Taylor to handle PR duties the rest of the season

[Northman]

Jordon will handle it from here on out. But one has to wonder how the rest of the planet knew that McKenzie wasnt ready weeks ago but somehow the brainchild of VJ continued to put him out there knowing that fact?

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-nextdaynotebook/Next-Day-Notebook-Broncos-go-back-to-Jordan-Taylor-on-punt-returns/e0967c72-ab48-47b1-bd7e-fea5add04c48


After a fourth-quarter fumble Sunday that led to a safety, Head Coach Vance Joseph announced that McKenzie will be relieved of punt-return responsibilities. The fumble was McKenzie's sixth of the regular season."Right now, we can't afford to chance the ball being on the ground, so we're going to sit him back down again and let Jordan Taylorhttp://www.denverbroncos.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster/jordan-taylor/86e98abc-f9fe-4918-81f6-a0aba45ec096/) do it the rest of the season," Joseph said.
Taylor handled most of the work on punt returns during the previous two games when McKenzie was inactive.
Joseph said he re-inserted McKenzie on Sunday to "find a way to give the team a spark."

[sneakers]

I hope McKenzie can forget about this season and works hard in the offseason, because I think he can be a good player in the league....nice and quick.

[Rick]

Wait wait wait, I turned that shit show off some point on Sunday. You mean he actually put Mckenzie back in!?!? And he of course fumbled again?!?!

[Tbolt]

I hope he paid attention in class, because he is going to need to use his degree once cut.

[Davii]

Jordon will handle it from here on out. But one has to wonder how the rest of the planet knew that McKenzie wasnt ready weeks ago but somehow the brainchild of VJ continued to put him out there knowing that fact?

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-nextdaynotebook/Next-Day-Notebook-Broncos-go-back-to-Jordan-Taylor-on-punt-returns/e0967c72-ab48-47b1-bd7e-fea5add04c48

There's the rub, DID he "know that fact"?

I mean, you and I knew that fact, so it's hard to fathom that our HC couldn't see it coming when we did... But there it is... It's inexcusable. Dare I say, puzzling...

[Ziggy]

Good call Vance. If you’d have made this move 8 games earlier, you might have fooled someone into thinking that your IQ was bigger than your shoe size.

[Rick]

If he put McKenzie back in there after all of those fumbles, just to watch him fumble again...that alone should have been cause to fire him after the game. WTF?

If you wanted a spark, how about trying Langley back there? He has speed.

[Mike]

I listened to a part of an interview with Joseph yesterday that was pretty irritating and made me realize how incompetent he really is. When asked by the media why McKenzie was put back in, Joseph responded because he is our punt returner...that's why we drafted him...we sat him for a couple of weeks.

Yeah...**** that guy. I can't understand why Elway hasn't fired him yet. Only thing remotely plausible is that he wants to tank the season and knows that keeping him as HC is the best way to do that.

[Davii]

I listened to a part of an interview with Joseph yesterday that was pretty irritating and made me realize how incompetent he really is. When asked by the media why McKenzie was put back in, Joseph responded because he is our punt returner...that's why we drafted him...we sat him for a couple of weeks.

Yeah...**** that guy. I can't understand why Elway hasn't fired him yet. Only thing remotely plausible is that he wants to tank the season and knows that keeping him as HC is the best way to do that.

Maybe Elway hasn't fired him because, "He's our HC, that's what we hired him to do. I told him it's unacceptable, but he's our HC."

[Mike]

Maybe Elway hasn't fired him because, "He's our HC, that's what we hired him to do. I told him it's unacceptable, but he's our HC."

We hired him to lose games...to present himself as entirely incompetent on a weekly basis...to not know that his ST had a delay of game penalty (how the **** do you get a delay of game on a kickoff?)...to keep running out players that cannot do the job...to not know when to use timeouts...to have no gameplan...to look puzzled on the sidelines...to not know when to try an on-side kick...to coach the players to keep making the same mistakes...to support assistants who can't coach their teams and allow them to keep making the same mistakes consequences be damned.....

We are getting blown out of games by bad teams and show no signs of competitiveness or fire or even competency.

No, there is gross incompetence that should not be tolerated and should result in firing...and damn it Vance Joseph is the picture of it.

[Freyaka]

Jordon will handle it from here on out. But one has to wonder how the rest of the planet knew that McKenzie wasnt ready weeks ago but somehow the brainchild of VJ continued to put him out there knowing that fact?

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-nextdaynotebook/Next-Day-Notebook-Broncos-go-back-to-Jordan-Taylor-on-punt-returns/e0967c72-ab48-47b1-bd7e-fea5add04c48

I'll take "what are things that should have happened in week 5" for $500 Alex

[Davii]

We hired him to lose games...to present himself as entirely incompetent on a weekly basis...to not know that his ST had a delay of game penalty (how the **** do you get a delay of game on a kickoff?)...to keep running out players that cannot do the job...to not know when to use timeouts...to have no gameplan...to look puzzled on the sidelines...to not know when to try an on-side kick...to coach the players to keep making the same mistakes...to support assistants who can't coach their teams and allow them to keep making the same mistakes consequences be damned.....

We are getting blown out of games by bad teams and show no signs of competitiveness or fire or even competency.

No, there is gross incompetence that should not be tolerated and should result in firing...and damn it Vance Joseph is the picture of it.

I agree. If VJ doesn't lose his job at the end of this season (I would hope sooner, but I get why Elway will give him the season) then I think that incompetence finger might have to point higher than VJ.

[LawDog]

Wait wait wait, I turned that shit show off some point on Sunday. You mean he actually put Mckenzie back in!?!? And he of course fumbled again?!?!

After a couple of fair catches, and a couple occasions of letting the ball go when inside the 10, he chose to catch it at the 5 - not fair catch mind you - and then proceeded to try and run around by not actually going forward but sideways and then backward and fumbled it into the endzone where he recovered his own fumble to save the safety and not give up a TD. It was elite decision making on the part of MacKenzie, Olivo, and VJ...

[ShaneFalco]

whats even worse is some posters on here acting like he should get a 2nd year

[NightTrainLayne]

"Right now we can't afford" to have him returning punts.

"Right now".

smdh

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

The frustration I have with McKenzie may be a coaching issue. He’s looking to run before he secures the ball, which is basic fundamentals.

[wayninja]

I love McKenzie. He's literally the most entertaining thing about the Broncos right now. We absolutely can, and should afford him to execute PR duty.

[Rick]

Should see what Holiday is doing these days. At-least he sprinkled some TDs in-between his fumbles.

[chazoe60]

Not Punt Returner, Public Relations. That's right, sunshine is going to be doing all the press conferences now. He's our new minister of information.

[dogfish]

Joseph said he re-inserted McKenzie on Sunday to "find a way to give the team a spark."

this makes sense! mckenzie almost always finds a way to give the other team a major spark. . .

#EmbraceTheTank

11531

[Davii]

whats even worse is some posters on here acting like he should get a 2nd year

McKenzie? I would give him a second year, but he's going to have to show a ridiculous amount of improvement to ever see the field again.

[Rick]

My guess is he is talking about VJ.

[Freyaka]

whats even worse is some posters on here acting like he should get a 2nd year

Well, if he can get his fumblitus under control, he's got the explosiveness you want in a punt returner. He's gotta get his head straight. There is no reason at all to not at least bring him back in the preseason and see if he can turn the corner.

[Dreadnought]

McKenzie? I would give him a second year, but he's going to have to show a ridiculous amount of improvement to ever see the field again.

I never want to see this bum suit up in a Broncos uni again. Not ever. He has joined my own personal list of all-time most hated Broncos

[chazoe60]

I never want to see this bum suit up in a Broncos uni again. Not ever. He has joined my own personal list of all-time most hated Broncos

I heard Plummer and Kennison were coming out of retirement so they could team up with McKenzie next season. What a potent offense that would be

[Freyaka]

I never want to see this bum suit up in a Broncos uni again. Not ever. He has joined my own personal list of all-time most hated Broncos

He's a rookie with a terrible special teams coach. I understand why he has such a strong amount of ire from you, I'm no fan of him either, but he's still a rookie. There is still room for him to grow so you don't just write him off that quickly IMO.

I get where you are coming from, but...

[chazoe60]

He's a rookie with a terrible special teams coach. I understand why he has such a strong amount of ire from you, I'm no fan of him either, but he's still a rookie. There is still room for him to grow so you don't just write him off that quickly IMO.

I get where you are coming from, but...

It's not coaching that makes him fumble.

[dogfish]

I never want to see this bum suit up in a Broncos uni again. Not ever. He has joined my own personal list of all-time most hated Broncos

:lol::lol:

see, this is why we need you around, dread. . . no millennial, poosyfooting, everybody gets a trophy for trying BS-- just the hard truth!

[Dreadnought]

I heard Plummer and Kennison were coming out of retirement so they could team up with McKenzie next season. What a potent offense that would be

Throw in Travis Henry, Nate Webster, Billy Jenkins, Roc Alexander on that roster...

[dogfish]

Throw in Travis Henry, Nate Webster, Billy Jenkins, Roc Alexander on that roster...

marquand manuel and george foster want in!

[chazoe60]

marquand manuel and george foster want in!

Who was the big dipshit DL we had that beat people up at the ihop?

[dogfish]

Who was the big dipshit DL we had that beat people up at the ihop?

darryll gardener. . . i usually just refer to him as "ihop," though. . .

[LawDog]

He's a rookie with a terrible special teams coach. I understand why he has such a strong amount of ire from you, I'm no fan of him either, but he's still a rookie. There is still room for him to grow so you don't just write him off that quickly IMO.

I get where you are coming from, but...

Rock bottom with nowhere to go but up is not the same as room to grow. He must be gone.

[Freyaka]

It's not coaching that makes him fumble.

He had zero fumbles on 59 returns in college...That's pretty telling that the coaching is playing a part. I'm not blaming them, but the special teams is clearly lacking football fundamentals, that comes from good coaching which we clearly do not have.

He had a grand total of 126 touches (WR,KR,PR) without one fumble. Now on 54 NFL touches he has 6 fumbles...something doesn't compute in this equation... I'm not saying the coaching is to blame, I'm saying he's not getting proper coaching and perhaps with proper coaching he can get back to what he was in college. If he had fumbled in college, the fumbles now wouldn't seem so out of place.

[BroncoWave]

:lol::lol:

see, this is why we need you around, dread. . . no millennial, poosyfooting, everybody gets a trophy for trying BS-- just the hard truth!

No, it was just a bad post. It would be stupid to give up on him this early in his career. Definitely don't let him return any more punts this year, but maybe see if he can improve over the off-season before we start deciding he should never see the field again.

[Freyaka]

No, it was just a bad post. It would be stupid to give up on him this early in his career. Definitely don't let him return any more punts this year, but maybe see if he can improve over the off-season before we start deciding he should never see the field again.

Yea, despite personal feelings some have due to watching him fumble away 6 times...He's still on the roster next year, he's cheap and there is no reason to not see if he can get it together.

I seem to remember a specific running back that had fumblitus as well and barely made the team, one hit in preseason turned his career around. Put him on the scout team, give him some practice reps, and let him come back in 2018 during camp and preseason. If he can come back with his head on straight and show improvement, it's a win for the team. If not, well, it's not hurting us a lot to cut him loose and we're no worse for the wear in the long run. But you can't just give up on a player after one bad offseason.

[BigDaddyBronco]

marquand manuel and george foster want in!

Anyone who has played RT since 2014.

[BigDaddyBronco]

3 ******* words

Michael Dean Perry.... move your ******* ass

[MOtorboat]

There is no way Jake Plummer belongs on that list. Good grief.

[BroncoJoe]

There is no way Jake Plummer belongs on that list. Good grief.

I despise the Jake hate. Hate the haters!

Except Dread, of course. We've mutually agreed this will not infringe upon our friendship.

[chazoe60]

There is no way Jake Plummer belongs on that list. Good grief.

I don't think so either, but I knew Dread would like it. Dread is not a big fan of Plummer, I actually think of him as the 3rd best QB in Broncos history.

[ShaneFalco]

McKenzie? I would give him a second year, but he's going to have to show a ridiculous amount of improvement to ever see the field again.

VJ.

[Dreadnought]

I don't think so either, but I knew Dread would like it. Dread is not a big fan of Plummer, I actually think of him as the 3rd best QB in Broncos history.

Top Broncos QB's

1. Elway
2. PMFM
3. Craig Morton
4. Charley Johnson
5. Maybe Brian Griese, maybe Steve deBerg, maybe even Cutler. Its slim pickin's after Charley Johnson
...
78. Jake Plummer

[BroncoJoe]

Top Broncos QB's

1. Elway
2. PMFM
3. Craig Morton
4. Charley Johnson
5. Maybe Brian Griese, maybe Steve deBerg, maybe even Cutler. Its slim pickin's after Charley Johnson
...
78. Jake Plummer

:flute::tape::hurt:

[dogfish]

:lol::lol:

[Northman]

Top Broncos QB's

1. Elway
2. PMFM
3. Craig Morton
4. Charley Johnson
5. Maybe Brian Griese, maybe Steve deBerg, maybe even Cutler. Its slim pickin's after Charley Johnson
...
78. Jake Plummer

Wow, even i didnt hate Plummage that bad. :lol:

[Northman]

Throw in Travis Henry, Nate Webster, Billy Jenkins, Roc Alexander on that roster...


marquand manuel and george foster want in!

Dale Carter....nuff said.

Also Maurice Clarett.

[MOtorboat]

I don't think so either, but I knew Dread would like it. Dread is not a big fan of Plummer, I actually think of him as the 3rd best QB in Broncos history.

You think of him as the third-best quarterback in team history because he is.

:wave:

[Dreadnought]

Dale Carter....nuff said.

Also Maurice Clarett.

Oh Gawd yes. As for my feelings on Plummer, I know I'm in a very small minority. I'm OK with that

[wayninja]

I wouldn't be in the minority on my QB views if all the people who agreed with me hadn't left around March of 2012...

[dogfish]

I wouldn't be in the minority on my QB views if all the people who agreed with me hadn't left around March of 2012...

ahh yes, the infamous "Exodus of Three". . . :heh:


dread, i got yer back!

[Freyaka]

Wow, even i didnt hate Plummage that bad. :lol:

I put him solidly at #3 behind Elway and Manning. I hated him at the time, but I recognized after he was gone that I was FAR to hard on him, and by the time we had Tebow I actually missed the Snake.

[Bronco4ever]

I'm glad they made the change at punt returner before something bad happened.

[BroncoWave]

How in the world could one hate Plummer? It just shows how spoiled Bronco fans are by guys like Elway and Manning to hate Plummer. If you wouldn't kill to have 2005 Plummer as our QB right now, then I don't know what to tell you.

[BroncoWave]

I'm glad they made the change at punt returner before something bad happened.

I know right? Would have been a real shame!

[Bronco4ever]

I enjoyed the Jake Plummer era. He could be the most frustrating player to watch sometimes, but he had more good games than bad. Those bootlegs he ran were a thing of beauty.

[Cugel]

Didn't Belichick state publicly in his presser after the Broncos game that "We knew McKenzie dropped it on the ground before" so they went after him on punt returns. Basically, the entire league decided about game 6 that McKenzie is a fumbler and that if we hit him he will drop the ball on the ground. They apparently wanted him to be a slot WR but that did not happen.

Belichick was actually trolling the Broncos by commenting on that. He was basically saying "they put this guy out there again when they knew he was a fumbler? We took advantage of that."

In fact, the coaches badly estimated the entire team in terms of personnel. They thought that either McKenzie or Carlos Henderson would be their slot WR, but neither of them were any good. No backup plan.

They HOPED Menelik Watson would stay healthy and be a bargain basement RT replacement for Donald Stephenson, last year's bust RT who mysteriously stayed on the roster. That didn't happen.

They hoped that one of the TEs would develop, Derby probably, but maybe Virgil Green or Jeff Heurman whom they kept saying "we like him." Derby sucked so bad they cut him mid season. Heurman has shown nothing whatever, and Green like every other year when the promise big things from him is just a blocker.

At position after position, they tried to patch things together with band-aids and castoffs, has-beens and never-weres. None of their plans has paid off. At least on offense.

This team is just lacking in talent on offense, and they cobbled together a patchwork of players to make a fit.

And then there has been the incomprehensible coaching decisions on game day. Let's not bother examining those. You don't go 4-12 or 3-13 because you have good coaching.

With this roster they should win at least 6 games with any coach in the league. That they haven't is proof that these coaches are about 2-3 games worse than any other coach with a job.

[Broncoknight30]

If he put McKenzie back in there after all of those fumbles, just to watch him fumble again...that alone should have been cause to fire him after the game. WTF?

If you wanted a spark, how about trying Langley back there? He has speed.

I am sure someone has responded, it was worse than that. He did something dumber than he had done the entire season. Fumbling, was the culmination.

[Broncoknight30]

I enjoyed the Jake Plummer era. He could be the most frustrating player to watch sometimes, but he had more good games than bad. Those bootlegs he ran were a thing of beauty.

Never really knew why Broncos fans were so down on him. He was effective for the offense they ran. He was actually quite good. I know fans blame him for that AFCCG, well that was ALL on the defense.

Roethlisberger converted six 3rd and longs (3rd and 8 or longer.) 3 of those conversions resulted in 17 points, and some WR for the Steelers named Cedric Wilson was a big gigantic hero.

The way the Broncos were designed that year, they could close a game out when they were in the lead. Essentially, they had two 1000 yard rushers.

Let us not forget the Steelers had the number ONE defense in the NFL and playing from behind against that defense was next to impossible. He didn't have a great game, but he was getting beat up once the Steelers pinned their ears back with a lead.

The biggest mistake Shanahan made was...one never switching to a 3-4 when they could not get past Peyton Manning. It was clear that Manning's kryptonite the 3-4. I believe out of all of his one and dones, all of them were against a 3-4 defense and Shanahan thought drafting shutdown corners was the way to defeat him. It wasn't. Never was.

His next, and actually his biggest mistake was trading up to get Jay poopy pants Cutler. I was really hoping they would draft Ngata that year. Drafting Cutler was the downfall of Shanahan and that was him basically giving up on Plummer.


Now, watch these in light of the shit we are seeing on this team this year. Plummer was very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl6QmrTeGE0

[Broncoknight30]

Didn't Belichick state publicly in his presser after the Broncos game that "We knew McKenzie dropped it on the ground before" so they went after him on punt returns. Basically, the entire league decided about game 6 that McKenzie is a fumbler and that if we hit him he will drop the ball on the ground. They apparently wanted him to be a slot WR but that did not happen.

Belichick was actually trolling the Broncos by commenting on that. He was basically saying "they put this guy out there again when they knew he was a fumbler? We took advantage of that."

In fact, the coaches badly estimated the entire team in terms of personnel. They thought that either McKenzie or Carlos Henderson would be their slot WR, but neither of them were any good. No backup plan.

They HOPED Menelik Watson would stay healthy and be a bargain basement RT replacement for Donald Stephenson, last year's bust RT who mysteriously stayed on the roster. That didn't happen.

They hoped that one of the TEs would develop, Derby probably, but maybe Virgil Green or Jeff Heurman whom they kept saying "we like him." Derby sucked so bad they cut him mid season. Heurman has shown nothing whatever, and Green like every other year when the promise big things from him is just a blocker.

At position after position, they tried to patch things together with band-aids and castoffs, has-beens and never-weres. None of their plans has paid off. At least on offense.

This team is just lacking in talent on offense, and they cobbled together a patchwork of players to make a fit.

And then there has been the incomprehensible coaching decisions on game day. Let's not bother examining those. You don't go 4-12 or 3-13 because you have good coaching.

With this roster they should win at least 6 games with any coach in the league. That they haven't is proof that these coaches are about 2-3 games worse than any other coach with a job.

All you need to know about that is the Patriots returner that fumbled against the Broncos in 2015 was cut the next day. This damn coach keeps shoving the idiot back out there.

[Cugel]

All you need to know about that is the Patriots returner that fumbled against the Broncos in 2015 was cut the next day. This damn coach keeps shoving the idiot back out there.

I think Belichick was thinking that same thing. Well, they are done shoving the fumbler out there but the fact that they let him fumble 6 times before they made the change is an indictment of the coaching staff.

My concern is that if the coaching doesn't improve next year the Broncos could be in free-fall for a long time.

The frustrating thing is that 7-9 actually might win the AFC West this year. The Chiefs are in free-fall. The Raiders have fallen back after their 12-4 season. Nobody is trying to win the division right now. The Chargers look to be the best team but they don't have a winning record and there's no guarantee they will this year.

And yet the Broncos are totally out of it. :mad:

[Broncoknight30]

I think Belichick was thinking that same thing. Well, they are done shoving the fumbler out there but the fact that they let him fumble 6 times before they made the change is an indictment of the coaching staff.

My concern is that if the coaching doesn't improve next year the Broncos could be in free-fall for a long time.

The frustrating thing is that 7-9 actually might win the AFC West this year. The Chiefs are in free-fall. The Raiders have fallen back after their 12-4 season. Nobody is trying to win the division right now. The Chargers look to be the best team but they don't have a winning record and there's no guarantee they will this year.

And yet the Broncos are totally out of it. :mad:

Right now the.Broncos are the worst team in the NFL. Really not even close.

[Cugel]

Never really knew why Broncos fans were so down on him. He was effective for the offense they ran. He was actually quite good. I know fans blame him for that AFCCG, well that was ALL on the defense.

It's all a long time ago in a land far away, but the OL was worthless in that game. Plummer never had a chance. He was sandwiched on the first 2 of his turnovers.

That team was a last gasp of a handful of ageing veterans. Al Wilson's career tanked due to injury after that year. DT Gerard Warren put on a salary drive that year, and upon getting paid, promptly retired again, but without telling anybody. And Courtney Browns' knees never allowed him to play again. Rod Smith retired too.

Shanny realized that they couldn't go any further with Plummer so he drafted Jay Cutler. No knowing what would have happened in Cutler's career if Shanny wasn't fired. Possibly nothing good, but Shanny actually had influence over him.

But, 2005 was one of those moments where the old team makes one more run. But, it can't be repeated again with those players.

Shanny's bad drafting (Moving up in the draft to get Jarvis Moss??) doomed him in any case.

[Northman]

Nwell that was ALL on the defense.



Uh, no it wasnt. In fact, the AFCCG was a lot like what we have been seeing this year. Plummer had 4 TO's in that game (something that carried over into the following season) and while the defense was good it wasnt like 2015 good. I agree that most of what Plummer did was great for Denver and i knew when we signed him he would be an upgrade over what we had previously. But Plummer was always a middle of the road QB and had his own ceiling. You can blame the defense and the Oline for some of that game but the onus was Jake and his 4 turnovers. You simply cannot do that against teams, especially the Steelers.

[Broncoknight30]

Uh, no it wasnt. In fact, the AFCCG was a lot like what we have been seeing this year. Plummer had 4 TO's in that game (something that carried over into the following season) and while the defense was good it wasnt like 2015 good. I agree that most of what Plummer did was great for Denver and i knew when we signed him he would be an upgrade over what we had previously. But Plummer was always a middle of the road QB and had his own ceiling. You can blame the defense and the Oline for some of that game but the onus was Jake and his 4 turnovers. You simply cannot do that against teams, especially the Steelers.

No, it was the six 3rd and longs given up. Cant blame Plummer for getting crushed by the number one defense, who had a ferocious pass rush amd thrived on playing with leads. Those 3rd and longs led to 17 points by the Steelers.

Once the Broncos were relegated passing every down, they were all but done.

Sorry, but giving up more than one 3rd and long is inexcusable, let alone six. I think it was actually more than that. I seem to remember cursing Foxworth during that game.

Plummer bears some of it, but not most of it. Cedric Wilson was a pedestrian WR.and he had a huge day.

[Northman]

Plummer bears some of it, but not most of it. Cedric Wilson was a pedestrian WR.and he had a huge day.


You are simply wrong chap. Simply wrong. Ask any coach, turnovers are the achilles heel to any team's success.

[BroncoWave]

You are simply wrong chap. Simply wrong. Ask any coach, turnovers are the achilles heel to any team's success.

We were already down 17-3 by the time Plummer threw his first pick, so it's a little disingenuous to say the loss was all on him. As others have said, he really started turning it over when we were getting killed and he was forced to pass every play and the Steelers knew it.

[Broncoknight30]

You are simply wrong chap. Simply wrong. Ask any coach, turnovers are the achilles heel to any team's success.

No, credit the Steelers defense for forced turnovers. The Broncos as a result of their failed defense, were out of what they did.

Plummer should not get the lions share of the blame. Not even close really.

[Davii]

I love McKenzie. He's literally the most entertaining thing about the Broncos right now. We absolutely can, and should execute him.

fify

[Freyaka]

I enjoyed the Jake Plummer era. He could be the most frustrating player to watch sometimes, but he had more good games than bad. Those bootlegs he ran were a thing of beauty.

I would give my left nut for a QB that executes a naked boot as well as the snake did. I so badly miss that style of offense, for all the frustration he could cause, when he was playing well, it was was a hell of a lot of fun to watch.

[Freyaka]

No, credit the Steelers defense for forced turnovers. The Broncos as a result of their failed defense, were out of what they did.

Plummer should not get the lions share of the blame. Not even close really.

Plummer's turnovers sucked, but he was basically out there playing alone. No one on the team showed up that game so it was an across the board team loss.

[EastCoastBronco]

I can't believe that Shanny replaced this:

11534

With this...

11535

I loved Jake the Snake.
Fun to watch.

I also liked watching Timmy Touchdown play as well.
He made the games "exciting".
I'd trade every game this year except for the Dallas game for any of the games that Tebow played.

[Freyaka]

I can't believe that Shanny replaced this:

11534

With this...

11535

I loved Jake the Snake.
Fun to watch.

I also liked watching Timmy Touchdown play as well.
He made the games "exciting".
I'd trade every game this year except for the Dallas game for any of the games that Tebow played.

I don't know that my faulty heart could handle the Teebs again, but Jake was fun to watch. I wish we'd have kept him and never drafted Cutler. We were so close to being a Superbowl Team with Jake and we just murdered his confidence drafting Cutler to compete with him.

[Buff]

I don't know that my faulty heart could handle the Teebs again, but Jake was fun to watch. I wish we'd have kept him and never drafted Cutler. We were so close to being a Superbowl Team with Jake and we just murdered his confidence drafting Cutler to compete with him.

Jake shit the bed badly when we had a superior team in the AFC championship game at home against the Steelers. He has nobody to blame but himself.

[Freyaka]

Jake shit the bed badly when we had a superior team in the AFC championship game at home against the Steelers. He has nobody to blame but himself.

As was already pointed out, the entire team crapped said bed. We were 17-3 before the first interception even happened. He Elway and Manning are the 3 best QB's we've ever had and I'd take him over the three jokers we have now without a second thought.

[Buff]

As was already pointed out, the entire team crapped said bed. We were 17-3 before the first interception even happened. He Elway and Manning are the 3 best QB's we've ever had and I'd take him over the three jokers we have now without a second thought.

He quit when the going got tough. Couldn't handle criticism. I don't hold him in high regard.

[Freyaka]

He quit when the going got tough. Couldn't handle criticism. I don't hold him in high regard.

Well the fanbase basically turned on him, I don't blame him at all. The fans were a bunch of ungrateful ass holes to him, I'd have said screw it and walked away too.

[Buff]

Well the fanbase basically turned on him, I don't blame him at all. The fans were a bunch of ungrateful ass holes to him, I'd have said screw it and walked away too.

I turned on him earlier than most. He was never going to reach the next level because he wasn't a hard worker... He just liked to show up and wing it. Shanny got sick of him not taking the next step.

[dogfish]

plummer sucked nuts! lol @ people still talking about that stiff. . .

[Broncoknight30]

Jake shit the bed badly when we had a superior team in the AFC championship game at home against the Steelers. He has nobody to blame but himself.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

[dogfish]

You have no clue what you are talking about.

you want the truth?! you can't handle the truth!!

[MOtorboat]

Plummer is a great man.

He led the team to a 33-15 record in his first three seasons, three playoff appearances and an AFC Championship. He was rewarded with Shanahan drafting a punk bitch of a quarterback after the AFC Championship.

[Broncoknight30]

you want the truth?! you can't handle the truth!!

The truth is cutler sucked and plummer was one thousand times better for this franchise than cutler.

Shanahan was essentially fired for that move and that move sent this franchise into the land of 8-8 or worse for 5 years.

Eventually led to Mcdaniels and the rest is history.

There are still dope Bronco fans that think Cutler was a franchise QB.

Funny

[dogfish]

There are still dope Bronco fans that think Cutler was a franchise QB.

Funny

yea, but tubby is an idiot-- nobody pays any attention to what he thinks. . .

[Freyaka]

I turned on him earlier than most. He was never going to reach the next level because he wasn't a hard worker... He just liked to show up and wing it. Shanny got sick of him not taking the next step.

Buff, I love you man, but that's spoiled ass behavior. 33-15 dude... We went 8-8 for life after that until we finally ended up with Manning. Plummer was one game removed from a Superbowl Championship (we'd have won that superbowl by a mile had we gotten past Pittsburgh) It can't be superbowl or nothing every year. No team wins every year, most teams never win. Jake had us ultra competitive and had the defense showed up in Pittsburgh, he'd have been a different player. The lack of defense put the whole game on his shoulders and yes, that was too much for him.

Jake is better than ANY QB we've had since Elway outside of Manning, hands down, we'd be in the playoffs this year if we had the 2005 Plummer on this years team and that's a fact.

[Dreadnought]

I turned on him earlier than most. He was never going to reach the next level because he wasn't a hard worker... He just liked to show up and wing it. Shanny got sick of him not taking the next step.

I could forgive him for his craptastic performance in '05 v. the Steelers. Bad games happen, even to far better football players than Plummer ever dreamed of being. I never much liked him, even as a Cardinal, but he was mostly pretty decent during '05. No, it was his wretched 2006 performance that condemned him for good IMO. To put it in context, Siemian has thrown for a really poor 72.7 rating this year. 2011 Tebow threw for a slightly better 72.9. Neither of those performances are much to write home about, save that Tebow posted a winning record. Plummer was at a dismal 68.8 for the 2006 season - slightly worse than CJ Beatherd of 2017. He was simply awful, especially considering that he always benefitted from a powerful running attack to help disguise his own inadequacies, and in '06 gravytrained to a decent W-L record off of a remarkable defensive performance up until PMFM dismantled us. Cutler may have eventually become a douche, but none of the post-facto Cutler hatred can disguise Plummer's 2006 as one of the worst performances as a starting QB in the 21st Century.

[MOtorboat]

I could forgive him for his craptastic performance in '05 v. the Steelers. Bad games happen, even to far better football players than Plummer ever dreamed of being. I never much liked him, even as a Cardinal, but he was mostly pretty decent during '05. No, it was his wretched 2006 performance that condemned him for good IMO. To put it in context, Siemian has thrown for a really poor 72.7 rating this year. 2011 Tebow threw for a slightly better 72.9. Neither of those performances are much to write home about, save that Tebow posted a winning record. Plummer was at a dismal 68.8 for the 2006 season - slightly worse than CJ Beatherd of 2017. He was simply awful, especially considering that he always benefitted from a powerful running attack to help disguise his own inadequacies, and in '06 gravytrained to a decent W-L record off of a remarkable defensive performance up until PMFM dismantled us. Cutler may have eventually become a douche, but none of the post-facto Cutler hatred can disguise Plummer's 2006 as one of the worst performances as a starting QB in the 21st Century.

The Broncos were 7-4 when Plummer was benched in 2006. His overall record with the Broncos was 39-15. If you liked Tebow because he was a winner, you pretty much have to like Plummer for being a winner, don't you?

[BroncoWave]

I could forgive him for his craptastic performance in '05 v. the Steelers. Bad games happen, even to far better football players than Plummer ever dreamed of being. I never much liked him, even as a Cardinal, but he was mostly pretty decent during '05. No, it was his wretched 2006 performance that condemned him for good IMO. To put it in context, Siemian has thrown for a really poor 72.7 rating this year. 2011 Tebow threw for a slightly better 72.9. Neither of those performances are much to write home about, save that Tebow posted a winning record. Plummer was at a dismal 68.8 for the 2006 season - slightly worse than CJ Beatherd of 2017. He was simply awful, especially considering that he always benefitted from a powerful running attack to help disguise his own inadequacies, and in '06 gravytrained to a decent W-L record off of a remarkable defensive performance up until PMFM dismantled us. Cutler may have eventually become a douche, but none of the post-facto Cutler hatred can disguise Plummer's 2006 as one of the worst performances as a starting QB in the 21st Century.

Hyperbole at its finest. The average QB rating in the NFL among the top 10 passers is 102.41 as opposed to 94.75 in 2006. So as a percentage, Jake's 2006 rating was 72% as effective as the to 10 passers as opposed to Siemian this year his rating is 70% as effective as the top 10. So while still not great, not as historically awful as you're letting on.

[Slick]

I turned on him earlier than most. He was never going to reach the next level because he wasn't a hard worker... He just liked to show up and wing it. Shanny got sick of him not taking the next step.

I groaned out loud when Shanahan signed that bum in the first place.

[Dreadnought]

The Broncos were 7-4 when Plummer was benched in 2006. His overall record with the Broncos was 39-15. If you liked Tebow because he was a winner, you pretty much have to like Plummer for being a winner, don't you?

That 7-4 was entirely in spite of Plummer. That '06 team was a damned good one, and Larry Coyer's defense was better than just merely Good for the fist six games. Remember? 44 points allowed total in the first six games? All of 2 TD's surrendered in that stretch? Us going 5-1 even though the Plummer led offense never exceeded 17 points?

[Broncoknight30]

That 7-4 was entirely in spite of Plummer. That '06 team was a damned good one, and Larry Coyer's defense was better than just merely Good for the fist six games. Remember? 44 points allowed total in the first six games? All of 2 TD's surrendered in that stretch? Us going 5-1 even though the Plummer led offense never exceeded 17 points?

When shanahan traded UP to get poopy pants, that was shanahan destroying Plummers confidence. In 2005, he threw only 7 ints and was in the pro bowl.

He was still relatively young, and he probably had 5 good years left. The Broncos losing Kubiak hurt them, along with Plummers confidence being wrecked.

That 2006 season was the anomaly with Plummer as a Bronco. He produced and consistently made plays and led the team to the play offs.

[Dreadnought]

I groaned out loud when Shanahan signed that bum in the first place.

I felt relief, but for a weird reason. A co-worker along my secretary at the time April-fooled me, telling me as I returned from lunch that day that the Broncos had just signed Kordell Stewart, who was on the FA market. I was despondent, as few QB's have been as bad as Slash was. As it transpired, we signed Plummer (better than Stewart by far) while the Bears got Stewart. My co-worker was a Bears fan, so cosmic justice was indeed served

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

We could have had Ngata instead of Cuddles

[Freyaka]

We could have had Ngata instead of Cuddles

And if I remember correctly, the BIGGEST issue we had at that time is we had no presence in the interior line. We needed a big NT to make our 3-4 work (still an issue this year)

So really, Shanny effed that one up huge. He took a QB we didn't need, that didn't pan out, instead of grabbing a huge DT like Ngata that could have taken this defense to the next level.

[MOtorboat]

And if I remember correctly, the BIGGEST issue we had at that time is we had no presence in the interior line. We needed a big NT to make our 3-4 work (still an issue this year)

So really, Shanny effed that one up huge. He took a QB we didn't need, that didn't pan out, instead of grabbing a huge DT like Ngata that could have taken this defense to the next level.

Yep.

[Buff]

Shanny correctly realized that Jake had reached his ceiling. We would have needed the stars to align to ever get to the same place with him again. He didn't have championship pedigree....

Now of course Jay Cutler didn't either... But he had a more successful career than Jake Plummer!

[LawDog]

This thread has veered off course a tad...

[Buff]

This thread has veered off course a tad...

What more is there to say about Sunshine returning punts? I like me a good Jake Plummer debate.

[Broncoknight30]

Shanny correctly realized that Jake had reached his ceiling. We would have needed the stars to align to ever get to the same place with him again. He didn't have championship pedigree....

Now of course Jay Cutler didn't either... But he had a more successful career than Jake Plummer!

Cutler sucked and Plummer was a thousand times better for this team than that crap. Cutler did nothing for this team. Are ******* kidding me?

[MOtorboat]

But he had a more successful career than Jake Plummer!

Um. WTF are you talking about?

[Northman]

Jake shit the bed badly when we had a superior team in the AFC championship game at home against the Steelers. He has nobody to blame but himself.

Yeeeeeep.

[Buff]

Um. WTF are you talking about?

Go ahead and argue the counter point. Cutler had a better career by every objective measurement.

[BroncoWave]

Don't any of you losers act like you wouldn't kill to have Plummer right now!

[MOtorboat]

Go ahead and argue the counter point. Cutler had a better career by every objective measurement.

Define "every objective measurement."

[Northman]

I turned on him earlier than most. He was never going to reach the next level because he wasn't a hard worker... He just liked to show up and wing it. Shanny got sick of him not taking the next step.

Yes, this was clear fact (although i didnt turn on him until the 06' when he pouted about the Cutler pick) and failed to put the extra work in that it took to take himself to another level.

[Buff]

Define "every objective measurement."

More yards, better QB rating, better TD:INT ratio (!), same number of pro bowls, same number of championship game appearances. I'd be hard pressed to find an area where Plummer was superior.

[Northman]

I could forgive him for his craptastic performance in '05 v. the Steelers. Bad games happen, even to far better football players than Plummer ever dreamed of being. I never much liked him, even as a Cardinal, but he was mostly pretty decent during '05. No, it was his wretched 2006 performance that condemned him for good IMO. To put it in context, Siemian has thrown for a really poor 72.7 rating this year. 2011 Tebow threw for a slightly better 72.9. Neither of those performances are much to write home about, save that Tebow posted a winning record. Plummer was at a dismal 68.8 for the 2006 season - slightly worse than CJ Beatherd of 2017. He was simply awful, especially considering that he always benefitted from a powerful running attack to help disguise his own inadequacies, and in '06 gravytrained to a decent W-L record off of a remarkable defensive performance up until PMFM dismantled us. Cutler may have eventually become a douche, but none of the post-facto Cutler hatred can disguise Plummer's 2006 as one of the worst performances as a starting QB in the 21st Century.

Boom!

[Northman]

That 7-4 was entirely in spite of Plummer. That '06 team was a damned good one, and Larry Coyer's defense was better than just merely Good for the fist six games. Remember? 44 points allowed total in the first six games? All of 2 TD's surrendered in that stretch? Us going 5-1 even though the Plummer led offense never exceeded 17 points?

Dread is absolutely destroying the opposition in this thread.

[Northman]

Don't any of you losers act like you wouldn't kill to have Plummer right now!

Why? So he can throw 4 Int's again? :lol:

[BroncoWave]

Why? So he can throw 4 Int's again? :lol:

I'll kill to have a QB throw 4 picks in an AFCCG right now. That means we have a QB getting us to the AFCCG.

[MOtorboat]

More yards, better QB rating, better TD:INT ratio (!), same number of pro bowls, same number of championship game appearances. I'd be hard pressed to find an area where Plummer was superior.

Average season:
Plummer, 14 GS, 248-435, 2925, 16-16.
Cutler, 12 GS, 248-399, 2859, 19-13.

Record:
Plummer 69-67
Cutler 73-76

Plummer made the playoffs four times. Cutler went once. Plummer was rookie of the year and each went to one pro bowl. If anything, they had about the same career, Cutler's is just slightly longer. I'm not about to concede that Cutler is a better player because he played longer.

[BroncoWave]

Although for the sake of accuracy, he threw 2 picks and had 2 fumbles in that game. A little different than throwing 4 picks.

[BroncoWave]

Dread is absolutely destroying the opposition in this thread.

Not really. He's just showing how absolutely spoiled our fans are by guys like Elway and Manning that they are shitting on a guy like Plummer. Plummer was a damn good QB and won a lot of games as our QB. Any fan who wouldn't kill to have that kind of success right now as opposed to what we have now is either a liar or stupid.

[Northman]

More yards, better QB rating, better TD:INT ratio (!), same number of pro bowls, same number of championship game appearances. I'd be hard pressed to find an area where Plummer was superior.

I wasnt even sure if you were right but damn if you werent. Almost identical with Jay actually a little better in some areas. Lol


Jay Cutler


34,304 yds passing
223 Td's, 157 Int's
1 Pro Bowl




Jake Plummer


29,253 yds passing
161 Td's, 161 Int's
1 Pro Bowl

[Northman]

I'll kill to have a QB throw 4 picks in an AFCCG right now. That means we have a QB getting us to the AFCCG.

You must of slept through the 06 ' season then Waver. Jake followed that AFCCG with 4 Int's by throwing 4 Int's to start the season vs the Rams.

[BroncoWave]

Plummer was also on some GARBAGE Cardinal teams. And STILL won a playoff game there, which no other AZ QB had done for decades before that.

[BroncoWave]

You must of slept through the 06 ' season then Waver. Jake followed that AFCCG with 4 Int's by throwing 4 Int's to start the season vs the Rams.

Ok? Manning had a 4 pick game here too. I'm sure Elway had a few as well. One game doesn't define a career. Jake's record as our starter speaks for itself.

[Northman]

Not really. He's just showing how absolutely spoiled our fans are by guys like Elway and Manning that they are shitting on a guy like Plummer. Plummer was a damn good QB and won a lot of games as our QB. Any fan who wouldn't kill to have that kind of success right now as opposed to what we have now is either a liar or stupid.

Plummer was an OK QB, not great as many you are claiming. And no, he would not have been able to save this team with his play because he was fortunate when he actually did play to have a running game which we do not have.

[Northman]

Ok? Manning had a 4 pick game here too. I'm sure Elway had a few as well. One game doesn't define a career. Jake's record as our starter speaks for itself.

So now you are back to proclaiming Jake as good as Manning and Elway.

OH GOD, i think i just fell out of my chair.

[BroncoWave]

Plummer was an OK QB, not great as many you are claiming. And no, he would not have been able to save this team with his play because he was fortunate when he actually did play to have a running game which we do not have.

Who said he was great? Just saying that he was a whole hell of a lot better than anything we currently have.

[BroncoWave]

So now you are back to proclaiming Jake as good as Manning and Elway.

OH GOD, i think i just fell out of my chair.

You are the king of putting words in people's mouths. This is why it's a pain in the ass having debates with you. Want to try to be honest with your replies now?

[Northman]

You are the king of putting words in people's mouths. This is why it's a pain in the ass having debates with you. Want to try to be honest with your replies now?

You are the one that used Manning and Elway to defend his turnover ratio. Go look at his career numbers Wave, seriously. As you say, the stats speak for themselves right?

[LawDog]

Define "every objective measurement."

Pretty sure Cutler never threw any left handed pick sixes. That can be objectively measured.

[BroncoWave]

You are the one that used Manning and Elway to defend his turnover ratio. Go look at his career numbers Wave, seriously. As you say, the stats speak for themselves right?

All I said is that all QBs have bad games, even the great ones. Cherry picking a couple of bad games is not a good argument as to why he was bad. His career numbers is a different argument, which you were not using before.

And honestly, I only care about his Denver numbers when evaluating him. Who cares what he did before he got here?

[Freyaka]

Not really. He's just showing how absolutely spoiled our fans are by guys like Elway and Manning that they are shitting on a guy like Plummer. Plummer was a damn good QB and won a lot of games as our QB. Any fan who wouldn't kill to have that kind of success right now as opposed to what we have now is either a liar or stupid.

Eg-fricken-zactly!

You would think seeing what true garbage like Orton, Trevor, Brock and Lynch could do would make people recognize that "man, we really undervalued what Jake brought to the team" but nope, digging in with the spoiled freaking hot takes.

[Freyaka]

So now you are back to proclaiming Jake as good as Manning and Elway.

OH GOD, i think i just fell out of my chair.

Jesus the hyperbole is physically painful. No one said that except you just now. He's also not some terrible QB. He was a QB who would be the starter on all but a handful of teams today. People like Manning and Elway are rare, and fans can't accept anything less than that once they've had it. Suddenly a good and serviceable QB is flaming dog poo because he doesn't have the magical "ceiling" that only a handful of QB's a generation have.

[Northman]

All I said is that all QBs have bad games, even the great ones. Cherry picking a couple of bad games is not a good argument as to why he was bad. His career numbers is a different argument, which you were not using before.

And honestly, I only care about his Denver numbers when evaluating him. Who cares what he did before he got here?

You only care about his Denver numbers from like 15 years ago man. You then somehow believe that even if he was still a ripe young man that he could be as good on this team than the ones lead by a SB winning coach, a better oline, and a better running attack? Really? Sorry dude, you aint being honest with yourself if you truly believe that.

[Northman]

Eg-fricken-zactly!

You would think seeing what true garbage like Orton, Trevor, Brock and Lynch could do would make people recognize that "man, we really undervalued what Jake brought to the team" but nope, digging in with the spoiled freaking hot takes.

If you cry about it some more i just might care....

[Northman]

Jesus the hyperbole is physically painful. No one said that except you just now.

Shut your piehole, and get a better avatar. Its ugly as shit.

[BroncoWave]

Hot damn this debate has my juices flowing! I miss a good old fashioned Plummer debate!

[Northman]

Hot damn this debate has my juices flowing! I miss a good old fashioned Plummer debate!

And like clockwork you guys are incredibly as bad now as you were then. I needed this so i can own you all over again!

[Freyaka]

Glad you are enjoying it Wave...Now that the petulance has started, I'm done... People wanna hate the guy that bad, go for it. I enjoyed his time here, oh well if others didn't, I'm done arguing it.

[BroncoWave]

You don't wake up every morning expecting to get to come on here with your Plummer takes. Life comes at you fast!

[Broncoknight30]

What was Plummers stats and records for the Broncos?
Plummer
2003 in 11 games he had 15 TDs to 7 ints and a 9-2 record as a starter.

2004 he passed for over 4000 yards and tied a Broncos record with 27 TDs. He only had 521 pass attempts as opposed to the 616 pass attempts by poopy pants in 2008. Also, poopy pants was only sacked 11 times in 616 attempts. Yet, he led the NFL in red zone picks. In fact poopy pants had thrown as many red zone picks in that one year than Brady had his entire career.

Plummer finished that seson with a 10-6 record.

Then in 2005, Plummer had his best rating season, leading the Broncos to a 13-3 record and outdueled Brady in the playoffs giving him his first playoff loss of his career.

Cutler cried his stupid petulant spoiled cry baby ass out of here and went to do nothing in chicago except beating a 7-9 seahawks team for his only pathetic playoff win.

Cutler inspired no one. He could go suck farts. Plummer was great for this franchise and cutler was an epic ******* disaster.

And Broncos fans are still crying that he was traded. You all know now you were all wrong about him, right?

You do realize that, right?

[Northman]

Glad you are enjoying it Wave...Now that the petulance has started, I'm done... People wanna hate the guy that bad, go for it. I enjoyed his time here, oh well if others didn't, I'm done arguing it.

See? Just like Plummer. A quitter.....

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This thread has veered off course a tad...

11537

[Freyaka]

This thread has veered off course a tad...

http://www.technobuffalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/bugs-bunny-map-630x453.jpeg

[Northman]

My goodness, some people take this board way to serious. I just want to put it out there that if i hurt anyone's (else's) feelings i apologize. I did not realize that people took opinions on this board that seriously, so im sorry if i offended you with my expert opinion on the Plummage (or any other topic on here).

The thread can now move forward. Lol

[BroncoWave]

My goodness, some people take this board way to serious. I just want to put it out there that if i hurt anyone's (else's) feelings i apologize. I did not realize that people took opinions on this board that seriously, so im sorry if i offended you with my expert opinion on the Plummage (or any other topic on here).

The thread can now move forward. Lol

It was fun for me.

[Hawgdriver]

What more is there to say about Sunshine returning punts? I like me a good Jake Plummer debate.

You call those rinkydink talking points a debate?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

You call those rinkydink talking points a debate?

Who’s more average damnit!

[slim]

I love Jake. LOVE.

[Hawgdriver]

Glad you are enjoying it Wave...Now that the petulance has started, I'm done... People wanna hate the guy that bad, go for it. I enjoyed his time here, oh well if others didn't, I'm done arguing it.

c'mon man, tag me in!!!

https://media.giphy.com/media/11Esgie7oDNGfe/giphy.gif

[Freyaka]

I guess my line of thinking is like wave's in that I really don't care what a QB's stats look like outside of Denver. I don't care what they did before or after us because they weren't our QB...




Yards TD INT Comp Win Loss
Plummer 2907.75 17.75 11.75 59.18 39 15
Cutler 3008 18 12.3 61.66 17 20



For me, ya, cutler and Plummer were close the same statistics (I've averaged Cutler's stats per year and Plummer's to get close to a fair comparison) What matters most to is the last part of those numbers. W/L Cutler was a loser his entire career. High School, College and Pros. Plummer won us a lot of games. That means something to me. To even suggest that Cutler was as successful as Jay...get out of here with that blasphemy. That little turd was a 6 at best. Plummer was a 10

[Cugel]

I guess my line of thinking is like wave's in that I really don't care what a QB's stats look like outside of Denver. I don't care what they did before or after us because they weren't our QB...




Yards TD INT Comp Win Loss
Plummer 2907.75 17.75 11.75 59.18 39 15
Cutler 3008 18 12.3 61.66 17 20



For me, ya, cutler and Plummer were close the same statistics (I've averaged Cutler's stats per year and Plummer's to get close to a fair comparison) What matters most to is the last part of those numbers. W/L Cutler was a loser his entire career. High School, College and Pros. Plummer won us a lot of games. That means something to me. To even suggest that Cutler was as successful as Jay...get out of here with that blasphemy. That little turd was a 6 at best. Plummer was a 10

Cutler was a turd. But he was a lot more talented than Plummer. He just didn't care. He was the original "I don't care!" dude. Plummer was never close to a 10.

Shanahan wasn't stupid. He might have been bad at the draft but he could spot when a QB had what it takes to win SBs and Plummer didn't. Of course, Jay didn't either, but then nobody else in the 2006 draft did either.

[Buff]

You call those rinkydink talking points a debate?

You got summpin to say boih?

[ShaneFalco]

Don't any of you losers act like you wouldn't kill to have Plummer right now!

or tebow

[Dreadnought]

You call those rinkydink talking points a debate?

Right. Its no debate, really. When it comes to NFL football I know that if I have Buff, Dogfish, and Slick on my side I must be right. Maybe only G-Money is a stronger source

[Davii]

or tebow

No, he said "kill to have", not "kill yourself if we had". See the difference there?

[Hawgdriver]

You got summpin to say boih?

Plummer took his team to the AFCCG and was a Ngata's ass away from a championship...Shanahan seriously misread the situation and lost this chance at another championship..

Do I begrudge Plummer his pout-a-thon in 2006? Yes. But Shanny had to know he would get that. He should have given it another year with a solution to the core issue holding the team back: DT.

[ShaneFalco]

No, he said "kill to have", not "kill yourself if we had". See the difference there?

tebow would have this team winning the afc west right now

[Buff]

Plummer took his team to the AFCCG and was a Ngata's ass away from a championship...Shanahan seriously misread the situation and lost this chance at another championship..

Do I begrudge Plummer his pout-a-thon in 2006? Yes. But Shanny had to know he would get that. He should have given it another year with a solution to the core issue holding the team back: DT.

I think Shanny read the situation perfectly - with the exception of Jay Cutler's character. Plummer was propped up by Shanahan's zone blocking scheme which lent itself particularly well to getting Jake out of the pocket and playing to his strengths. He was not a good pocket passer, nor a particularly accurate thrower. It was a minor miracle that we had the season we did and went to the AFCG and Shanny correctly read that it was an unsustainable model moving forward.

His move was further validated when Plummer proceeded to pout and cut off his nose to spite his face by retiring. Good riddance.

[MOtorboat]

tebow would have this team winning the afc west right now

Is that why he was out of the league in three years? He was too good?

[MOtorboat]

I think Shanny read the situation perfectly - with the exception of Jay Cutler's character. Plummer was propped up by Shanahan's zone blocking scheme which lent itself particularly well to getting Jake out of the pocket and playing to his strengths. He was not a good pocket passer, nor a particularly accurate thrower. It was a minor miracle that we had the season we did and went to the AFCG and Shanny correctly read that it was an unsustainable model moving forward.

His move was further validated when Plummer proceeded to pout and cut off his nose to spite his face by retiring. Good riddance.

7-4 to 8-8 and missing the playoffs. He read it perfectly.

Oh, and two more season collapses to boot! Perfectly.

[Hawgdriver]

I think Shanny read the situation perfectly - with the exception of Jay Cutler's character. Plummer was propped up by Shanahan's zone blocking scheme which lent itself particularly well to getting Jake out of the pocket and playing to his strengths. He was not a good pocket passer, nor a particularly accurate thrower. It was a minor miracle that we had the season we did and went to the AFCG and Shanny correctly read that it was an unsustainable model moving forward.

His move was further validated when Plummer proceeded to pout and cut off his nose to spite his face by retiring. Good riddance.

No, his move backfired and sunk the franchise. With hindsight we can say with near certainty that the correct decision was to double down on Jake and bolster the D.

I agree with you that Plummer's .700+ win percentage with Shanny was impressive.

[Buff]

No, his move backfired and sunk the franchise. With hindsight we can say with near certainty that the correct decision was to double down on Jake and bolster the D.

I agree with you that Plummer's .700+ win percentage with Shanny was impressive.

We are in full agreement that not bolstering the D sunk the franchise.

[wayninja]

Is that why he was out of the league in three years? He was too good?

Nah, it was because top tier talent like Trevor Siemian and Paxton Lynch came along...

[MOtorboat]

Nah, it was because top tier talent like Trevor Siemian and Paxton Lynch came along...

And they're a better option than Tebow. There's a reason Tebow is on TV.

[dogfish]

plummer didn't have the work ethic to get us to the mountaintop. . . you can argue with the guys we brought in after him, but trying to find the guy who can get you there is the right choice. . .

[Hawgdriver]

plummer didn't have the work ethic to get us to the mountaintop. . . you can argue with the guys we brought in after him, but trying to find the guy who can get you there is the right choice. . .

Work ethic is an odd way to spell defensive tackle.

[wayninja]

And they're a better option than Tebow. There's a reason Tebow is on TV.

LMAO. It certainly feels like they are.

Head coaches are only wrong about QB's before they draft them.

[BroncoWave]

Right. Its no debate, really. When it comes to NFL football I know that if I have Buff, Dogfish, and Slick on my side I must be right. Maybe only G-Money is a stronger source

I'll take mo over any of those losers!

[NightTrainLayne]

When shanahan traded UP to get poopy pants, that was shanahan destroying Plummers confidence. In 2005, he threw only 7 ints and was in the pro bowl.

He was still relatively young, and he probably had 5 good years left. The Broncos losing Kubiak hurt them, along with Plummers confidence being wrecked.

That 2006 season was the anomaly with Plummer as a Bronco. He produced and consistently made plays and led the team to the play offs.

Plummer is one more plank in my argument of Kubiak as one of the all-time great coaches.

[tubby]

yea, but tubby is an idiot-- nobody pays any attention to what he thinks. . .

Excuse me? Nobody hated Cok6 more than me. NOBODY!