Foles or Cousins?

[WARHORSE]

Which would you rather be under center next year in Denver?

[WARHORSE]

Foles has stronger arm........

[BroncoWave]

Cousins, easy. He is a known commodity who has performed over multiple years. Foles was likely a product of Doug Pedersen's offense.

Foles is gonna be way too damn expensive compared to what he has actually accomplished.

[ShaneFalco]

VJ destroys both.


Hire Eagles offensive coordinator as head coach.

[Shazam!]

Draft Draft Draft please.

[DenBronx]

Cousins or bust.

[Rick]

Foles has flashed and has talent but has 0 consistency. Pass.

[Rick]

While this is a what have you done for me lately league, let us not forget in 7 regular season games Foles has a 56% completion for a 79 rating.

Would we be getting the super bowl Foles or the Foles that has been a mixture of fantastic and mediocre his entire career? My guess...the latter. Solid back up and bridge starter, nothing more.

[Freyaka]

Draft Draft Draft please.

I find it highly unlikely we draft a first round QB. I see Barkley or Fitzpatrick going at pick #5.

[Freyaka]

Honestly, Foles was cold as ice last night. BUT, while I would love to see him here, he's going to cost 3 arms and 4 legs to get to Denver. Let someone else pay the high stock of draft picks for him.

Cousins may not happen either as Adam Schefter is reporting that the Redskins still plan on franchise tagging Cousins despite trading for Alex Smith because they want to force teams to trade for Cousins.

[Hawgdriver]

Doesn't matter with this staff. Sorry I'm emo about it. Just have no faith they can develop or properly deploy a QB.

[Hawgdriver]

Cousins for that reason.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Honestly, Foles was cold as ice last night. BUT, while I would love to see him here, he's going to cost 3 arms and 4 legs to get to Denver. Let someone else pay the high stock of draft picks for him.

Cousins may not happen either as Adam Schefter is reporting that the Redskins still plan on franchise tagging Cousins despite trading for Alex Smith because they want to force teams to trade for Cousins.

Biggest gamble in history if they do. If no team bites, It will ruin the Redskins as they’ll have 1 QB making 23 mil and the other making 34 mil. They’ll have to completely blow up their roster to get under the cap. At that point, the only team I see being in position for Cousins is Buffalo. They have 2 1st round picks (in the 20’s) and may be willing to pull the trigger. Huge risk for Washington, though.

[MasterShake]

I fear Foles just went on a Flacco type run and would revert to the middle of the pack once he gets a big contract. Plus that Eagles O-Line spoiled their QBs.

[dogfish]

captain kirk, darnold, or mayfield. . .

[wayninja]

Why do people expect Foles to be more expensive than Cousins who is expected to command the richest contract in NFL history?

[BroncoWave]

Cousins for that reason.

Exactly. The only chance we have with this staff is to bring in an accomplished QB they hopefully can't ruin.

[BroncoWave]

Why do people expect Foles to be more expensive than Cousins who is expected to command the richest contract in NFL history?

Who expects that? I think people are saying his relative cost/production will be more than cousins.

[Freyaka]

Why do people expect Foles to be more expensive than Cousins who is expected to command the richest contract in NFL history?

Because he just outplayed Tom Brady and won Superbowl MVP on one of the best performances in recent superbowl history. Someone is going to pay him. He's about to be $100 million richer.

[BroncoWave]

Because he just outplayed Tom Brady and won Superbowl MVP on one of the best performances in recent superbowl history. Someone is going to pay him. He's about to be $100 million richer.

He won't get a bigger contract than cousins though.

[slim]

Exactly. The only chance we have with this staff is to bring in an accomplished QB they hopefully can't ruin.

Maybe.

But what if Cousins is good enough to at least partially over come Clown Shoes' ineptitude, such that we manage to bang out 7-8 wins next year? Thus saving the coaches job for another year?

That would be no bueno.

[BroncoWave]

Maybe.

But what if Cousins is good enough to at least partially over come Clown Shoes' ineptitude, such that we manage to bang out 7-8 wins next year? Thus saving the coaches job for another year?

That would be no bueno.

It's a chance I'd be willing to take. Maybe he's awesome and gets us to the playoffs.

[chazoe60]

Doesn't matter with this staff. Sorry I'm emo about it. Just have no faith they can develop or properly deploy a QB.


Cousins for that reason.

Then I hope we draft a QB and sign a journeyman. I have no faith in this HC ever being competent so I'm taking the long view of looking past next season. Just let VJ flail in the first 4 or 5 games like he is bound to do then move on in 2019 to a staff with an actual NFL calibur HC at the helm with a talented young QB to build around.

[Freyaka]

He won't get a bigger contract than cousins though.

Bigger? Maybe not, close to? yes. And he's going to cost at least 1-2 first round draft picks to acquire off the eagles. That's the part that makes it unattractive.

[Freyaka]

Maybe.

But what if Cousins is good enough to at least partially over come Clown Shoes' ineptitude, such that we manage to bang out 7-8 wins next year? Thus saving the coaches job for another year?

That would be no bueno.

Jay Grueden IMO is as bad or worse than VJ and he didn't hold Kirk back this season. We'll see.

[BroncoWave]

Then I hope we draft a QB and sign a journeyman. I have no faith in this HC ever being competent so I'm taking the long view of looking past next season. Just let VJ flail in the first 4 or 5 games like he is bound to do then move on in 2019 to a staff with an actual NFL calibur HC at the helm with a talented young QB to build around.

If this is the perspective Elway has, though, why bring back VJ at all? I'm assuming he still thinks VJ could work here, so I don't see why he'd hamstring him by limiting the roster.

[Northman]

Foles ive always thought kind of got a raw deal his first go around in Philly. But even in his return he has had far more talent to work with when it comes to the Eagles than Cousins has had in Wash the last two years despite still putting up numbers. Would i take a chance on Foles if he was the only option left for us outside of a draft pick? Yes. But at this point i would still want Cousins because he seems to be able to make those around him play better and i have yet to see Foles do that.

[Freyaka]

If this is the perspective Elway has, though, why bring back VJ at all? I'm assuming he still thinks VJ could work here, so I don't see why he'd hamstring him by limiting the roster.

I think we were shoehorned into it. We have gained a reputation of being "coach killers" so we've gotta rough it out, let him prove he can't do it and then fire him. If we fired him in the first year, we'd have a hard time finding a replacement.

[BroncoJoe]

Foles just became Cousins worst nightmare.

[BroncoWave]

Foles ive always thought kind of got a raw deal his first go around in Philly. But even in his return he has had far more talent to work with when it comes to the Eagles than Cousins has had in Wash the last two years despite still putting up numbers. Would i take a chance on Foles if he was the only option left for us outside of a draft pick? Yes. But at this point i would still want Cousins because he seems to be able to make those around him play better and i have yet to see Foles do that.

Yeah this is why I don't want Foles. He needs to be in the right system to thrive, and this ain't that.

[slim]

Jay Grueden IMO is as bad or worse than VJ and he didn't hold Kirk back this season. We'll see.

Your statement is nonsensical.

[Dreadnought]

Yeah this is why I don't want Foles. He needs to be in the right system to thrive, and this ain't that.

I'm not sure our "system", such as it is, will allow any QB to thrive. To me the lessons of yesterday's SB were these

1) Nick Foles is a "franchise QB", or;
2) You really don't need a "franchise QB" to win in this league...if you have a solid roster and above all a top tier offensive line that is able to generate both a good running game and solid pass protection.

Now, I've liked Foles for a while. His 2013 season was almost otherworldly good. Then again, his subsequent record wasn't all that. Or maybe he got disregarded because of his 3rd round draft status, I'm really not sure. He sure played like the real deal yesterday, on the biggest stage he could be on. At a minimum he made himself a wealthy young man yesterday and good for him.

Would he succeed under VJ? Probably not. Nor will Cousins. Or pretty much anyone else I'm afraid

[BroncoWave]

I'm not sure our "system", such as it is, will allow any QB to thrive. To me the lessons of yesterday's SB were these

1) Nick Foles is a "franchise QB", or;
2) You really don't need a "franchise QB" to win in this league...if you have a solid roster and above all a top tier offensive line that is able to generate both a good running game and solid pass protection.

Now, I've liked Foles for a while. His 2013 season was almost otherworldly good. Then again, his subsequent record wasn't all that. Or maybe he got disregarded because of his 3rd round draft status, I'm really not sure. He sure played like the real deal yesterday, on the biggest stage he could be on. At a minimum he made himself a wealthy young man yesterday and good for him.

Would he succeed under VJ? Probably not. Nor will Cousins. Or pretty much anyone else I'm afraid

I think a good enough QB could overcome VJ. I mean, Manning drug a Fox-led team to the super bowl.

I'm not saying cousins is Manning, but the point is a good enough QB can mask poor coaching. Is cousins good enough? Maybe, maybe not. But I'm willing to take the chance.

[wayninja]

*dragged

I point out not to annoy, but to allay any more PED suspicions of Manning.

[Dreadnought]

I think a good enough QB could overcome VJ. I mean, Manning drug a Fox-led team to the super bowl.

I'm not saying cousins is Manning, but the point is a good enough QB can mask poor coaching. Is cousins good enough? Maybe, maybe not. But I'm willing to take the chance.

John Fox is a pretty good coach. Arguably not quite good enough,
but Fox >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VJ

[Magnificent Seven]

Foles! A 2nd string QB brought Eagles to Super Bowl and beat the patriots! Kirk Cousins couldn't!

[chazoe60]

If this is the perspective Elway has, though, why bring back VJ at all? I'm assuming he still thinks VJ could work here, so I don't see why he'd hamstring him by limiting the roster.

Obviously this isn't how Elway is looking at it, it's how I personally hope it goes.

[BroncoWave]

Obviously this isn't how Elway is looking at it, it's how I personally hope it goes.

Fair enough.

[Cugel]

Honestly, Foles was cold as ice last night. BUT, while I would love to see him here, he's going to cost 3 arms and 4 legs to get to Denver. Let someone else pay the high stock of draft picks for him.

Cousins may not happen either as Adam Schefter is reporting that the Redskins still plan on franchise tagging Cousins despite trading for Alex Smith because they want to force teams to trade for Cousins.

This is playing chicken with a guy who has called their bluff 2 straight seasons. If they do this, Cousins does NOT have to play along and negotiate a long term deal with whatever team the Redskins want to trade him to. He can just sit back and collect his $34.6m.

And if he won't negotiate a long term deal because he wants to become a FA and choose his own team, then no team will trade with the Redskins, because they would only be acquiring Cousins for 1 season for $34.6m.

So, if any deal gets done, it will be ONLY because Cousins decided to stop fighting with the Redskins and let them trade him to a team he will pre-select and pre-negotiate a deal with. And then that team will have to acquire his rights by trade with the Redskins.

But, right now he has ZERO incentive to do any of that. He can force their hand if he wants to. And they have no power to force him to do anything. So, the price they get for him from some other team cannot be anything like what they are hoping and angling for - a second round pick or higher.

Can you imagine John Elway offering a high round draft pick for Cousins under this scenario? Me either. He might not be willing to offer any kind of pick at all. :coffee:

[WARHORSE]

Foles ive always thought kind of got a raw deal his first go around in Philly. But even in his return he has had far more talent to work with when it comes to the Eagles than Cousins has had in Wash the last two years despite still putting up numbers. Would i take a chance on Foles if he was the only option left for us outside of a draft pick? Yes. But at this point i would still want Cousins because he seems to be able to make those around him play better and i have yet to see Foles do that.


And lets not forget Gannon. It seems like its starting to click for Foles and Cousins. In the right system and with talent and proper coaching, each can continue to get better.

[Northman]

Foles! A 2nd string QB brought Eagles to Super Bowl and beat the patriots! Kirk Cousins couldn't!

Foles had a much better team and also didnt have to carry the team an entire year. Dont get me wrong, Foles is decent but lets keep it in proper perspective here.

[OrangeHoof]

Case Keenum would cost less than Cousins or Foles and be just as effective. I don't want to pay Manning money for any of them.

[Northman]

I dont think Keenum is going anywhere.

[Northman]

And i would rather go with the other two who have proven a lot more than Keenum at this stage.

[dogfish]

i kinda like foles, but he's always been up and down. . . i wouldn't want to assume that he's "arrived" now just because of a stretch of a couple good games, regardless of how big the stage. . . especially with as much RPO stuff as they were running. . . it's a pretty gimmicky offense-- good luck if you want to make that your base O long term. . . also, he's not bringing doug pederson with him to call the plays. . . cousins is a more consistent and effective pocket passer, with a better track record of results. . . you will have to pay him more, but you won't have to give up trade compensation to get him (no effing way they tag him). . . if we're going after a vet to reload, rather than a rookie to rebuild, then captain kirk is the guy i want. . .

[WARHORSE]

What I like the most about Cousins is how competitive he is. People like that can't stand losing and will kick and scratch to get better.


For me, Cousins is the right man to take. He wont cost draft picks and he will be worth the money for a number of reasons the least of which is true draft flexibility.

By signing Cousins, the five slot in the draft all of a sudden becomes a very large chip in our basket. If we are forced to use the pick on a QB, we get a player that for all stats and history will not help us next year.

With QB off the table, all of a sudden our top five picks along with a probable compensatory 3 that can now be traded.......we look like a two-gun gunfighter with armor piercing rounds.

[Jsteve01]

I'm not sure our "system", such as it is, will allow any QB to thrive. To me the lessons of yesterday's SB were these

1) Nick Foles is a "franchise QB", or;
2) You really don't need a "franchise QB" to win in this league...if you have a solid roster and above all a top tier offensive line that is able to generate both a good running game and solid pass protection.

Now, I've liked Foles for a while. His 2013 season was almost otherworldly good. Then again, his subsequent record wasn't all that. Or maybe he got disregarded because of his 3rd round draft status, I'm really not sure. He sure played like the real deal yesterday, on the biggest stage he could be on. At a minimum he made himself a wealthy young man yesterday and good for him.

Would he succeed under VJ? Probably not. Nor will Cousins. Or pretty much anyone else I'm afraid
Listen Jared Goff went from a bust last year to a top 5 quarterback in the league this year and the one thing that changed was well to getting rid of Fisher. What's common ground between Foles and goff? They both had terrible Seasons under Jeff Fisher. So my point is that I don't necessarily see the Superbowl and the improve play from Foles as an outlier but I go back to the season he had prior to going to St Louis and say I believe that a more mature and healthy Foles showed us what he really is this season

[Poet]

Cousins. He's been more consistent. And he's probably more athletic, which we could use. Foles had a great year and then after that he wasn't much. But, he also had a HC give up on him and then he went to the then putrid Rams. They're both gambles. Foles arguably has the higher upside.

I don't want to give up picks. I don't. Honestly, the more I look at the situation, the more I think that we should just blow up the roster and start anew.

[Jsteve01]

You know I'm not a huge fan of giving up pics either, but you are what you are. Elway has made the biggest hits during his career in free agency and with mid to late round picks. So if you're not giving up the farm like a first-round pick for the guy then I don't think that should play a huge Factor and whether we choose to go after Foles or not. The thing that stinks right now is having talk to all my buddies back in Philly where I live for a couple years went won't be healthy until the beginning of the season so there is a huge question mark as to whether the Eagles will even entertain trading Foles

[dogfish]

What's common ground between Foles and goff? They both had terrible Seasons under Jeff Fisher.

ironically, the rams ALSO had case keenum. . .


*spookythememusic*


so, the real takeaway here is. . . . . we should bring back austin davis??

[Davii]

I don't think the Skins will tag Cousins, in fact, they'd be foolish to do so. Any trade of Kirk would require he agree to a new contract, no team is trading for a one year rental @34 million. So, he already signed the tag to get traded (I don't think you can rescind a tag once it's signed), refuses to sign new deals, and the Skins are stuck paying him 34 million to back up Smith.

Would he? Don't know, but that's a huge gamble.

[Jsteve01]

The problem with this dumb idea for the Redskins is that if they decide to play dirty poker he holds all the cards. He's going to determine who he plays for and if he plays. I don't see him choosing to sit. He's not that type of guy. But it's just a dumb move on the Skins part. You know sometimes you just cut bait, I think they did that with the Smith trade doing anything more would just be stupid

[Freyaka]

I don't think the Skins will tag Cousins, in fact, they'd be foolish to do so. Any trade of Kirk would require he agree to a new contract, no team is trading for a one year rental @34 million. So, he already signed the tag to get traded (I don't think you can rescind a tag once it's signed), refuses to sign new deals, and the Skins are stuck paying him 34 million to back up Smith.

Would he? Don't know, but that's a huge gamble.

Yes you can (See Josh Norman Vs the Panthers)

*edit* correction, once it's signed it cannot be rescinded, you are correct. Only prior to it being signed.

[wayninja]

I don't think the Skins will tag Cousins, in fact, they'd be foolish to do so. Any trade of Kirk would require he agree to a new contract, no team is trading for a one year rental @34 million. So, he already signed the tag to get traded (I don't think you can rescind a tag once it's signed), refuses to sign new deals, and the Skins are stuck paying him 34 million to back up Smith.

Would he? Don't know, but that's a huge gamble.

There's no way they will do this, the risk/reward ratio is way too high. The best outcome is they get a few picks for him (which wash will likely get a compensatory even without tagging him). The worst outcome is they completely throw a huge chunk of their roster into a rotting wasteland of cap space desolation by having 2 franchise QB's they are stuck with consuming the rotting husk of their never proud empire.

[topscribe]

Why do people expect Foles to be more expensive than Cousins who is expected to command the richest contract in NFL history?
Of course, Foles' stock went up with his last two games. But I don't think he's not going to
command elite salary. His most recent performances are impressive, but he still has the
inconsistent track record. I'm thinking somewhere around $18M? (To think that was Peyton
Manning money just three or four years ago.)

BTW, glad you changed your avatar. This one should carry a better image. Your other one
made you seem confused all the time. lol

[dogfish]

BTW, glad you changed your avatar. This one should carry a better image. Your other one
made you seem confused all the time. lol

plus, it'll look super intimidating when he shows up to bust people. . . no more smokin' cigarettes in the bathrooms around here, boys. . .

[wayninja]

Your other one
made you seem confused all the time. lol

My posting style will shatter any illusions of that.

[wayninja]

plus, it'll look super intimidating when he shows up to bust people. . . no more smokin' cigarettes in the bathrooms around here, boys. . .
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/67872816/im-a-volunteer-sheriffs-deputy-on-the-weekends-and-you-cannot-screw-around-there.jpg

[topscribe]

plus, it'll look super intimidating when he shows up to bust people. . . no more smokin' cigarettes in the bathrooms around here, boys. . .
Or behind the school. And fighting in the hall will draw staying after school . . .

[FanInAZ]

Why do people expect Foles to be more expensive than Cousins who is expected to command the richest contract in NFL history?

Because they assume that everyone is going to be a dumb as the Ravines by believing the QB is the only reason teams win SBs and pay him accordingly. Name 1 other team that has made that mistake?

[WARHORSE]

I think these guys are just about the same guy.......but what I like about Cousins is his competitiveness. Much more competitive than Foles imo.

[Simple Jaded]

Bridgewater and Rosen/Allen.

[topscribe]

I think these guys are just about the same guy.......but what I like about Cousins is his competitiveness. Much more competitive than Foles imo.
I can't agree with that. If you look at the games against Minn and NE, how can one get more
competitive than that? We've said we want a QB who can put the team on his shoulders when
the situation requires it, and that's what Foles did. Yes, his past inconsistencies comprise an
item of concern, but I don't think competitiveness is by any means a weakness of his.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Bridgewater and Rosen/Allen.

Has Bridgewater ever had a 300 yard game?

[Poet]

Foles wanted to retire and he was in his prime. This was a challenge to him that he took, and I respect it. But Cousins is playing to validate his entire life. Football is just a game to Foles - one that he loves, though.

You put a knife in their hands and Cousins walks away.

[Simple Jaded]

Has Bridgewater ever had a 300 yard game?

Good question.

http://www.nfl.com/player/teddybridgewater/2543465/gamelogs?season=2015

Looks like two in ‘15, with a 296.

http://www.nfl.com/player/teddybridgewater/2543465/gamelogs?season=2014

Three more in ‘14.

[Jsteve01]

I like teddy a lot. He was hands down the best qb in football while at louisville. And his detractors picked him apart. He is just a smart solid leader.

[Northman]

Meh, pass on Teddy. No thanks.

[chazoe60]

I loved Teddy coming out of college. With the injury though and the uncertainty about him right now he's the type of guy that if we got him we would still draft a QB at 5.

Attainable QBs that let us draft a developmental QB late
Cousins
Foles

QBs that allow us to wait til 2nd Possibly 3rd round for a QB prospect
Keenum

QBs that still force us to draft a QB at 5
Teddy
AJ Mccarron

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I like teddy a lot. He was hands down the best qb in football while at louisville. And his detractors picked him apart. He is just a smart solid leader.

Don’t get me wrong, I was really high on Teddy before the draft. He’s an accurate thrower and has a high football iq. I’m just not sure he’s as talented as I thought he was. I think he might be limited in the throws he can make. I’m also concerned by not flashing as a playmaker so far (the modest #’s). However some, or all, of this could be due to playing with AP.

[dogfish]

given that teddy hasn't done shit in the NFL, and is coming off a devastating injury, how much would you pay him?

i wouldn't be interested for much more than vet minimum, and i have a feeling he's still going to command more than that due to simple supply and demand at the position. . . JMO obviously, but if we don't get cousins or keenum, the rest of the guys out there are all mike glennons. . . there's no point paying much for any of them-- you're still going to have to draft a QB high, and you're still likely to be starting that kid by mid-season. . . if all we really want is a guy to keep the seat warm for a month or two, just roll with effing trevor and be done with it. . . i personally have very little interest in any reclamation projects, or other team's backups. . . i have zero faith in our coaching staff. . . we need to give those guys the best odds possible, not expect miracles out of them. . . to me, that means either cousins, or one of the top rookies. . .

[Cugel]

Well, there is no way Teddy Bridgewater is available unless the Vikings get someone better, like Kirk Cousins. If they landed him, then yes, they let Bradford, Keenum and Cousins walk. The talk from Adam Schefter is that the Vikings want to find a way to keep both Keenum and Bridgewater.

That makes sense since they can't be sure Bridgewater is ever going to recover from knee injury and Keenum didn't play all that well against the Eagles, but it would cost a ridiculous amount of $.

They would have to re-sign Bridgewater to a long term deal and franchise Keenum. Doesn't make sense to me though.

Picking either Keenum OR Bridgewater rather than giving $31m a year to Cousins might make more sense for them though.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

If we draft a QB at #5, he needs to start from day one. A one year rental journeyman QB buys us jack shit. The rookie needs to take his lumps early and get to be solid starter material by the 2019 season. No more screwing around with band aids at QB. Cousins, the #5 pick, or swag Kelly if he shows out early should start this year. If we cop out with another journeyman because it’s “safe” I’m going to really start questioning this organization’s motives.

[Jsteve01]

But honestly over the past two seasons a solid journeyman game manager would have given us the opportunity to stay in games

[Freyaka]

But honestly over the past two seasons a solid journeyman game manager would have given us the opportunity to stay in games

That was what TS was supposed to be...That fell flat on its face. Screw this safe conservative crap. We win now, we win often and we do it on the arms of a franchise QB. That is either a QB at #5 who starts from day one on, or Cousins...Just say no to this game manager bs...It works once a decade and we aren't that team.

[dogfish]

ugh. . . PFT is reporting that we could make a run at AJ mccarron if he becomes an unrestricted free agent. . .

[Freyaka]

ugh. . . PFT is reporting that we could make a run at AJ mccarron if he becomes an unrestricted free agent. . .

yuuuuck...

[BroncoJoe]

ugh. . . PFT is reporting that we could make a run at AJ mccarron if he becomes an unrestricted free agent. . .

This tells me (if true) that they're targeting a QB in the draft. AJ would be a placeholder unless he shocks the world.

God help us if they are interested because they still have faith in Lynch. Or maybe Kelly has shown them something?

[dogfish]

This tells me (if true) that they're targeting a QB in the draft.

i would certainly hope that's the case, and that it's one of the top QB prospects. . . you never know this time of year, though. . .

[slim]

ugh. . . PFT is reporting that we could make a run at AJ mccarron if he becomes an unrestricted free agent. . .

Why would that bother you?

[dogfish]

Why would that bother you?

because mike glennon. . .

i don't think AJ is anything special at this point in his career, but somebody could still make him a fairly substantial offer based on the current QB market. . . also, i would have some trepidation about the possibility that the FO might view him as a starter--especially if they do give him a decent sized contract. . . now, if he's coming here on a two-year, $15 million deal as a bridge starter for a highly drafted rook, then fine, i guess. . . but i don't want him at $15+ mil/year for multiple years, and as a presumptive starter, with only a mid-round developmental guy and lynch/kelly behind him. . . i want darnold/mayfield/rosen, or captain kirk. . . not a fan of investing any significant assets into the likes of tyrod taylor, teddy B, AJ, or any of the other likely to be available vets in hopes of making them into an effective starter. . . really, get cousins, or draft a kid high and throw him in the fire. . . if he can't handle that pressure, you probably got the wrong guy anyway. . .

[Rick]

No source this time a year (or any time of year really) is worth taking at their word. This includes Cugel's sources as amazing as those sources are.

"Sources" make interesting listening/reading and make interesting conversation, but I wouldn't take what any of them have to say with a grain of salt.

[Magnificent Seven]

Just get Nick Foles. Draft a top OT in the 1st round. We are good!

Foles can throw, run, and catch. Offensive coordinator can create a new name for Foles to catch the ball. (Mile High Special!) :salute:

[Rick]

Again, which Foles are we talking about?

The 1 that had 1 awesome year under Kelly and 1 great playoff game, or the other Foles.

[BroncoJoe]

Again, which Foles are we talking about?

The 1 that had 1 awesome year under Kelly and 1 great playoff game, or the other Foles.

Or, we could talk about the choices based on being a Superbowl MVP, or someone who hasn't been to the playoffs yet?

[Timmy!]

Ummm.....Foles is under contract with Philly, and with Wentz coming back from surgery, why the hell would Philly give him up? It would take a full on ruhtard offer to pry him away. Not happening. Neeeeext.

[BroncoJoe]

Or, we could talk about the choices based on being a Superbowl MVP, or someone who hasn't been to the playoffs yet?

EDIT: He did play in two playoff games. One in 2012 (he was an excellent 3-10) The other in 2015 after a really good 9-7 season resulting in a wildcard playoff game.

[Poet]

Or, we could talk about the choices based on being a Superbowl MVP, or someone who hasn't been to the playoffs yet?

One was a fluke who crashed and burned. The other was a self-made man who proved everyone wrong, repeatedly.

Now, Foles got hosed by Chip Kelly, I don't disagree there. And, he was never given any room to make mistakes and still keep his job. So, to the Foles supporters, I get it. I think I've been too harsh on him.

I think both are risky and I am now in favor of a full blown rebuild. If not, and we 'have' to pick one, Cousins would be my route.

[Rick]

Or, we could talk about the choices based on being a Superbowl MVP, or someone who hasn't been to the playoffs yet?

Are we really going to hang his hat on 1 superbowl game? Compared to a guy who has put up pro bowl caliber numbers for 3 straight seasons?

He played a great game but what happened during the season and his 79 rating? What happened when he was given the chance to start in St. Louis? Why didn't he hold the job in Philly? Why didn't he steal the job from Alex Smith when they clearly wanted to replace him?

He is a journeyman capable of having a great game.

[chazoe60]

Nick Foles is more than 1 football game. He has played very well for a good chunk of his career. I would alsdo Sao his failures have come with as lot of extenuating circumstances.

[Rick]

I don't question if he has talent, he does.

The question is has that talent been on display consistently enough over a long period to say this is my guy. I havent seen it.

I don't mind him as a bridge starter and let's see what he's got but I'm not sending a high pick for him and I'm taking a guy in the 1st or second round if I get him.

[Cugel]

ugh. . . PFT is reporting that we could make a run at AJ mccarron if he becomes an unrestricted free agent. . .

Well, he won his arbitration so he's going to be an UFA. The Broncos might want him as a cheaper alternative to Cousins, or they might go after him if they can't sign Cousins. John Elway is not the type to wait to be competitive.

In fact Big Al over on the fan just pointed out that the last QB the Broncos ever drafted and developed as a starter was Brian Griese, and he didn't turn out great. He did last 5 years with the team though, and I think maybe 8 years in the NFL.

The Broncos are just not a draft and develop QBs type of organization. They have not done it since before John Elway was drafted by the Colts. Craig Morton came over from Dallas and New York Giants. So, I don't remember who the last long term starter they actually drafted was.

[Cugel]

I'm not taking a position on either Foles or AJ McCarron because there's too much uncertainty. Foles - who is he really? The SB MVP or the guy who flamed out with the Rams (I) and Chiefs? McCarron? How can anybody really know. How many starts does he even have? It would be a situation like Houston gambling on Brock Osweiler after he looked good in 7 starts.

But there is certainly something to be said for getting a veteran FA and NOT drafting a QB at #5!

You could take the best player available, regardless of position, rather than gambling that Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield turns out to be an All-Pro star in the NFL. That way they should wind up with a really great player. We know that at least 5 all-pro type players will enter the NFL this year.

There just might not be 3 top 10 QBs, and the Broncos might not be able to get one, if there even is one, because it might be Rosen or Darnold and they are going 1-2 and the Browns and Giants aren't likely to trade those picks.

[Simple Jaded]

No source this time a year (or any time of year really) is worth taking at their word. This includes Cugel's sources as amazing as those sources are.

"Sources" make interesting listening/reading and make interesting conversation, but I wouldn't take what any of them have to say with a grain of salt.

I have confirmed this through my sources.

[Simple Jaded]

AJ McCarron/Teddy Bridgewater AND Josh Rosen/Josh Allen.

Preferably Rosen so we can call him Dr Rosen Rosen.

[Joel]

Tough call; as a native Southerner, foals and cousins are equally attractive.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Tough call; as a native Southerner, foals and cousins are equally attractive.

What do baby ponies have to do with it?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

What do baby ponies have to do with it?

I think you missed the joke, boss.

[Rick]

I think you missed the joke, boss.

You're sure he was joking about the ponies and cousins?

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
No source this time a year (or any time of year really) is worth taking at their word. This includes Cugel's sources as amazing as those sources are.

"Sources" make interesting listening/reading and make interesting conversation, but I wouldn't take what any of them have to say with a grain of salt.

Well, I don't disagree with the "grain of salt" comment, but what "sources" are you talking about. The posts I made on this page are MY opinions.

I'm not claiming some great expertise here. AJ McCarron won his arbitration and is now a FA. No source I heard claim that they know the Broncos are interested. I just stated an obvious fact that they COULD consider him as a cheaper alternative if they don't sign Cousins or Case Keenum.

I don't KNOW that they have any interest at all. For all I know, Elway might think McCarron is trash. He certainly hasn't started many games. I'd be highly skeptical if they were to offer him a starting job based on what, 3 games as a starter?

[Rick]

Well, I don't disagree with the "grain of salt" comment, but what "sources" are you talking about. The posts I made on this page are MY opinions.

I'm not claiming some great expertise here. AJ McCarron won his arbitration and is now a FA. No source I heard claim that they know the Broncos are interested. I just stated an obvious fact that they COULD consider him as a cheaper alternative if they don't sign Cousins or Case Keenum.

I don't KNOW that they have any interest at all. For all I know, Elway might think McCarron is trash. He certainly hasn't started many games. I'd be highly skeptical if they were to offer him a starting job based on what, 3 games as a starter?

I was giving you shit for quoting guys you hear on the radio.

[Cugel]

I don't question if he has talent, he does.

The question is has that talent been on display consistently enough over a long period to say this is my guy. I havent seen it.

I don't mind him as a bridge starter and let's see what he's got but I'm not sending a high pick for him and I'm taking a guy in the 1st or second round if I get him.

Has anybody indicated they know the Eagles are willing to trade Foles? I haven't heard that. Just speculation.

And the Philly media seems to think they will want to keep both Foles and Wentz as insurance against the possibility that Wentz's injury might not have him 100% by season's opener. He was hurt pretty late in the season of course.

Seems like good sense to me. They're defending SB champions. Why take the risk of trading Foles when they can keep him and have a SB MVP as their backup QB in case Wentz struggles with injury.

Why should they get rid of him? Sure they would get a draft pick or two, but they are sitting pretty with two good QBs while other teams struggle to find 1.

[Rick]

I agree, for now I would sit on Foles if I were them until they see Wentz come back and play.

If he comes back fine they can still move Foles later.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I think you missed the joke, boss.

Wouldn’t be the first time.

[Joel]

For sake of argument, Foles is a FA SB MVP, and Wentz got them homefield advantage and a bye in just his second year on a cheap contract that runs through 2020. In other words, Foles is going to set the new salary standard for the highest paid position in football, and SB Champs always have more All Pros than they can re-sign under the cap, so why wouldn't they take their chances with Wentz' health when he's already proven he can play with the big boys? Not to mention that Foles just turned 29, so how many more $25M seasons does he have before "veteran" becomes "aging veteran"?

It's unprecedented for a SB Champ to release the SB MVP, much less a SB MVP QB. But after journeyman backup Doug Williams won a SB with Jay Schroeders team he posted a 5-7 record over the next two seasons, then quietly retired.

[Cugel]

I agree, for now I would sit on Foles if I were them until they see Wentz come back and play.

If he comes back fine they can still move Foles later.

Well, I think he only has 1 year left on his contract, so they would have to franchise him in order to keep or trade him in 2019. But, they still might get something for him if they franchised him and traded his rights, just like the Patriots got for Jimmy Garapolo. Foles ought to be worth a 2nd round pick in that scenario - IF the team that traded for him could re-negotiate a long term contract with him, the way the 49ers did with Garapolo.

So, despite all the speculation that the Eagles would maximize Foles' trade value by moving him this off-season, it's most unlikely they will do that!

They cannot be certain until sometime in September whether Wentz is really going to be fully recovered from his knee injury. He might even miss some games or at least be less than 100% to start the season. And why should they take that risk, when they could have the insurance of knowing they have the SB MVP to start and get the team off to a fast start as defending champions, if Wentz can't go.

And it has to be tempting to have the same safety net in place in case Wentz get hurt or re-injures his knee during the season. It worked well enough they won the SB, why change anything?

[Cugel]

For sake of argument, Foles is a FA SB MVP, and Wentz got them homefield advantage and a bye in just his second year on a cheap contract that runs through 2020. In other words, Foles is going to set the new salary standard for the highest paid position in football, and SB Champs always have more All Pros than they can re-sign under the cap, so why wouldn't they take their chances with Wentz' health when he's already proven he can play with the big boys? Not to mention that Foles just turned 29, so how many more $25M seasons does he have before "veteran" becomes "aging veteran"?

It's unprecedented for a SB Champ to release the SB MVP, much less a SB MVP QB. But after journeyman backup Doug Williams won a SB with Jay Schroeders team he posted a 5-7 record over the next two seasons, then quietly retired.

Foles is cheap as hell. He's only making $7.6m this season. That's not expensive even for experienced backup money, let alone a viable starter, let alone SB MVP!


Nick Foles signed a 2 year, $11,000,000 contract with the Philadelphia Eagles, including a $3,000,000 signing bonus, $7,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $5,500,000. In 2018, Foles will earn a base salary of $4,000,000 and a roster bonus of $3,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $7,600,000 and a dead cap value of $5,400,000.

There is literally no downside to holding on to him and all the speculation about the Eagles trading him has been circulated by outside sources. We haven't heard any rumors out of the Eagles that they were interested in dealing Foles at all.

They can always franchise and trade him next off-season.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The Washington Redskins can officially tag Kirk Cousins starting on Tuesday. But if they do, expect the quarterback to go on the offensive.

Cousins will file a grievance through the NFL players’ union if the Redskins stick a franchise tag on him, according to a person with knowledge of the situation who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

The basis for the complaint is simple: Cousins could argue that the organization is violating the terms of the collective bargaining agreement because the team has no intention of engaging in good-faith negotiations on a long-term deal, or having him play under the franchise tag amount of $34.5 million guaranteed in 2018.

rest - https://www.denverpost.com/2018/02/18/kirk-cousins-will-file-grievance-if-franchise-tag-used/

[Joel]

Foles is cheap as hell. He's only making $7.6m this season. That's not expensive even for experienced backup money, let alone a viable starter, let alone SB MVP!

There is literally no downside to holding on to him and all the speculation about the Eagles trading him has been circulated by outside sources. We haven't heard any rumors out of the Eagles that they were interested in dealing Foles at all.

They can always franchise and trade him next off-season.
Ah; all the talk about teams lining up to sign him up gave me the impression he's no longer under contract. If he's got a year left, yeah, he's going nowhere. Maybe he could hold out for more money and force Philly to release him, but otherwise, you're right, they'll never just dump a SB MVP QB with a $7½M cap hit.

Edit: Actually, I take it back; I could totally see Philly trying to get one (or both?) of Clevelands 1st rounders for Foles, and Cleveland being stupid enough to go along because "it's a cheap contract, and we're only committed for a single year." Of course, a year from now they'll either have spent a 1st round pick on a mediocre QB on the wrong side of 30, or have to cough up $20M+/yr to keep their former SB MVP starter.

[topscribe]

rest - https://www.denverpost.com/2018/02/18/kirk-cousins-will-file-grievance-if-franchise-tag-used/
Would be an exceptionally dumb move by the Redskins.

But then, it wouldn't be the first dumb move they've made.

[Cugel]

The Washington Redskins can officially tag Kirk Cousins starting on Tuesday. But if they do, expect the quarterback to go on the offensive.

Cousins will file a grievance through the NFL players’ union if the Redskins stick a franchise tag on him, according to a person with knowledge of the situation who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

The basis for the complaint is simple: Cousins could argue that the organization is violating the terms of the collective bargaining agreement because the team has no intention of engaging in good-faith negotiations on a long-term deal, or having him play under the franchise tag amount of $34.5 million guaranteed in 2018.

I don't understand it at all to be honest. I'm stumped.

First of all Adam Schefter said something on the radio to the effect that to franchise him they would need to carry his $34.6 million on the books until he was traded.

But, he could do one of two things, either of which would royally screw the Redskins:

#1 - He could refuse to sign the franchise tender and sit out. Normally, the team has all the leverage because they can just play hardball, keep the money on the books, and force the player to sit out the season. The player usually folds in that situation. But, the Redskins can't negotiate a long term deal with Alex Smith with Cousins on the books at $34.6m and they have zero intention of keeping him anyway. So, I don't see how that would work.

#2. Worse for the Redskins: Cousins could sign the franchise tender. This would technically allow them to trade him to another team, but Cousins could throw a monkey-wrench into those plans by refusing to negotiate a long term deal with whatever team they want to trade him to.

In that case, no team would be willing to pay the Redskins anything for him because they'd only be getting a 1 year rental at $34.6m. And who would be willing to give up draft picks for a 1 year rental on Cousins, knowing that he would be a FA at the end of the year, and pay him $34.6m on top of that! No team would want to do that.

Maybe the NFLPA wanted Cousins to bring a grievance on behalf of all players?

But, I can't believe the Redskins would do this because Cousins could just sit out a couple of months until they rescinded the tag, and this would totally screw the Redskins because they wouldn't have the money to go out in FA and sign anybody or even sign Alex Smith.

[Cugel]

Ah; all the talk about teams lining up to sign him up gave me the impression he's no longer under contract. If he's got a year left, yeah, he's going nowhere. Maybe he could hold out for more money and force Philly to release him, but otherwise, you're right, they'll never just dump a SB MVP QB with a $7½M cap hit.

Edit: Actually, I take it back; I could totally see Philly trying to get one (or both?) of Clevelands 1st rounders for Foles, and Cleveland being stupid enough to go along because "it's a cheap contract, and we're only committed for a single year." Of course, a year from now they'll either have spent a 1st round pick on a mediocre QB on the wrong side of 30, or have to cough up $20M+/yr to keep their former SB MVP starter.

Cleveland is dumb, but I highly doubt it:

Remember that their last GM passed on drafting Carson Wentz and instead traded down. He got fired after Carson Wentz became an NFL MVP candidate, the Browns still don't have a QB and lost almost every game the last 2 seasons. The new GM knows this and can't be stupid enough to repeat the same mistakes.

They are going to draft a QB at #1 overall to avoid the humiliation of seeing Darnold or Rosen become an elite QB and they passed on getting him, again.

If they do that there's no point in taking Nick Foles. Draft a QB at #1 and he can't just sit there behind Nick Foles for a season or two. The pressure to play him will be too intense.

They totally suck now, so they might as well just trot Darnold out there and suck some more, and hope he learns to become an elite QB.

[NightTerror218]

People say foles is cheap as hell. his trade value is insanely high. Cost more than a 1st round pick prob for him since he is still under contract.

[Cugel]

People say foles is cheap as hell. his trade value is insanely high. Cost more than a 1st round pick prob for him since he is still under contract.

Yes, but they could conceivably get that for him or at least a 2nd rounder like the Pats got for Garapolo after next season, so why trade him now when they aren't sure how soon Wentz will be fully recovered from his knee injury?

Just because other teams desperately need QBs is no reason for the Eagles to oblige them. They don't need to trade Foles this off-season. They can franchise him and trade him next off-season and still get real value for him, just like the Pats did. And Foles is worth more than Garapolo since he was SB MVP and Garapolo has only started a hand full of games.