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View Full Version : The Playoffs Are Not Out of Reach...



Ground Control
11-18-2017, 11:10 PM
...But, the conversation about next year is real. I'm all for Osweiler laying hurt on his doubters and becoming what Elway thought he might be before he bailed. I liked him bunches in 2015.

If that doesn't happen though, I say we grab a ringer and use the 1rst round pick for the future at the QB position (to develop under said ringer). Or, I'm open to giving Lynch the time everyone said he needs to develop under a Brees or Cousins. I'm fairly certain now that Elway has little talent for making proper choices regarding up and coming QBs though, so let's hope he sticks to his strengths...reputation and deal making. I do think he can make magic happen with known quantities, so let's go there next year.

The current Broncos need an established leader. If it can't be the coaches, then it has to be a ringer at QB. That will give VJ some breathing room to grow into his job and let us see what he can be. Besides, I'm not sure but I don't think there have been any Hall of Fame coaches that didn't have legendary QBs to ride on their path to greatness. The available stock of free agents in 2018 are not long term solutions but they can be answers that will will to those solutions.

Thoughts?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-18-2017, 11:58 PM
I don’t think the playoffs are in reach. I don’t see us winning our last seven. I don’t see us winning four more to be honest.

Tned
11-19-2017, 12:05 AM
...But, the conversation about next year is real. I'm all for Osweiler laying hurt on his doubters and becoming what Elway thought he might be before he bailed. I liked him bunches in 2015.

If that doesn't happen though, I say we grab a ringer and use the 1rst round pick for the future at the QB position (to develop under said ringer). Or, I'm open to giving Lynch the time everyone said he needs to develop under a Brees or Cousins. I'm fairly certain now that Elway has little talent for making proper choices regarding up and coming QBs though, so let's hope he sticks to his strengths...reputation and deal making. I do think he can make magic happen with known quantities, so let's go there next year.

The current Broncos need an established leader. If it can't be the coaches, then it has to be a ringer at QB. That will give VJ some breathing room to grow into his job and let us see what he can be. Besides, I'm not sure but I don't think there have been any Hall of Fame coaches that didn't have legendary QBs to ride on their path to greatness. The available stock of free agents in 2018 are not long term solutions but they can be answers that will will to those solutions.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure the Broncos can swing the 28-30+ million a year it's going to take to sign these guys. They have a linebacker making QB money and lots of other high paid players, and while Elway might pull some financial magic and I have no doubt he would like to sign a QB he thinks can help them win now, I'm not sure the numbers will allow it.

Rick
11-19-2017, 01:09 AM
If they signed Brees then MAYBE Lynch around still be in the picture after some development.

If they signed Cousins that have elected to move on, cousins still has 10 or so years left.

dogfish
11-19-2017, 01:28 AM
i do think the playoffs are pretty effectively out of reach. . . most likely scenario is that we win just enough games to drop us out of easy reach of the top QB prospects. . . we;ll see, there's a lot of football (pro and college) between now and then. . . i don't think brees is leaving new orleans-- and i'm not sure that cousins is financially plausible. . . you'd have to make some significant changes to accommodate that deal, at the very least-- and that's presuming that he doesn't also re-sign where he is before hitting the market. . . i do think he's a more realistic option than easy breezy, but IMO a second-tier vet and another draft pick is our most likely path. . . i don't know that mccoy has much of a track record of developing QBs-- anybody know about musgrave?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-19-2017, 01:45 AM
i do think the playoffs are pretty effectively out of reach. . . most likely scenario is that we win just enough games to drop us out of easy reach of the top QB prospects. . . we;ll see, there's a lot of football (pro and college) between now and then. . . i don't think brees is leaving new orleans-- and i'm not sure that cousins is financially plausible. . . you'd have to make some significant changes to accommodate that deal, at the very least-- and that's presuming that he doesn't also re-sign where he is before hitting the market. . . i do think he's a more realistic option than easy breezy, but IMO a second-tier vet and another draft pick is our most likely path. . . i don't know that mccoy has much of a track record of developing QBs-- anybody know about musgrave?

Musgrave supposedly did a very good job with Carr.

Simple Jaded
11-19-2017, 02:19 AM
Look at Carr without Musgrave.

Cugel
11-19-2017, 05:23 AM
If they signed Brees then MAYBE Lynch around still be in the picture after some development.

If they signed Cousins that have elected to move on, cousins still has 10 or so years left.

Except that they will be developing Paxton to be a backup, rather like the Patriots developed Jimmy Garapolo until he became a tradeable commodity - they got a 2nd round pick for him.

But, more to the point, suppose Tom Brady had shown signs of mortality as he hit 40? Then they promote Garappolo to be their Franchise QB. Since that didn't happen they traded him.

If the Broncos sign either Cousins, or Brees (maybe a 10% chance any of that will happen), then obviously that's a 2-3 year commitment. But, what if it didn't work out after 2 or 3 years? At that point maybe they can cut him or he retires in Brees' case, then they can go to Paxton.

In fact, that is probably the only way Paxton stays on the roster for his entire contract. They may hope to develop him, but some guys can't be "developed" in that way. They never make it no matter how they are coddled.

But, since they are only developing him to become a spot starter (backup) the bar is lower. They could even re-sign him as a backup after his contract expires. Or trade him for something at that point.

Cugel
11-19-2017, 05:24 AM
If they signed Brees then MAYBE Lynch around still be in the picture after some development.

If they signed Cousins that have elected to move on, cousins still has 10 or so years left.

Except that they will be developing Paxton to be a backup, rather like the Patriots developed Jimmy Garapolo until he became a tradeable commodity - they got a 2nd round pick for him.

But, more to the point, supposed Tom Brady had shown signs of mortality as he hit 40? Then they promote Garappolo to be their Franchise QB. Since that didn't happen they traded him.

If the Broncos sign either Cousins, or Brees (maybe a 10% chance any of that will happen), then obviously that's a 2-3 year commitment. But, what if it didn't work out after 2 or 3 years? At that point maybe they can cut him or he retires in Brees' case, then they can go to Paxton.

In fact, that is probably the only way Paxton stays on the roster for his entire contract. They may hope to develop him, but some guys can't be "developed" in that way. They never make it no matter how they are coddled.

But, since they are only developing him to become a spot starter (backup) the bar is lower. They could even re-sign him as a backup after his contract expires. Or trade him for something at that point.

Broncoknight30
11-19-2017, 06:42 AM
I'm not sure the Broncos can swing the 28-30+ million a year it's going to take to sign these guys. They have a linebacker making QB money and lots of other high paid players, and while Elway might pull some financial magic and I have no doubt he would like to sign a QB he thinks can help them win now, I'm not sure the numbers will allow it.

You are right, but then again that is what it takes. You are now the seeing the inherent flaw in the HARD cap. Parity in the NFL is more like a PARODY. It is almost looney tunes if you will.

Financial magic? Come on. I can understand why Elway tries to get the most out of a dollar. The simple fact is ONE PLAYER'S contract (even an elite franchise QB) can really create problems for a franchise.

I have been over this a few times. Yes, it TYPICALLY takes a franchise QB to get it done. Personally, I think a solid defense is more important than a franchise QB. Looking back over the years, yes we see the SBs with the elite names at QB.

Roethlisberger for instance in that SB win against the Seahawks had like a 22 passer rating in that game. The Steelers defense that year was number one in the NFL. Yes, the franchise QB won it, and Roethlisberger was the big reason they beat the Broncos in the AFCCG, but he did not perform all that well in the SB.

Brady's first 3 SBs the Pats defenses were elite. Especially, the one that shut down the greatest show on turf when they held them to under 20 points.

The Eli Manning SBs? Well, that NASCAR DL of the Giants held the greatest offense to that point to 14 points, I would say that was the reason. The other one too also pretty much shut down the Pats offense.

How about the other Manning in SB 50? Do any of us think he was the reason for that win? No, none of us.

What is the point? A franchise QB is important, but the sobering reality is this franchise needs to get very very lucky. Meaning, not only does Elway need to find an elite QB, but needs one that won't bankrupt the franchise which makes it next to impossible to field a championship team.

Look at the highest paid QBs in the NFL and you will see a common theme.

Luck
Brees
Flacco
Stafford
Carr

Flacco got paid after that SB in 2012, and they have been an average team since. They immediately had to get rid of 7 key players to pay him.
Brees (theSaints) is having a good season this year....finally. Brees has a good seaosn every year, but it has been a while since the Saints have made a legit run. They have not been to the play offs and have not made a serious run in a while.
Luck, everyone is saying the Colts are not surrounding him with talent. Wonder why that is.
Stafford? Ok, are the Lions....going to be winning it soon? No, they aren't.

Hell Rodgers is very highly paid, and so is Roethlisberger. When is the last time they actually got to the SB, let alone win it? Roth, 2008 and Rodgers 2010?

In case you were wondering, Brady is the 17th highest paid QB. Interesting how they are able to sign some key FAs each year? Not to mention having a QB that is the best in the NFL every year.

What are the answers? I honestly have no idea.

BroncoWave
11-19-2017, 07:20 AM
This isn't a popular opinion, but I'm more than in favor of letting Brock start the rest of the season and see if he's worth bringing back than throwing in Lynch and hoping by some miracle he isn't awful anymore. Brock is still pretty young himself so it's not like there's no chance he could ever be good.

Broncoknight30
11-19-2017, 07:48 AM
This isn't a popular opinion, but I'm more than in favor of letting Brock start the rest of the season and see if he's worth bringing back than throwing in Lynch and hoping by some miracle he isn't awful anymore. Brock is still pretty young himself so it's not like there's no chance he could ever be good.

Yeah, but to me the problem with that is wishing against what we all know. He has had plenty of chances to prove he is more than what he is. No need feeling sorry for him. His flash in 2015 made his life gravy.

It is time to shove Lynch in there. The only problem I have this whole situation is Mccoy/VJ not developing an offense that clearly fits what he does well. I was pretty confident with Mccoy that he was going to do that, based on what we saw him do with Tebow in 2011. Say what you want, but they scrapped the playbook and made an offense that fit what Tebow did well.

If they are not going to be running a spread offense with Lynch, then this thing is going to be disaster. If they try to have him hand off from under center and then face constant 2nd and 3rd and longs, then we can be assured that it will be a disaster.

Fine, people don't like the spread offense option and think this team does not have the personnel to run it. Well, apparently they don't have the personnel to run the conventinal pro style offense either. No QB on this roster is able to run it.

Of course both Siemian and Lynch both ran that spread offense in college and they both rant it effectively. I mean just what the hell do they have to lose? Just try it.

Northman
11-19-2017, 08:02 AM
Someone has been smoking the happy weed.

Shazam!
11-19-2017, 08:58 AM
Im sure the Bengals, Dolphins and NYJ are saying the same things.

Tned
11-19-2017, 10:56 AM
i do think the playoffs are pretty effectively out of reach. . . most likely scenario is that we win just enough games to drop us out of easy reach of the top QB prospects. . . we;ll see, there's a lot of football (pro and college) between now and then. . . i don't think brees is leaving new orleans-- and i'm not sure that cousins is financially plausible. . . you'd have to make some significant changes to accommodate that deal, at the very least-- and that's presuming that he doesn't also re-sign where he is before hitting the market. . . i do think he's a more realistic option than easy breezy, but IMO a second-tier vet and another draft pick is our most likely path. . . i don't know that mccoy has much of a track record of developing QBs-- anybody know about musgrave?

I sometimes wonder if we give these QB whisperers too much credit. Is it the whisperer or who they are whispering too?

Nomad
11-19-2017, 11:27 AM
Hell yeah....we're still talking about playoffs. BRONCOS are still in it.

Davii
11-19-2017, 11:37 AM
I sometimes wonder if we give these QB whisperers too much credit. Is it the whisperer or who they are whispering too?

Both. Except in cases of guys like Peyton, Drew, Tom, etc there is a perfect storm if you will of good coaching and schemes that mate perfectly with a player's ability, teammates, etc. Look at Alex Smith, always been a good player, but the right coaching, schemes, and surrounding team is making him play great.

Cugel
11-19-2017, 01:18 PM
Hell yeah....we're still talking about playoffs. BRONCOS are still in it.

For another 3 hours. Tick tock! Tick tock! :coffee:

Ground Control
11-23-2017, 09:05 PM
I'm not sure the Broncos can swing the 28-30+ million a year it's going to take to sign these guys. They have a linebacker making QB money and lots of other high paid players, and while Elway might pull some financial magic and I have no doubt he would like to sign a QB he thinks can help them win now, I'm not sure the numbers will allow it.

Maybe not for Cousins, and I'm OK with that. He's a baller but if a guy hopes to be the highest payed player in the league, he should be able to carry an entire team on his back to success. Cousins is not that guy. Maybe Elway can bring him back down to earth in negotiations? Brees might want to stay put but Elway is a powerful presence, and can swing a guy his way. The Broncos have all the correct pieces (at least to a mojo QB, whom will be able to influence decisions) now that McCoy is gone. There will be blood. Anderson and many we love will be gone but that will happen anyway. Room can be made. That's the good side of being a Broncos fan. Excellence is expected. Even if mistakes are made along the way.

slim
11-23-2017, 09:10 PM
I don’t think the playoffs are in reach. I don’t see us winning our last seven. I don’t see us winning four more to be honest.

Didnt the Seahawks make the playoffs once with only 7 wins?

Ground Control
11-23-2017, 09:16 PM
Fair enough. I personally hated the Manning Show in Denver, as he proved himself to be the same guy that killed it all the way to the playoffs in Denver and Indi but chocked when it counted, However, he earned his money by being a man that had the experience and vision to get out of his own way in SB 50. I don't know if any other QB, outside of the elite, could do that. Denver's D won that title and season but even the best D needs to know that a leader has their back.

spikerman
11-23-2017, 09:16 PM
LAC is the best team in the AFCW.

Davii
11-23-2017, 09:23 PM
Didnt the Seahawks make the playoffs once with only 7 wins?

Yep, and promptly beat the Saints in the wildcard round

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-23-2017, 10:10 PM
Didnt the Seahawks make the playoffs once with only 7 wins?

Yeah, but the Seahawks were like, good.

We suck. It will take 10 wins to get a wild card

I think we top our at 5 wins

spikerman
11-23-2017, 10:10 PM
Yeah, but the Seahawks were like, good.

We suck. It will take 10 wins to get a wild card

I think we top our at 5 wins

You’re more optimistic than me.

slim
11-23-2017, 10:12 PM
Yeah, but the Seahawks were like, good.

We suck. It will take 10 wins to get a wild card

I think we top our at 5 wins

Our coach has things under control. We are good.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-23-2017, 10:13 PM
Our coach has things under control. We are good.

I got you. He will summon eagle powers.

Hawgdriver
11-23-2017, 10:14 PM
I got you. He will summon eagle powers.

A vision like his could only be from eagle powers.

FanInAZ
11-24-2017, 01:20 AM
Didnt the Seahawks make the playoffs once with only 7 wins?

Yes, because that's all that was needed to win the NFCW in 2010: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/

In 2014, the Panthers only needed 7 wins & 1 tie to win the NFCS: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/

So the only way a 7 win team makes the playoffs is to be fortunate enough to be in a horrible division. Otherwise, 9 wins is the bear minimum to have an outside of making it in as a WC if the tie breakers work to your favorite. If that’s the case this year, then we’re still in it by the skin of our teeth. However, I think it will take at least 10 to have a shot at the AFC’s 6th seed this year. If so, we’re done.

Cugel
11-25-2017, 02:38 AM
I got you. He will summon eagle powers.

Eagle powers?

11475

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-25-2017, 03:01 AM
Eagle powers?

11475

No, Eagle Powers

11476

WARHORSE
11-25-2017, 04:03 AM
No, Eagle Powers

11476

Eagle powers dont work in Colorado guys. I thought you knew that...... smh

DT88TheGreat
11-25-2017, 12:23 PM
The playoffs are out of reach and out of sight.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-25-2017, 04:30 PM
Eagle powers dont work in Colorado guys. I thought you knew that...... smh

Those eggs were a lie.

DT88TheGreat
11-25-2017, 05:17 PM
You are right, but then again that is what it takes. You are now the seeing the inherent flaw in the HARD cap. Parity in the NFL is more like a PARODY. It is almost looney tunes if you will.

Financial magic? Come on. I can understand why Elway tries to get the most out of a dollar. The simple fact is ONE PLAYER'S contract (even an elite franchise QB) can really create problems for a franchise.

I have been over this a few times. Yes, it TYPICALLY takes a franchise QB to get it done. Personally, I think a solid defense is more important than a franchise QB. Looking back over the years, yes we see the SBs with the elite names at QB.

Roethlisberger for instance in that SB win against the Seahawks had like a 22 passer rating in that game. The Steelers defense that year was number one in the NFL. Yes, the franchise QB won it, and Roethlisberger was the big reason they beat the Broncos in the AFCCG, but he did not perform all that well in the SB.

Brady's first 3 SBs the Pats defenses were elite. Especially, the one that shut down the greatest show on turf when they held them to under 20 points.

The Eli Manning SBs? Well, that NASCAR DL of the Giants held the greatest offense to that point to 14 points, I would say that was the reason. The other one too also pretty much shut down the Pats offense.

How about the other Manning in SB 50? Do any of us think he was the reason for that win? No, none of us.

What is the point? A franchise QB is important, but the sobering reality is this franchise needs to get very very lucky. Meaning, not only does Elway need to find an elite QB, but needs one that won't bankrupt the franchise which makes it next to impossible to field a championship team.

Look at the highest paid QBs in the NFL and you will see a common theme.

Luck
Brees
Flacco
Stafford
Carr

Flacco got paid after that SB in 2012, and they have been an average team since. They immediately had to get rid of 7 key players to pay him.
Brees (theSaints) is having a good season this year....finally. Brees has a good seaosn every year, but it has been a while since the Saints have made a legit run. They have not been to the play offs and have not made a serious run in a while.
Luck, everyone is saying the Colts are not surrounding him with talent. Wonder why that is.
Stafford? Ok, are the Lions....going to be winning it soon? No, they aren't.

Hell Rodgers is very highly paid, and so is Roethlisberger. When is the last time they actually got to the SB, let alone win it? Roth, 2008 and Rodgers 2010?

In case you were wondering, Brady is the 17th highest paid QB. Interesting how they are able to sign some key FAs each year? Not to mention having a QB that is the best in the NFL every year.

What are the answers? I honestly have no idea.

You have to win.the afcg to have a chance to win a SB. So big ben is one of the reasons they won the chip. At the end up the day most teams are going too want the quarterback. I want the quarterback. Once you have established a defense like we have even if some guys end up leaving you just need to be drafting and developing well behind them. With a quarterback you are pretty much in the mix every year as long as you have at minimum a decent team around him. The lions have sucked, the ravens have sucked, the saints have sucked and the colts have sucked legendary.if any of those guys not named flacco was on the Broncos after manning was finished as a quarterback and we'd.be done win another ring or two. Guaranteed