View Full Version : Vance Joseph accepts blame for Broncos' skid
Denver Native (Carol)
11-07-2017, 10:32 AM
ENGLEWOOD - Lose like the Broncos did against the Philadelphia Eagles, and blame is no longer directed at the quarterback, or offensive line.
It’s bigger than that.
The guy catching some flak now is the head coach.
To Vance Joseph’s credit, he is accepting blame to the point he admits changes to his coaching methods must be made.
“Well, you have to change something,’’ Joseph said. “We can’t continue to go down the same path and expect different results. That’s insanity, right? So we have to change something whether it’s personnel, whether it’s how we game plan, how we call plays, how we play as a football team together, offensively and defensively and (special) teams together. That’s also a thought. But, I’ve got to figure it out. That’s obviously being explored.’’
This is not Josh McDaniels, who seven and eight years ago was too volatile to lead a room full of men.
Joseph has a strong presence. He has a straightforward, calm, composed delivery.
He was asked specifically if he was satisfied with the offensive play-calling
rest - http://www.9news.com/sports/vance-joseph-accepts-blame-for-broncos-skid/489698037
Freyaka
11-07-2017, 10:40 AM
rest - http://www.9news.com/sports/vance-joseph-accepts-blame-for-broncos-skid/489698037
“Well, you have to change something,’’ Joseph said. “We can’t continue to go down the same path and expect different results. That’s insanity, right? So we have to change something whether it’s personnel, whether it’s how we game plan, how we call plays, how we play as a football team together, offensively and defensively and (special) teams together. That’s also a thought. But, I’ve got to figure it out. That’s obviously being explored.’’
That lends credence to the rumors from 104.3 that we're switching from McCoy's offense to Musgraves.
Denver Native (Carol)
11-07-2017, 10:46 AM
That lends credence to the rumors from 104.3 that we're switching from McCoy's offense to Musgraves.
If that is true, does that mean that McCoy is out?
Freyaka
11-07-2017, 10:48 AM
If that is true, does that mean that McCoy is out?
You would think he would have to be...You wouldn't want McCoy calling Musgrave's offense, what good does that do? The problem isn't McCoy's scheme, it's his playcalling so you would have to assume if you are switching to Musgrave's offense, you'd also give him playcalling duties, but who knows...Hopefully we'll start hearing more information soon.
They could always promote McCoy to offensive assistant HC, give Musgrave playcalling and OC duties and still keep them all involved.
Hawgdriver
11-07-2017, 10:49 AM
What is McCoy's grade through 8 games anyway? I'd guess it's a D or a C. I understand his personnel limitations, but still...
I'll leave this to someone with more insight.
Denver Native (Carol)
11-07-2017, 10:50 AM
Video with Mark Schlereth on 104.3 the fan - interesting
http://1043thefan.com/162948/schlereth-broncos-garbage-formation/
BeefStew25
11-07-2017, 11:02 AM
Video with Mark Schlereth on 104.3 the fan - interesting
http://1043thefan.com/162948/schlereth-broncos-garbage-formation/
And we don't have a QB that could ever get to the third read (and prolly not the second).
The system has to be adjusted to fit the personnel. That is the issue. Dumb down the offense and grind it out. That is the only chance they have...at least for this season.
wayninja
11-07-2017, 12:31 PM
Isn't McCoy famous for successfully adjusting Scheme to personnel?
Maybe it wasn't the scheme after all...
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-07-2017, 01:29 PM
Isn't McCoy famous for successfully adjusting Scheme to personnel?
Maybe it wasn't the scheme after all...
That’s what I thought
MOtorboat
11-07-2017, 01:35 PM
Video with Mark Schlereth on 104.3 the fan - interesting
http://1043thefan.com/162948/schlereth-broncos-garbage-formation/
Ugh. Limiting the offense severely by personnel.
NightTrainLayne
11-07-2017, 01:40 PM
Ugh. Limiting the offense severely by personnel.
Sometimes you gain by subtraction.
Although Schlereth didn't give any evidence that 12 (or 21 or 22) personnel would be any more successful at anything.
MOtorboat
11-07-2017, 01:42 PM
Sometimes you gain by subtraction.
Although Schlereth didn't give any evidence that 12 (or 21 or 22) personnel would be any more successful at anything.
He's advocating for just turning into a power run team pretty exclusively. That's fine. The quarterbacks aren't really good enough to run a multiple offense effectively. I just hate that offense. The personnel actually limits what you can do and takes all your speed off the field. I understand why they would do that, though.
Isn't McCoy famous for successfully adjusting Scheme to personnel?
Maybe it wasn't the scheme after all...
If you give him credit for Tebow's wins, yeah. That is what that nonsense is based on.
dogfish
11-07-2017, 01:43 PM
MO, we're limited by our personnel regardless of who's on the field. . .
NightTrainLayne
11-07-2017, 01:45 PM
He's advocating for just turning into a power run team pretty exclusively. That's fine. The quarterbacks aren't really good enough to run a multiple offense effectively. I just hate that offense. The personnel actually limits what you can do and takes all your speed off the field. I understand why they would do that, though.
Well, it might be the difference between being able to execute something vs. failing at everything else.
wayninja
11-07-2017, 01:46 PM
If you give him credit for Tebow's wins, yeah. That is what that nonsense is based on.
A tebow-less McCoy suddenly looks like less of a personnel master, and more like a 1 trick pony.
But let's take the Tebow scheme, and apply it to Brockweiler and see how it goes.
A tebow-less McCoy suddenly looks like less of a personnel master, and more like a 1 trick pony.
But let's take the Tebow scheme, and apply it to Brockweiler and see how it goes.
I know you are joking, but that isn't a bad idea. They really should limit the passing game in an extreme way and just grind it out. It will help the strength of their team (the defense) and limit their weakness (pass blocking and QB play). I'm just a dumb internet troll, but it's the only way to right the ship IMO.
NightTerror218
11-07-2017, 01:50 PM
I think the problem is personnel and scheme. All QBs have drastically diff attributes and trying to make all 3 run same offense won't work. Siemian is a play action guy, oz likes to go deep, lynch likes to be on move. How do you change an offense that can fit all. You can't. You need to pick a QB and run the offense with that 1 and change playbook to that 1.
Offense has been run heavy to favor siemian and play action but teams shut down run and shut down Siemian. Lynch is better for kubiak type system with bootlegs and moving around.
wayninja
11-07-2017, 01:52 PM
I know you are joking, but that isn't a bad idea. They really should limit the passing game in an extreme way and just grind it out. It will help the strength of their team (the defense) and limit their weakness (pass blocking and QB play). I'm just a dumb internet troll, but it's the only way to right the ship IMO.
I'm not really joking, it's my understanding that this is exactly what they plan to do.
It's not a "bad" idea given our struggles passing, but it's extremely funny to me that you get rid of the guy this scheme was designed for and draft guys that this should basically never be applied to, and roll with it. It's funny.
I'm not really joking, it's my understanding that this is exactly what they plan to do.
It's not a "bad" idea given our struggles passing, but it's extremely funny to me that you get rid of the guy this scheme was designed for and draft guys that this should basically never be applied to, and roll with it. It's funny.
Where did you hear that is what they plan to do? I hope that is true, but I haven't heard that at all.
MOtorboat
11-07-2017, 01:56 PM
A tebow-less McCoy suddenly looks like less of a personnel master, and more like a 1 trick pony.
But let's take the Tebow scheme, and apply it to Brockweiler and see how it goes.
The Tebow offense was just as bad as this one, if not worse. Doing that with Osweiler would be stupid. I'm fine with going tight, but to try and run the wing-T with our offensive personnel would be dumb.
MOtorboat
11-07-2017, 01:57 PM
Well, it might be the difference between being able to execute something vs. failing at everything else.
I think I'm acknowledging that.
The Tebow offense was just as bad as this one, if not worse. Doing that with Osweiler would be stupid. I'm fine with going tight, but to try and run the wing-T with our offensive personnel would be dumb.
I think he was just saying convert to a run first offense (and second and third and fourth).
wayninja
11-07-2017, 01:58 PM
Where did you hear that is what they plan to do? I hope that is true, but I haven't heard that at all.
I think I misspoke. I think the suggestion by analysts is that they go run-heavy/grind, not that they've publicly stated this strategy.
I was never that impressed with McCoy.
I always felt he lucked into the SD job because he was gifted Manning.
wayninja
11-07-2017, 02:01 PM
The Tebow offense was just as bad as this one, if not worse. Doing that with Osweiler would be stupid. I'm fine with going tight, but to try and run the wing-T with our offensive personnel would be dumb.
1 dimensional offenses usually are terrible.
Freyaka
11-07-2017, 02:02 PM
I think I misspoke. I think the suggestion by analysts is that they go run-heavy/grind, not that they've publicly stated this strategy.
I've heard we're moving to Musgrave's style of offense.
Tebow offense was run, run, run for 3.75 quarters then...garbage time! Throw, Throw, Throw!
I've heard we're moving to Musgrave's style of offense.
What is his "style"?
I think he is a west coast guy.
MOtorboat
11-07-2017, 02:07 PM
What is his "style"?
He's run a West Coast Offense in the past.
Freyaka
11-07-2017, 02:26 PM
What is his "style"?
West Coast, it's the offense that the Raiders were so successful with last season, he was their OC.
BroncoJoe
11-07-2017, 02:28 PM
West Coast, it's the offense that the Raiders were so successful with last season, he was their OC.
And also had a capable QB...
Freyaka
11-07-2017, 03:09 PM
And also had a capable QB...
Hey! That's enough negativity out of you Joe....
Cugel
11-07-2017, 03:16 PM
Hey! That's enough negativity out of you Joe....
Would you prefer some pomposity? No? OK. If you want positivity, here you go:
11386
That's about as positive as it gets!
wayninja
11-07-2017, 03:17 PM
Can she throw?
Cugel
11-07-2017, 03:17 PM
Can she throw?
Probably better than Brock Osweiler!
11387
And she has as good a grasp of the offense as Paxton Lynch!
Freyaka
11-07-2017, 03:26 PM
Probably better than Brock Osweiler!
11387
And she has as good a grasp of the offense as Paxton Lynch!
Would you prefer some pomposity? No? OK. If you want positivity, here you go:
11386
That's about as positive as it gets!
https://i.imgur.com/OgRYlDc.gif
wayninja
11-07-2017, 03:28 PM
As fun as this is, we have opt in threads for this stuff.
Freyaka
11-07-2017, 03:33 PM
As fun as this is, we have opt in threads for this stuff.
Yes...you are correct, probably should call that good enough for today. Never thought I'd say this, but thanks Wayninja for being the responsible adult here.
Of course, not to be the Debbie downer or anything, but Kubiak ran a west coast offense as well and our offense was shit under him too.
BroncoJoe
11-07-2017, 05:52 PM
As fun as this is, we have opt in threads for this stuff.
#FirstWarningFired
#NewMOD
As fun as this is, we have opt in threads for this stuff.
Shut it, NTL jr.
We are running this show.
Freyaka
11-07-2017, 08:11 PM
Shut it, NTL jr.
We are running this show.
I'd say something about the inmates running the prison, but apparently that pissed off a bunch of players in Houston.
Timmy!
11-07-2017, 08:12 PM
As fun as this is, we have opt in threads for this stuff.
Ninja, flashing the badge.
DT88TheGreat
11-07-2017, 08:40 PM
rest - http://www.9news.com/sports/vance-joseph-accepts-blame-for-broncos-skid/489698037
A true leader of men, Josh McDaniel would never accept any blame or change anything! Vance still has the respect of his team and to question it is foolish imo. The Broncos just have one major flaw on a great defense and that's a stud MLB like Roquan Smith out of Georgia, he is the missing link and would instantly be an upgrade is guarding backs and tightend when he's called upon, his play recognition ability is outstanding ad I won't even speak on his natural athleticI ability which is beyond Elite.
https://youtu.be/gtqI3BQMtl0 check this beast out!
https://youtu.be/OZhCNVPcz5o
DT88TheGreat
11-07-2017, 08:42 PM
If that is true, does that mean that McCoy is out?
Musgrave was brung here to.eventually be a OC anyway so I wouldn't be suprised
DT88TheGreat
11-07-2017, 08:50 PM
West Coast, it's the offense that the Raiders were so successful with last season, he was their OC.
You mean the offense that has the quarterback launching from different spots in the pocket? Moving around that fits lynch more than any of the other guy's minus Chad kelly? Hurry up and install musgrave offense then, after we get smacked around by the pats itll be lynch turn.
DT88TheGreat
11-07-2017, 08:52 PM
Of course, not to be the Debbie downer or anything, but Kubiak ran a west coast offense as well and our offense was shit under him too.
There are different version's of the west coast offense. They have some of the same concepts but schemes and play calling along with personnel makes them unique.
wayninja
11-07-2017, 09:54 PM
Ninja, flashing the badge.
Yep, I'm pretty sure that's why they call me the flasher.
Shut it, NTL jr.
We are running this show.
Really? You think we are going to let the inmates run the prison?
I'd say something about the inmates running the prison, but apparently that pissed off a bunch of players in Houston.
****, every time I have a good line, I find someone has already used it. :mad:
Really? You think we are going to let the inmates run the prison?
Take it easy, rich white owner.
Take it easy, rich white owner.
That's racist, offensive and insensitive.
That's racist, offensive and insensitive.
You know me so well!!
Cugel
11-07-2017, 10:50 PM
So the season was in reality doomed from training camp, when they were forced to name Trevor Siemian as the starter because he clearly beat out Paxton Lynch. Only he was a journeyman QB who can succeed IF and only if you have an elite OL and playmakers all around him to support him. And then only if you don't ask too much.
He's Kyle Orton #2. He can do OK for a while, but then teams start seriously game-planning to take away what he can do and force him to do things he doesn't do well - like making tough throws under pressure. And the things he doesn't do well, he REALLY doesn't do well because he lacks athletic talent.
Well, starting Trevor was not ever Plan A. It was Plan E after (A) Peyton retired early due to injury, (B) Brock left town and then (F) sucked when he returned, (C) Butt-Fumbler who was supposed to start until Paxton was ready, fumbled his way out of town, and (D) Paxton came into the league clueless and stayed that way for 2 years.
Normally, when a team is down to Plan F at QB it's not going to go well. And it hasn't. True, Joe Woods is not measuring up to Wade Phillips, Mike McCoy's offense is clueless and hopelessly scoring about 14 points a game, and VJ seems lost out there.
But, even if all those coaching problems weren't happening, this Broncos team has no chance of winning a SB - because they don't have an elite QB. And no, 2015 is not relevant because (1) the defense is not the same without Danny Trevathan, HOF DeMarcus Ware and Malik Jackson, and they seem to be missing TJ Ward too. Oh, and there's that small factor that you don't have Peyton's leadership.
It's no accident that the team played with a LOT more intensity in 2012-2015 than it does now. Peyton would curse out anybody for screwing up. So they were afraid to screw up. Now they just shrug.
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