Kiszla: The Broncos have done wrong by Paxton Lynch, Trevor Siemian and Brock Osweiler. Here’s how.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I am not a Kiszla fan, but he does have some good points in the article. My question is whether it is really John, or does he give the HC and staff free reign?


In an NFL season gone wrong, know which Broncos have been done wrong?

Paxton Lynch, Trevor Siemian and Brock Osweiler.

Where did the Broncos draw up this plan to develop their young quarterbacks? On the back of a cocktail napkin?

John Elway is a Hall of Fame quarterback. He should know better.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/2017/12/16/broncos-done-wrong-quarterbacks-mark-kiszla/

[Northman]

I get some of what Kizla says but its not all exactly as he puts it. THe QB's for Denver were not necessarily done wrong, especially Oz. Oz had a handful of years to learn from one of the best, when it was time to take the reigns he bolted to another team and learned a valuable lesson about humility. Siemian had somewhat the same exposure to Manning but not as many live reps. Lynch, has had opportunities to show the coaching staff and team why it was they drafted him in the first place but has failed to WOW anyone and failed to step up to the plate.

Where Kizla gets it right though is that John screwed up. Instead of accepting that the Broncos were in a rebuilding process after losing Manning he instead tried to reload with two young QB's with very little live game experience. John preached about competing for another championship without having the captain in the captain's chair. If there is one fact that is true is that if you are going to have a 3 year project QB, then you need to have a solid vet or HOF Qb in front of him to learn from. Not a 2nd year 7th rounder who is still inexperienced himself. And if you dont have that vet than you need to roll the dice and as Kizla says allow the team to sink or swim with that young QB at the helm. By all technical accounts Lynch should of started this year to see where he ended up instead of the balancing act that Kizla points too.

In the end it is kind of stupid to put Lynch in now instead of just letting Oz finish the season out.

[Rick]

All 3 of the QBs have had a shot and none have stepped up.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Kizla....

[Broncoknight30]

All 3 of the QBs have had a shot and none have stepped up.

There are a few major areas where Elway screwed up. It was drafting OZ over Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins in 2012. It was drafting Montee Ball over Le'Veon Bells, and drafting Lynch over Prescott. Now, that Prescott thing could still be up in there with Prescott, but he is certainly showing better signs than Lynch.

There are others, but those are the three that stick out.

[chazoe60]

There are a few major areas where Elway screwed up. It was drafting OZ over Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins in 2012. It was drafting Montee Ball over Le'Veon Bells, and drafting Lynch over Prescott. Now, that Prescott thing could still be up in there with Prescott, but he is certainly showing better signs than Lynch.

There are others, but those are the three that stick out.

While we're at it, why didn't the Broncos draft Tom Brady? He lasted til the 6th round, ******* dummies.

[Northman]

Somebody say Tom Brady?????!!!!

[BroncoJoe]

Not buying it. The Broncos' plan was Oz. He bailed and left us in a bit of a mess at QB.

[gregbroncs]

There are a few major areas where Elway screwed up. It was drafting OZ over Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins in 2012. It was drafting Montee Ball over Le'Veon Bells, and drafting Lynch over Prescott. Now, that Prescott thing could still be up in there with Prescott, but he is certainly showing better signs than Lynch.

There are others, but those are the three that stick out.

Every team does this. It's a fact of life. You can't hit 100% on drafts. And going back and blaming a guy for missing players that almost everybody passed on is idiotic.

[topscribe]

All 3 of the QBs have had a shot and none have stepped up.
I guess a 147.7 passer rating and a 99.2 QBR (highes of ALL QBs in the league this year) is not stepping up? :confused:

[dogfish]

the denver post has done their readers wrong by keeping this nauseating asshat around all these years. . . kiszla is a truly horrible person-- like, worse than dave bad. . .

[topscribe]

I am not a Kiszla fan, but he does have some good points in the article. My question is whether it is really John, or does he give the HC and staff free reign?



rest - http://www.denverpost.com/2017/12/16/broncos-done-wrong-quarterbacks-mark-kiszla/
One of the few really good articles I've read from Kiszla. The only QB the Broncos have had
success with since Elway is Manning, and he was his own success. As I mentioned to you in
my last email, Denver is where young QBs go to die . . .



the denver post has done their readers wrong by keeping this nauseating asshat around all these years. . . kiszla is a truly horrible person-- like, worse than dave bad. . .
Horrible person? Do you know him personally? I'll admit, I'm no fan of him as a reporter or
columnist. But this was indeed a good article, IMO.

[Cugel]

Where Kizla gets it right though is that John screwed up. Instead of accepting that the Broncos were in a rebuilding process after losing Manning he instead tried to reload with two young QB's with very little live game experience. John preached about competing for another championship without having the captain in the captain's chair. If there is one fact that is true is that if you are going to have a 3 year project QB, then you need to have a solid vet or HOF Qb in front of him to learn from. Not a 2nd year 7th rounder who is still inexperienced himself. And if you dont have that vet than you need to roll the dice and as Kizla says allow the team to sink or swim with that young QB at the helm. By all technical accounts Lynch should of started this year to see where he ended up instead of the balancing act that Kizla points too.

In the end it is kind of stupid to put Lynch in now instead of just letting Oz finish the season out.

I'd say this is pretty accurate. Elway had a SB 50 winning team on his hands in 2016, but lost two Hall of Famers in Peyton and Demarcus Ware (whose back made him a non factor in 2016 and who retired thereafter), LB Trevathan (only ILB who could cover TEs), and any semblance of a penetrating DT in Malik Jackson). Then in 2017 they released TJ Ward.

This is a rebuilding team, with zero impact players at TE, LT, RT, RG, ILB, DT or #3 WR. THey had an explosive runner in Jamaal Charles who is clearly the best RB on the roster, but for whatever idiotic reason they decided to only give him 5 touches a game instead of 25 (passes + runs) and he's gone in FA next year.

If they sign a veteran FA QB like Kirk Cousins it will cost $25m a year plus. Even Alex Smith got $20.6m this year from the Chiefs. Assuming he takes a pay cut he still will make around $15m to start for somebody next season. Could be Denver in fact if they decide to get rid of Osweiler and Trevor, sign a FA veteran and draft a rookie QB.

"A man's got to know his limitations." -- Clint Eastwood

Elway acted the last 2 seasons like the Broncos were 1 or 2 players away from competing for a SB, just the way they thought and behaved in 1999 or 2000 when, after Elway retired, they thought the same thing.

They thought they could win SBs with Brian Griese somehow. They would play solid defense, run the ball and Griese would play like Alex Smith on a good day. It never worked.

This didn't work either. You need an elite QB to compete with Brady and Roethlisberger. Period. There are no pertinent exceptions to this rule.

[Cugel]

Why The Broncos Should Re-Sign Brock Osweiler, rather than signing a FA QB: The Broncos do not have an elite QB. They need to draft and develop one. It makes more sense to do this entering the next season than to wait, since the team is 5-11 or 6-10. They aren't wining any SBs next year. So, they might as well put in their rookie and let him learn so they are competitive in 2019.

This points to the cheapest and best solution going forward: re-sign Brock Osweiler, draft a QB in the top 10 and then roll with Osweiler until the rookie is ready to start. That will cost maybe $8 or $9m for next year, but Osweiler would not get more than 1 year guaranteed.

That would save them some money, but it would risk that neither Osweiler nor the rookie would be effective next year. But, unless they are willing to make a trade for Teddy Bridgewater or Case Keenum, or else sign Kirk Cousins, then they are taking a QB with their #1 pick.

And if they are doing that, it will take some time, generally about 2 years until the rookie is ready to lead them in the playoffs. In the meantime, they would have Osweiler, the rookie, and Lynch as the scout team, long term developmental guy.

For those Kelly fans, perhaps Chad Kelly flashes enough in the preseason that they sign him to the 53 man roster as the #3 QB and release Paxton Lynch.

[aberdien]

Maybe Lynch and Siemian and Oz should suck less.

[Rick]

I guess a 147.7 passer rating and a 99.2 QBR (highes of ALL QBs in the league this year) is not stepping up? :confused:

I won't deny that Brock had an amazing game, but need to see that happen more than once. Before that he was rather pedestrian.

[topscribe]

I won't deny that Brock had an amazing game, but need to see that happen more than once. Before that he was rather pedestrian.
As I have posted more than once. But that was an eye-opener and worthy of further special attention.
Osweiler is the ONE QB who has stepped up in such a way, so should be starting henceforth this
season, IMO. But then, I'm not the one making the decisions (which may be fortunate for the franchise).

[Rick]

As I have posted more than once. But that was an eye-opener and worthy of further special attention.
Osweiler is the ONE QB who has stepped up in such a way, so should be starting henceforth this
season, IMO. But then, I'm not the one making the decisions (which may be fortunate for the franchise).

I can agree. While I think on one hand they should eval PL more, Oz flat out earned another shot. I don't have any belief in him...but he earned another game.

[Davii]

As I have posted more than once. But that was an eye-opener and worthy of further special attention.
Osweiler is the ONE QB who has stepped up in such a way, so should be starting henceforth this
season, IMO. But then, I'm not the one making the decisions (which may be fortunate for the franchise).

I agree that Oz shoukd get the start this week, but the next is not decided until we see this week IMO.

[Hawgdriver]

the denver post has done their readers wrong by keeping this nauseating asshat around all these years. . . kiszla is a truly horrible person-- like, worse than dave bad. . .

Kiszla is the only media personality I have ever in my life sent a letter to. It was not an attaboy.

[Shazam!]

Peyton Manning's name should be in there too. Elway allowed his OLine to decline to protect a 38 year old statue who took a beating too.

As far as that goes, I think a lot of that is stubbornness of the offensive staff with their atrocious playcalling and lack of identification. McGovern appears that he should have been starting.

The Broncos did ?!$@ it up by not supporting young QBs schematically and not having a veteran QB presence to help them aling the way.

[dogfish]

Kiszla is the only media personality I have ever in my life sent a letter to. It was not an attaboy.

:lol:

[Cugel]

I'm at the point where I think they should re-sign Osweiler and make him the game 1 starter for next season. Not because he will ever be a franchise QB in this league, but because they should draft a QB with a top 10 pick, then put in a veteran until the rookie is ready to start.

And other teams are not going to offer Osweiler more than about $8m to come in and "compete" for a starting job. Of course, Osweiler might just walk off again, as he did before, but he would have a better chance in Denver than some other places.

That really is the most viable solution, unless you want to dump massive salary in order to sign Kirk Cousins to a $25m a year, five year contract.

To free up that amount of $, they would have to cut Aqib Talib ($12m), CJ Anderson ($4.5m), and Sanders ($11m). Get rid of those guys and they would have enough cash.

Oh, and they would be hard pressed to re-sign some other veterans who are UFAs like Cody Latimer, Corey Nelson and Todd Davis. Maybe they don't want those players back, I don't know.

So, either way you go, this team will struggle next season until some of their younger players like Jake Butt, Connor McGovern, Cody Latimer (if they keep him), Justin Simmons, Shane Ray, etc. develop into effective playmakers.

Either they go out in FA and sign a veteran they think can be elite (Teddy Bridgewater or Case Keenum?) or else they try and get a care-taker who will fill in at the starting QB position until the rookie is ready. And hopefully that rookie will be like DeShaun Watson, and not like Paxton Lynch.

[Cugel]

Peyton Manning's name should be in there too. Elway allowed his OLine to decline to protect a 38 year old statue who took a beating too.

As far as that goes, I think a lot of that is stubbornness of the offensive staff with their atrocious playcalling and lack of identification. McGovern appears that he should have been starting.

The Broncos did ?!$@ it up by not supporting young QBs schematically and not having a veteran QB presence to help them aling the way.

Elway decided to go all in on Defense starting in 2014 and allowed his offensive players to leave and not be replaced - Wes Welker, Julius Thomas, Knowshon Moreno, while acquiring veteran FAs like TJ Ward, Aqib Talib and Darien Stewart.

He might alternatively have chosen to go out and spend the $ to acquire top flight FAs to strengthen the OL with the idea of keeping Peyton healthy well into his 40's. We'll never know how that would have worked out, because they never tried. Instead they got cast-offs like Russell Okung, Donald Stephenson and Menelik Watson, and deferred drafting a LT until 2017.

The defense won the SB in 2015, but Manning retired, which has led to all the angst and not making the playoffs the last 2 seasons.

[OrangeHoof]

There are a few major areas where Elway screwed up. It was drafting OZ over Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins in 2012.


Fair critique, especially on Cousins. I think Wilson was drafted where he should have been drafted but was fortunate to find a team that fit his skill set.


It was drafting Montee Ball over Le'Veon Bells,

No, Ball was drafted over Eddie Lacey, not Bell.


and drafting Lynch over Prescott. Now, that Prescott thing could still be up in there with Prescott, but he is certainly showing better signs than Lynch.
There are others, but those are the three that stick out.

See my comments about Wilson. Put Prescott in over half the NFL offenses and he'd be worse. Dallas was a great fit for him and props to the Cowboys for rebuilding the offense to feature what he does best. Lynch has not been a good fit, especially with Kubiak's leaving.

[Ground Control]

Peyton Manning's name should be in there too. Elway allowed his OLine to decline to protect a 38 year old statue who took a beating too.

As far as that goes, I think a lot of that is stubbornness of the offensive staff with their atrocious playcalling and lack of identification. McGovern appears that he should have been starting.

The Broncos did ?!$@ it up by not supporting young QBs schematically and not having a veteran QB presence to help them aling the way.

Broncos, being John Elway. Thanks for making my point for me on my thread. To remove my whining hyperbole, I am happy with Elway at the helm but F him for not letting his ego go and assuming that he can do everything, all the time. He is a human being and a damn fine one. He deserves some FU's for his nonsense. I'm sure he would agree. Now, let's leave hyperbole and ego aside and see what can be done without them.