If we do draft a quarterback, what are you looking for?

[dogfish]

i absolutely think kirk cousins is our Plan A, and that we're going to go all-in to get him. . . but there's no guarantee we'll land him, and a very good chance that we'll be spending a high draft pick on another QB prospect if we don't. . . as we all know, that is a dicey proposition at best. . . there are so many factors that have to be evaluated-- you rarely ever find a guy who checks all the boxes. . . with that said, which traits do you value the most? rate these attributes from one (highest) to nine, in terms of which you'd personally prioritize the most when looking at college QBs. . .


Arm talent - The ability to make all the throws. The velocity to consistently and effectively push the ball down the field in the vertical passing game, and force the ball through the tightest windows at the intermediate level. The ability to put the 20-yard out to the sideline on a dime.

Mental acuity for the game - On-field decision-making skills. The ability to read defenses, go through progressions, and process info rapidly. Can he learn schemes and playbooks quickly, and consistently audible into good looks?

Accuracy, touch and timing - Does he deliver the ball on time? Can he throw receivers open? Does he have consistent ball placement, and the ability to throw through windows, and deliver a catchable ball that hits receivers in stride so they can run after the catch?

Mobility and athleticism - Is he a dual threat guy who can make plays with his legs? Can he escape the pocket and run for first downs? Does he throw accurately on the run?

Pedigree and college production - Did he play in a pro style offense? Did he play against inferior competition? Did he win games, awards, championships?

Intangibles - Toughness, leadership and work ethic. Are you getting a team captain? Is the guy coachable?

Height and frame - Does he have the size and build of a prototypical "stand tall in the pocket" QB? The build to survive NFL hits?

Mechanics and release - How polished is his footwork? Does he have a compact delivery? Slow windup, or funky arm angle?

Durability and medical history - Did he miss games at the college level, or is he a three-year starter who never missed time? Does he have knee or shoulder surgeries on his resume?

[MOtorboat]

A good one.

[aberdien]

The opposite of Paxton Lynch's football talent.

[dogfish]

A good one.

thanks, joe. . .

:welcome:

[dogfish]

The opposite of Paxton Lynch's football talent.

so, short with a weak arm?

[MOtorboat]

so, short with a weak arm?

Baker Mayfield?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I really had to think about this. I used to be a sucker who drooled over the prototype big armed guy. Seen too many of them wash out. Here’s my list:

Arm talent - (4). It is important in that you must force the defense to defend every blade of grass. Accuracy and timing are more important, though. A popgun arm won’t cut it, but he doesn’t need a howitzer either.

Mental acuity for the game - (3). He doesn’t have to be a rocket scientist. Football isn’t rocket science. Siemian and Fitzpatrick are smart, but they suck at playing QB in the NFL. I guess the word is “coachable”. He must learn how to read a defense and execute the playbook. Some freelancing is okay. Too much spells disaster. He needs to be a “professional” and work to become an expert at his craft.

Accuracy, touch and timing - (1). Number one thing for me. Accuracy is everything these days. It’s amazing what a difference it makes to throw guys open or lead guys through a route. It maximizes YAC and minimizes the chance of pass break-ups.

Mobility and athleticism - (7). It’s a plus but not a requirement. Pocket awareness is more important than pure scrambling ability. I’d rather have a Marino or Brady pocket magician than Deshaun Watson.

Pedigree and college production - (6). This is a tough one for me because although it doesn’t matter a whole lot, I want a guy who is a winner. Who came from a program that won because of him, not just while he was there. I want a guy who knows how to win and played his college ball with fire. Who wants to be a HOFer not just a millionaire NFL QB. I think they develop a little of that in college.

Intangibles - (2). This is my second most important thing. He must be mentally tough, ready to work, and willing to lead. The team should look to him to make plays and lead them to wins and never give up until the final whistle blows.

Height and frame - (9). Don’t care at all. Drew Brees and Russell Wilson are proof that it don’t matter.

Mechanics and release - (8). I honestly don’t think it’s all that important. Bernie Kosar and Phillip Rivers have awkward throwing motions. Hell, even Rodgers is more sidearm than true over the top these days. Getting it where it needs to go is more important than looking pretty doing it. Even a slow windup can be compensated for by quick decision making.

Durability and medical history - (5). Depends on the injury. If he has a history of concussions, no thanks. If he has issues with his throwing shoulder, count me out. If he tore an ACL once scrambling for a TD, unless half his game is scrambling, I don’t care as long as he’s healed.

[Tned]

A QB that can pass protect.

[dogfish]

A QB that can pass protect.

thank you, shazam!

:welcome:


lol, seriously though-- we have more than one draft pick, plus that free agency thing. . . it's entirely possible to find a QB and make improvements to the line. . .

[Hawgdriver]

Sorry dog, after reading your traits I see overlap so I'm going to relabel. Here is the order of importance for me.

Accuracy - (low ball dispersion across hundreds of in-game throws)

Production - separate from individual traits, how well has this individual showed an ability to put *everything* together within a team construct and achieve results, and what are the quality of those results in light of the degree of difficulty/handicap. I rank this highly because it's reliable and captures the sum of all traits plus their application, but you have to tease out production in light of circumstances.

Grit/Hate in his heart - Does not give up under duress and in face of extreme adversity. A la Aaron Rodgers.

Work ethic/coachability - Likes to collaborate with coaches and players, loves to grind, constantly dissatisfied with current level of craft.

Mental acuity for the game - (fast-twitch brain, problem solving ability)

Touch/Timing/Pocket situational awareness - Anticipation + Spatial Reasoning (but distinct from accuracy) -- vital trait for any lasting NFL elite status, but improves with experience--hard to judge from what they do in college

Arm talent - (raw velocity)

Leadership / selflessness - Creates teams that play for each other (I think grit/work ethic if present can supplant this trait--deeds not words). Humor + humility + cockiness, locker room stuff.

Athleticism/escapability/mobile platform (balance + strength) - MMA/wrestler's poise, demonstrates anti-leverage techniques to avoid the sack, makes throws on the run

Mechanics and release - How polished is his footwork? Does he have a compact delivery? Slow windup, or funky arm angle?

Height and frame - Does he have the size and build of a prototypical "stand tall in the pocket" QB? The build to survive NFL hits?

Durability and medical history - Did he miss games at the college level, or is he a three-year starter who never missed time? Does he have knee or shoulder surgeries on his resume?

Running back ability - self-explanatory, but all those RB things--shifty, vision, fast, burst, brutal style

That's how I'd rank them, but I think my son has a better ranking system: don't get tackled and pass good.

[Tned]

thank you, shazam!

:welcome:


lol, seriously though-- we have more than one draft pick, plus that free agency thing. . . it's entirely possible to find a QB and make improvements to the line. . .

Not being a college football fan, I don't know much about the QBs, but in general.

If we are going with a QB in the top 5, then we can't really afford a project. It needs to be a QB that can be NFL ready sooner than later. We don't have a quality vet to carry the team for a season or two.

It needs to be a big, mobile QB, because the Broncos have shown no ability in recent years to field a line capable of pass blocking.

No question I would love to have a guy that can throw it 60 yards down field, across his body, while scrambling, but that's really not a necessity, just something we would like to have.

While I could care less about the type of QB he is, what is key is having a guy that has the mentality to bring the team back when down by 7 with two to play.

[Ziggy]

Great thread Dog! Here's my ratings:

1. Mental acuity for the game - This has to be first and foremost. This is the one quality that every great QB has without exception.
2. Intangibles - This is something that cannot be taught. Either a QB has this quality or they don't.
3. Accuracy, touch and timing- All of the arm strength in the world won't do you any good if you can't hit your receiver. See Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf.
Now we get into the bonus qualities-
4. Mechanics and Release- While these can be coached, by the time players get to the NFL they will always revert to muscle memory when the heat is on. See Tim Tebow.
5. Arm talent - This is not a necessity, but it is a huge bonus. Arm talent is the one of the main qualities that made Elway effective before he learned how to be accurate. Joe Montana and Tom Brady never had howitzers, and never needed them.
6. Mobility and athleticism - Another bonus is today's NFL, with the speed of defensive players in this era. The ability to extend a play has always been a back breaker to a defense.
7. Height and frame- It's nice to be able to see over the offensive line, but Drew Brees and Russell Wilson have shown us that a QB can play at a high level while being vertically challenged.
8. Durability and medical history- I don't care as much about medical history as much as I do durability. You can't win a game in the trainer's room.
9. Pedigree and college production - History has shown us that college production is not necessarily a must for success in the NFL. Elway was 20-23 at Stanford. He won more games than any QB in the history of the NFL when he retired. Joe Montana completed a whopping 52% of his passes at the college level.

[Buff]

I know it sounds so old school and unscientific but maybe first and foremost is that they've got to be a natural leader, love the game, and be the hardest worker in the building type of guy. You can't be a great football team with a QB who is punching the clock. You can't be a great QB and not be a great leader. It's the most important position in professional sports - the guy should want to embrace that role.

Beyond great character and work ethic is accuracy, pocket awareness (natural feel), escapability and then arm strength.

Guys like Brady and Peyton are so rare who can compensate for a lack of mobility with their ability to make the right decision almost every play. Guys like Rodgers and Russell Wilson who can beat you from the pocket, on the edge and running are the ideal model. Going back to being able to attack every blade of grass - QB mobility is pretty much essential.

It seems like I just wrote down a bunch of cliches - another way to look at it is by addressing all the fatal flaws of our current QBs to avoid those traits:

--Siemian - Not durable, not mentally tough (folded like a tent when the going got tough), not a natural leader. [Pros: Hard worker, smart, quick release and adequate mobility]
--Brock - Inaccurate, too slow, too lumbering, telegraphs too many throws with long delivery. [Pros: Good teammate, good leader, strong arm, durable
--Paxton - Aloof, immature, inaccurate, not durable. {Pros: Good mobility for his size, good arm strength]

Toughness and durability should probably get a fairly heavy weighting too.

[chazoe60]

Mental Acuity
Accuracy
Arm talent
Intangibles
Durability
Mobility
Mechanics
Pedigree
Height/frame

[turftoad]

I want a gunslinger type in the form of Stafford or Rogers type of guy. Yeah I know. Good luck.

Someone fun and exciting to watch. Someone who can come from behind if needed.

[BroncoWave]

I'll take a QB with Peyton's mind, Elway's arm, Vick's speed, Favre's durability and Brady's work ethic. That's not too much to ask is it? :D

[Davii]

I'll take a QB with Peyton's mind, Elway's arm, Vick's speed, Favre's durability and Brady's work ethic. That's not too much to ask is it? :D

I dont want any piece of Brady. I'll take Peyton's mind and work ethic .

[Shazam!]

Does he come with a Tackle?

[Davii]

Does he come with a Tackle?

No, but Joey Bosa and Khalil Mack will be happy to share some of their extra tackles with him.

[BroncoWave]

I dont want any piece of Brady. I'll take Peyton's mind and work ethic .

I tried to make it one attribute per QB. Say what you want about Brady, but dude worked his ass off to get to where he started as a QB prospect to where he is now. You can hate him all day (and trust me, I do), but you can't deny his work ethic.

[CoachChaz]

I'll take a QB with Peyton's mind, Elway's arm, Vick's speed, Favre's durability and Brady's work ethic. That's not too much to ask is it? :D

The QB that comes closest to checking off ALL of these boxes is Lamar Jackson

[CoachChaz]

It's been hit on in a few responses, but aside from the obvious choice of general talent (NFL arm strength, accuracy, mind for the NFL game), the most important trait is the intangibles. Can he lead, does he have passion, desire to win, ability to improvise, etc. I think these are the things Elway forgot to look for in the draft since he's been in charge.

So, find a QB with a unique combination of Rosen and Jackson's skills, along with Mayfield's intangibles and Allen's size and you might just have the perfect QB. The real trick is deciding which negatives you can live with.

[Northman]

I really had to think about this. I used to be a sucker who drooled over the prototype big armed guy. Seen too many of them wash out. Here’s my list:

Arm talent - (4). It is important in that you must force the defense to defend every blade of grass. Accuracy and timing are more important, though. A popgun arm won’t cut it, but he doesn’t need a howitzer either.

Mental acuity for the game - (3). He doesn’t have to be a rocket scientist. Football isn’t rocket science. Siemian and Fitzpatrick are smart, but they suck at playing QB in the NFL. I guess the word is “coachable”. He must learn how to read a defense and execute the playbook. Some freelancing is okay. Too much spells disaster. He needs to be a “professional” and work to become an expert at his craft.

Accuracy, touch and timing - (1). Number one thing for me. Accuracy is everything these days. It’s amazing what a difference it makes to throw guys open or lead guys through a route. It maximizes YAC and minimizes the chance of pass break-ups.

Mobility and athleticism - (7). It’s a plus but not a requirement. Pocket awareness is more important than pure scrambling ability. I’d rather have a Marino or Brady pocket magician than Deshaun Watson.

Pedigree and college production - (6). This is a tough one for me because although it doesn’t matter a whole lot, I want a guy who is a winner. Who came from a program that won because of him, not just while he was there. I want a guy who knows how to win and played his college ball with fire. Who wants to be a HOFer not just a millionaire NFL QB. I think they develop a little of that in college.

Intangibles - (2). This is my second most important thing. He must be mentally tough, ready to work, and willing to lead. The team should look to him to make plays and lead them to wins and never give up until the final whistle blows.

Height and frame - (9). Don’t care at all. Drew Brees and Russell Wilson are proof that it don’t matter.

Mechanics and release - (8). I honestly don’t think it’s all that important. Bernie Kosar and Phillip Rivers have awkward throwing motions. Hell, even Rodgers is more sidearm than true over the top these days. Getting it where it needs to go is more important than looking pretty doing it. Even a slow windup can be compensated for by quick decision making.

Durability and medical history - (5). Depends on the injury. If he has a history of concussions, no thanks. If he has issues with his throwing shoulder, count me out. If he tore an ACL once scrambling for a TD, unless half his game is scrambling, I don’t care as long as he’s healed.

Agree with this post especially the accuracy portion.

[Freyaka]

I'm kind of on the Kirk or Baker or bust bus personally, but no matter who we get, as long as they aren't a goofy immature doofus like Lynch, I'll give them my support until they prove to be not worth it.

[CoachChaz]

I'm kind of on the Kirk or Baker or bust bus personally, but no matter who we get, as long as they aren't a goofy immature doofus like Lynch, I'll give them my support until they prove to be not worth it.

Agreed. But with the caveat that if we want to win and be competitive the next 2 years, then it's Cousins or nothing. If we're okay with a longer window, then really any of the QB's in this draft would be fine.

[Poet]

i absolutely think kirk cousins is our Plan A, and that we're going to go all-in to get him. . . but there's no guarantee we'll land him, and a very good chance that we'll be spending a high draft pick on another QB prospect if we don't. . . as we all know, that is a dicey proposition at best. . . there are so many factors that have to be evaluated-- you rarely ever find a guy who checks all the boxes. . . with that said, which traits do you value the most? rate these attributes from one (highest) to nine, in terms of which you'd personally prioritize the most when looking at college QBs. . .


Arm talent - The ability to make all the throws. The velocity to consistently and effectively push the ball down the field in the vertical passing game, and force the ball through the tightest windows at the intermediate level. The ability to put the 20-yard out to the sideline on a dime.

Mental acuity for the game - On-field decision-making skills. The ability to read defenses, go through progressions, and process info rapidly. Can he learn schemes and playbooks quickly, and consistently audible into good looks?

Accuracy, touch and timing - Does he deliver the ball on time? Can he throw receivers open? Does he have consistent ball placement, and the ability to throw through windows, and deliver a catchable ball that hits receivers in stride so they can run after the catch?

Mobility and athleticism - Is he a dual threat guy who can make plays with his legs? Can he escape the pocket and run for first downs? Does he throw accurately on the run?

Pedigree and college production - Did he play in a pro style offense? Did he play against inferior competition? Did he win games, awards, championships?

Intangibles - Toughness, leadership and work ethic. Are you getting a team captain? Is the guy coachable?

Height and frame - Does he have the size and build of a prototypical "stand tall in the pocket" QB? The build to survive NFL hits?

Mechanics and release - How polished is his footwork? Does he have a compact delivery? Slow windup, or funky arm angle?

Durability and medical history - Did he miss games at the college level, or is he a three-year starter who never missed time? Does he have knee or shoulder surgeries on his resume?

1. Mental Acuity - if you're not a smart Qb, you only will get if you're a once in a generation talent. The position demands so much from a QB that if you're tops here and just average in terms of physical ability, you'll be fine. We've seen far more great minds make up for a lack of talent than talent make up for a lack of mind.

Accuracy - It's not just hitting the easy throws, or the touche passes. It's the little things like leading a WR so he can make a sharp turn off of a drag, thus netting him more YAC. Or throwing up a fade that only the WR can get, but also not making it damn near impossible. Basically, all the little things that Aaron Rodgers does all the time.

Mechanics - If you don't have good mechanics you're probably inconsistent, which will cut into your accuracy, and when you're under pressure you'll be likely to **** up that much more. Muscle memory is a thing. It's the lamest and easily most boring thing to talk about for QB's, but it matters.

Arm Talent - Make not mistake, the HoF has far more 'cannons' than 'peashooters'. It matters. It's not just chucking the long ball, but being able to hit the deep outs and sideline throws. When the weather is nasty, or you have to put more 'oomph' on the ball becuase you have a defender in your face. We've seen a lot of franchises draft a guy just off of his arm and that usually causes an implosion. Because of that, we sort of undervalue the arm. When you have a guy with a weak arm, and he has to put everything into a throw, you're ******. Look at the loser TS for instance.

Intangibles - Remember when they said Eli wasn't a leader? Then he won a SB and he was a 'quiet leader'. That stuff matters, albeit it's sometimes overblown. I have this too high, probably, but who you are as a person matters a lot.

Durability and medical history - so this is highly important, but I ranked it lowered because it's football and you might have a great medical history before you get into the league and then boom.

The rest I'm too lazy to type.

[Hawgdriver]

I'm kind of on the Kirk or Baker or bust bus personally, but no matter who we get, as long as they aren't a goofy immature doofus like Lynch, I'll give them my support until they prove to be not worth it.

When I went through this exercise all signs pointed to Baker and it troubled me.

I think Rosen and Darnold are probably also fine.

[Freyaka]

When I went through this exercise all signs pointed to Baker and it troubled me.

I think Rosen and Darnold are probably also fine.

My issue with Darnold is I will never, ever, ever trust a USC QB. They are ALWAYS fool's gold. EVERY TIME! I don't think Rosen will be there at our pick.

[Poet]

Carson Palmer was a top notch QB from time to time.

He also might be an outlier.

[Hawgdriver]

My issue with Darnold is I will never, ever, ever trust a USC QB. They are ALWAYS fool's gold. EVERY TIME! I don't think Rosen will be there at our pick.

Palmer, Carr, Leinart, Marinovich could have been elite in the right situation. Palmer had an OK run. Carr got eviscerated and had a hard time in the NFL without his intestines. Leinart felt entitled. Marinovich lacked desire. All of them were legit choices unless you knew that Leinart and Marinovich weren't as hungry as the NFL needed.

Sanchez...fools gold.

Kessler, Barkley ... not considered elite prospects.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

When I went through this exercise all signs pointed to Baker and it troubled me.

I think Rosen and Darnold are probably also fine.

That’s how I felt after I looked at my answers. Mayfield is probably my #1 guy because he’s the anti-Siemian. He’s a fiery leader and passionate with accuracy. Possibly too “competitive” but not milquetoast.

Darnold is my second because he’s physically gifted and a good human being. Supposedly, he’s also super coachable.

Rosen scares me because he seems selfish and only in it for himself and the $. He wants to be rich and famous more than he wants to win Championships as part of a team. He also scares me because of the concussion history.

Allen scares me because of the whole, well he's tall and athletic, but wasnt very accurate either. You can’t continue to use the “he played on a bad team that’s why his completion % is bad” because that’s been debunked. His completion % not counting drops and intentional throw-aways still ranks in the 80s for college QBs (as in he’s the 80th ranked QB this past year in college FB. I just see him as a huge risk and too much of a project like Lynch.

Jackson concerns me as a pure passer. You can get away with running a lot in college, but you must be able to win from the pocket in the pros. Guys who run too much get hurt more.

[Hawgdriver]

Palmer, Carr, Leinart, Marinovich could have been elite ...

Oops. For some reason thought Carr was USC.

[Poet]

Rosen is the most cerebral and mentally capable QB of the class. His teammates love him. He has a strong arm. His mechanics are strong, too.

I don't buy him being selfish. I buy into him having a big personality. Good.

[Hawgdriver]

Rosen ..

His teammates love him.

I heard otherwise. I heard he was an unlikeable dick. But I'm not that bothered by it. Without more context. Could mean he's an ******* that wants to win at all costs, like a Jordan.

[Poet]

I heard otherwise. I heard he was an unlikeable dick. But I'm not that bothered by it. Without more context. Could mean he's an ******* that wants to win at all costs, like a Jordan.

http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/a-beautiful-brash-mind/

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/4/16826100/2018-nfl-draft-josh-rosen-browns-giants-ucla-bruins

When you win and the QB makes you relevant, you love to play for/with him.

[Freyaka]

Carson Palmer was a top notch QB from time to time.

He also might be an outlier.

He is, outside of him we have Cody Kessler, Matt Barkley, Mark Sanchez, John Booty, Matt Lienart. It's a whole lot of nobodies since Carson Palmer in 2002. Several of those were touted to be great QB's and were anything but.

[Hawgdriver]

I don't have a problem with any of this:


Rosen isn’t that quarterback and has never tried to be. During his time at UCLA, he:

Posted a photo of him golfing at one of Donald Trump’s courses, wearing a hat that says “**** Trump.”
Spoke frankly with Bleacher Report about the difficulties of being a student-athlete. Among the quotes from the interview that picked up traction: “Football and school don't go together” and “Raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have.”
Put a hot tub in his freshman dorm, because there wasn’t any rule that said he couldn’t.

[Freyaka]

I heard otherwise. I heard he was an unlikeable dick. But I'm not that bothered by it. Without more context. Could mean he's an ******* that wants to win at all costs, like a Jordan.

Could mean he's a chain smoking dickwad like Cutler. I don't really have enough information to know either way.

Elway won't draft Rosen though. Rosen said bad things about a specific political person that Elway loves so...

[Hawgdriver]

He is, outside of him we have Cody Kessler, Matt Barkley, Mark Sanchez, John Booty, Matt Lienart. It's a whole lot of nobodies since Carson Palmer in 2002. Several of those were touted to be great QB's and were anything but.

They were drafted at reasonable spots and had careers in line with that draft spot. It's hard to make it even as a high first round QB.

[Hawgdriver]

http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/a-beautiful-brash-mind/

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/4/16826100/2018-nfl-draft-josh-rosen-browns-giants-ucla-bruins

When you win and the QB makes you relevant, you love to play for/with him.

Hm.


And heaven help the poor slob who gets into a debate with Josh Rosen.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Rosen is the most cerebral and mentally capable QB of the class. His teammates love him. He has a strong arm. His mechanics are strong, too.

I don't buy him being selfish. I buy into him having a big personality. Good.

Possibly, but he refused to play in UCLA’s bowl game with those same teammates for fear of getting another concussion before the draft. It’s not like he was in the protocol. He got his last concussion 2 months prior. Selfish? Maybe. Self preservation minded? Definitely. There’s a fine line between a guy who questions things to learn and be better and who questions things just to do it because he feels entitled to have everything explained to him. He seems like the latter to me.

[Buff]

Possibly, but he refused to play in UCLA’s bowl game with those same teammates for fear of getting another concussion before the draft. It’s not like he was in the protocol. He got his last concussion 2 months prior. Selfish? Maybe. Self preservation minded? Definitely. There’s a fine line between a guy who questions things to learn and be better and who questions things just to do it because he feels entitled to have everything explained to him. He seems like the latter to me.

I will never ever penalize a guy for not playing in a completely pointless bowl game. In fact, I would question the guy's intelligence if he played and then got hurt.

[Hawgdriver]

http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/a-beautiful-brash-mind/.

Wow.

[Hawgdriver]

Anyone curious about Rosen needs to read that Bleacher Report piece.

Wow.

[Hawgdriver]

I want Rosen like a dog wants to hump a leg.

[Buff]

Wow.

"He's a different bird," says Jason Negro.

[Davii]

"He's a different bird," says Jason Negro.

He's not making it to number 5.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I will never ever penalize a guy for not playing in a completely pointless bowl game. In fact, I would question the guy's intelligence if he played and then got hurt.

Hey Boss, it ain’t me he’s got to convince, it’s NFL GMs and coaches. They tend to look unfavorably on guys who don’t participate in things. What happens when he doesn’t throw at the combine or gets lippy in interviews? It’s not like he’s the only QB with a first round grade out there this year. We’ll see. I gave my reason for not liking him as a prospect (mostly it’s the concussion history), much like MO hates Mayfield, I dislike Rosen.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Anyone curious about Rosen needs to read that Bleacher Report piece.

Wow.

I read it and I wasn’t very impressed. He seems to make decisions like he doesn’t care and like he doesn’t have anything to lose. Seems exactly like a spoiled rich kid to me.

[Buff]

Hey Boss, it ain’t me he’s got to convince, it’s NFL GMs and coaches. They tend to look unfavorably on guys who don’t participate in things. What happens when he doesn’t throw at the combine or gets lippy in interviews? It’s not like he’s the only QB with a first round grade out there this year. We’ll see. I gave my reason for not liking him as a prospect (mostly it’s the concussion history), much like MO hates Mayfield, I dislike Rosen.

I think more and more guys will sit out their bowl games. I assign a zero weighting to that and I've got to think GMs see the bigger picture on that type of thing... But you are correct that if someone views him as entitled to begin with maybe that factors in to their thinking.

[Hawgdriver]

Entitled and high expectations are the same coin, just entitled means unwilling to overcome hardship. I don't see that with Rosen.

The thing about Rosen is that a lot of coaches and teammates won't like an outspoken rookie who is smarter than they are. I don't think he's a good fit with VJ but he would be with Kyle Shanny. Fml

[wayninja]

i absolutely think kirk cousins is our Plan A, and that we're going to go all-in to get him. . . but there's no guarantee we'll land him, and a very good chance that we'll be spending a high draft pick on another QB prospect if we don't. . . as we all know, that is a dicey proposition at best. . . there are so many factors that have to be evaluated-- you rarely ever find a guy who checks all the boxes. . . with that said, which traits do you value the most? rate these attributes from one (highest) to nine, in terms of which you'd personally prioritize the most when looking at college QBs. . .


Arm talent - The ability to make all the throws. The velocity to consistently and effectively push the ball down the field in the vertical passing game, and force the ball through the tightest windows at the intermediate level. The ability to put the 20-yard out to the sideline on a dime.

Mental acuity for the game - On-field decision-making skills. The ability to read defenses, go through progressions, and process info rapidly. Can he learn schemes and playbooks quickly, and consistently audible into good looks?

Accuracy, touch and timing - Does he deliver the ball on time? Can he throw receivers open? Does he have consistent ball placement, and the ability to throw through windows, and deliver a catchable ball that hits receivers in stride so they can run after the catch?

Mobility and athleticism - Is he a dual threat guy who can make plays with his legs? Can he escape the pocket and run for first downs? Does he throw accurately on the run?

Pedigree and college production - Did he play in a pro style offense? Did he play against inferior competition? Did he win games, awards, championships?

Intangibles - Toughness, leadership and work ethic. Are you getting a team captain? Is the guy coachable?

Height and frame - Does he have the size and build of a prototypical "stand tall in the pocket" QB? The build to survive NFL hits?

Mechanics and release - How polished is his footwork? Does he have a compact delivery? Slow windup, or funky arm angle?

Durability and medical history - Did he miss games at the college level, or is he a three-year starter who never missed time? Does he have knee or shoulder surgeries on his resume?

Great post, Dog, here's mine;

1. Height and Frame - This is so important nowadays. If you aren't tall enough to reach the candy on the top shelf, how can you expect to play football with the big boys? A Brick wall type quarterback who towers over everyone on the field is a clear future HOFer on that fact alone.

2. Pedigree and College production - This can't be overstated. If you aren't groomed from birth to be a winner, then you will always be a loser. Give me a guy that wins everything, and he'll win the big one for us too.

3. Mechanics and release - It's not simply enough to get first downs, there has to be a grace and elegance to it. I wan't to wonder if I'm watching a pro football game or the best round ever of dancing with the stars. A guy who can pirouette in the pocket and then throw to wherever within milliseconds of deciding is extremely important.

4. Durability and medical history. - You can't have someone with AIDS be your starting QB. Nuff said.

5. Intangibles. - Tangibly very important.

6. Arm Talent - While not very important, you need a guy that has arms, and is talented with them. Specifically the throwing one.

7. Mobility and Athleticism - I guess it would be nice to have an athletic athlete who will attempt to avoid getting sacked, but it can't be that important.

8. Accuracy, touch, and timing - It's not all that important for a 7'4", 360lb gorilla-robot.

9. Mental Acuity - This is actually a detriment. You don't want individuals, you want someone that can almost be piloted remotely like the the movie Ratatouille. Any significant mental ability will lead to thinking. Players really should limit that.

[Freyaka]

I read it and I wasn’t very impressed. He seems to make decisions like he doesn’t care and like he doesn’t have anything to lose. Seems exactly like a spoiled rich kid to me.

Yea, I'm not sure that the article really helped my opinion of him personally.

[underrated29]

Mental Acumen is #1 for sure. Look at Dak prescott. The guy is terribly inaccurate but he can read the field very very well and so he does a good job. You have to be able to recognize the coverage and zone vs man and whatnot. The right audibles, the right blitz hot routes, everything.

Accuracy is #2 most important. Think of all of the QBs that can read the defense and are accurate. They happen to be most of the greats (Romo, brees, peyton, brady, rivers)

Intangilbles is #3. Tebow had it and we went to the playoffs, with a markedly worse team then we have now. How? Why? Tebow factor. Intangibles are a must

Arm strength is #4. Chad pennington was able to read the defense and was pretty accurate, but he couldnt do much else.

Durability is #5 most important. Look at Sam bradford. This guy can read the D, he is accurate, but he also can never stay healthy. If he could, he would be a pretty darn good QB.




***Edit. College Pedigree. Forgot about this one. This one is very important! I do not care how many wins you had. What conference you were in or what level it was. I obviously prefer it to be against the best Defenses, but to me none of that matters. What matter is how long you have played. It seems like all of the bust QBs have 1 thing in common. They have like 16 starts. Are one year wonders. They are not ready for the pros. I dont care what you did as long as you did it for multiple seasons. None of this 16 starts, 1 year, filled in cuz someone was hurt crap. If you are that good, and worthy of a 1st rd pick, then you should be good enough to start multiple seasons for your college team (regardless of the level)

Size is the least important. If you can play you can play. That is all that matters.

[BroncoWave]

OMG did UR just say something halfway positive about Dak? Write this moment down!

[JPPT1974]

Really need to draft a QB. Who can be throwing and at times mobile. And out of the pocket and accurate.

[MOtorboat]

I think more and more guys will sit out their bowl games. I assign a zero weighting to that and I've got to think GMs see the bigger picture on that type of thing... But you are correct that if someone views him as entitled to begin with maybe that factors in to their thinking.

It didn’t affect McCaffrey or Fournette in any way last year. GMs don’t give a shit whether you played in your last bowl game or not.

Also, I meant to fully answering Dog in this thread last night but then never really thought that hard.

[Freyaka]

OMG did UR just say something halfway positive about Dak? Write this moment down!

It was so backhanded I'm not entirely sure you can count it, but it was there.

[underrated29]

It was so backhanded I'm not entirely sure you can count it, but it was there.

But it is true

[BroncoJoe]

Rosen is kind of funny looking.

[chazoe60]

I'm ignoring Rosen and Darnold because I just don't think they'll be available for us. I don't want to get attached to an impossibility.

[Freyaka]

Rosen is kind of funny looking.

Glad I'm not the only one that saw the picture and was like "oh great, another QB that looks a bit gooberish"

[Poet]

Possibly, but he refused to play in UCLA’s bowl game with those same teammates for fear of getting another concussion before the draft. It’s not like he was in the protocol. He got his last concussion 2 months prior. Selfish? Maybe. Self preservation minded? Definitely. There’s a fine line between a guy who questions things to learn and be better and who questions things just to do it because he feels entitled to have everything explained to him. He seems like the latter to me.

Leonard. Fournette.

Rosen has to know why. He has to know the justification. He solves puzzles. He's brilliant. Brilliance goes with ego. No one was more arrogant than Favre - who played up the good ole boy schtick when it suited him and then answered with hard political lines when that suited him. He's a HoFer. Tom Brady is one of the best and he thinks he's the best ever. Peyton Manning was said to be arrogant behind the scenes. Warren Moon has said had he not been robbed of part of his career he'd be the GOAT. Dan Marino was incredibly smug.

I don't want a humble QB. A humble QB, if that's who they are at their core, is a weakling.

If someone is great at something, they're beyond confident.

Go get the most polished guy with the best mind in the draft. Win games. **** bitches. Make money.

[chazoe60]

King is absolutely correct. Humbleness is a fine trait for a human to possess and I want the vast majority of people in my life to have it, but I want my lawyer, my surgeon and my QB to be arrogant ******.

[Poet]

King is absolutely correct. Humbleness is a fine trait for a human to possess and I want the vast majority of people in my life to have it, but I want my lawyer, my surgeon and my QB to be arrogant ******.

The trick is to be like PFM and not be fake but not let it corrupt you or make you impossible to work with or be around.

I'm calling Elway! We gettin' Rosen!!!!

[Cugel]

I'm ignoring Rosen and Darnold because I just don't think they'll be available for us. I don't want to get attached to an impossibility.

They will almost certainly be gone to the Browns and Giants with the first two picks. Both need a QB badly, so why would they trade out of those picks?

That leaves either Kirk Cousins, or else a transition QB + Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield?

[CoachChaz]

Lot's of maybes to play with. Maybe the Browns become enamored with the potential of Allen (they've done dumber things)...maybe the Giants prefer to fix the OL or take a top end RB...maybe another team trades in front of us...

Bottom line, there are a million variables that could lead us to any of about 7-8 different players.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

They will almost certainly be gone to the Browns and Giants with the first two picks. Both need a QB badly, so why would they trade out of those picks?

That leaves either Kirk Cousins, or else a transition QB + Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield?

It’s not even about trading out of it. The Browns may value Barkley and not want to risk losing him to the Giants or Colts so knowing they have the #4 pick and knowing the Colts don’t need a QB, might wait til 4. They might actually prefer Allen...

The Giants actually don’t have to draft a QB, either. Eli is still there. Shurmur is their coach. He might just try to bring in Keenum or Bridgewater instead of a rookie. Lots of things are possible.

[underrated29]

King is absolutely correct. Humbleness is a fine trait for a human to possess and I want the vast majority of people in my life to have it, but I want my lawyer, my surgeon and my QB to be arrogant ******.



The Lawyers, guns and money.....


Or whatever that song is. Warren Zevon or something. I dont know. I remember you mentioned that song a while back.

[chazoe60]

The Lawyers, guns and money.....


Or whatever that song is. Warren Zevon or something. I dont know. I remember you mentioned that song a while back.

Love that song

[Cugel]

It’s not even about trading out of it. The Browns may value Barkley and not want to risk losing him to the Giants or Colts so knowing they have the #4 pick and knowing the Colts don’t need a QB, might wait til 4. They might actually prefer Allen...

The Giants actually don’t have to draft a QB, either. Eli is still there. Shurmur is their coach. He might just try to bring in Keenum or Bridgewater instead of a rookie. Lots of things are possible.

Their new Gm just said they are bringing ELi back. But, Adam Schefter says they are almost certain to take a QB. He's sort of the unofficial NFL source, so I guess he knows something.

Eli won't last too much longer so they need a Qb. Ben McAdoo benched him due to his declining skills, of course his team sucked around him so it could be that too. . . .

[CoachChaz]

Their new Gm just said they are bringing ELi back. But, Adam Schefter says they are almost certain to take a QB. He's sort of the unofficial NFL source, so I guess he knows something.

Eli won't last too much longer so they need a Qb. Ben McAdoo benched him due to his declining skills, of course his team sucked around him so it could be that too. . . .

When you go into a game with the #26 rushing offense, a worse OL than ours and Tavarres King is your primary receiver...you have deeper issues than aging QB play.

[WARHORSE]

Ill settle for a 6 foot tall Brees like guy.

Carry on. :coffee:

[Cugel]

When you go into a game with the #26 rushing offense, a worse OL than ours and Tavarres King is your primary receiver...you have deeper issues than aging QB play.

No doubt about that! They got rid of all his talent and tried to push him out the door. That got the coach and GM fired. I guess the new one learned "whoa! That blowback was really intense! Maybe I shouldn't do the same thing that got my predecessor fired in mid-season!"

But, it starts with the QB position. Eli is nearing the end of his career. He might have one more season left, maybe 2, but it might not be pretty. They will treat him with respect now that they saw the fans, media and former players reaction to the benching of Eli.

But, they definitely want to draft and groom his replacement, and they have the #2 pick which gives them a perfect opportunity to do just that. They can draft either Rosen or Darnold and develop him for a season or even 2 before throwing him in before he's ready.

No QB in this year's draft has looked like they could just step onto the field and start winning NFL games.

I'm not a college football guy so I don't have opinions on any of them, but that is the word out of all reports I hear "none of these guys is really ready."

[tripp]

From what I'm reading on twitter, every person in media is in love with Baker Mayfield. People fall in love with these guys so much before they're drafted, guys like Mayock too.. and then they turn into Paxton Lynch.

Not buying any kind of hype surrounding these guys because they look good throwing the football against or senior bowl players. I'll take Cousins over any QB in this draft

[Freyaka]

From what I'm reading on twitter, every person in media is in love with Baker Mayfield. People fall in love with these guys so much before they're drafted, guys like Mayock too.. and then they turn into Paxton Lynch.

Not buying any kind of hype surrounding these guys because they look good throwing the football against or senior bowl players. I'll take Cousins over any QB in this draft

I'll take cousins too, but if we can't get cousins, we could do a lot worse than Mayfield IMO.

[Ziggy]

From what I'm reading on twitter, every person in media is in love with Baker Mayfield. People fall in love with these guys so much before they're drafted, guys like Mayock too.. and then they turn into Paxton Lynch.

Not buying any kind of hype surrounding these guys because they look good throwing the football against or senior bowl players. I'll take Cousins over any QB in this draft

Same thing happened with Wentz at the Senior Bowl. He was a small school prospect and no one was really sure if he could compete at the next level. The Senior Bowl is simply matching seniors up against some of the best in the country to see how they compete. Mayfield is taking advantage of this opportunity and doing and saying the right things. It doesn't mean he will be a star, but it is a good sign.

[tripp]

Same thing happened with Wentz at the Senior Bowl. He was a small school prospect and no one was really sure if he could compete at the next level. The Senior Bowl is simply matching seniors up against some of the best in the country to see how they compete. Mayfield is taking advantage of this opportunity and doing and saying the right things. It doesn't mean he will be a star, but it is a good sign.

True, but who would you rather take, a proven QB in free agency (Cousins) who looks good against NFL players OR a kid that looks good competing against other senior bowl players?

IMO: If the hype isn't Andrew Luck hype, I'm not sold. Yeah you can get guys like Carson Wentz but it's a crap shoot that I'd rather not take. We can really improve our O-line with a high pick.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

True, but would you take a proven QB in free agency (Cousins) who looks good against NFL players VS a guy that looks good competing against other senior bowl players?

It just depends on the guy competing against other seniors. The Eagles obviously made the right choice, even though they already had Foles.

Risk/reward

[CoachChaz]

True, but who would you rather take, a proven QB in free agency (Cousins) who looks good against NFL players OR a kid that looks good competing against other senior bowl players?

IMO: If the hype isn't Andrew Luck hype, I'm not sold. Yeah you can get guys like Carson Wentz but it's a crap shoot that I'd rather not take. We can really improve our O-line with a high pick.

Problem is...Proven free agent QB's are rarely ever available and we dont know for sure what Washington plans on doing with Cousins. But even if he does become available, there is no guarantee we can afford him. Especially with the cap space the equally QB needy Jets have. As far as draft prospects, the Andrew Luck's come once in a generation, so you HAVE to crap shoot with the others.

I think if Elway has the mentality of Cousins or bust, we're going to be in for a few miserable years.

[Cugel]

Problem is...Proven free agent QB's are rarely ever available and we dont know for sure what Washington plans on doing with Cousins. But even if he does become available, there is no guarantee we can afford him. Especially with the cap space the equally QB needy Jets have. As far as draft prospects, the Andrew Luck's come once in a generation, so you HAVE to crap shoot with the others.

I think if Elway has the mentality of Cousins or bust, we're going to be in for a few miserable years.

From what their coach is saying in throwing the damp towel on Kirk Cousins abilities, it doesn't look like they want to pay him what it will take to keep him. They have the #14 pick of the draft I believe so they could take a QB or they could try and land a FA veteran (or both) who fits better into their salary cap.

A team that is willing to pay Cousins $28-$30m is a more likely landing place. Reports that Denver is "all in" on signing Cousins would indicate that Elway is impatient and doesn't want to wait the 2 or 3 years it will take to draft and develop a QB, which makes sense, and also that he doesn't love any of the other FA QBs on the market or potentially on the market.

I don't claim any special insight into what teams are thinking but it doesn't look like Cousins will be staying in DC or coming to Denver, just because other teams with more money will be trying to sign him.

That would leave as possibilities Teddy Bridgewater, who is a promising QB only in his 4 season, but there's that knee injury to worry about. I haven't heard a peep about Denver wanting him, but that doesn't mean they haven't considered it.

Case Keenum - probably they will franchise him in MN and see what they have for one more year. It's hard to argue for giving him a long-term deal based on this season and the way he played in the playoffs. But, they could decide to part ways.

Sam Bradford. He'll be available. For what that is worth. Theoretically they could sign him as a 1 or 2 year bridge QB. He's injured rather often though.

Alex Smith would require a trade and the Chefs will want a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him (if they can get it. Some NFL experts are insisting that the Chefs will want more to trade him within the division. Don't know if that is true. But, while intriguing it's unlikely he lands here.

AJ McCarron. No comment.

Eli and Drew Brees aren't going anywhere so they are pretty much off the board. I don't know what else that leaves.

This was supposed to be the best FA QB class of all time, but it doesn't look like it right now. Not surprising, since really good QBs almost never are let go by their teams. The Cousins screw up in DC is obviously an outlier.

[tripp]

Emphasis should be on winning now with this defense.

If you draft a QB that you anticipate on being the starter straight away, you may as well cut half of your defense that's costing you big $$$, and focus on rebuilding the OL if that's the route they're going to take.

[Cugel]

Freyaka

Quote Originally Posted by tripp View Post
From what I'm reading on twitter, every person in media is in love with Baker Mayfield. People fall in love with these guys so much before they're drafted, guys like Mayock too.. and then they turn into Paxton Lynch.

Not buying any kind of hype surrounding these guys because they look good throwing the football against or senior bowl players. I'll take Cousins over any QB in this draft
I'll take cousins too, but if we can't get cousins, we could do a lot worse than Mayfield IMO.

I'd say you are both right. Cousins is pretty clearly Plan "A". Getting a bridge QB and drafting either Allen or Mayfield is Plan "B". But, Cousins might not leave DC and if he does, at least 10 teams will be actively courting him. Denver might not be the best landing spot for him either. And teams like the Jets have a lot more cap room.

[Freyaka]

Everyone wants to go the Cousins route, and I'd be ok with it, but it sounds like the Jets want him. If they start throwing "anything it takes" deals at him, we won't win. We don't have the cash to keep up with their close to $80M in cap space.

[CoachChaz]

Everyone wants to go the Cousins route, and I'd be ok with it, but it sounds like the Jets want him. If they start throwing "anything it takes" deals at him, we won't win. We don't have the cash to keep up with their close to $80M in cap space.

I think we can stay with them in terms of AAV, but if they start front loading or offering a crazy bonus, we're out of the mix. I dont see them paying some stupid price for him just because they can, but they are able to get a little more creative with intangibles.

[dogfish]

it depends on whether he prioritizes going to a winning organization, or squeezing out every last drop that he can. . . if the latter is the case, he's not our guy anyway, and the jets are welcome to him. . .

[Cugel]

According to Alfred Williams, all NFL players are "that kind of player." Idiot fans may expect a player to come to a team for less money because they love that team. NFL players are mercenaries with a limited playing time, and they want to maximize their salaries if they can.

And they don't give a damn about your favorite team.

The exceptions are sometimes when a team has a Hall of Fame QB like Brady or Manning and players (DeMarcus Ware) are willing to come for less $ just to win a championship in the next few years.

Denver just finished 5-11 and has a lot more problems than just QB. Nobody is taking a home-town discount to come here. They will go where the money is.

If the Jets offer Cousins a lot more money than the Broncos he will go there.

[tripp]

I'd honestly be just as happy with Alex Smith. You could potentially go Alex Smith and draft a QB, or go Alex Smith and rebuild OL. Alex Smith is only 33, going on 34 in May, he could easily have 4+ years of football left in him. You wouldn't nearly be shelling out the same kind of cash Cousins is demanding, meaning you can go in free agency with some decent upgrades in some positions.

Priority should be QB and OL this off-season. I don't believe in best player available this year..

[Ziggy]

I think Elway wants Cousins as plan A, but I don't think he'll overpay to get him. Elway has always been cap savvy when signing free agents. He gave big time contracts to 2 free agents- Talib and Ware. One and possibly both are hall of fame talents. Cousins isn't. I also think he could go with Nelson (unless Barkley drops) at 5 and take a guy like Rudolph in the second. Minnesota has 3 free agent QB's that would all be good bridge QB's for us.

[wayninja]

it depends on whether he prioritizes going to a winning organization, or squeezing out every last drop that he can. . . if the latter is the case, he's not our guy anyway, and the jets are welcome to him. . .

Unless, of course, he has a terrible season, gets traded to the browns, who then dump his ass to the curb. Then he's welcome in Denver.

#PlanA

[CoachChaz]

I think Elway wants Cousins as plan A, but I don't think he'll overpay to get him. Elway has always been cap savvy when signing free agents. He gave big time contracts to 2 free agents- Talib and Ware. One and possibly both are hall of fame talents. Cousins isn't. I also think he could go with Nelson (unless Barkley drops) at 5 and take a guy like Rudolph in the second. Minnesota has 3 free agent QB's that would all be good bridge QB's for us.

I wouldn't count on Rudolph being available in the 2nd.

[Jsteve01]

I think Elway wants Cousins as plan A, but I don't think he'll overpay to get him. Elway has always been cap savvy when signing free agents. He gave big time contracts to 2 free agents- Talib and Ware. One and possibly both are hall of fame talents. Cousins isn't. I also think he could go with Nelson (unless Barkley drops) at 5 and take a guy like Rudolph in the second. Minnesota has 3 free agent QB's that would all be good bridge QB's for us.

I wouldn't count on Rudolph being available in the 2nd. better chance of it being jackson in the second. There are still people saying that Rudolph is the best quarterback in this draft. I don't agree but he definitely shouldn't be getting slept on the way he is

[Northman]

Everyone wants to go the Cousins route, and I'd be ok with it, but it sounds like the Jets want him. If they start throwing "anything it takes" deals at him, we won't win. We don't have the cash to keep up with their close to $80M in cap space.


It's been reported that Denver is going to persue Cousins hard.

[Freyaka]

It's been reported that Denver is going to persue Cousins hard.

I didn't say they wouldn't, I just indicated that the reports are also that the Jets want him and they can go hard longer with their massive cap.

[Shazam!]

I'm sorry, but the Manning situation was different. A - That was PFM. Cousins is not Manning. B - I don't see Elway forking over that kinda dough when he has the 5 pick.

[Northman]

Cousins is far more proven then a rookie Qb.

[wayninja]

There are reports that VJ will be fired.

[aberdien]

There are reports that VJ will be fired.

Don't play.

[Hawgdriver]

There are reports that VJ will be fired.

Times like these, semantics are key. Report and rumor are a case study in connotation.

[wayninja]

Times like these, semantics are key. Report and rumor are a case study in connotation.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2017/12/31/source-denver-broncos-head-coach-vance-joseph-will-be-fired-after-just-one-season/a9sy9p8/

[Hawgdriver]

Dec 31st you say?

[wayninja]

Dec 31st you say?

Well, not I, but yep, that's what it says.

I'm still waiting, since, ya know, reports are tantamount to fact.

[CoachChaz]

I didn't say they wouldn't, I just indicated that the reports are also that the Jets want him and they can go hard longer with their massive cap.

And the Jets are building a nice young team, but I really think the details with offers to Cousins will be minimal. The Jets and even Cleveland for that matter arent going to throw 30 mil at Cousins just because they can. Dorsey and McCagnan are pretty savvy GM's and like Elway, they know what Cousins value is and I dont expect any team to get past 27 mil. If they do...they can have him. Now...Cleveland and the Jets can offer more in up front money than we can, but then you get into semantics and what value that up front money holds over the potential for immediate success in Denver. If Cousins gets 4 offers (CLE, DEN, WAS, NYJ) that are relatively the same and ends up going with the one that gives him a few extra bucks (in NFL terms), then we know what he was after all along.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

And the Jets are building a nice young team, but I really think the details with offers to Cousins will be minimal. The Jets and even Cleveland for that matter arent going to throw 30 mil at Cousins just because they can. Dorsey and McCagnan are pretty savvy GM's and like Elway, they know what Cousins value is and I dont expect any team to get past 27 mil. If they do...they can have him. Now...Cleveland and the Jets can offer more in up front money than we can, but then you get into semantics and what value that up front money holds over the potential for immediate success in Denver. If Cousins gets 4 offers (CLE, DEN, WAS, NYJ) that are relatively the same and ends up going with the one that gives him a few extra bucks (in NFL terms), then we know what he was after all along.

I’m interested to see what he accepts. It’s not like he’s a guy that needs life changing money because he was a fourth round pick. He’s already received life changing money

[CoachChaz]

I’m interested to see what he accepts. It’s not like he’s a guy that needs life changing money because he was a fourth round pick. He’s already received life changing money

And any contract he gets from a team is going to allow him to maintain his "lifestyle" for at least another 5 years.

[Cugel]

There are reports that VJ will be fired.

Oh, he will. Eventually. The question is when.

"If they get a veteran QB like Cousins and the team starts 1-4 or something, obviously the coach will be in trouble." -- Broncos Insider Mike Klis.

Conversely, if they start a rookie QB there will probably be more leeway because you cannot expect the team to just roll out there and instantly compete with a rookie.

[Cugel]

Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
And the Jets are building a nice young team, but I really think the details with offers to Cousins will be minimal. The Jets and even Cleveland for that matter arent going to throw 30 mil at Cousins just because they can. Dorsey and McCagnan are pretty savvy GM's and like Elway, they know what

Cousins value is and I dont expect any team to get past 27 mil. If they do...they can have him. Now...Cleveland and the Jets can offer more in up front money than we can, but then you get into semantics and what value that up front money holds over the potential for immediate success in Denver. If Cousins gets 4 offers (CLE, DEN, WAS, NYJ) that are relatively the same and ends up going with the one that gives him a few extra bucks (in NFL terms), then we know what he was after all along.

A few million bucks is not a few bucks, even in NFL terms. Cousins, like every other player in the NFL will go where the money is. That's what kind of player he is. That's what any sensible player will do.

The only exceptions to this rule is when you have a HOF QB like Manning or Brady, and some players who have already made a lot of money and are nearing the end of their careers, and just want to win a championship (like DeMarcus Ware) are willing to go somewhere for below market dollar just to win now.

Denver is not ready to win SBs right now this season, whether they get Cousins or not. They have all kinds of holes to fill and are going to trade Aqib Talib, which means their defense will be worse.

Since 2015 the defense will have lost: Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan, TJ Ward, Wade Phillips, and now Talib from the SB championship team. It's a completely different defense now, and not nearly as good.

Mike Klis also talked about the team moving to get rid of Emanuel Sanders in a salary dump move too. I don't know if this is going to happen. I would imagine if they land Cousins he's going to want some veteran WRs to throw to, but if the starter next season is Baker Mayfield or something they might as well just clean house and start over with younger players, because that is not a team built to win now anyway.

[chazoe60]

Oh, he will. Eventually. The question is when.

"If they get a veteran QB like Cousins and the team starts 1-4 or something, obviously the coach will be in trouble." -- Broncos Insider Mike Klis.

Conversely, if they start a rookie QB there will probably be more leeway because you cannot expect the team to just roll out there and instantly compete with a rookie.

Hello Captain Obvious.

[wayninja]

Well, if we do start 1-4, it will only be VJ's second year on the job, so we probably should take it easy on him.

[Cugel]

Well, if we do start 1-4, it will only be VJ's second year on the job, so we probably should take it easy on him.

You can argue that, but Elway nearly fired VJ after 1 season. He's not going to survive a slow start, at least if they get a veteran QB like Cousins.

That would mean "we think we're ready to compete for SBs now and we need a re-boot not a re-build". So, if that's their assessment of how talented they are, if VJ fails to win games and especially if they get blown out, he won't last long.

[wayninja]

You can argue that, but Elway nearly fired VJ after 1 season. He's not going to survive a slow start, at least if they get a veteran QB like Cousins.

That would mean "we think we're ready to compete for SBs now and we need a re-boot not a re-build". So, if that's their assessment of how talented they are, if VJ fails to win games and especially if they get blown out, he won't last long.

Really?

[Poet]

Why must you type Broncos Insider? Why?

[tripp]

I want to get excited about the idea of landing Kirk Cousins or a promising young QB but then I realize we have VJ as our head coach

[Cugel]

I want to get excited about the idea of landing Kirk Cousins or a promising young QB but then I realize we have VJ as our head coach

I'm all done getting excited about a promising young QB. That was Paxton Lynch. I was excitedly waiting for him to show some of the signs of promise all the experts talked about at the draft. Only it never happened. He never showed any signs at all and still hasn't.

What drafting a rookie and starting him means is at least 2 more losing seasons. And having VJ isn't going to help. I'm not convinced Jay Gruden is some awesome coach. It could be he sucks and Kirk Cousins has kept his job and we'll see that in 2018 after they suck with Alex Smith. Kirk Cousins has played at a pretty high level for 2 years with pretty bad talent around him.

So, it's likely he could do well here. The defense wouldn't get worn down every game until they started leaking like a sieve in some games. It looked like they had concluded that the offense was so terrible that no defensive effort would be enough and kind of gave up.

That would be understandable. They go out and struggle to stop teams, and then the offense comes right back out and turns the ball over. (Isiah McKenzie for instance).

[WARHORSE]

1. Can he read defenses on the fly, process moving information? Number one without a doubt.
2. Is he a student of his opponent? Will he put in the time it takes to learn every single tendency that he can take advantage of on gameday?
3. Competitiveness? He needs to HATE to lose.
4. Accuracy and touch. Placement.
5. Leadership/work ethic/retain playbook.
6. Poise in the face of pressure.
7. Pocket presence/pocket movement.
8. Setting up defenses-looking off safeties-selling plays-deception
9. Arm strength.
10. Durable.
11. Athleticism.
12. Wants to win more than wanting to get uber rich.

[Cugel]

Why must you type Broncos Insider? Why?

Because It Annoys You? Dilly Dilly!

"Broncos Insider" is some kind of title btw. Check the 9news web site and you'll see.

[Denver27og]

Lamar jackson in the 3rd.... hoping... also hoping VJ gets fired... wow our QBs last year make Kyle Orton and Jake Plummer seem like HOF qbs.. what a bad year it was.. sad to say but the browns offense was more exciting than ours..

[chazoe60]

Lamar jackson in the 3rd.... hoping... also hoping VJ gets fired... wow our QBs last year make Kyle Orton and Jake Plummer seem like HOF qbs.. what a bad year it was.. sad to say but the browns offense was more exciting than ours..

Well, Jake Plummer was the 3rd best QB we've ever had so....

Lamar Jackson might be a great 3rd WR for us.

[dogfish]

Well, Jake Plummer was the 3rd best QB we've ever had so....


it's not saying much for a franchise that's only had two good quarterbacks. . . :heh:

[Freyaka]

it's not saying much for a franchise that's only had two good quarterbacks. . . :heh:

Three...

[slim]

I see your three and raise to four.

[Freyaka]

I see your three and raise to four.

Must be someone pre-Elway. Because I see Elway, Plummer and Manning.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

it's not saying much for a franchise that's only had two good quarterbacks. . . :heh:

We had a dude by the name of Miller for a few games that looked like he had franchise qb potential, but unfortunately he received a concussion in his first or second start and had to retire.

Does anyone remember his full name?

[slim]

We had a dude by the name of Miller for a few games that looked like he had franchise qb potential, but unfortunately he received a concussion in his first or second start and had to retire.

Does anyone remember his full name?

Chris?

[slim]

Must be someone pre-Elway. Because I see Elway, Plummer and Manning.

Siemian is the next Tom Brady.

[Freyaka]

Siemian is the next Tom Brady.

Sure, you bet. You said it first. Lord knows I wouldn't say that...that would be dumb to say that.

[dogfish]

Three...

meh. . . i'm sure craig morton was a nice guy, but he really wasn't all that great at quarterback. . .

[dogfish]

We had a dude by the name of Miller for a few games that looked like he had franchise qb potential, but unfortunately he received a concussion in his first or second start and had to retire.

Does anyone remember his full name?

red miller, that's easy. . .

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Chris?

That was the name on the tip of my tongue, I believe that’s it.

[MOtorboat]

That was the name on the tip of my tongue, I believe that’s it.

He was a 34-year-old dude who'd been out of the league for four years after stinking it up for the Falcons and Rams.

Bubby Brister?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He was a 34-year-old dude who'd been out of the league for four years after stinking it up for the Falcons and Rams.

Bubby Brister?

Thanks for that sobering dose of reality

[MOtorboat]

Thanks for that sobering dose of reality

Sorry. The only reason I know this is that I owned, at one time, his rookie card with the Falcons.