Todd McShay mocks Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen to the Broncos

[Cugel]

Oh, goody. Another Paxton Lynch here we go! :shocked:


Todd McShay mocks Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen to the Broncos (https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/12/13/16772006/todd-mcshay-mocks-wyoming-quarterback-josh-allen-to-the-broncos)
53 comments
It’s beginning to look a lot like mock draft season.
By Scotty Payne@Skotty_Payne Dec 13, 2017, 10:01am MST

Jeffrey Becker-USA TODAY Sports

ESPN’s draft expert Todd McShay has released his first mock draft of the year and he has the Broncos addressing the quarterback position. Many want Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield but McShay has the Broncos taking the very raw Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen.

If there ever was a “John Elway quarterback”, Allen would be it. He has the height, he has a cannon for an arm, he’s athletic, and he also is super raw/project. This basically sums up his last two high round quarterback selections.

Jared Tokarz @NFLDraftInsider

NFL Scout text on Josh Allen “Great, he has The meauseables you look for. So did Brock Osweiler. He’s a long term project”
8:13 PM - Dec 7, 2017

Here is what McShay had to say about his reasoning behind this selection.

5. Denver Broncos

Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming*

Even after taking Paxton Lynch No. 26 overall in 2016, the Broncos are clearly still in need of a franchise QB. Lynch has thrown only 97 passes in two seasons, and he was beaten by Trevor Siemian for the starting QB spot this season. If Denver doesn't address the position in free agency, Allen should be the pick. There's no question that he struggled this season at Wyoming and needs to improve his decision-making, but he lost four of his skill position players from 2016 to the NFL. Allen has an elite arm and is a physical freak in terms of his skill set. His stock should rise in the postseason process.

I have mixed feelings about Allen. Yes, he looks the part much like Paxton Lynch did, but he’s likely not day one ready and will need some seasoning before taking that next step or two as an NFL quarterback. Again, another “boom or bust quarterback”, and I am not sure that is what this team needs right now.

First off, I think Allen will go in the same range that Paxton Lynch went. To a playoff team that has an aging quarterback(Steelers?) and can let him sit and grow before hitting the field. I would absolutely not take him in the top 5. I have my doubts about the Broncos interest in either Baker Mayfield or Lamar Jackson, but I’d take both over Allen right now no questions asked.

Here is the order McShay has the quarterbacks going in his mock draft.

1: Sam Darnold - Cleveland Browns

2: Josh Rosen - New York Giants

5: Josh Allen - Denver Broncos

19: Baker Mayfield - Los Angeles Chargers

Now there is some silver lining for Allen. He played for Craig Bohl at Wyoming, the same coach who helped develop current Eagles quarterback and potential MVP candidate Carson Wentz. The offense he runs is one of the more “pro-style” offenses you will see in college, so he would at least have some experience there. The learning curve wouldn’t be nearly as steep as it was for Paxton Lynch who was in a very simple college offense at Memphis.

It’s a very safe bet that John Elway will be a fan of Allen’s but I highly doubt he would take the Wyoming signal caller at 5. It’s very early in the process, but this is one name to watch and one who likely be connected to the Broncos a lot this offseason.

Pass. :coffee:

This is a "John Elway likes beating his head against a rock in the theory that if he beats it hard enough for long enough the rock will eventually break." It didn't work with Brock Osweiler, and it didn't work with Paxton, but third time's the charm "Big tall QB who is a long term project." Frankly, I'd far rather that if they can't get an elite prospect who should be pro-ready year one, they take a LT in the first round and draft a QB in the second. At least then next season their OL should be improved.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Allen reminds me nothing of Lynch or Osweiler. Allen is a playmaker.

[dogfish]

F off, mcshay!

[Cugel]

Allen reminds me nothing of Lynch or Osweiler. Allen is a playmaker.

I assume Paxton made plays at Memphis too. I didn't watch him so I have no personal opinion.

[Cugel]

F off, mcshay!

Is this a general dislike of Todd McShay or is there some method to your madness? :laugh:

[Rick]

I like the mock where we went ahead and took the top OT on the board...

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I assume Paxton made plays at Memphis too. I didn't watch him so I have no personal opinion.

Not really, he was more of a game manager. Most of his throws were short. He did throw deep occasionally, but not very often. His highlight reel isn’t overly impressive. You could say the same thing about Brock.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Of all the QBs, I’d be least happy with Allen. We don’t need another giraffe 3.0.

[Hawgdriver]

Allen, Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, Rudolph, Browning, Thorson...they all seem like plausible candidates for a solid QBF. None are ready to lead to playoffs in 2018 except maybe Rosen. Take the one that likes to grind, loves the game, has the most to prove, has adequate skill. Good to excellent skill is even better.

Just...take one of them dammit.

[VonDoom]

I don't see the hype with this guy. Another tall, big armed "project" that might pay off in 2-3 years. No thanks.

Albright is saying that the media is a lot higher on this guy than front office people he spoke to - I wonder if that plays out on draft night. I'm assuming he will impress at the combine and make some team bite early. Hopefully not us.

[FanInAZ]

The Browns have to trade the 1st pick. They already have 3 1st rounders, including the 1st pick, from last year still on their roster. They also have a 2nd round QB from last year, and the 7th pick of this year's, which is going to add up to an enormous salary cap hit on 5 very young and inexperienced players. Do they want to add the cap hit that comes from having a 5th 1st rounder/a 2nd, 2nd pick/2nd QB in last 2 drafts. Once they trade the pick, you can put this entire mock draft in the cyber-paper shredder.

[MOtorboat]

I don't see the hype with this guy. Another tall, big armed "project" that might pay off in 2-3 years. No thanks.

Albright is saying that the media is a lot higher on this guy than front office people he spoke to - I wonder if that plays out on draft night. I'm assuming he will impress at the combine and make some team bite early. Hopefully not us.

I despise excuses for quarterbacks, and some of this might sound like excuses, but...

I felt like he was a playmaker in 2016, and he lost a drafted running back and a drafted center on a Mountain West offense, which is a big loss for a Group of Five team. He also lost his top three receiving targets including a 72-catch, 1,300-yard, 14 TD receiver (which is quite the year in the pros, let alone at a Group of 5 school, he's UDFA with the Bears, made the roster; And a tight end who was UDFA, playing with the Patriots, active roster).

Baker Mayfield has four- and five-star talent backing up his starters. A guy like Allen just doesn't get that at Wyoming. I think he's much less of a project than Lynch or Osweiler. During the CSU-Wyoming game this season, the announcers talked specifically about how he changed his film study to help him at the next level, and he's running the same system with the same coaches that Carson Wentz had at North Dakota State.

He had a bad year, there's no doubt about that, but I think the playmaking ability that I saw in the games I watched him play in 2016 is worth the high pick. And his arm is going to pop at his pro day. I think he'll do well in interviews. I don't think he's like Osweiler and Lynch, who were quarterbacks who popped in workouts and displayed some athleticism, but they were in offenses where the coaches were calling audibles and the system was shotgun-oriented. Allen has all those tools and played in an offense where his coaches are asking him to make more reads and play under center and do the things that you like to see out of future pros.

If the Broncos want a first-round quarterback, and can't get Darnold, I think Allen is the pick. I do not want Mayfield. He's a hot head and a blowhard who I don't see being a leader. I don't care about the rah-rah, run down the field, jaw at the lowly Jayhawks stuff. I'd rather see a more cerebral personality at the position.

[Hawgdriver]

I despise excuses for quarterbacks, and some of this might sound like excuses, but...

I felt like he was a playmaker in 2016, and he lost a drafted running back and a drafted center on a Mountain West offense, which is a big loss for a Group of Five team. He also lost his top three receiving targets including a 72-catch, 1,300-yard, 14 TD receiver (which is quite the year in the pros, let alone at a Group of 5 school, he's UDFA with the Bears, made the roster; And a tight end who was UDFA, playing with the Patriots, active roster).

Baker Mayfield has four- and five-star talent backing up his starters. A guy like Allen just doesn't get that at Wyoming. I think he's much less of a project than Lynch or Osweiler. During the CSU-Wyoming game this season, the announcers talked specifically about how he changed his film study to help him at the next level, and he's running the same system with the same coaches that Carson Wentz had at North Dakota State.

He had a bad year, there's no doubt about that, but I think the playmaking ability that I saw in the games I watched him play in 2016 is worth the high pick. And his arm is going to pop at his pro day. I think he'll do well in interviews. I don't think he's like Osweiler and Lynch, who were quarterbacks who popped in workouts and displayed some athleticism, but they were in offenses where the coaches were calling audibles and the system was shotgun-oriented. Allen has all those tools and played in an offense where his coaches are asking him to make more reads and play under center and do the things that you like to see out of future pros.

If the Broncos want a first-round quarterback, and can't get Darnold, I think Allen is the pick. I do not want Mayfield. He's a hot head and a blowhard who I don't see being a leader. I don't care about the rah-rah, run down the field, jaw at the lowly Jayhawks stuff. I'd rather see a more cerebral personality at the position.

Allen is also legit hard to bring down, causes dismay like Roethlisberger, you can't coach that athleticism.

[MOtorboat]

Allen is also legit hard to bring down, causes dismay like Roethlisberger, you can't coach that athleticism.

He ran for 500 yards in 2016. Just 200 this year. I can't speak to why there's a big difference, but he is a pocket quarterback with athleticism, not just an athlete. I'm not 100 percent sold on him, but I do like him much better than Mayfield. I'm not much of a fan of Rosen, either.

[Hawgdriver]

If the Broncos want a first-round quarterback, and can't get Darnold

Rosen?

[Hawgdriver]

He ran for 500 yards in 2016. Just 200 this year. I can't speak to why there's a big difference, but he is a pocket quarterback with athleticism, not just an athlete. I'm not 100 percent sold on him, but I do like him much better than Mayfield. I'm not much of a fan of Rosen, either.

I'm not sold on any of them! I saw Darnold's film from one game and fell in love but the 2017 caveat-speak has me pumping the brakes.

[MOtorboat]

I'm not sold on any of them! I saw Darnold's film from one game and fell in love but the 2017 caveat-speak has me pumping the brakes.

That's fair. How do you think the decision-makers feel!

[Hawgdriver]

That's fair. How do you think the decision-makers feel!

I'd love to read the commentary from the 1983 draft class.

[MOtorboat]

I'd love to read the commentary from the 1983 draft class.

Have you seen the 30 for 30?

[Hawgdriver]

Have you seen the 30 for 30?

It was good.

Everyone remembers Marino, not Blackledge.

[FanInAZ]

It was good.

Everyone remembers Marino, not Blackledge.

Blackledge's most notable moments of his NFL career:

1) Was drafted ahead of Marino in '83.

2) Threw 6 picks in a single game.

3) Rode in the back of a pick-up with a teammate while carrying a shotgun to intimidate the players crossing picket line during the '87 players strike.

[VonDoom]

I despise excuses for quarterbacks, and some of this might sound like excuses, but...

I felt like he was a playmaker in 2016, and he lost a drafted running back and a drafted center on a Mountain West offense, which is a big loss for a Group of Five team. He also lost his top three receiving targets including a 72-catch, 1,300-yard, 14 TD receiver (which is quite the year in the pros, let alone at a Group of 5 school, he's UDFA with the Bears, made the roster; And a tight end who was UDFA, playing with the Patriots, active roster).

Baker Mayfield has four- and five-star talent backing up his starters. A guy like Allen just doesn't get that at Wyoming. I think he's much less of a project than Lynch or Osweiler. During the CSU-Wyoming game this season, the announcers talked specifically about how he changed his film study to help him at the next level, and he's running the same system with the same coaches that Carson Wentz had at North Dakota State.

He had a bad year, there's no doubt about that, but I think the playmaking ability that I saw in the games I watched him play in 2016 is worth the high pick. And his arm is going to pop at his pro day. I think he'll do well in interviews. I don't think he's like Osweiler and Lynch, who were quarterbacks who popped in workouts and displayed some athleticism, but they were in offenses where the coaches were calling audibles and the system was shotgun-oriented. Allen has all those tools and played in an offense where his coaches are asking him to make more reads and play under center and do the things that you like to see out of future pros.

If the Broncos want a first-round quarterback, and can't get Darnold, I think Allen is the pick. I do not want Mayfield. He's a hot head and a blowhard who I don't see being a leader. I don't care about the rah-rah, run down the field, jaw at the lowly Jayhawks stuff. I'd rather see a more cerebral personality at the position.

I appreciate the well thought out response. I watched a little film on Allen and just wasn't that impressed. In the Boise State game, he overthrew a wide open receiver deep by about five yards and missed another guy who was open for a first down by throwing way behind him and low. Small sample size, I know. I just expected him to pop, considering the level of competition that he was playing. I saw a lot of him running in that game, which I imagine he'll do less of in the pros.

I don't want to turn this into an Allen vs Mayfield thing, though it seems likely that if we draft a guy early, it'll be one of those two assuming Darnold and Rosen are gone (fwiw, I have concerns about Rosen and like Darnold a great deal, if it comes to that). Personally, I like the emotion that Mayfield brings - guys want to play for him and his attitude stems from a maniacal desire to be better at his craft. We could use some energy in our milktoast offense. He also has a good arm and is accurate to all the levels of the field, and he makes play calls and audibles at the line, which again, I think would be important if we want to start a guy right away.

Speaking of which, all of this hinges on what we do in FA. If we get Cousins, this is kind of a moot point. If we get a lower level guy (Foles' name has been out there recently), then I want to draft a guy to compete in training camp and hopefully win the job. I don't see Allen as being ready to do that right now. I've been wrong plenty of times before, though, so I can't say I know what I'm talking about (though I liked Watson as my favorite QB out of the draft last year, in large part because of his "proven winner" intangible, and that seems like a plus so far ...)

[ShaneFalco]

https://media.giphy.com/media/iSxPmDWr97248/giphy.gif

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I despise excuses for quarterbacks, and some of this might sound like excuses, but...

I felt like he was a playmaker in 2016, and he lost a drafted running back and a drafted center on a Mountain West offense, which is a big loss for a Group of Five team. He also lost his top three receiving targets including a 72-catch, 1,300-yard, 14 TD receiver (which is quite the year in the pros, let alone at a Group of 5 school, he's UDFA with the Bears, made the roster; And a tight end who was UDFA, playing with the Patriots, active roster).

Baker Mayfield has four- and five-star talent backing up his starters. A guy like Allen just doesn't get that at Wyoming. I think he's much less of a project than Lynch or Osweiler. During the CSU-Wyoming game this season, the announcers talked specifically about how he changed his film study to help him at the next level, and he's running the same system with the same coaches that Carson Wentz had at North Dakota State.

He had a bad year, there's no doubt about that, but I think the playmaking ability that I saw in the games I watched him play in 2016 is worth the high pick. And his arm is going to pop at his pro day. I think he'll do well in interviews. I don't think he's like Osweiler and Lynch, who were quarterbacks who popped in workouts and displayed some athleticism, but they were in offenses where the coaches were calling audibles and the system was shotgun-oriented. Allen has all those tools and played in an offense where his coaches are asking him to make more reads and play under center and do the things that you like to see out of future pros.

If the Broncos want a first-round quarterback, and can't get Darnold, I think Allen is the pick. I do not want Mayfield. He's a hot head and a blowhard who I don't see being a leader. I don't care about the rah-rah, run down the field, jaw at the lowly Jayhawks stuff. I'd rather see a more cerebral personality at the position.

Well said-

[BroncoJoe]

I despise excuses for quarterbacks, and some of this might sound like excuses, but...

I felt like he was a playmaker in 2016, and he lost a drafted running back and a drafted center on a Mountain West offense, which is a big loss for a Group of Five team. He also lost his top three receiving targets including a 72-catch, 1,300-yard, 14 TD receiver (which is quite the year in the pros, let alone at a Group of 5 school, he's UDFA with the Bears, made the roster; And a tight end who was UDFA, playing with the Patriots, active roster).

Are you secretly Joel Klatt? He said nearly the exact same thing on 104.3 this morning. AFTER your post. Maybe he read what you had to say?

[MOtorboat]

Are you secretly Joel Klatt? He said nearly the exact same thing on 104.3 this morning. AFTER your post. Maybe he read what you had to say?

I wish I had his job.

[BroncoJoe]

I wish I had his job.

Can you imagine? That would be one great gig. He's pretty good at it too.

[MOtorboat]

Can you imagine? That would be one great gig. He's pretty good at it too.

I absolutely can imagine. :D

He’s probably the best game analyst in college right now. I’m getting tired of Gus Johnson’s schtick. It’s 2nd down on a random play in the second quarter. Stop yelling.

[silkamilkamonico]

Wyoming fan and saw all his games. Great guy, great teammate, plays hard, will put work in. Cannon for an arm. Inconsistent as hell. Still struggles with reads. Didn't have his 6'4" giant making plays for him this year. Definitely will risk turnovers/interceptions trying to make big plays. I would have reservations of him running a systematic offense where he makes reads and audibles out but he may become a guy that can make plays with his arm and also leg. I would say he's a good 3 years from ever seeing the field. I would compare him to a less dynamic Cam Newton.

[Rick]

Sounds like the guy that is already in the building.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Sounds like the guy that is already in the building.

That’s not what’s I see. I think he’s a much better football player than Lynch, which is why he’ll go in the top ten.

[silkamilkamonico]

That’s not what’s I see. I think he’s a much better football player than Lynch, which is why he’ll go in the top ten.

He will, and someone is going to be disappointed in him with the expectations that he will be ready to play sooner rather than later. He struggled significantly when Wyoming gave him the keys to the offense, and basically became a 1 read QB the entire year.

[Cugel]

The Browns have to trade the 1st pick. They already have 3 1st rounders, including the 1st pick, from last year still on their roster. They also have a 2nd round QB from last year, and the 7th pick of this year's, which is going to add up to an enormous salary cap hit on 5 very young and inexperienced players. Do they want to add the cap hit that comes from having a 5th 1st rounder/a 2nd, 2nd pick/2nd QB in last 2 drafts. Once they trade the pick, you can put this entire mock draft in the cyber-paper shredder.

Since the new CBA first round picks don't cost the moon and stars anymore. They are more affordable than the veteran FAs the Broncos signed like Talib or Demarcus Ware, etc.

In fact, for all the young players, the Browns are predicted to have $118m in cap space in 2018. There is no point in them signing FA veterans of course. What they need more than anything is impact players, not another QB project.

But, Hue Jackson just got rid of his GM by convincing Jimmy Haslim that losing all those games wasn't his fault. So, he's secure even if they lost another 15 games next year.

He's said publicly that he wants a QB, so I suppose they take another one. And suck some more.

That said, moving back, stockpiling picks and getting impact players would be the best solution for them. They won't do it though because everybody criticized them for not drafting Carson Wentz and they don't want to make that mistake again.

So, if Josh Rosen comes out we can presume he'll be the #1 overall pick for them and his career will crash and burn because that's what happens to Browns QBs.

But, the Broncos probably won't be able to trade up for that pick because the Browns won't trade it.

[Rick]

Any team with the room to buy Oz's salary for a pick, won't care about cap space a bunch of rookies take up.

[Cugel]

Wyoming fan and saw all his games. Great guy, great teammate, plays hard, will put work in. Cannon for an arm. Inconsistent as hell. Still struggles with reads. Didn't have his 6'4" giant making plays for him this year. Definitely will risk turnovers/interceptions trying to make big plays. I would have reservations of him running a systematic offense where he makes reads and audibles out but he may become a guy that can make plays with his arm and also leg. I would say he's a good 3 years from ever seeing the field. I would compare him to a less dynamic Cam Newton.

Absolutely pass. THREE years??? :eek:

Elway won't last three more years before his drafted QB can see the field! And Cam Newton's career isn't going to last too long if he doesn't learn to become more and more of a pocket passing QB. Dynamic, but short lived is not why you draft a QB in the top 10. You hope never to be back in that draft range again, so you have to get a long term answer and build around him for the next 10 years.

[Cugel]

Any team with the room to buy Oz's salary for a pick, won't care about cap space a bunch of rookies take up.

I was going to point that out but you beat me to it. Rookie contracts are salary-cap friendly. And the Browns gave up $16m they weren't going to spend anyway to get a QB they threw away, and a 2nd round pick.

[BroncoJoe]

Since the new CBA first round picks don't cost the moon and stars anymore. They are more affordable than the veteran FAs the Broncos signed like Talib or Demarcus Ware, etc.

In fact, for all the young players, the Browns are predicted to have $118m in cap space in 2018. There is no point in them signing FA veterans of course. What they need more than anything is impact players, not another QB project.

But, Hue Jackson just got rid of his GM by convincing Jimmy Haslim that losing all those games wasn't his fault. So, he's secure even if they lost another 15 games next year.

He's said publicly that he wants a QB, so I suppose they take another one. And suck some more.

That said, moving back, stockpiling picks and getting impact players would be the best solution for them. They won't do it though because everybody criticized them for not drafting Carson Wentz and they don't want to make that mistake again.

So, if Josh Rosen comes out we can presume he'll be the #1 overall pick for them and his career will crash and burn because that's what happens to Browns QBs.

But, the Broncos probably won't be able to trade up for that pick because the Browns won't trade it.

216 words saying the Browns suck and the Broncos will pick where they end up.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Absolutely pass. THREE years??? :eek:

Elway won't last three more years before his drafted QB can see the field! And Cam Newton's career isn't going to last too long if he doesn't learn to become more and more of a pocket passing QB. Dynamic, but short lived is not why you draft a QB in the top 10. You hope never to be back in that draft range again, so you have to get a long term answer and build around him for the next 10 years.

I find it amazing that you keep talking about Elway “not lasting”. Who in the hell is gonna fire John Elway? Himself? Pat Bowlen? Obviously not. Joe “I know nothing about football” Ellis? Why in the hell would Ellis fire Elway? Elway has delivered the only 3 championships to this franchise it has ever earned. Now that he’s back, Elway will leave on his own terms whenever that time comes. Make no mistake, Elway is the absolute most secure NFL executive in the league. Stop talking about him being “fired”. FFS, Shanahan got half a decade of mediocrity before he was shit canned and his name isn’t Elway.

[silkamilkamonico]

I find it amazing that you keep talking about Elway “not lasting”. Who in the hell is gonna fire John Elway? Himself? Pat Bowlen? Obviously not. Joe “I know nothing about football” Ellis? Why in the hell would Ellis fire Elway? Elway has delivered the only 3 championships to this franchise it has ever earned. Now that he’s back, Elway will leave on his own terms whenever that time comes. Make no mistake, Elway is the absolute most secure NFL executive in the league. Stop talking about him being “fired”. FFS, Shanahan got half a decade of mediocrity before he was shit canned and his name isn’t Elway.

You really think Elway will be around in 5 years if Denvers continues to have seasons like this year and last? I would put money down that the defense moving forward has already seen its best days. There is 7 starters on the defense alone that will be making $6million+ next season, which means there is going to be some big time starters who won't be with the organization, or very minimal improvements in other areas via free agency. Like what's already been pointed out hundreds of times, Elway has been finding out just how difficult it is to get quality free agents to want to come and play with Denver when Mr. Manning isn't around. The organization hasn't shown an ability in the least to be able to draft and develop players anywhere, and this coaching staff, who more than likely will be back, either doesn't have a f'n clue how to run a practice or is working on the wrong things in practice, not to mention they have shown absolutely no capability of putting the team in a situation to be successful on Sunday when it has actually mattered.

I hope Elway figures it out simply for his legacy and I'm a big fan, but every year moving forward that produces another missed playoff opportunity, is going to bring more and more skepticism. Hell, you have journalists and pundits already pointing the finger to Mr. Elway, and maybe unjustifiably so, but can you imagine in 3 or even 2 years if the Broncos still haven't made the playoffs?

[dogfish]

giraffe 3.0 starter kit. . . paaaaaass. . .

[Cugel]

216 words saying the Browns suck and the Broncos will pick where they end up.

I doubt that Elway will sit pat if he sees a QB in the top 3 that he wants. He could easily move up from anywhere about #7 or #8 to #2 or #3. And the Colts are very likely not to take a QB with their #2 overall pick. Of course the Broncos might be outbid by other QB desperate teams, but it's a lot more likely that Elway will pull off a trade.

They could probably trade a 1st and 2nd round pick in 2018 to move up to #2 for instance, that would cost about 1,000 points.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56 View Post
I find it amazing that you keep talking about Elway “not lasting”. Who in the hell is gonna fire John Elway? Himself? Pat Bowlen? Obviously not. Joe “I know nothing about football” Ellis? Why in the hell would Ellis fire Elway? Elway has delivered the only 3 championships to this franchise it has ever earned. Now that he’s back, Elway will leave on his own terms whenever that time comes. Make no mistake, Elway is the absolute most secure NFL executive in the league. Stop talking about him being “fired”. FFS, Shanahan got half a decade of mediocrity before he was shit canned and his name isn’t Elway.

Right now Elway is the most secure GM in the NFL. The comment I was referring to was that he would draft a QB in the top 10 picks of the draft who would be ready to start in 2 or 3 years. If the Broncos suck for 2 more years that would be 4 straight years without a playoff appearance. 3 straight losing seasons.

So, calm your stupidity down. Of course, nobody is going to fire Elway now, nor at the end of next year either even if the team still doesn't make the playoffs. But, the NFL is going to appoint one of the Bowlen children to control the ownership group next year, probably Beth Bowlen Wallace who is the Broncos’ director of special projects and events. She is the logical person to be confirmed by the NFL as team owner.

Probably Elway would resign rather than be fired. I don't expect any of this to happen of course. When has Elway ever suffered multiple losing seasons in a row during his entire NFL career, either as a player or as GM? It has never happened once and it would be stupid to bet now that it will.

But if it did happen that he suffered 3 consecutive losing seasons, would his job be secure? No.

Mike Shanahan never went worse than 7-9 in any of his last 9 years with the Broncos and mostly went 8-8 or 9-7 -- not 4-12 or 5-11. He had ONE season in 1999 after Elway retired, Atwater left, and TD was injured where they went 6-10. One. Not multiple.

[Cugel]

Hell, you have journalists and pundits already pointing the finger to Mr. Elway, and maybe unjustifiably so, but can you imagine in 3 or even 2 years if the Broncos still haven't made the playoffs?

The Bowlen family will not be happy if their team revenues fall substantially because the team has multiple losing seasons in a row.

I'd give that happening about a 10% chance though. Of course, I would have bet the farm against this team going 4-12 or 5-11 before the season too though. So, I could easily be wrong. But, a lot of other people will be wrong with me if any of this happens, which I am not predicting.

[FanInAZ]

Since the new CBA first round picks don't cost the moon and stars anymore. They are more affordable than the veteran FAs the Broncos signed like Talib or Demarcus Ware, etc.

In fact, for all the young players, the Browns are predicted to have $118m in cap space in 2018. There is no point in them signing FA veterans of course. What they need more than anything is impact players, not another QB project.

True, but a 1st round pick is still going to get paid far more then a 7th rounder. You also can't have a team in which no one has more then 5 years experience, so need enough room to get some quality FA veteran starters at just about every position, not just a bunch of stop gap players who are at the end of their careers.


He's said publicly that he wants a QB, so I suppose they take another one. And suck some more.

Considering that I've repeatedly said that you've got to give young players a chance to develop, especially QBs, it goes without saying that I entirely disagree with his decision. The revolving door that they've had at QB over the past 15 years is an embarrassment.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/


That said, moving back, stockpiling picks and getting impact players would be the best solution for them. They won't do it though because everybody criticized them for not drafting Carson Wentz and they don't want to make that mistake again.

If I was the Browns, I'd rather trade a few of the draft picks for proven veteran starters.


So, if Josh Rosen comes out we can presume he'll be the #1 overall pick for them and his career will crash and burn because that's what happens to Browns QBs.

But, the Broncos probably won't be able to trade up for that pick because the Browns won't trade it.

There's a number of play-off teams that will probably be looking at their QBs if they don't at least reach the SB who might be willing to trade up to the #1 spot:

Ravens: Flacco greatest success as a pro was taking way more credit then he deserved for their SB championship, parlaying that into what was then the largest contract in NFL history. If I'm a Ravens' fan, I'm wanting a QB that's as good as Flacco thinks he is.

Chiefs: Alex Smith has had 7 nice years, the last 5 with KC, after having 5 terrible years to start off his career. He's good enough to win a bunch of regular season games, but it he good enough to lead them back to the promise land for the 1st time in 48 years?

Steelers: Big Ben's best days are clearly behind him, not to mention that he's keeps getting injured.

[dogfish]

True, but a 1st round pick is still going to get paid far more then a 7th rounder. You also can't have a team in which no one has more then 5 years experience, so need enough room to get some quality FA veteran starters at just about every position, not just a bunch of stop gap players who are at the end of their careers.



Considering that I've repeatedly said that you've got to give young players a chance to develop, especially QBs, it goes without saying that I entirely disagree with his decision. The revolving door that they've had at QB over the past 15 years is an embarrassment.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/



If I was the Browns, I'd rather trade a few of the draft picks for proven veteran starters.



There's a number of play-off teams that will probably be looking at their QBs if they don't at least reach the SB who might be willing to trade up to the #1 spot:

Ravens: Flacco greatest success as a pro was taking way more credit then he deserved for their SB championship, parlaying that into what was then the largest contract in NFL history. If I'm a Ravens' fan, I'm wanting a QB that's as good as Flacco thinks he is.

Chiefs: Alex Smith has had 7 nice years, the last 5 with KC, after having 5 terrible years to start off his career. He's good enough to win a bunch of regular season games, but it he good enough to lead them back to the promise land for the 1st time in 48 years?

Steelers: Big Ben's best days are clearly behind him, not to mention that he's keeps getting injured.

the chiefs just drafted mahomes at #10 last year. . . :listen:

[FanInAZ]

the chiefs just drafted mahomes at #10 last year. . . :listen:

My bad.

[Hawgdriver]

The Bowlen family will not be happy if their team revenues fall substantially because the team has multiple losing seasons in a row.

Coke habits don't pay for themselves.

[chazoe60]

I find it unprofessional for a draft pundit to poke fun at a player.

[CoachChaz]

Quenton Nelson please

[Nomad]

Quenton Nelson please

They had a mock with Denver taking him with their 1st rd pick.

What do you think of this QB draft class, Coach?

[slim]

Isn't he a guard?

[Nomad]

Isn't he a guard?

Yes....Notre Dame. LSU plays Notre Dame in the Citrus Bowl on Jan 1st.

[slim]

Yes....Notre Dame. LSU plays Notre Dame in the Citrus Bowl on Jan 1st.

I'm not sure we should take a guard in the top half of the first round.

But maybe that is no what Coach meant?

[Nomad]

I'm not sure we should take a guard in the top half of the first round.

But maybe that is no what Coach meant?

I've seen in mocks where he's going in the top 10. He's supposed to be the highest rated offensive lineman of the draft.

[slim]

I've seen in mocks where he's going in the top 10. He's supposed to be the highest rated offensive lineman of the draft.

I see. Well, we can certainly use some help up front.

[CoachChaz]

I see. Well, we can certainly use some help up front.

He's exactly who I want. Even the Colts had 5 sacks (I believe) against us. Nelson is compared to Logan Mankins and I'd love to have that in front of my QB and RB for the next 10 years.

[CoachChaz]

They had a mock with Denver taking him with their 1st rd pick.

What do you think of this QB draft class, Coach?

Unimpressive is the word that comes to mind.

[Nomad]

Unimpressive is the word that comes to mind.

I was starting to think I was the only one.

[BroncoJoe]

Coach, post more.

tia.

[dogfish]

He's exactly who I want. Even the Colts had 5 sacks (I believe) against us. Nelson is compared to Logan Mankins and I'd love to have that in front of my QB and RB for the next 10 years.

logan mankins?? the hell with that!! if we're taking a guard top ten, i want him to project more like larry allen. . . :laugh:


seriously, you'd really want a guard over one of those monster left tackles, with our current roster construction? i get BPA, but will he really have more impact?

[Cugel]

True, but a 1st round pick is still going to get paid far more then a 7th rounder. You also can't have a team in which no one has more then 5 years experience, so need enough room to get some quality FA veteran starters at just about every position, not just a bunch of stop gap players who are at the end of their careers.



Considering that I've repeatedly said that you've got to give young players a chance to develop, especially QBs, it goes without saying that I entirely disagree with his decision. The revolving door that they've had at QB over the past 15 years is an embarrassment.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/



If I was the Browns, I'd rather trade a few of the draft picks for proven veteran starters.



There's a number of play-off teams that will probably be looking at their QBs if they don't at least reach the SB who might be willing to trade up to the #1 spot:

Ravens: Flacco greatest success as a pro was taking way more credit then he deserved for their SB championship, parlaying that into what was then the largest contract in NFL history. If I'm a Ravens' fan, I'm wanting a QB that's as good as Flacco thinks he is.

Chiefs: Alex Smith has had 7 nice years, the last 5 with KC, after having 5 terrible years to start off his career. He's good enough to win a bunch of regular season games, but it he good enough to lead them back to the promise land for the 1st time in 48 years?

Steelers: Big Ben's best days are clearly behind him, not to mention that he's keeps getting injured.

Joe Flacco had some decent seasons, but he's been inconsistent. I don't know what the Ravens will do but let's look at the contract - which is always the place to start when considering whether a team will dump a player:


Joe Flacco signed a 3 year, $66,400,000 contract with the Baltimore Ravens, including a $40,000,000 signing bonus, $44,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $22,133,333. In 2017, Flacco will earn a base salary of $6,000,000 and a signing bonus of $15,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $24,550,000 and a dead cap value of $53,300,000.

In 2018 his base salary will be $12m and the dead cap hit from trading or cutting him loose would be $28,750m. So, they will not be getting rid of him. In 2019 the cap hit would be $26.9m to get rid of him, so still no, unless he's just unbelievably horrible.

Ben Roethlisberger is leading the Steelers into the playoffs with a great chance to go to the SB. If they win out, they will be hosting the Patriots in the AFC Championship. He's made noises about retirement, but another SB win has a way of curing that itch. They will do just about anything to keep him.

Chiefs have their future franchise QB in Pat Mahomes.

There are a lot of other teams that need QBs: Giants, Browns, Bears, Bengals, Jets, Redskins if Cousins flees, etc., etc. And all those teams will have top 10 draft picks.

[Hawgdriver]

logan mankins?? the hell with that!! if we're taking a guard top ten, i want him to project more like larry allen. . . :laugh:


seriously, you'd really want a guard over one of those monster left tackles, with our current roster construction? i get BPA, but will he really have more impact?

I was on the Quenton train before C-Mac had his beasting-out party last night. Now I would just welcome it because I think this Quenton kid is an Ihop prodigy, making pancakes makin bacon pancakes...

Bacon pancakes...!

cUYSGojUuAU

[FanInAZ]

Ben Roethlisberger is leading the Steelers into the playoffs with a great chance to go to the SB. If they win out, they will be hosting the Patriots in the AFC Championship. He's made noises about retirement, but another SB win has a way of curing that itch. They will do just about anything to keep him.

Is he leading or being carried? If they don't win it all, Roethlisberger diminished abilities are likely to be a major factor.


There are a lot of other teams that need QBs: Giants, Browns, Bears, Bengals, Jets, Redskins if Cousins flees, etc., etc. And all those teams will have top 10 draft picks.

Although I don't think I stated it clearly in my 1st post in this thread, my main point was how little regard we should have for mocks that are made before the season ends. A team is dissatisfied with their QB, and is supposed to draft in the bottom 3rd of the 1st because they made the play-offs, could make a trade with the Browns that could turn everything upside down. If I was the Browns, I'd make that trade in a heart beat because it would give me the opportunity to fleece a team with depth out of a gold mine of proven veteran talent.

[Rick]

I think we should have little regard for mocks period. They are almost always laughably wrong.

[dogfish]

I think we should have little regard for mocks period. They are almost always laughably wrong.

i'm holding out for the northman mock. . .

[Rick]

I find mocks to be interesting read and get some insight on players but I wouldn't take any mocks with a grain of salt.

[Slick]

Mocks are worthless before the free agency signing period.

[Northman]

i'm holding out for the northman mock. . .

Damn right you are.

[dogfish]

Damn right you are.

it always kicks the hell out of the U29 mock. . .