Adam Gotsis arrested on 2013 rape charge

[G_Money]

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/03/12/adam-gotsis-rape-charge-atlanta-denver-broncos/


Denver Broncos defensive end Adam Gotsis has been arrested for allegedly raping a woman in Georgia in 2013 while he was a member of the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets.

Gotsis of Lone Tree surrendered on March 7 at the Fulton County Jail in Atlanta on a charge of strong-arm rape, according to a Atlanta police incident report.

He was released after he paid a $50,000 bond, said Tracy Flanagan, spokeswoman for the Fulton County Jail...

[GEM]

:tsk:

5 years later?

[OrangeHoof]

Carol, what is "strong-arm rape"?

[GEM]

Carol, what is "strong-arm rape"?

Why are you asking Carol? :confused:

[GEM]

Apparently strong arm rape is rape with the threat of violence, but no actual weapon.

[tomjonesrocks]

Wonderful. Gotsis seemed to make a few strides last season but was a pound-the-table/"smartest guy in the room" headscratcher pick at his draft position ... a rape charge doesn't make that pick look any smarter in hindsight.

[GEM]

Wonderful. Gotsis seemed to make a few strides last season but was a pound-the-table/"smartest guy in the room" headscratcher pick at his draft position ... a rape charge doesn't make that pick look any smarter in hindsight.

Yea, I wonder if there was any inkling about this coming out of college. Seems weird that it's just coming up 5 years later.

[NightTrainLayne]

I wonder what the statute of limitation is? They might be getting the charge in before the statute expires hoping to get a plea. Just spit-balling. Outside of that, 5 years before anyone even has a whiff of this seems strange.

[CoachChaz]

On one side, it is very common for women to come forward with claims of rape, even when they are completely legitimate. Fear of repercussions, personal embarrassment, denial, etc. are a few reasons why.

On the other hand, it can seem convenient that the kid is an NFL player now.

[aberdien]

Moral of the story is don't rape people.

[OrangeHoof]

Why are you asking Carol? :confused:

It was a running joke between Carol and BeefStew.

[WARHORSE]

If she was actually raped, then let justice prevail....not funny.


If she was not.....hang the greedy wench in a tree by rope and grappling hook wedged in her arse. That is meant to be funny.

(you have to explain to some readers nowadays)

[Simple Jaded]

If she was actually raped, then let justice prevail....not funny.


If she was not.....hang the greedy wench in a tree by rope and grappling hook wedged in her arse. That is meant to be funny.

(you have to explain to some readers nowadays)
Still isn’t funny.

[BroncoJoe]

Still isn’t funny.

Nor are false accusations that can ruin someone.

Not saying that's the case here, but you have to at least consider it.

[Simple Jaded]

This thread is why women don’t come forward.

[Simple Jaded]

Nor are false accusations that can ruin someone.

Not saying that's the case here, but you have to at least consider it.

I did consider it.

[BroncoJoe]

This thread is why women don’t come forward.

Tell that to the Duke Lacrosse team.

I'm not trying to be a dick - but it's only natural to wonder when so much time has elapsed and the accused is somewhat famous.

[BroncoJoe]

I did consider it.

Congrats?

[WARHORSE]

Still isn’t funny.


Subjective.

Find the point.

[Simple Jaded]

Hopefully he gets off, I’m more worried about wasting another 2nd round pick.

**** that gold digging ho.

[Simple Jaded]

Subjective.

Find the point.

Very subjective, apparently it’s a real knee slapper with people who already think she’s lying.

[chazoe60]

Moral of the story is don't rape people.

Or don't falsely accuse people of rape. Really we have no idea what the moral of this particular story is just yet.

[Krugan]

This thread is why women don’t come forward.

Man, its hard not to type inappropriate things here, must resist.....

[Simple Jaded]

I said I hope he gets off, I’m down with y’all.

[chazoe60]

I said I hope he gets off, I’m down with y’all.

I hope he didn't do it. The world is a better place with a crazy woman instead of another rapist. If he did do it I hope he gets his ads nailed to the wall, though I have no idea how we'll ever truly know.

[Spiritguy]

latest from Adams Attorney

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/973331024271753216

[WARHORSE]

Very subjective, apparently it’s a real knee slapper with people who already think she’s lying.

Yeah.



**** that gold digging ho.

-_-

[topscribe]

Wonderful. Gotsis seemed to make a few strides last season but was a pound-the-table/"smartest guy in the room" headscratcher pick at his draft position ... a rape charge doesn't make that pick look any smarter in hindsight.
It's a rape charge. At the moment, that is all it is. Let's remember our Presumption of Innocence . . .

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Broncos defensive end Adam Gotsis arrested last week for alleged 2013 rape in Atlanta

new information - https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/broncos/broncos-defensive-endadam-gotsis-arrested-last-week-in-2013-atlanta-rape-case-no-charges-filed-yet

[Northman]

On one side, it is very common for women to come forward with claims of rape, even when they are completely legitimate. Fear of repercussions, personal embarrassment, denial, etc. are a few reasons why.

On the other hand, it can seem convenient that the kid is an NFL player now.

That and the current climate regarding sexual assualt/rape.

[topscribe]

That and the current climate regarding sexual assualt/rape.
Yep, it's almost a buzzword these days . . .

[elsid13]

I wonder what the statute of limitation is? They might be getting the charge in before the statute expires hoping to get a plea. Just spit-balling. Outside of that, 5 years before anyone even has a whiff of this seems strange.

I heard 7 years in Georgia.

[Simple Jaded]

$10 says nothing comes of this and we can all go back to believing conspiracy theories.

[elsid13]

Without hard evidence it will be very hard to prove anything. Even if she told her friends that night.

[Simple Jaded]

Without hard evidence it will be very hard to prove anything. Even if she told her friends that night.

She would definitely would have to have done a rape test, thingy, and if that’s the case this would’ve come out 5 years ago.

[elsid13]

She would definitely would have to have done a rape test, thingy, and if that’s the case this would’ve come out 5 years ago.

I believe in some states they will take a rape kit, but won't try it over to the police unless the victim tells them to.

[Simple Jaded]

I believe in some states they will take a rape kit, but won't try it over to the police unless the victim tells them to.

She’s gonna need it to be taken seriously, even then.

[Davii]

Naw, don’t hold back, forum rules only apply to some.

I'll play your stupid game. Which post in this thread, prior to post #24, violated the forum rules and which rule(s) specifically did it violate?

[Simple Jaded]

I'll play your stupid game. Which post in this thread, prior to post #24, violated the forum rules and which rule(s) specifically did it violate?

What? Krugan wanted to put my on blast, I said have at it because rules are more like guidelines. Never said any of this threads posts violate anything but poor taste.

By the way, what rule did I break?

[Poet]

Easy boys. Let's just all agree that TS is a horrible QB and go about our business.

[Simple Jaded]

TS ~ Tyrod Taylor.

[Davii]

What? Krugan wanted to put my on blast, I said have at it because rules are more like guidelines. Never said any of this threads posts violate anything but poor taste.

By the way, what rule did I break?

None that I've noticed but you seem to be calling out unfair moderation so I was attempting to call your bluff

[Poet]

Guys, I'm not a mod. And I don't mean to be rude. Nor do I have much room to speak because I've been banned a lot. But to speak generally - this subject matter is distressing enough. Either Gotsis did something horrible, or this woman is lying. If Gotsis is guilty, there's a good chance that he might not be found guilty because women are often scared to come forward about sexual assault, and it's hard to prove rape. The flip side is that there are liars out there. Brian Banks was a promising prospect and a great human being before he pled guilty to rape after getting railroaded. He was exonerated, and his innocence is beyond doubt. With that being said, there's nothing good right now.

So, as someone who gets goofy in threads, and makes off-color jokes in threads a lot, this is one where I don't think that we should. This subject matter impacts us all negatively because we all have known someone (broadly speaking) accused falsely of something, and we've all known an abused person, most likely a woman. So, not as a faux-mod, and not as Von Kinger, but as Mike the guy going to law school to deal with some of this stuff, let's just use this thread as a time to be good to one another.

There are better places to fight over petty stuff. And I say that, again, as someone who is so guilty of that that I can't miss it. I'm trying to be the good hypocrite (the smoker who tells kids not to smoke) and not the kind that's the 'do as I say and not as I do'.

If I am out of line I apologize.

[GEM]

None that I've noticed but you seem to be calling out unfair moderation so I was attempting to call your bluff

Calling out moderation in public. Off topic.
9. Moderators decision's are NOT to be questioned or ignored within the forum or threads where the action took place. If a moderator deletes a post or thread, do not start another one with the same topic, or create a post/thread asking why “xxxx” was deleted.

Do not disregard a moderator's directive within a thread, and do not post mocking or sarcastic responses to a moderator directive.

If you have a question or concern about a specific moderator decision, you can send a PM to another mod or admin (Tned) and discuss it privately.

If you are concerned with how the site is being run or moderated, it is acceptable, and encouraged, to create a thread in the Town Hall forum and discuss the subject in 'general' and whether a change to the rules or the enforcement/interpretation of the rules needs to be considered. However, any Town Hall thread of this type should be an honest discussion about the rules, interpretation and enforcement of the rules. Do not use Town Hall threads as a means to create a backhanded or thinly veiled attack on a moderator action or protest of a moderator action.

10. Stay on topic. While moderators will allow threads to wander a bit in the natural course of the discussion, posts that are clearly off topic or are meant to intentionally derail or spam a thread will be removed.

Following a fellow poster around an hounding or spamming threads that they post in will not be tolerated.

Threads in the Lounge and Chit chat will be given more leeway when it comes to off topic or wandering posts, while there will be little leeway given in the politics, religion, football and Town Hall forums.

[topscribe]

Well . . . now that we have that out of the way . . .

Let's hope Adam Gotsis is not guilty of this, not only for the team, but for him as a person.

[OrangeHoof]

Applying details gleaned from the article Carol posted, the accuser was 25 at the time (goes to age of consent), met him at a party and then he drove her to *his* home. Now, if he drugged her or got her drunk, that's one thing. He's guilty as hell. OTOH, if she's sober and 25, you kinda have to ask what she thought was going to happen having him drive her to his house?

Unless she has pictures of her bruises, a testimony from a friend she confided to at the time, etc., she's got zero case. So why do this now? I suspect she slept with the huge guy with the cute Aussie accent and has only now figured out he's become a rich NFL star and she wants a Jameis Winston-style payout.

[aberdien]

Applying details gleaned from the article Carol posted, the accuser was 25 at the time (goes to age of consent), met him at a party and then he drove her to *his* home. Now, if he drugged her or got her drunk, that's one thing. He's guilty as hell. OTOH, if she's sober and 25, you kinda have to ask what she thought was going to happen having him drive her to his house?
She probably didn't think he was gonna rape her. Just a guess.


Unless she has pictures of her bruises, a testimony from a friend she confided to at the time, etc., she's got zero case. So why do this now? I suspect she slept with the huge guy with the cute Aussie accent and has only now figured out he's become a rich NFL star and she wants a Jameis Winston-style payout.
Coming out about your rapist/harrasser is something that a lot of people take a long time to come out about because it's such a personal and traumatizing thing. And of course they have to take the time to accept that some people will be so cynical so as to not believe them.

Obviously we don't have 100% proof of what happened and likely never will, but I tend to believe the victims in this scenario, while also understanding the small chance of false accusations.

[Poet]

Yeah, victim shaming doesn't help and leads to people taking a long time/never reporting the crimes...

[Spiritguy]

I heard 7 years in Georgia.

Here's some info on the statute in Georgia.

https://www.georgia-sex-offense-law.com/georgias-statute-of-limitations-for-sex-offenses/

[elsid13]

Here's some info on the statute in Georgia.

https://www.georgia-sex-offense-law.com/georgias-statute-of-limitations-for-sex-offenses/

Prosecutions for rape must be commenced within 15 years

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Special unit to decide whether to file rape charges against Broncos’ defensive end Adam Gotsis

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/03/13/adam-gotsis-rape-accusation-investigation/

[topscribe]

Coming out about your rapist/harrasser is something that a lot of people take a long time to come out about because it's such a personal and traumatizing thing. And of course they have to take the time to accept that some people will be so cynical so as to not believe them.

Obviously we don't have 100% proof of what happened and likely never will, but I tend to believe the victims in this scenario, while also understanding the small chance of false accusations.


Yeah, victim shaming doesn't help and leads to people taking a long time/never reporting the crimes...
This can be a particularly damaging stance to take, so damaging as to ruin a life. We must understand
that the presumption of innocence goes to the accused, not the accuser. To assume that the accused is
guilty (and the use of "victim" to describe the accuser comes very close to that) puts a heavy, unfair
onus on the accused.

When we use the term "victim shaming," are we going overboard? They do have to consider the motives
of the accuser. For instance, in one recent case, the accuser was recorded receiving a bribe of some
$200,000 to make the accusation. In another case, the accuser's mortgage was paid off. What is behind
the accusation? Is it actually hurt and damage to the accuser's life, or is greed or revenge involved? This
is the very reason for presumption of innocence and ought to be strictly adhered to. Otherwise, we may
be creating a victim we didn't intend to create.

[Poet]

This can be a particularly damaging stance to take, so damaging as to ruin a life. We must understand
that the presumption of innocence goes to the accused, not the accuser. To assume that the accused is
guilty (and the use of "victim" to describe the accuser comes very close to that) puts a heavy, unfair
onus on the accused.

When we use the term "victim shaming," are we going overboard? They do have to consider the motives
of the accuser. For instance, in one recent case, the accuser was recorded receiving a bribe of some
$200,000 to make the accusation. In another case, the accuser's mortgage was paid off. What is behind
the accusation? Is it actually hurt and damage to the accuser's life, or is greed or revenge involved? This
is the very reason for presumption of innocence and ought to be strictly adhered to. Otherwise, we may
be creating a victim we didn't intend to create.

Top, I spent two years working at a law firm that dealt strictly with wrongful convictions and rightful exonerations. On top of that I'm pursuing a career in prosecution/defense/criminal work. I hold the notion of presumption of innocence near and dear to my heart. I testified in front of the State Senate regarding policy issues on our work. I wrote documentation that was presented in front of the conviction integrity unit. I take my experiences trying to get innocent people out of prison with me every day.

With that being said, the public generally doesn't believe in the presumption of innocence. The notion is more that 'oh, well, if they didn't do this they probably did that,' or 'well, they got arrested for some reason'. This bothers me deeply as it is opposite of what the values of the criminal justice system are supposed to be. However, when we do, socially speaking, believe in the presumption of innocence, with great vigor I might add, is when it comes to sexual assault.

When I refer to victim shaming, go back to the part where I spoke about how it makes people less likely to report sexual assault. We just don't believe the victims. We hold on to these antiquated beliefs that if a woman goes home with a man then it is what it is. Look at the post that you high-fived from Hoof. "What did she expect?" Well, as Abe said, if she was raped, she didn't expect to be raped. We often ask these women "what were they wearing," "was she drinking," "was she trying to get his money," first when in any other crime we ask about what the evidence is.

I believe in trials. I believe in due process. But I also believe in statistics and studies from well sourced materials. The conclusions time and time again say that you have people wait years to come with the accusations because of how we treat these victims. That is regardless of whether or not in this case she is or is not a victim. But, to victim shame, is to attack someone who makes those accusations, and that's what the comments do, good intentions or not.

Of course motives have to be assumed, but let's not act like rich and powerful people don't do this with frequency because, well, they can. In this case, it looks like he wasn't rich then. But, he certainly was a man on the rise and privileged.

Regarding the last bit of presumption of innocence - to believe that you must be found guilty in the court of law is not to believe that you should degrade victims in general. And this isn't an attack upon you at all. But, it is a reminder that if this woman is a liar, someone who isn't lying is being accused of the same things -fraud, being a gold-digger, being a slut, being ashamed she gave it up that easy, revenge, et al- and because of that, those comments should be called at the beginning of each and every stage.

[topscribe]

Top, I spent two years working at a law firm that dealt strictly with wrongful convictions and rightful exonerations. On top of that I'm pursuing a career in prosecution/defense/criminal work. I hold the notion of presumption of innocence near and dear to my heart. I testified in front of the State Senate regarding policy issues on our work. I wrote documentation that was presented in front of the conviction integrity unit. I take my experiences trying to get innocent people out of prison with me every day.

With that being said, the public generally doesn't believe in the presumption of innocence. The notion is more that 'oh, well, if they didn't do this they probably did that,' or 'well, they got arrested for some reason'. This bothers me deeply as it is opposite of what the values of the criminal justice system are supposed to be. However, when we do, socially speaking, believe in the presumption of innocence, with great vigor I might add, is when it comes to sexual assault.

When I refer to victim shaming, go back to the part where I spoke about how it makes people less likely to report sexual assault. We just don't believe the victims. We hold on to these antiquated beliefs that if a woman goes home with a man then it is what it is. Look at the post that you high-fived from Hoof. "What did she expect?" Well, as Abe said, if she was raped, she didn't expect to be raped. We often ask these women "what were they wearing," "was she drinking," "was she trying to get his money," first when in any other crime we ask about what the evidence is.

I believe in trials. I believe in due process. But I also believe in statistics and studies from well sourced materials. The conclusions time and time again say that you have people wait years to come with the accusations because of how we treat these victims. That is regardless of whether or not in this case she is or is not a victim. But, to victim shame, is to attack someone who makes those accusations, and that's what the comments do, good intentions or not.

Of course motives have to be assumed, but let's not act like rich and powerful people don't do this with frequency because, well, they can. In this case, it looks like he wasn't rich then. But, he certainly was a man on the rise and privileged.

Regarding the last bit of presumption of innocence - to believe that you must be found guilty in the court of law is not to believe that you should degrade victims in general. And this isn't an attack upon you at all. But, it is a reminder that if this woman is a liar, someone who isn't lying is being accused of the same things -fraud, being a gold-digger, being a slut, being ashamed she gave it up that easy, revenge, et al- and because of that, those comments should be called at the beginning of each and every stage.
Then you should understand the ramifications of calling an accuser a "victim" and using the term
"victim shaming" in reference to an accuser whose accused has not been found or pled guilty. I'm
not talking legalities here. I'm talking about real people. Real lives. This is a devastating charge to
the accused, so I believe more care should be used in the terms used to refer to the respective
persons until the case is resolved. Meanwhile, both parties deem the same respect, IMO.

[Poet]

Then you should understand the ramifications of calling an accuser a "victim" and using the term
"victim shaming" in reference to an accuser whose accused has not been found or pled guilty. I'm
not talking legalities here. I'm talking about real people. Real lives. This is a devastating charge to
the accused, so I believe more care should be used in the terms used to refer to the respective
persons until the case is resolved. Meanwhile, both parties deem the same respect, IMO.

You don't have to tell me I should understand something I do understand, Top. Victim shaming, as I pointed out, is applied to every person making the accusation, that's the point. You can't generally speak to an individual who 'should have known better' in one instance and not apply it to every other case at that stage because that's what society does.

I'm not talking legalities. I'm talking actual lives. Actual lives that I worked to represent and fix. The language used in the thread is used to berate every single person who accuses someone of sexual assault, and the false accusations on this subject matter are quite scant. I'm working within the reality of the situation that we live in. And don't forget that this is a crime that's almost never easy to prove - plenty of people have walked away freely when they were guilty. So, with the respect that you are owed as my friend, I think you're protesting too much. Gotsis isn't being denied due process, and plenty of people are going to presume him innocent automatically for a variety of reasons, both good and bad.

[OrangeHoof]

Everytime there is a he-said, she-said accusation against an athlete, you run into two sides with major credibility issues.

Athletes are inclined to believe they can get away with things they shouldn't because they see it happen so often with other athletes. One of them is easy access to sexually active women. Unless you've been one, you have no idea how often women throw themselves at men like that.

The other major credibility issue is women who had a one night stand with an athlete, decided it wasn't worth it, then tries to get her revenge by spreading falsehoods and accusations. Often, there's a pricetag that comes with it.

So who do you believe? The jock who takes sex as the privilege of being a famous athlete or the gold-digger who is looking for any possible way to get some free money or prestige from bedding a famous jock? Neither are highly believable people.

One thing we do know about rapists is that most of them are not one-timers. They rape over and over again, particularly if they are not caught. So let's see now if more women accuse Gotsis or if this girl is the only one.

Rape *is* a terrible thing. For every accuser, there may be three or more who decide not to come out. But the Duke Lacrosse case tells us there are also plenty of women willing to bat their eyes and cry a bunch of tears and say whatever lies they have to in an attempt to blackmail others, knowing that most will never have their names exposed while publicly dragging the accused's name through the mud. I'm just a little sensitive to that side of the "presumption of innocence" too.

Here's a New York Times article about a falsely accused athlete that gives an even-handed account about the overall problem:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/05/us/usc-rape-case-dropped-video-evidence.html

[Poet]

This is a good starting point. https://www.vox.com/2015/6/1/8687479/lie-rape-statistics

[topscribe]

You don't have to tell me I should understand something I do understand, Top. Victim shaming, as I pointed out, is applied to every person making the accusation, that's the point. You can't generally speak to an individual who 'should have known better' in one instance and not apply it to every other case at that stage because that's what society does.

I'm not talking legalities. I'm talking actual lives. Actual lives that I worked to represent and fix. The language used in the thread is used to berate every single person who accuses someone of sexual assault, and the false accusations on this subject matter are quite scant. I'm working within the reality of the situation that we live in. And don't forget that this is a crime that's almost never easy to prove - plenty of people have walked away freely when they were guilty. So, with the respect that you are owed as my friend, I think you're protesting too much. Gotsis isn't being denied due process, and plenty of people are going to presume him innocent automatically for a variety of reasons, both good and bad.
Okay, well, maybe I'm misunderstanding you . . .

[Poet]

Okay, well, maybe I'm misunderstanding you . . .

I think we're not far apart at all. Sometimes the internet just makes it harder to get the little nuances across. We're all good Topscribe!

[Simple Jaded]

Applying details gleaned from the article Carol posted, the accuser was 25 at the time (goes to age of consent), met him at a party and then he drove her to *his* home. Now, if he drugged her or got her drunk, that's one thing. He's guilty as hell. OTOH, if she's sober and 25, you kinda have to ask what she thought was going to happen having him drive her to his house?

Unless she has pictures of her bruises, a testimony from a friend she confided to at the time, etc., she's got zero case. So why do this now? I suspect she slept with the huge guy with the cute Aussie accent and has only now figured out he's become a rich NFL star and she wants a Jameis Winston-style payout.

Maybe she was raped AND she’s looking for a Jameis Winston-style payout?

Maybe she was raped and just hopes to ruin his life.

I know one thing, she didn’t sleep Gotsis in ‘13 thinking she’d cash in someday, cause the only one that thought Gotsis would be a high draft pick was Bill Kollar.

[topscribe]

Maybe she was raped AND she’s looking for a Jameis Winston-style payout?

Maybe she was raped and just hopes to ruin his life.

I know one thing, she didn’t sleep Gotsis in ‘13 thinking she’d cash in someday, cause the only one that thought Gotsis would be a high draft pick was Bill Kollar.
Well, whether or not he is guilty, she'd better have credible witnesses or tapes. Otherwise, he very likely walks.

[Simple Jaded]

Well, whether or not he is guilty, she'd better have credible witnesses or tapes. Otherwise, he very likely walks.

Good, **** that gold digging whore.