View Full Version : Les Shapiro says "I had football people tell me the day after Charles signed, 'don’t bet on him being on the opening day roster'"
Cugel
05-18-2017, 04:27 PM
Les Shapiro, CBS Broncos insider now with ESPN Radio thinks there's a "less than 50% chance" Jamaal Charles will even make it to the opening day roster - that is he thinks Charles will get hurt and cut during training camp or the pre-season. Here's the link (http://www.milehighreport.com/2017/5/17/15657044/is-jamaal-charles-going-to-make-the-broncos-roster).
He spoke to NFL personnel people and especially sources in KC that insist that Charles is done, that he's a 30 year old back and there's not a good history of bringing guys back at that point in their careers. He still likes the signing on a "what do you have to lose" basis?
He says: "do you think Kansas City would have let him go if he were healthy enough to play another season?"
Personally I think this is pure and absolute crappola! Les couldn't be more wrong!
First of all the Broncos aren't stupid enough to try and use Charles as the featured back and give him 20 runs a game between the tackles. The last time the Chefs tried that he lasted 3 games and there's no reason to think the Broncos would get more out of him in that situation.
They are going to use him as they used Ronnie Hillman - 3rd down specialist, change of pace back. They will give him maybe 5-10 carries a game tops, mostly on 3rd downs, and throw him the ball in the flat, and generally try and get him isolated in space on a LB.
That's the formula that worked so splendidly in 2013. That year the Broncos were the NFL's #1 Red Zone team because they had 5 weapons. In addition to Deckker and D.T. they had Wes Welker in the slot, plus Julius Thomas at TE who demanded double teams and could not be covered by a LB, and if somehow all those guys were covered, then they Knowshon Moreno catching 60 passes out of the backfield. Too many weapons, defenses couldn't cover them all.
They need to get back to that kind of Red Zone production and the key is having multiple threats. Not guys like Jacob Tamme or Virgil Green who could be covered easily with a LB, but real threats. Imagine this season or next if you could line up D.T. and Sanders with Henderson in the slot, Butt at TE and Charles coming out of the backfield? That could be a lethal combination. That's why the Broncos want Charles.
NOT to run the ball between the tackles 20 times a game, but limiting him to a 3rd down specialist, and a threat catching passes out of the backfield and in the flat.
Second of all the Chiefs cut Charles because he cost them about $12 M over the past couple of seasons and gave them no production due to injury. Sure, they could have cut him, and then re-signed him to an incentive laden contract, but they weren't willing to risk anything more on Charles. They got burned badly when he was hurt two years in a row. In 2015 he played 5 games and had 361 yards, and in 2016 he only lasted 3 games and got 41 yards. Of course they're not going to keep him after that!
It's the same thing as the Broncos with Ryan Clady. Why didn't the team sign Clady to a more "incentive laden" contract in 2016? Because they had been burned paying him $30 M for 3 seasons. He played a couple of games in 2013, all 16 in 2014, but he wasn't very good, and got injured in training camp in 2015. No way they were willing to take a chance on him after that! Same thing for the Chiefs and Charles.
But, the Jets were willing to risk signing Clady and he managed to start 8 games for them in 2016. He was probably worth it considering the price.
As for all the experts in KC who insist that Charles is washed up, they don't want to believe he could be healthy and be a threat for the Broncos! The last thing anybody associated with the Chiefs wants to see is him coming back to KC and scoring a TD for the Broncos! They have every incentive to insist he's washed up because that's what they desperately want to believe.
I'd be willing to bet he stays healthy and makes the opening day roster. Whether he lasts the season after that? Who knows? But, he certainly doesn't appear "washed up" at this point.
Les keeps going on about whether his knees are at "80%" or not. His knees are at 100% now. It's just a question of whether they will be up to lasting through an NFL season or not. But, if the Broncos don't abuse him by pounding him off tackle or use him as a substitute for CJ then I think he'll be fine.
BroncoJoe
05-18-2017, 04:31 PM
YAY!!!! Another Jamaal Charles thread!
Shazam!
05-18-2017, 05:51 PM
Did you buy a Charles jersey or something.
MOtorboat
05-18-2017, 06:04 PM
Did you buy a Charles jersey or something.
His Okung jersey it outdated now.
chazoe60
05-18-2017, 06:04 PM
Tldr
Nomad
05-18-2017, 07:26 PM
Was this from anonymous sources?
Cugel
05-18-2017, 10:20 PM
Was this from anonymous sources?
He didn't say. But, would sources in KC be totally objective about Jamaal Charles? It's not like they want him to succeed in Denver, because that would mean the Chiefs were stupid to let him go, yes? So, they'd like to think he's washed up. The Broncos however, have their own medical experts and they checked out Charles pretty thoroughly and cleared him before the Broncos signed him.
Which set of medical experts were right? We'll see. But, as I said in my initial post, there were more than one consideration in KC. Money was also a factor, as in the money they had already spent on Charles the last two years without getting anything in return. While Denver might be willing to risk a few millions on an incentive laden deal, KC, having already lost a booty-load of cash on Charles was not willing to risk it.
Northman
05-19-2017, 04:44 AM
Charles was a risk, there is simply no denying that and the Broncos know that.
Charles was a risk, there is simply no denying that and the Broncos know that.
And I was like, duh!
underrated29
05-19-2017, 01:37 PM
He is going to surprise people. He is probably going to play more than people guess imo. Love the signing!
Ive watched a ton of charles too as he has been my keeper for 5 years now. I think his knee will hold up and he will BEAST! Watch and see
I don't care if he is a beast personally. if he can get over 4 yards a pop and still is a quality receiving back, making him a viable weapon when he comes in, that's all I ask for. Just be a viable weapon, if you are a star that is icing, but just be someone the defense has to defend.
He is going to surprise people. He is probably going to play more than people guess imo. Love the signing!
Ive watched a ton of charles too as he has been my keeper for 5 years now. I think his knee will hold up and he will BEAST! Watch and see
Well, with UR saying this, he'll be cut next week. :laugh:
Cugel
05-19-2017, 03:48 PM
Jamaal Charles is a nightmare for defensive coordinators. If he gets free in your secondary you might not see him until he does his TD dance in the end zone. He routinely makes guys miss. He's a border-line Hall of Fame RB.
In fact if he won a SB with Denver and played a significant role in that championship, he might actually get in the Hall. He might ultimately get in anyway but not right away.
If the Broncos utilize him properly and don't wear him down, he should be OK. Can he hold up for an entire season? We'll see but as long as he's in the game, defenses have to be aware of where he lines up on every play and make sure that if he catches the ball they have multiple defenders on him immediately.
That is going to help the Broncos offense significantly, even if he's used primarily as a 3rd down change of pace back and pass catching threat out of the backfield.
I believe in Charles - if he doesn't make the roster I am going to be so damn sad.
I believe in Charles - if he doesn't make the roster I am going to be so damn sad.
I would say its 50/50, so you might want to prepare yourself.
I would say its 50/50, so you might want to prepare yourself.
You bring a whole new meaning to the term 'Broncos insider'.
Cugel
05-19-2017, 03:57 PM
I would say its 50/50, so you might want to prepare yourself.
I'd say it's closer to 75% he's on the opening day roster. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd be really surprised if he's unable to get to opening day. After all they are not going to overwork him in the pre-season. He'll get enough reps to get prepared for the season, but you're not going to see him much in pre-season games.
I'd say it's closer to 75% he's on the opening day roster. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd be really surprised if he's unable to get to opening day. After all they are not going to overwork him in the pre-season. He'll get enough reps to get prepared for the season, but you're not going to see him much in pre-season games.
You should take a look at TDs career and what happened when he tore up his knee.
You bring a whole new meaning to the term 'Broncos insider'.
I listen to 104.3 the fan.
I listen to 104.3 the fan.
No, you don't.
BroncoJoe
05-19-2017, 04:11 PM
You should take a look at TDs career and what happened when he tore up his knee.
Different injury.
Different injury.
Same results
BroncoJoe
05-19-2017, 04:15 PM
Same results
Peterson had nearly 1,500 yards after his first injury. TD had the same injury, but it resulted in microfractures in his knee. I don't believe JC has the same situation.
Peterson had nearly 1,500 yards after his first injury. TD had the same injury, but it resulted in microfractures in his knee. I don't believe JC has the same situation.
AP came back within a year. JC, not so much.
BroncoJoe
05-19-2017, 04:27 PM
AP came back within a year. JC, not so much.
You know, I just looked at his stats. Why aren't they better than I remember? Seemed like he torched the Broncos every time we played KC, which is basically the only time I watched him play.
They're actually not all that impressive.
You know, I just looked at his stats. Why aren't they better than I remember? Seemed like he torched the Broncos every time we played KC, which is basically the only time I watched him play.
They're actually not all that impressive.
He is on the downside, it happens.
I hope we catch lighting in a bottle, but it seems foolish to hang your hat on it.
JC had his best year coming off of an ACL year.
Joe, don't forget to factor in his catching ability.
Hawgdriver
05-19-2017, 04:33 PM
AP came back within a year. JC, not so much.
It was like, what, three days or something? Pretty impressive rehab.
It was like, what, three days or something? Pretty impressive rehab.
Beating childern strengthens your knees
Hawgdriver
05-19-2017, 04:40 PM
Beating childern strengthens your knees
No. JC. The resurrection.
No. JC. The resurrection.
Yeah, i get it. But NTL is lurking and we are not in P&R.
Hawgdriver
05-19-2017, 04:47 PM
Yeah, i get it. But NTL is lurking and we are not in P&R.
Don't mind me. I'm just over here cypping on this 60 minute. Time to crack open another! Happy Friday!
underrated29
05-19-2017, 04:51 PM
Well, with UR saying this, he'll be cut next week. :laugh:
Except when i say things like this I have never been wrong
Valar Morghulis
05-19-2017, 04:54 PM
Except when i say things like this I have never been wrong
Kapri Bibbs?
Don't mind me. I'm just over here cypping on this 60 minute. Time to crack open another! Happy Friday!
Lets cyp on NTL and see what happens.
Cugel
05-19-2017, 05:17 PM
Same results
Different results. First of all it took 2 years for TD to try and come back. Then he wasn't able to move very well. TD had a "bone on bone" condition in his knees after his injury due to the loss of cartilage. Jamaal Charles has had 2 ACL reconstructions. Completely different injuries. If Jamaal Charles had the same condition in his knee TD had the Broncos would never have signed him.
TDs injury was more akin to what happened to Courtney Brown after the 2005 season. His knees flared up every time he tried to run on them. If we start hearing that Charles has knee issues in training camp and has to sit out practices, etc., then we will know it's the same. As of right now though, he's 100% good to go.
Different results. First of all it took 2 years for TD to try and come back. Then he wasn't able to move very well. TD had a "bone on bone" condition in his knees after his injury due to the loss of cartilage. Jamaal Charles has had 2 ACL reconstructions. Completely different injuries. If Jamaal Charles had the same condition in his knee TD had the Broncos would never have signed him.
TDs injury was more akin to what happened to Courtney Brown after the 2005 season. His knees flared up every time he tried to run on them. If we start hearing that Charles has knee issues in training camp and has to sit out practices, etc., then we will know it's the same. As of right now though, he's 100% good to go.
Oh.
Well, the proof is in the pudding.
Can we talj about pudding outside of the lounge?
Nomad
05-19-2017, 05:26 PM
Well, with UR saying this, he'll be cut next week. :laugh:
UR does have that touch. :D
With JC's all around skill, if he is anywhere close to being healthy and shows that he is at-least a decent runner to go with his great pass catching, he will make the roster. He is on a cheap deal.
Slick
05-19-2017, 06:04 PM
He is going to surprise people. He is probably going to play more than people guess imo. Love the signing!
Ive watched a ton of charles too as he has been my keeper for 5 years now. I think his knee will hold up and he will BEAST! Watch and see
Except when i say things like this I have never been wrong
Kapri Bibbs?
Well, with UR saying this, he'll be cut next week. :laugh:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w309/slickdonkey7/my_tombstone_zpsmjyaeqt8.jpg (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/slickdonkey7/media/my_tombstone_zpsmjyaeqt8.jpg.html)
Slick hits him with the styledriver.
Jsteve01
05-21-2017, 02:11 AM
I love this signing. That's said my enthusiasm is tempered. Andy Reid if there's one thing I learned having lived in Philadelphia is pretty good at seeing when veterans are washed up. I can literally not think of one player that he let go that ended up being a stud elsewhere. see Stephenson, Donald, Jeremiah Trotter, McNabb and the lot
I love this signing. That's said my enthusiasm is tempered. Andy Reid if there's one thing I learned having lived in Philadelphia is pretty good at seeing when veterans are washed up. I can literally not think of one player that he let go that ended up being a stud elsewhere. see Stephenson, Donald, Jeremiah Trotter, McNabb and the lot
Asante Samuel is the only one I can think of.
Cugel
05-21-2017, 05:08 PM
I love this signing. That's said my enthusiasm is tempered. Andy Reid if there's one thing I learned having lived in Philadelphia is pretty good at seeing when veterans are washed up. I can literally not think of one player that he let go that ended up being a stud elsewhere. see Stephenson, Donald, Jeremiah Trotter, McNabb and the lot
KC has Ware & West and Tyreek Hill. Why would they want Charles after he was injured and useless the last 2 years? They have moved on. Between Ware & West they replaced Charles' production for less money. They rushed for 1200 yards and 4 TDs. Hill added 10 TDs.
They didn't need to take a chance on an aging veteran who might possibly, for the first time in 3 years, be healthy and stay healthy. He wasn't worth it to KC. He is worth it to Denver. That's all.
gregbroncs
05-21-2017, 05:23 PM
How could anybody be surprised that Charles may be done and probably has about a 50% chance of making the team? This is like when the Broncos signed Jerry Rice. If it works...great. If not...oh well no harm in trying to see if the guy can bring it one more time. I hope he comes in kills it and plays all year long, but I won't be surprised if he gets cut in the preseason. He's 30 and plays a position with a poor track record of guys being successful after that age. Add to that he's barely played the last few years and the odds of him beating the odds and staying healthy seem far fetched.
If anyone will feel disappointed if he isn't a stud you seriously need to lower your expectations and interpretation of success.
He isn't making stud money, no one in the organization feels he is coming in to be a stud.
He is being brought in to challenge and to contribute as a third down back.
If all he does is make it as a quality third down back, it was an awesome signing. If he fails to do that, it was a minor loss of investment.
Cugel
06-03-2017, 03:41 PM
How could anybody be surprised that Charles may be done and probably has about a 50% chance of making the team? This is like when the Broncos signed Jerry Rice. If it works...great. If not...oh well no harm in trying to see if the guy can bring it one more time. I hope he comes in kills it and plays all year long, but I won't be surprised if he gets cut in the preseason. He's 30 and plays a position with a poor track record of guys being successful after that age. Add to that he's barely played the last few years and the odds of him beating the odds and staying healthy seem far fetched.
Jerry Rice was, I think 42 when he arrived in Denver, so of course he was washed up! Jamaal Charles is 30 and hasn't done anything the last two years because of injury so he's completely fresh, not worn down at all. So, the only thing left is "is he healthy?" Well, he's healthy right now, but will he withstand the strain of playing in the NFL on those knees?
Nobody really knows the answer to that, but the Broncos medical staff examined him every way but loose and they concluded he can still play - and they issued that report BEFORE Elway would agree to sign him. If they cam back and said "the knee isn't stable" then the Broncos would reluctantly pass.
Other teams apparently did just that. Teams were interested in Jamaal but heir medical staffs said "pass."
Who knows who's right? It might be the other teams are right, but the Broncos think he's going to stay healthy for the entire sesaon, or they wouldn't give up a roster spot for him. Those roster spots are valuable and they'd be releasing another RB who could help them in order to keep Jamaal on the 53 - only to have him injured leaving the team a RB short if their medical eval is wrong.
WARHORSE
06-03-2017, 05:26 PM
Jamaal Charles is going to begin with the AFC West monday night in a campaign to shred the league in a year capped hoisting a Lombardi and a Superbowl MVP honor. Hes going to be running up and down the field, scoring touchdowns in bunches with one hand on the football and one hand pointing to the Broncos insignia on the side of his helmet.
Charles will score 4 touchdowns and run for over 200 against the chefs in a game this year, mark it on your calendar.
He knows when you are sleeping. He knows when youre awake. He knows when you been talking smack about him in the Broncosforums.
Nostradamus predicted Jamaal Charles in 2017 in flames. Those flames are bright orange flashes of Broncos glory.
John Elway will be answering questions all season about how he knew Charles was going to eat the league and John will say hes just glad he was able to get him to take some money because Charles wanted to play for the BRONCOS for free.
Trump, the first orange president, will be hosting the Denver Broncos in the WH next february.
So shall it be written.........so shall it be done.
Cugel
06-06-2017, 08:54 PM
"Charles will score 4 touchdowns and run for over 200 against the chefs "
Now THAT would be totally hilarious! The Chefs' fans' tiny little heads would explode if that happened!
10580
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
06-06-2017, 09:16 PM
"Charles will score 4 touchdowns and run for over 200 against the chefs "
Now THAT would be totally hilarious! The Chefs' fans' tiny little heads would explode if that happened!
10580
Is that Calvin? :laugh:
Simple Jaded
06-07-2017, 12:12 AM
Man...the funnies. They still have those?
DT88TheGreat
06-08-2017, 09:47 AM
Les Shapiro, CBS Broncos insider now with ESPN Radio thinks there's a "less than 50% chance" Jamaal Charles will even make it to the opening day roster - that is he thinks Charles will get hurt and cut during training camp or the pre-season. Here's the link (http://www.milehighreport.com/2017/5/17/15657044/is-jamaal-charles-going-to-make-the-broncos-roster).
He spoke to NFL personnel people and especially sources in KC that insist that Charles is done, that he's a 30 year old back and there's not a good history of bringing guys back at that point in their careers. He still likes the signing on a "what do you have to lose" basis?
He says: "do you think Kansas City would have let him go if he were healthy enough to play another season?"
Personally I think this is pure and absolute crappola! Les couldn't be more wrong!
First of all the Broncos aren't stupid enough to try and use Charles as the featured back and give him 20 runs a game between the tackles. The last time the Chefs tried that he lasted 3 games and there's no reason to think the Broncos would get more out of him in that situation.
They are going to use him as they used Ronnie Hillman - 3rd down specialist, change of pace back. They will give him maybe 5-10 carries a game tops, mostly on 3rd downs, and throw him the ball in the flat, and generally try and get him isolated in space on a LB.
That's the formula that worked so splendidly in 2013. That year the Broncos were the NFL's #1 Red Zone team because they had 5 weapons. In addition to Deckker and D.T. they had Wes Welker in the slot, plus Julius Thomas at TE who demanded double teams and could not be covered by a LB, and if somehow all those guys were covered, then they Knowshon Moreno catching 60 passes out of the backfield. Too many weapons, defenses couldn't cover them all.
They need to get back to that kind of Red Zone production and the key is having multiple threats. Not guys like Jacob Tamme or Virgil Green who could be covered easily with a LB, but real threats. Imagine this season or next if you could line up D.T. and Sanders with Henderson in the slot, Butt at TE and Charles coming out of the backfield? That could be a lethal combination. That's why the Broncos want Charles.
NOT to run the ball between the tackles 20 times a game, but limiting him to a 3rd down specialist, and a threat catching passes out of the backfield and in the flat.
Second of all the Chiefs cut Charles because he cost them about $12 M over the past couple of seasons and gave them no production due to injury. Sure, they could have cut him, and then re-signed him to an incentive laden contract, but they weren't willing to risk anything more on Charles. They got burned badly when he was hurt two years in a row. In 2015 he played 5 games and had 361 yards, and in 2016 he only lasted 3 games and got 41 yards. Of course they're not going to keep him after that!
It's the same thing as the Broncos with Ryan Clady. Why didn't the team sign Clady to a more "incentive laden" contract in 2016? Because they had been burned paying him $30 M for 3 seasons. He played a couple of games in 2013, all 16 in 2014, but he wasn't very good, and got injured in training camp in 2015. No way they were willing to take a chance on him after that! Same thing for the Chiefs and Charles.
But, the Jets were willing to risk signing Clady and he managed to start 8 games for them in 2016. He was probably worth it considering the price.
As for all the experts in KC who insist that Charles is washed up, they don't want to believe he could be healthy and be a threat for the Broncos! The last thing anybody associated with the Chiefs wants to see is him coming back to KC and scoring a TD for the Broncos! They have every incentive to insist he's washed up because that's what they desperately want to believe.
I'd be willing to bet he stays healthy and makes the opening day roster. Whether he lasts the season after that? Who knows? But, he certainly doesn't appear "washed up" at this point.
Les keeps going on about whether his knees are at "80%" or not. His knees are at 100% now. It's just a question of whether they will be up to lasting through an NFL season or not. But, if the Broncos don't abuse him by pounding him off tackle or use him as a substitute for CJ then I think he'll be fine.
The only way Charles isn't on this team is if he's not healthy. But he appears healthy and has that burst and acceleration.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
06-08-2017, 10:35 AM
The only way Charles isn't on this team is if he's not healthy. But he appears healthy and has that burst and acceleration.
That would be awesome.
Cugel
06-08-2017, 06:24 PM
The only way Charles isn't on this team is if he's not healthy. But he appears healthy and has that burst and acceleration.
I totally agree he has it now. So, the only question is "will he stay healthy throughout the season?" Because, he started the last 2 seasons healthy for the Chefs, only to go down pretty quickly in the regular season. But, the Chefs tried to run him into the middle of the defense 20+ times a game and the Broncos aren't stupid enough to do that! He's going to be the 3rd down change of pace back and pass catching threat out of the backfield. In short, a greatly superior version of Ronnie Hillman.
Cugel
06-08-2017, 06:26 PM
Is that Calvin? :laugh:
Pretty much!
10585
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
06-08-2017, 07:53 PM
Pretty much!
10585
Haha!
We have a sorted history with Calvin in our house. My kids have a big comic book of Calvin and Hobbs. My son has a stuffed animal of Hobbs. We've had a few discussions about what would happen if he didn't stop imitating Calvin's sarcastic behavior for the sake of entertainment. Kids have a way of pushing those boundaries.
FanInAZ
06-16-2017, 06:43 PM
Haha!
We have a sorted history with Calvin in our house. My kids have a big comic book of Calvin and Hobbs. My son has a stuffed animal of Hobbs. We've had a few discussions about what would happen if he didn't stop imitating Calvin's sarcastic behavior for the sake of entertainment. Kids have a way of pushing those boundaries.
Its very 1st strip was published November 18, 1985
http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1985/11/18
Too bad I can't copy and post the actual strip itself from this source.
Hawgdriver
06-16-2017, 07:44 PM
My 8 y/o son has read every Calvin and Hobbes at least 4 times. At least. Far Side is 2d. He won't get into chapter books.
Cugel
06-30-2017, 07:37 PM
My 8 y/o son has read every Calvin and Hobbes at least 4 times. At least. Far Side is 2d. He won't get into chapter books.
10641
I particularly like this one!
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