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DT88TheGreat
11-07-2017, 08:33 PM
Would you give up a 4th round pick for Eli Manning this off season? I don't think Eli is finished, I just think his time has come and gone in new York, behind an improved o line next year, having weapons and a run game/ great defense I think we could win a superbowl or two with Eli Manning.

Buff
11-07-2017, 08:56 PM
No. Mods, close and lock thread.

Buff
11-07-2017, 08:58 PM
For real though - he looks washed up. Not adding a ton of value. Could be a better game manager than any of our QBs, but he'd need to take a fraction of what he's making for it to make sense and guys at his age aren't in the business of taking massive pay cuts.

slim
11-07-2017, 09:02 PM
You have terrible ideas.

DT88TheGreat
11-07-2017, 09:03 PM
He will likely be released this off seasonx so his current contract won't matter for us, the giant's o line sucks and he has absolutely zero weapons around him, Eli is still a quarterback that can make play's if he has weapons even though his line is worst than ours. He'd most likely have his last 3 years or so in the league revived, and how awesome would it be to get another manning that everyone thinks is washed up again just for him to come in and win a ship.

I'd give up a 4th and Trevor in a heart beat for manning.

DT88TheGreat
11-07-2017, 09:04 PM
You have terrible ideas.

You have terrible ability to.evaluate a great quarterback being wasted on a pathetic team.

slim
11-07-2017, 09:07 PM
You have terrible ability to.evaluate a great quarterback being wasted on a pathetic team.

You have an obstruction in your mouth

DT88TheGreat
11-07-2017, 09:13 PM
You have an obstruction in your mouth

Post reported for inaccuracy. It's something else entirely.

slim
11-07-2017, 09:17 PM
Post reported for inaccuracy. It's something else entirely.

My bad. That thing confused me.

Timmy!
11-07-2017, 09:37 PM
My bad. That thing confused me.

https://m.popkey.co/9808a6/6j5ek.gif

aberdien
11-07-2017, 10:01 PM
Would you give up a 4th round pick for Eli Manning this off season? I don't think Eli is finished, I just think his time has come and gone in new York, behind an improved o line next year, having weapons and a run game/ great defense I think we could win a superbowl or two with Eli Manning.

You assume we will have an improved o-line, weapons, a run game, and great defense.

Tbolt
11-07-2017, 11:12 PM
If he were available, we could do worse than baby Manning.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-07-2017, 11:49 PM
If he were available, we could do worse than baby Manning.
Indeed

wayninja
11-08-2017, 12:06 AM
Take it to the lounge or clean it up folks.

wayninja
11-08-2017, 12:19 AM
If he were available, we could do worse than baby Manning.

Agreed. A 4th rounder? Sure. What are the chances that you get a a decent return on a QB for a 4th rounder?

I'd take that trade. The giants won't though.

Buff
11-08-2017, 12:37 AM
Eli is making $19.7 million this year, and due to make $22.2 next year and $23.2 the following year. He has a full no-trade clause. It's possible that we'd agree to acquire him on the condition of renegotiating his deal, but I think the most likely scenario would be him getting cut. Even so, it seems like it'd be in 2019 after they draft a QB this offseason and not next season. I don't think there's enough upside there to justify the cost.

topscribe
11-08-2017, 12:43 AM
You have an obstruction in your mouth
Ninja's very first edit!



Post reported for inaccuracy. It's something else entirely.



My bad. That thing confused me.


https://m.popkey.co/9808a6/6j5ek.gif
You're on a roll now! :D

wayninja
11-08-2017, 12:43 AM
Earning popularity wherever I range!

topscribe
11-08-2017, 12:46 AM
Earning popularity wherever I range!
No problem. There's nothing you can do to make me hate you . . .







. . . more . . .

wayninja
11-08-2017, 12:54 AM
Another successful social interaction for the ninja!

wayninja
11-08-2017, 12:56 AM
Eli is making $19.7 million this year, and due to make $22.2 next year and $23.2 the following year. He has a full no-trade clause. It's possible that we'd agree to acquire him on the condition of renegotiating his deal, but I think the most likely scenario would be him getting cut. Even so, it seems like it'd be in 2019 after they draft a QB this offseason and not next season. I don't think there's enough upside there to justify the cost.

That's a good point, I didn't really think about the cost.

Still, I'm not convinced we will sniff a better QB in 2018 if that's even a possibility. I would seriously consider it.

Timmy!
11-08-2017, 02:15 AM
Take it to the lounge or clean it up folks.

You cant make us!&#&!!@@@++

Shazam!
11-08-2017, 05:17 AM
Eli looks awful because the only OLine worse than the NYG is Denver.

Not even close to Peyton.

Northman
11-08-2017, 05:42 AM
Pass.

This would scream desperation and only conclude that Denver as a franchise cant find or groom a franchise QB. At some point the FO and ompany need to go and prove they can actually build a dynasty without plugging up the holes with has beens. Patchwork teams only get you so far.

chazoe60
11-08-2017, 08:35 AM
Andrew Luck is the answer. Elway should do whatever it takes to have his fellow Stanford alumni as the Denver Broncos starting QB next season, whatever it takes!

Shazam!
11-08-2017, 09:04 AM
Andrew Luck is the answer. Elway should do whatever it takes to have his fellow Stanford alumni as the Denver Broncos starting QB next season, whatever it takes!

You're not concerned with his shoulder injury?

chazoe60
11-08-2017, 09:14 AM
You're not concerned with his shoulder injury?

No. It's all in his head. ;)

Cugel
11-08-2017, 09:50 AM
Agreed. A 4th rounder? Sure. What are the chances that you get a a decent return on a QB for a 4th rounder?

I'd take that trade. The giants won't though.

The Giants would want more than Eli is worth. At least a 2nd round pick. Elway would have to commit to paying Eli $20+ million too. Are the Broncos 1 QB away from a SB? Maybe not.

The Broncos are going to get a top 10 pick, and they can trade that to get up to #3 or so and get an elite QB prospect. Then they can rebuild. That's what teams that lose a Hall of Fame QB like Peyton and then have several QB picks flat-line. It's pretty clear that the defense is no longer going to be able to carry the team. They don't have DeMarcus Ware or Malik Jackson or Danny Trevathan (who could actually cover a TE) on this team.

They tried to sign Calais Campbell for that very reason during the off-season but he got $15M a year from Jacksonville. Oh, btw, Calais has 11 sacks on the season for the Jaguars who have quietly assembled a better defense than the Broncos - including Malik Jackson.

Cugel
11-08-2017, 09:55 AM
Quote Originally Posted by chazoe60 View Post
Andrew Luck is the answer. Elway should do whatever it takes to have his fellow Stanford alumni as the Denver Broncos starting QB next season, whatever it takes!


Lol! :laugh: It's easy to say "whatever it takes!" but impossible to do it. Why would Jim Irsay trade Luck to the Broncos? The chances are less than zero!

First, the Colts are not trading Luck. Second, if the Colts were to trade Luck they would certainly not trade him to the Broncos. Irsay was humiliated because they let Peyton go in FA, and then watched Peyton win 13, 13, 12, and 12 games the next 4 seasons and take the Broncos to 2 SBs, and win one. Meanwhile the Colts have stagnated with Luck because they can't build anything around him, because they are the Colts.

For the same reason you would WANT Andrew Luck on the Broncos, that is why they would never trade him.

Oh, and did I mention they are NOT trading Andrew Luck. Not interested in a trade. Not going to happen. There is nothing the Broncos can do to get him. It's not worth bothering about. And certainly not arguing about on fan forums.

Cugel
11-08-2017, 10:02 AM
Pass.

This would scream desperation and only conclude that Denver as a franchise cant find or groom a franchise QB. At some point the FO and ompany need to go and prove they can actually build a dynasty without plugging up the holes with has beens. Patchwork teams only get you so far.

The idea would be that you have a SB caliber defense and need a veteran QB who is ready to lead the team to a SB right now, and not in 3 years when some rookie has had time to develop.

Only, DO the Broncos have a SB caliber defense any more? They played well enough through the first 7 games, but got crucified in Philly. At some point you are what you are, no excuses.

They do not have a dynamic pass rush outside of Von Miller. They have good but not great Safeties, and their inside LBs are unable to cover TEs or shifty pass receivers over the middle. We saw that in Philly too.

Oh, and on offense they have DT and Sanders and nothing else. The OL sucks. No Denver RB has played well this year, so they need a good RB. No 3rd WR. The TEs are garbage although they have Jake Butt coming off IR next year, so hopefully that will get better.

But, Denver is about 5 to 8 starters, including QB away from a SB. That is not going to be fixed in one season probably. And it's looking like letting Wade Phillips go was a mistake too. Joe Woods is not getting those players to play the way they did under Wade. And Chris Harris just said publicly that they miss TJ Ward on defense.

On top of that, VJ is looking clueless, the offense is terrible under Mike McCoy, so the coaching staff is suspect too. If the team goes 5-11, which is looking increasingly likely, does VJ survive to a 2nd season? Probably, but he will certainly be on the hot seat and will be fired if they fail to make the playoffs again.

In all this, does it make sense to pretend you have a SB team if only you can get an elite QB? Maybe. But, it's unlikely to work even if you get him. There are a lot more holes on this team than they thought.

topscribe
11-08-2017, 10:51 AM
No. It's all in his head. ;)
I was accused of that. I went to the neurologist, and he found the problem. He said that
on the left side there was nothing right, and on the right side there was nothing left.
But they said it was all in my head, anyway . . .

wayninja
11-08-2017, 11:11 AM
Pass.

This would scream desperation and only conclude that Denver as a franchise cant find or groom a franchise QB. At some point the FO and ompany need to go and prove they can actually build a dynasty without plugging up the holes with has beens. Patchwork teams only get you so far.

So... that conclusion isn't accurate?

Dapper Dan
11-08-2017, 12:01 PM
Yes. I’d easily give up a second round pick for Eli. I’d give up a first for Luck. They would be much better than what we have.

Rick
11-09-2017, 10:21 AM
I'd give up maybe 3rd for Eli. I would give up a 1st and more for Luck.

Hawgdriver
11-09-2017, 11:27 AM
I'd give up maybe 3rd for Eli. I would give up a 1st and more for Luck.

I'm fine with the 2 1st and players for Luck. C'mon. It's Andrew ******* Luck. AFL...

Ah FL
Awful.

Ok, nm, hard pass. Can't pass the PFM moniker test.

Buff
11-09-2017, 11:30 AM
"Would you give up a first for Andrew Luck?" is sort of like asking "Would you look at Kate Upton's boobs if she offered to show them to you?"

BeefStew25
11-09-2017, 11:31 AM
If i were luck I’d want to ge somewhere with a good line. He may not have a choice but I’m sure he’s tired of getting blown up.

Buff
11-09-2017, 11:33 AM
Luck ain't goin nowhere. Irsay already saw what happens when you let go of your franchise QB prematurely.

Hawgdriver
11-09-2017, 11:33 AM
"Would you give up a first for Andrew Luck?" is sort of like asking "Would you look at Kate Upton's boobs if she offered to show them to you?"

See here's the thing--I would look.

Oh, I see what you did there.

Figured you wouldn't look, but that's just my projection of your tastes.

Hawgdriver
11-09-2017, 11:37 AM
If i were luck I’d want to ge somewhere with a good line. He may not have a choice but I’m sure he’s tired of getting blown up.

I know MO and a few others love our O-line and praise its theoretic ability to give QBs like Aaron Rodgers a clean pocket and throwing lanes etc., but for the sake of argument, just how bad is the Bronco's line? How far away from being *not* fundamentally broken?

I'm just kidding MO. I know you have no love for anything in this mortal coil.

Cugel
11-09-2017, 11:38 AM
Why does every fan forum discussion go like this:

"John Elway should do whatever it takes to get Andrew Luck!"

"But, there's just ZERO chance the Colts will trade Luck to the Broncos no matter what the offer. Jim Irsay would never do that having watched the Broncos snatch up both Elway and then Peyton Manning and then watching those QBs lead Denver to 3 SBs and two World Championships. He's not going to do that again with Luck, even if he's convinced that Luck is too injured ever to be the guy they hoped. It's just too risky that he would be grinding his teeth in frustration watching Luck hoist the Lombardi Trophy in Denver. Again! For what would be the 4th time."

(Completely ignoring the obvious point): "I wouldn't give up more than a 3rd for Luck! He's not worth it!"

"I would give up a first! He's awesome!"

"No way! At most a 2nd and maybe a later round pick, like a 6th!"

Do you see the disconnect here? You are just ignoring the 600 pound gorilla in the room and arguing over what compensation the Broncos should or would offer!

The 600 pound gorilla in the room is:

1. The Colts are obviously not trading Andrew Luck if there's a ghost of a chance he will recover physically only to see him lead another team to a SB.

2. IF they did decide to trade him, the absolute LAST team in the NFL Jim Irsay would trade him to would be the Broncos. Not after Peyton. No way.

If YOU were Jim Irsay, a fractious billionaire with ego to match, would you do it? No.

Hawgdriver
11-09-2017, 11:40 AM
Cugs, don't you tire of being right all the time? Man that burden would weigh on me at times. You are a better man than I sir to bear that yoke.

Really though, it's nice of you to share the answer key with us.

Rick
11-09-2017, 11:43 AM
Because it is fun to speculate, WTF else do we have to do.

Luck is going nowhere, that doesn't change the fact we want him here! :)

There is a ton of shit I want in this world and my inability to acquire those things doesn't change me wanting them or giving the opinion that I would love to have them.

Cugel
11-09-2017, 11:51 AM
Because it is fun to speculate, WTF else do we have to do.

Luck is going nowhere, that doesn't change the fact we want him here! :)

There is a ton of shit I want in this world and my inability to acquire those things doesn't change me wanting them or giving the opinion that I would love to have them.

Now THAT opinion I can respect! (No sarcasm).

It's pointless, and I prefer to speculate over things that have a chance of happening, but feel free to launch fantasies if that makes you feel better.

I just think there are a lot of more realistic things the Broncos can do to get back to the SB.

1. Sign a veteran like Eli Manning whose team has said they actually want to "see what they have in Davis Webb," their 3rd round pick in 2017"and have Eli do here what he has already done twice before. That might be possible. Or Kirk Cousins. The Redskins GM doesn't even know his name and referred to him in public as "Kurt Cousins." They gave him an insulting offer well below market value and told him that he wasn't proven enough yet to commit a long-term deal to him.

2. Draft a top 5 elite QB prospect and develop him.

Now neither of those guys may be available, but it is at least POSSIBLE they would be because of the situations with their teams. And frankly, either might be better than Luck because they are healthier. We don't know that Luck is never going to be the guy he was because of recurring injury from all the hits he's taken, but he might be.

Cugel
11-09-2017, 11:58 AM
Cugs, don't you tire of being right all the time? Man that burden would weigh on me at times. You are a better man than I sir to bear that yoke.

Really though, it's nice of you to share the answer key with us.

Dude. The NFL works a certain way and if you pay attention you see how it works. Sorry if my noticing obvious things like "1st round QBs all start for their teams, and 7th rounders almost never do" bothers you because my pointing out that said obvious point is obvious makes me "a know it all."

Hawgdriver
11-09-2017, 12:16 PM
Dude. The NFL works a certain way and if you pay attention you see how it works. Sorry if my noticing obvious things like "1st round QBs all start for their teams, and 7th rounders almost never do" bothers you because my pointing out that said obvious point is obvious makes me "a know it all."

Data doesn't bother me. Condescension does.

I like you personally Cugs. Just not the verbose erudition you lay down like so many cow patties.

Shazam!
11-09-2017, 06:08 PM
If i were luck I’d want to ge somewhere with a good line. He may not have a choice but I’m sure he’s tired of getting blown up.

I know MO and a few others love our O-line and praise its theoretic ability to give QBs like Aaron Rodgers a clean pocket and throwing lanes etc., but for the sake of argument, just how bad is the Bronco's line? How far away from being *not* fundamentally broken?

I'm just kidding MO. I know you have no love for anything in this mortal coil.

The Broncos are a very dangerous rushing offense according to Mo.

Hawgdriver
11-09-2017, 06:16 PM
The Broncos are a very dangerous rushing offense according to Mo.

The numbers aren't that bad though, are they? In terms of YPC. Had some fumbles, that's killer. But the rushing offense has been an improvement over last year, hasn't it?

This one is an head scratcher for me, why the team isn't doing better when the rushing offense seems fair on a per-play basis. Might even say it's..

puzzling

BroncoJoe
11-09-2017, 06:37 PM
The numbers aren't that bad though, are they? In terms of YPC. Had some fumbles, that's killer. But the rushing offense has been an improvement over last year, hasn't it?

This one is an head scratcher for me, why the team isn't doing better when the rushing offense seems fair on a per-play basis. Might even say it's..

puzzling

Every big play seems to get called back due to a penalty. At least that's what it seems like. Broncos aren't good at 3rd and long.

Rick
11-09-2017, 06:41 PM
They don't seem to be very good at any of the other downs either lol.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-09-2017, 06:47 PM
The numbers aren't that bad though, are they? In terms of YPC. Had some fumbles, that's killer. But the rushing offense has been an improvement over last year, hasn't it?

This one is an head scratcher for me, why the team isn't doing better when the rushing offense seems fair on a per-play basis. Might even say it's..

puzzling

I believe in the last month teams have been loading the box to stop the run, and we haven’t been able to capitalize in the passing game

Hawgdriver
11-09-2017, 07:05 PM
I believe in the last month teams have been loading the box to stop the run, and we haven’t been able to capitalize in the passing game

Yeah, but even with that, what are they?

Lemme consult PFR.

14th in league in Y/A. With all that crap production on passing downs. That's enough to generate better than a 3-5 record with a killer D. Turnovers are a significant issue. It's genuinely weird man. I'm looking at McCoy and thinking 'wth man?'

Cugel
11-09-2017, 07:57 PM
Data doesn't bother me. Condescension does.

I like you personally Cugs. Just not the verbose erudition you lay down like so many cow patties.

11405

Like your house you mean? :laugh:

Cugel
11-09-2017, 07:59 PM
Every big play seems to get called back due to a penalty. At least that's what it seems like. Broncos aren't good at 3rd and long.

Yup. Or 2nd and long or 3rd and short. Or in the red zone, or on special teams.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-09-2017, 08:01 PM
Yup. Or 2nd and long or 3rd and short. Or in the red zone, or on special teams.

1st and 10 too.

DT88TheGreat
11-10-2017, 08:41 PM
Yes. I’d easily give up a second round pick for Eli. I’d give up a first for Luck. They would be much better than what we have.

I'd give up at least a 3rd for Eli Manning, I don't see why NY will keep him around rotting his last year's away on that team, I think he'd do great in Denver with our supportingcast.

For those who think it screams desperation then oh well? If you can add a top 15 quarterback to a team that just needs competent quarterback play, a proven play maker like Eli manning then you gotta do it. Lynch and Kelly will still be here waiting in the wing's but we instantly become SB contenders again with Eli and this defense.

Shazam!
11-29-2017, 06:15 AM
Reports here in NY are Eli is very angry about being benched and he will surely request a trade during the off-season and void his no trade clause. Denver and Jax are the destinations being talked about here.

ShaneFalco
11-29-2017, 06:16 AM
good sign eli, dont draft a bust qb in the top 5.

and draft o line instead

Shazam!
11-29-2017, 08:36 AM
good sign eli, dont draft a bust qb in the top 5.

and draft o line instead

He would def be an upgrade, and he had little help with his offense very similar to Denver. He can't do it alone and Elway would have to have two or three definite Wins in the Draft or the off-season on the Line, at mainly another T (assuming Bolles continues to grow), TE and WR.

Fire Joseph. Replace with... idk yet lol

Trade DT (Chicago? Miami?) and Siemien (yes, there will be suitors). Release Lynch. Draft a QB to groom under Eli. See what Kelly can do.

ShaneFalco
11-29-2017, 09:04 AM
He would def be an upgrade, and he had little help with his offense very similar to Denver. He can't do it alone and Elway would have to have two or three definite Wins in the Draft or the off-season on the Line, at mainly another T (assuming Bolles continues to grow), TE and WR.

Fire Joseph. Replace with... idk yet lol

Trade DT (Chicago? Miami?) and Siemien (yes, there will be suitors). Release Lynch. Draft a QB to groom under Eli. See what Kelly can do.

yup.

I would get Eli, go after a Tackle and Guard with 1st and 2nd rounder.

Have Ole Miss QB Eli, help develop Ole Miss QB Kelly for the future, when he is done playing, start Kelly.

I would keep Siemian as backup. Lynch keep on the PS.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 09:48 AM
Luck ain't goin nowhere. Irsay already saw what happens when you let go of your franchise QB prematurely.

You overestimate the sanity of that coke head...

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 09:49 AM
Reports here in NY are Eli is very angry about being benched and he will surely request a trade during the off-season and void his no trade clause. Denver and Jax are the destinations being talked about here.

Jacksonville seems far, far more likely to me. They've got the cap space and Tom Coughlin.

If he were to end up here and we could re-work his contract, I'd be all for it honestly. Eli isn't the problem in New York.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 09:50 AM
Yup. Or 2nd and long or 3rd and short. Or in the red zone, or on special teams.

You forgot first and 10...

HORSEPOWER 56
11-29-2017, 10:06 AM
Jacksonville seems far, far more likely to me. They've got the cap space and Tom Coughlin.

If he were to end up here and we could re-work his contract, I'd be all for it honestly. Eli isn't the problem in New York.

With all the huge FA moves they’ve made lately along with all the top 10 picks on their roster, I’m shocked they have much cap room left. 2 years in a row they bought the top DL free agent and this past year they bought the top CB FA. They just got 2 relatively expensive FA safeties, too. They are also paying a top 5 draft pick QB, CB, and RB. I know they had a ton of cap before all that but damn. They spent a shitload to try to do what Denver did to win a Super Bowl.

Rick
11-29-2017, 10:11 AM
They are going to be in the same boat as Denver in a few years too, once pay day comes for the high picks on defense.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 10:14 AM
With all the huge FA moves they’ve made lately along with all the top 10 picks on their roster, I’m shocked they have much cap room left. 2 years in a row they bought the top DL free agent and this past year they bought the top CB FA. They just got 2 relatively expensive FA safeties, too. They are also paying a top 5 draft pick QB, CB, and RB. I know they had a ton of cap before all that but damn. They spent a shitload to try to do what Denver did to win a Super Bowl.

Upon further review, they have about the same cap space we do (30M) but less key players on expiring contracts. I still think they are more likely because they are basically a QB away from SB contenders and Tom Coughlin is there.

We sadly need a lot more than just a QB.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 10:20 AM
They are going to be in the same boat as Denver in a few years too, once pay day comes for the high picks on defense.

Yea, they are buying a short tern window. Which is why an established vet rental makes sense (just like it did with Peyton for us) If they land him, I see him getting at least one more superbowl before he retires.

Buff
11-29-2017, 10:42 AM
You overestimate the sanity of that coke head...

He's off the coke now, that's the problem.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 10:56 AM
He's off the coke now, that's the problem.

Oh, but the offseason partying is coming, fear not, he shall return.

Cugel
11-29-2017, 11:04 AM
Would you give up a 4th round pick for Eli Manning this off season? I don't think Eli is finished, I just think his time has come and gone in new York, behind an improved o line next year, having weapons and a run game/ great defense I think we could win a superbowl or two with Eli Manning.

Obviously he's not coming here for 2 reasons:

1. Eli wants to go to Jacksonville and be reunited with Tom Coughlin whom he won two SBs with.

2. The Broncos are not a competitive team, so even if Eli comes here they aren't going to win any SBs next year. SO, what's the point of hiring him?

The Broncos need:

1. An elite QB, yes, but also:

2. A TE. They haven't had one since Julius Thomas. Maybe Butt, but he's a rookie and what if he's not great?

3. Slot WR who creates mismatches and demands double teams in the red zone. They haven't had one since Wes Welker.

4. RT (obviously)

5. RG (or left LG if for some insane reason they leave Ron Leary at RG).

6. A #2 WR - since they are trying to trade Demaryius Thomas they will have to move Sanders to #1 WR and get another WR to take Sanders' place.

So, SIX new starters on Offense.

But the defense is great, right? NO.

On defense they need:

7. a Penetrating DT so teams can't just double team Von, which they haven't had since Malik Jackson.

9. 2 ILBs who can cover TEs or RBs over the middle. They haven't had that since Danny Trevathan.

10. A #2 CB, because obviously Aqib Talib won't be back at $12M, and he is not going to take a pay-cut. They can move Chris Harris into the #1 CB spot, and Bradley Roby into the #2 spot, but Roby is a decent nickel back and that might be his best role, so they could use a #2 CB.

Is a team that finishes the season at 5-11 ready to compete for a SB in 2018 if they just get a quality QB? No.

This is a 2 or 3 year rebuilding plan. And it starts from SCRATCH. With a top 5 QB, who will take 2 or 3 years to develop.

So, Eli makes no sense, and he probably doesn't want to come here.

11. RBs. I forgot to add 1 or 2 new RBs. CJ is making $4 M and isn't great and they don't have a really good RB on the roster.

Cugel
11-29-2017, 11:08 AM
Yea, they are buying a short tern window. Which is why an established vet rental makes sense (just like it did with Peyton for us) If they land him, I see him getting at least one more superbowl before he retires.

They still have to get past the Patriots and Steelers. The Jaguars have won 1 playoff game in their history, and every Broncos fan remembers that fiasco. A LONG time ago.

So, it's a leap to see them winning any SBs. Possible, yes. But not likely.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 11:27 AM
They still have to get past the Patriots and Steelers. The Jaguars have won 1 playoff game in their history, and every Broncos fan remembers that fiasco. A LONG time ago.

So, it's a leap to see them winning any SBs. Possible, yes. But not likely.

Their defense might actually be better than ours was in 2015. It is hard to discount that fact.

Davii
11-29-2017, 11:30 AM
Obviously he's not coming here for 2 reasons:

1. Eli wants to go to Jacksonville and be reunited with Tom Coughlin whom he won two SBs with.


You have a link with Eli's thoughts on this? I figure he might be inclined to maybe play for the same organization that brought his brother another SB and the greatest season a QB has had.

I also think we're a lot closer to being competitive. The parity in the NFL means we can go from 4-12 to being SB contenders in two years, in the SB in three, and winning one in 4. Then go from winning a SB to bottom of the barrel in two years.

Kind of crazy, but there's absolutely no reason this team can't get back on track and be a contender next year. We still have a top 5 defense in every statistical category, and they'd be number 1 in most everything if the offense and special teams didn't screw them over constantly. Fix the offense, fix the special teams, and this team is right back in the thick of everything.

Davii
11-29-2017, 11:31 AM
Their defense might actually be better than ours was in 2015. It is hard to discount that fact.

No, they're not. They have an entire team playing well, the defense is not completely, 100% carrying the load for everything week in and out. What our D did in 2015 is almost unbelievable. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't watched it.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 11:44 AM
I also think we're a lot closer to being competitive. The parity in the NFL means we can go from 4-12 to being SB contenders in two years, in the SB in three, and winning one in 4. Then go from winning a SB to bottom of the barrel in two years.


Have you watched the Jaguars play this year? The own the number 1 overall defense, the number 1 passing defense, they have the leagues top rushing attack. I mean, they've got 41 sacks...that's insane, that's almost 4 sacks a game which surpasses our 15 season. 14 interceptions, 11 fumble recovers and a total of 6 defensive touchdowns.

Literally all they lack is a QB and maybe a better WR or two.

I'm sure I'll be called crazy, but they are superbowl contenders now. Eli only increases that competitiveness. I think the Jags are kind of flying under the radar because they've become the browns over the last few decades in the eyes of NFL fans, but they are a legitimate competitive force. If they had a competent QB, they'd be over the top.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 11:56 AM
No, they're not. They have an entire team playing well, the defense is not completely, 100% carrying the load for everything week in and out. What our D did in 2015 is almost unbelievable. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't watched it.

You sure about that Davii? Let's compare 2015 Broncos to 2017 Jaguars.
Total yards
Broncos 283 YPG
Jaguars 281

3rd down %
Broncos 35
Jaguars 34

1st downs allowed per game
Broncos 18.1
Jaguars 16.1

Fumbles caused
Broncos 27
Jaguars 21 (with games still left in the season)

Passing
Yards per game
Broncos 199.6 YPG
Jaguars 168.7 YPG

Sacks
Broncos 52
Jaguars 41 (again, with 5 games to go. Broncos averaged 3.25 sacks per game, Jaguars have averaged 3.72)

Plays of 20+ yards
Broncos 41
Jaguars 29

Interceptions
Broncos 14
Jaguars 14

TD's off turnovers (only counting pick sixes and fumble recoveries)
Broncos 5
Jaguars 6

Total Points allowed
Broncos 296 (18.5/game)
Jaguars 168 (15.27/game)

I could keep on going, but I've made my point. This Jaguars defense is pretty much better across the board than our 2015 squad. This Jaguars defense is every bit as special as what we had in 15. The only reason people aren't taking more notice of it is because it is the Jaguars and people are used to them being the leagues whipping boy.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 11:59 AM
Besides, I'm not sure where you are getting that the Jaguars have a whole team playing well. Bortles is putting up Trevor Siemian like numbers. Their run game is fantastic sure, but their passing game is crap.

wayninja
11-29-2017, 12:19 PM
You sure about that Davii? Let's compare 2015 Broncos to 2017 Jaguars.
Total yards
Broncos 283 YPG
Jaguars 281

3rd down %
Broncos 35
Jaguars 34

1st downs allowed per game
Broncos 18.1
Jaguars 16.1

Fumbles caused
Broncos 27
Jaguars 21 (with games still left in the season)

Passing
Yards per game
Broncos 199.6 YPG
Jaguars 168.7 YPG

Sacks
Broncos 52
Jaguars 41 (again, with 5 games to go. Broncos averaged 3.25 sacks per game, Jaguars have averaged 3.72)

Plays of 20+ yards
Broncos 41
Jaguars 29

Interceptions
Broncos 14
Jaguars 14

TD's off turnovers (only counting pick sixes and fumble recoveries)
Broncos 5
Jaguars 6

Total Points allowed
Broncos 296 (18.5/game)
Jaguars 168 (15.27/game)

I could keep on going, but I've made my point. This Jaguars defense is pretty much better across the board than our 2015 squad. This Jaguars defense is every bit as special as what we had in 15. The only reason people aren't taking more notice of it is because it is the Jaguars and people are used to them being the leagues whipping boy.

Nice post... Some fairly jarring stats there that I did not expect!

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 12:23 PM
Nice post... Some fairly jarring stats there that I did not expect!

Admittedly I have an advantage in my Jaguars knowledge because I watch them as my side team (My brother's a Jaguars fan so i take an interest in them for his sake) If you weren't watching them regularly it would be pretty easy to miss that they are pretty damn good (and more than a little exciting to watch this year) Bortles will probably ruin their shot at a Superbowl this year due to a costly turnover (which he's been cutting down on lately) but they are a team to watch in the playoffs if he can elevate his play even slightly once the season ends.

Following them on the side has lessened the sting of watching our team wallow in mediocrity this year.

Davii
11-29-2017, 03:19 PM
Have you watched the Jaguars play this year? The own the number 1 overall defense, the number 1 passing defense, they have the leagues top rushing attack. I mean, they've got 41 sacks...that's insane, that's almost 4 sacks a game which surpasses our 15 season. 14 interceptions, 11 fumble recovers and a total of 6 defensive touchdowns.

Literally all they lack is a QB and maybe a better WR or two.

I'm sure I'll be called crazy, but they are superbowl contenders now. Eli only increases that competitiveness. I think the Jags are kind of flying under the radar because they've become the browns over the last few decades in the eyes of NFL fans, but they are a legitimate competitive force. If they had a competent QB, they'd be over the top.

I have watched them. That defense isn't as good as our '15 defense was.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 03:33 PM
I have watched them. That defense isn't as good as our '15 defense was.

Statistics don't agree with you Davii. I guess you could make the "strength of schedule argument" to give the advantage back to the Broncos, but statistically they are better pretty much across the board defensively.

If they aren't "as good" they are damn near close and at least on the same level that our 15 defense was.

slim
11-29-2017, 03:36 PM
Statistics don't agree with you Davii. I guess you could make the "strength of schedule argument" to give the advantage back to the Broncos, but statistically they are better pretty much across the board defensively.

If they aren't "as good" they are damn near close and at least on the same level that our 15 defense was.

Our D was good during the '15 season, but became absolutely dominant in the playoffs. Let's see if Jax can match it.

wayninja
11-29-2017, 03:42 PM
Our D was good during the '15 season, but became absolutely dominant in the playoffs. Let's see if Jax can match it.

Yeah, that's the big question. The '15 defense wasn't what it was because of the regular season, but what it did in the playoffs, agreed.

Davii
11-29-2017, 03:44 PM
Statistics don't agree with you Davii. I guess you could make the "strength of schedule argument" to give the advantage back to the Broncos, but statistically they are better pretty much across the board defensively.

If they aren't "as good" they are damn near close and at least on the same level that our 15 defense was.

Sure, strength of schedule. They also have an offense that at the very least can get out of their own way. Yeah Bortles is playing terrible, but he's better than Manning and Os combined were that year. They have the number one rushing attack in football, and they don't turn the ball over anywhere near at the clip our '15 offense did.

Numbers don't always tell the whole story Frey. Our defense was put in TERRIBLE situations and came through time and time and time again. The Jax defense is good, no doubt, historic? No. They aren't carrying the entire team on the strength of the defense, the defense is the best unit on the team, but it's not doing yeoman's work all on its own. Hit me up when they have 17 interceptions in 8 games and among the worst rushing games in the league.

Until then, this defense has not been tested as that Denver defense was.

slim
11-29-2017, 03:47 PM
Sure, strength of schedule. They also have an offense that at the very least can get out of their own way. Yeah Bortles is playing terrible, but he's better than Manning and Os combined were that year. They have the number one rushing attack in football, and they don't turn the ball over anywhere near at the clip our '15 offense did.

Numbers don't always tell the whole story Frey. Our defense was put in TERRIBLE situations and came through time and time and time again. The Jax defense is good, no doubt, historic? No. They aren't carrying the entire team on the strength of the defense, the defense is the best unit on the team, but it's not doing yeoman's work all on its own. Hit me up when they have 17 interceptions in 8 games and among the worst rushing games in the league.

Until then, this defense has not been tested as that Denver defense was.

Having the number one running attack does wonders for a defense. Just ask Tim Tebow.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 03:49 PM
Our D was good during the '15 season, but became absolutely dominant in the playoffs. Let's see if Jax can match it.

I don't disagree with that statement. Perhaps I should clarify that Jacksonville's defense is as good as 15's regular season defense. It's yet to be seen how they react to the playoffs. I don't see them having the same success we did, because I see Bortles falling apart under pressure.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 03:55 PM
Sure, strength of schedule. They also have an offense that at the very least can get out of their own way. Yeah Bortles is playing terrible, but he's better than Manning and Os combined were that year. They have the number one rushing attack in football, and they don't turn the ball over anywhere near at the clip our '15 offense did.

Numbers don't always tell the whole story Frey. Our defense was put in TERRIBLE situations and came through time and time and time again. The Jax defense is good, no doubt, historic? No. They aren't carrying the entire team on the strength of the defense, the defense is the best unit on the team, but it's not doing yeoman's work all on its own. Hit me up when they have 17 interceptions in 8 games and among the worst rushing games in the league.

Until then, this defense has not been tested as that Denver defense was.

That's a better argument than you originally gave that was essentially "no you're wrong" with no substance. I can agree that you bring up some valid points.

I'll grant you that we put the defense in a lot of bad positions, Jacksonville hasn't done a lot of that, that factors in. They also have a good rushing attack, that helps time of possession and keeps them fresh.

It's still a hell of a good defense and very impressive. If they could land a QB, they have a great chance of being successful going forward. Bortles is trash.

Davii
11-29-2017, 03:58 PM
I don't disagree with that statement. Perhaps I should clarify that Jacksonville's defense is as good as 15's regular season defense. It's yet to be seen how they react to the playoffs. I don't see them having the same success we did, because I see Bortles falling apart under pressure.

Manning's stat line from '15 postseason: 3 games, 51/92, 55.4% comp, 539yds, 5.86y/a, 2td, 1 Int, 2 Fumb, 75.4 rating.

A rushing attack that averaged 3.3 yds per carry, lost a fumble... Was workable, but NOTHING like the Jags attack... That offense helps that defense, ours did everything they could to hand games away and the D kept snatching them back.

Davii
11-29-2017, 03:59 PM
That's a better argument than you originally gave that was essentially "no you're wrong" with no substance. I can agree that you bring up some valid points.

I'll grant you that we put the defense in a lot of bad positions, Jacksonville hasn't done a lot of that, that factors in. They also have a good rushing attack, that helps time of possession and keeps them fresh.

It's still a hell of a good defense and very impressive. If they could land a QB, they have a great chance of being successful going forward. Bortles is trash.

I'm not going to disagree, a good QB would go a long way there... However, see my earlier post about parity etc. Just because they're playing great this year is no guarantee they will next year.

wayninja
11-29-2017, 04:04 PM
I don't think the Jags defense gets penalized because of how shitty our offense was. The jags D are playing very well.

The jury's still out though. If they can't keep this up, or work wonders in the playoffs, then it's not even a debate.

Davii
11-29-2017, 04:11 PM
I don't think the Jags defense gets penalized because of how shitty our offense was. The jags D are playing very well.

The jury's still out though. If they can't keep this up, or work wonders in the playoffs, then it's not even a debate.

They're not penalized, but our defense that year gets extra credit.

Slick
11-29-2017, 04:16 PM
If Jacksonville wins the Superbowl then I think they're right up there. No one except fans of that particular team remembers great defenses that didn't win the trophy at the end of the season.

Freyaka
11-29-2017, 04:28 PM
If Jacksonville wins the Superbowl then I think they're right up there. No one except fans of that particular team remembers great defenses that didn't win the trophy at the end of the season.

Agreed. I don't honestly see them winning, but that's because I don't trust Bortles to not choke.

weazel
11-29-2017, 04:49 PM
If Jacksonville wins the Superbowl then I think they're right up there. No one except fans of that particular team remembers great defenses that didn't win the trophy at the end of the season.

the only thing I think of when someone mentions the Jaguars is Michael Dean Perry

Shazam!
11-29-2017, 05:28 PM
If Jacksonville wins the Superbowl then I think they're right up there. No one except fans of that particular team remembers great defenses that didn't win the trophy at the end of the season.

the only thing I think of when someone mentions the Jaguars is Michael Dean Perry

I hate you for reminding me of that.

We would have been scarred forever if Elway didn't come back and Win. Thank GOD.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-29-2017, 06:10 PM
good sign eli, dont draft a bust qb in the top 5.

and draft o line instead

First pick should always be BPA. John swayed from that philosophy when reached for Lynch.

Davii
11-29-2017, 06:30 PM
Agreed. I don't honestly see them winning, but that's because I don't trust Bortles to not choke.

I was confident we were winning the super bowl even if manning played poorly because that's how good our defense was

Hawgdriver
11-29-2017, 07:07 PM
First pick should always be BPA. John swayed from that philosophy when reached for Lynch.

Lynch had rare attributes. You can understand it.

If you could draft a rhinoceros to play D-line and it was a 10/90 that he'd succeed, but if he succeeded you'd have an elite D for years, maybe you take the risk. Despite the savannah animal's learning curve.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-29-2017, 08:55 PM
Lynch had rare attributes. You can understand it.

If you could draft a rhinoceros to play D-line and it was a 10/90 that he'd succeed, but if he succeeded you'd have an elite D for years, maybe you take the risk. Despite the savannah animal's learning curve.

Your eloquence is astounding good sir.

Cugel
11-29-2017, 10:03 PM
Their defense might actually be better than ours was in 2015. It is hard to discount that fact.

They are giving up fewer points, but Denver's defense was historically great. They scored TDs on defense, they had that kind of swagger that they were going to take the ball away and not just fall down after they caught it, they were going to score a TD.

If Jacksonville does that in the SB, then they will be comparable to the Broncos 2015. I'm not holding my breath either.

That kind of victory happens to 1 team every ten years on average, and never to the same team twice: '85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, and 2015 Broncos. It could happen again this year and not again for another 10, but most likely not. It's just hard to get to the SB without an elite QB. So hard it rarely happens.

DenBronx
11-29-2017, 10:11 PM
I'd rather see us go after Andrew Luck. Maybe swing a 3 team trade that would send Eli to Indy. Think about that, another Manning in Indy so I think the fans would take that a little better if they were going to lose Luck.

Then we get Elways guy, a Stanford player in Andrew Luck whom he wanted years back but didn't have the ammo to get him. It is rumored that Luck is unhappy in Indy so maybe this could happen.

This team should just stay away from drafting a QB and go get a solid veteran. We suck at drafting QBs anyway.

Cugel
11-29-2017, 10:13 PM
You have a link with Eli's thoughts on this? I figure he might be inclined to maybe play for the same organization that brought his brother another SB and the greatest season a QB has had.

I also think we're a lot closer to being competitive. The parity in the NFL means we can go from 4-12 to being SB contenders in two years, in the SB in three, and winning one in 4. Then go from winning a SB to bottom of the barrel in two years.

Kind of crazy, but there's absolutely no reason this team can't get back on track and be a contender next year. We still have a top 5 defense in every statistical category, and they'd be number 1 in most everything if the offense and special teams didn't screw them over constantly. Fix the offense, fix the special teams, and this team is right back in the thick of everything.

As for Eli's sentiments that is what all the sportscasters on ESPN are saying, but it makes too much sense for Eli not to do it.

Denver is no longer a desirable destination after going 5-11 or something. They need too much rebuilding.

If the Broncos problems were just at QB, they could go out and sign Kirk Cousins or some other veteran Qb and take another run at a SB next year.

But, that is just more delusional thinking. They need at least nine and possibly as many as 11 new starters next year! And their QB is likely to be a rookie.

Team Needs:
TE
#3 slot WR
#2 WR
RB, possibly two RBs
QB
RT
RG
DT
ILB
CB

About the only need they might meet from this list is TE with Butt, however we've never seen him play. He might never fully recover from his knee surgery and be the same explosive player he was at Michigan. What if he isn't? They need another TE.

It's hard to get 9 new starters out of 22 and possibly a new OC and win the SB in the same year. That just ain't happening.

Cugel
11-29-2017, 10:17 PM
I'd rather see us go after Andrew Luck. Maybe swing a 3 team trade that would send Eli to Indy. Think about that, another Manning in Indy so I think the fans would take that a little better if they were going to lose Luck.

Then we get Elways guy, a Stanford player in Andrew Luck whom he wanted years back but didn't have the ammo to get him. It is rumored that Luck is unhappy in Indy so maybe this could happen.

This team should just stay away from drafting a QB and go get a solid veteran. We suck at drafting QBs anyway.

The only way Luck could possibly come to Denver is if some team secretly made a deal with Denver to trade for him, and then trade him to Denver. And that can never happen. I'm not sure it's even allowable under league rules.

Jim Irsay will play host to the legions of hell in his butt-hole before he will allow another Colts QB get away to the Broncos only to watch him go to multiple SBs while the Colts never get there. Elway did it to them TWICE! Irsay remembers bitterly. So, since Luck is under contract, no deal is possible.

Cugel
11-29-2017, 10:22 PM
I'd love to get Luck. I don't think he's done, it's just impossible to get him cause Irsay won't allow him to come to Denver. He hasn't gotten over watching Peyton, when Irsay thought he was washed up, come here and the Broncos win 50 games in 4 seasons and go to 2 SBs, winning one.

Tbolt
11-29-2017, 11:16 PM
We’re NOT GETTING Luck!

Eli...maybe.

We Don’t have to draft a QB. That’s a fallacy. Name the last drafted QB the Broncos had that took them as far as the AFC Championship game. Go on, I’ll wait.

Traded for Elway, Craig Morton (6 Superbowls, both ring of fame)

Signed as FA Plummer, Manning (2 more Superbowls and a Championship appearance).

Drafted QB’s that took us to playoffs (Griese, Tebow).

topscribe
11-30-2017, 12:51 AM
Go after Kirk Cousins with guns ablazing!

Broncoknight30
11-30-2017, 06:22 AM
Yeah, a 4th rounder. Having said that, I don't think Eli Manning has been close to great, even when people said he "was great." He has been an overrated QB his entire career. Of course he has made plays and yes he has two rings.

Of course when the Giants defense in 2007 held the greatest offense to that point to 14 points.....

Eli Manning was the 25th rated QB that year.

He has actually always been surrounded by outstanding talent. They usually have a solid running game and they always had solid WRs.

Having said that, he is better than anything on this roster now. 4th round picks are not a big deal. Elway will screw that up anyway, most likely. SO yeah.

Northman
11-30-2017, 06:26 AM
Go after Kirk Cousins with guns ablazing!

Yes please!

Northman
11-30-2017, 06:29 AM
Having said that, he is better than anything on this roster now. .

He is and while i agreed with a lot of your other points if by chance Denver goes after him they will still need to fix the line problems. The Broncos also have to find a way to be able to run the ball again, something that has been sorely lacking on a consistent basis for years now.

Broncoknight30
11-30-2017, 06:56 AM
He is and while i agreed with a lot of your other points if by chance Denver goes after him they will still need to fix the line problems. The Broncos also have to find a way to be able to run the ball again, something that has been sorely lacking on a consistent basis for years now.

I think if they do go after Eli Manning and only gave up a 4th rounder, I think they could theoretically get an OLineman. I personally think Bolles is a decent pick. I think Leary is staying where he is.

Now, the RT position is a big problem along with that other guard position. A RT is NOT typically picked in the first round. They can land a solid RT in the 2nd round. When they have a decent pick in the first round, I was hoping they would land a solid inside linebacker. The ILBs on this team are also a big weakness. They could probably find the best one in the draft with the pick they are going to have.

They can address the other guard position in FA.

Of course all of this is not knowing who the coach is going to be next year. We have no clue of ANYTHING right now. None. I think Eli Manning is a pipe dream. I would hope they could trade for Eli and have Chad Kelly learn under him for a few seasons. What I do not want is for them to waste a pick on anyone that is not named Rosen or Darnold. I am not even all that impressed with them. If they do draft one of those guys, I have no idea how that will all play out.

I definitely DO NOT want Baker Mayfield. Just reiterate, I don't want to see another hyped Big XII QB come into the NFL only to see him suck. I asked for someone to give me the last Big XII to have a career that met expectations with the hype they came in with. I never did get an answer, and Mayfield looks like yet another one of those. I watched hi, play and not impressed. Plus, could this roster handle two head case QBs with him and Chad Kelly on it?

The best case scenario is the one that has been discussed. It is a pipe dream and the reason is there will be teams offering more than a 4th rounder. Like the Jags for instance, where he could be reunited with Coughlin. There are other teams that would offer more than a 4th I think.

Freyaka
11-30-2017, 08:32 AM
They are giving up fewer points, but Denver's defense was historically great. They scored TDs on defense, they had that kind of swagger that they were going to take the ball away and not just fall down after they caught it, they were going to score a TD.

If Jacksonville does that in the SB, then they will be comparable to the Broncos 2015. I'm not holding my breath either.

That kind of victory happens to 1 team every ten years on average, and never to the same team twice: '85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, and 2015 Broncos. It could happen again this year and not again for another 10, but most likely not. It's just hard to get to the SB without an elite QB. So hard it rarely happens.

I've already backed down to from my stance slightly, but Jacksonville has scored more TD's on defense than Denver did in 2015 and the season isn't over yet. They've got that same swagger.

MasterShake
11-30-2017, 09:24 AM
I've already backed down to from my stance slightly, but Jacksonville has scored more TD's on defense than Denver did in 2015 and the season isn't over yet. They've got that same swagger.

I don't know man, Denver had a pretty historic Defense in 2015 and it just wasn't the stats. JAX is playing great defense, but you have to look at lots of variables including strength of schedule. When Denver faced elite or playoff teams in 2015, aside from the game in Pittsburgh, they came to play and punched them in the mouth. They carried us to a Super Bowl, and until Jacksonville wins a playoff game they are just a team with a good defense. We will see how things look when the dust settles I guess.

Shazam!
11-30-2017, 04:03 PM
All this about how great Jax is on Defense, they arent doing it alone. They rae becoming a great Team with a lot of stocked Draft picks (similar to LA

Theyre like dead last in the League in passing but they lead the league in running the football. Their offensive line right now is 10x better than the Broncos.

And comparing the 2015 Broncos teams, we must keep in mind they weren't even top 10 offensively in... Anything. They were able to do just enough. Thank God.

I'm just saying as an offense they are coflhesive and play to their strengths.

wayninja
11-30-2017, 04:44 PM
I'm not sure why this is rubbing so many people the wrong way. Jax's defense is playing really, really well right now. Whether or not that lasts remains to be seen, but it's hard to argue with the results/stats thusfar.

Freyaka
11-30-2017, 04:46 PM
I'm not sure why this is rubbing so many people the wrong way. Jax's defense is playing really, really well right now. Whether or not that lasts remains to be seen, but it's hard to argue with the results/stats thusfar.

I've just quit debating it...

Apparently suggesting that a team looks as good in a specific area as 2015 is sacrilege.

Hawgdriver
11-30-2017, 07:17 PM
I've just quit debating it...

Apparently suggesting that a team looks as good in a specific area as 2015 is sacrilege.

The only reason 2015 Broncos D is so sacred is because of what they accomplished in the postseason and Superbowl. If Jax matches that, then you make comparisons. The reg season stuff is totally fine to compare and use to validate a solid D, but until Jax does what Den did in playoffs, it's nothing special.

Northman
11-30-2017, 07:38 PM
Its not a problem for me that Jax gets compared to the 2015 Broncos. If you would of asked me in the middle of the the 15' season if we had the type of team to win the SB i would of said you were crazy. THe way the offense was and how Manning was playing i didnt think we could pull it off, let alone against a team with the best record and high potent offense like the Panthers.

But, there is some things that can be challenged with the Jaguars and as Shaky has pointed out its their schedule.

Out of the teams the Jaguars have played so far this year only 3 of them have winning records and the Jaguars are 1-2 vs those teams. So while they have a very very good defense and a great running game they have not fared well against teams with winning records. While you can argue you simply play what is on your schedule you do have to take that into consideration when dealing out praise so for the people saying they will still need to prove it come playoff time (if they get that far) they would be correct. Denver was able to flip a switch in the playoffs and dominate, the question will be can the Jaguars do it? If i had to say right now i would say no. I dont think for a second that they would beat the Steelers like they did the first time and i dont think they could dream of beating NE.

MOtorboat
11-30-2017, 07:54 PM
We’re NOT GETTING Luck!

Eli...maybe.

We Don’t have to draft a QB. That’s a fallacy. Name the last drafted QB the Broncos had that took them as far as the AFC Championship game. Go on, I’ll wait.

Traded for Elway, Craig Morton (6 Superbowls, both ring of fame)

Signed as FA Plummer, Manning (2 more Superbowls and a Championship appearance).

Drafted QB’s that took us to playoffs (Griese, Tebow).

This has absolutely zero bearing on the next quarterback. None. Zilch. Nada.

MOtorboat
11-30-2017, 07:55 PM
The only reason 2015 Broncos D is so sacred is because of what they accomplished in the postseason and Superbowl. If Jax matches that, then you make comparisons. The reg season stuff is totally fine to compare and use to validate a solid D, but until Jax does what Den did in playoffs, it's nothing special.

Great D. When they shut down Tommy boy in the playoffs, we can talk about legacy comparisons. Statistically, yes, very similar.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-30-2017, 08:20 PM
Great D. When they shut down Tommy boy in the playoffs, we can talk about legacy comparisons. Statistically, yes, very similar.

Is Jacksonville’s offense giving up as many points as Denver’s did in 2015?

Nomad
12-03-2017, 06:01 PM
Just read on the Redzone Channel.....Archie said that Eli is thinking about retiring after the season.

Cugel
12-04-2017, 08:55 PM
He is and while i agreed with a lot of your other points if by chance Denver goes after him they will still need to fix the line problems. The Broncos also have to find a way to be able to run the ball again, something that has been sorely lacking on a consistent basis for years now.

They are TRYING to run the ball, but as VJ says, they are getting blown out so quickly that they can't stick with it. Every team knows they can't throw and DT & Sanders aren't winning one-on-one battles with DBs either.

Now that they fired the coach, it's likely Eli stays next season.