Vita Vea at 5...OG Wynn in round 2...

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Thoughts

[Jsteve01]

Thoughts

I love vea and honestly DT has more value at 5 than guard. Although need would say guard ranks higher as a tea m need. I love Wynn. He can play every position on the line and is a fantastic athlete

[SmilinAssasSin27]

And our NT is 33yo.

[Simple Jaded]

Broncos did try to trade for Shelton so you know they see a need too.

[Jsteve01]

Broncos did try to trade for Shelton so you know they see a need too.

Vea is a ngata clone. I admit the fact that they are both poly kids makes it a lazy analogy but vea is a badass

[aberdien]

That would be worth the "reach" I think. Let's do it.

[Simple Jaded]

Vea is a ngata clone. I admit the fact that they are both poly kids makes it a lazy analogy but vea is a badass

Polynesians are beasts too, no Albert Haynesworth’s in that culture.

[Jsteve01]

Vea is a ngata clone. I admit the fact that they are both poly kids makes it a lazy analogy but vea is a badass

Polynesians are beasts too, no Albert Haynesworth’s in that culture.

Grew up with a bunch. The way tribal warrior is ingrained into that culture is crazy. Also given amazing genetics they are fun to play with. We had a 5'9" 230 lb kid who ran consistent 4.4s on my rugby team. Try tackling that lol

[Buff]

I'm skeptical of any 340 pound human being a 3 down defender. Plus there will be too many other talented players who play more valuable positions that will be available to even think about Vea.

I'd much prefer Nelson, who would contribute every down, and whose profile is much more difficult to acquire these days as opposed to a massive run stopper. Or I'd prefer to take the best DE or DB on the board as opposed to grabbing a 340 lb run stuffer.

[Hawgdriver]

I'm skeptical of any 340 pound human being a 3 down defender. Plus there will be too many other talented players who play more valuable positions that will be available to even think about Vea.

I'd much prefer Nelson, who would contribute every down, and whose profile is much more difficult to acquire these days as opposed to a massive run stopper. Or I'd prefer to take the best DE or DB on the board as opposed to grabbing a 340 lb run stuffer.

I'm generally of this opinion, but I'd also be fine with Vea by way of Parcell's planet theory. Also, reducing Vea to 'massive run stuffer' is inaccurate. He's the heart of one of college football's best defenses and plays with a high motor until the end of the fourth quarter. He generates interior pocket collapse, commanding two linemen to contain. Wins one on ones far more often than stalemates, rarely loses. Sometimes destroys guards. His sack and batted ball numbers don't say 'massive run stuffer.'

I like Nelson under the 100% offensive snap idea, but even the best interior defensive guys are 70% snap guys. I'd prefer Nelson on the hunch he's the superior football player, but I'd be fine with Vea.

[Buff]

Here are my deal breakers at #5 - We need an every down player, at a position of value, with a really high floor and prototypical size.

I don't want Vea as he's not an every down player.
I don't want Baker Mayfield as he doesn't have prototypical size and possesses the lowest of floors.
I don't want Denzel Ward due to his size.

Give me one of the top 3 QBs, Barkley, Chubb or Nelson, essentially.

[slim]

I do not want Rosen.

His personality is too Culterish

[BroncoJoe]

I do not want Rosen.

His personality is too Culterish

Somewhere, a king is crying.

[slim]

Somewhere, a king is crying.

Crying without clothes!

[dogfish]

no way. . . buff's 100% right, it's crazy to spend a top-five pick on a two-down player. . . you can find a perfectly productive NT without breaking the bank these days-- look how well we did with peko last year. . . if they want more depth behind him, stick tyrique jarrett out there. . .

[Poet]

He's an even worse selection than the guard.

[Jsteve01]

I just don't see him as a two down player. The way that he collapses the pocket from the interior is ridiculous. He's not a traditional knows that's just going to stand there and hold up a couple blockers. If we really playing a penetrating Philips type 3 4 he can be a guy that is on the field on passing Downs as well.

[dogfish]

I just don't see him as a two down player. The way that he collapses the pocket from the interior is ridiculous. He's not a traditional knows that's just going to stand there and hold up a couple blockers. If we really playing a penetrating Philips type 3 4 he can be a guy that is on the field on passing Downs as well.

playing at 347 pounds, with half his games at altitude? i can't say that he can't do it, but man, that i would have to see. . . even if he can, i'm guessing you could get the same or more production out of two lesser players. . . i'd much rather take nelson-- i know he's going to play every snap. . .

[Simple Jaded]

After everything Rosen has done for you? Smdh

[Jsteve01]

I just don't see him as a two down player. The way that he collapses the pocket from the interior is ridiculous. He's not a traditional knows that's just going to stand there and hold up a couple blockers. If we really playing a penetrating Philips type 3 4 he can be a guy that is on the field on passing Downs as well.

playing at 347 pounds, with half his games at altitude? i can't say that he can't do it, but man, that i would have to see. . . even if he can, i'm guessing you could get the same or more production out of two lesser players. . . i'd much rather take nelson-- i know he's going to play every snap. . .

I've played with massive Polynesians at altitude. Had 300-plus Pounders on a rugby team that used to travel all over the rocky mountain region and play in places like Crested Butte and Aspen. People can adapt if they're Superior athletically and he is that. Look at all the good Polynesian players that have played at Utah over the years or BYU. They're playing at altitude

[G_Money]

In a trading-back-with-the-Bills situation for 12 and 22 I wanted Vea and Hernandez. Wynn is also good. Vea is my main target if we decide to trade back, let someone else take a QB, and still have a top-12-ish pick. I just think he's tremendous. I watched a lot of Washington football, and you can hub a defense around that guy. I think the world of Nelson and based on our need to keep QBs alive I don't trust that the Broncos will successfully address their OL needs later - they haven't so far, despite dropping several picks in the first two days on the issue. Basically I want them to pick Nelson so they don't grab another Sambrailo or Schofield later, which is not helpful. I don't trust John's OL acumen is what I'm saying.

But if you could get me a great DT and a great OL with the first 2 picks, especially if you're getting another one to make that happen, it makes a lot of sense to me.

[Nomad]

In a trading-back-with-the-Bills situation for 12 and 22 I wanted Vea and Hernandez. Wynn is also good. Vea is my main target if we decide to trade back, let someone else take a QB, and still have a top-12-ish pick. I just think he's tremendous. I watched a lot of Washington football, and you can hub a defense around that guy. I think the world of Nelson and based on our need to keep QBs alive I don't trust that the Broncos will successfully address their OL needs later - they haven't so far, despite dropping several picks in the first two days on the issue. Basically I want them to pick Nelson so they don't grab another Sambrailo or Schofield later, which is not helpful. I don't trust John's OL acumen is what I'm saying.

But if you could get me a great DT and a great OL with the first 2 picks, especially if you're getting another one to make that happen, it makes a lot of sense to me.

If there was a guarantee it would work out like this, I'd be all for it. But, I'm on the Nelson train....he's the real deal.

[G_Money]

If there was a guarantee it would work out like this, I'd be all for it. But, I'm on the Nelson train....he's the real deal.

Exactly. I write about the Nuggets for SBNation - I just watched them try to get cute in the draft last year and miss the guy they really needed (and were moving back to add) by 1 pick while also passing on a ROY player at their original pick. Sometimes you don't worry about trying to be the smartest dealer in the room and just play the hand you're dealt to the utmost. Denver's got 8 picks in the first 5 rounds, 6 in the first 113. Go get 4 starters and a couple of pro bowlers out of this, instead of the collection of cast-offs and special teamers we've been doing the last couple of years.

[Hawgdriver]

In a trading-back-with-the-Bills situation for 12 and 22 I wanted Vea and Hernandez. Wynn is also good. Vea is my main target if we decide to trade back, let someone else take a QB, and still have a top-12-ish pick. I just think he's tremendous. I watched a lot of Washington football, and you can hub a defense around that guy. I think the world of Nelson and based on our need to keep QBs alive I don't trust that the Broncos will successfully address their OL needs later - they haven't so far, despite dropping several picks in the first two days on the issue. Basically I want them to pick Nelson so they don't grab another Sambrailo or Schofield later, which is not helpful. I don't trust John's OL acumen is what I'm saying.

But if you could get me a great DT and a great OL with the first 2 picks, especially if you're getting another one to make that happen, it makes a lot of sense to me.

Vea + Hernandez > Nelson

imo

[Freyaka]

Thoughts

If we trade back with the Bills, I'd say absolutely to Vea, but not at 5.

[dogfish]

stopping the run is literally like the only thing we were good at last year. . . first round nose tackle is a total luxury pick. . . if we trade back, i'd take derwin james, or one of the linebackers. . .

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

stopping the run is literally like the only thing we were good at last year. . . first round nose tackle is a total luxury pick. . . if we trade back, i'd take derwin james, or one of the linebackers. . .

If his upside is like Ngata, he’s be worth #5.

[Poet]

If his upside is like Ngata, he’s be worth #5.

If he's actually Ngata, who was an asset on third down, then absolutely.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

If he's actually Ngata, who was an asset on third down, then absolutely.

Ngata was the most dominant lineman in football for 4-5 years.

I forgive Shannahan!

[Hawgdriver]

Here's MMQB on VV:


“His stats don’t tell the story of how destructive he is,” says Texas assistant Clay McGuire, who coached Washington State’s offensive line for the past six seasons and faced Vea three times. Indeed, Vea’s 2017 numbers were pedestrian (44 tackles, 5.5 tackles for loss, 3.5 sacks), but that didn’t stop Pac-12 head coaches from voting him the league’s Defensive Player of the Year. Those coaches voted for Vea because he ate up two and sometimes three blockers at a time and allowed linebackers to roam unhindered for a defense that led the conference and finished tied for third in the nation in yards per play allowed (4.42). They also voted for him because they spent game weeks wondering if he’d toss their offensive linemen into a handoff or chase down their tailbacks from behind. “It gets kind weird when you look at that film and you see a 340-pounder running with a 200-pound linebacker and we get to the ball at the same time,” Washington linebacker Keishawn Bierria says. “Something’s wrong here.” That’s probably what UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen thought this past season when he squirted through the line of scrimmage expecting a much bigger gain only to have Vea trip him up from behind. Shortly after that, UCLA’s left guard tried to pass off a stunting Vea to the left tackle, and Vea blew through both blockers and buried Rosen for a sack.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/01/vita-vea-draft-combine-size-speed-40-time-washington-first-round

[G_Money]

Vea + Hernandez > Nelson

imo

Again, if you can guarantee it'll happen. If you trade back, miss on Vea at 12 AND Hernandez at 22, and go with some guys I don't trust as much (let's say Tremaine Edmunds the baby pass rusher and the running back Guice) then you start taking hopefuls instead of some surer things.

I'm down with moving back. But more than squeezing the last drop of value out of the selections we can make, I want to make the right selections. If you think Nelson can anchor a line for a decade with a shot at the HOF, then getting out of that because you'd rather draft your HOFer at 9 instead of 5 is silly. We have plenty of picks. What we need are terrific players.

If you can get me two terrific players in the first round instead of one, I'm not gonna say no. And like I said, I'm a big Vea fan. But whiffing on OL AGAIN in this draft would be a killer disappointment.

[Poet]

Again, if you can guarantee it'll happen. If you trade back, miss on Vea at 12 AND Hernandez at 22, and go with some guys I don't trust as much (let's say Tremaine Edmunds the baby pass rusher and the running back Guice) then you start taking hopefuls instead of some surer things.

I'm down with moving back. But more than squeezing the last drop of value out of the selections we can make, I want to make the right selections. If you think Nelson can anchor a line for a decade with a shot at the HOF, then getting out of that because you'd rather draft your HOFer at 9 instead of 5 is silly. We have plenty of picks. What we need are terrific players.

If you can get me two terrific players in the first round instead of one, I'm not gonna say no. And like I said, I'm a big Vea fan. But whiffing on OL AGAIN in this draft would be a killer disappointment.

Assuming any guard is a HoFer is a folly. Take your analysis of making the right pick one step further and stop considering a guard at five.

[Nomad]

Assuming any guard is a HoFer is a folly. Take your analysis of making the right pick one step further and stop considering a guard at five.

#rosenislikeadelicateflower

[Poet]

#rosenislikeadelicateflower

Then Draft one of the other QB's. They're all good prospects.

[Timmy!]

Nelllllllllllson

[Nomad]

Then Draft one of the other QB's. They're all good prospects.

No.

[Poet]

No.

I look forward to a string of .500 seasons where we can't actually address the QB need. But boy, we'll be running the ball better with our vaunted guard prospect.

[Nomad]

I look forward to a string of .500 seasons where we can't actually address the QB need. But boy, we'll be running the ball better with our vaunted guard prospect.

Ok. If I had to take one of these QBs, I'd probably take Allen. I would hope Mayfield could be a Wilson, or Brees, but I have a feeling more like Manziel.

[Poet]

Ok. If I had to take one of these QBs, I'd probably take Allen. I would hope Mayfield could be a Wilson, or Brees, but I have a feeling more like Manziel.

Allen is raw but is physically top tier and apparently fairly smart. It would make the CK signing make more sense, even though he'd learn more starting. It would be a great pick.

[Simple Jaded]

Rosen/Hernandez > Nelson

[Simple Jaded]

Rosen 1st
Hernandez 2nd
Desmond Harrison 3rd
Equan St. Brown 3rd

[Poet]

Rosen 1st
Hernandez 2nd
Desmond Harrison 3rd
Equan St. Brown 3rd

Rosen first.

Then redraft him in the second!

[Simple Jaded]

Rosen first.

Then redraft him in the second!

I just solved the offense problems, it’s science.

[Freyaka]

Allen is raw but is physically top tier and apparently fairly smart. It would make the CK signing make more sense, even though he'd learn more starting. It would be a great pick.

We've already watched this movie once with our Pirate QB. It was a box office flop.

[Simple Jaded]

We've already watched this movie once with our Pirate QB. It was a box office flop.

CK be like Vin Diesel, who might be the worst actor of all time but keeps getting shots at lead roles because people have low standards.

[Nomad]

Hernandez probably won't be there in the 2nd.

[Freyaka]

CK be like Vin Diesel, who might be the worst actor of all time but keeps getting shots at lead roles because people have low standards.

Well he's what we've got for now. That's all I got man.

You think I'm over here just worshiping at the shrine of CK? Nope, but I'm also not over here complaining about something that isn't likely to change. I don't see us taking a QB, so I can either sit here and moan and complain about how Keenum isn't the best QB in the world or recognize that he's all we've got and hope for him to surprise us all by repeating what he did last year. I'm hoping for him to be wildly successful because that means Denver will be successful in 2018.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

CK be like Vin Diesel, who might be the worst actor of all time but keeps getting shots at lead roles because people have low standards.

I see the CK signing as a supply thing

[Nomad]

If the Broncos do trade Lynch, they'll be taking a QB @#5. It believe that'll leave Mayfield, because Allen's stock has risen.

[Simple Jaded]

You don’t cast Daniel Day-Lewis in Fast and Furiously Furiouser and you don’t cast Adam Sandler in the Gangs of New York.

That’s the moral of the story.

[Freyaka]

You don’t cast Daniel Day-Lewis in Fast and Furiously Furiouser and you don’t cast Adam Sandler in the Gangs of New York.

That’s the moral of the story.

I still want to see Michael Cera play Shaft...

[Simple Jaded]

I still want to see Michael Cera play Shaft...

No different than a 6’-5” actor playing Wolverine.

[Simple Jaded]

Pedro Cirrano would be a good Shaft.

[Poet]

Jaded could be Stephen Hawking. May he rest in peace.

[dogfish]

You don’t cast Daniel Day-Lewis in Fast and Furiously Furiouser and you don’t cast Adam Sandler in the Gangs of New York.

That’s the moral of the story.

i have no idea what this means, but i like the sound of it!

[Simple Jaded]

My other hobby is a motivational speaker.

[Poet]

My other hobby is a motivational speaker.

If we trade back to 11 Vea would be a fine pick. In regards to motivation, you motivate me, man.

[7alpha30]

If the Broncos do trade Lynch, they'll be taking a QB @#5. It believe that'll leave Mayfield, because Allen's stock has risen.

I really hope that's not the Case! ;-)

It's very possible that Mayfield's ceiling is more or less what we have now with Case Keenum. We just paid Case Keenum a lot of money. What's the point of doing that if you're bringing in a more embryonic representation of Case Keenum?

[Jsteve01]

If the Broncos do trade Lynch, they'll be taking a QB @#5. It believe that'll leave Mayfield, because Allen's stock has risen.

I really hope that's not the Case! ;-)

It's very possible that Mayfield's ceiling is more or less what we have now with Case Keenum. We just paid Case Keenum a lot of money. What's the point of doing that if you're bringing in a more embryonic representation of Case Keenum?

Toss everything out. And Mayfield has the it Factor. His teammates love him. He's more athletic and has a better arm than Keenum does. All that said Keenum really seems to have settled into himself and he's confident in the throws that he can make. Honestly if you gave Keenum Trevor's slightly above-average athletic ability and above-average arm strength we could have a long-term fit. I'm not sold one way or the other I don't know that you can use last year to say yes this is who Case Keenum is but I'd also don't think that you can write off the growth that we've seen from him.

[dogfish]

I really hope that's not the Case! ;-)

It's very possible that Mayfield's ceiling is more or less what we have now with Case Keenum. We just paid Case Keenum a lot of money. What's the point of doing that if you're bringing in a more embryonic representation of Case Keenum?

well, you mean aside from the part where he's like 7 or 8 years younger, and would be under contract for 5 years for a fraction of what case will cost for 2?

none of the QBs are my first choice, but i think it's tough to argue against it if they do choose to go that way, given the importance of the position. . . i certainly would hope that they don't do it unless they legitimately love a guy who's available to them, and that they have a solid plan in place for his development if they do pull the trigger at 5. . .

shit. . . we don't know what's going to happen, but i do know i'm gonna enjoy the drama of draft day the most i have in a long damn time, win or lose. . .

:defense:

[Simple Jaded]

I really hope that's not the Case! ;-)

It's very possible that Mayfield's ceiling is more or less what we have now with Case Keenum. We just paid Case Keenum a lot of money. What's the point of doing that if you're bringing in a more embryonic representation of Case Keenum?


If the Broncos wanted an embryonic representation of CK they wouldn’t have to use a draft pick, the Yellow Pages is a good place to start looking.

[7alpha30]

well, you mean aside from the part where he's like 7 or 8 years younger, and would be under contract for 5 years for a fraction of what case will cost for 2?

none of the QBs are my first choice, but i think it's tough to argue against it if they do choose to go that way, given the importance of the position. . . i certainly would hope that they don't do it unless they legitimately love a guy who's available to them, and that they have a solid plan in place for his development if they do pull the trigger at 5. . .

shit. . . we don't know what's going to happen, but i do know i'm gonna enjoy the drama of draft day the most i have in a long damn time, win or lose. . .

:defense:

It's easy to argue against it.

As I've pointed out, history doesn't paint a pretty picture for spread QBs. Nor is it kind to QBs that are 6' tall. The NFL isn't like playing at Oklahoma. The other teams also have talent. The defenses in the NFL are also much different than what you see in the Big 12. It's extremely difficult to guarantee that it's going to be a smooth adjustment for Mayfield. It's quite possible he'll have a similar learning curve to Keenum or worse. Plus you add in maturity and height issues. How many times has Case Keenum been arrested? How many times has Case Keenum embarrassed himself or his team?

[Simple Jaded]

Ah, intangibles ... barf.

I wish Talib was still embarrassing the Broncos.

[Simple Jaded]

I wish Joe Mixon was embarrassing the Broncos.

[Simple Jaded]

Wish Ben Rapistberger was embarrassing the Broncos.