NFL Network Reports: Broncos Expected Now To Retain Vance Jospeph For Another Year!

[Cugel]

This is the NFL network, and not some random commenter. The story is based on "over the last several days I've spoken with several team sources informed of the Broncos thinking and the expectation is no major changes in the off-season. In other words Vance Joseph is going to be back with the Denver Broncos. But, there is a caveat. The senior Broncos Brass including John Elway will be watching to see how competitive the team is over the rest of the season, and if the team were not competitive, as they were not for a long stretch during the middle of the season, then the decision could go the other way.


Denver Broncos expected to retain Vance Joseph (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000892869/article/denver-broncos-expected-to-retain-vance-joseph)

By Kevin Patra
Around the NFL writer
Published: Dec. 14, 2017 at 03:57 p.m.
Updated: Dec. 14, 2017 at 05:52 p.m.

Thursday Night Football features two head coaches standing on shaky soil. Will the results of the final TNF game of the season between the Denver Broncos and Indianapolis Colts cause the ground to crumble beneath Vance Joseph or Chuck Pagano?

NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported that the expectation is Joseph returns to Denver for 2018, according to several sources informed of the Broncos' thinking.

[ShaneFalco]

https://media.giphy.com/media/1M9fmo1WAFVK0/giphy.gif

[Cugel]

The interesting part is this explanation of Elway's thinking.
""They know -- Elway and Ellis -- the quarterback situation here. They are very well aware of how little chance that the offense has."

I don't think that means Elway believes that Paxton just "isn't ready" but rather that none of Denver's current QBs is better than a backup in this league.

That's obvious of course, but it has never been stated by Elway, who has always given the company line that Paxton is just a work in progress and they are continuing to develop him, presumably for next season.

But, if they conclude he's a bust, then that means next year they will be drafting a QB early, whether they keep Trevor or not as a backup. It could mean next year's QB roster would look like this:

#1 - Veteran FA starter until the rookie is ready.
#2 - Rookie draft pick.
#3 - Trevor or Chad Kelly, but not both.

Of course, I can express no proof this will happen now.

[slim]

Booooooo

[dogfish]

lead those men!

[MOtorboat]

Such as it is.

[Magnificent Seven]

Ah!

[chazoe60]

Reason #2 why these last two meaningless wins were not good for the long term health of this franchise.

[Timmy!]

Meh. If we win out I can live with VJ getting a shot to fix shit. Olivo or whatever his name is has got to go though

[tripp]

Bittersweet about winning these past 2 games. Next to the Dallas game, this was a fun game to watch. Everyone looked like they were having fun again. I won't give Oz all the credit because I think Bill Musgrave helped a lot with the play calling, and I hope he sticks around.

Brock Olivo needs to go, VJ should still be on the hot seat, and infact if he does stay next year he should be on a short leash anyway. If the opportunity presents itself and a coach gets fired, we should be looking at upgrading.

[slim]

Reason #2 why these last two meaningless wins were not good for the long term health of this franchise.

Maybe someone can work up a comparison of VJ's first year vs Belichick's first year.

[chazoe60]

Maybe someone can work up a comparison of VJ's first year vs Belichick's first year.

There will never be a comparison between the two. Sorry, VJ isn't living on the same planet as BB when it comes to coaching acumen.

[The Glue Factory]

Maybe someone can work up a comparison of VJ's first year vs Belichick's first year.

Wasn't Belicheat's first HC with the Browns? And you want to compare him to VJ? Do you understand the implications?!!?? :scared: :scared: :scared:

[slim]

There will never be a comparison between the two. Sorry, VJ isn't living on the same planet as BB when it comes to coaching acumen.

So you are saying that comparing a first year guy to a HOFer is asinine?

Hmmm....you may have a point.

[BroncoJoe]

I'm fine with keeping him for another year. We have no QB. OL is struggling (to put it mildly) and turnovers have killed us. Getting rid of our OC (can't remember his name...) and promoting Musgrave will pay dividends IMO.

Can't have a coaching carousel, and I don't think VJ is as bad as many think. Next year will be telling.

[broncofaninfla]

I felt like kicking puppies when I first read this but remembered that the NFL Network has about the same level of credibility as the mainstream media. I seriously doubt Elway has made a final decision yet but the bar is set high in Denver and even with a couple of wins to finish the season out, I can't see that being enough to save VJ's job. Lets hope this isn't rue.

[Warhawk]

I felt like kicking puppies when I first read this but remembered that the NFL Network has about the same level of credibility as the mainstream media. I seriously doubt Elway has made a final decision yet but the bar is set high in Denver and even with a couple of wins to finish the season out, I can't see that being enough to save VJ's job. Lets hope this isn't rue.

</lurk>

If you keep tabs on the "team friendly" media voices, there have been many subtle attempts to sell the idea of Vance staying on as HC. This was happening prior to the Jets game, so it doesn't represent a change in perspective on Vance due to recent wins. They were propping him up at the dankest, darkest point of the season.

Here's my read: The team wanted to keep him regardless of the record, but the public outcry at the terrible on-field performance was making that an extremely difficult position for them to hold (even with their buddies in the media chipping in some support). Now that a portion of the fanbase has been placated by a few wins, the idea of him staying on is less toxic.

I'm certainly not a fan of Vance and won't forget the ridiculous losing streak that killed this season... but based on what I've seen/heard, I'd be very surprised if he was let go at the end of the season.

<lurk>

[Buff]

</lurk>

If you keep tabs on the "team friendly" media voices, there have been many subtle attempts to sell the idea of Vance staying on as HC. This was happening prior to the Jets game, so it doesn't represent a change in perspective on Vance due to recent wins. They were propping him up at the dankest, darkest point of the season.

Here's my read: The team wanted to keep him regardless of the record, but the public outcry at the terrible on-field performance was making that an extremely difficult position for them to hold (even with their buddies in the media chipping in some support). Now that a portion of the fanbase has been placated by a few wins, the idea of him staying on is less toxic.

I'm certainly not a fan of Vance and won't forget the ridiculous losing streak that killed this season... but based on what I've seen/heard, I'd be very surprised if he was let go at the end of the season.

<lurk>

Here's a riddle... Which one of our sycophant beat writers are not team friendly? Klis and Renck may as well be on Elway's payroll. The only critical voice at the Post is Mark effing Kiszla. It didn't occur to me while the team was winning - but I've been really frustrated by the local coverage this year.

[BroncoJoe]

Here's a riddle... Which one of our sycophant beat writers are not team friendly? Klis and Renck may as well be on Elway's payroll. The only critical voice at the Post is Mark effing Kiszla. It didn't occur to me while the team was winning - but I've been really frustrated by the local coverage this year.

Yeah, but you're always frustrated at something.

[Buff]

Yeah, but you're always frustrated at something.

The internet is for complaining.

[BroncoJoe]

The internet is for complaining.

Net-Negativity?

[Buff]

Net-Negativity?

At least until Congress bans it.

[BroncoWave]

I'm so apathetic at this point I don't even care if we keep him or not. Either we suck again and stockpile more good draft picks and clean house, or he shocks us all and is good. I can live with either option.

[Cugel]

I felt like kicking puppies when I first read this but remembered that the NFL Network has about the same level of credibility as the mainstream media. I seriously doubt Elway has made a final decision yet but the bar is set high in Denver and even with a couple of wins to finish the season out, I can't see that being enough to save VJ's job. Lets hope this isn't rue.

I say about 100-1 chance Elway retains VJ for next year at this point. I laugh at your point that NFL network has "the same credibility as the mainstream media."

So 100% credibility then.

I don't hope it isn't true either. Now that they ditched Mike McCoy the offense looks like it can actually score some points.

[Cugel]

Here's my read: The team wanted to keep him regardless of the record, but the public outcry at the terrible on-field performance was making that an extremely difficult position for them to hold (even with their buddies in the media chipping in some support). Now that a portion of the fanbase has been placated by a few wins, the idea of him staying on is less toxic.

I'm certainly not a fan of Vance and won't forget the ridiculous losing streak that killed this season... but based on what I've seen/heard, I'd be very surprised if he was let go at the end of the season.

Warhawk is right. The last thing Elway wanted was to fire VJ after one season. That is how losing franchises operate - constant turmoil and coaching changes. And Denver has gone through 3 head coaches and a bunch of assistants since 2014 already. Moving on to their 4th head coach in 4 years would not be good.

He might be forced to do something if the team had lost 12 in a row, while being blown out in every game. Enough is just enough. But, he's not going to give in to fan over-reaction. Now that the team has won 2 in a row, VJ is safe, regardless of what happens the last 2 games.

They should probably start Paxton in the last 2 to see what they have. The games are meaningless, they just need to play the guys they intend to keep next year.

VJ will get his 2nd season. And Elway will expect to see some signs of improvement in 2018. How much improvement? That is up in the air.

So, right now the job is give more playing time to develop

Paxton
Booker
Jeff Heuerman
Connor McGovern
Andy Janovich
Benie Fowler
Jordan Taylor
Cody Latimer
Billy Turner
Garrett Bolles

and on defense
Shelby Harris
Demarcus Walker
Brenden Langley
Will Parks

The young guys who they will be considering starting or at least keeping on the roster for next year. And not those likely to be cut or traded:

Jamaal Charles
CJ
Talib
D.T.

[BroncoWave]

I say about 100-1 chance Elway retains VJ for next year at this point. I laugh at your point that NFL network has "the same credibility as the mainstream media."

So 100% credibility then.

I don't hope it isn't true either. Now that they ditched Mike McCoy the offense looks like it can actually score some points.


Warhawk is right. The last thing Elway wanted was to fire VJ after one season. That is how losing franchises operate - constant turmoil and coaching changes. And Denver has gone through 3 head coaches and a bunch of assistants since 2014 already. Moving on to their 4th head coach in 4 years would not be good.

He might be forced to do something if the team had lost 12 in a row, while being blown out in every game. Enough is just enough. But, he's not going to give in to fan over-reaction.

VJ will get his 2nd season. And Elway will expect to see some signs of improvement in 2018. How much improvement? That is up in the air.

Huh?

[Cugel]

Huh?

100-1 chance in favor of retain, not 100-1 chance they fire him. I suppose there's some conceivable, but unlikely scenario in which Elway fires him. I don't know what that would be, so I assigned it a 1% chance. You can give your own odds if you like. 100-1 retain is mine.

Those expecting VJ to be fired can state their opinion and we'll see who's right in a few weeks time after the season. But, those wanting a change: don't hold your breath.

[oubronco]

More agony YEA!!!!

[BroncoWave]

100-1 chance in favor of retain, not 100-1 chance they fire him. I suppose there's some conceivable, but unlikely scenario in which Elway fires him. I don't know what that would be, so I assigned it a 1% chance. You can give your own odds if you like. 100-1 retain is mine.

Those expecting VJ to be fired can state their opinion and we'll see who's right in a few weeks time after the season. But, those wanting a change: don't hold your breath.

I don't think you know how odds work. 100-1 means a huge long shot. When you say "100-1" to return, you are saying there is a 1% chance he returns.

[Tned]

The interesting part is this explanation of Elway's thinking.
""They know -- Elway and Ellis -- the quarterback situation here. They are very well aware of how little chance that the offense has."

I don't think that means Elway believes that Paxton just "isn't ready" but rather that none of Denver's current QBs is better than a backup in this league.

That's obvious of course, but it has never been stated by Elway, who has always given the company line that Paxton is just a work in progress and they are continuing to develop him, presumably for next season.

But, if they conclude he's a bust, then that means next year they will be drafting a QB early, whether they keep Trevor or not as a backup. It could mean next year's QB roster would look like this:

#1 - Veteran FA starter until the rookie is ready.
#2 - Rookie draft pick.
#3 - Trevor or Chad Kelly, but not both.

Of course, I can express no proof this will happen now.

Cugel. Please read the following post (see link) and then edit your original post in this thread.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/607291-Guidelines-concerning-posting-of-copyrighted-articles

Thanks

T

[Cugel]

I don't think you know how odds work. 100-1 means a huge long shot. When you say "100-1" to return, you are saying there is a 1% chance he returns.

There can be 100 chances of success for 1 chance of failure too. Another way of saying the same thing is "1% chance of getting fired." 100-1 doesn't automatically mean 100-1 against.

[BroncoWave]

There can be 100 chances of success for 1 chance of failure too. Another way of saying the same thing is "1% chance of getting fired." 100-1 doesn't automatically mean 100-1 against.

Again, you don't understand how odds work. 100-1 doesn't and can't mean 100 successes for each 1 failure. It means the odds of something happening are 100-1, which is quite a longshot.

Any time the big number comes before the small number in gambing, it means that outcome has about a 50% chance or less of happening. If you're saying it's a virtual lock that he comes back, then the odds would be 1-100, not 100-1/

[Cugel]

Again, you don't understand how odds work. 100-1 doesn't and can't mean 100 successes for each 1 failure. It means the odds of something happening are 100-1, which is quite a longshot.

Any time the big number comes before the small number in gambing, it means that outcome has about a 50% chance or less of happening. If you're saying it's a virtual lock that he comes back, then the odds would be 1-100, not 100-1/

OK. I'm not in gambling, so I'm not thinking in terms of Vegas odds, and logically what I said was right. But, if it's confusing because people are thinking of gambling, then point taken.

But, in either case he's back. After 2 wins in the last 2 games Elway is re-hiring VJ for next season. The proof of this is that they are considering starting Paxton Lynch this week. VJ obviously does not want Paxton as his starter nor do the players want that. They are desperately trying to win games because losing gets players fired.

Elway however doesn't care. He wants to see Paxton a bit more because he's evaluating whether to keep him on the roster next season, and live regular season experience is key for him to know whether Paxton is developing at all or whether he's stalled out in hopeless mode.

VJ might be able to avoid doing this so they haven't announced a starter for next week. Since Brock balled out he'd be the obvious starter if you were concerned about winning. And if VJ were on the hot seat, then Elway would have to let him try and win the games with the best players he has. Not fair to force Paxton on him, and then fire him for not winning. No way they would do that.

So, conclusion: VJ is safe.

[Davii]

OK. I'm not in gambling, so I'm not thinking in terms of Vegas odds, and logically what I said was right. But, if it's confusing because people are thinking of gambling, then point taken.

But, in either case he's back. After 2 wins in the last 2 games Elway is re-hiring VJ for next season. The proof of this is that they are considering starting Paxton Lynch this week. VJ obviously does not want Paxton as his starter nor do the players want that. They are desperately trying to win games because losing gets players fired.

Elway however doesn't care. He wants to see Paxton a bit more because he's evaluating whether to keep him on the roster next season, and live regular season experience is key for him to know whether Paxton is developing at all or whether he's stalled out in hopeless mode.

VJ might be able to avoid doing this so they haven't announced a starter for next week. Since Brock balled out he'd be the obvious starter if you were concerned about winning. And if VJ were on the hot seat, then Elway would have to let him try and win the games with the best players he has. Not fair to force Paxton on him, and then fire him for not winning. No way they would do that.

So, conclusion: VJ is safe.

What if Elway had seen enough of VJ that his evaluation period was over? What if the evaluation of VJ extended to developing players? What if he made up his mind to fire him two weeks ago no matter the outcome of the last four games?

Not everything is so cut and dry Cugel. FWIW I believe VJ will be back next year, but to present it as fact is shortsighted at best.

[NightTerror218]

I want to see how they close out the season. 8 game losing streak will test any teams resilience. If vj is retained and with this roster can bounce back to close season at 7-9 will be a good sign. It is something to learn from. Has any player on this team ever gone through this type of losing streak? I want to see what some young players can do and see how they play. The biggest sign of giving young players time is Charles not getting touches and extensive Booker. I understand playing the young players to evaluate but on offense even vets are playing for roster spots. Offense is working on chemistry and consistency. Lots of talk that DT, Sanders and others could be gone next season.

Positives I think cj locked his roster spot for next year. McGovern is a nice surprise. Ground game has been better.

Negatives the OL and continuity. Rotating the QB, RT and LG has killed chemistry of offense. Garcia and any RT suck. QB and starters on OL were not picked till end,of preseason. Bad coaching call IMO. TE sucks.

Last but not least ST blow. Need new coordinator.

[Cugel]

What if Elway had seen enough of VJ that his evaluation period was over? What if the evaluation of VJ extended to developing players? What if he made up his mind to fire him two weeks ago no matter the outcome of the last four games?

Not everything is so cut and dry Cugel. FWIW I believe VJ will be back next year, but to present it as fact is shortsighted at best.

It was reported on NFL.com. All sportswriters who talk to insiders in Dove Valley report the same thing. It IS cut and dried. YOU might not want to believe it, but it is.

Your scenario where Elway "made up his mind" already to fire VJ is just absurd. He didn't want to fire VJ, and after VJ won 2 straight games? ZERO chance.

It's a done deal whether you want to accept this or not. All the inside sports writers and radio guys say the same thing, and there are a lot of them. They aren't all wrong.

The question was whether the team would be competitive down the stretch, or whether they had given up on their coach. Well, they answered that question, balling out and kicking the garbage out of the Jets.

[Cugel]

Positives I think cj locked his roster spot for next year. McGovern is a nice surprise. Ground game has been better.

If the team wants to sign a veteran FA QB, it's going to cost. A lot. Kirk Cousins is supposed to get more than $25m a year, with a 4 year contract, perhaps north of $70m guaranteed. This is what Adam Schefter is saying btw, not me.

Well, if the Broncos are going to bid in that sweepstakes, then they need to free up cap room. And the players they can get rid of are:

CJ Anderson: Hes making $4.5m next year and isn't worth it. They were forced to give him this contract when they underestimated how much of an offer he would get from Miami. Well, they overpaid. All the sportswriters are saying he's probably gone. Too much money and they need the cap room. RBs can be had cheaper than $4.5m. Possibly he would take less, but some other team will offer him $ so why would he? Gone.

DT - they can't cut him, but they could trade him to gain cap relief. He's due $15m so they would have to eat some of his salary. They tried to trade him during the season, but no dice.

Aqib: He's earning $12m and they can cut him for a cap hit of $1m. They have been planning to move Bradley Roby into his spot and save money for some time now, and now Roby is ready to make that move. Close to a certainty they release Talib in the off-season to get some cap room.

Sanders: He's earning $11m. Ideally they would move DT not Sanders, but they might not be able to and he's the next big $ player on this 5-11 roster.

[Cugel]

BTW: I sure hope that Brock Olivo the STs cretin gets canned, but with VJ coming back? I haven't heard anything about whether he comes back, but VJ might just be loyal to his coaching staff and refuse to fire him. Elway can't really force the issue without firing Joseph which he never wanted to do to begin with.

Personally, I think Olivo should already be gone. Why he still has a job is a bottomless mystery. If I sucked as bad at my job as he does at his, I'd be totally out of a job long ago.

[chazoe60]

Hoping Olivo gets fired, talk about going out on a limb.

[Cugel]

Hoping Olivo gets fired, talk about going out on a limb.

True, but I don't want it to be forgotten! Don't let that loser stick around another year.

[tripp]

Wonder how much of it is to do with Elway not wanting to fire another HC during his tenure of VP of operations.

[Davii]

Wonder how much of it is to do with Elway not wanting to fire another HC during his tenure of VP of operations.

About 0%.

[Cugel]

Wonder how much of it is to do with Elway not wanting to fire another HC during his tenure of VP of operations.

Obviously that part of it. It would reflect very badly on his judgment if he hired a dude and then had to fire him after 1 season. It would look like he couldn't judge coaching talent.

It would be a "long term coaching carousel." 4 coaches in 4 years? That's just horrible lack of continuity. It will be hard to convince FAs to consider coming here with that degree of instability where the team is always firing their head coach and starting a new coaching scheme. Players hate that. They fit in with one coach, but suddenly they are unwanted because the new coach has a different scheme and wants all his own players.

Nobody needs that.

[Cugel]

The Case In Favor of Vance Joseph: As far as Elway is concerned he believed in Vance Joseph enough to hire him and wants him to succeed because they feel he could be a long term head coach for the organization, if they can get him untracked.

And it appears they did exactly that when Osweiler started playing good turnover free football, and the team won 2 in a row. That is exactly what Elway wanted to see to demonstrate that his confidence in Vance is not misplaced.

This points towards Elway's view that Mike McCoy was never a good fit in Denver. Supposedly, Vance wanted McCoy and Elway said yes. But, he wasn't Elway's man.

If that is true, and there's no proof, Elway could simply conclude that the offensive failures weren't really Vance's fault. He's an inexperienced head coach who trusted his offensive coordinator too much, and McCoy just flat refused to adjust the offense to the limited skill sets of his offensive line, that couldn't pass block 5 and 7 step drops and two inexperienced QBs who couldn't handle the pressure of being put in such a complicated offense.

In short, Elway could conclude the team is just lacking a QB, and that with Bill Musgrave they have a coordinator they can move forward with. If the team continues to respond to the new dumbed down offensive scheme, then that looks like a way forward.

Elway could logically think that if they had even mediocre QB play all season long, combined with an offense better suited to the talent on the roster, they could have won a lot more games, and maybe even competed to win the division and get into the playoffs. And with this defense in the playoffs, nobody will want to play the Broncos, if they have even an average offense.

I don't totally buy this theory BTW because I think the defense is undergoing a natural slow decline as players leave and this will be accelerated this off-season with further changes coming to the roster.

But, Elway might think like that, which would give him further confidence in Vance Joseph.

[BeefStew25]

Cugel, think we should keep Brock? Answer in 10000 words or less.

[NightTerror218]

Broncos are going to roll in $2018 with $31mill in cap space.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/cap/2018/

Some player cap # and saving if cut

Watson due $7.5 mill, cap hit $5m saving
Cj due $4.5m cap hit, $4.5m saving
Kerr $1.75m cap hit, $1.5m savin
Stewart $5.9m,cap hit, $1.7m saving
Aquib $12m cap hit, $11m saving


As,for UFA they can all walk. Davis or nelson may be retained so we do not Have ILB void.

RFA, paradis, Harris Barrett, kreiter, Fowler may all be looking at tenders or contracts

[Rick]

That probably doesn't take into consideration money that will need to be reserved for draft picks, but does go to show how close they are to being able to sign a player like Cousins before they even start looking at restructuring contracts.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Broncos are going to roll in $2018 with $31mill in cap space.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/cap/2018/

Some player cap # and saving if cut

Watson due $7.5 mill, cap hit $5m saving
Cj due $4.5m cap hit, $4.5m saving
Kerr $1.75m cap hit, $1.5m savin
Stewart $5.9m,cap hit, $1.7m saving
Aquib $12m cap hit, $11m saving


As,for UFA they can all walk. Davis or nelson may be retained so we do not Have ILB void.

RFA, paradis, Harris Barrett, kreiter, Fowler may all be looking at tenders or contracts

I don’t think we’ll release Stewart after we just signed him to a new deal last year. Will Parks hasn’t shown me he can do Stewart’s job yet.

[NightTerror218]

I don’t think we’ll release Stewart after we just signed him to a new deal last year. Will Parks hasn’t shown me he can do Stewart’s job yet.

Just throwing out number in some,of,our high cap guys

[dogfish]

That probably doesn't take into consideration money that will need to be reserved for draft picks, but does go to show how close they are to being able to sign a player like Cousins before they even start looking at restructuring contracts.

they can fit cousins if they want to. . . it wouldn't leave much space to put a team around him, though. . . kirk would eat basically all of that available space, and we aren't close to one mediocre QB and a couple rookies away from being a contender. . . yes, we can save money by cutting guys like aqib and CJ, but they're also some of our better players right now, talib in particular. . . IMO, the defense simply won't be the same without him. . . roby's nice, but he's not 21 nice-- and if we put him in the starting lineup, we go from having the best third corner in the game to having a schlub in that critical spot. . . we already have holes to fill at right tackle, tight end (two of 'em), inside linebacker, and slot receiver. . . and we could really use another guard and a swing tackle, and potentially another RB, and another defensive end if they're not going to use walker there. . . that's before we start cutting vets. . . watson will certainly be gone, but he's the only one on that list who wouldn't be missed. . . for most of the other guys on that list (plus DT and sanders), any one of them that you cut just opens another hole on the current roster that will need filled. . .

if you're going to pay a top-five salary to a QB and a pass rusher, you better be able to draft like a mofo to put a team around them. . . personally, i don't trust them to do it. . . nor am i overwhelmingly confident in their ability to draft and develop a QB, either. . . i still think it's the better route, though-- the payoff is higher if you do hit. . . i like cousins, but to me he really is price-prohibitive. . . if we extend latimer, then add in the rookie pool, i think you might have to make a cut or two just to sign kirk himself-- nevermind our plethora of other needs, some of which will almost certainly have to be addressed in free agency. . .

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don’t know dog, we would probably be headed to the playoffs right now if we had mediocre play from the qb position this year

[Rick]

Personally I feel we are 2 players away from a superbowl team. Stud QB and a LT, kick Bolles to RT and I think we are there, if the coaching staff doesn't shoot us in the foot.