Looks like Talib is gone

[dogfish]

http://www.9news.com/article/sports/pro-bowl-may-be-talibs-last-appearance-as-bronco/73-512144538

klis is reporting it, and he tends to act as an unofficial mouthpiece for the donkeys from time to time. . . it's the end of an era if it's true-- the No Fly Zone was fun while it lasted. . . slick's gonna be bummed, and so am i. . . i can't help but wonder how much of it is money, and how much is the fact that vance can't handle personalities in the locker room like a grownup coach. . . leader of men needs training wheels and a fresh diaper. . . we sorry!

[Hawgdriver]

I don't want to play against that man.

This blows.

[Poet]

My favorite defender is gone. )=

I'm sorry.

We sorry.

It sorry.

[aberdien]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fa/64/2d/fa642de144ccaeccfba7a24943652fc0.gif

[Poet]

Who do you think is happier, Crabtree or Crabtree's chain?

[Slick]

http://www.9news.com/article/sports/pro-bowl-may-be-talibs-last-appearance-as-bronco/73-512144538

klis is reporting it, and he tends to act as an unofficial mouthpiece for the donkeys from time to time. . . it's the end of an era if it's true-- the No Fly Zone was fun while it lasted. . . slick's gonna be bummed, and so am i. . . i can't help but wonder how much of it is money, and how much is the fact that vance can't handle personalities in the locker room like a grownup coach. . . leader of men needs training wheels and a fresh diaper. . . we sorry!

Elway is losing me.

[Poet]

Elway is losing me.

I sure hope we put that money to good use.

[chazoe60]

Stupid decision. Now our offense will suck and our defense will be mediocre. JFE is on his last legs IMHO.

[Timmy!]

Not to bust up the whole woe is me circle jerk, because I don't like it either, but we pretty much knew this was coming.

[Poet]

Not to bust up the whole woe is me circle jerk, because I don't like it either, but we pretty much knew this was coming.

Oh, Grizz!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Klis article starts out - "Pro Bowl may be Talib's last appearance as Bronco" May be does not mean a definite will be.
Also from his article:


Although Talib has two years left on the six-year, $57 million contract he signed with the Broncos in March 2014, Denver is expected to place him on the trading block because of financial considerations.

The Broncos have two other younger cornerbacks in Chris Harris Jr. ($8.5 million) and Bradley Roby ($8.526 million) scheduled to make a combined $17.026 million in 2018.

http://www.9news.com/article/sports/pro-bowl-may-be-talibs-last-appearance-as-bronco/73-512144538

Talib will turn 32 in February, Chris is 28, and Bradley is 25. Pay for all 3 cornerbacks in 2018 would be $28 million. I do not want to see Talib go, but what other options would the Broncos have?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It’s the end of an era, but we saw it coming. B.B. wouldn’t pay a 32 year old corner top dollar either, not when he’s shown slight signs of decline.

[Slick]

Klis article starts out - "Pro Bowl may be Talib's last appearance as Bronco" May be does not mean a definite will be.
Also from his article:



http://www.9news.com/article/sports/pro-bowl-may-be-talibs-last-appearance-as-bronco/73-512144538

Talib will turn 32 in February, Chris is 28, and Bradley is 25. Pay for all 3 cornerbacks in 2018 would be $28 million. I do not want to see Talib go, but what other options would the Broncos have?

Yes. You pay all 3 of them. You need 3 good corners.

[aberdien]

Talib's cutthroat attitude that has led our defense makes him worth the money IMO.

[Northman]

Cuts have to come from somewhere.

[Poet]

Talib's underpaid right now. He was highly paid at the time of the deal.

On the bright side, at least Joel is happy.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2756397-broncos-trade-rumors-aqib-talib-expected-to-be-placed-on-the-block

Interesting, and a few GM's comments

[BroncoWave]

Yes. You pay all 3 of them. You need 3 good corners.

I'm going to wait and see how the rest of the offseason pans out before I fully judge this move. If this helps us afford Cousins, then it was worth it. Having 3 great QBs is nice, but having a legit QB and 2 great CBs is better.

[topscribe]

It’s the end of an era, but we saw it coming. B.B. wouldn’t pay a 32 year old corner top dollar either, not when he’s shown slight signs of decline.
Well, we got a Super Bowl out of it. On to the next era . . .

[topscribe]

I don't want to play against that man.

This blows.
There may come a time when I hate what he's doing to us, but I will always love him . . .

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
41m41 minutes ago

Troy Renck Retweeted Darin

Fluid situation. I would not release him. Has trade value. As said before I would try to keep him on a restructured deal

Darin‏ @darinpcarr

@TroyRenck all these reports that the @Broncos will trade Talib. Others say no trade value they’ll wait till he is released. Any chance he simply reworks his deal? Elway has consistently said he he doesn’t want to subtract from areas of strength. This seems like a -

[topscribe]

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
41m41 minutes ago

Troy Renck Retweeted Darin

Fluid situation. I would not release him. Has trade value. As said before I would try to keep him on a restructured deal

Darin‏ @darinpcarr

@TroyRenck all these reports that the @Broncos will trade Talib. Others say no trade value they’ll wait till he is released. Any chance he simply reworks his deal? Elway has consistently said he he doesn’t want to subtract from areas of strength. This seems like a -
That would seem more reasonable if possible . . .

[HORSEPOWER 56]

It’s really not news. It sucks, but it’s somewhat expected. Gotta free up that cap space for Cousins who we won’t get anyway. I’d bet Cousins will either stay a Redskin or be a Jet or Brown. Both have more cap than us.

The thought of just cutting a top 5 CB with a cap friendly 2 years remaining on his deal is ludicrous. At least try to trade him. He’ll probably get just as much as we’re paying him if he has to negotiate a deal as if they team we trade him to just takes his contract as is. I’d take any kind of compensation over just cutting him.

[NightTrainLayne]

So, nobody else thinks he worth what we're scheduled to pay him this year?

Interesting.

[Davii]

So, nobody else thinks he worth what we're scheduled to pay him this year?

Interesting.

Plenty do. Slick does, I do, you do, Kinger does, I bet BW does, probably MO, and a host of others. Not sure what JE thinks. Hopefully he does, or hopefully Aqib restructures.

[BroncoWave]

So, nobody else thinks he worth what we're scheduled to pay him this year?

Interesting.

Have you read this thread? The majority of people who have posted in it seem to think he is worth what he s paid.

[Davii]

Have you read this thread? The majority of people who have posted in it seem to think he is worth what he s paid.

Outside of Joel, I can't think of anyone that wants him gone. I think he's a little undervalued personally and if we really need to shave a few million off to get what we need on the offense there are better places to do so.

[NightTrainLayne]

Plenty do. Slick does, I do, you do, Kinger does, I bet BW does, probably MO, and a host of others. Not sure what JE thinks. Hopefully he does, or hopefully Aqib restructures.


Have you read this thread? The majority of people who have posted in it seem to think he is worth what he s paid.

Okay, we do.

But who matters who wants to pay his salary next year? Unfortunately, nobody with a sign-on here will be signing checks to Talib next year. The article states 3 GMs at the senior bowl don't think it's worthwhile to trade for his contract.

[dogfish]

Okay, we do.

But who matters who wants to pay his salary next year? Unfortunately, nobody with a sign-on here will be signing checks to Talib next year. The article states 3 GMs at the senior bowl don't think it's worthwhile to trade for his contract.

that could well be a bluff, IMO. . . look what lesser corners are making. . .

[Poet]

He still graded out as our best corner...ugh.

I understand the business side of it to an extent.

#dontstoptalibing

[Davii]

Okay, we do.

But who matters who wants to pay his salary next year? Unfortunately, nobody with a sign-on here will be signing checks to Talib next year. The article states 3 GMs at the senior bowl don't think it's worthwhile to trade for his contract.

That leaves 28 other GMs. All depends on which ones they asked. If you need a top flight corner he's well worth the price.

[Slick]

What game was it that Talib missed? How did that secondary look?

[NightTrainLayne]

That leaves 28 other GMs. All depends on which ones they asked. If you need a top flight corner he's well worth the price.

I'm not arguing with you.

My initial post said, "interesting".

If another team values him at his contract. . .. then we'll have some pieces in trade to assuage the loss. If nobody else does and we cut him. . .. then I have to legitimately question if he's worth his contract.

[Davii]

I'm not arguing with you.

My initial post said, "interesting".

If another team values him at his contract. . .. then we'll have some pieces in trade to assuage the loss. If nobody else does and we cut him. . .. then I have to legitimately question if he's worth his contract.

Even then I wouldn't until I see what his contract looks like elsewhere

[Cugel]

Have you read this thread? The majority of people who have posted in it seem to think he is worth what he s paid.

He's going to get a lot more than he's being paid now ($12m). What you have to understand is that he isn't worth more to the Broncos because they drafted Roby in the first round, and are paying him $8.5m. Nobody pays their #3 CB $8.5m. Once Roby's contract entered it's last year they were never going to keep Talib. I've been saying this for months all of you kept arguing with me and attacking the idea.

He's younger, and from the first they drafted him to take Talib's place. He's entering the last year of his contract and Talib is over 30 and on the downside of his career. Talib's going to get one more contract. The Broncos had to choose which of them they wanted to keep and they obviously chose Roby, as the younger and cheaper player who is growing into his new role as a starter. They will give him a new contract and keep him around for another 4 years.

This is exactly how the NFL works, always. Teams are always looking to replace their older players with younger cheaper players.

[Cugel]

The problem with trying to trade Talib is that everybody knows the Broncos are going to cut him, so they just wait until he's cut and sign him as a FA without paying the Broncos anything. If they don't do that he's only under contract for them for 1 more year, and they'd be trading for a 1 year player. Then they would have to re-sign him to an extended contract or franchise him (too expensive). Signing him to an extended contract give him the opportunity to demand market value.

So, they might as well not give up anything and just negotiate a cap friendly deal (large signing bonus) for him in the first place.

[OrangeHoof]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-will-reportedly-try-to-trade-aqib-talib-this-offseason-due-to-salary-concerns/

The video lists how the Broncos could double their available cap by doing the following:

* Trade or release Aqib Talib - 1 million in dead money.
* Trade or release Menelike Watson.
* Trade or release C.J. Anderson
* Restructure Von Miller
* Restructure DT or Emanuel Sanders.

[Ziggy]

The bottom line is that the Broncos have to get rid of the strong personalities in the locker room because the coach isn't strong enough to handle them. Expect Talib and Sanders to both be gone by the beginning of the season.

[MOtorboat]

This seems inevitable. He has the lowest cap penalty of the Broncos' high-salaried players.

[Davii]

This seems inevitable. He has the lowest cap penalty of the Broncos' high-salaried players.

That is the reason. Not whether Aqib is worth it or not. He's the 14th highest paid CB and I'd take him over nearly everyone on the list that is paid more.

He might restructure, who knows. I'm not hopeful, but it's possible.

[topscribe]

So, nobody else thinks he worth what we're scheduled to pay him this year?

Interesting.
It's not what Talib is worth. It's what the Broncos can afford. They're trying to clear room for a
quarterback, whose position is always worth more than that of a CB.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

That is the reason. Not whether Aqib is worth it or not. He's the 14th highest paid CB and I'd take him over nearly everyone on the list that is paid more.

He might restructure, who knows. I'm not hopeful, but it's possible.

Right, I think he’s worth the money, and yet I understand why he might go. My feeling is he won’t want to restructure because he’s smart enough to understand his window of being a top dollar corner is short.

[Mike]

I'm sorry, but you just don't make a move like this. Dismantling your strength is not how to make yourself competitive.

I am not a believer in Roby.

Guess it doesn't matter....this team isn't going to be competitive under Joseph anyways.

[BroncoWave]

I'm sorry, but you just don't make a move like this. Dismantling your strength is not how to make yourself competitive.

I am not a believer in Roby.

Guess it doesn't matter....this team isn't going to be competitive under Joseph anyways.

The Patriots make moves like this all the time. They feel it's better to cut a player a year too early than a year too late, and it tends to work quite well for them.

The NFL is becoming more and more a young man's game with the rookie wage scale. Veterans are getting pushed out earlier and earlier across the league. It's just the way of things now.

[Mike]

The Patriots make moves like this all the time. They feel it's better to cut a player a year too early than a year too late, and it tends to work quite well for them.

The NFL is becoming more and more a young man's game with the rookie wage scale. Veterans are getting pushed out earlier and earlier across the league. It's just the way of things now.

Problem is we don't have BB, any kind of resemblance to a working NFL system, or Tom Brady.

[BroncoWave]

Problem is we don't have BB, any kind of resemblance to a working NFL system, or Tom Brady.

Fair, but again, this is becoming more of a league wide trend. Teams are just going younger and younger across the board.

https://www.theringer.com/2016/9/7/16077250/the-nfl-has-an-age-problem-7068825845e4


Football Outsiders tracks a statistic called "Snap-Weighted Age" that averages the age of the players on the field based on snaps. In 2015, the league-wide average age hit its lowest mark since the site started keeping track a decade ago. In 2006, the average age of the players on the field was 27.2; in 2015, it was 26.6. On offenses alone, the average age of players on the field dipped almost a full year, from 27.6 in 2006 to 26.8 last year.

[CoachChaz]

At the end of the 2 years left on this deal he will be 33. No one is going to give him a longer deal that pays top dollar and we'd be foolish to rework his deal past that. Is Roby as good as him NOW? No, but a year or two from now Talib could look like Revis did and Roby along with a better QB and OL is a MUCH better overall value.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Aqib will be 32 on February 13th.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

At the end of the 2 years left on this deal he will be 33. No one is going to give him a longer deal that pays top dollar and we'd be foolish to rework his deal past that. Is Roby as good as him NOW? No, but a year or two from now Talib could look like Revis did and Roby along with a better QB and OL is a MUCH better overall value.

Talib lives life fast, which tends to not lead to physical longevity. Couple that with the fact he only had one INT last year and it makes sense to trade him for what you can get if he won’t rework his deal.

[CoachChaz]

I remember reading an article about 2 years ago about there not being a single CB on an NFL roster that was older than 31. There was probably a reason for that.

[MOtorboat]

The Patriots make moves like this all the time. They feel it's better to cut a player a year too early than a year too late, and it tends to work quite well for them.

The NFL is becoming more and more a young man's game with the rookie wage scale. Veterans are getting pushed out earlier and earlier across the league. It's just the way of things now.

Everyone makes moves like this. It's the reality of a hard cap and non-guaranteed contracts.

[Rick]

Would another team needing a CB pay him that much? Of course they would, so in reality the salary is not the issue with a trade.

Issue is how high of a pick?

[MasterShake]

I love Talib, so in a way I would almost be happier for him if he was able to chase another ring somewhere else. If we somehow land Cousins or something like that I would love to keep him, but if we are just going to languish in a rebuild year let him go somewhere else. Roby will need to step up big, though.

[MOtorboat]

Would another team needing a CB pay him that much? Of course they would, so in reality the salary is not the issue with a trade.

Issue is how high of a pick?

GMs know he's on the chopping block. If they gave up anything for him, it'd likely be a conditional, late-round pick. That's a big "if."

[dogfish]

if we do intend to move him, i'd make the first call to the rams. . . they have a DC who loves talib and actually knows how to use him-- plus, he's a grownup who isn't scared to coach the big boys. . . and they could use some championship experience and swagger, as they try to get through a nasty NFC field next year. . .

[dogfish]

GMs know he's on the chopping block. If they gave up anything for him, it'd likely be a conditional, late-round pick. That's a big "if."

i think it depends on whether someone likes his current contract, and would rather pick it up as is than bid against other teams and hope to get him cheaper. . .

[MOtorboat]

i think it depends on whether someone likes his current contract, and would rather pick it up as is than bid against other teams and hope to get him cheaper. . .

That would be the hope, I suppose. How many trades like that do we see, though? It seems like NFL GMs just like to take their chances with free agency more than make trades to avoid negotiations. Frankly, I can't think of any off the top of my head.

[Rick]

I could see "maybe" a 4th.

[CoachChaz]

I could see "maybe" a 4th.

Only if someone was in love with him. Pretty solid group of CB's heading into free agency as well as in the draft. Supply and demand not working in our favor.

[dogfish]

if we don't sign cousins, should we trade von now while he still has value?

#Devil'sAdvocate

[Rick]

Only if someone was in love with him. Pretty solid group of CB's heading into free agency as well as in the draft. Supply and demand not working in our favor.

SF is close to being a playoff team now that they have a good QB. They also have money. Also have good relations with Denver and first hand experience with Talib.

I could see them dealing a 4th or 5th.

[CoachChaz]

SF is close to being a playoff team now that they have a good QB. They also have money. Also have good relations with Denver and first hand experience with Talib.

I could see them dealing a 4th or 5th.

I would 100% guarantee you that would be a discussion AFTER they missed on younger, more "long term" guys that would fit their plan over multiple years. Trumaine Johnson, Bashaud Breeland, Aaron Colvin, Malcolm Butler, Kyle Fuller, Rashaan Melvin, etc.

The team that trades for Talib...if anyone does...is a playoff team needing a good veteran CB to complete a secondary. Not rebuild projects.

[MOtorboat]

if we don't sign cousins, should we trade von now while he still has value?

#Devil'sAdvocate

Now there's a baseball move. I would hope they wouldn't do that.

[CoachChaz]

Now there's a baseball move. I would hope they wouldn't do that.

They wouldnt if Angelos was running the team

[Ziggy]

I think a GM would be willing to trade for Talib for two reasons:
1. They don't have to sell him on coming to their city because he's under contract for two years.
2. If Denver cuts him, Talib is going to cost more than 20 million over the next two season for whoever signs him. He's still a top 5 corner in this league.

Someone will want to pick up a pro bowl corner who has a cheap contract for the next two seasons for a mid round pick. A team like the Browns is more than likely not going to talk Talib into coming to Cleveland without shelling out a butt ton of money, if even then. Why not trade for him? San Fran won their last 5 games. Upgrading that D might get them to the next level. The Rams have a coordinator who has won a super bowl with Talib being one of the key pieces of his D. Those 3 are just off the top my head. I'm sure there are other teams who would like an all pro caliber corner without having to bid for him.

[CoachChaz]

I think a GM would be willing to trade for Talib for two reasons:
1. They don't have to sell him on coming to their city because he's under contract for two years.
2. If Denver cuts him, Talib is going to cost more than 20 million over the next two season for whoever signs him. He's still a top 5 corner in this league.

Someone will want to pick up a pro bowl corner who has a cheap contract for the next two seasons for a mid round pick. A team like the Browns is more than likely not going to talk Talib into coming to Cleveland without shelling out a butt ton of money, if even then. Why not trade for him? San Fran won their last 5 games. Upgrading that D might get them to the next level. The Rams have a coordinator who has won a super bowl with Talib being one of the key pieces of his D. Those 3 are just off the top my head. I'm sure there are other teams who would like an all pro caliber corner without having to bid for him.

1. Why would Cleveland pay 20 mil for a guy that will be "done" in 2 years when they can draft a guy or sogn a younger guy to be there much longer through the rebuild?
2. If SF was a solid CB away, then sure...but they still have to play in the same division as the Rams and Seahawks and teams are going to figure out Garrapolo.
3. Rams make a ton of sense, but their secondary feeds off of the pass rush and I really see them targeting a guy like Josh Jackson in the draft.

Will be intersting to see...I just dont think we should expect much.

[dogfish]

Now there's a baseball move. I would hope they wouldn't do that.

if we don't get kirk, our chances of contending in the next two years are marginal at best. . . doesn't it make sense to move your one blue chip asset now, while he still has value?

#Devil'sAdvocate

[Rick]

I don't think anyone is ever that far from being a playoff team.

Teams go from shit to contending to back to shit in a seasons time. happens all the time.

We have most of the pieces, we just need to some how stumble on gold at the QB position and maybe get a new HC...

[CoachChaz]

if we don't get kirk, our chances of contending in the next two years are marginal at best. . . doesn't it make sense to move your one blue chip asset now, while he still has value?

#Devil'sAdvocate

Wentz (if healthy)
Wilson
Kaepernick

Just a few guys in recent years that made it to the Super Bowl in their 2nd year with good defenses.

[Rick]

Example being the Vikings were one of the best teams in the league with Keenum at QB. How and when the hell did that happen... I refuse to believe at this juncture that Keenum woke up one morning and was a franchise caliber QB.

Eagles are still flying with freaking Foles at QB. He is a good backup bridge starter at best. Shit happens.

[MOtorboat]

if we don't get kirk, our chances of contending in the next two years are marginal at best. . . doesn't it make sense to move your one blue chip asset now, while he still has value?

#Devil'sAdvocate

In theory yes, but the reason it doesn't happen in the NFL is because you can't possibly get a $ to $ return on your investment like you can in baseball. Put in another form, the blue book value for a NFL player depreciates way faster than the blue book value for a baseball player.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

In theory yes, but the reason it doesn't happen in the NFL is because you can't possibly get a $ to $ return on your investment like you can in baseball. Put in another form, the blue book value for a NFL player depreciates way faster than the blue book value for a baseball player.

Which is why you don’t see 35 year old football players get $100 million guaranteed

[Rick]

In theory yes, but the reason it doesn't happen in the NFL is because you can't possibly get a $ to $ return on your investment like you can in baseball. Put in another form, the blue book value for a NFL player depreciates way faster than the blue book value for a baseball player.

Exception probably being the modern QB with all of the don't touch me rules.

[BroncoJoe]

Thanks for your time here.

Bye.

[WARHORSE]

Love Talib. If they get a good pick....I understand. If they cut him.....um.....no. Dumb move. The man can play and hes a leader of football players. Hes rough around the edges but the man is respected in the lockeroom period. He brings a nasty attitude.

Can see Niners and Wade over on the Rams pumping their fists for him.

[VonDoom]

I’ve been predicting the end of Talib’s time here for a while, but I still think cutting him would be a bad move. He can still play at a high level. This would also be a giant mistake:

https://twitter.com/orangeblue760/status/957985549347893248

[wayninja]

If we traded Talib and a 2nd rounder for Alex Smith, I may officially join the dump Elway bandwagon. That's ******* drastic, but there it is.

[Magnificent Seven]

If Talib is gone... CB Chris Harris Jr. CB Bradley Roby, FS Darian Stewart, and S Justin Simmons

[CoachChaz]

If we traded Talib and a 2nd rounder for Alex Smith, I may officially join the dump Elway bandwagon. That's ******* drastic, but there it is.

I'd have to agree

[dogfish]

I’ve been predicting the end of Talib’s time here for a while, but I still think cutting him would be a bad move. He can still play at a high level. This would also be a giant mistake:

https://twitter.com/orangeblue760/status/957985549347893248

that shit is flat-out retarded. . .

[Hawgdriver]

Subtract attitude from your D to subtract attitude from your O. And give up a possible Will Hernandez.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Why are we putting so much stock in speculation from Tyler Polumbus?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Talib plus a second ? Please...

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It would only take a second to get Smith

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

A prior rotational OT who last played in Denver a decade ago says so!

[Krugan]

Its no more retarded then say 25 mil + for cousins.

Which i wouldnt do either or....

[chazoe60]

Subtract attitude from your D to subtract attitude from your O. And give up a possible Will Hernandez.

And strengthen a division foe greatly.

[dogfish]

A prior rotational OT who last played in Denver a decade ago says so!

you might wanna check your math on that one. . . :listen:

[chazoe60]

A prior rotational OT who last played in Denver a decade ago says so!

Actually he was on o ur SB50 team.

[VonDoom]

https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/958051382669512704

[weazel]

Alex Smith is a hump. I wouldn't give up a 6th for Alex ******* Smith, let alone the best corner in the league and a 2nd. Who the **** makes this shit up?

[wayninja]

Who cares if KC would take... why the **** would we offer?

[chazoe60]

Alex Smith is a hump. I wouldn't give up a 6th for Alex ******* Smith, let alone the best corner in the league and a 2nd. Who the **** makes this shit up?

Alex Smith would look like Peyton Manning compared to the schlubs we've had to endure the last couple seasons.

[slim]

https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/958051382669512704

So the Broncos wouldn't be interested in Talib & 5th for Smith, but would "jump" at Talib and 2nd?

I'm glad Klis cleared that up!

[Slick]

Signing Cousins and dumping Talib makes no sense to me at all.

If they don't sign Cousins and draft a QB at 5 then it would soften the blow a little, knowing that Denver is at least another 2 years away from doing anything.

[MOtorboat]

Signing Cousins and dumping Talib makes no sense to me at all.

If they don't sign Cousins and draft a QB at 5 then it would soften the blow a little, knowing that Denver is at least another 2 years away from doing anything.

We should sign Boogie Cousins instead!

[Buff]

I'm coming around on the idea that it's time to move on from Talib if only because I really don't think we'll be a contender next year and paying a 3rd DB that kind of money is a luxury that only a contending playoff team can afford.

His play definitely justifies his salary - the question is whether we can redeploy those $$ elsewhere to fill an even bigger need.

I see us as the 3rd best team in the West, with a below average coach, and a QB who will be in his first year in the system. I'm just thinking more and more we should be patient, rebuild this the right way, and not get hasty trying to win now. Keeping Talib is a win-now move.

[wayninja]

Below average coach. Kinder words have never been uttered.

[chazoe60]

Below average coach. Kinder words have never been uttered.

To be fair Buff never specified just how far below average VJ is.

[wayninja]

That's true. It could be "below average" like how the way arby's is a below average fast food chain.

That is to say that you'll likely get cholera and die if you eat there.

[Poet]

Disrespect Arby's again and I'll never love you.

[Slick]

Potato cakes ftmfw!

[Poet]

Potato cakes ftmfw!

I missed you.

[Slick]

I missed you.

I missed you too.

[Poet]

I missed you too.

I'm starting to be a little more skeptical about Elway as a GM (when he's not able to sign big FA's) and I feel bad about that. He delivered me to the light.

[MOtorboat]

https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/958051382669512704

I've read this tweet five times. Polumbus threw out Talib and a 5th to KC and Smith to Denver, and Klis said 'nah' and countered with a better offer for the Chiefs and said 'yeah?'

Am I reading that right? Because....yeah.

[dogfish]

In theory yes, but the reason it doesn't happen in the NFL is because you can't possibly get a $ to $ return on your investment like you can in baseball. Put in another form, the blue book value for a NFL player depreciates way faster than the blue book value for a baseball player.

are you saying that, due to his age and high salary cap number, von is already past the point of having enough value to bring a significant return in trade? are you telling me that roby and bolles are the only tradable assets on the roster?

[dogfish]

Wentz (if healthy)
Wilson
Kaepernick

Just a few guys in recent years that made it to the Super Bowl in their 2nd year with good defenses.

this is a totally fair point. . . i'm not sure how relevant the comparison to us is, though. . . too early to tell exactly what they've got in philly, but i would argue that san fran and seattle both had elite head coaches in charge of those turnarounds, while we have one of the worst HCs in the league. . . plus, those rosters both had a LOT of quality young talent, while we have virtually none. . . the seahawks set themselves up for that run with tremendous draft classes in 2011-2013. . . they had the likes of earl thomas, kam chancellor, russell okung, golden tate, KJ wright, richard sherman, byron maxwell, bruce irvin, bobby wagner and russell wilson ALL on their rookie deals when they beat us in 2013. . . plus the cap space to add cliff avril and michael bennett. . .

in 2010-2011, the niners drafted navorro bowman, mike iuapati, anthony davis, aldon smith and kaep to add to an existing veteran core of joe staley, patrick willis, justin smith, vernon davis and frank gore. . .

if we get rid of talib, sanders and CJ this off-season, i just don't see where we have the talent on hand to match those type of results. . . JMO, obviously. . .

[MOtorboat]

are you saying that, due to his age and high salary cap number, von is already past the point of having enough value to bring a significant return in trade? are you telling me that roby and bolles are the only tradable assets on the roster?

How many non quarterbacks get traded for like value?

[OrangeHoof]

I don't know why the Chiefs would be interested in Talib just because KC has a damn good secondary already. But let's say that they did. And I'm not sure Alex Smith is the sort of QB Elway would want. But let's say that they did.

I could see us sending Talib and Seimian to KC for Smith. Talib replaces Revis so I guess that makes sense. Trevor would be a credible back up for Mahomes who won't cost them much. Smith gives Elway a veteran security blanket while they either try one more year to develop Lynch or find another QB early in the draft. According to SportTrac, Smith is in the last year of a 4-yr contract (with one option year), that has a base salary of $10.8 million plus bonuses of $6.1 million. Compared with what Cousins would want, that's a very solid cost.

I'd still have to swallow hard to do that with a division rival but you're not giving up a draft pick and there's a specific role for all three players to fill.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Actually he was on o ur SB50 team.

No kidding, I don’t even remember him. I remember spending a lot of time Washington.

[Mike]

Smith gets worse as the season goes and the weather gets colder. I would rather no team trade for him and make KC eat his salary.

[CoachChaz]

this is a totally fair point. . . i'm not sure how relevant the comparison to us is, though. . . too early to tell exactly what they've got in philly, but i would argue that san fran and seattle both had elite head coaches in charge of those turnarounds, while we have one of the worst HCs in the league. . . plus, those rosters both had a LOT of quality young talent, while we have virtually none. . . the seahawks set themselves up for that run with tremendous draft classes in 2011-2013. . . they had the likes of earl thomas, kam chancellor, russell okung, golden tate, KJ wright, richard sherman, byron maxwell, bruce irvin, bobby wagner and russell wilson ALL on their rookie deals when they beat us in 2013. . . plus the cap space to add cliff avril and michael bennett. . .

in 2010-2011, the niners drafted navorro bowman, mike iuapati, anthony davis, aldon smith and kaep to add to an existing veteran core of joe staley, patrick willis, justin smith, vernon davis and frank gore. . .

if we get rid of talib, sanders and CJ this off-season, i just don't see where we have the talent on hand to match those type of results. . . JMO, obviously. . .

There really is no way to directly make comparisons in the NFL or any other sport, but in general, there are similarities. We could argue the "elite" status of Harbaugh and Carroll, but unless we had a great coach it would mean nothing. We could also argue that it requires a young, talented team to win a Super Bowl. I mean...we recently did it with a completely cooked QB, mediocre running game, bad offensive line and a head coach that made the playoffs 3 times in 10 years with a career winning percentage of 52%. The main point I was getting at was that a 2nd year QB with a good defense and even marginal talent on offense CAN get to and win a Super Bowl in the right situation. That part is up to Elway.

And if Roby fills in for Talib...and we can help the OL and WR corps through FA and draft...I just dont see a significant drop off in talent by losing Tailb, CJ, Sanders.

[Mike]

And if Roby fills in for Talib...and we can help the OL and WR corps through FA and draft...I just dont see a significant drop off in talent by losing Tailb, CJ, Sanders.

Sanders and CJ, no argument.

But you lose out on heart, passion, intensity, and a vocal leader in the defense in Talib. Von isn't a vocal leader or a fire players up type player, neither is Harris. Roby won't be able to play at Talib's level. What happens if Harris or Roby get injured? We have no depth there. Lack of coverage means the DL has to get to the QB quicker or the QB gets rid of the ball quicker and eliminates Von's effectiveness. I think there will be a significant drop off in the secondary and on defense overall without Talib.

I am resigned to it happening, but I think it is a mistake.

[CoachChaz]

Sanders and CJ, no argument.

But you lose out on heart, passion, intensity, and a vocal leader in the defense in Talib. Von isn't a vocal leader or a fire players up type player, neither is Harris. Roby won't be able to play at Talib's level. What happens if Harris or Roby get injured? We have no depth there. Lack of coverage means the DL has to get to the QB quicker or the QB gets rid of the ball quicker and eliminates Von's effectiveness. I think there will be a significant drop off in the secondary and on defense overall without Talib.

I am resigned to it happening, but I think it is a mistake.

The other factor is Talib will be 32 and 33 years old over the next 2 years. Injury, drop-off, etc are all more and more likely as he moves forward. Von still wears a C on his jersey for a reason and I'll disagree with you on Harris and say that he could very well wear that letter as well. Harris is very outspoken in the locker room from all accounts I've read.

As far as a 3rd CB for nickel and injury...we'll just have to draft/sign someone to move in. At the end of the day a good QB is more important to us improving than Talib is.

[BroncoWave]

The other factor is Talib will be 32 and 33 years old over the next 2 years. Injury, drop-off, etc are all more and more likely as he moves forward. Von still wears a C on his jersey for a reason and I'll disagree with you on Harris and say that he could very well wear that letter as well. Harris is very outspoken in the locker room from all accounts I've read.

As far as a 3rd CB for nickel and injury...we'll just have to draft/sign someone to move in. At the end of the day a good QB is more important to us improving than Talib is.

That last part is the key. If moving talib helps us get cousins, it's one million percent worth it. Yeah that's a gamble, but you have to do what it takes to even get a shot at a QB.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I’m more concerned about the pass rush next year than I am the secondary

[Poet]

I’m more concerned about the pass rush next year than I am the secondary

I'm concerned about both. As skilled as our secondary was, we didn't get the INTS like we used to because the pass rush wasn't forcing errant throws, getting QB's behind schedule, etc.

We have no interior pass rush, Wolfe isn't reliable, etc.

[Freyaka]

Why are we putting so much stock in speculation from Tyler Polumbus?

It amazes me how many people trust 247sports to give reliable news... There is ZERO realistic way we end up with Alex Smith because KC isn't stupid enough to let him come here, for any price.

[Freyaka]

That's true. It could be "below average" like how the way arby's is a below average fast food chain.

That is to say that you'll likely get cholera and die if you eat there.

You better not be dissing Arby's...

Those curly fries>all others.

[wayninja]

You better not be dissing Arby's...

Those curly fries>all others.

I'm not dissing arby's. It's already a pejorative. It would be like giving a bad name to pus filled pustules of pure evil.

[Poet]

I'm not dissing arby's. It's already a pejorative. It would be like giving a bad name to pus filled pustules of pure evil.

Must...not...get...banned...again...must...not...

[wayninja]

Must...not...get...banned...again...must...not...

You won't get banned on this board for liking arby's. You may get banned from living though.

[slim]

Must...not...get...banned...again...must...not...

Arby's is good.

Ninja is bad.

[Slick]

Did Arby's make Buff's top 10 list? I can't remember. I think it would make mine.

[BroncoWave]

Must...not...get...banned...again...must...not...

I will take on this battle my friend. I think ninja needs a trip to the pit of misery.

[wayninja]

I assume there's an Arby's there.

[Freyaka]

Can you put a mod on ignore? Asking for a friend....

[Timmy!]

Great. Now I have to go get some Arbys.

[wayninja]

Great. Now I have to go get some Arbys.

To assist the CDC in discovering new drug resistant strains of e.coli?

[Timmy!]

To assist the CDC in discovering new drug resistant strains of e.coli?

My 2 for $6 French dips laugh at your feeble attempts to disparage them. You seem bitter lately. Have you considered getting an emotional support peacock?

[wayninja]

My 2 for $6 French dips laugh at your feeble attempts to disparage them. You seem bitter lately. Have you considered getting an emotional support peacock?

I honestly have no doubt that your arby's sandwiches manage to vocalize laughter.

Now you just need a 6 dollar deductible and you'll be set.

[slim]

I bet Pags has never been to an Arby's.

[Timmy!]

I honestly have no doubt that your arby's sandwiches manage to vocalize laughter.

Now you just need a 6 dollar deductible and you'll be set.

Bob says you don't know good food...he also said it was an honor to be eaten by me. I will miss Bob, he was a good sandwich.

[Timmy!]

I bet Pags has never been to an Arby's.

If they cooked stuff in pink babycrocks he would.

[Davii]

Arbys had a really good chicken salad sandwich a few years back, outside of those I haven't had Arbys in a long time. Their roast beef, and other meats, are sub standard in quality, taste ok, and have more sodium than just eating straight salt.

[slim]

Arbys had a really good chicken salad sandwich a few years back, outside of those I haven't had Arbys in a long time. Their roast beef, and other meats, are sub standard in quality, taste ok, and have more sodium than just eating straight salt.

Take your anti-beef, heart-health propaganda somewhere else!!

[Timmy!]

I worked at an Arbys yeaaaaarrsss ago. The beef is basically meat jello before you cook it.......he said as he began to eat his 2nd French dip.

[wayninja]

You worked at arby's. Game, set, match.

[Timmy!]

You worked at arby's. Game, set, match.

17 years ago. Assistant manager at the one right off the garden of the gods exit in the springs. Don't think it exists anymore. There was this ladder inside that lead to the roof. We got high af up there lol.

[Timmy!]

Great, now I feel old as shit. Where is my emotional support peacock?

[Freyaka]

Great, now I feel old as shit. Where is my emotional support peacock?

It probably got stolen by some Chinese restaurant to be used as mystery meat. If ninja needs someone to go after with his campaign of hate, go after them! Dirty peacock stealing ********.

[nevcraw]

That's true. It could be "below average" like how the way arby's is a below average fast food chain.

That is to say that you'll likely get cholera and die if you eat there.

WTF? when was the last time you ate at Arbys? And what did you have? Yes I’m willing to get banned over this discussion... based on your expert opinion what is an average or above average fast food restaurant? And why?

[nevcraw]

Arbys had a really good chicken salad sandwich a few years back, outside of those I haven't had Arbys in a long time. Their roast beef, and other meats, are sub standard in quality, taste ok, and have more sodium than just eating straight salt.

Sub standard? How so.

[nevcraw]

I worked at an Arbys yeaaaaarrsss ago. The beef is basically meat jello before you cook it.......he said as he began to eat his 2nd French dip.
Ha! But no.. it’s not meat jello. It’s 100 percent beef. It is formed but if you compare it to the rest of the meat at other fast food places it’s way better / cleaner and less fat.

[wayninja]

WTF? when was the last time you ate at Arbys? And what did you have? Yes I’m willing to get banned over this discussion... based on your expert opinion what is an average or above average fast food restaurant? And why?

I don't remember what roadkill covered in cheeze whiz they served me as I likely hallucinated for days.

As discussed in the lounge spinoff(s) of this discussion, Good times is above average. Mainly because their food tastes good and won't give you intestinal cancer*.


*at an unacceptable rate

[Poet]

Wayninja...

Talib says you sorry.

[wayninja]

He ain't watch me?

[tripp]

Arby's is trash

[wayninja]

See? Tripp gets it. I was wondering where all the non-lunatics were.

[wayninja]

It's clearly my fault for derailing this topic so badly, and for that I do apologize. To try to make amends...

It looks like we may have tried to trade Talib to the chiefs as Klis suggested for Smith?

https://twitter.com/NathanZegura/status/958767031230267393

[aberdien]

God help the Broncos.

[Poet]

John's fallen under the curse of Denver upper management and become a drunk.

[wayninja]

I don't honestly know what is worse... the fact that we'd offer it, or the fact that Reid would reject it....

[dogfish]

It's clearly my fault for derailing this topic so badly, and for that I do apologize. To try to make amends...

It looks like we may have tried to trade Talib to the chiefs as Klis suggested for Smith?

https://twitter.com/NathanZegura/status/958767031230267393

f*** me! as i just posted in the cousins thread, ray crockett also said his team sources told him it was true. . . i am about to lose my shit here, ninja!

[wayninja]

I hear you man. I'm getting that empty feeling in my gut... it's twisting and turning and getting bile/acid feels... almost like I had eaten at...

But I digress.

[MOtorboat]

f*** me! as i just posted in the cousins thread, ray crockett also said his team sources told him it was true. . . i am about to lose my shit here, ninja!

I guess I'm not seeing the huge issue here. Team needs a quarterback. Thank goodness they aren't settling for the midget in the draft.

[tripp]

Mike Klis
‏Verified account @MikeKlis
52s52 seconds ago

Mike Klis Retweeted Nathan Zegura

Denver portion of this tweet is false. Broncos did not shop Talib and were not in mix for Alex Smith. This was local radio, pie-in-sky speculation and nothing more.

[dogfish]

I guess I'm not seeing the huge issue here. Team needs a quarterback. Thank goodness they aren't settling for the midget in the draft.

yes. . . the team needs a quarterback-- a GOOD one, not an aging, mediocre, overpaid warm body who has never won jack in a long career. . . smith crumbles under pressure, always has, always will-- he couldn't win on the big stage with far better talent around him than what he'd have here. . . he's perfectly adequate as a short term starter/bridge QB to your QBOTF, and i would have been fine signing him for a couple years if they released him. . . but giving up a top 40 pick to make alex your starter for the foreseeable future? i'm sorry, that's just blatant stupidity and desperation. . . let alone giving a division rival valuable resources for the privilege of doing so. . . piss all over that bad noise-- i'd rather they pay kirk cousins 30 million a year than pay alex freaking smith 23. . .

[MOtorboat]

yes. . . the team needs a quarterback-- a GOOD one, not an aging, mediocre, overpaid warm body who has never won jack in a long career. . . smith crumbles under pressure, always has, always will-- he couldn't win on the big stage with far better talent around him than what he'd have here. . . he's perfectly adequate as a short term starter/bridge QB to your QBOTF, and i would have been fine signing him for a couple years if they released him. . . but giving up a top 40 pick to make alex your starter for the foreseeable future? i'm sorry, that's just blatant stupidity and desperation. . . let alone giving a division rival valuable resources for the privilege of doing so. . . piss all over that bad noise-- i'd rather they pay kirk cousins 30 million a year than pay alex freaking smith 23. . .

I'm good with it given the options.

[dogfish]

Mike Klis
‏Verified account @MikeKlis
52s52 seconds ago

Mike Klis Retweeted Nathan Zegura

Denver portion of this tweet is false. Broncos did not shop Talib and were not in mix for Alex Smith. This was local radio, pie-in-sky speculation and nothing more.

maybe we can have klis arm wrestle whoever started this rumor. . . wait, didn't klis kind of start it? :laugh: either way, i hope he's correct and it's not true. . .

[dogfish]

I'm good with it given the options.

not me, at all. . . if that garbage is the best they could come up with, i'd be 100% in favor of burning the whole thing down and starting with a clean slate and a bunch of resources. . . sometimes that's what it takes. . .

[Buff]

That would have been so dirty if we would have traded Talib to the Chiefs after he served them with that all time quote after winning the AFC Championship...


"We ain't look at nothing the Chiefs did — they got served," "The Chiefs ain't help us do nothing. They sorry."

[wayninja]

We 'aint shop Talib! They sorry!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

maybe we can have klis arm wrestle whoever started this rumor. . . wait, didn't klis kind of start it? :laugh: either way, i hope he's correct and it's not true. . .

This guy is the one who started it, and Klis responded, and said the part about Denver was not true - Nathan ZeguraVerified account
@NathanZegura

Cleveland Browns Senior Media Broadcaster; @Browns_Daily M-F 1-3pm ET; Proud Father of 2, 2 TIME AFFL CHAMPION w/ @vinceconde

[MOtorboat]

This guy is the one who started it, and Klis responded, and said the part about Denver was not true - Nathan ZeguraVerified account
@NathanZegura

Cleveland Browns Senior Media Broadcaster; @Browns_Daily M-F 1-3pm ET; Proud Father of 2, 2 TIME AFFL CHAMPION w/ @vinceconde

Klis literally said the Broncos would jump at that trade on radio and Twitter just yesterday.

[ShaneFalco]

i would be seriously pissed if Smith ended up here for Talib.

[dogfish]

i would be seriously pissed if Smith ended up here for Talib.

don't worry, dude, kelly's spot is safe. . .


until march. . .

[wayninja]

Why am I seeing more reports of Elway shopping talib to the chiefs instead of the criticism of Zegura's "reporting"?

[Poet]

Why am I seeing more reports of Elway shopping talib to the chiefs instead of the criticism of Zegura's "reporting"?

Because no one really believes that it was false. Or, it's up in the air.

[Freyaka]

Why am I seeing more reports of Elway shopping talib to the chiefs instead of the criticism of Zegura's "reporting"?

Because we all know Klis is often the Broncos mouthpiece in the media. Klis had a reason to suggest that we were shopping Talib, things went south and he had to backpedal, but I'm pretty sure it had a nugget of truth to it.

[Poet]

Because we all know Klis is often the Broncos mouthpiece in the media. Klis had a reason to suggest that we were shopping Talib, things went south and he had to backpedal, but I'm pretty sure it had a nugget of truth to it.

Basically if it wasn't Klis people would be skeptical. But Klis is an assboy.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis
‏Verified account @MikeKlis
Jan 29

Mike Klis Retweeted Terry Wayne Carpenter, Jr.

To be clear, 760AM radio's Tyler Polumbus and I were spitballing trade scenarios. He threw out Talib&5th-rd for Smith. I said Talib&2nd and Broncos would jump. Division rival. Cost goes up. Highly doubt Chiefs would take. Chatter, man, chatter. #9sports

Terry Wayne Carpenter, Jr.‏Verified account @TJCarpenterShow

Wait a sec, so Alex Smith is worth Aqib Talib AND a 2nd round pick to Denver? I like Alex, but man... That's a lot for a quarterback who doesn't have the best track record throwing the ball downfield.

[wayninja]

Yeah, Klis was "spitballing" a trade scenario that went down (supposedly) exactly how he spitballed it, but then denied it ever happened when it was reported by others.

Perfectly clear.

[Cugel]

Right, I think he’s worth the money, and yet I understand why he might go. My feeling is he won’t want to restructure because he’s smart enough to understand his window of being a top dollar corner is short.

A restructure is not actually a pay-cut. The team gives the player more up-front money guaranteed, but re-does the contract to spread that cap hit out over the life of the contract as a pro-rated signing bonus. The problem with older players is that if you do that and then cut the guy two years later it results in dead cap space.

And Elway and Russell have been meticulous in not winding up with dead cap space (for players no longer on the roster).

So, they could easily keep Talib if they wanted to, just give him his salary divided up into, say, a 3 year deal with two years guaranteed, so that he gets his money in the form of a signing bonus, with less salary. Lower cap hit.

If they trade or release him, it's because they weren't willing to do that.

[Cugel]

It never made any sense, because the Chiefs ultimately traded him for a LOT less than Talib plus the #40 pick of the entire draft. They might have demanded a premium from the Broncos to trade Smith within the division, but they would be utter fools to take so much less than they could get for him - IF, this were true.

Which it isn't. So, I was right in saying this sounds absurd. If the report were true the Chiefs should have taken the deal in a heat-beat, since they wound up with a much lower draft pick and a much worse player.

[MOtorboat]

I can absolutely see the Chiefs turning that down, not wanting Talib and Marcus Peters in the same secondary. That’s a disaster waiting to happen, on and off the field.

[wayninja]

It never made any sense, because the Chiefs ultimately traded him for a LOT less than Talib plus the #40 pick of the entire draft. They might have demanded a premium from the Broncos to trade Smith within the division, but they would be utter fools to take so much less than they could get for him - IF, this were true.

Which it isn't. So, I was right in saying this sounds absurd. If the report were true the Chiefs should have taken the deal in a heat-beat, since they wound up with a much lower draft pick and a much worse player.

The 2nd rounder is better than a 3rd rounder, no question there. But you could make the argument that Kendall Fuller is a better deal than Talib from a youth and salary standpoint.

[Timmy!]

Lol. Media.

[Cugel]

I can absolutely see the Chiefs turning that down, not wanting Talib and Marcus Peters in the same secondary. That’s a disaster waiting to happen, on and off the field.

Talib wasn't a disaster on this roster, and adding him to the Chiefs makes their secondary scary good. Maybe they wouldn't want his $12m salary, but he's worth it. No way Talib is a bad guy or a locker room cancer, despite his yanking Crab-tree's gold chain off.

The fans hating on Talib is not matched within the organization. The Broncos would like to keep him, but he's not taking a pay cut and they are paying Roby $8.5m now, so it doesn't make cap sense and they can cut him and only take a $1m cap hit, if they do it now.

[Cugel]

The 2nd rounder is better than a 3rd rounder, no question there. But you could make the argument that Kendall Fuller is a better deal than Talib from a youth and salary standpoint.

He's certainly cheaper. But he's definitely not better. So, it's not a "better deal" except in the way that a new Chevy is a "better deal" than an older Ferrari that still has some life left in it. Talib is a pro-bowler and so far Fuller isn't. Maybe he'll be great in future, but right now he's not even close to the player Talib is.

The real reason the Chiefs didn't jump at that Denver offer is because the entire story was B.S. from the word go and the Broncos never offered it.

[wayninja]

He's certainly cheaper. But he's definitely not better. So, it's not a "better deal" except in the way that a new Chevy is a "better deal" than an older Ferrari that still has some life left in it. Talib is a pro-bowler and so far Fuller isn't. Maybe he'll be great in future, but right now he's not even close to the player Talib is.

The real reason the Chiefs didn't jump at that Denver offer is because the entire story was B.S. from the word go and the Broncos never offered it.

Better is fairly subjective. Fuller was the #1 rated slot cover corner last year. #1 is pretty good, right?

The price tag isn't subjective. Fuller is "better".

The average age/declination in play isn't really subjective either. Talib is a fantastic corner there is no doubt. There is a reasonable doubt about how long before he declines. It's sooner rather than later.

Your analogy about cars is awful though. You can't really compare dynamism in the human mind and body to a static machine.

I do want to agree that the Broncos never offered the deal. I'll reserve judgement on it, but I'm grudgingly leaning toward it being true.

[Cugel]

Better is fairly subjective. Fuller was the #1 rated slot cover corner last year. #1 is pretty good, right?

The price tag isn't subjective. Fuller is "better".

The average age/declination in play isn't really subjective either. Talib is a fantastic corner there is no doubt. There is a reasonable doubt about how long before he declines. It's sooner rather than later.

Your analogy about cars is awful though. You can't really compare dynamism in the human mind and body to a static machine.

I do want to agree that the Broncos never offered the deal. I'll reserve judgement on it, but I'm grudgingly leaning toward it being true.

Well, since the guy who started the rumor just completely walked it back and admitted it was wild speculation, I'd say it's all B.S. just like I've been saying all along. :coffee:

And Fuller being the #1 "nickel CB" means nothing. There's a HUGE difference between covering the #1 WR and the nickel back. Most teams have at least 1 WR who's a serious threat, but not three.

That is why the Broncos want to promote Bradley Roby after they have to pay him $8.5m. His salary is the salary of a #2 CB, not a #3 CB.

Fuller is not a pro-bowl caliber CB yet, if he ever becomes one. He's in fact a bit like Bradley Roby, a good young player who is perhaps ready to take a bigger role, but not a super star perennial pro-bowler like Talib. Except Fuller has ONE good season so Roby is currently better.

Talib has 34 INTs and 10 career interceptions for TDs. That is a lot! Kendall Fuller has 4 career INTs, none for TDs.

[wayninja]

Being number 1 at something in the NFL, no matter what it is, hardly "means nothing". I'm not sure how you can even say that with a straight face. Oh sure, qualify it if you want, it probably warrants that, but "means nothing". Nah.

Also, comparing career stats between a near rookie and a 9 year vet seems a bit silly IMO.

[Davii]

Sub standard? How so.

Just because other fast food chains serve hot garbage doesn't mean Arby's is better than sub-standard. If something is unhealthy it's unhealthy, whether you compare it to something less healthy or not. It's like saying a K car was a great car because it's better than a Gremlin.

Their regular old beef and cheddar has more than half the daily recommended sodium, 20g of fat (6g sat fat, 1g trans), etc. It's not the worst thing you could eat, Taco Bell probably has that locked down, but it's not good at all. Yeah, sure, it tastes good... Antifreeze is sweet as well, but I'm not drinking it.

[wayninja]

Arby's vs Antifreeze.

*finishes chugging bottle* - Ahhhhhh!

[Cugel]

Being number 1 at something in the NFL, no matter what it is, hardly "means nothing". I'm not sure how you can even say that with a straight face. Oh sure, qualify it if you want, it probably warrants that, but "means nothing". Nah.

Also, comparing career stats between a near rookie and a 9 year vet seems a bit silly IMO.

What happens if a #3 CB does really well? He gets promoted like Chris Harris and Bradley Roby.

Then he gets more money, like both of them. So, the Chiefs get a promising young player with 2 years experience, and he's a decent prospect. No more.

But, you boxed yourself so far in a corner with this nonsense that you just won't quit.

So, go ahead. You win. :coffee:

[wayninja]

What happens if a #3 CB does really well? He gets promoted like Chris Harris and Bradley Roby.

Then he gets more money, like both of them. So, the Chiefs get a promising young player with 2 years experience, and he's a decent prospect. No more.

But, you boxed yourself so far in a corner with this nonsense that you just won't quit.

So, go ahead. You win. :coffee:

I'm being dead serious here. I would respond if I had any earthly idea what you are talking about.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Jeez nevcraw, what gives? You act like someone called your firstborn fat and stupid

[Joel]

Talib's underpaid right now. He was highly paid at the time of the deal.

On the bright side, at least Joel is happy.
Not really, because we opted to let Webster walk last year "since we have Talib, Webster wants to start and we can't pay a #4 CB starter money." But we can't pay a physical 32-year-old CB $12M/yr, hoping he doesn't get suspended nor sidelined by injuries from onfield brawls or offfield gunshots. It was a short-sighted decision that only made sense if we genuinely thought we could win a SB with a first-year HC 2/3 seasons. Now here we are with NO nickelback (or no #1 CB, if people expect Roby to remain in that role or Harris to return to it.) Speaking of Harris: At least MY favorite Bronco's still on the team, so I'm happy about that.

Internet rumors claiming we offered to trade Talib for Alex Smith suggest he's truly gone though, one way or another.

[MOtorboat]

Not really, because we opted to let Webster walk last year "since we have Talib, Webster wants to start and we can't pay a #4 CB starter money." But we can't pay a physical 32-year-old CB $12M/yr, hoping he doesn't get suspended nor sidelined by injuries from onfield brawls or offfield gunshots. It was a short-sighted decision that only made sense if we genuinely thought we could win a SB with a first-year HC 2/3 seasons. Now here we are with NO nickelback (or no #1 CB, if people expect Roby to remain in that role or Harris to return to it.) Speaking of Harris: At least MY favorite Bronco's still on the team, so I'm happy about that.

Internet rumors claiming we offered to trade Talib for Alex Smith suggest he's truly gone though, one way or another.

I have no worries this front office can find a slot corner. They have cranked out good, physical cornerbacks.

[Joel]

I have no worries this front office can find a slot corner. They have cranked out good, physical cornerbacks.
This is true, and encouraging. Both Harris and Roby have also proven they play well outside; Roby started out there (his first NFL game was a season opener in which he started opposite Reggie Wayne, and denied him a critical deep ball over the middle to seal what started out as a Broncos blowout before morphing into a Colts comeback that fell just a bit short.) Whether that was because the coaches felt Harris lacked the speed and/or experience to play outside or just because he's SO good and experience in the slot it was not worth sacrificing that to cover a #2 receiver is an open question (as well as whether it was some other reason altogether.)

That's another reason I never considered the loss of Talib "the end of the No Fly Zone" nor anything like that. There are actually a lot of reasons this makes sense, and even people who disputed that with me conceded we'd probably part ways with Talib about now. Life goes on.

[CoachChaz]

What happens if a #3 CB does really well? He gets promoted like Chris Harris and Bradley Roby.

Then he gets more money, like both of them. So, the Chiefs get a promising young player with 2 years experience, and he's a decent prospect. No more.

But, you boxed yourself so far in a corner with this nonsense that you just won't quit.

So, go ahead. You win. :coffee:

Decent prospect? LOL

[Freyaka]

Jeez nevcraw, what gives? You act like someone called your firstborn fat and stupid

This is a Talib thread that we are talking about all of this in. It's possible. I'd need to know more information first before I called this likely or not. Was his fat, stupid firstborn wearing a gold chain?

[sneakers]

Better this way than overpay for a defender on the wrong side of his prime. (see Darrelle Revis)

[nevcraw]

Arby's is trash

Arbys Canada doesn’t count...