Broncos will sign Case Keenum, per Schefter

[Buff]

Welp, there you have it.


ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- For the second time in the last seven years the Denver Broncos have roared into free agency to fix a quarterback problem.

In 2012 it was Peyton Manning and this year it's Case Keenum.

Sources tell ESPN's Adam Schefter the Broncos will reel in the 30-year-old Keenum to be their quarterback of the present and the future when free agency officially opens Wednesday.

Keenum is expected to become the first of the high-profile quarterbacks in the open market to agree to a deal.

The Broncos also considered Kirk Cousins and had some discussions about Teddy Bridgewater, who was a teammate of Keenum's this past season with the Minnesota Vikings.

Keenum helped power the Vikings to the NFC Championship Game last season as Minnesota went 11-3 in his regular-season starts in place of an injured Sam Bradford.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22740371/former-minnesota-vikings-quarterback-case-keenum-intends-sign-denver-broncos

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/973426107180515328

[MOtorboat]

Well then. I guess that shouldn't be a surprise, considering who has been asked to consult.

[Rick]

I hope to hell that he is the 2017 Keenum.

[Buff]

Immediate reaction -

He's Kubiak's guy. Obviously they think he can be an effective enough starter to pay him ~$20 million/year. At that price - you're expecting him to lead you to the playoffs not be a bridge starter. We'll have to see the terms of the deal, but I'm pretty sure this means we don't take a QB in the 1st round.

[Timmy!]

https://media.giphy.com/media/ekqDv81apSN9K/giphy.gif

[Buff]

https://twitter.com/MikeKlis/status/973429426363879425

[MOtorboat]

They’re drafting Baker Mayfield. Book it.

[Rick]

I guess at this point PL or Kelly will be the backup and possibly the future.

I'd be inclined to trade with Buffalo at this point. Need to get more talent depth.

[Rick]

https://twitter.com/MikeKlis/status/973429426363879425

If truly short term then MO probably right.

[G_Money]

Denver trying to pull a Rich Gannon out of the hat with Case Keenum. It lets them go away from 1st rd QBs (gotta disagree with you Mo, don't see Mayfield now) and sets them up to be trade partners with the Bills in the right scenario for extra first round picks.

We'll see what the guarantees and annual rate is for Keenum but at 2/3 the price of Cousins (at most, I would think) we'll hopefully have funds left over for other needs too. Now fix the OL - properly this time. I know Case likes to make shit up, but we shouldn't make it mandatory on every play.

[Buff]

Duh.

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/973432443800727552

[MOtorboat]

Denver trying to pull a Rich Gannon out of the hat with Case Keenum. It lets them go away from 1st rd QBs (gotta disagree with you Mo, don't see Mayfield now) and sets them up to be trade partners with the Bills in the right scenario for extra first round picks.

We'll see what the guarantees and annual rate is for Keenum but at 2/3 the price of Cousins (at most, I would think) we'll hopefully have funds left over for other needs too. Now fix the OL - properly this time. I know Case likes to make shit up, but we shouldn't make it mandatory on every play.

If the deal is short term, they are putting a stop gap in place, even if it's $18-22 million. If that's not the case, and it's a four-five year deal at $20 per, ~$40-45 million guaranteed then they will be doing the Rich Gannon/Trent Green thing.

If it's the former, even with the money, they're going QB in the draft, IMO. And its going to be Baker Mayfield just to ******* torture me. If it's the latter, they're going after a 3rd-4th rounder type. They're going quarterback in this draft somewhere, regardless.

[GEM]

Stick a ******* corkscrew in my ******* eye. Sounds much more enjoyable than watching this putz for a year.

[G_Money]

If the deal is short term, they are putting a stop gap in place, even if it's $18-22 million. If that's not the case, and it's a four-five year deal at $20 per, ~$40-45 million guaranteed then they will be doing the Rich Gannon/Trent Green thing.

If it's the former, even with the money, they're going QB in the draft, IMO. And its going to be Baker Mayfield just to ******* torture me. If it's the latter, they're going after a 3rd-4th rounder type. They're going quarterback in this draft somewhere, regardless.

Yeah, I expect a QB too (and why not, they've got plenty of picks and John needs all the extra draws at the deck he can get for that position apparently). Just not at #5. I expect Denver would like to trade out of the pick now, and with 4 QBs along with Barkley, Fitzpatrick and Bradley Chubb, there's got to be some action available. Keenum gives you some certainty at the position which Denver needs - can't keep giving the job to rookies.

It's gonna be a fun draft. We'll see how early John can drive me to drink.

[underrated29]

We won’t see much of Keenum.

It’s a qb at 5 or we make the buff trade and go for a Lamar and see what Kelly has this year. Maybe a like or Rudolph. We won’t see Keenum

[wayninja]

Per sources, wayninja expected to be weeping inconsolably when free agency opens wednesday.

[wayninja]

https://media.giphy.com/media/KeUroRDhZ3eow/giphy.gif

[Timmy!]

We won’t see Keenum


http://m.quickmeme.com/img/9e/9eb929ab8eda799a6b3d158bd32848c70ad4e57f1c73c0e0e7 7063aa61f2cfe8.jpg

[MOtorboat]

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/9e/9eb929ab8eda799a6b3d158bd32848c70ad4e57f1c73c0e0e7 7063aa61f2cfe8.jpg

Yes?

[MOtorboat]

We won’t see much of Keenum.

It’s a qb at 5 or we make the buff trade and go for a Lamar and see what Kelly has this year. Maybe a like or Rudolph. We won’t see Keenum

Wait, what? You think this is a backup signing?

I mean (just for you!), I think they're drafting quarterback, but that quarterback isn't starting.

[wayninja]

Don't we already have Case Keenum or the equivalent on the roster?

[ShaneFalco]

Welp, there you have it.



http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22740371/former-minnesota-vikings-quarterback-case-keenum-intends-sign-denver-broncos

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/973426107180515328

https://media.giphy.com/media/I4Jmrcjnr8Zfq/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[MOtorboat]

Don't we already have Case Keenum or the equivalent on the roster?

Pretty much. Keenum is just the most successful of the T.J. Yates, Trevor Siemian, Case Keenum, late-round underdog Gary Kubiak quarterback...

[MOtorboat]

https://media.giphy.com/media/I4Jmrcjnr8Zfq/giphy-downsized-large.gif

Shane's ire makes me rethink my disapproval of this move.

Shane loves shitty quarterbacks...

[ShaneFalco]

We traded talib to sign this guy?

Bahahahahahahahahahah

[MOtorboat]

We cut talib to sign this guy?

Bahahahahahahahahahah

*Trade.

[wayninja]

When Elway said he wasn't done swinging and missing, I think I may have totally misread his intentions.

[Timmy!]

Shane's ire makes me rethink my disapproval of this move.

Shane loves shitty quarterbacks...

Good point.

In all seriousness I'm not a fan of this move. Then again I watched a lot of vikes games last season and Keenum did play out of his friggin mind. If we get that guy this is great, but I'm extremely skeptical he can repeat that season again. Hope I'm wrong.

[wayninja]

Someone tell me that the vikings also have a shitty o-line/meatgrinder and that Keenum overcame.

Or just hold me.

[wayninja]

Boy how I long for the good ol' days when I could scoff at a Mark Sanchez signing.

[MOtorboat]

Someone tell me that the vikings also have a shitty o-line/meatgrinder and that Keenum overcame.

Or just hold me.

The more I think about it, the more I'm pretty sure the problem wasn't the offensive line. So there's that. :2thumbs:

[DenBronx]

Count me as not excited about this. Moves like this are why Kubiak sucked in Houston.

[Magnificent Seven]

Keenum could be a solid back up QB.

[ShaneFalco]

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/973439159875485696:coffee:

[ShaneFalco]

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/973440037483249664

[wayninja]

That's sure to be locker-room-winning news. Hey fellas, you wanted Cousins, right?

Well, shut the **** up and hit the showers.

[MOtorboat]

That's sure to be locker-room-winning news. Hey fellas, you wanted Cousins, right?

Well, shut the **** up and hit the showers.

You know, **** the "locker room" moves. They played like shit last year, they don't get to dictate roster moves based on late-night tweets and Instagram messages.

I don't particularly like the move, either, but I'm done with the "gotta make X move because 'locker room.'" They stuck with Siemian way too long for that crap, and it hurt the team in the long run.

[ShaneFalco]

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/973431929121861632

[ShaneFalco]

only game i am going to next year is preseason when Swag starts.

[dogfish]

welp. . .

here we go, i guess. . . can't say i'm very excited about it, although i don't think he's AS bad as some of y'all do. . . case and vance isn't exactly a dynamic duo that's gonna strike fear in the hearts of opponents. . . i just hope it is in fact a short-term deal. . . sit at #5 and take nelson unless buffalo blows you away with an offer-- and if they do, you hope to get hernandez and rudolph with those top two picks. . . or mcglinchey or a defensive playmaker, if you want, and think you can get a lamar jackson/luke falk/whoever at #40. . . and a TE or another offensive weapon is probably high on the wish list after that. . . there are needs on defense as well, but if you're gonna pay keenum big money, you may as well try to put him in a position to succeed, and that certainly means more skill position talent around him as well as the inevitable (and continual) O-line rebuild. . . assuming that we do take a QB, he'll also need those pieces around him in the coming years. . .

[dogfish]

You know, **** the "locker room" moves. They played like shit last year, they don't get to dictate roster moves based on late-night tweets and Instagram messages.

I don't particularly like the move, either, but I'm done with the "gotta make X move because 'locker room.'" They stuck with Siemian way too long for that crap, and it hurt the team in the long run.

yea, i don't really care about that. . .

[CoachChaz]

Keenum will outplay Cousins in 2018.

[DenBronx]

For what it's worth...

[Timmy!]

Keenum will outplay Cousins in 2018.

https://i.redd.it/2xml8cx3r5zz.gif

[DenBronx]

Odd on us now drafting a QB at 5?

Would rather us just go get G Nelson and see which one of the QBs fall, we could always trade back up.

[DenBronx]

Sort of feel like Elway panicked with Cousins. He should of waited it out.

[DenBronx]

Turnovers lose ballgames. At least he didn't turn it over last year.

HOPEFULLY we are getting him on a team friendly deal, Lammey thinks we did.

[WARHORSE]

Don't be so sure Keenum can't play. Look at Drew Brees career path and stats.

Keenum played second year with Texans in his first starts. Obvious growing pains. Gets traded mid third year to the Rams and Jeff Fisher. Fisher was an outdated car past its time.

Then he goes to Minn and plays a heckuva lot better. 67% completion percentage is studly. The guy is still young. He had enough to get his team to the NFC Championship game.

[Hawgdriver]

The good. Keenum showed he can do well with a good defense and low-volume passing game (54/46 pass/run) and an offensive coordinator and QB coach who use him to his strengths. The move signals to guys like Wolfe that the team wants more than 5 wins in 2018. It might help with other free agent acquisitions. Kubiak knows him well enough to vouch for the move. Takes the QB draft issue off the table.

The bad. Huge overspend on a guy with one top 15 year and 5 years of fail. Minny never considered him as a solution. Moved 20 million of cap to improve ~5-10 places in QB rankings (assuming a 2018 Keenum has a line equivalent to Minny's 2017 OL, and T-Sizzle wouldn't benefit from having Minny's OL). He's not Cousins. Hasn't shown ability to carry team. Limits other FA acquisitions that might improve roster once real QB arrives/is drafted. Case Keenum is your QB.

Gut reaction is I hate it. Same reaction when they released Wade. Same feeling when they hired VJ. Same feeling when they drafted Cutler and cut Ward. Not saying my gut feeling is some kind of Nostratimmy!, but it's just how I feel about this one.

[DenBronx]

3 yr 55 mil with incentives up to 72 mil is the rumor.

So about 18 plus incentives if he earns it.

[Hawgdriver]

The more I think about it, the more I'm pretty sure the problem wasn't the offensive line. So there's that. :2thumbs:

False dichotomy. Our OL clearly sucked the last two years especially at RT. Yes, Siemian is mediocre and can't navigate the pocket. It's not one or the other.

[MOtorboat]

False dichotomy. Our OL clearly sucked the last two years especially at RT. Yes, Siemian is mediocre and can't navigate the pocket. It's not one or the other.

Eh, maybe. Get someone to finally step up into the pocket instead of back into sacks where tackles have deliberately been taught to push speed rushers and the sacks would have been cut pretty dramatically. Was the RT position ideal, hell no, but some damn pocket presence would be nice for once. And “clearly” just isn’t true. The offensive line was Top 10 as a rushing line last season, per Football Outsider.

[Hawgdriver]

Yeah, it wasn't such an utter train wreck that it exculpates the poor QB play. But pass pro was lacking on known passing downs.

Back to my Keenum pity party. At least the contract is incentive-oriented.

Well, nothing to be gained by going emo over spending a ton of money on a sketchy QB. It's what NFL GMs do. At least Elway dodged the Os bullet.

When I think about it, much of my pessimism centers on the fact that VJ is still our coach, and he hasn't shown any bona fide coaching ability yet.

I'd love for the team to show my lack of confidence to be foolish.

[Shazam!]

They’re drafting Baker Mayfield. Book it.

From your lips to God's ears man.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

******* knew it... I strongly doubt we go QB at 5 now. Worst case scenario. The Broncos are banking on this guy, a guy who’s been cut or let walk from 4 teams now, to be our QBOTF... this is Kubiak’s doing. That guy needs to no-shit retire and get as far from this organization as possible. I had a feeling hiring him as a scout would come back to hurt us. It just did.

The cool thing is, instead of paying the least to have the worst QB in the division, now we’re probably paying the most for the same privilege. :tsk:

Oh well, welcome to the Broncos, Case. It’s not your fault our FO is retarded. Play like you earned that money!

[VonDoom]

They’re drafting Baker Mayfield. Book it.

This would take some of the sting out of the Keenum signing but I doubt it at this point.

[VonDoom]

I hate this move.

PFT says the deal is 18-20 million a year. Reports are that it's "short term." So we're paying good money for a bridge QB? A bridge to nowhere, presumably.

If this is the type of move Kubiak the executive makes, he should have stayed retired. Enough with the underdog, try hard mediocre Kubiak QB.

Keenum is probably good enough to get us to 8-8 regularly, thereby keeping us from drafting a top QB in future years. We also spent most of our FA budget on him now. Great job, guys!

[chazoe60]

All I know is that every time I watched the Vikings last year I thought to my self "I wish the Broncos had Keenum." I think we still draft a QB. Maybe not at 5 but in the first 2 rounds. Maybe we get Buffaloes 2 first rounders, that'd be sweet now that the pick at 12 and 22 or whatever.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

All I know is that every time I watched the Vikings last year I thought to my self "I wish the Broncos had Keenum." I think we still draft a QB. Maybe not at 5 but in the first 2 rounds. Maybe we get Buffaloes 2 first rounders, that'd be sweet now that the pick at 12 and 22 or whatever.

The problem is, drafting QBs outside the top ten or in the 2nd round or whatever gets you Brock Osweiler. We have our chance, one of the only we’ll probably get this decade, to finally draft our own franchise QBOTF. I think the Keenum signing just shot that to shit. I think we’ll be right back here in 2 years looking for another QB except we’ll be drafting high teens due to our 7-9 record. We have/had a chance to try to fix this problem now instead we pussed out and signed a higher priced “safe” Siemian.

Well, this for sure puts the nail in ClownShoes’ coffin! It might put the nail in in Elway’s too. Honestly this was the worst move we could’ve made.

[chazoe60]

The problem is, drafting QBs outside the top ten or in the 2nd round or whatever gets you Brock Osweiler. We have our chance, one of the only we’ll probably get this decade, to finally draft our own franchise QBOTF. I think the Keenum signing just shot that to shit. I think we’ll be right back here in 2 years looking for another QB except we’ll be drafting high teens due to our 7-9 record. We have/had a chance to try to fix this problem now instead we pussed out and signed a higher priced “safe” Siemian. ****!

What if we walk away from this draft with Nelson/Hernandez and Mason Rudolph? Or Nelson and McGlinchey? Fix our OL in one fell swoop. I'd be cool with that.

And look at the graphic posted earlier, Keenum gives me some hope. He's better than anything we've had since PFM.

[chazoe60]

For what it's worth...

This graphic

[VonDoom]

The problem is, drafting QBs outside the top ten or in the 2nd round or whatever gets you Brock Osweiler. We have our chance, one of the only we’ll probably get this decade, to finally draft our own franchise QBOTF. I think the Keenum signing just shot that to shit. I think we’ll be right back here in 2 years looking for another QB except we’ll be drafting high teens due to our 7-9 record. We have/had a chance to try to fix this problem now instead we pussed out and signed a higher priced “safe” Siemian.

Well, this for sure puts the nail in ClownShoes’ coffin! It might put the nail in in Elway’s too. Honestly this was the worst move we could’ve made.

I agree with everything you're saying. We have a chance to draft in the top five and get our guy for the next decade and we do this instead. We'll be spinning our wheels and going .500 for a few years without actually doing anything.

[VonDoom]

What if we walk away from this draft with Nelson/Hernandez and Mason Rudolph? Or Nelson and McGlinchey? Fix our OL in one fell swoop. I'd be cool with that.

And look at the graphic posted earlier, Keenum gives me some hope. He's better than anything we've had since PFM.

That graphic earlier in the thread was about Keenum last year ... the one good year he's ever had. Do you really think he'll be that good again?

Remember, he was on a better overall team last year with a better defense. And even still, that team nearly lost a home playoff game if not for a miracle / defensive lapse, then got destroyed the next week. The Vikings liked him so much, they made no move to re-sign him.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

What if we walk away from this draft with Nelson/Hernandez and Mason Rudolph? Or Nelson and McGlinchey? Fix our OL in one fell swoop. I'd be cool with that.

And look at the graphic posted earlier, Keenum gives me some hope. He's better than anything we've had since PFM.

Saying he’s “better than anything we’ve had since PFM” is, well... so obvious it’s painful. We’ve had the worst QB room in the NFL since PFM retired. That graphic is based on having a Vikings team that ran the ball... effectively more than any other in the league and having a stifling defense. Keenum really wasn’t asked to do much and when he was he had 3 good receivers, a good TE, and a great receiving RB. He’s a sham. You’ll see.

As far as the line goes, that would be nice, except I think we need more pass rushers. I don’t think we need Nelson and I think he’s a waste of a high first round pick as a Guard, but I’ve made that argument before.

[UnderArmour]

The more I think about it, the more I love the move. Case plays with the heart of a champion, and is good at extending plays. He is not a top 5 QB, but honestly is Kirk Cousins really either? Case outplayed two first round picks on his own roster last year, and led his team on a wild ride that ended with a loss to a dominate team.

With that said, this is more of a Jake Plummer than a Peyton Manning signing, but depending on dollars, we can still make a move on Solder or a defensive lineman.

[Nomad]

Welcome to the BRONCOS, Case Keenum.

Elway.....Nelson@#5. TIA.

[MasterShake]

Outside of getting Cousins (which I personally wasn't too keen on for the price-tag) it always seemed our move given our circumstances was to get a bridge guy to float the team a few years and develop a rookie QB. At least going into the season I know where this team stands. I think Keenum could help right the ship and it gives the Broncos more options with the #1 pick. Regardless of QB woes, we lack depth at many key areas so let's build this thing back up and maybe we can squeak out a playoff berth this year. I guess I know jack shit about QB's because I was pretty happy to hear the news that we got an upgrade at the position.

Here's to competent football! At least every time he drops back I won't be wincing waiting for a pick six.

[Mike]

I would rather have Keenum and a revamped team, than Cousins contract and what we have now. This is a move that puts Denver in a better position to fix some problems. Can Elway have a good draft though? And can any moves be enough to overcome Vaj?

[Simple Jaded]

Welcome to the BRONCOS, Case Keenum.

Elway.....Nelson@#5. TIA.

They need a QB at #5.

[Poet]

Is he good enough to make us an actual contender? No.

Is he, if he starts, going to delay the development of a QB that we hypothetically draft in the first round? Yes.

Is he good enough to take us out of a top draft pick to get the actual QBOTF if we don't take one this year? Probably.

What a horrid move. This wasn't enough to revamp the team and make us contenders, and it's not a true rebuild, either. It's the beginning of what looks like a half-baked move stemming from Elway's love affair with another Kubiak guy.

[Simple Jaded]

He’s a 6-0 Brian Griese, “fits the system”.

Since “This ones for Pat” this regime has circled the drain, worst thing could happen is 8-8 and appears to be right where they’re headed.

This is Shanatan/Broncos circa 2000’s.

2012 to 2015, PFM, Ware, Talib, Sanders ... 2018 ... Case Keenum. Just wow.

[Poet]

He’s a 6-0 Brian Griese, “fits the system”.

Since “This ones for Pat” this regime has circled the drain, worst thing could happen is 8-8 and appears to be right where they’re headed.

This is Shanatan/Broncos circa 2000’s.

We sorry.

[chazoe60]

Lotta Debbie downers up in dis bitch.

[Nomad]

They need a QB at #5.

I guess if you want to reach, and be disappointed.

[Freyaka]

Stick a ******* corkscrew in my ******* eye. Sounds much more enjoyable than watching this putz for a year.

I'd rather stick my package in a blender than have this guy as our QB... It's Trevor Siemian all over again and I can't force myself to get hyped up over this again...so annoyed right now.

Wonder who we'll draft with our top 5 pick next year.

[Poet]

Lotta Debbie downers up in dis bitch.

Because the move doesn't do anything to help the team in a substantial way. A one year wonder for what will be a chunk of change is going to take reps and development from the rookie we draft. Or, if we don't draft a first round QB, we then have a team that at best contends for the second WC spot hitting 8-8 and we're stuck out of the reach of a real QB prospect (most likely).

This was a Kubiak hiring. We signed a QB with a horrid career because he had one decent year and Kubiak loves him.

[Freyaka]

They need a QB at #5.

Spoiler alert...They won't take one because I guarantee you, Elway thinks he's found his guy. This move may be Elway's undoing at this point. He's already had a crap ton of questionable moves, this may be the straw that breaks the Broncos back.

[Simple Jaded]

You know, **** the "locker room" moves. They played like shit last year, they don't get to dictate roster moves based on late-night tweets and Instagram messages.

I don't particularly like the move, either, but I'm done with the "gotta make X move because 'locker room.'" They stuck with Siemian way too long for that crap, and it hurt the team in the long run.
It is getting old hearing/reading how defense is mad at offense. This is why in my heart of hearts I thought they should have started PL over TS

[Poet]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KeenCa00.htm

Now quick, someone tell me how he never got a real shot and Jeff Fisher made him suck. Then tell me that what turned into the best one two WR punch in the NFL didn't carry him. Zimmer wasn't even sold on him. His god damn GM isn't even sold on him. God damned Kubiak continues to curse.

[Simple Jaded]

Spoiler alert...They won't take one because I guarantee you, Elway thinks he's found his guy. This move may be Elway's undoing at this point. He's already had a crap ton of questionable moves, this may be the straw that breaks the Broncos back.
This has Kubiak’s fingerprints all over it, Keenum is nobody’s “guy” but Kube’s.

[Rick]

Trying to look at the positive because what the hell else can I do at this point.

Positives are he did well on a defense focused team, like what we have.

He did well with good receivers, like what we have.

He did well with an OC that uses west coast and spread concepts, like we have.

He needs a good running game, so we need to fix this line. No more bullshitting. If you are paying for the lesser QB then the money saved better finally fix some shit. I know you have tried to fix it before...no more trying. Fix it or this will NOT be Keenum 2017.

[CoachChaz]

Never takes too long before I'm reminded how much I'm glad most people here don't get paid to make player evaluations and personnel decisions.

[Poet]

This has Kubiak’s fingerprints all over it, Keenum is nobody’s “guy” but Kube’s.

His own mother thought he was overpaid.

[Simple Jaded]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KeenCa00.htm

Now quick, someone tell me how he never got a real shot and Jeff Fisher made him suck. Then tell me that what turned into the best one two WR punch in the NFL didn't carry him. Zimmer wasn't even sold on him. His god damn GM isn't even sold on him. God damned Kubiak continues to curse.

Then tell me how this coaching staff is supposed to get the ‘17 Keenum going forward.

[Poet]

Never takes too long before I'm reminded how much I'm glad most people here don't get paid to make player evaluations and personnel decisions.

It's funny, because everyone feels that way about everyone who disagrees with them.

At least you don't come off as pretentious, though.

[Simple Jaded]

Never takes too long before I'm reminded how much I'm glad most people here don't get paid to make player evaluations and personnel decisions.

Do you like this Move, Chaz?

[chazoe60]

Because the move doesn't do anything to help the team in a substantial way. A one year wonder for what will be a chunk of change is going to take reps and development from the rookie we draft. Or, if we don't draft a first round QB, we then have a team that at best contends for the second WC spot hitting 8-8 and we're stuck out of the reach of a real QB prospect (most likely).

This was a Kubiak hiring. We signed a QB with a horrid career because he had one decent year and Kubiak loves him.

We got better at the QB position and we're not gonna spend 30+M to do it. Keenum was the second best FA QB truly available (Drew Brees ain't goin' anywhere) and he's considerably cheaper than Cousins.

We have opened ourselves up to do any number of things with the #5 pick and we have some cap space we can spend to hopefully fix our OL which is the biggest hole on the team.

This is a good move you guys.

[Poet]

Then tell me how this coaching staff is supposed to get the ‘17 Keenum going forward.

First, we're going to make sure the best QB on the top team is injured! Then, we're going to get career years from our WR's! Then, we're going to ride the defense! After that we're going to watch the QB suck in the playoffs and then chase other FA QB's....wait a minute....

[Mike]

They need a QB at #5.

They need a BPA or a trade that generates good return value. They do not need to reach at 5 for a QB.

[Simple Jaded]

They need a BPA or a trade that generates good return value. They do not need to reach at 5 for a QB.
Reach? Lol

Case Keenum ... $18-$20 M per. <—- that’s a reach.

[Poet]

We got better at the QB position and we're not gonna spend 30+M to do it. Keenum was the second best FA QB truly available (Drew Brees ain't goin' anywhere) and he's considerably cheaper than Cousins.

We have opened ourselves up to do any number of things with the #5 pick and we have some cap space we can spend to hopefully fix our OL which is the biggest hole on the team.

This is a good move you guys.

We got better at the QB, but not enough to matter. I'd rather spend the money on a real QB. Keenum is a backup whose team couldn't wait to get rid of him. We can do anything with the number five pick like take a QB and retard his development by sitting him behind Keenum, or delay the inevitable and not take a QB.

This is a not a good move. What does this move do for the future? What does it do in the short term? Does anyone want to bet that Keenum made us a real contender for the SB? No. Does anyone want to bet that he's going to be an all-pro QB? No. Does anyone think, after watching the team play bench the first rounder, that if we sign a first round QB, we're doing any favors for the franchise by benching him? I hope not. When Elway said he didn't believe in rebuilds, I was hoping he would go after Cousins hard, and not do some half-baked foolishness like this.

The most optimistic one can be is that the division is week this year, we win it, and don't get murderized in the playoffs. That's our ceiling.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I think the only two FA QB's that are franchise type QB's are Brees and Cousins. Keenum is probably the best of the rest. Brees isn't going anywhere and we were not really in the running for Cousins. Additionally is Cousins worth top QB money for a 2nd tier (at best) talent? You don't build championship teams by crippling your salary cap with a few players. If it's a top tier guy, then yes, but Cousins hasn't been that guy yet.

The draft is the best bet for finding a Tier 1 guy, and that is a total crapshoot. If you go back and look at the history of the modern draft you only have a 30-40% chance of getting a 10 year top QB out of the draft. Injuries, guys not panning out, etc. usually doom you to trying over and over to get "the guy". Definitely not a surefire way of getting a HOF or near-HOF QB.

So where does that leave us? Build a hell of a team and try to get decent but not great QB play. That means hitting in the draft and FA both and building a stacked team. Another route can be take a chance on a QB in the draft while Keenum gives us middle of the road QB play. Whether it be Allen or Jackson, get a draft pick with a lot of upside that could be a dynamic player. Then if they don't pan out you can try again a couple of years later.

I'm ok with this approach given the circumstances.

[Simple Jaded]

We don’t know that they got better at QB, Keenum’s never played a down for this organization. There’s a huge chance Case Keenum is still just Case ******* Keenum.

[chazoe60]

The fact that so many seem to hate the move kinda makes me like it more. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[chazoe60]

2 year 36M contract is being reported. Very team friendly in this climate. It doesn't tie us to him and doesn't mean he won't have competition.

[Poet]

2 year 36M contract is being reported. Very team friendly in this climate. It doesn't tie us to him and doesn't mean he won't have competition.

Waste of money. Hope we draft a rookie in the first round. Hope that the rookie gets to play the season.

[DenBronx]

They need a QB at #5.

Spoiler alert...They won't take one because I guarantee you, Elway thinks he's found his guy. This move may be Elway's undoing at this point. He's already had a crap ton of questionable moves, this may be the straw that breaks the Broncos back.


Could be, it is definitely risky.

[BigDaddyBronco]

2 year 36M contract is being reported. Very team friendly in this climate. It doesn't tie us to him and doesn't mean he won't have competition.

That short a contract, and we might be picking a QB at 5.

[Freyaka]

We got better at the QB position and we're not gonna spend 30+M to do it..

Did we though? I'm not convinced.

And we're still going to spend $18M to do it which is far too much for Trevor Siemian 2.0

[Davii]

Lotta Debbie downers up in dis bitch.

The only things that are ever certain, Debbie Downers everywhere and people bitching about posting here. Oh, and taxes. And death. So, I guess four things.

[Poet]

The only things that are ever certain, Debbie Downers everywhere and people bitching about posting here. Oh, and taxes. And death. So, I guess four things.

I hate you.

[chazoe60]

Did we though? I'm not convinced.

And we're still going to spend $18M to do it which is far too much for Trevor Siemian 2.0

Okay.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I hope the rumors of trading P. Lynch are true. I would take a half eaten sandwich for him. Hell, can they trade him for cash? A player to be named later? Anything?

[chazoe60]

I hope the rumors of trading P. Lynch are true. I would take a half eaten sandwich for him. Hell, can they trade him for cash? A player to be named later? Anything?

Trade him for a shovel to use after Thunder runs wild all over mile high stadium.

[Poet]

The nightmare scenario is we bench Keenum because he's playing like shit and then we put TS back into the game because we didn't draft a rookie.

[VonDoom]

https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/973554512848826369?s=21

https://twitter.com/allbrightnfl/status/973555573261189121?s=21

[Davii]

The nightmare scenario is we bench Keenum because he's playing like shit and then we put TS back into the game because we didn't draft a rookie.

What if we DO draft a rookie, hell even at 5, and he's so bad he can't beat out CK or TS?

THAT'S a nightmare, and a very possible/plausible one...

[chazoe60]

The nightmare scenario is we bench Keenum because he's playing like shit and then we put TS back into the game because we didn't draft a rookie.
TS won't be a Bronco.

[Rick]

I would hope if they don't trade TS that they flat cut him.

[Poet]

What if we DO draft a rookie, hell even at 5, and he's so bad he can't beat out CK or TS?

THAT'S a nightmare, and a very possible/plausible one...

You start him and let him learn. Many all-time great QB's were shit as rookies.

[CoachChaz]

Do you like this Move, Chaz?

I do. From a productivity perspective (yes, only one good year for Case), we got a player just as good as Cousins for much cheaper. And as much as people want to piss on how his road prior to Minnesota was set up for him or ANY QB to fail, reality is it was. Now I read how his defense made him good, which I dont really get since we relied on a defense to win a Super Bowl and carry a half dead Manning. Then I read how he benefitted from good WR's...which we happen to have. Funny that I dont see anyone mention that Thielen and Diggs didn't have their Pro-Bowl most productive pro seasons until AFTER Keenum became the QB. But apparently playing well for 16 games last year was just a flash in the pan and teams didn't have enough film or time to figure him out.

So what are we getting...a WCO QB who had a great season on a team with a bad line, but good receivers and a good defense to come in and play for a WCO OC with a bad line, but good receivers and a good defense. And for cheap and for a short term to bridge to the QB of the future. Boohoo. What a horrible day.

[Northman]

I'm still worried about the one year Wonder Factor but I hope he leaves works out for a couple years

[Northman]

Denver trying to pull a Rich Gannon out of the hat with Case Keenum. It lets them go away from 1st rd QBs (gotta disagree with you Mo, don't see Mayfield now) and sets them up to be trade partners with the Bills in the right scenario for extra first round picks.

We'll see what the guarantees and annual rate is for Keenum but at 2/3 the price of Cousins (at most, I would think) we'll hopefully have funds left over for other needs too. Now fix the OL - properly this time. I know Case likes to make shit up, but we shouldn't make it mandatory on every play.

Yeah I don't see quarterback in the first round of either at this point B kind of dumb to do that now take Nelson or another line or even Berkeley if he's available

[MasterShake]

What if we DO draft a rookie, hell even at 5, and he's so bad he can't beat out CK or TS?

THAT'S a nightmare, and a very possible/plausible one...

The nightmare scenario is that our lack of offensive production after losing Manning finally breaks the back of our elite defense, causing locker room drama and leaving a leadership vacuum across the team. Questionable drafting then leads to a further degradation of our offensive line which was masked by having Manning, making any QB that lines up behind center a quaking mess that lobs bean bag-like footballs right into the greedy hands of opposing DB's. Then we go 5-11 with an aging team and holes all over the place and elite QBs don't want to come here anymo... hey! Wait a minute...

Seriously though, we have been in rebuild mode since Elway hoisted the Lombardi Trophy. The team is just finally letting the fans know whats up and I am ok with that. It's crazy to think that the Super Bowl MVP is probably going to another team and the other QB that played in the NFC Championship game is coming to us. After Siemian and our other stable of QB's crapped down his pants last year and we got to experience a Cleveland Browns level of QB rotations in ONE SEASON I for one welcome the upgrade at the position. I don't see how people are saying he is Siemian 2.0. And even if it turns out to be just a slight upgrade, the deal seems to at least be team friendly. Not sure why Cousins would come here when we would be a step sideways, possibly even backwards, in his career at the current state of things.

[CoachChaz]

I'm still worried about the one year Wonder Factor but I hope he leaves works out for a couple years

Personally, I think one year wonders are more due to the system fit than the talent. Cassel was good in a system that worked for him, but not after. Beyond him, I really cant think of many one year wonders that had great seasons. Maybe you could throw Mitchell and Anderson in this mix, but none of them were in great scenarios to begin with.

[CoachChaz]

The nightmare scenario is that our lack of offensive production after losing Manning finally breaks the back of our elite defense, causing locker room drama and leaving a leadership vacuum across the team. Questionable drafting then leads to a further degradation of our offensive line which was masked by having Manning, making any QB that lines up behind center a quaking mess that lobs bean bag-like footballs right into the greedy hands of opposing DB's. Then we go 5-11 with an aging team and holes all over the place and elite QBs don't want to come here anymo... hey! Wait a minute...

Seriously though, we have been in rebuild mode since Elway hoisted the Lombardi Trophy. The team is just finally letting the fans know whats up and I am ok with that. It's crazy to think that the Super Bowl MVP is probably going to another team and the other QB that played in the NFC Championship game is coming to us. After Siemian and our other stable of QB's crapped down his pants last year and we got to experience a Cleveland Browns level of QB rotations in ONE SEASON I for one welcome the upgrade at the position. I don't see how people are saying he is Siemian 2.0. And even if it turns out to be just a slight upgrade, the deal seems to at least be team friendly. Not sure why Cousins would come here when we would be a step sideways, possibly even backwards, in his career at the current state of things.

For what it's worth, the people calling it "Siemian 2.0" clearly do not truly watch professional football.

[Rick]

I did see some break downs of Keenum this morning and one nice thing the scouts were saying is that he sees the field and goes through his progressions.

Didn't see a whole lot of that on our team last year(s).

I am trying to be optimistic and look at the positives but it will really depend on what they do the rest of the way to support him.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

2 year 36M contract is being reported. Very team friendly in this climate. It doesn't tie us to him and doesn't mean he won't have competition.

Or it just means Elway wants to give Lynch 2 more years...

[CoachChaz]

Or it just means Elway wants to give Lynch 2 more years...

Or maybe he's giving Kelly some extra time.

[Rick]

The fanatic(s) on this board that love the hell out of Kelly but hate this move are talking out of their asses.

IF the Broncos do not take a QB high because of this signing this majorly opens a door for Kelly to be the guy very soon.

Those people should love this and be pissed if the Broncs draft someone...

[Freyaka]

Or maybe he doesn't know what the hell he's doing anymore

[aberdien]

I'm actually ok with this as comically typical it is of the Broncos. I prefer it to getting Cousins. I think Keenum is lame and the season will suck, but draft wise this means we can save the QB pick until late in the first round when we can get Mason Rudolph.

Elway will probably pick that manchild from OU though. I say get OL or trade back to get a olineman and a QB.

[Elevation inc]

I like this. Its a bridge signing of a guy on the upside of his career. Gives us good flexibility to build this team the right way. Contract probably wont be expensive or long.

[Hawgdriver]

Lotta Debbie downers up in dis bitch.

Doctor: you have aids
Patient: yay!

But actually, I'm warming up to it. Definitely no longer butthurt and emo. Case is a fighter, so I got his back. Team needs a QB while an Allen/Darnold etc. matures. Draft day Broncos operate from position of strength and flexibility.

We ride...

[Elevation inc]

Keenum reminds me a bit of McCown keeps getting better the longer he stays in the league. I Don't think a wild card or playoff berth with him is out of reach as long as we fix the OL.

[Hawgdriver]

His own mother thought he was overpaid.

Stop making me like the guy!

[Cugel]

Sort of feel like Elway panicked with Cousins. He should of waited it out.

According to Adam Schefter everybody knew that Cousins would go with either the best team or the best money. Well, Denver was neither.

The Jets are all set to blow the market away by fully guaranteeing Cousin's contract (they deny it but they will have to do that if they want Cousins).

And the Vikings offer the best team with the best chance to win now (11-3 and NFC Championship Game versus 5-11 and no offensive talent at all outside ageing DT and Sanders).

So, even if Denver went all in on Cousins, they probably don't land him, (according to Schefter) and by the time Cousins gets through his tour and decides, Keenum might have signed elsewhere. Now you're down to what? Teddy Bridgewater and his gimpy knee or Sam Bradford who's just gimpy period?

According to Schefter Keenum's deal is expected to be somewhere around HALF of what Cousins will get. So, they cut Talib, save $12m, sign Keenum.

It's a simple equation: Nate Solder + Keenum > Cousins. (Although the Browns might price them out of the market).

Now they have the money to go after Solder, put him in at LT, move Bolles to RT, draft G Nelson at #5, and move Ron Leary back to his natural LG position. Their OL next season could be really good, which would give Keenum a chance to be as good as he was in 2017.

[Poet]

Stop making me like the guy!

Don't worry, when you see him play and realize that his existence on the team is antithetical to roster building you'll hate him.

[CoachChaz]

According to Adam Schefter everybody knew that Cousins would go with either the best team or the best money. Well, Denver was neither.

The Jets are all set to blow the market away by fully guaranteeing Cousin's contract (they deny it but they will have to do that if they want Cousins).

And the Vikings offer the best team with the best chance to win now (11-3 and NFC Championship Game versus 5-11 and no offensive talent at all outside ageing DT and Sanders).

So, even if Denver went all in on Cousins, they probably don't land him, (according to Schefter) and by the time Cousins gets through his tour and decides, Keenum might have signed elsewhere. Now you're down to what? Teddy Bridgewater and his gimpy knee or Sam Bradford who's just gimpy period?

According to Schefter Keenum's deal is expected to be somewhere around HALF of what Cousins will get. So, they cut Talib, save $12m, sign Keenum.

It's a simple equation: Nate Solder + Keenum > Cousins. (Although the Browns might price them out of the market).

Now they have the money to go after Solder, put him in at LT, move Bolles to RT, draft G Nelson at #5, and move Ron Leary back to his natural LG position. Their OL next season could be really good, which would give Keenum a chance to be as good as he was in 2017.

I still don't understand why people are so quick to take a player that is still pretty green at the LT position and ask him to forget everything he's learned, change his footwork and mentality and move to the other side of the line. Smarter and more cap friendly move would be looking at a guy like Chris Hubbard to come in and lock down RT. No, Bolles isn't the world's greatest LT, but he could be worse at RT.

[G_Money]

I'm fine with Keenum as a short-term lease with an option to buy if it works out. Better that than 2 years of trying to make Siemian more than a backup or Lynch more than a tree stump by starting them 16 games a year. Denver has a lot of needs and a lot of draft picks to address those needs. It lets the Broncos avoid drafting a QB with their top-5 pick if they should so choose... and I hope they so choose.

This draft is very important to Denver. I would love for them to find their QB, but I would also love for them to replenish their depleted stock at several positions and get an OL that they can both run and pass behind. If Keenum helps them focus their draft on other positions instead of burning capital to move up (again) for a guy who isn't the answer, that's all right with me.

Maybe I'm just not sold enough on any one QB in this draft, though.

[Cugel]

This gives Denver tremendous flexibility in the draft. They could take a QB at #5 if one falls they love. The Keenum deal is likely to be 2 years guaranteed.

If they want they take G Nelson at #5 and get a potential Hall of Fame G to strengthen their OL. That guy is a beast by all reports. He just plants people on their backs consistently. And he's mean.

Or, they could trade back with the Bills who just moved up to #12 and want to move higher to draft a QB. In that case they might get a T like McGlinchy or Orlando Brown.

Or Barkley or Chubb or Minkah Fitzpatrick could fall to them and they get a Pro-Bowl caliber impact player.

In short, with this move the Broncos roster is set to be much better in 2018 than it was last year. Whether that translates into a division title and playoff wins is another question, but it is definitely stronger.

With a realistically 2 year guarantee, the Broncos could get out of the deal after the 2019 season if they wanted to, or if Paxton Lynch(Ha!) or Chad Kelly ever develop into a star Qb. And if Keenum plays like he did in 2017 they get a top 10 QB (although not top 5 elite QB).

Question of the day from Adam Schefter: "Is Kirk Cousins worth $10m a year more than Case Keenum?" That was the question the Broncos had to answer.

If the reports that the Broncos were never all in on Cousins are accurate, then that could be the reason too. Paying him $30m a year would handicap them too much in getting the rest of their roster fixed. I don't necessarily buy that but it could be their thinking.

[Cugel]

I still don't understand why people are so quick to take a player that is still pretty green at the LT position and ask him to forget everything he's learned, change his footwork and mentality and move to the other side of the line. Smarter and more cap friendly move would be looking at a guy like Chris Hubbard to come in and lock down RT. No, Bolles isn't the world's greatest LT, but he could be worse at RT.

He's unlikely to be worse after a year's experience in the NFL. But Nate Solder is an elite LT and Bolles isn't.

So, if they signed Solder (or another veteran LT) and paid them $12m a year, they are NOT going to move that veteran to RT so that Bolles can continue to be mediocre at the most important position on the offense outside of QB.

Look at how effective Ryan Ramcyck was for the Saints last year. Was he really that much better than Bolles (i.e. the Broncos blew it in the draft) or was he simply better because he was put in at RT on a team that had some talent around him, especially at QB?

If the Browns offer Nate Solder $15m a year or something (they have the cap room to do it) then it becomes less likely the Broncos sign him. In that case they might just move back in the draft and get a T there. Or they might sign another FA LT.

Either way, moving Bolles to RT might actually help him if he had the entire off-season to prepare. Yes, it's a transition, but that is a question of reps.

[BroncoJoe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FAfsoh1wYo

[Poet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FAfsoh1wYo

Pretty much all his highlights are in one season and occurred with a team that couldn't wait to get rid of him.

[BroncoJoe]

Pretty much all his highlights are in one season and occurred with a team that couldn't wait to get rid of him.

You shut your whore mouth! He's our new QB. Embrace him. Love him.

PS - that's 26 minutes of one season. Our past QB's would have around 5 minutes of highlights over the past 2 years.

[Poet]

You shut your whore mouth! He's our new QB. Embrace him. Love him.

PS - that's 26 minutes of one season. Our past QB's would have around 5 minutes of highlights over the past 2 years.

Joe, I will embrace him and try to be optimistic.

The possible narrative would be glorious, right? A journeyman QB being dumped by the team that he helped so much. He had to get out in front of the QB market as another prized QB was wrecking the market. He comes to a franchise where his former coach and adviser is in the ear of a GM. He turns around a franchise headed in the wrong direction.

[Rick]

His former number was #7, has to be an omen right??

[Cugel]

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe View Post
You shut your whore mouth! He's our new QB. Embrace him. Love him.

PS - that's 26 minutes of one season. Our past QB's would have around 5 minutes of highlights over the past 2 years.

I'm curious what kind of highlights Paxton Lynch could put together? Warming up? Goofing around on the sidelines during practice? Playing Nintendo? Wearing pirate garb on Halloween and asking "have ye seen any sign o' the Black Pearl?"

And Trevor's highlights would have to include him standing on the sideline with his arm in a sling.

Keenum has stayed healthy.

[Cugel]

His former number was #7, has to be an omen right??

Except that his # before that was 17, like Brock Osweiler.

I'm enthusiastic thinking that Keenum will be good, but let's not get into any Elway references.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

For what it's worth, the people calling it "Siemian 2.0" clearly do not truly watch professional football.

Or, it’s possible we’ve just watched more than the Vikings’ 2017 season. Bradford was also on fire before he blew out his knee again in that offense. Maybe Keenum (and I hope so) will be good for us. Maybe he’s gonna Matt Flynn/Mike Glennon the shit outta us.

[CoachChaz]

Except that his # before that was 17, like Brock Osweiler.

I'm enthusiastic thinking that Keenum will be good, but let's not get into any Elway references.

He's worn 7 all of his life other than the Rams (retired, Bob Waterfield), and obviously it will need to change here. Maybe 17 again...who knows...who cares.

[CoachChaz]

Or, it’s possible we’ve just watched more than the Vikings’ 2017 season. Bradford was also on fire before he blew out his knee again in that offense. Maybe Keenum (and I hope so) will be good for us. Maybe he’s gonna Matt Flynn/Mike Glennon the shit outta us.

They have completely different sill sets. Keenum and Siemian shouldn't even be in the same conversation other than they both play QB.

And if Bradford didn't have a degenerative knee, he'd be making 25 million as a franchise QB on some team right now. Might be the best pure passer in the NFL.

[Poet]

To be fair to CK, unlike TS, CK has a NFL arm and isn't a coward.

[wayninja]

I guess I just would have preferred to keep Talib if we were going this route. That's just me though.

[Rick]

Except that his # before that was 17, like Brock Osweiler.

I'm enthusiastic thinking that Keenum will be good, but let's not get into any Elway references.

It was in jest, wouldn't read too much into it.

[Krugan]

Pretty much all his highlights are in one season and occurred with a team that couldn't wait to get rid of him.

To be fair, it does say 2017 highlights right above the video... ;)

[Slick]

I'm fine with this. Gives the team a lot more flexibility on draft day.

[Rick]

A few interesting points. Not sure it is 100% fool proof but interesting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T84f-HnY_2Y

[Tbolt]

I did throw up while reading this. Not because I don't like Keenum, but because I put a piece of string cheese in my mouth that tasted moldy. Hope the two events are not linked.

To think, before last year, Elway could have signed Keenum and Foles on the cheap...

[Buff]

Here are the things I like about the Keenum signing:

-- He has been consistently undervalued in his career, and exceeded expectations at each stop.
-- Unlike Cousins who would have come with massive expectations and no margin for error - Keenum can still outperform expectations and left us with some salary cap room to address other needs.
-- That playoff experience he got with Minnesota is really valuable - he's coming off a career year and immediately upgrades the position.
-- He's not the flashy signing, but the one that Elway and Kubiak think is the better fit from a football standpoint - I can respect that. The fact that he is a known commodity gives me a little added confidence.
-- Now we have the flexibility to do whatever we want at #5. We can also see if Chad Kelly offers anything legitimate.
-- Our roster is really built for an immediate plug and play guy moreso than a rookie rebuild. This allows us to capitalize on DT and Sanders' windows and a quality veteran defense.

Here are the things I worry about with the Keenum signing:

-- It seemed like he shrank in the playoffs last year - and you wonder whether he is a guy who can lead you to the promised land.
-- I wonder what the longterm plan is at the position. Does this just ensure mediocrity while we kick the can down the road? Are we squandering an opportunity to take a guy this high in the draft?
-- Could we get this same production for cheaper? Are we overpaying for a guy who had all the stars align last season?

[Poet]

He was a backup in Houston and played like a backup. He exceeded nothing there.

Keenum's expectations are lower because he's a lower tier player. TS exceeded expectations when he was the starter the next year, and when he made the NFL in the first place. Being shitty and being less shitty than people thought isn't an accomplishment.

Him getting his teeth kicked in and needing Diggs + The Dream 2.0 isn't valuable. It just means in his heart he knows he's shit.

Kubiak loves him. We know that this is a death sentence now. He's not a known commodity other than that he's been shit. And his actual merit is so unknown that the team where he was good (once) couldn't wait to replace him.

Our roster talent is dwindling and we either needed a complete retool or a big time QB to make it work. We got neither.

[Cugel]

Or, it’s possible we’ve just watched more than the Vikings’ 2017 season. Bradford was also on fire before he blew out his knee again in that offense. Maybe Keenum (and I hope so) will be good for us. Maybe he’s gonna Matt Flynn/Mike Glennon the shit outta us.

Bradford really is a good very accurate QB - except that he's a china doll. People underestimate that. There's a reason the Vikings kept trying to get him back on the field. In 2016 he was their starting QB and threw 20 TDs and only 5 Ints, 3877 yards and a completion percentage of 71.6%. He would certainly have been the Vikings long term franchise QB if he could have stayed healthy, which he couldn't.

The Vikings will probably re-sign him if they can't sign Cousins. Then they'd get to see whether either of the two gimps, Bradford or Bridgewater can get on the field.

I think it would be awesome if Keenum lights it up for the Broncos, while Cousins signs with the Jets leaving the Vikings to twist slowly in the wind with Bradford and/or Bridgewater. After losing their arbitration with Bridgewater it would take some doing to get him back to the Vikings. They seem awfully confident they are getting Cousins to let Keenum, Bridewater and Bradford all walk.

[Buff]

He was a backup in Houston and played like a backup. He exceeded nothing there.

Keenum's expectations are lower because he's a lower tier player. TS exceeded expectations when he was the starter the next year, and when he made the NFL in the first place. Being shitty and being less shitty than people thought isn't an accomplishment.

Him getting his teeth kicked in and needing Diggs + The Dream 2.0 isn't valuable. It just means in his heart he knows he's shit.

Kubiak loves him. We know that this is a death sentence now. He's not a known commodity other than that he's been shit. And his actual merit is so unknown that the team where he was good (once) couldn't wait to replace him.

Our roster talent is dwindling and we either needed a complete retool or a big time QB to make it work. We got neither.

He was an undrafted free agent. He exceeded expectations in Houston merely by making the roster... We all know there is downside here - but there is also a chance that we've got a guy who is perennially undervalued by the league. :whoknows:

[CoachChaz]

He was a backup in Houston and played like a backup. He exceeded nothing there.

Keenum's expectations are lower because he's a lower tier player. TS exceeded expectations when he was the starter the next year, and when he made the NFL in the first place. Being shitty and being less shitty than people thought isn't an accomplishment.

Him getting his teeth kicked in and needing Diggs + The Dream 2.0 isn't valuable. It just means in his heart he knows he's shit.

Kubiak loves him. We know that this is a death sentence now. He's not a known commodity other than that he's been shit. And his actual merit is so unknown that the team where he was good (once) couldn't wait to replace him.

Our roster talent is dwindling and we either needed a complete retool or a big time QB to make it work. We got neither.

He was a back-up because he was a UDFA and played on a bad Houston team...

Diggs and Thielen did not make him, in fact they were considered mid-level talent until this past year when they had Keenum at QB...

We can still retool around the talent we have, but that is up to Elway and the draft...

Gotta look at the bigger picture more and less through the microscope.

[Nomad]

I guess I don't get why the meltdowns without seeing what the BRONCOS do in FA, and the draft.

[Cugel]

-- Now we have the flexibility to do whatever we want at #5. We can also see if Chad Kelly offers anything legitimate.

That will depend on whether the Broncos draft a QB at #5. If they do, then Kelly is almost certainly gone, since they don't need 3 developmental QBs and they still have Paxton Lynch who Elway refuses to give up on.

Alfred Williams keeps insisting "Paxton Lynch is going to be on this roster. Count on it." I sure hope he's wrong! But, he's probably right.

The fans' view of Kelly and the teams' view of Kelly has never been similar. They just don't value him as much.

[Poet]

He was a back-up because he was a UDFA and played on a bad Houston team...

Diggs and Thielen did not make him, in fact they were considered mid-level talent until this past year when they had Keenum at QB...

We can still retool around the talent we have, but that is up to Elway and the draft...

Gotta look at the bigger picture more and less through the microscope.

He was a backup because when he was out on the field he played like a backup. And he was a UDFA because, not by accident, that's where his track record and talent put him.

Diggs has been a good WR before, and the two of those guys were making a lot of tough catches that he threw up for them.

It's hard to retool when you spend the bulk of your money on a bad QB.

I'm looking at the big picture when I'm projecting out not just to this draft/offseason, but to next year as well. He's going to be good enough to get us to seven or eight wins. And that puts us out of contention for a real QB without trading up. Which means, if we take a guy this year, he's going to waste time on the bench as we try our best to contend for the second WC. That is the biggest of big pictures, Coach.

[Cugel]

Nobody can be sure that Keenum is the player he appeared last season when he threw for 22 Tds and 7 Ints. But, it's more likely that he is that player than the one who sucked under Jeff Fisher.


He was a backup because when he was out on the field he played like a backup. And he was a UDFA because, not by accident, that's where his track record and talent put him.

So, he sucked under Jeff Fisher? So did Nick Foles and Jared Goff for that matter. None of them sucked last year. I don't know why Goff is now a franchise QB teams expected him to be, Foles is SB MVP, but Keenum still sucks because he sucked for the Rams under Fisher?

[CoachChaz]

He was a backup because when he was out on the field he played like a backup. And he was a UDFA because, not by accident, that's where his track record and talent put him.

Diggs has been a good WR before, and the two of those guys were making a lot of tough catches that he threw up for them.

It's hard to retool when you spend the bulk of your money on a bad QB.

I'm looking at the big picture when I'm projecting out not just to this draft/offseason, but to next year as well. He's going to be good enough to get us to seven or eight wins. And that puts us out of contention for a real QB without trading up. Which means, if we take a guy this year, he's going to waste time on the bench as we try our best to contend for the second WC. That is the biggest of big pictures, Coach.

It's all opinion based on no more than the amount of thought and research that you choose to put into it to feed your argument.

[Poet]

It's all opinion based on no more than the amount of thought and research that you choose to put into it to feed your argument.

Yeah, tell me about my opinion and my research. I'm sorry I'm using the facts that are out there. I've said nothing factually incorrect, and I've been vocal for quite some time about how I didn't want him, and how I didn't believe in him during the run he had. So, again, I've had a consistent opinion on his career. His HC in Minny, the Minny organization, the Texans organization sans Kubiak (who never gave him the job) and the Rams have all passed on him. Did you hear anyone else heavily interested in him? Exactly whom has been pumping him up other Kubiak and a portion of the media? Or, is it all this film that you watch? Because you watch film on an amatuer level, just like the rest of us do/rely on the analysts, and no I'm not just referring to ESPN.

I don't know when you became such an unpleasant person, because I remember loving posting with you. Good grief.

[BroncoWave]

I'm reserving judgement of this move until after the draft. I haven't really made up my mind yet.

[Poet]

I'm reserving judgement of this move until after the draft. I haven't really made up my mind yet.

That's fair.

[CoachChaz]

Yeah, tell me about my opinion and my research. I'm sorry I'm using the facts that are out there. I've said nothing factually incorrect, and I've been vocal for quite some time about how I didn't want him, and how I didn't believe in him during the run he had. So, again, I've had a consistent opinion on his career. His HC in Minny, the Minny organization, the Texans organization sans Kubiak (who never gave him the job) and the Rams have all passed on him. Did you hear anyone else heavily interested in him? Exactly whom has been pumping him up other Kubiak and a portion of the media? Or, is it all this film that you watch? Because you watch film on an amatuer level, just like the rest of us do/rely on the analysts, and no I'm not just referring to ESPN.

I don't know when you became such an unpleasant person, because I remember loving posting with you. Good grief.

All I'm saying is look at the scenarios on a deeper level. Look at why he wasn't just handed a starting job...look at why he didn't always have success when he had opportunities. The answers are so much deeper than simply not being good enough. But your comments seem to just glance over the basics of each scenario.

[wayninja]

I'm fine to reserve judgment, but my gut tells me that Keenum had a career year last year and it's likely not to be repeated.

Melting down is a fairly extreme position, but on the other hand, so is acting like we fleeced the vikings.

[Poet]

All I'm saying is look at the scenarios on a deeper level. Look at why he wasn't just handed a starting job...look at why he didn't always have success when he had opportunities. The answers are so much deeper than simply not being good enough. But your comments seem to just glance over the basics of each scenario.

Scenario one - he looked like a system QB coming out of college. He was a UDFA because physically he wasn't impressive and couldn't overcome the system production knock.

He never got a job in Houston, even when he started a chunk of the season due to injuries, because he didn't play well. Was his situation ideal? No. But a 9 to 6 TD INT ratio isn't good. He was awful in LA, and while he had Fisher, and while that situation was bad, he didn't do anything well.

And then, he got to Minny and was the third guy. And as the third guy he was in a great scenario and did okay. He had an okay season in today's game. Dogfish said it best - you're paying a lot of money for an expensive game manager. And that was his ceiling. I'm skeptical of people who can only do well in good situations. The closest he ever was regarding be good, sans last year, was that half season as the starter in Texas. And I did see him play, throughout his entire career. And he's never looked good. There's a certain point where if you're good enough, you can make something happen.

I am aware of his career and his career trajectory. I think everyone is because he's been a huge story for the past season/offseason.

[VonDoom]

Robert Mays weighing in with a point I’ve been trying to make for weeks:


The Broncos’ case is particularly intriguing. If we estimate that Denver’s deal for Keenum falls somewhere in the ballpark of an $18 million cap hit, several additional questions emerge. Even after dealing corner Aqib Talib to the Rams, Denver had only $29 million or so remaining in 2018 cap room. No matter how its deal for Keenum is structured, that cost will likely consume more than half of the Broncos’ available space. When Denver fielded the league’s best defense and a fairly complete supporting cast, bumping up against the cap to find an effective quarterback may have seemed like a worthwhile risk. Those days are gone. Elway has been forced to make concessions at every level of his defense, running back remains a question mark, and the offensive line requires significant work. With Keenum on board, Denver probably still fails to move the needle in the AFC, and if spending more than 10 percent of the cap on a veteran quarterback isn’t a team’s final roster flourish, then signing that quarterback may not be prudent.

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/2018/3/13/17111780/quarterback-market-free-agency-draft-kirk-cousins?__twitter_impression=true

[CoachChaz]

Scenario one - he looked like a system QB coming out of college. He was a UDFA because physically he wasn't impressive and couldn't overcome the system production knock.

He never got a job in Houston, even when he started a chunk of the season due to injuries, because he didn't play well. Was his situation ideal? No. But a 9 to 6 TD INT ratio isn't good. He was awful in LA, and while he had Fisher, and while that situation was bad, he didn't do anything well.

And then, he got to Minny and was the third guy. And as the third guy he was in a great scenario and did okay. He had an okay season in today's game. Dogfish said it best - you're paying a lot of money for an expensive game manager. And that was his ceiling. I'm skeptical of people who can only do well in good situations. The closest he ever was regarding be good, sans last year, was that half season as the starter in Texas. And I did see him play, throughout his entire career. And he's never looked good. There's a certain point where if you're good enough, you can make something happen.

I am aware of his career and his career trajectory. I think everyone is because he's been a huge story for the past season/offseason.

So let me play into the point that me and Cugel have both made...

Why is it that Goff was a bust under Fisher, but played great after he leaves and is considered a franchise QB? Why is it that Foles had a good season in Philly before Kelly screwed with him, then played bad under Fisher...but ended up being the Super Bowl MVP in a system more conducive to his skills? Those two players are good, but Keenum...in very much the same scenarios as the other two...having also proved he is a better QB outside of the Fisher system...is still a bad QB? Why is that?

[CoachChaz]

Robert Mays weighing in with a point I’ve been trying to make for weeks:



https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/2018/3/13/17111780/quarterback-market-free-agency-draft-kirk-cousins?__twitter_impression=true

All excellent points and hard to argue. But the cap scenario can be aided with the moving of an Anderson and Watson, so I think we have to wait that out just a bit. I think in a perfect scenario we would have signed a McCown and groomed the next franchise guy, but Elway likely refuses to have back to back losing seasons and wanted a bridge that can contribute successfully right now. At this point all we can do is pray for smart FA additions and a draft that actually produces quality players. If that doesn't happen, then Elway's job needs to be in jeopardy.

[Poet]

So let me play into the point that me and Cugel have both made...

Why is it that Goff was a bust under Fisher, but played great after he leaves and is considered a franchise QB? Why is it that Foles had a good season in Philly before Kelly screwed with him, then played bad under Fisher...but ended up being the Super Bowl MVP in a system more conducive to his skills? Those two players are good, but Keenum...in very much the same scenarios as the other two...having also proved he is a better QB outside of the Fisher system...is still a bad QB? Why is that?

I don't think anyone would have called a slow start a bust. And let's not kid ourselves, it wasn't like Goff just got an average HC. He got a HC who was a wunderkind. It was a feast to famine type of deal.

Foles has been consistently up and down his entire career, and that can't be pinned all on the Rams. And let's not kid ourselves, either, at times this past season he looked rough, too. I don't think Foles is proven to be a good QB, or that Goff has proven to be a success or a failure.

I think going with 'those two are good so why is this guy bad' also ignores the fact that while they all had issues with the Rams, Keenum was poor well before he was a Ram.

[Buff]

Robert Mays weighing in with a point I’ve been trying to make for weeks:



https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/2018/3/13/17111780/quarterback-market-free-agency-draft-kirk-cousins?__twitter_impression=true

1.) I think the real risk in this deal is the opportunity cost of not selecting a QB of the future because we feel that Keenum can help us compete now. That strikes me as a bigger risk than spending the money and not coming away with a successful season.
2.) What's missing from Mays' analysis is that our roster is built to compete now. If we would have gone with a rookie - then you run the risk of squandering the windows of high priced/high talent guys like DT, Sanders, Miller/Harris/Wolfe.
3.) Running back might be our deepest position - I don't think it's a question mark at all with Booker's emergence and us having Anderson under contract + Deangelo Henderson.

But I agree with the overall point that there is some risk that we are overspending relative to the production we can expect.

[dogfish]

1.) I think the real risk in this deal is the opportunity cost of not selecting a QB of the future because we feel that Keenum can help us compete now. That strikes me as a bigger risk than spending the money and not coming away with a successful season.
2.) What's missing from Mays' analysis is that our roster is built to compete now. If we would have gone with a rookie - then you run the risk of squandering the windows of high priced/high talent guys like DT, Sanders, Miller/Harris/Wolfe.
3.) Running back might be our deepest position - I don't think it's a question mark at all with Booker's emergence and us having Anderson under contract + Deangelo Henderson.

But I agree with the overall point that there is some risk that we are overspending relative to the production we can expect.

when did booker emerge? dude is 3.6 YPC so far. . .

your first part is my primary concern, but we obviously still have to see how things play out. . .

[dogfish]

All excellent points and hard to argue. But the cap scenario can be aided with the moving of an Anderson and Watson, so I think we have to wait that out just a bit. I think in a perfect scenario we would have signed a McCown and groomed the next franchise guy, but Elway likely refuses to have back to back losing seasons and wanted a bridge that can contribute successfully right now. At this point all we can do is pray for smart FA additions and a draft that actually produces quality players. If that doesn't happen, then Elway's job needs to be in jeopardy.

i think this is accurate. . .

i can't lie, feeling like we need to crush the draft makes me nervous. . .

[Buff]

when did booker emerge? dude is 3.6 YPC so far. . .

your first part is my primary concern, but we obviously still have to see how things play out. . .

I guess I finally saw why people were excited about him toward the end of the year. He is more athletic than I realized - maybe "emergence" is giving him too much credit, but I feel like he's poised to take on more of the workload.

[WARHORSE]

So let me play into the point that me and Cugel have both made...

Why is it that Goff was a bust under Fisher, but played great after he leaves and is considered a franchise QB? Why is it that Foles had a good season in Philly before Kelly screwed with him, then played bad under Fisher...but ended up being the Super Bowl MVP in a system more conducive to his skills? Those two players are good, but Keenum...in very much the same scenarios as the other two...having also proved he is a better QB outside of the Fisher system...is still a bad QB? Why is that?

Or why did Peyton have such a huge drop off in play when Kubes system comes to Denver? It was because they took away Peytons greatest strength>> his mind.

They wanted him to call the play, line up and run it.

Peytons play dropped off the map. No one will ever convince me that it was his age.

So the case is made that you have to taylor your system to the QBs strengths.

Houston got a different QB last year when they changed it up for Watson.

Case is still learning. Im not anointing him.........just saying he can still have his best years ahead of him.

[VonDoom]

All excellent points and hard to argue. But the cap scenario can be aided with the moving of an Anderson and Watson, so I think we have to wait that out just a bit. I think in a perfect scenario we would have signed a McCown and groomed the next franchise guy, but Elway likely refuses to have back to back losing seasons and wanted a bridge that can contribute successfully right now. At this point all we can do is pray for smart FA additions and a draft that actually produces quality players. If that doesn't happen, then Elway's job needs to be in jeopardy.

I agree with all of this, and it’s why I wanted McCown or someone like him and a rookie QB

[G_Money]

i think this is accurate. . .

i can't lie, feeling like we need to crush the draft makes me nervous. . .

Yeah... but we need to crush this draft. This is very, very important, and not just from a QB point of view.

[VonDoom]

1.) I think the real risk in this deal is the opportunity cost of not selecting a QB of the future because we feel that Keenum can help us compete now. That strikes me as a bigger risk than spending the money and not coming away with a successful season.
2.) What's missing from Mays' analysis is that our roster is built to compete now. If we would have gone with a rookie - then you run the risk of squandering the windows of high priced/high talent guys like DT, Sanders, Miller/Harris/Wolfe.
3.) Running back might be our deepest position - I don't think it's a question mark at all with Booker's emergence and us having Anderson under contract + Deangelo Henderson.

But I agree with the overall point that there is some risk that we are overspending relative to the production we can expect.

I would question “built to win now”, though I otherwise agree with you. We have talent but we also have plenty of deficiencies and the window on our Super Bowl defense is closed. I’d rather take our lumps with a rookie and hope we got our long term guy. Or take a cheaper, high upside guy like Bridgewater. Throwing 18 million at Keenum when we have plenty of better uses for the money just seems like a desperate move

[VonDoom]

Interesting but not surprising. VJ doesn’t inspire much confidence

https://twitter.com/lesshapiro/status/973602629950390272?s=21

[CoachChaz]

Yeah... but we need to crush this draft. This is very, very important, and not just from a QB point of view.

It's a make or break year for Elway in my opinion. If he fails in FA and the draft his year, his job should be in jeopardy.

[CoachChaz]

I don't think anyone would have called a slow start a bust. And let's not kid ourselves, it wasn't like Goff just got an average HC. He got a HC who was a wunderkind. It was a feast to famine type of deal.

Foles has been consistently up and down his entire career, and that can't be pinned all on the Rams. And let's not kid ourselves, either, at times this past season he looked rough, too. I don't think Foles is proven to be a good QB, or that Goff has proven to be a success or a failure.

I think going with 'those two are good so why is this guy bad' also ignores the fact that while they all had issues with the Rams, Keenum was poor well before he was a Ram.

I guess we have a difference in opinion. As a young player on a bad Houston team, he still threw for 2200 yards, 11 TD to 8 INT at 55% in only 10 starts. Over a 16 game projection, that would have been 3500 yards 18 TD/13 INT. World class? No. "Poor"? Also a NO

[MOtorboat]

1.) I think the real risk in this deal is the opportunity cost of not selecting a QB of the future because we feel that Keenum can help us compete now. That strikes me as a bigger risk than spending the money and not coming away with a successful season.
2.) What's missing from Mays' analysis is that our roster is built to compete now. If we would have gone with a rookie - then you run the risk of squandering the windows of high priced/high talent guys like DT, Sanders, Miller/Harris/Wolfe.
3.) Running back might be our deepest position - I don't think it's a question mark at all with Booker's emergence and us having Anderson under contract + Deangelo Henderson.

But I agree with the overall point that there is some risk that we are overspending relative to the production we can expect.

I still think they have to take QB at 5.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I guess I finally saw why people were excited about him toward the end of the year. He is more athletic than I realized - maybe "emergence" is giving him too much credit, but I feel like he's poised to take on more of the workload.

I’m not as concerned about RB because this class is absolutely loaded. We can probably get a guy in the 3rd or 4th round that’s better than anyone we’ve had since Portis.

[Mike]

I’m not as concerned about RB because this class is absolutely loaded. We can probably get a guy in the 3rd or 4th round that’s better than anyone we’ve had since Portis.

I still like Henderson. He should have seen the field more last year.

[Jsteve01]

So per scott Kacsmar...." Its not so much about the volume of pressure put on a Qb but it's how he handles it im big moments...In 2017, Minnesota’s Case Keenum (58.5) and New England’s Tom Brady (54.0) led all quarterbacks in QBR under pressure with marks that rank among the top 10 in all seasons tracked since 2009. Brady’s placement may not come as a big surprise, but Keenum’s breakout season in Minnesota continues to be one of the wildest success stories since Kurt Warner went from bagging groceries to Super Bowl MVP in 1999.

[Buff]

I still think they have to take QB at 5.

This signing seems like Elway is saying "We can't gamble another 1st round pick on a QB" so soon after the Paxton miss. I don't think you can pay a QB $20 million AND take a 1st rounder that high while hoping to remain competitive.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I guess we have a difference in opinion. As a young player on a bad Houston team, he still threw for 2200 yards, 11 TD to 8 INT at 55% in only 10 starts. Over a 16 game projection, that would have been 3500 yards 18 TD/13 INT. World class? No. "Poor"? Also a NO

So 2016 Siemian-esque numbers?

[CoachChaz]

This signing seems like Elway is saying "We can't gamble another 1st round pick on a QB" so soon after the Paxton miss. I don't think you can pay a QB $20 million AND take a 1st rounder that high while hoping to remain competitive.

I would agree, so maybe we can hope that a guy Buffalo likes is still there at 5 and they give us their 1st rounders for it. Assuming the Browns or Colts dont allow pull that trigger first. That would allow us to get a guy like Rudolph and still get another impact player in the 1st round...assuming Elway has learned what impact players look like.

[MOtorboat]

This signing seems like Elway is saying "We can't gamble another 1st round pick on a QB" so soon after the Paxton miss. I don't think you can pay a QB $20 million AND take a 1st rounder that high while hoping to remain competitive.

That's a fair point on the Lynch side. On the other, they've got to find a quarterback to be consistently competitive. Maybe they could take Jackson or Rudolph in round 2 or 3 and hope to hit lightning in a bottle, or maybe draft a high pick next year at the position, too. I just don't see how this takes away the need of trying to find that long term solution, though.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I still like Henderson. He should have seen the field more last year.

I agree 100%. This draft is stacked at RB, though. There just isn’t much drop off after Barkley.

[TXBRONC]

Spoiler alert...They won't take one because I guarantee you, Elway thinks he's found his guy. This move may be Elway's undoing at this point. He's already had a crap ton of questionable moves, this may be the straw that breaks the Broncos back.

If he's found his guy why just sign him to to two years?

[Krugan]

I see us picking top 10 next year regardless, and im on board with Cousins in having concerns about this coaching staff.

So welcome to this mess Case, its not the vikings from last year, more like the Texans or Fischer rams. Good luck!

Honestly though, it would be nice if he lit it up, but if the short term deal rumors are true, then we are back to square 1 in just a couple years. Just messy...

[CoachChaz]

So 2016 Siemian-esque numbers?

Exactly. Can a whole lot more typically be expected from a first year player on a mediocre to bad team?

[CoachChaz]

If he's found his guy why just sign him to to two years?

I think because "his guy" was always only going to be a bridge. Elway likely thinks that for the cost/production package, he got the bet bridge option available. Even Cousins is only going to sign for 3 years.

[dogfish]

Yeah... but we need to crush this draft. This is very, very important, and not just from a QB point of view.

i know. . .


slim, hold me!

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I would agree, so maybe we can hope that a guy Buffalo likes is still there at 5 and they give us their 1st rounders for it. Assuming the Browns or Colts dont allow pull that trigger first. That would allow us to get a guy like Rudolph and still get another impact player in the 1st round...assuming Elway has learned what impact players look like.

So I keep seeing Rudolph’s name kicked around as our fall back QB. I don’t know him and haven’t researched him at all. Is he actually any good? If so, why isn’t he ever discussed in the same conversations with the top 5 guys? Honestly, I don’t know. I hate the thought of spending a second round pick on a JAG QB. We have JAG(s). Keenum, Brozweiler, Siemian, and Lynch are all JAGs.

[BroncoJoe]

Rudolph has a similar throwing motion as Elway.

Keep in mind, I don't watch college football outside of Colorado - just watching his highlights.

[CoachChaz]

So I keep seeing Rudolph’s name kicked around as our fall back QB. I don’t know him and haven’t researched him at all. Is he actually any good? If so, why isn’t he ever discussed in the same conversations with the top 5 guys? Honestly, I don’t know. I hate the thought of spending a second round pick on a JAG QB. We have JAG(s). Keenum, Brozweiler, Siemian, and Lynch are all JAGs.

In all honesty, I can't explain why he isn't listed among the top names more regularly, so I'll have to leave that to scouts that know more than me. But based on what I see, he's got some very bona fide skills, great leader, smart player, etc. I think the biggest knocks on him would probably be overall mobility, but then he did score like 6 rushing TD's this season. And he probably needs a little work on his intermediate accuracy.

I don't know. I've seen a ton of OSU games and I really liked him...even more than Mayfield.

[Rick]

I think Henderson may turn out to be special, if he ever gets on the field.

I think Booker will be just a guy but I think Henderson has that "it" factor.

[G_Money]

In all honesty, I can't explain why he isn't listed among the top names more regularly, so I'll have to leave that to scouts that know more than me. But based on what I see, he's got some very bona fide skills, great leader, smart player, etc. I think the biggest knocks on him would probably be overall mobility, but then he did score like 6 rushing TD's this season. And he probably needs a little work on his intermediate accuracy.

I don't know. I've seen a ton of OSU games and I really liked him...even more than Mayfield.

The knock is always that he's a system QB, like a Baylor thrower against similar Big 12 "secondaries," and that his spread offense is too spread-y. Can he read defenses? Can he take snaps from under center? How are his progressions when his guys aren't running free all the time like mustangs on the open range?

I dunno, man. But I've liked his game and his growth. He's sneaky when he needs to be, gutsy when he has to be, his arm seems to be "enough" especially on some nice deep throws in his arsenal while also being nowhere near a cannon, but what's in between his ears is most important to me.

[TXBRONC]

I think because "his guy" was always only going to be a bridge. Elway likely thinks that for the cost/production package, he got the bet bridge option available. Even Cousins is only going to sign for 3 years.

I was under the impression from Freyaka that he was looking at more like face of the franchise (i.e. 4 to 5 years down the road.) When the news broke my first thought was this is short term solution while developing a quarterback. It also gives Denver the flexibility. The can stay at five and take a quarterback but they can also take Nelson and then quarterback later, maybe Rudolph. The can also move down and like it's mentioned make a deal with the Bills .

[Timmy!]

After a night to think about it compared to the other available options, plus the amount of potential crow in this thread (hi king), I'm on board. I still don't love it, but on a 2 year deal it's a solid plan. Now fill some FA holes and crush the draft.

[Poet]

After a night to think about it compared to the other available options, plus the amount of potential crow in this thread (hi king), I'm on board. I still don't love it, but on a 2 year deal it's a solid plan. Now fill some FA holes and crush the draft.

Pray we take a QB in the first round.

[Timmy!]

Pray we take a QB in the first round.

Unless it's somewhere other than 5, I hope we don't.

[Krugan]

After a night to think about it compared to the other available options, plus the amount of potential crow in this thread (hi king), I'm on board. I still don't love it, but on a 2 year deal it's a solid plan. Now fill some FA holes and crush the draft.

I wish i could see a 2 year deal as a solid plan.

Of course the draft is yet to happen....

[CoachChaz]

The knock is always that he's a system QB, like a Baylor thrower against similar Big 12 "secondaries," and that his spread offense is too spread-y. Can he read defenses? Can he take snaps from under center? How are his progressions when his guys aren't running free all the time like mustangs on the open range?

I dunno, man. But I've liked his game and his growth. He's sneaky when he needs to be, gutsy when he has to be, his arm seems to be "enough" especially on some nice deep throws in his arsenal while also being nowhere near a cannon, but what's in between his ears is most important to me.

He is certainly the most accurate deep passer in this group. I suppose I can certianly see the concern of being a "system QB", but he did take more snaps under center this season than in the past. I'll be intrigued to hear about his pro day

[TXBRONC]

He is certainly the most accurate deep passer in this group. I suppose I can certianly see the concern of being a "system QB", but he did take more snaps under center this season than in the past. I'll be intrigued to hear about his pro day

It's been awhile but earlier on people were touting Luke Falk there should be similar for him as well. Mike Leach's quarterback always put up huge numbers but much that has to do with the system.

[Poet]

Unless it's somewhere other than 5, I hope we don't.

OoooOOoOh!

[CoachChaz]

It's been awhile but earlier on people were touting Luke Falk there should be similar for him as well. Mike Leach's quarterback always put up huge numbers but much that has to do with the system.

I think Falk is very similar to Rosen when it comes to release and technical ability...but also as it pertains to getting beat up and injured and not having the greatest pocket presence. Obviously there are things that make Rosen a much better prospect, so I see Falk as not much more than a career back-up. Think Siemian. LOL

[Hawgdriver]

I still like Henderson. He should have seen the field more last year.

I still don't like Henderson, but he should have seen the field more last year.

[NightTerror218]

I am not suprised since he is $10 mill a year cheaper then cousins and Elway has been linked to him in past. I sure as hell hope 2017 was his coming out season. But with a 2 yr contract I expect a QB at 5 now.

[slim]

Rudolph has a similar throwing motion as Elway.

Keep in mind, I don't watch college football outside of Colorado - just watching his highlights.

You have a similar posting style as Cugel.

Keep in mind, I don't really read his posts.

[NightTerror218]

Robert Mays weighing in with a point I’ve been trying to make for weeks:



https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/2018/3/13/17111780/quarterback-market-free-agency-draft-kirk-cousins?__twitter_impression=true

I expect mcgovern to be given first shot at LG which leaves a RT a need. I expect Elway to work on restructures as well to help with cap issue.

[BroncoJoe]

You have a similar posting style as Cugel.

Keep in mind, I don't really read his posts.

Take your pants off, and get back to your desk.

TIA.

[G_Money]

He is certainly the most accurate deep passer in this group. I suppose I can certianly see the concern of being a "system QB", but he did take more snaps under center this season than in the past. I'll be intrigued to hear about his pro day

Rudolph is a talented guy who is underrated for some reason and is a huge competitor - better not leave him for the Patriots, they do all right with those guys. Paxton Lynch was never a football talker, but if you listen to Rudolph he knows the game. He knows what people are doing against him and he knows what he wants to do. He should after 4 years in the same scheme, don't get me wrong - but my concern with someone like Lamar Jackson is that I'm never sure if he can execute a plan or if he's just obliterating simpler schemes and lesser talents out there like Tebow. I'm following Rudolph's pro day closely too, and I want to get much more familiar with all aspects of his game by draft day.

I dunno why, since Elway and I tend to like different QBs, but Rudolph intrigues me despite his Forrest Gump haircut.

[Buff]

Sam Bradford getting 1yr/$20 mil and $15 guaranteed from AZ makes me feel a little better about this deal.

Meanwhile the Jets are panicking. So it's good that JFE was decisive, if nothing else.

[slim]

Take your pants off, and get back to your desk.

TIA.

I would have to put them on in order to take them off.

[slim]

Sam Bradford getting 1yr/$20 mil and $15 guaranteed from AZ makes me feel a little better about this deal.

Meanwhile the Jets are panicking. So it's good that JFE was decisive, if nothing else.

Like I said earlier, $18M ain't what it used to be.

How are the Jets panicking?

[CoachChaz]

Rudolph is a talented guy who is underrated for some reason and is a huge competitor - better not leave him for the Patriots, they do all right with those guys. Paxton Lynch was never a football talker, but if you listen to Rudolph he knows the game. He knows what people are doing against him and he knows what he wants to do. He should after 4 years in the same scheme, don't get me wrong - but my concern with someone like Lamar Jackson is that I'm never sure if he can execute a plan or if he's just obliterating simpler schemes and lesser talents out there like Tebow. I'm following Rudolph's pro day closely too, and I want to get much more familiar with all aspects of his game by draft day.

I dunno why, since Elway and I tend to like different QBs, but Rudolph intrigues me despite his Forrest Gump haircut.

I think it's simple with Rudolph. If you are looking for a smart QB to work into a strong run game and defense...he's your man. I also like his confidence.

[BroncoJoe]

I just have to say I am thrilled we didn't sign Cousins.

[Buff]

Like I said earlier, $18M ain't what it used to be.

How are the Jets panicking?

Well I am assuming they are panicking - they should be if they aren't. They are the Jets and all of their QB options have dried up despite their trillion $ in cap space. Buffalo's probably gonna try to jump them in the draft order.

[Poet]

I just have to say I am thrilled we didn't sign Cousins.

I'm happy that you're happy, and I mean that.

[G_Money]

I think Henderson may turn out to be special, if he ever gets on the field.

I think Booker will be just a guy but I think Henderson has that "it" factor.

I like Henderson - I just worry as I do with all shorter backs about ball security. Booker is fine if not what I was hoping he would be so far - not a lot of flashes, but then he was never a make-his-own-way kind of back. We'll see what the backs look like when they get a hole.

I'm sure we'll take a back in this draft though. Sign me up for Kerryon Johnson or Royce Freeman and the back stable should be able to get things done.

[VonDoom]

Well I am assuming they are panicking - they should be if they aren't. They are the Jets and all of their QB options have dried up despite their trillion $ in cap space. Buffalo's probably gonna try to jump them in the draft order.

Jets are working on signing Bridgewater and likely drafting someone too

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

They’re drafting Josh Allen. Book it.

Fify

[MOtorboat]

Fify

Oh, no. It's Mayfield. And you will suffer like I will.

[wayninja]

So, Vikings unload all their current QB's and take Cousins. I really didn't see that coming.

[underrated29]

Youre both wrong. It is Rosen.

We know Elway likes QBs similar to himself. Rosen is the most closely alike (aside from Allen who is like Lynch -which we wont do again).
REmember, we heard all about how much the Broncos liked Wentz. We heard all about how much the broncos liked the cowboys QB (who is meh like I said he would be waver)
We have heard how they like Baker, we have heard how they like Allen. We have not heard a peep, a single peep about Rosen. (To be fair we have not heard one about Darnold either).

Why is this? I think because they really really like him. He is imo the best QB in this draft and like I said, I think the best since Rodgers.

[Rick]

I really wanted Cousins here.

Now that he isn't I hope I am wrong about him and that he is just an average guy and shits it up in Minn... :)

[Timmy!]

In conclusion:

Rosen best QB since rodgers, and we won't see Keenum.

Sincerely, UR.

P.S. Kapri Bibbs and Charles are the best backs we've had in decades.

[Poet]

In conclusion:

Rosen best QB since rodgers, and we won't see Keenum.

Sincerely, UR.

P.S. Kapri Bibbs and Charles are the best backs we've had in decades.

I didn't read what he wrote, but I'm going to trust you!

[Freyaka]

I was under the impression from Freyaka that he was looking at more like face of the franchise (i.e. 4 to 5 years down the road.) When the news broke my first thought was this is short term solution while developing a quarterback. It also gives Denver the flexibility. The can stay at five and take a quarterback but they can also take Nelson and then quarterback later, maybe Rudolph. The can also move down and like it's mentioned make a deal with the Bills .

My gripe with this is that the plan should be to find our long term QB. If it's not Cousins, I was always going to be fine with that (disappointed, but fine) Keenum isn't a long term solution. Elway even knows this or else he'd have offered him more than a 2 year contract.

So we're still going to have to take our QBOTF at #5. So you are paying $18 million to a placeholder, and it could amount to eventually paying $18M to a backup. Keenum is going to rob reps from the rookie (who, IMO should start year one no matter what. Let them play through their growing pains) We aren't going to win a superbowl, but we'll win enough games to be middle or back of the pack in next years draft, and we won't have enough cash to spend properly in FA to fix some of the issues like grabbing Suh to bolster the D-line or Solder to bolster the o-line.

Keenum gets paid all this money to basically fix absolutely nothing and then be gone in 2 years, and then, in two years, if we haven't played the rookie from this year yet, we could be back at drafting a QB again in two years or finding ANOTHER overpaid bridge.

I'd have much rather have seen us draft a rookie, sign someone like McCown in a mentor/backup role and roll out with the rookie. That's where I'm sitting at.

[Timmy!]

Can I get a over/under on amount of meltdowns if we don't take a QB at 5?

[underrated29]

I didn't read what he wrote, but I'm going to trust you!

Not a wise move

[underrated29]

In conclusion:

Rosen best QB since rodgers, and we won't see Keenum.

Sincerely, UR.

P.S. Kapri Bibbs and Charles are the best backs we've had in decades.



You guys really didnt like that I was right about Karpi Bibbs huh?

[wayninja]

This move makes me feel like we are not taking a QB at 5. But I'm usually wrong, so we probably will.

[underrated29]

I'd have much rather have seen us draft a rookie, sign someone like McCown in a mentor/backup role and roll out with the rookie. That's where I'm sitting at.


What makes you think we wont do this?
How much less do you think Mccown will get vs Keenum?

[Hawgdriver]

Can I get a over/under on amount of meltdowns if we don't take a QB at 5?

¼√69π²

[Timmy!]

You guys really didnt like that I was right about Karpi Bibbs huh?

About as right as, and I quote "We won't see Keenum."

[Timmy!]

¼√69π²

So I should take the over. Gotcha.

[underrated29]

About as right as, and I quote "We won't see Keenum."


I said hed make the team- Right.
I said he was better than Ronnie hillman- Right.
I said he would play- Right.
We traded him successfully for a 5th? round pick, how many of our other RBs did we try and trade and what did we get for them?
Montee Ball and Ronnie Hillman are awaiting your apology to me.

[CoachChaz]

My gripe with this is that the plan should be to find our long term QB. If it's not Cousins, I was always going to be fine with that (disappointed, but fine) Keenum isn't a long term solution. Elway even knows this or else he'd have offered him more than a 2 year contract.

So we're still going to have to take our QBOTF at #5. So you are paying $18 million to a placeholder, and it could amount to eventually paying $18M to a backup. Keenum is going to rob reps from the rookie (who, IMO should start year one no matter what. Let them play through their growing pains) We aren't going to win a superbowl, but we'll win enough games to be middle or back of the pack in next years draft, and we won't have enough cash to spend properly in FA to fix some of the issues like grabbing Suh to bolster the D-line or Solder to bolster the o-line.

Keenum gets paid all this money to basically fix absolutely nothing and then be gone in 2 years, and then, in two years, if we haven't played the rookie from this year yet, we could be back at drafting a QB again in two years or finding ANOTHER overpaid bridge.

I'd have much rather have seen us draft a rookie, sign someone like McCown in a mentor/backup role and roll out with the rookie. That's where I'm sitting at.

I think this is the biggest issue. One of two things...either Elway simply refuses to allow two years to pass without a winning record, or he is being told he cant have another losing season. Signing a Keenum allows him to try to be competitive, while still finding the long term answer. Smartest move? We'll see.

[Valar Morghulis]

Can I get a over/under on amount of meltdowns if we don't take a QB at 5?

I still want nelson at 5

[Hawgdriver]

I still want nelson at 5

Same. I'm good with a QB, too, they are importanter even if they bust out.

[Freyaka]

Can I get a over/under on amount of meltdowns if we don't take a QB at 5?

It's going to be really, really high, myself included. I'm just putting that out there ahead of time in case that changes Elway's thinking.

[slim]

Youre both wrong. It is Rosen.

We know Elway likes QBs similar to himself. Rosen is the most closely alike (aside from Allen who is like Lynch -which we wont do again).
REmember, we heard all about how much the Broncos liked Wentz. We heard all about how much the broncos liked the cowboys QB (who is meh like I said he would be waver)
We have heard how they like Baker, we have heard how they like Allen. We have not heard a peep, a single peep about Rosen. (To be fair we have not heard one about Darnold either).

Why is this? I think because they really really like him. He is imo the best QB in this draft and like I said, I think the best since Rodgers.

Of the top 4 QBs, Rosen is the least like Elway.

Man, we really need that "UR is wrong" thread.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Waste of money. Hope we draft a rookie in the first round. Hope that the rookie gets to play the season.

If we can’t get Cousins what option do we have? We can’t just throw a rookie into the fire on day 1.

[Warren]

For those high on Randolph - obviously everyone will look like the second coming on a highlight reel. But using the combine throws as a measuring stick, he does not look like he possesses an NFL caliber arm to me. Some nice deep throws but his crossing routes and outs were ugly. It was made even worse that he was partnered up with Rosen, who, while he missed some throws too, throws effortlessly, on time, and right into the receivers hands. I guess watching the two together it is hard for me to imagine a world where Randolph is the better pro QB. I'm also pretty high on Rosen so there is some bias there.

This post also comes with the obvious caveat that I don't watch Oklahoma St. so my experience with him is limited.

[underrated29]

Of the top 4 QBs, Rosen is the least like Elway.

Man, we really need that "UR is wrong" thread.


Let me see...

Pocket passer
Great footwork
Accurate
Reads a defense well
Steps up into pocket vs running, but can run
Smart
most polished of all the QBs coming out

Seems pretty similar to me.


Allen
Size and Arm
Can run

Mayfield
Can run
accurate

Darnold
Size and can run

[Poet]

If we can’t get Cousins what option do we have? We can’t just throw a rookie into the fire on day 1.

My brother, if you get the line better, and you keep the defense as is/marginally improved, you school the young pup on the go. As is tradition and custom these days.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This could indicate the Broncos want one of the quarterbacks in the draft, and are comfortable they’ll be able to draft someone in the top 5 for the future