DT could be a free agent March 14th

[GEM]

Thomas' contract contains a $4 million option bonus due by the last day of the league year on March 14. If the Broncos decline to exercise it, the final two seasons of Thomas' contracts are voided, making him a free agent. The dead money makes this interesting. It would be $4.4 million less a $1.33 million cap charge already absorbed for one-third of the bonus.

Translation: the dead cap money would be $3.07 million. Is that a manageable figure? It's a fair question if the Broncos want to allocate their money differently this offseason. Thomas, 30, is due to make $8.5 million in base salary next season

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/broncos/broncos-demaryius-thomas-contract-contains-interesting-wrinkle

[FanInAZ]

Brilliant idea, freeing up enough cap space so we can overpay a QB by cutting one of our only 2 reliable receivers.

#championship

[Cugel]

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/broncos/broncos-demaryius-thomas-contract-contains-interesting-wrinkle

I heard this earlier today. Sportrac had DT listed as a $15m cap hit, which is prohibitive, but $3.5m is clearly doable. They could ask him to reduce his salary, and he might do it. That is a likely scenario.

They apparently tried to trade him during the season, but failed to find a buyer.

[Poet]

If he goes, people are going to be sad af when they realize how good ES actually is.

[Northman]

Brilliant idea, freeing up enough cap space so we can overpay a QB by cutting one of our only 2 reliable receivers.

#championship

Yea, because we won a Championship because of him...errr wait. lmao

[Poet]

Yea, because we won a Championship because of him...errr wait. lmao

We have won playoff games on his back, doe.

If his departure gets us the ability to sign Cousin, or go ham in FA then it be what it be.

[BroncoWave]

I'd be ok with it. He isn't getting any younger.

[Poet]

I'd be ok with it. He isn't getting any younger.

This is also fair.

[Timmy!]

I hate it.

[dogfish]

i think he's gone if he doesn't restructure, and it's probably the right move. . .sorry, MO. . . IMO, he has lost a step, and isn't worth that contract anymore. . . that doesn't change the fact that he's the only thing close to resembling a number one receiver on this roster, and our already pathetic excuse for an offense is likely to sink even lower without him. . . sadly, it's sounding like talib day's are probably numbered as well. . . time stops for no man. . . it looks to me like we're still paying for that super bowl win, and ultimately i'm okay with that. . .

but the FO's inability to draft quality talent is about to get badly exposed if we do in fact lose guys like DT, talib, CJ or sanders. . . because we don't seem to have adequate replacements in the pipeline for any of them aside from roby stepping in for aqib, and we don't have anyone ready to replace roby on the depth chart. . . we got by with existing talent and free agents for a while, but you can only ride that horse so long. . . the failure of high picks like packin' lunch, osweasel, montee ball, hillman, heuermann, latimer, schofield and samfrailo has set this franchise back in a major way, and we're going to end up as a bottom dweller if they can't do better than that going forward. . . i was really disappointed that they didn't do anything more to beef up the FO than increasing gary's role. . . if we can't do better in this draft, they have no choice but to bring in some outside help if we want to stay relevant. . . your drinking buddies aren't getting it done, john. . .

[FanInAZ]

Yea, because we won a Championship because of him...errr wait. lmao

So you believe that we can win a SB with Cousin only throwing the ball to Sanders?

[Poet]

i think he's gone if he doesn't restructure, and it's probably the right move. . .sorry, MO. . . IMO, he has lost a step, and isn't worth that contract anymore. . . that doesn't change the fact that he's the only thing close to resembling a number one receiver on this roster, and our already pathetic excuse for an offense is likely to sink even lower without him. . . sadly, it's sounding like talib day's are probably numbered as well. . . time stops for no man. . . it looks to me like we're still paying for that super bowl win, and ultimately i'm okay with that. . .

but the FO's inability to draft quality talent is about to get badly exposed if we do in fact lose guys like DT, talib, CJ or sanders. . . because we don't seem to have adequate replacements in the pipeline for any of them aside from roby stepping in for aqib, and we don't have anyone ready to replace roby on the depth chart. . . we got by with existing talent and free agents for a while, but you can only ride that horse so long. . . the failure of high picks like packin' lunch, osweasel, montee ball, hillman, heuermann, latimer, schofield and samfrailo has set this franchise back in a major way, and we're going to end up as a bottom dweller if they can't do better than that going forward. . . i was really disappointed that they didn't do anything more to beef up the FO than increasing gary's role. . . if we can't do better in this draft, they have no choice but to bring in some outside help if we want to stay relevant. . . your drinking buddies aren't getting it done, john. . .

Sounds like you want us to just hit pure rebuild mode, which I don't blame you for.

[Shazam!]

Thanks for the memories DT. Good luck, and i hope you go to the NFC.

[BroncoWave]

i think he's gone if he doesn't restructure, and it's probably the right move. . .sorry, MO. . . IMO, he has lost a step, and isn't worth that contract anymore. . . that doesn't change the fact that he's the only thing close to resembling a number one receiver on this roster, and our already pathetic excuse for an offense is likely to sink even lower without him. . . sadly, it's sounding like talib day's are probably numbered as well. . . time stops for no man. . . it looks to me like we're still paying for that super bowl win, and ultimately i'm okay with that. . .

but the FO's inability to draft quality talent is about to get badly exposed if we do in fact lose guys like DT, talib, CJ or sanders. . . because we don't seem to have adequate replacements in the pipeline for any of them aside from roby stepping in for aqib, and we don't have anyone ready to replace roby on the depth chart. . . we got by with existing talent and free agents for a while, but you can only ride that horse so long. . . the failure of high picks like packin' lunch, osweasel, montee ball, hillman, heuermann, latimer, schofield and samfrailo has set this franchise back in a major way, and we're going to end up as a bottom dweller if they can't do better than that going forward. . . i was really disappointed that they didn't do anything more to beef up the FO than increasing gary's role. . . if we can't do better in this draft, they have no choice but to bring in some outside help if we want to stay relevant. . . your drinking buddies aren't getting it done, john. . .

100% agree with all of this. Mo is going to get pissy at you for your DT take, but it's the correct one. He's either lost a step, has stopped caring, or both. Dude just disappears way too much for what he's getting paid. I'd love to keep him if he'd be willing to restructure, but we'll see if that happens. Harder to convince a guy to restructure when it doesn't look like you're gonna be contending for a Super Bowl any time soon, though. If he's gonna take a paycut, he'll probably take it somewhere with a chance to win. Or he'll just go to some shitty team that will throw another big contract at him.

As for the rest, totally agree on that as well. We have like 6 of the first 100ish picks this year. Elway has never needed to nail a draft more than he needs to nail this one.

[Northman]

So you believe that we can win a SB with Cousin only throwing the ball to Sanders?

No.

But having a guy like DT is a waste if you dont have a QB who can actually get him the ball. But, a good QB can always elevate players around them, wide receivers not so much. At this point in time Denver needs a QB more than one good receiver.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

From article:


Renck states that he, and many others, expect the Broncos to ask multiple players to restructure their contracts to create more cap space or even take pay cuts. I’d imagine that Thomas is a strong candidate to get a restructured contract this offseason.

It wouldn’t make any sense for the Broncos to release Thomas anyways. If they are indeed targeting Kirk Cousins, why would they release their number one receiver? That makes the Broncos a much less attractive spot for Cousins and creates another big hole on the offensive side of the ball.

However, it wasn’t really Thomas’s fault for the down numbers this season. He dealt with poor quarterback play from the sucky trio of Trevor Siemian, Brock Osweiler, and Paxton Lynch. The Broncos had a revolving door between the three so the Broncos receivers never had a chance to get any chemistry with whoever was under center.

full article - https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/1/13/16887210/broncos-demaryius-thomas-contract

[Nomad]

DT is frustrating, at times, but I hope he remains a BRONCO. Perhaps the 'suck' at QB contributes to his woes. I don't know. I'd like to see him with a competent QB again. He did pretty good when Manning was breaking records.

[Freyaka]

Brilliant idea, freeing up enough cap space so we can overpay a QB by cutting one of our only 2 reliable receivers.

#championship

Depends on how you define "reliable"

[Timmy!]

After consulting the future, I am confident DT will be a Bronco for the 2018 season. Nostratimmy has spoken.

Oh ya, there was something about Bey-Bey haters, a 800 lb gorilla and teabagging, but it wasn't totally clear. I can only see so much.

[Northman]

Timmeh is very salty.

[ShaneFalco]

Cousins is proving more and more to be a problem then a solution.

Cutting Talib, DT.

What a joke.

[Northman]

Cousins is proving more and more to be a problem then a solution.

Cutting Talib, DT.

What a joke.

You mean he's a problem because of your mancrush on Kelly. Lmao

[ShaneFalco]

You mean he's a problem because of your mancrush on Kelly. Lmao

my mancrush wont cost 30m a year for being average.

[Northman]

my mancrush wont cost 30m a year for being average.

Cousins isnt average though so thats a problem with your logic. Secondly, Kelly wont be winning the job anyway no matter who is on the roster.

[Nomad]

You mean he's a problem because of your mancrush on Kelly. Lmao

So that means Kelly is screwed as far as succeeding. :D

j/k Falco.

[Northman]

So that means Kelly is screwed as far as succeeding. :D

j/k Falco.

He doesnt need Falco's obsession to be a non factor. Denver is clearly looking to move beyond late round projects.

[ShaneFalco]

Cousins isnt average though so thats a problem with your logic. Secondly, Kelly wont be winning the job anyway no matter who is on the roster.

he is average and chokes on game winning drives constantly


Basically a prettier Kyle Orton.

[ShaneFalco]

you cant say Cousins is worth 30m with a straight face.

Brady doesnt even get paid that.

[Northman]

you cant say Cousins is worth 30m with a straight face.

Brady doesnt even get paid that.

Is any player worth that? No.

Is Von worth all the money he is getting? **** no.

But you are smart enough to know that is how the market is now Falconian.

[ShaneFalco]

We will be like the Lions. All the money tied up in QB position, losing every playoff game.

[ShaneFalco]

Is any player worth that? No.

Is Von worth all the money he is getting? **** no.

But you are smart enough to know that is how the market is now Falconian.

The market can eat a dick for all i care.

Let the scrub franchises fight over table scraps.

[Northman]

We will be like the Lions. All the money tied up in QB position, losing every playoff game.

But then again, we could be like the Pats, Saints, Falcons, Packers winning playoff games. Its a risk worth taking when that position is in desperate need of improvement.

[ShaneFalco]

But then again, we could be like the Pats, Saints, Falcons, Packers winning playoff games. Its a risk worth taking when that position is in desperate need of improvement.

Cousins is no Brees, Brady, Rodgers, or even Matt Ryan.

he will look pretty in Orange.

Thats it.

[Northman]

The market can eat a dick for all i care.

Let the scrub franchises fight over table scraps.

You mean while we continue to be 5-10 every season with guys like Siemian, Oz, Lynch, and Kelly? No thanks. Ive seen enough of that show.

[Northman]

Cousins is no Brees, Brady, Rodgers, or even Matt Ryan.

he will look pretty in Orange.

Thats it.

Not yet.

[ShaneFalco]

You mean while we continue to be 5-10 every season with guys like Siemian, Oz, Lynch, and Kelly? No thanks. Ive seen enough of that show.

Kelly didnt even play.

The show has not started.

Take your seats.

Its about to begin

[Northman]

Kelly didnt even play.

The show has not started.

Take your seats.

Its about to begin

He's already got his, on the bench. /thread. lol

[ShaneFalco]

Not yet.

he is 29 years old.

When does it happen Age 35?

[ShaneFalco]

dude cousins is almost 30. And we gunna pay him 30m a year?

Lolz. Recipe for disaster.

[Northman]

dude cousins is almost 30. And we gunna pay him 30m a year?

Lolz. Recipe for disaster.

Manning didnt even get to his first SB until his 8th year. Relax, enjoy the ride.

[ShaneFalco]

this is like losing trevathan and Malik to sign brock all over again.

Doomed.

[Poet]

Cousins isnt average though so thats a problem with your logic. Secondly, Kelly wont be winning the job anyway no matter who is on the roster.

I was very harsh on him before. But you can't have back-to-back seasons like he did while and be average...especially with a lackluster offense this year. I don't know if he's going to turn into a top five elite QB. But I do know that he's a Pro Bowl Caliber QB.

[Northman]

Man dude, you are a major drama lama. lmao

[Nomad]

I'm ready for a damn good QB to play for Denver again. Get Cousins and draft Nelson.

[Northman]

I was very harsh on him before. But you can't have back-to-back seasons like he did while and be average...especially with a lackluster offense this year. I don't know if he's going to turn into a top five elite QB. But I do know that he's a Pro Bowl Caliber QB.

Boom.

His last 3 seasons in that shit hole called Washington is nothing less than impressive. Imagine putting him on an actual talented team.

[Poet]

this is like losing trevathan and Malik to sign brock all over again.

Doomed.

This past offseason we had the cap space to sign Campbell (14.5 sacks, DE in 3-4) or Andrew Witworth (top two LT for the past four years) and we did neither. This was one year after letting a couple good players go. We cut Ward and used that money to roll over for THIS year and to resign our kicker and Todd Davis. Denver wasn't in great cap space, but it was manageable.

It'll be okay, baby.

[ShaneFalco]

whatever, people on this forum told me we had to sign brock instead of keeping defensive guys.

YOU WILL ALL BURN FOR THIS.

[Poet]

Boom.

His last 3 seasons in that shit hole called Washington is nothing less than impressive. Imagine putting him on an actual talented team.

He had one year with a lot of talent on offense, one year with less talent on offense but it was okay, and this past year his surrounding talent was dookie.

If Denver wants to go into win now mode, then Cousins is the best bet. If they want to rebuild the team, that's fine, and I support that as well. I just don't want some half-foot-in-half-foot-out approach.

[Poet]

whatever, people on this forum told me we had to sign brock instead of keeping defensive guys.

YOU WILL ALL BURN FOR THIS.

You also argued with me for two seasons that TS was good.

[ShaneFalco]

show me some game winning drives by the cuz

[ShaneFalco]

You also argued with me for two seasons that TS was good.

No i didnt.

I said he was better then Lynch.

Dont try to flip the script on me!

[Davii]

I don't see DT going anywhere unless we're truly blowing it up and rebuilding in full. If we're looking at a FA QB we're not going to cut the best WR on the team before we ask them to come here. I think DT, and quite a few others, will be asked to restructure. Given the product on the field last season I don't think that's a crazy request.

[ShaneFalco]

OH and Brandon Marshall talking about Kirt Cousins.

He should void his contract and play for free so we can sign him them.

Because he was ghosted all season long.

[Poet]

No i didnt.

I said he was better then Lynch.

Dont try to flip the script on me!

You called him Trigga Trev, said he should be the starter, talked about him being the guy, etc.

You celebrated him. We know it. We saw it. We felt it.

I won't let this moment become between us. I'm home, SF. I came home!

[Nomad]

It'll be ok, Falco. Take a deep breath, and find your zen. DT will be a BRONCO. NostraTimmy has said so.

[ShaneFalco]

You called him Trigga Trev, said he should be the starter, talked about him being the guy, etc.

You celebrated him. We know it. We saw it. We felt it.

I won't let this moment become between us. I'm home, SF. I came home!

Over Mark Sanchez and Paxton Bust. Absolutely.

Trigger Trev better then both!

[Northman]

show me some game winning drives by the cuz

Dont have any videos but he has 12 game winning drives according to Pro Football Reference.

[ShaneFalco]

im gunna burn this mother down.

[Poet]

Over Mark Sanchez and Paxton Bust. Absolutely.

Trigger Trev better then both!

Remember when you wanted him over Tony Romo and you said that he was going to be the man?

We were here, baby. I'm going to let this go, but I see you.

[Nomad]

im gunna burn this mother down.

Just don't kick the puppy.

[ShaneFalco]

Remember when you wanted him over Tony Romo and you said that he was going to be the man?

We were here, baby. I'm going to let this go, but I see you.

Romo didnt even play! lol

[Nomad]

King....Falco needs a hug. Are you up to it?

[Poet]

Romo didnt even play! lol

And he still had a better TD to INT ratio than TS!

#shotsfired
#donotleadwiththechin
#oldschool
#datboydead
#ohlawd
#couldnothelpmyself
#dillydilly

[Poet]

King....Falco needs a hug. Are you up to it?

I love him. He is my Brother.

[ShaneFalco]

https://i0.wp.com/www.wall4k.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Sweet-I-Miss-You-Gif-Greetings-Animation-Image.gif?resize=366%2C271

[Davii]

Guys, please nudge back towards the topic of the thread. Thanks.

[ShaneFalco]

my chihuahua puppy in my lap doesnt like my typing so much.

[Poet]

I apologize, Davii.

I would rather have KC, ES, a solid WR picked up in FA/a highly drafted WR over no KC and DT and a rookie QB that is not Darnold/Allen.

[Nomad]

Like I said before in my first post, DT gets a competent QB, and his production will go up. I'd be surprised to see Denver let him go.

[Ziggy]

DT is among the league leaders in dropped passes year after year:

2017- 2nd in the NFL
2016- 3rd in the NFL
2015- 5th in the NFL
2014- 1st in the NFL
2013- 8th in the NFL
2012- 5th in the NFL

DT has the 6th highest average salary amongst receivers in the NFL. Is he a top 6 receiver? Hard to say with the current QB situation in Denver.

[Poet]

DT is among the league leaders in dropped passes year after year:

2017- 2nd in the NFL
2016- 3rd in the NFL
2015- 5th in the NFL
2014- 1st in the NFL
2013- 8th in the NFL
2012- 5th in the NFL

DT has the 6th highest average salary amongst receivers in the NFL. Is he a top 6 receiver? Hard to say with the current QB situation in Denver.

Many of the most targeted WR's are going to be on that list. Terrell Owens is regarded as a top five WR of all time, and he dropped a shit load of balls. This is not a good argument, Ziggy. I love you, but it's true.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

DT is among the league leaders in dropped passes year after year:

2017- 2nd in the NFL
2016- 3rd in the NFL
2015- 5th in the NFL
2014- 1st in the NFL
2013- 8th in the NFL
2012- 5th in the NFL

DT has the 6th highest average salary amongst receivers in the NFL. Is he a top 6 receiver? Hard to say with the current QB situation in Denver.

He’s also in the top 3 every year for yac, and has been #1 more than once. TO and BM had the same problem because they look to run before securing the ball.

[Cugel]

Like I said before in my first post, DT gets a competent QB, and his production will go up. I'd be surprised to see Denver let him go.

Apparently Spotrac is wrong and the cap hit on releasing DT is only $3.5m somehow, and not $15m which they were reporting. In any case, they could ask him to re-negotiate and take a pay cut. Nobody wants to pay him top 5 WR money any more so if he gets cut in FA he's not going to get what he was getting here.

Now that they aren't going to take a ginormous cap hit from cutting him, they have a lot more leverage - since they really could cut him now if he refused to re-negotiate.

[Ziggy]

Many of the most targeted WR's are going to be on that list. Terrell Owens is regarded as a top five WR of all time, and he dropped a shit load of balls. This is not a good argument, Ziggy. I love you, but it's true.

Eh, not arguing for or against it. Just presenting facts. It's hard to judge a wr in an offense with no qb and no Oline. DT will always have a soft spot in my heart for his performance in the Super Bowl vs Seattle. He was the only Bronco on offense besides Manning with an ounce of heart.

I'd be ok if he goes and ok if he stays.

[MOtorboat]

Seven drops in 140 targets. Half of 1 percent of his targets. Man, it's just so insignificant.

Would be a huge mistake to handcuff a new quarterback by taking away his best option before the two even play a game together.

[BroncoWave]

Seven drops in 140 targets. Half of 1 percent of his targets. Man, it's just so insignificant.

Would be a huge mistake to handcuff a new quarterback by taking away his best option before the two even play a game together.

I think the only way we'd get rid of him would be to afford Cousins, and I think Cousins would be good enough to make it work with whatever WRs we had. If we draft someone to be the guy, I'd assume DT stays.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Seven drops in 140 targets. Half of 1 percent of his targets. Man, it's just so insignificant.

Would be a huge mistake to handcuff a new quarterback by taking away his best option before the two even play a game together.

And yet he still catches a greater percentage of his target than Sanders

[BroncoWave]

And yet he still catches a greater percentage of his target than Sanders

That doesn't take into account how accurate the pass is, though. The pass could sail 10 yards over the WR's head but that still counts as a "target" that the WR didn't catch. It would make sense that ES has a lower rate there since a lot of his routes are deeper down the field and those passes tend to be less accurate. Many of DT's targets are on shorter routes set up to get him YAC, so it would make sense that more of the balls thrown his way are catchable.

[Northman]

I dont even care about his occasional stone hands. But for me personally im quite tired of having shitty QB play and we need to upgrade there PERIOD. We have two very good receivers yet one is more costly than the other. People need to wake up, gone are the days of keeping every single player on one team that we grow attached to and receivers are no different than RB's at this stage and far more expendable than QB's. Im not sure that DT will even be gone but if a sacrifice has to be made between Sanders and DT than DT gets the short end of the stick. It just is what it is but then you roll with Sanders and either sign a FA or draft a guy. Its not really that hard to understand here folks.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Found the following. Unless I do not understand it, there is not much difference between DT and Sanders

Denver Broncos 2018 Salary Cap

An updated look at the Denver Broncos 2018 salary cap table, including team cap space, dead cap figures, and complete breakdowns of player cap hits, salaries, and bonuses.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/cap/

[Cugel]

I dont even care about his occasional stone hands. But for me personally im quite tired of having shitty QB play and we need to upgrade there PERIOD. We have two very good receivers yet one is more costly than the other. People need to wake up, gone are the days of keeping every single player on one team that we grow attached to and receivers are no different than RB's at this stage and far more expendable than QB's. Im not sure that DT will even be gone but if a sacrifice has to be made between Sanders and DT than DT gets the short end of the stick. It just is what it is but then you roll with Sanders and either sign a FA or draft a guy. Its not really that hard to understand here folks.

They are going to try and restructure DT's contract and give him a pay cut. Well, he can either take the pay cut here or go elsewhere and try and get more money. But, he's not commanding anything like $15m. He's no longer an elite game-breaking WR.

[Poet]

That doesn't take into account how accurate the pass is, though. The pass could sail 10 yards over the WR's head but that still counts as a "target" that the WR didn't catch. It would make sense that ES has a lower rate there since a lot of his routes are deeper down the field and those passes tend to be less accurate. Many of DT's targets are on shorter routes set up to get him YAC, so it would make sense that more of the balls thrown his way are catchable.

But that would also apply to ES as well, who catches his fair share of shorter routes, too.

I agree with you about cutting DT if it means we get KC. But if we are drafting a rookie WR, DT becomes much more valuable to the team.

[Cugel]

I think the only way we'd get rid of him would be to afford Cousins, and I think Cousins would be good enough to make it work with whatever WRs we had. If we draft someone to be the guy, I'd assume DT stays.

They might try and re-negotiate his contract in either case. They stupidly let him hit FA and THEN tried negotiating a deal, which he's no longer worth. The question is whether he will take a pay-cut or try his luck elsewhere.

Since we learned that the huge cap hit that was reported on his contract, was in fact not true. It's more like $3.5m which means they could very well cut or trade him if he won't re-structure. And his leverage is less than great because no team is going to pay him what he's due this season.

[turftoad]

I dont even care about his occasional stone hands. But for me personally im quite tired of having shitty QB play and we need to upgrade there PERIOD. We have two very good receivers yet one is more costly than the other. People need to wake up, gone are the days of keeping every single player on one team that we grow attached to and receivers are no different than RB's at this stage and far more expendable than QB's. Im not sure that DT will even be gone but if a sacrifice has to be made between Sanders and DT than DT gets the short end of the stick. It just is what it is but then you roll with Sanders and either sign a FA or draft a guy. Its not really that hard to understand here folks.

Agreed. Both DT and Sanders had very down years. I find it hard to believe they have both regressed that far. The regression comes from the QB position which has sucked the last two years.

[broncofaninfla]

I'm not sold on DT like I have been in years past. For one he hardly ever seems to be open and for two he doesn't have the best hands. Add to it he isn't much of a leader, I can see this being his last year.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

But that would also apply to ES as well, who catches his fair share of shorter routes, too.

I agree with you about cutting DT if it means we get KC. But if we are drafting a rookie WR, DT becomes much more valuable to the team.

ES is older and counts more against the cap. DT is the wrong receiver to dump if we need to do that.

[Poet]

I'm not sold on DT like I have been in years past. For one he hardly ever seems to be open and for two he doesn't have the best hands. Add to it he isn't much of a leader, I can see this being his last year.

He's open - we've had horrible QB's and he's not going to be the one to nickle and dime the defense. His hands are fine. That argument is statistically irrelevant and vastly overblown. ES is far from a leader, too. He's a bit of a diva.

[Rick]

Not to mention harder to get open when teams can focus on 2 receivers because there is 0 slot game and 0 TE game going on.

[Tned]

DT drops too many balls. That's a given.

He doesn't play as physical (fight for the ball, win jump balls, etc) as you would want given the physical specimen he is.

That said, if you let him go, what are the odds his replacement would be better? In my opinion, pretty low odds his replacement would be better. So, dumping him would almost certainly be a downgrade.

[BroncoWave]

DT drops too many balls. That's a given.

He doesn't play as physical (fight for the ball, win jump balls, etc) as you would want given the physical specimen he is.

That said, if you let him go, what are the odds his replacement would be better? In my opinion, pretty low odds his replacement would be better. So, dumping him would almost certainly be a downgrade.

But when you factor in the money, even if his replacement is a downgrade, it might free up the cash to upgrade elsewhere.

[Tned]

But when you factor in the money, even if his replacement is a downgrade, it might free up the cash to upgrade elsewhere.

Possibly. I wouldn't rule it completely out, I just would be careful. Even with his faults, he's an impressive receiver.

[BroncoWave]

Possibly. I wouldn't rule it completely out, I just would be careful. Even with his faults, he's an impressive receiver.

I become less and less convinced by the year that you need an elite WR to win. Feels more like a luxury than a necessity. Who is the best WR even left in the playoffs? How many rings to Brown, OBJ, Fitzgerald, Green, and CJ have?

I'd rather take my chances with cousins and average WRs than an average QB and great WRs.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

But when you factor in the money, even if his replacement is a downgrade, it might free up the cash to upgrade elsewhere.

And make ES the #1? No thanks

[BroncoWave]

And make ES the #1? No thanks

ES would be one of the best if not the best WR left of any team still in the playoffs. Like I said, you really don't need receivers to win. I'd rather use that money at QB or to beef up the oline or the defense.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I become less and less convinced by the year that you need an elite WR to win. Feels more like a luxury than a necessity. Who is the best WR even left in the playoffs? How many rings to Brown, OBJ, Fitzgerald, Green, and CJ have?

I'd rather take my chances with cousins and average WRs than an average QB and great WRs.

Having someone who is difficult to cover is huge, especially when you have a qb who can get the ball to them.

Gronk
Alshon Jeffrey
Stephon Diggs

The only team that doesn’t have a receiver producing at a high level is Jacksonville who is winning with defense

[BroncoWave]

Gronk I'll give you, the other 2 I think are every bit in Sanders league. I'm not saying you should be totally devoid of talent at the position, but I don't think it's even close to necessary to have the kind of cash tied up there that we do when there are so many holes elsewhere on our roster.

[Canmore]

Gronk I'll give you, the other 2 I think are every bit in Sanders league. I'm not saying you should be totally devoid of talent at the position, but I don't think it's even close to necessary to have the kind of cash tied up there that we do when there are so many holes elsewhere on our roster.

So we make another hole.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Gronk I'll give you, the other 2 I think are every bit in Sanders league. I'm not saying you should be totally devoid of talent at the position, but I don't think it's even close to necessary to have the kind of cash tied up there that we do when there are so many holes elsewhere on our roster.

Outside of playing with Manning ES has never had a 1k yard year. I get the sum of what you’re saying, but just don’t agree.

I don’t believe ES is on a level with those guys. He doesn’t have the physciality of Jeffries or the speed of Diggs. Jeffries had multiple 1k yard seasons in Chicago, and I believe was over 1400 once.

ES was the #3 or #4 guy on Pittsburgh and is probably the most overrated receiver ever to put on a Denver uniform

[Freyaka]

And make ES the #1? No thanks

ES is likely gone. His sexual assault is making news again and with the current #metoo trend going around, I am betting the team will cut him loose to avoid bad PR.

Even without that, ES is two years older, had a bad year, has a lower cap hit and a higher cap savings than DT does.

Writing is on the wall and ES might as well pack his bags. His contract (and the $8M it frees up with a $2M cap hit) make him very expendable.


*Edit* to clarify, I know he got let off the hook for it, but it's a bad time to remind people that it happened at all with the current climate. I am not making a judgement on the matter, but I'm just saying, along with all other things, I don't see us keeping him.

[Rick]

Time to see what Sunshine can do, both as starting QB and #1 WR.

If Mariotta can throw himself a TD pass then so can Sunshine.

[Freyaka]

Time to see what Sunshine can do, both as starting QB and #1 WR.

If Mariotta can throw himself a TD pass then so can Sunshine.

Honestly, we've seen enough out of Sunshine and Latimier this year, that I would be comfortable giving them an expanded role. (I doubt that's a popular opinion, but that's how I feel) I'd be alright with DT/Sunshine and Latimer in the slot (if we resign him obviously.)

If not we can always sign a FA or draft someone.

[Northman]

I become less and less convinced by the year that you need an elite WR to win. Feels more like a luxury than a necessity. Who is the best WR even left in the playoffs? How many rings to Brown, OBJ, Fitzgerald, Green, and CJ have?

I'd rather take my chances with cousins and average WRs than an average QB and great WRs.

Same.

[Northman]

Gronk I'll give you, the other 2 I think are every bit in Sanders league. I'm not saying you should be totally devoid of talent at the position, but I don't think it's even close to necessary to have the kind of cash tied up there that we do when there are so many holes elsewhere on our roster.

Lol, agreed. Diggs and Jeffrey are nowhere in DTs league. The sad truth is WR is starting to become more like RB position where you just need solid players and not star players.

[MOtorboat]

Lol, agreed. Diggs and Jeffrey are nowhere in DTs league. The sad truth is WR is starting to become more like RB position where you just need solid players and not star players.

You have an argument, but Minnesota isn't the example to use. Thielen was top 10 in catches and top 5 in yards. He's a stud.

[turftoad]

You have an argument, but Minnesota isn't the example to use. Thielen was top 10 in catches and top 5 in yards. He's a stud.

And Keenum is a way better QB than what we've had the last two years.
I don't think Thielen puts up those numbers with our shitty QB play.

[MOtorboat]

And Keenum is a way better QB than what we've had the last two years.
I don't think Thielen puts up those numbers with our shitty QB play.

In general team-building theory (not in any specific team case), I fully agree with Wave that a top-flight quarterback is always more important than a top-flight receiver, but that goes for every single position on the field. The quarterback is always the most important piece.

To the Broncos specifically, I just look at cap estimates and I don't see why Denver can't have both, and in addition have faith in the front office that they can make that work under the cap restraints, just like they did with Manning. I'm not convinced Cousins is that guy, but the Broncos might go that route because he's the best option.

[BroncoWave]

In general team-building theory (not in any specific team case), I fully agree with Wave that a top-flight quarterback is always more important than a top-flight receiver, but that goes for every single position on the field. The quarterback is always the most important piece.

To the Broncos specifically, I just look at cap estimates and I don't see why Denver can't have both, and in addition have faith in the front office that they can make that work under the cap restraints, just like they did with Manning. I'm not convinced Cousins is that guy, but the Broncos might go that route because he's the best option.

I mean yeah, if we can afford cousins, DT, and Sanders and still have room under the cap to fill other holes, I'm all for it. I don't know how realistic that is, but it would be great if Elway could pull it off.

[Rick]

Let's see if Keenum continues his production next year before we label him way better.

Until this year I don't think you could argue he was any better than anyone we have. He fell into a perfect system, let's see if it continues.

[Northman]

You have an argument, but Minnesota isn't the example to use. Thielen was top 10 in catches and top 5 in yards. He's a stud.

I'll hold off with the praise until he does it as long as DT has.

[Northman]

Let's see if Keenum continues his production next year before we label him way better.

Until this year I don't think you could argue he was any better than anyone we have. He fell into a perfect system, let's see if it continues.

Ecactly.

[Hawgdriver]

You have an argument, but Minnesota isn't the example to use. Thielen was top 10 in catches and top 5 in yards. He's a stud.

The highlight of the playoffs so far for me has been watching Thielen and Lattimore go at it.

[MOtorboat]

The highlight of the playoffs so far for me has been watching Thielen and Lattimore go at it.

And Jalen Ramsey doing his best Champ Bailey impression.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

You have an argument, but Minnesota isn't the example to use. Thielen was top 10 in catches and top 5 in yards. He's a stud.

....and Diggs would have had all Pro #’s if he wouldn’t have gotten hurt. I believe he was leading the league in yards before the injury.

[Cugel]

Having someone who is difficult to cover is huge, especially when you have a qb who can get the ball to them.

Gronk
Alshon Jeffrey
Stephon Diggs

The only team that doesn’t have a receiver producing at a high level is Jacksonville who is winning with defense

The problem is that neither Sanders nor DT is an elite WR any more. Both are on the downside of their careers and are overpaid. Fortunately, DT can be negotiated downward, since he won't be able to get his money elsewhere.

[turftoad]

The problem is that neither Sanders nor DT is an elite WR any more. Both are on the downside of their careers and are overpaid. Fortunately, DT can be negotiated downward, since he won't be able to get his money elsewhere.

They would probably still be elite if they had someone throwing them the stinking ball.

[Cugel]

Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Let's see if Keenum continues his production next year before we label him way better.

Until this year I don't think you could argue he was any better than anyone we have. He fell into a perfect system, let's see if it continues.

If you don't want Case Keenum, you can relax. Minnesota is going to sign him to a long term deal or franchise him. He's going nowhere after the Miracle In Minnesota and the resulting fan delirium.

They will have to release Teddy Bridgewater unless Keenum signs quickly though, and will release Sam Bradford in any case.