Broncos predictions

[weazel]

What will their record be this season and how deep do they go in the playoffs... if they make it?

Week 1 - vs Chargers MNF late game
Week 2 - vs Cowboys
Week 3 - at Bills (11:00 MT)
Week 4 - vs Raiders
Week 5 - Bye
Week 6 - vs Giants SNF
Week 7 - at Chargers
Week 8 - at Chiefs MNF
Week 9 - at Eagles (11:00 MT)
Week 10 - vs Patriots SNF
Week 11 -vs Bengals
Week 12 - at Raiders
Week 13 - at Dolphins (11:00 MT)
Week 14 - vs Jets
Week 15 - at Colts TNF
Week 16 - at Redskins (11:00 MT)
Week 17 - vs Chiefs

[MOtorboat]

7-9, 8-8, probably miss the playoffs.

[BroncoJoe]

16-0. Sweep the playoffs and win the Superbowl.

[Hawgdriver]

7-9, 8-8, probably miss the playoffs.

That's what I see, but I didn't want my fan card scrutinized. Brave man.

[MOtorboat]

That's what I see, but I didn't want my fan card scrutinized. Brave man.

Lots of injuries on defense, questions about the offensive line and below average quarterback play. Could it all come together? Sure, but right now, I think that's a fair, if not positive, assessment of where Denver is right now.

[slim]

Lots of injuries on defense, questions about the offensive line and below average quarterback play. Could it all come together? Sure, but right now, I think that's a fair, if not positive, assessment of where Denver is right now.

Yeah, but if you were a real Bronco fan you could have just as easily said 9-7 instead of 7-9. :hi:

[BroncoJoe]

It's a tough schedule, but I can't bring myself to say "we'll lose to __________". Can't.

[Tned]

Injuries on defense has me worried, assuming Wolf, Crick and Walker aren't long term injuries, then I think something like this:

W - Week 1 - vs Chargers MNF late game
W - Week 2 - vs Cowboys
W - Week 3 - at Bills (11:00 MT)
L - Week 4 - vs Raiders
Week 5 - Bye
W - Week 6 - vs Giants SNF
L - Week 7 - at Chargers
L - Week 8 - at Chiefs MNF
W - Week 9 - at Eagles (11:00 MT)
W - Week 10 - vs Patriots SNF
W - Week 11 -vs Bengals
L - Week 12 - at Raiders
W - Week 13 - at Dolphins (11:00 MT)
W - Week 14 - vs Jets
L - Week 15 - at Colts TNF
W - Week 16 - at Redskins (11:00 MT)
W - Week 17 - vs Chiefs

11-5, but could easily swing anywhere from 9-7 to 12-4. I put the likelihood of worse than 9 wins or better than 12 as pretty unlikely. So, I'l call the 9-12 win range as 80% confidence and more like 65% confidence level in the 11 wins.

[underrated29]

What will their record be this season and how deep do they go in the playoffs... if they make it?

Week 1 - vs Chargers MNF late game
Week 2 - vs Cowboys
Week 3 - at Bills (11:00 MT)
Week 4 - vs Raiders
Week 5 - Bye
Week 6 - vs Giants SNF
Week 7 - at Chargers
Week 8 - at Chiefs MNF
Week 9 - at Eagles (11:00 MT)
Week 10 - vs Patriots SNF
Week 11 -vs Bengals
Week 12 - at Raiders
Week 13 - at Dolphins (11:00 MT)
Week 14 - vs Jets
Week 15 - at Colts TNF
Week 16 - at Redskins (11:00 MT)
Week 17 - vs Chiefs

I need to see the 3rd pre-season game to know for sure. Bump this thread after that game. Then I can assess. For now Lose to the Giants, Chiefs, Pats, Bengals, Colts. 11-5

[slim]

It's a tough schedule, but I can't bring myself to say "we'll lose to __________". Can't.

It's easy if you hate the Broncos, like MO.

[BroncoJoe]

Injuries on defense has me worried, assuming Wolf, Crick and Walker aren't long term injuries, then I think something like this:

W - Week 1 - vs Chargers MNF late game
W - Week 2 - vs Cowboys
W - Week 3 - at Bills (11:00 MT)
L - Week 4 - vs Raiders
Week 5 - Bye
W - Week 6 - vs Giants SNF
L - Week 7 - at Chargers
L - Week 8 - at Chiefs MNF
W - Week 9 - at Eagles (11:00 MT)
W - Week 10 - vs Patriots SNF
W - Week 11 -vs Bengals
L - Week 12 - at Raiders
W - Week 13 - at Dolphins (11:00 MT)
W - Week 14 - vs Jets
L - Week 15 - at Colts TNF
W - Week 16 - at Redskins (11:00 MT)
W - Week 17 - vs Chiefs

11-5, but could easily swing anywhere from 9-7 to 12-4. I put the likelihood of worse than 9 wins or better than 12 as pretty unlikely. So, I'l call the 9-12 win range as 80% confidence and more like 65% confidence level in the 11 wins.

You really think we'll be swept by the Raiders and split with the Chargers? I think we split with the Raiders, sweep the Chargers and potentially Chiefs (probably a split though with the Chiefs).

[MOtorboat]

It's easy if you hate the Broncos, like MO.

Yep. That's it.

FTR, the Giants-Raiders stretch is a bitch.

[slim]

Yep. That's it.

FTR, the Giants-Raiders stretch is a bitch.

Yeah, it's gonna be a long year.

How's the 2018 QB class looking?

[Cugel]

Lots of injuries on defense, questions about the offensive line and below average quarterback play. Could it all come together? Sure, but right now, I think that's a fair, if not positive, assessment of where Denver is right now.

Basically this.

I think however, that there's no point in being pessimistic at this point in the pre-season. You know fans are going to be buzzing around like a swarm of angry bees after someone hit their nest - after a couple of losses in which Trevor does not play like Aaron Rogers.

So, there's no point worrying about it now.

Right now, I saw some signs of improvement in the run game. The run defense should be better based on the personnel they've acquired, although if they keep suffering injuries to their front 7 that's problematic.

Garrett Bolles, much against most expert NFL commentary, looks to be solid at the LT spot. For now. Right tackle seems more of a problem than left. They have a glut of good running backs, although no star RB like Dallas' Elliot. So much so that it's conceivable that Jamal Charles might not make the 53 man roster (although I think he will).

As for the passing game, we've gone round and round on Trevor and Paxton. No point rehashing that.

The biggest question is whether the pass defense will hold up. Right now every pass-rushing threat outside of Von Miller has been negated. They lost Malik Jackson as a penetrating DE pressure player and never replaced him. DeMarcus Ware retired. They tried to sign Calais Campbell during the offseason but failed. And Shane Ray and Shaqil Barrett have varying injuries. Right now the Broncos pass-rush is Von, and teams will double or triple team him every play until Denver proves they have a serious pass-rushing threat on the other side of the line.

[MOtorboat]

Yeah, it's gonna be a long year.

How's the 2018 QB class looking?

Potentially Lamar Jackson (Louisville), Sam Darnold (USC), Josh Rosen (UCLA), Jake Browning (Washington) and J.T. Barrett (Ohio State) are among the top quarterbacks in college. Not sure how they transfer to the NFL. Darnold is a sophomore, not sure if he's eligible to come out this year or not. Rosen and Browning are juniors, but could potentially come out of college this year.

[Hawgdriver]

Potentially Lamar Jackson (Louisville), Sam Darnold (USC), Josh Rosen (UCLA), Jake Browning (Washington) and J.T. Barrett (Ohio State) are among the top quarterbacks in college. Not sure how they transfer to the NFL. Darnold is a sophomore, not sure if he's eligible to come out this year or not. Rosen and Browning are juniors, but could potentially come out of college this year.

I haven't followed this enough, but I was really impressed by what I saw in Darnold.

[Cugel]

Potentially Lamar Jackson (Louisville), Sam Darnold (USC), Josh Rosen (UCLA), Jake Browning (Washington) and J.T. Barrett (Ohio State) are among the top quarterbacks in college. Not sure how they transfer to the NFL. Darnold is a sophomore, not sure if he's eligible to come out this year or not. Rosen and Browning are juniors, but could potentially come out of college this year.

There's no point in this because right now we don't know what players are coming out. And we don't know how any of these QBs will look after another college season. Sometimes a guy comes back for a senior season and his draft stock goes down.

And besides it's getting harder and harder to tell who's going to be any good in the NFL because college football is getting more and more unlike the NFL with all their spread offenses and QBs operating out of the shot-gun all the time. We're seeing that with Paxton. Highly touted first round pick, and two years in and he's still not ready.

Meanwhile Dak Prescott and Mitch Trebisky look to be instant successes, and neither was a first round pick. Or second round either. Normally both would be after-thoughts in the NFL, but it's a new world now.

[MOtorboat]

I haven't followed this enough, but I was really impressed by what I saw in Darnold.

He's been pretty impressive. The Rose Bowl was an impressive offensive game all-around, and that's the probably the USC game I watched the most of last year. He's Phil Steele's top NFL prospect, which must mean he's a redshirt sophomore and eligible to enter the draft this year.

[Davii]

I have complete confidence that we won't be 16-0, nor will we be 0-16. I would think we'll be somewhere between those two, so.... 1-15 wins and I'm also certain that we could make an algebraic formula like W + L = 16 to figure out how many times we lose once we know how many times we've won. I predict this prediction is accurate, completely, 100%, with 85% certainty.

[underrated29]

Mitch trubisky was the 2nd overall pick Cugel. The bears sold the farm to move up 1 pick for him when they didnt need to do so.


As for 2018 Qbs....Our guy is already on the roster. He goes by the name of Chad Kelly Kyle Sloter. My money is on Kelly.

[Tned]

You really think we'll be swept by the Raiders and split with the Chargers? I think we split with the Raiders, sweep the Chargers and potentially Chiefs (probably a split though with the Chiefs).

No, to be honest the matchups are really hard to fully call. So, I tend to focus as much on likely streaks (can the team go four or five straight to start a season). Then, things like what teams have we struggled against of late or dominated. For instance, as good as the Pats are, our defense has really had our way with Brady.

We have struggled at times with the Raiders and they have a good pass rush (yet to see evidence pass protection is much better) and could have a good running game. So, on a matchup basis, they could hurt us. Could just as easily be a win at Chiefs and loss at Phi or Pats.

I don't really expect us to lose to the raiders at home, but I'm also not sure I can confidently think we will start off 4-0, so when I look at streaks, which team do I think we are most likely to lose within a stretch. I think our defense has their way with Dak, especially if Prescott is gone. I think we take the home opener and win in Buffalo, so that leave the Raiders as the likely loss if we aren't going to go 4-0 to start the season.

Anyway, that's the method to my madness, which isn't exactly an exact science.

[NightTerror218]

Week 1 - vs Chargers MNF late game win
Week 2 - vs Cowboys loss
Week 3 - at Bills (11:00 MT) win
Week 4 - vs Raiders loss
Week 5 - Bye
Week 6 - vs Giants SNF loss
Week 7 - at Chargers win
Week 8 - at Chiefs MNF loss
Week 9 - at Eagles (11:00 MT) win
Week 10 - vs Patriots SNF loss
Week 11 -vs Bengals win
Week 12 - at Raiders loss
Week 13 - at Dolphins (11:00 MT) win
Week 14 - vs Jets win
Week 15 - at Colts TNF win
Week 16 - at Redskins (11:00 MT) win
Week 17 - vs Chiefs win

[Tned]

Mitch trubisky was the 2nd overall pick Cugel. The bears sold the farm to move up 1 pick for him when they didnt need to do so.


As for 2018 Qbs....Our guy is already on the roster. He goes by the name of Chad Kelly Kyle Sloter. My money is on Kelly.

#Kelly2018 He could be the next Dough Flutie.

[Timmy!]

10-6. Wildcard.

[BroncoJoe]

Anyway, that's the method to my madness, which isn't exactly an exact science.

None of it is at this point. That's why I always predict 16-0.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Potentially Lamar Jackson (Louisville), Sam Darnold (USC), Josh Rosen (UCLA), Jake Browning (Washington) and J.T. Barrett (Ohio State) are among the top quarterbacks in college. Not sure how they transfer to the NFL. Darnold is a sophomore, not sure if he's eligible to come out this year or not. Rosen and Browning are juniors, but could potentially come out of college this year.

Don't forget the dude from Wyoming. He might go first overall.

[Tned]

None of it is at this point. That's why I always predict 16-0.

Because of my belief in streaks, I then see the streak coming to an end in the playoffs, much better to be 15-1, lose week 17, and then go on three game winning streak and finish year 18-1!!!

[weazel]

I think they'll be lucky to be 7-9, supposed to be a great QB draft though.

[BroncoWave]

7-9, 8-8, probably miss the playoffs.

That's about where I am too. Too many questions at QB and the o-line, paired with a brutal schedule, to have confidence we're winning more than 8 at this point.

[BroncoJoe]

That's about where I am too. Too many questions at QB and the o-line, paired with a brutal schedule, to have confidence we're winning more than 8 at this point.

Slim?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOjSEW09NxE

[BroncoWave]

Just calling it like I see it. And to add on to what I laid out in the last post, the new coaching staff is a complete wildcard. VJ could be great or he could be a dud. Would it SHOCK me to see us win 10+ and make the playoffs? No, because we do have the talent to do so if enough things break our way. I just don't see it as the likeliest outcome. I'd obviously like to be proven wrong though.

[slim]

Just calling it like I see it. And to add on to what I laid out in the last post, the new coaching staff is a complete wildcard. VJ could be great or he could be a dud. Would it SHOCK me to see us win 10+ and make the playoffs? No, because we do have the talent to do so if enough things break our way. I just don't see it as the likeliest outcome. I'd obviously like to be proven wrong though.

You on the rist!

[Buff]

Here is my scientific analysis based on many hours of film study and pouring over camp reports:

Defense = good.
Offense = bad.

8-8

[Joel]

First losing season since McDumbass; the margin's only relevant for draft position. The D's not the same without Wade and Wares leadership backing up Texas swagger and, while I still contend Malik Jackson an overrated beneficiary of Von-Ware-Wolfe drawing double teams, waiting to see which injured second choice succeeds him is inauspicious. Even the No Fly Zone has lost a sold dimeback who was critical depth, and it remains to be seen if Doss or any of the rest can step up to fill that void.

Meanwhile, the offensive line and QB remain the same works in progress that forced the D to carry them for two years, which might be OK if that D were still elite, but....

Throw in an entirely new coaching staff, including a HC who's in that role for the first time EVER, after only a SINGLE season at even the coordinator level, and it doesn't look good, even before considering that McCoy is an extremely guilty recidivist at the very crimes (i.e. unimaginative predictability) of which Kubiak was falsely accused.

This is the sequel to the season that everyone convinced Lynch is The Future should be rooting for Siemian to take the starters beating just to prevent PERMANENTLY destroying the QBotFs mind and body. If reports out of camp that Lynch does great until he has a bad play, then goes into a funk, are even remotely true, this is the worst possible situation for him. Not that anyone's going to hold an NFL starters hand, but behind our line he's behind the 8-ball.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Here is my scientific analysis based on many hours of film study and pouring over camp reports:

Defense = good.
Offense = bad.

8-8
I have a slightly more in depth analysis

Defense = kick ass thunderfart awesome!
Offense = below average

10-6

[Magnificent Seven]

6-0 against AFC West Teams and win the AFCW Title unexpectedly.

LT Garett Bolles will give DE Khalil Mack some hard times.

[MOtorboat]

6-0 against AFC West Teams and win the AFCW Title unexpectedly.

LT Garett Bolles will give DE Khalil Mack some hard times.

I don't mean to be a downer here, but won't Mack be primarily matched up against Watson, though?

[Nomad]

Being optimistic.....10-6....a wild card

Being pessimistic.....6-10....no playoffs

[FanInAZ]

Week 2 - vs Cowboys loss

Did you remember to factored the Cowboys being without Ezekiel Elliott due to suspension?

[slim]

I don't mean to be a downer here, but won't Mack be primarily matched up against Watson, though?

Why do u hate the Broncos?

[MOtorboat]

Why do u hate the Broncos?

Hate. HATE!

[underrated29]

Just out of curiosity.....how do any of you see us as worse off than last year?

We added players, good players! If you need help: Bolles, McKenzie, hendersons, Carter, walker, peko, Kerr, Charles, etc.
We got rid of kubiaks lame old scheme
Trevor has another year- so does Paxton

How can we have gotten worse?

[slim]

Just out of curiosity.....how do any of you see us as worse off than last year?

We added players, good players! If you need help: Bolles, McKenzie, hendersons, Carter, walker, peko, Kerr, Charles, etc.
We got rid of kubiaks lame old scheme
Trevor has another year- so does Paxton

How can we have gotten worse?

The Slowick effect.

Also, don't talk shit about Kubes. Dude bleeds orange and won the ******* SB.

[underrated29]

The Slowick effect.

Also, don't talk shit about Kubes. Dude bleeds orange and won the ******* SB.



Woods ain't no slowick.
I love kubes. His scheme still sucked. No way around it.

[Hawgdriver]

How can we have gotten worse?

New coaching staff. New offensive scheme. No Ware. No Wade. Injuries on defense. Lack of depth. Offensive line. Schedule. QB play. Lack of leadership on offense.

[slim]

Woods ain't no slowick.


U hope.

[underrated29]

New coaching staff. New offensive scheme. No Ware. No Wade. Injuries on defense. Lack of depth. Offensive line. Schedule. QB play.


New coaching staff is better. Check
New offensive scheme is better. Check
Ware played like 6 games and like 20 snaps a game. We will miss him but not as badly as it seems
Wade- woods- we don't know. I feel the D will be same. Our players are soooo good
And the Injuries on D will be back by week 1 or week 2
Lack of depth where? Show me where it's worse than last year?
Offensive line is better than last year. Check!
Schedule is easier this year. Check!
Qb play won't be any worse than last year. Check.


How did we get worse again?

[Tned]

Hate. HATE!

All that hates gone burn you up, kid... It keeps me warm at night...

[FanInAZ]

All that hates gone burn you up, kid... It keeps me warm at night...

So your next avatar is going to be a wolverine?

[underrated29]

U hope.

We saw slowick right away. Woods ain't that. We look good. What we don't look is all time shitty

[Tned]

Just out of curiosity.....how do any of you see us as worse off than last year?

We added players, good players! If you need help: Bolles, McKenzie, hendersons, Carter, walker, peko, Kerr, Charles, etc.
We got rid of kubiaks lame old scheme
Trevor has another year- so does Paxton

How can we have gotten worse?

I'm with you. Granted, the injuries piling up on the front seven is pretty concerning, but certainly before that, the team is better at pretty much every position.

Secondary - same, or possibly improved in dime.
D-line - Bigger improved before injury
Linebackers -- even to slightly worse before injuries, but now could be in bad shape depending on when Shaq/ray get back.
Oline - improved
Running backs - improved
TEs - same to improved (if Jeff/Virgil are healthy + Derby all year)
WRs -- Same or likely slightly improved. Addition by subtraction (Norwood)
Punt return - too early to tell, but this should be even to better
QBs -- even to better, considering both of them have another year under their belt.

So, again, recent injuries to front seven aside, it's hard to make a case for why this team will be worse than last year, especially based on the fact that McCoy's offense will likely be a much better fit for this team than Kubiak's.

[Tned]

So your next avatar is going to be a wolverine?

My dogs crap out wolverine's after they eat them for breakfast --- early dogs (err, birds) get the worm, Colonel.

[FanInAZ]

My dogs crap out wolverine's after they eat them for breakfast --- early dogs (err, birds) get the worm, Colonel.

His short involvement was the best part of the movie. In fact, all of the best lines came during dialog that he was part of.

[Hawgdriver]

New coaching staff is better. Check
New offensive scheme is better. Check
Ware played like 6 games and like 20 snaps a game. We will miss him but not as badly as it seems
Wade- woods- we don't know. I feel the D will be same. Our players are soooo good
And the Injuries on D will be back by week 1 or week 2
Lack of depth where? Show me where it's worse than last year?
Offensive line is better than last year. Check!
Schedule is easier this year. Check!
Qb play won't be any worse than last year. Check.


How did we get worse again?

We have no idea if the new staff is better. They haven't gone into battle yet. Plus, it's a new staff. The transition and turnover itself is an issue, all sorts of little frictions that go away after a unit has gelled.

The scheme might be better, I think it is, but it's new and takes time to master.

Wade and Ware were great leaders and coaches, you can't not miss that. I think they will pick without much of a drop, but leadership--or lack of it--shows up at weird times if you know what I mean.

Injuries are probably not going to be a long term hamstring so to speak, but it's still an issue.

Lack of depth at LB and interior D line, TE, WR, OL.

O-line may be better than last year, guess we'll see. I'm skeptical.

Schedule is harder.

QB play may or may not be better in the new scheme with the new line. I expect it to be better if it's Trevor, less optimistic if Lynch, so I probably shouldn't include it in a response to top's question, but it's a reason why I don't see the Broncos as a playoff favorite.

[Magnificent Seven]

I don't mean to be a downer here, but won't Mack be primarily matched up against Watson, though?

I think Mack is RDE.

[NightTerror218]

I know we have a ton of injured on dline....dont forget that some will be back after only a couple missed weeks. More importantly we are seeing how deep our d line is. I keep hearing about Kerr killing it. We still have peko. Wolfe should be back week 1. Depth will be scary for a couple weeks but we are deep on d line and we have von fricking Miller.

[MOtorboat]

Just out of curiosity.....how do any of you see us as worse off than last year?

We added players, good players! If you need help: Bolles, McKenzie, hendersons, Carter, walker, peko, Kerr, Charles, etc.
We got rid of kubiaks lame old scheme
Trevor has another year- so does Paxton

How can we have gotten worse?

We have the fourth-best quarterback in the division. To me, that's just a real problem. Not the only problem, but a real problem.

[underrated29]

We have the fourth-best quarterback in the division. To me, that's just a real problem. Not the only problem, but a real problem.

I agree
But we did last year too

[Shazam!]

It it too early to see how the OLine fares. I need to see IF they can protect whomever is back there. If they are not improved, its going to be a tough season.

Too many 3 and Outs.

[underrated29]

We have no idea if the new staff is better. They haven't gone into battle yet. Plus, it's a new staff. The transition and turnover itself is an issue, all sorts of little frictions that go away after a unit has gelled.

The scheme might be better, I think it is, but it's new and takes time to master.

Wade and Ware were great leaders and coaches, you can't not miss that. I think they will pick without much of a drop, but leadership--or lack of it--shows up at weird times if you know what I mean.

Injuries are probably not going to be a long term hamstring so to speak, but it's still an issue.

Lack of depth at LB and interior D line, TE, WR, OL.

O-line may be better than last year, guess we'll see. I'm skeptical.

Schedule is harder.

QB play may or may not be better in the new scheme with the new line. I expect it to be better if it's Trevor, less optimistic if Lynch, so I probably shouldn't include it in a response to top's question, but it's a reason why I don't see the Broncos as a playoff favorite.



Staff, frictions, yes....Thatll happen. But the scheme is better than kubiaks. We went from #1 offense in NFL to almost dead last and #4 in most 3 and outs. That scheme is gone. We are improved. Mastered or not it is improved. Across the board. We are now fighting with both hands instead of just our left.

Depth- LB it is tremendous!! Not sure what you are talking about here. Von, Shane, Shaq (both will be back by week 1 or 2), Kasim, Walker (stud rookie-rather see him on DL personally), Marshall, Davis, Nelson, and the CFA Carter!! This kid has been turning heads and I watched him exclusively in pre-season game 1. He has a lot of promise! Reminds me of the non shitty Ian Gold. He will make the team! I have no doubt!

OL depth is better here too. We added Bolles (starter), Leary (starter) Watson (starter) Barbre (about to be starter)...Mcgovern is making a real strong push to be the Starting RG and send Leary back to LG too. Mcgovern already has C on lock down should paradis not be able to go. We have so much more depth that Scofield will likely not make the team this year. That is good depth- at least, from what we had last year.

TE- Butt is HUGE but he wont be that huge until end of the season and likely not much then either. We are the same as last year more or less. Slight improvement because of Butt.

WR- HUGE Drastic improvement here!! Mckenzie is lighting it up!! Latimer is doing his thing now that we dont have just 2wr sets. He looks good. Fowler is looking good. Sunshine likely wont make the squad after Henderson comes back, but I bet he does until Henderson is back. Henderson is huge!!!! Dude has been playing with a thumb thats so jacked he needed surgery. He wont be dropping balls and whatnot once hes back, plus the guy looks good when people try to tackle him. Nash- is the CFA and he will make the PS I am sure. I like him as a developer. WR is loaded. Probably our best position aside from CB and RB.

DL Im with you here, but its not worse than last year. So we cant say we are worse now because it did not improve.

Schedule is not harder amigo

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

U- "Butt is huge".

[underrated29]

I like it when my subleties dont go unnoticed.

[slim]

I like it when my subleties dont go unnoticed.

I like it when you try to spell subtleties.

[Hawgdriver]

CFA Carter!! This kid has been turning heads and I watched him exclusively in pre-season game 1. He has a lot of promise! Reminds me of the non shitty Ian Gold. He will make the team! I have no doubt!

#20 Jamal? Or a different guy. He's listed as a S right? I heard some talk about his role being more of a hybrid S/LB guy.

Love the enthusiam bro.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I like our depth at OLB. I don't like it at ILB.

[Freyaka]

What will their record be this season and how deep do they go in the playoffs... if they make it?



Week 1 - vs Chargers Win 32-28
Week 2 - vs Cowboys Win 24-20
Week 3 - at Bills win 24-10
Week 4 - vs Raiders loss 17-20
Week 5 - Bye loss 1000-0
Week 6 - vs Giants Win 24-16
Week 7 - at Chargers Loss 14-27
Week 8 - at Chiefs We better fricken win this, I'll be there 30-10
Week 9 - at Eagles win 24-19
Week 10 - vs Patriots loss (hate to call this a loss, but I just think it is)
Week 11 -vs Bengals Win 26-24
Week 12 - at Raiders loss 10-17
Week 13 - at Dolphins win 30-10
Week 14 - vs Jets win 38-17
Week 15 - at Colts loss 24-30
Week 16 - at Redskins win 24-20
Week 17 - vs Chiefs loss 20-27

I think we finish 10-6 and get either wildcard or miss the playoffs. Raiders win the division.

[Cugel]

Woods ain't no slowick.
I love kubes. His scheme still sucked. No way around it.

The scheme doesn't suck - IF you have the personnel to implement it, but they didn't. The '97-'98 teams had Hall of Famer Gary Zimmerman and Tony Jones as Tackles, Tom Nalen, Mark Schlereth and Dan Neil. Every single one of those guys was better than any Broncos current OL!

I don't know why they insisted on using it when they had garbage OL but it didn't work.

[underrated29]

#20 Jamal? Or a different guy. He's listed as a S right? I heard some talk about his role being more of a hybrid S/LB guy.

Love the enthusiam bro.



Yes, that is the guy. Watch him tomorrow!

[Hawgdriver]

Yes, that is the guy. Watch him tomorrow!

He killed it last week.

[underrated29]

I like it when you try to spell subtleties.

Hate my phone not my grammar you subtle sob

[Tned]

Hate my phone not my grammar you subtle sob

Slim is the newest member of the grammar Nazi patrol.

[MOtorboat]

UR sublets his brain.

[FanInAZ]

Slim is the newest member of the grammar Nazi patrol.

MO & Slim teaming up for a common cause, this won't end well :shocked:

[MOtorboat]

MO & Slim teaming up for a common cause, this won't end well :shocked:

We are brothers. I will not suffer this indignant accusation.

[FanInAZ]

We are brothers. I will not suffer this indignant accusation.

As in Cain & Able :D

[underrated29]

We are brothers. I will not suffer this indignant accusation.

You will suffer AZ

[underrated29]

UR sublets his brain.

And his meat stick to your mom. Don't tell anyone though. He might incorrectly spell you're gay.

[Tned]

We are brothers. I will not suffer this indignant accusation.

Very subtel.

[FanInAZ]

You will suffer AZ

Only for about another couple of month or so, winters here are paradise compared to what you have to deal with :D

[dogfish]

Slim is the newest member of the grammar Nazi patrol.

the preferred nomenclature is Alt-Write. . .

[Joel]

I'm with you. Granted, the injuries piling up on the front seven is pretty concerning, but certainly before that, the team is better at pretty much every position.

Secondary - same, or possibly improved in dime.
How? Do we even know who our dimeback IS right now? If not, that strongly suggests he won't be an upgrade from Webster; I believe our choices are Doss or a rookie.


D-line - Bigger improved before injury
Bigger, yes, but whether it was improved depends on whether 1) Peko the Elder has any decent games left and 2) how much one credits beat reporters at camp. Regardless, the injuries are real and if everyone's expected to recover, playing at the core of a full contact sport makes serious injuries more common on the line, so we're probably just looking at designated starters returning just in time to take over from their beat up

Linebackers -- even to slightly worse before injuries, but now could be in bad shape depending on when Shaq/ray get back.
It's hard to see how even a healthy Ray was an improvement on even a rotational Ware. But since Ray was the other half of that rotation, it's an even simpler equation: Was Ware+Ray>Ware+??? Gotta say, "yes," which just leaves us wondering whether Von+Shaq>Von+???, with the same answer.


Oline - improved
On paper—MAYBE. Okung's succeeded by an untested (if first round) rookie, so it's impossible to say whether our key blindside protector's better, but it'll probably be a while before he is, even with Von literally taking him to school every practice. Leary's a big improvement from Garcia and all other Denver LGs, and Paradis should be improved IF both hips are and remain healthy now. We have no more certainty of whom our starting RG is than last year, and it's also unsure whether Watson will be healthy enough to avoid having to start the same disappointing RT as last year.


Running backs - improved
Yeah, likely so, if only because Booker's got a year of NFL experience and even an injured aging Charles>Bibbs. But it's mostly the same guys.


TEs - same to improved (if Jeff/Virgil are healthy + Derby all year)
WRs -- Same or likely slightly improved. Addition by subtraction (Norwood)
Both are really a lot like the H/FB positions in terms of improvement: We cut dead weight and returning young players have more experience.


Punt return - too early to tell, but this should be even to better
We'll see; through a single preseason game (not that I'm prepared to hang my hat on THAT) all we've seen is a bad case of dropsy.


QBs -- even to better, considering both of them have another year under their belt.
True, but they have a new HC, new OC and only a couple returning linemen (if that) all of which tends to offset gains in their personal NFL experience. Which incidentally goes for the youngsters at RB also, and even at TE and WR to a lesser extent.


So, again, recent injuries to front seven aside, it's hard to make a case for why this team will be worse than last year, especially based on the fact that McCoy's offense will likely be a much better fit for this team than Kubiak's.
If there were ANY offensive scheme better suited to last years team than the one we ran, you can bet Kubiak and Dennison would've run it instead. It's not like either has any historical hesitation to run other offenses, with more success than the one they ran last year (even though it was also FAR more successful for them literally EVERYWHERE ELSE they've run it.)

Last years Broncos ran a simple run-first scheme that minimized mistakes because that was the best use of our talent. "Best" in both the sense of not setting unattainable goals for our young backs and blockers and of keep the score low enough our D could win the game by allowing few yards and forcing many turnovers. I don't see how much of that has changed, except in that FA and retirement further weakened our D and we have a new HC and offensive staff that may or may not be able to do more with new blockers and QBs that only gained a single year of (mostly bad) experience.


We have no idea if the new staff is better. They haven't gone into battle yet. Plus, it's a new staff. The transition and turnover itself is an issue, all sorts of little frictions that go away after a unit has gelled.
Not sure if this is what you meant, but they aren't just untested as Broncos, but AT ALL: McCoy's the only one who's ever held his current position with any team, and our HC only has a single-seasons experience as even a coordinator—for a D that ranked 18th in points and 29th in yards, getting shredded by Rapistburger last January. Preemptively declaring that "improvement" over guys that have SB Rings and a slew of playoff wins is premature.


The scheme might be better, I think it is, but it's new and takes time to master.
The scheme was never the problem, only a symptom of the real deeper problem: Lack of ability. EVERY SINGLE OTHER OFFENSE Kubiak and Dennison led had highly successful and versatile schemes, whether with the precision pocket passing of Griese and Schaub or gunslingers like Steve Young, John Elway and Joe Flacco. We can say Young and Elway were first ballot HoFers, but both were SB 0fers before Kubiaks "limited" offense.


Wade and Ware were great leaders and coaches, you can't not miss that. I think they will pick without much of a drop, but leadership--or lack of it--shows up at weird times if you know what I mean.
Nothing against Woods, but it's hard to say replacing a HoF DC with a first-time DC is a net gain. Likewise, nothing against Ray, but it's equally hard to say replacing a HoF OLB with a 3rd-year guy who only has a half seasons worth of starts is a net gain.


Injuries are probably not going to be a long term hamstring so to speak, but it's still an issue.

Lack of depth at LB and interior D line, TE, WR, OL.

O-line may be better than last year, guess we'll see. I'm skeptical.
Even if it is, it'll take time to "gel" (even if that word's overused at this point) especially with a whole new scheme and coaching staff.

The depth issues mostly boil down to the totality of being a perennial contender that finally achieved its championship dream two years ago: We lost a LOT of quality key players en route (e.g. Ware, Knighton, Woodyard, Trevathan, Jackson and now Webster, who was never a starter but was our designated dimeback, first alternate CB and a key STer.) It remains to be seen if a bunch of young untested players and waiver wire rejects can replace them.

How long have we struggled to find a second starting ILB? Since Trevathan left for more money.

How long have we struggled to find even a FIRST starting NT? Since Potroast left for more money. Sly was enough during the SB run, but only because Wolfe and Jackson/Vance Walker on each side helped him solidify our defense against runs up the gut; even they might not have been enough in an earlier, less pass-obsessed, era.

How long have we struggled to find a second starting DE? Since we lost Jackson for money and Walker to injury; no surprise that Sly slumped badly in their absence and has been replaced by an aging Peko and green Peko.

Who'll step up if/when Talib, Harris and/or Roby get hurt (or suspended...)? Until now, Webster was the immediate answer, just as he was first on the field as a dimeback, and the guy who tackled speedy Ted Ginn Jr. for a -1 yd punt return to Carolinas 15, setting up what became SB history just 3 plays later (anyone who thinks that punt coverage didn't matter should recall how well our offense moved that game: Recovering the fumble in the end zone was the only way it was likely to get there.)

That's just on defense, where Wades understudy must show he's ready for center stage despite an inferior supporting cast.


Schedule is harder.
Now, there I'm not so sure. First and foremost, because the best/worst teams of any given season correlate very weakly with those immediately previous. I doubt the Rest of the West is significantly better/worse, so let's just look at our inter-division and interconference schedule:

Is the NFCE tougher competition than the NFCS? Last years NFCS had the defending Conference champs AND their successor; the NFCE had a single great offense and the WC Giants team with a first-year first-time HC (the Eagles also had a first-year first-time HC.) At worst, it's a push, though the Panthers going from #1 seed and SB favorite to 6-10 shows just how unreliable predictions based on most recent finish are.

Is the AFCE tougher than the AFCS? Probably, but only because of the Cheatriots, and that in turn depends on whether Brady starts showing his age (he turned 40 a couple weeks ago.) The Dolphins (briefly) made the playoffs, but the Titans finished literally right behind them and right ahead of us. The Colts and Bills finished the same way (with only Baltimore between us and them) and then we're down to comparing the Jets to the Jags, who are pretty comparable as well.

That just leaves our 2015/6 counterparts in the remaining AFC divisions, but in 2016 we were playing fellow division champs, while in 2017 we'll be playing fellow third place finishers. Specifically, last year we faced the Cheatriots and Bengals, but this year it's the Colts and Bengals; anyone who'd rather play last years SB Champs than the Indianapolis Lucks is loopy.


QB play may or may not be better in the new scheme with the new line. I expect it to be better if it's Trevor, less optimistic if Lynch, so I probably shouldn't include it in a response to top's question, but it's a reason why I don't see the Broncos as a playoff favorite.
We're back to the same old issue: Our offensive problems don't start with the QBs, but merely end there because when all else fails we end up in 3rd and 17 hoping an inexperienced/limited QB can bail us out before the blitz overwhelms our line to crush him. I'd be optimistic about improvement if the whole unit had a full year of experience and rebuilding under an existing offensive scheme, but they're back to square one there.

[Poet]

Doss has been incredible. He's the shit!

[slim]

We are brothers. I will not suffer this indignant accusation.

Werd. Let's burn this mother down!

[MOtorboat]

Werd. Let's burn this mother down!

It's Saturday. I don't feel like it.

[Poet]

Werd. Let's burn this mother down!

I've been briefing cases all damn day! LET'S GO!!!!!!!

[dogfish]

Werd. Let's burn this mother down!
just wait til after the game, okay?

[Joel]

It's Saturday. I don't feel like it.
Whatever happened to revolution for the Hell of it?
Whatever happened to protesting nothing in particular?
Just protesting, 'cause It's Saturday (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=351wGhomUNI), and there's nothing else to do?

[slim]

just wait til after the game, okay?

I will start drinking about an hour before kickoff.

Prepare yourself.

[MOtorboat]

I will start drinking about an hour before kickoff.

Prepare yourself.

You're waiting a long time today. I was expecting drunk slim by about now.

[Nomad]

I will start drinking about an hour before kickoff.

Prepare yourself.

Lemon iced water is good.

[slim]

You're waiting a long time today. I was expecting drunk slim by about now.

I am pacing myself.

[MOtorboat]

I am pacing myself.

It's preseason. No need to remember. I, unfortunately, probably won't get a drink till the second half.

[slim]

It's preseason. No need to remember. I, unfortunately, probably won't get a drink till the second half.

Sounds gay.

[slim]

King, let's do this

[Poet]

King, let's do this

I'm very drunk and just sent an inappropriate text.

[slim]

I'm very drunk and just sent an inappropriate text.

Was it a pic of your junk?

[slim]

Did u send it to MO?

[Poet]

Did u send it to MO?

No. It doesn't ******* matter - this shit is a god damned joke. Mother ******s don't know shit about logistics in this bitch. **** rhinos.

[Cugel]

Latest from 9News Broncos insider Mike Klis: Pending cuts of veterans: Ty Sambrailo, who never recovered from elbow and shoulder injuries, and Michael Schofield, who just sucks.

I feel badly for Sambrailo, who was briefly looking like the Broncos LT starter, but then tore up his shoulder. They rushed him back and he got hurt again. Somehow he's never been any good since then.

[Hawgdriver]

Sucks for Ty Sam.

And cutting Schofield makes me cautiously optimistic about this year's O-line. If he's replacement level, then the waters have certainly risen.

[underrated29]

I still like Tysam as a G, but heh- see ya chumps. Thanks FO for the lovely 2nd adn 3rd picks. You konw who probably could have been had for those two picks?????


Me either, but someone good, Im tellin ya!

[dogfish]

man, we badly need to make some type of move at tackle. . . watson has never stayed healthy, and if he does get dinged we're right back to donald "one of the worst tackles in the league" stephenson at RT-- with a rookie at LT. . . roinks, raggy! i wonder if barbre has enough left to play RT at a higher level than DS? fingers crossed that bowles will solidify the left side, but the right still looks like a possible weakness-- with the potential to turn into an anchor on the offense again. . . i don't care which side they ultimately put him on-- we need leary to come in and play at a high level right away. . . we still could be much improved if things play out right, but IMO it looks like the OL rebuilding project isn't finished just yet. . . i'd be happy to see them spend another high pick on OT next year, even if watson does hold up and play well. . .

[Cugel]

When you are tempted to think the Broncos might possibly have a losing season, there's always the Chargers to lift your spirits. Here's what some of their fans have to say about the organization:


"Here’s the thing about the Chargers as an organization: **** the Chargers. Double **** the entire Spanos family. Here’s a relocation idea: put them all into a rocket ship and shoot them directly at the sun."


Robert:

I put up with their bullshit for all of my life and they just up and left town. So Dean Spanos can get a burning taint rash and I hope they go 0-16.


Brett:

Watching this team leave for LA has been the spiritual equivalent of passing a 55-year-old kidney stone except the kidney stone’s net worth increased by 2 billion dollars for its exit.


James:

Anyone still wearing Chargers gear in San Diego should be thrown off the Coronado Bridge.

Justin Halpern:

People keep asking me if I’m going to still root for the Chargers now and I say no. And then they say “But what if they ******* kill it this year!” and then I know I’m talking to someone who has a child’s mind and has never actually watched one moment of Chargers football. Look, if they went to the Super Bowl and old Phil was throwing touchdowns to Demarcus Orange (This is not a real player but by the end of the year, when EVERY SINGLE ******* SKILL PLAYER ON THE CHARGERS IS INJURED, I promise you he will be throwing to a wide receiver who is named something like this), then yeah, I’m only ******* human, I will probably end up rooting for the team that I have obsessed over for thirty plus years. And I will not feel guilty about it, because why the **** do I not deserve joy?

But here’s the thing: IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. The Chargers CAN NEVER NOT CHARGER. For ****’s sake, the coach tried to stop Antonio Gates from going to LT’s Hall Of Fame ceremony because it would conflict with practice. Antonio Gates is 37 and is capable of running three yards and then turning just as a football lands in his stomach. You don’t need to practice that shit. I previously thought the Hall Of Fame ceremony for maybe your greatest player was an un-****-upable situation, but the Chargers found a way to **** it up!

Having said that I will root for them if they set the world on fire, let me tell you about the other side of that coin. When they are 4-7 after having the lead in the fourth quarter of all eleven games, and the Stub Hub center is filled entirely of opposing fans, my dick will never be harder. I hope they cut to Spanos’ pothole-filled ******* face more than they’ve ever cut to anyone in the history of any broadcast ever. Seeing him realize he’s such a ******* nobody will be the greatest pleasure this NFL season could bring me, FAR more than a Chargers Super Bowl victory.

And here's the best one:


William:

What happens if there are no Chargers fans? If the Chargers suck in LA and nobody is around to see it, do they not still suck?

[FanInAZ]

When you are tempted to think the Broncos might possibly have a losing season, there's always the Chargers to lift your spirits. Here's what some of their fans have to say about the organization:









And here's the best one:

I don't have any off-site contact info for the 3 or 4 Chargers' fans that use to frequent this site, has anyone who does done a welfare check on them lately :lol:

[Cugel]

I don't have any off-site contact info for the 3 or 4 Chargers' fans that use to frequent this site, has anyone who does done a welfare check on them lately :lol:

Oh, snap! Shots fired! Across the bow! Chargers fans taking on water! Abandoning sinking ship! :2thumbs:

That might be the most dysfunctional franchise in the NFL, the Spanos family and the way they treated their fans was despicable. They have had some good coaches and good players from time to time, but they have an idiot who is large and in charge, so they will never win. You know the fish rots from the head. That's why I don't believe the Chargers will ever get it right.

"The Chargers can never NOT Charger!" By which delightful term, he means they can never not **** up!

.

[iLands]

We have the fourth-best quarterback in the division. To me, that's just a real problem. Not the only problem, but a real problem.

We have the best quarterback in the division. He plays for free.

[MOtorboat]

We have the best quarterback in the division. He plays for free.

That's a shitty way to build a franchise.

[iLands]

That's a shitty way to build a franchise.

You're right. Let's cut Von Miller so we can afford one.

[MOtorboat]

You're right. Let's cut Von Miller so we can afford one.

Yeah. That makes sense.

[iLands]

Yeah. That makes sense.



You need to find 24.5 million in cap somewhere. That's cutting DT, allowing TJ to walk, and still needing to shed another six million.

[Tned]

That's a shitty way to build a franchise.

Well, Elway's thoughts on the matter:


"There are not quarterbacks grown on trees out there so there wasn’t another answer. So with that being said, I like the guys that we have because I know talent wise they can do it, it’s just a matter of they need the time and experience and with that they’ll continue to get better."

[MOtorboat]

You need to find 24.5 million in cap somewhere. That's cutting DT, allowing TJ to walk, and still needing to shed another six million.

As what I said was directly reflected in what this team is currently, I'm not going to get too deep into a team building discussion, but teams with quarterbacks who don't make the minimum also have superstars. Denver was one two years ago. And all those guys you want to cut in this above sentence were on that team. So forgive me if I just kind of laugh at the direction you're trying to take this conversation. Had Elway gone out and paid a quarterback (there was only one and he chose not to, so my prediction was based on who is on the team), Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas would not have been cut. I guarantee that.

[iLands]

As what I said was directly reflected in what this team is currently, I'm not going to get too deep into a team building discussion, but teams with quarterbacks who don't make the minimum also have superstars. Denver was one two years ago...


Moving from the hypothetical to reality, the reality is that we get a hell of a lot of cap because of 13. We value that differently and that is pretty clear. Fans often have different priorities and you and I have over the years as well.

If you're really making the claim though that you'd rather pay Alex Smith 18 million instead of paying Trevor .6 million, then I don't believe you. If that's what you really believe, I understand why you're down on this upcoming season.

I'm not down on the season because we're paying our quarterback nothing. We can afford to surround him with some serious talent and we have.

Here's to the next season. :salute:

[MOtorboat]

My original statement had zero consideration of compensation. And I have zero regrets about that.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by MOtorboat View Post
We have the fourth-best quarterback in the division. To me, that's just a real problem. Not the only problem, but a real problem.

John Elway is obsessed with this question. That's why he drafted Paxton and insisted that the Broncos have a QB competition, even though Trevor was the incumbent starter and wasn't earning too much $. He knows what every SB champion, virtually without exception, has a top 10 if not Hall of Fame QB. Looking at the roster of SB winning QBs and it's a tedious exercise: "Brady, Manning, Brady, Russell Wilson, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Tom Brady, Tom Brady, Tom Brady, Tom Brady, Tom Brady, Tom Brady, Tom Brady Tom Brady, Tom Brady. [Sorry about that: got carried away. It only seems like Brady won every super bowl.]

Starting to see a trend? Elway sees it and he wants a QB like one of those. Since most of those guys are Hall of Famers and the rest are top 10 QBs (every one of them is significantly better than Trevor right now), the best he can probably hope is that he can get a QB like Wilson, Eli Manning or Joe Flacco. [You can HOPE to get a Hall of Fame QB, but they are few and far between and even if you knew in advance that a guy would be a multiple Super Bowl winning Hall of Fame QB, most likely you could never draft him anyway (ex: Peyton Manning #1 overall to the Colts).]

Or to compete in this division, Derek Carr. So, Trevor has ONE more season as starter to prove that he is on his way to becoming the next Derek Carr. He doesn't have to get there this year, but he has to FLASH! He has to convince people that if we just stick with that guy he'll be able to lead us to a SB!

So far Trevor has not ever done this, but he has the chance to do so this season. If so, then they sign him to a long term contract after this season paying him $16M a year or something. If not, then goodbye Trevor! Hello Chad Kelly and 2018 first round draft pick! :wave:

[MOtorboat]

Every GM is obsessed with that question. They should be.

[Poet]

I want a franchise QB. And a burger!

[slim]

TS is a FQB!!

Let's ride!

[Tned]

I want a franchise QB. And a burger!

So does probably 23 other GMs (both wanting a franchise QB and a burger.

[Magnificent Seven]

Did anyone change her/his mind about Broncos vs. Patriots game? Edelman is out for a year. Broncos win this game?

[slim]

Did anyone change her/his mind about Broncos vs. Patriots game? Edelman is out for a year. Broncos win this game?

Of course the Broncos will win. Edelman wouldn't make a difference.

**** the Patriots!

[MOtorboat]

Did anyone change her/his mind about Broncos vs. Patriots game? Edelman is out for a year. Broncos win this game?

Is Brady hurt? Then no.

[slim]

Is Brady hurt? Then no.

Why do you hate the Broncos?

[Poet]

Is Brady hurt? Then no.

Broncos by 3.

It's gonna be a crazyone.

[MOtorboat]

Why do you hate the Broncos?

I don't think believeing the Patriots are better than the Broncos is hating the Broncos.

[slim]

I don't think believeing the Patriots are better than the Broncos is hating the Broncos.

**** the Patriots!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Did anyone change her/his mind about Broncos vs. Patriots game? Edelman is out for a year. Broncos win this game?

No, the Patriots have Cooks now. Denver still struggles with small speed receivers because Talib and Harris don't have great top end speed. Then there's still the problem of dealing with possibly the most dominant TE to ever play the game

[slim]

No, the Patriots have Cooks now. Denver still struggles with small speed receivers because Talib and Harris don't have great top end speed. Then there's still the problem of dealing with possibly the most dominant TE to ever play the game

Assuming that TE is healthy enough to play. I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Assuming that TE is healthy enough to play. I wouldn't hold my breath.

I would say if Gronk doesn't play we have a punchers chance since it's at home. I would say not a chance in Hades if it was in NE.

[MOtorboat]

**** the Patriots!

I agree. It's only a matter of time before we figure out how they cheated in 2016. #cheaters.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Mo and I are in agreement. What the freak is happening here?!

[Canmore]

No, the Patriots have Cooks now. Denver still struggles with small speed receivers because Talib and Harris don't have great top end speed. Then there's still the problem of dealing with possibly the most dominant TE to ever play the game

He'll be out again by then.

[iLands]

I think we'll have a much better picture after we see Jamaal tonight.

[slim]

I agree. It's only a matter of time before we figure out how they cheated in 2016. #cheaters.

Thats more like it!!

[underrated29]

I just need to see the offense and confirm the type of plays they'll run for Charles. I'll make my prediction after I see the game. I still think we smoke the pats, but need to see tonoght....I don't care if we win or lose 50-0. I just need to see McCoy and the plays

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I just need to see the offense and confirm the type of plays they'll run for Charles. I'll make my prediction after I see the game. I still think we smoke the pats, but need to see tonoght....I don't care if we win or lose 50-0. I just need to see McCoy and the plays

I think Charles and Henderson will create problems for the Patriots because their linebackers struggle with speed players, traditionally speaking

[MOtorboat]

I just need to see the offense and confirm the type of plays they'll run for Charles. I'll make my prediction after I see the game. I still think we smoke the pats, but need to see tonoght....I don't care if we win or lose 50-0. I just need to see McCoy and the plays

Do you like screens?

[underrated29]

Do you like screens?

Love them actually! Love them. Called for them all the time to the RB and TE when Mccoy was busy calling Bubble screen after Bubble screen on 2nd and 6 or 3rd and 8. I just hope he learned something. Its pathetic when I am a better OC then he is/was (Please god be was! Please please please!!!)


So far this pre-season we have called about 4-5 RB screens. Some have worked. Some the blocking still isnt right, but we are calling them. SO I AM VERY HAPPY! Charles will own anyteam on plays like that. We have yet to call the DT bubble screen ( I think ). So we know he is trying to save those for Reg season. HOpefully he doesnt just call them on 2nd and 6 and 3rd and 8. He was just sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooo predictable.


Remember Sproles with the saints? That will be Charles here. ONly he will get more rushing duty because he is way better and because CJ always gets dinged up.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

McCoy is one of the best offensive minds in the game. Don't be silly.

[underrated29]

Do you like screens?

Not on submarines.




(that was the answer you were looking for wasnt it?)

[underrated29]

McCoy is one of the best offensive minds in the game. Don't be silly.

Satire??

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Satire??

In all seriousness, I do think he's an exceptional offensive mind. I'm not sure he's a great HC, but offensive coordinator and QB guru? Absolutely....

[underrated29]

In all seriousness, I do think he's an exceptional offensive mind. I'm not sure he's a great HC, but offensive coordinator and QB guru? Absolutely....

Hmmm...

[slim]

UR is the true offensive genius.

[MOtorboat]

UR is the true offensive genius.

He'll be cursing McCoy by week two.

[Hawgdriver]

That's a shitty way to build a franchise.

Maybe. Russell Wilson says hi.

[Hawgdriver]

Love them actually! Love them. Called for them all the time to the RB and TE when Mccoy was busy calling Bubble screen after Bubble screen on 2nd and 6 or 3rd and 8. I just hope he learned something. Its pathetic when I am a better OC then he is/was (Please god be was! Please please please!!!)


So far this pre-season we have called about 4-5 RB screens. Some have worked. Some the blocking still isnt right, but we are calling them. SO I AM VERY HAPPY! Charles will own anyteam on plays like that. We have yet to call the DT bubble screen ( I think ). So we know he is trying to save those for Reg season. HOpefully he doesnt just call them on 2nd and 6 and 3rd and 8. He was just sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooo predictable.


Remember Sproles with the saints? That will be Charles here. ONly he will get more rushing duty because he is way better and because CJ always gets dinged up.

Do you think part of your disdain comes from the over-reliance on them when Tebow was QB on account of the fact this it is the passing route that maximizes receiver talent and minimizes QB flaws?

[Poet]

Maybe. Russell Wilson says hi.

They ended up having to pay him and he turned into a good player. It's a rare occurrence. You love you some QB outlier stuff, though.

[Hawgdriver]

They ended up having to pay him and he turned into a good player. It's a rare occurrence. You love you some QB outlier stuff, though.

When a contradiction to an argument is presented, you don't say, nice outlier bro. You say yep, that's a contradiction to my argument.

[Poet]

When a contradiction to an argument is presented, you don't say, nice outlier bro. You say yep, that's a contradiction to my argument.

I played too much poker to chase outliers.

[Hawgdriver]

I played too much poker to chase outliers.

Carr says hi.

[Poet]

Carr says hi.

Carr was a first round talent who had no business being taken in the second round. And he just got paid earlier than they had to. Because he was going to get paid, and he needed time to develop into a guy who could take them to the playoffs. So, no, I don't think Carr works for the scenario that we're talking about.

Quick! Say that Dak says hi so I can shoot that one down, too.

[Hawgdriver]

Carr was a first round talent who had no business being taken in the second round. And he just got paid earlier than they had to. Because he was going to get paid, and he needed time to develop into a guy who could take them to the playoffs. So, no, I don't think Carr works for the scenario that we're talking about.

Quick! Say that Dak says hi so I can shoot that one down, too.

They are all paid very little until they prove themselves and get a nice 2d contract for a starting QB, which will likely happen to Trevor after a couple of years.

[Poet]

They are all paid very little until they prove themselves and get a nice 2d contract for a starting QB, which will likely happen to Trevor after a couple of years.

I have counter-arguments here, but this isn't a cut-and-dry thing. Carr broke the record for biggest QB contract. RW had a big thing in his deal as well, though I don't recall what it was. Might have been guaranteed money. TS will have to do a lot to end up with a historic contract from now until then. Right now he looks more like he'll get an Andy Dalton type of deal than a blockbuster.

[Tned]

Carr was a first round talent who had no business being taken in the second round.

So, why was he?

[Poet]

So, why was he?

He played at a shitty school and his brother scared teams off. A lot of analysts had him as a first rounder, but some said he was too raw.

[MOtorboat]

When a contradiction to an argument is presented, you don't say, nice outlier bro. You say yep, that's a contradiction to my argument.

Tom Brady as well. But you basically happen into building with a cheap quarterback. It's not something you set out to do.

[Tned]

He played at a shitty school and his brother scared teams off. A lot of analysts had him as a first rounder, but some said he was too raw.

And many analysts had Lynch as a 4th round talent. Drafting QBs is beyond a crap shoot. As we've established, Carr's first year starting was worse that Siemian's first year starting, and Carr's 2nd year starting was only marginally better than Siemian's first year starting. So, maybe Carr was over drafted going in the 2nd...

This hindsight evaluation just doesn't cut it. With it we know Brady should have been taken sooner and Leaf and Russel never. Bortles and Ponder way later, or never. The list goes on forever. Just look at the first and second round QBs drafted in the last 20 years.

Hindsight is 20/20, foresight in the NFL is just slightly better than a game of pin the tale on the donkey.

[Poet]

Tom Brady as well. But you basically happen into building with a cheap quarterback. It's not something you set out to do.

It's like having a great team and trying to find someone to not suck. That's what you're looking for. If they develop into a star, great, if not that's fine, too.

Both Flacco and Big Ben were drafted by all around great teams. One of those guys turned into someone who is arguably a HoFer. The other is...Joe Flacco. A lot of it is incidental.

[Tned]

Tom Brady as well. But you basically happen into building with a cheap quarterback. It's not something you set out to do.

What's that success percent on first/second round QBs again? Let's face it, except for the Colts with Luck, you can argue EVERY team with a franchise QB lucked into it (I guess Colts Lucked in as well) to some extent or another.

[MOtorboat]

What's that success percent on first/second round QBs again? Let's face it, except for the Colts with Luck, you can argue EVERY team with a franchise QB lucked into it (I guess Colts Lucked in as well) to some extent or another.

But you don't set up your team building philosophy with, "Get quarterback in seventh round." That is not part of anyone's plan. When you budget for position you don't ever say, "we'll go cheap at quarterback." The two examples listed here, Seattle and New England had signed Matt Flynn and already had Drew Bledsoe, both on big contracts.

[Poet]

And many analysts had Lynch as a 4th round talent. Drafting QBs is beyond a crap shoot. As we've established, Carr's first year starting was worse that Siemian's first year starting, and Carr's 2nd year starting was only marginally better than Siemian's first year starting. So, maybe Carr was over drafted going in the 2nd...

This hindsight evaluation just doesn't cut it. With it we know Brady should have been taken sooner and Leaf and Russel never. Bortles and Ponder way later, or never. The list goes on forever. Just look at the first and second round QBs drafted in the last 20 years.

Hindsight is 20/20, foresight in the NFL is just slightly better than a game of pin the tale on the donkey.

Almost every big analyst had him as a first rounder. Mayock, the best analyst, had Lynch as a first rounder. Because of his talent. The only thing that would have kept him out was how raw he was, but his physical talents were so great that he was an easy first rounder. I saw a few people say second rounder, and I never saw anything lower than that.

I'm not going to argue with you about TS' first year and Carr's first year, but it's not 'established'. You have your opinion, and that's fine. If we were to compare the second seasons they had, however, I think you'll find yourself retracting your statement. http://www.nfl.com/player/derekcarr/2543499/careerstats

32 TDs, 13 picks, and a few yards away from 4k. TS is close to none of those things, sans INT ratio.


What I will say, however, is that Carr had a ton of obvious talent. There wasn't much to miss. A lot of scouts had him as the best QB in the draft and thought he'd be underdrafted because of his last name and school. I think you go overboard with your 'this is a crap shoot' and don't focus on the fact that just about every HoF QB is a first rounder, that most All-Pro QB's are first rounders, etc. Yeah, you can find a guy elsewhere, but it gets much less likely the further you go. It's not hindsight evaluations, either. It's ratios and percentages.

[topscribe]

Almost every big analyst had him as a first rounder. Mayock, the best analyst, had Lynch as a first rounder. Because of his talent. The only thing that would have kept him out was how raw he was, but his physical talents were so great that he was an easy first rounder. I saw a few people say second rounder, and I never saw anything lower than that.

I'm not going to argue with you about TS' first year and Carr's first year, but it's not 'established'. You have your opinion, and that's fine. If we were to compare the second seasons they had, however, I think you'll find yourself retracting your statement. http://www.nfl.com/player/derekcarr/2543499/careerstats

32 TDs, 13 picks, and a few yards away from 4k. TS is close to none of those things, sans INT ratio.


What I will say, however, is that Carr had a ton of obvious talent. There wasn't much to miss. A lot of scouts had him as the best QB in the draft and thought he'd be underdrafted because of his last name and school. I think you go overboard with your 'this is a crap shoot' and don't focus on the fact that just about every HoF QB is a first rounder, that most All-Pro QB's are first rounders, etc. Yeah, you can find a guy elsewhere, but it gets much less likely the further you go. It's not hindsight evaluations, either. It's ratios and percentages.
You know you can't compare Carr's second season with Trevor's. Carr had a full season behind him,
whereas Trevor had yet to throw a pass in the NFL. Such unrealistic comparisons don't prove a thing.

So many of you also can't seem to get this 7th-round stigma out of your collective minds. I don't care
if they recruited him out of a shoe store. It's what I see of him on the field. As has already been said
several times, if it had been Lynch who put up Trevor's numbers last year, people would be talking
about how he had gotten a pretty good start.

[MOtorboat]

You know you can't compare Carr's second season with Trevor's. Carr had a full season behind him,
whereas Trevor had yet to throw a pass in the NFL. Such unrealistic comparisons don't prove a thing.

So many of you also can't seem to get this 7th-round stigma out of your collective minds. I don't care
if they recruited him out of a shoe store. It's what I see of him on the field. As has already been said
several times, if it had been Lynch who put up Trevor's numbers last year, people would be talking
about how he had gotten a pretty good start.

I don't care where he was drafted either. Someone tried to say he's the best quarterback in the division because he's cheap. When making a prediction about the season ahead, I don't care how much he costs or where he was drafted, he's the fourth-best quarterback in the division.

[Poet]

You know you can't compare Carr's second season with Trevor's. Carr had a full season behind him,
whereas Trevor had yet to throw a pass in the NFL. Such unrealistic comparisons don't prove a thing.

So many of you also can't seem to get this 7th-round stigma out of your collective minds. I don't care
if they recruited him out of a shoe store. It's what I see of him on the field. As has already been said
several times, if it had been Lynch who put up Trevor's numbers last year, people would be talking
about how he had gotten a pretty good start.

I was responding to an argument made by Tned, Top.

And I take issue with people comparing TS' first year with rookie QB's because that's not apples to apples, either.

Look, I'm here to be optimistic and pull for my team. Most of the debate has subsided, but Tned and I were just talking, that's all. I'm off to get food and watch some boxing.

[topscribe]

I was responding to an argument made by Tned, Top.

And I take issue with people comparing TS' first year with rookie QB's because that's not apples to apples, either.

Look, I'm here to be optimistic and pull for my team. Most of the debate has subsided, but Tned and I were just talking, that's all. I'm off to get food and watch some boxing.
Maybe you were making a different point than what I inferred because I missed the
context of your discussion, but I just responded to what I saw.

[Tned]

But you don't set up your team building philosophy with, "Get quarterback in seventh round." That is not part of anyone's plan. When you budget for position you don't ever say, "we'll go cheap at quarterback." The two examples listed here, Seattle and New England had signed Matt Flynn and already had Drew Bledsoe, both on big contracts.

They didn't use the "get QB in 7th round" philosophy. They have used the "pay a free agent $100 million" philosophy. They have used the "draft a QB in the second round to learn behind Manning" philosophy. They have used the "draft a QB in the first round" philosophy.

It just happens that two of those three philosophies appear to have come up dry, and at the same time they lucked into the "holy shit, we found a gem in the 7th that's bailing out our bad high pick mistakes, and we wonder if that gem will become a diamond" philosophy.

[Tned]

Almost every big analyst had him as a first rounder. Mayock, the best analyst, had Lynch as a first rounder. Because of his talent. The only thing that would have kept him out was how raw he was, but his physical talents were so great that he was an easy first rounder. I saw a few people say second rounder, and I never saw anything lower than that.

I'm not going to argue with you about TS' first year and Carr's first year, but it's not 'established'. You have your opinion, and that's fine. If we were to compare the second seasons they had, however, I think you'll find yourself retracting your statement. http://www.nfl.com/player/derekcarr/2543499/careerstats

32 TDs, 13 picks, and a few yards away from 4k. TS is close to none of those things, sans INT ratio.


What I will say, however, is that Carr had a ton of obvious talent. There wasn't much to miss. A lot of scouts had him as the best QB in the draft and thought he'd be underdrafted because of his last name and school. I think you go overboard with your 'this is a crap shoot' and don't focus on the fact that just about every HoF QB is a first rounder, that most All-Pro QB's are first rounders, etc. Yeah, you can find a guy elsewhere, but it gets much less likely the further you go. It's not hindsight evaluations, either. It's ratios and percentages.

I don't have to retract anything. Remember, you established the meaning of "on par" when comparing QBs and using your use of the terms, then Carr's second season and Siemian's first, were much closer to being "on par" than Siemian in Lynch's play last year.

As to Lynch. I didn't say that people said he would go in the 4th, but that he was a 2nd to 4th round talent, but due to the fact that so many teams had holes at QB, that he was going to go in the first (some said he could fall to early 2nd, especially earlier in the pre-draft period) purely based on his physical tools, which is much different than football talent. Almost all of those same experts you refer to talked about him needing 2-3 years, because while he had very impressive physical tools, he was far from an NFL ready QB.

[Tned]

I don't care where he was drafted either. Someone tried to say he's the best quarterback in the division because he's cheap. When making a prediction about the season ahead, I don't care how much he costs or where he was drafted, he's the fourth-best quarterback in the division.

Value doesn't come into play when ranking players, unless that IS how you are ranking them, such as some might make a case for a Hyundai being better than a Mercedes, when you bring "value" into play.

On pure performance, you are sitting with:

Rivers
Carr
Smith
Siemian

An argument could be made, just not a good one, that Carr is better than Rivers (due to Rivers has a long body of work, but Carr could take the crown) and Siemian could push for third place, but would be a major upset to be considered the 2nd best or best QB when the season is over.

[MOtorboat]

They didn't use the "get QB in 7th round" philosophy. They have used the "pay a free agent $100 million" philosophy. They have used the "draft a QB in the second round to learn behind Manning" philosophy. They have used the "draft a QB in the first round" philosophy.

It just happens that two of those three philosophies appear to have come up dry, and at the same time they lucked into the "holy shit, we found a gem in the 7th that's bailing out our bad high pick mistakes, and we wonder if that gem will become a diamond" philosophy.

I didn't say Denver did.

[Tned]

I didn't say Denver did.

Ok, fair enough. I assumed too much based on the 7th round comment.

[iLands]

In other news I'm glad we had the cap to gamble on Jamaal because he's back.

[Hawgdriver]

Jamaalocaust is upon us!

[Cugel]

Did anyone change her/his mind about Broncos vs. Patriots game? Edelman is out for a year. Broncos win this game?

How can anybody tell at this point? The Patriots are still absolutely loaded with talent. They are the NFL equivalent of the Golden State Warriors right now. They went out and signed a bunch of FAs too and crushed everybody in FA. Let's not forget that. Even if you discount all that, they're still the defending SB Champions who won 2 out of the last 3 and only lost to Denver because the game was played in Denver and because their kicker missed an extra point, so they needed a 2-pt. conversion and Chris Harris made a great play.

They are, with good reason, an overwhelming favourite to win it all again too. Will the loss of Edelman change anything? With a lot of teams it would absolutely matter. But the Patriots seem to pull effective players out of their butts all the time if they need to so they have plenty of guys to try and replace Edelman's production. They probably will manage. They won 3 of 4 without Brady last year.

The Broncos meanwhile have an absolute boatload of uncertainty starting with the QB position, and extending to the entire offense. And the defense too if they keep losing DL at this rate! Kerr was the only serious looking injury I saw.

[Cugel]

In other news I'm glad we had the cap to gamble on Jamaal because he's back.

I remember how tense I would get every time he touched the ball and especially if he caught it in open space. Now the other teams get to feel that fear instead of us.

[Tned]

Did anyone change her/his mind about Broncos vs. Patriots game? Edelman is out for a year. Broncos win this game?

No, I already have it down as a W for the Broncos, so Edelman being out doesn't change anything for me.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I remember how tense I would get every time he touched the ball and especially if he caught it in open space. Now the other teams get to feel that fear instead of us.

I'd like to see Henderson and Charles on the field at the same time. Send one in motion and watch the chaos ensue.

[Poet]

I'd like to see Henderson and Charles on the field at the same time. Send one in motion and watch the chaos ensue.

We will just have to keep them both running on shorter routes.

[Freyaka]

That's a shitty way to build a franchise.

What valuable insight do you have to fixing the problem this season? Because last I checked there isn't anyone on our roster who outperformed Trevor, nor is there any proven QB's on the waiver wire that would be an improvement.


So basically, worry about building a franchise next year. This year, we've got what we've got.


I totally get not being satisfied with what we've got, but bitching about it incessantly, it's not going to change anything. When the off-season comes up, we'll see what Elway does there, for now, there isn't a dang thing any of us can do about TS. He's our starter until further notice.

[MOtorboat]

What valuable insight do you have to fixing the problem this season? Because last I checked there isn't anyone on our roster who outperformed Trevor, nor is there any proven QB's on the waiver wire that would be an improvement.


So basically, worry about building a franchise next year. This year, we've got what we've got.


I totally get not being satisfied with what we've got, but bitching about it incessantly, it's not going to change anything. When the off-season comes up, we'll see what Elway does there, for now, there isn't a dang thing any of us can do about TS. He's our starter until further notice.

It's not that hard to follow that conversation. I was not referring specifically to this year's Bronco team, only the idea that the cheapest quarterback in the division, whatever division it might be, is the best quarterback in said division.

[Freyaka]

It's not that hard to follow that conversation. I was not referring specifically to this year's Bronco team, only the idea that the cheapest quarterback in the division, whatever division it might be, is the best quarterback in said division.

Mo, does it really what the conversation is? You hop from thread to thread with the same crap. That's more the angle I'm coming from. We get it, TS is never going to be a franchise QB, we'll worry about that when something is able to be done about it which isn't this year.

[MOtorboat]

Mo, does it really what the conversation is? You hop from thread to thread with the same crap. That's more the angle I'm coming from. We get it, TS is never going to be a franchise QB, we'll worry about that when something is able to be done about it which isn't this year.

Well. That's what I was referring to and commenting on so I don't really know what else to tell you.

[tomjonesrocks]

I have been thinking this was a .500 team - which I thought was a shame considering the defensive talent.

I'm revising this to 6-10. What an unfocused team in that last preseason game (which I just caught up on). The leadership hole on both sides of the ball left with Manning's and Ware's retirement and the change to VJ appears Grand Canyon-esque.

I'm picturing JFE not so happy at the moment. I thought VJ was this fantastic leader. That hasn't been evident in the behavior of the players.

[Freyaka]

I don't get the logic that we are that much worse than last year...we won 9 games last year. Why would this season be different? Especially considering how much we've improved in so many areas.

[Tned]

I don't get the logic that we are that much worse than last year...we won 9 games last year. Why would this season be different? Especially considering how much we've improved in so many areas.

I don't think there is any reason to believe the team will be worse.

If we can get healthy on the front 5, then our defense should be as good or better (personnel changes could lead to being better against run D).

On offense, there is no reason to believe we will be worse, and plenty of reason to believe we will be better:

Replaced three of five offensive linemen. This looks to be an improved unit, which should lead to both improved pass and run blocking.
Quarterback is now in his second year of starting and should be better, and hopefully healthy.
CJ anderson is healthy, joined by J. Charles, DJ Henderson and Booker. Not to mention a healthy Janovich, so running game should be MUCH improved.
TEs aren't new, but if they can remain healthy, this will go a long way. Derby joined mid year and was big in passing game.

There is no reason to believe the offense will be worse and a great many reasons to believe they will be significantly better.

So, the Broncos on paper should be better than last year. That has to be balanced against a substantially more difficult schedule. I believe that last year our strength of schedule had the teams we were facing at about .500 the previous year. This year, it's around .550 and either toughest or second toughest in the NFL.

[Tned]

This just popped into my timeline as I was replying, so as it applies to the offense and how even when we couldn't run the ball, we just kept trying the same thing over and over.

Hopefully we will see more shotgun, multiple receivers, etc.

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/902339048680939520

[dogfish]

i hate to say it, but i feel like a lot of you guys are making some flawed assumptions about last year's performance being some kind of baseline for this year. . . that we should automatically win more games on the field because we look better on paper. . . it's a new year, and many things will be different, across the league. . . yes, we brought in reinforcements. . . we also lost on-field leadership (ware). . . we have a first time head coach, new OC and offensive scheme, first time DC, first time STC. . . i'm not sold that our pass protection will be much improved to start the season, and we are still very thin on the O-line. . . and now thin on the D-line as well-- we're already crossing our fingers there a little, and the games that count haven't even started yet. . .

also, we really need to start strong, because we play a long stretch of mostly road games to close the season-- not the scenario you want to face if you're trying to climb the standings after a slow start. . . there are many moving parts this year, lots of transition going on. . . that doesn't mean we won't win 13 games, either, and i'm not saying it won't happen. . . the run game could be dynamic, and a healthy trevor could look like a young rivers or pig ben. . . i just don't think it's safe to take it for granted that we're better, and that'll mean more wins. . . some of it is just luck anyway. . . like the inconclusive replay at the end of the saints game, and dozens of other similar bounces. . . JC fumbling the ball at the end of the KC game in '15, shit like that. . . we shall see. . .

[Poet]

We will miss Wade Phillips greatly.

[Canmore]

i hate to say it, but i feel like a lot of you guys are making some flawed assumptions about last year's performance being some kind of baseline for this year. . . that we should automatically win more games on the field because we look better on paper. . . it's a new year, and many things will be different, across the league. . . yes, we brought in reinforcements. . . we also lost on-field leadership (ware). . . we have a first time head coach, new OC and offensive scheme, first time DC, first time STC. . . i'm not sold that our pass protection will be much improved to start the season, and we are still very thin on the O-line. . . and now thin on the D-line as well-- we're already crossing our fingers there a little, and the games that count haven't even started yet. . .

also, we really need to start strong, because we play a long stretch of mostly road games to close the season-- not the scenario you want to face if you're trying to climb the standings after a slow start. . . there are many moving parts this year, lots of transition going on. . . that doesn't mean we won't win 13 games, either, and i'm not saying it won't happen. . . the run game could be dynamic, and a healthy trevor could look like a young rivers or pig ben. . . i just don't think it's safe to take it for granted that we're better, and that'll mean more wins. . . some of it is just luck anyway. . . like the inconclusive replay at the end of the saints game, and dozens of other similar bounces. . . JC fumbling the ball at the end of the KC game in '15, shit like that. . . we shall see. . .

dog...you are raining on our parade.

Unfortunately, you are accurate too.

The schedule looks brutal, and not for a second do I really believe the offensive line is IMPROVED. Worse no. Better...???

The loss of leadership could be catastrophic.

If we want to get to the promised land I believe the job rests squarely on the young shoulders of number 13.

We shall see.

[Tned]

i hate to say it, but i feel like a lot of you guys are making some flawed assumptions about last year's performance being some kind of baseline for this year. . . that we should automatically win more games on the field because we look better on paper. . . it's a new year, and many things will be different, across the league. . . yes, we brought in reinforcements. . . we also lost on-field leadership (ware). . . we have a first time head coach, new OC and offensive scheme, first time DC, first time STC. . . i'm not sold that our pass protection will be much improved to start the season, and we are still very thin on the O-line. . . and now thin on the D-line as well-- we're already crossing our fingers there a little, and the games that count haven't even started yet. . .

also, we really need to start strong, because we play a long stretch of mostly road games to close the season-- not the scenario you want to face if you're trying to climb the standings after a slow start. . . there are many moving parts this year, lots of transition going on. . . that doesn't mean we won't win 13 games, either, and i'm not saying it won't happen. . . the run game could be dynamic, and a healthy trevor could look like a young rivers or pig ben. . . i just don't think it's safe to take it for granted that we're better, and that'll mean more wins. . . some of it is just luck anyway. . . like the inconclusive replay at the end of the saints game, and dozens of other similar bounces. . . JC fumbling the ball at the end of the KC game in '15, shit like that. . . we shall see. . .

Well, as you indicate, that's why they play the games. Just like a draft pick on paper more often than not doesn't perform at the level predicted, so goes the performance of a team on the field vs. it on paper.

On paper, this should be an improved team, but I agree that the depth is concerning, especially with so many injuries before the season starts.

Granted, there is a new offensive schemed, and I could be proven totally wrong by the time we are at the quarter point in the season, but I'm looking at that is a big positive. As much as I like and respect Kubiak for what he did previously in Denver (as a player and coach), I think his scheme and play calling was horrible. Now, it's possible that McCoy will be just as predictable and unable to adjust, or that Siemian and the rest of the offense isn't capable of executing McCoy's vision.

So, I agree that last year isn't a baseline, as it isn't for the teams we are playing as well. Just because those teams had a .550 or so winning percentage last year, doesn't mean they will this year.

I think we can all agree that this team needs to get out fast. If they aren't 3-1 by the bye, they are going to have a tough time going anyplace this season. Impossible? No, but very tough, yes.

[Buff]

i hate to say it, but i feel like a lot of you guys are making some flawed assumptions about last year's performance being some kind of baseline for this year. . . that we should automatically win more games on the field because we look better on paper. . . it's a new year, and many things will be different, across the league. . . yes, we brought in reinforcements. . . we also lost on-field leadership (ware). . . we have a first time head coach, new OC and offensive scheme, first time DC, first time STC. . . i'm not sold that our pass protection will be much improved to start the season, and we are still very thin on the O-line. . . and now thin on the D-line as well-- we're already crossing our fingers there a little, and the games that count haven't even started yet. . .

also, we really need to start strong, because we play a long stretch of mostly road games to close the season-- not the scenario you want to face if you're trying to climb the standings after a slow start. . . there are many moving parts this year, lots of transition going on. . . that doesn't mean we won't win 13 games, either, and i'm not saying it won't happen. . . the run game could be dynamic, and a healthy trevor could look like a young rivers or pig ben. . . i just don't think it's safe to take it for granted that we're better, and that'll mean more wins. . . some of it is just luck anyway. . . like the inconclusive replay at the end of the saints game, and dozens of other similar bounces. . . JC fumbling the ball at the end of the KC game in '15, shit like that. . . we shall see. . .

I see our defense willing us to 8-8. Ware had resigned himself to more of a symbolic leadership role last year than an on-field havoc wreaker. I think we have plenty of veteran leadership on defense - I don't really view him as that big of a loss.

I think we have a better offensive scheme, a better backfield, and an offensive line that can't be any worse. A QB who benefits from a year of experience.

I dunno - I'm not sold on this team being elite... I think we will continue to be defined by 3rd down ineffectiveness and stalled drives. But there is too much talent on defense to see a major dropoff (barring injury).

[Cugel]

i hate to say it, but i feel like a lot of you guys are making some flawed assumptions about last year's performance being some kind of baseline for this year. . . that we should automatically win more games on the field because we look better on paper. . . it's a new year, and many things will be different, across the league. . . yes, we brought in reinforcements. . . we also lost on-field leadership (ware). . . we have a first time head coach, new OC and offensive scheme, first time DC, first time STC. . . i'm not sold that our pass protection will be much improved to start the season, and we are still very thin on the O-line. . . and now thin on the D-line as well-- we're already crossing our fingers there a little, and the games that count haven't even started yet. . .

also, we really need to start strong, because we play a long stretch of mostly road games to close the season-- not the scenario you want to face if you're trying to climb the standings after a slow start. . . there are many moving parts this year, lots of transition going on. . . that doesn't mean we won't win 13 games, either, and i'm not saying it won't happen. . . the run game could be dynamic, and a healthy trevor could look like a young rivers or pig ben. . . i just don't think it's safe to take it for granted that we're better, and that'll mean more wins. . . some of it is just luck anyway. . . like the inconclusive replay at the end of the saints game, and dozens of other similar bounces. . . JC fumbling the ball at the end of the KC game in '15, shit like that. . . we shall see. . .

You can easily be right, but why play Dobber Downer at THIS point in the season? If the team goes 2-2 in the first 4 games, OK.

But, right now? The team is likely to be better on paper, especially Trevor. That should translate to more wins. Hopefully.

[Freyaka]

You can easily be right, but why play Dobber Downer at THIS point in the season? If the team goes 2-2 in the first 4 games, OK.

But, right now? The team is likely to be better on paper, especially Trevor. That should translate to more wins. Hopefully.

Right? I mean lets see our scheme on offense and defense in real action without vanilla playcalling and assume we will be surprised. I don't get the sky falling before we've taken a single regular season rep yet.

[Cugel]

dog...you are raining on our parade.

Unfortunately, you are accurate too.

The schedule looks brutal, and not for a second do I really believe the offensive line is IMPROVED. Worse no. Better...???

The loss of leadership could be catastrophic.

If we want to get to the promised land I believe the job rests squarely on the young shoulders of number 13.

We shall see.

Except that the loss of leadership was last year when they lost Peyton. Ware was largely inactive last year and wasn't a factor on the field. His off-field leadership was important, but this defense has LOTS of leaders -- Wolfe, Von, Aqib Talib.

It's the loss of offensive leadership that hurt. The defense was fine last year and should be better this year with the addition of Pecko.

But, with Trevor a rookie last year and locked into a QB battle this year he hasn't been able to produce real leadership. That can change now that he's this year's starter and I think it will.

Last year was an anomaly because Osweiler was supposed to be the starter, only he bailed. Then they tried to use Butt-fumbler but he sucked. Then they named Trevor by default because Paxton (their preferred QB) wasn't ready. Then this year there was the QB competition and Paxton STILL isn't ready.

Trevor has 1 year to prove he's the next Derek Carr, and taking over the leadership role on offense and making this his team is a big step in that direction.

[Buff]

Right? I mean lets see our scheme on offense and defense in real action without vanilla playcalling and assume we will be surprised. I don't get the sky falling before we've taken a single regular season rep yet.

dog ain't a "sky is falling" kinda guy. I trust his instincts when he smells some BS floating around. I think we're all trying to put our finger on what exactly it is that is holding back our enthusiasm for this squad right now.

[Freyaka]

dog ain't a "sky is falling" kinda guy. I trust his instincts when he smells some BS floating around. I think we're all trying to put our finger on what exactly it is that is holding back our enthusiasm for this squad right now.

I'm not really saying he is, that's just what got quoted. It's a common attitude around here though. There are a lot that are sky is falling people and the negativity gets old. Especially if you are trying really, really hard to stay positive.

I'm not ragging on dog specifically.

[Cugel]

Right? I mean lets see our scheme on offense and defense in real action without vanilla playcalling and assume we will be surprised. I don't get the sky falling before we've taken a single regular season rep yet.

Now's the time of year when even Jets and Browns fans get to be optimistic! Broncos fans should be predicting 12-4 at this point! Of course, they might not go 12-4 with this schedule, but hey! Shoot for the moon! :laugh:

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
dog ain't a "sky is falling" kinda guy. I trust his instincts when he smells some BS floating around. I think we're all trying to put our finger on what exactly it is that is holding back our enthusiasm for this squad right now.


The reason for the lack of enthusiasm is that Trevor is a little regarded journeyman QB who was really an afterthought in the NFL who played his way into a starting job. Which is a nice little human interest story, but is NOT the way SB champion QBs normally get their start.

Plus, the offensive line sucked last year and it's unclear how much better they are this year. Last year's defense sucked at stopping the run and it's unclear how much better they will be at that too (although Pecko has looked stout there).

Add up all the uncertainty and there's no telling where this team might end up. I could make a case for anything between 6-10 (lots of key injuries) to 12-4 (Trevor Balls Out and the defense plays back to sorta where they were in 2015).

[Tned]

IMO, discussing why the Broncos will be .500 isn't being a Debbie downer, because this is a prediction thread. I gave my reasons why I think they will do better than that, but those areas of concern raised by others are valid concerns.

[Cugel]

IMO, discussing why the Broncos will be .500 isn't being a Debbie downer, because this is a prediction thread. I gave my reasons why I think they will do better than that, but those areas of concern raised by others are valid concerns.

I think people are unhappy because you could be right. And who wants to face that before the first regular season game? I want to live on Cloud Nine as long as possible. It's really comy up there!

[Tned]

The reason for the lack of enthusiasm is that Trevor is a little regarded journeyman QB...

Ok, now might be a good time to agree on the definition of journeyman.

[Krugan]

IMO, discussing why the Broncos will be .500 isn't being a Debbie downer, because this is a prediction thread. I gave my reasons why I think they will do better than that, but those areas of concern raised by others are valid concerns.

I was just about to type about the same thing.

Ive been kinda waiting to see what we had before making a guess, but im not pleased with what i see, so here is my prediction.

7-9, and i base this off a still sputtering Oline.

Not to mention a new coaching staff, again...

Still not convinced we are going to be solid against the run, the middle of the LB corps is questionable at best.

The AFC west is strong, and we will struggle again this year(i think).

So to avoid being overly negative ill just stop here.

[Tned]

I think people are unhappy because you could be right. And who wants to face that before the first regular season game? I want to live on Cloud Nine as long as possible. It's really comy up there!

10903

If I'm right, the Broncos will start with three wins. Not sure that's inconsistent with lounging on cloud nine.

[Tned]

Just as to a reminder of my prediction. I feel very good about this team. I was simply saying we shouldn't rag on guys in this thread for voicing a different view.




Injuries on defense has me worried, assuming Wolf, Crick and Walker aren't long term injuries, then I think something like this:

W - Week 1 - vs Chargers MNF late game
W - Week 2 - vs Cowboys
W - Week 3 - at Bills (11:00 MT)
L - Week 4 - vs Raiders
Week 5 - Bye
W - Week 6 - vs Giants SNF
L - Week 7 - at Chargers
L - Week 8 - at Chiefs MNF
W - Week 9 - at Eagles (11:00 MT)
W - Week 10 - vs Patriots SNF
W - Week 11 -vs Bengals
L - Week 12 - at Raiders
W - Week 13 - at Dolphins (11:00 MT)
W - Week 14 - vs Jets
L - Week 15 - at Colts TNF
W - Week 16 - at Redskins (11:00 MT)
W - Week 17 - vs Chiefs

11-5, but could easily swing anywhere from 9-7 to 12-4. I put the likelihood of worse than 9 wins or better than 12 as pretty unlikely. So, I'l call the 9-12 win range as 80% confidence and more like 65% confidence level in the 11 wins.

[Cugel]

Ok, now might be a good time to agree on the definition of journeyman.

I'm thinking about the general view of Trevor around the league. Trevor came out of nowhere to grab the starting job, but he's never been considered anything like an elite QB.

[Valar Morghulis]

I have us going into the patriots game unbeaten

[Freyaka]

I have us going into the patriots game unbeaten

That's actually really possible and reasonable There is a few games in there that could easily fall either way, but it's totally possible.

[topscribe]

I'm thinking about the general view of Trevor around the league. Trevor came out of nowhere to grab the starting job, but he's never been considered anything like an elite QB.
According to Vance Joseph, who talks with people around the league, Trevor is viewed as a "pretty
good quarterback." If he can be just that, with the defense the Broncos have, they should be in
good shape.

[Tned]

I'm thinking about the general view of Trevor around the league. Trevor came out of nowhere to grab the starting job, but he's never been considered anything like an elite QB.

Normally journeyman is reserved for a QB that has bounced around the league. Some starting, some backup.

Its just a very creative use of the term to use on a player with two years in the league and one one of them starting.

[Freyaka]

According to Vance Joseph, who talks with people around the league, Trevor is viewed as a "pretty
good quarterback." If he can be just that, with the defense the Broncos have, they should be in
good shape.

That's the thing that makes me laugh, people are like "no one not wearing orange colored glasses thinks he's a good QB"

I've had a lot of non-broncos fans tell me that they'd love to have Trevor on their team because he has a bright future, but hey. They must have an orange tint too right :D

[Hawgdriver]

I'm not really saying he is, that's just what got quoted. It's a common attitude around here though. There are a lot that are sky is falling people and the negativity gets old. Especially if you are trying really, really hard to stay positive.

I'm not ragging on dog specifically.

You make high standards sound like a bad thing.

[Hawgdriver]

7-9, and i base this off a still sputtering Oline.

I'm a fan of Bolles's mentality. His holding calls and inability to contain speed rush, not so much. Hope he buttons it all up, and smarter people than me are convinced he will.

But as things stand heading into week 1, the left side of the line heading looks sketchy.

[Freyaka]

You make high standards sound like a bad thing.

I have no issues with people looking at the roster and indicating that they think we're going to have a rough year. That is highly, highly possible. But if we are, we aren't going to change it anyways so we might as well try and enjoy it rather than making everyone else miserable by complaining about it.

It's a prediction thread, posting a prediction here isn't the same thing.

Everyone has the right to their opinions, there is nothing wrong with high standards.

[slim]

You make high standards sound like a bad thing.

Not to mention the fact that all the pie in the sky, manufactured optimism gets just as old.

God forbid we have an honest evaluation or discussion.

[Freyaka]

I'm a fan of Bolles's mentality. His holding calls and inability to contain speed rush, not so much. Hope he buttons it all up, and smarter people than me are convinced he will.

But as things stand heading into week 1, the left side of the line heading looks sketchy.

If I had to put money down, I'd say it will look sketchy until the bye once they have time to cohesively gel as a unit (it normally takes 5-6 weeks) If we aren't seeing improvement by or shortly after the bye, we've got what we've got and it won't improve much further.

[Hawgdriver]

moderated

Has nothing to do with our resident beer snob, just in general.

What you take as whining can also be viewed as insistence on developing a championship roster instead of settling for hope. All stripes of fans up in here with one common desire.

[Freyaka]

Has nothing to do with our resident beer snob, just in general.

What you take as whining can also be viewed as insistence on developing a championship roster instead of settling for hope. All stripes of fans up in here with one common desire.

But that insistence does us what good this year? How can we change what's already on our roster until next year. Yes we have a common desire, we want this team the best it can be, but at this point, nothing's going to change this year. We ride with what we've got, like it or leave it.

I'm done discussing it though because it's driving the thread off it's intended topic. It is what it is, moving on. People can say whatever they want, it is after all a free country.

[underrated29]

Week 1 - vs Chargers MNF late game ------WIN
Week 2 - vs Cowboys---------------------WIN
Week 3 - at Bills (11:00 MT)---------------WIN
Week 4 - vs Raiders-----------------------WIN
Week 5 - Bye
Week 6 - vs Giants SNF-----------------------WIN (ONLY CUZ WE ARE HOME)
Week 7 - at Chargers-------------------------WIN
Week 8 - at Chiefs MNF-----------------------LOSS
Week 9 - at Eagles (11:00 MT)----------------WIN
Week 10 - vs Patriots SNF---------------------WIN
Week 11 -vs Bengals--------------------------LOSS
Week 12 - at Raiders--------------------------LOSS
Week 13 - at Dolphins (11:00 MT)-------------LOSS
Week 14 - vs Jets-----------------------------WIN
Week 15 - at Colts TNF-----------------------LOSS
Week 16 - at Redskins (11:00 MT)-------------WIN
Week 17 - vs Chiefs[/QUOTE]-----------------WIN



I think the dolphins and pats game could go either way.



There you have it. 11-5 by my eyes

[MOtorboat]

Week 1 - vs Chargers MNF late game ------WIN
Week 2 - vs Cowboys---------------------WIN
Week 3 - at Bills (11:00 MT)---------------WIN
Week 4 - vs Raiders-----------------------WIN
Week 5 - Bye
Week 6 - vs Giants SNF-----------------------WIN (ONLY CUZ WE ARE HOME)
Week 7 - at Chargers-------------------------WIN
Week 8 - at Chiefs MNF-----------------------LOSS
Week 9 - at Eagles (11:00 MT)----------------WIN
Week 10 - vs Patriots SNF---------------------WIN
Week 11 -vs Bengals--------------------------LOSS
Week 12 - at Raiders--------------------------LOSS
Week 13 - at Dolphins (11:00 MT)-------------LOSS
Week 14 - vs Jets-----------------------------WIN
Week 15 - at Colts TNF-----------------------LOSS
Week 16 - at Redskins (11:00 MT)-------------WIN
Week 17 - vs Chiefs-----------------WIN



I think the dolphins and pats game could go either way.



There you have it. 11-5 by my eyes

I think we drop one of those first five, if not two. That Week 7-13 stretch is just brutal. I'll stick with 8-8, 9-7. To get to 11-5, Siemian is going to have to have a few games where he puts the team on his back. We'll see if he's got that in him.

[underrated29]

I think we drop one of those first five, if not two. That Week 7-13 stretch is just brutal. I'll stick with 8-8, 9-7. To get to 11-5, Siemian is going to have to have a few games where he puts the team on his back. We'll see if he's got that in him.



I am not sure he does. I do think Jamal Charles and the run game, and Mckenzie on PR do, however.

[Freyaka]

I think we drop one of those first five, if not two. That Week 7-13 stretch is just brutal. I'll stick with 8-8, 9-7. To get to 11-5, Siemian is going to have to have a few games where he puts the team on his back. We'll see if he's got that in him.

If we're going to drop a game in the first 5 it's the Raiders game (I think I have them sweeping us, but I'd have to go back and remember) The cowboys game IMO got a lot easier once Zeke got suspended. If we beat the Raiders, I actually see us going undefeated until New England, since the game is in Denver, we could even potentially win that (They are garbage in Denver, always have been)

Who knows, Week one should be telling I think. Can't wait for it to get here.

[underrated29]

The cowboys are like carolina was. Had a super easy schedule and looked great. Had an overachieving defense. This year they do not. With or without Zeke. They arent as good as they seem.

[Tned]

You make high standards sound like a bad thing.

There is a big difference with high standards and out of touch, pie in the sky standards.

Remind me again who the top three QBs drafted by the Broncos were. How about the success rate of first/second round QBs.

Constantly bitching about how anything short of an elite QB in Denver isn't good enough is ridiculous. There is no QB birthright in Denver. Denver got lucky to get Elway and then a once in a lifetime free agent pickup in Manning. If we look back, we probably should think more about Plummer and Cutler than many did at the time, because those are the best QBs after Elway and Manning that Denver has had.

So, it's not about high standards, it's about unrealistic ones.

"If he was injured, he shouldn't have been starting." (I know that wasn't your quote) So, really, last year we were supposed to start the clueless QB that was running around like he was a freshman college starter playing in the NFL?

[tomjonesrocks]

I think we drop one of those first five, if not two. That Week 7-13 stretch is just brutal. I'll stick with 8-8, 9-7. To get to 11-5, Siemian is going to have to have a few games where he puts the team on his back. We'll see if he's got that in him.

I see a very slow start, losing 4 straight after a home win against the Chargers.

Week 1 - vs Chargers MNF late game - WIN 1-0
Week 2 - vs Cowboys - LOSS 1-1
Week 3 - at Bills (11:00 MT) - LOSS 1-2
Week 4 - vs Raiders - LOSS 1-3
Week 5 - Bye
Week 6 - vs Giants SNF - LOSS 1-4
Week 7 - at Chargers - WIN 2-4
Week 8 - at Chiefs MNF - LOSS 2-5
Week 9 - at Eagles (11:00 MT) - WIN 3-5
Week 10 - vs Patriots SNF - LOSS 3-6
Week 11 -vs Bengals - WIN - 4-6
Week 12 - at Raiders - LOSS 4-7
Week 13 - at Dolphins (11:00 MT) - WIN 5-7
Week 14 - vs Jets - WIN 6-7
Week 15 - at Colts TNF - WIN 7-7
Week 16 - at Redskins (11:00 MT) - LOSS 7-8
Week 17 - vs Chiefs - WIN 8-8

Predictions thusfar seem to consistently have wins over the Cowboys, Giants, Pats, and in some cases a split or even sweep of the Raiders. Call me a negative-nancy but I have to agree I'm not seeing that as likely. Even the morning Bills game isn't really the type of game the Broncos have historically done well in. .500 seems (or seemed) very likely to me but I really hated a lot of what I saw in the last preseason game. I'm definitely concerned.

[MOtorboat]

Predictions thusfar seem to consistently have wins over the Cowboys, Giants, Pats, and in some cases a split or even sweep of the Raiders. Call me a negative-nancy but I have to agree I'm not seeing that as likely. Even the morning Bills game isn't really the type of game the Broncos have historically done well in. .500 seems (or seemed) very likely to me but I really hated a lot of what I saw in the last preseason game. I'm definitely concerned.

It kind of depends on how well the Cowboys can run the call without Elliott. If they can with McFadden or Morris, it could be a long year for their opponents, of which include the Broncos.

[Freyaka]

It kind of depends on how well the Cowboys can run the call without Elliott. If they can with McFadden or Morris, it could be a long year for their opponents, of which include the Broncos.

I could see it going either way honestly. It's really going to depend on their running game. I'm not sure that Dak on his own can beat our defense. Wouldn't be the first time I underestimated Dak though.

[Canmore]

I'm a fan of Bolles's mentality. His holding calls and inability to contain speed rush, not so much. Hope he buttons it all up, and smarter people than me are convinced he will.

But as things stand heading into week 1, the left side of the line heading looks sketchy.

What about the right?

[Hawgdriver]

What about the right?

Seems legit! Your thoughts?

[Canmore]

Seems legit! Your thoughts?

Still not sold on the right tackle no matter who they start and that seems to be Watson. I'm hoping but after years of hoping I want to see results.

[Tned]

Still not sold on the right tackle no matter who they start and that seems to be Watson. I'm hoping but after years of hoping I want to see results.

With Watson, we both need to see performance but also if he can stay healthy.

[dogfish]

lol, drama. . .

no downer or sky is falling shit here, i'm just keepin' it real. . . i had to pump the brakes a little bit on the idea that we're automatically going to be better and win more games, that's all. . . no big hassle. . .


I think we're all trying to put our finger on what exactly it is that is holding back our enthusiasm for this squad right now.



I dunno - I'm not sold on this team being elite... I think we will continue to be defined by 3rd down ineffectiveness and stalled drives. But there is too much talent on defense to see a major dropoff (barring injury).



I think we can all agree that this team needs to get out fast. If they aren't 3-1 by the bye, they are going to have a tough time going anyplace this season. Impossible? No, but very tough, yes.

buff, for me it's just the amount of moving parts as much as anything. . . plus the fact that we lack experience at so many crucial positions. . . i do tend to agree that the defense is going to be fine, barring more injuries. . . but we're also looking at a first time HC (with all of one year as a coordinator under his belt), a raw rookie at left tackle, QB with like twenty-some combined starts between college and last year, uncertainty at the center position. . . and now TJ ward trade rumors? not helpful, IMO. . . i'm guessing most of us can agree that we need to start fast, and i'm really just pointing out that we won't be going out trying to do so under ideal circumstances. . . the obvious flip side of that is that we'll feel pretty battle-tested early if we do come through the opening stretch strong. . . the most likely scenario for that is we lean on von and the #NFZ, and an effective running game. . . all of which sets us up nicely for the rest of the year, particularly if trevor is sharp, and the line does come together. . . i just think it's a lot to assume right now-- we definitely still have some holes that need to be patched on the fly. .

[Canmore]

With Watson, we both need to see performance but also if he can stay healthy.

Agreed, but before he gets hurt I would like to see some production.

[GEM]

Another 10 pages of clean up. No more warnings. Now it'll just be time off. No more of the optimist vs. pessimist, no more of the sarcastic optimism, no more of the troll comments, no freaking more period. Clean up your own bs, report anything and let us deal with it.

[Poet]

I stand by my 10-6 prediction. TS will get better, he has to. There's no reason to think he won't improve.

The defense will be better against the run, but worse against the pass, and maybe significantly so.

The RB's we have are talented. Booker was our second best last year and it looks like he's our third or maybe even fourth best this year.

The o-line, at the least has some talent on it.

[topscribe]

I stand by my 10-6 prediction. TS will get better, he has to. There's no reason to think he won't improve.

The defense will be better against the run, but worse against the pass, and maybe significantly so.

The RB's we have are talented. Booker was our second best last year and it looks like he's our third or maybe even fourth best this year.

The o-line, at the least has some talent on it.
The defense will probably improve some on against the run, maybe not dramatically, but at least mildly.
The personnel for pass defense will be the same as last year. So what criteria are you going by in saying
that the pass defense may decline "significantly" from last year?

[Poet]

The defense will probably improve some on against the run, maybe not dramatically, but at least mildly.
The personnel for pass defense will be the same as last year. So what criteria are you going by in saying
that the pass defense may decline "significantly" from last year?

Injuries at the pass rusher positions and a lack of Wade Phillips.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I think we'll be 2-2 going into the bye. I think we'll look mostly like we did last year. We'll beat bad teams and lose to playoff teams. 9-7 at best.

The only thing that can make that not happen, IMO, is if we can actually run the ball this year. If CJ stays healthy, DH keeps playing like he is, and Charles still has some in the tank, we could rely less on the passing game to score all our points. I think the defense will be good, not spectacular but if we can run the ball effectively and actually score TDs in the red zone we should be in most games.

[topscribe]

Injuries at the pass rusher positions and a lack of Wade Phillips.
Well, Shaq is supposed to be back for the first game, with Ray following him a couple games thereafter.
Plus they've been getting a bit more push from the interior line.

And don't you think you may be a bit premature about the decline in coaching?

[Tned]

I think we'll be 2-2 going into the bye. I think we'll look mostly like we did last year. We'll beat bad teams and lose to playoff teams. 9-7 at best.

The only thing that can make that not happen, IMO, is if we can actually run the ball this year. If CJ stays healthy, DH keeps playing like he is, and Charles still has some in the tank, we could rely less on the passing game to score all our points. I think the defense will be good, not spectacular but if we can run the ball effectively and actually score TDs in the red zone we should be in most games.

Fewer three and outs and playing with the lead, will go a long way to allowing the Broncos pass rush to pin their ears back, and be more rested than they were last year with so many three and outs on offense. Now, fewer three and outs might be easier said than done.

[Poet]

Well, Shaq is supposed to be back for the first game, with Ray following him a couple games thereafter.
Plus they've been getting a bit more push from the interior line.

And don't you think you may be a bit premature about the decline in coaching?

I understand that, and the point is very valid. But, it's hard to think that they'll be all the way healthy, and I'm not sure if the push mitigates the injuries enough.

I don't think I'm premature. Phillips is one of the best defensive minds ever. He's a legend. A football deity of defense. He's a bad, bad, man! There are maybe ten minds in the history of the game that could replace him without a dropoff in coaching intellect on defense. They don't make them like Wade anymore. That's the son of Bum!

[Freyaka]

I understand that, and the point is very valid. But, it's hard to think that they'll be all the way healthy, and I'm not sure if the push mitigates the injuries enough.

I don't think I'm premature. Phillips is one of the best defensive minds ever. He's a legend. A football deity of defense. He's a bad, bad, man! There are maybe ten minds in the history of the game that could replace him without a dropoff in coaching intellect on defense. They don't make them like Wade anymore. That's the son of Bum!

I love phillips his defense always stop out at the very top when he gets somewhere, then 2-3 years later fall off...We just skipped the falling off stage and moved onto Woods who is a solid coach in his own right. We'll be good.

[Poet]

I love phillips his defense always stop out at the very top when he gets somewhere, then 2-3 years later fall off...We just skipped the falling off stage and moved onto Woods who is a solid coach in his own right. We'll be good.

He wasn't falling off with those horses, and I think that he would get more out of them than just about anyone else. However, those horses run, and they're too good to be a bad defense, so I get it.

[topscribe]

I understand that, and the point is very valid. But, it's hard to think that they'll be all the way healthy, and I'm not sure if the push mitigates the injuries enough.

I don't think I'm premature. Phillips is one of the best defensive minds ever. He's a legend. A football deity of defense. He's a bad, bad, man! There are maybe ten minds in the history of the game that could replace him without a dropoff in coaching intellect on defense. They don't make them like Wade anymore. That's the son of Bum!
Well, this is a prediction thread, so I suppose just about any is valid, within reason.
And I am a fan of Phillips as a DC, no doubt. But I would just as soon give Woods a
chance and find out what they saw in him in letting Phillips go.

And if they keep getting interior push, the difference will be dramatic. That serves to
take away the pocket, and the QB can't climb the ladder as effectively. The QB, then,
has nowhere to go.

[Canmore]

Well, this is a prediction thread, so I suppose just about any is valid, within reason.
And I am a fan of Phillips as a DC, no doubt. But I would just as soon give Woods a
chance and find out what they saw in him in letting Phillips go.

And if they keep getting interior push, the difference will be dramatic. That serves to
take away the pocket, and the QB can't climb the ladder as effectively. The QB, then,
has nowhere to go.

top, where is the interior push going to come from?

[Tned]

top, where is the interior push going to come from?

I think he's talking about defenses getting interior pushes against our O-line. In week 3, Garcia was beat badly multiple times. Paradis was beat. Leary was beat (although that could have been on Paradis as well). There were a couple others where it was stacked rushers, so not sure who's responsibility it was (RB?). I think there were about 6 plays (going by memory) where there was significant interior pressure (the INT for instance, where Siemian threw early and kind of leaning back away from rush and couldn't step into throw).

[topscribe]

I think he's talking about defenses getting interior pushes against our O-line. In week 3, Garcia was beat badly multiple times. Paradis was beat. Leary was beat (although that could have been on Paradis as well). There were a couple others where it was stacked rushers, so not sure who's responsibility it was (RB?). I think there were about 6 plays (going by memory) where there was significant interior pressure (the INT for instance, where Siemian threw early and kind of leaning back away from rush and couldn't step into throw).
Thanks. I didn't use very good transition between my scattered thoughts. I think once the O-line
gels, they will be decent, but they played last week like one that is trying to gel. It's not going to
be pretty up there the first couple games or so, and I think the defense will have to carry them
during that time. But it will get better, provided Garcia isn't starting . . .

[Joel]

It kind of depends on how well the Cowboys can run the call without Elliott. If they can with McFadden or Morris, it could be a long year for their opponents, of which include the Broncos.
Not that I put much stock in what passes for statistical analysis at ESPN, but they showed Dallas' yds/att without Elliott only falling off a single yard last year. That's significant, but not big enough to lose any game they were otherwise favored to win. McFadden and Morris are both proven solid RBs in their own right (even if McFadden's showing some wear and age) and Dallas' line remains elite. Remember, DeMarco Murray was an elite RB right up until he left Dallas for a big payday. ;)

Dallas may not have its Terrell Davis or Clinton Portis when they play us, but their Reuben Droughns or Mike Anderson will probably do alright.


Injuries at the pass rusher positions and a lack of Wade Phillips.
I agree on both, plus we lost a very underappreciated dimeback/first alternate CB to FA. Maybe Doss or whoever is better, but the guys who drew up our 2016 depth chart didn't think so. I can't find a reason to expect a D that cut its starting NT (and possibly its Pro Bowl SS?) and swapped a legendary DC for a first timer will IMPROVE.

With our offense and schedule, that's not very encouraging.

[Poet]

10-6. Final prediction.

[topscribe]

10-6. Final prediction.
Yes, it just feels right. If Denver gets into the playoffs, they're going to have to beat very tough
teams there, anyway, so they might as well prepare for it in the regular season . . .

[Slick]

Bump.

I'm going to read this thread and see how wrong we all were.