The Ringer: Touchdown Trevor is your God now

[VonDoom]

The NFL has a quarterback problem, and that problem is that 31 teams have quarterbacks who are not Trevor Siemian.

Trevor Siemian—Touchdown Trevor, T-Money, the Treviathan, Slim Siemian, the Trevor-Ending Story, Forever Trevor—threw four touchdowns Sunday in a 42-17 win over the Cowboys, putting him solely atop the NFL’s leaderboard with six on the season. This is true. I didn’t make this up. At time of publication, no quarterback has thrown more touchdowns in the 2017 NFL season than Trevor Siemian, and no quarterback is tied with Trevor Siemian. He has a rushing touchdown, too, and perhaps most importantly, his Broncos are 2-0.


But every step of Siemian’s professional career thus far has been an improbability. He was a bad quarterback on a bad college team; those often don’t get drafted. He was a seventh-round draft pick quarterback; those often don’t make their first team out of training camp. He was a third-string backup as a rookie; those players often don’t ever become a team’s starting quarterback in their second seasons. He was a player in whom his team had invested nothing; those players don’t often beat out recent first-round draft picks for starting jobs.

But now Siemian is doing the most improbable thing of all. He’s not the replacement-level player the Broncos had hoped for. In a league starved for quarterback play that isn’t actively harmful, Siemian is actually good

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/17/16323962/denver-broncos-trevor-siemian-cowboys

[Valar Morghulis]

Now I am worried we have Nick foles........ Looked great before flaming out into oblivion

[Simple Jaded]

Sell high.

[Joel]

Elway should just trade all his 1st-3rd round picks for tons of 4th-7th rounders "from now on." I mean, OK, we got Wolfe and Roby, but that's not much to show for seven seasons worth of 1st and 2nd round picks, especially by comparison to the horde of steady starters and roleplayers he keeps finding in later rounds. Just remember:

Ramming this noodle-armed 7th round nobody down Elways throat when he wanted the 1st round QBotF to start is why Kubiak got "forced out." :rolleyes:

[Tned]

Don't want to create another Trevor thread, but Baldinger is getting on the train.

Saying not many guys would throw into quadruple (maybe quintuple) coverage on this throw.

https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/909851062407979013

[Dreadnought]

Sell high.

naw, Paxton Lynch is far from at his high - I suspect his value is pretty much nil. Obviously, TS is untouchable no matter what the offer, so thats off the table.

[slim]

I'm not sure that was a compliment.

[Tned]

I'm not sure that was a compliment.

In reality, it was only triple coverage... I would be curious to hear what Baldy said vs. just his tweet. Whether he liked it or not.

[slim]

In reality, it was only triple coverage... I would be curious to hear what Baldy said vs. just his tweet. Whether he liked it or not.

It kind of looks like a bad decision by 13. I think Fowler was wide open on that play.

It worked, so can't be to harsh about it though.

[Tned]

It kind of looks like a bad decision by 13. I think Fowler was wide open on that play.

It worked, so can't be to harsh about it though.

Will have to wait for all 22 to be up on Gamepass, but I don't think Fowler was as open as you think, where with Sanders he threw into an open part of the endzone and threw Sanders to an undefended area. Granted, if he had made a low or short throw, it could have been trouble, but that would have been a bad throw and he made a good throw to where only Sanders could catch it.

[Freyaka]

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/17/16323962/denver-broncos-trevor-siemian-cowboys

The Trevor-Ending Story. This one! I like this one!

[Simple Jaded]

naw, Paxton Lynch is far from at his high - I suspect his value is pretty much nil. Obviously, TS is untouchable no matter what the offer, so thats off the table.

Look, I like TS as much as anyone and I was 100% joking ... but ... bullshit.

If you're making a projection that's fine, I've often said I hope Denver has 4 franchise QB's, but obviously it is far from obvious that TS is untouchable.

[Freyaka]

Now I am worried we have Nick foles........ Looked great before flaming out into oblivion

We have Trevor Siemian, his story hasn't been written yet.

[Simple Jaded]

If Browns offered Joe Thomas or Buffalo offered Cordy Glenn in any reasonable deal including TS (or Lynch, for that matter) I jump on it.

[Valar Morghulis]

We have Trevor Siemian, his story hasn't been written yet.

I get that, but I'm super excited, and it made me think how optimistic the eagles fans would have been that day he threw 7 tds.... Only to have him turn out to be very average

[Simple Jaded]

Elway should just trade all his 1st-3rd round picks for tons of 4th-7th rounders "from now on." I mean, OK, we got Wolfe and Roby, but that's not much to show for seven seasons worth of 1st and 2nd round picks, especially by comparison to the horde of steady starters and roleplayers he keeps finding in later rounds. Just remember:

Ramming this noodle-armed 7th round nobody down Elways throat when he wanted the 1st round QBotF to start is why Kubiak got "forced out." :rolleyes:

He was forced out because he wouldn't make the difficult decisions his job required.

[Tned]

If Browns offered Joe Thomas or Buffalo offered Cordy Glenn in any reasonable deal including TS (or Lynch, for that matter) I jump on it.

And who would you play at QB now that you have that nice cozy pocket (assuming LG and RT could still pass block -- presumably Bolles to RT).

[Freyaka]

I get that, but I'm super excited, and it made me think how optimistic the eagles fans would have been that day he threw 7 tds.... Only to have him turn out to be very average

Yes, but we also aren't the eagles, who are destined to have that sort of thing happen to them because God hates them due to them rampantly touching themselves at night.

That's why they have never and will never gotten a Superbowl win and we've got three and counting.

I can't predict the future, he could faceplant some day soon, until he does, enjoy it.

[Simple Jaded]

And who would you play at QB now that you have that nice cozy pocket (assuming LG and RT could still pass block -- presumably Bolles to RT).

Brent, Lynch, Kelly, draft pick.

[Dreadnought]

If Browns offered Joe Thomas or Buffalo offered Cordy Glenn in any reasonable deal including TS (or Lynch, for that matter) I jump on it.

That would be a chump move. No friggin' way. QB's are too hard to find, and TS shows real signs of being legit. I love esp. that he is a 7th Round guy who keeps beating the odds and won the job twice when the organization wanted someone else to win it. That kind of brains and heart Trumps athleticism every single time

[Simple Jaded]

Here we go again.

:rolleyes:

[Simple Jaded]

2 weeks ago half the fans hated TS, now he's Andrew Luck.

Btw, "That kind of brains and heart" ... barf. Why does everything have to turn into a Disney movie?

[Tned]

2 weeks ago half the fans hated TS, now he's Andrew Luck.

Half the fans had momentary idiotitis, but they are on the way to healing.

[Dreadnought]

2 weeks ago half the fans hated TS, now he's Andrew Luck.

I've loved Siemian since week 1 of 2016. Andrew Luck is Andrew Luck. Siemian is Siemian. Siemian plays a different game, and one I frankly prefer to Luck's reliance on raw athletic talent

[Freyaka]

2 weeks ago half the fans hated TS, now he's Andrew Luck.

Btw, "That kind of brains and heart" ... barf.

Some of us have been very consistent in or stance on TS.

[Dreadnought]

Btw, "That kind of brains and heart" ... barf. Why does everything have to turn into a Disney movie?

Not about any Disney Movie bullshit, its a reaction against the draft geeks, dim-bulbs, and other assorted imbeciles who rate guys based on their draft position, 40 time, verticle jump, bench press, 3 cone drills, and other crap not related to playing/winning games of tackle football.

[NightTrainLayne]

Don't want to create another Trevor thread, but Baldinger is getting on the train.

Saying not many guys would throw into quadruple (maybe quintuple) coverage on this throw.

https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/909851062407979013


I backed that play up and watched it at least 4 times yesterday. Called my wife over to watch it and explain everything going on so she could understand what a great play that was all over the field.

That play and throw by Siemian was just top-notch. If we get a little bit of that every game, we won't be taking too big a step down from Manning.

I'm not comparing Siemian to Manning. He's still got a hell of a long road to even get in that conversation. But if he can make a few plays like in-the-prime Manning (and make no mistake, that was a prime Manning read and throw) here and there. .. . with this defense. . . with this running game. . ..

[BeefStew25]

Wait. Kubiak was forced out?

[Joel]

If Browns offered Joe Thomas or Buffalo offered Cordy Glenn in any reasonable deal including TS (or Lynch, for that matter) I jump on it.
Glenn, maybe, but I'm not giving up a very promising QB at the dawn of his career for even an All Pro LT at the END of his. Evan Mathis was an All Pro too, but at 34 he was waiting by the phone two weeks before Opening Day until we called, and eventually lost even THAT job to Max freakin' Garcia. Thomas turns 34 Christmas 2018.

It's not even about position value (else I'd be right there with you) just longevity: If I'm going to go get a stud vet LT it's so he can help me develop some hotshot rookie into a stud vet QB—that's not an option if he RETIRES before we even DRAFT the kid!

[Joel]

He was forced out because he wouldn't make the difficult decisions his job required.
I dunno, keeping the raw 1st rounder on the bench in favor of the 7th rounder who can actually play seems like a pretty easy decision to me; did then, too.

Choosing between starting Okung or Stephenson and Schofield or Samfrailo wasn't a "difficult decision" either: It was Scylla and Charybdis, and choosing to run the K-Gun offense behind that garbage with effectively a rookie QB would've been rank lunacy.

[Hawgdriver]

It kind of looks like a bad decision by 13. I think Fowler was wide open on that play.

It worked, so can't be to harsh about it though.

He had the shot. There was no danger, so he took it.

[BroncoJoe]

Here we go again.

:rolleyes:

No. Here YOU go again.

[Gimpygod]

because this is the greatest QB of all time(just blew chunks writing that):
11085

this is not:
11086

Athleticism is the starting minimum trait for a great QB, nothing Disney about it.

[NightTrainLayne]

Dreadnought and GimpyGod both return on the same day?

Man. Siemian has some serious pull.

[Tned]

Dreadnought and GimpyGod both return on the same day?

Man. Siemian has some serious pull.

Yea, I was thinking the same thing.

[NightTrainLayne]

Yea, I was thinking the same thing.

The last time Dreadnought, Tned & GimpyGod all posted the day after a week 2 win we won the superbowl.

[Tned]

The last time Dreadnought, Tned & GimpyGod all posted the day after a week 2 win we won the superbowl.

I hope your more accurate on that stat than nobody on BF is stupid enough to pay for a PFF Elite subscription... ;)

[Joel]

He had the shot. There was no danger, so he took it.
There was certainly danger: Sean Lee is one of the only two legitimately good players on Dallas' D, and that ball just barely passed above his fingertips. Any time you throw to one of your guys amid a bunch of theirs, the danger is real. He got away with it because DeMarcus Lawrence is the only other Dallas defender who's not a scrub, and he was too busy rushing the passer to try to play deep robber, but it certainly bears watching when we face better secondaries. Because if anyone needs a lesson in what happens when even the best offense comes in overconfident against a great D on its home turf: 42-17.

[Tned]

He had the shot. There was no danger, so he took it.

Great post, it will be lost on most. :salute:

[NightTrainLayne]

I hope your more accurate on that stat than nobody on BF is stupid enough to pay for a PFF Elite subscription... ;)

I didn't say nobody was "stupid enough" to do so. I'm quite sure we have folks stupid enough. ;)

[Tned]

I didn't say nobody was "stupid enough" to do so. I'm quite sure we have folks stupid enough. ;)

Same kind of idiot that would throw money at some awful colored website for a decade. ;)

[tomjonesrocks]

Is it time to lock Siemian up long-term? Maybe to a team-friendly 20-25M deal?

Obviously it's a little early - but if he can keep this up for even another 5-6 games he will be a very, very rich man - either here or elsewhere.

I have been supportive but not overly enthusiastic on Siemian - his skills don't exactly leap off the screen. But he's looked as good or better than Oz ever did IMO.

[Tned]

Is it time to lock Siemian up long-term? Maybe to a team-friendly 20-25M deal?

Obviously it's a little early - but if he can keep this up for even another 5-6 games he will be a very, very rich man - either here or elsewhere.

I have been supportive but not overly enthusiastic on Siemian - his skills don't exactly leap off the screen. But he's looked as good or better than Oz ever did IMO.

I would say a little early, but wait too long, and he keeps improving, he could be looking at 30-35 million as a free agent, but have to risk another year and a half league minimum salary and chance of career ending injury, especially behind this line.

If he plays the way he is now through mid season, if I'm the Broncos, I have to start thinking about reaching out to his agent.

[Joel]

↑
Most

Great post, it will be lost on most. :salute:

[Nomad]

I hope Siemian doesn't get beat up like the Bills did to Newton yesterday.

[slim]

He had the shot. There was no danger, so he took it.

Settle down, Viper.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

In reality, it was only triple coverage... I would be curious to hear what Baldy said vs. just his tweet. Whether he liked it or not.

I would say his comment "the Bronco wide receivers are going to have a lot of fun this season", probably answers that question.

[Tned]

Settle down, Viper.

There was a hard deck on that route.

[Tned]

I would say his comment "the Bronco wide receivers are going to have a lot of fun this season", probably answers that question.

Agreed. Just listened to it with sound a few minutes ago. When I saw it earlier at work, didn't have sound on, so only had the comment in his Tweet. Listening to the sound, he clearly liked it.

[aberdien]

He's not as boring as he was last year. I hope this trend continues.

[Canmore]

He's not as boring as he was last year. I hope this trend continues.

Trevor got boring after he was pummeled and had his left shoulder left hanging by a thread. Pray that he doesn't get the same treatment this year and we will be fine.

[Cugel]

It kind of looks like a bad decision by 13. I think Fowler was wide open on that play.

It worked, so can't be to harsh about it though.

The TV announcers called it at the time. It was a broken coverage. TS spotted that the S was biting down on the play fake, leaving Sanders able to get behind the defense to the back of the end zone for a TD.

There's just absolutely no reason why the deep safety should EVER let a WR get behind him like that in end-zone coverage, allowing Sanders to run wide open along the back of the end zone. TS spots that Sanders is blowing past the S as soon as he's back in his stance and ready to throw, and he instantly exploits it by throwing to a spot towards the back of the end zone where Sanders will be.

That was exactly what the commenter in the video says: a great call and a great throw by Trevor. That was the most impressive play TS made in his career, I think , and definitely not a mistake. If he made a bad throw it would look terrible because he'd be picked off. But, he didn't. He made a perfect throw. And his willingness to throw it into such tight coverage in the red zone (where turnovers are unforgivable and highly criticized by the coaches), shows that it was no accident he completed that pass.

He knew he could make that throw. He'd done it before in practice and games, and he just did it. He is playing with a ton of confidence right now. Winning the 2nd straight QB competition seems to have boosted his confidence sky high. Now he's just building off that success.

[Canmore]

The TV announcers called it at the time. It was a broken coverage. TS spotted that the S was biting down on the play fake, leaving Sanders able to get behind the defense to the back of the end zone for a TD.

There's just absolutely no reason why the deep safety should EVER let a WR get behind him like that in end-zone coverage, allowing Sanders to run wide open along the back of the end zone. TS spots that Sanders is blowing past the S as soon as he's back in his stance and ready to throw, and he instantly exploits it by throwing to a spot towards the back of the end zone where Sanders will be.

That was exactly what the commenter in the video says: a great call and a great throw by Trevor. That was the most impressive play TS made in his career, I think , and definitely not a mistake. If he made a bad throw it would look terrible because he'd be picked off. But, he didn't. He made a perfect throw. And his willingness to throw it into such tight coverage in the red zone (where turnovers are unforgivable and highly criticized by the coaches), shows that it was no accident he completed that pass.

He knew he could make that throw. He'd done it before in practice and games, and he just did it. He is playing with a ton of confidence right now. Winning the 2nd straight QB competition seems to have boosted his confidence sky high. Now he's just building off that success.

Agreed. Preach it brother!

[I Eat Staples]

Not about any Disney Movie bullshit, its a reaction against the draft geeks, dim-bulbs, and other assorted imbeciles who rate guys based on their draft position, 40 time, verticle jump, bench press, 3 cone drills, and other crap not related to playing/winning games of tackle football.

Those things ARE related to winning football games though. Of course the draft analysts get things wrong, and they may very well have missed on TS, but they're right more often than they're wrong. It's not like draft evaluation is a bunch of random pseudo-science.

And even if we based everything solely on performance and productivity in college, TS was really, really bad. One of the worst college QBs to ever start an NFL game, even. If he can maintain playing at a level in the same universe as these first 2 weeks, he'll end up being a better story than Kurt Warner. It would be unprecedented.

All of that makes it even easier to root for him to succeed, but you can't blame anyone for doubting him or giving him a poor draft grade.

[Canmore]

Those things ARE related to winning football games though. Of course the draft analysts get things wrong, and they may very well have missed on TS, but they're right more often than they're wrong. It's not like draft evaluation is a bunch of random pseudo-science.

And even if we based everything solely on performance and productivity in college, TS was really, really bad. One of the worst college QBs to ever start an NFL game, even. If he can maintain playing at a level in the same universe as these first 2 weeks, he'll end up being a better story than Kurt Warner. It would be unprecedented.

All of that makes it even easier to root for him to succeed, but you can't blame anyone for doubting him or giving him a poor draft grade.

No it is not, but when it comes to rating quarterbacks it still looks a lot like throwing darts. Trevor Siemian looks like a keeper, seven picks from Mr. Irrelevant.

[topscribe]

Elway should just trade all his 1st-3rd round picks for tons of 4th-7th rounders "from now on." I mean, OK, we got Wolfe and Roby, but that's not much to show for seven seasons worth of 1st and 2nd round picks, especially by comparison to the horde of steady starters and roleplayers he keeps finding in later rounds. Just remember:

Ramming this noodle-armed 7th round nobody down Elways throat when he wanted the 1st round QBotF to start is why Kubiak got "forced out." :rolleyes:
Well, I don't know . . . he also got Shane Ray, Adam Gotsis, and Garrett Bolles. We have
yet to see about DeMarcus Walker. And you forgot to mention Von (!). I admit there have
been some busts, but let's not make it worse than it is. ;)

[topscribe]

Trevor got boring after he was pummeled and had his left shoulder left hanging by a thread. Pray that he doesn't get the same treatment this year and we will be fine.
They had better do something about right tackle, or Trevor might finish the season in a body bag . . .

[Tned]

Those things ARE related to winning football games though. Of course the draft analysts get things wrong, and they may very well have missed on TS, but they're right more often than they're wrong. It's not like draft evaluation is a bunch of random pseudo-science.

And even if we based everything solely on performance and productivity in college, TS was really, really bad. One of the worst college QBs to ever start an NFL game, even. If he can maintain playing at a level in the same universe as these first 2 weeks, he'll end up being a better story than Kurt Warner. It would be unprecedented.

All of that makes it even easier to root for him to succeed, but you can't blame anyone for doubting him or giving him a poor draft grade.

Most of the above is accurate, but when you then have 3, 9, 14 games (not finally 16 games) of NFL experience, it's the self proclaimed draft and NFL experts that still keep referring back to the draft grade as proof of how good Siemian can be, or can't be.

[Freyaka]

Those things ARE related to winning football games though. Of course the draft analysts get things wrong, and they may very well have missed on TS, but they're right more often than they're wrong. It's not like draft evaluation is a bunch of random pseudo-science.

And even if we based everything solely on performance and productivity in college, TS was really, really bad. One of the worst college QBs to ever start an NFL game, even. If he can maintain playing at a level in the same universe as these first 2 weeks, he'll end up being a better story than Kurt Warner. It would be unprecedented.

All of that makes it even easier to root for him to succeed, but you can't blame anyone for doubting him or giving him a poor draft grade.

I think the problem is that far too many around here keep referring back to what was, rather than looking at what IS right in front of them.

If you want some really interesting reads. Look at articles from January 2014 to the end of October 2014. One article has him listed as one of the QB's with the best arm strength as an example, something fans here laughed about, but that we are now starting to see to be true with some of the throws he's made recently.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2171769-2014-college-football-qbs-with-best-arm-strength

Another interesting thing contrasting his collegiate career to his pro career is the biggest thing you could complain about is that his TD to INT ratio was terrible.

https://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/players/playerpage/1737627/trevor-siemian

We've seen that this is not the case both last season and this. The point really is, it's easy to point to his college career and say "he sucked there, he'll suck here if you wait long enough" but the game tape the last two weeks (and even last season) is telling different story than the one his college career tells us.

You are right, there is a lot in college to justify the poor draft grade, it would have been higher had he not tore his ACL, but it was never going to be top 2 rounds.

I get the initial hesitation, I do...Last season, when people were suggesting that TS would be the starter I was in hardcore mockery mode, the notion that some 7th round nobody could beat out all of the QB's on our roster, much less make the team seemed laughable to me. So I understand why people were slow to adopt TS, I was too until I saw him in the preseason, but at this point, I'm struggling with the continued derision and mockery out of some.

It's very obvious that he's grown past the QB he was in college, the numbers alone tell us that, maybe there is room for continued growth, maybe there isn't, but it's time to stop judging him based on college and start examining what is right in front of us right here, right now.

[Cugel]

Those things ARE related to winning football games though. Of course the draft analysts get things wrong, and they may very well have missed on TS, but they're right more often than they're wrong. It's not like draft evaluation is a bunch of random pseudo-science.

And even if we based everything solely on performance and productivity in college, TS was really, really bad. One of the worst college QBs to ever start an NFL game, even. If he can maintain playing at a level in the same universe as these first 2 weeks, he'll end up being a better story than Kurt Warner. It would be unprecedented.

All of that makes it even easier to root for him to succeed, but you can't blame anyone for doubting him or giving him a poor draft grade.

There seems to be some kind of fan sentiment that if the scouts were wrong about a player, that means the entire scouting and personnel departments are "draft geeks, dim-bulbs, and other assorted imbeciles who rate guys based on their draft position, 40 time, verticle jump, bench press, 3 cone drills, and other crap not related to playing/winning games of tackle football."

Occasionally, about once every 15 to 20 years, the entire NFL personnel departments miss on a QB, who turns out to be Tom Brady or Kurt Warner. Mostly though, they're right. There have been about 150 QBs taken after the mid 2nd round since 2000 when Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round. Most of them sucked, just like the scouts predicted.

If Trevor starts and wins the SB after being drafted in the 7th round, he will be the FIRST such QB to do so in the last 17 years. Now THAT is why NFL scouting departments analyse all that "imbecile" stuff. Because normally, you can weed out those that haven't got the skills to be great. It's just sometimes that a player falls through the cracks.

We don't know if Trevor is that QB but so far it looks like it. It's early days yet though.

[VonDoom]

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/910197737878052864

[Freyaka]

There seems to be some kind of fan sentiment that if the scouts were wrong about a player, that means the entire scouting and personnel departments are "draft geeks, dim-bulbs, and other assorted imbeciles who rate guys based on their draft position, 40 time, verticle jump, bench press, 3 cone drills, and other crap not related to playing/winning games of tackle football."

Occasionally, about once every 15 to 20 years, the entire NFL personnel departments miss on a QB, who turns out to be Tom Brady or Kurt Warner. Mostly though, they're right. There have been about 150 QBs taken after the mid 2nd round since 2000 when Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round. Most of them sucked, just like the scouts predicted.

If Trevor starts and wins the SB after being drafted in the 7th round, he will be the FIRST such QB to do so in the last 17 years. Now THAT is why NFL scouting departments analyse all that "imbecile" stuff. Because normally, you can weed out those that haven't got the skills to be great. It's just sometimes that a player falls through the cracks.

We don't know if Trevor is that QB but so far it looks like it. It's early days yet though.

My question to that would be, how many late round QB's would have succeeded with a higher draft grade.

Obviously, we can't measure it and cannot know, but how many QB's actually get put in a position to overcome their meager start? Just food for thought.

[aberdien]

It's not like draft evaluation is a bunch of random pseudo-science.

It pretty much is.

[Simple Jaded]

Not about any Disney Movie bullshit, its a reaction against the draft geeks, dim-bulbs, and other assorted imbeciles who rate guys based on their draft position, 40 time, verticle jump, bench press, 3 cone drills, and other crap not related to playing/winning games of tackle football.

You forgot to mention NFL GM's, coaches and scouts, certainly they would be interested in hearing how 2 games is enough for you to reducd a life spent analyzing these things to be something less than fairytale intangibles.

It has everything to do with Disney movie bullshit.

[Simple Jaded]

Those things ARE related to winning football games though. Of course the draft analysts get things wrong, and they may very well have missed on TS, but they're right more often than they're wrong. It's not like draft evaluation is a bunch of random pseudo-science.

And even if we based everything solely on performance and productivity in college, TS was really, really bad. One of the worst college QBs to ever start an NFL game, even. If he can maintain playing at a level in the same universe as these first 2 weeks, he'll end up being a better story than Kurt Warner. It would be unprecedented.

All of that makes it even easier to root for him to succeed, but you can't blame anyone for doubting him or giving him a poor draft grade.

Half the people here hated Siemian 3 weeks ago, and the other half liked him because he was an underdog, 7th round feel-good story.

[Canmore]

Half the people here hated Siemian 3 weeks ago, and the other half liked him because he was an underdog, 7th round feel-good story.

You are lumping me in with two groups. They both suck! I like him because of his decision making skills. End of story!

[Tned]

Half the people here hated Siemian 3 weeks ago, and the other half liked him because he was an underdog, 7th round feel-good story.

Weak math, as you left out the group that didn't like him because he was an underdog, but instead because he had one of the best first years starting in the last couple decades.

[Nomad]

Let's hope Trevor continues to play the way he has, and exceeds expectations by many (even the experts). This Dallas game he was Manningesque to watch, but we/he/the BRONCOS knows there is still a long path to the playoffs...... he has us on the right track. Some reason, I have a feeling this game in Buffalo is going to test him.

[Timmy!]

Lol. Broncos fans and QBs. Always drama. Y'all need to relax.

[Cugel]

My question to that would be, how many late round QB's would have succeeded with a higher draft grade.

Obviously, we can't measure it and cannot know, but how many QB's actually get put in a position to overcome their meager start? Just food for thought.

There has to be a draft. And NFL GMs are not imbeciles, no matter how many lack-wit fans on the internet insist otherwise. So, some guys get drafted high, and some low or not at all. And it's not just some idiots being prejudiced against a player. They are trying to predict future success based on unknowns. Some guys just have it and some don't, and there's just no way to predict in advance. But, there are reliable guides that USUALLY can tell you whether the guy has a shot. So, scouts rely on those.

Since most of the QBs who are either drafted in the 7th round or not at all suck, this system works pretty well.

However, there are problems. First, college football is not at all like the NFL and getting MORE Unlike it every year. College coaches need to win now, and they can do so best by not trusting their players any more than they have to. Young kids make mistakes, and mistakes cost you football games and losing gets you fired.

Then, like Paxton and a host of other first and second round QBs, they get to the NFL and have no idea how to play in the league. Some learn, and some don't.

But, the same thing is true of 7th round QBs too, it's just that they have even less demonstrated athletic skill and playmaking ability. What should they do? Draft 100 small school QBs in the usually forlorn hope that one of them won't be a turd sandwich when given the chance?

Trevor did not light it up in college, hence he fell in the draft. Some teams admitted they didn't even bother to scout him - small school, not full time starter, not really that tall or athletic, there just wasn't much there to differentiate him from all the other college QBs who have no shot of making it in the NFL.

He was barely worth a pick to 1 team, the Broncos. He was a camp arm, destined to sit on the practice squad for a couple of years until his eligibility expired, then goodbye! And lucky even to be IN the NFL for a cup of coffee.

That's actually how MOST of the NFL players spend their careers. The Von Millers of the world are rare.

But, the one thing nobody could gauge before the draft - mental ability to learn a system he never studied before, distinguished Trevor. He won over the coaching staff. He won the starting job.

[Freyaka]

Lol. Broncos fans and QBs. Always drama. Y'all need to relax.

That's pretty much the truest thing spoken in this thread.

[Joel]

I've always liked Siemian simply because all our other QBs were much worse (at least now that future first ballot HoFer Kyle Sloter's gone. ;)) Last year I viewed him as a sacrificial lamb because we had to start SOMEONE behind our crap protection while our raw rookie 1st rounder learned complex things like the playbook, reading defenses and how to tie his shoes.

On that note: If Stewart's raving about all the things Siemian picked up from Manning in a SINGLE YEAR where he was having to learn everything about the NFL at once, what's it say about Oz that he shared the film room with Manning FOUR years yet STILL isn't ready? Oz forgot his helmet AND its contents, so this is his whole career:

http://i.imgur.com/szWKLM7.gif

[Cugel]

That's pretty much the truest thing spoken in this thread.

What's the problem? The Broncos have their QB and he's doing a decent job. The Two Giraffes are on the bench, where hopefully they will stay.

By next year, not even John Elway will be able to flog Paxton Lynch or Brock off on the Broncos fan base instead of Trevor. The competition is over. IF Trevor fails, the Broncos will have to go back to the draft and seek another QB.

[Cugel]

I've always liked Siemian simply because all our other QBs were much worse (at least now that future first ballot HoFer Kyle Sloter's gone. ;)) Last year I viewed him as a sacrificial lamb because we had to start SOMEONE behind our crap protection while our raw rookie 1st rounder learned complex things like the playbook, reading defenses and how to tie his shoes.

On that note: If Stewart's raving about all the things Siemian picked up from Manning in a SINGLE YEAR where he was having to learn everything about the NFL at once, what's it say about Oz that he shared the film room with Manning FOUR years yet STILL isn't ready? Oz forgot his helmet AND its contents, so this is his whole career:

http://i.imgur.com/szWKLM7.gif

He didn't forget his helmet. That scene was the famous incident where Peyton ran back out on the field in garbage time while Brock was "oh, boy! I get to go in now!" Then he saw Peyton running back onto the field, and threw up his hands. This was all before Peyton got benched of course. And before Brock gave the Broncos the goodbye and went off for the big payday. And of course, he can't play dead in a Western as he proved in Houston.

This looks to be Elway trying to prove he was right after all "Paxton is tall! Brock is even taller! Now we have TWO Giraffes! Awesome!"

[Joel]

He didn't forget his helmet. That scene was the famous incident where Peyton ran back out on the field in garbage time while Brock was "oh, boy! I get to go in now!" Then he saw Peyton running back onto the field, and threw up his hands. This was all before Peyton got benched of course. And before Brock gave the Broncos the goodbye and went off for the big payday. And of course, he can't play dead in a Western as he proved in Houston.

This looks to be Elway trying to prove he was right after all "Paxton is tall! Brock is even taller! Now we have TWO Giraffes! Awesome!"
I remember when it was, but also remember someone (I wanna say GEM) saying, "If you think you're going in, have your helmet on ALREADY, not your baseball cap." Which is interesting, because when I was googling the gif I was an article about at the time where Fox took the blame with a comment his brain (he claims to have one, also against all evidence) was saying something about "warming up" and he decided Oz wasn't warmed up enough yet, so he stayed with Manning a few more plays.

Oz wasn't ready, which really has been his whole career, with the brief but crucial exception of mid-2015, when Manning COULDN'T play and Oz was just good enough.

[Cugel]

Oz wasn't ready, which really has been his whole career, with the brief but crucial exception of mid-2015, when Manning COULDN'T play and Oz was just good enough.

Nobody can argue with the idea that Oz has never been ready. He sucked his way out of Houston and Cleveland. And the Browns got rid of him despite the fact that their remaining QBs are rookie DeShaun Kizer, Cody Kessler, and the awesome Kevin Hogan!

[Poet]

Let the good times roll.

[Jsteve01]

That's an oversimplification to say that people who love Trevor just loved him because he was a long shot. I liked the intangibles. As I've been saying all offseason his arm was completely under valued last year when he was throwing with a bad ankle and a bad off shoulder. Still not ready to say he's the quarterback of the future after lighting it up against a decimated Cowboy secondary. But the beautiful thing is confidence breeds confidence. Good performances even against Bad teams lead to good performances against better teams. I like Trevor because I think the guy has never truly been healthy until this year he finally has a run game and his undervalued athleticism and arm strength is finally getting to show because he's getting a little bit of protection and he's not beat up

[topscribe]

That's an oversimplification to say that people who love Trevor just loved him because he was a long shot. I liked the intangibles. As I've been saying all offseason his arm was completely under valued last year when he was throwing with a bad ankle and a bad off shoulder. Still not ready to say he's the quarterback of the future after lighting it up against a decimated Cowboy secondary. But the beautiful thing is confidence breeds confidence. Good performances even against Bad teams lead to good performances against better teams. I like Trevor because I think the guy has never truly been healthy until this year he finally has a run game and his undervalued athleticism and arm strength is finally getting to show because he's getting a little bit of protection and he's not beat up
Trevor had a good day against not only a decimated Cowboys secondary, but also a strong Chargers secondary and pass rush. Just saying . . . :)

[tripp]

So how are our feelings going to be towards Trevor when he has a stinker of a game?

We've seen Trevor perform under great circumstances (run game working, and converting 3rd downs), not sure how most of us will be when he throws 3 INT's and loses a game.

I can't help but feel like the Broncos FO is happy with the way things are (obviously), but his leash is short and are looking for opportunities to work in Lynch in the future. I hate that, and I hope TS gets the chance ANY 1st rounder would get.

[Joel]

So how are our feelings going to be towards Trevor when he has a stinker of a game?

We've seen Trevor perform under great circumstances (run game working, and converting 3rd downs), not sure how most of us will be when he throws 3 INT's and loses a game.

I can't help but feel like the Broncos FO is happy with the way things are (obviously), but his leash is short and are looking for opportunities to work in Lynch in the future. I hate that, and I hope TS gets the chance ANY 1st rounder would get.
It took more than one good game to get here, so I think it'll take more than one bad one to get to Lynch. It's not like Lynch has shown anyone anything—EVER—to argue he's "the guy." Always beware the false dichotomy: Even if Siemian just had a couple lucky games, plays like crap the rest of his career and is never anyones answer at QB, none of that makes Lynch a single iota better. "Failure is always an option" for BOTH of them.

I also don't think the FO wants to put itself in a position of vacillating between QBs without to ride with for good (or ill.) Setting aside how much everyone (but especially GMs) dreads a full blown QB controversy playing out with the fanbase and media, it's not good for the rest of the team (especially but not only the offense) to have no idea from week to week who's the (current) "starting" QB. On a certain level, even bad consistency is better than NONE.

[Simple Jaded]

That's an oversimplification to say that people who love Trevor just loved him because he was a long shot. I liked the intangibles. As I've been saying all offseason his arm was completely under valued last year when he was throwing with a bad ankle and a bad off shoulder. Still not ready to say he's the quarterback of the future after lighting it up against a decimated Cowboy secondary. But the beautiful thing is confidence breeds confidence. Good performances even against Bad teams lead to good performances against better teams. I like Trevor because I think the guy has never truly been healthy until this year he finally has a run game and his undervalued athleticism and arm strength is finally getting to show because he's getting a little bit of protection and he's not beat up

I like to make things simple, sometimes I make them over simple.

[Simple Jaded]

Weak math, as you left out the group that didn't like him because he was an underdog, but instead because he had one of the best first years starting in the last couple decades.

Ok, so 50%/49%/1%

#soundmath

[Simple Jaded]

That's pretty much the truest thing spoken in this thread.

Until this:

You're biased ... and lame.

[Freyaka]

Until this:

You're biased ... and lame.

And right, but we'll let that part slide.

[topscribe]

In an interview titled "Under the Headset: Q&A with QBs Coach Bill Musgrave," the
question was posed to him: "Do you feel like people don't notice how well he [Siemian]
moves as a quarterback?"

His answer: "Well, he throws the ball so well and he's so accurate and has great touch
and anticipation that a lot of the time, he's not required to use his movement skills,
but there are certain times when you have to pull it down and make something happen."

Rest of interview: http://tinyurl.com/ybudpb7e

[Simple Jaded]

I bet Siemian could catch Chris Harris Jr from behind.

[Joel]

I bet Siemian could catch Chris Harris Jr from behind.
Right: Harris ran the 40 a whopping 0.05 seconds slower than Talib and is 5 years younger to boot, but he can't outrun my dead gramma and Talib can return punts.

You know there's a difference between being an iconoclast and simply contrarian, right?

https://i.imgur.com/CFYWXts.jpg

[Poet]

Talib takes that ball to the house more than almost everyone though. He's so hood!

[Simple Jaded]

Right: Harris ran the 40 a whopping 0.05 seconds slower than Talib and is 5 years younger to boot, but he can't outrun my dead gramma and Talib can return punts.

You know there's a difference between being an iconoclast and simply contrarian, right?

https://i.imgur.com/CFYWXts.jpg

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000111714/WK-15-Can-t-Miss-Play-Harris-pick-six-off-Flacco

Joe Flacco don't care about big words like iconoclast and caustic.

[Simple Jaded]

Hey! Iconoclaustic, I'm a genius.

[Cugel]

Trevor had a good day against not only a decimated Cowboys secondary, but also a strong Chargers secondary and pass rush. Just saying . . . :)

What finally convinced me was seeing Trevor throw that TD pass to Emanuel Sanders at the back of the end-zone. He dropped that pass right over 3 defenders standing in front of Sander. A little less accuracy and it's an interception. Disaster.

But, he didn't worry about it. He just threw a perfect strike. It's not just confidence, it's accuracy. He might not have a cannon for an arm like Jay Cutler, but he has something much better - brains. (Never mind the personality comparisons. Cutler doesn't have one, so it's unfair comparing him to an actual team leader).

[Cugel]

Hey! Iconoclaustic, I'm a genius.

A genius, eh? Must be some new definition of word "genius" I'm not familiar with.

[Simple Jaded]

A genius, eh? Must be some new definition of word "genius" I'm not familiar with.

A true genius makes his own definitions, kinda like your "sources" except I'm really a genius.

[Poet]

Onions.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Where is your God now!?

Sorry I couldn't resist. ;)

[Cugel]

A true genius makes his own definitions, kinda like your "sources" except I'm really a genius.

I bow to the genius of your delusion! :wave:

[Cugel]

Where is your God now!?

Sorry I couldn't resist. ;)

I think we're perfectly OK with Trevor. He's a 2nd year player. There will be mistakes. Right now at 8:30 PM, I'm watching Derek Carr looking like he never saw a football before in losing to the Redskins 21-0. And he was competing for the NFL MVP award last year.

I'm still pretty happy with Trevor, and I was not at all in his camp come June. One poor game doesn't mean he isn't a good QB. He will make adjustments and learn from his mistakes in this game. The Defense really has much more to do to get ready for Raiders week.

[Simple Jaded]

I bow to the genius of your delusion! :wave:

Not good enough, you are not a friend of the crown.

[Poet]

Not good enough, you are not a friend of the crown.

You're pretty smart, but still astoundingly stupid. But you're not actually stupid. You're the guy who knows what you want to do is wrong, but you still do it because you're a man.

[Simple Jaded]

You're pretty smart, but still astoundingly stupid. But you're not actually stupid. You're the guy who knows what you want to do is wrong, but you still do it because you're a man.

Right? I keep telling these people but they're so stubborn.

[Poet]

Right? I keep telling these people but they're so stubborn.

I get you, Jaded.

[Simple Jaded]

I get you, Jaded.

Werd!

[CrazyHorse]

Broncos need to sign him to an extension before he commands more money. Same with Bossweiler for a veteran backup. Paxton Lynch is trade bait.

[MOtorboat]

Broncos need to sign him to an extension before he commands more money. Same with Bossweiler for a veteran backup. Paxton Lynch is trade bait.

No thanks. On pretty much all accounts.

[CrazyHorse]

No thanks. On pretty much all accounts.

Siemian plays out his rookie contract, leaves with an offer from another team after 2018. Osweiler signs elsewhere after this year and the team is stuck with Lynch, Kelly, or drafting another QB. I don't want that when he's shown he can be a capable starter in the NFL which is difficult to find.

[Cugel]

Siemian plays out his rookie contract, leaves with an offer from another team after 2018. Osweiler signs elsewhere after this year and the team is stuck with Lynch, Kelly, or drafting another QB. I don't want that when he's shown he can be a capable starter in the NFL which is difficult to find.

Siemian has this year and next year on his contract, and then they could franchise him (for about $25M). The Broncos could keep him and will if nobody better appears before then.

[turftoad]

No thanks. On pretty much all accounts.

Agreed. TS came crashing down to earth IMO.
He still is what I thought he was. An in between the 20's guy who has a hard time with the come from behind comeback.

[BroncoJoe]

Just like one good game doesn't crown someone, one bad game shouldn't throw them into the fire.

Siemian will be fine, IMO. If not, we'll move on. I do strongly believe that Paxton isn't the answer though.

[Nomad]

Just like one good game doesn't crown someone, one bad game shouldn't throw them into the fire.

Siemian will be fine, IMO. If not, we'll move on. I do strongly believe that Paxton isn't the answer though.

Oh lawd, now BWave is gonna come here with his 'put in Oz'. :lol:

[BroncoJoe]

Oh lawd, now BWave is gonna come here with his 'put in Oz'. :lol:

I wonder what they'll do with OZ once Paxton is healthy again. Keep all three?

[BeefStew25]

I wonder what they'll do with OZ once Paxton is healthy again. Keep all three?

I bet they are thinking of shelving Lynch for the year.

[Joel]

If he bounces back and has a good year overall I expect we'll extend him before price goes through the roof next year; if not, we'll keep him around as a backup and insurance policy on Lynch or whomever next year, possibly even giving him a small extension to be our long term backup. Unless someone's desperate enough to make him the next Flynn or Cassel in 2019, which is pretty likely: It's a passers league, even if the best passer available on the open market's not that great.

[tripp]

He has to show week in and week out, home and away that he is he consistent and doesn't turn the ball over. I can't see him losing his starting role unless he has about 4 more of these type of games.

It's a little concerning that he struggled a lot in Buffalo. A lot of tipped passes, and awful interceptions which we haven't seen much of in week 1 and 2. Doesn't give me much confidence going into week 4 against the Raiders

[LawDog]

What happens next year after Trevor beats out Paxton and Brent to be the starter?

[MOtorboat]

What happens next year after Trevor beats out Paxton and Brent to be the starter?

My answer to this question depends on a lot of things that haven't happened yet.

[LawDog]

My answer to this question depends on a lot of things that haven't happened yet.

As is the case with most hypothetical questions.

[MOtorboat]

As is the case with most hypothetical questions.

Are you theorizing that he plays well this season, Broncos make the playoffs, etc.?

If that's the case, then I have no issue.

[BroncoWave]

Oh lawd, now BWave is gonna come here with his 'put in Oz'. :lol:

I was just trolling in the game thread with that. I didn't actually think we should have brought in Oz. As limited as Siemian is, he's probably our best option this year.

[LawDog]

Are you theorizing that he plays well this season, Broncos make the playoffs, etc.?

If that's the case, then I have no issue.

Under your scenario, Trevor is the starter and won't be competing for it so, no.

[MOtorboat]

Under your scenario, Trevor is the starter and won't be competing for it so, no.

OK. So, then, your hypothetical has him playing badly this season?

In that case, I don't think that will be the three quarterbacks competing for the job.

[Cugel]

Just like one good game doesn't crown someone, one bad game shouldn't throw them into the fire.

Siemian will be fine, IMO. If not, we'll move on. I do strongly believe that Paxton isn't the answer though.

Son of a bitch! *sigh*

I have to agree with Bronco Joe. This causes me to have to re-think.

No, I still have to agree. Paxton is toast. People are over-reacting to Trevor having a bad game, just like they over-reacted in thinking the Broncos have the next Tom Brady after 2 games in which Trevor didn't suck.

[LawDog]

OK. So, then, your hypothetical has him playing badly this season?

In that case, I don't think that will be the three quarterbacks competing for the job.

1) Trevor plays well but we miss postseason because we fall short on division record.

2) Trevor plays average (some good some bad) and we go one and done in wildcard round.

Go.

[MOtorboat]

1) Trevor plays well but we miss postseason because we fall short on division record.

2) Trevor plays average (some good some bad) and we go one and done in wildcard round.

Go.

1.) Elway makes a move at quarterback.
2.) It's his job.

[Poet]

1 - We lock him up.

2- We offer him a midrange contract that he probably rejects, and we find ourselves in the Kirk Cousin situation.

3- We let him go and sign Kirk Cousins.

4- We sign him to a long term deal but it's of the Dalton variation where it's easy for us to get out of, but he gets paid so much guaranteed money up front that he doesn't care.

[Cugel]

OK. So, then, your hypothetical has him playing badly this season?

In that case, I don't think that will be the three quarterbacks competing for the job.

If Trevor continues to suck (0 TDs, 2 Ints and a 58.2 passer rating), then they will bench him eventually and put in Giraffe #1. Only we saw what happened to Houston when they made Giraffe #1 their starting QB for a season. They were so desperate to get rid of him they traded away a 2nd round pick to do it, which is unprecedented in NFL history (although common in the NBA). Then Cleveland got rid of him although their starting QB is DeShone Kizer (who currently has 3 TDs, 7 INTs and a passer rating of 52).

We all know what will happen then. Giraffe #1 will suck, and then what? Then the Broncos miss the playoffs. Perhaps they try Giraffe #2? We all know HE sucks even worse than #1.

So, next year it will be a first round rookie, Paxton (Elway won't give up totally), and Chad Kelly who will compete for the starting job. This will not be a scenario in which the Broncos compete for a SB.

It can only happen if Trevor continues to suck, thus throwing away all hopes for this season and next. (No way a rookie starting in 2018 is going to any super bowls).

Another alternative is that the Broncos try and find a veteran QB on the FA market and develop a rookie behind them.

[Simple Jaded]

Just like one good game doesn't crown someone, one bad game shouldn't throw them into the fire.

Siemian will be fine, IMO. If not, we'll move on. I do strongly believe that Paxton isn't the answer though.

I'm proud to agree with you, Joe.

Except on Paxton, you should feel shame.

[topscribe]

Trevor won't. He didn't last year, with it being his first year in action, with his injuries
and the lack of a supporting cast. He would have a bad game and then bounce back.
So he won't this year. I feel assured that yesterday was an anomaly for him.

[Poet]

He can be our regular season Andy Dalton. Just hope he's not the post season Andy Dalton.

[Cugel]

1 - We lock him up.

2- We offer him a midrange contract that he probably rejects, and we find ourselves in the Kirk Cousin situation.

3- We let him go and sign Kirk Cousins.

4- We sign him to a long term deal but it's of the Dalton variation where it's easy for us to get out of, but he gets paid so much guaranteed money up front that he doesn't care.


There are a couple of different ways to look at the upcoming season. The first way is that Cousins is set up to earn a huge, long-term deal following the season. (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bruce-allen-redskins-offered-kirk-cousins-53-million-but-he-prefers-franchise-tag/)Assuming Cousins can maintain his level of play from the past two seasons -- he's completed 68.3 percent of his passes for 9,083 yards, 54 touchdowns, 23 interceptions and a 99.3 passer rating since 2015 -- or even improve, someone might hand him an Andrew Luck type of contract. That's the deal Cousins is seeking. Maybe it'll be the 49ers, who are coached by ex-Redskins offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan. Maybe it'll be the Redskins. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Cousins is still open to signing a contract with the team after the season.

Cousins earnings:
2017 salary: $23.9M
2018 trans. tag: $28.7M
Total: $52.6 for 2 years.

Unless Cousins signs a new long term deal with Washington, they are going to have to pay him $28,7M next year, and then he becomes a FA and signs a new long term deal with someone else.

In 2019. So, I doubt he's available next season unless he starts to suck, in which case the Broncos won't want him. But, John Elway giving him a $100M contract is probably not going to happen. He just rejected a 5 year 53 Million contract.

[Simple Jaded]

There is no mid-tier salary for QB's, they're all resetting the market, which is exactly why you start planning for TS's departure now.

No way in hell you pay TS more than you paid PFM to break every record in the book just 4 years ago.

[Cugel]

There is no mid-tier salary for QB's, they're all resetting the market, which is exactly why you start planning for TS's departure now.

No way in hell you pay TS more than you paid PFM to break every record in the book just 4 years ago.

You do if that is the market. I forget what Elway made in his last contract, which was at the top of the QB market at the time, but I seem to remember it was around $7 million a year. That won't even get you a backup QB in this market.

Elway will pay market rates for a QB because you need one of those and you have to pay what the market demands.

[tripp]

1 - We lock him up.

2- We offer him a midrange contract that he probably rejects, and we find ourselves in the Kirk Cousin situation.

3- We let him go and sign Kirk Cousins.

4- We sign him to a long term deal but it's of the Dalton variation where it's easy for us to get out of, but he gets paid so much guaranteed money up front that he doesn't care.

I'd take a shot at getting Philip Rivers..

[slim]

You do if that is the market.

No.

[Cugel]

No.

Well, if your opposition is based on the idea that Trevor isn't a long-term franchise QB, and it turns out you are right after this year, then no.

If Elway concludes that he is, then yes. You don't give up a Franchise QB. Not ever. Just look at what is happening with Kirk Cousins. The Redskins stand to look like utter morons, failing to lock up their 29 year old Franchise QB to a long-term deal, and now they are engaged in the time honoured custom of blame shifting - in anticipation that the Redskins will lose Cousins, then tank, and ownership doesn't want the fans blaming them for the team sucking while Cousins goes off to help some other team win in the playoffs.

That's not how they run things in Denver. Elway wants to win championships.

So, just saying "no!" "It's too much money." makes zero sense. If you need a kidney transplant are you going to say "Too much money! I'll just get by without it?"

[Poet]

The Redskins had a guy who went from (at times) looking like a franchise guy to being a pretty average to bad QB. That franchise is horrid, and the ownership is bad, but if Cousins gets paid it's not because the 'Skins let a top ten QB walk.

We can make a really long list of guys who had some impressive seasons and even impressive runs who, at the end of the day, aren't legitimately top ten type of guys.

[topscribe]

I'd take a shot at getting Philip Rivers..
Rivers isn't going anywhere. He poops lightning bolts . . .

[Freyaka]

Rivers isn't going anywhere. He poops lightning bolts . . .

The contract would have to be enormous for him to be able to afford to move all his children to another state.

[topscribe]

The contract would have to be enormous for him to be able to afford to move all his children to another state.
:laugh:

[Slick]

I hope that doesn't get deleted.

[dogfish]

I hope that doesn't get deleted.

i hope i don't get deleted! NTL apparently has an itchy trigger finger. . .

[Slick]

i hope i don't get deleted! NTL apparently has an itchy trigger finger. . .

Kinger was off his ass tonight. Quality post after quality post. I will miss him.

[Tned]

Apparently I missed some fun.

I watched the game tape delayed because I was out of town, what happened to Trevor. Wasn't as sharp as the first two days. I really thought he got hurt on that blow to the head shoulders, because afterwards his passes were Manning wobbly, where before that, he was throwing tight spirals.

[slim]

And so it begins.

[dogfish]

And so it begins.

sandy was openly questioning whether the broncos would go to brock if TS played poorly against the faders. . . i wanted to punch him in the throat. . .

[BeefStew25]

sandy was openly questioning whether the broncos would go to brock if TS played poorly against the faders. . . i wanted to punch him in the throat. . .

Media are whores. Man Ranch will be just fine.

[Freyaka]

sandy was openly questioning whether the broncos would go to brock if TS played poorly against the faders. . . i wanted to punch him in the throat. . .

Brockwatch 2017

[Tned]

sandy was openly questioning whether the broncos would go to brock if TS played poorly against the faders. . . i wanted to punch him in the throat. . .

There are some on air guys that are very invested in saying Siemian is a low tier starter or only backup material, so they are going to jump on any struggles as proof of their narrative.

[Cugel]

There are some on air guys that are very invested in saying Siemian is a low tier starter or only backup material, so they are going to jump on any struggles as proof of their narrative.

The Broncos don't believe that so it makes zero difference. The team believes in Trevor and media morons can believe what they like for all the effect it will have they might as well be speaking Urdu.

[Jsteve01]

There are some on air guys that are very invested in saying Siemian is a low tier starter or only backup material, so they are going to jump on any struggles as proof of their narrative.

The Broncos don't believe that so it makes zero difference. The team believes in Trevor and media morons can believe what they like for all the effect it will have they might as well be speaking Urdu. and believe me the coaching staff isn't happy with poor decisions but they also are completely aware of the deficiencies on the offense in line.

[DT88TheGreat]

We're going to blame the offensive line for the 5th year in a row for our quarterbacks having bad games? I think the OL is rising. I think Trevor is rising other than last week. I have too see how the rivalry game play's out this week. Trevor has to shine and win this game or else it wil start looking like last year where he started hot for a couple game's and then quickly fizzled into mediocrity.

I have faith that it was just ONE bad game though, but by no means necessary is Brock the answer if Trevor somehow flames out ( which I doubt happens )

Id rather play lynch if Trevor somehow flamed out.