Mike Shanahan?

[Shazam!]

I know people will say this is crazy, but i was thinking last night. Just hear me out.

We all wanted to run Shanahan out of town, but lets be real: He overstayed. Messages got stale. Defensive decline. Bad personnel moves. The move to Cutler over Plummer was his demise (see Sundquist, Ted).

However, this is a different day and Shanahan is wiser.

Elway has brought back former Broncos before. With Shanhan working WITH Elway and not having full control over personnel, I can see it.

It would be a quick transition. Quality Defense and a great Coaching Staff are in place (Woods). He would need to focus on STs.

Shanahan and son Kyle had an excellent relationship with Kirk Cousins. IF Denver is committed to going this route, I can see this as a major drawing point for Cousins to come to Denver.

I can certainly see it. Shanahan can come in immediately as he knows the organization. He would be vast improvement over what we have seen i think. Joseph is not ready IMO.

I also say if Denver comes out dead again in KC, Joseph needs to be fired upon his return to Denver. Who else can they bring in with such short notice other than Shanahan? There's still a LOT of football left, and I know Elway won't throw in the towel like that.

With the state of the offense and all these young QBs he can certainly help. And if we want Cousins it may be the best way to acquire him.

Thoughts?

[Timmy!]

:lol:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/82/41/ae824171f2525a18d6002e8b267cbd01.jpg

[Shazam!]

I hear ya Tim. But, if Denver not only gets destroyed, but comes out flat, dead, lifeless, again... What else is there to do? Start for 2018? At 3-4? This won't be accepted by the Season ticket holders.

Once the Defense throws in the towel, not wanting to continue to kill themselves and risk injury for nothing, this thing can get a whole lot worse.

If they get whacked again, and there is another performance like weve seen the past two weeks, Joseph gotta go ASAP. And believe it that Elway doesnt want to continue to get embarrassed. His reputation is getting tarnished.

[Dapper Dan]

I am all for change, conservative warrior.

[Shazam!]

There are so few options out there of people who can come and quick fix this and bring new ideas. We tried the hot coordinator route and it has failed apparently twice.

I am all for Mike Shanahan returning BUT this is under the consideration that this Organization will do whatever it takes to lure Kirk Cousins. THAT is the X factor in my thought process.

I see no reason whatsoever to believe the Broncos will suddenly fix these offensive issues. It is only going to get worse. I expect them to get absolutely manhandled vs a KC team looking for payback. Elway will then have to do something immediately to stop the bleeding.

I see bringing in Shanahan would be accepted by the players too.

[Davii]

There's absolutely no way you fire a head coach in his first year for anything other than maybe insubordination or something. No chance. We're 6 games in and you think the book is written already?

I could see Shanahan coming in during the off-season to help Elway with the draft, maybe as an offensive consultant or something, but not anything else.

[Rick]

I didn't like the hire but he should get at-least a season, preferably at-least 2 to show he can do something unless he is a little general asshat like McDaniels and just shits the team to pieces. I don't think this is the case

I think he has made good hires, I think if he lets his coaches coach then he will do ok but he needs to make some tough calls on the offense, he and his team need to get that shit figured out.

Worst case scenario, he may be another Jon Fox. I hope not...but he doesn't deserve to be fired...yet.

[DenBronx]

I hated the VJ signing. Something was just off with the whole thing and I wanted Kyle Shanahan. Had Wade stayed and Kyle was hired I truly believe this team would have been on the right path to great things.

However, I'd love to see Mike here but I highly doubt that would happen. How would Mike and Elway get along? Two alphas...

Really...I want to see us trade for a QB more than anything then figure out this coaching situation. Elway hand picked VJ so....I don't expect a change anytime soon....unless we get shut out against the raiders and KC.

[Shazam!]

If they come out lifeless and dead @ KC... Elway will have some splainin' to do.

[Cugel]

Mike Shanahan?
I know people will say this is crazy, but i was thinking last night. Just hear me out.


No. I'm not going to hear you out. :coffee:

Mike Shanahan has retired. Permanently. He's 65 years old and happy to stay retired:

Kyle Shanahan spent four years working for his father Mike on the Redskins' staff, but don't expect the pair to team up in an official capacity with the 49ers.

The younger Shanahan told reporters at Super Bowl media night that there have been no discussions about his father having a role in San Francisco, where Kyle is expected to be named head coach early next week.

“I always anticipate asking my dad for advice and stuff like that, just like anybody would in their profession if their dad had done the same thing and been successful at it,” Shanahan said, via CSN Bay Area. “But as far as him working in the building and doing stuff like that, that’s definitely not been in the discussions. My dad’s basically retired.”

Mike Shanahan, 64, has been out of coaching since he and Kyle were fired by the Redskins following the 2013 season. He spent 20 years as an NFL head coach with the Raiders, Broncos and Redskins, winning back-to-back Super Bowls with Denver in 1997 and 1998.

The pair's partnership in Washington ended in a 24-40 record and will be remembered by many for a falling-out with Robert Griffin III a year after the quarterback led the Redskins to the playoffs in his rookie season.

“We did our deal in Washington and I wouldn’t take that back for the world, but that was pretty much the end of it,” Kyle said.

If he was going to come back into football at all it would be in some kind of advisory position with the 49ers. But, he's not interested. He has tens of millions of dollars in the bank and he doesn't have to get up and work in the morning. Life is good. He plays golf a lot and does speaking engagements.

It's like all those idiots who keep suggesting Jon Gruden, only he concluded a long time ago that there's a easier life than coaching professional football. When you're an analyst you don't lie awake all night tossing in your bed because your FG kicker keeps missing key kicks, or your star RB just had a domestic relations arrest or shot himself in the leg and is facing an 8 game suspension. You can't quit football as a coach for years and years and then come back.

And NO, NO, NO he wouldn't be any good any more even if he did come back. The NFL changes every year and to do that job right you have to be immersed in it all day every day all year long. Just because you were good at your job 5 years ago doesn't mean you'd be any good at it today if you have been out of it that long.

[Cugel]

If they come out lifeless and dead @ KC... Elway will have some splainin' to do.

To who? You? He reports to the Bowlen family and his buddy Joe Ellis. He just signed a new 5 year deal making him the one of the highest paid GMs in football, and he's not going anywhere, whether the Broncos win another game this year or not. Everybody else can "go fish" as far as he's concerned. If the fans aren't happy that's not any worse than when he sometimes was booed as a player. You learn to tune it out to do your job.

He made some really bad personnel decisions particularly regarding the QB position. That's life in the fast lane. He also won a SB.

It's not easy to find really good QBs in this league. Some teams have never even had one. The Browns have been waiting since Bernie Kosar's day to get another elite QB, and the Bills have been waiting for their next great or even good QB since Jim Kelly retired.

It would not be a terrible surprise if Paxton simply was a bust. That happens to about 1/2 the QBs taken in the first round, and almost ALL of them taken in later rounds. No surprise.

As JFK said: "10% never get the word." Paxton could just be one of that 10% for whom the light never goes on. All the tools in the bag, but mentally he just never learns how the game is played at the highest level. That happens some times.

If the team continues to struggle for the next 2 or 3 seasons then maybe there's some talk of getting rid of Elway prior to the expiration of his contract, but it will take a LOT of fail to get John Elway out of that job.

As for answering to the fans, well. . . . he just doesn't care much. Too busy doing his job.

[Nomad]

Shanahan really lit it up his first few years as HC. Joseph gets his chance to right the ship.

[Rick]

Shanahan really lit it up his first few years as HC. Joseph gets his chance to right the ship.

And on this note, as much as I and others wanted Kyle as the HC, it is not like his 49er team is setting records, they are 0-7 with a shitty offense.

[Nomad]

And on this note, as much as I and others wanted Kyle as the HC, it is not like his 49er team is setting records, they are 0-7 with a shitty offense.

Kyle could be the next Bill Walsh, since Walsh went 0-7 too.

[wayninja]

I have no problems at all with Shannahan coming back. But I think it's far more likely that we would get Rodgers or Luck before that happened.

[Timmy!]

There's absolutely no way you fire a head coach in his first year for anything other than maybe insubordination or something. No chance. We're 6 games in and you think the book is written already?

I could see Shanahan coming in during the off-season to help Elway with the draft, maybe as an offensive consultant or something, but not anything else.

/thread

[Magnificent Seven]

Mike Shanahan would be perfect for the position of offensive coordinator. He was an awesome coordinator for Niners. I would bring him back to fix the offense.

[Shazam!]

After getting slaughtered by KC, something will have to be done. No way some big shake up doesnt happen if tbis team plays dead.

[nevcraw]

To who? You? He reports to the Bowlen family and his buddy Joe Ellis. He just signed a new 5 year deal making him the one of the highest paid GMs in football, and he's not going anywhere, whether the Broncos win another game this year or not. Everybody else can "go fish" as far as he's concerned. If the fans aren't happy that's not any worse than when he sometimes was booed as a player. You learn to tune it out to do your job.

He made some really bad personnel decisions particularly regarding the QB position. That's life in the fast lane. He also won a SB.

It's not easy to find really good QBs in this league. Some teams have never even had one. The Browns have been waiting since Bernie Kosar's day to get another elite QB, and the Bills have been waiting for their next great or even good QB since Jim Kelly retired.

It would not be a terrible surprise if Paxton simply was a bust. That happens to about 1/2 the QBs taken in the first round, and almost ALL of them taken in later rounds. No surprise.

As JFK said: "10% never get the word." Paxton could just be one of that 10% for whom the light never goes on. All the tools in the bag, but mentally he just never learns how the game is played at the highest level. That happens some times.

If the team continues to struggle for the next 2 or 3 seasons then maybe there's some talk of getting rid of Elway prior to the expiration of his contract, but it will take a LOT of fail to get John Elway out of that job.

As for answering to the fans, well. . . . he just doesn't care much. Too busy doing his job.

when you say really bad decisions - you act like there were better options. like what?
he also made the most brilliant QB personnel decision / in FA history to take huge chance on PFM who at the time couldn't throw a ball. won one SB and went to another. i guarantee to those he is accountable to are not looking at it as Elway has made the bad decisions you speak of. He has the cheapest QB payroll in the league. He has pro bowlers all over the defense and a couple HOF'ers. The team is competitive and the strands are always full.

[Shazam!]

To who? You? He reports to the Bowlen family and his buddy Joe Ellis. He just signed a new 5 year deal making him the one of the highest paid GMs in football, and he's not going anywhere, whether the Broncos win another game this year or not. Everybody else can "go fish" as far as he's concerned. If the fans aren't happy that's not any worse than when he sometimes was booed as a player. You learn to tune it out to do your job.

He made some really bad personnel decisions particularly regarding the QB position. That's life in the fast lane. He also won a SB.

It's not easy to find really good QBs in this league. Some teams have never even had one. The Browns have been waiting since Bernie Kosar's day to get another elite QB, and the Bills have been waiting for their next great or even good QB since Jim Kelly retired.

It would not be a terrible surprise if Paxton simply was a bust. That happens to about 1/2 the QBs taken in the first round, and almost ALL of them taken in later rounds. No surprise.

As JFK said: "10% never get the word." Paxton could just be one of that 10% for whom the light never goes on. All the tools in the bag, but mentally he just never learns how the game is played at the highest level. That happens some times.

If the team continues to struggle for the next 2 or 3 seasons then maybe there's some talk of getting rid of Elway prior to the expiration of his contract, but it will take a LOT of fail to get John Elway out of that job.

As for answering to the fans, well. . . . he just doesn't care much. Too busy doing his job.

when you say really bad decisions - you act like there were better options. like what?
he also made the most brilliant QB personnel decision / in FA history to take huge chance on PFM who at the time couldn't throw a ball. won one SB and went to another. i guarantee to those he is accountable to are not looking at it as Elway has made the bad decisions you speak of. He has the cheapest QB payroll in the league. He has pro bowlers all over the defense and a couple HOF'ers. The team is competitive and the strands are always full.

THIS.

Elway answers to season ticket holders. Thid id not the Miami Dolphins.

[wayninja]

when you say really bad decisions - you act like there were better options. like what?
he also made the most brilliant QB personnel decision / in FA history to take huge chance on PFM who at the time couldn't throw a ball. won one SB and went to another. i guarantee to those he is accountable to are not looking at it as Elway has made the bad decisions you speak of. He has the cheapest QB payroll in the league. He has pro bowlers all over the defense and a couple HOF'ers. The team is competitive and the strands are always full.

I agree with you to a point, but the team has not been competitive at all the last 2 weeks. We'll see if this week is any different.

As for the "huge chance" on PFM, everyone who didn't have a good QB was willing to give their left testicle for him. Elway was instrumental in him choosing Denver, but let's not pretend he took some major chance to get one of the Best QB's who has ever played or ride with Tebow. It was a no-brainer.

[Valar Morghulis]

Are we talking about replacing McCoy or Joseph?

I think we are viewing shanny with rose tinted glasses, he is old and his system it's as out dated as kubiaks any glimmer of success came from his sons offensive play calling

I never liked the Joseph hire, but damn we need to give him at least two seasons

[dogfish]

come on, man! you're better than this. . . you know who fires coaches after two months? the raiders. . .

[Northman]

No...

[Northman]

Are we talking about replacing McCoy or Joseph?

I think we are viewing shanny with rose tinted glasses, he is old and his system it's as out dated as kubiaks any glimmer of success came from his sons offensive play calling



All this^

I excluded the last line because i dont think VJ needs 2 years. There is too much talent on this team to be as stale as it is and now the kicking and screaming from even a year ago is gone. Shanahan isnt the answer either, as you said he is outdated and would bring nothing new to the table. The reality is Denver hasnt found their franchise HC yet just like they have not found their franchise QB. VJ will get at least this year but if he bombs out with the kind of talent that is on the offense and the team doesnt at least play more competitively than i could easily see him getting the axe. JE has shown he will even kick you to the curb with a winning season and a SB trophy. Yes, i know Kubes health played a factor but i also think his inability to improve the offense helped that decision a lot more than was let on. The window with this defense is rapidly closing so Elway can not afford another Josh McDaniels.

[Rick]

I am not remotely worried that VJ is McDaniels, he was a special case...I do worry though that he is another Fox.

Good demeanor, easy to like, unable to make adjustments and stubborn.

[Nomad]

I am not remotely worried that VJ is McDaniels, he was a special case...I do worry though that he is another Fox.

Good demeanor, easy to like, unable to make adjustments and stubborn.

Curious as to how so?

[Northman]

I am not remotely worried that VJ is McDaniels, he was a special case...I do worry though that he is another Fox.

Good demeanor, easy to like, unable to make adjustments and stubborn.

I was talking more in the sense that we cant really afford to wait 2 and a half years to figure out if VJ is going to work out or not. I agree with you about the demeanor though.

[Rick]

Curious as to how so?

I get the idea that no matter how Simien plays, he will be the QB. Sometimes you just have to make a change and I am not sure he will.

[Nomad]

I get the idea that no matter how Simien plays, he will be the QB. Sometimes you just have to make a change and I am not sure he will.

IMO.....Brock wasn't brought here to take over if things go south....like the last 2 games.......I'm thinking this is Elway's plan. He's only here if Siemian gets hurt, and until Lynch heals (maybe Kelly). I don't believe either of those guys are ready to hit the field, and may not be for the rest of the season. I have no factual evidence to back my theory, but I believe Osweiler was a desperate, impulse buy.

[Shazam!]

It will get worse before it gets better. Denver is not Miami Cleveland or Houston. If we are waiting for VJ to learn on the job, then A- He was the wrong man and B- Throw in the towel, and rebuild this offense.

[Cugel]

when you say really bad decisions - you act like there were better options. like what?
he also made the most brilliant QB personnel decision / in FA history to take huge chance on PFM who at the time couldn't throw a ball. won one SB and went to another. i guarantee to those he is accountable to are not looking at it as Elway has made the bad decisions you speak of. He has the cheapest QB payroll in the league. He has pro bowlers all over the defense and a couple HOF'ers. The team is competitive and the strands are always full.

I'm not attacking Elway. He made some bad decisions. Name One GM who lasts more than a couple of years who didn't.

He preferred Giraffe #1 over Russell Wilson (and Kirk Cousins, but Cousins was not considered NFL starting material even by the team that drafted him). He wanted to draft Brandon Weeden over both Osweiler & Wilson, but he was too old. Osweiler would be expected to sit on the bench for a couple of years behind Peyton and he though Weeden would be too old by then. He would also be too sucky but Elway didn't know that.

He traded up to get Lynch who is pretty clearly a bust. So, mistakes but the Lynch pick cannot be criticized because there was virtually no negative commentary I heard around that draft pick. Virtually everybody was convinced that Lynch had a great future in the NFL. At the time. In retrospect not so much.

But, you don't get to draft knowing how a QB will turn out. So Elway gets a Mulligan on that one.

And the draft pick who looked like a total bust last year, 2nd round pick DE Adam Gotsis, has turned out great this season. Some experts panned that pick, but Gotsis has shut them up this season.

[Cugel]

It will get worse before it gets better. Denver is not Miami Cleveland or Houston. If we are waiting for VJ to learn on the job, then A- He was the wrong man and B- Throw in the towel, and rebuild this offense.

They may have to do that anyway. And if you want VJ to get fired, you just might have to wait until the end of the 2018 season. If the Broncos haven't made the playoffs by then expect VJ to get canned, just like Fox did when he underachieved expectations.

[Rick]

People need to get over the fact that Elway drafted Lynch and Oz over guys like Wilson, Cousins and Dak.

Those 3 look like really good QBs but all 3 were drafted in the 4th round. NOONE thought those 3 would be franchise guys, they were brought in the develop and who the hell knows down the road.

Oz was drafted where he should have been based on scouting, he was rated a first round QB if he came out the next year.

Lynch was rated a first round QB and other teams would have taken him in the first if Denver hadn't.

Elway has not been able to grab a franchise QB yet, but he grabbed the guys where they were scouted to be. Draft is a crap shoot.

I blame Elway on some other mistakes he made, and I think he has a fetish with tall QBs...but I am not going to knock him for drafting guys where they were slated to go just because they didn't work out nor will I knock him for not drafting guys who got drafted where they were slotted just because they DID work out.

If any GM knew what Cousins, Dak and Wilson would do they would have been top 10 and wouldn't have fallen to the 4th.

[Nomad]

Damn shitty scouts! :D

[Shazam!]

If the Broncos get slaughtered in KC, just watch. Elway wont have a choice because there will be a revolt.

[Simple Jaded]

The only problem with this idea is Kirk Cousins ... specifically, paying an average QB $31 + M/year.

[slim]

You guys are ******* stupid.

No offense.

[dogfish]

If the Broncos get slaughtered in KC, just watch. Elway wont have a choice because there will be a revolt.

by whom?

[Simple Jaded]

You guys are ******* stupid.

No offense.
Shanatan has laid off the tanning bed lately, I think he’s ready for redemption.

[wayninja]

You guys are ******* stupid.

No offense.

Oh, none taken.. I mean, I if I had a nickel...

[Timmy!]

Oh, none taken.. I mean, I if I had a nickel...

We could pool our money and buy a lake like pags!

[Shazam!]

If the Broncos get slaughtered in KC, just watch. Elway wont have a choice because there will be a revolt.

by whom?

Season ticket holders who did not pay to see the Browns? This was supposed to be a playoff team. Not Miami, Cleveland, or the NYJ.

I've seen a lot of terrible performances by this Team in 30+ year, but I have never seen them like this.

This is John Elway. He will NOT accept what is happening with this team right now. Its not just that they lost 2 straight, its how they are losing.

I tell you if this squad comes out dead again amd gets hammered by KC on MNF, Elway will do something. Because the narrative will be not how great KC is, but a what is wrong with the Denver Broncos. There will be everyone saying Joseph was the wrong choice and Denver needs a complete rebuild and 2017 is over. This will not sit well. Elway will be called out for bringing in a guy not ready for the big time.

[BroncoWave]

Season ticket holders who did not pay to see the Browns? This was supposed to be a playoff team. Not Miami, Cleveland, or the NYJ.

I've seen a lot of terrible performances by this Team in 30+ year, but I have never seen them like this.

This is John Elway. He will NOT accept what is happening with this team right now. Its not just that they lost 2 straight, its how they are losing.

I tell you if this squad comes out dead again amd gets hammered by KC on MNF, Elway will do something. Because the narrative will be not how great KC is, but a what is wrong with the Denver Broncos. There will be everyone saying Joseph was the wrong choice and Denver needs a complete rebuild and 2017 is over. This will not sit well. Elway will be called out for bringing in a guy not ready for the big time.

I don't think Elway is nearly impulsive as you think he is. He's not going to fire a head coach in the middle of his first season. That would be retarded.

There isn't going to be any sort of "revolt" either. You are being a real drama queen in this thread. :lol:

[Shazam!]

If the Broncos get creamed and have yet again another embarassing outing for the world to watch on MNF, you will see. This will not be tolerated by Denver management and Something drastic is going to happen. Watch! I promise you. This is a team that looks far worse and unprepared than at any point in the McDaniels era. Those teams got whacked because of talent not effort.

[Shazam!]

Again as to my OP, I want to reiterate i did say this was with Cousins in the picture. This was for a plan for the future, not a quick fix fir this season. Shanahan would be a huge reason for Cousins to come here.

Cousins out of the equation is a different story altogther.

But i promise this, if Denver looks anything like they have the past two weeks, believe it that Joseph is on the hot seat. They have someone for the interim (McCoy) so I don't think Elway wont hesitate to pull the plug if he cannot lead these men.

[Nomad]

I've never seen you like this, shazam, so adamant on hating and getting rid of Joseph.

[The Glue Factory]

Mike Shanahan will never be in Denver as long as Elway is GM. There's no love lost between those two and a microscopic snowball stands a better chance in hell than Shanahan coming back to the Broncos. Plain and very simple.

[Cugel]

Again as to my OP, I want to reiterate i did say this was with Cousins in the picture. This was for a plan for the future, not a quick fix fir this season. Shanahan would be a huge reason for Cousins to come here.

Cousins out of the equation is a different story altogther.

But i promise this, if Denver looks anything like they have the past two weeks, believe it that Joseph is on the hot seat. They have someone for the interim (McCoy) so I don't think Elway wont hesitate to pull the plug if he cannot lead these men.

Oh, this is absolutely correct. Elway is all about wining. If the team is losing, that's one thing. But, if he thinks VJ has lost the trust of the locker-room and the team is not listening to him any more and his star defensive players like Aqib Talib all want out of town, because this is not what they signed up for - playing great football for a lousy team that can't make the playoffs, then VJ is definitely on the hot seat.

Elway is going to require him to be accountable and get the players back. If he can't do it, then he can't stay.

But, just a losing season will put VJ in the hot seat for NEXT season. The only way he can be fired this season is if he loses the locker room and the team is just not trying any more and the defenders are all checked out because no matter what they do the offense can't score any points. Everybody's calling their agent to see if there will be some interest in them during FA next season because they are thinking "I might not be here."

At that point things start looking like the Cleveland Browns around here and all the FAs start to want to leave. You are in a total rebuilding mode at that point.

[Nomad]

So Denver's going to become the revolving door of coaches with every knee jerk reaction to adversity?

[Cugel]

Again as to my OP, I want to reiterate i did say this was with Cousins in the picture. This was for a plan for the future, not a quick fix fir this season. Shanahan would be a huge reason for Cousins to come here.

Cousins out of the equation is a different story altogther.

But i promise this, if Denver looks anything like they have the past two weeks, believe it that Joseph is on the hot seat. They have someone for the interim (McCoy) so I don't think Elway wont hesitate to pull the plug if he cannot lead these men.

Cousins is probably going to stay in Washington anyway. He says that his preference is to re-negotiate a long term deal with them. They just tried to low-ball him with stupid offers that were an insult to his intelligence. Well, that blew up in their faces, their GM got fired and now they have to eat crow. Because RGIII flamed out hotter than a cross-dresser in Mardi-Gras they now have no QB other than Cousins. They tried to pay him $12M, and never were willing to go above $16M a year because they weren't convinced he was worth it.

So, he signed two consecutive franchise tags, and is now making $25M. It cost them a pile of money to be so stupid, but that's the Redskins. Now they have no choice but to give him a long term contract in the $25M a year range, because some other team will. Probably not the Broncos though. I don't think Elway wants to spend that kind of money on his QB if he can avoid it.

Cousins doesn't bear any grudge against the Redskins and Dan Snyder and he were recently hob-nobbing together like buddies. They paid him a boat-load of money - more than if he had signed a deal with them, so he's not mad at them and wants to stay with his teammates and finish what they started.

It's overwhelmingly likely he will get his choice to stay in DC.

Since Trevor is in the process of sucking his way out of the league, Elway would probably prefer to go with either Brock or Paxton if he can get either of them to play acceptable football.

[Cugel]

So Denver's going to become the revolving door of coaches with every knee jerk reaction to adversity?

Denver is ALREADY the "revolving door of coaches with every knee jerk reaction to adversity." Or hadn't you noticed? :coffee:

Shanahan kept going 9-7, 8-8 and not winning playoff games so Pat Bowlen got rid of him. There are some franchises where such a record would be something to shoot for (Cleveland or Buffalo) but not here.

McDaniels sucked so hard he didn't last 2 seasons.

But then Elway signed John Fox, who proceeded to take the Broncos to the playoffs 4 straight seasons in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014, winning 3 playoff games in that 4 year stretch including the AFC Championship.

But, he lost the SB and then to the Colts the next year and he was fired. Overall record with the Broncos? 46-18, a .720 winning percentage. But, he didn't win the SB so he was fired.

THen Kubiak comes to town, Elway's old buddy and roommate. He wins the SB in his first season, but next season goes 9-7 and fails to make the playoffs. Elway wants to fire his entire offensive coaching staff and bring in new coaches. Kubiak feels like he and not his assistants should take the blame if anybody is to be fired, so he prefers to resign. Elway immediately fires all the assistant coaches even before hiring a new head coach.

I think I'm sensing a pattern here of not tolerating mediocrity or accepting excuses! If you lose, good-bye. Don't give me a lot of reasons why you failed. Do better or get out of town!

Because Elway is serious about giving his coach ever resource he needs to win. Too bad they don't have a starting QB, but that's not always easy to find. So, they will try and find a new QB and Elway will give him one more chance to win next year.

But, yes he will be on a very hot seat next season if he goes 5-11 or something.

And it won't be excuse enough that "you gave me no good QB." Losing causes coaches to get fired no matter how bad their roster of talent might be. Just look at the turnover in coaches among losing franchises.

People think "those franchises suck because they fire their coaches." That's backwards. They fire their coaches because they suck. If the Broncos start to suck, they will fire their coaches too. That's what teams that suck have to do.

Because you can't just continue to suck year after year like the Rockies did for years with GM "Dealin' Dan O'Dowd" and keep your job like he did. Elway is not about cronyism and nepotism.

[Nomad]

Carry on with the meltdowns then. Shanahan would be the same here as what he did in Washington.

[Shazam!]

I've never seen you like this, shazam, so adamant on hating and getting rid of Joseph.

Has any of us seen this team as inept and dead as we have seen the last two weeks? No. Maybe pre-1982? Not since.

[Nomad]

Has any of us seen this team as inept and dead as we have seen the last two weeks? No. Maybe pre-1982? Not since.

What do you want Joseph to do?

[Shazam!]

Has any of us seen this team as inept and dead as we have seen the last two weeks? No. Maybe pre-1982? Not since.

What do you want Joseph to do?

Um. His job?

[Valar Morghulis]

Shanny had multiple seasons to turn it around
McD was cheating, lying, lost the locker room and within weeks the FO realised he did not meet the Bronco ethos
Fox had clearly reached his limit of progress (but I'm grateful for his steady hand)
Kubes had health problems

We are hardly the revolving door

We demand high standards, and won't put up with any one who thinks that they see bigger than the franchise

[Nomad]

Um. His job?

Since you have all the answers, I figured you could elaborate on how he should do his job.

You want him to switch QBs? Osweiler is not here to be the solution, he's here just to back up Siemian if he gets hurt. So there will be no QB change unless Lynch becomes magically 100% healthy, and can display he can run the offense.

[Cugel]

Um. His job?

At what point do you realize that even if you were right in your insistence that Shanahan would be any good here now after he's been retired and out of the league for years, which is ridiculous, then you have to admit he doesn't want to get back into football.

If he did his SON is coaching the 49ers and he would have the chance to go back and work with his boy - IF he wanted to do it, he could probably design the job for himself, meaning he could have any level of commitment from part-time consultant to full-time staff position.

He doesn't want it. He's retired. Permanently. Will never coach again. Doesn't need the money. Doesn't need the aggravation. Is done with that and satisfied with his career and two SB championships. Could possibly be in the Hall of Fame eventually, who knows? Won't come back for any offer because he doesn't want any job.

[nevcraw]

Denver is ALREADY the "revolving door of coaches with every knee jerk reaction to adversity." Or hadn't you noticed? :coffee:

Shanahan kept going 9-7, 8-8 and not winning playoff games so Pat Bowlen got rid of him. There are some franchises where such a record would be something to shoot for (Cleveland or Buffalo) but not here.

McDaniels sucked so hard he didn't last 2 seasons.

But then Elway signed John Fox, who proceeded to take the Broncos to the playoffs 4 straight seasons in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014, winning 3 playoff games in that 4 year stretch including the AFC Championship.

But, he lost the SB and then to the Colts the next year and he was fired. Overall record with the Broncos? 46-18, a .720 winning percentage. But, he didn't win the SB so he was fired.

THen Kubiak comes to town, Elway's old buddy and roommate. He wins the SB in his first season, but next season goes 9-7 and fails to make the playoffs. Elway wants to fire his entire offensive coaching staff and bring in new coaches. Kubiak feels like he and not his assistants should take the blame if anybody is to be fired, so he prefers to resign. Elway immediately fires all the assistant coaches even before hiring a new head coach.

I think I'm sensing a pattern here of not tolerating mediocrity or accepting excuses! If you lose, good-bye. Don't give me a lot of reasons why you failed. Do better or get out of town!

Because Elway is serious about giving his coach ever resource he needs to win. Too bad they don't have a starting QB, but that's not always easy to find. So, they will try and find a new QB and Elway will give him one more chance to win next year.

But, yes he will be on a very hot seat next season if he goes 5-11 or something.

And it won't be excuse enough that "you gave me no good QB." Losing causes coaches to get fired no matter how bad their roster of talent might be. Just look at the turnover in coaches among losing franchises.

People think "those franchises suck because they fire their coaches." That's backwards. They fire their coaches because they suck. If the Broncos start to suck, they will fire their coaches too. That's what teams that suck have to do.

Because you can't just continue to suck year after year like the Rockies did for years with GM "Dealin' Dan O'Dowd" and keep your job like he did. Elway is not about cronyism and nepotism.

There is absolutely no proof to elway forcing kubes hand busllshit. There are no articles or quotes to back it up. Nadda it’s fake news through and through.

[Shazam!]

The only reason I bring up Shanahan is he is someone who can come in on Day 1 and COACH this team on game day.

I think switching to Oz is a huge mistake. This OLine is SO BAD. Its more than a QB thing.

Scheme and preparedeness and adjustments and in game decisions is a Coaching issue and this is a total failure. We thought the Tebow led offense was bad? Please.

This is on Vance. And I tell you if they come out flat, dead, and another dismal offensive performance, either Joseph or McCoy will be out on Tues.

[DT88TheGreat]

I know people will say this is crazy, but i was thinking last night. Just hear me out.

We all wanted to run Shanahan out of town, but lets be real: He overstayed. Messages got stale. Defensive decline. Bad personnel moves. The move to Cutler over Plummer was his demise (see Sundquist, Ted).

However, this is a different day and Shanahan is wiser.

Elway has brought back former Broncos before. With Shanhan working WITH Elway and not having full control over personnel, I can see it.

It would be a quick transition. Quality Defense and a great Coaching Staff are in place (Woods). He would need to focus on STs.

Shanahan and son Kyle had an excellent relationship with Kirk Cousins. IF Denver is committed to going this route, I can see this as a major drawing point for Cousins to come to Denver.

I can certainly see it. Shanahan can come in immediately as he knows the organization. He would be vast improvement over what we have seen i think. Joseph is not ready IMO.

I also say if Denver comes out dead again in KC, Joseph needs to be fired upon his return to Denver. Who else can they bring in with such short notice other than Shanahan? There's still a LOT of football left, and I know Elway won't throw in the towel like that.

With the state of the offense and all these young QBs he can certainly help. And if we want Cousins it may be the best way to acquire him.

Thoughts?

Hear you out?

Lmao this is the worst thread ever my friend, bring shanahan back over Joseph because he's somehow changed as a coach and you have zero proof of that........ No other team has bit and hired Mike. His time has came and gone and you along with others need to get over the thought of Vance being outted, he is Elways guy and he is the right guy.

[DT88TheGreat]

I hated the VJ signing. Something was just off with the whole thing and I wanted Kyle Shanahan. Had Wade stayed and Kyle was hired I truly believe this team would have been on the right path to great things.

However, I'd love to see Mike here but I highly doubt that would happen. How would Mike and Elway get along? Two alphas...

Really...I want to see us trade for a QB more than anything then figure out this coaching situation. Elway hand picked VJ so....I don't expect a change anytime soon....unless we get shut out against the raiders and KC.

Okay so Kyle would have Trevor playing good ball huh? Yeah right.....

Vance hired an amazing coaching staff, the OC is fine, and the quarterback coach is amazing, just doesn't have much to work with in Trevor.

[DT88TheGreat]

Oh I get it now, Trevor failing is a vance thing, and we need to get Trevor a 3RD coach to fix him. Nevermind the fact that the defense isn't (flat), though they should be since it's a coach thing. It's everything and everyone fault but the guy who actually sucks whose supposed to LEAD the offense. Its everyone fault soooooo much that we gotta go grab a 75 year old retired coach off his golf course too fix what everyh coach couldn't in such a great talent like Trevor.

[Cugel]

Has any of us seen this team as inept and dead as we have seen the last two weeks? No. Maybe pre-1982? Not since.

Are you kidding? 2010 of course! McMoron's Melt-down in which the team started 6-0 in 2009 and then lost 12 out of 17 games? Team went 4-12? Drafted Von Miller in 2011 with the #2 pick of the draft? Ring any bells?

That is how this season is shaping up. 4-12, 5-11, 6-10. I'm having trouble seeing how they win more than 6 games given the hardest schedule in the NFL. That, plus the fact they can't even score any points, makes it hard to win.

[Nomad]

Are you kidding? 2010 of course! McMoron's Melt-down in which the team started 6-0 in 2009 and then lost 12 out of 17 games? Team went 4-12? Drafted Von Miller in 2011 with the #2 pick of the draft? Ring any bells?

That is how this season is shaping up. 4-12, 5-11, 6-10. I'm having trouble seeing how they win more than 6 games given the hardest schedule in the NFL. That, plus the fact they can't even score any points, makes it hard to win.

I request your running tiger avi again. TIA.

[Shazam!]

Has any of us seen this team as inept and dead as we have seen the last two weeks? No. Maybe pre-1982? Not since.

Are you kidding? 2010 of course! McMoron's Melt-down in which the team started 6-0 in 2009 and then lost 12 out of 17 games? Team went 4-12? Drafted Von Miller in 2011 with the #2 pick of the draft? Ring any bells?

That is how this season is shaping up. 4-12, 5-11, 6-10. I'm having trouble seeing how they win more than 6 games given the hardest schedule in the NFL. That, plus the fact they can't even score any points, makes it hard to win.

...and even under McDaniels his teams managed to not get shut out or lose in such fashion. The Tebow offense was a juggernaut comoared to what we've seen.

Joseph has to go if Denver falls flat again. He will be fired.

[MOtorboat]

...and even under McDaniels his teams managed to not get shut out or lose in such fashion. The Tebow offense was a juggernaut comoared to what we've seen.

Joseph has to go if Denver falls flat again. He will be fired.

Lol. Good grief.

[Timmy!]

When was the last time, mid season, where an NFL team fired a head coach and replaced them with somebody NOT on the staff. I'll wait.

[Timmy!]

Lol. Good grief.

If I say it enough it will be true!!$^*×++

[DT88TheGreat]

Trevor has really destroyed the minds of some people.

[Nomad]

Elway was never shut out...never.

[DT88TheGreat]

if Elway had kubiak/dennison and Joseph/McCoy he'd look as poor as Trevor so try again.

[Simple Jaded]

Again as to my OP, I want to reiterate i did say this was with Cousins in the picture. This was for a plan for the future, not a quick fix fir this season. Shanahan would be a huge reason for Cousins to come here.

Cousins out of the equation is a different story altogther.

But i promise this, if Denver looks anything like they have the past two weeks, believe it that Joseph is on the hot seat. They have someone for the interim (McCoy) so I don't think Elway wont hesitate to pull the plug if he cannot lead these men.
Cousins is going to be the highest paid player in NFL history, let that sink in.

[Shazam!]

Again as to my OP, I want to reiterate i did say this was with Cousins in the picture. This was for a plan for the future, not a quick fix fir this season. Shanahan would be a huge reason for Cousins to come here.

Cousins out of the equation is a different story altogther.

But i promise this, if Denver looks anything like they have the past two weeks, believe it that Joseph is on the hot seat. They have someone for the interim (McCoy) so I don't think Elway wont hesitate to pull the plug if he cannot lead these men.
Cousins is going to be the highest paid player in NFL history, let that sink in.

Let Vons salary sink in. Thwy aren't the Jets. This team is loaded and was expected to compete, not come out dead. Theyve never been this bad in consecutive weeks in years.

If they get creamed in KC, and I have no reason to think the worst OLine in the NFL is going to somehow figure out how to play on the road in Arrowhead. When they get stomped, oh boy.

[Simple Jaded]

Let Vons salary sink in. Thwy aren't the Jets. This team is loaded and was expected to compete, not come out dead. Theyve never been this bad in consecutive weeks in years.

If they get creamed in KC, and I have no reason to think the worst OLine in the NFL is going to somehow figure out how to play on the road in Arrowhead. When they get stomped, oh boy.
Miller is a Defensive Player of the Year candidate year after year, what does he have to do with Kirk Cousins?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I stopped reading after “just hear me out”.

[MOtorboat]

Let Vons salary sink in. Thwy aren't the Jets. This team is loaded and was expected to compete, not come out dead. Theyve never been this bad in consecutive weeks in years.

If they get creamed in KC, and I have no reason to think the worst OLine in the NFL is going to somehow figure out how to play on the road in Arrowhead. When they get stomped, oh boy.

Indianapolis plays in Cincinnati tomorrow.

[Rick]

if Elway had kubiak/dennison and Joseph/McCoy he'd look as poor as Trevor so try again.

Not sure what you are getting at but the last time Kubiak coached Elway the player we netted two Superbowl victories.

[Valar Morghulis]

...and even under McDaniels his teams managed to not get shut out or lose in such fashion. The Tebow offense was a juggernaut comoared to what we've seen.

Joseph has to go if Denver falls flat again. He will be fired.

The raiders crushed us about 60 - 10, the chargers and the ravens also did a number on us under McDaniels.

This shut out thing...meh, lots of games would have shut outs of it weren't for garbage time points. Too much emphasis is getting put on the shut out

Trevor is terrible, last year his inexperience, terrible o line and injury coupled with his occasional flakes of talent meant I did not think it was fair to evaluate him at the time now we know what he is, he is Matt cassell, or any other journeyman. He is a good pro, that can come in and cover an injured qb for a few games each year. Like chase Daniel, he will always have work.

He is not John elway and won't develop into Peyton Manning but that is not going to get our coaches sacked. It may result in elway looking at Eli Manning in the of season though, other wise Talib and co will be off

[MOtorboat]

Elway was never shut out...never.

I hate to do this, but...Sept. 20, 1992.

[Shazam!]

McD's Denver teams got blown out due to a lack talent, which is not what the problem is here, maybe only on the OLine.

I never saw a lack of effort until late in 2010 when the wheels came off. That is what this team looks like, and we only saw the Broncos through SIX games. If it keeps up the way it looks, it can get a whole lot worse.

I see no reason to think that Denver isn't going to get destroyed on MNF which will only obviously make things worse

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I hate to do this, but...Sept. 20, 1992.

I thought Tommy Maddox was the QB for that game?

[Northman]

I thought Tommy Maddox was the QB for that game?

Nope, Elway.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199209200phi.htm

[DT88TheGreat]

Not sure what you are getting at but the last time Kubiak coached Elway the player we netted two Superbowl victories.

You totally missed the boat buddy.......

[nevcraw]

It will take a whole lot more of this before VJ gets fired And I doubt if it happens it would be this year. If we go into the tank at least we will get To pick a true impact player or maybe the QB of the future. Hate to see that happen tho and waste this defense.

[Northman]

It will take a whole lot more of this before VJ gets fired And I doubt if it happens it would be this year. If we go into the tank at least we will get To pick a true impact player or maybe the QB of the future. Hate to see that happen tho and waste this defense.

I think its unavoidable at this point. The Oline is still a mess and our QB position is far from settled. Both of those issues and the minimum will take a least 2-3 more seasons to resolve so its most likely this defense will be disbanded in some manner. The best we can hope for is a more balanced team at that point.

[Cugel]

I request your running tiger avi again. TIA.

Oh, no! "I am Ranticus, master of rants!"

11302

[Cugel]

Look guys. Elway's thinking was like this:

#1- He watched the Seahawks defense destroy his record setting Peyton offense in SB and built a defense like theirs. HE won the SB with Peyton. But then Peyton retired and you have to find a new QB and possibly a new winning formula. Season one with Trevor doesn't go as planned. Now we're in 2017.

#2 - The key to success is not having to pay your QB starting QB money. That means you have to draft and develop them or sign undrafted FAs or complete cast-offs nobody else wanted at the moment like Osweiler.

#3 - If you can get Russell Wilson level play out of your bargain basement QBs (like Wilson on his rookie contract), then you can win more SBs. Hence Trevor and Paxton and now Osweiler - Someone was supposed to emerge as the long-term answer.

Their idea is that with patient coaching (and remember they brought in all those expert offensive coaches?), they can coach up their QBs into a dependable starter.

That, plus fixing the OL = 10, maybe 11 wins, plus the division title or wild-card berth. Well, that didn't happen, and given the current performance you have to wonder how they so badly over estimated how good they were going to be.

#4 - The only alternative to this formula is to have an elite QB - Matt Ryan or Brady or Roethlisberger, or even Philip Rivers. That kind of guy can make the rest of the stiffs look good. But, they are a million miles away from having that either.

So, next year they have to go back to the draft in the first round and draft another QB. At that point, they probably release Paxton, keep Trevor around for a backup (he's cheap), and let Osweiler walk.

In short, the team is already in total re-building mode. And the SB window is pretty much officially closed.

It's rather sad, actually. The end of an era in which the Broncos were relevant to the Super Bowl hunt every single year. It could be years in the wilderness now.

Even if they draft a QB he'll be a raw rookie in 2018 and a 2nd year starter in 2019. That means the Broncos are unlikely to compete for anything before 2020. And this defense will not be anything like the No-Fly Zone by then. Most of them will be gone by then.

[Simple Jaded]

I love when people say they wasted this defense, 2015 may not have been the Tebow-Fun-Ride but it still counts.

[dogfish]

Oh, no! "I am Ranticus, master of rants!"

11302

shut up and bring the tiger, old man!


:coffee:

[dogfish]

and shazam, please. . . just quit while you're behind, and delete this piece of crap thread. . .

you know better. . . john F. elway and co. don't owe you any wins, and they aren't worried about any "revolts," either. . . come on, now. . . you can't be conservative warrior 9-5 and wear the che shirt on the weekends. . . i mean, really? VJ is .500 over his first two months, and he's supposed to be coaching for his job? because you won't stand for any more losses? get yourself together, man! this level of "triggered" would make an entitled snowflake blush. . .


and the idea of shanny riding out of retirement (and the 90s) on a white Thunder is pretty much just comical at this point. . .

[Shazam!]

and shazam, please. . . just quit while you're behind, and delete this piece of crap thread. . .

you know better. . . john F. elway and co. don't owe you any wins, and they aren't worried about any "revolts," either. . . come on, now. . . you can't be conservative warrior 9-5 and wear the che shirt on the weekends. . . i mean, really? VJ is .500 over his first two months, and he's supposed to be coaching for his job? because you won't stand for any more losses? get yourself together, man! this level of "triggered" would make an entitled snowflake blush. . .


and the idea of shanny riding out of retirement (and the 90s) on a white Thunder is pretty much just comical at this point. . .

I know what I have watched the last two weeks. Did you? Dont like my crap thread, stfo and don't read.

[Valar Morghulis]

Trigger warning

[Cugel]

shut up and bring the tiger, old man!


:coffee:11307
"Man this is a tough crowd. Tough crowd I tell, ya!"

[Cugel]

I know what I have watched the last two weeks. Did you? Dont like my crap thread, stfo and don't read.

What you have watched the last 2 weeks is a coaching staff over it's head for some reason. The Team is not putting up a good effort. Not just losing, but losing with low energy. There has been a decided lack of kicking and screaming. Maybe Aqib needs to pull some more gold chains off dude's necks. He seems to be the one few guys who's playing like he cares.

[Shazam!]

I know what I have watched the last two weeks. Did you? Dont like my crap thread, stfo and don't read.

What you have watched the last 2 weeks is a coaching staff over it's head for some reason. The Team is not putting up a good effort. Not just losing, but losing with low energy. There has been a decided lack of kicking and screaming. Maybe Aqib needs to pull some more gold chains off dude's necks. He seems to be the one few guys who's playing like he cares.

Therefore, that comes on the Coach. Which, there are few options to take over if the team isn't responding to Joseph. If McCoy can't run the offense, why would I let him take over in the interim? Eric S.?

There are precious few options for someone available to take over midseason, and Coach these teams. That's why I bring up Shanny because what options are there?

He sounds totally CLUELESS in his pressers.

"Its puzzling" LMAO

This is all contingent on Denver getting smashed in KC. I see not a single reason to believe the Broncos will play a competitve game, let alone WIN.

This team was supposed to be a Super Bowl contender. They look like the Browns. Unless they make changes and announce they are playing for the future (which Elway will mever do), if tjey eant to salvage the Season there are few options.

[BeefStew25]

We were going to contend for a super bowl?

[Cugel]

Therefore, that comes on the Coach. Which, there are few options to take over if the team isn't responding to Joseph. If McCoy can't run the offense, why would I let him take over in the interim? Eric S.?

There are precious few options for someone available to take over midseason, and Coach these teams. That's why I bring up Shanny because what options are there?

He sounds totally CLUELESS in his pressers.

"Its puzzling" LMAO

This is all contingent on Denver getting smashed in KC. I see not a single reason to believe the Broncos will play a competitve game, let alone WIN.

This team was supposed to be a Super Bowl contender. They look like the Browns. Unless they make changes and announce they are playing for the future (which Elway will mever do), if tjey eant to salvage the Season there are few options.

You don't change coaches until the season is irretrievably lost. And even then you can only find an interim coach because any good coaching prospect already has a job right now. Which leads to the calls from fans about bringing back an ex-coach, usually Mike Shanahan, Jimmy Johnson or Jon Gruden. Only those guys have been out of coaching for a long time. Too long.

So, it comes down to whether John Elway thinks that firing VJ and hiring McCoy to be the interim head coach/OC would help anything. Or he could use Studesville who was interim head coach before. But, whenever you make that change you are telling the players: "we're punting on the rest of the season and preparing for massive whole-sale changes in the off-season. At that point every single player on the team is thinking: "I need to start polishing my resume because I might need to find a new team next season." So, they want some high-light film that is going to make them look good.

Nobody cares about wins and losses, management has already thrown in the towel by firing the coach with over 1/2 the season left. That's how teams go 3-13 or 4-12 and just mail it in.

Believe me, you haven't see Mail It In Time yet. You think you have, but oh, no! The DEFENSE will start giving up 28 points a game, because they no longer care. The team isn't serious about winning anyway, right? They fired the new head coach after 8 games or something.

You can see from the above why the fans idea of "fire the coach" actually can't work.

They will patiently wait till the end of the season to make any kind of decision on VJ. And if it's a total disaster, he will still probably get a 2nd year. The exception is if the team gives up on the season, including the defense, indicating that VJ has lost the locker-room.

That hasn't happened yet. If it does, all bets are off.

[Cugel]

We were going to contend for a super bowl?

That was perfectly possible, IF several things happened.

#1 - The defense shored up the run-defense and played like they have the last two years. Well, statistically they are the #1 Defense in the NFL this year, so far. So, check, despite the lack of generated turnovers. Teams aren't taking chances with the Broncos defense because they aren't behind so they don't have to.

#2 - They fixed the Run game. Well, the Broncos are #14 in the league in rushing, at 119 ypg. Ever so slightly better than average, but nothing compared with the Jaguars who are leading the league at 169 ypg. Dallas, Houston, Chicago & Philly at 130 ypg, round out the top 5. So, is it improved? Yes, but not as much as they needed to.

#3 - Trevor Siemian needed to continue to develop and learn to read defenses, read and react better and make better decisions and turn the ball over less than last year. So, a big, fat NOOOO! to all that.

IF all that happened, and the team were able to run the ball, take time off the clock and keep the defense rested, then make teams play from behind a lot because the offense was effective with those play-action passes in the red zone, THEN you can get a playoff berth.

10-6 and get into the playoffs. With this defense in the playoffs? Anything can happen. Would the Broncos be a favourite to win the SB given this scenario? No. But, it would be possible.

Right now two out of those three things are just not happening. THey are not running the ball effectively. Trevor has been terrible. And the defense is still great. 1 out of 3 just won't do it.

So, they are unlikely to win 8 games this season.

[BroncoJoe]

Good grief.

[Timmy!]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/748180229311578113/iHN3H9mf.jpg

[DT88TheGreat]

When you see fans like shazam cugel etc you see why even browns fan's have something to smile about....... Nobody thought the broncos would be super bowl contenders, I sure as hell didn't, but yet you have some joke's throwing childish lame tantrums because the Broncos lost some game's lol. The Broncos were destined to lose 9-10 game's this year, and once the OL gains the experience it needs it'll be a ton better especially after we add oje more piece!

The defense will remain strong no matter what but you cannot expect them to lead us to another super bowl the way they did two years ago with a quarterback leading the offense to zero points and just a few first downs a game/turnovers. Next year is when we should be competing for a SB again. This year we need to go ahead and suck and get high draft picks so we can pick from the cream of the crop..... Which is also why we need to play Paxton lynch the rest of the way.

[Shazam!]

When you see fans like shazam cugel etc you see why even browns fan's have something to smile about....... Nobody thought the broncos would be super bowl contenders, I sure as hell didn't, but yet you have some joke's throwing childish lame tantrums because the Broncos lost some game's lol. The Broncos were destined to lose 9-10 game's this year, and once the OL gains the experience it needs it'll be a ton better especially after we add oje more piece!

The defense will remain strong no matter what but you cannot expect them to lead us to another super bowl the way they did two years ago with a quarterback leading the offense to zero points and just a few first downs a game/turnovers. Next year is when we should be competing for a SB again. This year we need to go ahead and suck and get high draft picks so we can pick from the cream of the crop..... Which is also why we need to play Paxton lynch the rest of the way.

You Sir, as usual, are totally WRONG. The Broncos were NOT to be a 6-10 team LMAO

Get your head clear.

WHY did I suggest something outlandish like this?

Look no further than tonight's disaster. This team is a mess.

[wayninja]

You Sir, as usual, are totally WRONG. The Broncos were NOT to be a 6-10 team LMAO

Get your head clear.

WHY did I suggest something outlandish like this?

Look no further than tonight's disaster. This team is a mess.

I predicted 6-10 before the season began.

[Cugel]

I predicted 6-10 before the season began.

I predicted 10-6 and my prediction was a lot more probable, if they had played up to their capabilities. Trevor didn't. Other players keep making stupid errors and turning the ball over. That's bad coaching. The same players didn't do that last year.

[Shazam!]

I predicted 6-10 before the season began.

John Elway and Co. did not. They were allegedly a contender. They 'improved' the OLine and backfield to complement a championship caluber defense.

Instead, they have the worst OLine ive ever seen, and the whole offense has further regressed.

[MOtorboat]

John Elway and Co. did not. They were allegedly a contender. They 'improved' the OLine and backfield to complement a championship caluber defense.

Instead, they have the worst OLine ive ever seen, and the whole offense has further regressed.

Not even the worst line in the league this year. Gotta wonder if you ever watch any football ever.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

[Shazam!]

John Elway and Co. did not. They were allegedly a contender. They 'improved' the OLine and backfield to complement a championship caluber defense.

Instead, they have the worst OLine ive ever seen, and the whole offense has further regressed.

Not even the worst line in the league this year. Gotta wonder if you ever watch any football ever.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Um. They are 29th in pass protection and Stats dont always tell the whole story.

Open your eyes man stop reaching. Broncos Oline has been a joke since 2013.

So, the Broncos have no OLine problem at all, according to you and footballoutsiders.

Have to wonder if you started watching this team in 2013. Because they have fielded THE WORST Broncos OLine I have seen since 1994.

Is that 'specific' enough.

[spikerman]

So, the Broncos have no OLine problem at all, according to you and footballoutsiders.


I don’t think Mo or footballoutsiders said any such thing. You can still have a problem even if you’re not the worst. IMO, last year’s line was worse than this one.*

* It sounds like maybe this is a thing now, so... watching since 1977.

[BroncoWave]

I love when people say they wasted this defense, 2015 may not have been the Tebow-Fun-Ride but it still counts.

I know right? Winning Super Bowls is hard. The fact that we got even one out of this defense 100% makes it not a waste. Yeah we'd like to have more, but it doesn't always work out that way.

[Shazam!]

So, the Broncos have no OLine problem at all, according to you and footballoutsiders.


I don’t think Mo or footballoutsiders said any such thing. You can still have a problem even if you’re not the worst. IMO, last year’s line was worse than this one.*

* It sounds like maybe this is a thing now, so... watching since 1977.

I wasn't quoting Mo. It is totally irrelevant anyway.

when someone says the Line isnt too bad or tries to provide stats to suggest otherwise, is lunacy.

[MOtorboat]

I wasn't quoting Mo. It is totally irrelevant anyway.

when someone says the Line isnt too bad or tries to provide stats to suggest otherwise, is lunacy.

That's not what I was doing. Just disputing your idiotic claims that it's the worst you've ever seen. Which, unless you don't watch football - and that's cool if you don't - you've seen a worse line.

[Shazam!]

I wasn't quoting Mo. It is totally irrelevant anyway.

when someone says the Line isnt too bad or tries to provide stats to suggest otherwise, is lunacy.

That's not what I was doing. Just disputing your idiotic claims that it's the worst you've ever seen. Which, unless you don't watch football - and that's cool if you don't - you've seen a worse line.

Wasn't even addressing you and I rarely ever do.

Never seen a worse line for the BRONCOS. is that better?

To throw stats out and tell me there ISNT a problem with that unit? Ok.

Watch more ball. Because the two of you are just armchair QBs like everyone else.

[spikerman]

Wasn't even addressing you and I rarely ever do.

Never seen a worse line for the BRONCOS. is that better?

To throw stats out and tell me there ISNT a problem with that unit? Ok.

Watch more ball. Because the two of you are just armchair QBs like everyone else.
The two of who? If you mean me, I would like to watch more, but I think that might be impossible.

[DT88TheGreat]

Bring back shanahan so he can revive brock, Trevor, lynch, and Kelly, then we'll have 4 starters and trade two of them for top 5 picks like in madden.

But seriously there's only one person who wants shanny back right?

[spikerman]

I like Shanahan. He was a great coach, but not a great personnel man.

[DT88TheGreat]

Shanahan made some dumb moves that effected coaching. Moving dj williams from weakside as a pro bowler elite at his position to strong side and then to middle linebacker..... Was one of the worst moves ive ever seen. His playbook got very stale and predictable as well. His time was up the last 8 years or so he was coaching.

[MOtorboat]

D.J. Williams was the least of that defense's problems.

[Simple Jaded]

Love D.J., his Mom is sssssssmokin hot.

[nevcraw]

I love when people say they wasted this defense, 2015 may not have been the Tebow-Fun-Ride but it still counts.

I said waste this defense. It’s 2017 not 2015. Wolfe is the only lineman left from that team, Marshall and von only starters left st LB and the no fly zone has a couple of new parts. This defense in several ways is better than 2015 and this team would be a serious playoff contender with a very average offense.

[Simple Jaded]

I said waste this defense. It’s 2017 not 2015. Wolfe is the only lineman left from that team, Marshall and von only starters left st LB and the no fly zone has a couple of new parts. This defense in several ways is better than 2015 and this team would be a serious playoff contender with a very average offense.

Oh that makes it better, I guess.

Btw, This defense can’t carry 2015’s sweaty jockstraps.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Oh that makes it better, I guess.

Btw, This defense can’t carry 2015’s sweaty jockstraps.

You mean Malik is better than Gotsis? Todd Davis vs Danny T?

[Valar Morghulis]

By the way, I don't actually think our line is that bad. I mean our right tackle sucks. But the rest is pretty solid IMO.

Next year, I see us having one of the best starting lines in football

[dogfish]

By the way, I don't actually think our line is that bad. I mean our right tackle sucks. But the rest is pretty solid IMO.

Next year, I see us having one of the best starting lines in football

i wouldn't say it's out of reach, if all our guys stay healthy and continue to progress. . . i would say it'll take another successful foray into the draft, though-- specifically, another high pick on tackle. . . i can't see it happening with watson there, and we know what's typically available in free agency. . . also, i'm not ready to get too stoked just because they run blocked better for one game. . . don't get me wrong, it's a nice sign, for sure. . . there's still a long ways to go. . . we at least picked up a few solid pieces to build around, so yea, we could be in good shape next year IF we get right tackle solved. . .

[Valar Morghulis]

i wouldn't say it's out of reach, if all our guys stay healthy and continue to progress. . . i would say it'll take another successful foray into the draft, though-- specifically, another high pick on tackle. . . i can't see it happening with watson there, and we know what's typically available in free agency. . . also, i'm not ready to get too stoked just because they run blocked better for one game. . . don't get me wrong, it's a nice sign, for sure. . . there's still a long ways to go. . . we at least picked up a few solid pieces to build around, so yea, we could be in good shape next year IF we get right tackle solved. . .


Yeah, lotta ifs, health and RT dependant. I don't see us not addressing the right tackle though. LT through C are all really promising.

I even think we have pass blocked better this year and a lot of the sacks and hits on Siemian (that didn't come from the RT turnstile) were on him

I am not saying we are awesome, I am just saying we are not in as bad shape as I thought

[spikerman]

By the way, I don't actually think our line is that bad. I mean our right tackle sucks. But the rest is pretty solid IMO.

Next year, I see us having one of the best starting lines in football

I think LG, or whichever position Leary isn’t playing, has to be addressed as well.

[Timmy!]

Y'all are throwing in the towel too soon.

Don't get me wrong, it's nice and rung out, I've taken a couple practice shots, I'm just saying, wait till we are 3-6 already

[Shazam!]

I said waste this defense. It’s 2017 not 2015. Wolfe is the only lineman left from that team, Marshall and von only starters left st LB and the no fly zone has a couple of new parts. This defense in several ways is better than 2015 and this team would be a serious playoff contender with a very average offense.

Oh that makes it better, I guess.

Btw, This defense can’t carry 2015’s sweaty jockstraps.

Waste the Defense? Really. That sounds insane.

Unless we can pull off a Hershel Walker trade fleecing for Von. That may be the only way i could see being for that?

[wayninja]

Y'all are throwing in the towel too soon.

Don't get me wrong, it's nice and rung out, I've taken a couple practice shots, I'm just saying, wait till we are 3-6 already

I suppose we can wait a few days.

[Cugel]

I said waste this defense. It’s 2017 not 2015. Wolfe is the only lineman left from that team, Marshall and von only starters left st LB and the no fly zone has a couple of new parts. This defense in several ways is better than 2015 and this team would be a serious playoff contender with a very average offense.

And in some important ways it is much worse. No Demarcus Ware, and no Malik Jackson. DeMarcus is a Hall of Fame DE, and teams couldn't simply concentrate on Von and ignore him. Malik is an terror in the middle, getting pressure right in the QBs face preventing him from stepping up to avoid Von & DeMarcus.

And none of the Broncos ILBs can cover TEs like Trevathan. Now TEs just rip up this defense, and RBs who can catch passes.

This team has ONE serious pass-rusher in Von. IF Shane regains form he can provide an additional rusher. But, Shaqil Barrett is no DeMarcus Ware, and Gotsis is nothing compared with Malik. Gotsis is not an elite penetrating Tackle, which is what they paid Jackson $15m a year in Jacksonville to be.

[Cugel]

I suppose we can wait a few days.

10 days to be exact before the Broncos lose to the Patriots and go 3-6 and the season is officially done. From that point they would have to win 7 straight after having just lost 5 in a row, just to get to 10-6 and have a chance at a wild-card. That ain't happening.

[BroncoJoe]

Verbal diarrhea.

[Shazam!]

In today's presser with Joseph, he was asked in regards to Philly Coach Pederson, he said new Coaches want to establish a culture of winning... I thought we HAD that already?

[DT88TheGreat]

D.J. Williams was the least of that defense's problems.

DJ williams went from an elite weakside backer too pretty much a bag and it hurt our defense for sure, defense wasn't good at all to begin with and he had to go and ruin a playmaker at linebacker.

[MOtorboat]

DJ williams went from an elite weakside backer too pretty much a bag and it hurt our defense for sure, defense wasn't good at all to begin with and he had to go and ruin a playmaker at linebacker.

Guy had 440 tackles and 17 1/2 sacks in five seasons as a middle. He wasn't the problem, he was a damn good linebacker.

[Shazam!]

DJ williams went from an elite weakside backer too pretty much a bag and it hurt our defense for sure, defense wasn't good at all to begin with and he had to go and ruin a playmaker at linebacker.

Guy had 440 tackles and 17 1/2 sacks in five seasons as a middle. He wasn't the problem, he was a damn good linebacker.

Broncos were pretty good at LB with Williams and Gold at that span.

[EastCoastBronco]

Guy had 440 tackles and 17 1/2 sacks in five seasons as a middle. He wasn't the problem, he was a damn good linebacker.

DJ Williams...

11343

[Shazam!]

No. I am not crazy.

[silkamilkamonico]

No. I am not crazy.

Going backs to the days of 9-7 and one and done in the playoffs shouldn't be an alternative to the garbage that were seeing now.

[Shazam!]

No. I am not crazy.

Going backs to the days og 9-7 and one and done in the playoffs shouldn't be an alternative to the garbage that were seeing now.

Broncos need a QB. No question. They didn't have one then either did they?

[silkamilkamonico]

Beincos need a QB. No question. They didn't have one then either did they?

I would take Plunger in a heartbeat over what we have now and not even think twice about the possibility of Denver being competitive with their defense.