Tale of two offenses: Why “something isn’t clicking” for the Broncos

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The Broncos were clicking and gave every appearance of a team on the rise, but coach Vance Joseph tried to temper the praise.

“It’s only Week 2,” he said at the time. “We don’t want to be overconfident.”

It was mid-September and the Broncos were riding a two-game win streak, thanks to a rediscovered running game, a quarterback who appeared to be coming into his own and an offensive line seemingly better equipped to withstand the pressure. The defense, still fiery, had eliminated its biggest flaw — defending the run — and the special teams found the speed it coveted in the return game.

Still, Joseph urged restraint because the season was young. But it’s unlikely even he could have seen what’s happened. Since their Week 5 bye, the Broncos have appeared a wholly different team, depleted and discombobulated, inefficient and in need of answers after losing consecutive games to the Giants, who were 0-5, and Sunday to the Chargers, who were 2-4.

“We still have some issues all the way around. There is no other way to put it,” linebacker Von Miller said. “You can’t lose two games straight and not have any issues. We have issues that we need to address from the top down.”

The Broncos left for their brief vacation with a 3-1 record. They returned with an offense that has changed at its core.

In their first two games this season the Broncos amassed 66 points and relied heavily on their running game with 75 carries for an average of 159 yards rushing (4.24 per carry) per game. Quarterback Trevor Siemian totaled 60 passes for an average of 225 yards per game, and the offense as a whole converted nearly 57 percent of its third downs and compiled 48 first downs.

In their last two losses, the running game has sputtered and the laundry list of mistakes has grown. The Broncos have run the ball only 36 times for an average of 57.5 yards per game, while Siemian has passed a whopping 89 times. They have committed six turnovers (compared with four in Weeks 1 and 2), and Siemian has been sacked nine times.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/23/broncos-tale-of-two-offenses/

[Freyaka]

We're not clicking because we have a grossly incompetent coaching staff. During CJ's presser today he let slip that we did not have time to get a gameplan installed for the week because we were too busy worrying about the o-line...

This coaching staff is in over their heads and I think it's about time for some mid-season shakeups.

*edit* it was Charles presser sorry. He also mentioned that he'd like more carries (I think we'd all like that)

[BroncoJoe]

We're not clicking because we have a grossly incompetent coaching staff. During CJ's presser today he let slip that we did not have time to get a gameplan installed for the week because we were too busy worrying about the o-line...

This coaching staff is in over their heads and I think it's about time for some mid-season shakeups.

*edit* it was Charles presser sorry. He also mentioned that he'd like more carries (I think we'd all like that)

Good grief.

[Freyaka]

Good grief.

You think this is a wrong assessment? It's really disconcerting to hear a player say "we didn't really prepare a game plan because the coaches were worrying about the line". How do you explain that? Especially when the team in fact looked HIGHLY unprepared and failed to score a single point in the game in question due to the utter lack of preparedness...

I think it's a fair to question someone's job when their job is to ensure the team is prepared and ready for a game and instead doesn't bother to install a game plan for the week. That's not just some minor slip up.

I'd love to hear a detailed explanation of how I'm reading this wrong or an excuse as to why this isn't a big deal.

[BroncoJoe]

You think this is a wrong assessment? It's really disconcerting to hear a player say "we didn't really prepare a game plan because the coaches were worrying about the line". How do you explain that? Especially when the team in fact looked HIGHLY unprepared and failed to score a single point in the game in question due to the utter lack of preparedness...

I think it's a fair to question someone's job when their job is to ensure the team is prepared and ready for a game and instead doesn't bother to install a game plan for the week. That's not just some minor slip up.

I'd love to hear a detailed explanation of how I'm reading this wrong or an excuse as to why this isn't a big deal.

Do you actually believe they didn't install a game plan? I mean, no game plan at all?

Perhaps whatever player you are referring to (since you got it wrong initially, then corrected) wasn't paying attention in meetings and practice. I mean, by his own words, (Charles) said “Some people probably don’t think that I (am), but in my heart, I’m always a Chief.”

[Freyaka]

Do you actually believe they didn't install a game plan? I mean, no game plan at all?

Perhaps whatever player you are referring to (since you got it wrong initially, then corrected) wasn't paying attention in meetings and practice. I mean, by his own words, (Charles) said “Some people probably don’t think that I (am), but in my heart, I’m always a Chief.”

You watched the same game I did right? The same one where for the first time since 1992 we got shut out. That game? I'm sure they installed something for a gameplan, but i'm sure their genius idea was to just recycle the exact same gameplan we used in week one.

One way or another, they were VERY CLEARLY unprepared, I mean, that shouldn't even be in question. It was glaringly obvious that we were not prepared at all for the Chargers.

And it was Charles, I mistyped originally, mistakes happen. Do you really think that Charles seems like the screw around and not pay attention type of player Joe? It sounds like you are making some halfhearted excuses to try and play this off.

[BroncoJoe]

It sounds like I am making some halfhearted excuses to try and play this off.

FIFY.

O-Line sucks. QB is below (perhaps well below) average. Receivers have been dropping balls. Every single big play seems to be called back because of a penalty.

It's the whole team. The coaches took over a 9-7 team that missed the playoffs. I'm not ready to throw them under the buss yet.

Please post a link to what Charles said.

[topscribe]

You watched the same game I did right? The same one where for the first time since 1992 we got shut out. That game? I'm sure they installed something for a gameplan, but i'm sure their genius idea was to just recycle the exact same gameplan we used in week one.

One way or another, they were VERY CLEARLY unprepared, I mean, that shouldn't even be in question. It was glaringly obvious that we were not prepared at all for the Chargers.

And it was Charles, I mistyped originally, mistakes happen. Do you really think that Charles seems like the screw around and not pay attention type of player Joe? It sounds like you are making some halfhearted excuses to try and play this off.
I think I have to be at least somewhat with you regarding the game plan. They knew going
in that they were coming up against the best pass-rushing duo in the league (and McCain on
the inside isn't bad, either). And the Broncos were throwing up (no pun intended) against
them a make-shift OL that was bad before it was make-shift, an inept TE group, and a still
relatively inexperienced QB.

I'm no coach, but it seems to me that I would have gone heavy on screen passes, draws,
and quick slants over the middle. But maybe I'm wrong . . .

[BroncoJoe]

I think I have to be at least somewhat with you regarding the game plan. They knew going
in that they were coming up against the best pass-rushing duo in the league (and McCain on
the inside isn't bad, either). And the Broncos were throwing up (no pun intended) against
them a make-shift OL that was bad before it was make-shift, an inept TE group, and a still
relatively inexperienced QB.

I'm no coach, but it seems to me that I would have gone heavy on screen passes, draws,
and quick slants over the middle. But maybe I'm wrong . . .

This, I would agree with. But to say they, and I quote, "did not have time to get a gameplan installed for the week" is just dumb. Clearly they had a game plan, it just wasn't the right one.

[BroncoJoe]

Frey - that was a damn quick delete!

Nice work.

[Freyaka]

FIFY.

O-Line sucks. QB is below (perhaps well below) average. Receivers have been dropping balls. Every single big play seems to be called back because of a penalty.

It's the whole team. The coaches took over a 9-7 team that missed the playoffs. I'm not ready to throw them under the buss yet.

Please post a link to what Charles said.

It was his presser, it was on the Broncos facebook. I'm at work I can't go get it on the work computer, I watched it on my phone earlier.

[Freyaka]

Frey - that was a damn quick delete!

Nice work.

It was meant as stupid humor, but you'd have gotten all butt hurt about it.

[BroncoJoe]

It was his presser, it was on the Broncos facebook. I'm at work I can't go do your work right now,

I mean, you posted it. How is it my "work" ? Maybe later I'll post that the sky is yellow, cause you know, I saw it on Facebook. Plus, you clearly had time to read/view it, so how busy are you exactly?


It was meant as stupid humor, but you'd have gotten all butt hurt about it.

I don't get butt hurt. I think you're confusing me with someone else. I just challenge stupid things that are posted.

[NightTrainLayne]

It isn't consistent to complain that the QB is missing wide open guys all over the place, etc., AND complain that the coaches are incompetent and had no gameplan.

If they had no gameplan, why are receivers open that are getting missed?

In VJ's remarks yesterday I think, he mentioned for example that on our first 3rd down play, we got exactly the look we expected, and had Derby wide open for a big gain (1st down), but then he fumbled it.

It seems you have to give them the benefit of the doubt of having a gameplan.

[Freyaka]

It isn't consistent to complain that the QB is missing wide open guys all over the place, etc., AND complain that the coaches are incompetent and had no gameplan.

If they had no gameplan, why are receivers open that are getting missed?

In VJ's remarks yesterday I think, he mentioned for example that on our first 3rd down play, we got exactly the look we expected, and had Derby wide open for a big gain (1st down), but then he fumbled it.

It seems you have to give them the benefit of the doubt of having a gameplan.

Ok, so Jamaal Charles is a liar then? Disgruntled (I suppose I could see this, give him more freaking carries)

[Freyaka]

I mean, you posted it. How is it my "work" ? Maybe later I'll post that the sky is yellow, cause you know, I saw it on Facebook. Plus, you clearly had time to read it, so how busy are you exactly?



I don't get butt hurt. I think you're confusing me with someone else. I just challenge stupid things that are posted.

I can't access facebook from work Joe... I'll find it in a little while. It's a video, to his presser, I watched him say it on my phone in the video...It's something that you can currently access on facebook as well, but I'll find it when I get a chance to save you the time.

[Freyaka]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155959614906318&id=129494626317

[NightTrainLayne]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155959614906318&id=129494626317

If I understood correctly, he said, "we couldn't gameplan to our gameplan" with the linemen going down.

This sounds more akin to "we couldn't do everything we wanted to do", rather than "we didn't have a gameplan at all."

In addition, the comments in context seem to bear this out. "Now we have Menalik back, so hopefully we can improve our offense"

[BroncoJoe]

If I understood correctly, he said, "we couldn't gameplan to our gameplan" with the linemen going down.

This sounds more akin to "we couldn't do everything we wanted to do", rather than "we didn't have a gameplan at all."

In addition, the comments in context seem to bear this out. "Now we have Menalik back, so hopefully we can improve our offense"

He's a great football player (or was), but clearly not competing for a Mensa award.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Jamaal Charles is a good dude. He wouldn’t throw anyone under the bus, nor would he tank a play due to conflicted allegiances

[topscribe]

Jamaal Charles is a good dude. He wouldn’t throw anyone under the bus, nor would he tank a play due to conflicted allegiances
Actually, it seems the psychology works in reverse. KC is his team, the one he wants to retire from.
Therefore, when the Broncos go to KC, Jamaal wants to beat KC in the worst way. Funny how
that works out.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

#DENvsKC: RB Jamaal Charles
Jamaal Charles describes his expectations and emotions as he prepares for his first visit to Arrowhead Stadium as a visitor after his lengthy career as a Chief.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/DENvsKC-RB-Jamaal-Charles/c02ba21b-324e-4c39-bc99-63c9b80c2ec1

[Shazam!]

Coaching Staff - Lack of prep. No adjustments in game. Poor game planning. Too much locked in (meaning continuing your plan and scheme, no matter the failure).

OLine - Always backpedaling or outright pushed back. No point of attack. No shifts. No forward push.

QB - His play is a byproduct of an OLine that cannot run block, cannot pass protect, can't hold him for 2.5 seconds.

Oz may come in for a few series with some success, but its only a matter of time until he breaks down under the rush as well.

[Mike]

I think McCoy has drawn up good plays and the receiver's are open. But Trevor doesn't see them because he is locked on to the one WR who has drawn double coverage, or he sees them and holds on to the ball too long or throws poor passes to them....or the line breaks down/whiffs.

I do blame McCoy on not adequately providing help to the RT. Same crap as last year. Let's leave our worst position out on an island against talented DEs.

I am not a fan of Joseph though. I think he is in over his head and never understood what the fascination with him was...but I trusted Elway's judgement and hoped it would work out. The way the team came out after an embarrassing loss to the Giants to have an even more embarrassing loss to LA speaks volumes. The team looks lost...I expect a leader of men to be able to lead.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Have they put a gag order on McCoy? I haven’t heard any quotes from him for a few weeks now.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Have they put a gag order on McCoy? I haven’t heard any quotes from him for a few weeks now.

Haven’t heard from pretty much any of the coaching staff (except HC) after the losses. May be a VJ policy that only he talks to the media after a loss. The players and HC have to, but I don’t think the assistant coaches are obligated to do so.

[MasterShake]

I am not a big stats guy or do I claim to know jack crap about how football should be played, all I know is that in the first couple of weeks of the season the team seemed to be executing much better across all positions. I personally think they thought they could evolve past what was working so well and get more complex with their passing schemes and it is biting them in the ass. I just hope this week they don't abandon the run too early. If anything try to get that run game going and bang out some first downs and keep the defense rested. If they can somehow get a lead early that would go a long way in settling down the team.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I am not a big stats guy or do I claim to know jack crap about how football should be played, all I know is that in the first couple of weeks of the season the team seemed to be executing much better across all positions. I personally think they thought they could evolve past what was working so well and get more complex with their passing schemes and it is biting them in the ass. I just hope this week they don't abandon the run too early. If anything try to get that run game going and bang out some first downs and keep the defense rested. If they can somehow get a lead early that would go a long way in settling down the team.

I agree. Unfortunately, it seems the league has “figured out our offense”. If in fact TS has “tells” or we just are very predictable I don’t know, but even we layman can typically tell what we are running before we do and what our strengths and weaknesses are. Unless we change one or two factors drastically (play calling, RT ability, formations, the QB, etc) not much will change from here on out.

[MasterShake]

I agree. Unfortunately, it seems the league has “figured out our offense”. If in fact TS has “tells” or we just are very predictable I don’t know, but even we layman can typically tell what we are running before we do and what our strengths and weaknesses are. Unless we change one or two factors drastically (play calling, RT ability, formations, the QB, etc) not much will change from here on out.

Basically teams are stacking the box and telling Trevor to beat them. So far he hasn't done that. But I remember not too long ago with Tebow teams did the same thing and we just kept running the ball until a big play would open up in the passing game. I would rather lose 12-9 with 30+ rushing attempts then get blown out with Trevor throwing it 40+ times I guess. Hell with our defense you might even be able to win a few games with clock control. Then we have the whole OTHER issue of special teams which I keep forgetting about...

[arapaho2]

Coaching Staff - Lack of prep. No adjustments in game. Poor game planning. Too much locked in (meaning continuing your plan and scheme, no matter the failure).

OLine - Always backpedaling or outright pushed back. No point of attack. No shifts. No forward push.

QB - His play is a byproduct of an OLine that cannot run block, cannot pass protect, can't hold him for 2.5 seconds.

Oz may come in for a few series with some success, but its only a matter of time until he breaks down under the rush as well.

bull...trevors problems are not entirely oline, true as with any line sometimes a guy just gets beat, we get beat a lot...but on most pass plays there is time and places to go, there are open guys, there are hot routes

trevors problems is he just isnt good, for every play where the oline is instantly crashed into TS, there are 3-4 where he simply over or under throws a open man, or misses wide open wrs while he stares down his first read
he also compounds the oline problems by continually backpeddling into sacks

yes the line can be a problem...but his biggest issue is himself

[Nomad]

Perhaps..... BRONCOS pull a Giants on the Chiefs. Trevor comes out of his funk.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Perhaps..... BRONCOS pull a Giants on the Chiefs. Trevor comes out of his funk.

The only way I can see it happening is if the defense plays lights out and gets turnovers. The big problem with KC is that they match up vs us perfectly. Our defense has 2 weaknesses- defending good TEs and mobile QBs. KC has both.

[Nomad]

The only way I can see it happening is if the defense plays lights out and gets turnovers. The big problem with KC is that they match up vs us perfectly. Our defense has 2 weaknesses- defending good TEs and mobile QBs. KC has both.

Yes....all true....still holding on to hope. #keepingthefaith

[Simple Jaded]

Hey, remember when it was Kubiak’s fault?

That was funny.

[slim]

Hey, remember when it was Kubiak’s fault?

That was funny.

lol

[Freyaka]

Hey, remember when it was Kubiak’s fault?

That was funny.

No, but seriously...Mike McCoy sucks...

among 5,000 other problems the Broncos have.

[Nomad]

No, but seriously...Mike McCoy sucks...

among 5,000 other problems the Broncos have.


UR was right.

[Cugel]

The only way I can see it happening is if the defense plays lights out and gets turnovers. The big problem with KC is that they match up vs us perfectly. Our defense has 2 weaknesses- defending good TEs and mobile QBs. KC has both.

Doesn't really matter how KC matches up against our defense if the offense can't score any points. KC might only need 3 points to win after all. Their defense is better than the Chargers, their crowd is a LOT larger and more fired up than the about 12,000 Chargers fans who quietly watched their team humiliate the Broncos, and their offense is the best in the league, with Alex Smith playing better than Tom Brady.

Theoretically we should be able to run up the middle of their defense, but couldn't run against about the NFL's worst run defense in LA. So, there's no reason to think they will be able to do anything against the Chiefs.

The Chiefs know the Broncos are desperate to run the ball. They will load the box with 9 defenders and dare Trevor to throw it to beat them. They know he can't and if they stuff the Broncos rushing attack the win automatically. Because Trevor certainly isn't going to pass the ball down the field to beat them.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It’s clear to me our offense has been very offensive of late

[MOtorboat]

It's not the offensive coordinator...

[Nomad]

It's not the offensive coordinator...

UR wants to box you. :D

[Simple Jaded]

McCoy is also running plays that everybody is seemingly calling for.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It's not the offensive coordinator...

Agreed