Offensive Line.

[CrazyHorse]

This is still the biggest issue from last year. It's definitely improved because they can at least run the ball. Pass protection without play action is still pretty poor, particularly from the right tackle position. Watson appears to have been a bad signing. I'd almost rather have Stephenson back but I don't think it would make much of a difference. The rest of the line is decent but still this team's achilles heel. On a positive note besides maybe depth at receiver and a stud tight end it's really this team's only glaring weakness.

[Magnificent Seven]

Cut or Bench RT Watson. Broncos will be fine without him.

[Shazam!]

Broncos OLine went from one of the worst in the League to mediocre. It is an improvement.

[Cugel]

This is still the biggest issue from last year. It's definitely improved because they can at least run the ball. Pass protection without play action is still pretty poor, particularly from the right tackle position. Watson appears to have been a bad signing. I'd almost rather have Stephenson back but I don't think it would make much of a difference. The rest of the line is decent but still this team's achilles heel. On a positive note besides maybe depth at receiver and a stud tight end it's really this team's only glaring weakness.

Almost. Stephenson was the guy they WANTED to play RT, only he sucked his way out of a job. He's supposedly the "swing tackle" but in Bolles' absence it was Allen Barbre who filled in, not Stephenson.

It still looks like Stephenson signed with the Broncos and got the big contract, then decided to retire. He just didn't tell anybody.

[Cugel]

Cut or Bench RT Watson. Broncos will be fine without him.

How? Who is the starting RT? Stephenson? Remember WHY the Broncos signed Watson? That was because Stephenson sucked last year. He hasn't improved.

[Poet]

The line is better than it was last year. It's not where we want it to be, but at least they've shown some ability to run block, too.

[tripp]

I know watching the game on TV is very different from seeing it in person, but was it just me or did it seem like the run game was non existent, Trevor was forcing throws and didn't have a lot of time to throw them either

[BroncoJoe]

I know watching the game on TV is very different from seeing it in person, but was it just me or did it seem like the run game was non existent, Trevor was forcing throws and didn't have a lot of time to throw them either

I think that was the game plan. Trevor threw way too much, IMO.

23 rushes for 111 yards and a TD. 4.8 YPC.

Trevor threw it 40 times. I think I read a stat somewhere that we're undefeated if he throws less than 33 times (or something close).

[tripp]

I think that was the game plan. Trevor threw way too much, IMO.

23 rushes for 111 yards and a TD. 4.8 YPC.

Trevor threw it 40 times. I think I read a stat somewhere that we're undefeated if he throws less than 33 times (or something close).

That 1st interception in our half was so bad.. that's a throw that you make in the play ground playing amongst friends.

It didn't seem like we had much answer for Tyrod Taylor which I found shocking considering Dallas' O is far better than the Bills. Kinda shocked all around about that performance. It was disgustingly hot out, but I'm not sure if that's a good enough excuse

[BigDaddyBronco]

They always seem to play like shit when it is an 11 am game and they are in the EST zone. Usually it gets exposed if they are in Florida in September.

[Joel]

I think that was the game plan. Trevor threw way too much, IMO.

23 rushes for 111 yards and a TD. 4.8 YPC.

Trevor threw it 40 times. I think I read a stat somewhere that we're undefeated if he throws less than 33 times (or something close).
Wow, that almost sounds like football. :tongue:

Watson's been bad in protection, but Garcia's worse against lesser pass rushers; if I never see him out there again it'll be too soon. I mean, maybe as a sixth lineman in a goal line jumbo set, but as a starter? No way; ANY kind of lateral movement at all leaves him chasing his tail, every single time. A blocking sled would be as effective.

LT Bolles
LG Leary
C Paradis
RG Watson/McGovern (whichever's better)
RT Barbre

MAKE THIS HAPPEN, COACH! You'll have McGovern to reliably if unspectacularly cover ANY interior injury, and Watson and/or Stephenson to cover injured OTs in a pinch. And you won't have :censored:ing Max Garcia at all.

[Joel]

Seriously, it shouldn't be POSSIBLE to lose, let alone by TWO SCORES, when THIS happens:
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nfl/500/den.png&h=100&w=100Denver Rushing



CAR
YDS
AVG
TD
LONG


Jamaal Charles (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/11307/jamaal-charles)
9
56
6.2
1
19


C.J. Anderson (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/16040/cj-anderson)
8
36
4.5
0
32


Trevor Siemian (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2511109/trevor-siemian)
3
12
4.0
0
7


Isaiah McKenzie (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3128724/isaiah-mckenzie)
1
4
4.0
0
4


Andy Janovich (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2974317/andy-janovich)
1
2
2.0
0
2


De'Angelo Henderson (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2968226/deangelo-henderson)
1
1
1.0
0
1


TEAM
23
111
4.8
1
32



http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nfl/500/buf.png&h=100&w=100Buffalo Rushing



CAR
YDS
AVG
TD
LONG


Mike Tolbert (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/11658/mike-tolbert)
11
41
3.7
0
10


LeSean McCoy (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/12514/lesean-mccoy)
14
21
1.5
0
7


Tyrod Taylor (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/14163/tyrod-taylor)
8
13
1.6
0
7


TEAM
33
75
2.3
0
10



Sure, the team that won also ran most—but it's not like they were chewing clock the whole second half to salt away a big lead: We had the games FIRST lead—AND its third, fourth and fifth. In other words, except for a bit more than a MINUTE after Buffalos freak tip drill TD, we were in control til the middle of the 3rd qtr. Then the D gave up a long TD drive, Siemian started trying to do too much with too little, and it all imploded on itself.

[Freyaka]

I know watching the game on TV is very different from seeing it in person, but was it just me or did it seem like the run game was non existent, Trevor was forcing throws and didn't have a lot of time to throw them either

Trevor's issue yesterday is if it wasn't Manny Sanders, he didn't throw it. He was staring down manny and forcing throws his way even when there were other open options.

[Freyaka]

That 1st interception in our half was so bad.. that's a throw that you make in the play ground playing amongst friends.

It didn't seem like we had much answer for Tyrod Taylor which I found shocking considering Dallas' O is far better than the Bills. Kinda shocked all around about that performance. It was disgustingly hot out, but I'm not sure if that's a good enough excuse

I literally told my wife before the play even snapped "crap...this is going to be an interception" It was so freaking obvious that we were about to turn the ball over, you could just feel it.

[Joel]

Trevor's issue yesterday is if it wasn't Manny Sanders, he didn't throw it. He was staring down manny and forcing throws his way even when there were other open options.
This is sadly true. I felt and still do that he's getting far too much of the blame for this loss because 1) he's the QB and 2) roughly half the fans have been wishing he WEREN'T since this time last year. That said, he zoned in on Sanders way too much; enough that the commentators felt it worth, well, COMMENTING when DT got his first target midway through the 2nd qtr.

One of many differences between the pros and amateurs is that amateurs can get away with playing pitch and catch exclusively with their wubby all day in all but a few games each year, but pro secondaries make their living taking away every QBs wubby. That's why we've so desperately and long needed Fowler, Latimer, Sunshine or SOMEONE to step up as the #3 WR, and it's great that it looks Fowler's doing so—but his achievements are wasted if they just mean every pass goes to Sanders or Fowler instead of DT or Sanders.

I don't think that's about lacking time to go through progressions either, because, much as I love him, no one can tell me we have lots of plays where Fowler's the primary receiver and DT's just a checkdown. Likewise, as others have noted, our TEs were largely silent (or muzzled) yesterday. Specifically, Green had 3 catches and Derby just one, a combined total only one more than CJ and Charles combined.

[Joel]

All that said: Still doesn't explain why we gained 4.8 yd/rush in a tight game we led most of the way yet STILL THREW TWICE AS MUCH AS WE RAN! This is why everyone was relieved we got Joseph instead of the NFC Champions' OC, remember?

[WARHORSE]

It was game 3.

Siemian is still learning.

The oline still gelling.

Relax.




If Trevor learned some convictions on certain throws from the game, as in passes you can and cannot make....then its worth it.

The fake punt should have been one they knew would work before trying it. Vons penalty/non penalty was huge.



I think the loss makes us better.

[tripp]

I literally told my wife before the play even snapped "crap...this is going to be an interception" It was so freaking obvious that we were about to turn the ball over, you could just feel it.

I was sitting in the end zone and had a perfect view of the INT, it was just.. so.. bad. But you're right, it felt like we were trying too hard to make something work and that happened. I also had the same feeling that EVENTUALLY Buffalo will turn the ball over, which surprisingly wasn't the case. I watch so many Bills games when the Broncos aren't playing and they play like SH!T the majority of the time, I haven't seen them play this good in a long time. Go figure

[WARHORSE]

Also, I thought the no fly zone played a little lax......maybe thought this game was a gimme?

Dline? STUDLY.

[Magnificent Seven]

How? Who is the starting RT? Stephenson? Remember WHY the Broncos signed Watson? That was because Stephenson sucked last year. He hasn't improved.

Move Allen Barbre to RT. He played RT before.

[Joel]

Move Allen Barbre to RT. He played RT before.
This is a no brainer, as is putting either McGovern or Watson at whichever G spot Garcia's pretending to play (honestly not sure anymore; I saw both him and Barbre at LG, but was never in danger of mistaking either for the other.)

[LawDog]

I was sitting in the end zone and had a perfect view of the INT, it was just.. so.. bad. But you're right, it felt like we were trying too hard to make something work and that happened. I also had the same feeling that EVENTUALLY Buffalo will turn the ball over, which surprisingly wasn't the case. I watch so many Bills games when the Broncos aren't playing and they play like SH!T the majority of the time, I haven't seen them play this good in a long time. Go figure

Go watch the replay, it's on the game summary on nfl dot com. When Siemian scrambles back to the left and then throws Fowler is to the inside (middle of field) and in front of both defenders but makes the decision to go outside under the defenders. Trevor throws the ball to the open area in the middle and by the time Fowler sees it he slips/stumbles and can't make it back. Sanders was also crossing the middle just a step ahead of his coverage but ended up about 5 yards deeper than the throw. Siemian said in his post game that he went in and Bennie went out and that's exactly what happened. At the line of scrimmage there is a defender advancing and I really don't think Trevor had a lane to throw outside so his only choice was to go to the middle, or to dump it to CJ on the short left but that would have left third and 15 plus. I can't really fault Trevor for taking the chance, and if Fowler goes inside it would have been third and short or 1st and 10, just didn't work out.

[Timmy!]

They always seem to play like shit when it is an 11 am game and they are in the EST zone. Usually it gets exposed if they are in Florida in September.

11am games always suck.

[topscribe]

Cut or Bench RT Watson. Broncos will be fine without him.
So you're saying if they remove Watson and just leave the position vacant there wouldn't be much of a difference?

Mmmm . . . might be worth a try . . .

[Poet]

:lol:

[Freyaka]

So you're saying if they remove Watson and just leave the position vacant there wouldn't be much of a difference?

Mmmm . . . might be worth a try . . .

You know what the difference between a toddler and Watson is? A toddler is capable of throwing a block.

[topscribe]

You know what the difference between a toddler and Watson is? A toddler is capable of throwing a block.
:laugh:

[nevcraw]

the OL is very good at run blocking. Watson and leary are killing it on their side, and so far this season it looks like this O will need to be a run first and often to soften up the pass. If TS doesn't throw stupid INT's and put the D in bad spots we will continue to win.

[Shazam!]

the OL is very good at run blocking. Watson and leary are killing it on their side, and so far this season it looks like this O will need to be a run first and often to soften up the pass. If TS doesn't throw stupid INT's and put the D in bad spots we will continue to win.

I don't know about 'very good' but they are clearly at least somewhat improved. Especially I believe in the middle at G C G but the one T position is horrendous and a constant weakness. With another Draft I am expecting the issue to be resolved by next year.

Unfortunately by that time, another unit of the team will be awful lol

[Cugel]

I was sitting in the end zone and had a perfect view of the INT, it was just.. so.. bad. But you're right, it felt like we were trying too hard to make something work and that happened. I also had the same feeling that EVENTUALLY Buffalo will turn the ball over, which surprisingly wasn't the case. I watch so many Bills games when the Broncos aren't playing and they play like SH!T the majority of the time, I haven't seen them play this good in a long time. Go figure

What exactly happened with Buffalo? They are just this rotten team that is a little better than the Jets, and that's about it. This team should be maybe 7-9 at best. But, they looked like they would compete for the division with the Patriots if they continued to play like that against good teams!

But, of course, we all know they will NOT continue to play like that. They are the Bills. They haven't played consistently good football in 25 years. This is not an accident. This is the sign of a bad franchise, whose owner sucks. No other answer. They've changed coaches, GMs and players over and over during that period, and still no whiff of the Super Bowl.

[Jsteve01]

we had this conversation a lot when Franklin was still in town, but Watson really looks like an athletic guard to me more so than a right tackle. Man if we could get just average play out of the right tackle this line would be pretty solid.

[Cugel]

we had this conversation a lot when Franklin was still in town, but Watson really looks like an athletic guard to me more so than a right tackle. Man if we could get just average play out of the right tackle this line would be pretty solid.

Bolles isn't solid yet. Not in pass-protections. He is clearly a future solid starter. We won't have to worry about LT next season if he continues to develop as he is. But, right now? He's a rookie and he is going to have bad days. Hopefully not against Kalil Mack on Sunday. Because they are going to rotate him against both Denver's OTs.

Mack is going to try his luck against both guys and see who he can beat the easiest. Probably Watson, but could be both of them.


Brandon Stokely: "We can't let Kalil Mack ruin our game on Sunday."

Q: "A lot of stopping Kalil Mack is going to depend on what Menelik Watson can bring to the table. And I don't know if we have to just accept that this is how it is going to be moving forward or whether Menelik can take steps to improve as the season progresses."

Stokely: "You want honesty?"

Q: "It is Noon to 3".

Stokely: "Hashtag truth. Look. It's not gonna happen. He is what he is. I watched film on him after the Broncos signed him. I was sceptical then. I'm still sceptical. I don't think it's gonna change. I've been holding out hope that it might change, but he is what he is. In run blocking, a good player, in pass protection a liability. That's just honesty. That's just the truth about the matter. It's not going to get much better. You have to give the guy help whenever possible. And this is just one of those games where you have to go out of your way to make sure he has help 99.9% of the time when Trevor is dropping back to pass."

That severely limits what your offense can do though. They need to have a TE or extra blocker constantly making sure that Watson's man doesn't absolutely destroy the game plan and possibly break Trevor Siemian in half and throw his legs into the South Stands. Because our season would take a sudden and unfortunate turn if that were to happen.

But, there will be two fewer players in the passing lanes because of the need to have 4 OL to block 2 Raiders defenders (Mack and Bruce Irvin).

[Shazam!]

I am of the belief that if Trevor can do more Peyton imitations and get rid of it quick the Rayduhs Secondary is going to get cut to ribbons tomorrow. They looked HORRIBLE vs Washington last week.

[Cugel]

The key is going to be whether the Broncos can shut down that Raiders offense, the way they did the Cowboys, or whether they will get exposed, as they were against the Bills.

[Shazam!]

The key is going to be whether the Broncos can shut down that Raiders offense, the way they did the Cowboys, or whether they will get exposed, as they were against the Bills.

Too much pressure on the Defense to bail them out continually will backfire eventually. They have got to get more steady production and stay on the Field and sustain drives. I'm not putting it all on Trev but they have to protect him.

[gregbroncs]

I hate games played 2 time zones away and kick off in the morning. I'd love to see a stat showing the win % of how teams from the West go east and play in morning. I'm not exactly saying it should be an excuse but that seems like a lot to overcome. I was worried about this game as soon as I saw the kickoff time.

[Shazam!]

I hate games played 2 time zones away and kick off in the morning. I'd love to see a stat showing the win % of how teams from the West go east and play in morning. I'm not exactly saying it should be an excuse but that seems like a lot to overcome. I was worried about this game as soon as I saw the kickoff time.

Historically the Broncos have never been peak performers vs Buffalo. They've won plenty of games there, but not going away. They are not a common oponent and dont match up very well for some reason, time zone on the road being a major factor.

[Traveler]

we had this conversation a lot when Franklin was still in town, but Watson really looks like an athletic guard to me more so than a right tackle. Man if we could get just average play out of the right tackle this line would be pretty solid.

Speaking of Franklin, has he really regresses so badly that he is no longer a decent football player? If he can still play RT, I wouldn’t be upset if they signed him. That would allow them to move Leary back to his natural spot at LG (Garcia to the bench)and move Watson into the spot at LG. As stated by someone earlier, Watson seems a better prospect at G than RT.

[JPPT1974]

Yeah as really they are trying to correct some things. But it is going to take work. At least they got a win in Denver against the Raiders.

[Cugel]

Cut or Bench RT Watson. Broncos will be fine without him.

That's the problem. They don't really have anyone else. I was listening to Dave Logan on AM Talk Radio the other day and he was saying the team really needed to pick up another T to play swing tackle because they were terribly thin at the position. For instance their swing tackle now is Andre Barber who is actually alternating starting LG with Max Garcia. Barber has played RT in the past, but he barely gets any reps at all at RT and asking him to suddenly go there in an emergency without much practice in advance, would be virtually impossible if you expected him to perform at an adequate level.

He briefly filled in for injured Garrett Bolles at LT. (https://predominantlyorange.com/2017/09/18/allen-barbre-not-donald-stephenson-will-fill-left-tackle-broncos/) All in all he's useful. But, is that really the best you can do at RT? There has to be someone available on waivers or in FA who could come in and at least back up at RT?

[Jsteve01]

Cut or Bench RT Watson. Broncos will be fine without him.

That's the problem. They don't really have anyone else. I was listening to Dave Logan on AM Talk Radio the other day and he was saying the team really needed to pick up another T to play swing tackle because they were terribly thin at the position. For instance their swing tackle now is Andre Barber who is actually alternating starting LG with Max Garcia. Barber has played RT in the past, but he barely gets any reps at all at RT and asking him to suddenly go there in an emergency without much practice in advance, would be virtually impossible if you expected him to perform at an adequate level.

He briefly filled in for injured Garrett Bolles at LT. (https://predominantlyorange.com/2017/09/18/allen-barbre-not-donald-stephenson-will-fill-left-tackle-broncos/) All in all he's useful. But, is that really the best you can do at RT? There has to be someone available on waivers or in FA who could come in and at least back up at RT? the really frustrating thing about this situation is that unless he's completely regressed because of injuries Watson was always tab isn't Uber athletic offense of lineman. I know he's been hurt a lot maybe he's just hampered to the point where he can't move laterally on the outside. But he does still look athletic. That's the thing that drives me crazy when I watch him.

[Cugel]

the really frustrating thing about this situation is that unless he's completely regressed because of injuries Watson was always tab isn't Uber athletic offense of lineman. I know he's been hurt a lot maybe he's just hampered to the point where he can't move laterally on the outside. But he does still look athletic. That's the thing that drives me crazy when I watch him.

It honestly looks as though they got him for his run blocking ability, which is pretty good. But, they probably expected his pass-protection to be better than it has been. Plus, they probably thought Donald Stephenson would be better than he turned out as well.


"Even though the Denver Broncos used their 2017 first-round selection on Garret Bolles, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see the team pull the trigger on selecting another offensive tackle early on in the 2018 NFL Draft. It’s safe to say that Donald Stephenson has absolutely no future with the franchise (or in the league) and Menelik Watson’s play to date has been underwhelming to say the least. (https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/10/5/16430140/future-broncos-prospects-on-the-rise)There are some quality offensive line prospects in this year’s class, but one player in particular has experienced a meteoric rise up draft boards for his incredible play to date."