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View Full Version : Broncos choice to stick with Joseph shows lack of accountability



Northman
01-02-2018, 09:33 AM
https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/1/1/16838614/broncos-vance-joseph-decision-lacks-accountability

Dont necessarily agree with the "bold moves" part as Elway did it with Fox after a winning season but there is plenty to agree with when it comes to the rest of the article.



The move to give Vance Joseph another year as head coach (https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/1/1/16838350/report-vance-joseph-will-be-back-in-2018) has a feel of Trevor Siemian Part Two. The organization and fans know how this story ends, but because failure is made by nice guys, they get a second chance anyway. Elway and the Broncos are, again, victims of a cult of personality. There’s no evidence to suggest Joseph will improve, but there is plentiful evidence Denver is afraid to make bold moves.For what? Continuity? Right, the same players who quit when they faced a little adversity on the field in 2017 will suddenly fight a little harder because their buddy is back.

Because you don’t quit on a quarterback after one season, so why do it with a coach? We saw how well that played out with Siemian. At this point, Elway and the Broncos are fighting the inevitable. (https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/1/1/16838180/john-elway-vance-joseph-broncos) You have to at least see something, anything, to lend that kind of trust to someone who failed in such epic fashion. Instead, what this shows is the expectation to win and compete for Super Bowl (http://www.sbnation.com/super-bowl)s has been replaced with hope.

Let’s “hope” this works, because the pool of head coaches isn’t that great and Denver isn’t exactly in a state to compete for top-tier candidates. That way of thinking says a lot about the state of the franchise and how far it’s fallen. This is a franchise that just won a Super Bowl two seasons ago and has more Super Bowl appearances than losing seasons, yet now it can’t attract a top candidate? If that’s the case, why would a quarterback like Kirk Cousins (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/155013/kirk-cousins) come here?

Freyaka
01-02-2018, 10:16 AM
Well VJ is the king of lack of accountability. Unless you are Jordan Taylor, Deangelo Henderson, Jamaal Charles or a few others that for whatever reason ended up in his doghouse most of the season.

Makes you wonder who Deangelo Henderson killed to end up in VJ's dog house until the final game if Mackenzie was allowed to fumble multiple times per game and survive...

I don't like the move...But I'll give it time. Hopefully he's learned from his mistakes and will pull his head out of his rectum come football time.

Shazam!
01-02-2018, 10:24 AM
Same author would have probably wrote an article trashing the Broncos if they did fire him so this was doom anyway.

Cugel
01-02-2018, 11:22 AM
Let’s “hope” this works, because the pool of head coaches isn’t that great and Denver isn’t exactly in a state to compete for top-tier candidates. That way of thinking says a lot about the state of the franchise and how far it’s fallen. This is a franchise that just won a Super Bowl two seasons ago and has more Super Bowl appearances than losing seasons, yet now it can’t attract a top candidate? If that’s the case, why would a quarterback like Kirk Cousins come here?

Obviously Denver is NOT a great landing spot for any top head coaching candidate, because Elway keeps firing the coach after 1 or 2 seasons. That was the biggest reason he needed to just chill and let Joseph coach another year. He had to give the guy a chance in order to convince future coaching candidates "I will give you a chance too."

Otherwise, what does a coaching candidate think: "Hell, he gave Vance 3 garbage QBs and no decent OL and no offensive weapons to work with, and then fired him after 1 season, never admitting his own fault in the decline in talent on the roster. What makes me think the same thing won't happen to me if I take this job? PASS!"

As for Kirk Cousins, obviously he's not coming here anyway. If this idiot writer thinks that somehow Elway will work some "magic" and convince Cousins to come here and somehow take about $5m less than he'll get elsewhere and that somehow the Redskins wouldn't gleefully match any Broncos offer for $26m a year (or any reasonable amount), then of NO - Kirk Cousins ISN'T coming here.

And that is no reflection on John Elway. That simply means he is not stupid enough to offer Kirk Cousins $30+ million a year in order to force the Redskins to let him go.

broncofaninfla
01-02-2018, 11:33 AM
While I support Elway's decisions I was pretty surprised by this one. It seems as though the Broncos are settling for mediocrity by keeping VJ, I truly don't get it but holding faith that whatever Elway sees in VJ will soon be evident to the rest of us.

underrated29
01-02-2018, 11:35 AM
Obviously Denver is NOT a great landing spot for any top head coaching candidate, because Elway keeps firing the coach after 1 or 2 seasons. That was the biggest reason he needed to just chill and let Joseph coach another year. He had to give the guy a chance in order to convince future coaching candidates "I will give you a chance too."

Otherwise, what does a coaching candidate think: "Hell, he gave Vance 3 garbage QBs and no decent OL and no offensive weapons to work with, and then fired him after 1 season, never admitting his own fault in the decline in talent on the roster. What makes me think the same thing won't happen to me if I take this job? PASS!"

As for Kirk Cousins, obviously he's not coming here anyway. If this idiot writer thinks that somehow Elway will work some "magic" and convince Cousins to come here and somehow take about $5m less than he'll get elsewhere and that somehow the Redskins wouldn't gleefully match any Broncos offer for $26m a year (or any reasonable amount), then of NO - Kirk Cousins ISN'T coming here.

And that is no reflection on John Elway. That simply means he is not stupid enough to offer Kirk Cousins $30+ million a year in order to force the Redskins to let him go.




They are all in on cousins. I keep telling you this. They are going to make it happen unless cousins just does not want to come here. I bet he does. Watch us make a go of it.

Shazam!
01-02-2018, 11:38 AM
Obviously Denver is NOT a great landing spot for any top head coaching candidate, because Elway keeps firing the coach after 1 or 2 seasons. That was the biggest reason he needed to just chill and let Joseph coach another year. He had to give the guy a chance in order to convince future coaching candidates "I will give you a chance too."

Otherwise, what does a coaching candidate think: "Hell, he gave Vance 3 garbage QBs and no decent OL and no offensive weapons to work with, and then fired him after 1 season, never admitting his own fault in the decline in talent on the roster. What makes me think the same thing won't happen to me if I take this job? PASS!"

As for Kirk Cousins, obviously he's not coming here anyway. If this idiot writer thinks that somehow Elway will work some "magic" and convince Cousins to come here and somehow take about $5m less than he'll get elsewhere and that somehow the Redskins wouldn't gleefully match any Broncos offer for $26m a year (or any reasonable amount), then of NO - Kirk Cousins ISN'T coming here.

And that is no reflection on John Elway. That simply means he is not stupid enough to offer Kirk Cousins $30+ million a year in order to force the Redskins to let him go.




They are all in on cousins. I keep telling you this. They are going to make it happen unless cousins just does not want to come here. I bet he does. Watch us make a go of it.

I think they will Draft one if the top QBs and bring in a veteran. Not with Von's salary are they going for Cousins.

Freyaka
01-02-2018, 11:55 AM
I think they will Draft one if the top QBs and bring in a veteran. Not with Von's salary are they going for Cousins.

Well, reports are that neither Talib or Emmanual Sanders will be Broncos next year, that frees up $22M. If you dump a few more like CJ and Watson, money isn't the issue.

We can easily afford Cousins contract, but after watching him play the last few games of the season, he played like utter garbage...I'd pass not because we can't afford him, but because he just doesn't seem a good fit in Denver.

nevcraw
01-02-2018, 01:06 PM
Well, reports are that neither Talib or Emmanual Sanders will be Broncos next year, that frees up $22M. If you dump a few more like CJ and Watson, money isn't the issue.

We can easily afford Cousins contract, but after watching him play the last few games of the season, he played like utter garbage...I'd pass not because we can't afford him, but because he just doesn't seem a good fit in Denver.
Did you watch the wash Denver game?

underrated29
01-02-2018, 01:08 PM
I dont want him either, and money is not the issue, but they are going for him. He is plan a.

Freyaka
01-02-2018, 01:12 PM
Did you watch the wash Denver game?

I did, I dunno, color me unimpressed.

Northman
01-02-2018, 01:15 PM
With what Cousins had to work with this year im totally impressed. Give him a better team and he would improve even more.

Freyaka
01-02-2018, 01:15 PM
I dont want him either, and money is not the issue, but they are going for him. He is plan a.

Money is the bulk of my issue. We can afford him if we want him, but we'll be paying him as if he's the best QB in the league. If you are talking about bringing in Peyton Manning, that's acceptable, but Kirk Cousins isn't a top 3 or even top 5 QB. He's maybe tail end of the top 10 and you'll be paying him like he's the top dog. I don't think he's worth that and once we sign him, we'll be stuck with him for better or for worse for the remainder of that contract.

Having a lot of money tied into a player is great if that player elevates the team. I don't see Cousins elevating us enough to make it worth the cost, but I'm not in the FO so we'll see what they think in a couple of months.

Truthfully, it's not just the cash alone though, it's the fact that if Washington transition tags him (they will if they are smart) a team is going to have to give up AT MINIMUM one or two first round picks...If we're going to give up a first round pick for a QB, I'd rather we draft Mayfield.

wayninja
01-02-2018, 03:05 PM
Cousins is far and away better than any QB we have on the roster (with maybe the exception of Sunshine, who will never get his day in the...er.. sun). If we can get him, we should. It's really that simple.

QB is our biggest offensive problem, by far. If you have to create smaller problems to fix a huge one, I think you do it. So really a no-brainer there to me, even if we have to pay more than we'd like. Whether or not that fixes all problems, is another story, but nothing in the NFL is guaranteed. And knowing that, you just try to stack the deck in your favor as much as possible. Cousins represents one of the better odds stacking moves would could make.

I know our O-line is not great, and that needs help too, but I think that simply needs to be handled via more draft and better coaching. Since we've already given up on better coaching, I think we just have to live with the problem and hope a QB can overcome it's deficiency.

It's not great, but it's all we got.

NightTerror218
01-02-2018, 03:32 PM
Cousins is far and away better than any QB we have on the roster (with maybe the exception of Sunshine, who will never get his day in the...er.. sun). If we can get him, we should. It's really that simple.

QB is our biggest offensive problem, by far. If you have to create smaller problems to fix a huge one, I think you do it. So really a no-brainer there to me, even if we have to pay more than we'd like. Whether or not that fixes all problems, is another story, but nothing in the NFL is guaranteed. And knowing that, you just try to stack the deck in your favor as much as possible. Cousins represents one of the better odds stacking moves would could make.

I know our O-line is not great, and that needs help too, but I think that simply needs to be handled via more draft and better coaching. Since we've already given up on better coaching, I think we just have to live with the problem and hope a QB can overcome it's deficiency.

It's not great, but it's all we got.

RT and QB are top priorities. Need to. Keep QB upright

Freyaka
01-02-2018, 03:35 PM
RT and QB are top priorities. Need to. Keep QB upright

I would amend that to say LT or RT.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that we grab a starter quality LT and kick Bolles over to RT.

NightTerror218
01-02-2018, 03:38 PM
I would amend that to say LT or RT.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that we grab a starter quality LT and kick Bolles over to RT.

Outside of nate solder no LT options in FA and only options are in draft. I like Bolles long term at LT.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-02-2018, 05:22 PM
Outside of nate solder no LT options in FA and only options are in draft. I like Bolles long term at LT.

I like him long term too. He has the drive and athleticism to be really good.

Tangerine
01-02-2018, 05:22 PM
Obviously Denver is NOT a great landing spot for any top head coaching candidate, because Elway keeps firing the coach after 1 or 2 seasons. That was the biggest reason he needed to just chill and let Joseph coach another year. He had to give the guy a chance in order to convince future coaching candidates "I will give you a chance

What coach has Elway fired after 1 season? He hasn't fired any head coaches, Fox decided to part ways after 4 years because he wanted the job in Chicago, Kubiak stepped down after 2 years because of health reasons. VJ would've been the first "fired" coach and he's at least getting a 2nd year.

BroncoJoe
01-02-2018, 05:31 PM
What coach has Elway fired after 1 season?

None, and as you pointed out, Elway hasn't fired any head coach. Ever.

Freyaka
01-02-2018, 05:36 PM
What coach has Elway fired after 1 season? He hasn't fired any head coaches, Fox decided to part ways after 4 years because he wanted the job in Chicago, Kubiak stepped down after 2 years because of health reasons. VJ would've been the first "fired" coach and he's at least getting a 2nd year.

Everyone wants to wrongly claim we fired Kubiak, despite the fact that he's still with the team and is now getting promoted to an executive position...

It's silly really. People like to twist facts to fit their narrative.

wayninja
01-02-2018, 06:17 PM
Mike Hawk sighting. yuk yuk

BroncoJoe
01-02-2018, 06:24 PM
Mike Hawk sighting. yuk yuk

Dude doesn't post much, but when he does, it's gold Jerry. Gold.

PS: I think it's clear that Mike Hawk is the best.

sneakers
01-02-2018, 06:29 PM
What would they do? Hire John Fox back?

wayninja
01-02-2018, 07:10 PM
What would they do? Hire John Fox back?

Over my dead body.

EastCoastBronco
01-03-2018, 07:46 AM
What would they do? Hire John Fox back?

He's the coach we deserve...but not the one we need right now.

Freyaka
01-03-2018, 08:13 AM
What would they do? Hire John Fox back?

I mean, I wouldn't have minded Pagano. I don't think he was the issue in Indy, but yea, pickens are slim for viable head coaches.

MasterShake
01-03-2018, 08:56 AM
I guess I just don't see the options at this point so its a damned if you do/don't situation. VJ might not be the best choice, but without a solid backup plan we are back to square one next season. At least VJ can't use the, "It's my first day" excuse next season.

https://i.imgur.com/qOt3QRk.gif

Freyaka
01-03-2018, 09:39 AM
I guess I just don't see the options at this point so its a damned if you do/don't situation. VJ might not be the best choice, but without a solid backup plan we are back to square one next season. At least VJ can't use the, "It's my first day" excuse next season.

https://i.imgur.com/qOt3QRk.gif

Yea, basically there are a lot of teams looking for coaches and right now, the coaching pool is not much better than VJ, unless of course you want to grab Matt Patricia and personally I never want to hire another New England coordinator again so..

VJ will have to do and we'll see what happens next year.

dogfish
01-03-2018, 12:58 PM
the coaching pool is fine. . . just because you guys don't see a slam dunk, that doesn't mean there aren't good coaches out there. . . how many of you saw sean mcvay as an ideal candidate? go find me your posts from last year, i'll wait. . . seriously, the coaching pool is what it always is-- a mix of slightly-known up-and-comers, re-treads waiting for their second chance, and the usual suspect big names. . . that's all it ever is any year. . . belichick and sean payton won't be on the market next year, either. . .

Cugel
01-10-2018, 11:32 PM
Everyone wants to wrongly claim we fired Kubiak, despite the fact that he's still with the team and is now getting promoted to an executive position...

It's silly really. People like to twist facts to fit their narrative.

Kubiak and Elway disagreed on firing a bunch of Kubiak's assistant coaches. Kubiak's health was poor and his wife didn't want him being a head coach any more too. So, it was an easy decision for him to step down. He could have stayed if he wanted to, but Elway would still have fired his assistants.

So, fans saying Elway "fired" Kubiak are wrong. He also didn't technically fire Fox either. They "agreed to part ways." Of course, Fox would probably have been fired if he wanted to stay, but he wanted out so badly that he had Jay Glazer, his pet reporter print a story on the day of the Colts playoff game in which he predicted that if the Broncos lost, Fox would be available. This was aimed squarely at the Bears who Fox wanted to make sure didn't hire a coach until he could interview with them. He was lining up his next job while the Broncos were still in the playoffs!

Poet
01-11-2018, 12:14 AM
Cousins, just by virtue of not being horrible, will make the line better by audibling properly, getting the ball out of his hand quickly, hot routes, etc.

Cousins is capable of putting up big numbers with vastly inferior offensive talent. If we had to get rid of ES, we would still be more productive with KC and no ES than rookie QB/Tyrod Taylor/Eli and ES.

Do I want to spend that much money on any single player? No. Do I want this team to turn it around quickly? Yes. If we don't sign KC then we better be trading up for one of the two big QB's because anything less than a proven big time veteran or a huge talented QB means the offseason is a bust.

Now, what does this have to do with VJ and being accountable? Well, if we don't get a young rookie and show some promise, he's going to be held accountable and be fired. And if we don't sign a vet and make the playoffs, same result.

Freyaka
01-11-2018, 11:29 AM
Cousins, just by virtue of not being horrible, will make the line better by audibling properly, getting the ball out of his hand quickly, hot routes, etc.

Cousins is capable of putting up big numbers with vastly inferior offensive talent. If we had to get rid of ES, we would still be more productive with KC and no ES than rookie QB/Tyrod Taylor/Eli and ES.

Do I want to spend that much money on any single player? No. Do I want this team to turn it around quickly? Yes. If we don't sign KC then we better be trading up for one of the two big QB's because anything less than a proven big time veteran or a huge talented QB means the offseason is a bust.

Now, what does this have to do with VJ and being accountable? Well, if we don't get a young rookie and show some promise, he's going to be held accountable and be fired. And if we don't sign a vet and make the playoffs, same result.

That's kinda where I am. I don't think Kirk is good enough to be the highest paid QB in the league. If that's what it takes, I'm not really content with that. If he comes here he'll get my support, that's how I tend to be with starting QB's until they give me enough reason to doubt them.

I'd rather see Baker Mayfield. That's kind of my favorite choice in the draft. I don't like Darnold because USC QB's are just...they have a proven track record of not being as good as advertised once they get to the NFL.

As for VJ, I get why they kept him, I don't like it, but I get it. If we fire him, suddenly we've had 4 coaches in 4 years and that isn't a good look for a franchise trying to attract talent to them to turn the corner and get back to competitive. If he sucks again this year, we'll have full justification of canning him and it won't damage the image of the team.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-11-2018, 12:49 PM
Matt Stafford and Russel Wilson “aren’t good enough to be the highest paid qbs” either, but here we are.

Supply and demand is a bear sometimes.

Northman
01-11-2018, 01:16 PM
Matt Stafford and Russel Wilson “aren’t good enough to be the highest paid qbs” either, but here we are.

Supply and demand is a bear sometimes.

Exactly.

Poet
01-11-2018, 09:12 PM
Exactly.

In a few years his deal will be easier to stomach. Right now, as average and listless as Flacco is, his contract is pretty solid for the Ravens.

I think the defense is still good enough to be top flight. I think Cousins can mask a lot of issues. If we are going to rebuild, go for it. If not, don't try to have a half-foot in and half-foot out approach with a rookie Qb and an aging defense.