Broncos ranked worst offense

[broncofaninfla]

Take it for what its worth, figured it would be an interesting share.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff

[The Glue Factory]

Looking at PF on the box scores I'd say there's six teams (possibly more depending on defensive scoring) that are worse than the Broncos. But that's probably just some silly notion that scoring points would reflect well on an offense. I'm sure there's other more important factors like yardage gained and some such stuff that are more important in ranking offensive power.

[BroncoWave]

Looking at PF on the box scores I'd say there's six teams (possibly more depending on defensive scoring) that are worse than the Broncos. But that's probably just some silly notion that scoring points would reflect well on an offense. I'm sure there's other more important factors like yardage gained and some such stuff that are more important in ranking offensive power.

Just looking at points scored isn't going to give you the whole picture. Football outsiders breaks down stuff like how much of those points were scored by the defense/special teams, or even how many of those points were set up by short fields due to defense and special teams. Or how many of those points were scored on garbage time late in games while getting blown out and the defense is playing prevent.

There's way more to it than just looking at points scored.

[BroncoWave]

It's also weighs more heavily how the team is playing more recently, to give a better picture of how teams are currently playing. That probably is why the broncos are ranked last, since 3 of their best offensive games came in the first 4 weeks.

[BroncoWave]

I've never thought to weigh recent games more heavily, but it makes a lot of sense. Definitely gives you more of a sense of how a team is currently playing.

[VonDoom]

I've never thought to weigh recent games more heavily, but it makes a lot of sense. Definitely gives you more of a sense of how a team is currently playing.

There are a bunch of different metrics on that site - you're talking about weighted DVOA, which yes, has us ranked #32 overall. The regular DVOA number reflects the entire season (we're currently #29 there, up from 32 before our win). Breaking it down, we are 32 in offense, 32 in special teams (shocking!) and 7 in defense:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff

[wayninja]

Olivo for president!!!

[The Glue Factory]

Just looking at points scored isn't going to give you the whole picture. Football outsiders breaks down stuff like how much of those points were scored by the defense/special teams, or even how many of those points were set up by short fields due to defense and special teams. Or how many of those points were scored on garbage time late in games while getting blown out and the defense is playing prevent.

There's way more to it than just looking at points scored.

I figured as much. I was being (mostly) facetious.

[Shazam!]

The Offensive Line is at the root of all the problems. It was only last week they finally made an adjustment.

They should have been doing that in October and maybe, just maybe, they could have had a few of those losses back.

[MasterShake]

The Offensive Line is at the root of all the problems. It was only last week they finally made an adjustment.

They should have been doing that in October and maybe, just maybe, they could have had a few of those losses back.

Agreed. You either need an elite QB who can overcome the offensive line, or a good offensive line that can help out the QB.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Agreed. You either need an elite QB who can overcome the offensive line, or a good offensive line that can help out the QB.

I agree 100%, problem is there aren't stats other than QB pressures given, sacks, etc. that let you grade an OLine. PFF tries, but that is pretty subjective as well.

A great QB like PFM or Brady will get rid of the ball quickly as they can read a defense very well and it keeps the OLine numbers looking pretty good, even if the actual players kinda suck. On the flip side, a QB like Dak Prescott looks way better due to their OLine and running game.

[VonDoom]

The Offensive Line is at the root of all the problems. It was only last week they finally made an adjustment.

They should have been doing that in October and maybe, just maybe, they could have had a few of those losses back.

Our QB's have been dreadful under all conditions - there was a stat on Siemian recently showing his stats from a clean pocket and they were terrible. The line is only a part of it, and again, it's been better than it was last year.

What adjustment did they make last week? I know McGovern played over an injured Leary and Stephenson started and played well, though for most of the year (and last year), he's been bad.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Our QB's have been dreadful under all conditions - there was a stat on Siemian recently showing his stats from a clean pocket and they were terrible. The line is only a part of it, and again, it's been better than it was last year.

What adjustment did they make last week? I know McGovern played over an injured Leary and Stephenson started and played well, though for most of the year (and last year), he's been bad.

When a team has a decent pass rush, Chargers, Dolphins, Chiefs, etc. he has looked terrible. I think it gets in his head that he is about to get clobbered and he panics. If we run the ball and get a lead, it's like a totally different outcome.

When any of these guys press or are getting pounded they are terrible. If they had some somewhat consistent protection they would be much better in my opinion.

[Cugel]

Agreed. You either need an elite QB who can overcome the offensive line, or a good offensive line that can help out the QB.

There is little evidence that having a good OL with a mediocre Qb can win you the SB because you run into HOF QBs Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger in the playoffs. And then you lose. Just ask the 2016 Chiefs with Alex Smith.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by VonDoom View Post
Our QB's have been dreadful under all conditions - there was a stat on Siemian recently showing his stats from a clean pocket and they were terrible. The line is only a part of it, and again, it's been better than it was last year.

What adjustment did they make last week? I know McGovern played over an injured Leary and Stephenson started and played well, though for most of the year (and last year), he's been bad.

They fired Mike McCoy and shit-canned his passing system. No more 5 and 7 step drops for an OL that can't block anybody. No more constant 3 WR sets for an offense where Trevor will never get time to throw to the #3 read in his progression anyway. They ran the ball more in the red zone.

So, by simplifying the offense to the limited skill set of the players on this roster they had more success running the ball at home against a piss-weak Colts team that is trying to get the #1 overall pick.

This is light years away from being able to compete with the Patriots in the Playoffs though. They need an elite QB.

[MOtorboat]

23 quarterbacks have had less time to throw than Siemian.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

[Cugel]

23 quarterbacks have had less time to throw than Siemian.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

Yes, but some of them are good. *Oh, snap!*

[Shazam!]

The Offensive Line is at the root of all the problems. It was only last week they finally made an adjustment.

They should have been doing that in October and maybe, just maybe, they could have had a few of those losses back.

Our QB's have been dreadful under all conditions - there was a stat on Siemian recently showing his stats from a clean pocket and they were terrible. The line is only a part of it, and again, it's been better than it was last year.

What adjustment did they make last week? I know McGovern played over an injured Leary and Stephenson started and played well, though for most of the year (and last year), he's been bad.

They went very big at times, used a lot of jumbo packages with FB and multiple TEs. I dont have the play count but the formations were bigger and a lot more than we've seen.

Have we seen any of that in the 8 losses? Did they stick to running the ball in the last 8? No.

Trevors taken a beating going back to last year. Im NOT saying he is the long term answer, but he can be productive with the right cast of characters. But, with spotty WR play, no running game, no consistent TE threat, any QB will have problems and look bad when under constant duress and getting smashed every time he drops back because the Line cannot block.

See Manning, Peyton.

This Line has been on the downward spiral before getting out of control going back to 2014.

[Cugel]

They went very big at times, used a lot of jumbo packages with FB and multiple TEs. I dont have the play count but the formations were bigger and a lot more than we've seen.

Have we seen any of that in the 8 losses? Did they stick to running the ball in the last 8? No.

Trevors taken a beating going back to last year. Im NOT saying he is the long term answer, but he can be productive with the right cast of characters. But, with spotty WR play, no running game, no consistent TE threat, any QB will have problems and look bad when under constant duress and getting smashed every time he drops back because the Line cannot block.

See Manning, Peyton.

This Line has been on the downward spiral before getting out of control going back to 2014.

Poor man's Alex Smith. And since Alex Smith will be available in FA, if they want a stiff who can get win some games in the regular season and then get beat like a gong by Tom Brady or Ben Roethlisberger in the playoffs, then why not sign him? Accept no substitutes!

As for Peyton, he was the least blitzed QB in the NFL, because he always saw it coming and would burn them so regularly, yet he was pancaked at times (the "self-sack") behind the Broncos OL. They haven't had a really good LT since Ryan Clady was healthy back in 2012.

It was Chris Clark in 2013. People complained about him, but he was better than Ty Sambrailo, Michael Schofield, Russell Okung or Garrett Bolles (as a rookie).

[wayninja]

That makes no sense. We should get Big ben or Brady instead.

[Krugan]

23 quarterbacks have had less time to throw than Siemian.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

Pretty sure that stat is the average time from snap to pass, which isnt an indication of how long until they are hit.

From the glossary on that site:

Time To Throw (TT)
Time to Throw measures the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer (sacks excluded).

I would take that differently then what you are implying, or maybe im misunderstanding your point.

[wayninja]

I don't want to put words in other peoples mouth, but taken to its conclusion, I think the point is that we don't have any good quarterbacks, regardless of the line state.

[MOtorboat]

Pretty sure that stat is the average time from snap to pass, which isnt an indication of how long until they are hit.

From the glossary on that site:

Time To Throw (TT)
Time to Throw measures the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer (sacks excluded).

I would take that differently then what you are implying, or maybe im misunderstanding your point.

I would disagree. While, yes, that’s what the stat indicates, it also shows there is ample time for him to throw as he’s clearly holding onto it longer than the majority of quarterbacks.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

23 quarterbacks have had less time to throw than Siemian.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

There’s no getting around how bad his decision making has been:
Throwing off his back foot. Running backward away from pressure, not stepping into the pocket, throwing across the grain into coverage. The list goes on. His play has been a huge disappointment this year.

[Shazam!]

I'm just saying to say its all on the QB simply isn't true. There are gaping holes with the offense and this has been on the slide for years now.

[wayninja]

I'm just saying to say its all on the QB simply isn't true. There are gaping holes with the offense and this has been on the slide for years now.

Nah, it's not all on the QB. Having said that, we need a new QB.

[Cugel]

Nah, it's not all on the QB. Having said that, we need a new QB.

Yup. And it better not be Paxton Lynch Part II either or John Elway strikes out. (Three swings and you're out).

[slim]

Three swings and you're out.

That is not how baseball works.

[Hawgdriver]

That is not how baseball works.

Remember how everyone is playing checkers but Elway is playing chess? Well everyone is playing baseball but Cugel is playing Cugelball.

[dogfish]

That is not how baseball works.

alright, somebody get MO in here!

[BigDaddyBronco]

23 quarterbacks have had less time to throw than Siemian.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

I think that "time to throw" stat is somewhat meaningless. Cross reference that with sack totals and it doesn't mean that a QB holds onto the ball to long in some cases. Case Keenum holds the ball for 6.77 seconds on average, but has only been sacked 20 times and hit 68 times. Eli Manning (bad line right) holds the ball 2.53 seconds, but has been sacked 29 times and hit 62 times. Russell Wilson holds the ball almost longer than anyone (scramble much) 3.05 seconds and has been sacked as much as Eli 30 times, but hit 99 times.

Meanwhile Bronco QB's are in middle of the pack for holding on to the ball, but in the bottom 5 for sacks (41 with 84 hits). The time to throw stat doesn't include sacks which would lower the number.

My guess is that our QB's are either having a hard time finding an open receiver, either not open or they are not seeing it, and we have a line that has a hard time protecting them. If we had a scrambler they might be able to make plays with their legs or by extending the play. Or if we had a really good pocket passer they could make plays by getting the ball out of there quickly and reading the defense better.

I just think that you can get a slightly better passer, better system, and a decent OLine and you could be performing like the Vikings. Is Case Keenum an elite QB?

[MOtorboat]

alright, somebody get MO in here!

Well, actually...

[MOtorboat]

I think that "time to throw" stat is somewhat meaningless. Cross reference that with sack totals and it doesn't mean that a QB holds onto the ball to long in some cases. Case Keenum holds the ball for 6.77 seconds on average, but has only been sacked 20 times and hit 68 times. Eli Manning (bad line right) holds the ball 2.53 seconds, but has been sacked 29 times and hit 62 times. Russell Wilson holds the ball almost longer than anyone (scramble much) 3.05 seconds and has been sacked as much as Eli 30 times, but hit 99 times.

Meanwhile Bronco QB's are in middle of the pack for holding on to the ball, but in the bottom 5 for sacks (41 with 84 hits). The time to throw stat doesn't include sacks which would lower the number.

My guess is that our QB's are either having a hard time finding an open receiver, either not open or they are not seeing it, and we have a line that has a hard time protecting them. If we had a scrambler they might be able to make plays with their legs or by extending the play. Or if we had a really good pocket passer they could make plays by getting the ball out of there quickly and reading the defense better.

I just think that you can get a slightly better passer, better system, and a decent OLine and you could be performing like the Vikings. Is Case Keenum an elite QB?

I’m not necessarily saying he holds onto it too long, but he does do that at times. I think it just illustrates that the offensive line is giving him more time than many people think. Is the offensive line good? No, it is not. But the problems are not just on the offensive line.

[MOtorboat]

In addition, Football Outsiders has the line ranked ninth in the running game and 27th in the passing game, so it’s my supposition that while the line falls in the bottom half of the league, it is in no way the worst line in the game or the worst line anyone has ever seen, which has been regularly stated by people, such as Shazam, here.

[Hawgdriver]

Trevor is the best 500k QB in the league...imo

[MOtorboat]

Trevor is the best 500k QB in the league...imo

Someone preseason tried to tell me that made him the best quarterback in the division.

:fart:

[Shazam!]

In addition, Football Outsiders has the line ranked ninth in the running game and 27th in the passing game, so it’s my supposition that while the line falls in the bottom half of the league, it is in no way the worst line in the game or the worst line anyone has ever seen, which has been regularly stated by people, such as Shazam, here.

Nah, the OLine is just fantastic! Its a strength!

smh

[MOtorboat]

Nah, the OLine is just fantastic! Its a strength!

smh

Try reading that again. Maybe a little closer this time.

[Shazam!]

Nah, the OLine is just fantastic! Its a strength!

smh

Try reading that again. Maybe a little closer this time.

Try watching the OLine again during that losing streak. Maybe a little closer this time.

[MOtorboat]

Try watching the OLine again during that losing streak. Maybe a little closer this time.

I don’t understand what the hell you’re trying to say. I watched the offensive line. It’s not good. No one said it’s “fantastic.” No one said it’s a team “strength.” What I am saying is that your hyperbole is stupid. It is neither the worst line in the league, nor the worst line I’ve ever seen. That’s absurd.

[Shazam!]

Try watching the OLine again during that losing streak. Maybe a little closer this time.

I don’t understand what the hell you’re trying to say. I watched the offensive line. It’s not good. No one said it’s “fantastic.” No one said it’s a team “strength.” What I am saying is that your hyperbole is stupid. It is neither the worst line in the league, nor the worst line I’ve ever seen. That’s absurd.

Worst *Broncos* OLine I have ever seen, and they are or near bottom in the League as a unit. But please, post more 'stats' how the Broncos are a Top 10 run offense. Yeah ok.

Could it have been playcalling by not putting them in the best positions? Absolutely. See Sunday with how they went Big and used more FB. They did things differently. Finally.

[BroncoWave]

Worst *Broncos* OLine I have ever seen, and they are or near bottom in the League as a unit. But please, post more 'stats' how the Broncos are a Top 10 run offense. Yeah ok.

Could it have been playcalling by not putting them in the best positions? Absolutely. See Sunday with how they went Big and used more FB. They did things differently. Finally.

Yep Shazam, you're right and all these objective stats ranking o-lines are wrong! Surely you watch all 32 teams every week so that you can give us a complete and unbiased account of where our o-line stacks up with the rest of the league this year, right?

[Northman]

Contrary to all the bickering going on it is possible to have poor Oline play AND have poor QB play. Denver's Oline is currently ranked 28th in the NFL, for those just joining the program that is NOT VERY GOOD. With that said, its not the only issue facing the Denver Broncos because the QB play from all 3 of our QB's is mediocre to piss poor. If we have learned anything from watching the Cowboys and Raiders the last two seasons is that you can have a great Oline but still have subpar QB play. Likewise, you can have the 30th ranked Oline in the NFL and have a guy like Aaron Rodgers who can make plays and lift his team up when they need him to. The issues with the Broncos isnt just the Oline and its not just the QB's. Both positions need to be addressed and can be addressed going into next year whether its through the draft or free agency. Anyone who is blaming just one particular part of this team simply isnt looking at the total package of what is going on out there on the football field.

Ill get off my soap box now.

[Shazam!]

Contrary to all the bickering going on it is possible to have poor Oline play AND have poor QB play. Denver's Oline is currently ranked 28th in the NFL, for those just joining the program that is NOT VERY GOOD. With that said, its not the only issue facing the Denver Broncos because the QB play from all 3 of our QB's is mediocre to piss poor. If we have learned anything from watching the Cowboys and Raiders the last two seasons is that you can have a great Oline but still have subpar QB play. Likewise, you can have the 30th ranked Oline in the NFL and have a guy like Aaron Rodgers who can make plays and lift his team up when they need him to. The issues with the Broncos isnt just the Oline and its not just the QB's. Both positions need to be addressed and can be addressed going into next year whether its through the draft or free agency. Anyone who is blaming just one particular part of this team simply isnt looking at the total package of what is going on out there on the football field.

Ill get off my soap box now.

I agree 100%.

But QB success and blocking go hand in hand. Lets see how they call the game tonight. I hope to see more big packages like we saw on Sun.

I think its stubbornness of the Coaching staff and playcalling that doesn't help mask these issues. They weren't addressed until Sunday with the difference of playcalling.

[Rick]

Anyone who takes a big money chance on Keenum next year is going to fully regret it later. He is having a good year but he is a journeyman IMO.

[Shazam!]

Anyone who takes a big money chance on Keenum next year is going to fully regret it later. He is having a good year but he is a journeyman IMO.

Foles and Bradford scare me more.

[Rick]

I don't think anyone would give a long term contract to either of those guys, I think a 2 year deal for Bradford is possible, don't see anyone giving more than 1 to Foles.

Keenum though is going to fool someone into a big contract.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Anyone who takes a big money chance on Keenum next year is going to fully regret it later. He is having a good year but he is a journeyman IMO.

Or is Kennum the type of QB that was an undrafted QB who floated around the league a few years until he got a chance to play regularly and then took off? Is he a Rich Gannon, Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselback type of late bloomer?

I don't know if he is or not, but drafting a QB isn't the only way to get a decent playoff caliber QB.

[Buff]

Or is Kennum the type of QB that was an undrafted QB who floated around the league a few years until he got a chance to play regularly and then took off? Is he a Rich Gannon, Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselback type of late bloomer?

I don't know if he is or not, but drafting a QB isn't the only way to get a decent playoff caliber QB.

I see Keenum as a slightly better version of 2016 Siemian. He's shown flashes of being an effective QB in Houston and with the Rams - and is having a career year. I don't think that's he's elevated his game to a new plane or anything like that - he's just got a good supporting cast and coaching and is making the most of it.

I'd be nervous about anointing him because he's a few bad games away from being 2017 Siemian.

[weazel]

I'm surprised they were considered good enough to be ranked

[wayninja]

We should see modest rise from the bottom after that game!

[MOtorboat]

We should see modest rise from the bottom after that game!

Well, they were already somewhere in the 20-25 range in rank, so not the bottom, despite what some say. Line looked a whole lot better with Osweiler, too.

[Timmy!]

Well, they were already somewhere in the 20-25 range in rank, so not the bottom, despite what some say. Line looked a whole lot better with Osweiler, too.

I like how he looked off the safety on the Huerman TD. Like, holy shit, a QB who doesn't just stare down his first read *cough man ranch*

[dogfish]

Well, they were already somewhere in the 20-25 range in rank, so not the bottom, despite what some say. Line looked a whole lot better with Osweiler, too.

you hush-- the worst line ever did not look good!

[MOtorboat]

you hush-- the worst line ever did not look good!

:coffee:

[dogfish]

:coffee:

ever!

[MOtorboat]

ever!

Evah, evah? Evah, evah.

[Timmy!]

you hush-- the worst line ever did not look good!

EEEEEVVVVVVEEEERRRRrrwh181272llo°

[Hawgdriver]

EEEEEVVVVVVEEEERRRRrrwh181272llo°

Nominated for best use of alt-248

[Shazam!]

Joseph and Musgrave finally saw what it took 12+ games to figure out. I wish they had that dedication to the run in the last two games over the losses. It isn't just a talent issue on the OLine so much as it is stubbornness of the Coaching staff. If they played this way vs KC LA and Oakland they could have pulled those games out at least.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Joseph and Musgrave finally saw what it took 12+ games to figure out. I wish they had that dedication to the run in the last two games over the losses. It isn't just a talent issue on the OLine so much as it is stubbornness of the Coaching staff. If they played this way vs KC LA and Oakland they could have pulled those games out at least.

Don’t exclude the Giants and the Bills; two teams we outplayed if not for the turnovers

[NightTerror218]

Don’t exclude the Giants and the Bills; two teams we outplayed if not for the turnovers

Saw a stat that our defense is ranked 1 or 2 in ever category but 2. We are 3rd in rushing and 24th in points allowed. Interesting the TO arw the key to that 24th ranking and short fields.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Saw a stat that our defense is ranked 1 or 2 in ever category but 2. We are 3rd in rushing and 24th in points allowed. Interesting the TO arw the key to that 24th ranking and short fields.

Yep, I’m also curious as to where the defense is in creating turnovers. They don’t seem to be doing it as much this year, which might have something to do with getting behind early in so many games

[NightTerror218]

Yep, I’m also curious as to where the defense is in creating turnovers. They don’t seem to be doing it as much this year, which might have something to do with getting behind early in so many games

We are 28th in takeaways and 31 in giveaways

[Shazam!]

The D isn't done. Give the Defense a fair game instead of constantly being on the Field amd put in constant bad situations because the offense is inept, its been so bad. Its a shame they made these adjustments at the very end bevause so many winnable games were blown in a mediocre AFCW.

[BroncoJoe]

The D isn't done. Give the Defense a fair game instead of constantly being on the Field amd put in constant bad situations because the offense is inept, its been so bad. Its a shame they made these adjustments at the very end bevause so many winnable games were blown in a mediocre AFCW.

Musgrave > McCoy

Plus, he's a Colorado boy.

[Shazam!]

The D isn't done. Give the Defense a fair game instead of constantly being on the Field amd put in constant bad situations because the offense is inept, its been so bad. Its a shame they made these adjustments at the very end bevause so many winnable games were blown in a mediocre AFCW.

Musgrave > McCoy

Plus, he's a Colorado boy.

Musgrave finally may have eclipsed this year and has a shot if returning i would th ink.

[Rick]

Yes, Musgrave may be coaching himself into the job.

[The Glue Factory]

Yes, Musgrave may be coaching himself into the job.

We can only hope and pray that happens!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

We are 28th in takeaways and 31 in giveaways
28th in takeaways is horrid with the defense we have.

[slim]

We can only hope and pray that happens!

Yeah. Two wins and he is now the greatest coach ever!!

[The Glue Factory]

Yeah. Two wins and he is now the greatest coach ever!!

I didn't mean it that way. Meant it more along the lines of we have no say in the matter but would like to see Musgrave remain OC for a while.

[Cugel]

Saw a stat that our defense is ranked 1 or 2 in ever category but 2. We are 3rd in rushing and 24th in points allowed. Interesting the TO arw the key to that 24th ranking and short fields.

I think we can safely throw out all the defensive stats this year. The defense you saw last night shutting out the Colts was the real Broncos defense. But, it's hard to put forth maximum effort game in and game out when you're getting blown out in the first quarter and are down 7-0 before the defense even takes the field. You could see the air leak out of the defense in these situations.

Last night they perked up the minute the offense started making plays. Suddenly there was enthusiasm and they were making stops and generating turnovers.

Just another sign of the lost season. IF the offense had been even mediocre with a mediocre QB like Brock Osweiler was last night, then they'd be cruising to the playoffs right now.

Because this AFC West isn't stocked with powerhouse teams. The Chargers are the best of them, which says a lot since they are one and done in the playoffs when they meet up with a REAL football team like the Patriots or the Steelers. Those two teams are elite, and the rest are chumps. Just fodder to fill out the playoff bracket before the inevitable Steelers Patriots showdown in the AFC Championship.

[Cugel]

Yeah. Two wins and he is now the greatest coach ever!!

Well, he's a long way from being a GOOD Coach, forget "GOAT". But, he's keeping his job for one more year now that they won 2 in a row. Hopefully like the young players on this roster, he will learn from his mistakes and do better next year.

Because another losing season and VJs' job really will be in jeopardy.

[dogfish]

Yes, Musgrave may be coaching himself into the job.

i'd say he already has. . . he was the other guy vance interviewed for the position previously, he's already on hand, and he's an accomplished pro. . . not like they're going to do any better, and he knows our personnel. . . besides, replacing him in the off-season just creates more upheaval for a unit that's struggling badly enough to establish an identity. . . IMO, it's pretty much a no-brainer at this point that he'll be back as the OC next year. . .

[Shazam!]

We can only hope and pray that happens!

Yeah. Two wins and he is now the greatest coach ever!!

I certainly wasn't eluding to that. He finally made some adjustments and helped put players in better situations. The adherance to the run game, even when it wasn't working as well as we would hope (CJ? conversation thread for that) and going big, getting rid of what wasn't working instead of forcing it down the throats of your players who cannot execute it alone.

[Hawgdriver]

i'd say he already has. . . he was the other guy vance interviewed for the position previously, he's already on hand, and he's an accomplished pro. . . not like they're going to do any better, and he knows our personnel. . . besides, replacing him in the off-season just creates more upheaval for a unit that's struggling badly enough to establish an identity. . . IMO, it's pretty much a no-brainer at this point that he'll be back as the OC next year. . .

Next year will be telling.

[NightTerror218]

Keep seeing talks of McGovern as a hidden gem and should be new starter. With his emergence why has max garcia been in starting line up so,long,

[dogfish]

Keep seeing talks of McGovern as a hidden gem and should be new starter. With his emergence why has max garcia been in starting line up so,long,

i'll take "because our coaches suck nuts" for 500, please, alex. . .

[Shazam!]

Keep seeing talks of McGovern as a hidden gem and should be new starter. With his emergence why has max garcia been in starting line up so,long,

He looked exclellent vs Indy blew open holes. Why didn't they see him earlier??

[HORSEPOWER 56]

28th in takeaways is horrid with the defense we have.

Everyone understands how that happened, right? It was 100% Woods. He was tasked at the beginning of the year to fix the run defense from last year and given Domata Peko as the only real change to personnel and had Ward taken away as the “enforcer” run stuffing safety.

To stop being gashed by the run, the defense Woods plays a read-and-react zone where everyone is looking at the backfield to see the run. Our current defense was built by Elway and coached by Wade to be a man to man, attacking, blitzing defense designed to force turnovers. When all we ever do is rush 4 and drop 7 in zone, it’s easy for opponents to know where the rush is coming from, therefore chip the guys like Von and beat zone coverage. Without pressure, turnovers are hard to come by. Von could be, and probably is, the best pass rusher on the team, but unless we scheme to get him 1 on 1 like Wade did, not even he can get pressure.

The Jets game was the first this season since we were up big vs the Cowboys where we returned to our roots and played man-press and blitzed and played our game instead of read and try to react to the other teams’ dictated offense. Wanna know why the “no fly” has been “go fly”? Because they aren’t being allowed to do what they do best and play man. They’ve been playing zone and that allows the other team to expose our matchup problems vs backs and TEs.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Everyone understands how that happened, right? It was 100% Woods. He was tasked at the beginning of the year to fix the run defense from last year and given Domata Peko as the only real change to personnel and had Ward taken away as the “enforcer” run stuffing safety.

To stop being gashed by the run, the defense Woods plays a read-and-react zone where everyone is looking at the backfield to see the run. Our current defense was built by Elway and coached by Wade to be a man to man, attacking, blitzing defense designed to force turnovers. When all we ever do is rush 4 and drop 7 in zone, it’s easy for opponents to know where the rush is coming from, therefore chip the guys like Von and beat zone coverage. Without pressure, turnovers are hard to come by. Von could be, and probably is, the best pass rusher on the team, but unless we scheme to get him 1 on 1 like Wade did, not even he can get pressure.

The Jets game was the first this season since we were up big vs the Cowboys where we returned to our roots and played man-press and blitzed and played our game instead of read and try to react to the other teams’ dictated offense. Wanna know why the “no fly” has been “go fly”? Because they aren’t being allowed to do what they do best and play man. They’ve been playing zone and that allows the other team to expose our matchup problems vs backs and TEs.

Yeah, I saw it. I was really frustrated with the four man rushes

[VonDoom]

He looked exclellent vs Indy blew open holes. Why didn't they see him earlier??

I believe Joseph said something this week like, “we had an entire preseason and Garcia was our best guard” (I assume he means besides Leary). In any case, that looks again like a missed evaluation

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I believe Joseph said something this week like, “we had an entire preseason and Garcia was our best guard” (I assume he means besides Leary). In any case, that looks again like a missed evaluation
I’m a little worried he believes some of the things he says.

[Hawgdriver]

Don't forget everyone else on both sides of the ball has the injuries and beat up bodies that go with playing 13 weeks of NFL football. Could be that when Garcia was fresh he was outbeasting C-Mac. Or could be missed eval.

[Shazam!]

He looked exclellent vs Indy blew open holes. Why didn't they see him earlier??

I believe Joseph said something this week like, “we had an entire preseason and Garcia was our best guard” (I assume he means besides Leary). In any case, that looks again like a missed evaluation

If McGovern IS starting material, the Broncos are close to having a decent OLine.

I believe it is mismanagement of the Coaching staff to have the offense in such bad shape revolving around a scheme that didn't work and the best players on the bench.

It hasn't been just one thing, its multiple problems with this Staff. Hopefully this Season translates to lessons learned for next Season and thw new QB has an opportunity to be productive.

[Cugel]

Keep seeing talks of McGovern as a hidden gem and should be new starter. With his emergence why has max garcia been in starting line up so,long,

Here's an even more perplexing question - why did they move Ron Leary from LG, where he was a pro-bowler, to RG just in order to accommodate Max Garcia starting at LG where he was only a part time starter?

They really put a lot of faith in Max Garcia who was a marginal player at best. Not surprisingly they are now looking to upgrade.

[Cugel]

If McGovern IS starting material, the Broncos are close to having a decent OLine.

I believe it is mismanagement of the Coaching staff to have the offense in such bad shape revolving around a scheme that didn't work and the best players on the bench.

It hasn't been just one thing, its multiple problems with this Staff. Hopefully this Season translates to lessons learned for next Season and thw new QB has an opportunity to be productive.

Certainly, they learned midseason that the McCoy offense doesn't work because you need your inexperienced QBs to deal with max pressure blitzes on 5 and 7 step drops with 3 WRs and your inexperienced/crappy OL in single protection against guys like Melvin Ingram and Joey Bosa, and Kalil Mack. THey fired McCoy and shit-canned his offensive scheme in favor of something that inexperienced backup quality QBs can run with a piss-weak OL.

McCoy never learned he didn't have Philip Rivers here. So, they can learn and adapt because they eventually fired him. It just took them too long.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by VonDoom View Post
I believe Joseph said something this week like, “we had an entire preseason and Garcia was our best guard” (I assume he means besides Leary). In any case, that looks again like a missed evaluation

I don't know why this took them 14 weeks to discover. Dude was the best G in the preseason. OK. So, he gets the start week 1. What about weeks 2 through 14 where he sucked? What about that VJ?

[Hawgdriver]

Here's an even more perplexing question - why did they move Ron Leary from LG, where he was a pro-bowler, to RG

Cugel, not sure you know, but Leary has never been to a pro bowl. Where did the Leary pro-bowler talk come from?

[BroncoJoe]

Cugel, not sure you know, but Leary has never been to a pro bowl. Where did the Leary pro-bowler talk come from?

Those voices in his head.