What the Giants Trade of JPP Means For the Broncos!

[Cugel]

As ESPN Reported, the Giants GM has traded Jason Pierre Paul to the Tampa Bay Bucs for Tampa's 3rd rounder, plus their fourth round pick, in exchange for JPP and the Giants fourth round pick.

JPP has never been the same after blowing up his hand in an ill-advised fireworks accident and the Giants are moving on from him at age 29.

But, what on earth does this have to do with the Broncos I hear you ask? Obviously, the Giants now need a monster pass-rushing DE. And they, not at all coincidentally, I mean not even a bit, happen to have the #2 pick of the draft. And sitting there like a ripe orange is Bradley Chubb, DE of NC State, whom the Giants just not-at-all-coincidentally have just visited.

And the Giants like QB Sam Darnold of USC but the Browns are now set to take him at #1 and not trade that pick. So, the Giants do not get the QB they coveted as the next Eli Manning, and so they go to Plan B, and take the #2 guy on their board - Bradley Chubb.


Giants held private visit with Bradley Chubb, will meet again
The New York Giants are courting defensive end prospect Bradley Chubb. (https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-giants/Bolt/NFL-Draft-New-York-Giants-met-with-Bradley-Chubb-privately-116603298)

Bradley Chubb is now squarely on the New York Giants radar with the No. 2 overall pick in the 2018 NFL Draft following the team's decision to trade defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul on Thursday.

According to NFL Network's Ian Rapoport, the Giants have already met privately with the North Carolina State edge rusher and plan to bring him into the facility for another visit with the new regime before the 2018 NFL Draft. Chubb is widely viewed as the best pass rusher in the entire draft class and someone who can immediately replace Pierre-Paul as a potentially better fit in new defensive coordinator James Bettcher's hybrid defensive scheme. Earlier this week, the Giants also sent defensive line coach Gary Emanuel to North Carolina State’s Pro Day to get an up-close look at Chubb.

So the Giants will take Chubb, or else they would never have dealt Jason Pierre Paul, who got 8 sacks last year. They're looking for a better, cheaper upgrade.

This of course means that Rosen, Allen and Mayfield are probably available for the Broncos if they want to trade up, assuming that the Browns take Darnold as expected.

The Jets who cleverly moved up to #3 to ****-block the Broncos and Bills path to Josh Allen (or potentially Baker Mayfield) are now out-maneuvered, because the Giants are now set to trade down out of the #2 pick to the Broncos if they want that #2 pick.

It also increases the chance of the Broncos trading up to #2, because the Browns are widely expected to take a QB #1 and not trade that pick, and the Giants are now committed to drafting Bradley Chubb, which they can conveniently do at #5 while picking up extra draft picks from the Broncos, since the Colts, who were smugly congratulating themselves that they had outmaneuvered everybody and were now set to not only get Chubb, but also three 2nd round picks, in a classic win-win, now are eating large Moose-turds.

The Giants will be able to either take Chubb themselves at #2 if John Elway doesn't want to make a trade, or else trade down to #5 and still take Chubb ahead of the Colts at #6. "Clever girl."

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And the Colts aren't going to jump back up to #4 to get Chubb ahead of the Giants because that would waste all the draft capital they acquired by moving down. They would look like complete morons if they did that!

Elway undoubtedly saw all this instantly as soon as he heard the news. Even before he reaches out to the Giants to see what it would take to move up (even if he has no intention of doing it, he'd sensibly want to know whether the Giants would now want to move down to #5 and take Chubb), he is now in a position where he has a choice to make.

He can either stick with what appears to be the plan to stand pat with Case Keenum for this season and either take a player at #5 or else trade back, or else trade up to #2 and get ahead of the Jets for a QB. And at #2 he'd have Rosen, Allen or Mayfield to choose from assuming the Browns took Darnold as expected (or else the Giants would not trade, but take Darnold).

I don't think he's going to do it, but I wanted to point out the possibility now openly exists because the Giants are committed. They no longer have TPP and his 8 sacks. They have to replace that production somehow.

[Buff]

Just playing out your hypothetical - if the asking price is three 2nd rounders as established by the NYJ, Elway would likely need to either: a.) get a 1st rounder involved, or b.) give them most of our picks this year (certainly he'd have to give them our 2nd plus both 3rd rounders and a pick or two from next year).

Then, we will have invested the #2 pick in a QB whose clock is ticking after paying $25 million guaranteed in Case Keenum for the next two seasons. I just don't see how that's the plan personally.

[Cugel]

Just playing out your hypothetical - if the asking price is three 2nd rounders as established by the NYJ, Elway would likely need to either: a.) get a 1st rounder involved, or b.) give them most of our picks this year (certainly he'd have to give them our 2nd plus both 3rd rounders and a pick or two from next year).

Then, we will have invested the #2 pick in a QB whose clock is ticking after paying $25 million guaranteed in Case Keenum for the next two seasons. I just don't see how that's the plan personally.

Oh, God no! I've been arguing that Elway won't do that and I would not want that. I am merely pointing out that the gateway is now open officially, since the Giants can't back out now. They must be convinced that Cleveland is taking Darnold or else they would have held onto JPP for another season. This is a salary dump move pure and simple. JPP is still productive at 8 sacks. He's only 29, and there's no reason to think he won't be still a good player in 2018 and for several years after that. He could even continue to improve over his 8 sacks. There are plenty of teams that would have wanted him, if he were a FA.

In giving him up they are creating a gaping wound on their DL which would be like the Broncos cutting Derek Wolfe, except that Wolfe had only 5.5 sacks and fewer tackles - JPP is still better even with that club.

But, the Giants don't need to take Chubb at #2, they just need to stay ahead of the Colts at #6. And the Broncos at #5 fit nicely. I have no doubt they would love to trade back to #5, stockpile a bunch of picks, and still get Chubb for a cheaper price. But, take him they will, either at #2 or #5.

I wouldn't trade up for Allen, but Elway just might. He's that kind of tall, big arm QB he loves. So, it could still happen, despite them paying $36m guaranteed to Keenum.

[Simple Jaded]

I don’t see how Case Keenum is the plan either.

[Cugel]

I don’t see how Case Keenum is the plan either.

Maybe you don't like him, but money talks and B.S. walks, and John Elway just stepped up to the plate with $36m guaranteed over 2 years. Cap hit of $15m in 2018 and $25m in 2019. I guar-an-diggidy-dog-tee he ain't spending no $25m in 2019 to have Case Keenum hold a clip-board. That would be the most expensive clip-board holder in NFL history.

I say, they ain't trading up nor taking a QB at #5 neither. :coffee:

An' I'm a-takin' on all comers! :fight:

[Poet]

Maybe you don't like him, but money talks and B.S. walks, and John Elway just stepped up to the plate with $36m guaranteed over 2 years. Cap hit of $15m in 2018 and $25m in 2019. I guar-an-diggidy-dog-tee he ain't spending $25m in 2019 to have Case Keenum hold a clip-board. That would be the most expensive clip-board holder in NFL history.

I say, they ain't trading up nor taking a QB at #5 neither. :coffee:

This is a great argument as to why this deal was horrific. Thank you, Cugel.

[Simple Jaded]

If Case Keenum is enough to satisfy this regime they might wanna put their homes on the market now while it’s a sellers market.

You guys talk like he’s like the Tony Romo ‘17 situation.

Hell, I would’ve drafted a QB at 5 WITH Tony Romo on the roster, you strike while the iron is hot.

[Cugel]

This is a great argument as to why this deal was horrific. Thank you, Cugel.

Well, I guess we'll see won't we? Elway is clearly betting that he's getting a QB they can win now with, and he's going to strengthen the team around Keenum, using the 10 draft picks he's amassed in this year's draft as capital.

He could get any of Barkley, Nelson or anybody else he wants other than a QB at #5, or else trade back to a team that wants Mayfield, and amass more draft capital. He would get 2 first round picks for instance if he traded down to #12 with the Bills. Probably he would get MORE than 2 first round picks. He could get all kinds of talent there too.

Not Nelson or Barkley or Fitzpatrick, but a S, LB or T would be available, and he would be in position to take a QB later in the first round too. "Double the pleasure, double the fun with double-pick, double-pick, double-pick in the first round." And probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder too.

[Cugel]

When you have a ginomus talent deficit that will take 8 or 9 players to fill, you need all the first round picks you can get! With this trade, they might get as many as 4 new starters this year from the first and second round, with 2 picks in each round (including their own 2nd rounder).

[Cugel]

If Case Keenum is enough to satisfy this regime they might wanna put their homes on the market now while it’s a sellers market.

You guys talk like he’s like the Tony Romo ‘17 situation.

Hell, I would’ve drafted a QB at 5 WITH Tony Romo on the roster, you strike while the iron is hot.

Well, all those fans who hate Case Keenum? Get used to watching him for the next two seasons come hell or high-water. Cause that ship done sailed!

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That deal is done, son!

[Simple Jaded]

When you have a ginomus talent deficit that will take 8 or 9 players to fill, you need all the first round picks you can get! With this trade, they might get as many as 4 new starters this year from the first and second round, with 2 picks in each round (including their own 2nd rounder).

That ginormous talent deficit includes a QB, you don’t fill that need last. Plain and simple.

This is the same argument Tebowfags used for not drafting a QB or (lolololol) not signing PFM.

[Simple Jaded]

Well, all those fans who hate Case Keenum? Get used to watching him for the next two seasons come hell or high-water. Cause that ship done sailed!

11915
That deal is done, son!
I high fived this so I can find it on April 26th.

[Cugel]

That ginormous talent deficit includes a QB, you don’t fill that need last. Plain and simple.

This is the same argument Tebowfags used for not drafting a QB or (lolololol) not signing PFM.

Lol! :laugh: Only if you think Keenum and Tebow are comparable at all! Which is utterly hilarious. Keenum threw 22 TDs and only 7 picks, 3500 yards and a passer rating of 98.3. In most categories, he finished in the top 10 in the NFL last year.

Tebow threw for 1700 yards, 12 Tds and a passer rating of 72.9!

That statement of yours is the most hilarious nonsense yet! :laugh:

You can argue all day that it's some kind of fluke, but the fact the he did it proves he can do it, and if he can do it once, there is strong evidence in favor of the opinion that he can do it again. And if he can do it again he's a top 12 QB. You can win a championship with a top 12 QB.

YOU might not believe he's that good but that doesn't make your opinion fact. He could simply be improving.

You don't believe that but obviously Elway does. We'll see who's right soon enough.

[Cugel]

I high fived this so I can find it on April 26th.

You still think they will trade up and get a QB or else take a QB at #5? Well, maybe. IF Elway is dumb enough to waste $36million, sure.

But, it will be the laziest way any man ever made $36m guaranteed in this world. Just sitting on his ass collecting $1,125,000 per game! That is the very definition of "good work, if you can get it."

Damn! I wish somebody would pay me 1 week worth of his salary to sit there on my ass and hold a clip-board! I can do that! And I'm available at the very reasonable price of $1.1m per week! I'll even give them a discount of $25,000 per game over what Keenum will charge them!

[Poet]

You still think they will trade up and get a QB or else take a QB at #5? Well, maybe. IF Elway is dumb enough to waste $36million, sure.

But, it will be the laziest way any man ever made $36m guaranteed in this world. Just sitting on his ass collecting $1,125,000 per game! That is the very definition of "good work, if you can get it."

I'm hoping that if CK isn't good enough to do anything, we don't just trot him out there because he got paid.

[Cugel]

I'm hoping that if CK isn't good enough to do anything, we don't just trot him out there because he got paid.

Dude, he'd have to punch Elway in the face for them to bench him at $36m guaranteed! You are getting wilder and wilder! :laugh:

[Poet]

Dude, he'd have to punch Elway in the face for them to bench him at $36m guaranteed! You are getting wilder and wilder! :laugh:

It's wild to hope that we don't start a veteran QB if he's not good?

[Cugel]

It's wild to hope that we don't start a veteran QB if he's not good?

It's wild to compare a good QB like Keenum to Tim Tebow who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. And it's wilder to hope he sucks so they don't play him, after they are paying him $36m guaranteed.

One might infer you Sir! are a Raiders fan in disguise! Wanting the Broncos to fail like that!

[Poet]

It's wild to compare a good QB like Keenum to Tim Tebow who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. And it's wilder to hope he sucks so they don't play him, after they are paying him $36m guaranteed.

One might infer you Sir! are a Raiders fan in disguise! Wanting the Broncos to fail like that!

When did I say anything about Tebow?

[Simple Jaded]

You still think they will trade up and get a QB or else take a QB at #5? Well, maybe. IF Elway is dumb enough to waste $36million, sure.

But, it will be the laziest way any man ever made $36m guaranteed in this world. Just sitting on his ass collecting $1,125,000 per game! That is the very definition of "good work, if you can get it."

Damn! I wish somebody would pay me 1 week worth of his salary to sit there on my ass and hold a clip-board! I can do that! And I'm available at the very reasonable price of $1.1m per week! I'll even give them a discount of $25,000 per game over what Keenum will charge them!
I think my point is obvious, CK isn’t the caliber of QB that changes draft plans when you’re within striking distance of legitimate QB prospects, regardless of how much money they gave him.

You can keep arguing about salary all you want, if this is how the Elway approaches the draft you’re both stupid.

And ya know what, the Jets aren’t buying this bullshit either, else they don’t feel the need to get in front of Denver. Especially in March, a month and a half from the draft.

[Cugel]

When did I say anything about Tebow?

Sorry, I got your post confused with Jaded's. Carry on. You were pointing out how Keenum is worse than Beelzebub's fiery demons from Hell?

[Simple Jaded]

It's wild to compare a good QB like Keenum to Tim Tebow who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. And it's wilder to hope he sucks so they don't play him, after they are paying him $36m guaranteed.

One might infer you Sir! are a Raiders fan in disguise! Wanting the Broncos to fail like that!

Well, both are backup QB’s.

[Simple Jaded]

Sorry, I got your post confused with Jaded's. Carry on. You were pointing out how Keenum is worse than Beelzebub's fiery demons from Hell?

I compared your argument to that of Tebowfags, because they’re the same. I didn’t compare the two QB’s until you asked for it.

[Cugel]

I think my point is obvious, CK isn’t the caliber of QB that changes draft plans when you’re within striking distance of legitimate QB prospects, regardless of how much money they gave him.

You can keep arguing about salary all you want, if this is how the Elway approaches the draft you’re both stupid.

And ya know what, the Jets aren’t buying this bullshit either, else they don’t feel the need to get in front of Denver. Especially in March, a month and a half from the draft.

They had no choice because even if Denver isn't taking a QB at #5 or trading up, the Bills sure as hell were trying and would have succeeded too if the Jets hadn't gotten in ahead of them. The Bills were outbid because, as the Colts GM stated, they didn't want to move all the way out of the top 10.

They want Chubb in fact, and thought they could get him at #6, but certainly not at #12. Well, it turns out the Giants are going to take him ahead of them, but then it still makes sense for them to trade down. They will still get a great player at #6 and they got 3 #2 picks. They need all the picks they can get because they suck almost everywhere.

The Jets have no QB who can start and the Broncos do. So, the Jets were much more desperate than Denver, and couldn't take the chance the Broncos might take their QB ahead of them, or even possibly move up to #3 and block them just the way they thought they had blockaded the Broncos and Bills (and they might very well still succeed in that there's no proof the Giants will trade out of their #2 pick.)

[Simple Jaded]

They had no choice because even if Denver isn't taking a QB at #5 or trading up, the Bills sure as hell were trying and would have succeeded too if the Jets hadn't gotten in ahead of them. The Bills were outbid because, as the Colts GM stated, they didn't want to move all the way out of the top 10.

They want Chubb in fact, and thought they could get him at #6, but certainly not at #12. Well, it turns out the Giants are going to take him ahead of them, but then it still makes sense for them to trade down. They will still get a great player at #6.
We’re not talking about the Bills, if Colts didn’t want to trade that far back the Bills are irrelevant.

[Cugel]

BTW: Just to illustrate the vast gulf between the QB situation for the Jets and Broncos, the Jets have only guaranteed $500,000 for Teddy Bridgewater. At that price they could stuff him down a mail-chute and not miss the money. That's absolute zero commitment.


The ex-Vikings quarterback will get just $500,000 in guaranteed money, according to multiple reports. That figure is his signing bonus. Bridgewater’s 2018 base salary is for $5 million, but that is not guaranteed, according to ESPN’s Dan Graziano. Bridgewater can also earn another $500,000 in workout bonuses plus an addition $9 million in incentives stemming from playing time, passing yards and touchdowns.

Well, he'll never in Hell see any of those incentives for yards, etc., etc. because he's not starting. He will get his $5m which is pure backup money - only if he's healthy enough and proves he's good enough to play. They could easily just cut him if he sucks bad enough.

That is the difference between what Bridgewater is being paid by the Jets and what the Broncos are paying Keenum. $36m guaranteed versus $500,000 guaranteed! That's why the Jets are moving up, drafting a QB and starting him, and the Broncos are not.

[Simple Jaded]

Whether or not the Broncos were/are stupid enough to go all in with CK the Jets weren’t buying it. Unless, perhaps, the Broncos were willing to trade back with the Bills, it makes sense for the Jets to jump ahead of Denver. But, in that scenario, why wouldn’t Denver just trade back with the Jets knowing the Colts won’t take a QB and the Browns won’t take 2 QB’s? Because, in the same scenario the Colts still won’t trade out of top 10.

[Simple Jaded]

BTW: Just to illustrate the vast gulf between the QB situation for the Jets and Broncos, the Jets have only guaranteed $500,000 for Teddy Bridgewater. At that price they could stuff him down a mail-chute and not miss the money. That's absolute zero commitment.


Well, he'll never in Hell see any of those incentives for yards, etc., etc. because he's not starting. He will get his $5m which is pure backup money - only if he's healthy enough and proves he's good enough to play. They could easily just cut him if he sucks bad enough.

That is the difference between what Bridgewater is being paid by the Jets and what the Broncos are paying Keenum. $36m guaranteed versus $500,000 guaranteed! That's why the Jets are moving up, drafting a QB and starting him, and the Broncos are not.

Bridgewater > Keenum.

The Jets are playing chess while the Broncos play checkers.

[Cugel]

We’re not talking about the Bills, if Colts didn’t want to trade that far back the Bills are irrelevant.

Were you dropped on your head as a child? The Bills need a QB and don't have one. They even let Tyrod Taylor go for some reason. Every analyst in the NFL has stated that they intend to draft a QB and they traded up to #12 so they could move more easily into the top 10 to do so.

They were in open negotiations with the Colts at #3 to move up ahead of the Jets and Broncos and grab a top 3 Qb. Only the Colts didn't want to move back to #12 because Chubb won't be available at #12. They preferred to move only as far back as #6 and said exactly that in their GM's presser.

If the Jets had been willing to be patient, and wait there at #6 for a Qb to fall to them, the Colts would have had to trade either with the Broncos at #5 or else trade down to #12 and take someone OTHER than Chubb. They need players more than they need Chubb, obviously.

They said publicly they wanted to trade back, but not so far that they dropped out of the top 10. Well, what team outside the top 10 was contacting them and trying to move up? The Bills, that's who.

They had to know it was possible the Giants would take Chubb, not a Qb. And now the Giants are doing exactly that (unless Barkley falls to them at #2, which they obviously do not believe will happen). So they were willing to move back and take their chances on Chubb. But, now they also made it easier for the Giants to take Chubb because the Giants could conceivably trade down with the Broncos and still get Chubb.

So, everything depends on whether Elway wants to move up or not. The Giants are already committed to Chubb by trading TPP.

[Poet]

So, is it still wild to hope that we don't start a QB if he proves he can't do it, Cugel?

[Simple Jaded]

Were you dropped on your head as a child? The Bills need a QB and don't have one. They even let Tyrod Taylor go for some reason. Every analyst in the NFL has stated that they intend to draft a QB and they traded up to #12 so they could move more easily into the top 10 to do so.

They were in open negotiations with the Colts at #3 to move up ahead of the Jets and Broncos and grab a top 3 Qb. Only the Colts didn't want to move back to #12 because Chubb won't be available at #12. They preferred to move only as far back as #6 and said exactly that in their GM's presser.

If the Jets had been willing to be patient, and wait there at #6 for a Qb to fall to them, the Colts would have had to trade either with the Broncos at #5 or else trade down to #12 and take someone OTHER than Chubb. They need players more than they need Chubb, obviously.

They said publicly they wanted to trade back, but not so far that they dropped out of the top 10. Well, what team outside the top 10 was contacting them and trying to move up? The Bills, that's who.

They had to know it was possible the Giants would take Chubb, not a Qb. And now the Giants are doing exactly that (unless Barkley falls to them at #2, which they obviously do not believe will happen). So they were willing to move back and take their chances on Chubb. But, now they also made it easier for the Giants to take Chubb because the Giants could conceivably trade down with the Broncos and still get Chubb.

So, everything depends on whether Elway wants to move up or not. The Giants are already committed to Chubb by trading TPP.
I already set you straight on this, the Colts didn’t want to trade with the Bills. According to your sources the Colts publicly admitted as much.

And the JPP trade means Chubb is a bigger possibility, it doesn’t mean they’re committed.

[Cugel]

Bridgewater > Keenum.

The Jets are playing chess while the Broncos play checkers.

Well, not one single GM in the NFL agrees with you, since nobody offered Bridgewater a chance to start. They are paying him cheap backup money ($6million). At most. He could get considerably less than this because his knee is spaghetti and nobody knows if he can play at all or not.

So, no, Bridgewater is NOT better than Keenum, and that statement is even more imbecilic than your previous ones!

[Simple Jaded]

So, is it still wild to hope that we don't start a QB if he proves he can't do it, Cugel?

Cugel is still busy connecting dots, please standby.

[Simple Jaded]

Well, not one single GM in the NFL agrees with you, since nobody offered Bridgewater a chance to start. They are paying him cheap backup money ($6million). At most. He could get considerably less than this because his knee is spaghetti and nobody knows if he can play at all or not.

So, no, Bridgewater is NOT better than Keenum, and that statement is even more imbecilic than your previous ones!

How the **** do you know what Gm’s Think?

And what does that even have to do with who is actually more talented?

[Poet]

Well, not one single GM in the NFL agrees with you, since nobody offered Bridgewater a chance to start. They are paying him cheap backup money ($6million). At most. He could get considerably less than this because his knee is spaghetti and nobody knows if he can play at all or not.

So, no, Bridgewater is NOT better than Keenum, and that statement is even more imbecilic than your previous ones!

So what a GM pays is indicative of a player's worth. By that logic, you surely must have wished for us to have signed Cousins.

[Simple Jaded]

So what a GM pays is indicative of a player's worth. By that logic, you surely must have wished for us to have signed Cousins.

Great point. Even more so Talent/skill, not just worth.

Cousins = GOAT.

[Cugel]

I already set you straight on this, the Colts didn’t want to trade with the Bills. According to your sources the Colts publicly admitted as much.

And the JPP trade means Chubb is a bigger possibility, it doesn’t mean they’re committed.

Apparently you didn't bother to read the sources I linked. The Giants wanted Darnold only they became so convinced the Browns are taking him at #1 that they moved on to Plan B, which is to draft Chubb. So, unless the Giants are totally wrong and the Browns do NOT take Sam Darnold like everybody expects, the Giants will take Chubb.

The only reason they would cut JPP and not draft his replacement is if their future franchise QB was available. Only they don't like any of the other QBs, just Darnold. And he's not available. The move to cut JPP is pretty safe though because nobody thinks the Browns will take Chubb #1. So, the Giants get their DE.

The Colts had a CHOICE. They said they "preferred" not to trade out of the top 10, not that they wouldn't do it if no other choice appeared. Ideally they trade back, get additional picks, and draft several players, including Chubb.

But, that was never going to happen no matter what they did if the Giants are committed to taking him. The Giants would only trade back if they could be sure to stay ahead of the Colts. So, they'd take Chubb at #2 if the Colts stuck at #3. Since the Colts moved back to #6 the Giants could move back as far as #5.

That was the ENTIRE POINT of my posting this thread. To point out that rather obvious point and permit intelligent discussion about whether the Broncos will trade up now to #2 or not.

I don't think so, but maybe Elway WILL do it. It's certainly possible, but a ginormous waste of money, just as I said.

They could have just signed Tyrod Taylor or AJ McCarron for a LOT less money if they intended to take a QB at #5 and play him immediately.

[Simple Jaded]

, and that statement is even more imbecilic than your previous ones!

Btw, this feels like a challenge.

[Simple Jaded]

Actually I didn’t read anything you posted.

I skimmed it a bit, though.

Btw, we’ve been saying all along that it’s a waste of money, apparently you’re not reading our pots either.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
So what a GM pays is indicative of a player's worth. By that logic, you surely must have wished for us to have signed Cousins.

Is everybody on these boards drunk off their asses tonight? What a GM pays a player determines whether he will play or not, not whether he's worth what they are paying him! Well, duh!

If they are paying him a boat-load of cash it will take quite a lot of sucking for that player not to play, because they naturally want to get their money's worth. Just as if you bought a really, really expensive shirt at the Cherry Creek Mall and then never wore it. Would you do that?

Well, maybe if somebody threw up on it repeatedly, but realistically, you would probably still just try and send it to the dry-cleaners and get the stain out. And that is exactly what the Broncos are committed to doing with Case Keenum.

If he sucks they will try and coach him up so that he plays better. They will keep doing that until he proves conclusively that he can't play.

And they are betting that he can, based on quite a lot of evidence from last season.

[Cugel]

BTW: I would have been perfectly happy seeing the Broncos sign Kirk Cousins, but not if paying him $28m a year would make the Broncos cut a bunch of other veteran players to pay him. That is called "robbing Peter to pay Paul." They might lose too much talent for it to be worth it, and they would not have been able to sign a FA veteran RT and pay him $10m a year.

And they clearly needed a RT BAD.

[Simple Jaded]

Also, I don’t think I’ve ever said they’d take a QB at 5 and start him immediately. Not since the CK signing. It’s possible though, I say a lot of shit.

In my defense, I’m the one that’s been driving the notion that you have to be patient with QB’s.

[Cugel]

Btw, this feels like a challenge.

I admit that is a pretty tough challenge. You might not be able to top your previous best. But, your posts in this thread do indicate you're on your best form tonight!

[Cugel]

Also, I don’t think I’ve ever said they’d take a QB at 5 and start him immediately. Not since the CK signing. It’s possible though, I say a lot of shit.

In my defense, I’m the one that’s been driving the notion that you have to be patient with QB’s.

They are being patient. They are going to draft a QB later in the first round or maybe 2nd round, and develop him for a couple of seasons behind Case Keenum. And if Keenum works out, they will keep that QB on the roster like they did Osweiler behind Manning.

Too bad if Keenum isn't like Manning. He's still good enough to start for the next 2 years in Elway's view. And the Broncos hope that Keenum will work out enough for them to sign him long term. And he just said he wants to stay long term too.

If it doesn't work out, then in 2020, just like they gave Trevor Siemian 2 years and then cut him, they will cut Keenum.

But, until then, he'll start.

[Simple Jaded]

5th overall, late 1st or early 2nd ... What the ******* difference?

I mean besides the talent level of the QB available. What’s the ******* difference?

[Poet]

Is everybody on these boards drunk off their asses tonight? What a GM pays a player determines whether he will play or not, not whether he's worth what they are paying him! Well, duh!

If they are paying him a boat-load of cash it will take quite a lot of sucking for that player not to play, because they naturally want to get their money's worth. Just as if you bought a really, really expensive shirt at the Cherry Creek Mall and then never wore it. Would you do that?

Well, maybe if somebody threw up on it repeatedly, but realistically, you would probably still just try and send it to the dry-cleaners and get the stain out. And that is exactly what the Broncos are committed to doing with Case Keenum.

If he sucks they will try and coach him up so that he plays better. They will keep doing that until he proves conclusively that he can't play.

And they are betting that he can, based on quite a lot of evidence from last season.

I took your logic and applied it, Cugel. You said "they're paying him cheap backup money," and from the context of your post it sure seemed like you were saying money = worth. That's not on me.

[Simple Jaded]

I admit that is a pretty tough challenge. You might not be able to top your previous best. But, your posts in this thread do indicate you're on your best form tonight!

Neighbor please!

I have yet begun to defile myself.

[Cugel]

I took your logic and applied it, Cugel. You said "they're paying him cheap backup money," and from the context of your post it sure seemed like you were saying money = worth. That's not on me.

"I just assumed you meant something that you didn't state, because reading comprehension. That's why."

Aren't you in law school right now? I hope you don't apply that kind of logic to the essay exams section of the bar exam. Man! :laugh:

[Poet]

"I just assumed you meant something that you didn't state, because reading comprehension. That's why."

Aren't you in law school right now? I hope you don't apply that kind of logic to the essay exams section of the bar exam. Man! :laugh:

I'm near the top of my class, earned a DOJ internship, etc. I took the words you said, in their context, and gave you a similar result. Oh, you disagree with the interpretation of the text? Yeah, that never happens in law, either. Scalia and Ginsburg never went back and forth over Originalism, for instance, or the definition of, let's say, the word "use." :lol:

[TXBRONC]

Apparently you didn't bother to read the sources I linked. The Giants wanted Darnold only they became so convinced the Browns are taking him at #1 that they moved on to Plan B, which is to draft Chubb. So, unless the Giants are totally wrong and the Browns do NOT take Sam Darnold like everybody expects, the Giants will take Chubb.

The only reason they would cut JPP and not draft his replacement is if their future franchise QB was available. Only they don't like any of the other QBs, just Darnold. And he's not available. The move to cut JPP is pretty safe though because nobody thinks the Browns will take Chubb #1. So, the Giants get their DE.

The Colts had a CHOICE. They said they "preferred" not to trade out of the top 10, not that they wouldn't do it if no other choice appeared. Ideally they trade back, get additional picks, and draft several players, including Chubb.

But, that was never going to happen no matter what they did if the Giants are committed to taking him. The Giants would only trade back if they could be sure to stay ahead of the Colts. So, they'd take Chubb at #2 if the Colts stuck at #3. Since the Colts moved back to #6 the Giants could move back as far as #5.

That was the ENTIRE POINT of my posting this thread. To point out that rather obvious point and permit intelligent discussion about whether the Broncos will trade up now to #2 or not.

I don't think so, but maybe Elway WILL do it. It's certainly possible, but a ginormous waste of money, just as I said.

They could have just signed Tyrod Taylor or AJ McCarron for a LOT less money if they intended to take a QB at #5 and play him immediately.

I've seen rumors that the Browns are interested Darnold but I've that they are interested in Allen as well. So unless the Browns have actually told the Giants we're taking Darnold then they (the Giants) are taking a very wild shot in the dark. Sure GMs panic at times but when you hold the number 2 pick in the draft there is no reason to move to plan B and that plan A isn't still an option. JPP wasn't cut he was traded, but I don't think that makes it a lock that they're taking Chubb with 2nd pick. Eli is 37 years old. He might have a couple more productive seasons in him but who knows?

Anyway look at the scenario you've presented means if everything else stays the same, two of top four quarterbacks are doing be available at five.

[TXBRONC]

Neighbor please!

I have yet begun to defile myself.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAqV-SoVVns

[Simple Jaded]

_u5A0H6PkqE

[Cugel]

Anyway look at the scenario you've presented means if everything else stays the same, two of top four quarterbacks are doing be available at five.

And those two will apparently be Mayfield and Rosen. Darnold and Allen are the top 2 now.

[TXBRONC]

And those two will apparently be Mayfield and Rosen. Darnold and Allen are the top 2 now.

I think it's but it's not written in stone.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Nobody has any clue how any of these teams rank the 4 QBs. Nobody. But it's cute that they think they do.

[TXBRONC]

Nobody has any clue how any of these teams rank the 4 QBs. Nobody. But it's cute that they think they do.

I agree, there are a lot of possibilities because we don't know how those in front of the Broncos feel about these quarterback. Heck, we don't even know how Denver has them ranked. For all we know they could think Rosen is a concussion prone double douche bag.