Ron Leary needs to be back at left guard

[Jsteve01]

I read that our Genius Coaching staff is trying decide whether to move Ronald Leary back to his best natural position. Wow great to catch on to that after the season guys. We threw a young rookie who was obviously going to go through ups and downs out next to Max Garcia instead of our Pro Bowl left guard. It was one of the dumbest things that the staff did last year. Oh and while we're at it let's move Watson to Right Guard so you can play in a phone booth draft and draft or
r sign another guard draft or sign a solid right tackle and call it good for this offseason.

[Cugel]

Broncos Insider Troy Renk asked VJ about this and later said on the radio to Mark Schlereth that "of course this needs to happen."

Everybody on the face of the earth knows this shit. Hopefully VJ realizes his mistake and is just refusing publicly to announce any of their plans out of normal coach-speak.

If they kept Leary at RG that would be a more than usually stupid move that I will assume (for now) won't happen.

The reason last year they had Leary move to RG is because Max Garcia "wasn't comfortable" playing RG. So, they asked Leary to move to a new position! To accommodate Max freakin' Garcia - who doesn't even deserve a roster spot this season!

Why his inability should be a major consideration this season is an un-answered question.

But, in the absence of watching Leary line up at RG in the first pre-season game or at least training camp I will assume for the purposes of sanity that particular experiment won't be repeated.

[Cugel]

If they kept Leary at RG this June would be an early indication that VJ has really learned nothing from last season's debacle and will soon be unemployed. Hopefully that doesn't happen though. They tried it only because of a need to have Garcia in the lineup at RG.

It didn't work out. Everybody and his sister has been talking this off-season as though it was a foregone conclusion that they would move Leary back to LG and find a new RG not named "Max Garcia."

They even moved Connor McGovern to G last year in the later season. He didn't completely suck at it either so the obvious move if they don't sign somebody at RG would be to move McGovern to RG and Leary to left.

[CoachChaz]

If Leary is at RG this season, it should only be because we drafted Nelson or Hernandez.

[Freyaka]

If they kept Leary at RG this June would be an early indication that VJ has really learned nothing from last season's debacle and will soon be unemployed. Hopefully that doesn't happen though. They tried it only because of a need to have Garcia in the lineup at RG.

It didn't work out. Everybody and his sister has been talking this off-season as though it was a foregone conclusion that they would move Leary back to LG and find a new RG not named "Max Garcia."

They even moved Connor McGovern to G last year in the later season. He didn't completely suck at it either so the obvious move if they don't sign somebody at RG would be to move McGovern to RG and Leary to left.

McGovern actually played really well IMO. Which is why I think if we move Leary back to LG, McG to RG, we're a RT away from fixing the line. People want to act like this line is just awful, we are actually a lot closer than most think.

[Jsteve01]

If they kept Leary at RG this June would be an early indication that VJ has really learned nothing from last season's debacle and will soon be unemployed. Hopefully that doesn't happen though. They tried it only because of a need to have Garcia in the lineup at RG.

It didn't work out. Everybody and his sister has been talking this off-season as though it was a foregone conclusion that they would move Leary back to LG and find a new RG not named "Max Garcia."

They even moved Connor McGovern to G last year in the later season. He didn't completely suck at it either so the obvious move if they don't sign somebody at RG would be to move McGovern to RG and Leary to left.

McGovern actually played really well IMO. Which is why I think if we move Leary back to LG, McG to RG, we're a RT away from fixing the line. People want to act like this line is just awful, we are actually a lot closer than most think.

I really would like to see us draft somebody that can play multiple positions well. Nelson is obvious, but Johns talking now about trading back and obviously that hinges on what we do with Kirk Cousins. Nelson Has line positional flexibility Rankin has line positional flexibility I think ragnow and Isaiah Wynn also have positional flexibility.

[Poet]

We should sign Pugh and that would allow for Leary to go wherever. Mostly because Pugh can go wherever.

[Jsteve01]

We should sign Pugh and that would allow for Leary to go wherever. Mostly because Pugh can go wherever.i like him but he will cost too much. Ragnow, wynn, rankin and daniels offer positional flexibilty on the cheap and one or more of them should be available in the third round.

[Jsteve01]

We should sign Pugh and that would allow for Leary to go wherever. Mostly because Pugh can go wherever. but I know you and I are looking at this from opposite ends of the spectrum. Because I want cousins or Keenum and all your projections will be based on drafting Rosen.

[Poet]

but I know you and I are looking at this from opposite ends of the spectrum. Because I want cousins or Keenum and all your projections will be based on drafting Rosen.

I'm not opposed to getting Kirk Cousins.

[Freyaka]

I'm not opposed to getting Kirk Cousins.

It's going to be really weird in 2018. Because chances are, in 2018, you and I will be in agreement about QB's.

[topscribe]

If Leary is at RG this season, it should only be because we drafted Nelson or Hernandez.
Nelson said he is equally comfortable at right or left guard. So if he joins the Broncos, Leary will likely be back at LG.

[Cugel]

Nelson said he is equally comfortable at right or left guard. So if he joins the Broncos, Leary will likely be back at LG.

But, that wouldn't solve the big problem on the line, RT (or LT if they move Bolles over to RT as some people suggest he needs to do). He might turn out to be a better RT than LT. After his first season he was not great. Ramcyzk was better for his team, but at RT.

Remember that neither of those guys was considered an elite LT prospect, which is why both were available in the draft in the 20's for the Broncos to draft in the first place. Most teams looked at these guys and said "Meh."

And after his first season you'd have to say "Meh" about Bolles. He wasn't terrible, considering he was a rookie, but if you remember the almost immediate development of Ryan Clady back in the day it was totally different.

Back then it was in his first training camp that Shanahan stated publicly that Clady was doing great and easily exceeding expectations. And he quickly became a pro-bowl player who in the first two years of his career had some critics saying he was almost if not quite as good as Joe Thomas. They were on a comparable upward track early in their career, although Clady got hurt and ended his career while Thomas just kept on rolling towards the Hall of Fame.

Bolles is just nothing remotely like that and it doesn't appear he's about to suddenly become a Pro-Bowl LT in his second year. Possibly, but nothing so far indicates that.

[Jsteve01]

Nelson said he is equally comfortable at right or left guard. So if he joins the Broncos, Leary will likely be back at LG.

But, that wouldn't solve the big problem on the line, RT (or LT if they move Bolles over to RT as some people suggest he needs to do). He might turn out to be a better RT than LT. After his first season he was not great. Ramcyzk was better for his team, but at RT.

Remember that neither of those guys was considered an elite LT prospect, which is why both were available in the draft in the 20's for the Broncos to draft in the first place. Most teams looked at these guys and said "Meh."

And after his first season you'd have to say "Meh" about Bolles. He wasn't terrible, considering he was a rookie, but if you remember the almost immediate development of Ryan Clady back in the day it was totally different.

Back then it was in his first training camp that Shanahan stated publicly that Clady was doing great and easily exceeding expectations. And he quickly became a pro-bowl player who in the first two years of his career had some critics saying he was almost if not quite as good as Joe Thomas. They were on a comparable upward track early in their career, although Clady got hurt and ended his career while Thomas just kept on rolling towards the Hall of Fame.

Bolles is just nothing remotely like that and it doesn't appear he's about to suddenly become a Pro-Bowl LT in his second year. Possibly, but nothing so far indicates that.

Listen I don't know that it's necessarily fair to make the comparison between Garrett and Ryan. Barring injury Ryan would have gone down as one of the greatest tackles to ever play the game. But the guy just couldn't stay healthy after the stupid basketball injury. I think that the other two big name offensive tackles out played Garrett last year. But I also believe that they were paired with much better players on their respective offensive lines. Sticking a rookie offensive tackle with limited play history next to Max Garcia was not the right thing to do. First of all we know Max Garcia should not be starting on any line and putting him next to your rookie left tackle is like hanging a lead weight around the kids neck

[Cugel]

Listen I don't know that it's necessarily fair to make the comparison between Garrett and Ryan. Barring injury Ryan would have gone down as one of the greatest tackles to ever play the game. But the guy just couldn't stay healthy after the stupid basketball injury. I think that the other two big name offensive tackles out played Garrett last year. But I also believe that they were paired with much better players on their respective offensive lines. Sticking a rookie offensive tackle with limited play history next to Max Garcia was not the right thing to do. First of all we know Max Garcia CIA should be starting on any line and a plug-in man next year starting rookie left tackle is like hanging a lead weight around the kids neck

My point is that none of the T's in the draft last year were close to elite T prospects, which is why both were available when the Broncos drafted in the 20's. That has never happened before in the last 15 years of the draft.

The T class was considered terribly poor with only a couple of first round Ts and none of those elite. Mike McGlinchy is a top 15 prospect this year for instance and the way T's normally creep up the board before the draft they normally go in the top 10.

Orlando Brown of OK is also probably a top 20 T.

Bolles just wasn't a top prospect last year and he hasn't played like one. And the Clady comparison is to remind Broncos fans what it looks like if a T is going to become an elite T. It looks like Clady's career after his first year, not like a guy who whiffs a ton and leads the league in penalties.

We don't see that with Bolles, which is why so many speculate they could move him to RT rather than just leave him at LT where he might ultimately be a mediocre LT.

If they can get Cousins, they could trade back a bit in the first round and still land McGlinchy at #10 or so.

[Jsteve01]

I will agree with you on all of that. I'll also say that this draft is a polar opposite when it comes to offensive line Talent. You've got a generational talent in Nelson at guard and a ton of first-round gradable Talent at the tackle position. Plus the next two players at guard have the potential to be pro bowlers. this is the one thing that would make it appealing to me to trade back with Buffalo and potentially pick up one of the top two or three tackles and a Hernandez or Isaiah Wynn

[Simple Jaded]

Nelson and Hernandez play LG, let’s hope they have two rookie starters on the OL and you land someone like Crosby to play RT ... do you want two rookies on the right side? Both of them playing a new position? Or would you rather split them up for their rookie season? Do you want another rookie starting at LT?

Crosby, McGlinchey and Brown should be RT’s.

[Jsteve01]

Nelson and Hernandez play LG, let’s hope they have two rookie starters on the OL and you land someone like Crosby to play RT ... do you want two rookies on the right side? Both of them playing a new position? Or would you rather split them up for their rookie season? Do you want another rookie starting at LT?

Crosby, McGlinchey and Brown should be RT’s. i get your point there

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I still don’t think we’re in dire straights for a Guard. McGovern played well at RG in Leary’s absence last year. Garcia is trash but moving Leary back to LG and McGovern to RG while drafting or looking to FA to fix RT should fix a lot of interior problems. Elway has already said we’re keeping Watson (God help us) and maybe he could be a Guard prospect if we get a RT and move McGovern to C if Paradis leaves.

Nelson is a beast, but not at 5, that’s just too much for a Guard, even a perennial all pro. They just don’t make enough impact on a regular basis to go that high.

[topscribe]

I still don’t think we’re in dire straights for a Guard. McGovern played well at RG in Leary’s absence last year. Garcia is trash but moving Leary back to LG and McGovern to RG while drafting or looking to FA to fix RT should fix a lot of interior problems. Elway has already said we’re keeping Watson (God help us) and maybe he could be a Guard prospect if we get a RT and move McGovern to C if Paradis leaves.

Nelson is a beast, but not at 5, that’s just too much for a Guard, even a perennial all pro. They just don’t make enough impact on a regular basis to go that high.
I would love to have Nelson, to the point where I have to be careful not to drool on my keyboard.
But when I look at all the quality available, I kind of back off him a little. For instance, Hernandez
will be available a little later, maybe in the 2nd round, and he is a stud. Back to the 1st round,
can you imagine Von, Ray, and Chubb all rushing the passer at the same time? Or what if
Saquon is still available? I feel like a starving kid in an ice cream shop.

[Cugel]

I will agree with you on all of that. I'll also say that this draft is a polar opposite when it comes to offensive line Talent. You've got a generational talent in Nelson at guard and a ton of first-round gradable Talent at the tackle position. Plus the next two players at guard have the potential to be pro bowlers. this is the one thing that would make it appealing to me to trade back with Buffalo and potentially pick up one of the top two or three tackles and a Hernandez or Isaiah Wynn

Well, if the reports are true that Cousins has narrowed down his options to the Jets and Vikings, that's not going to happen. The Broncos need a QB and unless they can sign Cousins or unless Elway is convinced that Case Keenum is the long term answer, they are drafting a QB at #5.

[Simple Jaded]

I would love to have Nelson, to the point where I have to be careful not to drool on my keyboard.
But when I look at all the quality available, I kind of back off him a little. For instance, Hernandez
will be available a little later, maybe in the 2nd round, and he is a stud. Back to the 1st round,
can you imagine Von, Ray, and Chubb all rushing the passer at the same time? Or what if
Saquon is still available? I feel like a starving kid in an ice cream shop.

Hernandez has short arms, Top, it’s science.

[topscribe]

Hernandez has short arms, Top, it’s science.
Bad for tackle, good for guard and center . . .

[Poet]

Bad for tackle, good for guard and center . . .

It's actually found to be statistically meaningless for tackles, which is good news, although not pertinent here!

[topscribe]

It's actually found to be statistically meaningless for tackles, which is good news, although not pertinent here!
Okay, good for center (that's a fact), meaningless for tackles and guards. :)

[Poet]

Okay, good for center (that's a fact), meaningless for tackles and guards. :)

No one tells Topper anything about arms without going through me!

[Simple Jaded]

#BlogThangs

[Ziggy]

Nelson and Hernandez play LG, let’s hope they have two rookie starters on the OL and you land someone like Crosby to play RT ... do you want two rookies on the right side? Both of them playing a new position? Or would you rather split them up for their rookie season? Do you want another rookie starting at LT?

Crosby, McGlinchey and Brown should be RT’s.

If the Broncos draft Nelson, he's not treated as a rookie. The guy is hall of fame material from jump street. You either put him at left guard or left tackle and consider that position locked up for the next decade or so.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

If the Broncos draft Nelson, he's not treated as a rookie. The guy is hall of fame material from jump street. You either put him at left guard or left tackle and consider that position locked up for the next decade or so.

Calm down Ziggy. Calling him a HOFer before he’s even drafted is a little much. Lots of things can happen. Andrew Luck isn’t a HOFer and may never be. He projects as a top guard prospect. That’s it. I know you like the dude but relax.

[Poet]

They said the same thing about Cooper...

[topscribe]

Calm down Ziggy. Calling him a HOFer before he’s even drafted is a little much. Lots of things can happen. Andrew Luck isn’t a HOFer and may never be. He projects as a top guard prospect. That’s it. I know you like the dude but relax.
Zig said Nelson is HOF material. I believe so, too. It is indeed too early to call him an HOFer,
but he has that potential more than any other guard probably in a handful of years. I think
that's what Zig meant, and I agree with him.

[Simple Jaded]

If the Broncos draft Nelson, he's not treated as a rookie. The guy is hall of fame material from jump street. You either put him at left guard or left tackle and consider that position locked up for the next decade or so.

LT— Bolles
LG— Nelson
C— McGovern
RG— Leary
RT— Ja’Waun James

[topscribe]

LT— Bolles
LG— Nelson
C— McGovern
RG— Leary
RT— Ja’Waun James
I like that (except that I hope the Broncos keep Paradis, and Nelson would best go to RG because
he is comfortable on either side, while Leary is better at LG). For once, the Broncos will have a
formidable front.

How much better would even Siemian have been with a solid front? As Jeff Legwold said (http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/30871/broncos-need-to-protect-their-investments-at-quarterback-far-better):


After watching the Broncos’ issues in pass protection send their quarterbacks to the trainers’ room over
the last four years, including Peyton Manning, it’s a fair assessment to say the development of players such
as Trevor Siemian and Paxton Lynch has been impacted by the fact the Broncos haven’t found a consistent
combination to play better in the offensive line.

I'm resigned to the probability that the Broncos are not going to get Kirk Cousins. And it just may
be a proverbial blessing in disguise because I believe that Case Keenum, whom they are more likely
to get, is better than popularly conceived, and putting him behind Quentin Nelson would be a more
dramatic upgrade than Cousins without Nelson, partly because the difference Nelson and Leary --
in the latter's more natural spot -- would make in the running game. (All IMO.)

[Nomad]

That's if the Colts or Browns don't take Nelson.

I heard the Browns traded for Tyrod Taylor. If I were the Browns..... take Barkely with the #1, and Nelson with the #4, unless Colts are smart and grab Nelson with #3.

[topscribe]

That's if the Colts or Browns don't take Nelson.

I heard the Browns traded for Tyrod Taylor. If I were the Browns..... take Barkely with the #1, and Nelson with the #4, unless Colts are smart and grab Nelson with #3.
That is a problem. In which case, I don't think then that the Broncos would be hurting with Hernandez . . .

[Jsteve01]

That's if the Colts or Browns don't take Nelson.

I heard the Browns traded for Tyrod Taylor. If I were the Browns..... take Barkely with the #1, and Nelson with the #4, unless Colts are smart and grab Nelson with #3.
That is a problem. In which case, I don't think then that the Broncos would be hurting with Hernandez . . .

Where do you draft him though? They have to move back into the first I would think to be able to pick up Hernandez after the offseason that he's had.

[topscribe]

Where do you draft him though? They have to move back into the first I would think to be able to pick up Hernandez after the offseason that he's had.
It is an anomaly that Nelson himself would be picked in the first round. Guards don't normally
make the first day. Nelson happens to be what many consider not only the top guard in the
draft, but the top athlete in all the draft. From what I have seen, Hernandez is the third rated
offensive guard (but not by much) and seems projected early in the second round, which
would be ideal for the Broncos. Hernandez, however, is projected as an immediate starter.

[CoachChaz]

Where do you draft him though? They have to move back into the first I would think to be able to pick up Hernandez after the offseason that he's had.

Nelson going top 5 greatly impacts how early Hernandez, Wynn and Price go after that. Especially since the guard group is way better than the tackle group

[Simple Jaded]

The Browns OL is loaded, Joel Bitonio and FA Guard from Bengals last year, if anything they need an eventual replacement for Thomas.

[Simple Jaded]

I like that (except that I hope the Broncos keep Paradis, and Nelson would best go to RG because
he is comfortable on either side, while Leary is better at LG). For once, the Broncos will have a
formidable front.

How much better would even Siemian have been with a solid front? As Jeff Legwold said (http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/30871/broncos-need-to-protect-their-investments-at-quarterback-far-better):



I'm resigned to the probability that the Broncos are not going to get Kirk Cousins. And it just may
be a proverbial blessing in disguise because I believe that Case Keenum, whom they are more likely
to get, is better than popularly conceived, and putting him behind Quentin Nelson would be a more
dramatic upgrade than Cousins without Nelson, partly because the difference Nelson and Leary --
in the latter's more natural spot -- would make in the running game. (All IMO.)

Oh they’ll keep Paradis, yay!

My sources tell me they’re not in on Barf Cousins or Gag Keenum. They gonna pay Keenum more than they wanted to pay Brent coming off a SB? I wanna believe Elway is smarter than that.

Nelson, to my knowledge, has never played RG.

[topscribe]

Oh they’ll keep Paradis, yay!

My sources tell me they’re not in on Barf Cousins or Gag Keenum. They gonna pay Keenum more than they wanted to pay Brent coming off a SB? I wanna believe Elway is smarter than that.

Nelson, to my knowledge, has never played RG.
Actually, somehow, I can't see either holding up the Lombardi. That would be the only reason to throw a pile of money at one of them.

I may be in a very small minority, but I wouldn't be against bringing back Brock for a bridge while grooming a Mayfield or a Rosen . . .

[Simple Jaded]

I may be in a very small minority, but I wouldn't be against bringing back Brock for a bridge while grooming a Mayfield or a Rosen . . .

You and me both, Top, but I think there might be more than you think.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I think you get the Guard for the right side...even at 5...and move Leary back over. Bolles at RT until he gets some more experience and either sign or draft a LT in round 2.

Fixing OL must be the priority.

[Simple Jaded]

I think you get the Guard for the right side...even at 5...and move Leary back over. Bolles at RT until he gets some more experience and either sign or draft a LT in round 2.

Fixing OL must be the priority.
The T class is pretty thin.

[Poet]

Without a QB the offensive line means nothing. If you don't get the QB now you'll end up looking for one at a worst drafting spot the next year.

But, on the other hand, there are some real gems in this class at other positions.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Without a QB the offensive line means nothing. If you don't get the QB now you'll end up looking for one at a worst drafting spot the next year.

But, on the other hand, there are some real gems in this class at other positions.

And I can say without Oline, QB means nothing. Without Pas Rush, CBs mean nothing. Without cover guys, Dline means nothing. See what I did?

I have more faith in Nelson that I do in any of these QBs. Additionally, Denver appeared competent early on when the Oline was pretty healthy...even with our steaming pile at QB.

Gimme the Guard and start running through and over people.

[Poet]

And I can say without Oline, QB means nothing. Without Pas Rush, CBs mean nothing. Without cover guys, Dline means nothing. See what I did?

I have more faith in Nelson that I do in any of these QBs. Additionally, Denver appeared competent early on when the Oline was pretty healthy...even with our steaming pile at QB.

Gimme the Guard and start running through and over people.

Unfortunately, we've seen far too many QB's do well with bad lines for that to be true. So, no, you cannot correct state that. We take that guard, right? And let's say he's a god. Sure, that's great. Then let's say that Keenum does okay and we're in the postseason. This isn't a SB contending team. So we then go to the draft in the 20's still looking for QBotF. How do we get one? How do we build up a team strong enough without a stud QB to win a SB?

This entire offseason has been the most shortsighted thinking I've seen from our team.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Unfortunately, we've seen far too many QB's do well with bad lines for that to be true. So, no, you cannot correct state that. We take that guard, right? And let's say he's a god. Sure, that's great. Then let's say that Keenum does okay and we're in the postseason. This isn't a SB contending team. So we then go to the draft in the 20's still looking for QBotF. How do we get one? How do we build up a team strong enough without a stud QB to win a SB?

This entire offseason has been the most shortsighted thinking I've seen from our team.

OK...list em. I don't know any/many QBs with terrible olines who have done a damn thing. And I'm not a believe cuz you said so type, so who are these teams?

What I have seen are some solid QBs look very good when protected well like Brad Johnson and Alex Smith. I've also seen legends struggle when they are under pressure. Brady comes to mind, but based on some recent discussions here I know who already agree with that.

I also know that there have been some ridiculously talented QBs who never had a chance because they were drafted by teams who couldn't protect them...ala Carr and a certain Kentucky legend.

[Poet]

OK...list em. I don't know any/many QBs with terrible olines who have done a damn thing. And I'm not a believe cuz you said so type, so who are these teams?

What I have seen are some solid QBs look very good when protected well like Brad Johnson and Alex Smith. I've also seen legends struggle when they are under pressure. Brady comes to mind, but based on some recent discussions here I know who already agree with that.

I also know that there have been some ridiculously talented QBs who never had a chance because they were drafted by teams who couldn't protect them...ala Carr and a certain Kentucky legend.

Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan. Those are off the top of my head, and all within the past five years or so. Oh, Russel Wilson and Ben Roethlisberger.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

None had really bad olines. Rodgers line was very good the 1 year his team did anything of note. What have they really done since? His stats come from passing 50+times per game...and they never win anything. Brady has never had a terrible line. Please don't give Peyton any credit for that SB win. It's embarrassing. I'm the biggest Manning fan you'll ever talk to and I even acknowledge that him not being allowed to throw is what won us a title. That and a top 3 all time defense. Our D scored more than he did. Matt Ryan line WAS bad. Then it got good...and they started winning for real. Russell wilson had a very solid line until they traded the cornerstone for Graham...and the wheels have been falling off ever since.

Big Ben..I'll give you that one. Pitt olines have sucked til about 2 years ago.

[Poet]

The Cowboys, Titans, and Raiders all have recently had great lines. The Raiders vaunted line meant nothing when Carr wasn't around. Mariota has a great line, plays underwhelmingly, and isn't a contender. Dak has that Dallas line, and how are they doing in the postseason? None of them are contenders. To your point, Rivers has been at times great, and he's not done much when he's had atrocious lines. There isn't a perfect answer. But, I can tell you this: Rodgers for his first three or four seasons did not have a great line and had to scramble more than he wanted. Wilson's never had a great line and had to make miracles work. Manning's lines in Indy pretty much died (sans him masking the weaknesses therein, much like he did here before he spiraled down the tube) when Tarik Glenn went out. Matt Ryan's line were shaky for the first half of his career. Big Ben's lines were weak after Faneca left, for the timeline, and recently, only in the past three seasons or so have they improved.

Brady did well two SB's ago when his left tackle was a third stringer and he was missing a guard. So, no, you can't tell me that a great QB can't overcome it. I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. There's your list, there's your timeline for each of them. Stick around and post more, we ******* miss you.

[Poet]

None had really bad olines. Rodgers line was very good the 1 year his team did anything of note. What have they really done since? His stats come from passing 50+times per game...and they never win anything. Brady has never had a terrible line. Please don't give Peyton any credit for that SB win. It's embarrassing. I'm the biggest Manning fan you'll ever talk to and I even acknowledge that him not being allowed to throw is what won us a title. That and a top 3 all time defense. Our D scored more than he did. Matt Ryan line WAS bad. Then it got good...and they started winning for real. Russell wilson had a very solid line until they traded the cornerstone for Graham...and the wheels have been falling off ever since.

Big Ben..I'll give you that one. Pitt olines have sucked til about 2 years ago.

Rodgers did not have a good line in the early years of his career, sir. Since then he's consistently been one of the best passers in the game, while passing at a high volume. They don't win anything? Well, shit, who said you had to choose? And to be fair, they're had a couple runs since then, so take the winning comment and then apply that to all the teams with great lines who don't win anything. As far as PFM, who said that I was giving him credit for the SB win? I was referring to the years here when he was passing well, not the tail end. None of those lines were any good, but his magic at the LOS and diagnosing the play masked a lot of issues. Regarding Brady, yeah, he's played well when his lines were poor.

Matt Ryan still did very well as a player with bad line. That's what you asked for you.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Rodgers did not have a good line in the early years of his career, sir. Since then he's consistently been one of the best passers in the game, while passing at a high volume. They don't win anything? Well, shit, who said you had to choose? And to be fair, they're had a couple runs since then, so take the winning comment and then apply that to all the teams with great lines who don't win anything. As far as PFM, who said that I was giving him credit for the SB win? I was referring to the years here when he was passing well, not the tail end. None of those lines were any good, but his magic at the LOS and diagnosing the play masked a lot of issues. Regarding Brady, yeah, he's played well when his lines were poor.

Matt Ryan still did very well as a player with bad line. That's what you asked for you.

I'm thinking we disagree on the term terrible/bad oline. And of course I feel we need both a legit QB AND a dominant oline. I just believe if the oline doesn't come first, the QB can be ruined. Rodgers has had some very bad lines, but they weren't terrible when they won the SB with him. The became terrible and they showed an inability to run the ball and depended solely on AR. He's a bad man...but should have more rings based on his talent. His defenses have been up and down, but I believe the oline's inability to give him the time he needs AND run block is ruining what should be a legendary career as far as championships are concerned.

Manning and Brady never had bad lines aside from SB50. Some were better than others, but they were all at least competent enough to run block and give the passers enough time to get rid of the rock. And I actually think Dak is a bad example as he is average at best and the oline allowed him to hide with a good run game. We stole 1 piece of that line and they had 1 injury I believe. Suddenly, he has to pass the ball under some pressure. IMO, the oline is what will make or break his career.

Denver Oline isn't even competent right now. I don't see a Rodgers, Manning or even Roethlisberger in this draft. If I did...I'd likely change my outlook. I can't help but remember the potential I saw vs Dallas when we blocked incredibly well. Siemian actually looked pretty damn good the first few weeks. An illusion? Maybe. Or maybe he is a good QB IF he isn't running for his life. I like Keenum as an upgrade who can avoid a rush and make good decisions. He's not THE answer, but he is going to do well for us until we solidify the Oline and most importantly...figure out who Paxton Lynch really is. I'm not giving up on that one yet. We knew he'd be a project going in and he has never been given a real chance to develop with the right protection.

Move Leary back where he belongs. Get 2 Olinemen and a RB who can move the chains. Be the Jets w/ Sanchez. Be the 2000 Ravens. Be the 2016 Cowboys for Christ's sake. Slow the games down. Play great D and push the pile. Give us a chance to be in games while we still have 2 stud WRs and a talented defense.

[Poet]

I appreciate your thoughtfulness, SA! You sticking around?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I appreciate your thoughtfulness, SA! You sticking around?

Probably until soccer season kicks off


no pun intended

[SmilinAssasSin27]

what's up with no new members since 2011? Just about everyone I see posting is an old head. I can dig it, but damn. No fresh blood?

[Jsteve01]

what's up with no new members since 2011? Just about everyone I see posting is an old head. I can dig it, but damn. No fresh blood?

I knew you'd be here around the draft.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I knew you'd be here around the draft.

Always.

[Nomad]

Smilin27 - kicking ass

King - zero

:D

[Poet]

Goodbye.

[Simple Jaded]

Goodbye.

Arm length.

It’s science.

[Freyaka]

what's up with no new members since 2011? Just about everyone I see posting is an old head. I can dig it, but damn. No fresh blood?

We don't want new blood, the last new blood I can think of was Lynch12 and he ended up being Yash...

[topscribe]

We don't want new blood, the last new blood I can think of was Lynch12 and he ended up being Yash...
At least I bring some youth to the board . . .

[Simple Jaded]

We just had a new dude that’s a Case Keenum stalker ... so there’s that.

I think he was expecting a huge celebration up in here, he was disappointed.

#YouKnowHowWeDoIt

[Freyaka]

At least I bring some youth to the board . . .

Eww... Millennials...

[Freyaka]

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/20/denver-broncos-news-connor-mcgovern-may-start-at-guard-2018/

Looks like the team may be heading in this direction.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Liar season