So i was told i was overreacting last night

[Northman]

Did we win? I went to bed at halftime because Weasel guaranteed a second half comeback. We be 4-1 right? :lol:




On a more serious front, nothing has changed offensively the last 3-4 years. The only game that was an offensive juggernaut was the Dallas game but Dallas has shown they are not the team that everyone thought they would be anyway. While at times Siemian has looked decent and even good but others he has looked like a B or C grade Qb. I know i know, any QB can have a bad game but what separates the great QB's from the middle of the pack QB's is consistency and frankly Trevor does not have that. I gave him a pass for quite a while but last night only proved to me that he just isnt the guy long term. We dont have a choice at this point in time as its either him, Brock, or Paxton but none of them are worth a damn so i think Elway needs to do some soul searching and realize he doesnt have his franchise QB yet. Trevor and Brock can certainly be a serviceable backup but they are not leaders of men and are not franchise QB's. The attitude of this team coming off a bye was simply embarrassing. The kicking and screaming attitude that Elway said he wanted just wasnt there and yes this was an important home game against a very bad and depleted Giants team. You just cant give away games like that when competing for the division and playoff aspirations. This team is not good enough defensively to repeat what they did in 15', so its imperative that the offense does more than they have been. As the Raiders and Cowboys have proven, just because you have good Olines does not mean you will automatically win ballgames. You have to have Qb's who can improvise and make plays when they are not there, you need QB's who can take care of the ball and not put your defense in bad situations. While a 3-2 record isnt the end of the world last night was a very glaring look at the reality of this football team. If they cant get up for a football game at home vs an 0-5 squad than its not a great sign for the rest of the season vs much better competition. I dont want the Broncos to quit the rest of the season, but i think it would be in their best interest to lose close games so that their draft position improves to a point where they can go after a legitimate QB. Either that, or start trying to set up trade proposals for guys like Rodgers, Brady, or Stafford and see what they have left in the tank. Hell, as much grief as i give Romo i would beg him and promise a BJ from Dogfish to come and play for this team.

Now, let the homers flame away.
,

[BroncoWave]

Damn dude break that paragraph up some. Ain't nobody trying to read that wall of text!

[atwater27]

I told my kid before the game, Denver should dominate this game, and if they somehow lose, then they are pretenders and are not even a playoff quality team. At this point I have lost confidence in Elway's and the Broncos scouting ability. Trevor Siemian is Kyle Orton 2.0, no amount of spin or creative statistic manipulation can convince me he will ever be a good quarterback. And for %#*$'s sake, how is it possible that Osweiler is even on an NFL roster, much less ours??? When you get treated for Gonorrhea, why would you willingly ask for it back? With Lynch looking like a bust, the only chance our offense has of being good in the next 3 years is the lottery chance of Machine gun Kelly suddenly gaining 50 I.Q. Points.

The coaching... Vance Walker. What exactly did he do as an assistant or coordinator that was so earth shattering to convince Elway to give the reigns of he franchise to him? I didn't see it, still don't. That 4th down call against the Bills was bush league and he has been just as unimpressive to me as he was as the Dolphins defensive coordinator. How is this offense any better and any less predictable than Kubiak's? It is painfully obvious to the average fan what is a run and what is a pass, creativity just isn't there. On defense, who didn't know that Engram was going to be their game plan? Who didn't know that they would pound the ball with Darkwa? Yet they ran free. The d has been solid, but somehow teams score on us. Broken coverage at the worst time after holding teams to under 200 yards passing, 3rd down woes, etc.

Not impressed at all with this years offense, our O line is a sieve again, the only bright spot I see is our new left tackle. With that 3 and out factory in business, it doesn't matter how good the D is. They'll get tired and injured. Booooo!

[Shazam!]

Historically Denver has never done well as big favorites. We've seen them lose games like this before. Reminds me of the Shanahan teams in 07 and 08 that came out flat, leaderless and lifeless.

Everyone wants to put the loss squarely on Simien, but again, the Broncos OLine got absolutely manhandled up front.

I feared they may lose this game, but i never would have believed they would show up so dead. I blame Coach Joseph for the performance, not having them prepped after the Bye. Even for a preseason game, it would mot be acceptable.

Ever since the Seattle Super Bowl, the OLine has been exposed as the weak link on offense. It is amazing to me they won the SB in 15 with that unit. Think about Peytons decline, went stride for stride with how bad the OLine was performing.

Elway went through it in his late years, Denver had the best OLine in the NFL for years. He knows what it takes for a QB to succeed. Why this problem can't seem to be fixed is a mystery.

They had a HUGE opportunity yesterday that was wasted with the KC loss. They could have been pushed to the top of the AFC playoff chase.

Now at least we know the truth, this year's Broncos are not ready for primetime and not a serious contender. How they respond the rest of the way will be a further testament to Joseph. Because if they lose next Sun in LA, this season could spiral out of control.

[VonDoom]

Now at least we know the truth, this year's Broncos are not ready for primetime and not a serious contender. How they respond the rest of the way will be a further testament to Joseph. Because if they lose next Sun in LA, this season could spiral out of control.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think the game in LA almost doesn't matter. The three after that are at KC, at Philly, vs NE. Anyone see one win there? So we're looking at 4-5 at best at that point.

[Traveler]

Where to begin?

1. If last night showed us anything, it is that TS is not the long term answer at QB. He is as good as he is going to get IMO. That pick six last night was all on him. He stared down the receiver making it easy for the CB to know where he was throwing the ball. He also gets rattled when he has to create on his own as a play breaks down, thus leading to horrible decision making.

2. It's clear Elway has two areas of player evaluation he should delegate to someone else. QB and OL. Those areas have been his Achilles heel since he has become the GM. While still early, it looks like they may have gotten lucky with Bolles at LT. Guess the sun shines on a cats ass every now and then. Seems his only successes on the OL have been Leary, Bolles, Paradis, with possibly Vasquez and Franklin before injuries. IIRC, Elway has drafted eight offensive linemen since becoming GM.

His draft misses include the following:

Phillip Blake, Michael Schofield, Ty Sambrailo, Vinston Painter, Max Garcia, Connor McGovern (jury still out).

In FA, he has done a little better, but that is not saying much. Signing veteran offensive linemen on the back end of their careers is not the optimal way to build an offensive line long term. Mathis, Barbre, and Clark paid short term dividends. But he missed badly when trying sign younger veterans, ie., Stephenson, and Watson ($18 million for this guy?).

As to the QB's, Elway may be a HOF'er, but he is a shitty evaluator of QB's. All his draft picks have been mediocre to horrible. Might be better to give Kubiak the reins when evaluating QB's from this point forward.

Chad Kelly- Can't evaluate due to injury
Paxton Lynch- Athletically gifted, seemingly a slow learner
Trevor Siemian- Smart, but inconsistent
Zac Dysert- Out of the league
Brock Osweiler-Backup at best

3. Coaching- VJ gets a slight pass from me as this is his first time as a HC at any level. Having said that, while he may be a so-called "leader of men", this team seems to have motivational issues. Playing up or down to an opponents level reflects badly on him. It's obvious Denver overlooked both Buffalo and the NYG. Coming out flat and unmotivated in both these games. He stated early on he wants to attack on offense. Thus far, this offense is not much different than last year. The scheme might have changed, but they are still one dimensional. Personally, the thing driving me completely crazy is this RB by committee BS. Anderson is not a threat and probably would become trade bait if I had anything to do with it. Jamaal Charles should become the starting RB with Booker backing him up IMO.

4. Lets get over the narrative this defense is elite. Last nights game completely destroyed this line of thought. A team missing six starters in critical positions
(3 offensive, 3 defensive) should have been dominated. They also had two weeks to prepare for this game. What happens? As CJ stated, they got their asses kicked.

What should happen going forward? If they can't become more consistent in the next 3-4 games, they are obligated to see what they have in Lynch. I truly believe Trevor has reached his ceiling. Lynch seems like a player that will only get better with playing time. This team (like most) selecting a 1st round QB doesn't have the luxury to sit them for more than a year. By seasons end, they need to know if they need to take another swing at drafting another QBOTF.

[Freyaka]

Did we win? I went to bed at halftime because Weasel guaranteed a second half comeback. We be 4-1 right? :lol:




On a more serious front, nothing has changed offensively the last 3-4 years. The only game that was an offensive juggernaut was the Dallas game but Dallas has shown they are not the team that everyone thought they would be anyway. While at times Siemian has looked decent and even good but others he has looked like a B or C grade Qb. I know i know, any QB can have a bad game but what separates the great QB's from the middle of the pack QB's is consistency and frankly Trevor does not have that.

I gave him a pass for quite a while but last night only proved to me that he just isnt the guy long term. We dont have a choice at this point in time as its either him, Brock, or Paxton but none of them are worth a damn so i think Elway needs to do some soul searching and realize he doesnt have his franchise QB yet. Trevor and Brock can certainly be a serviceable backup but they are not leaders of men and are not franchise QB's. The attitude of this team coming off a bye was simply embarrassing. The kicking and screaming attitude that Elway said he wanted just wasnt there and yes this was an important home game against a very bad and depleted Giants team. You just cant give away games like that when competing for the division and playoff aspirations.

This team is not good enough defensively to repeat what they did in 15', so its imperative that the offense does more than they have been. As the Raiders and Cowboys have proven, just because you have good Olines does not mean you will automatically win ballgames. You have to have Qb's who can improvise and make plays when they are not there, you need QB's who can take care of the ball and not put your defense in bad situations. While a 3-2 record isnt the end of the world last night was a very glaring look at the reality of this football team.

If they cant get up for a football game at home vs an 0-5 squad than its not a great sign for the rest of the season vs much better competition. I dont want the Broncos to quit the rest of the season, but i think it would be in their best interest to lose close games so that their draft position improves to a point where they can go after a legitimate QB. Either that, or start trying to set up trade proposals for guys like Rodgers, Brady, or Stafford and see what they have left in the tank. Hell, as much grief as i give Romo i would beg him and promise a BJ from Dogfish to come and play for this team.

Now, let the homers flame away.
,

Wall of text was too long...didn't read.


*edit* There... I tried to break up the wall a little yikes...

[Shazam!]

Everyone wants to blame Trevor but how can he be effective if he can't stand in the pocket for 2 seconds? He's on the way to a 40 or 50 sack season at this pace.

Cant blame the QB when the Oline is garbage.

[BroncoJoe]

Everyone wants to blame Trevor but how can he be effective if he can't stand in the pocket for 2 seconds? He's on the way to a 40 or 50 sack season at this pace.

Cant blame the QB when the Oline is garbage.

I noticed several times last night that Trevor could have avoided the rush. I'm a Trevor fan, and want him to do well, but at least two of the sacks last night were on him, IMO.

[Freyaka]

Everyone wants to blame Trevor but how can he be effective if he can't stand in the pocket for 2 seconds? He's on the way to a 40 or 50 sack season at this pace.

Cant blame the QB when the Oline is garbage.

Everyone wants to blame Trevor because it was on him...The o-line was a problem last night, but it wasn't the problem. Even i'm not defending him anymore. You aren't there yet, give it another game or two and you'll see the truth of the matter.

[GEM]

Siemian looks panicked back there, not because of actual pressure, but just panicked, he locks onto one guy and doesn't read where his guys are or where pressure is coming from. You can only blame the line so much when they have tried MULTIPLE different guys in different places and the result is the same. This same line has our rb's averaging at least 5 ypc, so at some point it sits at the feet of Siemian.

[Freyaka]

Siemian looks panicked back there, not because of actual pressure, but just panicked, he locks onto one guy and doesn't read where his guys are or where pressure is coming from. You can only blame the line so much when they have tried MULTIPLE different guys in different places and the result is the same. This same line has our rb's averaging at least 5 ypc, so at some point it sits at the feet of Siemian.

Yup, dude was seeing ghosts back there last night...

That's pretty much a tell tale sign you've ruined a QB. Even if we did get him a perfect line at this point, he's always going to jump at shadows and force bad decisions.

[BroncoJoe]

His pocket presence has been bad. Last night, it was terrible.

[Freyaka]

His pocket presence has been bad. Last night, it was terrible.

And we're not talking about some impressive powerful pass rush either, we're talking about the previously 8 sack Giants. And a lot of it wasn't the o-line pissing the bed, it was Trevor holding the ball for WAAAAYYY too long or drifting right into the pass rusher...

[Broncoknight30]

It seems to me that Siemian is at his best when he runs play action. He seems to be poised and he has shown ability to make the throws. The problem is the running game is inconsistent and therefore ineffective.

When Siemian is not running play action and just doing straight pass plays, he is less than ordinary.

I believe he is NOT the answer. I do think he is a competent back up QB in this league and that is no small thing. That is a valuable commodity for any team. The problem as I see it in this hard cap league is when a QB is paid top dollar, all of a sudden that team tends to suffer.

We would all love to have Andrew Luck. Well, he comes with a steep price. People wonder why the Colts cannot field a team around him. Not all that hard to figure out why. When ONE player (even a franchise QB) takes up that much money, it becomes really problematic.

Look at the highest paid QBs in the league and look what typically happens to those franchises AFTER they pay their QBs. The Ravens, after their SB paid Flacco top dollar. They had to get rid of 7 players the next year to accommodate that contract. They have been woefully inconsistent as a franchise since.

In case some are wondering, Tom Brady is the 16th highest paid QB in the NFL. We can argue he is the best QB and he does not break the bank of the Pats. Are they pulling a cheatriots trick with that? Probably, but it has not been addressed at all by the league. Which means as of now that is legit.

This team over the last 3 games has averaged 14 points per game. Does not help that Mcmanus all of sudden cannot hit FGs.

[Northman]

Every team has issues in some regard. Even the better teams bit Siemian has hit his plateau and yes he was worse than the oline last night. His game last night reminded me of Paxton in the preseason when he started. Trevor shit the bed and at this stage of his development that should not be happening.

[weazel]

Did we win? I went to bed at halftime because Weasel guaranteed a second half comeback. We be 4-1 right? :lol:




On a more serious front, nothing has changed offensively the last 3-4 years. The only game that was an offensive juggernaut was the Dallas game but Dallas has shown they are not the team that everyone thought they would be anyway. While at times Siemian has looked decent and even good but others he has looked like a B or C grade Qb. I know i know, any QB can have a bad game but what separates the great QB's from the middle of the pack QB's is consistency and frankly Trevor does not have that. I gave him a pass for quite a while but last night only proved to me that he just isnt the guy long term. We dont have a choice at this point in time as its either him, Brock, or Paxton but none of them are worth a damn so i think Elway needs to do some soul searching and realize he doesnt have his franchise QB yet. Trevor and Brock can certainly be a serviceable backup but they are not leaders of men and are not franchise QB's. The attitude of this team coming off a bye was simply embarrassing. The kicking and screaming attitude that Elway said he wanted just wasnt there and yes this was an important home game against a very bad and depleted Giants team. You just cant give away games like that when competing for the division and playoff aspirations. This team is not good enough defensively to repeat what they did in 15', so its imperative that the offense does more than they have been. As the Raiders and Cowboys have proven, just because you have good Olines does not mean you will automatically win ballgames. You have to have Qb's who can improvise and make plays when they are not there, you need QB's who can take care of the ball and not put your defense in bad situations. While a 3-2 record isnt the end of the world last night was a very glaring look at the reality of this football team. If they cant get up for a football game at home vs an 0-5 squad than its not a great sign for the rest of the season vs much better competition. I dont want the Broncos to quit the rest of the season, but i think it would be in their best interest to lose close games so that their draft position improves to a point where they can go after a legitimate QB. Either that, or start trying to set up trade proposals for guys like Rodgers, Brady, or Stafford and see what they have left in the tank. Hell, as much grief as i give Romo i would beg him and promise a BJ from Dogfish to come and play for this team.

Now, let the homers flame away.
,

I figured they would wake up at some point, guess I underestimated how poopy this offense is. Can someone show Siemien how to look off a defender? Holy ******* tunnel vision.

I'm not going to try and read that block of text though, North.

[Cugel]

Historically Denver has never done well as big favorites. We've seen them lose games like this before. Reminds me of the Shanahan teams in 07 and 08 that came out flat, leaderless and lifeless.

Everyone wants to put the loss squarely on Simien, but again, the Broncos OLine got absolutely manhandled up front.

I feared they may lose this game, but i never would have believed they would show up so dead. I blame Coach Joseph for the performance, not having them prepped after the Bye. Even for a preseason game, it would mot be acceptable.

Ever since the Seattle Super Bowl, the OLine has been exposed as the weak link on offense. It is amazing to me they won the SB in 15 with that unit. Think about Peytons decline, went stride for stride with how bad the OLine was performing.

Elway went through it in his late years, Denver had the best OLine in the NFL for years. He knows what it takes for a QB to succeed. Why this problem can't seem to be fixed is a mystery.

They had a HUGE opportunity yesterday that was wasted with the KC loss. They could have been pushed to the top of the AFC playoff chase.

Now at least we know the truth, this year's Broncos are not ready for primetime and not a serious contender. How they respond the rest of the way will be a further testament to Joseph. Because if they lose next Sun in LA, this season could spiral out of control.

Except that nobody else is playing much better. We'd say the Chiefs, except they just lost at home to a not terrific Steelers team.

What it comes down to is this: "Do the Broncos have a chance if Trevor continues to throw 6 Ints for every 8 TDs? No." If he cleans up his act a bit, and stops throwing stupid picks at the worst times, then yes.

The Patriots defense is the worst in the NFL. Dead last in yards per game. They managed to rally down 14 to the Jets on Sunday! Whoot! Whoot!

But, they are not playing like a team serious about making a SB run. No matter how good Brady is, they can't expect to win just based on offense. We've seen that doesn't work in the NFL. Some team will play decent defense against them and slow down their offense, and then where are they? Nowhere. That is what happened to all those Peyton Manning led Colts teams as well as the 2013 Broncos. It's wildly exciting until you give up 38 points and lose 38-34 or something.

The OL is terrible, but Brady's OL is worse, the OL of the Giants was horrible until last night, and will be horrible again next week and in weeks to come. The Seahawks have had terrible OL play for years. The Cowboys OL has struggled this season.

Really, who is playing great football right now? This is a mediocrity of garbage all over the league. It's not that lots of teams are really good and are beating each other up, it's that nobody is really very good and thus they play well one week, and horrible the next, and then OK the next, and so on.

[Broncoknight30]

Except that nobody else is playing much better. We'd say the Chiefs, except they just lost at home to a not terrific Steelers team.

What it comes down to is this: "Do the Broncos have a chance if Trevor continues to throw 6 Ints for every 8 TDs? No." If he cleans up his act a bit, and stops throwing stupid picks at the worst times, then yes.

The Patriots defense is the worst in the NFL. Dead last in yards per game. They managed to rally down 14 to the Jets on Sunday! Whoot! Whoot!

But, they are not playing like a team serious about making a SB run. No matter how good Brady is, they can't expect to win just based on offense. We've seen that doesn't work in the NFL. Some team will play decent defense against them and slow down their offense, and then where are they? Nowhere. That is what happened to all those Peyton Manning led Colts teams as well as the 2013 Broncos. It's wildly exciting until you give up 38 points and lose 38-34 or something.

The OL is terrible, but Brady's OL is worse, the OL of the Giants was horrible until last night, and will be horrible again next week and in weeks to come. The Seahawks have had terrible OL play for years. The Cowboys OL has struggled this season.

Really, who is playing great football right now? This is a mediocrity of garbage all over the league. It's not that lots of teams are really good and are beating each other up, it's that nobody is really very good and thus they play well one week, and horrible the next, and then OK the next, and so on.

Yeah, all true.

What i find interesting is there are no really unreal teams in the NFL.

What team right now can we say is so great right now? 5 games in, and no more unbeatens. 2nd year in a row that there are no unbeatens before week 6.

There are just no truly great teams right now as far as I can see. The parity of the NFL is coming through. Not sure how good that is.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I think everything needs to be put into context. Cugel is right. Right now everyone in the NFL has some fatal flaws that make them beatable by any team in the league if the ball bounces the right way.

We are wanting a year three (second year of actually playing) to be one of the top 5 QB's in the NFL? Or top 10? I seem to remember several established QB's making some pretty bad throws in their second year. Derek Carr had 3 pick sixes his 2nd year. Shit he is terrible, get rid of him.

He hasn't been playing great, but he is a work in progress. If we can get better running the ball and a little better in pass protection, he'll be fine.

[MasterShake]

I just can't push the panic button just yet, but the last 3 games have been disappointing. The bad news is we have an average to below average team right now, but part of me still thinks they still have games like they did against Dallas left in them as opposed to the Buffalo and Giants games. Looking at the game again today it seems like the Broncos were just hit in the chin by how the Giants played on both sides of the ball and really took them out of the game early.

The next 3 to 4 weeks will tell us a lot about this team. If they lay another egg against the Chargers then I am just going to relax and lower my expectations. Either way I don't see the need outside of when I am watching the game to let any of this effect me emotionally. I work with a Steelers fan that was beside himself with borderline depression after the previous weeks game where Big Ben threw like 5 INTs and today of course he is strutting around the office. It is so week to week in this league, and this season is especially weird.

Who is the dominant team in the NFL? The Chiefs looked anemic yesterday. The Pats are scraping by. And hey, at least we didn't have a hall of fame QB to lose like Green Bay. The Broncos are already 2-0 in the division with a chance to be 3-0. I will reserve judgment until after next week. They better come out pissed off and tear the Chargers apart. I will be there either way like an idiot cheering them on.

[WARHORSE]

Trevor cant read a defense. He stares down receivers on most routes. Seems like theres no understanding between Trevor and rest of offense on blitzes. No hot reads.

There was one play where Charles read the d, came out of the backfield on a fast swing that would have gone for probably 20, and Trevor couldnt get the ball to him.


Denver needs to hire Peyton to come in and coach this kid at the line......or just move on.

[Freyaka]

I think everything needs to be put into context. Cugel is right. Right now everyone in the NFL has some fatal flaws that make them beatable by any team in the league if the ball bounces the right way.

We are wanting a year three (second year of actually playing) to be one of the top 5 QB's in the NFL? Or top 10? I seem to remember several established QB's making some pretty bad throws in their second year. Derek Carr had 3 pick sixes his 2nd year. Shit he is terrible, get rid of him.

He hasn't been playing great, but he is a work in progress. If we can get better running the ball and a little better in pass protection, he'll be fine.

No, we'd be content with consistent play and putting up more than one TD in the last 8 fricken quarters... You can put the spin on it all you want, he's playing like dog feces... It's time we get past this silly defense, no one wants him to be top 5, we'd just like to see him not be Kyle Orton.

I used to make these same silly excuses, but come on man...If you can't see how broken he is at this point...The guy has NO pocket presence and is jumping at shadows.

[Davii]

In case some are wondering, Tom Brady is the 16th highest paid QB in the NFL. We can argue he is the best QB and he does not break the bank of the Pats. Are they pulling a cheatriots trick with that? Probably, but it has not been addressed at all by the league. Which means as of now that is legit.

There's no trick or anything illegal about Tom Brady routinely agreeing to restructure his contract and that he makes less than many other top flight QBs. What exactly do you think the league needs to address? Should all starting QBs make the exact same amount of money?

[Cugel]

Trevor cant read a defense. He stares down receivers on most routes. Seems like theres no understanding between Trevor and rest of offense on blitzes. No hot reads.

There was one play where Charles read the d, came out of the backfield on a fast swing that would have gone for probably 20, and Trevor couldnt get the ball to him.

Denver needs to hire Peyton to come in and coach this kid at the line......or just move on.

Move on to whom exactly?

There are no white knights coming to the rescue!

Paxton? Paxton is a bust. Let's face it. Name me another SB winning QB who failed to win the starting job (when it was open to him) for his first 2 seasons. I can't think of one, can you? As bad as he looked in pre-season games sometimes, in closed practices he was getting picked off by our defense all the time and failing to read defenses correctly, etc. He's completely useless and it's time to face up to that fact, no matter how big John Elway's ego is. That guy will never be a star in this league.

Brock? He just got run out of town from Houston and Cleveland. Take a look at their QBs right now:

DeShone Kiser - 3 TDs, 9 Ints, a 50% completion % and a passer rating of 49.5.

How about Houston?: They gave up a 2nd round pick just to get RID of Osweiler, and then went out in the draft and traded up to get DeShaun Watson. Giving up a pick just to get rid of a guy you paid $37M to in guarantees just the season before is not an endorsement. Osweiler is a bust too.

Elway is 0-2 in first and second round QBs drafted during his tenure.


Every team has issues in some regard. Even the better teams bit Siemian has hit his plateau and yes he was worse than the oline last night. His game last night reminded me of Paxton in the preseason when he started. Trevor shit the bed and at this stage of his development that should not be happening.

Mediocre is mediocre. Graphically represented it looks like this:

11205
Up one week, down the next. And after every high point, coaches media and fans all say: "Trevor had a good week. Now if he could just build off his positives and correct a few glaring deficiencies like his tendency to throw the ball into tight coverages and get it picked off then we'd really have something." Only next week he regresses. One week 2 TDs and no picks, and the team wins. The next week, 2 INTs including a pick 6 and he not only regresses but throws out his shoulder trying to tackle the defender from running into the end-zone with the ball.

Next week, he'll probably throw 2 TDs and no Ints, and people will say "he's turning the corner, and getting better." No, he's not. He's mediocre. That means some good and then some bad, and then some more good and then some bad.

When you play at the TOP of the curve all the time that means you are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers, Ben Rothlisberger (when he's not throwing 5 picks). We don't have a "plus-A-grade QB."

We have a former 7th round pick who is smart. And mediocre.

[Broncoknight30]

There's no trick or anything illegal about Tom Brady routinely agreeing to restructure his contract and that he makes less than many other top flight QBs. What exactly do you think the league needs to address? Should all starting QBs make the exact same amount of money?

Nothing. I said since the league has NOT addressed that, then there is probably nothing technically wrong with that.

When you have arguably the best QB in the league and he does not break the bank of a franchise, then that is a big advantage.

Nothing technically wrong with that. However, most teams cannot realistically even hope for that.

[Cugel]

No, we'd be content with consistent play and putting up more than one TD in the last 8 fricken quarters... You can put the spin on it all you want, he's playing like dog feces... It's time we get past this silly defense, no one wants him to be top 5, we'd just like to see him not be Kyle Orton.

I used to make these same silly excuses, but come on man...If you can't see how broken he is at this point...The guy has NO pocket presence and is jumping at shadows.

I'd agree but what did you expect? He's breaking under the pressure right now. But, I expect him to get better. He's mediocre that's why. And a mediocre guy will have a good game, a bad game, a good game, a couple of bad games, a few good games that get everybody excited, then lay a giant stinking turd in the playoffs like Alex Smith usually does or Andy Dalton.

What are we supposed to do if the reality is in the NFL that about 6 teams with elite QBs have any real chance to go deep in the playoffs and win SBs on a consistent basis, and that is because they have elite Hall of Fame level QBs? And everybody else is screwed because they don't?

The NFL is actually a LOT better than other sports. Take a look at basketball: you either have LeBron or Steff Curry or forget about any hope of a championship. I actually predicted the GSW in 5 games before the season
started. No surprise. I didn't watch any of the entire NBA season. I don't give a crap about boring coronations.

Take a look at baseball: You either have a pitching staff like the Dodgers or you don't. The Rockies don't and therefore they have close to zero chance of ever winning the World Series.

Football is slightly different in that 1 team about every ten years manages to win with smothering defense and a not-elite QB. The 2015 Broncos, the 2002 Bucs with Brad Johnson, the 2000 Ravens with Trent Dilfer, the '85 Bears with Jim McMahon. ONE team every ten years and never the same one twice. That's about it.

Otherwise you either have an elite QB or no dice.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Davii View Post
There's no trick or anything illegal about Tom Brady routinely agreeing to restructure his contract and that he makes less than many other top flight QBs. What exactly do you think the league needs to address? Should all starting QBs make the exact same amount of money?


Tom Brady doesn't need the money.


It is estimated that Brady earns $8 million in endorsements, which include deals with Under Armour and UGG Boots. CelebrityNetWorth puts Tom Brady's career net worth at $180 million, which is far from his wife Gisele Bündchen's $380 million in her respective career as a super model. (https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/02/05/tom-brady-net-worth)

The additional money he could earn is actually LESS than the amount of money he can make from endorsements and from interest on his fortune. He earns more by playing in the SB than if he took $25 M a year and the team was out of the playoffs.

But, most guys don't have Super Model wives worth $380 M.

[Broncoknight30]

Move on to whom exactly?

There are no white knights coming to the rescue!

Paxton? Paxton is a bust. Let's face it. Name me another SB winning QB who failed to win the starting job (when it was open to him) for his first 2 seasons. I can't think of one, can you? As bad as he looked in pre-season games sometimes, in closed practices he was getting picked off by our defense all the time and failing to read defenses correctly, etc. He's completely useless and it's time to face up to that fact, no matter how big John Elway's ego is. That guy will never be a star in this league.

Brock? He just got run out of town from Houston and Cleveland. Take a look at their QBs right now:

DeShone Kiser - 3 TDs, 9 Ints, a 50% completion % and a passer rating of 49.5.

How about Houston?: They gave up a 2nd round pick just to get RID of Osweiler, and then went out in the draft and traded up to get DeShaun Watson. Giving up a pick just to get rid of a guy you paid $37M to in guarantees just the season before is not an endorsement. Osweiler is a bust too.

Elway is 0-2 in first and second round QBs drafted during his tenure.



Mediocre is mediocre. Graphically represented it looks like this:

11205
Up one week, down the next. And after every high point, coaches media and fans all say: "Trevor had a good week. Now if he could just build off his positives and correct a few glaring deficiencies like his tendency to throw the ball into tight coverages and get it picked off then we'd really have something." Only next week he regresses. One week 2 TDs and no picks, and the team wins. The next week, 2 INTs including a pick 6 and he not only regresses but throws out his shoulder trying to tackle the defender from running into the end-zone with the ball.

Next week, he'll probably throw 2 TDs and no Ints, and people will say "he's turning the corner, and getting better." No, he's not. He's mediocre. That means some good and then some bad, and then some more good and then some bad.

When you play at the TOP of the curve all the time that means you are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers, Ben Rothlisberger (when he's not throwing 5 picks). We don't have a "plus-A-grade QB."

We have a former 7th round pick who is smart. And mediocre.

The gloomy part is he really has not been effective since week 2. Team has averaged 14 points over the last 3 games.

Cannot tell which game was worse, the Giants or Bills game. Granted, those are solid defenses, but 3 weeks in a row and this offense has been pure crap. He has been very inconsistent. Rather predictable.

Did we all really expect him to be a great ABOUT?

[Cugel]

"i think Elway needs to do some soul searching and realize he doesnt have his franchise QB yet."

Not surprising really. If Trevor WAS that SB QB it would be one of the greatest freak events in NFL history. Up there with Kurt Warner and better than Tom Brady (who was a 6th rounder while Trevor was a 7th round pick).

John Elway left town and the best QB that Mike Shanahan could come up with over the next 10 seasons was Jay Cutler.

He got fired and the Broncos tried Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow. Then they got lucky and Peyton signed the FA contract.

Know who John Elway really liked in the 2012 NFL draft if he didn't get Peyton? Brandon Weeden. He was old coming into the league and thought to be "more mature and NFL ready." So, as bad as the Osweiler and Lynch draftings was, it could have been even worse. They could have had Tim Tebow and Branden Weeden as their starting QBs for 2 seasons.

At least Paxton never got to start!

[LawDog]

Nothing. I said since the league has NOT addressed that, then there is probably nothing technically wrong with that.

When you have arguably the best QB in the league and he does not break the bank of a franchise, then that is a big advantage.

Nothing technically wrong with that. However, most teams cannot realistically even hope for that.

They could just assign all QB's a supermodel wife who rakes about $100 million a year and then the QBs will restructure the crap out of their contracts.

[BigDaddyBronco]

"i think Elway needs to do some soul searching and realize he doesnt have his franchise QB yet."

Not surprising really. If Trevor WAS that SB QB it would be one of the greatest freak events in NFL history. Up there with Kurt Warner and better than Tom Brady (who was a 6th rounder while Trevor was a 7th round pick).

John Elway left town and the best QB that Mike Shanahan could come up with over the next 10 seasons was Jay Cutler.

He got fired and the Broncos tried Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow. Then they got lucky and Peyton signed the FA contract.

Know who John Elway really liked in the 2012 NFL draft if he didn't get Peyton? Brandon Weeden. He was old coming into the league and thought to be "more mature and NFL ready." So, as bad as the Osweiler and Lynch draftings was, it could have been even worse. They could have had Tim Tebow and Branden Weeden as their starting QBs for 2 seasons.

At least Paxton never got to start!

What makes you think that Elway can draft a franchise QB?

[weazel]

Did we win? I went to bed at halftime because Weasel guaranteed a second half comeback. We be 4-1 right? :lol:




On a more serious front, nothing has changed offensively the last 3-4 years. The only game that was an offensive juggernaut was the Dallas game but Dallas has shown they are not the team that everyone thought they would be anyway. While at times Siemian has looked decent and even good but others he has looked like a B or C grade Qb. I know i know, any QB can have a bad game but what separates the great QB's from the middle of the pack QB's is consistency and frankly Trevor does not have that. I gave him a pass for quite a while but last night only proved to me that he just isnt the guy long term. We dont have a choice at this point in time as its either him, Brock, or Paxton but none of them are worth a damn so i think Elway needs to do some soul searching and realize he doesnt have his franchise QB yet. Trevor and Brock can certainly be a serviceable backup but they are not leaders of men and are not franchise QB's. The attitude of this team coming off a bye was simply embarrassing. The kicking and screaming attitude that Elway said he wanted just wasnt there and yes this was an important home game against a very bad and depleted Giants team. You just cant give away games like that when competing for the division and playoff aspirations. This team is not good enough defensively to repeat what they did in 15', so its imperative that the offense does more than they have been. As the Raiders and Cowboys have proven, just because you have good Olines does not mean you will automatically win ballgames. You have to have Qb's who can improvise and make plays when they are not there, you need QB's who can take care of the ball and not put your defense in bad situations. While a 3-2 record isnt the end of the world last night was a very glaring look at the reality of this football team. If they cant get up for a football game at home vs an 0-5 squad than its not a great sign for the rest of the season vs much better competition. I dont want the Broncos to quit the rest of the season, but i think it would be in their best interest to lose close games so that their draft position improves to a point where they can go after a legitimate QB. Either that, or start trying to set up trade proposals for guys like Rodgers, Brady, or Stafford and see what they have left in the tank. Hell, as much grief as i give Romo i would beg him and promise a BJ from Dogfish to come and play for this team.

Now, let the homers flame away.
,

I don't remember telling anyone they were overreacting...

[Hawgdriver]

I don't remember telling anyone they were overreacting...

It was late and you'd had a lot to drink.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

As crappy as we looked last night we still should have had a chance to win. It should have been 20-20 at the end of regulation if not for a blown call on the goal line and another freaking shanked chip shot.

[Hawgdriver]

As crappy as we looked last night we still should have had a chance to win. It should have been 20-20 at the end of regulation if not for a blown call on the goal line and another freaking shanked chip shot.

Give us one day to be 14 year old emo girls, Mayor.

[wayninja]

I'm still just trying to figure out who Vance Walker and Weasel are.

[NightTerror218]

This is the same TS I was harsh on last season and was told off because it was his first season. Bad habits are still bad habits and I was hoping new coaching would fix it.

If TS does not have a lead or close game he is a game manager and can look good. If there is pressure to,make a play or coming from behind he is bad. He MUST have a good ground game to look good. Last year OL was bad akd I gave him that. This year its slightlh improved but he is seeing ghosts. A few to.es he could have stepped up in pocket be he scrambled out to side and sacked. He about had a butt fumble moment stepping up and into paradox and sacked. JPP sack was only 1 not on siemian.

I think he is best QB on roster but I think lynch can develop more before completely written off.

[Northman]

Damn dude break that paragraph up some. Ain't nobody trying to read that wall of text!

Im looking at my screen now, it is a paragraph. :lol:

[Northman]

I'm not going to try and read that block of text though, North.


You are missing a quality hottake my brother!

[BroncoWave]

You are missing a quality hottake my brother!

I need my hot takes to be short and quickly readable. TIA.

[Northman]

I need my hot takes to be short and quickly readable. TIA.

Not my fault you cant read. :)

[DT88TheGreat]

Paxton lynch must play the rest of the season, he deserves his shot to develop during real games with real starters, and then him and Kelly can compete for the job if Paxton doesn't start to CLICK around week 12 and forward, but it's important we actually put the first round pick on the field the rest of the way, can't pull him either we have to take the bad and keep rolling so we can see if he's learning and getting better as the season progresses.

[BroncoWave]

Paxton lynch must play the rest of the season, he deserves his shot to develop during real games with real starters, and then him and Kelly can compete for the job if Paxton doesn't start to CLICK around week 12 and forward, but it's important we actually put the first round pick on the field the rest of the way, can't pull him either we have to take the bad and keep rolling so we can see if he's learning and getting better as the season progresses.

Ok Lynch12/yash

[DT88TheGreat]

I agree with the sentiment, but I think the game in LA almost doesn't matter. The three after that are at KC, at Philly, vs NE. Anyone see one win there? So we're looking at 4-5 at best at that point.

You actually think the patriots are good? Lol there defense is absolutely pathetic.

[weazel]

Paxton lynch must play the rest of the season, he deserves his shot to develop during real games with real starters, and then him and Kelly can compete for the job if Paxton doesn't start to CLICK around week 12 and forward, but it's important we actually put the first round pick on the field the rest of the way, can't pull him either we have to take the bad and keep rolling so we can see if he's learning and getting better as the season progresses.

I think Paxton's mom has some valid points

[DT88TheGreat]

Yup, dude was seeing ghosts back there last night...

That's pretty much a tell tale sign you've ruined a QB. Even if we did get him a perfect line at this point, he's always going to jump at shadows and force bad decisions.

Denver ruined him? Trevor was a 7th round pick for a reason, nobody ruined him he just was never good as you and other's thought he was. Couldn't start at northwestern of all places, drafted in round 7 but yet Denver ruined him? Please.

[DT88TheGreat]

I'd agree but what did you expect? He's breaking under the pressure right now. But, I expect him to get better. He's mediocre that's why. And a mediocre guy will have a good game, a bad game, a good game, a couple of bad games, a few good games that get everybody excited, then lay a giant stinking turd in the playoffs like Alex Smith usually does or Andy Dalton.

What are we supposed to do if the reality is in the NFL that about 6 teams with elite QBs have any real chance to go deep in the playoffs and win SBs on a consistent basis, and that is because they have elite Hall of Fame level QBs? And everybody else is screwed because they don't?

The NFL is actually a LOT better than other sports. Take a look at basketball: you either have LeBron or Steff Curry or forget about any hope of a championship. I actually predicted the GSW in 5 games before the season
started. No surprise. I didn't watch any of the entire NBA season. I don't give a crap about boring coronations.

Take a look at baseball: You either have a pitching staff like the Dodgers or you don't. The Rockies don't and therefore they have close to zero chance of ever winning the World Series.

Football is slightly different in that 1 team about every ten years manages to win with smothering defense and a not-elite QB. The 2015 Broncos, the 2002 Bucs with Brad Johnson, the 2000 Ravens with Trent Dilfer, the '85 Bears with Jim McMahon. ONE team every ten years and never the same one twice. That's about it.

Otherwise you either have an elite QB or no dice.

Wakr me up when he has a few good game's in a row..... Just like last year he has one good game per year, Bengals last year, cowboys this year. Trevor isn't even mediocre he is a poor starting quarterback, whise best suited to be a back up who comes in every once in awhile and helps win a game. Its astonishing that people are still giving him a pass.

[DenBronx]

Our QB is NOT on this roster. We obviously suck at drafting QBs so why not go out and make a trade for one?

Rivers, Stafford, Manning or Brees. Those are the only guys I think that could be traded for. Brees is the oldest of that group but he maybe has another year or 2. However, he is still playing at a high level. Heck...talk Romo out of retirement. Out of those I listed I think Rivers or Manning could come here on a reasonable trade. The sooner the better. Trade Lynch and Trevor then keep Brock as the backup. Stafford would be my first choice but he just got an insane contract. Hell...cut McANUS...guy can't make a field goal to save his life anyway.

Bottom line is we could of got someone else and we are literally wasting this defense away. There is no urgency and zero passion to win except from maybe Wolfe and DT. It sucks to see this.

I'll say it and most of you will probably flame away at me but I disagreed with losing Wade Phillips, TJ Ward and not hiring Shanahan. I truly believe this team would be better. We keep losing key guys from our SB defense and now it is just a shadow of what it once was. VJ has made some drastically bad coaching decisions this year so far. What makes him so special?

I just don't like the changes we have made and I certainly hate the direction we are going. It sucks to lose to maybe the NFLs worst team and something must be done.

VJ get your head out of your ass! Light a fire under these melon collied idiots!!

[DenBronx]

Pick up the phone Elway and start making some deals!!

[DenBronx]

John Elway left town and the best QB that Mike Shanahan could come up with over the next 10 seasons was Jay Cutler.



What makes you think that Elway can draft a franchise QB?


Nope, it was Jake Plummer. Jake the Snake was damn good here.

[BroncoWave]

Pick up the phone Elway and start making some deals!!

Yes, I'm sure Elway was just going to stand pat until some nobody on a message board demanded he do otherwise! :lol:

[olathebroncofan]

Joel said your posts are too wordy.

[Freyaka]

Denver ruined him? Trevor was a 7th round pick for a reason, nobody ruined him he just was never good as you and other's thought he was. Couldn't start at northwestern of all places, drafted in round 7 but yet Denver ruined him? Please.

http://bottega.avalonceltic.com/rep_immagini/prod/troll_196.jpg

[DT88TheGreat]

Our QB is NOT on this roster. We obviously suck at drafting QBs so why not go out and make a trade for one?

Rivers, Stafford, Manning or Brees. Those are the only guys I think that could be traded for. Brees is the oldest of that group but he maybe has another year or 2. However, he is still playing at a high level. Heck...talk Romo out of retirement. Out of those I listed I think Rivers or Manning could come here on a reasonable trade. The sooner the better. Trade Lynch and Trevor then keep Brock as the backup. Stafford would be my first choice but he just got an insane contract. Hell...cut McANUS...guy can't make a field goal to save his life anyway.

Bottom line is we could of got someone else and we are literally wasting this defense away. There is no urgency and zero passion to win except from maybe Wolfe and DT. It sucks to see this.

I'll say it and most of you will probably flame away at me but I disagreed with losing Wade Phillips, TJ Ward and not hiring Shanahan. I truly believe this team would be better. We keep losing key guys from our SB defense and now it is just a shadow of what it once was. VJ has made some drastically bad coaching decisions this year so far. What makes him so special?

I just don't like the changes we have made and I certainly hate the direction we are going. It sucks to lose to maybe the NFLs worst team and something must be done.

VJ get your head out of your ass! Light a fire under these melon collied idiots!!

Trade our quarterback with the highest upside and keep Brock..... Come on mannnnn :/

[I Eat Staples]

Ok Lynch12/yash

Eh, regardless of his intentions/loyalties, he's right this time.

If you draft a QB in the 1st round you have to give him a chance at some point before you move on. It made sense to keep him on the bench as long as we thought we could compete, but we can't. We're not coming back from that loss last night. If we can't beat the Giants at home, there's no point in wasting the rest of the season on Siemian to go 7-9 or something.

When Lynch is healthy, he should start, and then they can decide whether he really sucks or not before the offseason. We've seen enough of Siemian.

[BroncoWave]

Eh, regardless of his intentions/loyalties, he's right this time.

If you draft a QB in the 1st round you have to give him a chance at some point before you move on. It made sense to keep him on the bench as long as we thought we could compete, but we can't. We're not coming back from that loss last night. If we can't beat the Giants at home, there's no point in wasting the rest of the season on Siemian to go 7-9 or something.

When Lynch is healthy, he should start, and then they can decide whether he really sucks or not before the offseason. We've seen enough of Siemian.

I would still wait until we are out of the playoff picture to start Lynch. Once you get in the playoffs, you never know what can happen, especially this year in what seems to be a really weak year at the top of the league. As bad as Siemian is, I still think he gives us a better chance than Lynch to win this year. As long as we still have a chance this year, I would not be in favor of putting Lynch in. He's been awful in every chance he has gotten, and unless the coaches have seen him turn a corner in practice, I see no reason to put him in at the time.

[wayninja]

Trade our quarterback with the highest upside and keep Brock..... Come on mannnnn :/

Sorry, I may have missed it. Which one of our QB's has an upside?

[DT88TheGreat]

Our QB is NOT on this roster. We obviously suck at drafting QBs so why not go out and make a trade for one?

Rivers, Stafford, Manning or Brees. Those are the only guys I think that could be traded for. Brees is the oldest of that group but he maybe has another year or 2. However, he is still playing at a high level. Heck...talk Romo out of retirement. Out of those I listed I think Rivers or Manning could come here on a reasonable trade. The sooner the better. Trade Lynch and Trevor then keep Brock as the backup. Stafford would be my first choice but he just got an insane contract. Hell...cut McANUS...guy can't make a field goal to save his life anyway.

Bottom line is we could of got someone else and we are literally wasting this defense away. There is no urgency and zero passion to win except from maybe Wolfe and DT. It sucks to see this.

I'll say it and most of you will probably flame away at me but I disagreed with losing Wade Phillips, TJ Ward and not hiring Shanahan. I truly believe this team would be better. We keep losing key guys from our SB defense and now it is just a shadow of what it once was. VJ has made some drastically bad coaching decisions this year so far. What makes him so special?

I just don't like the changes we have made and I certainly hate the direction we are going. It sucks to lose to maybe the NFLs worst team and something must be done.

VJ get your head out of your ass! Light a fire under these melon collied idiots!!

The Broncos have lost 2 game's and you are taking shots at VJ? VJ is a great coach, Denver couldn't pay Phillips HC money and risk losing the up n coming woods. The defense is just fine, this is the type of non sense im talking about with some of you questioning the defense after a loss where they only gave up 13 point's. Get a grip amigo.

[wayninja]

I love taking shots at VJ.

[DT88TheGreat]

I would still wait until we are out of the playoff picture to start Lynch. Once you get in the playoffs, you never know what can happen, especially this year in what seems to be a really weak year at the top of the league. As bad as Siemian is, I still think he gives us a better chance than Lynch to win this year. As long as we still have a chance this year, I would not be in favor of putting Lynch in. He's been awful in every chance he has gotten, and unless the coaches have seen him turn a corner in practice, I see no reason to put him in at the time.

So you wanna wait until week 12-13 and onky give lynch a few game's? Makes no sense, we aren't contenders with Trevor, we aren't making the playoff, wasting the next 9 games to see if we're mathmatically eliminated would be the biggest mistake ever. Trevor must be benched, weve seen enough, he isn't the answer. Paxton needs atleast 10 game's out there to truly be evaluated.

[wayninja]

So you wanna wait until week 12-13 and onky give lynch a few game's? Makes no sense, we aren't contenders with Trevor, we aren't making the playoff, wasting the next 9 games to see if we're mathmatically eliminated would be the biggest mistake ever. Trevor must be benched, weve seen enough, he isn't the answer. Paxton needs atleast 10 game's out there to truly be evaluated.

As much as I find your posting style insufferable, I have a hard time disagreeing.

[weazel]

I honestly dont care who they throw out there, I doubt it could get any worse

[Broncoknight30]

http://bottega.avalonceltic.com/rep_immagini/prod/troll_196.jpg

That is true. It is not unusual for fans to have delusions of grandeur.

The fact is this team right now has the NUMBER ONE defense in the NFL as expected. We were all hoping that the Mccoy offense was going to have some magical answer for the 7th round back up in Siemian. He is frustrating, but he is what he is. Nothing more. He is a back up QB in this league imo. A quality back to be sure, and that for any organization is a valuable commodity.

Talk about delusions of grandeur. I also had them with Sloter. I think that was a mistake to get rid of him for Brock long legs Osweiler. I just have a problem with the notion that Osweiler was a known quantity. Meaning, we know what he is, and what he is, is not that good. Sloter on the other hand did show promise. I know it was against backups in preseason, but he also played WITH backups. I saw big league throws.

Anyway, just pissing in the wind with that. No point. Just have a feeling we will be regretting that move. Personally, I would still take a championship caliber DEFENSE over one HIGH PRICED QB that has proven that their salaries makes other aspects of the team suffer. With a defense like this one, they are in every game.

[wayninja]

While I would have felt better with Sloter than Osweiler, you can't fall into that trap of seeing "promise" after a few preseason games. I would only have kept him because he earned his right to be number 3 by his play on the field, whereas Brock has flamed out spectacularly after shitting on the team that groomed him.

But I have no illusions that Sloter would be some magical answer, he likely would not be.

[DT88TheGreat]

Sorry, I may have missed it. Which one of our QB's has an upside?

The one who was drafted in round one, who everybody knew neded a couple year's before he'd be ready to take the field.

[wayninja]

The one who was drafted in round one, who everybody knew neded a couple year's before he'd be ready to take the field.

How many years? What does draft position have to do with it?

You know what, never mind, I'd rather not have everyone whip our their lists of favorite busts or breakouts.

[DT88TheGreat]

As much as I find your posting style insufferable, I have a hard time disagreeing.

Thank you my amigo.

[DT88TheGreat]

How many years? What does draft position have to do with it?

You know what, never mind, I'd rather not have everyone whip our their lists of favorite busts or breakouts.

2 year's, and while it hasn't been two years completely it's been long enough and with Trevor showing hisI true colors we have no legitimate reason to keep sitting lynch, the time is now.

[Broncoknight30]

While I would have felt better with Sloter than Osweiler, you can't fall into that trap of seeing "promise" after a few preseason games. I would only have kept him because he earned his right to be number 3 by his play on the field, whereas Brock has flamed out spectacularly after shitting on the team that groomed him.

But I have no illusions that Sloter would be some magical answer, he likely would not be.

Yes, that is true. The only thing that irks me about it is the fact that we all know what Osweiler is, while Sloter may very well have been the best QB on the roster. I know that is not saying much. It is just the notion of getting rid of an UNKNOWN quantity for something we all know.

[Broncoknight30]

2 year's, and while it hasn't been two years completely it's been long enough and with Trevor showing hisI true colors we have no legitimate reason to keep sitting lynch, the time is now.

Yeah, the problem with that is two years in a row under two different coaching staffs, Siemian beat him out. Legitimately. That is not saying something good about Siemian. That is an indictment on Lynch and his lack of adjusting to the pro game.

He reminds of me some typical Big XII QB that always put up big numbers in college and then it never translates to the NFL. I challenge anyone to tell me the last Big XII QB that made it in the NFL and please dont tell me Bradford.

I know Lynch was not a Big XII guy, but he reminds me of that. He looks lost when he plays. I fear right now this team really has no answers. Lynch, I can almost assure you, is not the answer.

Kelly? When he gets healthy?

[wayninja]

Yes, that is true. The only thing that irks me about it is the fact that we all know what Osweiler is, while Sloter may very well have been the best QB on the roster. I know that is not saying much. It is just the notion of getting rid of an UNKNOWN quantity for something we all know.

Yep. Exactly. We got rid of an intriguing unknown for a well known flameout that likely castrated himself at the altar of elway just to get a spot on the bench.

[Cugel]

Paxton lynch must play the rest of the season, he deserves his shot to develop during real games with real starters, and then him and Kelly can compete for the job if Paxton doesn't start to CLICK around week 12 and forward, but it's important we actually put the first round pick on the field the rest of the way, can't pull him either we have to take the bad and keep rolling so we can see if he's learning and getting better as the season progresses.

Paxton Lynch will very probably never start anywhere in the NFL. That ship has sailed. I think was probably Ray Crockett put it best on the radio closest to catching the real opinion of everyone who is spending a lot of time in Dove Valley: "I think "Paxton looks like he has been beaten down by the NFL and at this point he's just drawing a pay-check." I don't think he really believes in himself any more and nobody else really does either.

He had 2 chances to win the starting job from a 7th round pick, who let's be honest isn't an awesome QB. He failed miserably both times, convincing two different coaching staffs that "he's just not ready to play." Well, when is he supposed to be ready?

I was as big a Paxton supporter as anybody, but that ship has left port a long time ago. And hit the iceberg.

11208

What is going to happen in 2018 given how bad Trevor is playing? They will ship him out, and draft another QB, probably in the first round again, and maybe try and sign a veteran QB.

Maybe Kirk Cousins? Elway might try and make a big play, like with Peyton and possibly Tony Romo.

Hell, the decision not to pursue Romo doesn't look like a brain storm right now.

[wayninja]

2 year's, and while it hasn't been two years completely it's been long enough and with Trevor showing hisI true colors we have no legitimate reason to keep sitting lynch, the time is now.

Again, I agree that a change in the position needs to be evaluated. I don't agree with your assessment that Paxton is "ready". I think you could do just as much harm as good putting him in, but I, personally, am desperate to see competence at QB again, so I'll accept about any change that could be made.

[Cugel]

Wakr me up when he has a few good game's in a row..... Just like last year he has one good game per year, Bengals last year, cowboys this year. Trevor isn't even mediocre he is a poor starting quarterback, whise best suited to be a back up who comes in every once in awhile and helps win a game. Its astonishing that people are still giving him a pass.

In a row? What part of "mediocre" do you not understand? Mediocre means that he will have a good game, then a bad game, then a mediocre game, then a good game, and everybody will get over-excited "he looks like he's finally figuring it out!" Only he isn't. Because then he'll put up 2 stinkers in a row.

Up and down. That's mediocre. Now, if he just starts getting worse and worse, after a couple more games, then fine. Bench him. But, we're not remotely there yet. He just had a really bad game. But, not as bad as Ben Roethlisberger who threw 5 picks a week ago. Sometimes that happens to a LOT better QBs than Trevor Siemian!

[Cugel]

Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
That is true. It is not unusual for fans to have delusions of grandeur.

The fact is this team right now has the NUMBER ONE defense in the NFL as expected. We were all hoping that the Mccoy offense was going to have some magical answer for the 7th round back up in Siemian. He is frustrating, but he is what he is. Nothing more. He is a back up QB in this league imo. A quality back to be sure, and that for any organization is a valuable commodity.

Talk about delusions of grandeur. I also had them with Sloter. I think that was a mistake to get rid of him for Brock long legs Osweiler. I just have a problem with the notion that Osweiler was a known quantity. Meaning, we know what he is, and what he is, is not that good. Sloter on the other hand did show promise. I know it was against backups in preseason, but he also played WITH backups. I saw big league throws.

Anyway, just pissing in the wind with that. No point. Just have a feeling we will be regretting that move. Personally, I would still take a championship caliber DEFENSE over one HIGH PRICED QB that has proven that their salaries makes other aspects of the team suffer. With a defense like this one, they are in every game.

The word out of Dove Valley when reporters sought out the coaches after they cut Sloter was that he looked totally raw in scrimmages against Denver's #1 team. In the pre-season teams are playing totally vanilla defense. You just run your offense exactly as it's drawn up with no adjustments, and the defense just lines up and plays without any attempt to scheme a way to stop you. Nobody wants to show anything.

So, if you have better athletes on offense (D.T. & Sanders) you can look pretty good. Against the #1 defense when they are trying to fool Sloter he got picked off. A lot.

Don't bother arguing with me about this. I don't really have an opinion. Sloter looked good to the casual fan during the pre-season. That's about it. The coaches were not nearly so impressed.

Simple question: Is the casual fan right? Probably not. Sloter was undrafted for a reason. This is the reason:


Draft Projection Projected: Free Agent (not drafted) (http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft/positions)

Bottom Line Sloter is a transfer from Southern Miss who has gone from quarterback to receiver and back to quarterback. He has good size and a lively arm, but only has 320 career passing attempts under his belt. However, he flashed enough raw potential as a senior that he has garnered NFL attention and has an outside shot of sneaking into the final day. Sloter is a project that will almost certainly require a couple of years on a practice squad.

A couple of decent games in the pre-season does not negate all that. You can watch the Vikings and see if Sloter ever turns out to be anything. I don't wish him ill. I liked him, but he's still a long shot.

[DT88TheGreat]

Yeah, the problem with that is two years in a row under two different coaching staffs, Siemian beat him out. Legitimately. That is not saying something good about Siemian. That is an indictment on Lynch and his lack of adjusting to the pro game.

He reminds of me some typical Big XII QB that always put up big numbers in college and then it never translates to the NFL. I challenge anyone to tell me the last Big XII QB that made it in the NFL and please dont tell me Bradford.

I know Lynch was not a Big XII guy, but he reminds me of that. He looks lost when he plays. I fear right now this team really has no answers. Lynch, I can almost assure you, is not the answer.

Kelly? When he gets healthy?

Beat him out in practice.... Where there's no pressure, no hits, no real coverages, Trevor should always look okay in practice, come gameday it's clear he's a liability. Lynch isn't the answer in your opinion bht the facts and proof on the field says Trevor is definitely not the answer. Nobody cares how you look in shorts at practice where Trevor excels. The only reason Trevor won is because he was more consistent in practice than lynch was, now that the coscbes knows it means absolutely nothing lynch will get his turn

[DT88TheGreat]

In a row? What part of "mediocre" do you not understand? Mediocre means that he will have a good game, then a bad game, then a mediocre game, then a good game, and everybody will get over-excited "he looks like he's finally figuring it out!" Only he isn't. Because then he'll put up 2 stinkers in a row.

Up and down. That's mediocre. Now, if he just starts getting worse and worse, after a couple more games, then fine. Bench him. But, we're not remotely there yet. He just had a really bad game. But, not as bad as Ben Roethlisberger who threw 5 picks a week ago. Sometimes that happens to a LOT better QBs than Trevor Siemian!

Trevor hasn't had 3 good game's in a single season ever. So what are you talking about? Trevor is trash.

[chazoe60]

As bad as Trevor is Paxton is infinitely worse. Lynch is like a less enthusiastic version of Tebow.

[Broncoknight30]

Beat him out in practice.... Where there's no pressure, no hits, no real coverages, Trevor should always look okay in practice, come gameday it's clear he's a liability. Lynch isn't the answer in your opinion bht the facts and proof on the field says Trevor is definitely not the answer. Nobody cares how you look in shorts at practice where Trevor excels. The only reason Trevor won is because he was more consistent in practice than lynch was, now that the coscbes knows it means absolutely nothing lynch will get his turn

Hope you are right. Just that I didn't see anything from Lynch in game conditions either.

Nobody did.

You should also be aware that he was given every benefit of every doubt to make it as starter.

We are all hoping you are right....but as cugel said. I think the ship has sailed. Right now my hope is in Kelly. Which, is not saying much. Then again, you never know.

[dogfish]

should've known yash would be all amped up to see trevor play bad. . .

[wayninja]

As bad as Trevor is Paxton is infinitely worse. Lynch is like a less enthusiastic version of Tebow.

Agreed, we should bring Tebow back.

[Broncoknight30]

Agreed, we should bring Tebow back.

I literally think he would be better, provided they stop telling him to change his throwing motion, and play an upbeat spread zone read offense and have kaepernick as back up, since they would need a back up who can run an offense like that.

LOL

[Hawgdriver]

The one who was drafted in round one, who everybody knew neded a couple year's before he'd be ready to take the field.

If everybody knew this, why even bother with a QB competition?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Give us one day to be 14 year old emo girls, Mayor.

I’m still there with ya. I’m looking for the salvageable Appliance in the trash heap, so to speak.

[NightTerror218]

As bad as Trevor is Paxton is infinitely worse. Lynch is like a less enthusiastic version of Tebow.

Siemian is best QB we have but lynch was projected as a multi year project. I still think there is a chance for lynch. I can't write him off with only a handful of games, 1 start?

[DenBronx]

I dont want to go through another 10 years of mediocrity. Win now dammit!

[dogfish]

Agreed, we should bring Tebow back.

i like teebs-- the kid's heart is in the right place. . .


punt protector is far from our biggest worry ATM, though. . .

[DenBronx]

Could Andrew Luck be had at a bargain right now? His stock is low at the moment. Colts are already doing terrible this year and are probably going to pick in the top 5. Why wouldn't they stock pile draft picks and just rebuild?

Don't forget Elway really wanted Luck but he was out of reach. Yeah Luck has had some injuries but nothing he can't recover from. Take Mr. Irsay out for a night on the town and get him realllllly plastered then smuggle a trade for Luck. ;)

[DT88TheGreat]

Siemian is best QB we have but lynch was projected as a multi year project. I still think there is a chance for lynch. I can't write him off with only a handful of games, 1 start?

I have never seen a first round pick being written off after just one start lol, but yet the 7th round pick is given the ( needs more time t develop) crap. Smh.

Everyone with sense knew lynch was a project, raw great talent but would need a couple years to learn and work on his craft and here we are in year one and some change with just one start and the ship has sailed.....

[DT88TheGreat]

Could Andrew Luck be had at a bargain right now? His stock is low at the moment. Colts are already doing terrible this year and are probably going to pick in the top 5. Why wouldn't they stock pile draft picks and just rebuild?

Don't forget Elway really wanted Luck but he was out of reach. Yeah Luck has had some injuries but nothing he can't recover from. Take Mr. Irsay out for a night on the town and get him realllllly plastered then smuggle a trade for Luck. ;)

No, people don't trade young franchise quarterback with great character just because he's injured unless you give up the farm for him and even then it's unlikely.

[Northman]

As much as I find your posting style insufferable, I have a hard time disagreeing.

Lynch sucks but i doubt it would be much different than what we are seeing. I agree, give Lynch the start and then when he plummets we can go and draft a new one to start over with.

[Northman]

As bad as Trevor is Paxton is infinitely worse. Lynch is like a less enthusiastic version of Tebow.

Lynch played with the starters in preseason. He ended up pooping his pants and shitting all over himself playing against a vanilla defense. He had a chance to beat out Siemian for the starting job this year, but he couldnt even beat him in PRACTICE of all things. If you cant even beat a guy out in practice what makes you think he can be better playing an actual game? :lol:

[Northman]

should've known yash would be all amped up to see trevor play bad. . .

Notice how he hasnt been around while Denver was winning? lol

[Shazam!]

Could Andrew Luck be had at a bargain right now? His stock is low at the moment. Colts are already doing terrible this year and are probably going to pick in the top 5. Why wouldn't they stock pile draft picks and just rebuild?

Don't forget Elway really wanted Luck but he was out of reach. Yeah Luck has had some injuries but nothing he can't recover from. Take Mr. Irsay out for a night on the town and get him realllllly plastered then smuggle a trade for Luck. ;)

I agree. Luck could be traded IF he doesnt play the Season amd Indy had a Top 10 pick again.

Could lightning strike twice with Denver and Indy QBs?

[Shazam!]

Elway should deal Lynch to GB who is desperate for a QB now and push Kelly up.

[chazoe60]

I agree. Luck could be traded IF he doesnt play the Season amd Indy had a Top 10 pick again.

Could lightning strike twice with Denver and Indy QBs?

Twice? More like thrice.

[Freyaka]

should've known yash would be all amped up to see trevor play bad. . .

It means he finally gets to come out of hiding and gloat about it.

[Freyaka]

I dont want to go through another 10 years of mediocrity. Win now dammit!

We may not have a way around that, as much as it sucks to admit it. Finding a QB isn't an overnight thing and we need a QB to get past this slump we've fallen into the last two years. Unless we get lucky and find the right QB in the next draft, it could be a revolving door of QB's for a few years.

[wayninja]

i like teebs-- the kid's heart is in the right place. . .


punt protector is far from our biggest worry ATM, though. . .

You're right, Brock and Lynch got this shit.

[Broncoknight30]

You're right, Brock and Lynch got this shit.

Here is the gloomy reality of the Broncos situation. Kelly, might very well be the guy that we need to hoping for. It is not Siemian, and it is not the giraffes. Ok? Osweiler is a bust and there is no sense talking about him, so we wont.

Trying to land another "Peyton Manning" in the form of overrated over priced injury prone Andrew Luck could happen. I could actually see it happening. However, let us consider a few things about that. There is more than one reason why it is so hard to put "a team around" these franchise QBs. In Luck's case it has a lot to do with the nearly 30mill per year.

Look at some of the QBs getting that type of money and see what happens AFTER they get those large contracts. Brees is paid 30 mill per year (something like that) and people wonder why their defense every year is horrible. When is the last time they have been to the play offs, let alone win it? Anyone know?

Flacco broke the bank of the Ravens after they won the SB and they have been really really ordinary since. They immediately had to get rid of 7 players to accommodate that contract.

Stafford was just paid, so we will be seeing how that will effect that franchise. Being as how they are always average to bad during the Stafford era, not sure it is going to be all that great.

Look at what happened with the Seahawks AFTER they paid Russell Wilson (along with others) AFTER their back to back SB appearances. All of a sudden they could not sign key players and they cannot field an OL to save their life.

Derek Carr was just paid big money and I am predicting the Raiders will be suffering for that in the near future. As it is right now, they are not living up to what they were supposed to be.

So, the question is would we as fans rather a championship caliber defense that proved can win it, or would we rather have an over priced unproven overrated QB that will make that defense diminish?

Would we rather hope for Chad Kelly? I am starting a Chad Kelly bandwagon. Cause quite frankly, I would take a championship defense over an over priced, overrated QB.

[weazel]

I still think Lynch's mom is doing a bang up job in this thread.

[Hawgdriver]

I still think Lynch's mom is doing a bang up job in this thread.

Crushing it, really. By it I mean the joy.

Wait, there is no joy here.

idk

[Freyaka]

Crushing it, really. By it I mean the joy.

Wait, there is no joy here.

idk

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/615/060/058.jpg

[EastCoastBronco]

He looked so good against Dallas.
Where has that QB gone?

[Freyaka]

He looked so good against Dallas.
Where has that QB gone?

He is still here, he just pisses down his leg when the pass rush gets to him...And the pass rush always gets to him because our o-line sucks. But even on those occasions that he's got time, he basically jumps at shadows and pisses himself.

He's panicked and has zero confidence. Unless by some miracle he gets his confidence back and gets past his fear of getting hit, he's basically just going to continue being the crappy specimen we've all seen for the last 3 weeks.

[Cugel]

What makes you think that Elway can draft a franchise QB?

Well, if he stops looking for giraffes that might help. The two we've got are rather incapable:

11209
The one on the left, who looks like Paxton, appears to have fallen down and he can't get up. Maybe they should get him a med-alert bracelet.

[Cugel]

He is still here, he just pisses down his leg when the pass rush gets to him...And the pass rush always gets to him because our o-line sucks. But even on those occasions that he's got time, he basically jumps at shadows and pisses himself.

He's panicked and has zero confidence. Unless by some miracle he gets his confidence back and gets past his fear of getting hit, he's basically just going to continue being the crappy specimen we've all seen for the last 3 weeks.

This AM I heard a rather shocking stat about Trevor:

When he's pressured, and he's under pressure about 1/3 of the time, and that will go up as defensive coordinators see how terrible he plays under pressure, his QBR is about 40. When he's NOT pressured, it's around 104.

If Watson misses any appreciable period it's lights out for the offense because they decided that Donald Stephenson can't do the job, and put in RG Billy Turner at RT. He gave up a pressure and a sack and appears to have broken his wrist. So, that's out.

The starting RT is not on this roster, and there appears to be no help coming via FA. They are going to suck all year on the right side of the OL. And Trevor is going to continue to be the most blitzed QB in football. They're going to have to deal with it. I have no idea how that happens. It's looking like they should have drafted a RT as well as a LT, because while the LT was the area of biggest concern entering into the season, RT is now the problem.

[Cugel]

Lynch sucks but i doubt it would be much different than what we are seeing. I agree, give Lynch the start and then when he plummets we can go and draft a new one to start over with.

What's the point of starting him if you KNOW he's going to plummet? And we DO know he's going to plummet. They are going to stick with Trevor all year unless the team is eliminated from competition.

Trevor at least has a chance to turn it around. He's smart. Paxton apparently isn't. And if they have to go to a different QB it will probably be Osweiler, not Paxton. Paxton "isn't ready." He wasn't ready in the pre-season and he isn't ready now. They see him sucking in practice and have zero incentive to put him into games.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Well, if he stops looking for giraffes that might help. The two we've got are rather incapable:

11209
The one on the left, who looks like Paxton, appears to have fallen down and he can't get up. Maybe they should get him a med-alert bracelet.

I'm not sure with his fixation on tall, strong armed QB's. I would want smart, accurate, leader, etc. Being big and strong definitely helps in the longevity question, but I wouldn't have thrown either Watson or Wilson off the draft chart because they weren't 6'5"+

[Shazam!]

I also did not like Coach Joseph's demeanor at the post game presser or Monday's. Way too lackadaisical after such a loss.

[Hawgdriver]

He looked so good against Dallas.
Where has that QB gone?

Run/pass play selection and effectiveness of the run are factors, some of it is just inexplicable and truly worrisome, his leash has to be getting shorter when he poops hissef like that.

[Hawgdriver]

I also did not like Coach Joseph's demeanor at the post game presser or Monday's. Way too lackadaisical after such a loss.

Good coaches don't get too high with the highs or low with the lows.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

He is still here, he just pisses down his leg when the pass rush gets to him...And the pass rush always gets to him because our o-line sucks. But even on those occasions that he's got time, he basically jumps at shadows and pisses himself.

He's panicked and has zero confidence. Unless by some miracle he gets his confidence back and gets past his fear of getting hit, he's basically just going to continue being the crappy specimen we've all seen for the last 3 weeks.

I don’t know man. He holds the ball for a LONG time. I don’t know if they don’t like to dial up short stuff or what....

[Shazam!]

I also did not like Coach Joseph's demeanor at the post game presser or Monday's. Way too lackadaisical after such a loss.

Good coaches don't get too high with the highs or low with the lows.

Even Mike Shanahan, the egomaniac, always took responsibility for losses like this. I dont like his seeming so lax.

[Dreadnought]

I don’t know man. He holds the ball for a LONG time. I don’t know if they don’t like to dial up short stuff or what....

The Giants were jamming guys on the LOS, and the receivers weren't beating it

[DT88TheGreat]

Good coaches don't get too high with the highs or low with the lows.

I guess he wanted VJ to lose his mind in front of the media and fans, which would be very weak but of course somebody here is calling for such actions.

Vance has the perfect demeanor and im sure he let the team know behind closed doors how much he was disappointed in the performance.

[wayninja]

Vance has the perfect demeanor and im sure he let the team know behind closed doors how much he was disappointed in the performance.

Undermined slightly by the soothing, rich timbre of his voice.

Like having Billy Dee Williams for a head coach.

[BroncoWave]

Elway should deal Lynch to GB who is desperate for a QB now and push Kelly up.

I'm sure green Bay's scouting department can look at Lynch's tape and see the same garbage we see and pass. Elway would be a wizard if he could trade him for good value. I think the Packers are smarter than that unfortunately.

[Dreadnought]

Undermined slightly by the soothing, rich timbre of his voice.

Like having Billy Dee Williams for a head coach.


Hey, maybe Coach Joseph can haul his Assistants into Mr. Elway's office so they can collectively admit their total inadequacy and grovel appropriately? That was the Josh McDaniels approach after all

[wayninja]

Hey, maybe Coach Joseph can haul his Assistants into Mr. Elway's office so they can collectively admit their total inadequacy and grovel appropriately? That was the Josh McDaniels approach after all

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh9bVdtCYAA2MO9.jpg:large

Sorry boss-man, this one's totally on me, baby.

[Shazam!]

Good coaches don't get too high with the highs or low with the lows.

I guess he wanted VJ to lose his mind in front of the media and fans, which would be very weak but of course somebody here is calling for such actions.

Vance has the perfect demeanor and im sure he let the team know behind closed doors how much he was disappointed in the performance.

He didn't express disappointment. "Its a hard league" is NOT something that is said as an excuse in a pathetic loss as a leader of men. Sorry.

I am not liking his stance as an apparent players coach. Seems way too lax. Watch the pressers.

[Cugel]

He didn't express disappointment. "Its a hard league" is NOT something that is said as an excuse in a pathetic loss as a leader of men. Sorry.

I am not liking his stance as an apparent players coach. Seems way too lax. Watch the pressers.

The problem is that the Broncos are playing flat. That is on the head coach. Losing because you're not as talented is one thing, losing without any apparent effort is another.

[Broncoknight30]

Lol

[DT88TheGreat]

The problem is that the Broncos are playing flat. That is on the head coach. Losing because you're not as talented is one thing, losing without any apparent effort is another.

Lmao this guy wants to blame everyone but who really sucks, and that is Trevor sorry ass. This guy cannot make plays, dude has all the talent around him and he cannot muster a single score yet again. You are delusional cugel and your blame for everyone but tevirwis sickening.

[Traveler]

We just got shut out by the Sparklers! There better be some type of trade this week for a legitimate RT.

[spikerman]

We just got shut out by the Sparklers! There better be some type of trade this week for a legitimate RT.
Preferably one who can throw the ball and has some type of pocket awareness.

[GEM]

Is a right tackle really going to make a difference? I mean yea, we need one, but a qb is where it starts and ends. Peyton Manning overcame an oline worse than this one.

Even with a better rt, we're still going to suck on offense.

[VonDoom]

Is a right tackle really going to make a difference? I mean yea, we need one, but a qb is where it starts and ends. Peyton Manning overcame an oline worse than this one.

Even with a better rt, we're still going to suck on offense.

I was into the idea of trading for a RT a recently as this week but I wouldn't do it now. This team is falling apart. Save the draft pick you would have traded and make it count next year

[wayninja]

Is a right tackle really going to make a difference? I mean yea, we need one, but a qb is where it starts and ends. Peyton Manning overcame an oline worse than this one.

Even with a better rt, we're still going to suck on offense.

What can you say? The Oline has just regressed.

[GEM]

What can you say? The Oline has just regressed.

So has the qb. :whistle:

[Cugel]

Is a right tackle really going to make a difference? I mean yea, we need one, but a qb is where it starts and ends. Peyton Manning overcame an oline worse than this one.

Even with a better rt, we're still going to suck on offense.

Peyton is a special case. He was a HOF QB with the quickest release in football. When Fox was head coach Peyton used to insist upon repeating blitz pick-up drills over and over until he was satisfied. Fox was standing on the sidelines next to a reporter and turned to him and said "this is a waste of time. We're the least blitzed team in football because Peyton always makes them pay. But, we run this drill because Peyton wants to."

Only, Trevor is the opposite. He's the MOST blitzed QB in football because defenses have learned to just put 8 in the box to stuff the run, and force Trevor to throw it 40-50 times and blitz the hell out of him and get pressure in his face. Obviously that works great. The Broncos offense has scored 16, 10 and zero points in the last 3 games. Clearly they have figured out that if you stuff the Broncos running game by putting 8 or 9 defenders in the box, they can't pass the ball well enough to make you pay. Peyton would always make them pay until he had a torn tendon in his foot the last year and couldnt push off his plant leg at all.

That's the difference.

So, to answer your question: "Hell yes! Having a stud RT would be a HUGE step up for this offense." For one thing they could give max protection to Bolles, which they couldn't do this game because they had to help out Allen Barbre at RT as much as possible because he was getting beat so quickly.

[Cugel]

I was into the idea of trading for a RT a recently as this week but I wouldn't do it now. This team is falling apart. Save the draft pick you would have traded and make it count next year

Sadly, I have to agree. This team looks like a 6-10 team at best. Maybe worse. Well, there's ONE silver lining in this weekly tunnel of shame - and that is the team is likely to get a top 10 draft pick they can use on a QB next season. Plus, when you draft in the top 10 you get top 10 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds too. So they can hope to get three solid starters including a franchise QB if they are lucky in the draft next year. By then they will probably have to replace Talib, DT and Sanders because you can't keep such high priced veterans on a rebuilding team.

I'm old enough to remember the rebuilding teams under Mike Shanahan in the early 2000s. This looks like those teams, except instead of a SB winning coach, they have a rookie head coach who is obviously out of his depth. So, likely they will win maybe 6 or 7 games. ANd it could be less. Let's be honest.

The defense could just give up at some point. They stuffed the Chargers after the first turnover on 4 downs inside the 1 yard line. Just phenomenal defense, and yet it made absolutely no difference whatever. How long can we expect the defense to continue to make such intense efforts when the offense can't tie their own shoes?

[Traveler]

I was into the idea of trading for a RT a recently as this week but I wouldn't do it now. This team is falling apart. Save the draft pick you would have traded and make it count next year

What's the use in keeping the pick? As has been stated in this thread several times, Elway's track record when using picks on offense is atrocious. He's even struck out at the RT position two years straight (Stephenson & Watson). What makes you believe he will end this trend?

[VonDoom]

What's the use in keeping the pick? As has been stated in this thread several times, Elway's track record when using picks on offense is atrocious. He's even struck out at the RT position two years straight (Stephenson & Watson). What makes you believe he will end this trend?

Well, I didn't say he HAD to use that pick on a tackle, just that trading a pick away in a season in which we'll be mediocre or worse seems like a poor idea. We could use that pick as part of a trade up for a top QB, for all I know.

Plus, if we don't trust that Elway can draft OL at some point, then we should just give up hope going forward. Bolles seems pretty good so far, so we could always go OL in the first again and hope for the best, or at least spend in FA at the top of the market. Lots of options. Getting a vet in here this year just seems like a waste, though.

[Cugel]

Lmao this guy wants to blame everyone but who really sucks, and that is Trevor sorry ass. This guy cannot make plays, dude has all the talent around him and he cannot muster a single score yet again. You are delusional cugel and your blame for everyone but tevirwis sickening.

And you are an unreformed Tebowite, so who's really delusional? That takes some friggin' serious hypocrisy to accuse ME of being delusional! :coffee: Lol!

Actually, I was a Paxton fan, who hoped we had something in Paxton, not a Trevor fan. I think exactly what I always thought of Trevor. He's the next Kyle Orton. Inadequate. That's what mediocre means btw.

You get a couple of good games, like against Dallas, and a bunch of stinkers like against the Giants and Chargers.

If he had a mediocre, not horrible OL, he'd be adequate.

There are two Trevors:

1. The guy who has over 100 passer rating when he's not under pressure, or only moderate pressure.
2. The guy who sucks the hairy meatball when he's got a defender in his face. Which he does all the time.

Well, this is a league where you can expect pressure. So, is he good enough to be the Broncos franchise QB? Hell no. Can he play in this league? Probably, in the same way that Orton did - i.e. if you don't ask too much of him.

Elway & VJ thought this team was WAY better than it is, and so they thought they could put enough veterans like Menelik Watson, DT and Sanders around Trevor and he'd be fine. Well, he's not.

I got into intense fights on these boards reminding people that Trevor was a7th rounder and you can't really expect 7th round QBs to develop into star QBs in this league. It hasn't happened that a 7th rounder or undrafted QB has been really good since Kurt Warner and he was drafted 18 years ago!

[Cugel]

What's the use in keeping the pick? As has been stated in this thread several times, Elway's track record when using picks on offense is atrocious. He's even struck out at the RT position two years straight (Stephenson & Watson). What makes you believe he will end this trend?

If you believe that then there's absolutely no hope for the future at all, and you might as well soak your head in a bucket of water. Elway struck out at the RT position, because he tried to get a player who is adequate for not too much money. Well, it was the worst class for Ts in both FA and the draft in 20 years according to NFL draft experts, so he failed.

It says a lot about how terrible the OL is when you consider that if they still had Russell Okung or Michael Schofield on this roster they'd be a lot better off. The Chargers OL didn't totally suck last night with those two Broncos cast-offs starting for them!

So, I'm thinking that coaching has something to do with the problem.

[wayninja]

That reminds me... where is joel?

[NightTerror218]

That reminds me... where is joel?

He is still writing up his response about the horrible OL

[Freyaka]

He is still writing up his response about the horrible OL

Some say he still continues to write to this day, some say he always will...

[Cugel]

Some say he still continues to write to this day, some say he always will...

Don't even say that! There is just NO way I can be the longest winded poster on these boards with that dude around!

[Freyaka]

Don't even say that! There is just NO way I can be the longest winded poster on these boards with that dude around!

The mantle has passed, all hail the cugel.

[weazel]

I think North is overreacting again

[Cugel]

I think North is overreacting again

You can usually tell when he's really "over-reacting" because he posts something that looks like this:


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[Simple Jaded]

It seems to me that Siemian is at his best when he runs play action. He seems to be poised and he has shown ability to make the throws. The problem is the running game is inconsistent and therefore ineffective.

When Siemian is not running play action and just doing straight pass plays, he is less than ordinary.

I believe he is NOT the answer. I do think he is a competent back up QB in this league and that is no small thing. That is a valuable commodity for any team. The problem as I see it in this hard cap league is when a QB is paid top dollar, all of a sudden that team tends to suffer.

We would all love to have Andrew Luck. Well, he comes with a steep price. People wonder why the Colts cannot field a team around him. Not all that hard to figure out why. When ONE player (even a franchise QB) takes up that much money, it becomes really problematic.

Look at the highest paid QBs in the league and look what typically happens to those franchises AFTER they pay their QBs. The Ravens, after their SB paid Flacco top dollar. They had to get rid of 7 players the next year to accommodate that contract. They have been woefully inconsistent as a franchise since.

In case some are wondering, Tom Brady is the 16th highest paid QB in the NFL. We can argue he is the best QB and he does not break the bank of the Pats. Are they pulling a cheatriots trick with that? Probably, but it has not been addressed at all by the league. Which means as of now that is legit.

This team over the last 3 games has averaged 14 points per game. Does not help that Mcmanus all of sudden cannot hit FGs.

I quoted this post to ask if y’all have noticed that Denver probably leads the league in play action fakes to RB’s that aren’t there?

I bet it works to perfection vs Todd Davis in practice.

[Simple Jaded]

Don't even say that! There is just NO way I can be the longest winded poster on these boards with that dude around!

My favorite is when you and Joel start playing grabass, two posts take up an entire page.

[wayninja]

Brevity is a lost art.

[Cugel]

Brevity is a lost art.

Brevity is only valued by the rest of you because you lack reading comprehension skills! Wait, . . . . what was I about to say? Hmmmn. Something witty no doubt. And filled with ironic snark! Consider your self duly trounced by my ironic wit!

[Cugel]

I quoted this post to ask if y’all have noticed that Denver probably leads the league in play action fakes to RB’s that aren’t there?

I bet it works to perfection vs Todd Davis in practice.

The playaction only works if they are worried the Broncos might run the ball. But, they have a zone defense with 8 or 9 in the box to stop the run and dare Trevor to beat them throwing the ball.

The Broncos cannot win with Trevor behind this OL throwing the ball 40 or 50 times a game. He probably averages 2 picks every 50 pass attempts. Teams know this and are forcing Denver to pass as much as possible.

[wayninja]

Brevity is only valued by the rest of you because you lack reading comprehension skills! Wait, . . . . what was I about to say? Hmmmn. Something witty no doubt. And filled with ironic snark! Consider your self duly trounced by my ironic wit!

tl;dr

[Shazam!]

I expected the abroncos to be awful when Manning retired, but 2016 led me to believe there was hope. 2016 seems like an illusion at 9-7. This is what was supposed to be 2016, with the offense collapsing without Manning.

[EastCoastBronco]

I expected the abroncos to be awful when Manning retired, but 2016 led me to believe there was hope. 2016 seems like an illusion at 9-7. This is what was supposed to be 2016, with the offense collapsing without Manning.

Chickens are dope...