making any improvements, they haven’t solved anything on offense in years.

This time last it was run defense on that side and they fixed it, this year I think it’s pass rush.

7alpha30
04-10-2018, 08:05 AM
My worst case scenario is easily Baker Mayfield. It doesn't paint a pretty picture when you look a the history of QBs coming from spread offenses. It's also grim when you look at QBs that are only 6' tall. He should have a high completion percentage playing at Oklahoma. The guy plays at a talent rich program and his passing windows are huge. Add to that, Oklahoma has many plays where the QB throws to the WR before he crosses the line of scrimmage. And finall, the guy comes across as a punk...like a big douche. I want to be able to like the players on the team and it's not really possible with him.

7alpha30
04-10-2018, 08:08 AM
From what I've seen, they've shown interest in Dorance Armstrong and Marquis Haynes. It seems like they might have it in mind to add a pass rusher in the 3rd round.

TXBRONC
04-10-2018, 09:39 AM
I'd agree with you that if Barkley isn't on the board, then draft Nelson, but I don't think he's a consideration for them. I think they'll draft Chubb, unless some QB they love (Mayfield or Allen) falls to them at #5.

But, the chances of that are remote. The Browns would trade their #4 pick to the Bills or Cardinals or someone if anybody thought that Denver would take Mayfield at #5.

I don't think the Browns trade the 4th overall pick. They have the opportunity to add a second impact player and the luxury of being on either side of ball. I would not surprised if they take Chubb with that 4th overall pick. Pair him up with Garrett and you have potentially a very intimidating outside pass rush. I haven't seen anything would suggest they would trade that number four pick if Denver likes Mayfield. I don't see any reason for them to even worry about when you have potential both you top two in the same draft.

Freyaka
04-10-2018, 09:51 AM
I don't think the Browns trade the 4th overall pick. They have the opportunity to add a second impact player and the luxury of being on either side of ball. I would not surprised if they take Chubb with that 4th overall pick. Pair him up with Garrett and you have potentially a very intimidating outside pass rush. I haven't seen anything would suggest they would trade that number four pick if Denver likes Mayfield. I don't see any reason for them to even worry about when you have potential both you top two in the same draft.

They have the opportunity to add another 2-3 impact players later in the first round, or grab one where they are. If the price is right, based on their recent history of stockpiling picks, they trade back IMO.

7alpha30
04-10-2018, 09:55 AM
They have the opportunity to add another 2-3 impact players later in the first round, or grab one where they are. If the price is right, based on their recent history of stockpiling picks, they trade back IMO.

I'm not saying you're wrong but this is Dorsey's first time running the draft in Cleveland. It might be completely different now.

BroncoJoe
04-10-2018, 10:26 AM
My worst case scenario is easily Baker Mayfield. It doesn't paint a pretty picture when you look a the history of QBs coming from spread offenses. It's also grim when you look at QBs that are only 6' tall. He should have a high completion percentage playing at Oklahoma. The guy plays at a talent rich program and his passing windows are huge. Add to that, Oklahoma has many plays where the QB throws to the WR before he crosses the line of scrimmage. And finall, the guy comes across as a punk...like a big douche. I want to be able to like the players on the team and it's not really possible with him.

You and MO are going to be BFF's.

Buff
04-10-2018, 10:31 AM
I've come off the ledge on Mayfield a bit... In watching more of him, I like the speed that he plays with and the anticipation that he shows. I still worry that you plug him into an NFL offense against NFL caliber defenses and all of a sudden he is just average in every way - but it's hard to simply write off all his college production.

I also think we've seen so many "look like Tarzan play like Jane" guys over the years that we should be weighting their college production a little more heavily.

Finally - it is interesting to me that Darnold was visiting the Giants today but wasn't previously scheduled to do so... That seems to support the theory that the Browns are leaning towards Josh Allen. It's looking more and more like the top 4 picks are Allen, Rosen, Darnold and Barkley.

Poet
04-10-2018, 10:33 AM
Elway...trade up...do it for the Kinger.

CoachChaz
04-10-2018, 10:48 AM
Elway...trade up...do it for the Kinger.

Part of me says the draft capital we'd have to give up to move to #2 is insane...the other part of me realizes that Elway pretty much wastes draft capital on bad picks anyway.

7alpha30
04-10-2018, 10:50 AM
I've come off the ledge on Mayfield a bit... In watching more of him, I like the speed that he plays with and the anticipation that he shows. I still worry that you plug him into an NFL offense against NFL caliber defenses and all of a sudden he is just average in every way - but it's hard to simply write off all his college production.

I also think we've seen so many "look like Tarzan play like Jane" guys over the years that we should be weighting their college production a little more heavily.

Finally - it is interesting to me that Darnold was visiting the Giants today but wasn't previously scheduled to do so... That seems to support the theory that the Browns are leaning towards Josh Allen. It's looking more and more like the top 4 picks are Allen, Rosen, Darnold and Barkley.

It's fascinating to read between the lines with what goes on. Here are a few items to show what I mean:

- The Jets trade all the way up to the third pick. Why the third pick? Why not go all the way or trade up to the second? Maybe they tried but this would indicate that the Giants and Browns are set on taking a QB?


-The Broncos sent everyone from the front office to Baker Mayfields pro day. Soon after, the Jets traded up to #3. Did they Broncos manipulate the Jets into trading up and did the Jets tip their hand?

-While the Giants weren't trade partners with the Jets, they've been making overtures about taking a non QB. If that's really true, then why not trade with the Jets back to #6? In many ways it would be better than trading back to 12 with Buffalo, which is a rumor now. And why is NYG putting it out there that they may take a non-QB? Are they trying to manipulate a team like Denver into trading up to #2?

- There was a rumor that the Browns know the Giants prefer Darnold and the Browns like Allen, so the Browns are wanting to trade back one spot and this might be the reason the owner of the Browns was seen at Darnolds pro day sitting with his parents.

- Who do the Bills like enough to move up to 4 or 2?


Much of this could be nothing but you still wonder.

CoachChaz
04-10-2018, 10:57 AM
It's fascinating to read between the lines with what goes on. Here are a few items to show what I mean:

- The Jets trade all the way up to the third pick. Why the third pick? Why not go all the way and trade up to the second? Maybe they tried but this would indicate that the Giants and Browns are set on taking a QB?


-The Broncos sent everyone from the front office to Baker Mayfields pro day. Soon after, the Jets traded up to #3. Did they Broncos manipulate the Jets into trading up and did the Jets tip their hand?

-While the Giants weren't trade partners with the Jets, they've been making overtures about taking a non QB. If that's really true, then why not trade with the Jets back to #6? In many ways it would be better than trading back to 12 with Buffalo, which is a rumor now. And why is NYG putting it out there that they may take a non-QB? Are they trying to manipulate a team like Denver into trading up to #2?

- There was a rumor that the Browns know the Giants prefer Darnold and the Browns like Allen, so the Browns are wanting to trade back one spot and this might be the reason the owner of the Browns was seen at Darnolds pro day sitting with his parents.

- Who do the Bills like enough to move up to 4 or 2?

Much of this could be nothing but you still wonder.

Maybe the Giants wanted in return more than the Colts did...or what I personally think is they are highly interested in Barkley or Nelson, both of whom could potentially be gone by pick 6.

7alpha30
04-10-2018, 11:32 AM
Maybe the Giants wanted in return more than the Colts did...or what I personally think is they are highly interested in Barkley or Nelson, both of whom could potentially be gone by pick 6.

NYG seems to also be interested in Chubb.

TXBRONC
04-10-2018, 11:49 AM
They have the opportunity to add another 2-3 impact players later in the first round, or grab one where they are. If the price is right, based on their recent history of stockpiling picks, they trade back IMO.

Having the 4th overall does give the opportunity to have two impact players. I understand you said possibly three, and assuming their able to get three impact players from 1st round, well you now have three rookies whose will over same times. I don't think that can be overlooked. As someone else mention it's not the same GM so he may not be inclined to do so.

TXBRONC
04-10-2018, 11:51 AM
Elway...trade up...do it for the Kinger.

This is exactly why he shouldn't. :couch:

underrated29
04-10-2018, 12:09 PM
How about it though. I am getting hype!


Browns take Allen
Giants take Darnold
Jets go Mayfield
Browns go Barkley or Chubb or whomever...(I do not see them trading back with anyone- its too far down the list)
Rosen lands in our Laps! So so sexy sweet!


That said, I watched the Mayfield accuracy and personality things. Kid is growing on me. I like him a lot now. Not as much as I do Rosen, but still. Kid is Damn Accurate! and he has the moxy.

dogfish
04-10-2018, 12:50 PM
I've come off the ledge on Mayfield a bit... In watching more of him, I like the speed that he plays with and the anticipation that he shows. I still worry that you plug him into an NFL offense against NFL caliber defenses and all of a sudden he is just average in every way - but it's hard to simply write off all his college production.

I also think we've seen so many "look like Tarzan play like Jane" guys over the years that we should be weighting their college production a little more heavily.

Finally - it is interesting to me that Darnold was visiting the Giants today but wasn't previously scheduled to do so... That seems to support the theory that the Browns are leaning towards Josh Allen. It's looking more and more like the top 4 picks are Allen, Rosen, Darnold and Barkley.


How about it though. I am getting hype!


Browns take Allen
Giants take Darnold
Jets go Mayfield
Browns go Barkley or Chubb or whomever...(I do not see them trading back with anyone- its too far down the list)
Rosen lands in our Laps! So so sexy sweet!


That said, I watched the Mayfield accuracy and personality things. Kid is growing on me. I like him a lot now. Not as much as I do Rosen, but still. Kid is Damn Accurate! and he has the moxy.

plus, if we take MOfield, we get treated to a couple years worth of extra-surly angry midget takes. . . bonus!

MOtorboat
04-10-2018, 01:04 PM
So, we're all in agreement here that Mayfield is the worst possible scenario?

Good. /thread

slim
04-10-2018, 01:08 PM
So, we're all in agreement here that Mayfield is the worst possible scenario?

Good. /thread

No.

MOtorboat
04-10-2018, 01:09 PM
No.

I agree. Drafting him is a bad idea, unless Denver is employing the tanking theory.

Slick
04-10-2018, 01:17 PM
History tells us that only 1 of these QBs will be a true franchise guy (maybe not even 1) . The rest of them are going to be busts or very mediocre. Denver can't afford to bust the #4 pick.

My worst case scenario is Elway picking another QB that isn't any good. I think they should draft the highest rated non-QB on their draft board.

Valar Morghulis
04-10-2018, 01:32 PM
History tells us that only 1 of these QBs will be a true franchise guy (maybe not even 1) . The rest of them are going to be busts or very mediocre. Denver can't afford to bust the #4 pick.

My worst case scenario is Elway picking another QB that isn't any good. I think they should draft the highest rated non-QB on their draft board.

Hey slick great point, but I was wondering can we afford to bust the fifth pick?

Freyaka
04-10-2018, 02:04 PM
Hey slick great point, but I was wondering can we afford to bust the fifth pick?

Can Dave afford to bust slicks balls? The answer is apparently yes.

Valar Morghulis
04-10-2018, 02:07 PM
Lol, I love slick like no other!!!

7alpha30
04-10-2018, 02:37 PM
I was looking at the point value chart. The difference between 5 and 4 is only 100 points. But the difference between 4 and 3 is 400 points. Its 400 points between the top 3 picks. That's a lot.

CoachChaz
04-10-2018, 02:46 PM
I was looking at the point value chart. The difference between 5 and 4 is only 100 points. But the difference between 4 and 3 is 400 points. Its 400 points between the top 3 picks. That's a lot.

I think moving to #2 would undoubtedly cost us #5 and next year's first rounder. Just get Nelson at 5 and have a Pro Bowler for the next 10 years.

7alpha30
04-10-2018, 02:55 PM
I think moving to #2 would undoubtedly cost us #5 and next year's first rounder. Just get Nelson at 5 and have a Pro Bowler for the next 10 years.

If you go by the point value chart, I think it would be more like the #5, 40, and next years first. But the thing of it is, it's not as if Denver as no leverage. Buffalo might be able to offer more in terms of the point value chart, especially this year. But moving from 2 to 12 might be too tough for NYG to swallow. At 5 they could still get Chubb or Nelson. And their GM likes investing in the offensive and defensive lines.

Hawgdriver
04-10-2018, 03:55 PM
The Jimmy Johnson draft value chart (blue) is terrible...I hope Mitch/John don't rely on it...

https://datascopeanalytics.com/blog/nfl-draft-value-chart-controversy/

11982

Red line indicates historical/observed value of the player selected at that position.

dogfish
04-10-2018, 04:13 PM
hawg, make a bell curve out of it. . .

CoachChaz
04-10-2018, 04:20 PM
If you go by the point value chart, I think it would be more like the #5, 40, and next years first. But the thing of it is, it's not as if Denver as no leverage. Buffalo might be able to offer more in terms of the point value chart, especially this year. But moving from 2 to 12 might be too tough for NYG to swallow. At 5 they could still get Chubb or Nelson. And their GM likes investing in the offensive and defensive lines.

Definitely...my point was more that it would start with two # 1's and build from there. Just not the "perfect" talent available in any of these QB's to spend that much. At least not in my opinion. But...as I mentioned in another thread...it's not like Elway has the track record to do good things with the other picks, so maybe it is worth it to him and others.

I would just go with the "sure thing" and build from there.

slim
04-10-2018, 04:36 PM
The Jimmy Johnson draft value chart (blue) is terrible...I hope Mitch/John don't rely on it...

https://datascopeanalytics.com/blog/nfl-draft-value-chart-controversy/

11982

Red line indicates historical/observed value of the player selected at that position.

I bet he had an actuary draw that up.

Hawgdriver
04-10-2018, 06:31 PM
hawg, make a bell curve out of it. . .

Curves are the best.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-10-2018, 08:52 PM
Curves are the best.

I need to analyze my wife’s tonight

Freyaka
04-11-2018, 08:22 AM
I need to analyze my wife’s tonight

Me too.

TXBRONC
04-11-2018, 09:06 AM
So, we're all in agreement here that Mayfield is the worst possible scenario?

Good. /thread

No, I do not agree.

Freyaka
04-11-2018, 09:07 AM
So, we're all in agreement here that Mayfield is the worst possible scenario?

Good. /thread

I think general consensus is that you whiffed on this take. Swing and a miss...

MOtorboat
04-11-2018, 11:52 AM
I think general consensus is that you whiffed on this take. Swing and a miss...

I agree. That pick would be a total swing and miss.

I can't believe everyone is getting along so well!

Valar Morghulis
04-11-2018, 12:41 PM
No, I do not agree.

In your opinion who is the worst but most plausible pick?

underrated29
04-11-2018, 12:48 PM
In your opinion who is the worst but most plausible pick?

Ill answer for him.
Josh Allen but he is not the most plausible.
The most plausible is not a bad pick. No matter what we will be able to get a stud!!! (Allen goes #1 to Cleveland)

slim
04-11-2018, 01:26 PM
Ill answer for him.
Josh Allen but he is not the most plausible.
The most plausible is not a bad pick. No matter what we will be able to get a stud!!! (Allen goes #1 to Cleveland)

Slap yourself and try typing a coherent post.

Freyaka
04-11-2018, 01:52 PM
I agree. That pick would be a total swing and miss.

I can't believe everyone is getting along so well!

MO in this thread...

https://talesfromthewetsuit.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/no-listening.jpg

MOtorboat
04-11-2018, 02:27 PM
MO in this thread...

https://talesfromthewetsuit.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/no-listening.jpg

I'm sacrificing for the good of the community. Y'all will come around eventually.

Freyaka
04-11-2018, 02:38 PM
I'm sacrificing for the good of the community. Y'all will come around eventually.

I agree, we will all come around and be in agreement once Mayfield is hoisting the Lombardi after an MVP campaign.

BroncoJoe
04-11-2018, 02:40 PM
I agree, we will all come around and be in agreement once Mayfield is hoisting the Lombardi after an MVP campaign.

Shot across the bow...

MOtorboat
04-11-2018, 02:41 PM
I agree, we will all come around and be in agreement once Mayfield is hoisting the Lombardi after an MVP campaign.

Oh. You poor thing. I'll be here to hold you when it hurts.

underrated29
04-11-2018, 02:41 PM
I agree, we will all come around and be in agreement once Mayfield is hoisting the Lombardi after an MVP campaign.



He better not, because hes going to the jets

underrated29
04-11-2018, 02:42 PM
Slap yourself and try typing a coherent post.



Why the hostility?
I thought we were friends (lovers)....am I wrong?

slim
04-11-2018, 02:45 PM
Why the hostility?
I thought we were friends (lovers)....am I wrong?

I like you, but I dont like you like you.

Cugel
04-11-2018, 02:45 PM
How about it though. I am getting hype!


Browns take Allen
Giants take Darnold
Jets go Mayfield
Browns go Barkley or Chubb or whomever...(I do not see them trading back with anyone- its too far down the list)
Rosen lands in our Laps! So so sexy sweet!


That said, I watched the Mayfield accuracy and personality things. Kid is growing on me. I like him a lot now. Not as much as I do Rosen, but still. Kid is Damn Accurate! and he has the moxy.

And the Broncos pass on drafting a QB at #5 and take Chubb or Barkley.

Freyaka
04-11-2018, 04:03 PM
He better not, because hes going to the jets

Man, how much draft capital are the Jets giving up this year? Rosen and Mayfield? Are they going to run a two QB system, or are they just assuming that one or both will bust given their history?

underrated29
04-11-2018, 04:20 PM
I like you, but I dont like you like you.

This was my worst case scenario

underrated29
04-11-2018, 04:22 PM
Man, how much draft capital are the Jets giving up this year? Rosen and Mayfield? Are they going to run a two QB system, or are they just assuming that one or both will bust given their history?

HUh?

Theyre going to take Mayfield. Not Rosen. Cleveland will take Allen, if they do, the giants will not let Darnold slide through them. So the jets have Rosen and Mayfield and they are enamored with the baker. That leaves Rosen for us.

dogfish
04-11-2018, 04:53 PM
HUh?

Theyre going to take Mayfield. Not Rosen. Cleveland will take Allen, if they do, the giants will not let Darnold slide through them. So the jets have Rosen and Mayfield and they are enamored with the baker. That leaves Rosen for us.

king will take you on a cruise if this actually happens. . .

underrated29
04-11-2018, 05:11 PM
king will take you on a cruise if this actually happens. . .

A cruise on his mustache? A mustache ride! Who wants a mustache ride??!!



I do. I vant one I vant one!

underrated29
04-11-2018, 05:12 PM
PS- unless buffalo gives us an amazing offer (or the browns go Darnold) itll happen.

TXBRONC
04-11-2018, 05:21 PM
Ill answer for him.
Josh Allen but he is not the most plausible.
The most plausible is not a bad pick. No matter what we will be able to get a stud!!! (Allen goes #1 to Cleveland)

Under, I'm more than capable of answering for myself and no that's not my answer.

TXBRONC
04-11-2018, 05:21 PM
In your opinion who is the worst but most plausible pick?

Barkley would be the pick I'm most hesitant about.

Cugel
04-11-2018, 10:38 PM
HUh?

Theyre going to take Mayfield. Not Rosen. Cleveland will take Allen, if they do, the giants will not let Darnold slide through them. So the jets have Rosen and Mayfield and they are enamored with the baker. That leaves Rosen for us.

I'd say this is right, except that it means they leave Bradley Chubb to us, or Sequon Barkley. Either would be a total stud. It's even possible they could land Chubb, and still have the draft capital to move back into the late 1st round and pick up Will Hernandez, G



"What if the Broncos said 'we're going Bradley Chubb at #5, and then got back into the first round for a Will Hernandez, a G whom everybody thinks is going to be a star in this league?" What say if you get into the 20's and Will Hernandez hasn't been taken off the board yet, and you could bounce up to #22 or something because you know if you can get him there. Bounce up and get that guy?

You want to talk about inside out dominating the draft? Like building up your team by building your lines of scrimmage?

Now all of a sudden you have a Bradley Chubb who is going to be an impact starter for you, day 1, and you have a G who is going to be a starter for you, day 1. How much did you just improve your football team if that is your draft strategy?

Not waiting for Will Hernandez, because based on what he did at the Senior Bowl and just based on his athleticism in general at that position, there's no way he's dropping into the second round. So, you roll up and get him in the first. Package a couple of picks together and do that?

You talk about winning the draft! You suddenly start winning the lines of scrimmage, which you haven't won on offense in years? You win both lines of scrimmage, tell you what. That will take an awful lot of pressure off Case Keenum. How much pressure does that take off your RB situation? And your TE and WR situation? TONS of pressure taken off."

Mark Schlereth on 104.3 the Fan.

Add Chubb and you add another Joey Bosa to a team with Von Miller. Now suddenly the defense starts to resemble the SB 50 winning team, with a dominating and intimidating defense which can generate both edge and middle pressure, because you can move Chubb inside on passing downs and get intense pressure. Schlereth is talking about Chubb being considered a better prospect than last years' #1 pick, Myles Garrett.

And you can get him at #5.

Cugel
04-11-2018, 10:45 PM
Barkley would be the pick I'm most hesitant about.

What if the scouts are right who think that he's the next Edgerrin James, and you could use him like the Panthers use Christian McCaffrey who caught 80 passes his rookie year.

The Broncos haven't had a weapon like that on offense since 2013 when they had Welker and Julius Thomas.

Last year Elway was very interested in drafting Christian McCaffrey, and was even exploring trade possibilities to move up to #12 to get him if he fell that far, but he was gone to Carolina at #8 so that didn't happen.

They are looking for a dynamic play making RB who is a weapon in the passing game like McCaffrey. And Barkley is reportedly that guy. He sure looks the part on film. Dude has a 25 minute highlight film that is seriously legit, one amazing play after another.

Normally, a highlight film is misleading because you ignore the bad plays he may have made. But, that guy is a human highlight reel. He's versatile and that is something the Broncos are very interested in. A player who will keep opposing DCs up at night thinking "how do we stop Barkley from making big plays against us? Because he's a monster in space if he gets free underneath, he can make one of our LBs miss a tackle and he's off to the races."

Sounds good to me. Get Barkley or Chubb and then move back up into the first and get a dominating G like Will Hernandez. Start dominating the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

Simple Jaded
04-11-2018, 11:29 PM
Chubb isn’t considered a better prospect than Myles Garrett, nobody thinks that.

Mostly because he’s not a better prospect than Myles Garrett.

7alpha30
04-11-2018, 11:46 PM
What if the scouts are right who think that he's the next Edgerrin James, and you could use him like the Panthers use Christian McCaffrey who caught 80 passes his rookie year.

The Broncos haven't had a weapon like that on offense since 2013 when they had Welker and Julius Thomas.

Last year Elway was very interested in drafting Christian McCaffrey, and was even exploring trade possibilities to move up to #12 to get him if he fell that far, but he was gone to Carolina at #8 so that didn't happen.

They are looking for a dynamic play making RB who is a weapon in the passing game like McCaffrey. And Barkley is reportedly that guy. He sure looks the part on film. Dude has a 25 minute highlight film that is seriously legit, one amazing play after another.

Normally, a highlight film is misleading because you ignore the bad plays he may have made. But, that guy is a human highlight reel. He's versatile and that is something the Broncos are very interested in. A player who will keep opposing DCs up at night thinking "how do we stop Barkley from making big plays against us? Because he's a monster in space if he gets free underneath, he can make one of our LBs miss a tackle and he's off to the races."

Sounds good to me. Get Barkley or Chubb and then move back up into the first and get a dominating G like Will Hernandez. Start dominating the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

Barkley has it all.

But he has a couple of criticisms. One is that he doesn't run physical enough for his size. This doesn't bother me. He can adapt his game as needed. If he were to be trying to run over people all the time, people would complain about his wear and tear. As it is now, he's more than agile enough to do what he does.

Also you'll see him criticized because he too often tries to make something out of nothing. He's a lot like Barry Sanders.

But one thing worth pointing out, is that Barry Sanders didn't have a lot of runs for losses in college. He ran behind a fullback. Barry's average per carry during his junior year was over 7. It was when he went to Detroit and running out of the run and shoot with no full back that you started seeing more tackles for losses. And it's worth pointing out that Barkley's offensive line in college was never really very good. I was just checking Adrian Petersons average per carry each year at Oklahoma. It was 5.7, 5.0, and 5.4. Playing on a less talented team and behind worse offensive lines, Saquon Barkleys apcs have been 5.9, 5.5, an 5.9. Plus, there are runs where the talent is just so obvious.

People need to remember we're drafting guys with talent. None are finished products even though ithey might be excellent already.

BTW, the player comps most seen with Barkley are Barry Sanders and LaDanian Tomlinson. This is a first that I've seen Edgerrin James.

Cugel
04-12-2018, 10:53 AM
BTW, the player comps most seen with Barkley are Barry Sanders and LaDanian Tomlinson. This is a first that I've seen Edgerrin James.

OK, forget Edgerrin James. Barkley is the next Christian McCaffrey, who caught 80 passes out of the backfield for the Panthers but only rushed for 450 yards.

LT and Sanders were Hall of Fame workhorse backs. Barkley was averaging 18 rushes a game. In consecutive games he had 16, 15, 21, 14, 14, 17, and 16 carries.

He's not a 3 down run between the tackles 25 times a game Terrell Davis kind of back. He's an elite athlete, run or pass Swiss Army knife kind of guy who creates mismatches - just like Christian McCaffrey.

Hence the comparison to Edgerrin James, but James might have rushed more than Barkley will. I doubt Barkley has a 1600 yard rushing season for instance.

That kind of player is invaluable because you need weapons who can't be covered in the red zone. He can still run the ball of course, but supposedly teams will not want to run him 25 times a game between the tackles like he's Ezekiel Elliot.

But if you throw him the ball in space, he can make one guy miss and he's off to the races for 40 yards. Defenses have to deal figure out how they are going to deal with that threat, which means they are putting one of their best cover guys on him, and not planning so much about how they are going to tear your QB's head off and throw it into the South Stands.

7alpha30
04-12-2018, 11:00 AM
OK, forget Edgerrin James. Barkley is the next Christian McCaffrey, who caught 80 passes out of the backfield for the Panthers but only rushed for 450 yards.

LT and Sanders were Hall of Fame workhorse backs. Barkley was averaging 18 rushes a game. In consecutive games he had 16, 15, 21, 14, 14, 17, and 16 carries.

He's not a 3 down run between the tackles 25 times a game Terrell Davis kind of back. He's an elite athlete, run or pass Swiss Army knife kind of guy who creates mismatches - just like Christian McCaffrey.

Hence the comparison to Edgerrin James.

That kind of player is invaluable because you need weapons who can't be covered in the red zone. He can still run the ball of course, but supposedly teams will not want to run him 25 times a game between the tackles like he's Ezekiel Elliot.

But if you throw him the ball in space, he can make one guy miss and he's off to the races for 40 yards. Defenses have to deal figure out how they are going to deal with that threat, which means they are putting one of their best cover guys on him, and not planning so much about how they are going to tear your QB's head off and throw it into the South Stands.

McCaffrey is an even worse player comp. I think he can handle a heavier workload. I think the low carries total saved him wear and tear. If he had racked up a ton of carries, people would be complaining that he has too much wear and tear.

Cugel
04-12-2018, 11:04 AM
McCaffrey is an even worse player comp. I think he can handle a heavier workload. I think the low carries total saved him wear and tear. If he had racked up a ton of carries, people would be complaining that he has too much wear and tear.

McCaffrey's too valuable as a pass receiver and they drafted him too high at #8 pick of the draft to wear him out in 4 or 5 seasons by running him 25 times a game. Of course he can handle a heavier work load, but he's too valuable an investment to do that.

He WOULD have too much wear and tear if they tried to treat him like Ezekiel Elliot. So, they are running him 117 times a season, not 320 times.

Barkley will be used the same. That's the new trend in the NFL. Since teams throw the ball 60%-70% of the time the RB needs to be a pass receiver as much as a pure runner.

TXBRONC
04-12-2018, 11:32 AM
What if the scouts are right who think that he's the next Edgerrin James, and you could use him like the Panthers use Christian McCaffrey who caught 80 passes his rookie year.

The Broncos haven't had a weapon like that on offense since 2013 when they had Welker and Julius Thomas.

Last year Elway was very interested in drafting Christian McCaffrey, and was even exploring trade possibilities to move up to #12 to get him if he fell that far, but he was gone to Carolina at #8 so that didn't happen.

They are looking for a dynamic play making RB who is a weapon in the passing game like McCaffrey. And Barkley is reportedly that guy. He sure looks the part on film. Dude has a 25 minute highlight film that is seriously legit, one amazing play after another.

Normally, a highlight film is misleading because you ignore the bad plays he may have made. But, that guy is a human highlight reel. He's versatile and that is something the Broncos are very interested in. A player who will keep opposing DCs up at night thinking "how do we stop Barkley from making big plays against us? Because he's a monster in space if he gets free underneath, he can make one of our LBs miss a tackle and he's off to the races."

Sounds good to me. Get Barkley or Chubb and then move back up into the first and get a dominating G like Will Hernandez. Start dominating the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

My concern is that looking at the stats and schedules it looks like for the most part he's would play about half and then sit because his was rolling all over the opponent. The games where he had 20 or a little more Penn State generally lost and his ypc was dramatically different in the losses. We could pick up Nick Chubb or his running mate Sony Michal and there isn't that big of a difference. Barkley had lot catches verse other two but that was probably had to do with design of the respective offenses. Running backs usually don't have long careers.

Hawgdriver
04-12-2018, 01:35 PM
OK, forget Edgerrin James. Barkley is the next Christian McCaffrey, who caught 80 passes out of the backfield for the Panthers but only rushed for 450 yards.

Played nearly twice the snaps as Fournette.

slim
04-12-2018, 01:42 PM
Played nearly twice the snaps as Fournette.

Yet had fewer yards and TDs

Freyaka
04-12-2018, 01:49 PM
Yet had fewer yards and TDs

Both of your takes are off honestly....

In college over 3 years Fornettte had 616 attempts, 3830 yards, 6.5 average 40 TD's. He also had a total of 526 receiving yards, 1 receiving TD.
In a 3 year span Barkley had 3843 yards on 671 attempts for a career average of 5.7 he had 43 TD's on the ground and 1195 yards receiving, 8 receiving TD's

So he didn't have "nearly twice the snaps" nor did he have "more yards and TD's" I mean technically, Fornette was slightly more effective as a runner, but Barkley was slightly more effective as a receiving back. The two backs "In college" the only fair place to compare them (because you can't compare Barkley's college career to Fornette's first season as a pro, different levels of competition) Their college stats for the most part mirror each other.

Bottom line, Fornette had 4,356 yards from scrimmage (rushing and receiving combined) and 41 total TD's. Barkley had 5,038 yards from scrimmage and 51 total TD's.

slim
04-12-2018, 01:52 PM
Both of your takes are off honestly....

In college over 3 years Fornettte had 616 attempts, 3830 yards, 6.5 average 40 TD's. He also had a total of 526 receiving yards, 1 receiving TD.
In a 3 year span Barkley had 3843 yards on 671 attempts for a career average of 5.7 he had 43 TD's on the ground and 1195 yards receiving, 8 receiving TD's

So he didn't have "nearly twice the snaps" nor did he have "more yards and TD's" the two backs "In college" the only fair place to compare them (because you can't compare Barkley's college career to Fornette's first season as a pro, different levels of competition) Their college stats for the most part mirror each other.

I don't think you picked up on the topic. :listen:

Freyaka
04-12-2018, 01:56 PM
I don't think you picked up on the topic. :listen:

I guess not... reading through again, perhaps you were talking about McCaffrey, it was vague if you hadn't read every damn post and who the heck has time for that. Still comparing Fornette and Barkley's production is an interesting way of building a case for Barkley as Fornette wasn't a bad back at all in his rookie year.

Hawgdriver
04-12-2018, 04:49 PM
Yet had fewer yards and TDs

Yeah, it's weird. I think I'd rather have Fournette on my team, but McCaffrey apparently contributes in pass pro and passing game in a more flexible way.

slim
04-12-2018, 04:54 PM
Yeah, it's weird. I think I'd rather have Fournette on my team, but McCaffrey apparently contributes in pass pro and passing game in a more flexible way.

Their yards/carry and yards/catch are similar, with LF slightly better in both categories.

Im not sure what to make of it.

Hawgdriver
04-12-2018, 04:58 PM
Something about C-Mac being on the field so much is compelling. Have to see if he's able to convert it to production more. He was starting to run at a 5.0 clip with more carries the back half of the season.

SmilinAssasSin27
04-12-2018, 04:58 PM
They are all badasses.

slim
04-12-2018, 05:07 PM
One of them is a white RB.

dogfish
04-12-2018, 11:17 PM
They are all badasses.

i wish we'd gotten a real look at henderson last year, but we should probably just draft another one anyway. . . it looks like a good year to do it, and you can never have too much talent in the backfield. . .

Simple Jaded
04-12-2018, 11:25 PM
McCaffrey is/was so overrated, Barkley is no Christian McCaffrey. Horrible comp.

Poet
04-12-2018, 11:27 PM
McCaffrey is/was so overrated, Barkley is no Christian McCaffrey. Horrible comp.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCaCh01.htm

Overrated!

Simple Jaded
04-12-2018, 11:30 PM
8th pick in the draft, people wanted Denver to trade up from mid-20’s for McCaffrey but most are dead set against trading up 3 spots for a QB.

EL. OH. F’ing. EL

Poet
04-12-2018, 11:31 PM
8th pick in the draft, people wanted Denver to trade up from mid-20’s for McCaffrey but most are dead set against trading up 3 spots for a QB.

EL. OH. F’ing. EL

It was his last name, bro.

Simple Jaded
04-12-2018, 11:35 PM
It was his last name, bro.

Last name and skin color.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-13-2018, 12:00 AM
I hope we get Barkley

Freyaka
04-13-2018, 08:07 AM
Something about C-Mac being on the field so much is compelling. Have to see if he's able to convert it to production more. He was starting to run at a 5.0 clip with more carries the back half of the season.

Honestly, I don't think Panthers really utilized him correctly. I wouldn't put it all on his shoulders.

OrangeHoof
04-13-2018, 12:08 PM
I think I have found the worst-case scenario:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-six-quarterbacks-taken-in-first-round-including-one-for-the-patriots/

In this mock, we trade up to #2 in order to draft Josh Rosen, giving up #5, #40 and #106.

I am highly against moving up for anyone in the first round. If they fall to us at #5, great. But nobody is worth trading up for. Nobody.

Poet
04-13-2018, 12:09 PM
I think I have found the worst-case scenario:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-six-quarterbacks-taken-in-first-round-including-one-for-the-patriots/

In this mock, we trade up to #2 in order to draft Josh Rosen, giving up #5, #40 and #106.

I am highly against moving up for anyone in the first round. If they fall to us at #5, great. But nobody is worth trading up for. Nobody.

This is the best case scenario.

Cugel
04-13-2018, 12:15 PM
Honestly, I don't think Panthers really utilized him correctly. I wouldn't put it all on his shoulders.

80 pass receptions for a RB in his rookie season is "using him correctly." That is why they drafted him, and that is why the Broncos were reportedly willing to trade up to #12 to draft him themselves if he fell that far.

Cugel
04-13-2018, 12:16 PM
This is the best case scenario.

Sure is! If you are a Raiders fan and want the Broncos to go 3-13 for the next 2 seasons and fire Elway. :coffee:

Poet
04-13-2018, 12:20 PM
Sure is! If you are a Raiders fan and want the Broncos to go 3-13 for the next 2 seasons and fire Elway. :coffee:

Or if you're someone whose understanding of the game isn't predicated on the basis of whatever random Broncos Insider spewed. But please, continue to post as you do and keep contradicting yourself. It's always a blast to point that garbage out.

CoachChaz
04-13-2018, 12:25 PM
First of all...the Giants aren't giving up #2 for #5 unless next years #1 is included. So, the proposed trade is already ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is giving up that much for one of these 3 QB's. (Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield)

Poet
04-13-2018, 12:27 PM
They said the same thing about Goff and Wentz. Last year I heard all about how wonderful this batch of QB's would be. Now suddenly that's somehow changed, but especially so with the people who like CK? Come on man, Darnold and Rosen are legitimate high round draft picks.

Nomad
04-13-2018, 12:41 PM
They said the same thing about Goff and Wentz. Last year I heard all about how wonderful this batch of QB's would be. Now suddenly that's somehow changed, but especially so with the people who like CK? Come on man, Darnold and Rosen are legitimate high round draft picks.

Coach is very knowledgable when it comes to evaluating. You should listen.

Poet
04-13-2018, 12:42 PM
Coach is very knowledgable when it comes to evaluating. You should listen.

He is very knowledgeable. So are the scouts and reporting analysts that I read, too. No one is gospel, Nomad.

Freyaka
04-13-2018, 01:05 PM
I think I have found the worst-case scenario:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-six-quarterbacks-taken-in-first-round-including-one-for-the-patriots/

In this mock, we trade up to #2 in order to draft Josh Rosen, giving up #5, #40 and #106.

I am highly against moving up for anyone in the first round. If they fall to us at #5, great. But nobody is worth trading up for. Nobody.

As long as we didn't give up the farm, I'm totally ok with that personally. Rosen is a good option.

Freyaka
04-13-2018, 01:06 PM
80 pass receptions for a RB in his rookie season is "using him correctly." That is why they drafted him, and that is why the Broncos were reportedly willing to trade up to #12 to draft him themselves if he fell that far.

He could have a done a lot more in the running game as well though. To limit him to the passing game...might as well grab a slot receiver if you are going that route...

OrangeHoof
04-13-2018, 01:20 PM
This is the best case scenario.

Maybe for a Bengals fan.

Poet
04-13-2018, 02:47 PM
Maybe for a Bengals fan.

Who the **** is a Bengals fan?

Freyaka
04-13-2018, 02:50 PM
Who the **** is a Bengals fan?

I'm assuming people who enjoy QB's without souls.

Poet
04-13-2018, 03:42 PM
I'm assuming people who enjoy QB's without souls.

I don't see no stinking Bengals fans. Do you see one? I sure don't.

Freyaka
04-13-2018, 03:57 PM
I don't see no stinking Bengals fans. Do you see one? I sure don't.

https://i.giphy.com/media/hEc4k5pN17GZq/giphy.webp

Cugel
04-13-2018, 06:21 PM
As long as we didn't give up the farm, I'm totally ok with that personally. Rosen is a good option.

I don't have a strong opinion about any of these QBs but you should be aware of the options.

If they draft a QB at #2 they will have to give up 2 or 3 first round picks to move up that high. That sacrifices the heart of their draft for the next 2 years at least.

To move from #5 to #2 equals 900 points (2600 - 1700 = 900). That's equal to the #18 pick of the draft. The Broncos would be offering their first round pick next year, PLUS probably #40 (500 points) or their 3rd rounder.

So #5 this year and 1st round next year, plus second or third round this year. The Jets gave up their #6 pick PLUS 3 second round picks and #3 is only worth 2200 points, not 2600.

So the Giants would want a lot more. You have to pay a premium.

So, you're not going to strengthen a very weak roster for this season or next except in FA. Vance Joseph will be fired by mid-season after the team goes into a tail-spin. The rookie will not start because "he's not ready."

The Broncos will then be starting over with an entirely new coaching regime, while what few ageing veterans they have want to leave town rather than go through several years of rebuilding with a rookie QB.

You really are on a 3 year rebuild here. Maybe, if in 2020 you are able to build a solid team with a young franchise QB. If you're lucky.

But, 2020 is a long time to wait and there's no guarantee the new coach will be any better than the old one. Vance Joseph wasn't any better than Kubiak, so why would VJ's successor necessarily be any good?

I say, let's put some great players around Keenum and try and save VJ's job if that can happen. And then maybe there will be some stability on this team which can be a foundation for future success, and not just turmoil and crap.

Freyaka
04-13-2018, 07:25 PM
I don't have a strong opinion about any of these QBs but you should be aware of the options.

If they draft a QB at #2 they will have to give up 2 or 3 first round picks to move up that high. That sacrifices the heart of their draft for the next 2 years at least.

To move from #5 to #2 equals 900 points (2600 - 1700 = 900). That's equal to the #18 pick of the draft. The Broncos would be offering their first round pick next year, PLUS probably #40 (500 points) or their 3rd rounder.

So #5 this year and 1st round next year, plus second or third round this year. The Jets gave up their #6 pick PLUS 3 second round picks and #3 is only worth 2200 points, not 2600.

So the Giants would want a lot more. You have to pay a premium.

So, you're not going to strengthen a very weak roster for this season or next except in FA. Vance Joseph will be fired by mid-season after the team goes into a tail-spin. The rookie will not start because "he's not ready."

The Broncos will then be starting over with an entirely new coaching regime, while what few ageing veterans they have want to leave town rather than go through several years of rebuilding with a rookie QB.

You really are on a 3 year rebuild here. Maybe, if in 2020 you are able to build a solid team with a young franchise QB. If you're lucky.

But, 2020 is a long time to wait and there's no guarantee the new coach will be any better than the old one. Vance Joseph wasn't any better than Kubiak, so why would VJ's successor necessarily be any good?

I say, let's put some great players around Keenum and try and save VJ's job if that can happen. And then maybe there will be some stability on this team which can be a foundation for future success, and not just turmoil and crap.

If we get our QB of the future and he doesn't bust, I'm ok with a first a second and a first next year... If you aren't that's your prerogative....And why in the bloody mother trucking hell would you want to save VJ's job. **** that guy.

Simple Jaded
04-13-2018, 07:38 PM
First of all...the Giants aren't giving up #2 for #5 unless next years #1 is included. So, the proposed trade is already ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is giving up that much for one of these 3 QB's. (Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield)

Bullshit, It’s done all the time by teams that need a QB ... like the Denver Broncos.

How is it remotely plausible that the Bills and P*triots would trade up for one of these 3 QB’s but, somehow, it’s “ridiculous” for Denver?

Simple Jaded
04-13-2018, 07:40 PM
2 years/$36 M for a garbage talent, that’s ridiculous.

Simple Jaded
04-13-2018, 07:42 PM
I think I have found the worst-case scenario:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-six-quarterbacks-taken-in-first-round-including-one-for-the-patriots/

In this mock, we trade up to #2 in order to draft Josh Rosen, giving up #5, #40 and #106.

I am highly against moving up for anyone in the first round. If they fall to us at #5, great. But nobody is worth trading up for. Nobody.

Says who?

The Jets moved up a month ago and they don’t even know who’ll be available.

Maybe Denver should wait a couple years when the cost to trade up triples.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-13-2018, 10:15 PM
Says who?

The Jets moved up a month ago and they don’t even know who’ll be available.

Maybe Denver should wait a couple years when the cost to trade up triples.

No, we should wait until we’ve had 2, .500 seasons and Keenum is on his way out of town when we’re drafting in the late teens, early 20s to make a move on a QB class that will most likely be much worse than who is out there now. That way, we can totally have to mortgage an entire draft and part of another one to get up high enough for a worthwhile QB. That’s the ******* ticket right there. Instead, let’s draft a Guard with the #5 overall pick or trade out of the top ten altogether and draft lesser talent. Then we’ll have more second and third round picks to waste on even shittier players... brilliant!

Simple Jaded
04-13-2018, 10:45 PM
No, we should wait until we’ve had 2, .500 seasons and Keenum is on his way out of town when we’re drafting in the late teens, early 20s to make a move on a QB class that will most likely be much worse than who is out there now. That way, we can totally have to mortgage an entire draft and part of another one to get up high enough for a worthwhile QB. That’s the ******* ticket right there. Instead, let’s draft a Guard with the #5 overall pick or trade out of the top ten altogether and draft lesser talent. Then we’ll have more second and third round picks to waste on even shittier players... brilliant!

What these people are saying, without actually saying it, is they think CK is already the type of QB you’d get in the Top 5.

BroncoJoe
04-13-2018, 10:52 PM
What these people are saying, without actually saying it, is they think CK is already the type of QB you’d get in the Top 5.

With only a very few exceptions, CK is better than any rookie.

Davii
04-13-2018, 10:57 PM
With only a very few exceptions, CK is better than any rookie.

Although CK is a known commodity, and all the rookies are unknown NFL commodities at this point, I can't agree with this statement. All of the top QBs in this year's draft have the potential to be better than CK. I hope we draft one, I hope it's Rosen, but I will trust John more than my own talent scouting instincts. I don't believe CK is the answer. Yeah, he's AN answer, but I don't think he's the right one. He can help the rookie develop, and be a stopgap until they're ready.

BroncoJoe
04-13-2018, 11:00 PM
Although CK is a known commodity, and all the rookies are unknown NFL commodities at this point, I can't agree with this statement. All of the top QBs in this year's draft have the potential to be better than CK. I hope we draft one, I hope it's Rosen, but I will trust John more than my own talent scouting instincts. I don't believe CK is the answer. Yeah, he's AN answer, but I don't think he's the right one. He can help the rookie develop, and be a stopgap until they're ready.

We know what we have in CK, and it's not bad. All of the QB's in this draft are nothing more than a crap shoot. On average, only one is going to amount to anything.

Davii
04-13-2018, 11:01 PM
We know what we have in CK, and it's not bad. All of the QB's in this draft are nothing more than a crap shoot. On average, only one is going to amount to anything.

We shall see.

Simple Jaded
04-13-2018, 11:01 PM
With only a very few exceptions, CK is better than any rookie.

Erroneous!

Joe, did I honk at you this morning? Saw a dude with Broncos flags and a bumper sticker that said “I love my wife”

BroncoJoe
04-13-2018, 11:06 PM
Erroneous!

Joe, did I honk at you this morning? Saw a dude with Broncos flags and a bumper sticker that said “I love my wife”

Maybe? I was cranking George Thorogood in the car this morning so I didn't hear any honking.

Davii
04-13-2018, 11:07 PM
Maybe? I was cranking George Thorogood in the car this morning so I didn't hear any honking.

Do you have that bumper sticker on your car? I don't recall seeing that.

Poet
04-13-2018, 11:07 PM
We know what we have in CK, and it's not bad. All of the QB's in this draft are nothing more than a crap shoot. On average, only one is going to amount to anything.

Joe, I think one lone relevant season isn't enough to say we know what we have in CK.

BroncoJoe
04-13-2018, 11:10 PM
Do you have that bumper sticker on your car? I don't recall seeing that.

No, but I'd like one!

BroncoJoe
04-13-2018, 11:11 PM
Joe, I think one lone relevant season isn't enough to say we know what we have in CK.

King, a successful college career isn't enough to say we know what we'll have in any draftee.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-13-2018, 11:12 PM
What these people are saying, without actually saying it, is they think CK is already the type of QB you’d get in the Top 5.

:rofl:
For the first year maybe. There’s a reason CK was undrafted.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
04-13-2018, 11:13 PM
I work for a large commercial contractor. One of the carpenters likes to put a bumper sticker on project manager’s trucks:

“Wrangler butts drive me nuts “

Simple Jaded
04-13-2018, 11:17 PM
I work for a large commercial contractor. One of the carpenters likes to put a bumper sticker on project manager’s trucks:

“Wrangler butts drive me nuts “

I had one that said “F.U.K.C”

OrangeHoof
04-14-2018, 09:21 AM
Says who?

The Jets moved up a month ago and they don’t even know who’ll be available.

Maybe Denver should wait a couple years when the cost to trade up triples.

Moving up to #2 means you're okay with two distinct possibilities.

My comment is that I am okay with five distinct possibilities and saving those future picks. Let's say that three of those QBs are acceptable plus Nelson and Barkley. Why, then, would I trade up?

Cugel
04-14-2018, 10:37 AM
First of all...the Giants aren't giving up #2 for #5 unless next years #1 is included. So, the proposed trade is already ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is giving up that much for one of these 3 QB's. (Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield)

Basically this.

We will soon see how the NFL teams evaluate each of these QBs. If the Browns and Giants pass on taking a QB, leaving Darnold or Allen to the Jets at #3, then we will have confirmation of the sentiment among some draft experts, that there's really not a true #1 overall pick QB in this years' draft, that all of them are flawed in one way or another, and that there's not really all that much difference between the top 4 QBs and #5 or #6.

Six QBs are supposed to be taken in the first round, including Mason Rudolph, Lamar Jackson, or Kyle Lauletta (maybe 2 of those 3).

Teams are taking so many QBs because they are judged to be all about the same, roughly. Maybe Darnold and Allen have the most "upside potential" that scouts rave about but ordinary fans don't really understand. Who the hell knows what "potential" each of these guys really has?

But, we know from history that about (2 or 3) of these six QBs will wash out and maybe 1 or 2 of them will be really good, while the rest will be mediocre. So, in all likelihood you spent the 5th pick of the draft on a guy who will be mediocre or bad.

That's why Elway is betting his career on the choice, and has to be sure he's getting the right guy. And if he's not sure, then he has to take a player instead.

Simple Jaded
04-14-2018, 06:38 PM
Moving up to #2 means you're okay with two distinct possibilities.

My comment is that I am okay with five distinct possibilities and saving those future picks. Let's say that three of those QBs are acceptable plus Nelson and Barkley. Why, then, would I trade up?

I’m okay with all these possibilities, I haven’t flipped my lid at the notion of any of these possibilities, unlike some of y’all.

Arguing against trading up is as old as this MB, but again, the reason to move up is to get the better player. It doesn’t mean that you’re closed off to all but two possibilities, that’s stupid.

Clearly I am open to possibilities that you’re not, and, most of those that you are open to, so let’s not get this twisted.

OrangeHoof
04-15-2018, 12:42 AM
I’m okay with all these possibilities, I haven’t flipped my lid at the notion of any of these possibilities, unlike some of y’all.

Arguing against trading up is as old as this MB, but again, the reason to move up is to get the better player. It doesn’t mean that you’re closed off to all but two possibilities, that’s stupid.

Clearly I am open to possibilities that you’re not, and, most of those that you are open to, so let’s not get this twisted.

You're contradicting yourself. You trade up to #2 because there are only two players you consider acceptable at the top of the draft and you've decided you desperately need one of them. Let's say, hypothetically, that you've studied all the QBs and decided the only two you'd bet your career on are Darnold and Mayfield. You've rationalized they are franchise QBs to the exclusion of all the others (and JFE may have that belief for all I know). Then it makes sense to trade up, sell out next year's #1 and this year's to get up to #2. If that's Elway's position, I can get behind it, particularly if Kubiak feels the same.

I, personally, think that none of the QBs being discussed is a sure-fire star at the next level. If so, it makes more sense to wait and see what falls to us. That's why I would be distressed about a trade up. I feel there are five players worthy of being the #5 pick but perhaps none worthy of being the #2 pick. I would even be okay with trading down with Buffalo to get #12 and #21 if a few certain someones are on the board but that gets risky.

dogfish
04-26-2018, 01:51 PM
so, y'all probably gathered that drafting josh allen is my ultimate nightmare scenario. . . i really don't think JFE is dumb enough to do it, though. . .

#FingersCrossed

however, the other scenario that's making me a little nervous is all the "trade down" chatter i keep hearing. . . i'm okay with moving down IF we can get a premium price for our premium pick. . . moving down just to move down, because they don't love anyone at five, would suck. . . i think that might be my worst plausible outcome right now. . . doing some shit like moving back to fifteen without getting next year's first, and we end up with a harold landry, mike hughes kind of pick. . . IMO, even if our top guys are gone, we need to hold firm and take the best guy on our board unless somebody blows us away with a can't resist type of offer. . .

SmilinAssasSin27
04-26-2018, 04:37 PM
Allen

chazoe60
04-26-2018, 04:39 PM
Ward

Buff
04-26-2018, 04:42 PM
Ward

I understand your aversion to a DB - but Ward is definitely not the worst case scenario. He'd be an immediate starter with speed and physicality, even if he's undersized. Allen would be our 3rd giant experimental QB who can't throw accurately and would come in as a backup.

SmilinAssasSin27
04-26-2018, 04:47 PM
I understand your aversion to a DB - but Ward is definitely not the worst case scenario. He'd be an immediate starter with speed and physicality, even if he's undersized. Allen would be our 3rd giant experimental QB who can't throw accurately and would come in as a backup.

Not sure Ward would start over Roby and Harris.

Buff
04-26-2018, 04:53 PM
Not sure Ward would start over Roby and Harris.

We are in base nickel at least half the time nowadays. Semantics.