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View Full Version : Some of Lynch's best attributes...accordbing to Musgrave.



Broncoknight30
11-23-2017, 04:25 PM
Games will show what Paxton Lynch can do away from 'controlled environment' http://espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/29442/games-will-show-what-paxton-lynch-can-do-away-from-controlled-environment
via @ESPN App http://es.pn/app

"He is definitely tall."

That is it, according to Musgrave.

LOL.

dogfish
11-23-2017, 04:37 PM
i was gonna go with "tall". . .

BroncoWave
11-23-2017, 04:58 PM
I hope he's either really great or really awful. Either let us know he's a stud or let him be so bad we don't win another game. I'm afraid we're going to get some middle ground where he shows flashes but we still don't know either way.

Broncoknight30
11-23-2017, 05:06 PM
I hope he's either really great or really awful. Either let us know he's a stud or let him be so bad we don't win another game. I'm afraid we're going to get some middle ground where he shows flashes but we still don't know either way.

I will repeat it.

If Musgrave insists on putting him under center and trying to.operate a conventional pro style offense, he will look awful.

BroncoWave
11-23-2017, 05:08 PM
I will repeat it.

If Musgrave insists on putting him under center and trying to.operate a conventional pro style offense, he will look awful.

And if he puts him in a Tebow offense we'll have no idea how good he is because he won't be allowed to do anything. I'd rather him sink or swim the the type of offense he'd have to run if he were to be a successful QB.

chazoe60
11-23-2017, 05:18 PM
I will repeat it.

If Musgrave insists on putting him under center and trying to.operate a conventional pro style offense, he will look awful.

Its pro football. If he can't run a prostyle offense then he doesn't belong in t he pros. He's gonna be awful by the way in case anyone was wondering.

Broncoknight30
11-23-2017, 05:20 PM
Its pro football. If he can't run a prostyle offense then he doesn't belong in t he pros. He's gonna be awful by the way in case anyone was wondering.
Yes, you see the problem.

aberdien
11-23-2017, 06:31 PM
I will repeat it.

If Musgrave insists on putting him under center and trying to.operate a conventional pro style offense, he will look awful.

Let's make it happen.

Northman
11-23-2017, 07:22 PM
Its pro football. If he can't run a prostyle offense then he doesn't belong in t he pros. He's gonna be awful by the way in case anyone was wondering.

All this. ^

This is the big leagues, either you know how to play at this level or you dont.

Shazam!
11-23-2017, 07:33 PM
Didn't the Broncos rid themselves of another QB for the same reasons? :rolleyes

slim
11-23-2017, 09:02 PM
Games will show what Paxton Lynch can do away from 'controlled environment' http://espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/29442/games-will-show-what-paxton-lynch-can-do-away-from-controlled-environment
via @ESPN App http://es.pn/app

"He is definitely tall."

That is it, according to Musgrave.

LOL.

Fake news. He had more to say than that.

Hawgdriver
11-23-2017, 09:05 PM
"He is definitely tall."

That's my spirit animal!!!

BroncoWave
11-23-2017, 09:33 PM
Its pro football. If he can't run a prostyle offense then he doesn't belong in t he pros. He's gonna be awful by the way in case anyone was wondering.

Yep. It's not going to do anyone any good to stick him in the retard Tebow offense. He can either play in a real offense or he can't. Let's find out.

Ground Control
11-23-2017, 09:35 PM
And if he puts him in a Tebow offense we'll have no idea how good he is because he won't be allowed to do anything. I'd rather him sink or swim the the type of offense he'd have to run if he were to be a successful QB.

Exactly.

Simple Jaded
11-24-2017, 04:16 AM
He didn’t run the Tebow offense in his 2 1/2 games last year.

I think people are confusing a Tebow shitshow with a college offense, the Broncos refused to let Tebow play QB ... mostly because he wasn’t a QB.

Broncoknight30
11-24-2017, 06:26 AM
Its pro football. If he can't run a prostyle offense then he doesn't belong in t he pros. He's gonna be awful by the way in case anyone was wondering.

There are teams that do run a spread offense. It is basically what the Pats have been running for a while now.

Like this drive against the Broncos in 2012, where they are in 3 WR set virtually the entire game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x81pM49zjP8&t=56s

That is NOT a conventional "pro style offense" and Brady is in shotgun the entire game. That is the classic "basketball on grass" offense.

Not saying Paxton Lynch could become that, but he is more apt to run out of those formations than he is playing from under center. Many NFL teams run versions of this offense.

Shazam!
11-24-2017, 07:42 AM
Its pro football. If he can't run a prostyle offense then he doesn't belong in t he pros. He's gonna be awful by the way in case anyone was wondering.

There are teams that do run a spread offense. It is basically what the Pats have been running for a while now.

Like this drive against the Broncos in 2012, where they are in 3 WR set virtually the entire game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x81pM49zjP8&t=56s

That is NOT a conventional "pro style offense" and Brady is in shotgun the entire game. That is the classic "basketball on grass" offense.

Not saying Paxton Lynch could become that, but he is more apt to run out of those formations than he is playing from under center. Many NFL teams run versions of this offense.

I'm a believer of Coaching to the players strengths and not forcing them to perform in ways that the player will obviously struggle. I felt this way about the 2015 Manning. Forcing him out of the shotgun early on was a mistake. This is the biggest example of this. Gotta keep your guys in their comfort zone to do what they do best.

If Lynch operates best out of the shotgun, they gotta keep him in shotgun. Very simple stuff.

Ziggy
11-24-2017, 08:32 AM
I'm a believer of Coaching to the players strengths and not forcing them to perform in ways that the player will obviously struggle. I felt this way about the 2015 Manning. Forcing him out of the shotgun early on was a mistake. This is the biggest example of this. Gotta keep your guys in their comfort zone to do what they do best.

If Lynch operates best out of the shotgun, they gotta keep him in shotgun. Very simple stuff.

If that was VJ's policy this defense would be playing strong man D behind a lot of creative blitzing. It doesn't happen. Thus this D is 27th in scoring D. I'm not sure how much that's on VJ and how much it's on our crappy new D coordinator. Will he let Musgrave coach to the player's strengths? We'll see.

Shazam!
11-24-2017, 08:48 AM
I'm a believer of Coaching to the players strengths and not forcing them to perform in ways that the player will obviously struggle. I felt this way about the 2015 Manning. Forcing him out of the shotgun early on was a mistake. This is the biggest example of this. Gotta keep your guys in their comfort zone to do what they do best.

If Lynch operates best out of the shotgun, they gotta keep him in shotgun. Very simple stuff.

If that was VJ's policy this defense would be playing strong man D behind a lot of creative blitzing. It doesn't happen. Thus this D is 27th in scoring D. I'm not sure how much that's on VJ and how much it's on our crappy new D coordinator. Will he let Musgrave coach to the player's strengths? We'll see.

The D has carried this team for two years. They have been put in bad positions and asked to do far too much. Eventually the pressure of playing near perfect every play became too much. Just like a horrific defense will put too much pressure on an offense, just the opposite.

Broncoknight30
11-24-2017, 08:59 AM
The D has carried this team for two years. They have been put in bad positions and asked to do far too much. Eventually the pressure of playing near perfect every play became too much. Just like a horrific defense will put too much pressure on an offense, just the opposite.

This is true. Part of the magic from 2015 (actually the main key) were turnovers generated by that defense. Hard to say how much coaching plays a part. Don't know if it is scheming or mindset, but it sure seems like that stat follows Wade Philips coached defenses.

Problem is you cannot rely on that year in and year out. Hard to keep up that kind of production and when they don't happen, frustration follows.

I will say this. Balanced offenses are usually more typical in regards to SB winning teams. Top 10 most prolific passing teams in history, only one won the SB and that was the 1999 Rams.

Shazam!
11-24-2017, 10:31 AM
The D has carried this team for two years. They have been put in bad positions and asked to do far too much. Eventually the pressure of playing near perfect every play became too much. Just like a horrific defense will put too much pressure on an offense, just the opposite.

This is true. Part of the magic from 2015 (actually the main key) were turnovers generated by that defense. Hard to say how much coaching plays a part. Don't know if it is scheming or mindset, but it sure seems like that stat follows Wade Philips coached defenses.

Problem is you cannot rely on that year in and year out. Hard to keep up that kind of production and when they don't happen, frustration follows.

I will say this. Balanced offenses are usually more typical in regards to SB winning teams. Top 10 most prolific passing teams in history, only one won the SB and that was the 1999 Rams.

Thats what the problem is. This team can't do ANYTHING right on offense. If they can just run the ball competently, they can build on that. If they can just dink and dunk here and there with even mediocre production, they can build in Taht. That sort of smoke and mirrors play will get you by until you face elite talented teams.

This offense cannot do ANYTHING with any kind of dependency. That's what is wrecking them. And it almost all is on the OLine.

Cugel
11-24-2017, 11:06 AM
This is true. Part of the magic from 2015 (actually the main key) were turnovers generated by that defense. Hard to say how much coaching plays a part. Don't know if it is scheming or mindset, but it sure seems like that stat follows Wade Philips coached defenses.

Problem is you cannot rely on that year in and year out. Hard to keep up that kind of production and when they don't happen, frustration follows.

I will say this. Balanced offenses are usually more typical in regards to SB winning teams. Top 10 most prolific passing teams in history, only one won the SB and that was the 1999 Rams.

The one ingredient you left out of this recipe is an elite top 10 QB. Because that's what you need to win SBs in the NFL.

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Eli Manning
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Tom Brady
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson
Tom Brady

The 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs and 2015 Broncos won without good QB play. Every other QB was an elite top 10 QB, even Joe Flacco had a career year in 2012 and played at an incredible level.

Every other year it's another elite QB, in the years when it's not Tom Brady.

Rick
11-24-2017, 11:59 AM
I wonder if it is easier to build an elite defense or to find Tom Brady.

Actually I am pretty sure of the answer.

Broncoknight30
11-24-2017, 12:05 PM
The one ingredient you left out of this recipe is an elite top 10 QB. Because that's what you need to win SBs in the NFL.

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Eli Manning
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Tom Brady
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson
Tom Brady

The 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs and 2015 Broncos won without good QB play. Every other QB was an elite top 10 QB, even Joe Flacco had a career year in 2012 and played at an incredible level.

Every other year it's another elite QB, in the years when it's not Tom Brady.

Most of those teams with the elite QBs ran balanced offenses and their defenses were often elite.

The Saints in 2009 had the 6th ranked rushing attack and this year they commit harder to balance and they start winning.

Even Rodgers defense in 2010 was elite statistically. Roethlisberger had the number 1 defense in 2005, they were certainly committed to balance and he had a 22 rating in that win against the Seahawks.

We know the deal with the Seahawks victory. Russell Wilson certainly elite and they were very balanced with an elite defense.

Even the Broncos in 2015, you can compare them to 2013. Most prolific passing offense ever, 19th ranked defense, they get smoked.

2015, horrific offense, 33rd ranked QB, and they went 1 for 14 on 3rd downs in 50. They are the winners behind the number 1 defense.

Even the Pats who had not won the SB for 10 seasons before they did in 2014 had their best defense in years that year.

Tom Brady's first 3 SBs did not pass for 4000 yards or 30tds in any of those seasons.

Don't think all of these facts are lost on Elway. Which is what he wants.

There is a theme here.

FanInAZ
11-24-2017, 12:57 PM
The one ingredient you left out of this recipe is an elite top 10 QB. Because that's what you need to win SBs in the NFL.

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Eli Manning
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Tom Brady
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson
Tom Brady

The 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs and 2015 Broncos won without good QB play. Every other QB was an elite top 10 QB, even Joe Flacco had a career year in 2012 and played at an incredible level.

Every other year it's another elite QB, in the years when it's not Tom Brady.

You start off with an absolute statement, then you provide 2 examples that contradict your statement. As far as Flacco, yes, he had what was for him a career year. However, just because the Ravens were stupid enough to make him the highest paid player after that year, doesn't change the fact that he was still just an average QB who benefited from having an elite RB drawing attention of the Ds. Here's how he ranked in each statistical category that year:

Completions: 15th
Attempts: 14th
Completion %: 19th
Yards: 14th
TDs: 17th
TD %: 16th
INTs: 24th (tied)
INT %: 5th Best (tied)
QBR: 17th

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2012/passing.htm

Great at not hurting his team (Grade: A) + A little above average at actually helping his team (Grade: B-) = Game manager (Grade: B+).

Rick
11-24-2017, 01:08 PM
And to think Cugel, you used to think Elway was a genius for drafting PL and working on building a team.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/603562-Why-Drafting-Paxton-Lynch-Is-A-Genius-Move-By-Elway

Shazam!
11-24-2017, 01:28 PM
And to think Cugel, you used to think Elway was a genius for drafting PL and working on building a team.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/603562-Why-Drafting-Paxton-Lynch-Is-A-Genius-Move-By-Elway

Here i I thought Cug was the genius all along :rolleyes

aberdien
11-24-2017, 01:52 PM
And to think Cugel, you used to think Elway was a genius for drafting PL and working on building a team.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/603562-Why-Drafting-Paxton-Lynch-Is-A-Genius-Move-By-Elway

Talk about a thread that has not aged well.

dogfish
11-24-2017, 02:02 PM
"he really has tremendous tallness". . .

NightTrainLayne
11-24-2017, 03:29 PM
"he really has tremendous tallness". . .

You can't coach tallness.

NightTrainLayne
11-24-2017, 03:30 PM
"he really has tremendous tallness". . .

You can't coach tallness.

LawDog
11-24-2017, 03:42 PM
Tallness is one of those rare measurable intangibles.

dogfish
11-24-2017, 04:24 PM
You can't coach tallness.

"When it comes to having great height, Paxton has been exceptional for us. We are excited to see how tall he can be on the field. "

Spiritguy
11-24-2017, 05:11 PM
You can't coach tallness.
You either got it or you don't!

LawDog
11-24-2017, 05:15 PM
“Not every 6’7” QB plays as tall as Paxton can. We fully expect him to be every inch of his height on Sunday.”

FanInAZ
11-24-2017, 05:19 PM
You can't coach tallness.

Want-a bet?

11473

DT88TheGreat
11-25-2017, 07:33 PM
And to think Cugel, you used to think Elway was a genius for drafting PL and working on building a team.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/603562-Why-Drafting-Paxton-Lynch-Is-A-Genius-Move-By-Elway

Lmao.... Genius moves usually remain genius. But oh well.

DT88TheGreat
11-25-2017, 07:49 PM
Games will show what Paxton Lynch can do away from 'controlled environment' http://espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/29442/games-will-show-what-paxton-lynch-can-do-away-from-controlled-environment
via @ESPN App http://es.pn/app

"He is definitely tall."

That is it, according to Musgrave.

LOL.

You are mis leading people. He said much more.about lynch. He knows he has some talent toI work with.

Hawgdriver
11-25-2017, 08:45 PM
You are mis leading people. He said much more.about lynch. He knows he has some talent toI work with.

What else did he say?

dogfish
11-25-2017, 09:47 PM
What else did he say?

this is all there was in the article. . .


“He’s definitely tall, so he can see the field, he can throw the ball all over the field with his strength," Musgrave said. “He just needs time on task. This will be good. This will be another step in his development of getting him on the field so he can get more time on task. You’re only going to learn from experience. You don’t learn from the sideline. This will be important for him.”

Hawgdriver
11-25-2017, 10:09 PM
this is all there was in the article. . .

Tall...and strong.

BroncoTech
11-25-2017, 10:10 PM
The video brought up a point that I was thinking about lately. Under Peyton, we ran the no-huddle a lot, by the time we reached the red zone the defense was gassed. Not only at home but on the road. It seems to me we could script 10 no-huddle pays for our first possesion and possibly beyond.

topscribe
11-25-2017, 10:14 PM
The video brought up a point that I was thinking about lately. Under Peyton, we ran the no-huddle a lot, by the time we reached the red zone the defense was gassed. Not only at home but on the road. It seems to me we could script 10 no-huddle pays for our first possesion and possibly beyond.
To be honest, I never really thought of that. But neither apparently did the coaching staff.
And it's their job, not mine.

NightTrainLayne
11-25-2017, 10:58 PM
The video brought up a point that I was thinking about lately. Under Peyton, we ran the no-huddle a lot, by the time we reached the red zone the defense was gassed. Not only at home but on the road. It seems to me we could script 10 no-huddle pays for our first possesion and possibly beyond.

I've wondered for virtually all of my adult life why we don't do some kind of no-huddle offense at home especially. Take advantage of our advantages. #nooxygen

dogfish
11-25-2017, 11:05 PM
Tall...and strong.

plus, he is very tall!

dogfish
11-25-2017, 11:08 PM
I've wondered for virtually all of my adult life why we don't do some kind of no-huddle offense at home especially. Take advantage of our advantages. #nooxygen

it kills me that we don't but sadly, we lack the personnel to execute it consistently. . . when you don't have a QB, and you change your OC every year or two, you really don't have the same ability to jump into the no-huddle at will. . . the teams that do it best all have good QBs, who have been in place for a while. . .

granted, i still kinda think we should do it anyway-- we suck at regular offense, too. . . but i highly doubt they're thinking about anything like that with lynch-- you need a smart QB to be effective in the no-huddle. . .

topscribe
11-25-2017, 11:53 PM
it kills me that we don't but sadly, we lack the personnel to execute it consistently. . . when you don't have a QB, and you change your OC every year or two, you really don't have the same ability to jump into the no-huddle at will. . . the teams that do it best all have good QBs, who have been in place for a while. . .

granted, i still kinda think we should do it anyway-- we suck at regular offense, too. . . but i highly doubt they're thinking about anything like that with lynch-- you need a smart QB to be effective in the no-huddle. . .
So now Paxton is dumb? He was praised by his college coach for his intelligence (https://www.si.com/college-football/2015/10/28/memphis-qb-paxton-lynch-has-risen-obscurity-stardom-tigers). I just think
some people here are not giving him much of a chance. I'm glad those people aren't making
the decisions.

DT88TheGreat
11-25-2017, 11:56 PM
So now Paxton is dumb? He was praised by his college coach for his intelligence (https://www.si.com/college-football/2015/10/28/memphis-qb-paxton-lynch-has-risen-obscurity-stardom-tigers). I just think
some people here are not giving him much of a chance. I'm glad those people aren't making
the decisions.

It's just amazing the hate this kid gets. For no reason.

DT88TheGreat
11-26-2017, 12:00 AM
Not even hate from other teams fan's but his own team fans... Paxton doesn't have no following like Tebow who brung the whole darn gator nation as the Denver tebows so using that excuse is lame. There wasn't hundreds of Paxton crazy fans flooding Broncos message board's like Tebow. Paxton won't have a billboard up demanding he's the starter smh. This kid was drafted too be our franchise quarterback and just gets crapped on by Broncos fans.

Northman
11-26-2017, 07:57 AM
I promise if you leave the board DT88 i will give him a chance. Deal?

Broncoknight30
11-26-2017, 08:57 AM
You are mis leading people. He said much more.about lynch. He knows he has some talent toI work with.

I did not see much other than tallness. Could have missed other stuff.

The facts remain that he has not impressed in TC. Not in either year and two coaching staffs.

My personal hope is they design a system like the Joe Tiller basketball on grass similar to what the Pats run. Out of shotgun. Imo, that is his best shot.

DT88TheGreat
11-26-2017, 04:24 PM
I did not see much other than tallness. Could have missed other stuff.

The facts remain that he has not impressed in TC. Not in either year and two coaching staffs.

My personal hope is they design a system like the Joe Tiller basketball on grass similar to what the Pats run. Out of shotgun. Imo, that is his best shot.

You stopped reading after the first 3 word's....

aberdien
11-26-2017, 05:44 PM
He is doing a bang up job today.

topscribe
11-26-2017, 06:08 PM
It's just amazing the hate this kid gets. For no reason.
Well, I do wish Paxton could be a little more accurate. Perhaps he should spend the entire offseason throwing the ball through a tire . . .

Hawgdriver
11-26-2017, 06:25 PM
I'm seeing the tallness they talk about.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-26-2017, 06:41 PM
When this team discovers the forward pass, look out.

BigDaddyBronco
11-27-2017, 01:11 PM
So now Paxton is dumb? He was praised by his college coach for his intelligence (https://www.si.com/college-football/2015/10/28/memphis-qb-paxton-lynch-has-risen-obscurity-stardom-tigers). I just think
some people here are not giving him much of a chance. I'm glad those people aren't making
the decisions.

Name me a college coach who would say, "Yea, he isn't the brightest tool in the shed, but at least he is coachable." Fact is they had to dumb down the offense for him.

Dreadnought
11-27-2017, 01:57 PM
it kills me that we don't but sadly, we lack the personnel to execute it consistently. . . when you don't have a QB, and you change your OC every year or two, you really don't have the same ability to jump into the no-huddle at will. . . the teams that do it best all have good QBs, who have been in place for a while. . .

granted, i still kinda think we should do it anyway-- we suck at regular offense, too. . . but i highly doubt they're thinking about anything like that with lynch-- you need a smart QB to be effective in the no-huddle. . .

I think Tebow ran a decent no-huddle of all things. This allowed him top play entirely intinctively and not try to think his way through actual plays. The results could be....bizarre, but he did pull off some unlikely late wins

BeefStew25
11-27-2017, 02:02 PM
Remember when he looked off the jets safety?

topscribe
11-27-2017, 02:23 PM
Name me a college coach who would say, "Yea, he isn't the brightest tool in the shed, but at least he is coachable." Fact is they had to dumb down the offense for him.
Did you bother to read the article? The coach wasn't responding to a question. He volunteered
that and pointed it out specifically. But if you really want to believe Paxton is a dumbo, then
go right ahead if it makes you feel better.

Mike
11-27-2017, 03:36 PM
Did you bother to read the article? The coach wasn't responding to a question. He volunteered
that and pointed it out specifically. But if you really want to believe Paxton is a dumbo, then
go right ahead if it makes you feel better.

I don't give a shit what his college coach has to say. I doubt he says anything dergatory about one of his former players, that is the point and it is a good one.

I give a crap what I see on the field...and so far it is absolote shit. As awful as I have seen. I have seen nothing to show why he was a #1 pick or why he should be given any other starts. I wanted there to be some glimmer of hope to show that this guy could learn and grow. He has shown no flashes or even modest glimmers to cling to, something to say that there is the potential. I would cut him and his salary at the end of the season.

topscribe
11-27-2017, 05:34 PM
I don't give a shit what his college coach has to say. I doubt he says anything dergatory about one of his former players, that is the point and it is a good one.

I give a crap what I see on the field...and so far it is absolote shit. As awful as I have seen. I have seen nothing to show why he was a #1 pick or why he should be given any other starts. I wanted there to be some glimmer of hope to show that this guy could learn and grow. He has shown no flashes or even modest glimmers to cling to, something to say that there is the potential. I would cut him and his salary at the end of the season.
That's not a part of my discussion. I'm not saying whether Paxton is good or bad as a
quarterback. I have said all along that I have to see more to determine that (even
though even that is unreasonable to some). I only reported what I read and the context
it was in, which leads me to believe the coach really believed that . . . and the coach
knew him better than anyone else at the time.

LawDog
11-28-2017, 01:07 PM
That's not a part of my discussion. I'm not saying whether Paxton is good or bad as a
quarterback. I have said all along that I have to see more to determine that (even
though even that is unreasonable to some). I only reported what I read and the context
it was in, which leads me to believe the coach really believed that . . . and the coach
knew him better than anyone else at the time.

Top, that requires a lot of assumption regarding the coach’s bias - actually a lack of bias. The point is that a coach’s comments regarding a former player are just not going to be negative because that impacts his program and future recruiting. College recruits want a program that will assist them in their dream of making the NFL. A coach who says anything other than positives isn’t going to be seen as a supportive guy.

dogfish
11-28-2017, 01:09 PM
So now Paxton is dumb? He was praised by his college coach for his intelligence (https://www.si.com/college-football/2015/10/28/memphis-qb-paxton-lynch-has-risen-obscurity-stardom-tigers).

my mom says i'm the handsomest guy around. . .

:cool:

Jaws
11-28-2017, 01:15 PM
my mom says i'm the handsomest guy around. . .

:cool:

Not to mention GPA approved back in the golden olden days of the official board ;)

topscribe
11-28-2017, 03:09 PM
Top, that requires a lot of assumption regarding the coach’s bias - actually a lack of bias. The point is that a coach’s comments regarding a former player are just not going to be negative because that impacts his program and future recruiting. College recruits want a program that will assist them in their dream of making the NFL. A coach who says anything other than positives isn’t going to be seen as a supportive guy.
I understand what you're saying. However, even you are being assumptive in saying this.

LawDog
11-28-2017, 03:57 PM
I understand what you're saying. However, even you are being assumptive in saying this.

Give me an example of any D1 coach of any major sport (i.e. one with a professional league) who made derogatory comments about a former athlete who was either in or trying to enter the league. I will wait...

dogfish
11-28-2017, 03:58 PM
Not to mention GPA approved back in the golden olden days of the official board ;)

good times, jawsie!

Canmore
11-28-2017, 04:18 PM
Give me an example of any D1 coach of any major sport (i.e. one with a professional league) who made derogatory comments about a former athlete who was either in or trying to enter the league. I will wait...

Jim Harbaugh didn't have nice things to say about Richard Sherman.

MOtorboat
11-28-2017, 04:22 PM
Jim Harbaugh didn't have nice things to say about Richard Sherman.

Harbaugh isn't exactly an example, more the exception.

topscribe
11-28-2017, 04:23 PM
Give me an example of any D1 coach of any major sport (i.e. one with a professional league) who made derogatory comments about a former athlete who was either in or trying to enter the league. I will wait...
I understand. But is it that important?

Canmore
11-28-2017, 04:24 PM
Harbaugh isn't exactly an example, more the exception.

Just saying.

Broncoknight30
11-28-2017, 05:08 PM
Jim Harbaugh didn't have nice things to say about Richard Sherman.

What did he say about him? Just curious.

MOtorboat
11-28-2017, 05:25 PM
What did he say about him? Just curious.

I don't remember, but at the time Harbaugh was the head coach of the 49ers, not the head coach at Stanford. He's a troll and was just trolling. He does a lot of that at Michigan too.

It's not a good example of a college coach speaking ill of one of his players.

tripp
11-28-2017, 05:36 PM
I hope he's either really great or really awful. Either let us know he's a stud or let him be so bad we don't win another game. I'm afraid we're going to get some middle ground where he shows flashes but we still don't know either way.

When he got injured during the Raiders game, I was so pissed. Not because I thought we lost any chance of winning the game without him, but because now this shit is going to get dragged out until next year. With still no certainty. He would've had 6 games. 6 games to show if he has any kind of potential to be a starting QB in this league. Now we have to wait till next year, and hear the "he hasn't had a real chance" "what if" yada yada yada.

Siemian took over, and scored 2 TD's. All you need to know.

NightTerror218
11-28-2017, 05:38 PM
We are the new browns......select a QB in every draft and miss

MOtorboat
11-28-2017, 05:46 PM
We are the new browns......select a QB in every draft and miss

I don't really think the solution is to stop drafting quarterbacks, but point taken.

NightTerror218
11-28-2017, 06:20 PM
I don't really think the solution is to stop drafting quarterbacks, but point taken.

Crap shoot. But so far Elway is not looking good evaluating QBs. Sucks for lynch but tbh next year would be shot at a top QB

dogfish
11-28-2017, 08:19 PM
john has missed twice on QBs, and neither of them was drafted with a premium pick. . .

come on, don't tell me you're counting the 7th rounders? i know two misses still sucks, but that's life in the NFL. . . we're probably going to have a premium pick next year in a QB-heavy draft, so he'll have a legit opportunity to find "the guy" if that's the route they want to go. . .

Hawgdriver
11-28-2017, 08:45 PM
Here is my hope. Kubiak has been aggressively scouting top QBs. Heard some chatter that this was true a month or two ago. Kubiak has more leverage now in light of Pax not impressing and Siemian overperforming his pick number.

Kubiak hits a home run in 2018 by finding the right guy and Elway stays out of the way.

FanInAZ
11-28-2017, 09:09 PM
We are the new browns......select a QB in every draft and miss

Only if Elway listens to the fan base. He's taken only 2 high round QBs in his 6 years, the 2nd was 4 years after the 1st.

Northman
11-29-2017, 06:14 AM
Crap shoot. But so far Elway is not looking good evaluating QBs. Sucks for lynch but tbh next year would be shot at a top QB

To be fair, drafting in the bottom of the draft for QB's is like scrapping the bottom of the barrell. With a higher draft pick the talent pool moves up significantly.

Mike
11-29-2017, 09:54 AM
john has missed twice on QBs, and neither of them was drafted with a premium pick. . .

come on, don't tell me you're counting the 7th rounders? i know two misses still sucks, but that's life in the NFL. . . we're probably going to have a premium pick next year in a QB-heavy draft, so he'll have a legit opportunity to find "the guy" if that's the route they want to go. . .

I think Siemian was a hit, personally. He has exceeded expectations as a 7th round draft pick and looks to be a pretty decent backup. I am worried that Denver will win a game or two now that he is back in the lineup.

slim
11-29-2017, 10:05 AM
Here is my hope. Kubiak has been aggressively scouting top QBs. Heard some chatter that this was true a month or two ago. Kubiak has more leverage now in light of Pax not impressing and Siemian overperforming his pick number.

Kubiak hits a home run in 2018 by finding the right guy and Elway stays out of the way.

I think Elway recognized the deficiency they have had in the FO with regard to drafting offensive talent. That is why Kubes was brought in and put in charge of that specific area.

Whether or not Kubes excel at it remains to be seen, but #7 gets props from me for identifying the problem and taking steps to correct it.

slim
11-29-2017, 10:06 AM
To be fair, drafting in the bottom of the draft for QB's is like scrapping the bottom of the barrell. With a higher draft pick the talent pool moves up significantly.

But the success rate typically does not. Finding the right guy is just a hard thing to do, for every team.

Canmore
11-30-2017, 05:27 PM
What did he say about him? Just curious.

I don't remember the details. Sherman blames Harbaugh for him being drafted in the fifth round. He felt he should have gone much higher and says that Harbaugh had negative things to say about him prior to the draft iirc.

LawDog
11-30-2017, 07:31 PM
I don't remember the details. Sherman blames Harbaugh for him being drafted in the fifth round. He felt he should have gone much higher and says that Harbaugh had negative things to say about him prior to the draft iirc.

http://thebiglead.com/2014/12/01/cris-collinsworth-richard-sherman-is-still-bitter-jim-harbaugh-didnt-endorse-him-for-nfl-draft/

Sherman thinks that Harbaugh didn't give him a glowing review to NFL scouts... Not like Harbaugh dissed him to the press, or even publicly, and super hard to prove that it even ever happened with scouts.

Broncoknight30
12-01-2017, 05:04 AM
http://thebiglead.com/2014/12/01/cris-collinsworth-richard-sherman-is-still-bitter-jim-harbaugh-didnt-endorse-him-for-nfl-draft/

Sherman thinks that Harbaugh didn't give him a glowing review to NFL scouts... Not like Harbaugh dissed him to the press, or even publicly, and super hard to prove that it even ever happened with scouts.

So there is no real proof that he actually dissed him at all, right?

Tned
12-01-2017, 09:18 AM
But the success rate typically does not. Finding the right guy is just a hard thing to do, for every team.

Well, I was grabbing a list of top 10 QBs before reading this, but it dove tails in nicely. So, based on this list, the odds of hitting are better, but still pretty miserable. Some might disagree with my hit/miss (Bradford for instance, maybe he shouldn't be a miss) and we still have some questions on the young guys, but I think they look good Wentz, Goff, Mariotta, Winston.

Anyway, there are the 27 QBs drafted in the top 10 since 2000 and by my very quick ranking, I show 12 misses or 44% miss/bust rate on top 10 picks and there are a few young guys that might not pan out, so I think in rough terms, we are probably looking at a 50/50 coin toss with top 10 QBs being a success or bust. This list is sorted by games started.

Also, since I used the Pro football reference search function, and dis so very quickly, I think if there were any top 10 QBs that haven't taken a snap in the NFL, they probably aren't in this list.

Hit Eli Manning
Hit Philip Rivers
Hit Carson Palmer
Hit Matt Ryan
Hit Alex Smith
Hit Matthew Stafford
Hit Michael Vick
Hit Cam Newton
Miss Sam Bradford
Miss David Carr
Hit Ryan Tannehill
Miss Joey Harrington
Miss Mark Sanchez
Hit Andrew Luck
Miss Blake Bortles
??? Byron Leftwich
Miss Vince Young
Miss Blaine Gabbert
Hit Jameis Winston
Miss Robert Griffin
Hit?? Marcus Mariota
Hit?? Carson Wentz
Miss JaMarcus Russell
Miss Jake Locker
Miss Matt Leinart
Hit?? Jared Goff
??? Mitch Trubisky

Shazam!
12-01-2017, 09:30 AM
But the success rate typically does not. Finding the right guy is just a hard thing to do, for every team.

Well, I was grabbing a list of top 10 QBs before reading this, but it dove tails in nicely. So, based on this list, the odds of hitting are better, but still pretty miserable. Some might disagree with my hit/miss (Bradford for instance, maybe he shouldn't be a miss) and we still have some questions on the young guys, but I think they look good Wentz, Goff, Mariotta, Winston.

Anyway, there are the 27 QBs drafted in the top 10 since 2000 and by my very quick ranking, I show 12 misses or 44% miss/bust rate on top 10 picks and there are a few young guys that might not pan out, so I think in rough terms, we are probably looking at a 50/50 coin toss with top 10 QBs being a success or bust. This list is sorted by games started.

Also, since I used the Pro football reference search function, and dis so very quickly, I think if there were any top 10 QBs that haven't taken a snap in the NFL, they probably aren't in this list.

Hit Eli Manning
Hit Philip Rivers
Hit Carson Palmer
Hit Matt Ryan
Hit Alex Smith
Hit Matthew Stafford
Hit Michael Vick
Hit Cam Newton
Miss Sam Bradford
Miss David Carr
Hit Ryan Tannehill
Miss Joey Harrington
Miss Mark Sanchez
Hit Andrew Luck
Miss Blake Bortles
??? Byron Leftwich
Miss Vince Young
Miss Blaine Gabbert
Hit Jameis Winston
Miss Robert Griffin
Hit?? Marcus Mariota
Hit?? Carson Wentz
Miss JaMarcus Russell
Miss Jake Locker
Miss Matt Leinart
Hit?? Jared Goff
??? Mitch Trubisky


You couldn't alphabetize it. Lazy ass.

slim
12-01-2017, 10:22 AM
Well, I was grabbing a list of top 10 QBs before reading this, but it dove tails in nicely. So, based on this list, the odds of hitting are better, but still pretty miserable. Some might disagree with my hit/miss (Bradford for instance, maybe he shouldn't be a miss) and we still have some questions on the young guys, but I think they look good Wentz, Goff, Mariotta, Winston.

Anyway, there are the 27 QBs drafted in the top 10 since 2000 and by my very quick ranking, I show 12 misses or 44% miss/bust rate on top 10 picks and there are a few young guys that might not pan out, so I think in rough terms, we are probably looking at a 50/50 coin toss with top 10 QBs being a success or bust. This list is sorted by games started.

Also, since I used the Pro football reference search function, and dis so very quickly, I think if there were any top 10 QBs that haven't taken a snap in the NFL, they probably aren't in this list.

Hit Eli Manning
Hit Philip Rivers
Hit Carson Palmer
Hit Matt Ryan
Hit Alex Smith
Hit Matthew Stafford
Hit Michael Vick
Hit Cam Newton
Miss Sam Bradford
Miss David Carr
Hit Ryan Tannehill
Miss Joey Harrington
Miss Mark Sanchez
Hit Andrew Luck
Miss Blake Bortles
??? Byron Leftwich
Miss Vince Young
Miss Blaine Gabbert
Hit Jameis Winston
Miss Robert Griffin
Hit?? Marcus Mariota
Hit?? Carson Wentz
Miss JaMarcus Russell
Miss Jake Locker
Miss Matt Leinart
Hit?? Jared Goff
??? Mitch Trubisky


50% seems about right.

And not just for QBs, but across all positions.

Broncoknight30
12-01-2017, 10:44 AM
50% seems about right.

And not just for QBs, but across all positions.

Personally, I think Winston blows. Marriota is also a question mark at this point.

Cugel
12-01-2017, 11:20 AM
john has missed twice on QBs, and neither of them was drafted with a premium pick. . .

come on, don't tell me you're counting the 7th rounders? i know two misses still sucks, but that's life in the NFL. . . we're probably going to have a premium pick next year in a QB-heavy draft, so he'll have a legit opportunity to find "the guy" if that's the route they want to go. . .

Of course they are going to think like this: "Hopefully we will never have another top 5 pick in the draft. We can't be sure that Paxton will ever develop. We don't think Trevor will ever be the guy and Brock isn't in our plans. If we don't draft a QB now, where will we be next year and in coming years?"

If they still think "we're a re-boot and not a rebuilding team." I don't see how you can say that about the team.

If there do there are a lot of FAs available:

"We have never seen an off-season FA QB class like this, where Drew Brees is scheduled to become a FA, Kirk Cousins is scheduled to become a FA, Jimmy Garapolo is scheduled to become a FA, Case Keenum is scheduled to be a FA, Sam Bradford is scheduled to become a FA, Teddy Bridgewater is scheduled to become a FA, Alex Smith and Eli Manning will be available in trade. That gives you an idea of the amount of QBs who are out there." -- Adam Schefter.

The problem with the Broncos hiring any of those QBs is that the rest of their team is not ready to win now, since they need about 9 or 10 new starters on offense and defense next year, including RT, RG, DT, RB(2), slot WR, #2 WR, CB, ILB(2), TE, and QB.

What is the point of signing a high priced FA and paying someone like Eli Manning $20M to QB this team to 9 wins or something? Maybe, of course. It could be worse.

A lot of those QBs will actually NOT be available. For instance, will the 49ers really give up a 2nd round pick for Garoppolo and then let him walk next season? No. Will Drew Brees leave NO if they win the NFC title, which they have as good a chance to do as anybody? NO. And especially not if they win the SB which could happen as they are 8-3. Eli could also stay in NY. What if they fire the coach and GM? Possible.

Tned
12-01-2017, 12:45 PM
50% seems about right.

And not just for QBs, but across all positions.

Yep, and I bet it will drop off quite a bit outside top 10 picks.

Broncoknight30
12-01-2017, 01:11 PM
Of course they are going to think like this: "Hopefully we will never have another top 5 pick in the draft. We can't be sure that Paxton will ever develop. We don't think Trevor will ever be the guy and Brock isn't in our plans. If we don't draft a QB now, where will we be next year and in coming years?"

If they still think "we're a re-boot and not a rebuilding team." I don't see how you can say that about the team.

If there do there are a lot of FAs available:

"We have never seen an off-season FA QB class like this, where Drew Brees is scheduled to become a FA, Kirk Cousins is scheduled to become a FA, Jimmy Garapolo is scheduled to become a FA, Case Keenum is scheduled to be a FA, Sam Bradford is scheduled to become a FA, Teddy Bridgewater is scheduled to become a FA, Alex Smith and Eli Manning will be available in trade. That gives you an idea of the amount of QBs who are out there." -- Adam Schefter.

The problem with the Broncos hiring any of those QBs is that the rest of their team is not ready to win now, since they need about 9 or 10 new starters on offense and defense next year, including RT, RG, DT, RB(2), slot WR, #2 WR, CB, ILB(2), TE, and QB.

What is the point of signing a high priced FA and paying someone like Eli Manning $20M to QB this team to 9 wins or something? Maybe, of course. It could be worse.

A lot of those QBs will actually NOT be available. For instance, will the 49ers really give up a 2nd round pick for Garoppolo and then let him walk next season? No. Will Drew Brees leave NO if they win the NFC title, which they have as good a chance to do as anybody? NO. And especially not if they win the SB which could happen as they are 8-3. Eli could also stay in NY. What if they fire the coach and GM? Possible.

Except the Broncos really dont know what they have in Chad Kelly and he might be the reason John goes the FA route.

If a Eli Manning comes in and Chad Kelly is the back up and groomed to take over in 3 years, what then?

Essentially Kelly will have 3 veteran hall of famers preparing him. John, Eli, and his uncle.

Why not that plan?

Tned
12-01-2017, 01:27 PM
Will Indy go after a QB? Cleveland? SF? Giants?

There are a lot of teams with QB problems/questions that potentially could be drafting before the Broncos.

Rick
12-01-2017, 01:30 PM
Except the Broncos really dont know what they have in Chad Kelly and he might be the reason John goes the FA route.

If a Eli Manning comes in and Chad Kelly is the back up and groomed to take over in 3 years, what then?

Essentially Kelly will have 3 veteran hall of famers preparing him. John, Eli, and his uncle.

Why not that plan?

I think I would rather be surprised by Kelly's talent and turn to him after he outplays his draft status and the other QBs on the team than think on him when planning what I do to get a QBotF.

Broncoknight30
12-01-2017, 01:58 PM
I think I would rather be surprised by Kelly's talent and turn to him after he outplays his draft status and the other QBs on the team than think on him when planning what I do to get a QBotF.

If they draft a QB in the first round, Chad Kelly is done here.

Rick
12-01-2017, 02:02 PM
I would say TS and Oz are done here.

If they draft a guy high next year I would expect PL, rookie, Kelly and a good vet to compete.

The real competition would be Kelly vs PL to see who sticks. PL doesn't step out of the shadows he is the one gone and Kelly is third string and they try and move him to PS.

dogfish
12-01-2017, 02:23 PM
i can't see kelly being more than an afterthought in this process. . . 32 teams passed on him six or seven times-- if any evaluator thought he had a halfway legit chance, he would have been drafted much higher, injuries or no. . . i would be extremely surprised if elway was content with trying to capture late round lightning in a bottle again. . . unless we happen to land brees or cousins (unlikely), people need to get comfortable with the idea that we're probably taking a QB with our top pick next year. . . i'm sure they'll at least bring kelly in as a camp arm, and give him a chance to compete for the third spot on the roster-- he is NOT going to be Plan A, though. . . that scenario is not happening. . .

Broncoknight30
12-01-2017, 02:58 PM
i can't see kelly being more than an afterthought in this process. . . 32 teams passed on him six or seven times-- if any evaluator thought he had a halfway legit chance, he would have been drafted much higher, injuries or no. . . i would be extremely surprised if elway was content with trying to capture late round lightning in a bottle again. . . unless we happen to land brees or cousins (unlikely), people need to get comfortable with the idea that we're probably taking a QB with our top pick next year. . . i'm sure they'll at least bring kelly in as a camp arm, and give him a chance to compete for the third spot on the roster-- he is NOT going to be Plan A, though. . . that scenario is not happening. . .

Well, the first round stuff is not working at all either. I know that is a fallacy, but right now they dont even have a veteran that could mentor a rookie. Which is usually what you want.

Besides, the projected first rounders are not impressive. Are they to you?

dogfish
12-01-2017, 03:06 PM
Well, the first round stuff is not working at all either. I know that is a fallacy, but right now they dont even have a veteran that could mentor a rookie. Which is usually what you want.

Besides, the projected first rounders are not impressive. Are they to you?

i don't really watch much college ball. . .

i know QB picks bust all the time-- that's life. . . your odds of getting a star in the lower rounds are even worse, and it's extremely rare to find a legit stud in free agency. . . so what are you gonna do? you keep drafting until you find the guy, unless peyton manning falls in your lap. . . it's not like i enjoy it any more than anyone else, but you can only work with the options that are available. . . either we pay stupid money for mediocre kirk cousins, or we draft one of the top prospects. . . constantly trying to outsmart the league by developing a 7th rounder or UDFA at the most important position in the game is a fool's errand. . . extremely doubtful that JFE tries to go that route again. . .

Tned
12-01-2017, 03:16 PM
I would say TS and Oz are done here.

If they draft a guy high next year I would expect PL, rookie, Kelly and a good vet to compete.

The real competition would be Kelly vs PL to see who sticks. PL doesn't step out of the shadows he is the one gone and Kelly is third string and they try and move him to PS.

I know Siemian doesn't get much love, but the "good vet" here is the big factor. Right now, Siemian is the best QB on the Broncos roster. Not in terms of potential, but in terms of performance on the field. If they bring in a vet, it's going to have to be someone that will be an upgrade over him. Someone who can start and win, not a vet that's on his third or fourth team and struggles whenever in the starting role. There would be no upside in making that change.

Losing Lynch will be a big cap hit and I'm sure they wanted to see these six games to see if they thought he had any future, or they just need to cut their losses.

Rick
12-01-2017, 03:29 PM
I know Siemian doesn't get much love, but the "good vet" here is the big factor. Right now, Siemian is the best QB on the Broncos roster. Not in terms of potential, but in terms of performance on the field. If they bring in a vet, it's going to have to be someone that will be an upgrade over him. Someone who can start and win, not a vet that's on his third or fourth team and struggles whenever in the starting role. There would be no upside in making that change.

Losing Lynch will be a big cap hit and I'm sure they wanted to see these six games to see if they thought he had any future, or they just need to cut their losses.

Exactly, I still feel very strongly that regardless of what happens in the draft, Bradford will be here.

Broncoknight30
12-01-2017, 05:35 PM
Thinking about the situation, I am thinking the best situation would be to get Eli and keep Kelly. Have Kelly work with them and groom the kid. Get 3 seasons out of Eli, put an OL together and see what happens.

I think that scenario would allow Elway to draft a top notch ILB that this team needs.

The scenario of drafting another first round QB bust would too much to take.*

That is more likely to happen if they draft yet another QB in the first round.