Right tackle

[broncofaninfla]

Is anybody else concerned with the Right Tackle position? Both Watson and Stephenson have been awful in pass protection two games into preseason. Watson is an ok run blocker but awful at pass protection. Stephenson is just plain awful at both. Lang looks better than either of them but against 3rd string defenses. I hate to say it but if Denver doesn't add another RT soon we will have yet another year with the RT position being a huge liability.

[Tned]

Is anybody else concerned with the Right Tackle position? Both Watson and Stephenson have been awful in pass protection two games into preseason. Watson is an ok run blocker but awful at pass protection. Stephenson is just plain awful at both. Lang looks better than either of them but against 3rd string defenses. I hate to say it but if Denver doesn't add another RT soon we will have yet another year with the RT position being a huge liability.

I don't think Watson has been awful. I would have to rewatch and focus on him, but I know he gave up the sack early (along with Garcia allowing inside pressure), but think he's been mostly solid since. I know someone posted that the Broncos right side graded out very well (maybe tops) throughout the whole NFL in the second week.

[Hawgdriver]

Is anybody else concerned with the Right Tackle position? Both Watson and Stephenson have been awful in pass protection two games into preseason. Watson is an ok run blocker but awful at pass protection. Stephenson is just plain awful at both. Lang looks better than either of them but against 3rd string defenses. I hate to say it but if Denver doesn't add another RT soon we will have yet another year with the RT position being a huge liability.

I'm concerned.

[Ziggy]

Watson will be fine as long as he's healthy. That's always been his biggest issue.

[dogfish]

hugely concerned. . . it's going to be a giant black hole of suck once again. . .

[Slick]

Me too. I wasn't a fan of the Watson signing.

[broncofaninfla]

I watched both games and watched the play of the OL in slow mo (I had a lot of free time this past weekend), Watson gets beat by speed rush and misdirection's often, pretty solid on bull rushes and run blocking. Stephenson is straight up awful in all aspects. McGovern has been rock solid at center which surprised me. When Paradis makes it back I'd like to see McGovern compete at LG. Leary solid, Garcia inconsistent, Barber slightly better than Garcia. Bolles football strength is weak at this stage, very obvious on bull rushes, has quick feet and ands though. Bolles first FL snap would have been a sack if Watson wasn't beaten so badly. Ty played great against the Bears but had some issues against the Niners but still better than years past.

All in all it seems like a better OL this year, especially run blocking but what I've seen at RT concerns me.

[broncofaninfla]

Me too. I wasn't a fan of the Watson signing.

Now I know why my Raider buddies were so happy. Mack is going to destroy Watson.

[Cugel]

The Broncos have serious problems at both OT positions. Bolles looks like he will be good - when he learns how to play in the league, but in his first game he had 4 holding penalties, which in a regular season game would go a long way towards guaranteeing a loss.

RT has been pretty bad. Watson has been surprisingly inept. If he plays like this the whole season, we have the RT equivalent of Russell Okung.

As for Max Garcia, he's on the bubble. They are keeping 8 or 10 OL. If it's 8 he's gone. VJ just said that he values versatility - backups who can play multiple positions on the OL.

Well, that's NOT Max Garcia. He can only play LG, he was tried at RG and sucked so bad they had to move Leary away from his natural position at LG to give Garcia a chance. Only he fumbled the ball.

I assumed Schofield would be cut because he's Schofield. But, my attitude seems to be wrong. Schofield can play both RT and G in a pinch and that would probably make him more valuable than Garcia, if Garcia isn't starting. And he's not.

[Simple Jaded]

Bolles is an upgrade at LT.

#BollesIsAnUpgrade@LT

[Simple Jaded]

Trade for Trenton Brown, go back and watch 49ers v Broncos, he just don't fit ZBS.

[Tned]

Trade for Trenton Brown, go back and watch 49ers v Broncos, he just don't fit ZBS.

Not going to happen. Tackles are going to be Boles and Watson. The only question on the line is Garcia/Barbre.

Hopefully, the tackles are better than last year (it would be hard not to be).

[Simple Jaded]

Not going to happen. Tackles are going to be Boles and Watson. The only question on the line is Garcia/Barbre.

Hopefully, the tackles are better than last year (it would be hard not to be).

I like Watson, I don't like Garcia.

[Cugel]

I like Watson, I don't like Garcia.

Well, Watson has played well in the league before (during the healthy 1/2 of his career), but Garcia has never played particularly well. He's done great in the run game at times, but at other times he would get out of synch with his linemates which is always a disaster.

They gave him every chance to win the starting LG job and it doesn't look like he did it. We'll see in the final two pre-season games, but he's definitely on the bubble, and Brandon Stokely just said on the radio "Uh, oh!" when assessing his chances of making the team. "If you're not starting you have to be versatile. That's the rule of the NFL. If you're starting you can get away with not playing more than 1 position, but if you're backing up, you need to be capable of playing multiple positions. So, if Garcia can't do that that's a problem." [VJ said publicly that Garcia "is a left guard" and that they have no intention of ever renewing the failed experiment at RG with him.]

[Simple Jaded]

Well, Watson has played well in the league before (during the healthy 1/2 of his career), but Garcia has never played particularly well. He's done great in the run game at times, but at other times he would get out of synch with his linemates which is always a disaster.

They gave him every chance to win the starting LG job and it doesn't look like he did it. We'll see in the final two pre-season games, but he's definitely on the bubble, and Brandon Stokely just said on the radio "Uh, oh!" when assessing his chances of making the team. "If you're not starting you have to be versatile. That's the rule of the NFL. If you're starting you can get away with not playing more than 1 position, but if you're backing up, you need to be capable of playing multiple positions. So, if Garcia can't do that that's a problem." [VJ said publicly that Garcia "is a left guard" and that they have no intention of ever renewing the failed experiment at RG with him.]

Schofield will be the swing G I bet, and while Garcia can (and probably should) play C there's no use for that with McGovern finally filling that role.

Sampro, Schofield and Stephenson are versatile. I'd prefer they keep Turner over Sampro.

However, the problem right now with Garcia is shit awareness, making C a shit idea.

[dogfish]

Bolles is an upgrade at LT.

#BollesIsAnUpgrade@LT

i hope that he will be. . . when do you think this be more reality, and less hashbrown?

[Cugel]

Schofield will be the swing G I bet, and while Garcia can (and probably should) play C there's no use for that with McGovern finally filling that role.

Sampro, Schofield and Stephenson are versatile. I'd prefer they keep Turner over Sampro.

However, the problem right now with Garcia is shit awareness, making C a shit idea.

He's not a center at all of course. He's a LG pure and simple. He can't play any other position, according to Vance Joseph who was asked in his presser and answered that "he's a left guard and we are playing him at LG." And ESPECIALLY not C which is the most intellectually demanding because you have to know the assignments of the whole offense in your head and give the OL assignments according to your reading of what the defense is doing, all of this while preparing to snap the ball and then block his man in the center of the line. Doing all that at the same time is not easy. I would imagine the mental part of it is the hardest.

Most OL guys are not cut out to be the natural leader of the OL. Centers have to be that. Paradis is, but last year he couldn't practice with the OL because of his injury. Now he's had surgery to take care of that and in the event that he has a relapse, they have Connor McGovern in whom they have tremendous confidence after the summer he's had. Really one of the bright stories of the offense.

[dogfish]

it's gonna be a little extra interesting seeing how the final 53 shakes out this year, for sure. . .

[MOtorboat]

Where we're going, we don't need right tackles.

http://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trevor-siemian2.jpg?w=525

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Where we're going, we don't need right tackles.

http://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trevor-siemian2.jpg?w=525

Another WR in a delux spread formation?

[Hawgdriver]

Where we're going, we don't need right tackles.

http://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trevor-siemian2.jpg?w=525

Oh you.

[underrated29]

where we're going, we don't need right tackles.

http://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trevor-siemian2.jpg?w=525

boom!

[Tned]

I like Watson, I don't like Garcia.

He's decent in the run game but he allows way too much interior pressure. We need to stop allowing as much interior pressure as last year so the QB can step up on the pocket when the edge pass rushers beat the tackles.

[Simple Jaded]

i hope that he will be. . . when do you think this be more reality, and less hashbrown?

About lunchtime.

[Poet]

i hope that he will be. . . when do you think this be more reality, and less hashbrown?

Right now. Okung was one of the worst LT's in the game last year. That's just factoring in his blocking and not his penalties, too. The contract he got was ranked by PFT as one of the worst ever. Bolles is going to get spanked, but his production will be on par with Okung. An upgrade that is cheaper. He's also, PROBABLY, going to improve throughout the season, too.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Right now. Okung was one of the worst LT's in the game last year. That's just factoring in his blocking and not his penalties, too. The contract he got was ranked by PFT as one of the worst ever. Bolles is going to get spanked, but his production will be on par with Okung. An upgrade that is cheaper. He's also, PROBABLY, going to improve throughout the season, too.

Plus we'll have the added pleasure of viewing the violent primordial activity from time to time.

[Poet]

Plus we'll have the added pleasure of viewing the violent primordial activity from time to time.

If someone roughs up our QB after the whistle they get to fight Bolles.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

If someone roughs up our QB after the whistle they get to fight Bolles.

Sometimes they'll get to fight him just because they're in front of him :laugh:

[Tned]

Just rewatched all the passing plays and right tackle isn't the area of concern. Don't get me wrong, Watson is beat now and then, as is Bolles, but even when beat, Watson seems to hold them wide enough to allow the QB to step up -- in theory. The problem is that more times than not, we are still allowing interior pressure. Max Garcia was totally blown up multiple times. Paradis a couple (missed all offseason, so he gets a pass) and a couple other times guys got between LG & C or C & RG, but it wasn't clear to my eye who's responsibility the rusher was.

The interior pass rush is the big concern, not the tackles at this point.

[dogfish]

Just rewatched all the passing plays and right tackle isn't the [#1, overwhelming] area of concern.

no worries, bud, i got ya. . . ;)

remember, any analysis of RT has to include the notable possibility that punk ass #71 could see the field in that spot. . . gawd forbid, st. john watch over us!

:defense:


in all seriousness, i am just hoping that paradis can round into some decent semblance of himself in the first month. . . IF that happens, i think our best five OLs at that point would probably include mcgovern at one of the guard spots. . .

#FingersCrossed

[Tned]

no worries, bud, i got ya. . . ;)

remember, any analysis of RT has to include the notable possibility that punk ass #71 could see the field in that spot. . . gawd forbid, st. john watch over us!

:defense:


in all seriousness, i am just hoping that paradis can round into some decent semblance of himself in the first month. . . IF that happens, i think our best five OLs at that point would probably include mcgovern at one of the guard spots. . .

#FingersCrossed

Agreed. At the moment, Joseph doesn't seem to be considering that possibility (McGovern at RG), but maybe if Paradis is healthy and LG continues to be a problem in the early weeks of the season, he might experiment with McGovern.

[Hawgdriver]

Just rewatched all the passing plays and right tackle isn't the area of concern. Don't get me wrong, Watson is beat now and then, as is Bolles, but even when beat, Watson seems to hold them wide enough to allow the QB to step up -- in theory. The problem is that more times than not, we are still allowing interior pressure. Max Garcia was totally blown up multiple times. Paradis a couple (missed all offseason, so he gets a pass) and a couple other times guys got between LG & C or C & RG, but it wasn't clear to my eye who's responsibility the rusher was.

The interior pass rush is the big concern, not the tackles at this point.

Not even Bolles?

I'm with you, Watson seems a solid replacement of Stephenson.

[Simple Jaded]

They need to leave McGovern where he's at, imo, TS's Int had a lot to do with Paradis getting his ass handed to him. Finally got a legit backup to Paradis, I think they should just let it be.

[Hawgdriver]

They need to leave McGovern where he's at, imo, TS's Int had a lot to do with Paradis getting his ass handed to him. Finally got a legit backup to Paradis, I think they should just let it be.

Wouldn't you want McGovern to just slide in if Paradis goes down?

[Simple Jaded]

Wouldn't you want McGovern to just slide in if Paradis goes down?

Absolutely, sorry, I thought people were saying he should switch positions.

[broncofaninfla]

Despite giving up a sack I thought Watson played better than the past two games. Garcia on the other hand is awful. Given Garcia isn't very versatile I think he stands a chance of being cut. Barber is a pretty good run blocking, so so at pass protection, Garcia is awful at both. I think it'll be Boles, Barber, Paradis, Leary and Watson as starters with McGovern, Ty and possibly Scholfield and a player to added after cuts for depth.

[Joel]

They need to leave McGovern where he's at, imo, TS's Int had a lot to do with Paradis getting his ass handed to him. Finally got a legit backup to Paradis, I think they should just let it be.
My issue with Paradis has always been, well, the same one you always harp about generally: "Athletic" shouldn't preclude "strong," but often does, and "often" seems to become "always" in Denver. And it does no good to have an interior linemen who can always anticipate and get in front of every stunt if the defensive linemen just bowl him over without slowing anyway.

Paradis reminds me a lot of Kuper, in both good and bad ways, which is why I hoped the lesser lateral duties of RG would let Garcia just be a straight up straight ahead road grader there. Alas, it was not to be. Hopefully Leary and our TBA starting RG are stout enough to help out with all the monster NTs, because anyone who consistently demands double teams from average interior linemen is likely to just pick up Paradis and use him to bludgeon our Q/RBs into the turf.

As for RT, I'm confident Watson will be fine as long as he stays healthy, but how long that is remains to be seen.

[Tned]

Not even Bolles?

I'm with you, Watson seems a solid replacement of Stephenson.

Bolles is going to have growing pains, no doubt, but they can't have a consistent passing game if there is pressure in the QB's face. It prevents the QB from stepping into throws, or stepping up to avoid speed rushes that beat the tackles. Interior pressure is the absolute worst thing to allow, IMO.

[Cugel]

Watson will be fine as long as he's healthy. That's always been his biggest issue.

Basically this.

Watson is no longer on the Raiders because he missed 1/2 of his starts over his NFL career.

[NightTerror218]

My issue with Paradis has always been, well, the same one you always harp about generally: "Athletic" shouldn't preclude "strong," but often does, and "often" seems to become "always" in Denver. And it does no good to have an interior linemen who can always anticipate and get in front of every stunt if the defensive linemen just bowl him over without slowing anyway.

Paradis reminds me a lot of Kuper, in both good and bad ways, which is why I hoped the lesser lateral duties of RG would let Garcia just be a straight up straight ahead road grader there. Alas, it was not to be. Hopefully Leary and our TBA starting RG are stout enough to help out with all the monster NTs, because anyone who consistently demands double teams from average interior linemen is likely to just pick up Paradis and use him to bludgeon our Q/RBs into the turf.

As for RT, I'm confident Watson will be fine as long as he stays healthy, but how long that is remains to be seen.

He is the #2 rated C and was injured. So yah he is fine.

[Joel]

He is the #2 rated C and was injured. So yah he is fine.
He's a great pass blocker, but was an underpowered run blocker even when both hips were healthy. I realize PFF thinks he's the greatest thing since Dwight Stephenson, but PFF says lots of things—some are even TRUE! ;)

[broncofaninfla]

Bump. Watson is a HUGE liability in pass protection.

[Valar Morghulis]

Bump. Watson is a HUGE liability in pass protection.

English wanker

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Bump. Watson is a HUGE liability in pass protection.

He's still better than what we had last year

[GEM]

He's still better than what we had last year

Which isn't saying much cause he's a hot pile of shit.

[Cugel]

They need to leave McGovern where he's at, imo, TS's Int had a lot to do with Paradis getting his ass handed to him. Finally got a legit backup to Paradis, I think they should just let it be.

McGovern is starting next week for Leary at RG. Leary flunked the concussion protocol and was taken out of the game. That means he misses the next game too.

[Cugel]

He's still better than what we had last year

What we had last year is still on the roster: Donald Stephenson. And yes, Watson is still better than him. No, that is not saying much at all.

[NightTerror218]

McGovern is starting next week for Leary at RG. Leary flunked the concussion protocol and was taken out of the game. That means he misses the next game too.

Not it doesn't. He can still pass this week and play.