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Tned
08-09-2017, 04:43 PM
In the spirit of waiting to see which, if any, of the Broncos QBs pan out.

How about this time killer: List in order the top three QBs drafted by the Broncos and explanation for each.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-09-2017, 05:04 PM
John Elway
Tommy Maddox
Jay Cutler

I will give you my three, but I will not give you my explanations because I am in traffic

Tned
08-09-2017, 05:07 PM
John Elway
Tommy Maddox
Jay Cutler

I will give you my three, but I will not give you my explanations because I am in traffic

I think some will take exception with your top pick.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-09-2017, 05:22 PM
I think some will take exception with your top pick.

True, since we didn't draft him.

Poet
08-09-2017, 05:24 PM
True, since we didn't draft him.

In your defense, I don't think anyone sans people being either super technical or cheeky would say that one of the best QB's the Chargers ever drafted was Eli Manning.

slim
08-09-2017, 05:30 PM
Paxton Lynch
Tommy Maddox
Brian Griese

BroncoJoe
08-09-2017, 05:31 PM
It was a trick question!

Tned
08-09-2017, 06:00 PM
In your defense, I don't think anyone sans people being either super technical or cheeky would say that one of the best QB's the Chargers ever drafted was Eli Manning.

Similar, but different. The Manning/Rivers trade was a draft day trade and much closer to simply being a trade of draft picks. However, if you want to be hyper technical, you can say Manning was their QB vs Rivers.

The Elway situation was far different. Drafted by another team, threatened to go play for the Yankees and the Broncos were able to trade for him.

It's marginally a trick question, but the point of the question with all of our QB discussion and throwing around QB of the future or franchise QB or the like, is to look at the Broncos history and discuss their history with drafting QBs of the future or franchise QBs.

In the case you gave, not only isn't it apples to apples (or anything close), either Manning or Rivers is far better than any QB the Broncos have ever drafted.

BroncoWave
08-09-2017, 06:05 PM
Cutler/Griese/Maddox seem like the pretty obvious top 3.

Poet
08-09-2017, 06:07 PM
Similar, but different. The Manning/Rivers trade was a draft day trade and much closer to simply being a trade of draft picks. However, if you want to be hyper technical, you can say Manning was their QB vs Rivers.

The Elway situation was far different. Drafted by another team, threatened to go play for the Yankees and the Broncos were able to trade for him.

It's marginally a trick question, but the point of the question with all of our QB discussion and throwing around QB of the future or franchise QB or the like, is to look at the Broncos history and discuss their history with drafting QBs of the future or franchise QBs.

In the case you gave, not only isn't it apples to apples (or anything close), either Manning or Rivers is far better than any QB the Broncos have ever drafted.

I gotcha. To me, since the Broncos traded their pick from that same class and year (Hinton) as well as other assets, it was a swap. Denver would have obviously drafted him if they could have, and traded assets and their pick for Elway. To me, that's almost like 'mega drafting' him. I've thought of it was 'if you swap the same players from the same class before their rookie seasons start' you essentially drafted him.

ShaneFalco
08-09-2017, 06:44 PM
Tebow/ Timothy/ Timmy

Simple Jaded
08-09-2017, 06:47 PM
Why do y'all do this to poor Shane?

Tned
08-09-2017, 07:06 PM
Cutler/Griese/Maddox seem like the pretty obvious top 3.

Agreed.

BroncoWave
08-09-2017, 07:07 PM
Why do y'all do this to poor Shane?

Yeah, I was thinking this thread was a pretty good lowkey troll of Shane. Well done, T!

Tned
08-09-2017, 07:11 PM
I gotcha. To me, since the Broncos traded their pick from that same class and year (Hinton) as well as other assets, it was a swap. Denver would have obviously drafted him if they could have, and traded assets and their pick for Elway. To me, that's almost like 'mega drafting' him. I've thought of it was 'if you swap the same players from the same class before their rookie seasons start' you essentially drafted him.

Very few people who have discussed it over the last 30+ years have evaluated it that way, vs. the Golden Boy making a threat to walk away from football that wasn't idle, since unlike few others that have made similar threats, he had a viable option.

On an unrelated note, I have a question. Is water wet?

Tned
08-09-2017, 07:12 PM
Yeah, I was thinking this thread was a pretty good lowkey troll of Shane. Well done, T!

I wouldn't do that. Shane and I bonded last year, and he's on my protected list.

ShaneFalco
08-09-2017, 07:21 PM
I wouldn't do that. Shane and I bonded last year, and he's on my protected list.

an unbreakable bond.

Poet
08-09-2017, 07:24 PM
Very few people who have discussed it over the last 30+ years have evaluated it that way, vs. the Golden Boy making a threat to walk away from football that wasn't idle, since unlike few others that have made similar threats, he had a viable option.

On an unrelated note, I have a question. Is water wet?

I get it. But when I look at it from the point of view of judging how the Broncos acted - they still, to me, basically drafted him.

Elway
Griese
Tebow

BroncoWave
08-09-2017, 07:25 PM
I get it. But when I look at it from the point of view of judging how the Broncos acted - they still, to me, basically drafted him.

Elway
Griese
Tebow

I could buy an argument of Tebow over Maddox, but over Culter???

Poet
08-09-2017, 07:29 PM
I could buy an argument of Tebow over Maddox, but over Culter???

I did it for The Rock. Erhm...The Falco!

Tned
08-09-2017, 07:29 PM
I get it. But when I look at it from the point of view of judging how the Broncos acted - they still, to me, basically drafted him.

Elway
Griese
Tebow

But, they didn't. They drafted a guard and traded for Elway after he held the Colts hostage. No revisionist history in thread. OP's rules.

Poet
08-09-2017, 07:31 PM
But, they didn't. They drafted a guard and traded for Elway after he held the Colts hostage. No revisionist history in thread. OP's rules.

Looking at things in an 'for all intents and purposes' way isn't revisionist history. I'll respect your desire for the thread, though.

Griese
Tebow
Cutler

ShaneFalco
08-09-2017, 07:33 PM
great selection king.

Tned
08-09-2017, 07:37 PM
Looking at things in an 'for all intents and purposes' way isn't revisionist history. I'll respect your desire for the thread, though.

Griese
Tebow
Cutler

What's your thinking on:

Tebow > Cutler
Tebox > Maddox

Poet
08-09-2017, 07:39 PM
What's your thinking on:

Tebow > Cutler
Tebox > Maddox

I'm mostly just making Falco happy.

The only time in Maddox's career that I saw was his stint in Pittsburgh. I don't actually think Tebow is better than Cutler, but as a Broncos' QB, I guess I'd argue that Cutler was a big part of a playoff collapse and Tebow at least played a part in a playoff win. But...I don't really buy it.

MOtorboat
08-09-2017, 07:43 PM
Jay Cutler
Brian Griese
Tommy Maddux

That's not a very good history of drafting quarterbacks.

Tned
08-09-2017, 08:03 PM
Jay Cutler
Brian Griese
Tommy Maddux

That's not a very good history of drafting quarterbacks.

As Broncos fans, we were very lucky to have Elway aquired via blackmail/trade and Manning via free agency. I think even some of the most ardent Plummer bashers probably realize that they might have underestimated how "easy" it would be to get a better QB, and of course we had Cutler and Griese bookending Plummer.

So, If we look at the last 33 seasons, your top three QBs by a wide margin are Elway, Manning and Plummer (obviously distant third to the other two) and then you could argue Cutler/Orton (I would argue Cutler I think, others would likely argue Orton).

So, 24 of the last 33 years with the best QB play came from trade/free agent signings. Then, setting aside last year, a horrible year with Tebow and the rest a mixed badk with Griese, Orton and Cutler (one of which was a trade).

Very few teams hit on a QB unless they are drafting 1st or 2nd, maybe top 5, and even those have a very high washout rates. Obviously, there is the odd 2nd rounder or even 6th rounder that turns out to be a franchise QB (or arguably best of all time), but they are few and far between.

If the Broncos didn't have so many damn winning seasons over the last 33 years, they would have had more shots at drafting legit franchise QB prospects. Bottom half of first round does not contain legit franchise QB prospects, they are mid to long-shot franchise QB prospects.

BroncoWave
08-09-2017, 08:31 PM
Jay Cutler
Brian Griese
Tommy Maddux

That's not a very good history of drafting quarterbacks.

It's pretty crazy. If you're listing all of the Broncos QBs, I don't know that any of those guys even eclipse Plummer or Morton, at least in terms of what they did as Broncos. We've definitely had more success acquiring QBs by other means.

MOtorboat
08-09-2017, 08:40 PM
It's pretty crazy. If you're listing all of the Broncos QBs, I don't know that any of those guys even eclipse Plummer or Morton, at least in terms of what they did as Broncos. We've definitely had more success acquiring QBs by other means.

Fourth and fifth on the Broncos list of QBs drafted in yards after those three played for the Vikings and Falcons in the 70s. Never played for the Broncos. Not sure what happened with either. Bob Berry and Randy Johnson.

BroncoWave
08-09-2017, 08:42 PM
Fourth and fifth on the Broncos list of QBs drafted in yards after those three played for the Vikings and Falcons in the 70s. Never played for the Broncos. Not sure what happened with either. Bob Berry and Randy Johnson.

Well, Randy Johnson went on to have a HoF baseball career, so there's that! :D

dogfish
08-09-2017, 11:31 PM
brock osweiler, jarious jackson, and bradlee van pelt. . .

MOtorboat
08-10-2017, 01:40 AM
Bradlee we love you!

Northman
08-10-2017, 05:28 AM
Jay Cutler
Brian Griese
Tommy Maddux

That's not a very good history of drafting quarterbacks.


Basically my list but not much to be uber happy about.

Tned
08-10-2017, 06:50 AM
Basically my list but not much to be uber happy about.

Agreed, not much to be happy about.

Speaking of happy. The main point of this thread was not to say we should be happy with what we have seen to date from Siemian or Lynch, but at least to put it in the perspective of how hard it is to find top 15 type, forget elite, QBs in the draft. Look at the Raiders, what did they have something like 15 years of top 10 or at worst top 15 picks, with a lot of years of top 5 in there. Cleveland. Texans. The list goes on.

Simple Jaded
08-10-2017, 03:18 PM
Bradlee Van Punk sits down to pee.

Joel
08-11-2017, 11:38 AM
Would the point be more clear if the question were "how many SB QBs have the Broncos drafted"? Hell, Elway was the only one who hadn't ALREADY played a SB before he even GOT to Denver. Maybe drafting a franchise QB is as overrated as it is rare. I bet Steve Young, Brett Favre and Kurt Warner would agree; probably even Jake Delhomme (the poor mans Kurt Warner.) ;)

Jsteve01
08-11-2017, 08:39 PM
Brian still makes me sick. easy to forget that that season that he injured his shoulder was starting out to be pretty remarkable. Man he looked good. But you take a quarterback who had subpar arm strength to begin with and then shred his shoulder and he just was never the same after that.

Tned
08-11-2017, 08:48 PM
Brian still makes me sick. easy to forget that that season that he injured his shoulder was starting out to be pretty remarkable. Man he looked good. But you take a quarterback who had subpar arm strength to begin with and then shred his shoulder and he just was never the same after that.

My up and down emotions, from the INT that ended TD's career, to as you said, him starting to really show some promise and then playing through the pain in the gain he got hurt.

dogfish
08-11-2017, 10:49 PM
Brian still makes me sick. easy to forget that that season that he injured his shoulder was starting out to be pretty remarkable. Man he looked good. But you take a quarterback who had subpar arm strength to begin with and then shred his shoulder and he just was never the same after that.

honestly, i think they broke him mentally more than physically. . . he got bad happy feet after that-- he never stood in there the same, he was always looking to get rid of it. . .