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WARHORSE
03-15-2018, 12:58 AM
Who?


If we stay at 5....the pick is......





Im thinking Denver is going after Allen and may even trade up for him.

DenBronx
03-15-2018, 03:28 AM
How dare you not put Barkley on the list

Shazam!
03-15-2018, 03:30 AM
How dare you not put Barkley on the list

Cleveland man. That's a dream tho right

MOtorboat
03-15-2018, 03:30 AM
They're taking Mayfield. This isn't a debate.

Shazam!
03-15-2018, 03:33 AM
Mayfield is a dream. I pray you are right.

MOtorboat
03-15-2018, 03:41 AM
Mayfield is a dream. I pray you are right.

Well, it's absolutely not a dream. It's a nightmare. But it is what's happening. John Elway, in his infinite quarterback wisdom, is going to draft a shorter Colt McCoy at No. 5 overall. It's going to be an utter disaster.

DenBronx
03-15-2018, 04:22 AM
Cleveland man. That's a dream tho right

He will be gone for sure.

WARHORSE
03-15-2018, 04:29 AM
How dare you not put Barkley on the list


I dont see him being there honestly. Would Browns pass twice on him? Doubt it.

WARHORSE
03-15-2018, 04:31 AM
Too much is going into Mayfield to me.
Its like the Broncos want people to think they are focused on him and Rosen.

I watch the tape of Allen and his upside is too much to pass on.....he looks eerily like someone we know.

Mobility and a generational big arm are HARD to pass up. Defenses will die trying to defend this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxoLGRZLnk

He was an unknown. Unheralded. Barely coached. He had no one to throw to. Watch the tape.

Yes, you can strike out with him, but same with the others. Some call into question his completion percentage.......take a look at a couple of other strong armed Qbs we know in Elway and Stafford.

He can throw on the run............this kind of potential you dont pass on.

DenBronx
03-15-2018, 05:26 AM
#smokescreen

I bet we draft a QB but won't come in the 1st. Surely we have done our homework on the 2nd tier QBs.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-15-2018, 05:33 AM
Cleveland man. That's a dream tho right

They might not. They signed Carlos Hyde to a 3/15 deal. I doubt they wanna pay him 5 mil per to sit behind Barkley. I think they go QB then either Chubb or Nelson at 4, or maybe trade back with a team like Buffalo.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-15-2018, 05:42 AM
I think they take Nelson because, like MO and Mayfield, it’s the pick I won’t like. I’m not saying he’s not great and safe, I think he’s too “safe”. Meaning he has a very low bust factor but also a low (compared to a QB or pass rusher) impact overall on games. I don’t think there’s a huge drop off between him, Hernandez, and Wynn who could be had later.

If the Broncos FO doesn’t take a QB at 5, I’d like to see a premier pass rusher. Let’s be honest, the 2015 squad was successful because of the pass rush. They helped make the no fly the no fly. What helps Harris and Roby? A better pass rush. That pass rush beat Brady and Newton and won a super bowl. Want ya boi Keenum to succeed? Give him a defense that can get the other team off the field and get him the ball back. Just like he had in Minnesota.

broncofaninfla
03-15-2018, 08:28 AM
After watching Mayfield practice for a week with the Broncos coaching staff I developed a major man crush on him. I went there thinking Allen would be the best QB there and left a Mayfield fan. I'd honestly be surprised if Cleveland doesn't take Mayfield at the 4 spot. Out of every Senior Bowl I've been to I've never seen so many fans show up for the autograph session as showed up for Mayfield. Cleveland was the only team to talk to some of the fans in the line (myself included) and ask why they were Mayfield fans, would they still be fans of his in the NFL. They seemed to be sampling the fan base that would come with Mayfield on top of what was already obvious in the he is the most NFL ready QB of the QB's that played in the senior bowl this year. Mayfield and Hernandez were the top 2 players that week and I'm convinced both will be stars in the NFL.
With that said, if I'm in charge obviously I'd go Mayfield if not I'd go Chubb or Minkah if I stayed at 5.

Rick
03-15-2018, 08:37 AM
I think Mayfield IF he is still available, which is a long shot.

I voted other because I think Mayfield might be gone and they trade back.

BroncoJoe
03-15-2018, 08:45 AM
Mock from CBS:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-browns-and-jets-trade-up-for-qbs-browns-take-chubb-no-1/

I'm imagining heads exploding around here.

aberdien
03-15-2018, 08:59 AM
As long as it's not Mayfield.

Poet
03-15-2018, 09:02 AM
Mock from CBS:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-browns-and-jets-trade-up-for-qbs-browns-take-chubb-no-1/

I'm imagining heads exploding around here.

On one hand, we'd be drafting the QB, so I'd be happy. On the other hand, I think that's the wrong QB. I'd be conflicted.

turftoad
03-15-2018, 09:26 AM
Meh to all this QB talk. We just signed Kennum and have two young guys behind him already. Elway himself has said he's not seen enough of PL and Kelly is intriguing.
I don't think we make a sexy offensive pick unless it's Barkley,

My choice is Nelson. Not sexy but firms up an OL position for 10 yrs to come.

Nomad
03-15-2018, 09:29 AM
If the BRONCOS don't address the oline, other than with FA band aids or mid-to-late rounders, they'll want a QB like Mayfield who can run for his life and perhaps make a play.....a Russell Wilson type.

I'll hold out any overreaction until after FA, and the draft. Make us proud, Elway.

CoachChaz
03-15-2018, 09:32 AM
Meh to all this QB talk. We just signed Kennum and have two young guys behind him already. Elway himself has said he's not seen enough of PL and Kelly is intriguing.
I don't think we make a sexy offensive pick unless it's Barkley,

My choice is Nelson. Not sexy but firms up an OL position for 10 yrs to come.

I would love to agree with this. We have Keenum for at least 2 years and having a true starter will allow Lynch to focus more on development and less on fighting for a starting job prematurely. We drafted the kid with the knowledge he wouldn't be ready for 2-3 years and then forced him into a competition before that. I know poeple want to piss on PL, but most of his scenario may not be his fault. Add the intrigue of Kelly to the mix and another nice crop of QB's in the 2019 draft...and I think we can focus elsewhere this year.

Nomad
03-15-2018, 09:37 AM
Meh to all this QB talk. We just signed Kennum and have two young guys behind him already. Elway himself has said he's not seen enough of PL and Kelly is intriguing.
I don't think we make a sexy offensive pick unless it's Barkley,

My choice is Nelson. Not sexy but firms up an OL position for 10 yrs to come.

Agree!

dogfish
03-15-2018, 09:37 AM
Mock from CBS:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-browns-and-jets-trade-up-for-qbs-browns-take-chubb-no-1/

I'm imagining heads exploding around here.

yea, i would likely go on a killing spree. . .

CoachChaz
03-15-2018, 09:39 AM
yea, i would likely go on a killing spree. . .

I wouldn't be opposed to Allen...I just dont think we have to give up valuable draft capital to get a quality QB this year. If Allen is there at 5...great. If not, Mayfield is fine. Assuming we go with a QB.

underrated29
03-15-2018, 09:44 AM
With the von restructure we are going qb. I bet it’s rosen.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-15-2018, 10:08 AM
Mock from CBS:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-browns-and-jets-trade-up-for-qbs-browns-take-chubb-no-1/

I'm imagining heads exploding around here.

Even though Allen is my 3rd choice, I’d rather have that draft than waste #5 on a guard. It least it would show that:

A) Elway isn’t resting all our future hopes on Keenum
B) The FO actually is trying to get better more than just save face or their jobs by continuing the Paxton Lynch project.

Rick
03-15-2018, 10:09 AM
With the von restructure we are going qb. I bet it’s rosen.

What does the restructure have to do with a draft pick?

CoachChaz
03-15-2018, 10:11 AM
What does the restructure have to do with a draft pick?

Von's cap hit is higher now in future years, so having a QB on a rookie contract will help financially, as opposed to having to pay top dollar on both sides of the ball.

At least I assume that's where he was going with it.

underrated29
03-15-2018, 11:59 AM
Von's cap hit is higher now in future years, so having a QB on a rookie contract will help financially, as opposed to having to pay top dollar on both sides of the ball.

At least I assume that's where he was going with it.


You got it. I can see them doing the same with DT too, if they wanted. Dropping Keenum 18 mil per, is big savings. But adding vons new cap hit chews that up. A rook QB and a DT restructure, plus some others off the books. I think we are 100% going QB, unless someone makes us such an offer that we just have to take it. I doubt it. Mayfield or Rosen will be the next broncos QB and I bet we trade up (like we always do in rd 1 for him)

Rick
03-15-2018, 12:02 PM
I am not sure they do it for DT as I have a feeling in 2 years they will no longer even have him.

MOtorboat
03-15-2018, 12:02 PM
You got it. I can see them doing the same with DT too, if they wanted. Dropping Keenum 18 mil per, is big savings. But adding vons new cap hit chews that up. A rook QB and a DT restructure, plus some others off the books. I think we are 100% going QB, unless someone makes us such an offer that we just have to take it. I doubt it. Mayfield or Rosen will be the next broncos QB and I bet we trade up (like we always do in rd 1 for him)

Would you trade up to get a quarterback?

MOtorboat
03-15-2018, 12:03 PM
yea, i would likely go on a killing spree. . .

If they got to two and didn't get Rosen, it would upset me.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-15-2018, 12:16 PM
Well, it's absolutely not a dream. It's a nightmare. But it is what's happening. John Elway, in his infinite quarterback wisdom, is going to draft a shorter Colt McCoy at No. 5 overall. It's going to be an utter disaster.

Mayfield has a lot more arm talent than McCoy did.

Poet
03-15-2018, 12:17 PM
Mayfield has a lot more arm talent than McCoy did.

Who was the better pocket passer in your estimation.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-15-2018, 12:22 PM
Who was the better pocket passer in your estimation.

I can’t say for sure, but I am confident in saying he couldn’t push the ball down the field like Mayfield can. It contracts the field for the defense when a guy can’t push the ball down the field.

underrated29
03-15-2018, 12:26 PM
Would you trade up to get a quarterback?

I do not know. I dont. I hate this years draft. I am so torn.


On one hand, I do like Chad Kelly a fair amount and would like to see what he has. So a trade up would be bad.
On another hand, I would love to trade down with the bills or someone. We need a T in the worst way. Getting a T and a LB or someone...There are many good options here.
On (someone elses hand) I think Rosen is by far and away the best QB in this draft. So, if we want a QB of the future he is the guy to me. And to get him we would need to move up to do so.
On (someone elses other hand) I would be ok with Mayfield if he landed to us at 5. I do not want to burn picks to move up. I really want a RB and TE and LB and T from this draft. We have the picks to do so, but not if we move up.

After all of that babbling- If Rosen is the guy, and they see him like I do, yes I would trade up for him. (I think) I hate this draft. Soooo many good players and so many needs to fill. Yes. I have talked myself into it. Trade up for Rosen.

OrangeHoof
03-15-2018, 12:32 PM
Any QB who gives Elway the vapors is good enough for me. If he doesn't want any of them or trades down, I'm okay with that too. Just get us some players that will put us back on top.

dogfish
03-15-2018, 12:42 PM
my brain wants us to trade back. . . my heart wants us to draft nelson so i can watch him mash fools for the next 15 years. . .

:defense:

underrated29
03-15-2018, 01:44 PM
For me its like this. Id be happy with any of these players or combo of these players


Rosen
Mayfield
Chubb
Minkah
Mglichney
Hernandez
Nelson
Vea
Derwin
Roquan
the big white LB (whatever his name is- mini urlacher)
Barkley
Geuce
Michel

Poet
03-15-2018, 01:44 PM
If we got Rosen I would be a happy person.

aberdien
03-15-2018, 02:05 PM
If we got Rosen I would be a happy person.

Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have.

Poet
03-15-2018, 02:29 PM
Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have.

I appreciate what we have properly.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-15-2018, 06:55 PM
my brain wants us to trade back. . . my heart wants us to draft nelson so i can watch him mash fools for the next 15 years. . .

:defense:

Or at least the first 5 and then he’ll price himself out of our range and become a 3rd round comp pick.

dogfish
03-15-2018, 07:06 PM
Or at least the first 5 and then he’ll price himself out of our range and become a 3rd round comp pick.

come on, buddy! i know you don't want him, and that's fine. . . but if a guard is gonna price himself out of our range, what do you think will happen with a quarterback or pass rusher?

:huh:

TXBRONC
03-15-2018, 07:24 PM
If the pick is Mayfield and he doesn't succeed, it's won't have anything to do with him being 6'1".

Poet
03-15-2018, 07:55 PM
come on, buddy! i know you don't want him, and that's fine. . . but if a guard is gonna price himself out of our range, what do you think will happen with a quarterback or pass rusher?

:huh:

Elway will value those guys...unless a career backup in an ideal situation does slightly above average. Then all bets are off!

dogfish
03-15-2018, 07:59 PM
Elway will value those guys...unless a career backup in an ideal situation does slightly above average. Then all bets are off!

for sure. . . if you draft a guy at #5, and he turns into a star, there's most certainly gonna be a plan in place to keep him around. . . i WISH we had so many draft picks panning out that we couldn't afford to keep them all!

Poet
03-15-2018, 08:07 PM
Thanks for humoring me, Fishington.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-15-2018, 08:27 PM
come on, buddy! i know you don't want him, and that's fine. . . but if a guard is gonna price himself out of our range, what do you think will happen with a quarterback or pass rusher?

:huh:

Quarterbacks and pass rushers are franchise players. Guards aren’t. Larry Allen, Steve Hutchinson, Mike Iupati, etc to the beginning of the league, no matter how good they were at their position, was not a “franchise” player. Sure, they were tops at their position and made a good living at it, but they were never enough of an impact player that their respective franchise built around them or that other teams schemed against them.

It’s ridiculous to ever think that a guard is as or ever will be as valuable as a Von Miller or a Peyton Manning or even a Joe Thomas. Playing guard is the absolute least athletic position on the offense. There’s a reason it’s one of the lowest paid positions in the NFL.

Kickers actually make more of a difference in The NFL than guards. They are typically the team’s leading scorer. Why don’t we draft one at 5? Because the value isn’t there. Yes the lack of a halfway decent guard can cause problems to both the run and passing game, but you don’t need “elite” guards to be successful. Overdrafting/Overspending on a guard is like overdrafting/overspending on a kicker.

All I’m saying is don’t let Max Garcia’s shitty play force a ridiculous waste of a top 5 pick. I can almost guarantee there won’t be much difference between Nelson and a guy like Leary at the pro level.

Poet
03-15-2018, 08:31 PM
That boy laid out the facts.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-15-2018, 08:49 PM
i would actually disagree about Allen and Hutchinson. They made a difference. They solidified their respective lines and mowed folks down when pulling to open up huge plays for their runners. We haven't blocked anyone for 3 seasons aside from the first month of 2017. We were as efficient of an offense as we've had in years during that month. We protect the QB, open holes for RBs and keep the defense fresh by moving clock and we are a better team. If it takes a Guard to ensure that, gimme the Guard. Especially when we really don't know what we have at QB because nobody has kept them upright long enough to see what they can do.

Poet
03-15-2018, 08:57 PM
They mattered enough to be signed, but they're not a franchise player. They've not turned a franchise around into a SB contending team. At least not consistently. We know what we have at QB. We have PL, who is stupid. Granted he wants to win, but he's pretty god damn dumb and panics even when he has time. I don't think Kelly's enough of a prospect to warrant taking a bonafide prospect over.

TXBRONC
03-15-2018, 09:26 PM
I put down Mayfield but quite honestly I would be ok with any of them, because a legitimate case be make for any of them. Darnold is one I'm the one I'm the most leery of.

dogfish
03-15-2018, 09:28 PM
larry allen and steve hutchinson weren't foundational players? tell that to emmitt smith and sean alexander, and all the TDs, MVPs and super bowls they racked up running behind those guys. . .

Simple Jaded
03-15-2018, 09:29 PM
#smokescreen

I bet we draft a QB but won't come in the 1st. Surely we have done our homework on the 2nd tier QBs.

Another 2nd tier QB, just what they need.

UnderArmour
03-15-2018, 09:43 PM
Quarterbacks and pass rushers are franchise players. Guards aren’t. Larry Allen, Steve Hutchinson, Mike Iupati, etc to the beginning of the league, no matter how good they were at their position, was not a “franchise” player. Sure, they were tops at their position and made a good living at it, but they were never enough of an impact player that their respective franchise built around them or that other teams schemed against them.

It’s ridiculous to ever think that a guard is as or ever will be as valuable as a Von Miller or a Peyton Manning or even a Joe Thomas. Playing guard is the absolute least athletic position on the offense. There’s a reason it’s one of the lowest paid positions in the NFL.

Kickers actually make more of a difference in The NFL than guards. They are typically the team’s leading scorer. Why don’t we draft one at 5? Because the value isn’t there. Yes the lack of a halfway decent guard can cause problems to both the run and passing game, but you don’t need “elite” guards to be successful. Overdrafting/Overspending on a guard is like overdrafting/overspending on a kicker.

All I’m saying is don’t let Max Garcia’s shitty play force a ridiculous waste of a top 5 pick. I can almost guarantee there won’t be much difference between Nelson and a guy like Leary at the pro level.

Fortunately, with the restructuring of the rookie pay scale it isn't as big of a deal to take a "non-franchise player" with a top 5 pick. If the Broncos brain trust has Nelson rated as an All-Pro player at his position and/or at the top of their draft board, they should absolutely take him. Larry Allen is a Hall of Famer, and paved the way for Emmett Smith and Aikman to lead the Cowboys to multiple Super Bowls. 11 Pro Bowls. Steve Hutchinson changed the fortunes of the Seahawks and the Vikings, paving the way for Shaun Alexander and Adrian Peterson. If Nelson is a guy the Broncos have rated as an immediate Pro Bowl level starter, that's worth a top 5 pick. It's also possible the Broncos have evaluated Nelson like a Brandon Albert, and decide to move him to Tackle. In our case, it's possible he slides right in at RT.

With that said, I expect the Broncos to trade up and take a quarterback.

chazoe60
03-15-2018, 09:55 PM
If the pick is Mayfield and he doesn't succeed, it's won't have anything to do with him being 6'1".

Especially since he's 6'3/8"

;)

chazoe60
03-15-2018, 09:58 PM
As a former HS Guard I feel extremely insulted by some of the comments in this thread. Guards are people too ******s.

TXBRONC
03-15-2018, 10:02 PM
Especially since he's 6'3/8"

;)

I saw a report that he's 6'1".

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/baker-mayfield?id=2560063 :coffee:

chazoe60
03-15-2018, 10:04 PM
I saw a report that he's 6'1".

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/baker-mayfield?id=2560063 :coffee:

When he wears a beanie.

TXBRONC
03-15-2018, 10:11 PM
When he wears a beanie.

Even you're right that he's just a little over 6'O" that still won't determine whether or he's a good player.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-15-2018, 10:15 PM
As a former HS Guard I feel extremely insulted by some of the comments in this thread. Guards are people too ******s.

Of course they are! Ones not athletic enough to play Tackle or smart enough to play Center... :D

Simple Jaded
03-15-2018, 10:15 PM
I’m 6’-1” and I can’t play QB in the NFL.

It’s science TX.

underrated29
03-15-2018, 10:17 PM
I’m with Mo. I thought and wanted Rosen, but it’s going to be mayfield

chazoe60
03-15-2018, 10:18 PM
Of course they are! Ones not athletic enough to play Tackle or smart enough to play Center... :D

I'm deeply offended. BTW in HS football in western Colorado your guards are your best OL. I think that's different than the pros though, unless any NFL team's are running a wing-t offense. :laugh::laugh:

TXBRONC
03-15-2018, 10:19 PM
I’m 6’-1” and I can’t play QB in the NFL.

It’s science TX.

But you're the least athletic person in the entire universe. :D

chazoe60
03-15-2018, 10:20 PM
But you're least athletic person in the entire universe.

Now that Stephen Hawking is gone.


Too soon?

TXBRONC
03-15-2018, 10:24 PM
Now that Stephen Hawking is gone.


Too soon?

Didn't Hawking beat Jaded in one on one basketball game?

Simple Jaded
03-15-2018, 10:24 PM
But you're the least athletic person in the entire universe. :D

I got great arm length, big hands and a solid 40.

Nomad
03-15-2018, 10:25 PM
King....Thank goodness Carson Palmer was the Bengals QBOTF. ;)

TXBRONC
03-15-2018, 10:25 PM
I got great arm length, big hands and a solid 40.

Since when?

Simple Jaded
03-15-2018, 10:25 PM
Didn't Hawking beat Jaded in one on one basketball game?

I had a head cold.

chazoe60
03-15-2018, 10:26 PM
Didn't Hawking beat Jaded in one on one basketball game?

Actually Jaded won by two but only because he kept calling the Hawk for fouls. Hawk was a man though and refused to stoop to that level.

Simple Jaded
03-15-2018, 10:26 PM
Since when?

Since I invented yoga.

Yoga pants, you’re welcome.

chazoe60
03-15-2018, 10:27 PM
Since I invented yoga.

Yoga or yogurt?

Simple Jaded
03-15-2018, 10:27 PM
Actually Jaded won by two but only because he kept calling the Hawk for fouls. Hawk was a man though and refused to stoop to that level.
He kept traveling.

chazoe60
03-15-2018, 10:28 PM
He kept traveling.

I'm pretty sure he dribbled.

TXBRONC
03-15-2018, 10:28 PM
Actually Jaded won by two but only because he kept calling the Hawk for fouls. Hawk was a man though and refused to stoop to that level.

Don't tell him because he still thinks he lost.

Simple Jaded
03-15-2018, 10:29 PM
I'm pretty sure he dribbled.

Drooling and dribbling are two separate things.

TXBRONC
03-15-2018, 10:29 PM
I'm pretty sure he dribbled.

That's why he had bib.

Simple Jaded
03-15-2018, 10:31 PM
Ok, we’re going to hell. Thanks TX.

TXBRONC
03-15-2018, 10:31 PM
Ok, we’re going to hell. Thanks TX.

Not me I"m forgiven.

chazoe60
03-15-2018, 10:31 PM
Drooling and dribbling are two separate things.

Potatoes pahtahtoes they're both vegetables.

Hawgdriver
03-15-2018, 10:37 PM
Ok, we’re going to hell. Thanks TX.

dog posted some a pic, looks legit. let's go.

Simple Jaded
03-15-2018, 10:38 PM
dog posted some a pic, looks legit. let's go.

I’m down, Dave gots the hookers and blow.

chazoe60
03-15-2018, 10:40 PM
I’m down, Dave gots the hookers and blow.

They don't have hookers and blow in Hell, that's Heaven.

Nomad
03-15-2018, 10:41 PM
chazoe & links bonding.

Simple Jaded
03-15-2018, 10:46 PM
They don't have hookers and blow in Hell, that's Heaven.

Then what do they have in hell?

Simple Jaded
03-15-2018, 10:48 PM
chazoe & links bonding.

Chazoe is good peoples, I don’t care what y’all say.

chazoe60
03-15-2018, 11:00 PM
Then what do they have in hell?

Tyler Perry movies on a continuous loop?

Nomad
03-15-2018, 11:04 PM
Chazoe is good peoples, I don’t care what y’all say.

Both of you are good people.

Poet
03-15-2018, 11:06 PM
Both of you are good people.

They really are. Chazoe is rough around the edges but he cares about people. He just wants to lead a quiet life and be with his family. Maybe venture out into the masses if it involves some baseball. That sort of thing.

Jaded is good people in that he's funny as all get out, and he uses it to make a point. He's very sharp, and we never give him credit for that. They're both real splendid men, and this board would suffer without them. I'm glad that they are here.

I hope we can get a first round selection that is tremendous and pleases everyone.

Nomad
03-15-2018, 11:11 PM
They really are. Chazoe is rough around the edges but he cares about people. He just wants to lead a quiet life and be with his family. Maybe venture out into the masses if it involves some baseball. That sort of thing.

Jaded is good people in that he's funny as all get out, and he uses it to make a point. He's very sharp, and we never give him credit for that. They're both real splendid men, and this board would suffer without them. I'm glad that they are here.

I hope we can get a first round selection that is tremendous and pleases everyone.

You're a good guy too, King.

Poet
03-15-2018, 11:14 PM
You're a good guy too, King.

I don't think many would concur, but your kind words are heard and appreciated. A kind word is always heard - my Contracts professor tells us that from time to time. He's a nice guy - brilliant and had a great legal career. I think it bothers him how nasty things can be - but that never stopped him from doing his job at a high level. I try to be like him to a degree. But, the nice thing about life is that you have until the end of it to make improvements.

Hawgdriver
03-15-2018, 11:16 PM
You're a good guy too, King.

I respect how hard he kept pushing the elite QB or die line in the face of the hordes. Took courage.

Poet
03-15-2018, 11:19 PM
I respect how hard he kept pushing the elite QB or die line in the face of the hordes. Took courage.

You're very kind. Very few people agree with me most of the time, and when I'm right I try not to rub it in their faces. I struggle with details and solid vantage points of mine being dismissed, and it just makes me dig my heels in deeper. It's treacherous, though, because if I'm right where's the joy? Oh yay, woohoo, we're struggling. And if I'm wrong, eating crow doesn't matter, because we're doing well and that's fine. I think the real issue is that when you feel the opposite of everyone else, and you want to post, and the contention of the day is what spans the offseason, it's hard to feel like you can be around. Right now it's hard for me to be positive about the team, and I don't believe that positive for the sake of being positive is good. But, at least that way it's easier to be happy.

Nomad
03-15-2018, 11:38 PM
I don't think many would concur, but your kind words are heard and appreciated. A kind word is always heard - my Contracts professor tells us that from time to time. He's a nice guy - brilliant and had a great legal career. I think it bothers him how nasty things can be - but that never stopped him from doing his job at a high level. I try to be like him to a degree. But, the nice thing about life is that you have until the end of it to make improvements.


mi casa es su casa. Let me know when you come up. :)

dogfish
03-15-2018, 11:46 PM
Chazoe is good peoples, I don’t care what y’all say.

whoa, slow down there, big shifter! let's not get too carried away. . .

Simple Jaded
03-16-2018, 02:49 AM
They really are. Chazoe is rough around the edges but he cares about people. He just wants to lead a quiet life and be with his family. Maybe venture out into the masses if it involves some baseball. That sort of thing.

Jaded is good people in that he's funny as all get out, and he uses it to make a point. He's very sharp, and we never give him credit for that. They're both real splendid men, and this board would suffer without them. I'm glad that they are here.

I hope we can get a first round selection that is tremendous and pleases everyone.

I have a No-Trade Clause thanks to my agent.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-16-2018, 09:35 AM
larry allen and steve hutchinson weren't foundational players? tell that to emmitt smith and sean alexander, and all the TDs, MVPs and super bowls they racked up running behind those guys. . .

I know what you’re saying brother, but riddle me this - would it have made a difference if Stink Schlereth had been plugged in over Allen or Hutchinson on those lines? Stink was a solid guard, but not a HOFer, and surely not a highest paid guard in the league type. I don’t think it would’ve made a difference at all.

How about Brian Habib or Dan Neil? Both blocked for TD when he was hands down the best in the league, SB MVP, league MVP, 2000 yd RB caliber. Would you classify them in the same breath as Allen or Hutch? What I’m trying to say is the Oline is a unit and they sink or swim as a unit. Each one typically only can block one guy. Guards are the least important, least talented, and therefore least valuable position of that unit.

If I knew I was getting Larry Allen as a rookie, I still wouldn’t spend the 5th overall pick on him. That’s just how I feel. Yes, Nelson is the safest pick in the draft and has the least bust potential. It doesn’t mean he’s the best pick at that spot. Safest doesn’t mean best. If he was or could be the same guy he is at Tackle as he is at Guard, I’d be all over him like a cheap suit, but it doesn’t do much good to have Nelson block his guy while watching Keenum get repeatedly rocked by Khalil Mack, Melvin Gordon, Joey Bosa, or Justin Houston because we can’t find a RT and don’t have a QB who can overcome that weakness.

Cugel
03-16-2018, 01:44 PM
I know what you’re saying brother, but riddle me this - would it have made a difference if Stink Schlereth had been plugged in over Allen or Hutchinson on those lines? Stink was a solid guard, but not a HOFer, and surely not a highest paid guard in the league type. I don’t think it would’ve made a difference at all.

How about Brian Habib or Dan Neil? Both blocked for TD when he was hands down the best in the league, SB MVP, league MVP, 2000 yd RB caliber. Would you classify them in the same breath as Allen or Hutch? What I’m trying to say is the Oline is a unit and they sink or swim as a unit. Each one typically only can block one guy. Guards are the least important, least talented, and therefore least valuable position of that unit.

If I knew I was getting Larry Allen as a rookie, I still wouldn’t spend the 5th overall pick on him. That’s just how I feel. Yes, Nelson is the safest pick in the draft and has the least bust potential. It doesn’t mean he’s the best pick at that spot. Safest doesn’t mean best. If he was or could be the same guy he is at Tackle as he is at Guard, I’d be all over him like a cheap suit, but it doesn’t do much good to have Nelson block his guy while watching Keenum get repeatedly rocked by Khalil Mack, Melvin Gordon, Joey Bosa, or Justin Houston because we can’t find a RT and don’t have a QB who can overcome that weakness.

Kinda depends on who else is available at #5 and whether the Broncos have decided to take a QB or not.

One image I have in my mind is Keenum being rushed (because both Ts are at best mediocre) but being able to step up in the pocket and just stand behind Nelson who will not be bull-rushed by anybody, survey the field and throw the ball safely.

That would be worth a lot. The old days when G's were undervalued in the NFL is over. Nelson will go in the top 10 and possibly the top 5. He's that good.

Personally, I don't have a fixed opinion who the Broncos should draft at #5. I would like to see them strengthen the OL but WR, RB, G, T, CB, DT, TE are all positions of need.

Depending on whether they stay put or move back they could get a guy at any of these positions.

Cugel
03-16-2018, 01:47 PM
Here's CBS Sports Will Brenson's Mock Draft. He has the Giants taking Nelson at #2:


2. New York Giants

Quenton Nelson, OL, Notre Dame: Dave Gettleman is going to stay here and take a blue-chip player who can help the Giants right away. It will either be Nelson or Barkley, and after missing out on Andrew Norwell in free agency, he leans for the nasty Notre Dame guard.

I don't insist this is right (I think he's wrong), but it is interesting that national media are touting Nelson so highly. That probably means teams are thinking about him as a top 10 pick.

slim
03-16-2018, 02:00 PM
Here's CBS Sports Will Brenson's Mock Draft. He has the Giants taking Nelson at #2:


I don't insist this is right (I think he's wrong), but it is interesting that national media are touting Nelson so highly. That probably means teams are thinking about him as a top 10 pick.

Cugel, you are a good person.

Poet
03-16-2018, 02:47 PM
larry allen and steve hutchinson weren't foundational players? tell that to emmitt smith and sean alexander, and all the TDs, MVPs and super bowls they racked up running behind those guys. . .

How many good guards were there compared to how many backs were capable, great line or not, of having a MVP season? Actually, how many MVP seasons are guards or tackles going to get?

You can have Larry Allen or Dan Marino? You pick. You can have Hutchinson or Terrell Davis, you pick.

No one's taking Allen over Marino. No one's taking Hutchinson over Davis.

Now, you can have either of those guards, or you can have Rivers, a guy who has been great, who has put up stats with horrid lines, and is a full blown competitor. I doubt you take the guard over them. And if the response is 'Well, Rivers' is just a really good QB," or something like that, don't lie, you'd have to stop and think about it.

Everyone just assumes that Nelson will pan out because he's a super talent. Who hasn't seen super talent crash and burn? Again, about five years ago the best guard prospect ever was thought to be Cooper, from UNC. I think he's been on at least two teams now. You wanna sell me on Nelson having a higher success rate/lower bust chance, sure. But let's be honest, if you have a QB who has the physical tools to be great, and he has the mental tools to be great, and you need a QB, to just instantly take the guard is foolish.

Yeah, the QB can bust. But the guard can be great and mean nothing in regards to wins and losses not just because he's a lowly guard, but because he's an offensive lineman. The equation, my friend is this: is the risk of the higher bust rate of the QB outweighing the value of the 'certainty' of the guard'? And quite simply, the answer is more difficult than anyone wants to admit.

Nomad
03-16-2018, 02:53 PM
Your #5 pick should be a day 1 starter, not a bench warmer for 2-3 yrs hoping they develop.

Poet
03-16-2018, 02:55 PM
Your #5 pick should be a day 1 starter, not a bench warmer for 2-3 yrs hoping they develop.

Exactly - so go out there and get Rosen or Mayfield, because those are day one starters.

WARHORSE
03-16-2018, 10:30 PM
Your #5 pick should be a day 1 starter, not a bench warmer for 2-3 yrs hoping they develop.

So should we draft Chubb or Barkley over a QB knowing right now knowing that we are unsure at the QB position, the most important position? We are at the top of the draft......we ALL know the penalty of picking at the top of the draft: Enduring a brutal season.

No matter where we pick, every single pick is a gamble. We don't know which picks will pan out. This has been proven with 'cant miss' prospects over and over again.


We do not have (to our knowledge) a franchise QB right now and its a must. Upper echelon at the least in order to compete for titles.


End of story.

Its not only trying to win this season......but into the future. You need a top QB to do that.


So I think John will "swing for the fences".

Nomad
03-16-2018, 10:56 PM
So should we draft Chubb or Barkley over a QB knowing right now knowing that we are unsure at the QB position, the most important position? We are at the top of the draft......we ALL know the penalty of picking at the top of the draft: Enduring a brutal season.

No matter where we pick, every single pick is a gamble. We don't know which picks will pan out. This has been proven with 'cant miss' prospects over and over again.


We do not have (to our knowledge) a franchise QB right now and its a must. Upper echelon at the least in order to compete for titles.


End of story.

Its not only trying to win this season......but into the future. You need a top QB to do that.


So I think John will "swing for the fences".

Is this a QB class to hang your #5 pick on because of desperation, or take a for-sure impact player (BPA)? If a QB is picked, they better start from day 1. I'll take a Nelson at 5 and find a way to get Rudolph.

Jsteve01
03-17-2018, 09:43 AM
Hopefully we can settle into a system and see if there is anything there with Lynch. Again everybody's riding the kid off but he's been in three systems in three years plus he had injuries last season. More and more I'm leaning towards Bradley Chubb. I can't imagine pairing hymn with Von. I posted a video in the draft forum of him literally dismantling and physically dominating mcglinchey and Nelson. Last year. I just think if you have a generational pass rushing talent and you're not 100% sold on a quarterback I go for the pass rusher especially to to pair with Von

Northman
03-17-2018, 09:52 AM
Is this a QB class to hang your #5 pick on because of desperation, or take a for-sure impact player (BPA)? If a QB is picked, they better start from day 1. I'll take a Nelson at 5 and find a way to get Rudolph.

If Denver takes a QB they wont start him day one, not with the signing of Keenum (unless it plays out like Flynn/Wilson in Seattle which is rare).

Simple Jaded
03-17-2018, 11:00 AM
If Denver takes a QB they wont start him day one, not with the signing of Keenum (unless it plays out like Flynn/Wilson in Seattle which is rare).
Let’s be brutally honest here, if it were to happen again it be to a QB that’s as marginally talented as Case Keenum .

aberdien
03-17-2018, 11:04 AM
Too competitive for the top 4 QBs and not worth it IMO, so I say we go best player on the board and trade up/hope Mason Rudolph falls into our lap in the 2nd.

But we will probably take Baker.

Buff
03-17-2018, 11:10 AM
I'd be thrilled with Chubb or Nelson. Nelson would immediately fill a giant need and Chubb would make the entire defense better...

If they're both sitting there I think you have to take Chubb just due to the value of the position.

Nomad
03-17-2018, 11:17 AM
I'd be thrilled with Chubb or Nelson. Nelson would immediately fill a giant need and Chubb would make the entire defense better...

If they're both sitting there I think you have to take Chubb just due to the value of the position.

Both, the pass rush and pass protection, was less than desirable last year. Elway needs to work his magic, and fix both problems. I'd be fine with either one.

Poet
03-17-2018, 11:22 AM
If we're going to overdraft a guard, might as well just trade back. I could live with a pass rusher, though.

aberdien
03-17-2018, 11:23 AM
I think we should trade up to #1 to draft Nelson. Give guards the respect they deserve.

Poet
03-17-2018, 11:23 AM
Too competitive for the top 4 QBs and not worth it IMO, so I say we go best player on the board and trade up/hope Mason Rudolph falls into our lap in the 2nd.

But we will probably take Baker.

We were 5-11 and our defense has gotten older. I respectfully disagree.

Rudolph would be a disaster. Between him and CK, we would continue to kick the can down the road. We'd be drafting M.R. just to feel better about not actually doing anything meaningful with the QB position.

Ugh.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-17-2018, 11:33 AM
I'd be thrilled with Chubb or Nelson. Nelson would immediately fill a giant need and Chubb would make the entire defense better...

If they're both sitting there I think you have to take Chubb just due to the value of the position.

I agree except I don’t see Guard as a “giant” need. We don’t need another high priced guard. We need to slap our coaching staff around and stop giving Max Garcia the start at LG. Move Leary back to LG, have McGovern start at RG and I am positive there will be improvement there. Stop coddling shit players and replace them with competent ones already on the roster (like we finally did replacing McKenzie with Taylor).

Our biggest position of need is RT. If Nelson could be that guy then take him. If not, better to take Chubb or trade down.

Simple Jaded
03-17-2018, 11:41 AM
We were 5-11 and our defense has gotten older. I respectfully disagree.

Rudolph would be a disaster. Between him and CK, we would continue to kick the can down the road. We'd be drafting M.R. just to feel better about not actually doing anything meaningful with the QB position.

Ugh.

Defense has gotten older and far less talented, with the Talibing trade. We simply can’t assume this is a Top 10 defense anymore, maybe in yards allowed but nothing meaningful.

Poet
03-17-2018, 11:42 AM
Defense has gotten older and far less talented, with the Talibing trade. We simply can’t assume this is a Top 10 defense anymore, maybe in yards allowed but nothing meaningful.

We sorry.

Simple Jaded
03-17-2018, 11:42 AM
We sorry.

I’m sorry.

MOtorboat
03-17-2018, 11:43 AM
Maybe they can draft Browning next year with their top 10 pick.

Nomad
03-17-2018, 11:46 AM
Maybe they can draft Browning next year with their top 10 pick.

Isn't that what's expected, by many, as long as VJ is the HC?

SmilinAssasSin27
03-17-2018, 11:59 AM
Jets just jumped ahead of us. Gotta be for a QB.

Nomad
03-17-2018, 12:03 PM
Jets just jumped ahead of us. Gotta be for a QB.

There goes King's Rosen pick. :lol:

UnderArmour
03-17-2018, 12:07 PM
Colts trading to 6 changes everything. Browns are locked in on a quarterback at 1, most likely Darnold or Allen. Giants are locked in at a quarterback at 2, most likely Rosen or Darnold. Jets take a quarterback. Browns at 4 might trade back, otherwise Barkley. I wholeheartedly expect all four quarterback to be gone in the top 5 this year. Which leaves the Broncos with many interesting options:
1. At pick 5, take the last quarterback. Consensus and draft boards differ, but all of the big 4 QBs definitely have first round grades. Lamar Jackson potentially also has a first round grade from many teams, and will also be a first round pick.
2. If all the quarterbacks are off the table, the Broncos effectively have the #1 overall pick, and can take Barkley for themselves or trade back.
3. The Broncos can trade back. Whether a quarterback is there or not, the pick will fetch some kind of haul. Based on the Jets trade, potentially even an insane trade package from Arizona or Buffalo.
4. The Broncos can trade up with the Browns to 4, in fear they get jumped by another team. This is a likely scenario if the Broncos are sold on this year's draft class.

Indy(6), Tampa(7), Chicago(8), San Fran(9), and Oakland(10) are all going to take non-quarterbacks. Buffalo is going to have to blow them away, and while a package of picks by the draft value chart might be enough from 12(1200), 22(780), 53(370), 56(340) to jump to pick 4 (1800), that went out the window with today's trade of pick 3 (2200) for 6 (1600), 37(530), 49 (410), AND a 2019 second(We'll say 265). The Jets gave a whopping value of 2705 to jump us and the #4 pick. If Buffalo is to do the same, it'll be their first two rounds and something else. For Indy, it was an easy decision to go back to 6 because worst case for them is ending up with whoever is left from Nelson, Barkley, or Chubb, or being able to trade back again to Arizona or Buffalo. For Cleveland, trading back to 12 means losing out on a top 5 player so I just don't see it happening.

Nomad
03-17-2018, 12:10 PM
I don't see any player in this draft worth trading up for from #5, especially any of these Qbs.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-17-2018, 12:13 PM
I think Barkley goes 1 and Cleveland takes their pick of the 2 remaining QBs

HORSEPOWER 56
03-17-2018, 12:44 PM
I think Barkley goes 1 and Cleveland takes their pick of the 2 remaining QBs

I don’t. They might take him at #4 if he’s still there, but the fact that they spent 5 mil per on Carlos Hyde means they aren’t guaranteeing themselves Barkley. I can’t imagine Dorsey is foolish enough to potentially let 2 of the top 4 QBs slip away. The Browns will have their order of preference for QBs and I doubt they’ll be the guys thinking that “whoever is left is fine”.

They haven’t had a true franchise QB since their inception as an expansion franchise. I can’t imagine they’ll take the risk of bypassing QB once again to have to settle for their 3rd or 4th choice. They have their pick of the litter. Why risk it for a RB that, no matter how good he may be, likely has a shelf life of 6-7 years, less if he gets injured. The Vikings had Peterson in his prime and a good defense. How many Championships did they contend for? You have to have that franchise QB first. Peterson was the greatest RB since the millennium (and I think was better than Barkley will be) but he wasn’t more instrumental to his team than a top 10 QB would be. If you think one of the guys in the draft is the next PFM, or Brady, or Brees, or whoever. You must take him.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-17-2018, 12:51 PM
Hyde is hot trash. They also traded for a QB. All Cleveland did was deepen the roster so they could allow themselves draft day flexibility. Someone wants pick 1? Sure thing. They at least signed an average RB since Crowell moved on. The QB they liked best is gone by 4? No big deal. Taylor can hold down the fort for a season. Barkley is a ridiculous talent...2 levels above the others. The 4 QBs at the top are seemingly all on the same plane as no consensus#1 has been determined.

Northman
03-17-2018, 12:56 PM
Not sure if Cleveland goes RB with the #1 overall but i dont think Hyde is garbage either. But he is no Barkley but Cleveland still needs the best QB possible so i just dont see them risking a chance to miss out on the guy they like best.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-17-2018, 01:02 PM
Hyde has yet to hit 1000 yards in a season. No matter how bad your team is, you should be able to eclipse 63 yards per game if you are the starter. I really think he sucks.

Northman
03-17-2018, 01:08 PM
Hyde has yet to hit 1000 yards in a season. No matter how bad your team is, you should be able to eclipse 63 yards per game if you are the starter. I really think he sucks.

Wasnt he hurt some of the season?

SmilinAssasSin27
03-17-2018, 01:13 PM
Wasnt he hurt some of the season?

He played all 16 this year and 13 or 14 games in 2016.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-17-2018, 01:14 PM
Hyde is hot trash. They also traded for a QB. All Cleveland did was deepen the roster so they could allow themselves draft day flexibility. Someone wants pick 1? Sure thing. They at least signed an average RB since Crowell moved on. The QB they liked best is gone by 4? No big deal. Taylor can hold down the fort for a season. Barkley is a ridiculous talent...2 levels above the others. The 4 QBs at the top are seemingly all on the same plane as no consensus#1 has been determined.

You’re right about one thing, Taylor is there to “hold down the fort” until the guy they draft is ready, especially if it’s a guy like Allen who might not be ready day 1.

Let me ask you, SA, if you’re Cleveland, do you take Barkley at #1? With the depth at RB in this draft? Knowing that RBs are at best a 6-7 year rental? Also knowing you might be looking at the 2 guys you rated much less than the ones already off the board?

SmilinAssasSin27
03-17-2018, 01:24 PM
You’re right about one thing, Taylor is there to “hold down the fort” until the guy they draft is ready, especially if it’s a guy like Allen who might not be ready day 1.

Let me ask you, SA, if you’re Cleveland, do you take Barkley at #1? With the depth at RB in this draft? Knowing that RBs are at best a 6-7 year rental?

Great question. I think he is the best player in the draft hand down. But I likely don't take him. I personally woulda kept Crowell. Look at the last half dozen champs. Did any of em have franchise RBs? Unfortunately the position isn't as valuable as it historically has been. He would clearly make them better but he doesn't fit what i believe the championship formula currently is:

1-Good if not great QB
2-Outstanding oline play
3- A stable of good weapons everywhere on offense and not necessarily1 great weapon. Pay less for more.
4-A D that can hold up and be scheme diverse.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-17-2018, 02:14 PM
Great question. I think he is the best player in the draft hand down. But I likely don't take him. I personally woulda kept Crowell. Look at the last half dozen champs. Did any of em have franchise RBs? Unfortunately the position isn't as valuable as it historically has been. He would clearly make them better but he doesn't fit what i believe the championship formula currently is:

1-Good if not great QB
2-Outstanding oline play
3- A stable of good weapons everywhere on offense and not necessarily1 great weapon. Pay less for more.
4-A D that can hold up and be scheme diverse.

I agree with you and I think that Dorsey isn’t about being the same old Browns. I think he’s gonna get his QB this time. One he is sure can be the franchise. Whether that QB is great or not remains to be seen, but the last thing that organization needs is another year with another guy they took a flyer on at QB. I think there’s no way they just “settle” for a QB. Hell if all the pundits. out there are correct and 3 QBs come off the board 1, 2, 3, Barkley will still be there at 4 anyway.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-17-2018, 02:26 PM
I agree with you and I think that Dorsey isn’t about being the same old Browns. I think he’s gonna get his QB this time. One he is sure can be the franchise. Whether that QB is great or not remains to be seen, but the last thing that organization needs is another year with another guy they took a flyer on at QB. I think there’s no way they just “settle” for a QB. Hell if all the pundits. out there are correct and 3 QBs come off the board 1, 2, 3, Barkley will still be there at 4 anyway.

But if they truly like 3 of the QBs...then they are still guaranteed one of them in the 4 spot.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-17-2018, 03:38 PM
But if they truly like 3 of the QBs...then they are still guaranteed one of them in the 4 spot.

But wouldn’t you rather get “your guy”? I mean I’m sure you have a list, everyone does, based on what they’ve seen or know so far from the combine, pro days, tape, etc. Settling at QB is dumb if you don’t have to. Let’s say they wait until 4 and Darnold and Rosen are gone. They take Allen and he busts but Rosen and Darnold are great. They knew, and everyone else knew Allen was a project and the other two were better but they let the shiny object (Barkley) that they could’ve had at 4 anyway distract them.

The Jets sure as shit didn't trade up for Barkley. That leaves maybe the Giants as the only other competitors for him unless they trade out, so 50/50 chance he’ll still be there? I’d take those odds. Geez the Browns have such great position and so many picks they could draft Nick Chubb and Sony Michel back to back in the second and just roll with the Bulldog backfield. I’d take that over Barkley 100% of the time.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-17-2018, 03:55 PM
Again...depends on how they view these guys. I'm sure they have a favorite, but it's very possible the separation between the top guys is negligible in their eyes. They may not seeing it as settling. They may see it as ensuring a stud at 1 all the while still getting a highly valued QB at 4.

I also think NYG would take a seriously long look at Barkley so I'm not sure he's there at 4. You're talking 1 RB vs 4 QB options. IF they do like them pretty equally, they shouldn't risk losing the stud...be it Barkley, Chubb, Nelson etc. I just personally think it would be Barkley.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-17-2018, 03:57 PM
Don't forget that Cleveland ownership includes a meddling idiot. Common sense and logic haven't lead the way in quite a long time.

UnderArmour
03-17-2018, 04:09 PM
There is actually now a realistic scenario where quarterbacks go 1-4, and the Broncos end up with Barkley.

Nomad
03-17-2018, 04:16 PM
There is actually now a realistic scenario where quarterbacks go 1-4, and the Broncos end up with Barkley.

At least Barkley would come in and be an impact player, and not a project.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-17-2018, 04:30 PM
There is actually now a realistic scenario where quarterbacks go 1-4, and the Broncos end up with Barkley.

Does this scenario include Cleveland Taking a QB at 1 and deal 4 to Buffalo?

OrangeHoof
03-17-2018, 04:31 PM
I'm fairly certain the Browns won't take two QBs in the first round so one can presume they will take their highest-rated QB at #1 (IMO, they'll want Mayfield) which leaves the two New York teams opting for the Pac-12 Twins. Browns likely take Barkley at #4 which leaves us with a four options:

Chubb (many claim the best player in the draft)
Nelson (many believe the best OL in a long time)
Allen (the last of the Top 4 and the most raw, both in talent and experience)
Trade Down (get a pair of first-rounders from Buffalo and likely take QB and OT with their two picks)

Yes, Cleveland could trade down and someone jump us for the last QB, but if that happens, I just add Barkley to my list of options and subtract Allen. I would resist the temptation to jump to #4 or higher.

If the draft falls out and we are left with Barkley, Chubb or Nelson, how could we argue we weren't getting a top talent?

aberdien
03-17-2018, 04:54 PM
There is actually now a realistic scenario where quarterbacks go 1-4, and the Broncos end up with Barkley.

I still think the Giants will look very closely at Barkley. Eli is old but if they feel like they just need some tools around him to succeed and "win now" then I would bet they get Barkley.

1. QB
2. Barkley or QB
3. QB
4. Barkley or QB
5. QB or BPA

I'll take Barkley at 5 if he drops, but I kinda feel like the Giants will take him #2 since QB is not an immediate need for them. This leaves 1 QB left at #5, and if it's Baker Mayfield I bet Elway takes him.

Poet
03-17-2018, 04:56 PM
At least Barkley would come in and be an impact player, and not a project.

He wouldn't be a project, just like Rosen or Mayfield.

UnderArmour
03-17-2018, 05:47 PM
Does this scenario include Cleveland Taking a QB at 1 and deal 4 to Buffalo?

Obviously. No team is taking 2 QBs first round. This ain't Madden.

Miami or Arizona are also potential teams to move up to 4.

MOtorboat
03-17-2018, 06:25 PM
Obviously. No team is taking 2 QBs first round. This ain't Madden.

Miami or Arizona are also potential teams to move up to 4.

Why would you even do that in Madden?

:confused:

UnderArmour
03-17-2018, 06:29 PM
Why would you even do that in Madden?

:confused:

Because I turned the trade deadline off and have the top 20 picks from ripping teams off duh.

Poet
03-17-2018, 06:31 PM
Cowboys did it once. Derped into good fortune for them.

TXBRONC
03-17-2018, 06:44 PM
Cowboys did it once. Derped into good fortune for them.

If you're talking about when took Troy Aikman and Steve Walsh that not exactly the same thing. Aikman was the number one pick in the draft and Walsh was second pick taken in the supplemental draft. Technically, he was the 29th pick in the first round. That's not exactly the same taking them at picks one and four.

Poet
03-17-2018, 07:07 PM
If you're talking about when took Troy Aikman and Steve Walsh that not exactly the same thing. Aikman was the number one pick in the draft and Walsh was second pick taken in the supplemental draft. Technically, he was the 29th pick in the first round. That's not exactly the same taking them at picks one and four.

I was just saying first rounders is all.

sneakers
03-18-2018, 06:09 AM
yer mom lol

Hawgdriver
03-18-2018, 09:12 AM
yer mom lol

ikr

Cugel
03-20-2018, 01:06 PM
Interesting if True: Rumor (reported by Cecil Lammey) that the Jets moved up to #3 to get Baker Mayfield ahead of the Broncos and prevent the Browns from taking Barkley at #1 and a QB at #4.

The Colts are said to want Chubb, and be certain that the Browns and Broncos won't take him, thus he would be available at #6. They are probably right, since the Browns and Broncos desperately need Offensive talent and the Broncos have Von Miller and Shane Ray as their outside pass-rushers.

So, they trade back with the Jets who take Mayfield. That means (if rumor is correct): a QB, probably Darnold to Cleveland at #1, Barkley to the Giants at #2, Mayfield at #3 to the Jets and then Cleveland tries to trade down to a team (Bills, Broncos, Cardinals) who want Allen.

In this scenario the most painless trade for the Browns would be to slide back 1 spot so Elway gets Allen, since they get a pick essentially for nothing. Elway would have to trade up IF he wanted Allen, because otherwise the Browns would trade down with the Bills or Cardinals.

Don't know if this is more than mere rumor of course. And it could be a smoke-screen that Josh Rosen is sliding down the board, but it's happened before. Aaron Rogers wasn't supposed to slide all the way to #24 to the Packers, but he did.

Cugel
03-20-2018, 01:08 PM
IF (IF) the rumor is true, then Darnold, Mayfield and Allen and Barkley would be off the boards by #5, leaving Nelson or Rosen or Minkah Fitzpatrick as the obvious choices at #5.

Buff
03-20-2018, 01:16 PM
Interesting if True: Rumor (reported by Cecil Lammey) that the Jets moved up to #3 to get Baker Mayfield ahead of the Broncos and prevent the Browns from taking Barkley at #1 and a QB at #4.

The Colts are said to want Chubb, and be certain that the Browns and Broncos won't take him, thus he would be available at #6. They are probably right, since the Browns and Broncos desperately need Offensive talent and the Broncos have Von Miller and Shane Ray as their outside pass-rushers.

So, they trade back with the Jets who take Mayfield. That means (if rumor is correct): a QB, probably Darnold to Cleveland at #1, Barkley to the Giants at #2, Mayfield at #3 to the Jets and then Cleveland tries to trade down to a team (Bills, Broncos, Cardinals) who want Allen.

In this scenario the most painless trade for the Browns would be to slide back 1 spot so Elway gets Allen, since they get a pick essentially for nothing. Elway would have to trade up IF he wanted Allen, because otherwise the Browns would trade down with the Bills or Cardinals.

Don't know if this is more than mere rumor of course. And it could be a smoke-screen that Josh Rosen is sliding down the board, but it's happened before. Aaron Rogers wasn't supposed to slide all the way to #24 to the Packers, but he did.

Manish Mehta, the Jets beat reporter, has said that the Jets believe there is a dropoff after Darnold, Rosen and Allen... Not that we can really believe anybody this time of year - but I trust their beat reporter to be more plugged in than Lammey.

Also, just following my own eye test, I don't see how Mayfield goes as a top 5 guy. He seems to be the likeliest candidate to slide with the three other prototypical QBs all there.

slim
03-20-2018, 01:17 PM
Interesting if True: Rumor (reported by Cecil Lammey) that the Jets moved up to #3 to get Baker Mayfield ahead of the Broncos and prevent the Browns from taking Barkley at #1 and a QB at #4.

The Colts are said to want Chubb, and be certain that the Browns and Broncos won't take him, thus he would be available at #6. They are probably right, since the Browns and Broncos desperately need Offensive talent and the Broncos have Von Miller and Shane Ray as their outside pass-rushers.

So, they trade back with the Jets who take Mayfield. That means (if rumor is correct): a QB, probably Darnold to Cleveland at #1, Barkley to the Giants at #2, Mayfield at #3 to the Jets and then Cleveland tries to trade down to a team (Bills, Broncos, Cardinals) who want Allen.

In this scenario the most painless trade for the Browns would be to slide back 1 spot so Elway gets Allen, since they get a pick essentially for nothing. Elway would have to trade up IF he wanted Allen, because otherwise the Browns would trade down with the Bills or Cardinals.

Don't know if this is more than mere rumor of course. And it could be a smoke-screen that Josh Rosen is sliding down the board, but it's happened before. Aaron Rogers wasn't supposed to slide all the way to #24 to the Packers, but he did.

So, you are not sure if this multifaceted, unbelievable and ridiculous idea is mere rumor?

It’s tough to say, of course. I mean, Cecil does have ESP and a crystal ball.

TXBRONC
03-20-2018, 01:51 PM
So, you are not sure if this multifaceted, unbelievable and ridiculous idea is mere rumor?

It’s tough to say, of course. I mean, Cecil does have ESP and a crystal ball.

Slim you are like sunshine on a rainy day. :salute:

TXBRONC
03-20-2018, 01:58 PM
Interesting if True: Rumor (reported by Cecil Lammey) that the Jets moved up to #3 to get Baker Mayfield ahead of the Broncos and prevent the Browns from taking Barkley at #1 and a QB at #4.

The Colts are said to want Chubb, and be certain that the Browns and Broncos won't take him, thus he would be available at #6. They are probably right, since the Browns and Broncos desperately need Offensive talent and the Broncos have Von Miller and Shane Ray as their outside pass-rushers.

So, they trade back with the Jets who take Mayfield. That means (if rumor is correct): a QB, probably Darnold to Cleveland at #1, Barkley to the Giants at #2, Mayfield at #3 to the Jets and then Cleveland tries to trade down to a team (Bills, Broncos, Cardinals) who want Allen.

In this scenario the most painless trade for the Browns would be to slide back 1 spot so Elway gets Allen, since they get a pick essentially for nothing. Elway would have to trade up IF he wanted Allen, because otherwise the Browns would trade down with the Bills or Cardinals.

Don't know if this is more than mere rumor of course. And it could be a smoke-screen that Josh Rosen is sliding down the board, but it's happened before. Aaron Rogers wasn't supposed to slide all the way to #24 to the Packers, but he did.

I don't think the Jets at 3 prevents Cleveland from doing whatever they want. When a team has the number one and the number four overall picks it seems to me you pretty much in control of the top end of the draft.

turftoad
03-20-2018, 02:15 PM
IF (IF) the rumor is true, then Darnold, Mayfield and Allen and Barkley would be off the boards by #5, leaving Nelson or Rosen or Minkah Fitzpatrick as the obvious choices at #5.

Chubb??
Miller isn't a spring chicken anymore and Ray haven't really proven to be an impact player as of yet.
Nelson would be a starter for 10'years,
IMO, after signing Kennum, there is no way we take a QB.

dogfish
03-20-2018, 02:17 PM
Slim you are like sunshine on a rainy day. :salute:

perhaps the best analogy for slim we've heard around here. . .

CoachChaz
03-20-2018, 03:33 PM
Chubb??
Miller isn't a spring chicken anymore and Ray haven't really proven to be an impact player as of yet.
Nelson would be a starter for 10'years,
IMO, after signing Kennum, there is no way we take a QB.

Yeah, but Chubb doesn't have much experience as a 3-4 Edge guy. Despite his weight, I think he is more designed as a 4-3 DE. I literally have no clue how he'd do in pass coverage.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-20-2018, 03:47 PM
Yeah, but Chubb doesn't have much experience as a 3-4 Edge guy. Despite his weight, I think he is more designed as a 4-3 DE. I literally have no clue how he'd do in pass coverage.

Couldn’t do any worse than Ray or Barrett... ;)

underrated29
03-20-2018, 04:15 PM
Chubb would be just fine in a 34. He is what, like 10 lbs heavier than demarcus ware was? He could drop a few if needed, but we line up in odd fronts and whatnot all the time anyway. He would be amazing. We need that second pass rusher, especially if VJ gets his head out of his ass and puts demarcus walker back on the line! Where he belongs!

SmilinAssasSin27
03-20-2018, 04:35 PM
Liar season

dogfish
03-20-2018, 04:37 PM
Liar season

and i don't think we've gotten a single "and the peasants rejoiced!" out of you yet. . . what gives?

SmilinAssasSin27
03-20-2018, 04:39 PM
and i don't think we've gotten a single "and the peasants rejoiced!" out of you yet. . . what gives?

Biding my time. Eventually the team will do something so exceptionally blah that I will be unable to control myself.

dogfish
03-20-2018, 04:42 PM
Biding my time. Eventually the team will do something so exceptionally blah that I will be unable to control myself.

lol! if billy turner didn't qualify, i don't know what you're waiting for. . .

OrangeHoof
03-20-2018, 05:17 PM
Interesting if True: Rumor (reported by Cecil Lammey) that the Jets moved up to #3 to get Baker Mayfield ahead of the Broncos and prevent the Browns from taking Barkley at #1 and a QB at #4.

The Colts are said to want Chubb, and be certain that the Browns and Broncos won't take him, thus he would be available at #6. They are probably right, since the Browns and Broncos desperately need Offensive talent and the Broncos have Von Miller and Shane Ray as their outside pass-rushers.

So, they trade back with the Jets who take Mayfield. That means (if rumor is correct): a QB, probably Darnold to Cleveland at #1, Barkley to the Giants at #2, Mayfield at #3 to the Jets and then Cleveland tries to trade down to a team (Bills, Broncos, Cardinals) who want Allen.

In this scenario the most painless trade for the Browns would be to slide back 1 spot so Elway gets Allen, since they get a pick essentially for nothing. Elway would have to trade up IF he wanted Allen, because otherwise the Browns would trade down with the Bills or Cardinals.

Don't know if this is more than mere rumor of course. And it could be a smoke-screen that Josh Rosen is sliding down the board, but it's happened before. Aaron Rogers wasn't supposed to slide all the way to #24 to the Packers, but he did.

So the downside is we get *stuck* with taking Josh Rosen at #5. Hot damn! I'd tell the Browns to keep their pick at #4 because our options are Rosen, Allen or the best OL on the board and I can live with all three.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-20-2018, 05:19 PM
QB who gets concussed behind a shat oline. Sign me up!

OrangeHoof
03-20-2018, 05:20 PM
Slim you are like sunshine on a rainy day. :salute:

When it's cold outside, he's like the month of May.
I guess you'd say, what could make him feel this way...

BroncoJoe
03-20-2018, 05:21 PM
When it's cold outside, he's like the month of May.
I guess you'd say, what could make him feel this way...

My slim?

Timmy!
03-20-2018, 05:23 PM
Nellllllllllllllson.

dogfish
03-20-2018, 05:27 PM
Nellllllllllllllson.

#MashFacesIn'18

Timmy!
03-20-2018, 05:28 PM
#MashFacesIn'18

Bolles + Nelson + jano lead block.

#werunningleftbitches

Poet
03-20-2018, 05:41 PM
Running right into a string of 6-to-8 win seasons while we flounder without a QB.

Timmy!
03-20-2018, 05:44 PM
Running right into a string of 6-to-8 win seasons while we flounder without a QB.

#Rosennothappening
#Kingsorry
#thisisacaseforkeenum

Hawgdriver
03-20-2018, 05:46 PM
Running right into a string of 6-to-8 win seasons while we flounder without a QB.

Reading comprehension fail. Janovich is a fullback. F U L L - back. Not capable of half-measures or half-assery or half-way winning championships. Plus, and I won't hold this against you as you may not be aware, he wears overalls without a shirt. Holding a gun standing over something he killed with his iron will. That's good for at least 9 wins alone.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-20-2018, 05:47 PM
Nellllllllllllllson.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.fjcdn.com%2Fpic tures%2FRip%2Bnelson%2Bmandella%2Bgod%2Bbless%2Bne lson%2Bmandella%2Bthe%2Bman%2Bwho_aa81de_4915836.j pg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Ffunnyjunk.com%2FRip%2Bnelso n%2Bmandella%2Ffunny-pictures%2F4916280%2F&docid=BAD_TbhxZFkmZM&tbnid=RyOOt6NpBV9uoM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjH3p_a_fvZAhUT92MKHcO4B2QQMwhuKAIwAg.. i&w=214&h=235&hl=en-us&client=safari&bih=553&biw=375&q=mandella&ved=0ahUKEwjH3p_a_fvZAhUT92MKHcO4B2QQMwhuKAIwAg&iact=mrc&uact=8

Timmy!
03-20-2018, 05:49 PM
Reading comprehension fail. Janovich is a fullback. F U L L - back. Not capable of half-measures or half-assery or half-way winning championships. Plus, and I won't hold this against you as you may not be aware, he wears overalls without a shirt. Holding a gun standing over something he killed with his iron will. That's good for at least 9 wins alone.

He is also Mo's favorite player of all time. The joyful shriek he lets out when our glorious fullback enters the game is truly one of natures spectacles.

Poet
03-20-2018, 05:54 PM
Fullbacks are waste of roster slots.

dogfish
03-20-2018, 06:07 PM
fullbacks are the straw that stirs the drank. . .

Poet
03-20-2018, 06:09 PM
fullbacks are the straw that stirs the drank. . .

At the bar, not at the game, because like four teams have one. :lol:

MOtorboat
03-20-2018, 06:30 PM
fullbacks are the straw that stirs the drank. . .

Which drink?

turftoad
03-20-2018, 07:09 PM
If we wanted a bulldozer full back we could bring back Hillman for pretty much nothing! :shocked:

Broncoknight30
03-20-2018, 07:49 PM
I personally think the last thing they should do in this draft is take a QB at 5. I really think CK developed a confidence that he had never had. I think it has been affirmed by the fact that his childhood team showed the confidence in him. Many people may not know how valuable that is, and how fragile that is. If they draft a QB with the 5th pick, I firmly believe that would crush that confidence.

We have seen this as fans before. The biggest mistake in my estimation of the Shanahan era and what cost him his job, was when he drafted poopy pants cutler in 2006. That was after Plummer had his best season as a pro, and led this team deep into the playoffs. He was at an all time high with his game, made the pro bowl, and he was basically defeated when the Broncos made the dumb decision to trade up to draft poopy pants instead of taking what they should have, and that was N'gata.

That was a horrific decision, and I do think that really destroyed Plummer. That, could very well be something very similar here. I believe if they show Keenum that he is the man by not drafting one of these PROJECTS in the first round, then he will come into TC with a swagger that I believe is needed.

It is true CK has only had ONE solid season. Well, that season was the last one, and right now that confidence is something the Broncos should not mess with. I am hoping they draft either Nelson, or Ward.

Poet
03-20-2018, 07:50 PM
I personally think the last thing they should do in this draft is take a QB at 5.

Someone send this to Elway so we trade up and take a QB, please!

Simple Jaded
03-20-2018, 11:39 PM
Don’t draft a certain player because it might hurt another players feelings? That’s where we’re at?

Simple Jaded
03-20-2018, 11:40 PM
fullbacks are the straw that stirs the drank. . .

Confirmed.

It’s science.

MOtorboat
03-20-2018, 11:50 PM
Straws in drinks are ghey.

Simple Jaded
03-20-2018, 11:50 PM
Cecil Lammey said trade a 1st round pick for Tyrod Taylor, that Hillman was drafted to be a bell cow RB ala Brian Westbrook, flip/flopped on Tebow about a zillion times, said Ty Sampro would be All-Pro (5 minutes after saying he hated the pick) and that Christian McCaffrey was a “One of a kind RB” in a draft in which he wasn’t even the best RB of his kind.

Of course this rumor is true, duh.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-21-2018, 12:05 AM
Cecil Lammey said trade a 1st round pick for Tyrod Taylor, that Hillman was drafted to be a bell cow RB ala Brian Westbrook, flip/flopped on Tebow about a zillion times, said Ty Sampro would be All-Pro (5 minutes after saying he hated the pick) and that Christian McCaffrey was a “One of a kind RB” in a draft in which he wasn’t even the best RB of his kind.

Of course this rumor is true, duh.

C’mon jaded, don’t you know that 10 minutes of watching YouTube highlights makes you a draft expert on that person and re-tweeting what guys like Mayock, Kiper, and Mcshay say makes you a draft expert!

This is why I hate this time of year. All the self proclaimed draftniks come out of the damned woodwork and make outrageous predictions based on nothing, yet they all act like they’re the ******* King Dingaling of the draft.

Buff
03-21-2018, 12:14 AM
Straws in drinks are ghey.

s'cuse me?

Poet
03-21-2018, 12:16 AM
C’mon jaded, don’t you know that 10 minutes of watching YouTube highlights makes you a draft expert on that person and re-tweeting what guys like Mayock, Kiper, and Mcshay say makes you a draft expert!

This is why I hate this time of year. All the self proclaimed draftniks come out of the damned woodwork and make outrageous predictions based on nothing, yet they all act like they’re the ******* King Dingaling of the draft.

The Draftniks are pretty dope. I like them, albeit most of them misuse the phrase BPA horribly.

OrangeHoof
03-21-2018, 02:47 AM
I think Keenum has a mental toughness that Plummer never had. Nothing was handed to him. He was undrafted. He took his lumps as a backup on some truly crappy teams. He's either going to be like Matt Cassel and cash in on his one season in the sun or he's going to be like Tony Romo that flourishes when he finally gets his chance to shine.

I don't think Plummer even liked playing football his last few years. Keenum breathes it.

MOtorboat
03-21-2018, 03:18 AM
I think Keenum has a mental toughness that Plummer never had. Nothing was handed to him. He was undrafted. He took his lumps as a backup on some truly crappy teams. He's either going to be like Matt Cassel and cash in on his one season in the sun or he's going to be like Tony Romo that flourishes when he finally gets his chance to shine.

I don't think Plummer even liked playing football his last few years. Keenum breathes it.

I like how we make crazy ass assumptions about someone's drive to play football...

Broncoknight30
03-21-2018, 05:12 AM
I think Keenum has a mental toughness that Plummer never had. Nothing was handed to him. He was undrafted. He took his lumps as a backup on some truly crappy teams. He's either going to be like Matt Cassel and cash in on his one season in the sun or he's going to be like Tony Romo that flourishes when he finally gets his chance to shine.

I don't think Plummer even liked playing football his last few years. Keenum breathes it.

I think Plummer really made strides in that 2005 season. He only threw 7 ints that season. He was very effective for the stretch run offense that the Broncos ran. Plummer was a pretty tough minded QB imo. Confidence is a very fragile thing, especially with a position like QB. The bottom line with that situation is Shanahan made a mistake with Cutler. Poopy pants really had everything though and I can certainly see what Shanahan was seering. He had the size, the ARM, intelligence coming out Vanderbilt, and had the mobile skills that is really needed with the west coast offense. He really had everything you want, except for the things that cannot be measured and that is why drafts are such risks.

For me, there is no QB that will be available at FIVE that will be nothing more than a PROJECT. At best. Josh Allen? Does anyone else see a poor man version of Jake Locker with Allen? Who was the last QB that could not complete 60% at the college level that made it in the NFL? Not a factor? Of course it is a factor.

Besides, the Broncos already have young QB that could very well has as much or more potential as any PROJECT they would draft at FIVE. That is too valuable of a pick to waste it on a PROJECT at QB. There are some real fine players that can really benefit the Broncos THIS YEAR.

Broncoknight30
03-21-2018, 05:17 AM
I like how we make crazy ass assumptions about someone's drive to play football...

You have never made assumptions? Pretty sure that is all we do. Besides, when he says, "I think" he is expressing an opinion.

I still think it is hilarious how there are Broncos fans that think the Broncos should have paid more than what the Vikings paid for Cousins who has proven less than Keenum. That, is funny.

Poet
03-21-2018, 07:46 PM
You have never made assumptions? Pretty sure that is all we do. Besides, when he says, "I think" he is expressing an opinion.

I still think it is hilarious how there are Broncos fans that think the Broncos should have paid more than what the Vikings paid for Cousins who has proven less than Keenum. That, is funny.

Cousins has proven less than Keenum? Keenum, with one relevant year, vs. Cousins' three relevant years?

Really?

Ziggy
03-21-2018, 08:10 PM
I'm wondering if Elway restructured Von to cover the cost of getting rid of Paxton, among other things. Think about it. Trade Paxton and a pick to New York, draft his QOTF, and let him develop behind Keenum for a year or two. It gives Paxton a change of scenery, and the Giants can develop him behind Eli while still adding a top 5 pick to their team.

Yeah, yeah, I know. We've tried that before. I don't think that the plan was bad though. I think the QB they chose was bad. I'll be interested to see if there are any rumors of Denver talking to the Giants about trading up.

Buff
03-21-2018, 08:23 PM
I'm wondering if Elway restructured Von to cover the cost of getting rid of Paxton, among other things. Think about it. Trade Paxton and a pick to New York, draft his QOTF, and let him develop behind Keenum for a year or two. It gives Paxton a change of scenery, and the Giants can develop him behind Eli while still adding a top 5 pick to their team.

Yeah, yeah, I know. We've tried that before. I don't think that the plan was bad though. I think the QB they chose was bad. I'll be interested to see if there are any rumors of Denver talking to the Giants about trading up.

I have also thought Elway might try to trade Lynch - but it seems a little bit less likely given how the QB market has shaped up. Also, pretty sure Dave Gettleman isn't going to make his 1st move as Giants GM tying his future to Paxton Lynch as their QBOTF.

As for the cap space, my read on the situation is that there were like 15 different scenarios entering free agency and he just wanted to have max flexibility in the event he could opportunistically sign someone.

Simple Jaded
03-21-2018, 08:41 PM
Now we’re denigrating Jake Plummer to prop up the new guy?

Simple Jaded
03-21-2018, 08:42 PM
You have never made assumptions? Pretty sure that is all we do. Besides, when he says, "I think" he is expressing an opinion.

I still think it is hilarious how there are Broncos fans that think the Broncos should have paid more than what the Vikings paid for Cousins who has proven less than Keenum. That, is funny.


This is getting ridiculous.

Simple Jaded
03-21-2018, 08:52 PM
I think Keenum has a mental toughness that Plummer never had. Nothing was handed to him. He was undrafted. He took his lumps as a backup on some truly crappy teams. He's either going to be like Matt Cassel and cash in on his one season in the sun or he's going to be like Tony Romo that flourishes when he finally gets his chance to shine.

I don't think Plummer even liked playing football his last few years. Keenum breathes it.

Remember when you called me ignorant? That was funny.

Simple Jaded
03-21-2018, 08:54 PM
C’mon jaded, don’t you know that 10 minutes of watching YouTube highlights makes you a draft expert on that person and re-tweeting what guys like Mayock, Kiper, and Mcshay say makes you a draft expert!

This is why I hate this time of year. All the self proclaimed draftniks come out of the damned woodwork and make outrageous predictions based on nothing, yet they all act like they’re the ******* King Dingaling of the draft.

Lammey’s a scout now, just ask him.

Also, he doesn’t retweet these guys, he flat out plagiarizes their scouting reports word for word on the air. Usually Lance Zierlein.

Broncoknight30
03-21-2018, 11:13 PM
Remember when you called me ignorant? That was funny.

If he did, then he was very accurate. Tell us again how the Broncos should have paid more than the Vikings for an overrated QB. Love to eye roll your ridiculous posts.

Broncoknight30
03-21-2018, 11:17 PM
Cousins has proven less than Keenum? Keenum, with one relevant year, vs. Cousins' three relevant years?

Really?

I still think it is hilarious how there are Broncos fans that think the Broncos should have paid more than what the Vikings paid for Cousins. Ignorant as hell.

OrangeHoof
03-22-2018, 12:01 AM
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that 12 years after the fact there would still be people jerking themselves off about Jake Plummer. I guess they'd forgotten all those WTF turnovers that prompted Shanahan to trade up for Cutler in the first place.

MOtorboat
03-22-2018, 12:03 AM
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that 12 years after the fact there would still be people jerking themselves off about Jake Plummer. I guess they'd forgotten all those WTF turnovers that prompted Shanahan to trade up for Cutler in the first place.

...and Shanahan never saw the playoffs again...with the Broncos, anyway...

Elevation inc
03-22-2018, 02:38 AM
If we stay at 5, we should go with Chubb. Otherwise if we can we should trade back a few spots get a extra pick out of the deal and then take Nelson at G or Ward at CB.

CoachChaz
03-22-2018, 09:42 AM
If we stay at 5, we should go with Chubb. Otherwise if we can we should trade back a few spots get a extra pick out of the deal and then take Nelson at G or Ward at CB.

Problem is...Colts, Bucs, Bears, 9ers and Raiders dont need QB's. So if you trade back any further than that, you probably aren't getting Nelson or Ward.

Elevation inc
03-22-2018, 10:10 AM
Problem is...Colts, Bucs, Bears, 9ers and Raiders dont need QB's. So if you trade back any further than that, you probably aren't getting Nelson or Ward. That's probably true as well. It could be that we just take ward, nelson or chubb at 5, which I would be okay with, probably ward being the least favorite of those 3.

OrangeHoof
03-22-2018, 10:11 AM
The Giants just traded JPP to the Buccaneers, increasing the speculation that Chubb will be their target in the first round which also means one of the Top 4 QBs will be there at #5 to tempt Elway. (Buccaneers gave the trade two, err one, thumbs up).

OrangeHoof
03-22-2018, 10:15 AM
...and Shanahan never saw the playoffs again...with the Broncos, anyway...

But the Broncos *did* see the playoffs again in 2011, 2013-15, including two Super Bowl appearances. Let's not pretend Plummer would have led them to a Super Bowl.

TXBRONC
03-22-2018, 10:22 AM
Chubb??
Miller isn't a spring chicken anymore and Ray haven't really proven to be an impact player as of yet.
Nelson would be a starter for 10'years,
IMO, after signing Kennum, there is no way we take a QB.

I don't know Turf, with kind of contract that Keenum was given I don't think taking a quarterback is off the table at five or even later on.

turftoad
03-22-2018, 11:20 AM
I don't know Turf, with kind of contract that Keenum was given I don't think taking a quarterback is off the table at five or even later on.

Maybe later but I don't think they take one at 5. JMO

TXBRONC
03-22-2018, 11:46 AM
Maybe later but I don't think they take one at 5. JMO

It depends on just how strongly Elway feels about these quarterbacks. If there is only one or two them neither of them make to the fifth selection then I agree Elway won't be selecting a quarterback at 5.

Cugel
03-22-2018, 12:05 PM
We have seen this as fans before. The biggest mistake in my estimation of the Shanahan era and what cost him his job, was when he drafted poopy pants cutler in 2006. That was after Plummer had his best season as a pro, and led this team deep into the playoffs. He was at an all time high with his game, made the pro bowl, and he was basically defeated when the Broncos made the dumb decision to trade up to draft poopy pants instead of taking what they should have, and that was N'gata.

That was a horrific decision, and I do think that really destroyed Plummer. That, could very well be something very similar here. I believe if they show Keenum that he is the man by not drafting one of these PROJECTS in the first round, then he will come into TC with a swagger that I believe is needed.

It is true CK has only had ONE solid season. Well, that season was the last one, and right now that confidence is something the Broncos should not mess with. I am hoping they draft either Nelson, or Ward.

This is difficult for me because at the time I was convinced that the Broncos had reached a ceiling with Plummer and Cutler was an elite QB prospect. It was a miracle he was available at #11. If he were in this year's draft and nobody know what a worthless personality he had, he'd be a top 5 pick, probably the #1 overall pick. I don't think you could fault Shanahan for that one.

Because he had every possible tool. He just didn't care. He could have been a HOF if he had even 1/2 the dedication of Peyton Manning. But, that great arm was his curse, because he could always rely on that.

Shanahan did a LOT worse than drafting Cutler. For instance, moving up in the draft to draft Jarvis Moss, or taking WR Marcus Nash in the first round and then having to cut him. All the Browncos failures. Giving Gerrard Warren a contract only to have him go right back to sleep. Signing locker room cancer Dale Carter. There were LOTs of failures in personnel decisions.

In retrospect, the Broncos should certainly have passed on taking a QB in 2006, and stayed with Plummer.

But, if they had nothing much would have happened. That 2005 team was a last hurrah for a lot of key players who soon retired, or were traded/released including Al Wilson, Courtney Brown (whose knee gave out), Gerard Warren (who put on a salary drive in 2005 and then took his money and retired without telling anybody), Rod Smith (who had 1100 yards in 2005 but retired after a down 2006 season). Etc.

They were beaten by a much better Steelers team that had a young Ben Roethlisberger on his way up. Last hurrah for a bunch of ageing veterans.

Cugel
03-22-2018, 12:13 PM
I personally think the last thing they should do in this draft is take a QB at 5. I really think CK developed a confidence that he had never had. I think it has been affirmed by the fact that his childhood team showed the confidence in him. Many people may not know how valuable that is, and how fragile that is. If they draft a QB with the 5th pick, I firmly believe that would crush that confidence.

I agree but I don't think it's a confidence thing. The Broncos are about 8-10 starters away from winning a SB. It's not just QB it's every single position on this team except outside LB where the Broncos appear set with Von & Shane Ray. Even there, Chubb could be an upgrade on Shane Ray, so they could justify taking him at 5.

The Broncos desperately need impact players at the almost every position. They need to start with #5.

Today Troy Renck was predicting that the Giants would take Josh Rosen at #2 (opposite of what other scouts are saying). (Personally I thought Barkley, but. . . )

If that happens, then QBs go 1,2, 3 and possibly even 4. At worst the Broncos have a chance to draft the 2nd best non-QB in the entire draft. Nelson, Fitzpatrick, Chubb, Barkley. Three of those four can't-miss prospects will be on the boards at 5 for sure. Possibly all four.

Barkley would be my choice since he could be the next Edgerrin James. James in 2004 had 1500 yards plus 60 pass receptions. Imagine that kind of RB on the Broncos. Barkley would be an immediate impact that would give the Broncos a dual threat weapon they haven't had ever. Not Clinton Portis, not even TD was also a great pass receiver.

I don't insist I'm right, it could be Nelson. Whoever they take, I want to see an immediate impact day 1. And an immediate impact from their 2nd round pick too! Let's not forget that.

What I do not want is to sit here the next two years while Josh Allen or Josh Rosen sits on the bench trying to figure out how to play in this league, and unable to beat out Case Keenum for the starting job, or worse, having it just given to him by Elway fiat, and then falling flat.

Because there's no certainty any of these QBs are going to be great. The Broncos already have a GOOD but not great QB. IF Elway is sure enough about Mayfield or Allen to risk his entire career on drafting him - fine! His knowledge is 100 times mine. Go for it!

But, if not, then take Nelson or Barkley at #5 and get an All-Pro player.

Cugel
03-22-2018, 12:20 PM
It depends on just how strongly Elway feels about these quarterbacks. If there is only one or two them neither of them make to the fifth selection then I agree Elway won't be selecting a quarterback at 5.

That's what I think will happen - unless Elway really loves Baker Mayfield. I think he'll be on the boards now. (Latest word is the Jets may want Allen). Of course, Cleveland will try and trade back out of #4 to some QB hungry team that wants Mayfield. So, all 4 QBs could be off the board - if the latest stories that the Giants will take Rosen (despite supposed character concerns) are true.

Again, I don't have an opinion on which of these Qbs they should take. Just better be sure you're right Elway!

Hawgdriver
03-22-2018, 12:38 PM
This is difficult for me because at the time I was convinced that the Broncos had reached a ceiling with Plummer and Cutler was an elite QB prospect. It was a miracle he was available at #11. If he were in this year's draft and nobody know what a worthless personality he had, he'd be a top 5 pick, probably the #1 overall pick. I don't think you could fault Shanahan for that one.

Because he had every possible tool. He just didn't care. He could have been a HOF if he had even 1/2 the dedication of Peyton Manning. But, that great arm was his curse, because he could always rely on that.

Shanahan did a LOT worse than drafting Cutler. For instance, moving up in the draft to draft Jarvis Moss, or taking WR Marcus Nash in the first round and then having to cut him. All the Browncos failures. Giving Gerrard Warren a contract only to have him go right back to sleep. Signing locker room cancer Dale Carter. There were LOTs of failures in personnel decisions.

In retrospect, the Broncos should certainly have passed on taking a QB in 2006, and stayed with Plummer.

But, if they had nothing much would have happened. That 2005 team was a last hurrah for a lot of key players who soon retired, or were traded/released including Al Wilson, Courtney Brown (whose knee gave out), Gerard Warren (who put on a salary drive in 2005 and then took his money and retired without telling anybody), Rod Smith (who had 1100 yards in 2005 but retired after a down 2006 season). Etc.

They were beaten by a much better Steelers team that had a young Ben Roethlisberger on his way up. Last hurrah for a bunch of ageing veterans.

13-3 and AFC championship game is a 'ceiling' I'm sure Shanahan would take back if he could.

TXBRONC
03-22-2018, 12:57 PM
That's what I think will happen - unless Elway really loves Baker Mayfield. I think he'll be on the boards now. (Latest word is the Jets may want Allen). Of course, Cleveland will try and trade back out of #4 to some QB hungry team that wants Mayfield. So, all 4 QBs could be off the board - if the latest stories that the Giants will take Rosen (despite supposed character concerns) are true.

Again, I don't have an opinion on which of these Qbs they should take. Just better be sure you're right Elway!

I haven't seen anything that indicates Cleveland is working to trade that fourth overall all pick. I'm sure they have had interest and maybe have even offers but I haven't even heard any rumors of any kind of offers. It doesn't mean they won't but at the same time to be able potentially get two impact players might give them pause. It's the NFL so anything is possible but, I don't think it's likely that we'll see quarterbacks go 1,2,3, 4.

If Elway doesn't take quarterback at five I'm quite already with that.

arapaho2
03-22-2018, 01:09 PM
I'm wondering if Elway restructured Von to cover the cost of getting rid of Paxton, among other things. Think about it. Trade Paxton and a pick to New York, draft his QOTF, and let him develop behind Keenum for a year or two. It gives Paxton a change of scenery, and the Giants can develop him behind Eli while still adding a top 5 pick to their team.

Yeah, yeah, I know. We've tried that before. I don't think that the plan was bad though. I think the QB they chose was bad. I'll be interested to see if there are any rumors of Denver talking to the Giants about trading up.

doubt it

https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/3/19/17138650/john-elway-fifth-pick-nfl-draft-broncos
After signing Case Keenum, the Denver Broncos will have some flexibility with the fifth overall pick of the 2018 NFL Draft. John Elway, when asked about drafting a quarterback fifth overall, he chose instead to talk a lot about Paxton Lynch.
“Paxton is still young,” Elway said on whether a quarterback will be considered with the fifth overall pick. “We still have high hopes for Paxton. He’s a young guy that is talented. He’s been here for two years and had a tough year last year with the injuries and everything, but we still have high hopes for Paxton to come in here and compete and continue to grow as a quarterback. That is the expectation for Paxton.



my guess is Barkley, nelson or chubb in that order on elways board so whichever falls to 5 is the one Elway gets

TXBRONC
03-22-2018, 01:14 PM
doubt it

https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/3/19/17138650/john-elway-fifth-pick-nfl-draft-broncos
After signing Case Keenum, the Denver Broncos will have some flexibility with the fifth overall pick of the 2018 NFL Draft. John Elway, when asked about drafting a quarterback fifth overall, he chose instead to talk a lot about Paxton Lynch.
“Paxton is still young,” Elway said on whether a quarterback will be considered with the fifth overall pick. “We still have high hopes for Paxton. He’s a young guy that is talented. He’s been here for two years and had a tough year last year with the injuries and everything, but we still have high hopes for Paxton to come in here and compete and continue to grow as a quarterback. That is the expectation for Paxton.



my guess is Barkley, nelson or chubb in that order on elways board so whichever falls to 5 is the one Elway gets

I'm not sure means all that much.

MOtorboat
03-22-2018, 01:38 PM
They're taking Mayfield.

MOtorboat
03-22-2018, 01:40 PM
But the Broncos *did* see the playoffs again in 2011, 2013-15, including two Super Bowl appearances. Let's not pretend Plummer would have led them to a Super Bowl.

Your point seems very disjointed, as the 2011 playoff berth - and certainly 2012-15 - seems quite irrelevant to your original point about the team five years earlier.

dogfish
03-22-2018, 01:42 PM
They're taking Mayfield.

there is no possible way they'd take him. . .

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
03-22-2018, 01:43 PM
doubt it

https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/3/19/17138650/john-elway-fifth-pick-nfl-draft-broncos
After signing Case Keenum, the Denver Broncos will have some flexibility with the fifth overall pick of the 2018 NFL Draft. John Elway, when asked about drafting a quarterback fifth overall, he chose instead to talk a lot about Paxton Lynch.
“Paxton is still young,” Elway said on whether a quarterback will be considered with the fifth overall pick. “We still have high hopes for Paxton. He’s a young guy that is talented. He’s been here for two years and had a tough year last year with the injuries and everything, but we still have high hopes for Paxton to come in here and compete and continue to grow as a quarterback. That is the expectation for Paxton.



my guess is Barkley, nelson or chubb in that order on elways board so whichever falls to 5 is the one Elway gets

This could also be translated, “we can’t afford the cap hit to cut Paxton so we’re gonna say this.”

I think there’s a good chance Denver drafts a quarterback in the top 5.

MOtorboat
03-22-2018, 01:44 PM
there is no possible way they'd take him. . .

Ok.

BroncoWave
03-22-2018, 01:47 PM
The Giants just traded JPP to the Buccaneers, increasing the speculation that Chubb will be their target in the first round which also means one of the Top 4 QBs will be there at #5 to tempt Elway. (Buccaneers gave the trade two, err one, thumbs up).

Unless the browns were gonna take 2 QBs, we were already in line for one of the top 4 QBs. This would put us in line for one of the top 3.

OrangeHoof
03-22-2018, 04:42 PM
Has Elway ever lied about his intentions leading up to the draft?

WARHORSE
03-22-2018, 05:06 PM
The Giants just traded JPP to the Buccaneers, increasing the speculation that Chubb will be their target in the first round which also means one of the Top 4 QBs will be there at #5 to tempt Elway. (Buccaneers gave the trade two, err one, thumbs up).

Guess what else it means?

It means if they like a trade partner its Denver. To trade out far down the board means no shot at Chubb. (Buffalo, Arizona)

IF Browns go QB at 1 and its not the one Denver covets(if they really value one above the rest), then Denver and the Giants become mutually trade friendly to one another.

Giants would want to go no further than 5 because the Browns are likely to take Saquon, leaving them Chubb. (caveat coming)
Giants would get picks, but Denver wouldnt cash in the house because they realize they are the target for the Giants. If they want Chubb and they know they can secure picks and still get him at 5, then anything they receive would be extra arrows in the draft to fire vs none.

HOWEVER......If the COLTS view Chubb as a must have, then if Denver trades up with the Giants, and Cleveland is taking Saquon, then Cleveland might trade back two spots and STILL get Saquon.......but not likely because if Colts take Chubb at 4, then who would the Giants pick at 5? Its gotta be Saquon....who the Browns probably want.

So this makes things VERY interesting.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2018, 09:24 AM
I'd be shocked if the Broncos traded up in this draft. I think they like where they are.

Cugel
03-23-2018, 09:39 AM
13-3 and AFC championship game is a 'ceiling' I'm sure Shanahan would take back if he could.

The players who went to that game retired or were injured or stop performing. It's just like after the 2015 SB team lost Manning, Ware, Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan, TJ Ward.

Cugel
03-23-2018, 09:55 AM
Guess what else it means?

It means if they like a trade partner its Denver. To trade out far down the board means no shot at Chubb. (Buffalo, Arizona)

The Colts reportedly want Chubb badly, but figure they can take him at #6. If the Giants want to take him at #5, that would be doable.

But, Denver would have to give up the moon and stars to get up to #2. It's almost inconceivable Elway does that given all the other holes on this team. That would almost guarantee the Broncos went 6-10 this season and still sucked next year too.

Elway has talked incessantly about having "ten picks in this year's draft". He's done almost nothing in FA to fill all the holes at RT, RG, WR, TE, ILB, DT, CB and finding quality backups behind all those new starters too. The only strategy left for him is to re-stock through the draft.

But, if they trade up to #2 look at the chart!

#2 pick = 2600 points
#5 pick = 1700 points
To fill that 900 point deficit, the Broncos would need to trade their 2nd round pick (#40) this year - 500 points, PLUS probably a first round pick next year. The Jets gave up 3 2nd rounders just to move up 3 spots, and that was only to #3 which is worth 300 points less than #2.

Plus, teams want a premium to give up that top 2 spot, so they would want MORE than 2 #1s and a #2. Whatever the actual price, it would cripple their ability to strengthen themselves in the draft for years.

If you are sure you're getting the next Carson Wentz, fine. But, if that guy doesn't turn out to be a MVP QB and you bet the farm on him. . . .

Cugel
03-23-2018, 10:00 AM
Giants would get picks, but Denver wouldnt cash in the house because they realize they are the target for the Giants. If they want Chubb and they know they can secure picks and still get him at 5, then anything they receive would be extra arrows in the draft to fire vs none.

This is a clever argument, but it's wrong because the Giants would just trade with some other team who wanted a QB (Buffalo). Chubb isn't the only player they covet after sucking all the way to 3-13.

They would demand at about as much as the Eagles gave up to move up to #2 for Carson Wentz - two #1s and a #2 at least. If they don't get their price, they can always stay at #2 and take Barkley. Or do what the Chargers did in 2004 - draft Eli Manning and then trade him.

Nomad
03-23-2018, 02:07 PM
I'd be shocked if the Broncos traded up in this draft. I think they like where they are.

That would be an awful idea. None of these QBs are worth moving up for. Hope Elway gets an impact player rather than one of these reaches at QB.

dogfish
03-23-2018, 02:17 PM
That would be an awful idea. None of these QBs are worth moving up for. Hope Elway gets an impact player rather than one of these reaches at QB.

lol! king already has rosen in the hall of fame, and you've got every one of them busting. . . :laugh:

Nomad
03-23-2018, 02:19 PM
lol! king already has rosen in the hall of fame, and you've got every one of them busting. . . :laugh:

This smells just like the Jay Cutler scenario.

dogfish
03-23-2018, 02:22 PM
This smells just like the Jay Cutler scenario.

i know fans who will go to their grave still pissed about ngata. . . :D

Nomad
03-23-2018, 02:28 PM
i know fans who will go to their grave still pissed about ngata. . . :D

Yep. Loved Shanahan, but he lost me at that moment. Hope Elway doesn't lose me too.

Poet
03-23-2018, 02:31 PM
lol! king already has rosen in the hall of fame, and you've got every one of them busting. . . :laugh:

I've got him as a talented prospect worthy of taking.

Poet
03-23-2018, 02:32 PM
This smells just like the Jay Cutler scenario.

One guy didn't care about winning, was lazy, and coasted off of his talent. The other guy is the exact opposite of that.

OrangeHoof
03-23-2018, 04:19 PM
The ONLY reason to trade up from 5 is to take the QB you hope to marry for a decade. I don't have that vibe for any of the 4 top QBs but I'm not Elway. Signing Keenum allows them room to take another top player and work further with Lynch and Kelly before sending them off.

I've concluded that, as much as we need a RT, there aren't any that merit a #5 pick. There are several, though, that would be adequate-to-special who could fall to our second-round pick. So, I've reassessed my draft board to 1) stay at #5 and take Nelson or Barkley or 2) trade down into the 9-13 range and take the top OT on the board plus add help elsewhere with the additional high draft choice we would add in the trade.

To get one of the OTs in the draft plus Nelson/Hernandez would be optimal if it can be done.

Broncoknight30
03-23-2018, 05:06 PM
The ONLY reason to trade up from 5 is to take the QB you hope to marry for a decade. I don't have that vibe for any of the 4 top QBs but I'm not Elway. Signing Keenum allows them room to take another top player and work further with Lynch and Kelly before sending them off.

I've concluded that, as much as we need a RT, there aren't any that merit a #5 pick. There are several, though, that would be adequate-to-special who could fall to our second-round pick. So, I've reassessed my draft board to 1) stay at #5 and take Nelson or Barkley or 2) trade down into the 9-13 range and take the top OT on the board plus add help elsewhere with the additional high draft choice we would add in the trade.

To get one of the OTs in the draft plus Nelson/Hernandez would be optimal if it can be done.

Right tackles are not really picked in the first round. Not typically. There are plenty of potential solid RTs in the draft between the second and the fifth rounds.

Nelson is probably the pick, unless Chubb is there. Which is looking more and more likely that will be a Giant.

WARHORSE
03-23-2018, 09:30 PM
The ONLY reason to trade up from 5 is to take the QB you hope to marry for a decade. I don't have that vibe for any of the 4 top QBs but I'm not Elway. Signing Keenum allows them room to take another top player and work further with Lynch and Kelly before sending them off.

I've concluded that, as much as we need a RT, there aren't any that merit a #5 pick. There are several, though, that would be adequate-to-special who could fall to our second-round pick. So, I've reassessed my draft board to 1) stay at #5 and take Nelson or Barkley or 2) trade down into the 9-13 range and take the top OT on the board plus add help elsewhere with the additional high draft choice we would add in the trade.

To get one of the OTs in the draft plus Nelson/Hernandez would be optimal if it can be done.

Yep.

Simple Jaded
03-23-2018, 10:45 PM
Unless the browns were gonna take 2 QBs, we were already in line for one of the top 4 QBs. This would put us in line for one of the top 3.

Buffalo is a treat to jump in front of Denver, they got the ammo.

Simple Jaded
03-23-2018, 10:50 PM
there is no possible way they'd take him. . .

Legwold said today with Moser that the only QB they’d even consider at 5 is Mayfield, because none of the other (far more talented) QB’s fit what they wanna do with Keenum.

Wrap your head around that mind ****, at your own risk.

MOtorboat
03-24-2018, 12:10 AM
Legwold said today with Moser that the only QB they’d even consider at 5 is Mayfield, because none of the other (far more talented) QB’s fit what they wanna do with Keenum.

Wrap your head around that mind ****, at your own risk.

**** me.