Jets Trade Up to #3 To Get Ahead Of The Broncos!

[Cugel]

Breaking News from NFL Network.com "Jets acquire #3 overall pick in the 2018 draft from the Colts (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000921905/article/jets-acquire-no-3-overall-pick-of-2018-draft-from-colts). Jets give up #6, #39, #49 in this year's draft, and the Jets 2019 second round pick to move up from #6 to #3."

This is a move for the Jets to move up ahead of the Broncos. The Jets were reportedly wanting the same QBs (Rosen & Mayfield) that the Broncos reportedly wanted. So, they move up to get their own choice. That or, they are convinced that either the Giants or Browns will not trade their picks or that either or both will not take a QB. Or, they are sure that the Giants and Jets won't take the QB they want.

Either way, the Broncos would now be screwed if they wanted the same QB as the Jets. They would either have to pay a HUGE price to move up to #2 or else take the Jets' leavings!

I'd say this ups the odds the Broncos do NOT select a QB at #5!

[Poet]

It's a day.

[Timmy!]

Thanks dmac.

[UnderArmour]

Well yeah, because it ups the odds of the top 4 QBs all being gone at 5. If QBs go 1-4, which is now extremely likely, Denver gets an LT/Barry Sanders talent. If a QB that we don't want lasts, Buffalo, Arizona, and Miami will be on the phone with a king's ransom. It will be really hard for Elway to screw this up.

[TXBRONC]

Breaking News from NFL Network.com "Jets acquire #3 overall pick in the 2018 draft from the Colts (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000921905/article/jets-acquire-no-3-overall-pick-of-2018-draft-from-colts). Jets give up #6, #39, #49 in this year's draft, and the Jets 2019 second round pick to move up from #6 to #3."

This is a move for the Jets to move up ahead of the Broncos. The Jets were reportedly wanting the same QBs (Rosen & Mayfield) that the Broncos reportedly wanted. So, they move up to get their own choice. That or, they are convinced that either the Giants or Browns will not trade their picks or that either or both will not take a QB. Or, they are sure that the Giants and Jets won't take the QB they want.

Either way, the Broncos would now be screwed if they wanted the same QB as the Jets. They would either have to pay a HUGE price to move up to #2 or else take the Jets' leavings!

I'd say this ups the odds the Broncos do NOT select a QB at #5!

I wouldn't say screwed, it could keep them from getting a quarterback in the top five but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Btw the why would they have to move to number two? They could also trade places with Browns and still assure themselves of getting a quarterback, if that is what they want to do.

[Cugel]

Well yeah, because it ups the odds of the top 4 QBs all being gone at 5. If QBs go 1-4, which is now extremely likely, Denver gets an LT/Barry Sanders talent. If a QB that we don't want lasts, Buffalo, Arizona, and Miami will be on the phone with a king's ransom. It will be really hard for Elway to screw this up.

Oh, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. I think Elway probably swore a blue streak when he heard the news, but it was predictable if the rumors that the Jets liked the same 2 QBs the Broncos did were true. The question was whether the Browns, Giants or Colts would part with their picks.

The Browns were always supposed to be willing to part with their #4 pick, and the Colts were obviously willing to trade back from #3 because they didn't need a QB. But, this means that if Elway really wanted Josh Rosen, say and the Jets really wanted him too, the Jets grab him at #3.

That might mean that the QB Elway targeted will be long gone by #5. And he CAN'T move up now because #3 was the obvious spot for the Broncos to move to without giving up too much.

That's because at least 1 of the top 2 is expected to consider taking Chubb or Barkley. That would leave two of three of Darnold, Allen or Mayfield on the board at #4. It also means the Broncos probably cannot draft Josh Rosen. (Assuming the rumors are true that said the Jets and Broncos both wanted him).

Of course the Broncos could be good with drafting Baker Mayfield, but he is likely to want to start soon, and the Broncos are starting Keenum this year. They are paying him way too much to sit on the bench!

[Cugel]

My belief right now is that it's either draft Josh Allen or Chubb or Barkley or Nelson at #5. Assuming they don't trade back.

[UnderArmour]

My belief right now is that it's either draft Josh Allen or Chubb or Barkley or Nelson at #5. Assuming they don't trade back.
Chubb has a motor, don't get me wrong, but the guy is not a freak talent like a Miller, Clowney, or Garrett. Nelson (As RT) is the better bet to maximize the pick value if Barkley is gone and we go non QB. IMO, all 4 QBs are worthy of top 5 picks, with Mayfield highest risk. All will sit 2 games minimum, so really not end of world to take a guy who isn't ready.

[topscribe]

Breaking News from NFL Network.com "Jets acquire #3 overall pick in the 2018 draft from the Colts (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000921905/article/jets-acquire-no-3-overall-pick-of-2018-draft-from-colts). Jets give up #6, #39, #49 in this year's draft, and the Jets 2019 second round pick to move up from #6 to #3."

This is a move for the Jets to move up ahead of the Broncos. The Jets were reportedly wanting the same QBs (Rosen & Mayfield) that the Broncos reportedly wanted. So, they move up to get their own choice. That or, they are convinced that either the Giants or Browns will not trade their picks or that either or both will not take a QB. Or, they are sure that the Giants and Jets won't take the QB they want.

Either way, the Broncos would now be screwed if they wanted the same QB as the Jets. They would either have to pay a HUGE price to move up to #2 or else take the Jets' leavings!

I'd say this ups the odds the Broncos do NOT select a QB at #5!
I think the Jets may have wasted some draft capital. No one knows whether the Broncos are
even interested in a QB now, much less the Jets. The Broncos may be giving either a little
wry grin or a big yawn at that . . .

[topscribe]

Chubb has a motor, don't get me wrong, but the guy is not a freak talent like a Miller, Clowney, or Garrett. Nelson (As RT) is the better bet to maximize the pick value if Barkley is gone and we go non QB. IMO, all 4 QBs are worthy of top 5 picks, with Mayfield highest risk. All will sit 2 games minimum, so really not end of world to take a guy who isn't ready.
I have to agree. I may be wrong, but I personally don't see Chubb as a top five after watching some of his action.

[DenBronx]

I really dont think the Broncos were even planning on taking a QB at 5. I believe they just wanted everyone to think that they were. This almost guarantees Nelson or Barkley to be there at 5, especially if the Giants trade down too. If that happens then we will do nothing, we will stay and take BPA.

[Cugel]

I really dont think the Broncos were even planning on taking a QB at 5. I believe they just wanted everyone to think that they were. This almost guarantees Nelson or Barkley to be there at 5, especially if the Giants trade down too. If that happens then we will do nothing, we will stay and take BPA.

That would be fine with me, but a lot of people will lose their minds. Particularly the "Boomer Sooners". Yawn. :coffee:

[Magnificent Seven]

It looks like Keenum is our new Broncos starting QB. I think Broncos will go for OT or OG in the 1st round. I don't think they will go for QB. Just like DenBronx said.

2018's QB Depth Chart.

1. Keenum

2. Lynch

3. Kelly

[Traveler]

It looks like Keenum is our new Broncos starting QB. I think Broncos will go for OT or OG in the 1st round. I don't think they will go for QB. Just like DenBronx said.

2018's QB Depth Chart.

1. Keenum

2. Lynch

3. Kelly

I don't think they will select an OT in the 1st round. Maybe OG.
Whatever direction they go , I will say this is the most important draft for Elway.
He has to get this right or his days as a GM may be numbered.

[DenBronx]

Our pick is looking more and more like Nelson and drafting a QB later. I can live with that. Are these guys any better than Keenum at this stage of his career? Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen are intriguing but HUGE risks. Why not just build around Keenum and lets get this party started?

Where would Chad Kelly fall in this draft? I see him beating out Lynch for the #2. Had we signed Kirk Cousins no one would consider us taking a QB at 5. How much of a drop off from Cousins to Keenum is there? Not much and Keenum actually fits our style better right? Lets put some more protection and weapons around him and still have a manageable cap shall we?

We can then re-evaluate at the end of the year.

[Ziggy]

The Jets trading up was more about jumping ahead of the Bills than the Broncos. Buffalo was trying hard to get that pick as well.

[UnderArmour]

Our pick is looking more and more like Nelson and drafting a QB later. I can live with that. Are these guys any better than Keenum at this stage of his career? Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen are intriguing but HUGE risks. Why not just build around Keenum and lets get this party started?

Where would Chad Kelly fall in this draft? I see him beating out Lynch for the #2. Had we signed Kirk Cousins no one would consider us taking a QB at 5. How much of a drop off from Cousins to Keenum is there? Not much and Keenum actually fits our style better right? Lets put some more protection and weapons around him and still have a manageable cap shall we?

We can then re-evaluate at the end of the year.

I'm not a scout, but Lamar Jackson is the only other QB prospect that makes me go "Wow." in this draft. This guy is every bit as athletic as a Watson, Vick, RG3, or Wilson. If Darnold and Rosen returned to school, Josh Allen would be #1, and we'd be having a conversation about whether or not Lamar Jackson is better than Baker Mayfield. It's entirely possible, even probable, that there are teams that have Lamar Jackson rated above members of the consensus top 4 QBs. Unfortunately for him, due to RG3's failure to develop into a pocket passer and Kaepernick's failure to develop into a franchise QB(nothing to do with kneeling), Lamar Jackson fell out of the top 5 pick conversation.

With that said, in any scenario where Elway passes on a QB at 5, it means not taking a QB in this draft. Lamar Jackson will be a top 15 pick due to scarcity, and Miami, Arizona, and Buffalo all without a clear long-term answer.

[Northman]

I'm not a scout, but Lamar Jackson is the only other QB prospect that makes me go "Wow." in this draft. This guy is every bit as athletic as a Watson, Vick, RG3, or Wilson. If Darnold and Rosen returned to school, Josh Allen would be #1, and we'd be having a conversation about whether or not Lamar Jackson is better than Baker Mayfield. It's entirely possible, even probable, that there are teams that have Lamar Jackson rated above members of the consensus top 4 QBs. Unfortunately for him, due to RG3's failure to develop into a pocket passer and Kaepernick's failure to develop into a franchise QB(nothing to do with kneeling), Lamar Jackson fell out of the top 5 pick conversation.

With that said, in any scenario where Elway passes on a QB at 5, it means not taking a QB in this draft. Lamar Jackson will be a top 15 pick due to scarcity, and Miami, Arizona, and Buffalo all without a clear long-term answer.

Dont be fooled UA, Jackson is not in the same class as Watson. He's athletic but thats about where it ends.

[Shazam!]

I'm not a scout, but Lamar Jackson is the only other QB prospect that makes me go "Wow." in this draft. This guy is every bit as athletic as a Watson, Vick, RG3, or Wilson. If Darnold and Rosen returned to school, Josh Allen would be #1, and we'd be having a conversation about whether or not Lamar Jackson is better than Baker Mayfield. It's entirely possible, even probable, that there are teams that have Lamar Jackson rated above members of the consensus top 4 QBs. Unfortunately for him, due to RG3's failure to develop into a pocket passer and Kaepernick's failure to develop into a franchise QB(nothing to do with kneeling), Lamar Jackson fell out of the top 5 pick conversation.

With that said, in any scenario where Elway passes on a QB at 5, it means not taking a QB in this draft. Lamar Jackson will be a top 15 pick due to scarcity, and Miami, Arizona, and Buffalo all without a clear long-term answer.

Dont be fooled UA, Jackson is not in the same class as Watson. He's athletic but thats about where it ends.

I am with this. Yet can always take a chance with Rudolph if hes available in 2nd rd. Broncos are in a win now approach as opposed to the NYJ.

[Northman]

I am with this. Yet can always take a chance with Rudolph if hes available in 2nd rd. Broncos are in a win now approach as opposed to the NYJ.

I have no problem with Rudolph or Falk. Both those guys are actually more accurate passers than Jackson, Allen, and even Mayfield. I cant remember what thread it was in but i posted the rankings for their respective accuracy levels in college last year and was quite surprised by what i saw. Jackson to me will eventually fall into the same trap that Kaep, Vick, and Newton have/had faced where their college game does not translate long term at the NFL level. The story is still out on Watson because he has just played a few games for one year but you could tell that he thinks pass first (much like Russell Wilson) before opting to run the ball. And i truly believe that is the kind of QB you have to be at the professional level. Elway, S. Young, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, etc have all proven that having mobility is great but you have to know when and where to utilize it and not use it as a crutch. In the end you still need to be able to pass the ball with a high percentage of accuracy to succeed in the NFL. Cam tries to do that but his inconsistency with accuracy is what eventually gets him into trouble. Its the same thing that became an issue for Tebow as well. If you are going to be a hybrid QB than you need to be able to adapt at the pro level where passing/accuracy is the first priority. The mobility is just an added bonus for those types of players but i see many hybrids come into the NFL and ultimately fail because they think they can run it like they did in college. They may have a handful of good games doing that but there is no longevity to it especially when their bodies get banged up after a couple of years.

[topscribe]

I have no problem with Rudolph or Falk. Both those guys are actually more accurate passers than Jackson, Allen, and even Mayfield. I cant remember what thread it was in but i posted the rankings for their respective accuracy levels in college last year and was quite surprised by what i saw. Jackson to me will eventually fall into the same trap that Kaep, Vick, and Newton have/had faced where their college game does not translate long term at the NFL level. The story is still out on Watson because he has just played a few games for one year but you could tell that he thinks pass first (much like Russell Wilson) before opting to run the ball. And i truly believe that is the kind of QB you have to be at the professional level. Elway, S. Young, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, etc have all proven that having mobility is great but you have to know when and where to utilize it and not use it as a crutch. In the end you still need to be able to pass the ball with a high percentage of accuracy to succeed in the NFL. Cam tries to do that but his inconsistency with accuracy is what eventually gets him into trouble. Its the same thing that became an issue for Tebow as well. If you are going to be a hybrid QB than you need to be able to adapt at the pro level where passing/accuracy is the first priority. The mobility is just an added bonus for those types of players but i see many hybrids come into the NFL and ultimately fail because they think they can run it like they did in college. They may have a handful of good games doing that but there is no longevity to it especially when their bodies get banged up after a couple of years.
That is a thought. I'm sure the Broncos could get either of those two (Rudolph or Falk) without
spending their #5. Now that they have Keenum and can groom someone behind him, I could
see their getting one of them and having him compete with Paxton behind Keenum for a couple
years.

[Ziggy]

Rudolph is going in the first.

[topscribe]

Rudolph is going in the first.
We'll see. Somebody will likely slide. They usually do.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I like Rudolph over Falk, but Rudolph is PL clone as far as time needed to develop. Falk just tosses too many weak balls into coverage. He doesn't have many INTs but I've also rarely seen a QB have as many dropped.

But I actually like White of WKU if we go for a mid rounder. Aside from taking some unnecessary sacks, I don't see many weaknesses. Sign me up in round 3.

[Ziggy]

I like Rudolph over Falk, but Rudolph is PL clone as far as time needed to develop. Falk just tosses too many weak balls into coverage. He doesn't have many INTs but I've also rarely seen a QB have as many dropped.

But I actually like White of WKU if we go for a mid rounder. Aside from taking some unnecessary sacks, I don't see many weaknesses. Sign me up in round 3.

That's why I think he doesn't get past the Chargers, Saints and Steelers. All 3 have QB in place now while he develops. Say what you want about Allen and Rosen. I think Rudolph is the best deep ball thrower in this draft.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

That's why I think he doesn't get past the Chargers, Saints and Steelers. All 3 have QB in place now while he develops. Say what you want about Allen and Rosen. I think Rudolph is the best deep ball thrower in this draft.

best deep ball is between he and Darnold. I saw that dude drop some dimes. But White isn't far off. This is what I love about White...

1-Didn't play football til senior year in HS. (Baseball player) Still got to division 1 UCF.
2-Played in 3 different systems and has 2 years legit pro style experience. Transferred after new UCF coach brought the read option crap.
3-Can make all the thows and read defenses well. Smart kid.

Only 2 negatives I see anywhere for this kid are that he sometimes takes sacks he shouldn't and for some reason he struggles with leading WRs on slants.

[Poet]

I'd like to have your take on this, boys. https://www.ndtscouting.com/ledyard-deep-ball-accuracy-josh-rosen-best-bunch/

[aberdien]

I wouldn't mind Lamar Jackson if he fell to us in the second. Which he won't. But it would be fun.

[Nomad]

I'd like to have your take on this, boys. https://www.ndtscouting.com/ledyard-deep-ball-accuracy-josh-rosen-best-bunch/

Rosen lost that game against Texas A&M. That is all.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'd like to have your take on this, boys. https://www.ndtscouting.com/ledyard-deep-ball-accuracy-josh-rosen-best-bunch/

The grammar was poor. Is that what you wanted to know?

[Poet]

I hate all of you.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

My work here is done. See ya in another 2 years.

[Northman]

Rosen lost that game against Texas A&M. That is all.

Em, no he didnt.

[chazoe60]

I wouldn't mind Lamar Jackson if he fell to us in the second. Which he won't. But it would be fun.

Yeah, inaccurate QBs are just so much fun.

[aberdien]

Yeah, inaccurate QBs are just so much fun.

They are if they can run!

[Nomad]

Em, no he didnt.

That wasn't the game where UCLA lost in OT?

[topscribe]

They are if they can run!
Yeah, Tebow was a lot of fun. Especially when he would throw a screen pass into the upper deck . . .

[Northman]

That wasn't the game where UCLA lost in OT?

No, UCLA won in OT. They were trailing big in the game and Rosen lead them to a comeback.

https://www.google.com/search?q=UCLA%20and%20Texas%20A&M%202017&ufsmps=1&gws_rd=cr

[Cugel]

The Jets trading up was more about jumping ahead of the Bills than the Broncos. Buffalo was trying hard to get that pick as well.

There were three teams competing to draft QBs, but they all wanted the same guys! Everybody who needs a QB knows that the Browns and Giants also both need QBs. And, although those teams are actively talking, nobody has been willing so far to pay the price to move up to #2 or #1.

In fact, history would tell us that it's rare for a trade at #2 or #1 even happens. The Eagles moved up with Cleveland to #2 to get Wentz, but that's an exception. Most of the time the price is too steep and the top 2 teams find no trade partner, or decide that they want a certain guy who won't be there if they trade back.

Is that generational player in this draft Barkley? Is he the next Edgerrin James? If so, then the Browns take him #1. But, if you think he's just a great RB, but not a sure-fire HOF, then maybe they take a QB #1.

Either way, 3 of the top 4 QBs will be off the boards at #5. So, unless Elway is happy taking the leavings - ie taking "Mr. Whoever is left" then the Broncos are not taking a Qb at #5.

Because the way this draft is shaping up, it is probably Darnold #1, Rosen #2 and Mayfield #3 to the Jets. Why else did they get Teddy Bridgewater? I mean they are not even disguising it at this point.

Mayfield just has to be their guy. Bridgewater is the same type of mobile QB who can excel in a spread system is he not? If you were the Jets, doesn't it make total sense to draft Mayfield now they have Bridgewater and let Mayfield learn from the veteran?

You don't draft Baker Mayfield and then expect him to be OK sitting on the bench for 2 seasons behind some veteran. That's just not his style. He will immediately start pushing to become the starting QB from day 1.

I think you'd have a problem sitting him behind Keenum for any length of time, but in New York will Bridgewater be healthy? And what chance does Josh McCown have of beating him out? It's just a much better fit.

[Cugel]

Yeah, Tebow was a lot of fun. Especially when he would throw a screen pass into the upper deck . . .

What was even funnier was when Peyton Manning deliberately threw over the heads of some reporters standing on the sidelines one day in August after said reporters had called Peyton's passes "wobblers." After he whistled a pass out of bounds right at a bunch of reporters he called over to them "watch out! Some of those wobblers can still hurt!" :laugh:

[Cugel]

Think about this guys:

#1 There is just NO WAY that Cleveland could have told the Jets what they are doing at #1. They could take a QB. They could take Sequon Barkley or Chubb. But, the Jets have to assume the worst case scenario, which is that the Browns take a QB #1 overall.

Similarly, the Giants might take Cubb or Barkley at #2, but the Jets have to assume they won't; that they will instead take a QB #2. That takes two QBs off the boards.

The Jets obviously have a plan and that plan must be to draft a QB at #3. They would never give up THREE #2 picks to move up 3 spots to do anything else.

So, since the Giants and Browns won't tell anybody what their plans are and both could logically refuse to trade their picks and take QBs, the Jets must logically be happy with the #3 QB off the board. Or they must have a pretty good idea that either the Giants or Browns want a Qb they do not want, so their guy will still be on the board at #3.

IF they were not certain of this, they would have made the deal only finalized on draft day, on the contingency that their guy is available at #3. That's how a lot of trades happen. The teams talk, and a deal is worked out, but the deal isn't final until the first team is on the clock on draft day and the second team's player choice is available.

Either way, this means that THREE QBs should be off the boards by #4. Either the Browns take one at #1 or at #4 but not both, so only 3 QBs can be gone by #5 when the Broncos are on the boards.

So, either Elway is happy with the Jets leavings, or else he'll take another player at #5 or trade back.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Are you arguing with yourself?

[aberdien]

Yeah, Tebow was a lot of fun. Especially when he would throw a screen pass into the upper deck . . .

He was fun!

If we're gonna have to suffer for a year with a lame duck head coach, let's at least get some excitement out of it.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He was fun!

If we're gonna have to suffer for a year with a lame duck head coach, let's at least get some excitement out of it.

Preferably not the 20 interceptions type of excitement we saw last year

[TXBRONC]

I really dont think the Broncos were even planning on taking a QB at 5. I believe they just wanted everyone to think that they were. This almost guarantees Nelson or Barkley to be there at 5, especially if the Giants trade down too. If that happens then we will do nothing, we will stay and take BPA.

Barkley isn't going to be there five.

[TXBRONC]

Think about this guys:

#1 There is just NO WAY that Cleveland could have told the Jets what they are doing at #1. They could take a QB. They could take Sequon Barkley or Chubb. But, the Jets have to assume the worst case scenario, which is that the Browns take a QB #1 overall.

Similarly, the Giants might take Cubb or Barkley at #2, but the Jets have to assume they won't; that they will instead take a QB #2. That takes two QBs off the boards.

The Jets obviously have a plan and that plan must be to draft a QB at #3. They would never give up THREE #2 picks to move up 3 spots to do anything else.

So, since the Giants and Browns won't tell anybody what their plans are and both could logically refuse to trade their picks and take QBs, the Jets must logically be happy with the #3 QB off the board. Or they must have a pretty good idea that either the Giants or Browns want a Qb they do not want, so their guy will still be on the board at #3.

IF they were not certain of this, they would have made the deal only finalized on draft day, on the contingency that their guy is available at #3. That's how a lot of trades happen. The teams talk, and a deal is worked out, but the deal isn't final until the first team is on the clock on draft day and the second team's player choice is available.

Either way, this means that THREE QBs should be off the boards by #4. Either the Browns take one at #1 or at #4 but not both, so only 3 QBs can be gone by #5 when the Broncos are on the boards.

So, either Elway is happy with the Jets leavings, or else he'll take another player at #5 or trade back.

I don't know Cug, the Browns have the number one overall pick in the draft they don't need to hide anything. Same with Giants since the hold the second overall pick in the draft.

[UnderArmour]

Barkley isn't going to be there five.

It's a realistic possibility. If the Jets gave up 3 2nd round picks to go up 3 slots, then Buffalo, Arizona, or Miami might plot to do the same thing depending on which QB falls to 4.

[Simple Jaded]

You guys can probably forget about Barkley, if Kubiak has as much sway as it appears this is not a realistic possibility.

[topscribe]

You guys can probably forget about Barkley, if Kubiak has as much sway as it appears this is not a realistic possibility.
With Cleveland having two selections in the top five, I really expect Barkley to be gone.

[Shazam!]

If Barkley is gone, Broncos may still have a shot at Mayfield. I don't see Darnold, Allen or Rosen going behind him.

[Simple Jaded]

By the way, maybe the Jets aren’t buying this notion that Denver doesn’t need a QB. You could make that argument with this trade.

I’ll let CK fans make the obvious counter argument.

[Shazam!]

Elway and Co. may believe they have their young guy with Chad Kelly? Unless Lynch is out, they wont keep all the current QBs if they Draft another.

[DenBronx]

By the way, maybe the Jets aren’t buying this notion that Denver doesn’t need a QB. You could make that argument with this trade.

I’ll let CK fans make the obvious counter argument.

Case Keenum or Chad Kelly fans? Both CK.

[TXBRONC]

It's a realistic possibility. If the Jets gave up 3 2nd round picks to go up 3 slots, then Buffalo, Arizona, or Miami might plot to do the same thing depending on which QB falls to 4.

I don't think so, it sounds like you're assuming that Cleveland is just waiting for the right offer to move out of the number four slot. They have a chance to get two difference makers at very top of draft I kind of doubt they want to do that.

[Cugel]

I don't know Cug, the Browns have the number one overall pick in the draft they don't need to hide anything. Same with Giants since the hold the second overall pick in the draft.

Sure they do if they want to force some team to trade with them! If everybody knows who they will take, nobody will trade with them. And they want some team to pay them a ridiculous price to move up to the #1 spot, like multiple #1 picks and a player or something.

It's not likely, but it could happen.

Otherwise, why have they not announced who they are taking? The Panthers basically did this with Cam Newton. They told everybody who asked before the Draft "Cam is our guy. We're excited about getting him" and they actually got rather shirty about other teams calling them and asking about trading for their pick. They told everybody "no way" they were trading down and didn't even want to discuss offers. They said this publicly in a rather mocking way about teams trying to call them and talk trade.

As for the Giants, they have to be careful to hide their intentions both because of other teams and because Cleveland might target their guy! And it's a more realistic possibility some team would give up a boatload of picks to move up to #2.

Why else has Cleveland not announced who they are taking already? They probably know who they like at #1 even if they aren't telling anyone. Teams are paranoid and never want to tell anything, like Belichick's press conferences "he has a lower body injury."

Well everybody saw it was a knee, so why not admit it? "No comment." That's just "the Patriot way" lying and covering up everything and never admitting anything. Every team does that instinctively most of the time, the Patriots just elevated it to an art form.

[Cugel]

I don't think so, it sounds like you're assuming that Cleveland is just waiting for the right offer to move out of the number four slot. They have a chance to get two difference makers at very top of draft I kind of doubt they want to do that.

That depends on the compensation. They will draft a QB with one of their picks, and probably the #1 pick because that makes most sense. But, they aren't a QB away from competing in their division, they are 8-10 starters away. They need LOTs of new starters. So, sure they would like to trade one of their 2 top picks depending on who was available. They publicly said they are "open for business." Giants the same.

No trade is likely of course because teams are reluctant to pay that much to move up to #1 or #2 overall. Such trades rarely happen. But, if someone is willing to offer 2 #1s and a #2 or something like that to move up 4 spots? Sure!

The Colts, who have basically the same lack of talent on their roster as the Giants just traded their #3 pick to move back to #6 and get THREE #2 picks. That's ideal for them! They didn't need a QB and now will add further impact players if they draft well.

[Cugel]

Adam Schefter on ESPN: "Jets box out Bills in quarterback race by trading up to No. 3 (http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/31448/jets-box-out-bills-in-quarterback-race-by-trading-up-to-no-3)" I think there's a realistic chance, maybe even a likely chance that we are going to see QBs go 1, 2, 3. I've said all along that a QB is going to go #1, and the fact that the Jets were willing to trade three #2 picks to move up three spots tells you that they want a QB. That means the Giants can either take a QB at #2 or auction off that pick to the highest bidder for a team like the Buffalo Bills or Arizona Cardinals that wants to trade up in the draft.

But, you see the enormous value that teams place on a QB, and this has enormous ramifications for the entire draft.

Start with the Browns. People were talking about the notion of their taking Barkley at #1 which I never thought was realistic, they can now take a QB at #1 and in all probability come back and take Sequon Barkley at #4.

So, probably that means Sam Darnold at #1 and Josh Rosen at #2 or else Josh Rosen #1 and Sam Darnold #2."

Hard to argue with Adam Schefter here. This is what everybody has been saying for months: Darnold #1 to the Browns, Rosen #2 to the Giants and neither team trades their picks.

The Jets then take either Josh Allen or Mayfield at #3 (I still think it's Mayfield due to the Teddy Bridgewater signing). They can start Mayfield in 2018, but Josh Allen might require a year or 2 to develop.

Either way, Elway has to decide whether he wants to trade up to #2 to grab a QB or else wait at #5 and take the 2nd best Non-QB off the board, which would probably be Chubb.

Since Chubb is an outside pass-rusher maybe they don't want him. Then it would be either Nelson or Minkah Fitzpatrick or some other guy at #5. Or, they could take Josh Allen or Mayfield which would mean that QBs went 1, 2, 3, and 5!

Hard to imagine that happening, but it could.

[Simple Jaded]

Case Keenum or Chad Kelly fans? Both CK.

Either/or

[Simple Jaded]

Elway and Co. may believe they have their young guy with Chad Kelly? Unless Lynch is out, they wont keep all the current QBs if they Draft another.

I would keep all 4, it’s been done and the position need warrants it.

[Poet]

Ugh.

[FanInAZ]

Case Keenum or Chad Kelly fans? Both CK.

Considering that the Kelly Fan Club probably has no more the 3 or 4 members in it, and Keenum has plenty of actual game film to analyse, the Keenum Fan Club is most likely to attempt such an argument.

[Elevation inc]

I am a big Kelly fan. If he is focused on football that is a win for Denver and it will show this upcoming minicamp and TC. I pretty sure he is gonna push Paxton lynch to number 3 or even off the team. However because he has had mentality and focus issues in the past its still a wildcard.

[Cugel]

According to Cecil Lammey, Josh Rosen is sliding out of the top 5 because of character concerns, and injury concerns (multiple concussions, etc.). If this is true then the Jets trade sets up the following scenario:

#1 Cleveland now has to take a QB at #1. They would like to take Barkley #1 and a QB at #4, but the Jets move up means they likely can't get both. If they draft Barkley at #1 then, since Barkley is off the boards, the Giants take a QB, probably Sam Darnold at #2, then the Jets take Mayfield or Allen at #3 and the Browns are left with the other QB at #4. This would be like their trading down from #2 to give the Eagles Carson Wentz. Didn't go well, and their GM got fired. Only if they are happy taking any of 3 QBs and don't have a strong preference can they take Barkley #1.

Adam Schefter for this reason has insisted all along that he doesn't think it likely they take Barkley #1.

So, the Browns have to take their QB at #1. The Giants probably take Barkley at #2. The Jets at #3 take Mayfield or Allen leaving one of the top 3 QBs left.

The Browns can either take the best offensive player on the boards (G Quenton Nelson) or try and trade down from #4 to acquire more picks. If they trade, a team (Bills, Cardinals, Broncos) moves up to #4 and gets whoever is left (Mayfield or Allen).

IF the Broncos stand pat at #5 they would either have to draft Rosen, or else take whoever fell, which in this case would be a defensive player: Chubb or Minkah Fitzpatrick.

It would be tough in this scenario for Denver to find a trade partner to move down, since nobody wants Rosen at #5 and the other 3 Qbs are all off the boards by #4.

So, if this story is true: Rosen sliding due to character & off-field concerns, then that pretty much screws the Broncos. They desperately need either a future franchise QB or a stud OFFENSIVE player at #5, but in this (likely) scenario none is available and unless somebody wants Rosen at #5 they can't trade back.

We don't know that Elway doesn't want Rosen, but he has intensively scouted Mayfield, Darnold and Allen and the Jets were so worried the Broncos would take Allen or Mayfield ahead of them that they traded up to #3 and gave up 3 #2 picks to move up 3 spots. (THis is according to Cecil Lammey whose "sources" tell him that it was concern that the Broncos would take a QB at #5 that drove the Jets to move up to #3), so if his "sources" are right. . . )

They can't have been worried about Cleveland taking their QB at #4 because the Browns - if the Jets didn't trade up, might be able to take Barkley #1 and still get their QB at #4 because the Colts at #3 didin't need a QB. But, of course, the Jets do, so their guy could be off the boards at #4.

[BroncoJoe]

Has Cecil Lammey ever been right?

[DenBronx]

Has Cecil Lammey ever been right?


No, because the Broncos usually do the opposite which is why our drafts suck.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

The concussion thing is real. There are quite a fee pundits who feel the concussion history(at least 2 already) makes him too high of a risk.

The character thing is brash personality and arrogance. Not necessarily a deal breaker IMO.

[BroncoJoe]

The concussion thing is real. There are quite a fee pundits who feel the concussion history(at least 2 already) makes him too high of a risk.

The character thing is brash personality and arrogance. Not necessarily a deal breaker IMO.

I remember when we first all migrated here from the freak, and I called you SmilinAss. Got a CYP.

It took these folks a while to get used to us freaks.

[Simple Jaded]

So, on Lammey’s authority I say they should trade down with Buffalo, 12 and 23, take Nelson at 12 and then Rosen ... in the 5th round.

[Elevation inc]

Jay cutler and Rosen have very similar personalities FWIW....Just putting that out there

[Cugel]

Has Cecil Lammey ever been right?

He's usually right. About this, I don't know any better than you. It could easily be Josh Allen the Jets are targeting. Either way, it's likely that Josh Rosen is the only QB of the top 4 on the board at #5.

Sam Darnold #1 to the Browns.
Barkley #2 to the Giants
Baker Mayfield #3 to the Jets
Browns trade out of #4 to a team that wants to trade up and grab Josh Allen.

The problem for the Broncos is this: If they trade up for Allen they give up a couple of #2 picks - and then they can't significantly strengthen their OL or their overall roster. The defense continues to get weaker and weaker, they still don't have a TE or a Slot WR or any WR at all behind DT or Sanders, or a RT, or a RG or an ILB who can cover TEs or a penetrating DT or a CB to replace Talib.

And that's just starters, they also don't have quality backups at any of these positions so that if their inadequate starters at any of them are hurt, they have ZERO depth.

Frankly, I don't see what good even a Tom Brady level QB would do them this season.

[Cugel]

Jay cutler and Rosen have very similar personalities FWIW....Just putting that out there

I don't buy that one. Apparently some teams are leery of drafting Rosen in the top 5 because of concerns how committed he really is to doing the work and because of his injury history. I have no opinion whether they're right, I'm just repeating what others have said.

To say he's Mr. I Don't Care! though is a stretch. He'd have to not care a LOT to equal Cutler.

But, if Rosen falls to #12 that will be the reason. And if the Broncos sit tight at #5 they are unlikely to draft a QB there. (This is according to Denver7 Broncos Insider Troy Renk this AM).

I don't know how good HIS sources are either.

[underrated29]

Considering that the Kelly Fan Club probably has no more the 3 or 4 members in it, and Keenum has plenty of actual game film to analyse, the Keenum Fan Club is most likely to attempt such an argument.

Im a full fledged member

[underrated29]

Rosen is the best QB in this class. If he slipped to 5 we can thank Tebow for his mighty greatness.

[Elevation inc]

I don't buy that one. Apparently some teams are leery of drafting Rosen in the top 5 because of concerns how committed he really is to doing the work and because of his injury history. I have no opinion whether they're right, I'm just repeating what others have said.

To say he's Mr. I Don't Care! though is a stretch. He'd have to not care a LOT to equal Cutler.

But, if Rosen falls to #12 that will be the reason. And if the Broncos sit tight at #5 they are unlikely to draft a QB there. (This is according to Denver7 Broncos Insider Troy Renk this AM).

I don't know how good HIS sources are either.


My point was the seemingly abrasive personality. I think Jay and Rosen Care about football a lot. I like Rosen it wasn't a knock just a observation.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Jay cutler and Rosen have very similar personalities FWIW....Just putting that out there

Maybe so, at least Rosen has good mechanics. Cutler? Not so much

[CoachChaz]

Rosen may be the best right now...but if Allen and Darnold can live up to their potential, they will exceed his skills in the long run.

[Poet]

Rosen may be the best right now...but if Allen and Darnold can live up to their potential, they will exceed his skills in the long run.

His leg up in the long term is his intellect. That's why he has the highest overall ceiling out of all of them - he can be the closest thing to Manning.

[CoachChaz]

His leg up in the long term is his intellect. That's why he has the highest overall ceiling out of all of them - he can be the closest thing to Manning.

Not sure if you read that or made it up, but all of the reports I've read state that most GM's thought Mayfield had the highest football IQ in this draft class.

[Cugel]

My point was the seemingly abrasive personality. I think Jay and Rosen Care about football a lot. I like Rosen it wasn't a knock just a observation.

Jay Cutler had so much physical talent that only supreme indifference to his development and his teammates kept him out of the Hall of Fame. He had the size, athleticism, and superb arm talent. His talent was his curse. He was one of those guys who always was successful based on pure ability and never had to dedicate himself the way Peyton Manning did.

And he grew to resent all those coaches and fans and media who kept criticizing him for being an underachiever. He simply didn't care. Hence MR. "I-Don't-Care!"

[Cugel]

Not sure if you read that or made it up, but all of the reports I've read state that most GM's thought Mayfield had the highest football IQ in this draft class.

It might be that Mayfield is the most NFL ready from an intellectual perspective, but his durability is in question. There's a reason teams want 6'4" QBs with great arm talent. Those guys - IF they have the work ethic to develop their talent, can have the durability to become long term franchise QBs.

In this draft that is Darnold and Allen, not Rosen or Mayfield. I don't express any opinion on all these guys. I'd be fine with drafting Mayfield, if Elway is sure that guy is the long term answer.

But, he'd better be right!

[TXBRONC]

It might be that Mayfield is the most NFL ready from an intellectual perspective, but his durability is in question. There's a reason teams want 6'4" QBs with great arm talent. Those guys - IF they have the work ethic to develop their talent, can have the durability to become long term franchise QBs.

In this draft that is Darnold and Allen, not Rosen or Mayfield. I don't express any opinion on all these guys. I'd be fine with drafting Mayfield, if Elway is sure that guy is the long term answer.

But, he'd better be right!

Rosen is 6'4"and has had injury issues.

[underrated29]

Rosen may be the best right now...but if Allen and Darnold can live up to their potential, they will exceed his skills in the long run.

I do not disagree with you too often when it comes to prospects but I do not agree too much with this.


Allen I can see. If he lives up to his potential he can be a luck, a big ben, and elway, he could be a HOF QB. But I am just not sure. To me its the biggest IF of all the QBs. He has the longest ways to go but also the highest ceiling of all no doubt.

I do not see how Darnold can be better than Rosen. Darnolds mechanics are not as good. His arm may be stronger but not much. His accuracy and decisions are not as good as Rosen. He has more leadership so that can boost his ceiling but maybe Rosen will get some too. I do not know....

To me, for now, I do not see the potential in Darnold being that much higher than Rosen. Why do you see? What do you know that I am missing?

[Cugel]

Rosen is 6'4"and has had injury issues.

I was thinking of Mayfield. Obviously injury is a concern with Rosen, who has a slighter physique than Allen or Darnold, but again, I don't know which, if any, of these QBs translate best to the NFL.

As Kyle Shanahan said, the college game is so different that mostly scouts only have arm talent to go by. Based solely off that, maybe Rosen is the most NFL style QB of the four? & Allen has the best arm.

I imagine that difference between college and pro game is why so many QBs miss, and QBs taken later in the draft are sometimes successes (Russell Wilson).

[Poet]

Not sure if you read that or made it up, but all of the reports I've read state that most GM's thought Mayfield had the highest football IQ in this draft class.

Yeah, Coach, I make things up. :shocked:

Rosen is the guy who doesn't just understand the playbook, he understands the theory behind the playbook. Like from top to bottom, the way a coach would. It's a higher level of understanding. That is not Baker Mayfield, who isn't a slouch, either.

[Hawgdriver]

Yeah, Coach, I make things up. :shocked:

Rosen is the guy who doesn't just understand the playbook, he understands the theory behind the playbook. Like from top to bottom, the way a coach would. It's a higher level of understanding. That is not Baker Mayfield, who isn't a slouch, either.

I'd take Rosen over Mayfield too for the on-field offensive coordinator potential. I like Mayfield's chip though. Rosen has a chip, too, but it's different somehow. Like he needs to show the world who's boss.

[Hawgdriver]

Wish I could have been in those interviews about dissecting a play.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Have zero issues with Rosen the player or his attitude. I'd never draft a QB that early who already has multiple concussions.

[Hawgdriver]

Have zero issues with Rosen the player or his attitude. I'd never draft a QB that early who already has multiple concussions.

Yeah. ****.

[Poet]

I'd take Rosen over Mayfield too for the on-field offensive coordinator potential. I like Mayfield's chip though. Rosen has a chip, too, but it's different somehow. Like he needs to show the world who's boss.

He's the dude who can teach the law school class and win in court.

[Poet]

Yeah. ****.

They said Munoz's career was over when he tore his ACL. The lowly Bengals drafted him and he's arguably the best LT ever. They said McGagahee would never be a topflight back, and he actually was for a portion of his career. Brees' career was supposed to be just about done when the Saints signed him.

Now, only one of those scenarios is a pre-draft injury, but at that point in time the ACL tear was supposed to be a real killer, and for a lot of players it was. He has two concussions. One was severe, and one caused him to miss a game. Are you rolling the dice with him? Well, considering he's probably the most accurate passer, and that he's the most pro-ready, I'm not certain he's even the biggest gamble out of the QB's.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Don't F with head injuries. As you said...he is smart. Smart enough to get paid and realize all the neurological crap ain't worth it.

[Poet]

Don't F with head injuries. As you said...he is smart. Smart enough to get paid and realize all the neurological crap ain't worth it.

Smart enough to know that he's a football player and wants to play football. Which also speaks to his character. He's also going to be on a rookie deal, which isn't a killer, and if he retires the team is off the hook. Five years from now, or four years from now, he's going to back out after getting a deal? At this point we're taking every flaw the kid has and massively extrapolating from it.

I'm not with you on this one.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Smart enough to know that he's a football player and wants to play football. Which also speaks to his character. He's also going to be on a rookie deal, which isn't a killer, and if he retires the team is off the hook. Five years from now, or four years from now, he's going to back out after getting a deal? At this point we're taking every flaw the kid has and massively extrapolating from it.

I'm not with you on this one.

Hardly nitpicking flaws. I wouldn't draft ANYONE with multiple concussions before even finishing college. I don't need you to be with me. It's my viewpoint.

[Hawgdriver]

Hardly nitpicking flaws. I wouldn't draft ANYONE with multiple concussions before even finishing college. I don't need you to be with me. It's my viewpoint.

I'm no expert, but common sense tells me that Rosen smartly prioritizes his long term health over making the HOF. Who else sees this?

[MOtorboat]

Hardly nitpicking flaws. I wouldn't draft ANYONE with multiple concussions before even finishing college. I don't need you to be with me. It's my viewpoint.

Serious question: Would there be anyone to draft with this theory?

[Hawgdriver]

Serious question: Would there be anyone to draft with this theory?

What are the details on his concussions?

[Poet]

Hardly nitpicking flaws. I wouldn't draft ANYONE with multiple concussions before even finishing college. I don't need you to be with me. It's my viewpoint.

Oh no, it's nitpicking. Because we don't know he'll get another one, we don't know how bad the other ones were, and we don't know what his priorities are. Every actual indication that we do know suggests that his detractors are wrong in this regard, though. But when I say nitpicking, I do mean it, although not necessarily directed at you, per se: I've noted over the past few days that Allen's accuracy issues have magically gone away; Darnold's issues with regressing after one year and having turnover issues suddenly aren't that important; and Mayfield's attitude and physical deficiencies don't matter, either. Now that's just a general observation, but it is what it is.


It's a message board, I was finding a polite way to say that I think you are wrong. :D

[aberdien]

I just want to know why King is so enamored with Rosen!

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Serious question: Would there be anyone to draft with this theory?

There are some players who consistently have concussion issues to include being more prone to them than others and experiencing longer recovery times. I would shy away from a high pick or paying big FA money to a guy with those concerns.

[MOtorboat]

What are the details on his concussions?

I have no idea. I do know it's almost physically impossible to draft a player who hasn't had a concussion.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Oh no, it's nitpicking. Because we don't know he'll get another one, we don't know how bad the other ones were, and we don't know what his priorities are. Every actual indication that we do know suggests that his detractors are wrong in this regard, though. But when I say nitpicking, I do mean it, although not necessarily directed at you, per se: I've noted over the past few days that Allen's accuracy issues have magically gone away; Darnold's issues with regressing after one year and having turnover issues suddenly aren't that important; and Mayfield's attitude and physical deficiencies don't matter, either. Now that's just a general observation, but it is what it is.


It's a message board, I was finding a polite way to say that I think you are wrong. :D

When I think people nitpick, my belief is that they are looking for an excuse to support their dislike for something regardless of how irrational their dislike may be. I have no dislike for Rosen. I don't believe I've made 1 negative comment about him. In this day and age players are retiring early when concerned about long term health. I don't blame them. But I also wouldn't make a big investment in those players who are consistently injured or who have the concussion concerns.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I have no idea. I do know it's almost physically impossible to draft a player who hasn't had a concussion.

I agree that most if not all have had some sort. But is time being missed? Are they considered to be severe? Is recovery longer than the average? Are concussions occurring more frequently as they pile up? Are they occurring on seemingly minimal contact plays? Unfortunately some bodies/heads can't handle the contact as well as others

[Poet]

I just want to know why King is so enamored with Rosen!

Because physical tools are overrated. Unless you're so horribly deficient, and shouldn't be in the league, you can't get by with just that. Cam Newton is bad at being a QB, but he's the exception to the rule because of how talented he is. That type of guy isn't out there often. But, neither are minds like Rosen. Take someone who can dissect a playbook, tell you why every play is in there, and have categorical knowledge of the playbook, the theories behind it, the specific theories of that playbook, why it's constructed that way, etc. The guy views the game on a systemic level - on a fundamental and theoretical level as well as not just the theory, but the actual practice of it. And he's hyper competitive, even as far as athletes go. Trent Dilfer heard about Rosen when he was in high school. Not uncommon for prospects, but he's panned out from that time and he has that mind. He has a really good arm, not a great one, but with arm strength to spare. He's the best pure passer in the class and he has the best mind.

He'll end up putting on some weight and that critique goes out the window. Then you have the concussion argument, which isn't worthless, but is probably being overblown. Then you have the bad teammate knock, which is in dispute. Then you have the attitude issues which are really more of a 'political bent' that I won't get into.

Take aside the concussion thing for a second - where's the actual problem? There's not much of one - he's probably the most underrated player in the entire draft. And make no mistake, I'd be fine with multiple QB's here. Allen developing behind CK actually makes a modicum of sense, even though we paid a horrible price for a backup QB. Mayfield could probably start, and while I wish he was taller, the rest of the boxes get checked. Then you have Darnold, who is, to some, the best overall package, but raw. Etc. Point being, I would prefer Rosen because I see a rare mix of high end intellect, competitive spirit, and polished play, but I could get on board with a lot of the QB's.

TL;DR - is that instead of having to choose between the arm and the super brain, you rarely don't get to have both, and Rosen represents both.

[Poet]

When I think people nitpick, my belief is that they are looking for an excuse to support their dislike for something regardless of how irrational their dislike may be. I have no dislike for Rosen. I don't believe I've made 1 negative comment about him. In this day and age players are retiring early when concerned about long term health. I don't blame them. But I also wouldn't make a big investment in those players who are consistently injured or who have the concussion concerns.

Nitpicking isn't necessarily just a dislike thing - in law school we nitpick everything. :D

[MOtorboat]

I agree that most if not all have had some sort. But is time being missed? Are they considered to be severe? Is recovery longer than the average? Are concussions occurring more frequently as they pile up? Are they occurring on seemingly minimal contact plays? Unfortunately some bodies/heads can't handle the contact as well as others

The stuff I've read about studies has indicated that there are no levels to concussions. You're causing damage to your brain, period. And there's no way to predict or know if the next one for any concussion for any one will cause long-lasting harm or have long-lasting effects.

[Hawgdriver]

I'm with SmilinAssassin. There is a certain element of self-reporting associated with concussions. In addition, Rosen is exactly the type of person who would take the issue of concussions seriously. He's not afraid to make a personal issue of it. I'm not saying that's the case here, but it weighs as a risk.


The quarterback said his position minimizes the risk of injury compared to a position such as running back. Current NFL rookies Leonard Fournette and Christian McCaffrey skipped bowl games last season due to the risk of injury and ended up being taken in the first eight picks of the 2017 NFL draft.

"For them, it is not an issue of if they are getting hurt. It's an issue of how severe," Rosen told reporters. "Most of those guys get banged up to some extent every single game. Quarterback is unique. We will take a few licks here and there, but nothing like the beatings those guys take.

"People also have to realize that a lot of these guys have family, kids. A lot of guys have to support families. They may want to play in a bowl game. But maybe they're locked into their futures and they need to take care of a kid, or family, or brother or sister. People should look into each of their stories and see how football is affecting their lives. I'm fortunate. I'm a quarterback. Every situation is unique.''


Rosen missed a game in November due to a concussion and he was held out of UCLA's bowl game in December after suffering another concussion in the regular season finale.

All of the draft prospects are being poked and prodded during thorough medical examinations at the NFL Scouting Combine this week, but evaluating concussions remains a gray area.

"It's harder because there's no objective imaging test that tells you much," said Dr. Scott Rodeo from the Hospital for Special Surgery, who has been the Giants' head team physician since 2015. "So, the biggest thing we look at is number of concussions. An important factor, not just with concussions, is the number of injuries a kid has had. If he's had three hamstring strains and two high-ankle sprains and a shoulder subluxation ... a kid who has had a number of injuries, he's likely to have another. Concussions fit in that."

[SmilinAssasSin27]

The stuff I've read about studies has indicated that there are no levels to concussions. You're causing damage to your brain, period. And there's no way to predict or know if the next one for any concussion for any one will cause long-lasting harm or long-lasting affects.

Yet there are still some who seem to take longer to recover and/or are more prone to them. I'm sure long term damage and testing may tell similar stories in the end, but I have to go with what I see. For whatever reason Luke Kuechly seems to have more of these issues than Brandon Marshall. I don't pretend to know why, but I'm also not gonna invest heavily in LK going forward.

[Poet]

I'm with SmilinAssassin. There is a certain element of self-reporting associated with concussions. In addition, Rosen is exactly the type of person who would take the issue of concussions seriously. He's not afraid to make a personal issue of it. I'm not saying that's the case here, but it weighs as a risk.

He also, according to his coach, tried to "politic," his way back into a bowl game that he missed due to a concussion.

[MOtorboat]

There's an argument to be made for having the kid who will report it, versus the kid who won't.

Also, for me, it goes to his general level of intelligence, which seems to be quite high. I like high-IQ quarterbacks.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

There's an argument to be made for having the kid who will report it, versus the kid who won't.

Also, for me, it goes to his general level of intelligence, which seems to be quite high. I like high-IQ quarterbacks.

I'm not crapping on him for his willingness to report it, but there are so many people looking for the signs, that the unreported cases have had to decrease exponentially.

That's my #1 priority as a coach and I just deal with middle school soccer.

[Poet]

I'm not crapping on him for his willingness to report it, but there are so many people looking for the signs, that the unreported cases have had to decrease exponentially.

That's my #1 priority as a coach and I just deal with middle school soccer.

Not necessarily, the league has to keep revamping the teams and personnel each year because of it - and that's just counting gameday and not practice.

[MOtorboat]

I'm not crapping on him for his willingness to report it, but there are so many people looking for the signs, that the unreported cases have had to decrease exponentially.

That's my #1 priority as a coach and I just deal with middle school soccer.

I didn't mean to suggest you were crapping on him for reporting it. That was not the intent of making that argument.

[Hawgdriver]

He also, according to his coach, tried to "politic," his way back into a bowl game that he missed due to a concussion.

I just watched the film vs. the Huskies where he got his first concussion. Watch it and tell me when he was injured. All I can see is perhaps the final play or else earlier when Vea smoked him. What's weird is that there was no concussion reported during the game, it was only after. This is a risk with this kid, either he's the 10% of college NCAA football players with multiple concussions and therefore more prone to them, or he's trying to avoid CTE.

gRUJpey8Yhc

[Poet]

I just watched the film vs. the Huskies where he got his first concussion. Watch it and tell me when he was injured. All I can see is perhaps the final play or else earlier when Vea smoked him. What's weird is that there was no concussion reported during the game, it was only after. This is a risk with this kid, either he's the 10% of college NCAA football players with multiple concussions and therefore more prone to them, or he's trying to avoid CTE.

gRUJpey8Yhc

There have always been issues with reporting concussions and the symptoms. I do not accept your dichotomy, though. You can get a concussion by a simple run-of-the-mill sack and not get one on a massive hit. Which would mean, on that first play, for instance, he could have been concussed, just as an example.

[Hawgdriver]

There have always been issues with reporting concussions and the symptoms. I do not accept your dichotomy, though. You can get a concussion by a simple run-of-the-mill sack and not get one on a massive hit. Which would mean, on that first play, for instance, he could have been concussed, just as an example.

Fine. I have no problem with any of that stuff and yes the brain is weird how it's rapid centrifugal deceleration that causes concussions...but those were all normal football plays an no big hits. He takes it seriously, and he took himself out of the next game. It's definitely a risk when drafting him. He also happens to be the best QB in the draft and I respect his approach. As a GM I'd favor someone who doesn't mind CTE.

[Poet]

Fine. I have no problem with any of that stuff and yes the brain is weird how it's rapid centrifugal deceleration that causes concussions...but those were all normal football plays an no big hits. He takes it seriously, and he took himself out of the next game. It's definitely a risk when drafting him. He also happens to be the best QB in the draft and I respect his approach. As a GM I'd favor someone who doesn't mind CTE.

You have guys retiring early who are Pro Bowlers and All-Pro level guys. Now, to be fair, a lot of those guys retiring aren't QB's, so I am with you there. I will also admit that I did not know he pulled himself from a game. I thought each time it was a decision made elsewhere?

[Hawgdriver]

You have guys retiring early who are Pro Bowlers and All-Pro level guys. Now, to be fair, a lot of those guys retiring aren't QB's, so I am with you there. I will also admit that I did not know he pulled himself from a game. I thought each time it was a decision made elsewhere?

Can't find details. It appears to be true in the UW game.

[Poet]

Can't find details. It appears to be true in the UW game.

I love you.

[TXBRONC]

I was thinking of Mayfield. Obviously injury is a concern with Rosen, who has a slighter physique than Allen or Darnold, but again, I don't know which, if any, of these QBs translate best to the NFL.

As Kyle Shanahan said, the college game is so different that mostly scouts only have arm talent to go by. Based solely off that, maybe Rosen is the most NFL style QB of the four? & Allen has the best arm.

I imagine that difference between college and pro game is why so many QBs miss, and QBs taken later in the draft are sometimes successes (Russell Wilson).

Allen, Darnold, and Rosen all played in pro style offenses. Allen was coached by the same guy who coached Carson Wentz at NDSU. It's a risk no matter who they would take. Even if Rosen or whomever is the flavor of the week most NFL ready is huge risk.

[TXBRONC]

Yeah, Coach, I make things up. :shocked:

Rosen is the guy who doesn't just understand the playbook, he understands the theory behind the playbook. Like from top to bottom, the way a coach would. It's a higher level of understanding. That is not Baker Mayfield, who isn't a slouch, either.

I have not heard that Rosen's football IQ is "light years" (my word) ahead of the other top quarterback prospects in this draft.

[Cugel]

There are some players who consistently have concussion issues to include being more prone to them than others and experiencing longer recovery times. I would shy away from a high pick or paying big FA money to a guy with those concerns.

You mean like Steve Young? :laugh:
11903

[Shazam!]

Would the Jets have traded up if the NYG said openly they werent going QB? I doubt it.

[BroncoJoe]

You mean like Steve Young? :laugh:
11903

I can't find anything about concussions in college. They all - from what I can find - occurred in the NFL.

Your point is moot.

[Simple Jaded]

Because physical tools are overrated. Unless you're so horribly deficient, and shouldn't be in the league, you can't get by with just that. Cam Newton is bad at being a QB, but he's the exception to the rule because of how talented he is. That type of guy isn't out there often. But, neither are minds like Rosen. Take someone who can dissect a playbook, tell you why every play is in there, and have categorical knowledge of the playbook, the theories behind it, the specific theories of that playbook, why it's constructed that way, etc. The guy views the game on a systemic level - on a fundamental and theoretical level as well as not just the theory, but the actual practice of it. And he's hyper competitive, even as far as athletes go. Trent Dilfer heard about Rosen when he was in high school. Not uncommon for prospects, but he's panned out from that time and he has that mind. He has a really good arm, not a great one, but with arm strength to spare. He's the best pure passer in the class and he has the best mind.

He'll end up putting on some weight and that critique goes out the window. Then you have the concussion argument, which isn't worthless, but is probably being overblown. Then you have the bad teammate knock, which is in dispute. Then you have the attitude issues which are really more of a 'political bent' that I won't get into.

Take aside the concussion thing for a second - where's the actual problem? There's not much of one - he's probably the most underrated player in the entire draft. And make no mistake, I'd be fine with multiple QB's here. Allen developing behind CK actually makes a modicum of sense, even though we paid a horrible price for a backup QB. Mayfield could probably start, and while I wish he was taller, the rest of the boxes get checked. Then you have Darnold, who is, to some, the best overall package, but raw. Etc. Point being, I would prefer Rosen because I see a rare mix of high end intellect, competitive spirit, and polished play, but I could get on board with a lot of the QB's.

TL;DR - is that instead of having to choose between the arm and the super brain, you rarely don't get to have both, and Rosen represents both.

Rosen, long arms, arm strength, big hands and a solid 3-cone.

It’s science, damn yos.

[Poet]

But is he a son of god?

[Simple Jaded]

But is he a son of god?

No, but...

He’s the God of Thunder.

[Simple Jaded]

QVBAeS5t5nc

[Simple Jaded]

Get hype bitches!

#ThunderPoundsWhenIStompTheGround

[Cugel]

That's one view of Rosen. But, then why are the Giants passing on him at #2? Answer: because not every team views Rosen like this. Some see him as a risky pick and don't want him.

[Cugel]

Would the Jets have traded up if the NYG said openly they werent going QB? I doubt it.

Why would they tell the Colts? The Colts infer from the Giants getting rid of JPP that they are going to pass on Rosen and take Chubb.

[topscribe]

It appears it may be fortunate for the Broncos that Mayfield is popularly viewed as #4 among
the four QBs. It looks as if he is their man. I would not be totally surprised if they jump on
him if he's available but will go BPA if he's not, no matter what other QB is. IMO

[Cugel]

It appears it may be fortunate for the Broncos that Mayfield is popularly viewed as #4 among
the four QBs. It looks as if he is their man. I would not be totally surprised if they jump on
him if he's available but will go BPA if he's not, no matter what other QB is. IMO

It appears they like him, and could conceivably take him at #5, but it would be rather unlikely according to Troy Renck the 9News Broncos beat writer who knows everybody in the team hierarchy. The way the NFL works is that the players who are being paid the most tend to start.

They might suck their way out of a starting job, but they get first crack at starting almost always. So, if you're paying $25m for one season for a guy it's hard not to start him. Can you imagine a scenario where they were not playing Von Miller for some reason, and yet were paying him $18m a year? This is $7m worse than that.

It's just very difficult to pay a QB all that money if he's not going to be your starter. And yet why draft a QB at #5 if you're not going to play him? What's the point? You're 5-11! The time to start him is now, while you still suck, so he can learn and not cost you a playoff spot, because you weren't going to the playoffs anyway, not two years from now, when presumably the team around him is better.

The logical conclusion I come to is that Elway thinks he can build a team around Keenum, but isn't sure, so he was unwilling to commit to more than 2 years. So, it will either work out long term, or else the team will move on after the 2019 season.

But, that does appear to be the direction the team is going, and we might as well get on board and ride and see where it goes. Hopefully somewhere good. :coffee:

[topscribe]

It appears they like him, and could conceivably take him at #5, but it would be rather unlikely according to Troy Renck the 9News Broncos beat writer who knows everybody in the team hierarchy. The way the NFL works is that the players who are being paid the most tend to start.

They might suck their way out of a starting job, but they get first crack at starting almost always. So, if you're paying $25m for one season for a guy it's hard not to start him. Can you imagine a scenario where they were not playing Von Miller for some reason, and yet were paying him $18m a year? This is $7m worse than that.

It's just very difficult to pay a QB all that money if he's not going to be your starter. And yet why draft a QB at #5 if you're not going to play him? What's the point? You're 5-11! The time to start him is now, while you still suck, so he can learn and not cost you a playoff spot, because you weren't going to the playoffs anyway, not two years from now, when presumably the team around him is better.

The logical conclusion I come to is that Elway thinks he can build a team around Keenum, but isn't sure, so he was unwilling to commit to more than 2 years. So, it will either work out long term, or else the team will move on after the 2019 season.

But, that does appear to be the direction the team is going, and we might as well get on board and ride and see where it goes. Hopefully somewhere good. :coffee:
Most of your comment makes some sense, but where you may be stuck is that the Broncos were
5-11 last year, not this year. It is not believable to me that, with a better QB and a better O-line,
the Broncos aren't going to improve their record this year. Add an upgrade to the RB position and
TE, and the Broncos are playoff contenders, IMO.

This can happen through the draft, and likely will. With top a 5 selection in each of the first three
rounds and two selections each in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounds, they are going to upgrade
something.

I look for a playoff contender in the Broncos next year. I really do. If they can do that, then they
can afford to let a Mayfield duke it out with Lynch behind Keenum to determine whether they
have two gems, or a gem and a bust, or just Keenum.

[TXBRONC]

That's one view of Rosen. But, then why are the Giants passing on him at #2? Answer: because not every team views Rosen like this. Some see him as a risky pick and don't want him.

I get the feeling that if teams pass on him it will have to do with the rumors that he's difficult to coach and front offices perceive him as kind of player that teammates do not rally around.

[TXBRONC]

It appears they like him, and could conceivably take him at #5, but it would be rather unlikely according to Troy Renck the 9News Broncos beat writer who knows everybody in the team hierarchy. The way the NFL works is that the players who are being paid the most tend to start.

They might suck their way out of a starting job, but they get first crack at starting almost always. So, if you're paying $25m for one season for a guy it's hard not to start him. Can you imagine a scenario where they were not playing Von Miller for some reason, and yet were paying him $18m a year? This is $7m worse than that.

It's just very difficult to pay a QB all that money if he's not going to be your starter. And yet why draft a QB at #5 if you're not going to play him? What's the point? You're 5-11! The time to start him is now, while you still suck, so he can learn and not cost you a playoff spot, because you weren't going to the playoffs anyway, not two years from now, when presumably the team around him is better.

The logical conclusion I come to is that Elway thinks he can build a team around Keenum, but isn't sure, so he was unwilling to commit to more than 2 years. So, it will either work out long term, or else the team will move on after the 2019 season.

But, that does appear to be the direction the team is going, and we might as well get on board and ride and see where it goes. Hopefully somewhere good. :coffee:

I don't know Cug, if Elway believed that Keenum is more than a transition quarterback it doesn't make sense to give him just a two year deal.

[topscribe]

I don't know Cug, if Elway believed that Keenum is more than a transition quarterback it doesn't make sense to give him just a two year deal.
From what I have heard, that's what Keenum wanted. It could be that he knows he would be
signing for much less than the top tier QBs and wants to prove himself over a couple years
to get his own piece of the pie . . .

[TXBRONC]

From what I have heard, that's what Keenum wanted. It could be that he knows he would be
signing for much less than the top tier QBs and wants to prove himself over a couple years
to get his own piece of the pie . . .

As I said, I don't think the Broncos would offer just a two deal if they think he's longer term fix. I doubt Keenum would have turned if it were offered.

[Cugel]

As I said, I don't think the Broncos would offer just a two deal if they think he's longer term fix. I doubt Keenum would have turned if it were offered.

This is a one year audition for Keenum. Elway is giving him a chance to become the long term franchise QB, but it's only a 1 year audition.

Of course they didn't offer Keenum a full 4 year deal, which would mean a $50m + guarantee. Their guarantee was $36m which is about NFL starting QB average.

If Keenum plays like he did last year, then he's a huge bargain. The Broncos tear up his contract and sign him to a new 4 year deal at $20-22m a year or something. Long term franchise QB.

If Keenum plays average, they keep him and draft another QB in 2019 assuming they don't do that in the 2nd or later rounds in 2018.

If he sucks they would have to work on him and draft a QB and start that guy.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

This is a one year audition for Keenum. Elway is giving him a chance to become the long term franchise QB, but it's only a 1 year audition.

Of course they didn't offer Keenum a full 4 year deal, which would mean a $50m + guarantee. Their guarantee was $36m which is about NFL starting QB average.

If Keenum plays like he did last year, then he's a huge bargain. The Broncos tear up his contract and sign him to a new 4 year deal at $20-22m a year or something. Long term franchise QB.

If Keenum plays average, they keep him and draft another QB in 2019 assuming they don't do that in the 2nd or later rounds in 2018.

If he sucks they would have to work on him and draft a QB and start that guy.

I agree with that assessment. Based on that, I'll be kinda surprised if they use a premium pick on QB. Maybe...cough...Mike...cough...White...cough.

[topscribe]

This is a one year audition for Keenum. Elway is giving him a chance to become the long term franchise QB, but it's only a 1 year audition.

Of course they didn't offer Keenum a full 4 year deal, which would mean a $50m + guarantee. Their guarantee was $36m which is about NFL starting QB average.

If Keenum plays like he did last year, then he's a huge bargain. The Broncos tear up his contract and sign him to a new 4 year deal at $20-22m a year or something. Long term franchise QB.

If Keenum plays average, they keep him and draft another QB in 2019 assuming they don't do that in the 2nd or later rounds in 2018.

If he sucks they would have to work on him and draft a QB and start that guy.
That seemed kind of Keenum's idea, too. He was asked about his contract in an interview, and
he said something to the effect that he and his agent talked, and that is what they came up
with, that he wanted the opportunity to prove himself. He asserted he will do better this year
than he even did last year, so if he does, he knows he's in for a bigger payday. Anyway, this
is my inference on the basis of he contract, FWIW. As quickly as the contract was signed, there
couldn't have been much negotiation, so it was apparently amenable to both sides.

[Poet]

All this Case Keenum talk is depressing.

[topscribe]

All this Case Keenum talk is depressing.
My daughter may be able to give you a referral to a psychiatrist . . .

[dogfish]

As quickly as the contract was signed, there
couldn't have been much negotiation, so it was apparently amenable to both sides.

the conversation between case and his agent took all of about three seconds. . .

"Wait, they're offering how much? Take it! TAKE IT!!"

:laugh:

[Poet]

the conversation between case and his agent took all of about three seconds. . .

"Wait, they're offering how much? Take it! TAKE IT!!"

:laugh:

That fax machine did NOT break down.

[dogfish]

That fax machine did NOT break down.

best believe they took that bad boy in for a tune-up the day before!

[Simple Jaded]

From what I have heard, that's what Keenum wanted. It could be that he knows he would be
signing for much less than the top tier QBs and wants to prove himself over a couple years
to get his own piece of the pie . . .

At which point the Broncos say goodbye and take the comp pick.

That’s a win/win.

All aboard the Case Keenum Comp Pick Train.