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WARHORSE
01-02-2018, 01:03 PM
Its his call, not mine.

But coaches who have terrible first years dont usually rebound, especially the 'ra-ra' coaches. (vs cerebral schemers, X's and O's coaches)

Here are the reasons I would CAN Joseph:


1. DeAngelo Henderson. Stood out in the preseason. The talent is SO EVIDENT. Yet, he sat on the bench. Belichick would have COACHED HIM UP in order to get him on the field EVEN IF IT WERE FOR 8 PLAYS A GAME. How stupid can you be? Grade: F minus, minus, minus.

2. McKenzie. Blame Olivo and rightly so, but at the end of the day, THE HEAD COACH oversees the team. McKenzie was a fumble machine and he continuously saw the field. Grade: F minus, minus, minus.

3. Jamaal Charles. You jerk the all time ypc leader in NFL history for fumbling yet put McKenzie out on the field. Charles ability was EASY to see. And his ability to run is obvious. Not only does he get yards, he's killer in space in the short passing game. Did you see that out of Jamaal this year? NO. An inability to recognize the abilty of players and putting them in a position to do what they do best. Grade: F minus, minus, minus

4. Defense. Underachieved. No Turnovers. Period. Grade F---

5. Von Miller. Who? Where did he get off to? Disappeared. His talent didnt leave......yet he was no where to be found. Grade: F---

6. Offensive line. A merry go round. Grade: F---

You know what? I dont even want to finish this.

No sense. We're going to have to hope Elway is right.

Put your own evidence down. Maybe he reads here.......

Valar Morghulis
01-02-2018, 02:04 PM
Agreed less the Von Miller comment, he never had the glitzy stats, or big time plays, but each game he grinded and hounded the OL and was always a threat to the QB

WARHORSE
01-02-2018, 02:31 PM
Agreed less the Von Miller comment, he never had the glitzy stats, or big time plays, but each game he grinded and hounded the OL and was always a threat to the QB

I can see that position and perspective and agree somewhat. But this is a generational talent that is not a 10 sack player. He just isnt.

Look at all the players who produced more sacks. One cant tell me that all of them are more talented or played on better teams.

NightTerror218
01-02-2018, 02:32 PM
My evaluation of your evaluation

Booker and CJ were best two RB. No question in preseason and TC. Charles barely made team. Henderson was just low man on totem pole.

Von miller had an amazing year on a bad team.

Item #2 I agree.

Defense did under achieve but offense turned ball over so much it wore them out. Also injuries/cut of ward and new DC hampered it the entire unit. But not an F grade. Give them a B and offense F.

Offensive line was set for disaster by VJ. When you drag out the positions battles through preseason it hampers the unit. OL was not decided until end of preseason. The unknown QB also did not help. But RT was horrible and that caused 90% of the problems.

NightTerror218
01-02-2018, 02:33 PM
I can see that position and perspective and agree somewhat. But this is a generational talent that is not a 10 sack player. He just isnt.

Look at all the players who produced more sacks. One cant tell me that all of them are more talented or played on better teams.

He had the most QB pressure in the league. 10 sacks. 2nd most chipped player I believe. Non existent pressure from other side did not help him either.

MOtorboat
01-02-2018, 07:35 PM
The logic of this always is baffling. Todd Davis and Brandon Marshall suck.

But let’s bag on the all-pro. Stop it.

BroncoWave
01-02-2018, 07:51 PM
The logic of this always is baffling. Todd Davis and Brandon Marshall suck.

But let’s bag on the all-pro. Stop it.

Yes how dare anyone do anything but bend over and suck off an all-pro. If you do anything but that, clearly you hate him and hope we get rid of him.

WARHORSE
01-02-2018, 07:52 PM
My evaluation of your evaluation

Booker and CJ were best two RB. No question in preseason and TC. Charles barely made team. Henderson was just low man on totem pole.

Von miller had an amazing year on a bad team.

Item #2 I agree.

Defense did under achieve but offense turned ball over so much it wore them out. Also injuries/cut of ward and new DC hampered it the entire unit. But not an F grade. Give them a B and offense F.

Offensive line was set for disaster by VJ. When you drag out the positions battles through preseason it hampers the unit. OL was not decided until end of preseason. The unknown QB also did not help. But RT was horrible and that caused 90% of the problems.

Not sure how you can say that about Booker when he played no preseason nor basically the first 6 games.
Who had the best ypc? Jamaal. Every coach in the league except ours knew that Jamaals strength is catching wheel routes and short passes in space. Did you see that? Can almost count them on one hand.

Von is an amazing player, but he did NOT have an amazing year. Not sure what tape youre watching.

Defense was put under pressure, agreed. But were 22nd in scoring. Still bad for the talent we had imo.

Who stood out in the preseason at RB? Henderson period.

Did you not see it with his touch against KC?

For me, easy to see I guess. For others not so much.

Coach the guy up.

MOtorboat
01-02-2018, 09:15 PM
Yes how dare anyone do anything but bend over and suck off an all-pro. If you do anything but that, clearly you hate him and hope we get rid of him.

I didn’t say any of that.

BroncoWave
01-02-2018, 09:28 PM
I didn’t say any of that.

You've basically echoed that sentiment in less extreme terms several times.

MOtorboat
01-02-2018, 09:32 PM
You've basically echoed that sentiment in less extreme terms several times.

I don’t understand the idea that the best player on the team is the brunt of so much criticism. I do not understand that at all. It is not a logical thought to me. I’m sorry that pisses you off so much?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-02-2018, 09:35 PM
The logic of this always is baffling. Todd Davis and Brandon Marshall suck.

But let’s bag on the all-pro. Stop it.

Brandon Marshall is an above average player. He doesn’t suck.

MOtorboat
01-02-2018, 09:36 PM
Brandon Marshall is an above average player. He doesn’t suck.

Maybe next year he’ll cover a tight end.

BroncoWave
01-02-2018, 09:36 PM
I don’t understand the idea that the best player on the team is the brunt of so much criticism. I do not understand that at all. It is not a logical thought to me. I’m sorry that pisses you off so much?

The highest paid player is going to have the highest expectations. You seem pissed off that we aren't evicerating guys like Todd Davis, but did anyone expect him to be a world beater?

Hawgdriver
01-03-2018, 12:20 AM
Maybe next year he’ll cover a tight end.

That ish is hard!

CoachChaz
01-03-2018, 12:46 AM
Hopefully for a different team.

chazoe60
01-03-2018, 12:50 AM
Brandon Marshall is an above average player. He doesn’t suck.

I disagree.

7DnBrnc53
01-03-2018, 12:52 AM
Booker and CJ were best two RB. No question in preseason and TC. Charles barely made team. Henderson was just low man on totem pole.

Booker is just a third-down pass catcher. Charles and Henderson deserved more play than they got. That's on the coaches (and maybe Elway). Also, Sloter should have been the #2 QB on opening day (and, I don't wanna hear any of that crap about needing a vet. Osweiler shouldn't have been signed. Elway probably had something to do with that).

dogfish
01-03-2018, 01:18 AM
That ish is hard!

MO grew up on the mean streets, he is a tough mother. . .

Hawgdriver
01-03-2018, 02:30 AM
MO grew up on the mean streets, he is a tough mother. . .

Tougher than covering a TE in the NFL?

Valar Morghulis
01-03-2018, 04:51 AM
Brandon Marshall has led the team in tackles for the last 15 seasons. He is second only to Wesley Woodward in all time greatness.

I have no idea what i am talking about - but i don't think Marshall sucks, he is not Luke Keuchly, but i think for the last 4/5 years he has been a solid player

MOtorboat
01-03-2018, 04:57 AM
The highest paid player is going to have the highest expectations. You seem pissed off that we aren't evicerating guys like Todd Davis, but did anyone expect him to be a world beater?

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-week-17-preview-chiefs-at-broncos


Miller is the highest-graded edge defender this season with a 95.7 overall grade, and he leads the position with a 95.1 run-defense grade. Miller tops all edge defenders with 79 total pressures, and is second with 31 run stops (plays graded as a “win” for the defense).

So, he's the highest-graded edge defender (a premium++ position) in the league. What more is he supposed to do?

DenBronx
01-03-2018, 05:50 AM
I don't think Brandon Marshall sucks....I just wish we had kept Danny Trevathan over him. Danny is a beast.

BroncoWave
01-03-2018, 06:48 AM
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-week-17-preview-chiefs-at-broncos



So, he's the highest-graded edge defender (a premium++ position) in the league. What more is he supposed to do?

I get that, but from the naked eye he didn't look as dominant this season, and a lot of people are going to base their opinion on what they watched. The advanced metrics definitely help his argument, but they still didn't equate to the type of production we're used to seeing from him on a year to year basis.

I don't know why you take it so personally when anyone is even slightly critical of one of our star players.

Broncoknight30
01-03-2018, 06:50 AM
Bill Belichick was 5-11 in his first season as coach of the Pats, and started off 0-2 in 2001 (1-3). Then Mo Lewis ruined the NFL by injuring Drew Bledsoe.

http://cdn1.bostonmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/BLEDSOE.gif

Anyway.....you all get the point. :)

Freyaka
01-03-2018, 10:23 AM
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-week-17-preview-chiefs-at-broncos



So, he's the highest-graded edge defender (a premium++ position) in the league. What more is he supposed to do?

Go to BW's home and provide him "services" apparently.

Freyaka
01-03-2018, 10:25 AM
I get that, but from the naked eye he didn't look as dominant this season, and a lot of people are going to base their opinion on what they watched. The advanced metrics definitely help his argument, but they still didn't equate to the type of production we're used to seeing from him on a year to year basis.

I don't know why you take it so personally when anyone is even slightly critical of one of our star players.

He looked fine, what was missing was the supporting cast. Look at our team in 2015 and look at Jacksonville in 2017. What do they have in common? (aside from the absurd amount of sacks)

Malik Jackson

That's what is missing in 2017. We don't have Malik collapsing the pocket and pushing the QB into the arms of the edge rusher. We need to find someone like Malik who can just destroy the pocket and keep QB's from stepping up into it. That is 100% the reason for the incorrectly perceived drop off in Miller's play.

Northman
01-03-2018, 10:33 AM
but i don't think Marshall sucks, he is not Luke Keuchly, but i think for the last 4/5 years he has been a solid player

Thats the crux of it. Marshall is a solid guy but not a difference maker which is what Denver needs. I wouldnt get rid of Marshall but he would be the kind of guy you could spell a much better LB with.

Timmy!
01-03-2018, 12:36 PM
Booker is just a third-down pass catcher.

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--6v0zmLEB--/t_Preview/b_rgb:ffffff,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1491505425/production/designs/1398827_1.jpg

7DnBrnc53
01-03-2018, 04:07 PM
https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--6v0zmLEB--/t_Preview/b_rgb:ffffff,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1491505425/production/designs/1398827_1.jpg

I don't think so. We must not be watching the same player.

FanInAZ
01-03-2018, 10:35 PM
Bill Belichick was 5-11 in his first season as coach of the Pats, and started off 0-2 in 2001 (1-3). Then Mo Lewis ruined the NFL by injuring Drew Bledsoe.

http://cdn1.bostonmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/BLEDSOE.gif

Anyway.....you all get the point. :)

You forgot to mention that he was 36-44 with the original Cleveland Brown during the last 5 years before they moved to Baltimore. And yes, Belichick has Mo Lewis to thank for opening the door for Brady, which has allowed everyone to for get how bad his coaching career was until Bledsoe got injured.

Cugel
01-04-2018, 12:19 PM
Its his call, not mine.

But coaches who have terrible first years dont usually rebound, especially the 'ra-ra' coaches. (vs cerebral schemers, X's and O's coaches)

Here are the reasons I would CAN Joseph:

1. DeAngelo Henderson. Stood out in the preseason. The talent is SO EVIDENT. Yet, he sat on the bench. Belichick would have COACHED HIM UP in order to get him on the field EVEN IF IT WERE FOR 8 PLAYS A GAME. How stupid can you be? Grade: F minus, minus, minus.

2. McKenzie. Blame Olivo and rightly so, but at the end of the day, THE HEAD COACH oversees the team. McKenzie was a fumble machine and he continuously saw the field. Grade: F minus, minus, minus.

3. Jamaal Charles. You jerk the all time ypc leader in NFL history for fumbling yet put McKenzie out on the field. Charles ability was EASY to see. And his ability to run is obvious. Not only does he get yards, he's killer in space in the short passing game. Did you see that out of Jamaal this year? NO. An inability to recognize the abilty of players and putting them in a position to do what they do best. Grade: F minus, minus, minus

4. Defense. Underachieved. No Turnovers. Period. Grade F---

5. Von Miller. Who? Where did he get off to? Disappeared. His talent didnt leave......yet he was no where to be found. Grade: F---

6. Offensive line. A merry go round. Grade: F---

You know what? I dont even want to finish this.

No sense. We're going to have to hope Elway is right.

Put your own evidence down. Maybe he reads here.......

Some of this was warranted. What was the point of keeping Jamaal Charles on this roster if they weren't going to use him at all? He fumbled in KC and they sat him on the bench the rest of the season?

Brock Olivo should have been fired about week 4 after McKenzie's second or third fumble.

Vance Joseph admitted in his presser that he failed to coach his coaches enough. Olivo kept putting McKenzie out there week after week, and he kept fumbling and the press was going berserk and the fans were booing . . . . and nothing changed. That imbecile kept on trotting him out there. And VJ did nothing to prevent it until far too late.

DeAngelo Henderson did look good in the pre-season - against guys who are working at Home Depot right now and checking their text messages to see if their agent has called. That means nothing.

A FAN's opinion about what is "obvious" isn't worth much. Apparently he didn't know the play-book and was a liability in pass protection. Or something. All that meant is that he wasn't ready.

This was another coaching failure which fully justified firing Mike McCoy. He failed to make use of the players he was given. The Broncos were simply not on the same page.

Elway and the front office were drafting players. VJ was coaching the overall team, and Mike McCoy was running his own offensive system without any reference whatever to what the plan was or why guys were drafted, etc. He had HIS players whom he wanted and the rest were Elway's players he tolerated but didn't trust.

Only his way didn't work because he didn't have an elite QB like Philip Rivers, he had the stiff and the two Giraffes. The offense couldn't get out of its own way.

Elway was right not to want McCoy on the team. That was a Vance Joseph mistake.

Cugel
01-04-2018, 12:23 PM
As for Von Miller any criticism is just flat wrong. Pro-football focus had him as the NFL's #1 pass rusher again. He was constantly double and triple teamed because Shane Ray had the hand injury and contributed nothing this year, Shaqil Barrett is a stiff and there has been no inside pressure since Malik Jackson left. Oh, and they lost a TON of leadership on defense when DeMarcus Ware retired.

Von Miller was one of the few bright spots on the team last year. He can't do it all himself.

Cugel
01-04-2018, 12:30 PM
Booker is just a third-down pass catcher. Charles and Henderson deserved more play than they got. That's on the coaches (and maybe Elway). Also, Sloter should have been the #2 QB on opening day (and, I don't wanna hear any of that crap about needing a vet. Osweiler shouldn't have been signed. Elway probably had something to do with that).

Sloter was just a long term project, and not a particularly great one either. A bunch of homer fans got all excited about his performance against stiffs in meaningless exhibition games. He doesn't have any future as a starter in MN and he wouldn't have had a future here in any event.

Supposedly he sucked in practice against the first team defense in practices that were not open to the public. But, by then all the fan-boys had this ridiculous desire for Kyle Sloter.

Next year it will be Chad "the Gunslinger" Kelly, who has . . . . a great name but probably no future as a star in the NFL. And when the Broncos ship him off to Cleveland to disappear there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth among the fans. Which Elway will ignore, because you can't argue with stupid.

If you want to criticize Elway and VJ criticize them for ever thinking that Trevor Siemian could be a franchise QB in this league. And criticize Elway for drafting Paxton Lynch too. In retrospect they should just have released him after it was apparent he couldn't win the starting job from a 7th round journeyman QB in Siemian.

Hawgdriver
01-04-2018, 12:33 PM
A FAN's opinion about what is "obvious" isn't worth much.

This is why it surprises me that you produce so much content, your self-awareness.

Timmy!
01-04-2018, 01:06 PM
This is why it surprises me that you produce so much content, your self-awareness.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ShamelessDelayedBinturong-max-1mb.gif

Northman
01-04-2018, 01:07 PM
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GenerousGratefulIcelandicsheepdog-max-1mb.gif

Timmy!
01-04-2018, 01:09 PM
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GenerousGratefulIcelandicsheepdog-max-1mb.gif

Live cam footage of Cugel vs joel?

7DnBrnc53
01-04-2018, 01:40 PM
Sloter was just a long term project, and not a particularly great one either. A bunch of homer fans got all excited about his performance against stiffs in meaningless exhibition games. He doesn't have any future as a starter in MN and he wouldn't have had a future here in any event.

Supposedly he sucked in practice against the first team defense in practices that were not open to the public. But, by then all the fan-boys had this ridiculous desire for Kyle Sloter.

Next year it will be Chad "the Gunslinger" Kelly, who has . . . . a great name but probably no future as a star in the NFL. And when the Broncos ship him off to Cleveland to disappear there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth among the fans. Which Elway will ignore, because you can't argue with stupid.

If you want to criticize Elway and VJ criticize them for ever thinking that Trevor Siemian could be a franchise QB in this league. And criticize Elway for drafting Paxton Lynch too. In retrospect they should just have released him after it was apparent he couldn't win the starting job from a 7th round journeyman QB in Siemian.

Supposedly is the key word. How do we know he really did? I love how people just write Sloter off when it's clear that the Broncos didn't have anything better at QB this year.

MOtorboat
01-04-2018, 01:42 PM
Supposedly is the key word. How do we know he really did? I love how people just write Sloter off when it's clear that the Broncos didn't have anything better at QB this year.

A lot of quarterbacks have sucked against Denver's first-team defense the last five years.

Cugel
01-04-2018, 03:11 PM
This is why it surprises me that you produce so much content, your self-awareness.

I have no opinion about Kyle Sloter. I thought he looked good in the pre-season and was surprised they cut him. So, I paid attention to sports writers who asked that very question to Broncos front office staff and this is what they were told: Sloter didn't look that good in closed practices. He was basically very raw and about what you'd expect from a 7th round pick. In short a long-shot developmental guy.

So, I mention this in a post on these boards and get flamed for it. Fine. Take your shots.

Except that the opinions expressed were not MINE, but those of the coaching staff who didn't want Kyle Sloter and don't care about him and were frankly amused at all the fan adulation for a marginal player who, they think, will never be anything much in the NFL.

I don't know if they are right of course, but the Vikings don't seem to think much of Sloter. They are trying to decide whether Teddy Bridgewater or Case Keenum is their starter and whether to keep Sam Bradford as a backup. Not much room for Sloter there to be honest.

Cugel
01-04-2018, 03:16 PM
Quote Originally Posted by 7DnBrnc53 View Post
Supposedly is the key word. How do we know he really did? I love how people just write Sloter off when it's clear that the Broncos didn't have anything better at QB this year.


A lot of fans are still butt-hurt about Sloter for some weird reason. Just because Trevor and Paxton and Osweiler sucked doesn't mean that Sloter would be a viable #2 QB. He had zero NFL starting experience.

People seem confused by the whole Sloter release, so I posted here their reasons.

Now you say "how did they know?" etc. I give up. I would rather have Sloter on the roster than Paxton, but neither is really any use.

If you want to rip the Broncos coaching staff and John Elway fine. IT's just weird throwing in a nonsense criticism amid other valid criticism.

They did a lot wrong. Letting Kyle Sloter go was probably not one of their faults.

Ziggy
01-04-2018, 03:43 PM
Von was a beast this season. He constantly fought against double and triple teams and still was a big factor in games.....against both the run and the pass. Let's not forget about the clueless defensive coordinator who tried to switch a man pressure team to a conservative zone D. There was no scheming to get Von better looks. There was very little blitzing until the second half of the season.

Von got the shaft and still performed like a superstar without once complaining. I miss Wade.

dogfish
01-04-2018, 03:49 PM
Von was a beast this season. He constantly fought against double and triple teams and still was a big factor in games.....against both the run and the pass. Let's not forget about the clueless defensive coordinator who tried to switch a man pressure team to a conservative zone D. There was no scheming to get Von better looks. There was very little blitzing until the second half of the season.

Von got the shaft and still performed like a superstar without once complaining. I miss Wade.

absolutely. . . joe woods is the dope who doesn't know how to generate pressure with scheme. . . it's a joke that they fired fred pagac for woods' shortcomings. . .

Freyaka
01-04-2018, 04:11 PM
absolutely. . . joe woods is the dope who doesn't know how to generate pressure with scheme. . . it's a joke that they fired fred pagac for woods' shortcomings. . .

Wade was struggling with it in 2016 too just not as noticeably. The issue is that we need someone collapsing the pocket in the middle. I've been harping on that for awhile now. All a QB has to do to avoid Von is step up into the clean pocket and life is well again.

NightTerror218
01-04-2018, 04:27 PM
Wade was struggling with it in 2016 too just not as noticeably. The issue is that we need someone collapsing the pocket in the middle. I've been harping on that for awhile now. All a QB has to do to avoid Von is step up into the clean pocket and life is well again.

Harris has stepped up in the middle. But where we Wolfe this year?

dogfish
01-04-2018, 04:39 PM
Wade was struggling with it in 2016 too just not as noticeably. The issue is that we need someone collapsing the pocket in the middle. I've been harping on that for awhile now. All a QB has to do to avoid Von is step up into the clean pocket and life is well again.

in 2016, we finished third in the league in sacks, with 42. . . i wouldn't say wade was struggling with it. . . sure, our pass rush wasn't other-worldly, like 2015. . . that's to be expected when ware misses half the season, and you lose a disruptive interior rusher like malik jackson. . . even so, we had one of the best pass rushes in the league. . .

by contrast, this year we finished 22nd in sacks, with 33. . . and had fewer interceptions, much less pressure, and probably worse numbers more or less across the board (3rd down %, etc). . .

the rams were 4th in the league in sacks, with 48. . . last year, they were 24th in the league, with 31 sacks. . . wade knows what the hell he is doing when it comes to generating pressure, and putting his guys in position to accentuate their strengths. . . joe woods clearly does not. . . our loss. . .

Freyaka
01-04-2018, 04:58 PM
Harris has stepped up in the middle. But where we Wolfe this year?

Wolfe benefited from Malik the exact same way Von did.

Hawgdriver
01-04-2018, 05:54 PM
I have no opinion about Kyle Sloter. I thought he looked good in the pre-season and was surprised they cut him. So, I paid attention to sports writers who asked that very question to Broncos front office staff and this is what they were told: Sloter didn't look that good in closed practices.

Even if that one little supposed media tidbit is a truthful opinion of someone within the Broncos organization ("sloter didn't look good")--what makes that opinion at all credible given the current Broncos QB situation and lack of long-term prospects in the building?

And why are these supposedly more knowledgeable sports writers now lamenting Sloter's dismissal?

Hawgdriver
01-04-2018, 05:56 PM
It should go without having to say it that Sloter is unlikely to become an NFL QB, but given the near certainty that the three QBs who started games this season have zero chance of heading a franchise, Sloter is the more attractive candidate to keep on a roster.

MOtorboat
01-04-2018, 07:12 PM
Even if that one little supposed media tidbit is a truthful opinion of someone within the Broncos organization ("sloter didn't look good")--what makes that opinion at all credible given the current Broncos QB situation and lack of long-term prospects in the building?

And why are these supposedly more knowledgeable sports writers now lamenting Sloter's dismissal?

I think one of the ultimate question marks, that may never get answered, with this season, is why this supposed practice field stuff couldn't transfer to the field and why stuff that appeared to work on the field either wasn't practiced (Not giving Henderson any run, practice or real, and cutting Sloter, despite some success, albeit preseason success)?

Is this, what is in practice, how practice is conducted, how coaches react in the heat of the moment with scheme? Is it a talent evaluation problem (what I would lean to)? On top of the talent evaluation, is it at the roster building level (GM) or at the suited-up 53 level (coaching)?

Hawgdriver
01-04-2018, 07:50 PM
I think one of the ultimate question marks, that may never get answered, with this season, is why this supposed practice field stuff couldn't transfer to the field and why stuff that appeared to work on the field either wasn't practiced (Not giving Henderson any run, practice or real, and cutting Sloter, despite some success, albeit preseason success)?

Is this, what is in practice, how practice is conducted, how coaches react in the heat of the moment with scheme? Is it a talent evaluation problem (what I would lean to)? On top of the talent evaluation, is it at the roster building level (GM) or at the suited-up 53 level (coaching)?

Comments made by Talib and Wolfe hint at roster construction issues. Talib used the expression 'the hand that VJ was dealt'. Wolfe spent some time talking about rookie entitlement syndrome in a recent interview--something that Sloter didn't seem to have a problem with :lol:. Gotta catch that during the talent evaluation window before the draft. Kubiak may help but it would be nice to bring in a more divergent (less inbred) perspective into the GM section. And really, so much stems from the offensive woes--QB being the central one, but a weak offensive line being similarly destructive. Roster.

Why didn't 'the process' translate to results?

Too many blind spots in the process. The chief example VJ already confessed--he wasn't enough of an a$$**** to his coaches--complacency and lack of leadership. He gave McCoy and Olivo too much rope. I can think of other blind spots, but I'm starting to feel pedantic.

VJ better put in some better rear view mirrors next season!

Broncoknight30
01-05-2018, 05:07 AM
in 2016, we finished third in the league in sacks, with 42. . . i wouldn't say wade was struggling with it. . . sure, our pass rush wasn't other-worldly, like 2015. . . that's to be expected when ware misses half the season, and you lose a disruptive interior rusher like malik jackson. . . even so, we had one of the best pass rushes in the league. . .

by contrast, this year we finished 22nd in sacks, with 33. . . and had fewer interceptions, much less pressure, and probably worse numbers more or less across the board (3rd down %, etc). . .

the rams were 4th in the league in sacks, with 48. . . last year, they were 24th in the league, with 31 sacks. . . wade knows what the hell he is doing when it comes to generating pressure, and putting his guys in position to accentuate their strengths. . . joe woods clearly does not. . . our loss. . .

This defense diminished, while the Rams defense greatly improved from the year before.

For instance.....

Broncos defense in 2017 33 sacks. 22nd in the NFL

Rams defense in 2017 48 sacks. 4th in the NFL

As compared to.....

Broncos defense in 2016 42 sacks. 3rd in the NFL

Rams defense in 2016 31 sacks. 24h in the NFL.

Same basic talent.

Lets go to turn overs.

2017 Broncos defense forced 8 fumbles. 31st in the NFL.

2017 Rams defense forced 17 fumbles. 8th in the NFL.

2017 Broncos defense had 10 ints. 24th in the NFL

2017 Rams defense had 18 ints. 6th in the NFL.

As compared to......

2016 Broncos defense forced 17 fumbles and recovered 13. 4th in the NFL

2016 Rams defense forced forced 13 fumbles and recovered 8. 19th in the NFL

2016 Broncos defense had 14 ints. 12th in the NFL

2016 Rams defense had 10 ints. 23rd in the NFL.


Not mention points given up. I know there were a number of punt returns and int returns that added to those points. You get the point.

The Rams defense defense improved significantly in ever major category, while the Broncos defense got worse in every major category.

I wonder Why.

NightTerror218
01-05-2018, 01:18 PM
This defense diminished, while the Rams defense greatly improved from the year before.

For instance.....

Broncos defense in 2017 33 sacks. 22nd in the NFL

Rams defense in 2017 48 sacks. 4th in the NFL

As compared to.....

Broncos defense in 2016 42 sacks. 3rd in the NFL

Rams defense in 2016 31 sacks. 24h in the NFL.

Same basic talent.

Lets go to turn overs.

2017 Broncos defense forced 8 fumbles. 31st in the NFL.

2017 Rams defense forced 17 fumbles. 8th in the NFL.

2017 Broncos defense had 10 ints. 24th in the NFL

2017 Rams defense had 18 ints. 6th in the NFL.

As compared to......

2016 Broncos defense forced 17 fumbles and recovered 13. 4th in the NFL

2016 Rams defense forced forced 13 fumbles and recovered 8. 19th in the NFL

2016 Broncos defense had 14 ints. 12th in the NFL

2016 Rams defense had 10 ints. 23rd in the NFL.


Not mention points given up. I know there were a number of punt returns and int returns that added to those points. You get the point.

The Rams defense defense improved significantly in ever major category, while the Broncos defense got worse in every major category.

I wonder Why.

That is cherry picking 2 of the worse categories for the Broncos defense. Besides top 5 in passing yards rushing yards and total yards, 3rd down completion. Below are some defensive ranking. With sacks, points allowed and TO as the worst categories


2017 Broncos defense
#3 total defense
#4 passing defense
#5 rushing defense
T#2 3rd down conversion defense

2017 rams defense
#19 total defense
#13 passing defense
#28 rushing defense
T#13 2rd down conversion

dogfish
01-05-2018, 01:35 PM
comparing sack numbers is "cherry-picking" when talking about pass rush?

okaaaaay. . . :lol:

Broncoknight30
01-05-2018, 01:54 PM
That is cherry picking 2 of the worse categories for the Broncos defense. Besides top 5 in passing yards rushing yards and total yards, 3rd down completion. Below are some defensive ranking. With sacks, points allowed and TO as the worst categories


2017 Broncos defense
#3 total defense
#4 passing defense
#5 rushing defense
T#2 3rd down conversion defense

2017 rams defense
#19 total defense
#13 passing defense
#28 rushing defense
T#13 2rd down conversion

A lot of those numbers are relative based on being blown out etc.

The bread and butter under this defense under Philips (all Philips defenses) were turnovers generated.

The Rams defense in 2016 were at the bottom in all of those categories and yes sacks too.

The Broncos in 2016 were in top half along with 2015. Now, they are in the bottom half of the league in those categories and the Rams are at the top.

There is a trend. The fact is the Rams defense is significantly acsending and I dont think it is a coincidence that it is with Philips.

Northman
01-05-2018, 02:00 PM
It does help a whole lot when your offense can score 30+ points every game. Denver's defense was put into HORRIBLE situations all year long.

Broncoknight30
01-05-2018, 06:45 PM
It does help a whole lot when your offense can score 30+ points every game. Denver's defense was put into HORRIBLE situations all year long.

The scary part is Peyton Manning performed worse in 2015 than any QB the roster this year. 9 TDs, to 17ints 33rd ranked QB and the Broncos were 1 for 14 on 3rd downs breaking the SB record for 3rd down ineptitude. The Broncos only TD in 50 was a 4 yard drive and they needed a PI call with a fresh set of downs to get it.

They beat Roethlisberger, Brady, and the league MVP Newton.

Yeah, that was a special defense that produced a lot of sacks and a lot of turnovers.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-05-2018, 06:49 PM
This defense diminished, while the Rams defense greatly improved from the year before.

For instance.....

Broncos defense in 2017 33 sacks. 22nd in the NFL

Rams defense in 2017 48 sacks. 4th in the NFL

As compared to.....

Broncos defense in 2016 42 sacks. 3rd in the NFL

Rams defense in 2016 31 sacks. 24h in the NFL.

Same basic talent.

Lets go to turn overs.

2017 Broncos defense forced 8 fumbles. 31st in the NFL.

2017 Rams defense forced 17 fumbles. 8th in the NFL.

2017 Broncos defense had 10 ints. 24th in the NFL

2017 Rams defense had 18 ints. 6th in the NFL.

As compared to......

2016 Broncos defense forced 17 fumbles and recovered 13. 4th in the NFL

2016 Rams defense forced forced 13 fumbles and recovered 8. 19th in the NFL

2016 Broncos defense had 14 ints. 12th in the NFL

2016 Rams defense had 10 ints. 23rd in the NFL.


Not mention points given up. I know there were a number of punt returns and int returns that added to those points. You get the point.

The Rams defense defense improved significantly in ever major category, while the Broncos defense got worse in every major category.

I wonder Why.

It’s not the same basic talent. We had Ware and Ray providing pressure opposite of Von in 16’. We didn’t have that in 17’.

Broncoknight30
01-05-2018, 07:13 PM
It’s not the same basic talent. We had Ware and Ray providing pressure opposite of Von in 16’. We didn’t have that in 17’.

The Rams defense is improving. They dont have Von Miller Talib, Chris Harris etc.

The point is the Broncos were in the bottom of the league in turnovers and sacks. Under Philips they were at the top.

The Rams last year were at the bottom in sacks and turnovers.

This year under Philips, they are at the top of the league.

Cugel
01-06-2018, 06:47 PM
Even if that one little supposed media tidbit is a truthful opinion of someone within the Broncos organization ("sloter didn't look good")--what makes that opinion at all credible given the current Broncos QB situation and lack of long-term prospects in the building?

And why are these supposedly more knowledgeable sports writers now lamenting Sloter's dismissal?


#1 They are NOT lamenting Sloter's dismissal. Every former player and analyst I've heard ridicules the Broncos fans for obsessing about a marginal long-shot player like Kyle Sloter.

#2 Why would this info be credible? Well, why do you THINK the Broncos cut Sloter? Because they didn't like his name? "Sloter. Rhymes with boater. Get rid of him!" ?

The media was bombarded by the fans with "OMG! Why oh why did they cut Kyle Sloter!?" So, they asked Broncos insiders. That was the reported reason. He sucked in practices and they regarded him as a long-term prospect, and they already had a long-term prospect in Paxton Lynch they spent a 1st round pick on, while Sloter was a 7th rounder they didn't particularly value.

What reason did you think they did it? :confused:

Cugel
01-06-2018, 06:52 PM
The Rams defense is improving. They dont have Von Miller Talib, Chris Harris etc.

The point is the Broncos were in the bottom of the league in turnovers and sacks. Under Philips they were at the top.

The Rams last year were at the bottom in sacks and turnovers.

This year under Philips, they are at the top of the league.

In 2016 they still had HOF DeMarcus Ware on the roster. He was limited because of his back, but his leadership was enormous. No way Talib would have acted out like he did this year if DeMarcus was still around.

In 2016 Shane Ray was healthy so even when Ware wasn't in the game the Broncos had two legit pass rushers. It wasn't as good as in 2015 when Malik Jackson's inside pressure made it possible for Von Miller to terrorize QBs, but it was pretty good.

This year, no Ware and no Ray meant no pass rush outside Von. And you can always double and triple team one guy and roll protections away from him. So, he had an incredible year, and only got 12 sacks.

MOtorboat
01-06-2018, 06:59 PM
#1 They are NOT lamenting Sloter's dismissal. Every former player and analyst I've heard ridicules the Broncos fans for obsessing about a marginal long-shot player like Kyle Sloter.

#2 Why would this info be credible? Well, why do you THINK the Broncos cut Sloter? Because they didn't like his name? "Sloter. Rhymes with boater. Get rid of him!" ?

The media was bombarded by the fans with "OMG! Why oh why did they cut Kyle Sloter!?" So, they asked Broncos insiders. That was the reported reason. He sucked in practices and they regarded him as a long-term prospect, and they already had a long-term prospect in Paxton Lynch they spent a 1st round pick on, while Sloter was a 7th rounder they didn't particularly value.

What reason did you think they did it? :confused:

Because up to this point they suck dick at evaluating quarterbacks.

Broncoknight30
01-06-2018, 06:59 PM
In 2016 they still had HOF DeMarcus Ware on the roster. He was limited because of his back, but his leadership was enormous. No way Talib would have acted out like he did this year if DeMarcus was still around.

In 2016 Shane Ray was healthy so even when Ware wasn't in the game the Broncos had two legit pass rushers. It wasn't as good as in 2015 when Malik Jackson's inside pressure made it possible for Von Miller to terrorize QBs, but it was pretty good.

This year, no Ware and no Ray meant no pass rush outside Von. And you can always double and triple team one guy and roll protections away from him. So, he had an incredible year, and only got 12 sacks.

Who did THE RAMS add that made their defense rise in all of those categories?

Cugel
01-07-2018, 01:51 AM
Because up to this point they suck dick at evaluating quarterbacks.

OK. YOu think they were wrong to release Kyle Sloter. But, I answered the question: "why did they release him?" Because they thought he was a marginal player.

You believe that you know more than them after watching him in the pre-season. If he emerges in MN as a star QB somehow, then you'd be right.

That does not appear it will happen.

Cugel
01-07-2018, 01:53 AM
Who did THE RAMS add that made their defense rise in all of those categories?

Are you arguing that keeping Wade would have been better? Perhaps so, but this defense ain't close to the 2015 defense and that's due to the loss of key players from 2015: Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan (who played great for the Titans today), Ware and TJ Ward. That's 40% of their starters from that SB game gone.

It's just not the same defense any more. And if, as expected, they cut or trade Aqib Talib it will be even less like the 2015 defense.

Ground Control
01-07-2018, 01:58 AM
Its his call, not mine.

But coaches who have terrible first years dont usually rebound, especially the 'ra-ra' coaches. (vs cerebral schemers, X's and O's coaches)

Here are the reasons I would CAN Joseph:


1. DeAngelo Henderson. Stood out in the preseason. The talent is SO EVIDENT. Yet, he sat on the bench. Belichick would have COACHED HIM UP in order to get him on the field EVEN IF IT WERE FOR 8 PLAYS A GAME. How stupid can you be? Grade: F minus, minus, minus.

2. McKenzie. Blame Olivo and rightly so, but at the end of the day, THE HEAD COACH oversees the team. McKenzie was a fumble machine and he continuously saw the field. Grade: F minus, minus, minus.

3. Jamaal Charles. You jerk the all time ypc leader in NFL history for fumbling yet put McKenzie out on the field. Charles ability was EASY to see. And his ability to run is obvious. Not only does he get yards, he's killer in space in the short passing game. Did you see that out of Jamaal this year? NO. An inability to recognize the abilty of players and putting them in a position to do what they do best. Grade: F minus, minus, minus

4. Defense. Underachieved. No Turnovers. Period. Grade F---

5. Von Miller. Who? Where did he get off to? Disappeared. His talent didnt leave......yet he was no where to be found. Grade: F---

6. Offensive line. A merry go round. Grade: F---

You know what? I dont even want to finish this.

No sense. We're going to have to hope Elway is right.

Put your own evidence down. Maybe he reads here.......

First: Love your pic. The Death Dealer series was the shit and Frazetta is a god.

I do totally disagree about Miller. I have seen nothing this year that he was used any differently than in years past. He has been schemed by apposing coaches and continuously double and triple teamed. With all of that, he's still an all pro and leader in the NFL in all categories relevant to edge rushers.

Otherwise, yep.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-08-2018, 07:21 PM
#1 They are NOT lamenting Sloter's dismissal. Every former player and analyst I've heard ridicules the Broncos fans for obsessing about a marginal long-shot player like Kyle Sloter.

#2 Why would this info be credible? Well, why do you THINK the Broncos cut Sloter? Because they didn't like his name? "Sloter. Rhymes with boater. Get rid of him!" ?

The media was bombarded by the fans with "OMG! Why oh why did they cut Kyle Sloter!?" So, they asked Broncos insiders. That was the reported reason. He sucked in practices and they regarded him as a long-term prospect, and they already had a long-term prospect in Paxton Lynch they spent a 1st round pick on, while Sloter was a 7th rounder they didn't particularly value.

What reason did you think they did it? :confused:

Sloter is a better prospect than Lynch

MOtorboat
01-08-2018, 07:24 PM
OK. YOu think they were wrong to release Kyle Sloter. But, I answered the question: "why did they release him?" Because they thought he was a marginal player.

You believe that you know more than them after watching him in the pre-season. If he emerges in MN as a star QB somehow, then you'd be right.

That does not appear it will happen.

You asked why he was released. I answered your question. They released him because they clearly suck dick at quarterback evaluation. Their seventh round pick was better than their first round pick and their UDFA might have been better than all of them!

It's been an absolute disaster in scouting and development. I wish they could somehow apply their defensive line magic to quarterback.

Cugel
01-08-2018, 09:36 PM
Sloter is a better prospect than Lynch

I'd agree. Elway does not, and frankly, neither of them is likely to ever become full time starters in the NFL. Give it a rest Sloter Fan.

Cugel
01-08-2018, 09:37 PM
You asked why he was released. I answered your question. They released him because they clearly suck dick at quarterback evaluation.

This presupposes that you are right and they are wrong about Sloter.

Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence. Sloter might never become anything at all, in which case he would NOT be a better prospect than Lynch. He would be the same: worthless.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-08-2018, 09:43 PM
I'd agree. Elway does not, and frankly, neither of them is likely to ever become full time starters in the NFL. Give it a rest Sloter Fan.

You might be right, although fan shouldn’t be capitalized. I haven’t joined any formal groups

Cugel
01-08-2018, 09:45 PM
You might be right, although fan shouldn’t be capitalized. I haven’t joined any formal groups

Looks to outsiders as though you have.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-08-2018, 09:48 PM
Looks to outsiders as though you have.
You mean the tens of unregistered users who browse the forum throughout the year?

MOtorboat
01-09-2018, 05:16 AM
This presupposes that you are right and they are wrong about Sloter.

Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence. Sloter might never become anything at all, in which case he would NOT be a better prospect than Lynch. He would be the same: worthless.

Luckily, this isn't a court of law, so none of this nonsense is valid.

They failed miserably at evaluating quarterbacks the last three seasons. It should have behooved them to try out the UDFA for the hell of it as the first round kid can't learn the offense (reportedly) because he's not cut out for learning offenses and the 7th round pick is injury prone and folded like a book with a little bit of pressure (which anyone who watched the end of last season with any sort of critical eye already knew).

There is almost no doubt that letting Sloter go for really no reason at all, with a question mark at starter and the backup hurt, was the wrong move.

slim
01-09-2018, 07:41 AM
Because up to this point they suck dick at evaluating quarterbacks.

Why are you always talking about dick?

Cugel
01-09-2018, 11:38 AM
You asked why he was released. I answered your question. They released him because they clearly suck dick at quarterback evaluation. Their seventh round pick was better than their first round pick and their UDFA might have been better than all of them!

It's been an absolute disaster in scouting and development. I wish they could somehow apply their defensive line magic to quarterback.

In Elway's defense, not that he needs it, it's not easy to find a franchise QB which is why 10-12 teams every single year are desperately looking over all the rejects and has-beens and never-were's asking themselves "is this the guy? Am I missing somebody here?"

Elway tried to find a QB on the cheap in 2012 because he had Peyton Manning and needed a long term replacement: Osweiler. He was the #56 pick of the 2nd round, and very few NFL Qbs are drafted that late. You can count the number of successes on the fingers of one hand practically: Warner, Brady, Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott (maybe), Tony Romo (although he never led Dallas anywhere near the SB).

Sometimes a QB falls through the cracks and nobody drafts him in the first round, but he subsequently becomes a good to great QB.

It happens the way that occasionally somebody beats the house in Vegas for a boat-load of cash. People believing that THEY are going to beat the odds is why Vegas is able to build billion dollar casinos, however.

The problem in the NFL is getting rather like basketball: you either have Stepf Curry, or LeBron or you don't. For those 28 teams that don't: you have no chance. It's not that bad in the NFL, yet, but they keep changing the rules to favor the QBs, which makes an elite Hall of Fame QB more valuable than ever, yet there are only 4 or 5 QBs like that in the entire league, and probably NONE in this year's draft, or in FA either.

So, teams are looking for bargains and not finding very many. Robert Kraft ordered Belichick to get rid of Garapolo because Brady was butt-hurt having him around, so Belichick dumped him on SF for a 2nd rounder, without bothering to negotiate and get a first rounder, which he could have done. But, that doesn't happen very often either.

Cugel
01-09-2018, 11:44 AM
Then, Elway tried drafting Paxton, who turned out to be a bust. They should have drafted Prescott in the 3rd round. But, think what you are saying criticizing Elway for this! 31 other NFL GMs passed on Prescott too, twice! Nobody in the NFL thought he was a starting caliber player or they would have drafted him ahead of Christian Hackenberg, Jacoby Brissett, Cody Kessler, or Connor Cook. And nobody did that.

He was drafted 4 picks ahead of Ohio State QB Cardale Jones, taken #138 of the 4th by the Browns and the Browns are not planning on starting Cardale Jones either. That's what NFL GMs thought of Prescott.

So, sometimes somebody falls, but it's hard to identify the right guy.

dogfish
01-09-2018, 12:22 PM
There is almost no doubt that letting Sloter go for really no reason at all, with a question mark at starter and the backup hurt, was the wrong move.

lynch's busted ass wasn't even available to play 'til like week 8 or 9 or whatever. . . there's no question they should have put him on IR, and kept sloter. . .

Broncoknight30
01-09-2018, 01:31 PM
lynch's busted ass wasn't even available to play 'til like week 8 or 9 or whatever. . . there's no question they should have put him on IR, and kept sloter. . .

The sloter issue is all about an issue that we are not really qualified to answer. Certainly not me. Whether or not this league has a hard cap or not, there will always be financial considerations. Especially with certain owners. Now, with the hard cap, it is especially so. Most of us have no real clue how much of a priority it is.

Sloter, never had a chance. Not on any team, and neither does any undrafted QB. Sloter was told that, and they meant that. Hence the reason if the Broncos draft a first round QB again this year, that will be it for any real shot for Kelly. Yes, a 7th rounder is for all intents and purposes a walk on.

Our frustration when they let him go for Osweiler was the fact that all we had were known quantities. Especially Osweiler. However, I strongly believe Elway wanted an excuse to get rid of Sloter mainly because he wanted to shut the chants for Sloter down.

He never had a shot here, and the economic reality of the league and this franchise are the reasons.

Hawgdriver
01-09-2018, 05:47 PM
The sloter issue is all about an issue that we are not really qualified to answer. Certainly not me. Whether or not this league has a hard cap or not, there will always be financial considerations. Especially with certain owners. Now, with the hard cap, it is especially so. Most of us have no real clue how much of a priority it is.

Sloter, never had a chance. Not on any team, and neither does any undrafted QB. Sloter was told that, and they meant that. Hence the reason if the Broncos draft a first round QB again this year, that will be it for any real shot for Kelly. Yes, a 7th rounder is for all intents and purposes a walk on.

Our frustration when they let him go for Osweiler was the fact that all we had were known quantities. Especially Osweiler. However, I strongly believe Elway wanted an excuse to get rid of Sloter mainly because he wanted to shut the chants for Sloter down.

He never had a shot here, and the economic reality of the league and this franchise are the reasons.

Which is utter bullshit if any team puts money ahead of winning. You want to lose me as a fan? Then do this kind of BS.

Broncoknight30
01-09-2018, 06:03 PM
Which is utter bullshit if any team puts money ahead of winning. You want to lose me as a fan? Then do this kind of BS.

Yes, and that is why i have grown more and more disillusioned with the NFL.

That may be the wrong word. The financial reality is what it is and it is not going to change.

Cugel
01-11-2018, 06:31 PM
lynch's busted ass wasn't even available to play 'til like week 8 or 9 or whatever. . . there's no question they should have put him on IR, and kept sloter. . .

You don't really think he was that hurt do you? That was their excuse for not putting him on the field because he was "not ready" which is a euphemism for "he still sucks." But, it's nice and polite to pretend you believe he will ever "be ready."

He was healthy enough to play before he did. I high ankle sprain doesn't take three months to heal.

Broncoknight30
01-11-2018, 07:08 PM
You don't really think he was that hurt do you? That was their excuse for not putting him on the field because he was "not ready" which is a euphemism for "he still sucks." But, it's nice and polite to pretend you believe he will ever "be ready."

He was healthy enough to play before he did. I high ankle sprain doesn't take three months to heal.

Yeah, and Luck's "shoulder."

I am reading around the league that the Colts are not an attractive place as many may have thought and Luck is the reason. In other words, he really is not as good as many fans think, and he is sure taking up A LOT OF CAP ROOM.

Several coaching prospects have turned the Colts down.

Cugel
01-11-2018, 08:04 PM
Sloter, never had a chance. Not on any team, and neither does any undrafted QB. Sloter was told that, and they meant that. Hence the reason if the Broncos draft a first round QB again this year, that will be it for any real shot for Kelly. Yes, a 7th rounder is for all intents and purposes a walk on.

Our frustration when they let him go for Osweiler was the fact that all we had were known quantities. Especially Osweiler. However, I strongly believe Elway wanted an excuse to get rid of Sloter mainly because he wanted to shut the chants for Sloter down.

He never had a shot here, and the economic reality of the league and this franchise are the reasons.

It's more than that. NFL scouts are seldom THAT wrong about a QB. How many 7th round QBs are stars in this league. I can't think of one! Tyrod Taylor was a 7th rounder, and he's proven he can be a mediocre starter.

But does anybody think Tyrod Taylor will ever lead a team to a SB? Me neither. He's just like Trevor - a 7th round pick who exceeded the very limited expectations of all NFL scouts and GMs. That's all.

Sloter is the same. He's a marginal player who will spend his time in the NFL as a scout team QB until he's replaced by some other scrub.

This is not some conspiracy. Teams are not ignoring the amazing ability of Kyle Sloter. He's just not very good.

And the fact that the Broncos were wrong about Paxton does not invalidate this at all. Paxton has a lot more athletic talent than Kyle Sloter ever dreamed of. But, when they gave him the chance he proved he couldn't learn the system or how to read NFL defenses. Sloter was never given that chance. He played in the pre-season against vanilla defenses manned by marginal backup players the other team was evaluating to discover whether they even earned a roster spot.

Fans saw him do great against scrubs and thought "This guy is the next Broncos QB!"

No. Just no. He wasn't that good.

Broncoknight30
01-11-2018, 08:13 PM
It's more than that. NFL scouts are seldom THAT wrong about a QB. How many 7th round QBs are stars in this league. I can't think of one! Tyrod Taylor was a 7th rounder, and he's proven he can be a mediocre starter.

But does anybody think Tyrod Taylor will ever lead a team to a SB? Me neither. He's just like Trevor - a 7th round pick who exceeded the very limited expectations of all NFL scouts and GMs. That's all.

Sloter is the same. He's a marginal player who will spend his time in the NFL as a scout team QB until he's replaced by some other scrub.

This is not some conspiracy. Teams are not ignoring the amazing ability of Kyle Sloter. He's just not very good.

And the fact that the Broncos were wrong about Paxton does not invalidate this at all. Paxton has a lot more athletic talent than Kyle Sloter ever dreamed of. But, when they gave him the chance he proved he couldn't learn the system or how to read NFL defenses. Sloter was never given that chance. He played in the pre-season against vanilla defenses manned by marginal backup players the other team was evaluating to discover whether they even earned a roster spot.

Fans saw him do great against scrubs and thought "This guy is the next Broncos QB!"

No. Just no. He wasn't that good.

Paxton Lynch did shit against those same scrubs, and scouts are often wrong.

Very OFTEN wrong.

However, once a certain player takes up cap room, that is it. Otherwise sloter would NOT have been told he has no chance, AND Lynch looking like shit against the same scrubs that sloter looked good against would have been a bigger deal.

Scouts.....are often wrong. Plenty of examples. Plenty.

Poet
01-11-2018, 09:07 PM
Let the healing begin, brethren.

BroncoJoe
01-12-2018, 11:08 AM
Every time I see this thread title, I have to chuckle a bit.

I'm sure Elway is very pleased you agree to disagree with him...

:D

Ziggy
01-12-2018, 11:32 AM
lynch's busted ass wasn't even available to play 'til like week 8 or 9 or whatever. . . there's no question they should have put him on IR, and kept sloter. . .

This is true Dog, but this coaching staff still wouldn't have played Sloter. He would have been warming up the inactive list along with DeAngelo Henderson. Why play young talent when you can keep playing the vets with poor results?

Ziggy
01-12-2018, 11:44 AM
Yeah, and Luck's "shoulder."

I am reading around the league that the Colts are not an attractive place as many may have thought and Luck is the reason. In other words, he really is not as good as many fans think, and he is sure taking up A LOT OF CAP ROOM.

Several coaching prospects have turned the Colts down.

You don't think that has anything to do with the glaring lack of overall talent on that team do you? No offensive line, no defense. Luck is 43-27 as a starter on one of the worst rosters in the NFL. The Colts are 8-16 without him since he was drafted. When Luck is healthy he's a franchise QB that can carry a team. His problem isn't talent. It's health.