PDA

View Full Version : SLOTER Theory



WARHORSE
08-23-2017, 06:51 PM
Ok. Been thinking about this a little. Its just SO out of whack for a coach to say what VJ said about Sloter. Even if the guy isnt going to make your squad, you just dont say " No, no, no...." to him competing. Not starting.....COMPETING.

While fans arent for the most part considered very knowledgable about football, we here at the BFs are the cream of the crop. (yes, I just made that up and said it) And while we dont know the inner workings of the Broncos ........we arent completely inept when it comes to knowing what we're looking at either when we're watching people play. Ive seen BVP play. Ive seen Brandstater. We've seen SO many camp arms.......and Sloter doesnt fit the bill.

I think theyre secretly high on him....so then why would they do that? Surely not simply to sneak him onto the practice squad in the hopes he sticks. I think they may be trying to move somebody........hmmm. It aint Chad Kelly or Sloter.

Could it be that Johnny boy wants to send little Pax to his partner in crime, Johnny 'I love me some Lynch' Lynch?

I'll take a second rounder....but if he starts 10 games.....first rounder.

chazoe60
08-23-2017, 06:56 PM
I like the idea and would love to see it happen but I don't think Lynch is worth anywhere near a 2nd rounder at this point. He has absolutely zero film of him ever doing anything that resembles a competent NFL QB on an NFL field.

underrated29
08-23-2017, 06:59 PM
I dont think they are going to trade pax unless a QB goes down or maybe Luck has a setback or something....

I do agree that they have been downplaying sloter so they can get him on the PS.



We know that VJ thought Chad Kelly was the best QB in this draft. His own words there. That is his guy and he took him MR. Irrelevant and VJ is a great talent evaluator. Maybe pax gets traded. I still think its more likely we trade one of the first 2 qbs next year assuming Kelly plays like VJ thinks (and many of us)

Tned
08-23-2017, 06:59 PM
While having lived through "they called and we said no" I will not completely discount any possibility, but I would say it's highly unlikley. I'll be very surprised if the Broncos wanted to go into the season with Sloter as the backup.

chazoe60
08-23-2017, 07:04 PM
We need to figure out how to land Luck via trade. We do well with QBs that the Colts drafted #1 overall.

WARHORSE
08-23-2017, 10:59 PM
While having lived through "they called and we said no" I will not completely discount any possibility, but I would say it's highly unlikley. I'll be very surprised if the Broncos wanted to go into the season with Sloter as the backup.


I would have to agree at this point. Its just so out of the ordinary in terms of 'coachspeak' for a headcoach to say things like that.

The Broncos may feel so enamored with the rest of their roster that they feel pressure to expose Kyle, with the hope that no one tries to sign him. If they do try to sign him, Denver could always match. They are paying him more than the usual salary for PS players.....that too can be a deterent....but for someone to sign him, they would have to activate him to the 53.

Cugel
08-24-2017, 11:21 AM
You're wildly over analysing this. VJ clearly doesn't worry about cutting Sloter. He thinks, probably correctly, that most other teams have a developmental guy like Sloter, and that few if any of them will be willing to put him on their active 53 man roster, which they would have to do if they picked him up off waivers.

You'll notice they are NOT exposing Chad Kelly because they believe, probably correctly, that some team would snatch him up. Kelly was considered a possible franchise QB, but he fell down hard in the draft due to off field stupidity and a well earned reputation for being a meat-head, which is not a good thing for an NFL starting QB to be. It's fortunate they can put him on the PUP list to start the season, but if he wasn't injured they'd have to put him on the 53 anyway or lose him.

I'd say, based solely on what VJ has said & done so far that he views Sloter as expendable and Chad Kelly as his developmental QB for next year.

slim
08-24-2017, 11:42 AM
We need to figure out how to land Luck via trade. We do well with QBs that the Colts drafted #1 overall.

Yeah, steal my jokes, funny man!

chazoe60
08-24-2017, 12:13 PM
Yeah, steal my jokes, funny man!

That's not your joke, numbers boy.

slim
08-24-2017, 12:15 PM
That's not your joke, numbers boy.

Okay, fine.

WARHORSE
08-24-2017, 11:21 PM
You're wildly over analysing this. VJ clearly doesn't worry about cutting Sloter. He thinks, probably correctly, that most other teams have a developmental guy like Sloter, and that few if any of them will be willing to put him on their active 53 man roster, which they would have to do if they picked him up off waivers.

You'll notice they are NOT exposing Chad Kelly because they believe, probably correctly, that some team would snatch him up. Kelly was considered a possible franchise QB, but he fell down hard in the draft due to off field stupidity and a well earned reputation for being a meat-head, which is not a good thing for an NFL starting QB to be. It's fortunate they can put him on the PUP list to start the season, but if he wasn't injured they'd have to put him on the 53 anyway or lose him.

I'd say, based solely on what VJ has said & done so far that he views Sloter as expendable and Chad Kelly as his developmental QB for next year.


Yeah I dont think he has an issue letting him go either............but why say out loud in public "No, no, no.....hes not competing.....we're only going to carry two QBS...... when we're still two preseason games away from a final roster?

Why not go ahead and tell the whole team who made it and who didnt? Is the comp over? Why single out Sloter when everyone knows hes shown well?

Forget soft coverage and garbage time TDs.......he scored to win the Bear game. That means something...or should.

Lets just say Pax takes an injury (cursed be the skies) you going to bring in the same guy you just said cant compete into the lockeroom and say, "We have complete trust in Kyle if something happens to Trevor"?

The kid is comfortable in the offense and is simply waiting for his shot.

Tned
08-24-2017, 11:52 PM
Yeah I dont think he has an issue letting him go either............but why say out loud in public "No, no, no.....hes not competing.....we're only going to carry two QBS...... when we're still two preseason games away from a final roster?

Why not go ahead and tell the whole team who made it and who didnt? Is the comp over? Why single out Sloter when everyone knows hes shown well?

Forget soft coverage and garbage time TDs.......he scored to win the Bear game. That means something...or should.

Lets just say Pax takes an injury (cursed be the skies) you going to bring in the same guy you just said cant compete into the lockeroom and say, "We have complete trust in Kyle if something happens to Trevor"?

The kid is comfortable in the offense and is simply waiting for his shot.

The actual quote:

On the third-string quarterback


“We’re going to carry only two on the roster. So, the third guy, he’s in the building. Right now, I think it’s Kyle. Hopefully it’s Kyle.”

So, if they can keep Sloter in the building, on the practice squad, and needed to promote him due to injury, there should be no trust or other issue with players due to him being put on practice squad.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-25-2017, 08:17 AM
"Hopefully it's Kyle".

Don't release him and you won't have to worry about it...

Rick
08-25-2017, 09:25 AM
Third stringer's or not, I don't see Kyle not getting nabbed by a quarterback needy team somewhere when he has hit on 92% of his passes so far.

BroncoJoe
08-25-2017, 09:37 AM
3rd string argument is dumb. He's also playing WITH 3rd stringers, not just against.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-25-2017, 09:52 AM
3rd string argument is dumb. He's also playing WITH 3rd stringers, not just against.

Some of those guys will be on the final roster, and a lot of them are candidates. If Sloter outplays all of them it would suggest he belongs on a 53 man roster

Cugel
08-26-2017, 04:10 AM
Yeah I dont think he has an issue letting him go either............but why say out loud in public "No, no, no.....hes not competing.....we're only going to carry two QBS...... when we're still two preseason games away from a final roster?

Why not go ahead and tell the whole team who made it and who didnt? Is the comp over? Why single out Sloter when everyone knows hes shown well?

Forget soft coverage and garbage time TDs.......he scored to win the Bear game. That means something...or should.

Lets just say Pax takes an injury (cursed be the skies) you going to bring in the same guy you just said cant compete into the lockeroom and say, "We have complete trust in Kyle if something happens to Trevor"?

The kid is comfortable in the offense and is simply waiting for his shot.

There was NEVER a competition including Sloter. The competition ONLY ever included Paxton and Trevor. Period. It was a 2 man competition from the first.

Now, some media members and a lot of fans got excited by what they saw from Sloter in games and just blindly assumed that the Broncos view the matter the same way they do.

Well, they don't. They still don't think enough of Kyle Sloter to even keep him on the 53 man roster. Joseph just said they are going with 2 QBs on the active roster and that is that. Period.

They are shutting the door on the whole QB controversy, which I believe went on WAY longer than Vance Joseph probably wanted, but John Elway is his boss, and his boss undoubtedly brought Joseph in as coach in the first place based partly on his plan to get the most out of Paxton Lynch.

When Joseph was interviewing for the job they asked him to evaluate their QBs and then talk about how he would develop these two guys, but particularly Paxton Lynch. Kubiak never really liked Lynch or wanted him as his starter. His guy was always Trevor and that led to conflict with Elway and the Broncos Player Personnel guys.

So, this has undoubtedly been hard on Vance Joseph. He probably could have named Trevor the starter at the end of first pre-season game at the latest. But, he had to let it play out because Elway wanted Paxton given every chance to succeed. He's not blind and can see what everybody can see, that Paxton isn't ready. But, they are definitely not ready to give up on him yet.

If Joseph wanted to do that, he would have hell on wheels getting that idea past John Elway. I'd say there's zero chance in hell of that happening before the end of this season. At that point they will evaluate what they have.

If Trevor plays like the 2nd Derek Carr, and Paxton comes in for a couple of games in relief of Trevor and bombs, then yes. I could see them trading or even releasing him next year. Or they could just keep him on the roster because he's under contract and there's a quickly diminishing market for him. The fact the Broncos want to get rid of him is proof enough in the eyes of other teams that Paxton is a bust.

You think you're the only ones who can see it? We can all see it plainly enough. Some might not want to admit it yet, but it's in all our minds, right? Staring us right in the face.

"10% never get the word." -- John F. Kennedy. Paxton is one of those 10% who just never get the word. He can't figure it out and it doesn't look like he ever will.

WARHORSE
08-29-2017, 10:01 PM
There was NEVER a competition including Sloter. The competition ONLY ever included Paxton and Trevor. Period. It was a 2 man competition from the first.

Now, some media members and a lot of fans got excited by what they saw from Sloter in games and just blindly assumed that the Broncos view the matter the same way they do.

Well, they don't. They still don't think enough of Kyle Sloter to even keep him on the 53 man roster. Joseph just said they are going with 2 QBs on the active roster and that is that. Period.

They are shutting the door on the whole QB controversy, which I believe went on WAY longer than Vance Joseph probably wanted, but John Elway is his boss, and his boss undoubtedly brought Joseph in as coach in the first place based partly on his plan to get the most out of Paxton Lynch.

When Joseph was interviewing for the job they asked him to evaluate their QBs and then talk about how he would develop these two guys, but particularly Paxton Lynch. Kubiak never really liked Lynch or wanted him as his starter. His guy was always Trevor and that led to conflict with Elway and the Broncos Player Personnel guys.

So, this has undoubtedly been hard on Vance Joseph. He probably could have named Trevor the starter at the end of first pre-season game at the latest. But, he had to let it play out because Elway wanted Paxton given every chance to succeed. He's not blind and can see what everybody can see, that Paxton isn't ready. But, they are definitely not ready to give up on him yet.

If Joseph wanted to do that, he would have hell on wheels getting that idea past John Elway. I'd say there's zero chance in hell of that happening before the end of this season. At that point they will evaluate what they have.

If Trevor plays like the 2nd Derek Carr, and Paxton comes in for a couple of games in relief of Trevor and bombs, then yes. I could see them trading or even releasing him next year. Or they could just keep him on the roster because he's under contract and there's a quickly diminishing market for him. The fact the Broncos want to get rid of him is proof enough in the eyes of other teams that Paxton is a bust.

You think you're the only ones who can see it? We can all see it plainly enough. Some might not want to admit it yet, but it's in all our minds, right? Staring us right in the face.

"10% never get the word." -- John F. Kennedy. Paxton is one of those 10% who just never get the word. He can't figure it out and it doesn't look like he ever will.

Well color me blind then.

If Pax is as you yourself have described him....one who can't figure it out....what does that or anyone else have to do with whether Sloter performs or not?
According to your explanation, then Chris Harris Jr. and Rod Smith weren't brought in to compete either........?

Nobody brings player in here for no reason and if they do, they should be fired.

Sloter was brought here for a reason, and it wasnt to be a camp arm. They overpaid him for no reason? He's brimming with potential and no one would be happier than the Denver Broncos if he panned out as a franchise gunslinger.

We'll see what happens.

Poet
08-29-2017, 10:18 PM
We've seen enough to 'know' that there might be something to him. I've witnessed plenty of other 'camp arms' not ever look great.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-29-2017, 10:28 PM
From article:


Sloter and his family watched all three days of the NFL Draft in his hometown of Atlanta to see the quarterback market take shape. He knew Saturday morning that he'd have a team later that day. The Broncos, Green Bay Packers, Cincinnati Bengals and Oakland Raiders called him to express interest.

Denver made contact again with 15 picks remaining in the draft. The Broncos held the last pick and they told Sloter they would probably make him "Mr. Irrelevant," as that distinction has come to be known. About five minutes after that, Sloter's phone rang again. It was Denver, again.

"They said they wouldn't be (drafting me)," Sloter said. "But they were still really high on me."

He already has some familiarity with the Broncos' offensive staff. Denver quarterbacks coach Bill Musgrave is the former coach of D.J. Shockley, who was Sloter's quarterbacks coach in high school. Musgrave, like Sloter, is from Atlanta.

The Broncos signed him to a three-year preferred undrafted free agent contract that includes a signing bonus. That's an atypical contract, and it shows how highly Denver values him.

full article - http://www.greeleytribune.com/sports/former-unc-quarterback-kyle-sloter-signs-with-denver-broncos-as-undrafted-free-agent/

Cugel
08-30-2017, 10:17 AM
Well color me blind then.

If Pax is as you yourself have described him....one who can't figure it out....what does that or anyone else have to do with whether Sloter performs or not?
According to your explanation, then Chris Harris Jr. and Rod Smith weren't brought in to compete either........?

Nobody brings player in here for no reason and if they do, they should be fired.

Sloter was brought here for a reason, and it wasnt to be a camp arm. They overpaid him for no reason? He's brimming with potential and no one would be happier than the Denver Broncos if he panned out as a franchise gunslinger.

We'll see what happens.

It it was up to me, I'd trade Paxton right now for a box of kleenex and keep Sloter as the #2. And then next season I'd give Sloter and Chad Kelly a chance to compete for the starting job - UNLESS Trevor plays like the next Derek Carr this year.

So, I think that Sloter has "it". Paxton clearly has zero self confidence. Sloter is full of confidence. You look at start QBs in this league and they all have that look. "This is MY game. I got this! I'm having fun out there."

And I was a huge Paxton backer! But, I'm not blind. Paxton just flat doesn't have it.

Cugel
08-30-2017, 10:24 AM
Sloter was brought here for a reason, and it wasnt to be a camp arm.

This part is just flat wrong though. He WAS a camp arm and nothing more. VJ just said that. "He's exceeded expectations."

Get that! He played well, which is "exceeding expectations." They didn't expect him to do anything, but he seized his chance to shine. When Trevor has a good game, they don't say "he exceeded expectations." They expect him to do well.


Here's Sloter's contract:
Base Salary: $465,000. Signing bonus: $1,000 (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/kyle-sloter-22017/).

That's veteran minimum. They are literally paying him the least possible amount they could.

Some guys just overplay their contract: like Chris Harris.

He was 10th on the depth chart and the secondary coach didn't even know his name. He was just a camp body. But, he kept making plays and forced them to keep him on the 53. Then he forced them to put him into the rotation. Then he forced his way into the lineup. Finally, he forced the team to give him an extended contract for a lot more money.

Poet
08-31-2017, 04:31 PM
Cugel, you make me hate lawyers.

LawDog
08-31-2017, 04:53 PM
This part is just flat wrong though. He WAS a camp arm and nothing more. VJ just said that. "He's exceeded expectations."

Get that! He played well, which is "exceeding expectations." They didn't expect him to do anything, but he seized his chance to shine. When Trevor has a good game, they don't say "he exceeded expectations." They expect him to do well.


That's veteran minimum. They are literally paying him the least possible amount they could.

Some guys just overplay their contract: like Chris Harris.

He was 10th on the depth chart and the secondary coach didn't even know his name. He was just a camp body. But, he kept making plays and forced them to keep him on the 53. Then he forced them to put him into the rotation. Then he forced his way into the lineup. Finally, he forced the team to give him an extended contract for a lot more money.

His signing bonus was actually $3,000 (which represents the total of his guaranteed money), but the cap hit gets spread over the three years of the contract he signed which makes it look like it is only $1,000.

underrated29
08-31-2017, 04:54 PM
Not only that but making Vet minimum is pretty amazing considering he is a rookie and not a vet!

Krugan
08-31-2017, 05:25 PM
I thought a standard UDFA contract was 435k, which means he is up 30k. Which to some of us regular folk is a pretty big difference:P

LawDog
08-31-2017, 06:29 PM
I thought a standard UDFA contract was 435k, which means he is up 30k. Which to some of us regular folk is a pretty big difference:P

2017 UDFA base is 465k. Sloter is actually in the bottom half of our undrafteds this year. Some had bigger signing bonuses, or a bigger bonus and part of first year base guaranteed.

ShaneFalco
08-31-2017, 10:57 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/JLBT3PV3tOvIY/giphy.gif

Jsteve01
08-31-2017, 11:08 PM
I don't think there's any way that you could sneak him onto the practice squad given the fact that he's played extremely well in the preseason. Then you can buying that with his extreme physical ability and most coaches would be pretty excited to have a guy like that as number 3 on the roster.

WARHORSE
08-31-2017, 11:32 PM
This part is just flat wrong though. He WAS a camp arm and nothing more. VJ just said that. "He's exceeded expectations."

Get that! He played well, which is "exceeding expectations." They didn't expect him to do anything, but he seized his chance to shine. When Trevor has a good game, they don't say "he exceeded expectations." They expect him to do well.


That's veteran minimum. They are literally paying him the least possible amount they could.

Some guys just overplay their contract: like Chris Harris.

He was 10th on the depth chart and the secondary coach didn't even know his name. He was just a camp body. But, he kept making plays and forced them to keep him on the 53. Then he forced them to put him into the rotation. Then he forced his way into the lineup. Finally, he forced the team to give him an extended contract for a lot more money.

I dont necessarily think we are on different pages.

They dont bring people in here just so they can leave after training camp.

Kyle was given a chance because of his potential.

By saying he 'exceeded' expectations, you first have to know what theyre expectations were....know if they looked at him as purely developmental....which is probably true...then making the 53 would be exceeding. If not......then what.....he made the practice squad and they never figured he would do that?

Im just glad hes on the roster because hes been exciting to watch so far, and I would LOVE for him to be a cinderella story.

Thats also why I think Joseph has been downplaying him on purpose.

I do not think it would be wise to stick Kyle at number two. If we did...I would play it very safe. Lots of running and punting if I have to, limiting his drops. Why? Because the NFL is lighting fast during the reg season and hes not ready to mentally digest whats gonna be in front of him.

I think Paxton should be number two unless traded. If hes traded, then bring in another vet QB besides Kaperdick to play behind Siemian.

I think Kyle should be brought along slowly.

GEM
08-31-2017, 11:38 PM
Ok. Been thinking about this a little. Its just SO out of whack for a coach to say what VJ said about Sloter. Even if the guy isnt going to make your squad, you just dont say " No, no, no...." to him competing. Not starting.....COMPETING.

While fans arent for the most part considered very knowledgable about football, we here at the BFs are the cream of the crop. (yes, I just made that up and said it) And while we dont know the inner workings of the Broncos ........we arent completely inept when it comes to knowing what we're looking at either when we're watching people play. Ive seen BVP play. Ive seen Brandstater. We've seen SO many camp arms.......and Sloter doesnt fit the bill.

I think theyre secretly high on him....so then why would they do that? Surely not simply to sneak him onto the practice squad in the hopes he sticks. I think they may be trying to move somebody........hmmm. It aint Chad Kelly or Sloter.

Could it be that Johnny boy wants to send little Pax to his partner in crime, Johnny 'I love me some Lynch' Lynch?

I'll take a second rounder....but if he starts 10 games.....first rounder.

At this point, I Think they should consider a round of golf. Maybe a happy meal for lunch. Draft picks ain't happening.

ShaneFalco
08-31-2017, 11:39 PM
Ya i think they are high on the guy as well.

Just dont want to let it go to his head. He is a rook after all.

Ill never doubt war again.

Joel
09-01-2017, 12:25 PM
At this point, I Think they should consider a round of golf. Maybe a happy meal for lunch. Draft picks ain't happening.
Don't be so sure: There are a lot of QB-desperate teams (as always) and plenty of inexperienced coaches convinced they can do better with a guy who "has all the tools, he's just in the wrong situation" (also as always.) O'Brien and Oz were the rule, not the exception; the Boy Genius thought Orton was a future HoFer, remember? Chip Kelly thought he could do a whole TEAM like that, and he was sadly not the first either.

Meanwhile, Lynch remains a former 1st round pick under contract through 2019 for <$2M/yr; that's not a huge risk, and has some very attractive upside. As bad as he looks in preseason and camp, his NFL resume's only two games, so there's still plenty of room and time for him to go either way. If we were able to get a pick for freakin' CHRIS CLARK, we ought to be able to get SOMETHING for Lynch. But the longer we wait, the less it'll be (it really does remind me of Latimer all over again.)

CoachChaz
09-01-2017, 04:35 PM
The Sloter lovefest reminds me of the Van Pelt affiar years ago. Will probably end up the same way, too.

Mike
09-01-2017, 04:38 PM
The Sloter lovefest reminds me of the Van Pelt affiar years ago. Will probably end up the same way, too.

Yeah, damn that UDFA who looks better than our bust of a 1st round pick...lol.

CoachChaz
09-01-2017, 04:41 PM
Yeah, damn that UDFA who looks better than our bust of a 1st round pick...lol.

Yep. Amazing performances against guys who wont have jobs tomorrow. It's just entertaining to me when every few years, we grab some UDFA QB and ordain him as the next coming of Christ. But somehow when it's all said and done, I dont expect to see his name next to Moon, Warner or Romo in the annals of successful UDFA QB's. But anything is possible, I guess.

HORSEPOWER 56
09-01-2017, 04:48 PM
The Sloter lovefest reminds me of the Van Pelt affiar years ago. Will probably end up the same way, too.

Except that Van Pelt was a garbage running QB who was just a local-boy version of Tebow who was a hit with CSU fans. Dude couldn't throw and couldn't read a defense but he was fast and could run with the ball. I think everyone knew from the start the guy really didn't have a future as a pro QB. Any more than a guy like Jarious Jackson did.

Sloter has a professional quality football arm. It's obvious that he has the best combination of power, accuracy, throwing motion, and quick release on the roster (not counting maybe Kelly but he has yet to throw at all). If you've watched any of his pre-season throws, it's obvious the dude has uncoachable arm talent. The guy makes big-boy throws. He has the talent most coaches covet - the ability to make the defense defend every blade of grass. Siemian sure as shit doesn't.

If the Broncos cut him, I don't think he'll be unemployed long

CoachChaz
09-01-2017, 04:54 PM
Except that Van Pelt was a garbage running QB who was just a local-boy version of Tebow who was a hit with CSU fans. Dude couldn't throw and couldn't read a defense but he was fast and could run with the ball. I think everyone knew from the start the guy really didn't have a future as a pro QB. Any more than a guy like Jarious Jackson did.

Sloter has a professional quality football arm. It's obvious that he has the best combination of power, accuracy, throwing motion, and quick release on the roster (not counting maybe Kelly but he has yet to throw at all). If you've watched any of his pre-season throws, it's obvious the dude has uncoachable arm talent. The guy makes big-boy throws. He has the talent most coaches covet - the ability to make the defense defend every blade of grass. Siemian sure as shit doesn't.

If the Broncos cut him, I don't think he'll be unemployed long

I'm not arguing with what I've seen him do against future Subway employees. But it does speak to the state of things when a UDFA rookie QB is considered possibly the best option as a starter on this team. I'm on the Kelly bandwagon myself when he is able to resume football activities, but in the meantime...I'm just not going to hold my breath on Sloter. Maybe he ends up being the back-up to Kelly in a few years...maybe he's selling insurance in a few years...or maybe he's a golden nugget and is a starter. But if I were a betting man, I'd look forward to seeing what he can do for me with a home/auto/life combo discount.

Nomad
09-01-2017, 04:55 PM
The Sloter lovefest reminds me of the Van Pelt affiar years ago. Will probably end up the same way, too.

He's our BVP of 2017. Its all fun, no need to overthink it.

WARHORSE
09-01-2017, 04:57 PM
The Sloter lovefest reminds me of the Van Pelt affiar years ago. Will probably end up the same way, too.


MAYBE.. but nah.

This kid has alot more talent than Super BVP.

Gunslinger #1 has got the goods.

Nomad
09-01-2017, 05:02 PM
Yep. Amazing performances against guys who wont have jobs tomorrow. It's just entertaining to me when every few years, we grab some UDFA QB and ordain him as the next coming of Christ. But somehow when it's all said and done, I dont expect to see his name next to Moon, Warner or Romo in the annals of successful UDFA QB's. But anything is possible, I guess.

He is a BRONCO, so this is what we hope for.

Joel
09-01-2017, 05:14 PM
Yep. Amazing performances against guys who wont have jobs tomorrow
beat AWFUL performances against those SAME GUYS who won't have jobs tomorrow. Maybe this is one of those high floor/low ceiling things, but the UDFA rookie is vastly outperforming the 2nd year 1st rounder against the same competition. Doesn't prove him the next Moon, Warner nor even Romo (though those guys do mean it wouldn't be unprecedented.) It just proves that whatever he is is better than our currently designated backup and hoped for QBotF. Once the games count, QBotP>QBotF.

Until/unless Siemian gets hurt or blows it we're just talking about the BACKUP QB, but within that context there shouldn't be anything to discuss.

Poet
09-01-2017, 05:49 PM
What is a Brad Van Pelt and why does it make me angry?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-01-2017, 06:08 PM
What is a Brad Van Pelt and why does it make me angry?

It is an undersized linebacker who played quarterback for Denver during one preseason as an undrafted free agent. It makes you angry because you are perceptive

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-01-2017, 06:09 PM
I'm not arguing with what I've seen him do against future Subway employees. But it does speak to the state of things when a UDFA rookie QB is considered possibly the best option as a starter on this team. I'm on the Kelly bandwagon myself when he is able to resume football activities, but in the meantime...I'm just not going to hold my breath on Sloter. Maybe he ends up being the back-up to Kelly in a few years...maybe he's selling insurance in a few years...or maybe he's a golden nugget and is a starter. But if I were a betting man, I'd look forward to seeing what he can do for me with a home/auto/life combo discount.

I have typed him as much as anybody here most likely. However, I never stated he should be starting but only that the Broncos would be stupid not to keep him and try to develop him

slim
09-01-2017, 06:10 PM
I dont understand the Sloter hate. The preseason is the obly thing we have to judge him on. I guess the FO disagrees, cause he is apparently gonna make the roster

Joel
09-01-2017, 06:20 PM
I have typed him as much as anybody here most likely. However, I never stated he should be starting but only that the Broncos would be stupid not to keep him and try to develop him
Yeah, not really understanding that unless it's because he keeps getting compared to Lynch (the great detriment of the latter.) But that's the thing: Lynch hasn't shown anything like starter ability, so we're comparing Sloter to a (currently bad) backup, and he stacks up pretty well in that regard.

Lynch is so raw and has seen so little game time that it feels like the team's almost forced to keep around through next offseason, but there's nothing wrong with carrying three QBs; many teams do it, for good reason. Hell, WE did it last year and the year before, else Siemian probably wouldn't even be here, and the argument for last year (i.e. both Siemian and Lynch are green) still holds.

Poet
09-01-2017, 06:21 PM
He's probably on par, or not too far behind TS, and he has significantly more ability. Start the man! He's got more arm than Syria!

slim
09-01-2017, 06:27 PM
He's probably on par, or not too far behind TS, and he has significantly more ability. Start the man! He's got more arm than Syria!

If you are not super bowl quality, you are rebuilding.

We'll see how the first four games go and if we are struggling, then we have to see if one of the talented QBs can figure it out.

Joel
09-01-2017, 06:27 PM
He's probably on par, or not too far behind TS, and he has significantly more ability. Start the man! He's got more arm than Syria!
See, but Siemian actually HAS faced starting defenses, and came out pretty well: The starting job remains his to lose. I love Sloter and think he has everything anyone wants in a franchise QB—but I'm not ready to bet the season on a rookie UDFA who's only played a single year of second tier college ball.

Now, an open competition next preseason (for the third year running; at that point Siemian's got to be thinking, Wow, I know I was a 7th rounder, but htf many times do I have to win this job?!) is fine by me, and may the best man win. But for my money Siemian's the starter until he isn't, and Sloter's the backup on the same basis.

Poet
09-01-2017, 06:28 PM
See, but Siemian actually HAS faced starting defenses, and came out pretty well: The starting job remains his to lose. I love Sloter and think he has everything anyone wants in a franchise QB—but I'm not ready to bet the season on a rookie UDFA who's only played a single year of second tier college ball.

Now, an open competition next preseason (for the third year running; at that point Siemian's got to be thinking, Wow, I know I was a 7th rounder, but htf many times do I have to win this job?!) is fine by me, and may the best man win. But for my money Siemian's the starter until he isn't, and Sloter's the backup on the same basis.

No.

slim
09-01-2017, 06:30 PM
See, but Siemian actually HAS faced starting defenses, and came out pretty well: The starting job remains his to lose. I love Sloter and think he has everything anyone wants in a franchise QB—but I'm not ready to bet the season on a rookie UDFA who's only played a single year of second tier college ball.

Now, an open competition next preseason (for the third year running; at that point Siemian's got to be thinking, Wow, I know I was a 7th rounder, but htf many times do I have to win this job?!) is fine by me, and may the best man win. But for my money Siemian's the starter until he isn't, and Sloter's the backup on the same basis.

Josh McCown had also faced starting quality defenses. BFD. You cant get experience unless you play!!!

Poet
09-01-2017, 06:44 PM
Josh McCown had also faced starting quality defenses. BFD. You cant get experience unless you play!!!

TS only got it because of a fluke. Now he clings to it to keep his job. Gross.

slim
09-01-2017, 06:48 PM
TS only got it because of a fluke. Now he clings to it to keep his job. Gross.

He had no experience at the start of last season, but now he does!!!

Joel
09-01-2017, 06:49 PM
Josh McCown had also faced starting quality defenses. BFD. You cant get experience unless you play!!!
If you don't see the problem with that comparison, maybe this will help:

Josh McCown


G
GS
QBrec
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lng
Y/A
AY/A
Y/C
Y/G
Rate
Sk
Yds
NY/A
Sk%
4QC
GWD


82
60
18-42
1254
2121
59.1
14242
79
3.7
69
3.3
80
6.7
6.0
11.4
173.7
78.2
189
1264
5.62
8.2
5
5





Trevor Siemian


G
GS
QBrec
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lng
Y/A
AY/A
Y/C
Y/G
Rate
Sk
Yds
NY/A
Sk%
4QC
GWD


15
14
8-6
289
486
59.5
3401
18
3.7
10
2.1
76
7.0
6.8
11.8
226.7
84.6
31
187
6.22
6.0
3
2



In other words, Siemian's first year starting is already better than McCowns whole career, but, at 25, Siemian has lots of room to improve, while the 37-year-old McCown will only get worse. If we want to compare his first season starting (his second in the league, just like Siemian) here's that:



G
GS
QBrec
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lng
Y/A
AY/A
Y/C
Y/G
Rate
Sk
Yds
NY/A
Sk%
4QC
GWD


8
3
1-2
95
166
57.2
1018
5
3.0
6
3.6
60
6.1
5.1
10.7
127.3
70.3
25
174
4.42
13.1
1
1



Lower completion%, lower TD%, higher Int% (half again as high, actually) and, when we count sacks, nearly 2 full yards less per attempt. McCown actually managed to get sacked more than TWICE as often as Siemian did behind our garbage line; that's sadly impressive.

slim
09-01-2017, 06:53 PM
If you don't see the problem with that comparison, maybe this will help:

Josh McCown


G
GS
QBrec
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lng
Y/A
AY/A
Y/C
Y/G
Rate
Sk
Yds
NY/A
Sk%
4QC
GWD


82
60
18-42
1254
2121
59.1
14242
79
3.7
69
3.3
80
6.7
6.0
11.4
173.7
78.2
189
1264
5.62
8.2
5
5





Trevor Siemian


G
GS
QBrec
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lng
Y/A
AY/A
Y/C
Y/G
Rate
Sk
Yds
NY/A
Sk%
4QC
GWD


15
14
8-6
289
486
59.5
3401
18
3.7
10
2.1
76
7.0
6.8
11.8
226.7
84.6
31
187
6.22
6.0
3
2



In other words, Siemian's first year starting is already better than McCowns whole career, but, at 25, Siemian has lots of room to improve, while the 37-year-old McCown will only get worse. If we want to compare his first season starting (his second in the league, just like Siemian) here's that:



G
GS
QBrec
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lng
Y/A
AY/A
Y/C
Y/G
Rate
Sk
Yds
NY/A
Sk%
4QC
GWD


8
3
1-2
95
166
57.2
1018
5
3.0
6
3.6
60
6.1
5.1
10.7
127.3
70.3
25
174
4.42
13.1
1
1



Lower completion%, lower TD%, higher Int% (half again as high, actually) and, when we count sacks, nearly 2 full yards less per attempt. McCown actually managed to get sacked more than TWICE as often as Siemian did behind our garbage line; that's sadly impressive.

Cool comparison. I tend to agree with you. Trevor's ceiling is Josh M. If we are lucky.

Poet
09-01-2017, 07:01 PM
Listing out guys who have similar completion percentages in years where it was harder to pass isn't a great way to endear that argument to anyone.

The fact that TS had that number in an offense that relied on short passing doesn't help, either.

Joel
09-01-2017, 07:02 PM
Cool comparison. I tend to agree with you. Trevor's ceiling is Josh M. If we are lucky.
Except he already BROKE that ceiling his first season starting. If anyone on the coaching staff thought it'll be all downhill from there, he wouldn't be starting anymore.

Nomad
09-01-2017, 07:04 PM
I dont understand the Sloter hate. The preseason is the obly thing we have to judge him on. I guess the FO disagrees, cause he is apparently gonna make the roster

No hate from me, I'm rooting for him, but the hype does remind me when BVP came out on how BRONCO fans were so excited about his ability and potential.

Joel
09-01-2017, 07:06 PM
Listing out guys who have similar completion percentages in years where it was harder to pass isn't a great way to endear that argument to anyone.

The fact that TS had that number in an offense that relied on short passing doesn't help, either.
Not this again: Contrary to the new saying, 911 didn't change literally EVERYTHING. Tom Brady already had a SB Ring McCowns rookie year, and got another a year later.


No hate from me, I'm rooting for him, but the hype does remind me when BVP came out on how BRONCO fans were so excited about his ability and potential.
Bradlee Van Pelts leather helmet era was eons ago, old timer; there's no comparison with todays CGI football. ;)

slim
09-01-2017, 07:07 PM
No hate from me, I'm rooting for him, but the hype does remind me when BVP came out on how BRONCO fans were so excited about his ability and potential.

Yeah, except one of them can actually throw the ball. I agree that the likelihood of Kyle becoming a franchise QB is small, but what is the downside to developing him?

Nomad
09-01-2017, 07:10 PM
Yeah, except one of them can actually throw the ball. I agree that the likelihood of Kyle becoming a franchise QB is small, but what is the downside to developing him?

It's the hype, not ability......hype. It's fun, exciting, and the game replay comes on at 2000 here on NFLN (2100 your time).

Nomad
09-01-2017, 07:11 PM
Not this again: Contrary to the new saying, 911 didn't change literally EVERYTHING. Tom Brady already had a SB Ring McCowns rookie year, and got another a year later.


Bradlee Van Pelts leather helmet era was eons ago, old timer; there's no comparison with todays CGI football. ;)

Hey, I'm younger than slim.

slim
09-01-2017, 07:12 PM
It's the hype, not ability......hype. It's fun, exciting, and the game replay comes on at 2000 here on NFLN (2100 your time).

I think he has shown ability. The question is can he grow and develop into a quality QB?

Joel
09-01-2017, 07:12 PM
Yeah, except one of them can actually throw the ball. I agree that the likelihood of Kyle becoming a franchise QB is small, but what is the downside to developing him?
None, but that's very different promoting him to starter within the next 5 days. Again: Stating the obvious (i.e. that Sloter's far outperformed Lynch against equal competition) is only an argument he better suits Lynchs CURRENT role (i.e. BACKUP to the STARTER (i.e. Siemian.)) If Siemian tanks or gets hurt and Sloter takes control of the team, fine, but until/unless that happens, I still can't get behind starting a rookie UDFA who's only played a single year of second tier college ball.

Next offseason though... Lynch better get a LOT better VERY fast, because I'm not sure he could beat a healthy Swag Kelly for the #3 spot right now, but we KNOW he can't beat Siemian or Sloter.

slim
09-01-2017, 07:12 PM
Hey, I'm younger than slim.

Age is just a number!!!!

Poet
09-01-2017, 07:13 PM
Not this again: Contrary to the new saying, 911 didn't change literally EVERYTHING. Tom Brady already had a SB Ring McCowns rookie year, and got another a year later.


Bradlee Van Pelts leather helmet era was eons ago, old timer; there's no comparison with todays CGI football. ;)

If you don't think that there have been rule changes since JM's rookie year that impacted the game then I'm not sure what to tell you. At one point, relatively early in his career, Brady led the league in passing with just over 4k yards. Now that number doesn't mean a damn thing. Rebuttal failed.

slim
09-01-2017, 07:13 PM
None, but that's very different promoting him to starter within the next 5 days. Again: Stating the obvious (i.e. that Sloter's far outperformed Lynch against equal competition) is only an argument he better suits Lynchs CURRENT role (i.e. BACKUP to the STARTER (i.e. Siemian.)) If Siemian tanks or gets hurt and Sloter takes control of the team, fine, but until/unless that happens, I still can't get behind starting a rookie UDFA who's only played a single year of second tier college ball.

Next offseason though... Lynch better get a LOT better VERY fast, because I'm not sure he could beat a healthy Swag Kelly for the #3 spot right now, but we KNOW he can't beat Siemian or Sloter.

Yeah, that is pretty much what I said!!!!

Joel
09-01-2017, 07:14 PM
Hey, I'm younger than slim.
It wasn't a shot at slim, but at Kingers continual contention that a decade ago was The Before Time, completely incomparable to "modern day" football.

Nomad
09-01-2017, 07:16 PM
It wasn't a shot at slim, but at Kingers continual contention that a decade ago was The Before Time, completely incomparable to "modern day" football.

Oh I see. slim is still old.

Poet
09-01-2017, 07:18 PM
It wasn't a shot at slim, but at Kingers continual contention that a decade ago was The Before Time, completely incomparable to "modern day" football.

The exaggeration is where you actually strawmaned me.

slim
09-01-2017, 07:19 PM
Oh I see. slim is still old.

You SOB!!!!

slim
09-01-2017, 07:20 PM
Joel, the game has changed enormously in the last ten years.

slim
09-01-2017, 07:23 PM
Ten years ago I was a young man!!!

Joel
09-01-2017, 07:35 PM
If you don't think that there have been rule changes since JM's rookie year that impacted the game then I'm not sure what to tell you. At one point, relatively early in his career, Brady led the league in passing with just over 4k yards. Now that number doesn't mean a damn thing. Rebuttal failed.
There are rules changes that impact the game nearly EVERY year, but they don't revolutionize it within a decade. Matty Ice won last years passing title with a 117.1 rating: Nine years after Brady posted a 117.2. Peyton Manning had the all-time record of 121.1 Josh McCowns third season, until Rodgers broke the record in 2011 with a 122.5. A whopping 1.4 pts higher, and no one else has EVER matched Mannings 2004 rating. Not in 2014, not in 2016, and probably not in 2017.

Yes, the nearly annual rule changes usually impact the game (that's the whole point, after all,) occasionally in big immediate ways. Everyone knows 1905 radically altered the game—but even there lies a lesson, because it was decadeS (as in "multiple") before the play caught up to the rules: Long enough that it was a national sensation eight years later when Notre Dame used the newfangled pass to beat Armys seemingly invincible team, and even then all but a few colleges refused to even consider the pass as anything but a desperate last resort when the game was probably already irretrievably lost anyway.

Most often, the quasi-annual rule changes only change the game itself incrementally, OVER TIME. Like, longer than it takes a grammar school kid to graduate HS. Most changes are generational and due to the ebb and flow of STRATEGY, to which the rules merely respond: One team finds an innovative tactic, exploits it to great success, others follow their lead and finally the Competition Committee weighs into restore a level playing field.

In terms of passing in particular, the general trend since 1905 has been more passing more often, and pointing to any single rule or season as pivotal runs into trouble in a hurry because things like 1905 have repeatedly happened on a lesser scale. The defenseless player rules aren't nearly as big a deal as the PI rule instituted in the '70s, without which all that innovative West Coast stuff in the '80s never could've happened, because DBs and LBs would've just gone right on knocking the crap out of any and all receivers that got near a ball. Until then, receivers had to truly BEAT coverage; not "if he's even he's leavin'," but beat defenders off the line so they didn't get mugged all the way downfield, and keep their heads on a swivel for safeties hanging back to hunt them.

This actually IS your fathers Oldsmobile, regardless of whether you're old enough to recognize the phrase. ;)

Nomad
09-01-2017, 07:37 PM
It would be awesome if Sloter was a diamond in the rough. All us BRONCO fans have been wishing for, since Elway left, is a franchise QB.

Joel
09-01-2017, 07:38 PM
The exaggeration is where you actually strawmaned me.
The exaggeration was where you keep insisting 2017 is a completely different league than 2007. Refresh my memory: How many teams have surpassed 2007s passing leader, and how remarkably unprecedented was that lone occurrence? Yeah, the game's changed a lot over time, enough that Chad freakin' Pennington could win the NFL passing title McCowns rookie year. But it hasn't changed that much SINCE then, and the comparison was McCown to Siemian, so that's the relevant era: THIS one.

General rule: If guys from any given period we're designating "a whole other era" are STILL PLAYING, it's the same era. If you want to say this isn't Joe Montanas league, sure; the '87 strike and the cap truly did "change everything" (or at least a lot of things.) So did PI in the '70s. So did the AFL in the '60s; talk about opening up the passing floodgates. Let's keep a little perspective though; eliminating in the grasp is only a big deal to people who can't remember when it never existed in the first place.

Poet
09-01-2017, 07:40 PM
Ugh.

Cugel
09-02-2017, 06:57 PM
With the Osweiler signing, Sloter will now be cut and go through waivers, then when he clears waivers the Broncos will try and re-sign him to the practice squad.

BroncoJoe
09-03-2017, 09:39 AM
With the Osweiler signing, Sloter will now be cut and go through waivers, then when he clears waivers the Broncos will try and re-sign him to the practice squad.

#hottake

BroncoWave
09-03-2017, 09:53 AM
#hottake

Joe coming in with the mad hashtag game!

#respek

Denver Native (Carol)
09-03-2017, 10:04 AM
Question - is there a certain amount of wait time before the Broncos can sign Sloter? I know he needs to clear waivers. Guess what I am asking is there a certain amount of time in regards to clearing waivers?

BroncoJoe
09-03-2017, 10:06 AM
Question - is there a certain amount of wait time before the Broncos can sign Sloter? I know he needs to clear waivers. Guess what I am asking is there a certain amount of time in regards to clearing waivers?

24 hours. Noon EST today, I believe.

BroncoWave
09-03-2017, 10:07 AM
I believe it's 24 hours to clear waivers then they can re-sign him whenever.

Joel
09-03-2017, 10:42 AM
Eighteen minutes; this is more exciting than Draft Day...!