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View Full Version : Practice / press conference notes - week 17 (Chiefs week)



VonDoom
12-26-2017, 12:42 PM
Games that are meaningless to both teams in week 17 are always the most fun. In any case:

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
32m32 minutes ago

#Broncos Sanders is day-to-day. Ankle sore. Latimer left thigh sore. Zach Kerr sprained ankle and will look to practice Thursday

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
31m31 minutes ago

The #Broncos plan is to play Lynch. Paxton will start

Nicki Jhabvala
‏Verified account @NickiJhabvala
32m32 minutes ago

Joseph on Lynch: "He wasn't quite ready this week, so hopefully he will be this week."

Andrew Mason
‏Verified account @MaseDenver
31m31 minutes ago

Vance Joseph, on playing Paxton Lynch: “We want to see him play.” Says that the first goal remains to win, but “with it being a QB issue going into the offseason, we want to see him play to see what this player is."

Nicki Jhabvala
‏Verified account @NickiJhabvala
31m31 minutes ago

Joseph on Osweiler this year: "Brock, in opinion, he was very solid. ... I was really happy with his ball placement most of the year. But again, when the offense doesn't go, it's not all on one person."

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
28m28 minutes ago

#Broncos Joseph said Jordan Taylor earned the job as punt returner "Been flawless." Will stay in role Sunday. #Denver7

Mike Klis
‏Verified account @MikeKlis
28m28 minutes ago

Vance message to team this week: "Let's be pros.''


Nick Kosmider
‏Verified account @NickKosmider
27m27 minutes ago

Vance Joseph says getting C.J. Anderson to the 1,000 yard mark on Sunday is an important goal for the running back and the team.

Nick Kosmider
‏Verified account @NickKosmider
26m26 minutes ago

Anderson needs 54 yards to reach 1,000 for the first time in his five-year career. He's had at least 54 yards in three of his last four games.

Nicki Jhabvala
‏Verified account @NickiJhabvala
27m27 minutes ago

Vance Joseph asked about the clip of Brock Osweiler trying to fire up players on the sidelines and no one appearing to respond to him: "One thing about Brock is he provides a leadership quality that we haven't had in that position."

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
25m25 minutes ago

#Broncos Joseph said "My focus on Sunday. I can't say who is going to be back next year." #Denver7

Nicki Jhabvala
‏Verified account @NickiJhabvala
14m14 minutes ago

Vance Joseph: “The plan is to start Paxton. He wasn’t quite ready last week so hopefully he’s ready to go this week. That’s the plan, to start Paxton this week. We want to see him play. That’s been the goal the last couple of weeks and that hasn’t happened."

Denver Native (Carol)
12-26-2017, 01:05 PM
Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
9m9 minutes ago

#Broncos Paxton Lynch to start as jobs hang in the balance. #Denver7 http://bit.ly/2l12Xl6

Zac Stevens
‏ @ZacStevensBSN
50m50 minutes ago

The #Broncos have not thought about releasing Jamaal Charles, per Vance Joseph


Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
51m51 minutes ago

#Broncos Joseph said "My focus on Sunday. I can't say who is going to be back next year." #Denver7

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
51m51 minutes ago

#Broncos Joseph "We have some good leaders. We can always have more." #Denver7

underrated29
12-26-2017, 01:39 PM
Charles is back next year and we are going to use him like Mike Suckoy should have this year. Now he is being shelved so he can keep healing and be ready to rock next year.

MOtorboat
12-26-2017, 01:48 PM
I don’t know why I read the quotes anymore. He says some really dumb shit.

Nomad
12-26-2017, 01:55 PM
I don't have much confidence the BRONCOS will even score on offense.

Canmore
12-26-2017, 02:07 PM
I don't have much confidence the BRONCOS will even score on offense.

Me either.

olathebroncofan
12-26-2017, 02:20 PM
Anyone have the clip of Brock trying to fire up the team, but no one listening?

Spiritguy
12-26-2017, 02:35 PM
Here ya go. Just click on it.


https://www.facebook.com/TheFanMorningShow/videos/1931414330206415/

MOtorboat
12-26-2017, 02:37 PM
Anyone have the clip of Brock trying to fire up the team, but no one listening?

It was one of the dumbest things I’ve seen Brock Osweiler do.

Rick
12-26-2017, 02:43 PM
I am leaning towards the guy who fumbled once and threw a pick maybe shutting the **** up.

MOtorboat
12-26-2017, 02:46 PM
I am leaning towards the guy who fumbled once and threw a pick maybe shutting the **** up.

Yelling and screaming doesn’t equal leadership and passion.

Rick
12-26-2017, 02:48 PM
Nope, = stupid for yelling at his team to step up right after he commits turnovers lol.

VonDoom
12-26-2017, 02:55 PM
Charles is back next year and we are going to use him like Mike Suckoy should have this year. Now he is being shelved so he can keep healing and be ready to rock next year.

This doesn't sound like a guy who's going to be back here next year:


Charles said that he feels “like I never got a chance to show people that I can carry the load” with the Broncos this season. Charles was active for the first 14 games with 69 carries for 296 yards and 23 catches for 129 yards while playing about 15 snaps per game, something he said “sucks” because he thought there would be a more equitable split with other backs.

Getting released now would offer at least the possibility of catching on with a team bound for the playoffs, but Broncos coach Vance Joseph said the team hasn’t considered it. Charles doesn’t know why they haven’t.

“I ain’t playing. Might as well,” Charles said, via Nicki Jhabvala of the Denver Post. “No reason for me to just sit around and look at people play. It is what it is. I’m still going to be supportive of everyone on the team no matter what. I mean, they got my rights right now.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/12/26/jamaal-charles-broncos-might-as-well-release-me/

BeefStew25
12-26-2017, 03:07 PM
Yeah Charles was on a one year deal right?

Denver Native (Carol)
12-26-2017, 03:25 PM
Jamaal Charles wants Broncos to release him

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21885847/with-role-diminished-denver-broncos-rb-jamaal-charles-wants-release

spikerman
12-26-2017, 05:09 PM
Jamaal Charles wants Broncos to release him

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21885847/with-role-diminished-denver-broncos-rb-jamaal-charles-wants-release
I don’t blame him. He was wasted this year.

topscribe
12-26-2017, 06:50 PM
I guess Brock should have sat down and played Solitaire, which is the equivalent of what the
others were doing. Maybe that's what bothered him. I like the spirit. Those guys were acting
like they were between reps at practice. Not a sign of "kicking and screaming." No wonder
they had their butts handed to them. They had done nothing but sit on them, anyway . . .

MOtorboat
12-26-2017, 07:08 PM
I guess Brock should have sat down and played Solitaire, which is the equivalent of what the
others were doing. Maybe that's what bothered him. I like the spirit. Those guys were acting
like they were between reps at practice. Not a sign of "kicking and screaming." No wonder
they had their butts handed to them. They had done nothing but sit on them, anyway . . .

He should have found an iPad and tried to figure out why he couldn’t move the football.

topscribe
12-26-2017, 07:10 PM
He should have found an iPad and tried to figure out why he couldn’t move the football.
Right. Just like tennis and golf. Do it himself.

topscribe
12-26-2017, 07:13 PM
I know some of you like to pile onto one player. But I saw 10 clowns out there.

Everyone except C.J. Anderson. But at least the clown at QB had some fighting spirit . . .

MOtorboat
12-26-2017, 07:18 PM
Right. Just like tennis and golf. Do it himself.

Like it or not, there is more on a quarterback’s shoulders than anyone else’s on the field. Fumbling a football and then going to the sideline and trying to “pump up” the team, or whatever idiotic thing he was trying to do is just useless (especially when it’s a quarterback who is not established and hasn’t earned the right to do dumb things like that, i.e. Tom Brady). Get your ass to a coach and an iPad and try to figure something out. Let someone else do the rah-rah crap.

Anyone see the NFL films video from the Turning Point show with Garrapolo? Damn, that’s a quarterback.

topscribe
12-26-2017, 11:46 PM
Like it or not, there is more on a quarterback’s shoulders than anyone else’s on the field. Fumbling a football and then going to the sideline and trying to “pump up” the team, or whatever idiotic thing he was trying to do is just useless (especially when it’s a quarterback who is not established and hasn’t earned the right to do dumb things like that, i.e. Tom Brady). Get your ass to a coach and an iPad and try to figure something out. Let someone else do the rah-rah crap.

Anyone see the NFL films video from the Turning Point show with Garrapolo? Damn, that’s a quarterback.
Been there. Done that. Osweiler did the right thing, IMO. A big part of a QB's job description
is to lead. He leads how he leads. Ironically, Siemian was criticized for not being more emotional.
I have more criticism toward those zombies on the bench who looked more like they were
watching something on TV. At least, Brock was doing something . . .

MOtorboat
12-27-2017, 12:06 AM
Been there. Done that. Osweiler did the right thing, IMO. A big part of a QB's job description
is to lead. He leads how he leads. Ironically, Siemian was criticized for not being more emotional.
I have more criticism toward those zombies on the bench who looked more like they were
watching something on TV. At least, Brock was doing something . . .

Well, I wasn’t someone who complained about Siemian “showing emotion.” I don’t want a quarterback who is screaming at his offensive line after he fumbled. It’s tone deaf and dumb.

MOtorboat
12-27-2017, 12:10 AM
P.S. Screaming isn’t leadership. It’s just screaming.

topscribe
12-27-2017, 12:18 AM
Well, I wasn’t someone who complained about Siemian “showing emotion.” I don’t want a quarterback who is screaming at his offensive line after he fumbled. It’s tone deaf and dumb.
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess. I personally liked what I saw out of Brock.
It was like he was the only one who cared.

MOtorboat
12-27-2017, 12:23 AM
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess. I personally liked what I saw out of Brock.
It was like he was the only one who cared.

We will, because there is no tangible way to tell how much someone cares about something by screaming on the sideline in a 2-second TV clip.

topscribe
12-27-2017, 12:29 AM
We will, because there is no tangible way to tell how much someone cares about something by screaming on the sideline in a 2-second TV clip.
I live in Tucson, almost walking distance from where the University of Arizona sits. PAC-12 football.
Brock played 2 hours up the road at ASU. I've seen him for years. Trust me, he cares . . .

MOtorboat
12-27-2017, 01:06 AM
I live in Tucson, almost walking distance from where the University of Arizona sits. PAC-12 football.
Brock played 2 hours up the road at ASU. I've seen him for years. Trust me, he cares . . .

I wasn’t questioning whether or not he cares.

LawDog
12-27-2017, 11:08 AM
I wasn’t questioning whether or not he cares.

Top has made up his mind on this issue. Once that happens he digs in his heels and will argue until there's no one left to argue to/at/with. It's part of his charm. Also kind of annoying.

VonDoom
12-27-2017, 01:27 PM
Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
4m4 minutes ago

#broncos add WR Jordan Leslie to practice squad #Denver7

Rick
12-27-2017, 01:33 PM
Brock was fired up, I get it. he has passion, I like that.

My issue was the timing. Fumble the ball and then go and start yelling to fire up the team? Bonehead, yell at yourself...you just fumbled...

VonDoom
12-27-2017, 02:27 PM
Mike Klis
‏Verified account @MikeKlis
9m9 minutes ago

Emmanuel Sanders, Cody Latimer not practicing. #9sports

Timmy!
12-27-2017, 02:28 PM
Brock was fired up, I get it. he has passion, I like that.

My issue was the timing. Fumble the ball and then go and start yelling to fire up the team? Bonehead, yell at yourself...you just fumbled...

I yelled pointlessly at my TV at lot this season too, so I get it.

VonDoom
12-27-2017, 02:41 PM
TV maps are up - games are all over the place this week, with all sixteen games on in two Sunday windows:

http://506sports.com/nfl.php?yr=2017&wk=17

BroncoJoe
12-27-2017, 02:50 PM
Is there any game that has playoff implications?

Denver Native (Carol)
12-27-2017, 02:51 PM
Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
9m9 minutes ago

#Broncos @Derek_Wolfe95 said on @1043TheFan has spinal stenosis in C7 segment in neck. Optimistic rest, treatment will make huge difference, extend career. Wants to play 10 years in league, minimum. Elbow issue last year amplified neck problem; used neck/head to engage #Denver7

Denver Native (Carol)
12-27-2017, 02:54 PM
Is there any game that has playoff implications?

Found this
NFL playoff scenarios: How Chargers, Bills, Seahawks, others can clinch in Week 17
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-playoff-picture-scenarios-week-17-clinch-berth-bye-division-home-field/nbe6odg3oxf81lpem1q46xql5

VonDoom
12-27-2017, 02:59 PM
Is there any game that has playoff implications?

Yeah, most of the late window games have SOME implications, though a lot of the field is set this year. Of course, we're in that late window and our game is meaningless for both teams, so ...

VonDoom
12-27-2017, 03:24 PM
Troy Renck Verified account @TroyRenck now1 minute ago

Zach Kerr did not practice today bc of ankle issue

Mike Klis Verified account @MikeKlis now14 seconds ago

Vance Joseph on Paxton Lynch practice today: “He threw the ball well.” #9sports

Troy Renck Verified account @TroyRenck now6 seconds ago

#Broncos Joseph called this week of practice "bittersweet" #Denver7

Troy Renck Verified account @TroyRenck now8 seconds ago

#Broncos Joseph said it has been transition year because of the blend of extreme youth and championship players #Denver7

Nicki Jhabvala Verified account @NickiJhabvala now37 seconds ago

Vance Joseph said Emmanuel Sanders is “still really sore” and “if he’s not healthy enough to practice, he can’t play.”

Buff
12-27-2017, 03:33 PM
Brock was fired up, I get it. he has passion, I like that.

My issue was the timing. Fumble the ball and then go and start yelling to fire up the team? Bonehead, yell at yourself...you just fumbled...

To be fair, both Bolles and Stephenson get beaten badly by their guys on that play. I don't know if Stephenson even laid a hand on his guy.

BeefStew25
12-27-2017, 03:35 PM
See, Vance says Lynch threw the ball well. Then Lynch is going to go out Sunday and look like crap. I mean I don’t know what he is supposed to say, and he is in a tough spot, but it makes me aggravated.

spikerman
12-27-2017, 03:39 PM
See, Vance says Lynch threw the ball well. Then Lynch is going to go out Sunday and look like crap. I mean I don’t know what he is supposed to say, and he is in a tough spot, but it makes me aggravated.
So far, that has been the trend along with all of the great weeks of practice.

NightTerror218
12-27-2017, 03:55 PM
Brock was fired up, I get it. he has passion, I like that.

My issue was the timing. Fumble the ball and then go and start yelling to fire up the team? Bonehead, yell at yourself...you just fumbled...

All depends on what he was saying. You can yell lots of things to fire up a team but if he yelling that they need to do better that is one thing but trying,to,lite a fire under an iffense that loomed like they gave up is fine with me. To,me that showed some passion and that offense gave up.

topscribe
12-27-2017, 06:04 PM
TV maps are up - games are all over the place this week, with all sixteen games on in two Sunday windows:

http://506sports.com/nfl.php?yr=2017&wk=17
Bad games, all of them. And they aren't showing Denver's game here in Tucson.

I just might go out and shoot some hoops.

topscribe
12-27-2017, 06:32 PM
Top has made up his mind on this issue. Once that happens he digs in his heels and will argue until there's no one left to argue to/at/with. It's part of his charm. Also kind of annoying.
Actually, I have changed my mind in the middle of a discussion. Even admitted I was wrong.
But then, that wouldn't fit your narrative?

LawDog
12-27-2017, 09:23 PM
Actually, I have changed my mind in the middle of a discussion. Even admitted I was wrong.
But then, that wouldn't fit your narrative?

A single exception does not void the rule.

topscribe
12-27-2017, 09:33 PM
A single exception does not void the rule.
You keep this up, and you're going to hurt my feelings . . .

LawDog
12-28-2017, 01:01 AM
You keep this up, and you're going to hurt my feelings . . .

Ha! Impossiblé

NightTerror218
12-28-2017, 02:22 PM
Not sure why everyone is so down on lynch playing. Need to see his development as a QB. In preseason he played part of a gane and got injured in his only start.

IMO he needs to show progress on this game or he will be backup to hopefully cousins.

spikerman
12-28-2017, 02:51 PM
I’ve been on board with him playing but honestly I’m not sure this one game will tell the team much.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-28-2017, 05:00 PM
I’ve been on board with him playing but honestly I’m not sure this one game will tell the team much.

It should tell them a lot. Lynch will be playing with a better defense to back him up. Mahomes a better Oline and TE. If Mahomes wins this game against our defense and Lynch loses against his, which I anticipate, it should all but put the nail in Lynch’s future as our starter.

Buff
12-28-2017, 05:07 PM
Lynch has had 2 years to show something - anything - so I don't feel too bad... But he's definitely in a no-win situation this week. If he plays well and wins it's because it's a meaningless game against backups and if he doesn't play well on a bum ankle with a bunch of teammates who will be rushing to the airport after the game, then it only feeds into his bust narrative. He'd really have to set the world on fire in order for this to end well for him.

VonDoom
12-28-2017, 05:17 PM
Ryan Clady to be honored during the game on Sunday:

http://m.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Broncos-to-honor-Ryan-Clady-during-Week-17-game-vs-Kansas-City/2c7d5cac-2e97-472c-92f0-392967f4b07d

VonDoom
12-28-2017, 05:38 PM
https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/946505993365655554

spikerman
12-28-2017, 05:43 PM
https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/946505993365655554

Shot at Elway?

Denver Native (Carol)
12-28-2017, 06:23 PM
Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
1h1 hour ago

#Broncos Brandon Marshall suffered slight tear in right rotator cuff. Been dealing with it since Buffalo gm. Has played best football last 4 games because learned to manage, treat pain. Has already topped 100 tackles. "There was no way I wasn't going to play through it." #Denver7

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
1h1 hour ago

Interesting note about #Broncos Chad Kelly. He has dropped from 236 pounds to 212.. Looks and feels great. Feels more mobile at lighter weight, and healthy. Doesn't know what future holds. "All I can do is keep working, and stay in the playbook." #Denver7


Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
2h2 hours ago

Troy Renck Retweeted Grant Orvis

No one is blameless in this season. They need to add at least two personnel people.. Staff is among smallest in league. But he has produced five playoff berths, two Super Bowls and one title in seven seasons. He engineered the turnaround. He has earned the right to execute U-turn

Troy Renck added,
Grant Orvis
@GrantOrvis
Replying to @TroyRenck
When does this fiasco fall on Elway or will the Broncos hold him on a throne forever?

Denver Native (Carol)
12-28-2017, 06:35 PM
Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
3m3 minutes ago

As speculation swirls, #Broncos players offer support of Vance Joseph. There's no question they respect him, specifically his honesty in dealing with them. #Denver7 http://bit.ly/2lffHoG

LawDog
12-28-2017, 07:19 PM
Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
3m3 minutes ago

As speculation swirls, #Broncos players offer support of Vance Joseph. There's no question they respect him, specifically his honesty in dealing with them. #Denver7 http://bit.ly/2lffHoG

That and the many weeks of great practices...

Bottom line, players will always prefer winning coaches. And until VJ is not the coach they will all say great things about him. They ain’t stupid. Except McKenzie, he’s a moron.

Tned
12-28-2017, 09:48 PM
You keep this up, and you're going to hurt my feelings . . .

At least he didn't hit you with the dreaded :coffee:

VonDoom
12-29-2017, 02:15 PM
https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/946813727302500352

Denver Native (Carol)
12-29-2017, 02:29 PM
Mike Klis
‏Verified account @MikeKlis
21m21 minutes ago

John Elway, Matt Russell, Gary Kubiak are attending Cotton Bowl tonight. #SamDarnold #Buckeyeplayers #9sports

Cugel
12-29-2017, 02:30 PM
Not sure why everyone is so down on lynch playing. Need to see his development as a QB. In preseason he played part of a gane and got injured in his only start.

IMO he needs to show progress on this game or he will be backup to hopefully cousins.

There is no "Or." The Broncos are showcasing Paxton for several reasons, absolutely none of which involve him ever starting for the Denver Broncos.

#1 - They hope to develop some market for him in a trade (this possibility was expressed by 9News Broncos Insider Mike Klis on The Fan this AM. I was not aware of this possibility). Right now they couldn't trade him for a used condom. But, if he comes out and plays well and doesn't totally suck? They could either manage a trade for him, or else if no acceptable trade materializes they could let him stick around as a 3rd string backup. He would probably have to beat out Chad Kelly though and do any of you think that will happen? Me neither.

#2 - Elway wants to lose this game rather badly. Does anybody think that the decision to start Paxton over Brock was solely VJ's decision? Joseph wants to win games now. Elway wants the #5 or possibly even the #4 pick of the draft, which he can only get if they lose. Hence the decision to start a guy who every sensible person realizes is not really ready to start now - if he ever is.

If Elway can get the #4 pick or #5 pick a move up into the top 2 picks for Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen is entirely possible. Neither wants to play in Cleveland, and frankly it makes far more sense for Cleveland to trade out of that pick, sign a veteran FA QB with their ginormous cap room, and then stockpile talent to build around their QB. They will be picking in the top 10 again next year. They could also trade back to the teens, take a QB like Baker Mayfield or Josh Allen who everybody agrees is a two year project, continue to develop Cody Kessler, and start the veteran - and still pick up an extra first or second round pick.

Will they do this? They're Cleveland so no telling. But, Elway has to be aware of the possibility that the Broncos could very well trade up into the top 2 and get either Darnold or Rosen - if Elway wants to pay the price. And that price will be a lot lower if he has a top 5 pick already. It's just a lot cheaper and easier to move from #4 or #5 to #2 or #1 than to move from #10 to #1.

So, they have an incentive to lose this game. Hence starting Paxton.

There is no way on this green earth they roll into next year hoping for Paxton to develop into a starter. The train has left the station and is moving on.

If they draft a top 5 QB Paxton will never start another game for the team unless that pick flames out and he suddenly blossoms, or else due to injury.

If they don't, if they get a FA veteran like Kirk Cousins (unlikely since he will command over $30m a year) or perhaps Teddy Bridgewater or Case Keenum or maybe Eli Manning (unlikely but possible), then they can use their #4 or #5 pick on a T or any other impact player they like. In that case Paxton could stick around as a backup since he's cheap, but they would need a reliable (if inexpensive) backup and he's not reliable. So, he's probably the #3 QB at best on this roster next year.

Most likely IMO he's cut or traded during the off-season and they just move on, but Elway might still want him around, so who knows.

Ziggy
12-29-2017, 02:43 PM
Cudgel, there isn't a tackle worth the 4 or 5 pick this year.

Rick
12-29-2017, 02:46 PM
I don't see anyway the Broncos can move into the top 2 spots for a QB. Browns won't pass yet again and Giants need to find the replacement for Eli.

Broncos probably can move to #3 if the Colts stay there, but top 2 rated guys will be gone by then. I like them taking Mayfield...give me a guy that reads the defense and completes passes...but at 3?

Cugel
12-29-2017, 02:46 PM
Mike Klis
‏Verified account @MikeKlis
21m21 minutes ago

John Elway, Matt Russell, Gary Kubiak are attending Cotton Bowl tonight. #SamDarnold #Buckeyeplayers #9sports

Doesn't that tell you guys something? Elway is trying to determine whether a trade up in the draft is worth it. And as I explained it might be possible. Either Cleveland or the Giants might want to move that pick and stockpile talent.

Neither Darnold nor Rosen wants to go to Cleveland and the Giants still have Eli Manning, who could possibly play another 3 years or so if they put some talent around him and protected him better. So trading back is possible for both teams.

Normally teams have drafted a QB at #1 or #2, started him for a couple of seasons and sucked during that time. Usually however this results in the coach or GM or both getting fired before they realize any benefit from it because the team loses so many games. Often this results in ruining the QB's career because he's thrown to the wolves on a garbage team before he's ready to start and he gets gun-shy after getting beat on so much early in his career. Or, like Andrew Luck, he develop injuries from the beating he's taking.

With Elway going to so many bowl games it's becoming blindingly obvious he's serious about drafting a QB with the top pick, which could be as high as #4 if the lose. And he could trade up from there if needed.

If they drafted a FA Veteran (Alex Smith? Sam Bradford?) who could start while the rookie learns, he might feel confident that the Broncos were well on their way back to dominating the AFC West.

And does anybody doubt that the Broncos would be playing for the AFC West title this week if they had a decent QB all year?

Cugel
12-29-2017, 02:57 PM
I don't see anyway the Broncos can move into the top 2 spots for a QB. Browns won't pass yet again and Giants need to find the replacement for Eli.

Broncos probably can move to #3 if the Colts stay there, but top 2 rated guys will be gone by then. I like them taking Mayfield...give me a guy that reads the defense and completes passes...but at 3?

The Giants need to find a replacement for Eli, but that does NOT mean they need to draft that replacement at #2. They could keep Eli around for the rest of his career and groom a rookie for a couple of years.

That would be ideal. Their team is total garbage. If they threw someone like Sam Darnold out there he'd be eaten alive. The NY Press and fans are absolutely vicious. You who have never lived in NY don't understand what it's like having real hostile press. Denver's media is a bunch of high school cheerleaders compared with the NY Post, the Daily News and the NY Newsday. All compete to print the most sensational headlines. If you flip the paper over, the back side 1/2 start with sports, announced with giant Screaming headlines. This isn't even mentioning the local daily TV & radio.

They have all been ripping Giants management on a daily basis for some years now. And none of them wants Eli to leave town. The uproar over benching him resulted in John Mara firing their coach and GM.

I'd say he stays, and if he stays and finishes his career in NY, the Giants could trade out of that spot, still draft a great prospect like Josh Allen who might need a couple of years to develop, pick up an extra draft pick or two and still have Eli to start and mentor the kid until he's proven he's ready.

It makes a lot of sense, and they will have to consider it closely. They are doing that right now according to Adam Schefter yesterday.

Who knows what they will decide? But it is definitely possible Elway will be able to move up into the top 2 if he wants to pay the price.

It's true Cleveland got criticized for passing on drafting Carson Wentz, but is either Darnold or Rosen Wentz? Who knows? They might decide they're not. And the same incentives would favor Cleveland trading back and getting a QB in the top 15 like Allen or Mayfield and building around that guy, plus picking up a veteran QB to start for now.

Rick
12-29-2017, 02:59 PM
You who have never lived in NY


How do you know I haven't lived in NY? If you mean NYC you should say that but I lived 13 years in NY...

Cugel
12-29-2017, 03:31 PM
How do you know I haven't lived in NY? If you mean NYC you should say that but I lived 13 years in NY...

That's "you" PLURAL Rick. I.e., "those of you reading this who have not lived in NY" not you in particular. If I meant YOU in particular I would have written "you have probably not lived in NY" implying the singular rather than the plural.

I never considered directing these remarks at you in particular, but if I thought about it, I'd say that people living outside the NYC metro area probably don't get the same saturated coverage from the media as those in the 5 boroughs. Not that it matters much. Some probably do read the Post or the Daily News or Newsday, all of which have saturated sports coverage, most of it negative in tone.

But, the point is: Giants management has to be wary of offending the sensibilities of the public and press a lot more than they do here. After the Joe Pasarchik fumble back in the 70's (the infamous "Miracle of the Meadowlands" that allowed the Eagles to get into the playoffs and threw the Giants out) someone rented a private plane and flew around and around Giants Stadium trailing a banner that read: "15 years of lousy football is enough!" The entire stadium stood and applauded.

Next year they had fired the coach and GM and hired Bill Parcells who drafted Phil Simms and the rest is history.

So, I think they might decide not to fire Eli. That would be by far the most popular decision in NY. And if they keep him that means they don't need to draft a QB who will be ready game 1. Instead they can develop a guy for a couple seasons who is raw like Josh Allen but has tremendous upside potential with a rocket arm and real accuracy, but will need some work.

But, they wouldn't want to do that with the #2 overall pick, so they would trade back. And Denver could trade up.

This might not happen, but it might, and Elway will consider it.

VonDoom
12-29-2017, 03:35 PM
Gettleman already said he wants to keep Eli. Might not stop them from drafting their QBOTF anyway, though

Cugel
12-29-2017, 04:05 PM
Cudgel, there isn't a tackle worth the 4 or 5 pick this year.

No, but they could trade back a bit allowing someone else to trade up and grab a QB, pick up an extra draft pick and still get a star T or TE or pass rusher, etc.

That was my thought, but my post was already too long without talking about that too.

Cugel
12-29-2017, 04:10 PM
Gettleman already said he wants to keep Eli. Might not stop them from drafting their QBOTF anyway, though

Of course they do. But, with Eli staying they don't have to draft Josh Rosen, who might be the most ready. They could trade back and draft Allen or Mayfield and then spend a couple of years developing him behind Eli. Could even trade back a bit further and still get their future franchise QB later in the first round.

VonDoom
12-30-2017, 02:18 PM
https://twitter.com/broncos/status/947183667213987840

Rick
12-30-2017, 02:19 PM
Give him a physical.

Joel
12-31-2017, 03:09 AM
I yelled pointlessly at my TV at lot this season too, so I get it.
We and the team salute your leadership, sir. :salute:


Gettleman already said he wants to keep Eli. Might not stop them from drafting their QBOTF anyway, though
It's interesting that we have no obvious franchise QB candidate and most other teams with bottom ten records do (notwithstanding the common misconception that the presence/absence of a franchise QB singlehandedly defines winning/losing; since the Colts and Giants have worse records than anyone but Cleveland, Luck and Manning must be the worst QBs in the league, just as their fathers were when turning in 6-10 seasons for the Aints and Oilers.)

1. Cleveland always lacks a franchise QB, of course, but especially so after two years of investing their high natural 1sts elsewhere, then waiting til the end of the 2nd for Kizer, a year after making Kessler the last of their three 3rd round picks. Passers drafted only after the team took FOUR other players rarely become franchise QBs.

2. New Yorks Giants have Eli, who hasn't inexplicably transformed from the guy who's 2-0 in SBs against Brady DESPITE an awful line to a guy incapable of beating anyone: The biggest knock on him is that he turns 37 in four days, so only has one or two good years left, but he was and remains a quality QB.

3. Indianapolis has Luck; their problem is that they don't have much ELSE, so spending a rare and painfully earned top five pick on a QB would be doubly stupid.

4. Tampa's in only the third year of Project Winston, who's done well given his youth and a division with not one but TWO of the last three Conference Champs.

5. Houston won't invest a top ten pick as insurance on their rookie #12 overall picks midseason ACL surgery. If only because, like most bottom ten teams, they have too many other problems to double down on solving just one.

6. Chicago's in the same boat as Houston, except that Trubisky's healthy and went #2 overall.

7. New Yorks Jets have NO CLUE what they'll do, so it's pointless for the rest of us to guess. They didn't draft ANY QBs this year, and the QB they took in the middle of last years second round has yet to play a DOWN. So they're theoretically prime candidates to spend a high pick on a QB, but no more than when they spent a higher pick on a safety this year and immediately followed that by drafting yet another safety.

8. San Franciscos trade for Garoppolo seems to be working out, but even if he flames out neither they nor we will see much evidence of it before the 2018 draft. I doubt any Shanahan will ever give up after only half a year coaching a guy he handpicked, especially when himself newly arrived at a dumpster fire he's expected to extinguish.

9. "This Is Us." If we win and Chokeland loses it'll come down to Strength of Victory (unless we're even on that too) but they don't want to replace Carr. Miami and Cincy are the only other 6-9 teams, and both beat, so would draft behind, us, even if they lost and we won. We can't move up much either; we'd have to not only lose, but hope SF wins @Rams, Chicago @Vikings and/or Houston @NE*. None of those teams have clinched homefield, while the Vikings and Rams are battling each other AND Carolina AND New Orleans for the NFCs final bye, so it would take a miracle for a bottom five team to beat any of them on the road.

I'm a strong opponent of drafting primarily for need with a top ten overall. That's an elite talent pool, not the dregs leftover at #20+; elite access should never be wasted on a non-elite player just because he happens to be the best at just ONE of a bottom ten teams many needs. If a team has needs at not only x, y and z but q—w, spending the #4 overall pick on a #49 overall player just because "he fills our need at x" in a really WEAK x class is stupid. In 2011, our 4-3 didn't NEED a 3-4 OLB, but arguably the best player in the whole draft played that position, and we had our pick of anyone but Cam Newton, so we took that 3-4 OLB and redesigned a D around a DRoY who's been an All Pro three times (so far...) and that worked out pretty well. Far better than reaching for a similar quality player with the #22 pick usually does.

All that said, if we're dead set on a QB, we should have a shot at a legit franchise QB prospect unless this draft only has ONE (or none.) The only potential flies in that ointment are the Browns and Jets; unfortunately, God alone knows what their mouthbreathing GMs will do on Draft Day.

MOtorboat
12-31-2017, 03:25 AM
OUT OF NOWHERE TO WIN THE BELT!

#joelbomb
#****brevity

Joel
12-31-2017, 03:48 AM
OUT OF NOWHERE TO WIN THE BELT!

#joelbomb
#****brevity
Well, top ten draft picks involve a minimum of ten teams; take away the two line analysis of the others QB needs and the post is just three short paragraphs:

1) Most other teams drafting in the top ten already spent a high pick on a franchise QB either this year or last, and Cleveland's the only team that thinks taking a QB #3 overall five straight years will turn around a perpetual cellar dweller.

2) I loathe focusing high picks on "needs," for many reasons often stated.

3) IF we insist on going for a QB despite the reasons addressed in #2, our chances of getting a top prospect are far better than usual due to #1.

I still feel Cugel overstates the case against late 1st round QBs (e.g. Brees) but it is true that the only way to get a top QB prospect is to either give away all the other draft picks to move up or have a season like this one. So if we MUST have a top QB prospect NOW, now is precisely when we have the best chance we can hope to get for a while. Because the only way we'll get a better one is to go the route of the Browns and Jets, and I doubt any Broncos fan hopes for THAT.

underrated29
12-31-2017, 11:41 AM
Word is we want that guard from ND. If so, I bet they do go hard after cousins and see what De Jour Kelly can learn behind him. If we do go the guard that does leave us sitting pretty to trade back a bit if we want but also the ability to pull a top T, ILB, CB or DE with our 35th-ish pick. We have lots of ammo this year!

Nomad
12-31-2017, 11:49 AM
Word is we want that guard from ND. If so, I bet they do go hard after cousins and see what De Jour Kelly can learn behind him. If we do go the guard that does leave us sitting pretty to trade back a bit if we want but also the ability to pull a top T, ILB, CB or DE with our 35th-ish pick. We have lots of ammo this year!

Elway is going to be fighting John Lynch for him. I do like this line of thinking.

MOtorboat
12-31-2017, 11:54 AM
Word is we want that guard from ND. If so, I bet they do go hard after cousins and see what De Jour Kelly can learn behind him. If we do go the guard that does leave us sitting pretty to trade back a bit if we want but also the ability to pull a top T, ILB, CB or DE with our 35th-ish pick. We have lots of ammo this year!

And draft Jake Browning.

#winning

dogfish
12-31-2017, 04:26 PM
i just don't get taking nelson over mcglinchey. . . getting a monster LT makes your roster construction SO much easier. . . we already have one studly guard, and mcgovern is promising. . . you can find quality guards later on, especially with high picks in every round. . . plus, there are legit, quality starting OGs available in free agency pretty much every year. . . quality OTs are extremely hard to find in FA. . . unless nelson is head and shoulders, night and day better, stop overthinking it and land the damn tackle. . .

Joel
01-01-2018, 01:00 AM
Word is we want that guard from ND. If so, I bet they do go hard after cousins and see what De Jour Kelly can learn behind him. If we do go the guard that does leave us sitting pretty to trade back a bit if we want but also the ability to pull a top T, ILB, CB or DE with our 35th-ish pick. We have lots of ammo this year!
That'd normally thrill me, because we need a second solid starter and the position's so undervalued that, as you note, a team can often trade back AND get the best G.

However, the closer we get to the #1 overall pick the more I prefer the BPA, because teams drafting that high are teams with far too many needs for a single draft to fill, and thus no business prioritizing any single need among many at the expense of elite talent. Unless you're the Browns, you only get a shot at a DRoY/potential HoFer like Von Miller once every decade or two, especially since even high picks can be busts. Blowing off one of those rare precious shots at the kind of player teams are built around just because we "really need" even a decent player at half a dozen positions is invariably a mistake.

Slightly above average rookies can't transform 4-12 doormats into 12-4 contenders, but bad team capitalizing on the elite talent available through high draft picks can fill remaining holes with "merely good" players after their perennial All Pro raises their draft position so high that the "best available player" isn't a potential HoFer anyway.

The note on the relative quality of our natural second rounder further illustrates that: Our record's so bad this year that our SECOND round pick's about as good as a playoff teams first rounder, so we have a shot at a franchise-changing player AND the kind of quality starter our first round pick would be restricted to in better seasons. For example, Lynch was a #26 overall pick, Roby #31 and Wolfe #36, so that's the kind of player we'll have a decent shot even after chasing a HoFer with our first pick.

Happy 2018, Broncos fans.

Hawgdriver
01-01-2018, 03:15 AM
That'd normally thrill me, because we need a second solid starter and the position's so undervalued that, as you note, a team can often trade back AND get the best G.

However, the closer we get to the #1 overall pick the more I prefer the BPA

From what I have heard, he is the best player available in the draft.

Joel
01-01-2018, 03:45 AM
From what I have heard, he is the best player available in the draft.
Then pull that :censored: trigger, Elway.

Unless the Browns, Colts or Giants beat us to him; given their respective lines, that seems likely if he's really that good. Maybe the Browns go for yet another QB, but the others finished with top three picks despite likely HoFers under center, all because of forcing both to run for their lives most of their careers. Remember how the defining play of Eli Mannings career started? Unless he miraculously escapes a dog pile there's no Helmet Catch, and NE* has historys only 16-game perfect season.