Report: Paxton Lynch expected to close out season as Broncos' QB

[topscribe]

Report here: https://tinyurl.com/y9lct4yr

[GEM]

Oh joy....:dance: :puke: :dance:

[Dreadnought]

Harf

[MOtorboat]

That's the right decision, if that's the case.

[wayninja]

No, it's not. We need to see what we have in Jordan Taylor. Give the kid a shot.

[Rick]

As much as Oz doesn't deserve to sit, they have to put lynch through all the reps they can.

There is a big draft pick/FA period coming up.

[MOtorboat]

No, it's not. We need to see what we have in Jordan Taylor. Give the kid a shot.

This is the only acceptable alternative.

[LawDog]

Great, I wasted $24 on a family four-pack for Broncos-Redskins...

[Timmy!]

Place your bets people. I have him lasting until 10 minutes left in the 3rd.

[wayninja]

Place your bets people. I have him lasting until 10 minutes left in the 3rd.

Do you have any action on crying?

[Timmy!]

What is the over/under on crying?

Umm.......all it says is YES and asks what quarter and how much?

[UnderArmour]

Playing time for the Denver Broncos should be earned, not decided based on draft status. This is the exact reason this team has collapsed this year. Vance Joseph needs to stop listening to the noise from the front office, and start actually leading the team based on what he sees in practice. Guy shouldn't even have a job next year. This is almost as bad as not benching Isiah McKenzie. Brock earned the right to start against Washington.

[aberdien]

Keep Oz to compete for the job next season, let Lynch crash and burn here while he can.

[Dean]

Coupling all the recent IR designations with Lynch starting would lead me to believe that Elway is tanking the team.

[BroncoWave]

Totally wrong decision. There is no salvaging Lynch. Should have kept Brock in these last 2 games to audition for next year.

[turftoad]

Totally wrong decision. There is no salvaging Lynch. Should have kept Brock in these last 2 games to audition for next year.

It's interesting how anyone (even the staff) can say they have seen enough of Lynch in game time situations to make an evaluation in game time speed. The staff wants to see more.
He's played 2 1/2 games.
We are out of the playoffs so IMO it doesn't hurt to throw him out there to either let him sink or swim.

If Brock gets butt hurt again and wants leave, let him.

[MOtorboat]

Totally wrong decision. There is no salvaging Lynch. Should have kept Brock in these last 2 games to audition for next year.

Absolutely, 100 percent, hell no.

If any of these three dudes are vying for the starting position here next year, it’s a massive mistake. Time for change.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

“Winning is the goal, sort of.”

[Northman]

“Winning is the goal, sort of.”

Exactly.

If it was about winning ballgames than they should of have had Lynch start the game against Indy. The message the coaching staff is sending all year doesnt make any sense.

[Bronco4ever]

Well, I'd personally rather watch Oz play halfway competent QB than Lynch run around like a chicken with its head cut off, but we need to see Lynch burn this mother down. It's an unsightly but good decision.

[MOtorboat]

Exactly.

If it was about winning ballgames than they should of have had Lynch start the game against Indy. The message the coaching staff is sending all year doesnt make any sense.

Huh? He wasn’t cleared to play and didn’t practice.

[Northman]

Huh? He wasn’t cleared to play and didn’t practice.

I didnt realize that. Either way, the message of winning ballgames seems to have gone out the window after Oz has a good outing vs Indy. Now all of a sudden with 2 games left they want to see what Lynch has?

[MOtorboat]

I didnt realize that. Either way, the message of winning ballgames seems to have gone out the window after Oz has a good outing vs Indy. Now all of a sudden with 2 games left they want to see what Lynch has?

They wanted to four games ago, but he’s been hurt. The message hasn’t even really changed, just Lynch’s injury status.

[Northman]

They wanted to four games ago, but he’s been hurt. The message hasn’t even really changed, just Lynch’s injury status.

Really? You mean the team didnt want to win games? Thats not how i read all the comments by the players and staff the last two weeks. Clearly Oz is the best option in terms of winning ballgames and if winning games is more important than draft status than surely Oz should be starting. The problem here for me is 2 more games for Lynch still isnt a good measure if you are trying to see what you have. In other words, if you have been frustrated by the QB's we have MO you might as well strap yourself in, because Lynch will be back next year too.

[MOtorboat]

Really? You mean the team didnt want to win games? Thats not how i read all the comments by the players and staff the last two weeks. Clearly Oz is the best option in terms of winning ballgames and if winning games is more important than draft status than surely Oz should be starting. The problem here for me is 2 more games for Lynch still isnt a good measure if you are trying to see what you have. In other words, if you have been frustrated by the QB's we have MO you might as well strap yourself in, because Lynch will be back next year too.

They tried to start Lynch a month ago. I don’t really know what it is that you’re arguing. They weren’t in the playoff hunt then and they aren’t now, but two wins somehow changes the team’s circumstances?

And I’m not worried about myself. Elway is the one who’ll get fired if he keeps running shit out at quarterback.

[Rick]

PL might be back next year but if he doesn't show something huge these last 2 games there will certainly be a rookie taken high

[Northman]

They tried to start Lynch a month ago. I don’t really know what it is that you’re arguing. They weren’t in the playoff hunt then and they aren’t now, but two wins somehow changes the team’s circumstances?

And I’m not worried about myself. Elway is the one who’ll get fired if he keeps running shit out at quarterback.

Im not arguing anything really only stating that the team and coaching staff said they wanted to win games regardless of playoff implications. Starting Lynch is basically throwing in the towel which is fine, but not exactly what they were saying the last two weeks. Never the less, Lynch will be back because the last two games isnt going to tell them anymore than what the first 2 and half games have. And chances are Siemian will be back as well, Oz im not sure.

[Northman]

PL might be back next year but if he doesn't show something huge these last 2 games there will certainly be a rookie taken high

Maybe, maybe not. So far nothing with this team makes a lot of sense to me in terms of Joseph and how they have handled the QB position this year.

[wayninja]

Totally wrong decision. There is no salvaging Lynch. Should have kept Brock in these last 2 games to audition for next year.

Wasn't he already cast in a previous production?

[turftoad]

Exactly.

If it was about winning ballgames than they should of have had Lynch start the game against Indy. The message the coaching staff is sending all year doesnt make any sense.

He wasn't healthy enough to play.

[BroncoWave]

Absolutely, 100 percent, hell no.

If any of these three dudes are vying for the starting position here next year, it’s a massive mistake. Time for change.

I mean audition to be the backup, not starter. Lynch is worthless. Siemian isn't much better. Brock is our best QB and should get the chance to solidify his spot on the roster for next year.

[MOtorboat]

I mean audition to be the backup, not starter. Lynch is worthless. Siemian isn't much better. Brock is our best QB and should get the chance to solidify his spot on the roster for next year.

He can audition for the backup job while holding a clipboard.

[Nomad]

I have zero confidence in Lynch. We'll see what we already know, which is, he's not very good.

[turftoad]

I mean audition to be the backup, not starter. Lynch is worthless. Siemian isn't much better. Brock is our best QB and should get the chance to solidify his spot on the roster for next year.

Brock had one, one good showing against a shitty defense. How doesn't'the make him our best QB?
Us, and the league has seen his body of work and it's not good. If he was even decent he would be playing for Houston or Cleveland.
We've seen Lynch for 2 1/2 games. Not a big body of work.
We really have nothing to lose by letting him get on the field to sink of swim.

[BeefStew25]

Brock is a bronco. He is us.

[turftoad]

Brock is a bronco. He is us.

He could be, rather it's the starter or the clip board holder.
We aren't out much money. Cleveland is paying him. ;)

[Bronco4ever]

I mean audition to be the backup, not starter. Lynch is worthless. Siemian isn't much better. Brock is our best QB and should get the chance to solidify his spot on the roster for next year.

Unfortunately with cap numbers, it's far more likely Brock is the odd man out next year. Siemian is cheap, Lynch has a decent dead salary if cut, and we'll draft and/or sign a FA QB. As much as Brock has earned to start more than Lynch has, we need to let Lynch sink or swim and plan for the future, because Brock is most likely not a part of it.

Bottom line is letting Brock start is giving starts to a guy who has no future here. At least starting Lynch will help decide the direction for our QBOTF, even if the dude sucks and is awful to watch.

[topscribe]

Brock had one, one good showing against a shitty defense. How doesn't'the make him our best QB?
Us, and the league has seen his body of work and it's not good. If he was even decent he would be playing for Houston or Cleveland.
We've seen Lynch for 2 1/2 games. Not a big body of work.
We really have nothing to lose by letting him get on the field to sink of swim.
Well actually, Brock had a few decent to good showings for us in 2015. What he did in Houston
and Cleveland doesn't concern me a lot because I don't know all the circumstances there. What
he has done and is doing here carries more weight because we do know more.

I'm not into disparaging Lynch because 4½ games aren't really enough to know much about
him, except that he does need to show better accuracy in his passes and better decisions. The
decisions part can come with experience. The accuracy might or might not come around. It
didn't for Tebow, you remember. But, were it me, I would play Brock out the rest of the year.
But what do I know?

[BroncoWave]

Can we please stop it with the "Brock couldn't cut it in Cleveland" nonsense? They only traded for his contract and never had any intentions of keeping him. They were going with Kizer all along. They needed a contract to hit the salary floor, and Brock did that for them. He was never actually in the plans.

Plus, it's the ****ing 0-14 Browns. If they evaluated Brock as not being worthy of being on their roster, I'd consider that a plus for Brock, as they seem generally awful in evaluating talent.

[turftoad]

Well actually, Brock had a few decent to good showings for us in 2015. What he did in Houston
and Cleveland doesn't concern me a lot because I don't know all the circumstances there. What
he has done and is doing here carries more weight because we do know more.

I'm not into disparaging Lynch because 4½ games aren't really enough to know much about
him, except that he does need to show better accuracy in his passes and better decisions. The
decisions part can come with experience. The accuracy might or might not come around. It
didn't for Tebow, you remember. But, were it me, I would play Brock out the rest of the year.
But what do I know?

Fair enough Top. However. They did spend a 1st rounder on Lynch and Brock screwed us over.

They want to see him in game time not just practice. They have been trying to get him on the field.

When we drafted Lynch they knew he was going to be a 2-3 year project. How has that changed!

I want to see him and so does the team. I think we are in the same boat.

I've said it before. Get him out there and see if he sinks or swims. We or the the coaching staff deserves that or else he's probably gone.

[topscribe]

Fair enough Top. However. They did spend a 1st rounder on Lynch and Brock screwed us over.

They want to see him in game time not just practice. They have been trying to get him on the field.

When we drafted Lynch they knew he was going to be a 2-3 year project. How has that changed!

I want to see him and so does the team. I think we are in the same boat.

I've said it before. Get him out there and see if he sinks or swims. We or the the coaching staff deserves that or else he's probably gone.
It is somewhat of a conundrum, to be sure. The implication I intended was that I prefer playing
the season out with Brock, but I'm not pounding the table for it. I realize that the Broncos need
to see whether they can protect their investment in Lynch. Which puts me almost on the fence
on the matter. So if they play Lynch, I won't be putting any holes in the wall. :)

[Mike]

So how do you sell this to the lockerroom? Brock clearly outplayed Paxton. Paxton clearly has not been ready to play. So, as a player, how do you see a move like this? This doesn't give the team the best chance to win....so what is the point in anyone putting in the effort.

Most everyone knows what we have in Paxton. But I doubt he gets cut next year because of cap implications, so he will have a chance in camp to show improvements (not as the starter or a challenger for the starter), but as a backup. Revisit his potential next year.

I am no Brock fan...I hated him being brought back. But this is not a good move as far as how the players and team are concerned. This sends the wrong message.

[Dreadnought]

Brock is a bronco. He is us.

No Brock, no 2015 Superbowl - its really that simple. He was excellent in 2015 v. the Pats, and Brilliant v. the Bengals, late in the Season, in a high pressure game

[slim]

The coaching staff finally makes a good decision and youse guys can't even see the beauty of it.

[BroncoWave]

No Brock, no 2015 Superbowl - its really that simple. He was excellent in 2015 v. the Pats, and Brilliant v. the Bengals, late in the Season, in a high pressure game

100%. He'll never get the appreciation he deserves from broncos fans for how much he helped us get that ring, but he was definitely a huge part of it.

[slim]

100%. He'll never get the appreciation he deserves from broncos fans for how much he helped us get that ring, but he was definitely a huge part of it.

2015 has nothing to do with this decision.

[BroncoWave]

2015 has nothing to do with this decision.

I didn't say it did. That was an unrelated thought in response to Dread's post.

The fact that he is currently our best QB absolutely should factor into the decision though.

[slim]

I didn't say it did. That was an unrelated thought in response to Dread's post.

The fact that he is currently our best QB absolutely should factor into the decision though.

Negative. If he is willing to sign in the off season for backup QB $$, he is likely to be our backup QB next year. He doesn't really need to prove that to anyone, IMO.

[Nomad]

The coaching staff finally makes a good decision and youse guys can't even see the beauty of it.

You just wanna lose. #tanker. :D

Mike got it right. Read his post

[Cugel]

Coupling all the recent IR designations with Lynch starting would lead me to believe that Elway is tanking the team.

I certainly hope so! What conceivable good would winning 2 more games under Brock Osweiler? They're out of the playoffs! There's nothing to play for except draft status now.

Oz is an UFA after the season. Paxton is under contract for 2 more years. Now here is reality 101:

Elway is going to try and land his franchise QB in the draft, or in FA (Kirk Cousins, Teddy Bridgewater, etc.). Either way he doesn't need to see anything from Brock.

If he drafts a QB in the top 10 that QB must play in his rookie year - as soon as he's ready. Exactly like what the Texans did with DeShaun Watson where they started Tom Savage until the rookie was ready.

Now, either they try and re-sign Osweiler to a low-ball contract to be the economical starter until the rookie is ready or else go out in FA and do that (i.e. not Kirk Cousins or some $25m a year QB, but a backup QB who will know his role).

Either way there's ZERO incentive to give Osweiler 2 more games to pump up his FA contract position. Screw that! If he played well in 4 more games he'd get a lot more money $$$.

Right now, if the Broncos want to keep Osweiler, they won't have much competition.

On the other hand it's more likely they just have decided to part ways with him after the season. In that case, what more do they need to see? Nothing. They would be saying "Osweiler might have a few good games against not terribly good teams, but no way are we committing to him long-term as our Franchise QB."

Playing well as a starter when defenses are game-planning against you is very different than coming in off the bench when nobody is expecting you. Brock does pretty well in spot duty for a game or 2. But, would you really trust him long term?

No. And if the answer is still "no" then screw it.

They need to tank 2 more games under Paxton. See if he's capable of doing anything and get the highest draft pick they can manage. 5 wins is already too many, but VJ needed to secure his position as coach coming back next year, which he did.

Now they just need to lose 2, get that #5 overall selection and be in position to move up to #2 for Sam Darnold or something.

Win two under Brock and how would anything be better next year? Did the meaningless win against the Raiders in week 17 last year help them? No. It just cost them draft stock.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

So how do you sell this to the lockerroom? Brock clearly outplayed Paxton. Paxton clearly has not been ready to play. So, as a player, how do you see a move like this? This doesn't give the team the best chance to win....so what is the point in anyone putting in the effort.

Most everyone knows what we have in Paxton. But I doubt he gets cut next year because of cap implications, so he will have a chance in camp to show improvements (not as the starter or a challenger for the starter), but as a backup. Revisit his potential next year.

I am no Brock fan...I hated him being brought back. But this is not a good move as far as how the players and team are concerned. This sends the wrong message.

The players aren’t stupid. They know all they’re playing for at this point is pride, performance bonuses, and auditioning for next year if it’s a contract year.

I love how the folks screaming to see Henderson get reps at RB because the season is over are the same folks screaming for Brock to start so we can “have the best chance to win” meaningless games and thereby potentially **** up our draft position. I agree with getting Henderson involved alongside Lynch.

Hell, if I was the coaching staff, I’d shut down all the starters. Lattimer and Taylor would be starting WRs. Heuerman at TE. Henderson and Booker would get all the carries, etc.

[Cugel]

Now, if Paxton does what everybody expects: goes out and sucks and gets hurt, then fine. He's officially done, and there's a roster spot available for Chad Kelly.

If, on the other hand, he shows some faint signs of life, then obviously they have some hope going forward that he might eventually become useful. Because they can't even get a draft pick for him now.

He would have to suddenly start playing like Ben Roethlisberger before they would commit to him long term as their starter though. They are going to draft a QB and either retain Osweiler, or else sign a veteran FA.

If they go after and land Kirk Cousins, then the QB they take in the draft probably won't be in the 1st. They could land a developmental QB in the later rounds to come in and compete with Kelly & Lynch to be the backup.

If they don't sign Cousins or Bridewater or some $20+ m a year QB, then they will try and rush the rookie QB onto the field, and will just need a veteran to win some games until the rookie is ready.

EDIT: One other possibility I discount is that they would get rid of Osweiler and keep Trevor around. He's under contract for next year and he's cheap. He would start until the rookie is ready in this scenario. I don't believe this, but it's possible.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
So how do you sell this to the lockerroom? Brock clearly outplayed Paxton. Paxton clearly has not been ready to play. So, as a player, how do you see a move like this? This doesn't give the team the best chance to win....so what is the point in anyone putting in the effort.

Most everyone knows what we have in Paxton. But I doubt he gets cut next year because of cap implications, so he will have a chance in camp to show improvements (not as the starter or a challenger for the starter), but as a backup. Revisit his potential next year.

I am no Brock fan...I hated him being brought back. But this is not a good move as far as how the players and team are concerned. This sends the wrong message.

Here's what they can say to the players:

"You went out and lost 8 straight games. You are the ones who sucked and are out of the playoffs. Not John Elway. You. So, you get no say in who starts the last two games of a lost, losing season. If the team was competing for a playoff spot, would there be any talk about starting Paxton to "see what we have in the young player?" No!

Now, Elway can be blamed for picking some inferior players in the draft & FA (Menelik Watson comes to mind). But, said players cannot complain "We suck! You shouldn't have picked us!"

If you want to have some say in who plays, then win some games. Compete for the division. Do that and nobody will be messing around starting some rookie or inexperienced backup in game 15.

"A lot of you will not be back with our team next season, because winning 5 games is not Broncos football. So, we're going to evaluate the younger players now, just like other losing teams do. It sucks, but you lost too many games to save the season. That ship sailed a month ago."

[topscribe]

2015 has nothing to do with this decision.
Well, yes it should, really. It helps to show what Brock at least is capable of. Remember,
that was his first year as starter on the field, and he acquitted himself well, IMO.

[Cugel]

I didn't say it did. That was an unrelated thought in response to Dread's post.

The fact that he is currently our best QB absolutely should factor into the decision though.

Why? Is he going to be so awesome that the Broncos win 4 more games with 2 left in the season? No.

So, they're not making the playoffs are they? And if NOT then what advantage is there in winning 2 meaningless games? It just hurts your draft stock.

Every argument I've heard about "a culture of winning" blah, blah, blah, means nothing. You know how to create a winning team? Draft an elite QB, develop him and have him start playing like Carson Wentz! That's how!

Alternatively, sign or trade for Kirk Cousins, Drew Brees, or Case Keenum and try and win another SB with a veteran FA.

I'm OK with either decision, but what is NOT OK is to roll into next season thinking that Paxton, Trevor or Brock is a long term answer at QB. Not again!

What is NOT OK is to miss the playoffs, but win 7 games and get the #14 pick or something. Screw that! We need an elite QB and Elway is clearly going all in to secure one.

Good for him.

[Rick]

I think you are being unfair about the Watson signing.

He sucked, I get it, but the only concern when he was signed was his ability to stay healthy, there were no concerns that I recall about his actual ability as a blocker, quite the opposite in-fact.

[Rick]

If they get fooled into signing Keenum to a large contract I may not bother with next year.

[Cugel]

Well, yes it should, really. It helps to show what Brock at least is capable of. Remember,
that was his first year as starter on the field, and he acquitted himself well, IMO.

If Brock is not going to be back next year, what difference does it make "what he is capable of?"

What your criticism amounts to is "I think they should give Brock a chance to become the Franchise QB for next year." Well, Elway clearly has zero intention of that or Brock would be playing.

Elway is all in on finding an elite QB and Osweiler was never that. HE was the #56 pick of the draft and having him become a top 10 QB was always a long shot. After he flamed out in Houston, it because a ridiculous long shot. He was brought in as a veteran backup because he was cheap and they couldn't rely on Paxton to stay healthy if Trevor went down.

It comes down to this: Elway clearly made up his mind about Brock. If he's back next year it will be as a backup or a short-term starter until the rookie is ready.

Playing him now would only make him more expensive in FA, or take playing time away from other players they intend to keep on the roster (Paxton) who would be cheaper.

[Cugel]

If they get fooled into signing Keenum to a large contract I may not bother with next year.

First of all, Keenum has played incredibly well. Second he's under contract with the Vikings for next year, so it would have to be a trade. Logically, it's more likely they trade Teddy Bridgewater because he's a FA, but they love Bridgewater and not Keenum, so the thinking is they franchise Bridgewater and keep Keenum as a backup in case Bridewater can't recover from injury.

But, QB controversies don't usually lead to SBs, so Keenum might be available and Kirk Cousins might not because how stupid can the Redskins be? Drew Brees and Eli Manning will probably finish their careers with NY and NO. Who else is there as FAs?

Alex Smith? Pass.

[Rick]

Keenum is NOT under contract next year, and I feel this year is a fluke. I believe he is closer to the QB that played with the Rams for those 2 season and will typically be a 60% completion, mid 80's rating QB.

Solid but not our franchise guy.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/case-keenum-10079/

[Cugel]

I think you are being unfair about the Watson signing.

He sucked, I get it, but the only concern when he was signed was his ability to stay healthy, there were no concerns that I recall about his actual ability as a blocker, quite the opposite in-fact.

There were concerns about his pass blocking for sure. They signed a guy with serious injury concerns and serious talent concerns because he was cheap - about 1/2 what a really GOOD FA RT Reilly Reiff got a "5 year, $58,750,000 contract with the Minnesota Vikings, including a $11,000,000 signing bonus, $26,300,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $11,750,000."

He's done great. But, he did cost a lot of money and Elway wasn't willing to pay. So, the OL has sucked for another year.


"We are through eleven games of the 2017 regular season, and Reiff has still not been credited as having given up a quarterback sack. The entire offensive line, for the season, has allowed twelve, but Reiff’s protection of Case Keenum’s blindside has been a huge part of why this offensive line is performing at a level far beyond what we could have expected after last season’s debacle.

Reiff has also made his presence felt in the run game, too, bolstering a rushing attack that was the worst in the NFL in 2016. Even with the absence of star rookie Dalvin Cook, the Vikings’ run offense hasn’t missed a beat, and the performance of Latavius Murray and Jerick McKinnon thus far can be attributed to Reiff and the rest of the offensive line.

Reiff is clearly one of the leaders on this team, and he’s even more clearly the leader of this offensive line. As I said earlier, I know that most of us were expecting Reiff to be an improvement over what the team had at left tackle last season, if only because it would have been damn near impossible not to be. But I think I can quite safely say that he has exceeded everyone’s expectations, and is as much of a reason as anyone else for this team currently being at 9-2 and fighting for home field advantage in the NFC playoffs.

Menelik Watson on the other hand, had missed over 1/2 his eligible games due to injury during his entire career and when he was in there looked like a small speed bump against pass-rushers. That story didn't change in 2017. He's on IR again. Why would they think that would change? Crossing your fingers? Hope for the best?

[aberdien]

2015 is in the past, Brock is a different QB now. Nostalgia is bad.

[Cugel]

Keenum is NOT under contract next year, and I feel this year is a fluke. I believe he is closer to the QB that played with the Rams for those 2 season and will typically be a 60% completion, mid 80's rating QB.

Solid but not our franchise guy.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/case-keenum-10079/

You are right. I thought he was under contract. He's a UFA. That just means they have to choose between him and Bridgewater really, because they'd have to franchise Bridgewater and sign Keenum to a long term deal or the reverse if they were to keep both.

But, if Keenum is a fluke, what is Osweiler? Not even a good fluke. I have no opinion on whether Keenum is Elway's guy or not. Someone is going to give Keenum around $20m a year. Whether that works out or not is an open question.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Lynch is a bust. I never want to see him play again, for the Broncos anyway.

Oz had about as good a game as you can get for a QB last week, why not see if he can duplicate it.

If you could get OZ on the cheap and have him be ok with being a back-up next year I think it would be a good thing. Especially if we get a rookie QB in the draft.

[Rick]

I don't want Keenum OR Oz getting 20 million here. We escaped a mistake when Oz choose Houston. That salary we offered him was too much for the limited results he had for us.

Sign me up for one of these:

Cousins at the 30 mil price 4-5 years. Yes, we can find a way to pay it. Use the top 10 pick on a LT.
Bridgewater on a 4-5 year deal 20 mil range. Hope they can put some escape clauses in there for injury concerns. Use top 10 pick on a LT.
Brees on a 2 year deal near 30 mil. Need to find a way to draft someone high.
Bradford on a 2 year deal in the 12-15 mil range. Need to draft someone high.

[aberdien]

I want Bridgewater.

[Cugel]

I don't want Keenum OR Oz getting 20 million here. We escaped a mistake when Oz choose Houston. That salary we offered him was too much for the limited results he had for us.

Sign me up for one of these:

Cousins at the 30 mil price 4-5 years. Yes, we can find a way to pay it. Use the top 10 pick on a LT.
Bridgewater on a 4-5 year deal 20 mil range. Hope they can put some escape clauses in there for injury concerns. Use top 10 pick on a LT.
Brees on a 2 year deal near 30 mil. Need to find a way to draft someone high.
Bradford on a 2 year deal in the 12-15 mil range. Need to draft someone high.

I hope you will be fine with blowing up the roster in order to afford any of these players (I don't want Bradford so forget that).

#1 - They will need close to $30m a year for either Brees (if he's available which is doubtful) or Cousins (somewhat likely).

#2 - to free up that much cap room they would have to dump salary and the players earning the most are Aqib Talib $12m, DT $15m (that's his cap hit from cutting him), Sanders $11m and CJ $4.5m. They would need to cut at least 3 of these players to get enough cap savings.

They tried to trade DT during the season, but failed, and presumably they will try again this off-season, but they might have to eat some of his salary which isn't ideal.

Sanders was their most reliable WR. Can they really afford to dump him? But, if they are stuck with DT, then moving Sanders and dumping his $11m makes more sense.

Talib can be replaced by Roby so he's almost certainly gone. But, him and CJ combined only saves them $15.5m, which is not nearly enough.

So, if they are all in on Cousins, they probably have to trade or release Aqib+ DT or Sanders + CJ.

They will also be unable to go out and strengthen their weaknesses via FA because they need the money at QB. So, no RT or RG or pass-rushing interior DL like Calais Campbell they tried to sign last year.

[Cugel]

I want Bridgewater.

More likely the Vikings keep Bridewater than Keenum though.

[Davii]

I hope you will be fine with blowing up the roster in order to afford any of these players (I don't want Bradford so forget that).

#1 - They will need close to $30m a year for either Brees (if he's available which is doubtful) or Cousins (somewhat likely).

#2 - to free up that much cap room they would have to dump salary and the players earning the most are Aqib Talib $12m, DT $15m (that's his cap hit from cutting him), Sanders $11m and CJ $4.5m. They would need to cut at least 3 of these players to get enough cap savings.

They tried to trade DT during the season, but failed, and presumably they will try again this off-season, but they might have to eat some of his salary which isn't ideal.

Sanders was their most reliable WR. Can they really afford to dump him? But, if they are stuck with DT, then moving Sanders and dumping his $11m makes more sense.

Talib can be replaced by Roby so he's almost certainly gone. But, him and CJ combined only saves them $15.5m, which is not nearly enough.

So, if they are all in on Cousins, they probably have to trade or release Aqib+ DT or Sanders + CJ.

They will also be unable to go out and strengthen their weaknesses via FA because they need the money at QB. So, no RT or RG or pass-rushing interior DL like Calais Campbell they tried to sign last year.

According to overthecap.com we were nearly 12 million under the cap this year, the cap is projected to go up ~10 million again this year, between cutting players and restructuring others we can easily fit an expensive QB on this roster. While I agree that won't leave us much room to bring in veteran OL players it is certainly not "blowing up the team" like you want us all to believe.

[Mike]

Lynch is a bust. I never want to see him play again, for the Broncos anyway.

Oz had about as good a game as you can get for a QB last week, why not see if he can duplicate it.

If you could get OZ on the cheap and have him be ok with being a back-up next year I think it would be a good thing. Especially if we get a rookie QB in the draft.

I don't think we can be rid of Paxton. Siemian can be cut without any $$ issues, Oz has no $$ issues since it was a 1 year contract. I think we are stuck with Lynch due to dead money. Cheaper to keep her.

I don't think Brock will be a cheap backup option.

[underrated29]

Surprised this is such a long thread. Here are the facts that we know:


1. Brock is our best QB and he still sucks compared to every.single.other.qb.in.the.league.
2. We must know for sure about Lynch. If he sucks we get a better draft spot and can then get us a good QB. IF he doesn't then maybe he can be polished. We need to know for sure.
3. We cannot make the playoffs so finding out what we have in players is the smart thing to do. The correct thing to do. We know what brock is/has.
4. Brock will be back next year and it will be on the cheap cheap cheap!


My hunch still says that we keep brock and lynch and Kelly for next year. The dilemma comes with us taking one of the top QBs or trying to get Kelly up to par. Kelly has been getting great merits from the FO. So maybe those three can be the ticket.

I personally will not be upset with either Kelly or a high pick of the big 5 (rosen,darnold,mayfield,lamar,allen)

[Mike]

I think they can afford a QB in the 20-25 year range without doing anything this year.

They will let Watson go.

I also think Talib will stay...and he should. The Broncos need Talib.

Would like to dump DTs salary, but doubt that will happen.

[topscribe]

If Brock is not going to be back next year, what difference does it make "what he is capable of?"

What your criticism amounts to is "I think they should give Brock a chance to become the Franchise QB for next year." Well, Elway clearly has zero intention of that or Brock would be playing.

Elway is all in on finding an elite QB and Osweiler was never that. HE was the #56 pick of the draft and having him become a top 10 QB was always a long shot. After he flamed out in Houston, it because a ridiculous long shot. He was brought in as a veteran backup because he was cheap and they couldn't rely on Paxton to stay healthy if Trevor went down.

It comes down to this: Elway clearly made up his mind about Brock. If he's back next year it will be as a backup or a short-term starter until the rookie is ready.

Playing him now would only make him more expensive in FA, or take playing time away from other players they intend to keep on the roster (Paxton) who would be cheaper.
You're assuming Brock won't be back next year. Maybe he won't, but you don't know that.

[Rick]

I hope you will be fine with blowing up the roster in order to afford any of these players (I don't want Bradford so forget that).

#1 - They will need close to $30m a year for either Brees (if he's available which is doubtful) or Cousins (somewhat likely).

#2 - to free up that much cap room they would have to dump salary and the players earning the most are Aqib Talib $12m, DT $15m (that's his cap hit from cutting him), Sanders $11m and CJ $4.5m. They would need to cut at least 3 of these players to get enough cap savings.

They tried to trade DT during the season, but failed, and presumably they will try again this off-season, but they might have to eat some of his salary which isn't ideal.

Sanders was their most reliable WR. Can they really afford to dump him? But, if they are stuck with DT, then moving Sanders and dumping his $11m makes more sense.

Talib can be replaced by Roby so he's almost certainly gone. But, him and CJ combined only saves them $15.5m, which is not nearly enough.

So, if they are all in on Cousins, they probably have to trade or release Aqib+ DT or Sanders + CJ.

They will also be unable to go out and strengthen their weaknesses via FA because they need the money at QB. So, no RT or RG or pass-rushing interior DL like Calais Campbell they tried to sign last year.

I already said in my post that it would be 30 mil for Brees or Cousins, you didn't need to repeat that.

Have you been paying attention to NFL off seasons long? It is probably the easiest sport to free up salary cap while not having to make many changes. Plus the cap raises every year. The only loss, which is a big loss, that I see possibly happening is the loss of Talib. I think you would be stupid to bring in a franchise guy at QB and then ditch his best target.

[Davii]

I don't think we can be rid of Paxton. Siemian can be cut without any $$ issues, Oz has no $$ issues since it was a 1 year contract. I think we are stuck with Lynch due to dead money. Cheaper to keep her.

I don't think Brock will be a cheap backup option.

It would cost about 4.4 mil to cut Paxton, a loss of ~2 mil over having him. Trevor would cost us about 22k to cut.

[topscribe]

Surprised this is such a long thread. Here are the facts that we know:


1. Brock is our best QB and he still sucks compared to every.single.other.qb.in.the.league.
Bad timing. That would have been better said before the last game. In that game, Brock was
directly responsible for all three TDs, with a passer rating of 147.7 and a QBR of 99.2 (the
highest rating of any QB in the league this year.) That was just one game, I understand, but
still bad timing . . .

[Davii]

Bad timing. That would have been better said before the last game. In that game, Brock was
directly responsible for all three TDs, with a passer rating of 147.7 and a QBR of 99.2 (the
highest rating of any QB in the league this year.) That was just one game, I understand, but
still bad timing . . .

Not really Top, sustained performance is what matters, not a single game. Sure, it looks great, but it won't get Brock starter money anywhere next year.

[BroncoWave]

Bad timing. That would have been better said before the last game. In that game, Brock was
directly responsible for all three TDs, with a passer rating of 147.7 and a QBR of 99.2 (the
highest rating of any QB in the league this year.) That was just one game, I understand, but
still bad timing . . .

And UR, before you reply to this with "yeah but the colts", 13 other QBs played the colts this year and didn't put up that kind of qbr.

[Davii]

And UR, before you reply to this with "yeah but the colts", 13 other QBs played the colts this year and didn't put up that kind of qbr.

Snopes rates this comment as True.

[turftoad]

I want Bridgewater.

I don't get why everyone is so high on Bridgewater.
He hasn't proven anything yet. When he did play it's not like he was lighting it up.
Yes he's a feel good/underdog story but he hasn't done shit yet!

[turftoad]

Bad timing. That would have been better said before the last game. In that game, Brock was
directly responsible for all three TDs, with a passer rating of 147.7 and a QBR of 99.2 (the
highest rating of any QB in the league this year.) That was just one game, I understand, but
still bad timing . . .

Against a horse shit defense at that.

[MOtorboat]

I don't get why everyone is so high on Bridgewater.
He hasn't proven anything yet. When he did play it's not like he was lighting it up.
Yes he's a feel good/underdog story but he hasn't done shit yet!

He was pretty good in 2015.

[topscribe]

Against a horse shit defense at that.
True, the defense wasn't the greatest. But if you study Brock's TD passes, and a few of the
others, he passed into some extremely tight windows. Bad defense or not, his passing was
very impressive in that game.

[aberdien]

I don't get why everyone is so high on Bridgewater.
He hasn't proven anything yet. When he did play it's not like he was lighting it up.
Yes he's a feel good/underdog story but he hasn't done shit yet!

I like that he seems like a solid QB who is intelligent and humble.

[topscribe]

Not really Top, sustained performance is what matters, not a single game. Sure, it looks great, but it won't get Brock starter money anywhere next year.
I think I qualified that sufficiently . . .

[turftoad]

I like that he seems like a solid QB who is intelligent and humble.

Yes he is a good guy! So was Tebow.

[aberdien]

Brock had 1 good game in 2 years wow i'm very impressed

[turftoad]

Brock had 1 good game in 2 years wow i'm very impressed

Exactly!

[aberdien]

Yes he is a good guy! So was Tebow.
Do you seriously think Tebow's QB skills compare to Teddy's?

[Rick]

I don't get why everyone is so high on Bridgewater.
He hasn't proven anything yet. When he did play it's not like he was lighting it up.
Yes he's a feel good/underdog story but he hasn't done shit yet!

He has potential and his game was trending upwards.

I have major concerns about that injury, but he was accurate with the ball and looking like he was developing nicely.

I would offer Cousins more, but Bridgewater will get paid.

[turftoad]

Do you seriously think Tebow's QB skills compare to Teddy's?

Post injury, we don't know that yet. Pre injury, we still don't know either.

[MOtorboat]

Post injury, we don't know that yet. Pre injury, we still don't know either.

He’s light years better than Tebow. He was quite clearly a superior quarterback pre injury. Let’s all take a moment to remember how historically awful Tebow was at the position.

[MOtorboat]

Thank you for the moment of reflection. Please go about your business.

[aberdien]

Post injury, we don't know that yet. Pre injury, we still don't know either.
True their QB numbers look identical

https://i.imgur.com/2K6U0mr.png

[Northman]

I don't get why everyone is so high on Bridgewater.
He hasn't proven anything yet. When he did play it's not like he was lighting it up.
Yes he's a feel good/underdog story but he hasn't done shit yet!

Agreed, i never got the love for him either. In the two years he has played before the injury he has thrown 28 Td's and 22 Int's and been sacked 83 times. Considering he is a hybrid scrambler thats not good at all. There is nothing there that screams at me that he is in demand for any team.

[underrated29]

And UR, before you reply to this with "yeah but the colts", 13 other QBs played the colts this year and didn't put up that kind of qbr.



And what did he do in the other game or two that he started when Trevor got benched and Pax was hurt?
And what did he do as a texans QB.
And what did he do here before he was a texan


He is our best QB. He still sucks. If anyone thinks he is a QBofthe future or better than any other QB in the league you are still riding the colts game and are going to have a rough rough landing.

[topscribe]

And what did he do in the other game or two that he started when Trevor got benched and Pax was hurt?
He was okay. Rusty. Working with new terminology without the benefit of an offseason with the team.


And what did he do as a texans QB.
As I implied earlier, who cares? That was a different system, and we don't know all the circumstances.


And what did he do here before he was a texan
You don't want to go there. Without Brock, the Broncos don't go to the SB, let alone win it . . .

[underrated29]

He was okay. Rusty. Working with new terminology without the benefit of an offseason with the team.


As I implied earlier, who cares? That was a different system, and we don't know all the circumstances.


You don't want to go there. Without Brock, the Broncos don't go to the SB, let alone win it . . .


While I agree we dont win or get to the SB without him. He won what? 2 games and lost 3? or soemthing like that.


None of that matters or changes anything though. He still sucks. He is our best QB, but compared to the rest of the league he still sucks.
Donald Stephenson is our best RT and guess what, he still sucks. He is the worst in the league too, but he is the best one we have. I am not sure why there is all of this contention with brock. Everyone knows he is our best QB, but that does not matter at all. We arent making the playoffs this year and we need to know if Lynch can make it a race with brock or if we need to burn a 1st on a QB.

Brock will be back. He will come in at the same price. He will be our vet and maybe we bring in a cousins or eli, etc. He will be here to compete. Chances are (IMO) that Kelly, the FA or draft pick will beat him out. Still, he sucks. And we must know with 100% certainty that we cannot coach up Lynch.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It would cost about 4.4 mil to cut Paxton, a loss of ~2 mil over having him. Trevor would cost us about 22k to cut.

I could go either way on this.

[BroncoWave]

While I agree we dont win or get to the SB without him. He won what? 2 games and lost 3? or soemthing like that.


None of that matters or changes anything though. He still sucks. He is our best QB, but compared to the rest of the league he still sucks.
Donald Stephenson is our best RT and guess what, he still sucks. He is the worst in the league too, but he is the best one we have. I am not sure why there is all of this contention with brock. Everyone knows he is our best QB, but that does not matter at all. We arent making the playoffs this year and we need to know if Lynch can make it a race with brock or if we need to burn a 1st on a QB.

Brock will be back. He will come in at the same price. He will be our vet and maybe we bring in a cousins or eli, etc. He will be here to compete. Chances are (IMO) that Kelly, the FA or draft pick will beat him out. Still, he sucks. And we must know with 100% certainty that we cannot coach up Lynch.

Brock went 5-2 as our starter that year. Nice try, though.

[Cugel]

Just shut the F up with this Tebow crap. You're just doing it to troll everybody. Tebow is long retired. Makes as much sense today as comparing Trevor to Joe Montana. He's retired too. :coffee:

[underrated29]

Brock went 5-2 as our starter that year. Nice try, though.



Meh, whatever it was.

[Cugel]

Brock will be back. He will come in at the same price. He will be our vet and maybe we bring in a cousins or eli, etc. He will be here to compete. Chances are (IMO) that Kelly, the FA or draft pick will beat him out. Still, he sucks. And we must know with 100% certainty that we cannot coach up Lynch.

Brock cannot come back at "the same price." He earned $37m guaranteed for 2 years under his Houston contract. They hated him so much they paid Cleveland a 2nd round pick to get rid of him. Cleveland didn't want him they wanted the pick so they cut him. He came here for the veteran minimum.

Next year he's going to get backup money somewhere, and that's at least $6m.

From the fact they are not just naming him the starter after the last 2 games we can conclude he's probably not in their future plans.

Mike Pritchard: "At this point, why did the Broncos even draft Paxton Lynch? They probably panicked a bit because of the Brock Osweiler situation, and thought, ok, he's a two or 3 year project but we can buy time. But, you can't miss on first round picks like that, especially not a QB. Now, it's at a point where if he doesn't wow the Broncos have to turn the page. "

Cecil Lammey: "You have to see progress from your QB, while Paxton Lynch has regressed while still remaining checked out. Right now he's at the point, Paxton Lynch --its too late. I don't care if he throws for 800 yards the next two games. It's too late. That's why he was crying on the sidelines. It wasn't his damn ankle. It's because he realized "it's over. You're done."

I think he's right, but they will have to see it on the field. Right now Paxton is playing for a backup job in the NFL.

[Rick]

I don't believe that at all.

If PL were to come in and be lights out, they might still get a Bradford or Smith to compete but they won't be taking a guy top 10 and they won't be chasing a Cousins.

But he would have to light it up...

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck
52m52 minutes ago

#Broncos Lynch clearly still working through some ankle soreness. That's why no decision has been made yet. #Denver7

Troy Renck‏Verified account @TroyRenck
55m55 minutes ago

#Broncos Osweiler and Lynch at practice. If decision based on performance, Brock would start. But team out of playoffs and wants to get another look at Lynch if ankle shows healthy at practice #Denver7

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Mike Klis‏Verified account @MikeKlis
39m39 minutes ago

Hard to tell but didn't look like Brock Osweiler was getting cheated out of drills or reps. We'll see what Vance Joseph has to say in a few. #9sports

[Cugel]

I don't believe that at all.

If PL were to come in and be lights out, they might still get a Bradford or Smith to compete but they won't be taking a guy top 10 and they won't be chasing a Cousins.

But he would have to light it up...

Reality is completely the opposite of this. They will be taking a QB in the top 10. They might get a veteran FA QB or they might decide to roll with Trevor or Brock, until the rookie is ready.

The only way they don't draft a top 10 QB is if they draft a $20m+ QB like Kirk Cousins or Drew Brees. In that case they draft a later round developmental QB.

The one thing they cannot and will not do is to just roll out there with Alex Smith or Sam Bradford, either of whom will get way too much money unless you believe they can be the long term starter going forward. And there's no point in doing that unless you don't like any of the QBs available in the draft or think that only Josh Rosen will do, and they think Cleveland will take him so they can't get him.

The one thing that has zero chance is them just deciding they are going with Paxton as their starter next year based on 2 games.

[Rick]

Again, depends on PL.

PL lights it up for 800 yards as mentioned in your example, then he looks like a franchise guy. They won't be drafting a top 10 guy if that happened.

Realistically PL is going to look like shit or barely average, but that isn't the point. Point was in comparison to your example, if he played like THAT guy he will be THE guy.

[Cugel]

Again, depends on PL.

PL lights it up for 800 yards as mentioned in your example, then he looks like a franchise guy. They won't be drafting a top 10 guy if that happened.

Realistically PL is going to look like shit or barely average, but that isn't the point. Point was in comparison to your example, if he played like THAT guy he will be THE guy.

I think they will still draft a top 10 QB because you can't count on 2 games. The Texans already made that $37m mistake based on 7 games in 2015. Elway won't make that mistake.

At best Paxton will be in the position Alex Smith was in this season with the Chiefs wanting to get Pat Mahomes ready as quickly as possible. He keeps the job until he isn't playing well, the team isn't winning and the rookie is ready.

Frankly, unless the Broncos go out and get a QB they think is elite and pay him elite $ - like Drew Brees or Kirk Cousins, they absolutely will draft a QB in the first round.

Even if Tom Brady came here and played in disguise as Paxton the next two games, they are not just handing him the keys again. There will be more competition. And not just from Brock or Trevor either or both of whom will be gone.

[Rick]

Again, I don't believe that for a NY minute.

They would not be wanting to eval Lynch for the rest of the season if what he did on the filed did not matter.

If he ONLY had a chance to compete as a back up next year because they were taking some kid regardless of how PL played, they would not waste time playing him. Period. What would be the point??

IF he comes out and looks like a franchise guy they will not be taking a top 10 pick on a QB. If he looks like the typical PL, they probably will unless they get Cousins.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Nicki Jhabvala‏Verified account @NickiJhabvala
25m25 minutes ago

CJ Anderson on QB situation: “It’s normal. We’ll know Friday, as far as what we were told.”

[HORSEPOWER 56]

He was pretty good in 2015.

He was Tyrod Taylor in 2015. Threw for 150-200 a game, ran when he needed to, didn’t turn the ball over much.

He played like we hoped ****face would play this year - just don’t hurt the team by turning it over. He wasn’t exactly a stud, though.

[dogfish]

Do you have any action on crying?



#Broncos Lynch clearly still working through some ankle soreness. That's why no decision has been made yet. #Denver7


they better be real careful. . . :coffee:

[BroncoWave]

Meh, whatever it was.

Sorry Mr. Broncowave, I was wrong, will also suffice. :D

[Cugel]

Again, I don't believe that for a NY minute.

They would not be wanting to eval Lynch for the rest of the season if what he did on the filed did not matter.

If he ONLY had a chance to compete as a back up next year because they were taking some kid regardless of how PL played, they would not waste time playing him. Period. What would be the point??

IF he comes out and looks like a franchise guy they will not be taking a top 10 pick on a QB. If he looks like the typical PL, they probably will unless they get Cousins.

I think you are misunderstanding. Of course they want to eval Paxton Lynch. They have to decide whether he's made any progress in the last two years or not.

Now you, like me, just assume that he sucks cause he sucks cause he's a bust and isn't going to get any better. But Elway isn't making that assumption. They would like to "develop" him and he's relatively cheap so they can do just that. Stash him on the roster as the #3 QB for next year and see how he develops.

Unless they have some important reason NOT to do that, they will do exactly that. They were higher about Paxton's athletic ability than that of Trevor, and Osweiler is a UFA at seasons' end. If he wants backup money to come back here and be the backup, they might consider it, but they might not.

That would depend on whether they are successful in finding a FA QB they want to be the starter. If so, if they land Kirk Cousins for $30m a year, as Adam Schefter suggests they will do, then obviously they won't draft a QB in round 1 or 2.

In that case Paxton is probably safe for another year. They could keep Osweiler or Trevor as a backup in case of injury and Paxton remains the "developmental" guy. But, he has to show some sign of progress. Some sign that he will eventually get it.

Hence the 2 game audition. They don't need to audition Osweiler. They know what they think of him and obviously it won't be changed by another 2 games doing what he did in the last 2.

If they were considering re-signing him to be a long-term starter, then he'd be playing and there would be NO consideration of Paxton at all.

[Cugel]

All you fans need to consider the opposite though: Will Elway be satisfied NOT drafting a QB in the top ten if he thinks a Franchise QB is available he COULD draft?

Like hell! IF he has a chance to draft a guy he thinks will be a star in this league for the next 10 seasons, then he will do everything he can to land that guy. And nothing will stop him.

That applies to FA as well of course. What we don't know is how high he's willing to bid to obtain Kirk Cousins.

Adam Schefter thinks that there's "zero % chance" that the Redskins will just let Cousins go. Their best option is to put the conditional franchise tag on so they can match any offers he gets and keep Cousins. They could also franchise him for $34m for the next year. That would put a big dent in their salary cap, but they are considering it.

So, Elway may not find a Franchise QB in FA. It looks like Case Keenum might be the only one available, and he might not come here. He might stay in MN for instance. They might keep him.

[slim]

Hi Cugal.

Merry Christmas!

[Cugel]

Hi Cugal.

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas to all! :beer:

Also: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[underrated29]

Sorry Mr. Broncowave, I was wrong, will also suffice. :D

It could, but it does not matter. I was unsure of his record, although it was much better than I guessed. So, Mr. Broncowave; I was wrong, you do need it eat a bowl of dicks.
:beer:

[UnderArmour]

I continue to be completely embarrassed by an organization that ignores how players look in practice, and instead opts to make personnel decisions based on draft status rather than performance. Elway needs to check himself quickly before this franchise becomes a joke. Vance Joseph needs to tell Elway no if he has any respect for the profession he has chosen for himself, same as Kubiak told Elway week 17 of last year.

[Rick]

I continue to be completely embarrassed by an organization that ignores how players look in practice, and instead opts to make personnel decisions based on draft status rather than performance. Elway needs to check himself quickly before this franchise becomes a joke. Vance Joseph needs to tell Elway no if he has any respect for the profession he has chosen for himself, same as Kubiak told Elway week 17 of last year.

Honestly, this is pretty much standard practice when you are out of the race.

[Davii]

I continue to be completely embarrassed by an organization that ignores how players look in practice, and instead opts to make personnel decisions based on draft status rather than performance. Elway needs to check himself quickly before this franchise becomes a joke. Vance Joseph needs to tell Elway no if he has any respect for the profession he has chosen for himself, same as Kubiak told Elway week 17 of last year.

Lol. Nice theory.

[MOtorboat]

I continue to be completely embarrassed by an organization that ignores how players look in practice, and instead opts to make personnel decisions based on draft status rather than performance. Elway needs to check himself quickly before this franchise becomes a joke. Vance Joseph needs to tell Elway no if he has any respect for the profession he has chosen for himself, same as Kubiak told Elway week 17 of last year.

This is a bit over-dramatic.

[ShaneFalco]

Lynch might actually have had a shot if we didnt throw him in a pro style offense. He needs to play in a offense like Cam. Spread read option.

Too bad. Guess we wont find out.

They will probably end up trying to do same thing with Kelly.

[dogfish]

I continue to be completely embarrassed by an organization that ignores how players look in practice, and instead opts to make personnel decisions based on draft status rather than performance. Elway needs to check himself quickly before this franchise becomes a joke. Vance Joseph needs to tell Elway no if he has any respect for the profession he has chosen for himself, same as Kubiak told Elway week 17 of last year.

nah, man. . . kubiak has the skins on the wall to pull that. . . vance MFin' joseph most certainly does not. . . VJ should thank john for letting him keep his job, not flip the boss a middle finger. . .

[LawDog]

What's the over/under on the number of hurries/hits/sacks before Paxton leaves the game on Sunday?

[dogfish]

What's the over/under on the number of hurries/hits/sacks before Paxton leaves the game on Sunday?

can we get a side pot going on whether he cries again?

[LawDog]

can we get a side pot going on whether he cries again?

If he goes out in the first half, odds are 5/3 that we get tears. 3rd quarter departure drops to 3/1. 4th quarter goes to 2/1. IF he makes it to the finish the odds are even due to the risk of happy tears from an emotional pirate.

[Hawgdriver]

Damn.

:lol:

[Davii]

What's the over/under on the number of hurries/hits/sacks before Paxton leaves the game on Sunday?

I'd say 2 just so there's a chance of an under, otherwise, I'd say just 1. To me, those tears were of a guy that feels he's reached the end of the road and is mentally done with this whole NFL thing.

[Tbolt]

I don’t think Lynch wants any part of being an NFL player. I’d be stunned if he completes the game. My money is on early 3rd quarter departure due to bruised hymen.

Now, I’d say it is even money that he never suits up again.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I'd say 2 just so there's a chance of an under, otherwise, I'd say just 1. To me, those tears were of a guy that feels he's reached the end of the road and is mentally done with this whole NFL thing.
That’s not a sign of mental fortitude if he is done.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/12/29/broncos-quarterback-paxton-lynch/

Good read-

[Northman]

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/12/29/broncos-quarterback-paxton-lynch/

Good read-

Great read. Especially loved this part.


Less than 48 hours after watching Allen’s demeanor on the sidelines and his reactions in between series of Wyoming’s win, Elway and Russell headed to Washington, D.C., to view the same from Kirk Cousins (http://stats.denverpost.com/football/nfl-players.aspx?page=/data/nfl/players/player37768.html), possibly the hottest free-agent of 2018. They watched as Cousins showed the Broncos what they’ve been missing from a starting quarterback since Week 2: A guy who could respond to adversity, who could bounce back from a 1-7 start, who could make the right reads, who could guide his team to a 16-point win despite playing with arguably less talent around him.

[Cugel]

What's the over/under on the number of hurries/hits/sacks before Paxton leaves the game on Sunday?

Don't say that! We need Giraffe #2 to finish the game! That will enhance his trade value (currently zero).

11614

Giraffes are fragile!

[Cugel]

Great read. Especially loved this part.

Elway would love to kick the tires on Kirk Cousins, but the price tag is just astronomical. I cannot imagine they could afford him at $32m a year or something equally insane. Yet there are teams with ginormous salary cap room that could make him such a ludicrous offer.

Elway is not one of those idiots. Yes, Kirk Cousins is a very good QB, but is he worth over $30m a year? Elway would have to dump a bunch of players to be able to afford it.

Some reports are that he doesn't want to spend more than the $20m he spent on Peyton. I'd say that is good sense.

[Davii]

Why is everyone, including announcers, etc convinced Cousins will take 30+million per year to sign? He made 24 mil this year and it's not as though he turned down a fair long term deal last year or demanded 30+ per year that I know of.

Have I missed something?

[Northman]

Why is everyone, including announcers, etc convinced Cousins will take 30+million per year to sign? He made 24 mil this year and it's not as though he turned down a fair long term deal last year or demanded 30+ per year that I know of.

Have I missed something?

Good point. Depending on who all tries to vie for his services he may work with whatever team gives him the best chance to win a championship

[Davii]

Good point. Depending on who all tries to vie for his services he may work with whatever team gives him the best chance to win a championship

All we know about the offer the Skins made him, which cane from the team, is that they offered 53m guaranteed and 72 guaranteed for injury. How many years, total contract, etc as far as I know is unknown.

[LawDog]

I think it comes from the number that Washington would have to pay if they tag him for a third straight season - which I believe is around $34 million. Nobody is gonna give him a contract with an annual number anywhere near that.

[Davii]

I think it comes from the number that Washington would have to pay if they tag him for a third straight season - which I believe is around $34 million. Nobody is gonna give him a contract with an annual number anywhere near that.

There's no chance he gets a contract worth annually what Washington would have to pay for another tag year

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Why is everyone, including announcers, etc convinced Cousins will take 30+million per year to sign? He made 24 mil this year and it's not as though he turned down a fair long term deal last year or demanded 30+ per year that I know of.

Have I missed something?

Supply and demand? He’ll get a contract worth over $100 million I would assume?

On another note, isn’t there a limit to the number of times a player can be tagged? It seems as though he’s been tagged two years in a row now.

[MOtorboat]

There's no chance he gets a contract worth annually what Washington would have to pay for another tag year

I thought there was no way in hell Osweiler would get $18 mil. I’m not ruling anything out.

[dogfish]

if the regular franchise number for QBs is around 24-25, i think it's fair to assume he'll get that or somewhat north of it. . . teams are desperate for QBs, and it's not often that a solid starter hits free agency. . . kirk is a step above the usual tyrod taylor level guys that are the best you can find most years. . . cousins is young for the position, he's not coming off an injury, and he has the strong intangibles and character you want and need from your QB. . . somebody is going to pay that man. . . maybe not 30, but i'd say in the 25-26-27 range. . .

[topscribe]

if the regular franchise number for QBs is around 24-25, i think it's fair to assume he'll get that or somewhat north of it. . . teams are desperate for QBs, and it's not often that a solid starter hits free agency. . . kirk is a step above the usual tyrod taylor level guys that are the best you can find most years. . . cousins is young for the position, he's not coming off an injury, and he has the strong intangibles and character you want and need from your QB. . . somebody is going to pay that man. . . maybe not 30, but i'd say in the 25-26-27 range. . .
Elway is not only competitive. He is uber-competitive. He might go for that . . .

[Rick]

Outside of Manning, I can't think of any other FA QB that was available in recent memory that is of his talent level. He will get paid.

[Cugel]

Why is everyone, including announcers, etc convinced Cousins will take 30+million per year to sign? He made 24 mil this year and it's not as though he turned down a fair long term deal last year or demanded 30+ per year that I know of.

Have I missed something?

You've missed absolutely everything. From a legal standpoint of NFL law & the CBA here's the situation.

Two years ago Redskins didn't want to commit to Cousins, so they franchised him. He signed it. They did it again last year. He signed again. There's no real limit on how many times they can do that but they have to up the previous year's price by 20% every time they do.

By the third time the QB franchise tag is $34.6m for 2018. Just an impossible number in a league where no other NFL QB, including Brees, Brady, Rogers & Roethlisberger is within $10m of that cap number.

They could try and re-sign him to a long term deal, but he's not going to re-sign for anything less than what he can get on the open market. He has all the power and intends to use it to maximize his deal, like any sensible person would. So, that won't save them anything.

They can give him the transition franchise, but that will cost $28m+ according to the NFL. They would pay that amount, but if they transition tag him other teams can negotiate with him and they just have a right to match, just like the Broncos did with CJ Anderson when the Dolphins offered him a $4.5m deal.

So, if he signed the transition tag he'd earn $28.6m for one year and then he'd be an unrestricted FA next year, and the franchise tag for 2019 would be 20% more than $34.6m - so over $40m for a single year.

But there are NFL teams like the Browns, Jets and other loser teams that have MUCH more cap room than the Redskins. If they transition him those teams can make an offer that the Redskins just can't afford to match without massive salary dump elsewhere on their roster and it just isn't worth it.

The salary negotiations would therefore have to START at nearly $29m and will quickly escalate over $30m. Where it ends up is anybody's guess, but a number around $32m a year is not at all out of the question.

Is he worth it? Of course not. Will some desperate team pay him this ginormous sum? Absolutely. If you don't believe it, just watch and see and then come back to this thread and acknowledge I was right.

The only other possibility is that he just swallows all the crap management has drenched him in and the disrespect and somehow decides to sign a long term deal with them for much less than his market value. But, don't bet on it. He knows he can become by far the richest man in NFL history.

If YOU don't value him that highly, too bad. NFL GMs do. Watch and see.

[Cugel]

Outside of Manning, I can't think of any other FA QB that was available in recent memory that is of his talent level. He will get paid.

He's much more of a prospect than Manning ever was! Remember that Manning was coming off 4 neck surgeries and there was zero proof he could ever play again. He agreed to a buy out for the Broncos from his contract after every single season, and their duty to pay him was contingent on his passing their most stringent medical exam.

They insisted on this condition.

So, the Broncos were taking a calculated risk Manning could recover enough to be a great QB again. It worked out but there were a ton of critics who insisted he was done and it was a foolish thing to pay him $20m.

Kirk Cousins is much younger and in good health, a proven pro-bowl caliber QB entering the prime of his career.

Oh, yes, he will get paid. A boat load. Several boat loads of cash actually.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Cugel, how many words per minute do you type?

[MOtorboat]

Cugel, how many words per minute do you type?

Brevity is a virtue.

[dogfish]

Brevity is a virtue.

what about shortness?

[MOtorboat]

what about shortness?

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/game-of-thrones-le-trone-de-fer/images/f/f8/Tyrion_Lannister.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/350?cb=20170905153251&path-prefix=fr

[Hawgdriver]

what about shortness?

That's what he meant, I think.

[Davii]

You've missed absolutely everything. From a legal standpoint of NFL law & the CBA here's the situation.

Two years ago Redskins didn't want to commit to Cousins, so they franchised him. He signed it. They did it again last year. He signed again. There's no real limit on how many times they can do that but they have to up the previous year's price by 20% every time they do.

By the third time the QB franchise tag is $34.6m for 2018. Just an impossible number in a league where no other NFL QB, including Brees, Brady, Rogers & Roethlisberger is within $10m of that cap number.

They could try and re-sign him to a long term deal, but he's not going to re-sign for anything less than what he can get on the open market. He has all the power and intends to use it to maximize his deal, like any sensible person would. So, that won't save them anything.

They can give him the transition franchise, but that will cost $28m+ according to the NFL. They would pay that amount, but if they transition tag him other teams can negotiate with him and they just have a right to match, just like the Broncos did with CJ Anderson when the Dolphins offered him a $4.5m deal.

So, if he signed the transition tag he'd earn $28.6m for one year and then he'd be an unrestricted FA next year, and the franchise tag for 2019 would be 20% more than $34.6m - so over $40m for a single year.

But there are NFL teams like the Browns, Jets and other loser teams that have MUCH more cap room than the Redskins. If they transition him those teams can make an offer that the Redskins just can't afford to match without massive salary dump elsewhere on their roster and it just isn't worth it.

The salary negotiations would therefore have to START at nearly $29m and will quickly escalate over $30m. Where it ends up is anybody's guess, but a number around $32m a year is not at all out of the question.

Is he worth it? Of course not. Will some desperate team pay him this ginormous sum? Absolutely. If you don't believe it, just watch and see and then come back to this thread and acknowledge I was right.

The only other possibility is that he just swallows all the crap management has drenched him in and the disrespect and somehow decides to sign a long term deal with them for much less than his market value. But, don't bet on it. He knows he can become by far the richest man in NFL history.

If YOU don't value him that highly, too bad. NFL GMs do. Watch and see.

And not a lick of this means he'll get 30+ million a year in a long term deal. I've missed nothing.

He will get what the market bears. 32 million? Please. Nobody will pay him that much more than the current highest paid qb.