NFL draft order - 2018

[VonDoom]

Okay, so we're 3-5 and likely headed for 3-6 after Brady has his way with us on Sunday night. Despite word that we'll be trying to win the division as long as it's mathematically possible, it seems very likely we're headed for a bad season and therefore a high draft pick. This handy website lists and constantly updates the draft order for 2018. As of today, we would have the 9th pick. Since this team doesn't often have bad seasons, that's not a spot we're used to being. The last time we had a really high draft pick, of course, was when we selected Von Miller. If we finish with a top ten pick, we should have our pick of mostly anyone, either by virtue of good players still being there or by moving up to get our next QB. Who does everyone want?

http://www.tankathon.com/nfl

[Slick]

Gun to my head right now?

Sam Darnold if he declares.

[Magnificent Seven]

Top priority is Right Tackle. (OT Mike McGlinchey from Notre Dame)

Then... draft QB Lamar Jackson from Louisville.

DE, ILB, and FS.

[Shazam!]

I used to post in Threads of Seasons past how it was way to early to be thinking if the Draft in November.

OLine QB TE WR absolute priorities

[weazel]

tankathon... lol nice. Took at look at the NHL one as well, looks like the Edmonton OilTankers are right on path as well.

Is Baker Mayfield not in this years draft?

Don't know where he is projected to get picked but I would love to see the Broncos get Braxton Berrios. He's going to the be Welker type slot receiver / returner... will probably see the Patriots pick him.

[VonDoom]

tankathon... lol nice. Took at look at the NHL one as well, looks like the Edmonton OilTankers are right on path as well.

Is Baker Mayfield not in this years draft?

He'll be there, but scouts are divided on him right now. I'm pretty high on Mayfield - that's the guy I want, actually. I'd like Darnold, but I'm not even sure he comes out and I don't know if he'd be worth a ransom to move up and get.

[Slick]

He'll be there, but scouts are divided on him right now. I'm pretty high on Mayfield - that's the guy I want, actually. I'd like Darnold, but I'm not even sure he comes out and I don't know if he'd be worth a ransom to move up and get.

If they decide Darnold is can't miss they should pay whatever price it takes.

[VonDoom]

If they decide Darnold is can't miss they should pay whatever price it takes.

This is true. I've already said we need to overspend on the QB position this year - get a FA and use our first pick on one if they love a guy.

[Nomad]

Gun to my head right now?

Sam Darnold if he declares.

Maybe Darnold can break the cycle of overrated USC QBs that come into the NFL. I believe Palmer is the only decent one to come out in a long time.

[OrangeHoof]

With this offensive line, Lamar Jackson makes the most sense.

[Cugel]

As of now, the Broncos would be 8th, but that will "improve" with further expected losses. The real problem is going to be getting a top 5 pick in order to acquire a franchise QB when about 10 other teams all want the same QBs, and the Broncos are unlikely to get one of the top 3 picks.


10th pick - Chicago Bears NFC 3-5
9th pick - Cincinnati Bengals AFC 3-5
8th pick - Denver Broncos AFC 3-5 Denver picks ahead of the Bears and Bengals based on tie-breaking procedures like conference record and strength of schedule. Of course the Broncos play the Bengals in 2 weeks, so the loser of that game will probably have the tie-breaker.
7th pick - Houston Texans AFC 3-5
6th pick - Los Angeles Chargers AFC 3-5
5th pick - Indianapolis Colts AFC 3-6 (Broncos play the Colts too)
4th pick - Tampa Bay Buccaneers NFC 2-6
3rd pick - New York Giants NFC 1-7 (Broncos already lost to the Giants, but they have only 1 win)
2nd pick - Cleveland Browns AFC 0-8
1st pick - San Francisco 49ers NFC 0-9

The Broncos could lose out, finish 3-13 and still have no better than the #3 overall pick, in a draft where some draft experts expect the top 3 players to be QBs. This doesn't take into account that the 49ers are almost certainly going to get one of the top 2 picks, but they just traded a 2nd round pick in 2018 for QB Jimmy Garapollo. So, if they took a QB with their pick that would be their top 2 picks for QBs - on a roster that needs at least 11 new starters, and probably about 15.

Depending on where the Broncos wind up, they would have to move up in the draft.

How much would that cost? Take a look at the draft value chart.



Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 Round 4 Round 5 Round 6 Round 7
1 3,000 33 580 65 265 97 112 129 43 161 27 193 14.2
2 2,600 34 560 66 260 98 108 130 42 162 26.6 194 13.8
3 2,200 35 550 67 255 99 104 131 41 163 26.2 195 13.4
4 1,800 36 540 68 250 100 100 132 40 164 25.8 196 13
5 1,700 37 530 69 245 101 96 133 39.5 165 25.4 197 12.6
6 1,600 38 520 70 240 102 92 134 39 166 25 198 12.2
7 1,500 39 510 71 235 103 88 135 38.5 167 24.6 199 11.8
8 1,400 40 500 72 230 104 86 136 38 168 24.2 200 11.4
9 1,350 41 490 73 225 105 84 137 37.5 169 23.8 201 11
10 1,300 42 480 74 220 106 82 138 37 170 23.4 202 10.6
11 1,250 43 470 75 215 107 80 139 36.5 171 23 203 10.2
12 1,200 44 460 76 210 108 78 140 36 172 22.6 204 9.8
13 1,150 45 450 77 205 109 76 141 35.5 173 22.2 205 9.4
14 1,100 46 440 78 200 110 74 142 35 174 21.8 206 9
15 1,050 47 430 79 195 111 72 143 34.5 175 21.4 207 8.6
16 1,000 48 420 80 190 112 70 144 34 176 21 208 8.2
17 950 49 410 81 185 113 68 145 33.5 177 20.6 209 7.8
18 900 50 400 82 180 114 66 146 33 178 20.2 210 7.4
19 875 51 390 83 175 115 64 147 32.6 179 19.8 211 7
20 850 52 380 84 170 116 62 148 32.2 180 19.4 212 6.6
21 800 53 370 85 165 117 60 149 31.8 181 19 213 6.2
22 780 54 360 86 160 118 58 150 31.4 182 18.6 214 5.8
23 760 55 350 87 155 119 56 151 31 183 18.2 215 5.4
24 740 56 340 88 150 120 54 152 30.6 184 17.8 216 5
25 720 57 330 89 145 121 52 153 30.2 185 17.4 217 4.6
26 700 58 320 90 140 122 50 154 29.8 186 17 218 4.2
27 680 59 310 91 136 123 49 155 29.4 187 16.6 219 3.8
28 660 60 300 92 132 124 48 156 29 188 16.2 220 3.4
29 640 61 292 93 128 125 47 157 28.6 189 15.8 221 3
30 620 62 284 94 124 126 46 158 28.2 190 15.4 222 2.6
31 600 63 276 95 120 127 45 159 27.8 191 15 223 2.3
32 590 64 270 96 116 128 44 160 27.4 192 14.6 224 2


So, for the Broncos to move up from #8 to #3, for example, would cost around 2200 - 1400 = 800 points. So, it would take the Broncos 1st and 2nd round picks, plus something to equal about 300 more points, which would be the Broncos #3 pick, or else some equivalent in players etc.

In short, it would take a lot. To move up from outside the top 10 is often not even possible because the trading team does not want to move down too far. Of course, the trade value chart isn't totally exact, but teams do use it as a starting point in negotiations.

The cost would be exorbitantly high, but what choice do they have? Elway has tried repeatedly to find a QB, and every time he fails it costs the team another 2 years in the wilderness with no playoff appearances. They need a DeShaun Watson or Derek Carr or Dak Prescott or Russell Wilson on this roster - just to name QBs the Broncos could have possibly drafted but didn't.

The draft of Paxton Lynch was supposed to provide a franchise QB for the next 10 years but didn't as Paxton is a bust.

[weazel]

They would be able to get a Lamar Jackson in that range.

Jeremiah Briscoe would be a QB to look for in a later round

[Cugel]

They would be able to get a Lamar Jackson in that range.

Jeremiah Briscoe would be a QB to look for in a later round

The Broncos can't waste any more seasons getting "later round" QBs who are "overlooked" and therefore cheap. They have lots of "developmental QBs" who can't play dead in a western, (Trevor, Brock, Paxton) and NO franchise QBs. They need an absolute, can't miss, blue-chip QB, or the closest thing they can get to him. And no more time can be spent on "coaching up" some random dude like Trevor who nobody outside Denver ever expected to do anything or waiting endlessly for Paxton "to be ready."

They should get a pretty good look at Paxton after the next two losses to the Pats and Bengals. Unless he suddenly starts looking like a healthy Andrew Luck, forget it. Move on and start compiling draft picks so you can move up in the draft and get a top QB prospect.

After all, what else do they need? They can get a RT in FA. They already have their LT in Bolles. They could use a TE but they have Jake Butt coming off IR next year. They could use an inside LB but that's the kind of player you can get in the 2nd, same thing for CB. As for RBs they are something you can find in later rounds OK.

Especially this is true if the Broncos get a top 6 pick, which means they would have a high pick in every round.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don’t like any of these quarterbacks in the top 3, especially if Eway is making the pick. Now, if he goes defense or OT I’ll be very optimistic we have an impact player on our hands

[weazel]

The Broncos can't waste any more seasons getting "later round" QBs who are "overlooked" and therefore cheap. They have lots of "developmental QBs" who can't play dead in a western, (Trevor, Brock, Paxton) and NO franchise QBs. They need an absolute, can't miss, blue-chip QB, or the closest thing they can get to him. And no more time can be spent on "coaching up" some random dude like Trevor who nobody outside Denver ever expected to do anything or waiting endlessly for Paxton "to be ready."

They should get a pretty good look at Paxton after the next two losses to the Pats and Bengals. Unless he suddenly starts looking like a healthy Andrew Luck, forget it. Move on and start compiling draft picks so you can move up in the draft and get a top QB prospect.

After all, what else do they need? They can get a RT in FA. They already have their LT in Bolles. They could use a TE but they have Jake Butt coming off IR next year. They could use an inside LB but that's the kind of player you can get in the 2nd, same thing for CB. As for RBs they are something you can find in later rounds OK.

Especially this is true if the Broncos get a top 6 pick, which means they would have a high pick in every round.

and that's why I mentioned the other guys in previous posts... now wipe that foam from your mouth. BTW... what is wrong with grabbing a QB in later rounds as well as trying to get your stud early? Briscoe could be a wasted late pick but he could also be the next Wentz... who knows.

[OrangeHoof]

7th pick - Houston Texans AFC 3-5

Acquired by Cleveland.

[FanInAZ]

Acquired by Cleveland.

Who did they get in return?

[OrangeHoof]

Who did they get in return?

Houston moved up in the draft last spring to take Deshaun Watson. Cleveland received the Texans' first-rounder in 2017 and 2018. Cleveland also has the 2nd-rounder from Houston in 2018 as part of the Brock Osweiler trade.

[FanInAZ]

Houston moved up in the draft last spring to take Deshaun Watson. Cleveland received the Texans' first-rounder in 2017 and 2018. Cleveland also has the 2nd-rounder from Houston in 2018 as part of the Brock Osweiler trade.

So can Cleveland land a single Watson caliber player with all of those picks? If I owned a family farm, I'd bet it that they won't :lol:

[Hawgdriver]

He'll be there, but scouts are divided on him right now. I'm pretty high on Mayfield - that's the guy I want, actually. I'd like Darnold, but I'm not even sure he comes out and I don't know if he'd be worth a ransom to move up and get.

I doubt a guy of Mayfield's maturity is the ideal face of the franchise, but maybe.

[Cugel]

and that's why I mentioned the other guys in previous posts... now wipe that foam from your mouth. BTW... what is wrong with grabbing a QB in later rounds as well as trying to get your stud early? Briscoe could be a wasted late pick but he could also be the next Wentz... who knows.

It's true some later round QB "could also be the next Wentz". Except that the probability of that is below 1%. You're comparing some later round guy to the #2 pick of the draft! No. Just no.

[Cugel]

Acquired by Cleveland.

No, the Browns got the Texans' SECOND round pick in the Osweiler trade, which right now would be #41 I think.


The Texans are trading quarterback Brock Osweiler to the Browns, a move that will take Osweiler's $16 million guaranteed salary off of Houston's books.

Cleveland also will receive the Texans' 2018 second-round pick and a 2017 sixth-round pick (No. 188 overall). (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18865517/houston-texans-trade-brock-osweiler-2018-second-round-pick-cleveland-browns)Houston will get a 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 142), and save $10 million in salary-cap space and $16 million in cash this season.

[OrangeHoof]

No, the Browns got the Texans' SECOND round pick in the Osweiler trade, which right now would be #41 I think.

I don't know what you think I said but I said that Cleveland got Houston's first so the Texans could trade up and draft Watson plus they got Houston's second in an earlier trade that Cleveland received Osweiler. The Browns are holding Houston's first and second picks of 2018.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don't know what you think I said but I said that Cleveland got Houston's first so the Texans could trade up and draft Watson plus they got Houston's second in an earlier trade that Cleveland received Osweiler. The Browns are holding Houston's first and second picks of 2018.

Wow, the Browns could end up with two top ten picks.

[weazel]

It's true some later round QB "could also be the next Wentz". Except that the probability of that is below 1%. You're comparing some later round guy to the #2 pick of the draft! No. Just no.

where did I compare a late round qb to a #2 pick? Do you ******* read the posts or just make shit up as you go?

[weazel]

I don't know what you think I said but I said that Cleveland got Houston's first so the Texans could trade up and draft Watson plus they got Houston's second in an earlier trade that Cleveland received Osweiler. The Browns are holding Houston's first and second picks of 2018.

I don't think he's reading a single post, he just quickly glances at them, notices two words and then froths at the mouth.

[Tbolt]

San Francisco likely moves back. That was the genius of trading for Garapollo this season. He can learn the playbook and be stashed for next year, while they evaluate what else they have, which likely means drafting 1 or 2. Given all their needs but having a QB to sell the fans, they can stockpile picks moving back a bit, still land a blue chipper, and have a guy ready to go in the system. Lynch has been a prett good GM for them so far.

Now, do the Giants cut bait on Eli? If not, they won't be in the mix. Denver could be in a position to get a QB, playing the way they are, if there is one worth the pick.

[VonDoom]

San Francisco likely moves back. That was the genius of trading for Garapollo this season. He can learn the playbook and be stashed for next year, while they evaluate what else they have, which likely means drafting 1 or 2. Given all their needs but having a QB to sell the fans, they can stockpile picks moving back a bit, still land a blue chipper, and have a guy ready to go in the system. Lynch has been a prett good GM for them so far.

Now, do the Giants cut bait on Eli? If not, they won't be in the mix. Denver could be in a position to get a QB, playing the way they are, if there is one worth the pick.

I think even if the Giants keep Eli, the writing is on the wall there. He's getting older and certainly isn't that good anymore. I could see them drafting someone and creating an awkward situation, ala the Chiefs with Smith and Mahomes. Then again, Smith is playing his best football ever, so maybe it would inspire Eli. My point is that they are certainly in the mix for a QB early.

[DT88TheGreat]

Okay, so we're 3-5 and likely headed for 3-6 after Brady has his way with us on Sunday night. Despite word that we'll be trying to win the division as long as it's mathematically possible, it seems very likely we're headed for a bad season and therefore a high draft pick. This handy website lists and constantly updates the draft order for 2018. As of today, we would have the 9th pick. Since this team doesn't often have bad seasons, that's not a spot we're used to being. The last time we had a really high draft pick, of course, was when we selected Von Miller. If we finish with a top ten pick, we should have our pick of mostly anyone, either by virtue of good players still being there or by moving up to get our next QB. Who does everyone want?

http://www.tankathon.com/nfl

Roquan Smith or nobody!

If he's not there then give me oje of the elite tackles.

[DT88TheGreat]

where did I compare a late round qb to a #2 pick? Do you ******* read the posts or just make shit up as you go?

He just makes shit up, he is so smart and full of himself that he just reads a few word's and proceed to showing how.brilliant he is.

[Traveler]

Wow, the Browns could end up with two top ten picks.

A screw up both of them.

[Simple Jaded]

Broncos need Lynch to show something while getting the 1st or 2nd pick (behind SF) so they can get an RGIII haul from Browns. Their wannabe moneyball FO is losing sway with that corrupt owner after their sabatoge of the McCarron deal.

Knock on wood.......

[Simple Jaded]

I don't think he's reading a single post, he just quickly glances at them, notices two words and then froths at the mouth.

Is that not SOP?

[VonDoom]

Tankathon has us with the number six pick in the draft next year, with our next opponent the Bengals at number five. Not too shabby ...

[DT88TheGreat]

I'd be stoked if we can get as high as 2-3......

[OrangeHoof]

I'd be stoked if we can get as high as 2-3......

Competition is very stiff with the "undefeated" Browns and the "one loss" Niners and Giants ahead of us.

[Rick]

When all is said and done I think it will be:

1: Browns
2: Giants
3: Broncos
4: 49ers

I think with this freefall it is possible we don't win again and I think the 49ers might just net a few more wins, especially when they get the new QB out there.

[Cugel]

and that's why I mentioned the other guys in previous posts... now wipe that foam from your mouth. BTW... what is wrong with grabbing a QB in later rounds as well as trying to get your stud early? Briscoe could be a wasted late pick but he could also be the next Wentz... who knows.

What is wrong with drafting a QB after the top round? Because nearly ALL QBs taken in the 2nd or later round are busts, that's why!

Just take a look at this!

2016:
After Goff and Wentz went 1-2: Paxton Lynch- #26, Christian Hackenberg, #51, Jacoby Brisett, Cody Kessler, Connor Cook. . . Dak Prescott would be the only other QB taken who was any good

2015:
Who looks good? Winston and Mariotta, 1-2. Who doesn't? Everybody else: Garrett Grayson, Sean Mannion, Bryce Petty, Brett Hundley Trevor Siemian

Every year there's maybe 1 or 2 QBs not taken in the first round who aren't terrible. But, nobody can predict which guy this will be. 32 Teams passed on Dak Prescott 3 times and most 4.

So, not only are the odds against you but guessing wrong sets back your franchise for at least 2 seasons. Just as the Broncos wasted 2 seasons because Elway and the coaching staff wanted Trevor Siemian as the starter and Elway didn't go out and get an actually GOOD QB.

So, the team falls apart and goes 5-11. The Broncos are 1 more year of QB futility away from becoming just another LOSING franchise.

Will they become like the pathetic Raiders - losing every year, while still bragging about their last championship season in 1983 when Marcus Allen was the MVP?

Once you have a couple of losing seasons back to back, you have officially replaced the culture of winning with a culture of losing. And losing is contagious. It breeds more losing. Just ask Detroit and Cleveland. Just ask the Raiders how hard that is to recover from!

[Cugel]

When all is said and done I think it will be:

1: Browns
2: Giants
3: Broncos
4: 49ers

I think with this freefall it is possible we don't win again and I think the 49ers might just net a few more wins, especially when they get the new QB out there.

You forget the Colts, who just lost to the 49ers, probably on purpose. They look to be trying to secure the #1 overall pick. If so, it would be a move to get a QB and trade Andrew Luck.

And before you get excited, there is just ZERO chance that Jim Irsay is going to trade Luck to the Broncos. None whatever after watching the Broncos win the SB with Peyton while the Colts wander the wastelands of futility. That hurt! They aren't risking that again!

Besides the Broncos will probably win 1 or 2 more meaningless games. Possibly 3. They play a few bad teams - Colts, Jets, Dolphins, and Redskins, all teams with losing records, only the Chiefs have a winning record.

Of course they are capable of losing to all of them, but so are those teams! The Broncos are bound to run into a team trying harder to lose than them, and with less talent.

[Rick]

I've seen you mention the Colts losing to the 49ers in a number of threads. You misread something somewhere.

Colts lost to the Steelers.

49ers beat the Giants.

[PatriotsGuy]

You forget the Colts, who just lost to the 49ers, probably on purpose.




No they didn't the Giants did?

[BeefStew25]

I've seen you mention the Colts losing to the 49ers in a number of threads. You misread something somewhere.

Colts lost to the Steelers.

49ers beat the Giants.

I enjoy when you hold cugel accountable.

[Hawgdriver]

What is wrong with drafting a QB after the top round? Because nearly ALL QBs taken in the 2nd or later round are busts, that's why!

It seems like there's an echo in here.

[weazel]

Good article in Forbes about draft efficiency. https://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/4/#5754322268de

Looks like round 2 and 3 are much more important than most think.

[Hawgdriver]

Good article in Forbes about draft efficiency. https://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/4/#5754322268de

Looks like round 2 and 3 are much more important than most think.

You mean rounds 3 and later?

[weazel]

You mean rounds 3 and later?

nah, everyone is junk after round 1.

[Hawgdriver]

nah, everyone is junk after round 1.

Finally! Someone gets it!!!

[Cugel]

Broncos need Lynch to show something while getting the 1st or 2nd pick (behind SF) so they can get an RGIII haul from Browns. Their wannabe moneyball FO is losing sway with that corrupt owner after their sabatoge of the McCarron deal.

Knock on wood.......

They can't get anything for Lynch (would YOU give anything for him? NO? Then why would an NFL GM?) and they can't get the #1 or #2 overall pick.

Right now there are TEN teams with 3 or fewer wins:

In draft order (as determined by the NFL):

#1 Cleveland 0-9
#2 49ers 1-9
#3 Giants 1-8
#4 Colts 3-7
#5 Bucs 3-6
#6 Chargers 3-6
#7 Texans 3-6
#8 Broncos 3-6
#9 Bengals 3-6
#10 Bears 3-6

All the 3-6 teams are compared by strength of schedule and other tie-breakers. It's too convoluted for me to determine why the Broncos would pick behind the Bucs, Chargers and Texans.

But you can see that even if the Broncos lose out and go 3-13 they are not getting the #1 or #2 pick in all probability. Even if they finish with the same record as another team they might not pick ahead of them due to tie-breakers. The Browns, Giants and 49ers are all angling for that #1 pick with only 1 or 0 wins.

All in all, the Broncos are likely a top 10 pick. But, that's all we can say. The 49ers and Giants are worse and have worse records. The Giants beat the Broncos but I don't know that matters in breaking ties between several different teams.

[Slick]

They can't get anything for Lynch (would YOU give anything for him? NO? Then why would an NFL GM?) and they can't get the #1 or #2 overall pick.

Right now there are TEN teams with 3 or fewer wins:

In draft order (as determined by the NFL):

#1 Cleveland 0-9
#2 49ers 1-9
#3 Giants 1-8
#4 Colts 3-7
#5 Bucs 3-6
#6 Chargers 3-6
#7 Texans 3-6
#8 Broncos 3-6
#9 Bengals 3-6
#10 Bears 3-6

All the 3-6 teams are compared by strength of schedule and other tie-breakers. It's too convoluted for me to determine why the Broncos would pick behind the Bucs, Chargers and Texans.

But you can see that even if the Broncos lose out and go 3-13 they are not getting the #1 or #2 pick in all probability. Even if they finish with the same record as another team they might not pick ahead of them due to tie-breakers. The Browns, Giants and 49ers are all angling for that #1 pick with only 1 or 0 wins.

All in all, the Broncos are likely a top 10 pick. But, that's all we can say. The 49ers and Giants are worse and have worse records. The Giants beat the Broncos but I don't know that matters in breaking ties between several different teams.

As it stands today, the website in the OP has Denver picking 6th.

[Cugel]

Good article in Forbes about draft efficiency. https://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/4/#5754322268de

Looks like round 2 and 3 are much more important than most think.

Not for QBs they aren't. For other positions it's perfectly possible to find quality stars in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. But, any decent prospect at QB is normally taken in the first round.

Just look at Paxton Lynch! Consensus first round talent, but he had never played in a pro-style offense at Memphis. Would NFL teams draft a LB with similar limitations? Not in the first round.

Think not? Remember Elvis Dumervil? He was drafted in the 4th round because he played at Louisville, despite getting 20 sacks in his senior year. S Will Parks was drafted in the 6th round and is turning into a perfectly serviceable S. Nobody notices because having a 6th round S make good is no big surprise.

If he were a QB it would be a HUGE deal! (Like if Trevor made a franchise starter from being a 7th rounder, which he didn't of course).

[Cugel]

As it stands today, the website in the OP has Denver picking 6th.

Does it matter? My point stands. They are tied with 3-6 with 5 other teams. That means some meaningless win in week 14 or 15 could cost them 5 or 6 draft spots. You just can't plan the draft at this point.

All you can do is point out the Broncos are likely a top 10 pick, but probably not in the top 3 because there are 3 teams with 1 or fewer wins ahead of them. Of course the Browns could win 4 games. . . . . yeah right. :coffee:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

We’re gonna get the next Navarro Bowman at #5!

[Slick]

Does it matter? My point stands. They are tied with 3-6 with 5 other teams. That means some meaningless win in week 14 or 15 could cost them 5 or 6 draft spots. You just can't plan the draft at this point.

All you can do is point out the Broncos are likely a top 10 pick, but probably not in the top 3 because there are 3 teams with 1 or fewer wins ahead of them. Of course the Browns could win 4 games. . . . . yeah right. :coffee:

Good grief Cugel. Nobody is planning the draft. We're just having a little fun amid the misery of this season.

[OrangeHoof]

This week's Cincy-Denver game becomes critical then.

IIRC, things like head-to-head etc count for nothing in the draft order. It's all strength of sched and if you were 3-13 against a weak sched, you get listed higher than a 3-13 team against a strong sched so playing KC twice, NE, Philly, etc. hurts us in our strength of sched.

[DT88TheGreat]

They can't get anything for Lynch (would YOU give anything for him? NO? Then why would an NFL GM?) and they can't get the #1 or #2 overall pick.

Right now there are TEN teams with 3 or fewer wins:

In draft order (as determined by the NFL):

#1 Cleveland 0-9
#2 49ers 1-9
#3 Giants 1-8
#4 Colts 3-7
#5 Bucs 3-6
#6 Chargers 3-6
#7 Texans 3-6
#8 Broncos 3-6
#9 Bengals 3-6
#10 Bears 3-6

All the 3-6 teams are compared by strength of schedule and other tie-breakers. It's too convoluted for me to determine why the Broncos would pick behind the Bucs, Chargers and Texans.

But you can see that even if the Broncos lose out and go 3-13 they are not getting the #1 or #2 pick in all probability. Even if they finish with the same record as another team they might not pick ahead of them due to tie-breakers. The Browns, Giants and 49ers are all angling for that #1 pick with only 1 or 0 wins.

All in all, the Broncos are likely a top 10 pick. But, that's all we can say. The 49ers and Giants are worse and have worse records. The Giants beat the Broncos but I don't know that matters in breaking ties between several different teams.

You really don't read post befire replying, I hope you know how foolish you look too reply to something that was never said.

[DT88TheGreat]

We’re gonna get the next Navarro Bowman at #5!

Whose that?

[DT88TheGreat]

Good grief Cugel. Nobody is planning the draft. We're just having a little fun amid the misery of this season.

It's best to ignore cugl most of the time.

[VonDoom]

This week's Cincy-Denver game becomes critical then.

IIRC, things like head-to-head etc count for nothing in the draft order. It's all strength of sched and if you were 3-13 against a weak sched, you get listed higher than a 3-13 team against a strong sched so playing KC twice, NE, Philly, etc. hurts us in our strength of sched.

Yes, I believe that is correct. Strength of schedule is the most important tiebreaker for non-playoff team draft picks.

[Magnificent Seven]

Mike Klis‏Verified account
@MikeKlis
Right now Broncos are drafting in top 10. And they got shot at top 5. Elway/Russell might be interested in UCLA (Rosen)-USC (Darnold) Saturday. #9sports
2:03 PM - 14 Nov 2017

[DT88TheGreat]

Mike Klis‏Verified account
@MikeKlis
Right now Broncos are drafting in top 10. And they got shot at top 5. Elway/Russell might be interested in UCLA (Rosen)-USC (Darnold) Saturday. #9sports
2:03 PM - 14 Nov 2017

I have to watch more tape but neither of them impress me, the best pocket passed in this draft is the boy from Wyoming, now that quarterback has a boat load of talent too work with.

[DT88TheGreat]

https://youtu.be/zkA4MzHFV8A

Check out Josh Allen..... Kind of reminds me of Carson wentz. Same smaller school type of deal, good size and amazing arm with good accuracy.

[Simple Jaded]

They can't get anything for Lynch (would YOU give anything for him? NO? Then why would an NFL GM?) and they can't get the #1 or #2 overall pick.

Right now there are TEN teams with 3 or fewer wins:

In draft order (as determined by the NFL):

#1 Cleveland 0-9
#2 49ers 1-9
#3 Giants 1-8
#4 Colts 3-7
#5 Bucs 3-6
#6 Chargers 3-6
#7 Texans 3-6
#8 Broncos 3-6
#9 Bengals 3-6
#10 Bears 3-6

All the 3-6 teams are compared by strength of schedule and other tie-breakers. It's too convoluted for me to determine why the Broncos would pick behind the Bucs, Chargers and Texans.

But you can see that even if the Broncos lose out and go 3-13 they are not getting the #1 or #2 pick in all probability. Even if they finish with the same record as another team they might not pick ahead of them due to tie-breakers. The Browns, Giants and 49ers are all angling for that #1 pick with only 1 or 0 wins.

All in all, the Broncos are likely a top 10 pick. But, that's all we can say. The 49ers and Giants are worse and have worse records. The Giants beat the Broncos but I don't know that matters in breaking ties between several different teams.

Um, the Broncos need Paxton Lynch to show he can be THEIR QB.

Ya know? So they don’t have to waste another 1st round pick on a QB?

[VonDoom]

Um, the Broncos need Paxton Lynch to show he can be THEIR QB.

Ya know? So they don’t have to waste another 1st round pick on a QB?

Yeah, good luck with that

[BeefStew25]

Yeah, good luck with that

Hey! Respect the mans opinions. We need to kick the tires on lynch.

[VonDoom]

Hey! Respect the mans opinions. We need to kick the tires on lynch.

Oh, I definitely think he should play. I just think he has almost no chance of being good

[BeefStew25]

Oh, I definitely think he should play. I just think he has almost no chance of being good

That’s why we watch my friend. Like grains of sands through the hourglass.....

[Simple Jaded]

Yeah, good luck with that

Two games, he’s had as many different NFL systems as he’s had NFL starts. Good thing Rams didn’t quit on Goff after two games.

[BeefStew25]

Two games, he’s had as many different NFL systems as he’s had NFL starts. Good thing Rams didn’t quit on Goff after two games.

That is a hell of a point.

[VonDoom]

That’s why we watch my friend. Like grains of sands through the hourglass.....

Maybe he just has to gel

[BeefStew25]

Maybe he just has to gel

That’s a dumb cliche.

[weazel]

https://youtu.be/zkA4MzHFV8A

Check out Josh Allen..... Kind of reminds me of Carson wentz. Same smaller school type of deal, good size and amazing arm with good accuracy.

that's not a good comparison. Wentz came out of the FCS, you would need to compare him to someone like Jeremiah Briscoe. Unfortunately the last time I mentioned him Cugel lost his ******* mind

[Rick]

Unfortunately the last time I mentioned him Cugel lost his ******* mind

More than usual?

[Cugel]

Um, the Broncos need Paxton Lynch to show he can be THEIR QB.

Ya know? So they don’t have to waste another 1st round pick on a QB?

Elway just told Dave Logan that Paxton is not starting "until he's ready" which nobody expects this season, even if he's healthy enough to play, which he might well be. You must remember that VJ and Elway are tired of answering questions "when is Paxton going to play?" So, an easy way to deflect such pressure is to say "he's not ready physically" so they don't have to say "the dude still can't read NFL defenses and he can't run the offense so we can't put him in there."

But, if Elway is telling the truth, then we won't see Paxton this season, not even if the team is officially eliminated from contention. So, how can they know Paxton is ever going to be any good, if they can't see him in the regular season?

They are NOT going to commit to him long term without seeing him take major strides towards becoming a really GOOD NFL QB.

So, they MUST draft a QB in the top 10 in the next draft anyway, if they can. Because if they don't and Paxton continues to suck, then you wasted YET ANOTHER SEASON.

It will already take the new QB until 2019 to be competitive - whether that is Paxton or some rookie. They don't want to suck until 2020, which they will if they roll with Paxton sight unseen for next season, he sucks, but they don't draft a QB in 2018 so they have to wait until 2019, which means that QB will take until 2020 to be ready to be any good.

Right now, if you gave Elway truth serum, he'd tell you that they are going to draft a QB and also see what they have in Paxton. If Paxton is capable of starting next year, they will have a veteran starter to start until the rookie draft pick is ready. And if the rookie QB flames out like Trevor, Brock and Paxton did, then you have Trevor still under contract for one more year.

So, at this point, Paxton is an insurance policy, he's not going to ever become the Franchise QB for the Broncos, unless something really major changes.

[Cugel]

More than usual?

11442
Yes. Who did yank out your butt plug, Rick?

[DT88TheGreat]

That’s a dumb cliche.

Very dumb and way over used on this forum to be so dumb and old.

[DT88TheGreat]

that's not a good comparison. Wentz came out of the FCS, you would need to compare him to someone like Jeremiah Briscoe. Unfortunately the last time I mentioned him Cugel lost his ******* mind

I have no idea what the FCS is.... Which means it's likely a smaller weaker school... Like a Wyoming, however what do you think of the actual prospectI though.

[Hawgdriver]

Very dumb and way over used on this forum to be so dumb and old.

Beef?

[BeefStew25]

Very dumb and way over used on this forum to be so dumb and old.

Wait a second pal

[DT88TheGreat]

Wait a second pal

I'm talking about the saying ( time to gel ) whether being used genuinely or sarcastic is very old and dumb.

[Hawgdriver]

Beef is pretty well used though, so 'over used' is fair.

[BeefStew25]

It can never get used enough.

[Simple Jaded]

I feel better about PL ... Cause Cugel's source (Cugel) is always wrong.

[Hawgdriver]

I feel better about PL ... Cause Cugel's source (Cugel) is always wrong.

Who is Cugel?

[Simple Jaded]

Who is Cugel?

That’s Cugel’s inside source.

[VonDoom]

The good news is that we’re up to the number four pick in the draft!

[DT88TheGreat]

The good news is that we’re up to the number four pick in the draft!

This year is allllll about the picks man. The sooner you jump on the top 3 pick of every round band wagon the better you'll feel.

[Traveler]

This year is allllll about the picks man. The sooner you jump on the top 3 pick of every round band wagon the better you'll feel.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but last time they picked that high (2011) all we have to show for it is Miller and Green. So its not a given Elway will be any better drafting that early.

[OrangeHoof]

Folks, not to worry. You really want to pick 4-5 in most drafts because if you truly need to trade up to #1, you have the ammunition but you'll probably be able to select the best RB or the best S or the best CB at that spot. Although Denver will be sorely tempted to select the best OT on the board and bookend him with Bolles.

[DT88TheGreat]

Whose your number one corner?

I think roquan smith is a top 5 pick as well rigjt with derwin james,

As far as best RB yeah saquan out of penn state is a fricking stud offensive game changer that you have to account for in your game plan.

[DT88TheGreat]

Sorry to bust your bubble, but last time they picked that high (2011) all we have to show for it is Miller and Green. So its not a given Elway will be any better drafting that early.

He can't afford too mess this up. The first 3 rounds have to be gold.

[MOtorboat]

Wait a second pal

Your BAE just turned on you....

[Simple Jaded]

Whose your number one corner?

I think roquan smith is a top 5 pick as well rigjt with derwin james,

As far as best RB yeah saquan out of penn state is a fricking stud offensive game changer that you have to account for in your game plan.

Minkah Fitzpatrick is the #1 CB but I’ll take Tavarus McFadden at this point. Too many bust from Bama defensive backfield.

Roquan Smith is a borderline 1st atm, from what I’m reading, wait til Combine/Pro Day process.

[DT88TheGreat]

Minkah Fitzpatrick is the #1 CB but I’ll take Tavarus McFadden at this point. Too many bust from Bama defensive backfield.

Roquan Smith is a borderline 1st atm, from what I’m reading, wait til Combine/Pro Day process.

IF a linebacker like Roquan Smith is a late 1st/ early 2nd then we sure qs hell better trade up and snag him late first.... I highly doubt he last past the top 10 though. Once he runs a 4.5 and has an awesome shuttle drill time he'll secure his top 10 status.

[DT88TheGreat]

McFadden is a stud though and FSU has been spitting out some very very good corner lately.

[Simple Jaded]

IF a linebacker like Roquan Smith is a late 1st/ early 2nd then we sure qs hell better trade up and snag him late first.... I highly doubt he last past the top 10 though. Once he runs a 4.5 and has an awesome shuttle drill time he'll secure his top 10 status.

That’s what I’m thinking but he apparently ran 4.7’s in spring practices, he’ll prepare for the combine and probably shine though.

But it’s not a given.

[Simple Jaded]

McFadden is a stud though and FSU has been spitting out some very very good corner lately.

He’s struggled this season, as has most of the top ‘18 Draft prospects, for whatever reason.

I just hope the Broncos haven’t secured a high pick in another ‘13 dud, that entire draft was brutal.

[DT88TheGreat]

That’s what I’m thinking but he apparently ran 4.7’s in spring practices, he’ll prepare for the combine and probably shine though.

But it’s not a given.

He looks a whole lot faster on game tape than 4.7 but we'll see.

[Slick]

Currently 4th according to link.

Tankathon. :lol:

[weazel]

Let's go 3!

[MOtorboat]

#gargleforDarnold

[Cugel]

Let's go 3!

Hard to move up when the Browns never win, the Giants have 2 wins, and the 49ers also have 2 to Denver's 3 wins. At most any of those teams might win 1 more game, and Denver might not have the tie-breaker (strength of schedule). In fact if they stumble onto another win they will drop to around #7 - making it hard to move up to draft a franchise Qb.

I just checked Tankathon and it's worse than I thought. The 49ers play the 4-8 Texans next week, but finish up with a murders' row: Titans 8-4, Jaguars 8-4 and Rams 9-3. No chance in those games.

Giants have a slightly better chance in that they play the Cowboys, Cardinals, Eagles, and Redskins. But, probably they don't win another game either. Doesn't matter who Cleveland plays. They'll lose.

So, the Broncos probably will wind up #4 or worse.

[VonDoom]

Hard to move up when the Browns never win, the Giants have 2 wins, and the 49ers also have 2 to Denver's 3 wins. At most any of those teams might win 1 more game, and Denver might not have the tie-breaker (strength of schedule). In fact if they stumble onto another win they will drop to around #7 - making it hard to move up to draft a franchise Qb.

I just checked Tankathon and it's worse than I thought. The 49ers play the 4-8 Texans next week, but finish up with a murders' row: Titans 8-4, Jaguars 8-4 and Rams 9-3. No chance in those games.

Giants have a slightly better chance in that they play the Cowboys, Cardinals, Eagles, and Redskins. But, probably they don't win another game either. Doesn't matter who Cleveland plays. They'll lose.

So, the Broncos probably will wind up #4 or worse.

The Giants could conceivably win one or two of those games, now that Eli is playing again. Maybe the stench of McAdoo being lifted will help them. The 49ers are harder to see, though I think they have a chance against the Texans this week with Jimmy G going.

[Cugel]

The Giants could conceivably win one or two of those games, now that Eli is playing again. Maybe the stench of McAdoo being lifted will help them. The 49ers are harder to see, though I think they have a chance against the Texans this week with Jimmy G going.

WEll, the Giants better beat Dallas. Broncos have a worse strength of schedule than they do, so they have the tie-breaker.

As for the 49ers they could win 1 more game too.

But, strength of schedule changes by what the teams ultimately do. Beat a 6-0 team is one thing. But, if that team then lost 10 in a row, their strength of schedule # would go down.

SO the # will change. That might mean the 49ers would need to win 2 games for the Broncos to get past them.

[Cugel]

Some interesting things this afternoon about the draft standings. The worst loser teams are sorting themselves out from those with more hope for the future:

Current draft standings:


1. Browns 0-13 - They lost again in overtime because of course they did.
2. Giants 2-11. Eli is back and they still can't win. This looks like a 2-14 team now.
3. Indy moves up from 5 to #3 because both the Broncos and 49ers won. Interesting.
4. 49ers. 3-10 With Jimmy Garapolo at the helm suddenly they are capable of winning games. Expect them to win another game this year, and who knows? Perhaps the Rams will be resting all their starters in the final game and give it away to the 49ers.
5. Broncos 4-9 (Broncos still have the tie-breaker: lower strength of schedule .485 - they played worse teams.
6. Houston 4-9 sos: .512
7. Chicago 4-9 sos: .553
8. Tampa 4-9 sos: .558
9. Cincinnati 5-8 sos: .475
10. Redskins 5-8 sos: .524

Most interesting is the Colts moving up. They are not giving up on Andrew Luck at this point. So, it's hard to imagine them drafting a QB, which means they will be trying to trade down and acquire more picks. And they could easily wind up with the #2 pick of the Draft if Denver beats them on Thursday.

You can see that coming too because the Colts are lifeless and the Broncos just won.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

The problem is if the Chargers keep winning which I think they will, our SOS will get higher.

[OrangeHoof]

The Colts had the excuse that their only play call Sunday was running Frank Gore behind a snow plow.

[Cugel]

The problem is if the Chargers keep winning which I think they will, our SOS will get higher.

But the Giants will keep losing, and so probably will the Colts and Redskins so that SOS will get worse. It's impossible to figure that stuff out before the end of the season.

[Rick]

If we don't land 1 of the top 3 QBs, I think move back a bit, select a OT, and then later trade back into first to get a CB, and go free agency route with a QB.

Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield or just pass.

[MOtorboat]

Hard pass on Mayfield. Hard pass.

[Cugel]

If we don't land 1 of the top 3 QBs, I think move back a bit, select a OT, and then later trade back into first to get a CB, and go free agency route with a QB.

Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield or just pass.

I think Elway is sick of this POS losing record and wants to get back to the sweet feeling of ticker tape falling down on his shoulders after a SB victory. For him there's nothing like that feeling in the world.

But, to get there he needs an elite QB. He's going to want to draft one and also find a veteran QB in FA. He's not going to use a top 10 pick on a guy unless he strongly feels that guy is a franchise Guy. He's failed twice because he was trying to find a bargain.

Osweiler was a 2nd round pick - developmental guy.

Lynch was available at #20 because his career at Memphis was in a spread offense, and he was considered a great athletic player, but a 2 year project.

Neither was ever considered by any of the teams in the top 10. This year is different. Broncos will be going after an elite QB prospect.

[Rick]

Elite is the key word. Drafting a guy just because he is considered a first round talent doesn't automatically fix the problem, see Lynch, a guy considered to be a first round talent.

If he isn't 1 of the top 3 guys and a true passing talent, I would pass.

Browns won't pass on a QB again.
Giants will take a QB.
Colts probably won't and may trade back.

If Elway wants one of the top 3 he will probably have to pay dearly for it, or happen to be 3rd pick, which at this point...may not happen.

If we don't get pick 1-3, someone else very well may out pay for the 3rd pick which could be a ransom pick for the Colts or 49ers should either of them get it.

So how exactly do you think the QB pick should be handled, take the next available guy just because he wears a number 1 through 10 on his back?

If you take a first round QB, there has to be an intangible that says this will be a franchise guy. With PL that was his athleticism. That doesn't look like it panned out.

[VonDoom]

Hard pass on Mayfield. Hard pass.

That's crazy talk, IMO. He's going to be good.

[underrated29]

I would go about targetting Rosen or Darnold.

If either are gone then I am going to shoot for Lamar/Allen/Mayfield in the 2nd rd....And with our pick I am going OT/DE/CB or perhaps that RB that is supposed to be so awesome. Frankly, I think id like Nick Chubb in the 3rd.

Let Lamar/Allen/Mayfield battle it out with Kelly and Oz next year, behind newest bookend T

[Rick]

I would go about targetting Rosen or Darnold.

If either are gone then I am going to shoot for Lamar/Allen/Mayfield in the 2nd rd....And with our pick I am going OT/DE/CB or perhaps that RB that is supposed to be so awesome. Frankly, I think id like Nick Chubb in the 3rd.

Let Lamar/Allen/Mayfield battle it out with Kelly and Oz next year, behind newest bookend T

I am with ya but I don't think Oz will be in the equation. It could be Kelly, Rookie and Bradford/Smith on a 2 year deal.

[BroncoJoe]

Siemian stays as a back up. OZ is gone. Who knows with Paxton.

[MOtorboat]

That's crazy talk, IMO. He's going to be good.

I think he’s a great college quarterback.

[Cugel]

Siemian stays as a back up. OZ is gone. Who knows with Paxton.

I think Siemian will want to leave and get a chance to start elsewhere. The Broncos are not going to commit to him long-term. Of course, he's still under contract, and Oz is not, but he would prefer to go somewhere he can get a multi-year deal, and that is not in Denver.

[Rick]

I don't think there is any place Simien can get a multi year deal.

He will have to go somewhere on a 1 year prove it to me year after the season he has had.

Last year he might have had a shot somewhere, but not after this past season.

[BroncoJoe]

I think Siemian will want to leave and get a chance to start elsewhere. The Broncos are not going to commit to him long-term. Of course, he's still under contract, and Oz is not, but he would prefer to go somewhere he can get a multi-year deal, and that is not in Denver.

I mean, LOL?

Siemian getting a long-term deal and a chance to start?

LOL.

I like the kid, but he's shown his colors.

[underrated29]

I am with ya but I don't think Oz will be in the equation. It could be Kelly, Rookie and Bradford/Smith on a 2 year deal.

I like that better. Much better. But Oz is so cheap right now. Lets tell elway about your idea cuz its much better.

[underrated29]

I mean, LOL?

Siemian getting a long-term deal and a chance to start?

LOL.

I like the kid, but he's shown his colors.



You mean, LOL?

WTF

You do or do not mean LOL, Joe?
I cannot even correct your grammar because I am not sure you are sure what you are saying and what you are saying I am not sure as to what you are saying.

[BroncoJoe]

You mean, LOL?

WTF

You do or do not mean LOL, Joe?
I cannot even correct your grammar because I am not sure you are sure what you are saying and what you are saying I am not sure as to what you are saying.

I mean, LOL.

Put down the snapchat.

[underrated29]

I mean, LOL.

Put down the snapchat.



Stop saying I mean and maybe I will tell the females in your life to stop snapping me :first:

[Rick]

I like that better. Much better. But Oz is so cheap right now. Lets tell elway about your idea cuz its much better.

He knows. We talk.

[MOtorboat]

Wait, so UR can snap chat, but he can’t put photos on a message board?

[Rick]

Wait, so UR can snap chat, but he can’t put photos on a message board?

No women involved, no incentive to learn.

[Cugel]

Elite is the key word. Drafting a guy just because he is considered a first round talent doesn't automatically fix the problem, see Lynch, a guy considered to be a first round talent.

If he isn't 1 of the top 3 guys and a true passing talent, I would pass.

Browns won't pass on a QB again.
Giants will take a QB.
Colts probably won't and may trade back.

If Elway wants one of the top 3 he will probably have to pay dearly for it, or happen to be 3rd pick, which at this point...may not happen.

If we don't get pick 1-3, someone else very well may out pay for the 3rd pick which could be a ransom pick for the Colts or 49ers should either of them get it.

So how exactly do you think the QB pick should be handled, take the next available guy just because he wears a number 1 through 10 on his back?

If you take a first round QB, there has to be an intangible that says this will be a franchise guy. With PL that was his athleticism. That doesn't look like it panned out.

If I was the Browns new GM I would not use the #1 overall pick on a Qb bring him in and have him beaten flat and ruined like every other one of their QBs because I have no talent around him. They've had tons of draft picks and they can't win a game. I'd stick with DeShone Kizer and try and develop him. Instead they are drafting another QB.

That is what losing teams do isn't it? Use a first round pick on a Qb every year?


Hue Jackson continues to stand behind the potential of DeShone Kizer, but the Cleveland Browns coach admitted the team’s quarterback situation could get awkward in 2018.

That’s because the Browns are certain to have one of the top two or three picks in the draft -- probably the first selection -- and likely would wind up with another highly drafted quarterback on the roster.

“It could be awkward,” Jackson told the media on Monday, after the Browns fell to 0-12 and 1-27 since he became the head coach. “That’s not a good problem because it means you’re losing. But I think it’s a problem that in this situation you want to have.

“I think we can’t have too many good quarterbacks right now on this football team.”
Hue Jackson continues to stand behind his belief that DeShone Kizer can be a winning quarterback in the NFL. Jake Roth-USA TODAY Sports

The Browns could bring back Kizer, draft a quarterback and even sign a free-agent QB, if they chose; they have enough salary-cap room to do so. Adding depth at the position, he said, is simply logical.

"That's just what you do," Jackson said.

What he means is "that is what you do if you are the Browns."

What they should do? Trade back, draft the best defensive player in the draft, and then take a QB later in the first round, and continue to develop Kizer. Is that ideal? No, but if you gave them a healthy Andrew Luck that would only delay their development. They need impact players and lots of them.

[Rick]

They missed the boat on a couple of quality QB picks recently, and traded away from drafting Wentz.

I don't think there is anyway they pass on that again. Who knows if any of the top guys this year is Wentz, but they won't take the chance on passing on the guy again.

[Cugel]

I don't think there is any place Simien can get a multi year deal.

He will have to go somewhere on a 1 year prove it to me year after the season he has had.

Last year he might have had a shot somewhere, but not after this past season.

He will get a "multi-year deal" but not more than a 1 year guaranteed contract. As for this season, if the Broncos look better in the last 3 games then he probably will get a look. The Browns would not be defeated every game if they had him. They'd still suck but not as bad.

[Cugel]

They missed the boat on a couple of quality QB picks recently, and traded away from drafting Wentz.

I don't think there is anyway they pass on that again. Who knows if any of the top guys this year is Wentz, but they won't take the chance on passing on the guy again.

Hue Jackson says you're right. But, if they had Wentz he would not be the QB who is currently leading the Eagles to 11-2.

They'd be better off getting all the rest of the pieces around their Qb first because they are not winning 6 games next year with the talent they have on their roster and will have another chance at a top 10 QB next year.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I would go about targetting Rosen or Darnold.

If either are gone then I am going to shoot for Lamar/Allen/Mayfield in the 2nd rd....And with our pick I am going OT/DE/CB or perhaps that RB that is supposed to be so awesome. Frankly, I think id like Nick Chubb in the 3rd.

Let Lamar/Allen/Mayfield battle it out with Kelly and Oz next year, behind newest bookend T

Allen won’t get out of the top ten. He is the total package physically. Then when he interviews well, which he will, he will shoot up draft boards.

I hope we draft Allen and stick with a run heavy offense the first year or two.

[OrangeHoof]

Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield or just pass.

Lamar Jackson says hello.

[Rick]

I love the athleticism but I'm majorly worried his accuracy.

[Cugel]

I love the athleticism but I'm majorly worried his accuracy.

I don't love the Johnny Manziel references much. Nobody wants to be compared with that useless chode.

[Hawgdriver]

I don't love the Johnny Manziel references much. Nobody wants to be compared with that useless chode.

Those are Mayfield comparisons, not Lamar Jackson.

[VonDoom]

Those are Mayfield comparisons, not Lamar Jackson.

They're also lazy Mayfield comparisons, since he's not really like Manziel as a player.

[Hawgdriver]

They're also lazy Mayfield comparisons, since he's not really like Manziel as a player.

I don't agree with the comparison. But unless I'm mistaken, they share these qualities:

undersized
athletic/footspeed
off-field questions
swagger
Heisman cred
gamer

I don't watch much college football though. Manziel would tuck and run more often, right?

[VonDoom]

I don't agree with the comparison. But unless I'm mistaken, they share these qualities:

undersized
athletic/footspeed
off-field questions
swagger
Heisman cred
gamer

I don't watch much college football though. Manziel would tuck and run more often, right?

In general, I would say that's accurate. I found this, though - gives a pretty good breakdown of this exact comparison:

http://waitingfornextyear.com/2017/11/to-evaluate-baker-mayfield-try-to-forget-johnny-football/

[HORSEPOWER 56]

In general, I would say that's accurate. I found this, though - gives a pretty good breakdown of this exact comparison:

http://waitingfornextyear.com/2017/11/to-evaluate-baker-mayfield-try-to-forget-johnny-football/

Here’s another long but interesting article about Mayfield.

http://http://www.nfl.com/labs/cfb247/baker-mayfield/baker-mayfield (http://www.nfl.com/labs/cfb247/baker-mayfield/baker-mayfield)

As of now, if we drafted a QB, he’d be my choice.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post
Those are Mayfield comparisons, not Lamar Jackson.


You are right.

I don't really have an opinion on who Elway should pick. The problem is that he is constantly going for an inside straight and busting when it comes to picking QBs.

You really have low probability of finding a star QB in the second round or even at #26 in the first round. Sure, it can happen (Drew Brees was #32) but it's so rare that it's not the way to bet.

Most of the really good QBs are taken in the top 15, and usually top 10. The problem is that everybody points to the exceptions like Tom Brady. Exceptions are rare of course.

Rather like this guy being married to this woman:

11558

Short bald dude normally doesn't wind up with Marilyn Monroe.

[OrangeHoof]

Arthur Miller wound up marrying Marilyn Monroe. Bad example.

[VonDoom]

McShay put out his first mock draft - he has us taking Josh Allen at #5 (ugh), with Darnold and Rosen going 1 and 2 to the Browns and Giants, respectively. He has the Chargers taking Mayfield at #19, which would make me sad.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

McShay put out his first mock draft - he has us taking Josh Allen at #5 (ugh), with Darnold and Rosen going 1 and 2 to the Browns and Giants, respectively. He has the Chargers taking Mayfield at #19, which would make me sad.

I’m scared shitless of Allen. He’s another giraffe with a big arm who has lost more games than he’s won and plays against inferior talent and with inferior talent. Another “big armed project”. If we wanted that, we should’ve just kept Sloter...

[Buff]

I’m scared shitless of Allen. He’s another giraffe with a big arm who has lost more games than he’s won and plays against inferior talent and with inferior talent. Another “big armed project”. If we wanted that, we should’ve just kept Sloter...

I don't know much about this year's prospects because I've all but retired from watching college football... But after reading a number of your posts I agree with your overall philosophy. You look at guys who succeed and they are the natural leaders, born winners - Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Carson Wentz. The QB intangible traits matter almost as much as their measurables...

You look at the last couple guys we drafted and it seems like Elway overweighted the physical requirements and underweighted the other stuff that's arguably more important.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I love Allen

[Nomad]

McShay put out his first mock draft - he has us taking Josh Allen at #5 (ugh), with Darnold and Rosen going 1 and 2 to the Browns and Giants, respectively. He has the Chargers taking Mayfield at #19, which would make me sad.

Has Darnold committed to the draft? I read where he's disappointed in his play this season, and may return?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I don't know much about this year's prospects because I've all but retired from watching college football... But after reading a number of your posts I agree with your overall philosophy. You look at guys who succeed and they are the natural leaders, born winners - Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Carson Wentz. The QB intangible traits matter almost as much as their measurables...

You look at the last couple guys we drafted and it seems like Elway overweighted the physical requirements and underweighted the other stuff that's arguably more important.

I think it’s what we need more than ever. I hate to bring him up, but can you imagine if Tebow could have read a coverage and thrown accurately from the pocket? With all the other intangibles? Man.

[VonDoom]

Has Darnold committed to the draft? I read where he's disappointed in his play this season, and may return?

No, and I don't think even Rosen officially has. But in order to do mock drafts, there must be speculation.

[Rick]

They will undoubtedly be the first 2 picks, they would be stupid not to enter.

[Cugel]

Arthur Miller wound up marrying Marilyn Monroe. Bad example.

And Kurt Warner was undrafted! And Russell Wilson was drafted in the third round. Not often though.

[Cugel]

I don't know much about this year's prospects because I've all but retired from watching college football... But after reading a number of your posts I agree with your overall philosophy. You look at guys who succeed and they are the natural leaders, born winners - Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Carson Wentz. The QB intangible traits matter almost as much as their measurables...

You look at the last couple guys we drafted and it seems like Elway overweighted the physical requirements and underweighted the other stuff that's arguably more important.

That is what Kyle Shanahan told Mark Schlereth. The college game is so different than the pros that it's very hard to evaluate college QBs for their ability to transition to the pro-game.

About all scouts have to go on is "he has elite arm talent" meaning he can make accurate throws. But, can he read NFL defenses in under 2 seconds? Can he learn to throw open receivers rather than waiting for the WR to get open, then throwing the ball, which they haven't time to do in the NFL.

[MOtorboat]

I think it’s what we need more than ever. I hate to bring him up, but can you imagine if Tebow could have read a coverage and thrown accurately from the pocket? With all the other intangibles? Man.

And this is the crux of the issue. He couldn’t read a defense or identify coverages and remember the playbook. The “born winner” stuff sounds fun, but I’m just as worried about the cerebral side of the position than the rah-rah stuff.

[MOtorboat]

I don't know much about this year's prospects because I've all but retired from watching college football... But after reading a number of your posts I agree with your overall philosophy. You look at guys who succeed and they are the natural leaders, born winners - Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Carson Wentz. The QB intangible traits matter almost as much as their measurables...

You look at the last couple guys we drafted and it seems like Elway overweighted the physical requirements and underweighted the other stuff that's arguably more important.

Mayfield doesn’t remind me of Wilson or Wentz. They are cerebral, intelligence, confident leaders who also played in systems that were conducive to transferring those skills to the pro game.

Mayfield is not cerebral in any way, his confidence comes across as arrogance and the system doesn’t really give me confidence that he can play the pro game.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56 View Post
I think it’s what we need more than ever. I hate to bring him up, but can you imagine if Tebow could have read a coverage and thrown accurately from the pocket? With all the other intangibles? Man.

And if I were totally hot and about 30 years younger, with all my other "intangibles" I could be dating a woman who looks like Nina Dobrev too for all that is worth. I.e. nothing.

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[HORSEPOWER 56]

And if I were totally hot and about 30 years younger, with all my other "intangibles" I could be dating a woman who looks like Nina Dobrev too for all that is worth. I.e. nothing.

11561

Don’t kid yourself. There’s only one intangible needed for women like that and it’s actually very tangible. It’s called money.

[Slick]

There's a very real possibility that Denver isn't even picking in the top 10 when all this is said and done. Latest Tankathon numbers have Denver picking 8th.

[Buff]

There's a very real possibility that Denver isn't even picking in the top 10 when all this is said and done. Latest Tankathon numbers have Denver picking 8th.

But hey - everybody feels really positive today after beating a bottom of the barrel colts team! Building a winning culture!

[Slick]

But hey - everybody feels really positive today after beating a bottom of the barrel colts team! Building a winning culture!

BRONCOS gonna win the next two! I'm so excited!

[Nomad]

BRONCOS gonna win the next two! I'm so excited!

Nah. Lynch is starting. Redskins are going to beat Denver badly on Christmas Eve. That's if Lynch can make it the whole game without getting hurt.

I do like how you think, though.

[Slick]

Nah. Lynch is starting. Redskins are going to beat Denver badly on Christmas Eve. That's if Lynch can make it the whole game without getting hurt.

I do like how you think, though.

LYNCH gonna come in and light those Redskins up! BRONCOS gonna do work!

Only people crying on the sidelines gonna be Redskins.

[Nomad]

LYNCH gonna come in and light those Redskins up! BRONCOS gonna do work!

Only people crying on the sidelines gonna be Redskins.

You sound a lot like me. You're even posting like me.....I like the optimism.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Nice, we’re back up to 6th. We can feasibly get as high as 4 if TB and HOU win their last game and we lose to KC.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Nice, we’re back up to 6th. We can feasibly get as high as 4 if TB and HOU win their last game and we lose to KC.

We’re tied with the 9ers now. I wouldn’t be surprised if they beat the Rams to close the season

[HORSEPOWER 56]

We’re tied with the 9ers now. I wouldn’t be surprised if they beat the Rams to close the season

We’re actually tied with the 49ers, Bears, and Jets at 5-10, but pick before all of them based on opponent win %. If the Texans and Bucs win their last game and we lose to KC, we’ll be tied with them at 5-11 and will move above both because of opponent win %. The table in the first post’s link is up to date and updates every week.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

We’re actually tied with the 49ers, Bears, and Jets at 5-10, but pick before all of them based on opponent win %. If the Texans and Bucs win their last game and we lose to KC, we’ll be tied with them at 5-11 and will move above both because of opponent win %. The table in the first post’s link is up to date and updates every week.

I don’t see the Bucs beating the Saints, but Houston should beat the Browns

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I don’t see the Bucs beating the Saints, but Houston should beat the Browns

The funny thing is, the Browns would be better off winning. There’s no way they lose #1 overall and if Houston loses, their other pick will be better. How funny is that? Win to improve your draft stock. They also wouldn’t go 0-16.

[VonDoom]

Houston is playing the Colts next week, not the Browns (though this is also a winnable game)

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Houston is playing the Colts next week, not the Browns (though this is also a winnable game)

I misunderstood. It’s their luck going to the Browns. They should beat the Colts

[VonDoom]

https://twitter.com/Jason_OTC/status/945658003671351303

[spikerman]

The good news is that the colts, Texans, and Bucs won’t be looking for QBS.

[VonDoom]

The good news is that the colts, Texans, and Bucs won’t be looking for QBS.

Teams can always trade into those spots, though, which is why it's hard to speculate anything as far as the draft yet. But I think the Browns and the Giants (or a team that's willing to pay big time for that Giants pick) will want QB's at the top. Of course, that's complicated by Darnold potentially not declaring, Rosen hinting that he doesn't want to declare if the Browns want him, etc.

[Nomad]

Teams can always trade into those spots, though, which is why it's hard to speculate anything as far as the draft yet. But I think the Browns and the Giants (or a team that's willing to pay big time for that Giants pick) will want QB's at the top. Of course, that's complicated by Darnold potentially not declaring, Rosen hinting that he doesn't want to declare if the Browns want him, etc.

USC/Ohio State tomorrow. Darnold will go up against a tough defense.

[BroncoJoe]

Sounds like Josh Gordon might stay in school to avoid playing for the Browns:

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http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/26/sounds-like-josh-rosen-really-doesnt-want-to-play-in-cleveland/

[Ziggy]

Sounds like Josh Gordon might stay in school to avoid playing for the Browns:

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http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/26/sounds-like-josh-rosen-really-doesnt-want-to-play-in-cleveland/

Not sure how that translates into staying in school. He'll be a high pick next year if he comes out too. I think he's just being honest, but I don't see him waiting another year to come out.

[Nomad]

Rosen sounds like he is full of himself. If he's that good, he should be able to turn the Browns franchise around.

[BroncoJoe]

Not sure how that translates into staying in school. He'll be a high pick next year if he comes out too. I think he's just being honest, but I don't see him waiting another year to come out.

Some players stock drops if they stay in school and don't have a great year, or they get hurt. It's a risk.

[Slick]

Rosen sounds like he is full of himself. If he's that good, he should be able to turn the Browns franchise around.

That's easy for us to say. We get to choose where we want to live and work. He doesn't. I wouldn't want to live in Cleveland or play for the Browns either.

[spikerman]

That's easy for us to say. We get to choose where we want to live and work. He doesn't. I wouldn't want to live in Cleveland or play for the Browns either.

Living in a mansion in Cleveland is probably not a bad life.

[NightTerror218]

The good news is that the colts, Texans, and Bucs won’t be looking for QBS.

Or the 49ers bears or Bengals. Browns giants jets are looking for QBs.

[spikerman]

Or the 49ers bears or Bengals. Browns giants jets are looking for QBs.

I was only looking at teams currently picking ahead of the Broncos.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Sounds like Josh Gordon might stay in school to avoid playing for the Browns:

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http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/26/sounds-like-josh-rosen-really-doesnt-want-to-play-in-cleveland/

Screw Rosen. Dude has already had 2 concussions this season and sat out his bowl game because of his second one. Mayfield FTW this draft.

[Magnificent Seven]

Draft a solid QB or sign a superstar QB?

[Krugan]

Draft a solid QB or sign a superstar QB?

Who is the superstar that WILL BE available?

[Magnificent Seven]

Who is the superstar that WILL BE available?

Heh, Brees? Luck?

[underrated29]

Luck is only available by trade and if we can trade for him we trade anything we can to do it, aside from Von and CHJ

[Cugel]

Who is the superstar that WILL BE available?

That is the $20m question. Even if the QB you draft (say Baker Mayfield) turns out to be a star, that still leaves the question what you do until the guy is ready.

A. Free Agents:

Kirk Cousins: Is Kirk Cousins going to be available at any price? Most reports out of DC indicate that there is "zero chance" that the Redskins just let him walk. They can transitional franchise tag him if they can't re-sign him to a long term deal. That gives them the chance to match any offer he gets from another team. The transition tag is $28m, but a team like Cleveland or the Jets have ginormous cap room. Some team is going to make him a ludicrous offer north of $30+m a year for 4 years.

Can the Broncos match that while paying Von Miller, $18m, DT $15, Aqib $12m, etc., etc. Not unless they just blow up their roster to make room. And even then they might easily be outbid.

Teddy Bridgewater or Case Keenum? One will be available. Bridgewater has now gotten back on the field. They believed in him before his injury. If he's the same player, they keep him and let Keenum walk. Would Keenum sign here? Maybe for about $25m a year. Is he worth it?

Alex Smith? He would have to be traded but there is zero chance the Chefs keep him at $20m. They are already putting Pat Mahomes into the game to get him ready for next season. If the Broncos drafted a QB, they could sign Alex Smith to play for a couple of seasons. Downside: this is the Osweiler track. It didn't work with Osweiler or Paxton. John Elway is not one to repeat mistakes.

Eli Manning just said that he wants to remain in NY. Now that they fired their coach who benched him, it's a good chance he stays.

Drew Brees. They can just pay him $30m. He wants to stay. They are in the playoffs. Why would they let him walk now? Would he even come here when the Broncos are a rebuilding team at 5-11? Probably not.

[Cugel]

More realistic options for Denver:

What if they drafted a Qb with a top 5 pick, (say Baker Mayfield ) and now they need a more reasonably priced Qb than Kirk Cousins or even Teddy Bridgewater or Eli Manning?

Well, there's a bunch of veterans who might be able to come in for a year or two until the rookie was ready:

Josh McCown. That could be an option.

Tyrod Taylor. The Bills don't want him. The Broncos might.

Blake Bortles? He could be through in Jacksonville and could command some interest.

Sam Bradford? That might be the most intriguing option for a 1 or two year commitment mentoring a rookie. No way he's back in Minnesota next year.

Another interesting possibility is AJ McCarron. He's currently litigating his FA status against the Bengals, and could wind up winning his case and hitting the FA market next year.

There's also Blaine Gabbert and Ryan Fitzpatrick, but I threw up a little in my mouth typing that sentence. Even for a short term deal, no way.

Now, NONE of these guys is a long term answer, but for a 1 year or 2 year commitment while you try and re-boot with the existing roster and not overpay your QB? Why not?

The point is, this is looking like possibly the best FA QB class in history. And a deep QB draft with no obvious #1 can't miss prospect (especially if Sam Darnold stays in college for one more year).

[Buff]

More realistic options for Denver:

What if they drafted a Qb with a top 5 pick, (say Baker Mayfield ) and now they need a more reasonably priced Qb than Kirk Cousins or even Teddy Bridgewater or Eli Manning?

Well, there's a bunch of veterans who might be able to come in for a year or two until the rookie was ready:

Josh McCown. That could be an option.

Tyrod Taylor. The Bills don't want him. The Broncos might.

Blake Bortles? He could be through in Jacksonville and could command some interest.

Sam Bradford? That might be the most intriguing option for a 1 or two year commitment mentoring a rookie. No way he's back in Minnesota next year.

Another interesting possibility is AJ McCarron. He's currently litigating his FA status against the Bengals, and could wind up winning his case and hitting the FA market next year.

There's also Blaine Gabbert and Ryan Fitzpatrick, but I threw up a little in my mouth typing that sentence. Even for a short term deal, no way.

Now, NONE of these guys is a long term answer, but for a 1 year or 2 year commitment while you try and re-boot with the existing roster and not overpay your QB? Why not?

The point is, this is looking like possibly the best FA QB class in history. And a deep QB draft with no obvious #1 can't miss prospect (especially if Sam Darnold stays in college for one more year).

See this is what I DON'T want us to do. Like the Bears signing Mike Glennon and then drafting Trubisky. What a waste of salary cap. If you're drafting a Top 5-10 QB, they should be on the field getting live reps immediately. If they aren't ready, then you shouldn't have drafted them that high.

Now if we took another middle round project QB then it makes some sense, but if we expend that draft capital for a franchise QB then there's no sense in delaying their ascendance.

[Krugan]

See this is what I DON'T want us to do. Like the Bears signing Mike Glennon and then drafting Trubisky. What a waste of salary cap. If you're drafting a Top 5-10 QB, they should be on the field getting live reps immediately. If they aren't ready, then you shouldn't have drafted them that high.

Now if we took another middle round project QB then it makes some sense, but if we expend that draft capital for a franchise QB then there's no sense in delaying their ascendance.

I agree 100%

Its why the Lynch choice left me wondering why as he clearly wasnt ready and went to high for a project, at least imo.

[VonDoom]

See this is what I DON'T want us to do. Like the Bears signing Mike Glennon and then drafting Trubisky. What a waste of salary cap. If you're drafting a Top 5-10 QB, they should be on the field getting live reps immediately. If they aren't ready, then you shouldn't have drafted them that high.

Now if we took another middle round project QB then it makes some sense, but if we expend that draft capital for a franchise QB then there's no sense in delaying their ascendance.

I actually disagree with this. I want our first round pick to be able to play right away but he might not be able to. Hence a veteran on the cheaper side. If the pick wins the job, great. If not, at least we have a serviceable player for now. You need to throw resources at the QB position and hope something sticks. In this case, that means more than one viable option to cover all bases

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I honestly don’t want a vet unless it’s someone with some life left. I don’t want a vet at the end of his career or one who isn’t ever going to be the guy. No Eli, no Brees, no Alex Smith. I’d be okay with Cousins or a trade for Luck but that’s about it. I don’t want Bridgewater either.

If we draft a guy, just roll with him. The league is so skewed toward the passing game and protecting QBs that they all need to start from day 1. If we suck again next year while we are breaking in the new guy, so be it. He can show his character.

[Buff]

I actually disagree with this. I want our first round pick to be able to play right away but he might not be able to. Hence a veteran on the cheaper side. If the pick wins the job, great. If not, at least we have a serviceable player for now. You need to throw resources at the QB position and hope something sticks. In this case, that means more than one viable option to cover all bases

I see a couple flaws in this logic:

1.) Why are we spending a Top 10 pick on a QB if they can't play right away? Who is the guy you'd be ok with in the Top 10 who isn't going to be ready? Further, even if they technically aren't ready, you still let them take their lumps a la Blake Bortles. If they turn into David Carr as a result then you made the wrong pick anyway.

2.) Part of my logic is that you actually DON'T have a serviceable player if you use those assets on a veteran QB who projects as a backup or borderline mediocre starter -- you are taking that salary cap space away from a potential contributor for peace of mind when you're probably better off with an Osweiler or journeyman who is going to give you the same production for a quarter of the price.

I think if we are drafting a Top 10 QB then he is the guy from minute 1. You bring in a backup who maybe can teach him the ropes but is obviously a backup. If we don't draft a Top 10 QB, then you look at signing a veteran.

[VonDoom]

I see a couple flaws in this logic:

1.) Why are we spending a Top 10 pick on a QB if they can't play right away? Who is the guy you'd be ok with in the Top 10 who isn't going to be ready? Further, even if they technically aren't ready, you still let them take their lumps a la Blake Bortles. If they turn into David Carr as a result then you made the wrong pick anyway.

2.) Part of my logic is that you actually DON'T have a serviceable player if you use those assets on a veteran QB who projects as a backup or borderline mediocre starter -- you are taking that salary cap space away from a potential contributor for peace of mind when you're probably better off with an Osweiler or journeyman who is going to give you the same production for a quarter of the price.

I think if we are drafting a Top 10 QB then he is the guy from minute 1. You bring in a backup who maybe can teach him the ropes but is obviously a backup. If we don't draft a Top 10 QB, then you look at signing a veteran.

Every situation is different, though. Think of picks one and two from two years ago. Goff didn't start right away (due to staff incompetence or just not being ready? Hard to say). He took lumps at the end of that year and turned into a real good QB this year. Wentz also wasn't supposed to start - the Eagles situation is actually more the way you should think instead of the Bears, but they were similar. Remember, free agency comes first, so the Eagles signed Bradford AND Chase Daniel, then STILL moved up to draft Wentz, who started the year as the third string QB. He impressed enough that they felt comfortable not only making an opportunistic trade of Bradford but moving Wentz up to start day one.

That's all I'm saying about our situation - the Eagles had multiple options at QB in case something went wrong. If we use a top 5 or 6 pick on a QB, yes, I'd like him to start right away. But what if he needs a bit of time (and I'm not saying 2-3 seasons like Lynch, but a quarter to half a season or something)? If he busts, then we screwed up but maybe we have a Tyrod Taylor or an Alex Smith to see us through. No FA QB looks like a long term answer to me, except maybe Cousins (in which case, this plan is off the table because it makes no sense to draft an early QB if we're paying oodles of bucks to Cousins). Anyone else is fair game, though, IMO. Bring in a bunch of guys, in any which way we can. Otherwise we're back to, "Well, we'll keep Siemian because he's cheap and our first round QB will automatically win the job." What if he doesn't? What if he gets hurt? We're right back where we are right now.

This is why I don't want to draft a guy like Allen, who will not be ready to start for some time. I want a guy who is READY to start, even if we don't start him right away as we work to refine him and get him out there. We've ***** footed around at QB for too long - time to devote serious resources to the position and have a plan b and c as well.

[Cugel]

I see a couple flaws in this logic:

1.) Why are we spending a Top 10 pick on a QB if they can't play right away? Who is the guy you'd be ok with in the Top 10 who isn't going to be ready? Further, even if they technically aren't ready, you still let them take their lumps a la Blake Bortles. If they turn into David Carr as a result then you made the wrong pick anyway.

2.) Part of my logic is that you actually DON'T have a serviceable player if you use those assets on a veteran QB who projects as a backup or borderline mediocre starter -- you are taking that salary cap space away from a potential contributor for peace of mind when you're probably better off with an Osweiler or journeyman who is going to give you the same production for a quarter of the price.

I think if we are drafting a Top 10 QB then he is the guy from minute 1. You bring in a backup who maybe can teach him the ropes but is obviously a backup. If we don't draft a Top 10 QB, then you look at signing a veteran.

Get ready to be mad or disappointed because Elway is clearly going to get a veteran staring QB who will be ready day 1 and drafting a QB in the top 10, probably top 5.

And what if that guy isn't Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen because those two QBs are taken by Cleveland and the Giants and those teams refuse to trade their picks?

What if, instead the pick is Baker Mayfield or Josh Allen, neither of whom are likely to be ready day one? Elway is going to get a QB if one available he likes at #5 or perhaps he'll trade back if he can find a trade partner and still get the QB he covets.

If the Browns sign a veteran QB who can start for multiple years like Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins then they might be willing to trade that pick, but it would cost a lot for the Broncos to move up to #1 from #5. At least 2 #1 picks and possibly a player or 2nd round pick in addition. Elway might not be willing to pay all that even for Sam Darnold.

So, the probability that Elway will draft a QB in the top 5 and yet not start that QB week 1 of the regular season is quite high actually.

By your ridiculous logic the Broncos ought to pass on drafting a QB because that guy might need some time to develop. Well, screw that! Elway is going to get a guy he feels has a bright future in the NFL for the next ten years, and it's not going to stop him if that guy isn't ready day 1.

I'm predicting right now and I'm going to be right about this: They are going to get a FA QB AND draft a QB in the top 10 picks. Both. And the veteran will probably start whether the fans like that or not.

[Cugel]

Salary cap logic does rule however. It's unlikely Elway wants to spend $20+ m on a veteran QB if he intends to draft a QB with a top 5 pick. More likely he's looking at someone like Tyrod Taylor, Josh McCown or Sam Bradford. Fans keep reacting to those guys like they are supposed to be long-term solutions and screaming "no! He sucks!" But none of those guys is likely to get $20m a year (I could be wrong there of course), and any could be available at a price the Broncos can afford, without getting rid of Talib, DT, Sanders, and other high priced players, thus blowing up the roster.

[Cugel]

If we use a top 5 or 6 pick on a QB, yes, I'd like him to start right away. But what if he needs a bit of time (and I'm not saying 2-3 seasons like Lynch, but a quarter to half a season or something)? If he busts, then we screwed up but maybe we have a Tyrod Taylor or an Alex Smith to see us through. No FA QB looks like a long term answer to me, except maybe Cousins (in which case, this plan is off the table because it makes no sense to draft an early QB if we're paying oodles of bucks to Cousins). Anyone else is fair game, though, IMO. Bring in a bunch of guys, in any which way we can. Otherwise we're back to, "Well, we'll keep Siemian because he's cheap and our first round QB will automatically win the job." What if he doesn't? What if he gets hurt? We're right back where we are right now.

This is why I don't want to draft a guy like Allen, who will not be ready to start for some time. I want a guy who is READY to start, even if we don't start him right away as we work to refine him and get him out there. We've ***** footed around at QB for too long - time to devote serious resources to the position and have a plan b and c as well.

Josh Allen looks pretty raw by the reports, but there's Elway scouting him at the "Fabulous Idaho Potato Bowl."

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Do you suppose he went there for fun?

I don't think we should get too hung up on Paxton Lynch. Lynch was NOT a top tier prospect at the time he was drafted. Even if not 100% ready for his rookie season, Allen and Mayfield could be. There were 2 teams that viewed Lynch as a first round pick, Broncos and Cowboys. He was probably more of a 2nd round selection, and few of those pan out.

Mayfield or Allen might be over-drafted at #5, but Elway might not have a choice. He can't wait till round 2 and get either of them, and he might not be able to trade back without some other team swooping up and grabbing either. That might not bother some fans, but they are not thinking straight. The Broncos MUST draft a QB this year and develop that guy as their long term answer. So, they have to take the best QB they can get and hope for the best. No choice.

I'm not going to argue the matter one way or another. You can object all you like, but it looks like Elway is either going to find a way to trade up to #2, which will be very expensive, for either Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen, or he's going to sit pat at #5 or so and take either Allen or Mayfield.

And he's clearly not going to rely on either of those guys being ready game one. In fact, he may well believe that the team could compete for a SB next year if only they had someone like Alex Smith or Sam Bradford on the roster.

I don't agree, but he very well might. That's more of the "re-boot, not re-build" mindset for you.

[Tbolt]

I think they will go hard after Cousins then draft BPA. I see so much bust potential in this years QB class. Hopefully Elway sees that too.

[Nomad]

I think they will go hard after Cousins then draft BPA. I see so much bust potential in this years QB class. Hopefully Elway sees that too.

Quetin Nelson is getting slot of buzz. 9ers are eyeing him.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

The fact that Eway watched him at the Famous Potatoes Bowl tells me we probably won’t draft him. Elway is a master of misdirection.

[underrated29]

The fact that Eway watched him at the Famous Potatoes Bowl tells me we probably won’t draft him. Elway is a master of misdirection.



I think that Elway wants to pimp him so someone takes him and someone else falls to us

[Rick]

I think that Elway wants to pimp him so someone takes him and someone else falls to us

Everyone knows Elway's track record with drafting QBs. If he shows interest Allen will go undrafted.

[VonDoom]

Elway is at Darnold’s game tonight and will be at Mayfield’s too. He’s on all the top QBs, as he should be

[Cugel]

The fact that Eway watched him at the Famous Potatoes Bowl tells me we probably won’t draft him. Elway is a master of misdirection.

But he's watching every top prospect. So, is it all misdirection and he plans to draft a T?

I doubt it. By the time of the draft everybody will know whether the Broncos are drafting a QB or not (did they land Kirk Cousins or Teddy Bridgwater or Case Keenum?). And they will know pretty much where each player is likely to fall. These teams spy on each other so much there are few secrets.

[Cugel]

As for going after Kirk Cousins, I don't think they will be able to afford him. The Redskins will use the transitional franchise tag on him, which guarantees him $28+m - which is the FLOOR for what he'll get.

So, he's guaranteed to be the highest paid QB under contract next year. They could just franchise him which guarantees him $34.5m. Insane.

But, if they transition tag him other teams can make offers. And if they don't match they get nothing for Cousins. So, teams are going to have to offer OVER $30m or the Redskins will simply match.

So, the price for Cousins is expected to be around $30m a year or MORE. Thirty million is basically the opening bid, and the sky's the limit.

Too much for Elway! And anybody sensible. No way Cousins is worth more than Brady or Drew Brees or Roethlisberger ever got.

[Nomad]

If Elway somehow lands Cousins, he should go after that guard from Notre Dame.

[Rick]

As for going after Kirk Cousins, I don't think they will be able to afford him. The Redskins will use the transitional franchise tag on him, which guarantees him $28+m - which is the FLOOR for what he'll get.

So, he's guaranteed to be the highest paid QB under contract next year. They could just franchise him which guarantees him $34.5m. Insane.

But, if they transition tag him other teams can make offers. And if they don't match they get nothing for Cousins. So, teams are going to have to offer OVER $30m or the Redskins will simply match.

So, the price for Cousins is expected to be around $30m a year or MORE. Thirty million is basically the opening bid, and the sky's the limit.

Too much for Elway! And anybody sensible. No way Cousins is worth more than Brady or Drew Brees or Roethlisberger ever got.

Such is contracts in the NFL. Every time a good FA comes up he has a chance to make more than the best in the league, that is just the way it works.

[underrated29]

Cousins will not get that much. It will not happen. I bet he gets around 20-26 mil per.
-------------------------------------------------

Im with you nomad. I can see us going after him or that DB, forgot his name. Perfect replacement for Talib. If, say we do land cousins (or someone of the like, eli, brees, etc) I could see us trading back a few spots (if someone wants to move up for the RB or a QB) and getting another 2nd at least.

We could then get the guard or the DB and in the 2nd round get someone like Chubb and Lamar Jackson to groom behind our FA QB.

I love that we need a QB and this is the year of FA and Draft for good QBs. If we can somehow land a solid T and ILB to go along with a G and a QB. WOw- our team could be very very sexy.

[Cugel]

Such is contracts in the NFL. Every time a good FA comes up he has a chance to make more than the best in the league, that is just the way it works.

Sure. And to some loser teams it will totally be worth it. Suppose you are a GM or coach for the Browns or Jets. How long can you continue to totally suck and lose every game and still keep your job Hue Jackson?

Getting Kirk Cousins would win them about 6 games at least, plus they could trade down from their #1 and #4 picks and stockpile picks and other talent.

On 104.3 the Fan today DMac was arguing that the Broncos will trade Aqib Talib to Cleveland with a pick in order to move up in the draft to #1 perhaps- and draft either Darnold or Rosen.

Don't bother saying DMac's a moron. That doesn't mean you can disregard what he says. The trade with Cleveland probably won't happen, but the Broncos will very definitely consider trading or cutting Talib because he's making too much money compared with Roby who is the future - much younger and cheaper. And Elway drafted him and he's a success story - Elway has few of these.

No way they will let him go, but they must make a decision over one of them for salary cap reasons.

They would get rid of Talib because Bradley Roby's contract goes from $1m to $8.5m in 2018. He's the future and they are now paying him WAY too much for him to continue to be the #3 CB. No #3 CB in football makes $8.5m. No team can afford to pay their top 3 CBs this incredible amount:

Harris: $10.3m
Talib: $12m
Roby $8.5
TOTAL: $30.8m

That is just way too much to devote to that position. They have other needs and have been grooming Roby to take over from Talib for years in order to trim salary cap. Plus, he's entering the last year of his contract and they need to re-sign him long term which will move him into more than $10m a year territory, just like Harris.

Talib can be cut or traded and there's only a $1m cap hit.

[Joel]

I think they will go hard after Cousins then draft BPA. I see so much bust potential in this years QB class. Hopefully Elway sees that too.
I really hope you're right, because chasing just one need when the team has so many it got a top ten (let alone top five) pick is a waste of a rare and painfully earned opportunity. Any team that has, say, the #3 overall pick yet invests it in the #23 athlete just because "we had a need, and he filled it better than anyone" gets no consolation except the high likelihood of another top pick to waste next year. If you're just one or two players away from a championship and drafting at #23 anyway, yeah, go ahead and fill that need instead of taking the #68 athlete so he can spend all his low-cost years riding pine behind a couple All Pros. But when you've got more needs than picks, you've got really GOOD picks, so make them count, because they won't last long.

I'd be happy with Cousins (or Smith, if KC decides the combination of Smiths salary and the first pro snap of Mahomes' career justifies making Mahomes next years starter.) Eli would be kind of a wet dream, though I doubt we could solidify our line before he was officially over the hill, and also doubt the Giants will dump him. Dear, God, not Brees: He turns 39 in two weeks, and has consistently shown he's only slightly above average unless he has the kind of solid supporting cast we can't provide.

[Hawgdriver]

Dear, God, not Brees: He turns 39 in two weeks, and has consistently shown he's only slightly above average unless he has the kind of solid supporting cast we can't provide.

The 39 part, sure. But I don't understand how you can make the other statement.

[Joel]

The 39 part, sure. But I don't understand how you can make the other statement.
Brees has had mostly bad seasons since his lone championship. Sure, he posts impressive stats, because the Saints never thrown <661 times nor run >431 (although, curiously, checking the precise figures reveals that Brees has thrown only 506 times this year, despite starting every game.) He also long benefited from the rest of his division being consistently awful until recent years, but since the emergence of Atlanta and then Carolina the Saints have missed the playoffs as often as not over the last half dozen years, only winning their division once (pending this seasons final games; NO is currently tied with Carolina overall but swept them for the tiebreak.) Even those three playoff seasons mostly ended badly; no one can forget the defending SB Champs losing the Beastquake game to the first LOSING playoff team in the NFLs 90-year history, the first of three times either SF or Seattle ended NOs season before it reached the NFCCG.

There's also the little matter of Brees playing half his career in a dome where he rarely loses, but performing dismally anywhere and everywhere else. It's fitting that his sole championship was against Peyton Manning, because he's kind of a poor mans Peyton: An immobile but precise pocket passer posting eye-popping regular season stats only to fizzle on the road in December and the playoffs.

[Slick]

Denver picking 5th according to link in OP.

[GEM]

SBnation reporting 5th position 21 min ago. :rockon:

[Rick]

Sucks we have to wait until the end of April for it... :(

[Hawgdriver]

Let the mock drafting begin!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Unless we can get one of the top two quarterbacks, I’d prefer we sign Cousins, develop Lynch and Kelly, and go BPA with the 5th pick.

Although Cleveland is probably the only team in the top 5 who will want a quarterback. So, there’s a good chance we could get Rosen, especially with him saying he wouldn’t want to play for Cleveland

[BroncoWave]

Unless we can get one of the top two quarterbacks, I’d prefer we sign Cousins, develop Lynch and Kelly, and go BPA with the 5th pick.

Although Cleveland is probably the only team in the top 5 who will want a quarterback. So, there’s a good chance we could get Rosen, especially with him saying he wouldn’t want to play for Cleveland

You don't think the Giants want a QB? They have nothing behind Eli, and he's basically at the end of the road.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

You don't think the Giants want a QB? They have nothing behind Eli, and he's basically at the end of the road.

I agree with you, but I heard the GM wants to stick with Eli, which means they may still draft a quarterback, or they could use that spot to draft an immediate impact player and fill a few holes in FA which would make them competitive again.

[BroncoWave]

I hope you're right. Would be great if we could get our future QB with this pick.

[pnbronco]

Denver picking 5th according to link in OP.

Thanks for the info Slick and Gem....

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I hope you're right. Would be great if we could get our future QB with this pick.

Well, someone is going to have to trade up to 4 to get one of the other of the two, so I’m really all over the place with this one :D

[Joel]

Unless we can get one of the top two quarterbacks, I’d prefer we sign Cousins, develop Lynch and Kelly, and go BPA with the 5th pick.
First and foremost, I fully concur with this: The wisdom of BPA is directly proportional to draft position (i.e. the proximity of the "available" and "best" players.) Also...:


Although Cleveland is probably the only team in the top 5 who will want a quarterback. So, there’s a good chance we could get Rosen, especially with him saying he wouldn’t want to play for Cleveland
Don't make me tap the screen (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/607418-Practice-press-conference-notes-week-17-(Chiefs-week)?p=2704451#post2704451). ;)

Last week ensured us a top three QB prospect IF we want one, but that improved to top two when we lost and both Tampa and SF won today.

I didn't calculate the tiebreaks yesterday, because it was and remains a lot of hassle, since draft tiebreaks differ from playoff tiebreaks: It goes 1) SoS, 2) division record for teams within the same division, 3) conference record for teams within the same conference and finally 4) coin flip. ESPN quotes Legwold also saying we draft #5, so I'll take everyones word we lost (won?) the SoS tiebreaks with the Jets, Tampa and Chicago.

Regardless, the Jets and Browns were the only teams both competing with us for draft position and unambiguously in need of a QB. That surely worries those who want to draft a QB, because both those FOs are unpredictably incompetent. For example, despite their inept few alternatives, the Jets didn't draft ANY QBs this year, and the 2nd rounder they drafted last year STILL hasn't taken a pro snap. I can only assume their GM considers their pass protection even worse than ours.

[Cugel]

Unless we can get one of the top two quarterbacks, I’d prefer we sign Cousins, develop Lynch and Kelly, and go BPA with the 5th pick.

Although Cleveland is probably the only team in the top 5 who will want a quarterback. So, there’s a good chance we could get Rosen, especially with him saying he wouldn’t want to play for Cleveland

Elway can definitely trade up from #5 if he wants to pay the price.

Cleveland #1
Giants #2
Colts #3
Cleveland #4
Denver #5 (weaker strength of schedule than the 5-11 Jets, 5-11 Bucs and 5-11 Bears - I can't believe how lucky they were to get the tie-breaker over all three of those teams with the same record - this was very nearly a disastrous win that would have plummeted their drafts stock to #9).

Browns: The Browns could try and trade their #1 pick and take a QB with their #4 pick, stockpiling an extra pick or two. It would depend on who they liked - if they could get him at #4. They could also try and land a FA veteran to start and trade out of both picks, but this is less likely.

So, Elway could potentially move up to #1. Very costly.

#2 Giants - They need a QB, but again it depends on who they want. They are keeping Eli for another year or two so they can bring in a guy and develop him for a year or two without pressure. This will be the ideal opportunity for whatever new head coach they select to get rolling with a new QB and new coaching regime.

Most likely they keep this pick and use it.

#3 Colts - The Colts win moved them from #2 to #3. They are still a possible trade target for John Elway. Of course, the Colts will be looking to deal this pick since they have Andrew Luck, and can acquire more picks to get some talent around him by trading back.

So, Elway could want to move here if he felt the need to avoid some other team jumping ahead of him to grab his QB. This would probably be Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield at this point, because Darnold & Rosen are likely to go off the board 1-2.

Cleveland #4. This is also a move up target, whether the Browns take a QB #1 overall or not. Cleveland would possibly black-mail the Broncos into swapping picks by dangling the pick to other teams that would jump ahead of the Broncos and grab a QB.

Cleveland would know that if the Broncos moved up it would be for a QB, and therefore would know whether to trade back with them or not (i.e. have they already drafted their QB or not? If not, then they wouldn't trade back with Denver unless they wanted a different QB than the Broncos).

So, you can see there's all kinds of trade possibilities. Elway could do anything from trade back out of the #6 spot because he's already signed a FA veteran QB, to trading up to #1 and taking Darnold or Rosen.

[Cugel]

BTW: Those fans hoping that the Broncos sign Kirk Cousins and then are able to use their picks on impact players, you will probably be disappointed.

Elway is going to be priced out of the Cousins bidding by other teams with a lot more cash$$$. Cousins is expected to get over $30m a year. The Redskins will not let him go for less than that (reports out of DC that they intend to transition tag him in hopes of matching another team's offer), so either they re-sign him to a long term deal somewhere around $30m a year, or they transition tag him and try and match whatever offers he gets. That will be more expensive, but they have been unable to reach a deal with him and he won't agree to one now when he has all the leverage of getting other teams into a bidding war for him.

I suppose it's possible Elway gives him a $30m a year contract, but I would be shocked.

More likely would be to sign either Case Keenum or Teddy Bridgewater to a long term veteran FA deal. In that case the Broncos probably don't draft a QB as high as #5.

[Cugel]

The third possibility is that Elway signs a veteran QB like Sam Bradford, makes a trade for Alex Smith, or signs a lower tier veteran like possibly Ryan Tannehill if the Dolphins decide to ditch him.

Or, there's AJ McCarron, who will garner quite a bit of interest if he wins his court case against the league alleging that he's a UFA.

Somewhat less probably there's Josh McCown and Ryan Fitzpatrick, who could be viewed as cheap starters until a rookie QB draft pick was ready to start. Frankly, those guys wouldn't be any better than Trevor Siemian though so no point bringing them in.

[Joel]

I'd be fine with Smith (whom I still consider very underrated) Cousins or Bradford (presuming we have a good enough line to keep the last one healthy.) That said, the Giants would be out of their minds to spend a top three pick on a QB when they still have a 37-year-old Eli Manning—especially since their inability to PROTECT a QB has been the bane of not only Mannings 2017 season, but his whole career. Anyone think a rookie would fare better than a two-time SB Champ?

Elway, in turn, would be out of his mind to trade up from #5 when draft picks are so hideously overvalued, ESPECIALLY if he wants a top QB prospect when all but ONE of the few teams drafting ahead of us are already heavily invested in one. Maybe it's a fantasy league thing; does carrying half a dozen starting QBs work there? :confused:

[VonDoom]

https://twitter.com/nickkorte/status/947644928598753280

[BroncoWave]

6 of the first 112 picks gives us a ton of chances to deepen our roster. If there has ever been a draft Elway needed to nail, it's this one.

[LawDog]

6 of the first 112 picks gives us a ton of chances to deepen our roster. If there has ever been a draft Elway needed to nail, it's this one.

Hopefully he nails it like an ex-raiderette.

[Nomad]

And with the 5th pick Denver selects......Quenton Nelson (Notre Dame). Cant move back because SF will get him.

[Rick]

Please please please don't be another tall stiff with great athleticism but needs time to grow...

[Nomad]

Please please please don't be another tall stiff with great athleticism but needs time to grow...

Yeah.....it'll probably be Allen with the 5th pick. :lol:

[Hawgdriver]

And with the 5th pick Denver selects......Quenton Nelson (Notre Dame). Cant move back because SF will get him.

I wouldn't mind the pick if he's the best player in college football as some suggest, but McGovern and Leary seem adequate. Garcia keeps starting for some reason, but he seemed well below average on passing downs. LT/RT and QB are major issues, if we can get BPA and fill a hole, super.

[MOtorboat]

Please please please don't be another tall stiff with great athleticism but needs time to grow...

Nick Stevens.

Book it.

[Nomad]

I wouldn't mind the pick if he's the best player in college football as some suggest, but McGovern and Leary seem adequate. Garcia keeps starting for some reason, but he seemed well below average on passing downs. LT/RT and QB are major issues, if we can get BPA and fill a hole, super.

Tune in to ABC. Notre Dame/LSU as we speak.

[Hawgdriver]

on it. thanks

[Nomad]

on it. thanks

I usually never get on an individual player's bandwagon, last one was Ngata. He turned out pretty good.

[Nomad]

BTW...I'd be pleased with either Olineman from ND. I'm just not a fan of any of the top QBs . But, if Talib is walking, I could see Denver going after a DB.

[Rick]

grab a stud OL and go hard after Cousins.

[Nomad]

I am interested to see what Mayfield can do against that stout Georgia defense.

[Cugel]

I really hope you're right, because chasing just one need when the team has so many it got a top ten (let alone top five) pick is a waste of a rare and painfully earned opportunity. Any team that has, say, the #3 overall pick yet invests it in the #23 athlete just because "we had a need, and he filled it better than anyone" gets no consolation except the high likelihood of another top pick to waste next year. If you're just one or two players away from a championship and drafting at #23 anyway, yeah, go ahead and fill that need instead of taking the #68 athlete so he can spend all his low-cost years riding pine behind a couple All Pros. But when you've got more needs than picks, you've got really GOOD picks, so make them count, because they won't last long.

I'd be happy with Cousins (or Smith, if KC decides the combination of Smiths salary and the first pro snap of Mahomes' career justifies making Mahomes next years starter.) Eli would be kind of a wet dream, though I doubt we could solidify our line before he was officially over the hill, and also doubt the Giants will dump him. Dear, God, not Brees: He turns 39 in two weeks, and has consistently shown he's only slightly above average unless he has the kind of solid supporting cast we can't provide.

Eli and Brees are staying put, so they're out. It's unlikely the Chefs would trade Alex Smith within the division, but I suppose it could conceivably happen. As for Kirk Cousins, I've never believed the Broncos will have the cap room to sign him at around $30m a year.

Most likely they either sign a top flight FA like Case Keenum or Teddy Bridgewater, whichever Qb the Vikings don't keep.

Or they go with a former starter like Sam Bradford with the idea he can start until the rookie (Josh Allen?) can get ready. But, all those guys like Bradford will be looking for long-term starter jobs and won't want to come here. If they make an offer to Keenum or Bridgewater, they will be paying around $20m so it wouldn't make sense to go out and draft a QB in the top 5.

And Elway is clearly looking to draft a QB in the top 5. He's scouting all the top rated QBs and going over his options. He's now got the #5 pick and can either move up to grab a top 2 or 3 QB if he wants, or sign a veteran and trade back and get a developmental QB later in the first round or second round.

Most likely he's going to get a top 5 pick though.

[Nomad]

Georgia/Oklahoma on ESPN for all those on the Mayfield bandwagon.

[Slick]

My first look at Mayfield.

[Nomad]

My first look at Mayfield.

His first drive was really impressive, especially against this Georgia defense.

[Slick]

His first drive was really impressive, especially against this Georgia defense.

He is accurate. Is he going to spend the entire game in the shotgun/pistol and looking at his coach on the sidelines? That is the red flag for me so far.

[Nomad]

He is accurate. Is he going to spend the entire game in the shotgun/pistol and looking at his coach on the sidelines? That is the red flag for me so far.

You have a point. I haven't seen him play under center once, perhaps I missed it. This may be the second OU game I watch this year.

[Hawgdriver]

BTW...I'd be pleased with either Olineman from ND. I'm just not a fan of any of the top QBs . But, if Talib is walking, I could see Denver going after a DB.

I'm in this camp too.

But QB is important so I understand taking the risk.

[Hawgdriver]

He is accurate. Is he going to spend the entire game in the shotgun/pistol and looking at his coach on the sidelines? That is the red flag for me so far.

Works for Goff :lol:

[Nomad]

I'm in this camp too.

But QB is important so I understand taking the risk.

Right now, I'm holding out hope Elway gets Cousins in Denver.

[Rick]

Perfect scenario, we go OL in first, sign Cousins, go DB in second or trade back into first for a DB.