If they let Kyle Sloter go, I will be pissed

[sneakers]

What are the odds he makes the team?

[LawDog]

This question should be asked after Thursday's scrimmage.

[elsid13]

None. VJ has already said they are carrying two QBs, and they are looking for vet if Lynch is out more then a couple of weeks.

[Cugel]

What are the odds he makes the team?

On the active 53? ZERO. If he clears waivers? PS chances are quite good. Not 100% because other teams would be able to offer him contracts too, even after he clears waivers.

What fans are not taking into account is that y'all have tunnel vision!

You think Kyle Sloter is something special because you only follow and watch the Broncos or at most maybe 1 other team if you live out of state. Sometimes.

About 1/2 the teams in the league have a Kyle Sloter. And maybe 10 of these teams are "excited" by the prospects of their developmental QB, or so they'll tell anybody who asks.

According to 9News Broncos Insider Mike Klis - who talked to Joseph and other team sources off the record and commented on what he was told:

1. The Broncos are not nearly as high on Sloter as the fans and media.

2. He's "exceeded their expectations" which was that he was a temporary camp arm who would be cut to get down to the 53 man roster. Mr. Expendable. Dozens of guys like that dot NFL training camps every single year. Most of them get cut, then signed to the Practice Squad for a couple of years until their PS eligibility runs out and then they're out of the league and a new crop of Mr. Expendables come in.

Rinse and repeat. Occasionally the fans get excited by the performance of one of these camp arms, but the team rarely is and Kyle Sloter is just not an exception. Sorry if you disagree, but that's their view.

3. This all means they will cut him, and when he clears waivers, they'll try and re-sign him to the PS where he will be the 4th string QB (behind Trevor, Paxton, and some veteran QB they get to be the backup to Trevor while Paxton is rehabbing, possibly until game 4).

When Paxton is rehabbed, they cut the veteran, and keep Sloter on the PS.

They do NOT plan on using him this season. I don't know if that could change but every time Klis asked about Sloter possibly moving up to #2 on the depth chart, he was shot down. "That's not happening."

VJ was particularly brutal and direct in his answer to questions about Sloter's "status" now that Paxton is hurt. "His status? His status is just what it was. He's a backup. We're not doing that." (Moving Sloter up to #2 on the depth chart).

[Hawgdriver]

Sorry Sneaks, but Paxton has already filled the QBOTF position. Seat taken!

[dogfish]

it's discouraging to see how dismissive they are of sloter. . . Leader of Men sounds downright contemptuous every time he talks about the kid. . . if he's really that awful, why exactly is he on your team? thank god shenanigans didn't have that sort of attitude about terrell davis, who also didn't do much in college. . . they can protect their binkie paxton all they like, but at some point they're probably gonna have to admit that the kid can't play, regardless of where he was drafted. . .

[Joel]

3. This all means they will cut him, and when he clears waivers, they'll try and re-sign him to the PS where he will be the 4th string QB (behind Trevor, Paxton, and some veteran QB they get to be the backup to Trevor while Paxton is rehabbing, possibly until game 4).

When Paxton is rehabbed, they cut the veteran, and keep Sloter on the PS.
The problem with that is that they can't just sign some vet for however few weeks it takes Lynch to heal, then unceremoniously dump said vet: If he is on the roster Opening Day his FULL 2017 salary will be GUARANTEED. Even a backup punter is mandated about half a million if he has >3 accrued seasons, but we're not talking about a 4th string RB: A veteran NFL QB with starting experience. Even rejects like Oz command several million of cap space we won't have if we need depth when (not if) some other starter is out for a few weeks (or months, or the whole rest of the season) later.

Signing a vet for just a couple weeks until Lynch is healthy sounds good in theory, but in practice all we'd "gain" by releasing him a few weeks after signing him is a spot on the 53. In which case we might as well put Sloter in that spot, then demote him to the PS once Lynch is healthy.

[Hawgdriver]

it's discouraging to see how dismissive they are of sloter. . . Leader of Men sounds downright contemptuous every time he talks about the kid. . . if he's really that awful, why exactly is he on your team? thank god shenanigans didn't have that sort of attitude about terrell davis, who also didn't do much in college. . . they can protect their binkie paxton all they like, but at some point they're probably gonna have to admit that the kid can't play, regardless of where he was drafted. . .

Klis told the am 760 guys that he was essentially told to shut up about Sloter. De-hype is the obvious take, but it also signals an iron commitment to Operation Pax Can Read.

[Tned]

Klis told the am 760 guys that he was essentially told to shut up about Sloter. De-hype is the obvious take, but it also signals an iron commitment to Operation Pax Can Read.

Interesting, I didn't hear that, but didn't listen much today.

[Canmore]

The problem with that is that they can't just sign some vet for however few weeks it takes Lynch to heal, then unceremoniously dump said vet: If he is on the roster Opening Day his FULL 2017 salary will be GUARANTEED. Even a backup punter is mandated about half a million if he has >3 accrued seasons, but we're not talking about a 4th string RB: A veteran NFL QB with starting experience. Even rejects like Oz command several million of cap space we won't have if we need depth when (not if) some other starter is out for a few weeks (or months, or the whole rest of the season) later.

Signing a vet for just a couple weeks until Lynch is healthy sounds good in theory, but in practice all we'd "gain" by releasing him a few weeks after signing him is a spot on the 53. In which case we might as well put Sloter in that spot, then demote him to the PS once Lynch is healthy.

Exactly.

[Shazam!]

Obviously id like to think that the Broncos brain trust knows best but this I question why. The kid looks fantastic and his arm is elastic. I know its only preseason but how could this performance be ignored?

[Northman]

What are the odds he makes the team?

How pissed? Like Chazoe type pissed or wet the bed kind of pissed?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

How pissed? Like Chazoe type pissed or wet the bed kind of pissed?

Both

[Joel]

Klis told the am 760 guys that he was essentially told to shut up about Sloter. De-hype is the obvious take, but it also signals an iron commitment to Operation Pax Can Read.
I'm embarrassed to say I hadn't thought of "de-hype," but it makes a lot of sense. It's not like opposing teams can send scouts to our practices or camp (though if there's any quasi-legal way, I'm sure Belicheat's doing it. ;)) So all they have on Sloter is tape of the tail end of three preseason games, his Pro Days (highest QB Wonderlic, just 1 MPH off the fastest throw, but a mediocre 40 in borrowed shoes on a gym floor) his college tape (most of a single season) and whatever our beat reporters publish.

Speaking of which: Some may recall a College Football Metrics article on Sloter as Hard Luck Case (http://www.collegefootballmetrics.com/members/the-surreal-story-of-2017-nfl-draft-qb-prospect-kyle-sloter/), but digging around just now I found an article on the same site by the same author on the same day representing itself as an actual scouting report (http://www.collegefootballmetrics.com/members/nfl-draft-2017-scouting-report-qb-kyle-sloter-no-colorado/) rather than an after school special about perseverance and positive attitude in this unpredictable world of ours. I don't know what to make of his "Subscribers know I predicted Garoppolo and Savage were the best of 2014 and Bortles was garbage" lead-in; I'm NOT a subscriber and DO know the perils of letting prognosticators pick successes to showcase while ignoring failures (I'm pretty sure there were >3 rookie QBs in 2014, after all.) I'm just throwing it out there because he crunched numbers on recent QBs to see whose college stats compare to Sloters (admittedly limited) numbers.

He also referenced Sloters highlight film (but made the link private for some reason) to note that many HCs and QBs minimize turnovers by throwing lots of deep passes to the sideline, which has the benefit of padding stats since missed passes tend to wind up in the stands, but Sloter throws lots of deep balls accurately over the middle.

The third pass in his highlight reel is a good example: A deep post where he rolled to his right before throwing left across his body, yet the pass still travels 30 yds in the air with tight spiral to the scoring receiver. It did tail back out a bit at the end, so the receiver had to slow up half a step (a pretty nice split second adjustment, really, since the ball was going straight until maybe half a second before he caught it.) Not saying it's Elway in his prime, but that's a long way to throw a football that accurately when you can't step into it because you're running the other way: That one was 100% arm.

That's followed by a nice QB keeper around right end for an untouched 25 yd TD, though some credit belongs to the TE making a decent downfield block that created a natural pick for two more defenders, but Sloter just flat outran the last one. The really impressive one is right after that: A blitzing LB comes through unblocked at the snap and LEVELS Sloter just before two more tacklers who beat their blocks join him—but just AFTER Sloter threw a 20 yd TD to the front pylon.

Next: Sloter DOES step into a throw 50 yds through the air right to a receiver at the spot where they lined up for the PAT on the next play. Also, WHAT IN THE ACTUAL :censored:, EASTERN WASHINGTON; IS BLINDING THE COACHES IN THE BOOTH PART OF YOUR GAMEPLAN?! I can't tell if that's a football field or a slaughterhouse floor.

That's just the first 5:00 of a 40:00 highlight reel most of ya'll may have seen already, I dunno; I rarely spend much time watching college highlight reels, so it could've been posted here two or three times without my noticing. But if not:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNzyzlbOYu8

So the question is: If you're Cleveland looking at that, our preseason games and a choice of DeShone Kizer, Oz or Kessler to run your offense, does Sloter reach our PS?

[Cugel]

The problem with that is that they can't just sign some vet for however few weeks it takes Lynch to heal, then unceremoniously dump said vet: If he is on the roster Opening Day his FULL 2017 salary will be GUARANTEED. Even a backup punter is mandated about half a million if he has >3 accrued seasons, but we're not talking about a 4th string RB: A veteran NFL QB with starting experience. Even rejects like Oz command several million of cap space we won't have if we need depth when (not if) some other starter is out for a few weeks (or months, or the whole rest of the season) later.

Signing a vet for just a couple weeks until Lynch is healthy sounds good in theory, but in practice all we'd "gain" by releasing him a few weeks after signing him is a spot on the 53. In which case we might as well put Sloter in that spot, then demote him to the PS once Lynch is healthy.

Those are all good points. Apparently they are letting Sloter play the entire 4th game. If he needs a break, they will put in Trevor who will stand back in the shotgun and hand the ball off, taking no risks.

I would put Paxton on IR and forget to activate him after 6 games, and keep Sloter as the backup. But, they don't think he's ready.

VJ almost promised that a vet would come in over the weekend.
Q: Will you be looking at Colin Kaepernick.

He said a lot of guys are going to get cut, "every option is going to be explored. Everything's possible right now, it's moving pieces to make things happen."

So, they are definitely not thinking of Sloter as a viable backup. They are NOT thinking that Sloter has a legitimate chance to start this season if Trevor is hurt.

[Buff]

Obviously id like to think that the Broncos brain trust knows best but this I question why. The kid looks fantastic and his arm is elastic. I know its only preseason but how could this performance be ignored?

This seems like the pertinent question to me. Are they just worried about his limited experience, or are his skills more limited than his preseason performances would suggest? Does he grasp the whole playbook? Can he read defenses effectively?

Certainly it would be better to stick with the guy who brings some continuity from camp and has been in our playbook for weeks - but there must be something to the idea that they don't feel he's ready. So then that makes me wonder - are they just being too risk averse and need to give the kid a chance to shine? Are they falling into the conventional wisdom trap that he needs more experience? Or are they legitimately seeing some limitations that we're not?

[Cugel]

Sorry Joel, but don't bother with your de-hype theory. Other teams use spies. Teams assume that at least 1 "fan" at every open practice is spying. Belicheat just took the practice that every team does, and in typical arrogant Patriots fashion and gave everybody a big middle finger and go way beyond with Spygate.

So, other teams all know what Sloter can do, and most of them don't care. "Nice developmental player." That's his category. If they sign Sloter off waivers, they would have an angry conversation with their personnel department who all did NOT rate him as a viable starter coming into the draft this April.

Not one NFL scout has changed his mind about Kyle Sloter. Most of them haven't changed their minds about Trevor, but that's another story.

So, what if Sloter plays the entire game this week, and plays well? Perhaps the Broncos have some competition signing him to the practice squad.

The problem is that Paxton stupidly keeps tucking and running whenever his first read isn't open - just what he was used to in college. Do that in the NFL and say Hi to Joey Bosa, or Kalil Mack. He's lucky his season isn't over the way he does that.

So, if he's going to miss the first 2 games they have to do something to pick up a veteran backup or keep Sloter on the 53. Looks like they will take a look at all the cuts and see if some veteran QB isn't available.

But, Joel is right that it's not as simple as "just sign a guy" because that guy isn't going to be given a chance to compete for a starting job. He's going to be cut in a couple of weeks. Little incentive for any established QB to sign here.

[GEM]

This seems like the pertinent question to me. Are they just worried about his limited experience, or are his skills more limited than his preseason performances would suggest? Does he grasp the whole playbook? Can he read defenses effectively?

Certainly it would be better to stick with the guy who brings some continuity from camp and has been in our playbook for weeks - but there must be something to the idea that they don't feel he's ready. So then that makes me wonder - are they just being too risk averse and need to give the kid a chance to shine? Are they falling into the conventional wisdom trap that he needs more experience? Or are they legitimately seeing some limitations that we're not?

Reading that...grasp the whole playbook, read defenses effectively...if they go by that, they might as well cut Lynch now cause he can't do either.

[Cugel]

This seems like the pertinent question to me. Are they just worried about his limited experience, or are his skills more limited than his preseason performances would suggest? Does he grasp the whole playbook? Can he read defenses effectively?

Certainly it would be better to stick with the guy who brings some continuity from camp and has been in our playbook for weeks - but there must be something to the idea that they don't feel he's ready. So then that makes me wonder - are they just being too risk averse and need to give the kid a chance to shine? Are they falling into the conventional wisdom trap that he needs more experience? Or are they legitimately seeing some limitations that we're not?

Chris Harris basically explained it when he talked about the defense they have been playing in the pre-season. He said "it's totally vanilla." When they play the Chargers it's going to be a totally different story. Suddenly, they are going to be dialing up the pressure, throwing exotic looks at the offense where they can't get a good read on the defensive alignment. Harris is eager to start the season because the "defense" they have been playing in the pre-season isn't even really "defense" as far as he's concerned. They're just warming up and getting ready for the regular season. Von has hardly seen the field at all, and he might as well be in bubble wrap as far as the team is concerned. Same thing for Shane and Shaqil who were injured but will be present for game one.

So, good against scrubs in the pre-season doesn't really tell you much (except that Paxton couldn't even look good against Scrubs so there's that). No defense is trying to take anything away from you in the pre-season. NO DC is analysing your game and trying to figure out what you can't do well and trying to force you to do that.

So, it's not surprising that if VJ is given a choice between a veteran like Paxton, and a rookie like Sloter he's choosing the vet as his backup.

I think the fans have just given up on Paxton and want to move on from him and have labelled him a bust, but the team has NOT. They plan on keeping developing Paxton in the hope he will ultimately pan out and nobody else is really getting a chance until next season. That includes Sloter.

[GEM]

If they bring in a vet who is on the 53 on day one, his entire year is guaranteed. For a team with about $9mil in cap space, dumb move for a couple of weeks when the early schedule is easier than the latter half. Let Sloter play backup and cut him when "the bust" comes back.

[Cugel]

So the question is: If you're Cleveland looking at that, our preseason games and a choice of DeShone Kizer, Oz or Kessler to run your offense, does Sloter reach our PS?


TAMPA -- DeShone Kizer clinched the Browns starting quarterback job Saturday night by passing his last big test in the dress rehearsal game here against the Bucs, sources told cleveland.com.

Kizer's number weren't great in the 13-9 victory, including a 28.2 rating, but he showed Jackson enough to beat out Brock Osweiler and Cody Kessler for the job and earn the opening day start against Pittsburgh Sept. 10 at FirstEnergy Stadium.

"I feel comfortable with him,'' Jackson said after the third preseason game here. "He has the right feel for me and for what I'm looking for.''

There's your answer. They just named Kizer as their starter. They are committed to him. Sounds loony to me, but they're the Browns. They do stuff like that all time.

The Broncos would probably be doing the same thing - naming Paxton as the starter based on some dubious game play - IF the Broncos were going to compete for the #1 overall pick instead of trying to get into the playoffs.

If you're going to suck anyway, might as well play the rookie, get him some experience and see what you have after a season.

And Brock never had a real chance to win the job. First they basically bought a first round pick with $16 M in cap space they weren't going to spend anyway. Second, they found that there was no trade market for Brock, so they were eating the money anyway. So, Brock is their backup - unless they can get something for him.

Some team will be desperate enough to want Osweiler and give them something for him eventually, or Kaiser will suck horribly enough that they have to put Brock in just to avoid crushing Kizer's confidence. (Like pulling the goalie in hockey when he gives up 5 goals in a period or something).

But, there's no point in starting Brock. He probably sucks as bad as Kizer and even if he doesn't, he's not in their long term plans, so there's no point starting him only to go 6-10 instead of 4-12 or something.

[Buff]

Chris Harris basically explained it when he talked about the defense they have been playing in the pre-season. He said "it's totally vanilla." When they play the Chargers it's going to be a totally different story. Suddenly, they are going to be dialing up the pressure, throwing exotic looks at the offense where they can't get a good read on the defensive alignment. Harris is eager to start the season because the "defense" they have been playing in the pre-season isn't even really "defense" as far as he's concerned. They're just warming up and getting ready for the regular season. Von has hardly seen the field at all, and he might as well be in bubble wrap as far as the team is concerned. Same thing for Shane and Shaqil who were injured but will be present for game one.

So, good against scrubs in the pre-season doesn't really tell you much (except that Paxton couldn't even look good against Scrubs so there's that). No defense is trying to take anything away from you in the pre-season. NO DC is analysing your game and trying to figure out what you can't do well and trying to force you to do that.

So, it's not surprising that if VJ is given a choice between a veteran like Paxton, and a rookie like Sloter he's choosing the vet as his backup.

I think the fans have just given up on Paxton and want to move on from him and have labelled him a bust, but the team has NOT. They plan on keeping developing Paxton in the hope he will ultimately pan out and nobody else is really getting a chance until next season. That includes Sloter.

Right but we're not debating Paxton vs. Sloter... I think it's clear that Paxton gets the backup role when he's healthy. We're debating Sloter vs. unnamed veteran QB signed off the street while Paxton is hurt.

[Cugel]

If they bring in a vet who is on the 53 on day one, his entire year is guaranteed. For a team with about $9mil in cap space, dumb move for a couple of weeks when the early schedule is easier than the latter half. Let Sloter play backup and cut him when "the bust" comes back.

That's my theory! At that point Gem, Sloter would almost certainly pass through waivers. Teams wouldn't be looking for a developmental QB in week 6 of the regular season. They might pick up a veteran if their starter was injured and they needed an experienced backup, but not a rookie.

But, they're not doing that. Personally, I think they will have no choice but to keep Sloter because they will have a hard time getting any veteran QB to come here for 2 weeks. And that's what the job really is. A couple weeks on the roster until Paxton gets healthy enough to play if they need him.

It would be so easy to do it right, they are just being stubborn.

First, put Booker and Carlos Henderson on IR. That opens up 2 roster spots, one for Sloter and one for Ridley. Then put Sloter on the 53 to start, but don't play him (obviously Trevor is supposed to play every snap). Then when Paxton is ready to come back week 3 cut Sloter and sign somebody off the practice squad.

Then in week 6 bring Booker back and decide whether to cut Jamal Charles or Ridley. Then sign Sloter back on the PS. Easy as long as Sloter doesn't blow his PS eligibility.

[Cugel]

Right but we're not debating Paxton vs. Sloter... I think it's clear that Paxton gets the backup role when he's healthy. We're debating Sloter vs. unnamed veteran QB signed off the street while Paxton is hurt.

I was trying to explain why VJ isn't comfortable with Sloter as his backup at all. The answer is "he's a rookie who has never faced regular season NFL defenses and we have no idea what we'd see if he did." With a veteran, presumably you know what he will be able to do against real opposition.

Usually not much or the guy wouldn't be available in the first place.

[Buff]

I was trying to explain why VJ isn't comfortable with Sloter as his backup at all. The answer is "he's a rookie who has never faced regular season NFL defenses and we have no idea what we'd see if he did." With a veteran, presumably you know what he will be able to do against real opposition.

Usually not much or the guy wouldn't be available in the first place.

Right and I understand the conventional wisdom... My post was more about "Is the conventional wisdom actually correct, and we're getting ahead of ourselves over a couple of preseason performances against backup defenders playing a vanilla scheme?" Which is your contention...

OR

Is there something to the idea that this kid seems to possess some intangibles, and if we're going to realize most of our downside signing some crappy veteran backup, should we just give him a chance?

I think most of us lean towards the latter. But we also don't have to answer for the decision when he shits the bed in primetime and throws 4 INTs with a lockerroom full of pro bowlers on defense.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Right but we're not debating Paxton vs. Sloter... I think it's clear that Paxton gets the backup role when he's healthy. We're debating Sloter vs. unnamed veteran QB signed off the street while Paxton is hurt.

There was a Denver "insider" a week or two ago who (don't remember who he was) stated the locker room felt like Sloter had a better grasp on the playbook than the other 2 quarterbacks.

[BroncoWave]

It seems pretty obvious to me that we're trying to hide him on the PS, hence the "de-hyping". Until another team tries to sign him, I'm not really concerned.

[Buff]

It seems pretty obvious to me that we're trying to hide him on the PS, hence the "de-hyping". Until another team tries to sign him, I'm not really concerned.

Right but the discussion has changed with Paxton's injury. Now we need a backup for week 1 - which makes his prospects of making the 53 man roster a real possibility. It also means we have to keep 3 QBs at the expense of another roster spot.

[BroncoWave]

Right but the discussion has changed with Paxton's injury. Now we need a backup for week 1 - which makes his prospects of making the 53 man roster a real possibility. It also means we have to keep 3 QBs at the expense of another roster spot.

It's also a distinct possibility that Sloter is the latest "great undrafted hope" that fans are just sure could be the next TD or Rod Smith, but just winds up being nothing more than camp fodder. If he's still not on the 53 despite the injury to Lynch, then that would make me lean more in that direction.

[BroncoWave]

If only there were a competent vet on the market who has led a team to a Super Bowl and is probably better than any QB we have anyway. :behindsofa:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It's also a distinct possibility that Sloter is the latest "great undrafted hope" that fans are just sure could be the next TD or Rod Smith, but just winds up being nothing more than camp fodder. If he's still not on the 53 despite the injury to Lynch, then that would make me lean more in that direction.

You might be right, but I have been watching Denver for over 3 decades and I have never "hyped" an undrafted player. I was hopeful Wesley Duke would turn into something, but I never claimed to see something in him that told me could start on Sundays within a couple of years.

[Buff]

If only there were a competent vet on the market who has led a team to a Super Bowl and is probably better than any QB we have anyway. :behindsofa:

Probably better at what? Running fast and having a really loud and intimidating cadence? Or throwing the ball from the pocket?

[BroncoWave]

You might be right, but I have been watching Denver for over 3 decades and I have never "hyped" an undrafted player. I was hopeful Wesley Duke would turn into something, but I never claimed to see something in him that told me could start on Sundays within a couple of years.

I actually bought into Wesley Duke too. I thought that guy was gonna be good. :lol:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I actually bought into Wesley Duke too. I thought that guy was gonna be good. :lol:

Well, in all fairness he didn't fail due to lack of skill. He had a major injury during the preseason he never came back from

[Joel]

But, Joel is right that it's not as simple as "just sign a guy" because that guy isn't going to be given a chance to compete for a starting job. He's going to be cut in a couple of weeks. Little incentive for any established QB to sign here.
*shrugs* I'd cheerfully take a GUARANTEED $4-5 million for a fortnight of showing up to practice, watching film and holding Siemians clipboard before I was off to the next team whose starting QB injury left them desperate for even a mediocre vet to fill in temporarily. But if I'm Elway and Joseph, I just give that job to Sloter, because when I release HIM the third week of September he goes to the PS without a big cap hit hanging over me the rest of the year.

As for camp spies, well, the quality of their notoriety's going to be directly proportional to the quality of their intel, so anyone our GM, coaches, players and scouts with down time can't pick out of a crowd isn't exactly going to be Gil Brandt. The NFLs GMs probably get a lot more useful information BSing each other on the phone.


If they bring in a vet who is on the 53 on day one, his entire year is guaranteed. For a team with about $9mil in cap space, dumb move for a couple of weeks when the early schedule is easier than the latter half. Let Sloter play backup and cut him when "the bust" comes back.
Not sure what's so hard to grasp there. I understand (too well) the view that "NO ONE on the current roster is a decent franchise QB prospect," but 1) no one who's already failed with a(t least o)n(e)other team is any more likely to be that guy, but 2) we'd still have to pay any of them handsomely to find out for sure and, most importantly, 3) we're NOT seeking insurance against Siemian and Lynch washing out, just insurance against Siemian getting hurt before Lynch is healthy.

Even if we WERE looking for a Plan D successor to Elway, guys who already had and blew their shot(s) starting for another team are known quantities, while Sloter's a huge unknown, and the few things that are known about him (i.e. his arm, mechanics, mentality and accuracy) are purely positive.


There's your answer. They just named Kizer as their starter. They are committed to him. Sounds loony to me, but they're the Browns. They do stuff like that all time.
I was aware of their announcement when I typed that. Kizer's no ones first choice for franchise QB, and most likely to become the latest entry in the seemingly interminable volumes of Why Notre Dame Players Generally and QBs in Particular Are More Absurdly Overrated than Even SEC Alumni. If they had a better choice, they'd take it, and there's no reason to believe Sloter wouldn't qualify. This isn't a case of some feel good offseason story all the scouts and coaches have seen and rejected, it's a guy they're only just now getting the chance to see, and many are taking notice: Else he wouldn't be on our roster (nor anyones) at all.


And Brock never had a real chance to win the job. First they basically bought a first round pick with $16 M in cap space they weren't going to spend anyway. Second, they found that there was no trade market for Brock, so they were eating the money anyway. So, Brock is their backup - unless they can get something for him.
Right: Brock's that pricey-but-putrid failed former starter we'd be looking at to backup Siemian while Lynch heals up, simply because putting Sloter on the 53 for a couple weeks and $465K is "too risky." Not that it'd cost anything like the insane 2017 salary Houston guaranteed Oz, but the Bears are paying Sanchez as much to ride pine "just in case (God forbid!)" as Dallas did a year ago: $2M, which I believe is about what we were paying before realizing even a 7th round rookie can and did outplay him.


Some team will be desperate enough to want Osweiler and give them something for him eventually, or Kaiser will suck horribly enough that they have to put Brock in just to avoid crushing Kizer's confidence. (Like pulling the goalie in hockey when he gives up 5 goals in a period or something).

But, there's no point in starting Brock. He probably sucks as bad as Kizer and even if he doesn't, he's not in their long term plans, so there's no point starting him only to go 6-10 instead of 4-12 or something.
So you DO understand why paying someone just like Brock to do exactly the same thing but for JUST TWO WEEKS doesn't make sense for us; hooray, consensus. :tongue:

[Joel]

If only there were a competent vet on the market who has led a team to a Super Bowl and is probably better than any QB we have anyway. :behindsofa:
You realize he didn't take over and "lead them to a SB" until the year AFTER they only lost the NFCCG to one of Elis Cinderella teams in OT, right? It's more likely SF threw away their SB by trading Smith, who's still starting and competing for championships while Kaepernicks dumpster fire has decided it's better off without him. It's not like Smith is a bad QB; and hasn't had a decent WR since he left SF (his best, by far and for several years now, is a TE.) There's an argument he's NEVER had a good WR: Tell the truth, how great has Michael Crabtree looked since Smith left SF? Not as good as Anquan Boldin looked before arriving....

I know he plays for the Chiefs, so folks around here love dogging Smith every week of every year, but every time we play him I keep thinking the same thing: Thank God his WRs refuse to catch all those balls he keeps dropping in their laps.

[NightTerror218]

So,many times camp fodder looks amazing in preseason and flame out. He is going to PS. They drafted Kelly to be QB3 and or lynch bust protection. .

[dogfish]

it also signals an iron commitment to Operation Pax Can Read.

lmao! pretty much this. . .




There was a Denver "insider" a week or two ago who (don't remember who he was) stated the locker room felt like Sloter had a better grasp on the playbook than the other 2 quarterbacks.

it was tyler polumbus. . .

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

lmao! pretty much this. . .





it was tyler polumbus. . .

I thought it was Tyler, but didn't want to name drop without being certain.

[Joel]

So,many times camp fodder looks amazing in preseason and flame out. He is going to PS. They drafted Kelly to be QB3 and or lynch bust protection. .
I deeply doubt that part about Kelly. Realistically, Kelly was drafted "a single spot above" Sloter, because everyone after Kelly went to whoever dialed their phone fastest. The differences are that Sloter's actually playing right now and his attitude is the exact opposite of Kellys: Where one is entitled, irresponsible and even DANGEROUS, the other worked his ass off doing anything and everything he can to contribute however he can. That's why Draft Day found one of them with a degree and a job offer from a financial firm, and the other just waiting by his phone hoping to burst into tears if someone—ANYONE—called: "HELLO?!!! Oh, hi, gramma; no, nothing yet.... :("

I'm not saying Sloter's a future HoFer, but I'd bet on him before Kelly, which is pretty sad considering which one already has a HoFer in the family.

[Tned]

Tyler Polumbus mentioned the wonderlic so a quick Google returned this blurb from Mile High Report.


The new offensive scheme is particularly exciting to Sloter, an athletic gunslinger who clocked as the third-fastest passer (58 mph) and the second fastest quarterback (4.6 in the 40) in the 2017 NFL Draft class. And with a 38 on the Wonderlic - best of all Combine QBs - Sloter has enjoyed being a student of the new scheme.

https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/7/25/16017428/denver-broncos-roster-2017-kyle-sloter-quarterback

[GEM]

Tyler Polumbus mentioned the wonderlic so a quick Google returned this blurb from Mile High Report.



https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/7/25/16017428/denver-broncos-roster-2017-kyle-sloter-quarterback

I liked what Polumbus was saying there. Doesn't give much to the wonderlic score outside of qb's. For qb's it's important. Lynch scored what on his again? And he isn't grasping the playbook or reading a defense. I think there is something to that.

[Joel]

Tyler Polumbus mentioned the wonderlic so a quick Google returned this blurb from Mile High Report.

https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/7/25/16017428/denver-broncos-roster-2017-kyle-sloter-quarterback
For whatever it's worth, that College Football Metrics article claimed Sloters ball speed was also second among rookies, not third, and a mere 1 mph off the #1 mark. The biggest thing is that this guy has lived the whole "Be ready; you'll only get ONE shot—maybe not even that!" thing throughout college, and it shows. He's humble, yet confident; combined with a big arm and quick feet, there's not much more an NFL starter needs. Accuracy and vision, but Sloter's shown those too.

Getting lucky enough to lock down the starting AND backup QB spot with just a 7th rounder and an UDFA is the kind of thing GMs dream of: I'd really hate to see us blow that just because of a fixation on Lynchs draft position or Kellys pedigree. Sloter won't reach the PS now; there are too many QB-desperate teams with no better options who'll figure he's more promising and MUCH cheaper than keeping say, Gabbert, Kessler or one of the McCowns waiting in the wings for their current starter to blow it.

Drew Bledsoe wasn't just a 1st round pick, he was the #1 overall pick: He still lost the starting job to a 6th rounder, then wound up starting for his old coach Bill Parcells in Dallas—until benched for an UDFA. EVERYONE who makes an NFL roster has the physical tools; the question is who has the brains and maturity to make the most of them. We can say Sloter only faced backup defenses, but the bottom line remains that our rookie UDFA looked much better than our sophomore 1st rounder with the same 2nd and 3rd string teammates against the same 2nd and 3rd string defenders.

[Nomad]

I would put my money on Sloter being a successful QB before Kelly ever would be. You can't fix the mental midget that Kelly is.

[Simple Jaded]

I like how the Broncos pretend that they're SO GOOD at other positions that they can't keep 3 QB's. Their depth isn't what it used to be.

[Canmore]

I liked what Polumbus was saying there. Doesn't give much to the wonderlic score outside of qb's. For qb's it's important. Lynch scored what on his again? And he isn't grasping the playbook or reading a defense. I think there is something to that.

Lynch scored a 17 which is hardly better than guessing.

[Joel]

I like how the Broncos pretend that they're SO GOOD at other positions that they can't keep 3 QB's. Their depth isn't what it used to be.
Maybe it's the opposite: We can't keep 3 QBs because our line's so awful we must keep 9 blockers just to have some hopes 6 of them are decent. There's still a looot of uncertainty there. Does anyone actually know who our mauling RG is yet? What will Bolles be, if anything, and how long will it take? Can Watson stay healthy? Will Paradis be the same after surgery on BOTH hips, and how long will that take? The only thing that seems certain is Leary starting at LG.

We need lots of spare LBs, and not just because of the injuries to Shaq and Ray (though those don't help.) I'm not sure we have even two legit coverage LBs on the whole roster, which I guess is OK if we play nickel all the time, but sub-optimal for a true 3-4.

Our dimeback, first alternate CB and STs ace of the past few seasons is a Ram now; can any CBs behind him on the depth chart step up? Dunno; the top four were all so good the rest have barely played. We're keeping tons of WRs for much the same reason: Lots of decent depth, but no one has separated himself as the obvious reliable #3.

It's hard to get down to 53. That said, the QB is still the single most important position on the team (if only because the offensive line isn't a SINGLE position, but five) and we have at least as much uncertainty there as anywhere else, especially with Lynch hurt. Odds are pretty good either he or Siemian will be gone by this time next year, so who'll be backing whichever one of them is starting? Say what we want about Oz, if we hadn't had at least a decent backup we wouldn't be 2015 Champs.

[Simple Jaded]

It's not the opposite, the Broncos think they have too many players they can't do without. They're what I like to call...wrong.

[BroncoWave]

I would put my money on Sloter being a successful QB before Kelly ever would be. You can't fix the mental midget that Kelly is.

The emergence of Sloter could spell bad news for Kelly. Luckily for Kelly he'll be safe on IR this year, but he'll really have to show he's ready next year to even have a shot.

[BroncoJoe]

Sloter looks like the 1st round pick.

Lynch looks like the UDFA.

[BroncoWave]

While I don't like to buy into hype against preseason scrubs, I will admit that dart he threw across his body was a throw that not many NFL QBs can make. If he can throw that consistently, he'll start in the league.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

While I don't like to buy into hype against preseason scrubs, I will admit that dart he threw across his body was a throw that not many NFL QBs can make. If he can throw that consistently, he'll start in the league.

38 yards across his body on the move

[BroncoJoe]

While I don't like to buy into hype against preseason scrubs, I will admit that dart he threw across his body was a throw that not many NFL QBs can make. If he can throw that consistently, he'll start in the league.

He's also playing with scrubs. Not just against. An important distinction.

[BroncoWave]

38 yards across his body on the move

Yeah that was a pretty throw to watch. That was some Mike Vick/John Elway/Brett Favre type arm talent on that throw.

[BroncoWave]

He's also playing with scrubs. Not just against. An important distinction.

And for all we know he may be a scrub himself. :D

[BeefStew25]

The NFL means Not For Long!

[Rex]

He's also playing with scrubs. Not just against. An important distinction.

You're a scrub baldy !

[PatriotsGuy]

The NFL means Not For Long!

Settle down Jerry

[Rex]

Settle down Jerry

You shut your filthy mouth and watch your tone!

[Joel]

It's not the opposite, the Broncos think they have too many players they can't do without. They're what I like to call...wrong.
Well, I hope you're wrong about them being wrong, but fear you're right... glub.



While I don't like to buy into hype against preseason scrubs, I will admit that dart he threw across his body was a throw that not many NFL QBs can make. If he can throw that consistently, he'll start in the league.

38 yards across his body on the move
Did it twice last year (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNzyzlbOYu8), that I know of; I haven't had a chance to watch the whole thing yet, but there's a pair like that in the first six plays of his highlight reel.

[Tned]

The emergence of Sloter could spell bad news for Kelly. Luckily for Kelly he'll be safe on IR this year, but he'll really have to show he's ready next year to even have a shot.

Could be, but at the same time, if Lynch doesn't show improvement, it might be a three man battle (Siemian, Sloter and Kelly) for two spots next year. Or it could be a four way battle for two or three spots. Sounds like Elway/VJ's preference is two QBs. Over the years, different Denver HC's have leaned towards different numbers of QBs on the roster.

[Joel]

Could be, but at the same time, if Lynch doesn't show improvement, it might be a three man battle (Siemian, Sloter and Kelly) for two spots next year.
That's kind of what I've been thinking: Lynchs injury came at a really bad time, because he's running out of second chances fast, and Sloter's play thus far is only speeding up the clock. I don't care how much physical talent he has or how much raw development he needs, if a 1st round pick's not starting by year 3, he's a bust. Trade him to the next QB-needy McDumbass or O'Brien convinced they know where another coach went wrong with a talented young QB; maybe salvage a starter somewhere else.

[PatriotsGuy]

You shut your filthy mouth and watch your tone!

Ok so no Glanville references.

[BeefStew25]

Ok so no Glanville references.

I drove him around for five days in '99 once. He is a jackass.

[Joel]

I drove him around for five days in '99 once. He is a jackass.
You had to drive him around for five whole days to realize that? But he was OUR jackass! <3

[Canmore]

Sloter looks like the 1st round pick.

Lynch looks like the UDFA.

Lynch would give UDFA's a bad name.

[Hawgdriver]

Sloter looks like the 1st round pick.

Lynch looks like the UDFA.

If this film was available prior to 2017 draft, Sloter is taken top 15 imo.

[BeefStew25]

His mom looked hot.

[Joel]

If this film was available prior to 2017 draft, Sloter is taken top 15 imo.

New York Jets Depth Chart
Quarterback


J. McCown (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3609/josh-mccown)
C. Hackenberg (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3057986/christian-hackenberg)
B. Petty (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2466005/bryce-petty)

Cleveland Browns Depth Chart
Quarterback


D. Kizer (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3129302/deshone-kizer)
B. Osweiler (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/14879/brock-osweiler)
C. Kessler (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2577243/cody-kessler)

San Francisco 49ers Depth Chart
Quarterback


B. Hoyer (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/12477/brian-hoyer)
C. Beathard (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2979520/c.j.-beathard)
M. Barkley (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/15948/matt-barkley)

Jacksonville Jaguars Depth Chart
Quarterback


B. Bortles (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/16724/blake-bortles)
C. Henne (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/11291/chad-henne)
B. Allen (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2574511/brandon-allen)


No WAY this kid's on PS. If nothing else, someone will snatch him up as insurance; since we already have him under exclusive contract, it might as well be us. Good grief, the Colts are heading into Opening Day with SCOTT TOLZIEN STARTING! Who thinks that'll happen if Sloter's available...?

If you're Arizona and Palmer gets hurt yet again, who do you want, Sloter or Drew Stanton/Blaine Gabbert? If Matty Ice goes down, Schaub, Chris Simms' kid brother or something called an "Alek Torgersen"? If Flacco's out, you really wanna roll with Ryan Mallett—does HE? We're not even out of the Bs yet, btw.

[slim]

I drove him around for five days in '99 once. He is a jackass.

That must have been exhausting.

[Tned]

https://twitter.com/MikeKlis/status/904052159796305920

[Joel]

Madness. Y'know, the Jags and Browns have lots of cap space too; maybe if we work really hard we can be like them someday.

[WARHORSE]

My thought is theyre trying to sneak him onto the PS.....if someone tries to sign him.....Broncos will match and bring him aboard.

[Tned]

My thought is theyre trying to sneak him onto the PS.....if someone tries to sign him.....Broncos will match and bring him aboard.

They are going to try and get him on, but I don't think there is much sneaking about it with him playing the fourth preseason game, being the talk of Denver media for a week, being the second highest rated passer in preseason, etc.

[Ziggy]

My thought is theyre trying to sneak him onto the PS.....if someone tries to sign him.....Broncos will match and bring him aboard.

If he is claimed on waivers, he's gone. There's nothing the Broncos could do to keep him then.

[Tned]

If he is claimed on waivers, he's gone. There's nothing the Broncos could do to keep him then.

If he clears waivers, he could be gone, because he then gets to choose which practice squad to join, if any other team offers to sign him to theirs. He's basically a free agent once he clears waivers.

[Northman]

I could see San Fran, Cleveland, New Orleans, or Arizona looking at him.

[Valar Morghulis]

I am really disheartened by the moves today

[Shazam!]

My thought is theyre trying to sneak him onto the PS.....if someone tries to sign him.....Broncos will match and bring him aboard.

I pray youre right War, because I dont understand this. I am trusting in Elway, but... I am not happy.

[Tned]

I am really disheartened by the moves today

I'll grant you that the Ward one is mildly surprising, but there is nothing really shocking about what they did and this stuff happens all the time and has happened on Broncos cut down day for decades.

Let's see how it plays out before you get to disheartened.

[slim]

I am really disheartened by the moves today

Which ones?

[Valar Morghulis]

Which ones?

Ward and Sloter, obvs, but it's not just that, it's what other teams are doing

Richardson to Seattle
Maybe ward to Oakland

Just seems like we are getting worse, or at least accepting this year is a lost cause while other teams prepare for a super bowl run

[Ziggy]

If he clears waivers, he could be gone, because he then gets to choose which practice squad to join, if any other team offers to sign him to theirs. He's basically a free agent once he clears waivers.



Kyle Sloter‏
@KyleSloter

Thank you to bronco country for all the support. Hopefully I'll be able to stick around in Denver. Next 24 hrs will be interesting.

We'll see.

[Tned]

Ward and Sloter, obvs, but it's not just that, it's what other teams are doing

Richardson to Seattle
Maybe ward to Oakland

Just seems like we are getting worse, or at least accepting this year is a lost cause while other teams prepare for a super bowl run

I think the opposite, the Broncos are preparing for a super bowl run and want their best 53 men on the roster.

[Northman]

Ward and Sloter, obvs, but it's not just that, it's what other teams are doing

Richardson to Seattle
Maybe ward to Oakland

Just seems like we are getting worse, or at least accepting this year is a lost cause while other teams prepare for a super bowl run

Everything they seem to be doing just screams rebuilding.

[slim]

Ward and Sloter, obvs, but it's not just that, it's what other teams are doing

Richardson to Seattle
Maybe ward to Oakland

Just seems like we are getting worse, or at least accepting this year is a lost cause while other teams prepare for a super bowl run

Yeah, its hard to sit back and watch other teams make splash moves. But a lot of times splash moves don't pay off in the end.

I'm bummed about Ward too. Loved watching him play.

[Valar Morghulis]

I think the opposite, the Broncos are preparing for a super bowl run and want their best 53 men on the roster.

I am usually optimistic, but I can't see how cutting ward makes us better.

[Northman]

Yeah, its hard to sit back and watch other teams make splash moves. But a lot of times splash moves don't pay off in the end.

I'm bummed about Ward too. Loved watching him play.


The way that Denver is going in terms of player personnel is very far removed from what Denver did in the late 90's and when Denver went after Manning. As you said other teams are loading up with vets and players with more experience for SB runs. Nothing Denver has done this offseason has shown they are loading up for a SB run. lmao

[Tned]

Everything they seem to be doing just screams rebuilding.

Really? I'm not seeing that at all. For instance, if that's the case, you would keep Sloter. Might keep a Raymoind.

I've seen zero rebuild signs.

[Northman]

Really? I'm not seeing that at all. For instance, if that's the case, you would keep Sloter. Might keep a Raymoind.

I've seen zero rebuild signs.

Em no, they already have 2 young QB's in Siemian and Lynch. They are already young there.

[Tned]

Em no, they already have 2 young QB's in Siemian and Lynch. They are already young there.

Ok, so the only cut that makes it look like a rebuilt is Ward? If just offing vets, then Barbre will be cut and I'm sure several others that have been brought on only to win this year, Demato Peko, etc.

It might just be that with the injuries and age, the Broncos think Simmons and Park is a better option right now.

[slim]

The way that Denver is going in terms of player personnel is very far removed from what Denver did in the late 90's and when Denver went after Manning. As you said other teams are loading up with vets and players with more experience for SB runs. Nothing Denver has done this offseason has shown they are loading up for a SB run. lmao

I tend to agree. They know they don't have a QB on the team that can get it done. It's why they gave Lynch so much time/opportunity to show some progress. Now they really have no choice but to go full rebuild mode. I guess they can pretend like they are a SB caliber team for a few weeks, but I don't think they really believe that.

[Northman]

I tend to agree. They know they don't have a QB on the team that can get it done. It's why they gave Lynch so much time/opportunity to show some progress. Now they really have no choice but to go full rebuild mode. I guess they can pretend like they are a SB caliber team for a few weeks, but I don't think they really believe that.

We also have a brand new coach. If we were going for a SB Kubes would still be here.

[Tned]

@CecilLammey
now
I can confirm through sources that multiple teams have expressed interest in Kyle Sloter. #Broncos @1043TheFan

[weazel]

disappointing

[Tned]

disappointing

Agreed, but not surprising, before Lynch injury, VJ already announced they planned to waive him.

[Nomad]

Didn't realize Sloter was cut. I wish him success wherever he goes.

[CoachChaz]

Just seems to me that the team feels a Stewart/Simmons combo is better than a Stewart/Ward combo. Especially considering Ward's shortcomings in the passing game, along with his age, injuries, etc. Combined with the emergence of Carter...it makes sense from a personnel standpoint. And the rest of the team will get over it fast.

Sloter is just a UDFA with 320 career college passing attempts. no loss there at all.

[weazel]

So sloter is fielding offers from other teams while the broncos are signing a guy that shit on this franchise and nobody else wants

[Northman]

So sloter is fielding offers from other teams while the broncos are signing a guy that shit on this franchise and nobody else wants

Makes perfect sense.

[Simple Jaded]

I am usually optimistic, but I can't see how cutting ward makes us better.

Scary version? Maybe the coaches are tinkering with the defense so bad that Ward just doesn't fit.

[Northman]

Scary version? Maybe the coaches are tinkering with the defense so bad that Ward just doesn't fit.

Correct.

Thats what you do when rebuilding.

[Simple Jaded]

Correct.

Thats what you do when rebuilding.

I think the notion of rebuilding went right out the window with signing Proweiler.

[Northman]

I think the notion of rebuilding went right out the window with signing Proweiler.

Em no. He's a backup and thats being generous.

[Simple Jaded]

Em no. He's a backup and thats being generous.

Exactly, not saying he's anything but, just saying they're scared to death of going into a regular season game with just Siemian. A rebuilding team doesn't care if their starter gets hurt and they have to start a rookie, in fact they'd probably welcome that.

Broncos were dead set on going with just 2 QB's, to me signing Brent now means they haven't given up on anything.

Btw, all along we were told that they wanted to go with just 2 QB's, me thinks maybe they were planning on Brent getting released the whole time.

[Simple Jaded]

Brent Osweiler is the only former player that Elway has welcomed back, iirc.

[slim]

Brent Osweiler is the only former player that Elway has welcomed back, iirc.

Then he must be special.

[Shazam!]

If Sloter comes out and lughts the League on fire I swear idk what ill do

[Northman]

Exactly, not saying he's anything but, just saying they're scared to death of going into a regular season game with just Siemian. A rebuilding team doesn't care if their starter gets hurt and they have to start a rookie, in fact they'd probably welcome that.

Broncos were dead set on going with just 2 QB's, to me signing Brent now means they haven't given up on anything.

Btw, all along we were told that they wanted to go with just 2 QB's, me thinks maybe they were planning on Brent getting released the whole time.


Which is why its probably JE's master plan to remove Siemian and put Brock in as the QOTF.

[slim]

Which is why its probably JE's master plan to remove Siemian and put Brock in as the QOTF.

I would rather roll with Siemian.

[Simple Jaded]

Siemian is better than Brent.

[Northman]

I would rather roll with Siemian.

:lol:

[Joel]

Which is why its probably JE's master plan to remove Siemian and put Brock in as the QOTF.
Well, he doesn't have that meddling Kubiaks precious 7th rounder interfering with destiny anymore ;) so it's inevitable: Brock Osweiler is our Once and Future QB.

[slim]

Siemian is better than Brent.

Sloter is better than Brent.

[Northman]

Sloter is better than Brent.

Probably.

[ShaneFalco]

oz is ******* cancer. And elway just gave it to the entire city