MLB 2018 Thread

[Buff]

A few observations about all the hot stove action:

1.) What the Marlins are doing to their fans is criminal. I don't know why you'd pay to support them.

2.) Also feel bad for Coach and O's fans as they look to unload Machado. It makes me wonder if we're gonna go down a similar path with Nolan.

3.) Pretty classy move by the Cardinals organization to trade Piscotty to Oakland to be closer to home where his mom was just diagnosed with ALS.

[weazel]

pretty funny stuff about the Angels new pitcher, Ohtani. Anyone else think this guys gonna be a bust?

[chazoe60]

pretty funny stuff about the Angels new pitcher, Ohtani. Anyone else think this guys gonna be a bust?

I think it's really interesting. I hope he becomes great, it'll be fun to watch.

[Buff]

pretty funny stuff about the Angels new pitcher, Ohtani. Anyone else think this guys gonna be a bust?

The way they are hyping him he seems like a can't miss prospect... But the sprained ligament stuff would be pretty worrying if you've just invested that much in him.

Do they plan to let him hit? I know they were talking about him playing both ways but haven't seen anything about the Angels specifically.

[weazel]

His ability to hit and pitch well is what enticed teams to sign him, I hope they would let him hit but I can definitely see why they would limit him to just pitching. The ligament damage is a problem for sure, could that void the signing?

[MOtorboat]

A few observations about all the hot stove action:

1.) What the Marlins are doing to their fans is criminal. I don't know why you'd pay to support them.

I fully understand the sentiment. And if, for some unknown reason, I rooted for the Marlins, I would be pissed. But, they had the third-worst attendance last year. They weren't supporting the team with Stanton on it.


2.) Also feel bad for Coach and O's fans as they look to unload Machado. It makes me wonder if we're gonna go down a similar path with Nolan.

Feel much worse for this fan base.

3.) Pretty classy move by the Cardinals organization to trade Piscotty to Oakland to be closer to home where his mom was just diagnosed with ALS.

100 percent.

[MOtorboat]

pretty funny stuff about the Angels new pitcher, Ohtani. Anyone else think this guys gonna be a bust?

I've only read the headline, what's the verdict on the elbow?

I think he could be pretty good. He's one of the youngest Japanese players to come over. I think he's only 23, might turn 24 in season. I hope the Angels let him do both, as well, but I'm skeptical. He's been a baseball nerd darling for a couple of years and his legend is probably bigger than his actual play.

[weazel]

Rogers looking to sell the Blue Jays.

[MOtorboat]

Rogers looking to sell the Blue Jays.

That's interesting. Don't they own the building they play in too?

[weazel]

That's interesting. Don't they own the building they play in too?

yes, and the network the games are televised on. The Ontario Teachers Union is interested in purchasing them, sounds weird but that Union owns a shit load of stuff in Canada including half of the trucking companies. They have a lot of money behind them.

[chazoe60]

Rogers looking to sell the Blue Jays.

We should pool our money.

[MOtorboat]

We should pool our money.

Dibs on GM.

[weazel]

We should pool our money.

Let's do it. I could be a 0.00000000000000002% share holder!

[chazoe60]

Dibs on GM.

You, Buff and coach are co-GMs. I'm the rabid fan owner who is just glad to be there.

[weazel]

I just want to be the guy telling the players "No sideburns!"

[chazoe60]

I just want to be the guy telling the players "No sideburns!"

**** that, I'm gonna mandate that all players must have sideburns.

[MOtorboat]

Angels going all in, maybe. Made a move for Ian Kinsler yesterday too.

[CoachChaz]

Listening to offers on a team to adopt until a fan more looney than me puts a hit on the Angelos family. Rangers would be an obvious choice, but preferring an NL team.

[chazoe60]

Listening to offers on a team to adopt until a fan more looney than me puts a hit on the Angelos family. Rangers would be an obvious choice, but preferring an NL team.

The Rockies are in need of knowledgeable fans.

[CoachChaz]

The Rockies are in need of knowledgeable fans.

And knowledgeable ownership. Which is already one of the reasons I'm looking to adopt in the first place.

[Buff]

Evan Longoria to the Giants. That's mildly surprising.

[MOtorboat]

Evan Longoria to the Giants. That's mildly surprising.

They tried like hell to get Stanton.

Sending back Dennard Span. They’ll likely sign Lorenzo Cain.

[Buff]

They tried like hell to get Stanton.

Sending back Dennard Span. They’ll likely sign Lorenzo Cain.

Yeah I was relieved they didn't get Stanton. They needed to do something to upgrade their offense.

[MOtorboat]

Yeah I was relieved they didn't get Stanton. They needed to do something to upgrade their offense.

I’ll be curious to see how Longoria fits in that park, hitting wise. He only hit .261 with 20 homers last year and that’s not really a home run-friendly park.

[Buff]

I’ll be curious to see how Longoria fits in that park, hitting wise. He only hit .261 with 20 homers last year and that’s not really a home run-friendly park.

He's definitely declined - but still mashes lefties and plays great defense. They've been hurting at 3B ever since Pablo left.

[MOtorboat]

He's definitely declined - but still mashes lefties and plays great defense. They've been hurting at 3B ever since Pablo left.

Sandoval was a black hole by the end. It’ll be interesting. Read a Schoenfeld piece from ESPN Monday about how the top, top teams in the league have their in the field lineups set and free agents are having a tough time finding bidders, especially those who are Boras clients as he likes to leverage other teams for overprized contracts. Some of these free agents could end up in places we’re not thinking about now. Also some interesting trades already.

[WTE]

Red Sox trying like hell to get rid of Hanley. No takers. He has a vesting option for 2019 based on plate appearances the Red Sox will make sure he doesn't come close to reaching.

[Buff]

This was something...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=116&v=tDT-a7fh5fc

[MOtorboat]

Le Batard has MLB confused with the NBA. The NBA is the one that takes over ownership of teams and doles out players to the team they see fit (Chris Paul).

And frankly, I don't want to ******* hear it from Marlins "fans." They won two World Series since the Rockies/Marlins were introduced ~25 years ago by doing exactly this. They can shut the **** up. Plus, they had the third-lowest attendance WITH Stanton. Go to the damn games.

[weazel]

dunno if I would give up my top prospect, let alone 4 of them, for Evan Longoria. Maybe 10 years ago, but not now.

[MOtorboat]

dunno if I would give up my top prospect, let alone 4 of them, for Evan Longoria. Maybe 10 years ago, but not now.

I think this calls for a Bay Area radio host to call out the commissioner and then throw a hissy fit!

Turns out my rant isn’t done. The Astros did exactly this when Biggio and Bagwell retired. They’re fans had to listen to how a 5-6 second basemen was the organizations’ savior and how picking the college shortstop wasn’t a value pick over the high school kids.

And what about the Royals, who decided to have one more go and now haven’t even really attempted to go after Hosmer, Moustakas, Cain and Escobar? They aren’t even going to get anything in return for those players except maybe a couple low first and second round picks.

The Braves are in full rebuild mode. Should that ownership be investigated?

Sorry, that’s just ridiculous.

[weazel]

I think this calls for a Bay Area radio host to call out the commissioner and then throw a hissy fit!

Turns out my rant isn’t done. The Astros did exactly this when Biggio and Bagwell retired. They’re fans had to listen to how a 5-6 second basemen was the organizations’ savior and how picking the college shortstop wasn’t a value pick over the high school kids.

And what about the Royals, who decided to have one more go and now haven’t even really attempted to go after Hosmer, Moustakas, Cain and Escobar? They aren’t even going to get anything in return for those players except maybe a couple low first and second round picks.

The Braves are in full rebuild mode. Should that ownership be investigated?

Sorry, that’s just ridiculous.

dunno what all that was about but are you saying you would or would not trade your top prospect and 3 others for Longoria? I don't care either way as I'm not all that interested in MLB and may not realise how great an aging Longoria is.

[MOtorboat]

And let’s talk about ******* Marlins Man. Maybe buy some tickets in the actual stadium where the Marlins are instead of jet-setting around the country to be seen behind home plate at everyone else’s games.

[MOtorboat]

dunno what all that was about but are you saying you would or would not trade your top prospect and 3 others for Longoria? I don't care either way as I'm not all that interested in MLB and may not realise how great an aging Longoria is.

Sorry, I’m on a Marlins whiny fan rant.

The Rays probably won that trade, I don’t disagree.

[weazel]

And let’s talk about ******* Marlins Man. Maybe buy some tickets in the actual stadium where the Marlins are instead of jet-setting around the country to be seen behind home plate at everyone else’s games.

That guy should win some kind of douche of the year award

[Buff]

I think this calls for a Bay Area radio host to call out the commissioner and then throw a hissy fit!

Turns out my rant isn’t done. The Astros did exactly this when Biggio and Bagwell retired. They’re fans had to listen to how a 5-6 second basemen was the organizations’ savior and how picking the college shortstop wasn’t a value pick over the high school kids.

And what about the Royals, who decided to have one more go and now haven’t even really attempted to go after Hosmer, Moustakas, Cain and Escobar? They aren’t even going to get anything in return for those players except maybe a couple low first and second round picks.

The Braves are in full rebuild mode. Should that ownership be investigated?

Sorry, that’s just ridiculous.

*Their

Royals fans should be pissed too.

You raise an interesting point though - certainly teams should be allowed to rebuild if they think that's in their best interest... But I do feel uniquely bad for Florida as this is the 2nd time they've had their entire team basically decimated - how are you supposed to support the team in 2017. If you were a season ticket holder, how could you justify paying for those tickets?

[MOtorboat]

That guy should win some kind of douche of the year award

Derek Jeter (for those who may not know, he’s part of the Marlins’ new ownership group) had a Q&A with fans this week. Marlins Man asked him “do you know who I am?” Yeah, he’s kind of full of himself.

[MOtorboat]

*Their

Royals fans should be pissed too.

You raise an interesting point though - certainly teams should be allowed to rebuild if they think that's in their best interest... But I do feel uniquely bad for Florida as this is the 2nd time they've had their entire team basically decimated - how are you supposed to support the team in 2017. If you were a season ticket holder, how could you justify paying for those tickets?

They have one of the lowest season ticket holder bases in the league. They weren’t paying for it to begin with.

This is just how the sport works. Small market teams lose big name players to trade and free agency. It’s just how it works. When Manfred came at him with the fact that the bottom teams several years ago are at the top now, it basically negates anything he’s whining about.

I’m not pissed. Those guys won a World Series for my team. Now the Royals can’t afford them. So be it.

[CoachChaz]

Could be worse. You could hold on to talent until it's trade value disappears...pay big money for mediocre talent instead...only keep players you like...and still not seriously contend for a championship. Then when your farm system is dead, MLB talent is washed up or injured, tell the fan base you aren't rebuilding...just "retooling". And when you do get offered a valuable trade, you nix it because the incoming player jammed his thumb in high school.

Quite honestly...I have no sympathy for other organizations. Even if they are trending downward, at least they have a direction.

[Dreadnought]

Could be worse. You could hold on to talent until it's trade value disappears...pay big money for mediocre talent instead...only keep players you like...and still not seriously contend for a championship. Then when your farm system is dead, MLB talent is washed up or injured, tell the fan base you aren't rebuilding...just "retooling". And when you do get offered a valuable trade, you nix it because the incoming player jammed his thumb in high school.

Quite honestly...I have no sympathy for other organizations. Even if they are trending downward, at least they have a direction.

see also, the Detroit Tigers - though they are at least open about rebuilding now

[CoachChaz]

And they are open to spending money on quality players.

[MOtorboat]

One month.

[Poet]

And knowledgeable ownership. Which is already one of the reasons I'm looking to adopt in the first place.

Dodgers!

[Buff]

Feel bad for Pirates fans - the McCutchen era should have produced more. He still has plenty of good Coors ABs left in him I'm sure.

[Poet]

Never feel bad for Pittsburgh people, Buff.

Never.

[MOtorboat]

Feel bad for Pirates fans - the McCutchen era should have produced more. He still has plenty of good Coors ABs left in him I'm sure.

And now he'll get more.

[chazoe60]

Chipper Jones, Vlad Guerero (SP?), Hoffman and Jim Thome elected into the HOF. Very good class but here's a problem I have with the voting.
Vlad, a no brainer HOFer best bad-ball hitter of all time, career .318 Batting average got in on his second year of eligibility with 92% of the vote. Why the Hell was he not elected last year? Not good enough to get 75% last year but now 92%

It just annoys me.

[Poet]

Who was in last year's class?

[chazoe60]

Who was in last year's class?

Bagwell, Raines and Pudge

[Poet]

Bagwell, Raines and Pudge

I'd take Vlad over all of them, especially the cheater Pudge.

[chazoe60]

I'd take Vlad over all of them, especially the cheater Pudge.

I don't about that, Raines definitely but Pudge and Bagwell were both awesome. Either way, Vlad would have fit right in with that class.

I just get frustrated at voters who refuse to put a guy in on the first trip. I understand that certain guys need time so their careers can be viewed from a different perspective but Vlad was not one of those guys.

[MOtorboat]

I don't about that, Raines definitely but Pudge and Bagwell were both awesome. Either way, Vlad would have fit right in with that class.

I just get frustrated at voters who refuse to put a guy in on the first trip. I understand that certain guys need time so their careers can be viewed from a different perspective but Vlad was not one of those guys.

In general, I agree with this, but it was time for Raines to be in. There are lots of problems I have with the voting process, one of them being the moral high ground BS the voters have been on lately, but the reason I don't have a problem here is that there isn't a way Vlad wasn't getting in soon.

[Poet]

I don't about that, Raines definitely but Pudge and Bagwell were both awesome. Either way, Vlad would have fit right in with that class.

I just get frustrated at voters who refuse to put a guy in on the first trip. I understand that certain guys need time so their careers can be viewed from a different perspective but Vlad was not one of those guys.

Pudge was a cheater and a coward.

Bagwell was worthy of being in, but Vlad was just more impactful.

I like your take on the first ballot thing. You're a HoFer or you're not. There are special circumstances, but if Vlad wasn't getting in it better have been because a slew of Griffey Jr. type guys were going in ahead of him, or something extreme.

I don't understand the baseball hall of fame. I do like that Pete Rose isn't in the Hall of Fame, though.

[WTE]

Just let them all in at this point.

[CoachChaz]

In all honesty, there is little doubt that the vast majority of players in the 80's and 90's used some sort of PED. At that point, the playing field is level. hard to call any of them cheaters when they were all doing it

[Poet]

In all honesty, there is little doubt that the vast majority of players in the 80's and 90's used some sort of PED. At that point, the playing field is level. hard to call any of them cheaters when they were all doing it

It's an accountability dump, that stance. We know that a lot of players didn't use PED's. I don't have any sympathy for them.

[weazel]

Vlad going in as an Angel... kind of a slap in the face to the Expos.

[CoachChaz]

Vlad going in as an Angel... kind of a slap in the face to the Expos.

And I thought for sure he'd go in as an Oriole...:-)

[OrangeHoof]

HOF watchers complain about the lack of third basemen in the Hall... so Chipper gets in, Thome gets in, Edgar Martinez comes close but Scott Rolen, a better man at his position than any of them, just barely stays eligible. Go figger.

[MOtorboat]

HOF watchers complain about the lack of third basemen in the Hall... so Chipper gets in, Thome gets in, Edgar Martinez comes close but Scott Rolen, a better man at his position than any of them, just barely stays eligible. Go figger.

You're actually questioning why Thome is in the HOF before Rolen?

[chazoe60]

HOF watchers complain about the lack of third basemen in the Hall... so Chipper gets in, Thome gets in, Edgar Martinez comes close but Scott Rolen, a better man at his position than any of them, just barely stays eligible. Go figger.

Scott Rolen? Really?

[OrangeHoof]

The three names mentioned with him all sucked defensively. Edgar was a career DH after a couple of seasons. Chipper got pushed all over the diamond while Thome eventually spent all his time at first. Rolen was a 7-time All-Star, an 8-time gold glover, hit over 300 homers with an .855 OPS and over 2000 hits. I'm not saying he's first-ballot but I do think the voters dissed him.

[MOtorboat]

The three names mentioned with him all sucked defensively. Edgar was a career DH after a couple of seasons. Chipper got pushed all over the diamond while Thome eventually spent all his time at first. Rolen was a 7-time All-Star, an 8-time gold glover, hit over 300 homers with an .855 OPS and over 2000 hits. I'm not saying he's first-ballot but I do think the voters dissed him.

Of those three names, Rolen was, unequivocally, the worst in offensive production. His batting average was 40 points below Martinez and Thome hit 300 more home runs. Chipper Jones hit over .300 as a switch hitter and had an OPS 80 points higher than Rolen.

Rolen is a fantastic player who is borderline and I think will probably get in. But certainly not over Jones or Thome. Edgar Martinez is at least an argument, but what Martinez did at the plate surpasses anything Rolen did playing third base.

[CoachChaz]

Scott Rolen? Really?

Well, a precedent has already been set. Guys like Aparicio, Ozzie Smith, Brooks Robinson, Bill Mazeroski didn't get in because they had great bats. it was defense. And considering a very overrated Omar Vizquel got 30% of votes on his first year tells me there is certainly room for Rolen.

[Poet]

I dislike the concept of a DH getting into the HoF.

[WTE]

I dislike the concept of a DH getting into the HoF.

Why? The DH has been part of the game for 50 years. How is it any different than a closer getting in?

[Poet]

Why? The DH has been part of the game for 50 years. How is it any different than a closer getting in?

Closer's are in every league. DH's are for guys who can't play half the game and are in the easiest position. They don't feel like real players to me, WTE. They just don't.

[WTE]

Closer's are in every league. DH's are for guys who can't play half the game and are in the easiest position. They don't feel like real players to me, WTE. They just don't.

So all of David Ortiz' clutch hits and home runs throughout his long and distinguished career weren't real?

[Poet]

So all of David Ortiz' clutch hits and home runs throughout his long and distinguished career weren't real?

The fact that he got to do nothing but bat which kept him fresh, and the fact that it extended his career, does make me think less of him as a player. But they counted.

DH's remind of of Shaq jogging back to play defense after he hit 30.

[WTE]

The fact that he got to do nothing but bat which kept him fresh, and the fact that it extended his career, does make me think less of him as a player. But they counted.

DH's remind of of Shaq jogging back to play defense after he hit 30.

Election to the Hall should mean you were one of the very few dominating players of your era. Papi and Edgar were one of the most feared hitters of their era and should be in.

Especially when the Hall has been totally diluted the past couple years with selections like Blylevin, Biggio, Santo, etc.

[Poet]

Election to the Hall should mean you were one of the very few dominating players of your era. Papi and Edgar were one of the most feared hitters of their era and should be in.

Especially when the Hall has been totally diluted the past couple years with selections like Blylevin, Biggio, Santo, etc.

But their dominance is inflated because they didn't have to play the game in totality. Edgar isn't a HoFer to me. Papi is.

Further dilution because of past dilution isn't a great argument.

[WTE]

But their dominance is inflated because they didn't have to play the game in totality. Edgar isn't a HoFer to me. Papi is.

Further dilution because of past dilution isn't a great argument.

The DH is part of the game. A very big part in fact. So when you say they didn't have to play the game in it's entirety you are wrong.

In addition, I feel you are too young to remember how dangerous Edgar was to face so I don't feel you are qualified to judge him.

[Poet]

The DH is part of the game. A very big part in fact. So when you say they didn't have to play the game in it's entirety you are wrong.

In addition, I feel you are too young to remember how dangerous Edgar was to face so I don't feel you are qualified to judge him.

No, I'm not wrong. I said you don't have to play the game in totality. And they don't. Hitters clamor to be a DH because it's easy. Barry Bonds wanted to DH because it would have added years to his career. The grind of being out in the field for hours a game is what players try to avoid because it's hard over the course a career, and that's a portion of the game and father time that DH's got to avoid.

I am thirty years old and and well versed in statistics and researching. I'm just fine.

[MOtorboat]

Stop King. Stop it.

[BroncoJoe]

Stop King. Stop it.

I think he's confusing football with baseball. 3/4 of the time, they're just standing out there. Except for the pitcher of course.

[chazoe60]

I think he's confusing football with baseball. 3/4 of the time, they're just standing out there. Except for the pitcher of course.

Try being a catcher. How would your knees feel after playing catcher for 120 games or so?

[Poet]

Stop King. Stop it.

No. Players complain about the grind, even if they're just 'standing there'.

Baseball is a game of long careers and stat accumulation. The notion that avoiding half of the game, the biggest grind of the game at that, doesn't help aging big guys who can't even play said half of the game is absurd.

Some people just don't care about the game.

[MOtorboat]

I think he's confusing football with baseball. 3/4 of the time, they're just standing out there. Except for the pitcher of course.

I mean, if you want to pick nits here you can watch all of the action in either game in 30 minutes. There’s plenty of standing around doing nothing in football too.

[MOtorboat]

No. Players complain about the grind, even if they're just 'standing there'.

Baseball is a game of long careers and stat accumulation. The notion that avoiding half of the game, the biggest grind of the game at that, doesn't help aging big guys who can't even play said half of the game is absurd.

Some people just don't care about the game.

David Ortiz hit 30 something home runs and could barely walk two years ago because his foot was so bad from 20-some years of baseball. I’m not hearing any of this DH crap from you. And I don’t know what that last line means, but if it does what I think it might, **** you.

[Poet]

David Ortiz hit 30 something home runs and could barely walk two years ago because his foot was so bad from 20-some years of baseball. I’m not hearing any of this DH crap from you. And I don’t know what that last line means, but if it does what I think it might, **** you.

And imagine if he had to play his entire career in the field. He probably wouldn't have had as long as a career, his stats would have dropped off, etc. That's actually a great counterargument you made for me.

If you like bloated stats, letting guys extend their careers by avoiding the/a hard part of the game, and want to ignore that they made the DH rule as a way to artificially boost offense, go for it.

I personally find it revolting.

[Buff]

I don't know about revolting... But I have a hard time justifying a DH getting in while guys like Larry Walker, a great two way player, are left out in the cold.

[Poet]

I don't know about revolting... But I have a hard time justifying a DH getting in while guys like Larry Walker, a great two way player, are left out in the cold.

Career DH's have inflated stats and wouldn't have been able to produce like they had they been full-fledged players. It is revolting. They're side show freaks.

[BroncoJoe]

Try being a catcher. How would your knees feel after playing catcher for 120 games or so?

Yes. Sorry. Pitchers and catchers.

[WTE]

So King, given the dynamics of your argument I would assume you don't think American League starting pitchers should qualify for the Hall because they don't hit. Therefore, they don't play the game in its intended entirety and their careers are artificially lengthened because they don't have to face the grind of hitting.

Am I correct to assume you take this position as well?

[Poet]

So King, given the dynamics of your argument I would assume you don't think American League starting pitchers should qualify for the Hall because they don't hit. Therefore, they don't play the game in its intended entirety and their careers are artificially lengthened because they don't have to face the grind of hitting.

Am I correct to assume you take this position as well?

The difference is at least pitchers go up to bat, and get counted as an out almost instantly. It's an apples to oranges comparison as their job is to primarily pitch and field. They, ironically, actually field more than the DH's do, which is kind of funny. Whereas a traditional POSITION player is supposed to go out there and do their actual job, which is to hit and field. Note that when comparing players half the comparison is 'who was better in the field' and we don't do that for DH's because they're missing out on half of their game as a POSITION player. But, to be fair, not having to bat is probably a slight advantage for AL pitchers, and that should be accounted for when comparing the AL, the light league, to the real league with the real players, the NL.


To get back to the AL pitchers, I don't like that they don't bat, but because they only 'play' every five games or so, it's not as big of a deal.

[BroncoJoe]

I mean, if you want to pick nits here you can watch all of the action in either game in 30 minutes. There’s plenty of standing around doing nothing in football too.

OK.

There's hardly a comparison between the wear and tear on a body, but cool.

[CoachChaz]

Career DH's have inflated stats and wouldn't have been able to produce like they had they been full-fledged players. It is revolting. They're side show freaks.

So if Ortiz had stood in the field and contributed absolutely nothing defensively...he would be a better candidate? The HoF is full of guys that had miserable defensive stats. But...they met your qualification and stood there and did nothing positive, so I guess they are more deserving than Ortiz or Martinez.

How would you vote on Babe Ruth had he been a DH?

[Poet]

So if Ortiz had stood in the field and contributed absolutely nothing defensively...he would be a better candidate? The HoF is full of guys that had miserable defensive stats. But...they met your qualification and stood there and did nothing positive, so I guess they are more deserving than Ortiz or Martinez.

How would you vote on Babe Ruth had he been a DH?

Yeah, he would. Because we would get to judge him off of his defense. That's the point. It's not about being a better candidate so much as accounting for what happened in his career. Especially if we are to compare him to another guy vying to get into. That's the entire point.

Ruth's stats were so ungodly, and he was also a very good pitcher. This isn't to say that a DH shouldn't get in, but when comparing him to an actual player who really played the game, it's hard to give the nod to a guy who skipped on half the game, who got inflated stats because he missed out on the wear and tear, etc.

[CoachChaz]

Yeah, he would. Because we would get to judge him off of his defense. That's the point. It's not about being a better candidate so much as accounting for what happened in his career. Especially if we are to compare him to another guy vying to get into. That's the entire point.

Ruth's stats were so ungodly, and he was also a very good pitcher. This isn't to say that a DH shouldn't get in, but when comparing him to an actual player who really played the game, it's hard to give the nod to a guy who skipped on half the game, who got inflated stats because he missed out on the wear and tear, etc.

There are plenty of guys in the Hall that meet your standards. I named a few of them a bit back (B. Robinson, O. Smith). These guys were limited offensively, but got in because of superior defensive skills. So, if we can let fringe hitters in...it's perfectly fine to let fringe defenders in. I mean really...how much wear and tear was playing a miserable first base really go to limit a gut like Ortiz???

[BroncoJoe]

The King is about to get spanked...

[Poet]

There are plenty of guys in the Hall that meet your standards. I named a few of them a bit back (B. Robinson, O. Smith). These guys were limited offensively, but got in because of superior defensive skills. So, if we can let fringe hitters in...it's perfectly fine to let fringe defenders in. I mean really...how much wear and tear was playing a miserable first base really go to limit a gut like Ortiz???

You mean like when Barry Bonds referenced it could have added years to his career, and helped him maintain/stay at a higher level of hitting?

Guys actively want to be DH's for a reason. It's an easier way to play the game. It extends careers. And it extends careers because guys aren't on the field, they're not out there on their feet. They don't have to make the plays. It eliminates the guys from half the game.

And I just told you that guys can get into the HoF being bad at defense. But at least that's part of the definition/discussion of their career. So the subject matter then goes to what? Comparing DH's to other DH's? That presumes a DH is worthy of going in into the first place, and that's literally the starting point for this entire conversation.

Why would I vote someone who skipped half the game over someone who was good at hitting and fielding? The Larry Walker example that Buff brought up, for instance. Also, for your examples, you're citing to guys who are considered the best all time at defense.

There are layers of the conversation being ignored.

And it's not by me.

[CoachChaz]

You mean like when Barry Bonds referenced it could have added years to his career, and helped him maintain/stay at a higher level of hitting?

Guys actively want to be DH's for a reason. It's an easier way to play the game. It extends careers. And it extends careers because guys aren't on the field, they're not out there on their feet. They don't have to make the plays. It eliminates the guys from half the game.

And I just told you that guys can get into the HoF being bad at defense. But at least that's part of the definition/discussion of their career. So the subject matter then goes to what? Comparing DH's to other DH's? That presumes a DH is worthy of going in into the first place, and that's literally the starting point for this entire conversation.

Why would I vote someone who skipped half the game over someone who was good at hitting and fielding? The Larry Walker example that Buff brought up, for instance. Also, for your examples, you're citing to guys who are considered the best all time at defense.

There are layers of the conversation being ignored.

And it's not by me.

I'll give you the tidbit that it extends careers...but with limits. That being said, referencing a guy like Bonds that played until he was 43...no good. Was he really going to hit at a high level until he was 45 or 46? Even with PED's? Probably not. Hitting depends on high end quick twitch abilities and they deteriorate just like any physical ability.

As far as guys "wanting" to DH, is goes deeper than extending a career. Most of those guys know they suck in the field and/or they are just plain lazy to begin with. In reality, the reason guys want to DH and get an extra 2 years of baseball out of their bodies comes down to one primary desire...$$$$$$$ So if your argument revolves around a guy being able to play 5-10 years longer by NOT playing the field, you are WAY off base.

We can also discuss abilities as they pertain to the wear and tear and if it's "easier" to get offensive number when not playing the field. There have beena bunch of studies on this and the results are a big mixed bag. Some players hit better when they play defense...some dont. Some had better years after they became a DH...some didnt. At the end of the day, there is no advantage or disadvantage to a players numbers that can be determined by playing defense. You can either hit...or you cant.

There is a reason the phrase goes, "The hardest thing to do in sports is hit a round ball with a round bat." Not "catch a round ball with a big mitt".

[Poet]

I'll give you the tidbit that it extends careers...but with limits. That being said, referencing a guy like Bonds that played until he was 43...no good. Was he really going to hit at a high level until he was 45 or 46? Even with PED's? Probably not. Hitting depends on high end quick twitch abilities and they deteriorate just like any physical ability.

As far as guys "wanting" to DH, is goes deeper than extending a career. Most of those guys know they suck in the field and/or they are just plain lazy to begin with. In reality, the reason guys want to DH and get an extra 2 years of baseball out of their bodies comes down to one primary desire...$$$$$$$ So if your argument revolves around a guy being able to play 5-10 years longer by NOT playing the field, you are WAY off base.

We can also discuss abilities as they pertain to the wear and tear and if it's "easier" to get offensive number when not playing the field. There have beena bunch of studies on this and the results are a big mixed bag. Some players hit better when they play defense...some dont. Some had better years after they became a DH...some didnt. At the end of the day, there is no advantage or disadvantage to a players numbers that can be determined by playing defense. You can either hit...or you cant.

There is a reason the phrase goes, "The hardest thing to do in sports is hit a round ball with a round bat." Not "catch a round ball with a big mitt".

He didn't just want to DH in his 40's, though. Frank Thomas extended his career for quite some time, as another example. So when a guy might still be able to hit, but the rest of his body is failing/starting to fail, and he goes to DH, we reach the basis of the argument - he's playing longer than he should, he's ignoring half the game, he's not judged on that part of the game when everyone else is, and the excuse for that is that he's a DH. It's a circular to just go 'well he's a DH and it's a position,' although you're not exactly making that line of argumentation.

DH's get more than just two years out of it - longer if they are a skilled hitter. And that's also part of it - I never said Edgar couldn't hit. But I am saying Edgar's career overall numbers would look very differently if he had to be on the field, and he agrees with that as that's literally why he went out to DH in the first place. The money part of it is true, but that's not exactly a counterargument, either. Of course the guy who can still hit well is going to get paid.

And even the studies being a mixed bag isn't that great, either. Did it factor in longevity? Did it factor in injury rates going down when you spend most of the time on the bench? And yeah, hitting is hard, but hitting over the course of a careeer when you have to be on the field is harder. I don't doubt that someone can be a great hitter at 28 as a DH. I just question the legitimacy of his stats at the end of the career, and rewarding him a HoF spot over someone who actually played the rest of the game. Just give the specialty players their own little HoF spot and be done with it.

[MOtorboat]

A DH who is DHing because he is old has more value to his team as a DH than a 1B. It’s not about “ignoring” half the game, it’s about maximizing where you can best be utilized. I’m with you, Walker should be in the Hall. But by the same token, that doesn’t mean Thome shouldn’t be.

Edgar Martinez’s wRC+, which is an adjusted stat to show runs created above a replacement player (100 being the replacement player), is 147. That’s the 33rd best ever. Jim Thome was 145, 41st best all time. Walker’s should be in, he has all the offensive numbers to be there and I don’t know why he isn’t, his wRC+ was 140. Rolens was 122.

DHs add plenty of value, and shouldn’t be excluded from Hall consideration.

[BroncoJoe]

King is getting killed here.

The King is dead.

[Poet]

A DH who is DHing because he is old has more value to his team as a DH than a 1B. It’s not about “ignoring” half the game, it’s about maximizing where you can best be utilized. I’m with you, Walker should be in the Hall. But by the same token, that doesn’t mean Thome shouldn’t be.

Edgar Martinez’s wRC+, which is an adjusted stat to show runs created above a replacement player (100 being the replacement player), is 147. That’s the 33rd best ever. Jim Thome was 145, 41st best all time. Walker’s should be in, he has all the offensive numbers to be there and I don’t know why he isn’t, his wRC+ was 140. Rolens was 122.

DHs add plenty of value, and shouldn’t be excluded from Hall consideration.

We're talking about being a HoFer. Sure there's value, but we're talking about them as player. Just give them their own selection spot, one a year maybe, and let the real players who didn't need the bailout get in. They've tainted stats, led tainted careers, and wouldn't be playing as long or acquiring those bloated statistics had the A.L. not made an abortion of a rule. The D.H. was the first performance enhancer, really.

[MOtorboat]

We're talking about being a HoFer. Sure there's value, but we're talking about them as player. Just give them their own selection spot, one a year maybe, and let the real players who didn't need the bailout get in. They've tainted stats, led tainted careers, and wouldn't be playing as long or acquiring those bloated statistics had the A.L. not made an abortion of a rule. The D.H. was the first performance enhancer, really.

Lol, no.

[Poet]

Lol, no.

Comparing them to their peers is different than saying they have value to a team. I never said they didn't. You are flippant and rude and I will not tolerate your shenanigans anymore! To another thread; one that is filled with love!

[MOtorboat]

Ozzie Smith ignored half the game. He was a bum.

That’s the argument you are making. It’s bad.

[CoachChaz]

Ozzie Smith ignored half the game. He was a bum.

That’s the argument you are making. It’s bad.

He only batted because he had to.

[MOtorboat]

He only batted because he had to.

He required opposing teams to only have to worry about 21 outs per game.

[CoachChaz]

He required opposing teams to only have to worry about 21 outs per game.

With his astonishing .666 career OPS. the crazy thing is that his career oWAR was higher than his career dWAR.

[OrangeHoof]

So King, given the dynamics of your argument I would assume you don't think American League starting pitchers should qualify for the Hall because they don't hit. Therefore, they don't play the game in its intended entirety and their careers are artificially lengthened because they don't have to face the grind of hitting.

Am I correct to assume you take this position as well?

Terrible argument. A starting pitcher is involved in, approximately, 30-40 at bats if he lasts six innings. A DH can last the whole game and be involved in 3-5 at bats. No way can you compare the effort of one with the other.

[Poet]

Ozzie Smith ignored half the game. He was a bum.

That’s the argument you are making. It’s bad.

I said, numerous time, at least the guys at their position who are bad half the game are judged by it.

We judged Smith by offense and defense.

Meanwhile we put guys into the HoF with bloated numbers for the reasons listed above, and over guys who actually played the game.

Gross.

[Hawgdriver]

I feel dirty after witnessing the gore in this thread.

Edgar Martinez is deserving, much in the same way TD was and is.

[OrangeHoof]

I feel dirty after witnessing the gore in this thread.

Edgar Martinez is deserving, much in the same way TD was and is.

Ummm, TD is deserving except he had injuries cut short his career.

Edgar Martinez had a long career but did nothing but DH after the first couple of seasons. Maybe if you compared Edgar to a field goal kicker, you might make more sense.

[MOtorboat]

Ummm, TD is deserving except he had injuries cut short his career.

Edgar Martinez had a long career but did nothing but DH after the first couple of seasons. Maybe if you compared Edgar to a field goal kicker, you might make more sense.

That is an astoundingly stupid thing to say.

[MOtorboat]

Here are the players who have an OPS+ that is 147 (42nd best ever):

Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell, Jim Thome, Mike Schmidt, Sam Thompson, Edgar Martinez.

In a game where hitting and pitching is the most important aspects to have a player associated with those players statistically is Hall of Fame worthy. To say that's not, is plain and simple, dumb, and you literally don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[MOtorboat]

Here are the 14 players with higher career batting averages than Edgar Martinez to retire after 1950:

Tony Gwynn, Ted Williams, Wade Boggs, Rod Carew, Stan Musial, Vladimir Guerrero, Kirby Puckett, Miguel Cabrera, Roberto Clemente, Jose Altuve, Todd Helton, Joey Votto, Nomar Garciaparra, Larry Walker.

Ichiro, Manny Ramirez and Edgar Martinez all hit .312.

[MOtorboat]

Here are the players to hit over .300 with 300 home runs, 500 doubles and 1200 walks since 1950:

Todd Helton, Manny Ramirez, Albert Pujols, Hank Aaron, Chipper Jones, Willie Mays, Edgar Martinez.

[MOtorboat]

This is fun, hit over .300, 300 home runs, 500 doubles and an OPS of over .900:

Miguel Cabrera, Todd Helton, Manny Ramirez, Edgar Martinez, Albert Pujols, Hank Aaron, Chipper Jones and Willie Mays.

I never saw Hank Aaron and Willie Mays play. Were they good?

[MOtorboat]

Ummm, TD is deserving except he had injuries cut short his career.

Edgar Martinez had a long career but did nothing but DH after the first couple of seasons. Maybe if you compared Edgar to a field goal kicker, you might make more sense.

I mean, you might, sort of have an argument if you were talking about Scott Rolen. His six-year stretch from 2001-2006 was dominant for his position. Five all-star appearances, six gold gloves, an MVP, a fourth-place MVP finish...

Not Edgar Martinez. Nope.

[Hawgdriver]

Ummm, TD is deserving except he had injuries cut short his career.

Edgar Martinez had a long career but did nothing but DH after the first couple of seasons. Maybe if you compared Edgar to a field goal kicker, you might make more sense.

Yes, the career length isn't the comparison, glad you caught that.

The underdog who is deserving and finally gets in after an underrepresented market makes a strong, compelling case for a deserving member continually overlooked.

[WTE]

Anybody who only posts in Broncos Talk and not The Lounge should not be eligible for the Broncosforum Hall of Fame.

[chazoe60]

Hey MO, will Todd get in?

[slim]

Hey MO, will Todd get in?

He just made a pretty strong argument.

[MOtorboat]

Hey MO, will Todd get in?

He damn well better.

[OrangeHoof]

I mean, you might, sort of have an argument if you were talking about Scott Rolen. His six-year stretch from 2001-2006 was dominant for his position. Five all-star appearances, six gold gloves, an MVP, a fourth-place MVP finish...

Not Edgar Martinez. Nope.


Oh, gee. Let's compare Rolen's six-year peak to Edgar's (1995-2000 - smack in the middle of the steroid era). Martinez win any MVP's - no. Closest he came was 3rd. Win any Gold Gloves? (HAHAHAHAHA). Five All-Star appearances. Plus, Edgar played half his games in that roller rink known as the Kingdome while Rolen was playing in a pitcher's park at Busch.

How does a guy like this not come close to 2500 hits, much less 3000?

BTW, Rolen was Rookie of the Year, not an MVP - just for the sake of correcting the record.

Mo is the same idiot that once tried to compare Negro League players he thought should be in the Hall and came up with the name of a woman because she was on a list of possible inductees for being an executive. His credibility on anything to do with baseball is below zero as far as I'm concerned.

[chazoe60]

Well that got out of hand quick

[Poet]

Easy boys. We're just some brochachos talking baseball.

[MOtorboat]

Oh, gee. Let's compare Rolen's six-year peak to Edgar's (1995-2000 - smack in the middle of the steroid era). Martinez win any MVP's - no. Closest he came was 3rd. Win any Gold Gloves? (HAHAHAHAHA). Five All-Star appearances. Plus, Edgar played half his games in that roller rink known as the Kingdome while Rolen was playing in a pitcher's park at Busch.

How does a guy like this not come close to 2500 hits, much less 3000?

BTW, Rolen was Rookie of the Year, not an MVP - just for the sake of correcting the record.

Mo is the same idiot that once tried to compare Negro League players he thought should be in the Hall and came up with the name of a woman because she was on a list of possible inductees for being an executive. His credibility on anything to do with baseball is below zero as far as I'm concerned.

Mamie Johnson wasn’t an executive then. And still isn’t now. I’m not the one who claimed there was no quality pitching in the Negro Leagues.

[chazoe60]

MLB network was talking about the best Pirates of all time and didn't mention Honus Wagner, the GREATEST Pirate of all time. W T F?

[MOtorboat]

MLB network was talking about the best Pirates of all time and didn't mention Honus Wagner, the GREATEST Pirate of all time. W T F?

Who did they mention?

[chazoe60]

Who did they mention?

A bunch of guys. Bonds, Clemente etc..

[WTE]

A bunch of guys. Bonds, Clemente etc..

Nobody looked better in a Pirates uniform than Willie Stargell.

[chazoe60]

Nobody looked better in a Pirates uniform than Willie Stargell.

They mention him. Not mentioning Wagner is just plain dumb though.

[weazel]

I can kind of agree with King, but then again, I don't think kickers should be in the NFL HOF

[WTE]

Cleveland Indians parting ways with Chief Wahoo beginning in 2019. That will make Arapaho happy.

[BroncoJoe]

Cleveland Indians parting ways with Chief Wahoo beginning in 2019. That will make Arapaho happy.

Dumb.

[WTE]

Dumb.

They have been phasing him out lately anyway. He hasn't been on their caps.

[chazoe60]

This is why Vin is the best that ever was or ever will be. A reciting of "Tinkers to Evers to Chance", a history lesson and perfect play-by-play all at the same time.

I miss listening to him. The greatest sports broadcaster of all time IMHO.

https://youtu.be/Oqqu6ZD41BA

[MOtorboat]

How the hell do you know, off the top of your head and in the middle of another story, that Nate ******* Schierholz, a classic AAAA outfielder on the opposing team, is wearing batting gloves when he normally doesn't. Vin Scully was just amazing.

[Poet]

Chaz likes him so much that he says Scully was the only good thing about the Dodgers organization.

[chazoe60]

Chaz likes him so much that he says Scully was the only good thing about the Dodgers organization.

Scully and Jackie.

[Poet]

Scully and Jackie.

I thought you didn't mind the Brooklyn Dodgers. I apologize for short changing your hatred. Dodgers are the best, man.

[chazoe60]

I thought you didn't mind the Brooklyn Dodgers. I apologize for short changing your hatred. Dodgers are the best, man.

The Astros are the best, right now anyway.

[chazoe60]

By the way King, were you upset with how Roberts handled the pitching staff in the WS? I think he cost the Dodgers a Championship personally.

[Poet]

By the way King, were you upset with how Roberts handled the pitching staff in the WS? I think he cost the Dodgers a Championship personally.

It's a tough one. At that the time, I felt like the Astros were just going to hit anything, and it didn't really matter. I also know that he stuck to the same strategy that got them there. But, there is a point where being unable to adapt is a failure in and of itself. But, maybe he was able to adapt but really thought the strategy was best. I suspect that he would have done things differently. The question is if it's just because of hindsight being 20/20, if he learned from his mistake, if he made a mistake, etc.

[Poet]

The Astros are the best, right now anyway.

Nah. Whatever I love is the best.

[MOtorboat]

Have I ever mentioned Heidi Watney? I'm mentioning Heidi Watney. I love baseball.

[Buff]

who?

[MOtorboat]

who?

:sigh:

[WTE]

Have I ever mentioned Heidi Watney? I'm mentioning Heidi Watney. I love baseball.

I was pissed when she left Boston along with Jenny Dell.

[MOtorboat]

I can't wait to find out who is in the best shape of their life!

[Buff]

I can't wait to find out who is in the best shape of their life!

It begins...

Madison Bumgarner is in the best shape of his life - http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2018/02/11/madison-bumgarner-is-in-the-best-shape-of-his-life/

[MOtorboat]

It begins...

Madison Bumgarner is in the best shape of his life - http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2018/02/11/madison-bumgarner-is-in-the-best-shape-of-his-life/

Matt Kemp has lost 40 pounds.

[MOtorboat]

Also, less cutting down trees, more core work = BEST SHAPE OF HIS LIFE!

[Dapper Dan]

I'm still a Reds fan but I don't want to be. Is this how the Browns feel?

[Poet]

Root for a team with an owner and front office that gives a ****. Don't root for Cincinnati based teams, man. That city is trash. It's been trash. It'll be trash. There's nothing good there. **** the Reds. **** Joey Votto. **** Johnny Bench!

[Dapper Dan]

I love Joey Votto

[Poet]

He doesn't care about winning and he's a weirdo. He's probably a good person, but he is to be hated.

[Dapper Dan]

He doesn't care about winning and he's a weirdo. He's probably a good person, but he is to be hated.

He’s just Canadian.

[Poet]

You persuaded me.

[Dapper Dan]

You persuaded me.

I'm sorry if I did, because love hurts. It's only a matter of time before Votto is gone. Just like Dunn. Just like Casey. Just like Freel. Just like Griffey. Hold me.

[Poet]

Phillips was the worst for me, man.

[MOtorboat]

Jeez, enough Reds talk...

[Poet]

Jeez, enough Reds talk...

What do you think about Judge?

[MOtorboat]

What do you think about Judge?

He was amazing last year. Stanton and Judge are guaranteed to make me sick as a Yankees hater.

[Poet]

Mo, I love baseball.

[MOtorboat]

Mo, I love baseball.

I'm glad that you do. I do too.

[Poet]

I'm glad that you do. I do too.

I believe my Dodgers will take a step back and make the wild card.

[chazoe60]

I've had a unhealthy obsession with baseball for about the last 5 years.

[MOtorboat]

I believe my Dodgers will take a step back and make the wild card.

Who will win the West then?

Arizona is the most likely to win it if LA doesn't. Colorado and San Francisco have big question marks, like the back end of both rotations.

[Poet]

I've had a unhealthy obsession with baseball for about the last 5 years.

I think it's good for you. It's a peaceful game and you, just like I, have a rageful nature. I remember how much fun I used to have watching it.

Back when I was a younger man. Back when I had dreams.

But we're past that. I just enough it now because the season is so long it's 'always' a diversion. And I like reading the history. I figured out that I don't want to root for a team (in any sport) that isn't at least an occasional move maker. The hot stove part of baseball is what I like. And I like big name pitchers and hitters doing work.

I want the glitz and the glam. It's why I hated being a Reds fan. Just bleh. Bland. Irrelevant. The Dodgers are older, bloated, and the team's about to fall apart in the next two seasons. Regardless, they're of the mindset to retool and try.

Do that work!

[Poet]

Who will win the West then?

Arizona is the most likely to win it if LA doesn't. Colorado and San Francisco have big question marks, like the back end of both rotations.

San Francisco is my pick.

[MOtorboat]

San Francisco is my pick.

They really strengthened their lineup this offseason, but the back of that rotation is not good. I forgot about Austin Jackson.

[chazoe60]

I think it's good for you. It's a peaceful game and you, just like I, have a rageful nature. I remember how much fun I used to have watching it.

Back when I was a younger man. Back when I had dreams.

But we're past that. I just enough it now because the season is so long it's 'always' a diversion. And I like reading the history. I figured out that I don't want to root for a team (in any sport) that isn't at least an occasional move maker. The hot stove part of baseball is what I like. And I like big name pitchers and hitters doing work.

I want the glitz and the glam. It's why I hated being a Reds fan. Just bleh. Bland. Irrelevant. The Dodgers are older, bloated, and the team's about to fall apart in the next two seasons. Regardless, they're of the mindset to retool and try.

Do that work!

It is calming. Football stresses me out while baseball is a purely joyful experience. My family's life revolves around baseball for a little over 5 months of the year.

Between my son and daughter they play 110+ baseball/softball games a season and combined with practices we spend a huge chunk of everyday doing something baseball related and when we are home just relaxing the TV is on either the Rockies game or MLB network.

The cool thing is that even if my kids have a bad game or their team loses I still have a good day if it's spent with the family at the diamond.

[Poet]

As football declines (for variety of reasons) do you think baseball's popularity will pick back up?

[chazoe60]

As football declines (for variety of reasons) do you think baseball's popularity will pick back up?

I don't know. I hope so. It seems like basketball is the popular sport with kids. In talking with kids I've coached and my son's friends it seems like 70% or more of them will tell you that basketball is their favorite sport. I see a ton of kids wearing basketball stuff and very few wearing baseball stuff.

[Poet]

Baseball gear isn't really fun to wear, aside from the hat. I love the association, but it's a little top heavy as a sport.

[chazoe60]

Baseball gear isn't really fun to wear, aside from the hat. I love the association, but it's a little top heavy as a sport.

Have you seen baseballism? They make great baseball themed stuff. A ton of shirts and hats. My son wears three kinds of tee-shirts
70% baseball shirts (most of them from baseballism)
20% star wars
10% Simpsons.

I don't know that he owns a shirt that doesn't fit into one of those categories.

[Buff]

Arizona is following the Rockies' lead and implementing a humidor -

https://twitter.com/DerekCarty/status/963625459811577858

[Dapper Dan]

I’ve thought about going to a few Nashville Sounds games. They’re a Triple A affiliate for Oakland. Should I be an A’s fan?

[Buff]

I’ve thought about going to a few Nashville Sounds games. They’re a Triple A affiliate for Oakland. Should I be an A’s fan?

They'd be more fun to root for than the Reds. Have you seen/read Moneyball?

[MOtorboat]

I’ve thought about going to a few Nashville Sounds games. They’re a Triple A affiliate for Oakland. Should I be an A’s fan?

You should go to games, hell yeah.

I don't know about being an A's fan, though.

[MOtorboat]

They'd be more fun to root for than the Reds. Have you seen/read Moneyball?

Not if he's worried about selling off players...

[Dapper Dan]

You should go to games, hell yeah.

I don't know about being an A's fan, though.

Nashville SC plays at the Sounds ballpark. I went Saturday and it’s a neat stadium. Big screen is guitar shaped.

11785

[MOtorboat]

Nashville SC plays at the Sounds ballpark. I went Saturday and it’s a neat stadium. Big screen is guitar shaped.

11785

Best scoreboard in sports.

[Dapper Dan]

They'd be more fun to root for than the Reds. Have you seen/read Moneyball?

I’ve grown to like the Orioles over the past few years. I just wish they were closer.

[Buff]

I’ve grown to like the Orioles over the past few years. I just wish they were closer.

Don't fight your natural affinity for a team... Just go with it. Kind of like dave's sexuality.

[Buff]

Orioles signed Andrew Cashner - which is great if you're a hitter in the AL East... Not great if you're Coach.

[MOtorboat]

Orioles signed Andrew Cashner - which is great if you're a hitter in the AL East... Not great if you're Coach.

Lol. There’s no way I’d want to pitch in that division right now.

[Poet]

My background sound as I work: documentary on Ted Williams; Carl Yastremzki; Mickey Mantle. Each one was about an hour.

There's one on Ty Cobb floating around, but I don't want to listen to it until I read more up on the details of his life and how they may or may not have been false.

[Dapper Dan]

The Orioles seem to have shit pitching and one really good closer.

[chazoe60]

My background sound as I work: documentary on Ted Williams; Carl Yastremzki; Mickey Mantle. Each one was about an hour.

There's one on Ty Cobb floating around, but I don't want to listen to it until I read more up on the details of his life and how they may or may not have been false.

Read Ty Cobb: a Terrible Beauty

Fascinating book and will probably change your outlook on who he was as a man. Also just look up some of his own quotes about the integration of baseball, those quotes are not the thoughts of a viscious racist.

His dad was a progressive southern politician. Al Stump was a fraudulent drunk lying *******.

[Poet]

Read Ty Cobb: a Terrible Beauty

Fascinating book and will probably change your outlook on who he was as a man. Also just look up some of his own quotes about the integration of baseball, those quotes are not the thoughts of a viscious racist.

His dad was a progressive southern politician. Al Stump was a fraudulent drunk lying *******.

I knew that there are disputes about his legacy. It's something that's on the to do list.

I think my favorite player is Mickey Mantle. What a story.

[Poet]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-pitchers-of-all-time/

I love Pedro.

[chazoe60]

I knew that there are disputes about his legacy. It's something that's on the to do list.

I think my favorite player is Mickey Mantle. What a story.

I'm a Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Walter Johnson and Jackie Robinson kind of guy. I love old school baseball history.

[Poet]

The history of baseball is the best part of it. The fact that it's a fact based game for analysis and not just 'zomg winning makes you the best' is refreshing. Baseball analysis is much better than the crockery that we get in the NFL.

[chazoe60]

The history of baseball is the best part of it. The fact that it's a fact based game for analysis and not just 'zomg winning makes you the best' is refreshing. Baseball analysis is much better than the crockery that we get in the NFL.

Drew Goodman always says "baseball is like water, it always finds it's level"

I don't think he came up with that but it's a saying he uses frequently. He's the Rockies announcer on Root Sports, if you didn't know who he is.

[Buff]

Drew Goodman always says "baseball is like water, it always finds it's level"

I don't think he came up with that but it's a saying he uses frequently. He's the Rockies announcer on Root Sports, if you didn't know who he is.

Wasn't it glorious not having to listen to George Frazier last year? Now if we could just get rid of Jeff Huson and Jenny Cavnar. I like Drew & Spilly.

[chazoe60]

Wasn't it glorious not having to listen to George Frazier last year? Now if we could just get rid of Jeff Huson and Jenny Cavnar. I like Drew & Spilly.

I like Jenny, but I agree on Huson. Drew and Spilly for every game would be awesome. Spilly makes it so much fun.

[Buff]

I like Jenny, but I agree on Huson. Drew and Spilly for every game would be awesome. Spilly makes it so much fun.

Actually all things considered I'd rather listen to her than Marc Stout. But I just get tired of the pointless "guy roaming the stands" reports. They are always nails on chalkboard for me and I mute them.

[MOtorboat]

Y'all don't know bad, nightly baseball announcing...Ryan Lefebvre is fantastic as the lead play by play but Rex Hudler, color, and Steve Physioc, stand in play by play (Royals do a lot of TV/Radio crossover), are just brutal.

[Buff]

Y'all don't know bad, nightly baseball announcing...Ryan Lefebvre is fantastic as the lead play by play but Rex Hudler, color, and Steve Physioc, stand in play by play (Royals do a lot of TV/Radio crossover), are just brutal.

If there is ONE thing we know - it's bad, nightly baseball announcing. The Rockies broadcast has been bush league for quite some time (even though I like Drew).

[MOtorboat]

If there is ONE thing we know - it's bad, nightly baseball announcing. The Rockies broadcast has been bush league for quite some time (even though I like Drew).

It can get worse. Trust me.

[Poet]

Babe Ruth is my spirit animal.

[MOtorboat]

Just some gems:


https://youtu.be/8HqHgsJ_-h4


https://youtu.be/hCcn4HLEi1U


https://youtu.be/8kKFjkBtcg8

[Poet]

That's embarrassing.

[MOtorboat]

That's embarrassing.

I haven't even gotten to the good part:

Hudisms:

https://youtu.be/UsnC8rMrOeE

[Poet]

Why?

[MOtorboat]

Why?

Because you can't sneak a piece of cheese past a hungry rat. That's why.

[MOtorboat]

Sigh.

[Poet]

Sigh.

???

[MOtorboat]

???

The Padres lured Eric Hosmer away. Dayton Moore two weeks ago said he had become the off-season priority.

[Poet]

The Padres are trying to build a team.

[MOtorboat]

The Padres are trying to build a team.

I'm not exactly sure what they're doing.

I know what the Royals are doing, and why, but I would have liked to see Hosmer back even if he wouldn't have made much of a difference in KC. This is the price of the World Series for KC, which was depleting the system to get there, and it's frustrating now but it was well worth the championship.

[Poet]

Well, at least you didn't lose your arguably second best pitcher and have no viable replacement for him.

[MOtorboat]

Well, at least you didn't lose your arguably second best pitcher and have no viable replacement for him.

The Dodgers lost Rich Hill?

[Poet]

Yu Darvish. Yu Yu. YU Yu! Yu really wanna know! Yuuuuu are you? Yu Yu! YU YU!

[MOtorboat]

Yu Darvish. Yu Yu. YU Yu! Yu really wanna know! Yuuuuu are you? Yu Yu! YU YU!

BTW, the Royals lost their second best pitcher, too. And third.

They haven't been replaced. I don't want to hear it from a Dodgers fan.

[Poet]

BTW, the Royals lost their second best pitcher, too. And third.

They haven't been replaced. I don't want to hear it from a Dodgers fan.

You won a world series. My plight is clearly larger.

[chazoe60]

Meanwhile Rockies fan says **** both of you.

[Poet]

Rockies are winning the division or getting a WC.

[MOtorboat]

https://twitter.com/buster_espn/status/966095073573310464

[MOtorboat]

Joey Votto is just ******* awesome.

His interview on the 30 in 30 show on MLB Network is straight up baseball nerd porn.

[Poet]

He doesn't care about being a winner - he just wants to be an aloof guy wrapped up in his own mind.

He used to be my favorite.

[MOtorboat]

Baseball on the radio.

[Poet]

I'm mad that my gamepass doesn't let me watch today's game online....but I can listen to it. So...there's that.

I wonder what listening to baseball on the radio back in the day was like.

[MOtorboat]

I'm mad that my gamepass doesn't let me watch today's game online....but I can listen to it. So...there's that.

I wonder what listening to baseball on the radio back in the day was like.

Game probably wasn’t televised.

[Poet]

Game probably wasn’t televised.

The television company styled on me.

[MOtorboat]

The television company styled on me.

Royals Network only televises about three or four, I think. That’s ok. No need to burn yourself out on Spring Training games. Phillies, Yankees and several others broadcast almost all of them. Way too much.

[chazoe60]

Royals Network only televises about three or four, I think. That’s ok. No need to burn yourself out on Spring Training games. Phillies, Yankees and several others broadcast almost all of them. Way too much.

I can't find Rockies Spring games to save my life. It sucks.

[MOtorboat]

I can't find Rockies Spring games to save my life. It sucks.

Do you have MLBN? Or At Bat? I can catch some Royals and Rockies games on At Bat when the other teams broadcast the games. ROOT should broadcast a few.

[Poet]

Sign Arrieta!

[MOtorboat]

Sounds like Shohei is gonna be a hitter, and about a No. 3-like starter...

[chazoe60]

Sounds like Shohei is gonna be a hitter, and about a No. 3-like starter...

It's going to be interesting to watch. I'm glad he landed with the Angels. Because of my man crush on Mike Trout I'm kind of an Angels fan.

[MOtorboat]

I'm convinced that Zack Greinke is just continuously trolling the world. He once spent a spring training in KC only throwing changeups.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2018/03/08/zack-greinke-is-struggling-to-crack-90-m-p-h-with-his-fastball/

[Poet]

I wish we'd sign Arrieta.

[Dapper Dan]

I wish we'd sign Arrieta.

Me too. Looks like we missed him. How do our Dodgers look this year?

[Poet]

Me too. Looks like we missed him. How do our Dodgers look this year?

I think we're going to step back a little bit but the roster is still pretty strong. They got some kids from the minors they might call up (highly rated prospects) which is exciting.

Welcome to the Dodger Gang! Thus far the rosters include both of us and Lawdog.

[OrangeHoof]

Astros are at the White House today. I can just picture Jose Altuve trying to convince the Secret Service that he's a baseball player, much less league MVP.

[Dapper Dan]

I think my post got deleted.

[OrangeHoof]

I think my post got deleted.

Congratulations, genius! Care to guess why?

[Dapper Dan]

Congratulations, genius! Care to guess why?

Censorship. Fake news. Obama. Illegals.

[Poet]

Censorship. Fake news. Obama. Illegals.

Don't build a wall around your point - be more plain spoken!

[Pudge]

I think my post got deleted.

Free speech is under attack not only from the far left, but also the moderators of this forum. I demand an explanation from not only the mods, but Tned.

By the way guys, did you know Tned had a "Justice for Rodney King" shirt in the mid 90's?

[MOtorboat]

So is this not a good time to ask you ******s my annual “any interest in a fantasy league” question?

[Pudge]

So is this not a good time to ask you ******s my annual "any interest in a fantasy league" question?

Shut up MO, we want answers, not fantasy dungeon and dragons shit

[Dapper Dan]

So is this not a good time to ask you ******s my annual “any interest in a fantasy league” question?

As long as it’s a keeper. And Hoof’s racist ass isn’t there.

[Poet]

So is this not a good time to ask you ******s my annual “any interest in a fantasy league” question?

I'm bad at updating them and I don't really know how to draft a Baseball FF team well.

[MOtorboat]

I'm bad at updating them and I don't really know how to draft a Baseball FF team well.

I know. I’m just trying to win a mother****ing baseball league, man.

[Pudge]

I know. I'm just trying to win a mother****ing baseball league, man.

Hey MO, why do you hate hoof?

[MOtorboat]

Hey MO, why do you hate hoof?

Because he’s not as funny as he thinks he is.

[Pudge]

Because he's not as funny as he thinks he is.

I hate him too, I just wanted to know why you hated him. Seems like weak reasoning, but at least we came to the same conclusion.

[Dapper Dan]

Thoughts on Cobb and the Orioles?

[Buff]

Thoughts on Cobb and the Orioles?

Kind of deviates from their strategy of only signing the shittiest MLB pitchers this offseason (Cashner, Tillman)... Not sure how recovered he is from injuries, but when healthy he was pretty good.

[Poet]

Where's Coach? I want this take on this one.

[MOtorboat]

Thoughts on Cobb and the Orioles?

Why develop anyone!?

[MOtorboat]

World Series Champ: Nationals over Yankees
World Series MVP: Max Scherzer

National League
NL Champship Series: Nationals over Cubs
NL Division Series: Nationals over Giants
NL Division Series: Cubs over Dodgers
NL Wildcard: Giants over Brewers
NL MVP: Bryce Harper
NL Cy Young: Madison Bumgarner

American League
AL Championship Series: Yankees over Astros
AL Division Series: Astros over Twins
AL Division Series: Yankees over Indians
AL Wildcard: Twins over Red Sox
AL MVP: Giancarlo Stanton
AL Cy Young: Lance McCullers Jr.