Report on Lynch's work ethic "Inappropriate and False"

[Jsteve01]

Klis is a Broncos dyed in the wool homer but I thought it would be nice to point this out. I find it funny that the guy always had the rep as quirky but a hard worker until some vague reports surfaced over the offseason. All while he was working his ass off every day with a qb coach.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2017/4/16/15320822/reports-about-the-broncos-having-a-problem-with-quarterback-paxton

[LawDog]

Didn't this slag rise up during the whole "Let's trade Romo" nonsense? If so, how does a Cowboys writer think this was somehow going to induce Denver into making a trade? Unless it was simply a ploy to get Houston thinking that Denver was unhappy with Paxton and thus more interested in Romo to drive up the price? In any case, just stoopid media stuff.

[Poet]

We can now conclude that the opposite must be true and Lynch is the hardest worker in the world!

[Buff]

Show us don't tell us.

[BeefStew25]

Mark sanchez is a hard worker.

[slim]

So are Tim Tebow and Peyton Manning.

[Hawgdriver]

Mia Khalifa is a hard worker. Literally.

[BroncoJoe]

Mia Khalifa is a hard worker. Literally.

Well, at least her coworkers are...

:drum:

[Hawgdriver]

I mean, she works in the hard industry.

[Freyaka]

Oh well, if Klis says it....

Let's see it on the field. When I see him make a vast improvement in camp and preseason, then we can talk about how great his work ethic is

[Simple Jaded]

Oh well, if Klis says it....

Let's see it on the field. When I see him make a vast improvement in camp and preseason, then we can talk about how great his work ethic is

Butthurt much?

[NightTerror218]

Oh well, if Klis says it....

Let's see it on the field. When I see him make a vast improvement in camp and preseason, then we can talk about how great his work ethic is

Or the reports he is one of the first to arrive for off season work outs.

[BroncoWave]

Or the reports he is one of the first to arrive for off season work outs.

Which the QB always should be. Now we'll see how that translates to his play on the field.

[Poet]

If he plays on the level of TS last year his talent will elevate the team. If we want to contend for a SB we have to hope that PL goes ham.

[Freyaka]

Butthurt much?

No, not at all. First off... It's Klis, him saying it is no indicating that it's God's gospel... Camp reports mean very little. Lets see it in action on the field... If he's really working that hard, great, it should translate into his play. I don't give a crap what any of these reports say, negative or positive, I want to see the improvement that comes with the hard work.

[Northman]

The only reason why i would doubt the article is because of how long it took to come out. I mean, the talk of PL not being a hard worker has been stated a few times over the course of the past 6 months or so. Where was Klis's insight back then? Never the less, im with a few others here. If he is THE guy than he needs to prove it and beat Siemian out of a job.

[Nomad]

Show us don't tell us.

Yep. Proof will be on the field, not word of mouth either way. Hoping the best the guy lights it up.

[slim]

No, not at all. First off... It's Klis, him saying it is no indicating that it's God's gospel... Camp reports mean very little. Lets see it in action on the field... If he's really working that hard, great, it should translate into his play. I don't give a crap what any of these reports say, negative or positive, I want to see the improvement that comes with the hard work.

So camp reports mean nothing, but unsubstantiated offseason rumors are where you hang your hat?

Sounds legit.

[Freyaka]

So camp reports mean nothing, but unsubstantiated offseason rumors are where you hang your hat?

Sounds legit.

Does he work hard, does he not work hard? Does it matter? We'll know if he wins the starting job. I didn't claim the unsubstantiated rumors as gods gospel truth either, I posted them to spark discussion, because this is a discussion board, people need things to talk about otherwise it gets boring around here. Keep making it a bigger deal than it is slim... Keep trying to put words in my mouth just like Yash/Lynch12/DTwhateverthehellhisnameis. I'm not some Paxton hater over here, despite my propensity to troll Lynch12 about him.

Talk is cheap, bottom line, he didn't work hard enough to be the starter last year. That could be because he was just too far from being ready. This is his shot this year, he'd better bust his ass off and beat Trevor otherwise if Trevor has a good year, he may not have another chance.

I want the best QB on gameday, the name on the back isn't as important as the W/L record at the end of the season. I like Trevor, he's got a good attitude, he's funny and he's an underdog story which is always cool. I don't have a lot of reasons to like Paxton yet, that's not to say I can't...All I got to go on right now is he looks like a backstreet boy/pirate love child.

[slim]

Does he work hard, does he not work hard? Does it matter? We'll know if he wins the starting job. I didn't claim the unsubstantiated rumors as gods gospel truth either, I posted them to spark discussion, because this is a discussion board, people need things to talk about otherwise it gets boring around here. Keep making it a bigger deal than it is slim... Keep trying to put words in my mouth just like Yash/Lynch12/DTwhateverthehellhisnameis. I'm not some Paxton hater over here, despite my propensity to troll Lynch12 about him.

Talk is cheap, bottom line, he didn't work hard enough to be the starter last year. That could be because he was just too far from being ready. This is his shot this year, he'd better bust his ass off and beat Trevor otherwise if Trevor has a good year, he may not have another chance.

I want the best QB on gameday, the name on the back isn't as important as the W/L record at the end of the season. I like Trevor, he's got a good attitude, he's funny and he's an underdog story which is always cool. I don't have a lot of reasons to like Paxton yet, that's not to say I can't...All I got to go on right now is he looks like a backstreet boy/pirate love child.

He didn't work hard enough to be the starter last year? Sorry, but that is a ridiculous statement.

Also, please don't compare me to Yash. That is disrespectful and hurtful and I am a sensitive fella.

[Nomad]

He didn't work hard enough to be the starter last year? Sorry, but that is a ridiculous statement.

Also, please don't compare me to Yash. That is disrespectful and hurtful and I am a sensitive fella.

Ha Ha....you were compared to Yash. :lol:

[slim]

Ha Ha....you were compared to Yash. :lol:

Yash is my stylebrother.

[Freyaka]

Ha Ha....you were compared to Yash. :lol:

I mean if it fits, it ships... :lol:

[Freyaka]

He didn't work hard enough to be the starter last year? Sorry, but that is a ridiculous statement.

Also, please don't compare me to Yash. That is disrespectful and hurtful and I am a sensitive fella.

I mean, if Trevor's nothing more than a 7th round Kyle Orton as some around here claim, it shouldn't have been difficult at all for him to win the starting job. Trevor sucks after all amirite? :beer:

[Jsteve01]

I'm not sold on much that's been stated about either of them. I believe in the eyeball test and I also like unbiased assessment from people who understand the position. Most are pretty high on both of them excluding injury and inexperience. We now have Three guys with a ton of physical ability and one with a Northwestern degree on the roster. Are any of them franchise? Not sure but damn this is fun

[Freyaka]

I'm not sold on much that's been stated about either of them. I believe in the eyeball test and I also like unbiased assessment from people who understand the position. Most are pretty high on both of them excluding injury and inexperience. We now have Three guys with a ton of physical ability and one with a Northwestern degree on the roster. Are any of them franchise? Not sure but damn this is fun

I'm ready for the preseason. I want to see how much QB1/QB2 have grown and determine where we are at.

[Poet]

I'm ready for the preseason. I want to see how much QB1/QB2 have grown and determine where we are at.

Man, wouldn't it be funny if they both burned out but Chad Kelly became our future HOF QB?

[Freyaka]

Man, wouldn't it be funny if they both burned out but Chad Kelly became our future HOF QB?

I just don't see that happening this year. Anythings possible, but it would not be wise to have a 3-way split at first team reps. Doing so would water down the growth of all three QB's. It's bad enough having a QB battle at all because both Paxton and Trevor need as many reps as they can get, but to add a third QB to the mix...

Kelly has the potential, but he's going to have to spend the offseason proving that he can grow as a person, right now his biggest flaws are character flaws, those don't often get fixed overnight.

[Poet]

I just don't see that happening this year. Anythings possible, but it would not be wise to have a 3-way split at first team reps. Doing so would water down the growth of all three QB's. It's bad enough having a QB battle at all because both Paxton and Trevor need as many reps as they can get, but to add a third QB to the mix...

Kelly has the potential, but he's going to have to spend the offseason proving that he can grow as a person, right now his biggest flaws are character flaws, those don't often get fixed overnight.

I don't think it can happen, tbh. I'm just saying it would be funny if that's how it played out.

[Jsteve01]

I love the potential of Sloter, Kelly and Paxton. Hard not to love the physical ability. For all of us spoiled Broncos fans who grew up rooting for the Duke, It's nice to have some specimens again, but at the end of the day I just want the guy that wins

[Jsteve01]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap3000000804988/Mayock-Without-medical-and-character-issues-Kelly-is-Round-1-QB

fun fun fun

[Nomad]

Mentally.....Chad Kelly is the equivalent of walking a pitbull, off leash, in a kids park... regardless if well trained.

[Poet]

So he's a gentle creature that likes to play and protect his family?

[BroncoJoe]

He'll go to IR this year. They won't cut him, and won't put him on the practice squad. It's really their only option. Another team would grab him in the other scenarios.

[Nomad]

So he's a gentle creature that likes to play and protect his family?

I have 2, and I wouldn't trust them in a kid's park off leash, but they are very loyal and big babies to us.

[OrangeHoof]

"CNN...the most busted name in news."

(Cowboy News Network, what did you think I meant?)

[OrangeHoof]

Mentally.....Chad Kelly is the equivalent of walking a pitbull, off leash, in a kids park... regardless if well trained.

Well, PFM had some similar issues...

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/united-way/n12129?snl=1

[BroncoWave]

He didn't work hard enough to be the starter last year? Sorry, but that is a ridiculous statement.

Also, please don't compare me to Yash. That is disrespectful and hurtful and I am a sensitive fella.

Yeah, that's a low blow comparing you and yash like that. I would never insult yash like that. :D

[DT88TheGreat]

Oh well, if Klis says it....

Let's see it on the field. When I see him make a vast improvement in camp and preseason, then we can talk about how great his work ethic is

Work ethic has nothing to do with no being able to put it together on the field. Some guys work.hard but cant be good or elite because they don't have the tools like a Trevor. Now that the bullshit reports of his work ethic have been dismissed as non credible which I know hurts you a bit we can move on to seeing if the work has paid off. Trust me if the competition is equal then the job is paxtons because projecting forward Hell only get better and.he has all the tools McCoy is looking for in his offense.

[DT88TheGreat]

Butthurt much?

Very butt hurt, once his click.bait article has.been crushed he doesn't say well that's great he just says.....meh I don't really buy it well see in camp. Smh.

[DT88TheGreat]

The only reason why i would doubt the article is because of how long it took to come out. I mean, the talk of PL not being a hard worker has been stated a few times over the course of the past 6 months or so. Where was Klis's insight back then? Never the less, im with a few others here. If he is THE guy than he needs to prove it and beat Siemian out of a job.

Over the past 6 months? Lol the bullshit article from the Dallas reporter came out when there was literally zero football activities going on. Now that they have had football activities and people can really see him in action the real reports are coming about how great his work ethic is but you choose to.be skeptical because of a dallas writer making some shit up when there is zero football activities? Other than lynch working since the off season started with a qb guru to perfect his craft? I dont get why it seem like people want Paxton to fail. He is our most talented franchise ttpe quarterback, we need him to work out so we can be legit contenders every year.

Klis would have only been able to tell the reporter to shut his mouth back then, instead klis waited until ACTUAL football stuff started to.gage lynch work ethic like a real reporter instead throwing anything out there.

[DT88TheGreat]

So camp reports mean nothing, but unsubstantiated offseason rumors are where you hang your hat?

Sounds legit.

I knew when I read his Paxton lynch hatred he used to have with lynch12 was legit. This guy genuinely hates Paxton because of his love for a mediocre likeable Trevor.

[DT88TheGreat]

I'm not sold on much that's been stated about either of them. I believe in the eyeball test and I also like unbiased assessment from people who understand the position. Most are pretty high on both of them excluding injury and inexperience. We now have Three guys with a ton of physical ability and one with a Northwestern degree on the roster. Are any of them franchise? Not sure but damn this is fun

Who are the 3 guy's with tons of physical ability?

[DT88TheGreat]

Man, wouldn't it be funny if they both burned out but Chad Kelly became our future HOF QB?

Chad kelly has a shot to be a big time QB in this league if he puts it all together.

[Hawgdriver]

Who are the 3 guy's with tons of physical ability?

I think he was referring to Trevor Siemian, Trevor Siemian, and Trevor Siemian.

[DT88TheGreat]

I think he was referring to Trevor Siemian, Trevor Siemian, and Trevor Siemian.

Lol oh okay. Well I beg to differ on Trevor having any great physical ability. Dude has game manger, back up Qb ability. Brian billick said there is noway that Trevor can lead the Broncos to the Super bowl unless denver has another all world defense where the offense didn't even matter that year. I believe billick is correct.

[BroncoWave]

I knew when I read his Paxton lynch hatred he used to have with lynch12 was legit. This guy genuinely hates Paxton because of his love for a mediocre likeable Trevor.

Wait, how do you know who Lynch12 is when you didn't post back when he did? Unless, you know, you are Lynch12.

#staywoke

[Valar Morghulis]

Wait, how do you know who Lynch12 is when you didn't post back when he did? Unless, you know, you are Lynch12. #staywoke

Duh, he read the forum history. Knows you as btb, and also knows you to be a ****

[DT88TheGreat]

Wait, how do you know who Lynch12 is when you didn't post back when he did? Unless, you know, you are Lynch12.

#staywoke

I have already given you all the blueprint on how to gather intel on reading peope old post. It comes in handy, because as much as he says he was just being a troll he is still showing great disdain for Paxton. Hoping Paxton fails so the Broncos can continue another season with poor to mediocre quarterback play pioe the last 3 season.

And when you are constantly being call (yash) (lynch) and (king) I wanted to go and see what they all were about.

[BroncoWave]

Duh, he read the forum history. Knows you as btb, and also knows you to be a ****

:( .

[BroncoWave]

I have already given you all the blueprint on how to gather intel on reading peope old post. It comes in handy, because as much as he says he was just being a troll he is still showing great disdain for Paxton. Hoping Paxton fails so the Broncos can continue another season with poor to mediocre quarterback play pioe the last 3 season.

Cool story, Lynch12.

[DT88TheGreat]

Cool story, Lynch12.

Whatever dude.

Back to the subject of the thread. I knew the reports were crap to begin with. Lynch is not going to throw away all his god given talent because he didn't work hard enough. Be doesn't strike be as that kind of guy. Prepare for the long balls and deep outs and post with accuracy and zip come training camp and pre season. Chad kelly will eventually be the number 2 until hes traded for a first round pick.

[Freyaka]

Work ethic has nothing to do with no being able to put it together on the field. Some guys work.hard but cant be good or elite because they don't have the tools like a Trevor. Now that the bullshit reports of his work ethic have been dismissed as non credible which I know hurts you a bit we can move on to seeing if the work has paid off. Trust me if the competition is equal then the job is paxtons because projecting forward Hell only get better and.he has all the tools McCoy is looking for in his offense.

It doesn't hurt me at all, I think i've repeated myself 20 plus times that I never thought or claimed the reports as truth...but you still keep assuming I hate the kid, but the fact that you are so full of snarkiness in your response means I'm getting under your skin.

It's no skin off my back Yash. The best QB will win the job and I'll be supporting the name on the front regardless of the name on the back. I want a QB who is going to win, whoever that is, but go ahead and keep accusing me of hating Paxton it's humorous that it bothers you so much.

[Freyaka]

I have already given you all the blueprint on how to gather intel on reading peope old post. It comes in handy, because as much as he says he was just being a troll he is still showing great disdain for Paxton. Hoping Paxton fails so the Broncos can continue another season with poor to mediocre quarterback play pioe the last 3 season.

And when you are constantly being call (yash) (lynch) and (king) I wanted to go and see what they all were about.

Man, ya'll smell that? It's the stench of BS, this kid is covered in it.

[Freyaka]

I knew when I read his Paxton lynch hatred he used to have with lynch12 was legit. This guy genuinely hates Paxton because of his love for a mediocre likeable Trevor.

LMAO man you just double down on this crap don't you? Nevermind the fact a that it goes against everything I've said lately. I've even pointed out that all the lynch hatred I spewed when you were lynch12 was basically just trying to get a rise out of you to see the fun reaction. Kinda the same reaction you are having now.

Wonder what your next username will be? I don't hate Lynch. I do like Trevor, I won't lie about that, but I'm a Broncos fan first and foremost, players come second to my overall fanhood.

I want what is best for the team kiddo, no matter which QB that is.

[Jsteve01]

Who are the 3 guy's with tons of physical ability?

are you joking? Sloter, Kelly, and Lynch

[Cugel]

Lol oh okay. Well I beg to differ on Trevor having any great physical ability. Dude has game manger, back up Qb ability. Brian billick said there is noway that Trevor can lead the Broncos to the Super bowl unless denver has another all world defense where the offense didn't even matter that year. I believe billick is correct.

Well, outside of Tom Brady and Kurt Warner, both Hall of Famers, it's never happened [6th round or later SB Champion]. So, Billick is probably right.

But, John Elway has over $100M from all those Car Dealerships and he's not getting up at 5:00 AM and working till late at night because he has to. He's doing it because he wants to have more SB championships than Bill Belichick. And he needs a top 10 QB to get that.

He's already signed 2 more QBs this off-season. And if Trevor or Paxton doesn't convince him that they can become a SB Champion QB, then he's going right back to the 2018 draft and drafting a QB in the first or second round.

And he's going to keep on doing that until he finds a guy he likes. So, if Trevor doesn't really, really impress this season, he won't be the starter next season and he may be gone.

"Always keep swapping mokes in mid-stream till you find one that won't founder." -- Abraham Lincoln. [moke = mule]

[DT88TheGreat]

are you joking? Sloter, Kelly, and Lynch

Oh okay, I thought Trevor was being including since it's a very slim chance sloter hangs on.

[DT88TheGreat]

LMAO man you just double down on this crap don't you? Nevermind the fact a that it goes against everything I've said lately. I've even pointed out that all the lynch hatred I spewed when you were lynch12 was basically just trying to get a rise out of you to see the fun reaction. Kinda the same reaction you are having now.

Wonder what your next username will be? I don't hate Lynch. I do like Trevor, I won't lie about that, but I'm a Broncos fan first and foremost, players come second to my overall fanhood.

I want what is best for the team kiddo, no matter which QB that is.

You don't act like it though, you take shots at Paxton all the time, present and past.

[BroncoWave]

You don't act like it though, you take shots at Paxton all the time, present and past.

Oh, ok yash.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I think he was referring to Trevor Siemian, Trevor Siemian, and Trevor Siemian.

Definitely.

[Freyaka]

You don't act like it though, you take shots at Paxton all the time, present and past.

Yes, I take shots at him, to get on your nerves... The rest of the time I'm pretty level headed about him. He's not my guy, but if he wins the starting job he will be my guy because I support the starting QB of this team. Let it go yash.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140528072653/disney/images/1/1e/Stickerline-elsa-let-it-go.png


And besides, you take shots at TS all the time so what do you care of someone takes shots at your precious savior QB with the pirate stache? It's a two way street kiddo, don't dish what you can't take back.

[DT88TheGreat]

Stop calling me yash and lynch, I am DT88.

[Nomad]

Stop calling me yash and lynch, I am DT88.

Your name would have been cooler if it was DDT. :D

[DT88TheGreat]

And for the record I have only repeated what many GMs, and former coaches have said about trev and that's that he is physically limited and he's a career back up quarterback. Brian Billick literally just said it.

[DT88TheGreat]

Your name would have been cooler if it was DDT. :D

What's DDT mean?

[Nomad]

What's DDT mean?

My apologies, just trying to ease the tensions. It was supposed to be a funny. :D DDT is an old wrestling move. DT is a damn good WO, though.

[DT88TheGreat]

My apologies, just trying to ease the tensions. It was supposed to be a funny. :D DDT is an old wrestling move. DT is a damn good WO, though.

Oh yeah I recall that move, haven't watched wrestling in a decade though, there's no tension here though nomad. Thanks for trying to be the peace though. You're a good man. How many months behind are you now or have you caught up? :)

[Nomad]

Oh yeah I recall that move, haven't watched wrestling in a decade though, there's no tension here though nomad. Thanks for trying to be the peace though. You're a good man. How many months behind are you now or have you caught up? :)

Yeah, I had a brain fart on Osweiler to Cleveland. :lol:

[Simple Jaded]

No, not at all. First off... It's Klis, him saying it is no indicating that it's God's gospel... Camp reports mean very little. Lets see it in action on the field... If he's really working that hard, great, it should translate into his play. I don't give a crap what any of these reports say, negative or positive, I want to see the improvement that comes with the hard work.

Yeah, if Klis said the same thing about Siemian you'd post a link of that article in your sig.

[Northman]

So he's a gentle creature that likes to play and protect his family?

Or attack and kill the little kids. :lol:

[Northman]

Over the past 6 months? Lol the bullshit article from the Dallas reporter came out when there was literally zero football activities going on. Now that they have had football activities and people can really see him in action the real reports are coming about how great his work ethic is but you choose to.be skeptical because of a dallas writer making some shit up when there is zero football activities? Other than lynch working since the off season started with a qb guru to perfect his craft? I dont get why it seem like people want Paxton to fail. He is our most talented franchise ttpe quarterback, we need him to work out so we can be legit contenders every year.

Klis would have only been able to tell the reporter to shut his mouth back then, instead klis waited until ACTUAL football stuff started to.gage lynch work ethic like a real reporter instead throwing anything out there.

There was actually more reports than just the Dallas reporter. :lol:

But im far from wanting Paxton to fail so im not sure where you are pulling that garbage from.

[Freyaka]

Yeah, if Klis said the same thing about Siemian you'd post a link of that article in your sig.

No, I'm an equal opportunity Klis hater man...

[Freyaka]

There was actually more reports than just the Dallas reporter. :lol:

But im far from wanting Paxton to fail so im not sure where you are pulling that garbage from.

This is why I dislike people that can't separate the player from the team. I like TS, he's a likeable guy, but my loyalty to him ends as soon as he's not our QB. My heart belongs fully with the team. Player fans get so obsessed with one player being the ONLY ONE capable of leading this team that anyone who isn't 100 percent for him, wants him to fail.

Even I who supposedly "hate" Lynch don't want he guy to fail. Him failing is a waste of a first round pick. Ideally I'd like both TS and Lynch to succeed because then we can turn one of the two into more draft picks on down the line somewhere. (and no, I won't protest regardless which of the two it is)

But since I'm not a Paxton Lynch fan, by default I hate him and want him to fail, and since you spoke against him, you too hate him and want him to fail...And this is why I antagonize these guys...because of mindsets like this...

[CoachChaz]

Josh Allen 2018

[Northman]

Josh Allen 2018

From what ive read he could go #1 which i doubt Denver will have that pick unless they give up the farm for it.

[CoachChaz]

From what ive read he could go #1 which i doubt Denver will have that pick unless they give up the farm for it.

Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Jackson, Rudolph, Falk, Stidham, Fitzgerald, Litton...take your pick. The 2018 QB class could be one of the deepest ever.

[Simple Jaded]

I want nothing to do with Lamar Jackson.

[Valar Morghulis]

I want nothing to do with Lamar Jackson.

Because he's black?

[Simple Jaded]

Because he's black?

Is he African American? I hadn't noticed, it's ok that you did, tho.

[BroncoWave]

Because he's black?

We don't take kindly to those types around here.

[Poet]

We don't take kindly to those types around here.

45 is a number that popped into my head.

[DT88TheGreat]

Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Jackson, Rudolph, Falk, Stidham, Fitzgerald, Litton...take your pick. The 2018 QB class could be one of the deepest ever.

Probably only 3 of them amount to anything.

[DT88TheGreat]

I want nothing to do with Lamar Jackson.

Lamar jackson is very talented, his arm is one of the best and he has the wheels that'll suck the life out of defenders when he keeps extending drives with his legs and his arm.

[NightTerror218]

Lamar jackson is very talented, his arm is one of the best and he has the wheels that'll suck the life out of defenders when he keeps extending drives with his legs and his arm.

RG3 qas prerry good too. So was other who used legs too much.

[DT88TheGreat]

Rg3 came into the league with 2 torn up knees, then got another one. Which ruined him.

[Simple Jaded]

Lamar jackson is very talented, his arm is one of the best and he has the wheels that'll suck the life out of defenders when he keeps extending drives with his legs and his arm.

Ok, so what?

Let me guess, he's gonna revolutionize the game?

[Simple Jaded]

Rg3 came into the league with 2 torn up knees, then got another one. Which ruined him.

His ego ruined him.

[DT88TheGreat]

Ok, so what?

Let me guess, he's gonna revolutionize the game?

Not revolutionize the game but win super bowls. And that's the ultimate name of the game, granted he goes to a team that has a clue how to build a team around a talented quarterback unlike the Colts.

[DT88TheGreat]

His ego ruined him.

That too, many would say he earned his injuries with the ttype of mentality he had and how he carried himself.

[DT88TheGreat]

His ego ruined him.

That too, many would say he earned his injuries with the ttype of mentality he had and how he carried himself.

[Simple Jaded]

That too, many would say he earned his injuries with the ttype of mentality he had and how he carried himself.

And Snyder swinging from his short-and-curlies.

[Simple Jaded]

Not revolutionize the game but win super bowls. And that's the ultimate name of the game, granted he goes to a team that has a clue how to build a team around a talented quarterback unlike the Colts.

This...Because small WR-sized QB's that can't read defenses have been so successful at winning SB's?

[Simple Jaded]

Siemian is 6-3/220-ish, that's as frail as I'm willing to go at that position, especially if he's just a one or two read/tuck it and run neophyte.

[DT88TheGreat]

This...Because small WR-sized QB's that can't read defenses have been so successful at winning SB's?

Russell wilson hasn't won a super.bowl? Rex Grossman made it to a super bowl, lamar isnt even small lol. If he was injury prone then fine, but WHEN has he not been durable? Ive seen guys who were big prototype supposedly and fragile as hell. Trevor size isn't the issue his body just isn't durable.

BTW Lamar is 6'3 210.

Drew brees is probably 5'11 185 lol.

Sorry but your preference ain't saying much brother. Qbs of many sizes win rings if they are good enough.

[Northman]

Qb's who were supposed to change and revolutionize the game.

Michael Vick- No Rings
Vince Young- No Rings
Tim Tebow- No Rings
RG3- No Rings
Cam Newton- No Rings

And yes, you heard it here first. Jackson will not be winning any rings.

As one of the QB's who falls into the "hybrid" category and won a SB that would be Wilson although he was smart enough to adapt his game to being a pass first and uses his legs when necessary and not as a crutch.

[DT88TheGreat]

Im glad you can look into the future and know who will use his legs more than his arm.. Could you give me Chad kelly and Paxton Lynch future run to pass ratio as well?

[DT88TheGreat]

Lamar jackson went from 12tds passing and 8ints as a freshman

30 passing touchdowns and 8 ints as a sophomore.

Clearly his arm talent is what hes using the most and he is getting better and better. But yet some are going to hate because he's black and has speed? So he's listed amongst other blacks who had speed? I'll take jackson talent over any QB on the Broncos roster right now.

[CoachChaz]

Probably only 3 of them amount to anything.

Which is probably 3 more than this year will provide.

[Hawgdriver]

Which is probably 3 more than this year will provide.

You don't think Mahomes will amount to much then.

[dogfish]

Stop calling me yash and lynch, I am DT88.

how about we call you J-walk, and you tell us about your very fine four-story house?

[DT88TheGreat]

how about we call you J-walk, and you tell us about your very fine four-story house?

Time to dig up whoever j walk is.

[Northman]

Lamar jackson went from 12tds passing and 8ints as a freshman

30 passing touchdowns and 8 ints as a sophomore.

Clearly his arm talent is what hes using the most and he is getting better and better. But yet some are going to hate because he's black and has speed? So he's listed amongst other blacks who had speed? I'll take jackson talent over any QB on the Broncos roster right now.

Good thing you arent running the team.

[Simple Jaded]

Russell wilson hasn't won a super.bowl? Rex Grossman made it to a super bowl, lamar isnt even small lol. If he was injury prone then fine, but WHEN has he not been durable? Ive seen guys who were big prototype supposedly and fragile as hell. Trevor size isn't the issue his body just isn't durable.

BTW Lamar is 6'3 210.

Drew brees is probably 5'11 185 lol.

Sorry but your preference ain't saying much brother. Qbs of many sizes win rings if they are good enough.

Please! Don't mention Jackson in Wilson's light, Wilson is the exception. If Wilson were 6-3/220-ish he'd been the 2nd pick in that draft and who then knows if Seattle or Wilson have nearly the same success. Either way, he's a real QB.

Brees and Jackson? Give it up.

Jackson is a butthair over 6-1 and barely 200lbs, and he's nowhere near as skilled as Wilson and Brees.

We do this every ****ing year...Pathetic.

[Simple Jaded]

Qb's who were supposed to change and revolutionize the game.

Michael Vick- No Rings
Vince Young- No Rings
Tim Tebow- No Rings
RG3- No Rings
Cam Newton- No Rings

And yes, you heard it here first. Jackson will not be winning any rings.

As one of the QB's who falls into the "hybrid" category and won a SB that would be Wilson although he was smart enough to adapt his game to being a pass first and uses his legs when necessary and not as a crutch.

Hybrid is spot on for Wilson, the rest are Point Guards playing QB/RB. It's the wave of the future, unfortunately, but not because they're so good for the game but because that's all the college game produces these days.

QB's used to call their own plays! Let that sink in...because the college QB of today a basically coached like trained circus animals.

[Simple Jaded]

The even bigger exception is Dak Prescott, he's going to be a true pocket passer.

[DT88TheGreat]

Please! Don't mention Jackson in Wilson's light, Wilson is the exception. If Wilson were 6-3/220-ish he'd been the 2nd pick in that draft and who then knows if Seattle or Wilson have nearly the same success. Either way, he's a real QB.

Brees and Jackson? Give it up.

Jackson is a butthair over 6-1 and barely 200lbs, and he's nowhere near as skilled as Wilson and Brees.

We do this every ****ing year...Pathetic.

Not trying to hear it. You didn't have a clue like anybody else what russ would turn into so for you to sit here and have some hard core stance is hilarious. The whole short qb can't win is bs and Jackson has a great shot at being yet another one.

[DT88TheGreat]

The even bigger exception is Dak Prescott, he's going to be a true pocket passer.

These guys are clearly not.coming out like vick, young, etc who all just relied on there feet. These newers guys just happen to be fast and still aiming to perfect the art of throwing. Any time you jump from 12 passing touchdowns to 30 you are working hard. It's not like he's in a poor conference either.

[Simple Jaded]

Not trying to hear it. You didn't have a clue like anybody else what russ would turn into so for you to sit here and have some hard core stance is hilarious. The whole short qb can't win is bs and Jackson has a great shot at being yet another one.

You're the detective, go back and look, I said that exact same thing about "Russ" before the draft. Wilson was popular around here, I didn't want him but he had a lot of fans here.

My quotes are there, happy hunting.

Btw, get it right...I never said short QB's can't win SB's.

[Simple Jaded]

These guys are clearly not.coming out like vick, young, etc who all just relied on there feet. These newers guys just happen to be fast and still aiming to perfect the art of throwing. Any time you jump from 12 passing touchdowns to 30 you are working hard. It's not like he's in a poor conference either.

Tebow worked hard.

[DT88TheGreat]

The fact that you didn't want a SB quarterback says all a person needs to know about how you held him having legs against him, thinking he'd just be another short guy with legs.

The next quarterback to be a star with his arm and legs will be francouis from FSU, he has great wheels but loves standing strong in the pocket and throws a beautiful hell with a beautiful release. But let me guess he's just a gimmick QB as well right?

[DT88TheGreat]

Tebow worked hard.

Tebow never had arm talent like Jackson does. There is no amount of work you can put in when you just don't have the arm talent.

[Cugel]

Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Jackson, Rudolph, Falk, Stidham, Fitzgerald, Litton...take your pick. The 2018 QB class could be one of the deepest ever.

That's what all the scouts are saying right now. Right now is way early days though. Guys will rise and guys will fall before then. Still there should be some great prospects in that draft. And that's what they will remain until a couple of years in the league. Prospects.

Elway will take a look at Paxton this season and decide "Do I think this kid will develop into a top 10 QB in this league?"

If the answer is "no" then he'll draft a QB probably in the first or second round - and develop that guy into his franchise QB. If the answer is "maybe - he's showing signs of possibly becoming that kind of QB" he'll probably wait a year.

But, Trevor would have to improve just as much in 2017 as he did in 2016 to have any chance at all because nobody in the NFL thought he had elite talent coming out of college.

You can say "it doesn't matter where you were drafted" but clearly it does. Teams evaluate you based on where their talent scouts had you evaluated and you value the opinions of other talent scouts around the league.

And every single one of those guys took a look at Trevor and said "pass". Six times.

Then one team said "ah, what the hell. We need a training camp arm, let's draft this Siemian kid in the 7th round. Maybe we can develop him on the practice squad for a year and we'll see if we have anything."

Well, he exceeded those low expectations so far, by becoming a starter. But he wasn't a very good starter so the jury is still out on that.

Glass is half full: "Look at how much progress he made starting for a bad offensive team, with two broken bones in his left shoulder! Give him another year with an improved offensive line, and a couple more weapons in the red zone and a better running game, and watch his dust!"

Glass is half empty: "Yeah, but he still sucked pretty bad, and there's no assurance he hasn't already hit his ceiling. He could fail to improve this year. This ain't Cleveland where they would build a statue to Trevor if he won 8 games. Is Trevor showing signs of ever becoming a top 10 QB? So far, no. Then, if he doesn't improve at least as much this year as he did last year, bye-bye!"

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

The even bigger exception is Dak Prescott, he's going to be a true pocket passer.

I really hope Wave doesn't see this, but what Prescott has done is amazing. He was a putrid passer his junior year, and the improvement to his senior year was good, but he still didn't look like an NFL passer. He will be a great QB if he continues to improve

[Poet]

I'm telling Wave!

[Cugel]

I'm telling Wave!

Ancient Ethiopian saying: "Better not to leap in order not to weep. Better to keep your peace and avoid an early decease!"

[Poet]

Von Kinger fears no man.

[CoryWinget81]

How can anyone with a broken shoulder, trying to replace a hall of famer and keep a 1st round pick on the bench, show that he's capable of being a top 10 qb?

Siemian with the offense healthy and healthy himself embarrassed the Packers. He certainly looked capable of being a top 10 QB when he was taking a SB contender to the shed.

[Poet]

Did we play the packers in the preseason? Because we didn't play them in the regular season.

[BroncoJoe]

Did we play the packers in the preseason? Because we didn't play them in the regular season.

I think he must be talking about a different team - we didn't play the Packers at all last year.

[CoryWinget81]

Did we play the packers in the preseason? Because we didn't play them in the regular season.

Had green bay on the brain.

it was Cincy.

My point still stands.

[slim]

Had green bay on the brain.

it was Cincy.

My point still stands.

Except Cincy was 6-9-1 and wasn't even close to being a SB contender. So, your point does not stand. It is six feet under.

[Poet]

Had green bay on the brain.

it was Cincy.

My point still stands.

Cincinnati's defense at the start of the year was ass awful. They ended up being a horrible team, and are sliding back into the 90's. They sucked. And while TS had a really nice game, a lot of the credit should go to the WR's who were so wide open that even a guy who struggled with deep passes hit them.

I've seen some good defenses of TS play. This one doesn't persuade me, but I understand what you're getting at.

[CoryWinget81]

Except Cincy was 6-9-1 and wasn't even close to being a SB contender. So, your point does not stand. It is six feet under.

They were 1-1 when we played them and they WERE seen as a contender, your revisionist history notwithstanding.

[BroncoJoe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNAwNAcChns

Yep. He certainly doesn't have an NFL caliber arm...

:rolleyes:

[Poet]

They were 1-1 when we played them and they WERE seen as a contender, your revisionist history notwithstanding.

But they still a bad team. He's not revising history when he says that the Bengals sucked. Last year a lot of teams were seen as contenders - that doesn't impact what they are/were on the field.

[slim]

They were 1-1 when we played them and they WERE seen as a contender, your revisionist history notwithstanding.

lol.

In the final analysis they were garbage. To me, the final analysis is far more important than the crystal ball analysis you are alluding to. But then I be smart.

[Freyaka]

I mean we can argue back and forth "my point has more validity than yours" bottom line...camp needs to hurry the hell up. It's time to see this QB comp in action and see who comes out victorious.

I'm very ready to see how much progress both QB's have made.

[Poet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNAwNAcChns

Yep. He certainly doesn't have an NFL caliber arm...

:rolleyes:

Does this video show him struggle to get the ball out with zip on sideline passes? Or does it show him have to put all of his body into the deep throws, to the point where he overthrows guys down the field, which is a sign of lacking arm strength. Or did you just put up a highlight video of him completing some nice passes in the NFL and go 'there, he has an NFL arm'.

We know what you did! WE KNOW IT!

[CoryWinget81]

But they still a bad team. He's not revising history when he says that the Bengals sucked. Last year a lot of teams were seen as contenders - that doesn't impact what they are/were on the field.

When we played them, they were not viewed as a team that sucked. They were viewed as a team that wouldve likely been deeper in the playoffs the year previous, if they had not lost their QB.

If this the point of contention, then I'm okay with that.

TS looked great before he was injured, and didn't look great at all after being rushed back out because Lynch is a muppet. That's all I was trying to say. Kind of.

[Poet]

I mean we can argue back and forth "my point has more validity than yours" bottom line...camp needs to hurry the hell up. It's time to see this QB comp in action and see who comes out victorious.

I'm very ready to see how much progress both QB's have made.

I'm glad that you're here as a poster. I hate you though....and you smell like poop.

[BroncoJoe]

Paxton had some good moments too. Can't wait to see which one will step up this year!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bJ0-i1zRC0

[Poet]

When we played them, they were not viewed as a team that sucked. They were viewed as a team that wouldve likely been deeper in the playoffs the year previous, if they had not lost their QB.

If this the point of contention, then I'm okay with that.

TS looked great before he was injured, and didn't look great at all after being rushed back out because Lynch is a muppet. That's all I was trying to say. Kind of.

Well, when we played them, they were viewed as a team with expectations. Then they miserably failed to live up to those expectations because they were bad. They were also a team known to implode and struggle with the utmost adversity. I think a few weeks later we looked back on that win and realized that it wasn't as impressive as it felt. At least we've met the point of contention well.

I don't think he ever looked great. He was bad against Carolina, but that defense was stout, it was the first game of the year, etc. I don't blame him for that. Most of his game logs were...eh. Frey is right...bring on the camps.

[CoryWinget81]

Paxton had some good moments too. Can't wait to see which one will step up this year!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bJ0-i1zRC0

He's definitely got some upside. I do think it's funny that in just the first few plays of this "highlight" video, he almost throws two picks and gets a 4 yard gain what should have been a sack from holding the ball too long.

As VJ said: "...Paxton's talllll..."

[BroncoJoe]

Does this video show him struggle to get the ball out with zip on sideline passes? Or does it show him have to put all of his body into the deep throws, to the point where he overthrows guys down the field, which is a sign of lacking arm strength. Or did you just put up a highlight video of him completing some nice passes in the NFL and go 'there, he has an NFL arm'.

We know what you did! WE KNOW IT!

I was not aware that a QB is required (in your eyes) to complete 100% of his passes effortlessly.

[Poet]

I was not aware that a QB is required (in your eyes) to complete 100% of his passes effortlessly.

He struggles with those passes because he lacks arm strength and he's struggled with those passes even in college. Lighten up, Francis. I hate you uptight argumentative posters who can't have any fun on the board! Relax! Life is good.

[Freyaka]

I'm glad that you're here as a poster. I hate you though....and you smell like poop.

Aw, thank you! You smell like poop too!

[Poet]

Aw, thank you! You smell like poop too!

Mostly because I hang out with you pieces of shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

[BroncoJoe]

He struggles with those passes because he lacks arm strength and he's struggled with those passes even in college. Lighten up, Francis. I hate you uptight argumentative posters who can't have any fun on the board! Relax! Life is good.

Uh, hello mirror!

LOL. Life is good. Very good.

[Poet]

Uh, hello mirror!

LOL. Life is good. Very good.

Time for a nap!

[BroncoJoe]

Time for a nap!

Sleep well. You're still in your growing years!

[Poet]

Sleep well. You're still in your growing years!

Only my belly. )=

[Cugel]

Cincinnati's defense at the start of the year was ass awful. They ended up being a horrible team, and are sliding back into the 90's. They sucked. And while TS had a really nice game, a lot of the credit should go to the WR's who were so wide open that even a guy who struggled with deep passes hit them.

I've seen some good defenses of TS play. This one doesn't persuade me, but I understand what you're getting at.

I am reminded of the ancients who tried to probe the secrets of the future by reading the portents revealed by the Gods in Sheep entrails.

We don't have a very good idea what either of these two QBs can do, if anything.

Paxton didn't start much and when he did he was basically told "don't try and do anything too much and for God's sake don't turn the ball over!" They had him out there trying not to fail, which is no way to succeed. So, he sucked. He would have sucked anyway because he wasn't at all NFL ready coming from a spread offense at Memphis. Critics satirize the college spread offenses by saying the coach holds up a picture of a bunny on the sideline and that's one play, and a picture of a goat, and that's another play. Not really, but it is simplistic.

Trevor started a lot more games, but it was still the Kubiak system which can best be described as "conservative". Hopelessly archaic might be a better way to describe it. Can he loosen up and throw deeper passes? Probably, but. . . .

#1 the OL was so horrible he was under instant pressure all the time. If that isn't fixed neither of these guys will last long. It appears to be better this year with the addition of Landy and Watson, hopefully getting Paradis finally healthy and moving Max Garcia over to RG instead of Schofield or whoever. But, we thought the OL was better last year with the addition of Okung & Stephenson, and it wasn't. So, we'll see. I'm not thrilled about starting a rookie LT in Bolles. Just because you draft a guy at #20 doesn't make him great. We have no idea this kid can even play at the NFL level, and I'd be a lot happier if they had a decent veteran guy they could start at LT until the rookie is ready. But, unless Stephenson or Sambrailo suddenly turns into a decent starting LT they don't.

So, that could be the hole in the bottom of the ship that sinks the Broncos season. We'll have to wait and see.

#2 the Broncos lacked any weapons outside of D.T. and Sanders, and you could double both of them on almost every play. In 2013 when Peyton was setting that 55 TD NFL record, he had DT & Decker, PLUS Wes Welker who was an elite slot receiver, and Julius Thomas who was a matchup nightmare because you couldn't cover him with a LB and he was too big and physical for a CB or safety. And if all those guys were covered they still had Knowshon Moreno catching 60 passes out of the backfield. Too many red zone targets to cover them all.

They are trying to get back to that kind of multiple offensive threats, with the draft of Carlos Henderson who projects to be the starting day slot receiver, and TE Jake Butt who is an every down physical TE who is an inside threat. If those guys pan out then Trevor or Paxton would have multiple red zone targets who could do something with the ball if they caught it - for the first time since 2014.

Then they add Jamaal Charles who is a monster threat whenever you get him the ball in space. The offense just got a lot better - ON PAPER.

So, if all the talent pans out, then we get to see if Trevor or Paxton shows signs they will ever become a top 10 QB. What Elway wants is a QB who is about as good as Derek Carr or Phillip Rivers. If neither guy projects as a top 10 QB by seasons' end, then ELway will go back to the draft in 2018 and get another QB in the first round.

[Joel]

I am reminded of the ancients who tried to probe the secrets of the future by reading the portents revealed by the Gods in Sheep entrails.
Yes, predicting seasons based on draft picks, training camp and local beat reporters is much like that: Combing over awful offal, vainly seeking profundity.

[Cugel]

Yes, predicting seasons based on draft picks, training camp and local beat reporters is much like that: Combing over awful offal, vainly seeking profundity.

Ah, Joel! Where would we be without your giant orange hoof in the middle of everything?!

I like The Orange Offal(tm). My friends tell me I'm obsessed with Broncos news. My retort is: "everybody has a hobby man and it beats the hell out of model trains or stock car racing."

I think I'm right though. I don't believe we can tell what either of these guys will do based on last season. Last season was Trevor's first year starting, and he was seriously injured during much of it. Plus, the offense was horrible. Paxton was a raw rookie, and he was only used in an emergency when Trevor couldn't play, and he wasn't allowed to go out and perform. The Coaching staff to,ld him to go out and try not to screw things up.

This is not generally the best way to get a good performance out of anybody: "Gods, I didn't want to have to do this, but Paxton, since Trevor can't go, I guess you're starting. OK, here's the plan. We can't run the ball, and we don't trust you to throw it either. Now go out there and don't mess it up for our defense and we'll try and win 12 to 10 or something." He looked lost out there and the complete lack of faith of the coaching staff in him probably had something to do with it.

Kubiak was so down on Paxton that he shoved Trevor out there in the meaningless final game, when Trevor probably should have been in the hospital having surgery on his left shoulder at the time. Nobody in the locker room after the game even cared that they had won, because the team had failed to make the playoffs as defending SB champion, and Kubiak had already resigned. Yet there was Trevor. Starting.

[Simple Jaded]

Seimian doesn't struggle to make any throw, his arm is well above average.

[Poet]

Seimian doesn't struggle to make any throw, his arm is well above average.

Man...

[BroncoWave]

Wait, did I seriously just read someone say that it's more relevant that the Bengals were predicted to be good than the fact that they actually weren't good last year? What the actual hell?

[Poet]

Wait, did I seriously just read someone say that it's more relevant that the Bengals were predicted to be good than the fact that they actually weren't good last year? What the actual hell?

You did.

[BroncoWave]

You did.

That dude just styled on himself.

[Poet]

That dude just styled on himself.

Who among us have not self-styled?

Wave, what do you make of TS struggling on the same throws in the pros that he did in college? Especially deep ball throws and the sideline out throws? It's weird that some of his passes he can put zip on and the other ones they're utter shit. Some of it is probably mechanics, I presume. Do certain throws require different types of arm strength? Is there different type of arm strength? Why does Chaz smell bad?

Share with us your wisdom.

[BroncoWave]

Who among us have not self-styled?

Wave, what do you make of TS struggling on the same throws in the pros that he did in college? Especially deep ball throws and the sideline out throws? It's weird that some of his passes he can put zip on and the other ones they're utter shit. Some of it is probably mechanics, I presume. Do certain throws require different types of arm strength? Is there different type of arm strength? Why does Chaz smell bad?

Share with us your wisdom.

Chaz smells bad because he is a bad person. As for TS, I would classify his arm as average at best. I mean, it's adequate enough to be passable, like a Chad Pennington, but he's never gonna make a pro bowl. I think he'll stick around for a while as a journeyman though.

[Hawgdriver]

Chaz smells bad because he is a bad person. As for TS, I would classify his arm as average at best. I mean, it's adequate enough to be passable, like a Chad Pennington, but he's never gonna make a pro bowl. I think he'll stick around for a while as a journeyman though.

I think

now.

My personal pet peeve lately is sentence structure that uses action clauses such as:

I think
I feel
I believe
I would
I mean

#selfoctothorping

so hey, check this out
10506

credit to That's Good Broncos (seriously who isn't subscribed by now?)

Siemian has Flacco upside imo. Not sure if Siemian will ever develop that weird omegabomb deep ball tho. But I have them in the same boat. Cerebral, cool, solid. But not gamechangery.

[Freyaka]

Mostly because I hang out with you pieces of shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Hey, once this team wins the Superbowl again this year, no one is going to care about what each other smells like.

[Cugel]

Chaz smells bad because he is a bad person. As for TS, I would classify his arm as average at best. I mean, it's adequate enough to be passable, like a Chad Pennington, but he's never gonna make a pro bowl. I think he'll stick around for a while as a journeyman though.

Trevor's advantage is that he's extremely smart. Smarter than Paxton. He also knows that as a 7th round pick the NFL does not view him as a starter. His one chance is with Denver. If he's ever cut loose from here, he might not ever get another chance.

So, he works hard. He's a try-hard guy. But, this is a "do good" league, not a "try hard" league. Nobody cares if you work hard, ultimately it's around production.

So, the BILLION $ question around Trevor is: "can he use his native intelligence and hard work to overcome his mediocre athletic skills?"

With Paxton it's "Can Paxton ever learn the system? Can he learn the playbook? Can he ever learn to read NFL defenses properly? Will he ever translate that natural athletic talent into production on the field? "

The problem for Trevor is that Elway won't be satisfied with another Kyle Orton as his starting QB. The bar is a lot higher than that.

For Elway to win more SBs he needs a top 10 QB - equal to Phillip Rivers or Derek Carr in this division. A guy capable of winning 12 or 13 games a year if surrounded by a decent team.

And is Trevor ever going to be that guy ? Probably not. Is Paxton? Who knows?

But, if neither convinces Elway that he's a top 10 QB in the making, then he will go out in the 2018 draft and draft another QB in the first round.

[Poet]

Hawgington, those sentence structures are informal and conversational - I've always found that type of structure to be welcoming on a message board.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Hawgington, those sentence structures are informal and conversational - I've always found that type of structure to be welcoming on a message board.

I think I would feel better if I hadn't used a dictionary twice yesterday because of Hawg.

[G_Money]

Hawgington, those sentence structures are informal and conversational - I've always found that type of structure to be welcoming on a message board.

Message board fights start for the same reasons relationship ones do: calling out other people with 100% declarative statements and blame. "I think" and "I feel" statements are what you're supposed to do so that fragile egos don't have to start flailing in all directions looking for a fight.

"I" statements keep the peace. "You" statements and statements attributing unassailable fact to matters of opinion begin flame wars in the home and online.

It's just harder to throw vases at another person's noggin online, so the "I feel" stuff is left behind.

[Freyaka]

I think

now.

My personal pet peeve lately is sentence structure that uses action clauses such as:

I think
I feel
I believe
I would
I mean

#selfoctothorping

so hey, check this out
10506

credit to That's Good Broncos (seriously who isn't subscribed by now?)

Siemian has Flacco upside imo. Not sure if Siemian will ever develop that weird omegabomb deep ball tho. But I have them in the same boat. Cerebral, cool, solid. But not gamechangery.

I would show you some compassion for your pet peeve, but I think that it's very likely that I don't care. I believe in letting posters post however they feel. I mean, you don't want to be a grammar nazi do you? I feel like that wouldn't be a good thing, don't you?

:laugh:

Love the Bollesdor picture :D

#imatroll

[Poet]

I think I would feel better if I hadn't used a dictionary twice yesterday because of Hawg.

I mean, you know what I mean?

Hawgington is not scared to whip out his spectacular vernacular, flexicon his lexicon, etc.

[LawDog]

Message board fights start for the same reasons relationship ones do: calling out other people with 100% declarative statements and blame. "I think" and "I feel" statements are what you're supposed to do so that fragile egos don't have to start flailing in all directions looking for a fight.

"I" statements keep the peace. "You" statements and statements attributing unassailable fact to matters of opinion begin flame wars in the home and online.

It's just harder to throw vases at another person's noggin online, so the "I feel" stuff is left behind.

I tend to post under this theory, unless pointing out absolute asininity. From Cug's (or Hawg's, whoever) list I am okay with "I think", and "I believe"; the rest should be banned to the same hole as writing in passive voice. JMHO.

[Slick]

I think

now.

My personal pet peeve lately is sentence structure that uses action clauses such as:

I think
I feel
I believe
I would
I mean

#selfoctothorping

so hey, check this out
10506

credit to That's Good Broncos (seriously who isn't subscribed by now?)

Siemian has Flacco upside imo. Not sure if Siemian will ever develop that weird omegabomb deep ball tho. But I have them in the same boat. Cerebral, cool, solid. But not gamechangery.

Perna was funny like 3 years ago. I can't watch his videos anymore.

[Freyaka]

Perna was funny like 3 years ago. I can't watch his videos anymore.

You shut your face! Perna is Bronco royalty!

Sounds like
#beardenvy

[Poet]

I tend to post under this theory, unless pointing out absolute asininity. From Cug's (or Hawg's, whoever) list I am okay with "I think", and "I believe"; the rest should be banned to the same hole as writing in passive voice. JMHO.

Why do you hate the passive voice?

[Poet]

Dog,

http://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/passive-voice/

I read that. Your point is well taken.

[Hawgdriver]

I think I would feel better if I hadn't used a dictionary twice yesterday because of Hawg.

Blame Davii! He's the Original Octothorper.

[Hawgdriver]

I tend to post under this theory, unless pointing out absolute asininity. From Cug's (or Hawg's, whoever) list I am okay with "I think", and "I believe"; the rest should be banned to the same hole as writing in passive voice. JMHO.

It doesn't bother me when someone else uses "I think" and so on, but when I use it, I don't like it.

I've used it excessively and found myself thinking 'why not just state your thought instead of hiding behind 'I think...'?'

[Hawgdriver]

Perna was funny like 3 years ago. I can't watch his videos anymore.

This is my shocked face.

[Hawgdriver]

Message board fights start for the same reasons relationship ones do: calling out other people with 100% declarative statements and blame. "I think" and "I feel" statements are what you're supposed to do so that fragile egos don't have to start flailing in all directions looking for a fight.

"I" statements keep the peace. "You" statements and statements attributing unassailable fact to matters of opinion begin flame wars in the home and online.

It's just harder to throw vases at another person's noggin online, so the "I feel" stuff is left behind.

What you say makes sense. I am a natural conflict-resolver--rather than a pot-stirrer--so my inclination is excessive use of softening language. My pet peeve is related to my own tread-lightly writing style, and I notice it less with others. I strive for a more forceful and present writing style.

[slim]

What you say makes sense. I am a natural conflict-resolver--rather than a pot-stirrer--so my inclination is excessive use of softening language. My pet peeve is related to my own tread-lightly writing style, and I notice it less with others. I strive for a more forceful and present writing style.

I mainly just try to spell most of the words right and hope to get close on punctuation.

[Poet]

What you say makes sense. I am a natural conflict-resolver--rather than a pot-stirrer--so my inclination is excessive use of softening language. My pet peeve is related to my own tread-lightly writing style, and I notice it less with others. I strive for a more forceful and present writing style.

I changed my style to 'I think' etc. when I was told numerous times that I was too forceful with my language. I like it in the sense that it comes off as just an opinion. But, sometimes when I'm writing a memo for work, or an evaluation, it's just so tepid.

[Freyaka]

I mainly just try to spell most of the words right and hope to get close on punctuation.

Lol, I just swype and hope my phone doesn't make me sound like an uneducated dunce. The ole swype and pray approach.

[Freyaka]

I changed my style to 'I think' etc. when I was told numerous times that I was too forceful with my language. I like it in the sense that it comes off as just an opinion. But, sometimes when I'm writing a memo for work, or an evaluation, it's just so tepid.

Ya, I've gotten criticized for this at work. I will say things like "I don't feel that a callback is justified in this situation" and my boss will email me and be like "you sound like you don't know how to do your job, say it doesn't need a callback, not you don't think it does"

[CoryWinget81]

Lol, I just swype and hope my phone doesn't make me sound like an uneducated dunce. The ole swype and pray approach.

Yeah. That's what it is. Swype.
:D

[Poet]

Ya, I've gotten criticized for this at work. I will say things like "I don't feel that a callback is justified in this situation" and my boss will email me and be like "you sound like you don't know how to do your job, say it doesn't need a callback, not you don't think it does"

And then sometime you'll take that logic and then someone will get cranky. Or, you do that all the time like you 'should' and then people go 'he always thinks that he knows what's right.'

Humans are awful.

[slim]

And then sometime you'll take that logic and then someone will get cranky. Or, you do that all the time like you 'should' and then people go 'he always thinks that he knows what's right.'

Humans are awful.

Or if you have more than one boss, they will disagree about writing style and then you can never win!!

#thestruggleisreal

[Poet]

Or if you have more than one boss, they will disagree about writing style and then you can never win!!

#thestruggleisreal

I have about five different bosses. I've made a list of their preferences and cater to them best I can.

[BroncoJoe]

I have about five different bosses. I've made a list of their preferences and cater to them best I can.

So, you're a bitch?

:yo:

[Poet]

So, you're a bitch?

:yo:

I tend to be the 'go to' person who solves problems, offers good analysis, and the like. But I know what you mean, you bastage!

[Slick]

You shut your face! Perna is Bronco royalty!

Sounds like
#beardenvy


This is my shocked face.

He used to be funny. His schtick has gotten old. What can I say.

[CoryWinget81]

So, you're a bitch?

:yo:

Aren't we all?

Can you walk up to your boss and say "go **** yourself, you're an idiot", mean it, and keep your job?
No? You're a bitch. :laugh: (self employed people or business owners are exempt from this statement, for obvious reasons)

[Poet]

I think that -oh god dammit it strikes again- until you can cuss out your boss, or your biggest customer, you're a bitch.

[Poet]

So, you're a bitch?

:yo:

Man...I'm now less than enthused to go to work soon.

[Freyaka]

Yeah. That's what it is. Swype.
:D

Hey, I've seen some of the stuff you swype on messenger, you've got little room to talk, especially when it's drunk cory who is doing the swyping.

[BroncoJoe]

Aren't we all?

Can you walk up to your boss and say "go **** yourself, you're an idiot", mean it, and keep your job?
No? You're a bitch. :laugh: (self employed people or business owners are exempt from this statement, for obvious reasons)

Let's just say this - I've had VERY frank conversations with my boss. I've never told him to "go **** yourself, you're an idiot" because I've never felt that way, but we've had several conversations where expletives have been thrown around.

And yes, I still have my job.

[Freyaka]

He used to be funny. His schtick has gotten old. What can I say.

I dunno, I still find him more entertaining than 3/4th of the garbage on the internet.

[CoryWinget81]

Let's just say this - I've had VERY frank conversations with my boss. I've never told him to "go **** yourself, you're an idiot" because I've never felt that way, but we've had several conversations where expletives have been thrown around.

And yes, I still have my job.


:laugh: fair enough.

[CoryWinget81]

Hey, I've seen some of the stuff you swype on messenger, you've got little room to talk, especially when it's drunk cory who is doing the swyping.

First, its Gboard, second

pffffft

[BroncoJoe]

I tend to be the 'go to' person who solves problems, offers good analysis, and the like. But I know what you mean, you bastage!

Go make me a sandwich.

tia.

[Freyaka]

First, its Gboard, second

pffffft

Same difference...

[MOtorboat]

The Chronicles of Joe: American Badass.

[BroncoJoe]

The Chronicles of Joe: American Badass.

Better than being a wuss, MO.

[CoryWinget81]

Better than being a wuss, MO.

I just told my boss to go f himself. As he was walking away I said "I MEAN IT!" and he laughed and kept walking.

...is that bad?

[Northman]

I called my boss a "d1ck" before i left work tonight, he laughed. He's a Raiders fan so he expected it. lol

[Freyaka]

I called my boss a "d1ck" before i left work tonight, he laughed. He's a Raiders fan so he expected it. lol

If he's a Raiders fan, I'm surprised he didn't shank you and laugh over your corpse...That's more of a Raideresque behavior.

[BroncoJoe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avfQJgHH5Fs

Hmmmm.

[CoryWinget81]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avfQJgHH5Fs

Hmmmm.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AuigP8gezc

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

My boss is a Bills fan. I try to be nice.

[LawDog]

Dog,

http://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/passive-voice/

I read that. Your point is well taken.

I don't "hate" it. I do hate when it is used by lazy habit instead of by choice when warranted. I actually like it when defense attorneys use it, because I love winning.

[Poet]

Go make me a sandwich.

tia.

There's a better chance of you growing a full head of hair in a day than of me making you a sandwich.

[BroncoJoe]

I just have no idea how you can watch these videos, and still cling to the claim that Siemian doesn't have a strong arm, and can't make all the throws.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nssM4kRZ1DM

[MOtorboat]

Pretty simple. Because those are only his good throws.

[BroncoJoe]

Pretty simple. Because those are only his good throws.

Ah yes. I forgot that all QB's should be rated on 100% of their throws. I mean, it's realistic to expect perfection on every throw.

[MOtorboat]

Ah yes. I forgot that all QB's should be rated on 100% of their throws. I mean, it's realistic to expect perfection on every throw.

That's not what I said. But you do rate someone on their entire performance not just the parts you like.

[BroncoJoe]

That's not what I said. But you do rate someone on their entire performance not just the parts you dislike.

I agree. 100%.

[chazoe60]

I just told my boss to go f himself. As he was walking away I said "I MEAN IT!" and he laughed and kept walking.

...is that bad?

Was he walking away from or toward the deep fryer?

[slim]

I just have no idea how you can watch these videos, and still cling to the claim that Siemian doesn't have a strong arm, and can't make all the throws.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nssM4kRZ1DM

He is no Paxton Lynch.

[BroncoJoe]

He is no Paxton Lynch.

And... ?

[slim]

And... ?

And nothing. That's it.

[chazoe60]

He is no Paxton Lynch.

At least he's not Kyle Orton.

[slim]

At least he's not Kyle Orton.

IDK, he is a lot like Orton. At least on the field.

[CoryWinget81]

Was he walking away from or toward the deep fryer?

He was leaving your wifes bedroom. I was already done so I was actually yelling it from the bathroom. I think she gave me the clap, dude. Tell her she might wanna get it looked at.

[BroncoJoe]

IDK, he is a lot like Orton. At least on the field.

No.

Mentally, he's a lot like Peyton. Physically, he's a lot like Brian Griese. Not great, not terrible. Serviceable.

[Freyaka]

No.

Mentally, he's a lot like Peyton. Physically, he's a lot like Brian Griese. Not great, not terrible. Serviceable.

I want to argue with this, because it's you saying it. I can't find fault in it, it's a fairly accurate statement overall.

[CoryWinget81]

No.

Mentally, he's a lot like Peyton. Physically, he's a lot like Brian Griese. Not great, not terrible. Serviceable.

I can see that comparison. I think TS has more arm strength that Griese though. I know he throws a lot less wormburners than Griese.

[BroncoJoe]

I want to argue with this, because it's you saying it. I can't find fault in it, it's a fairly accurate statement overall.

Some nemesis you are...

:D

[LawDog]

That's not what I said. But you do rate someone on their entire performance not just the parts you like.

The reverse is true as well, but some (including apparently you) insist that he doesn't have an NFL arm because he has made some bad throws.

[BroncoJoe]

I can see that comparison. I think TS has more arm strength that Griese though. I know he throws a lot less wormburners than Griese.

His arm is fine, and much better than Griese's. I am not a "fan" of Trevor, but I don't think he deserves the vitriol he gets here. And until someone steps up and beats him out for the starting position, I'm rolling with him and will be a supporter. But - it doesn't matter to me who's under center.

Under center. Never really understood that saying. Shouldn't it be behind center?

[BroncoJoe]

And nothing. That's it.

Well, that was weak. Good talk, slim.

[CoryWinget81]

His arm is fine, and much better than Griese's. I am not a "fan" of Trevor, but I don't think he deserves the vitriol he gets here. And until someone steps up and beats him out for the starting position, I'm rolling with him and will be a supporter. But - it doesn't matter to me who's under center.

Under center. Never really understood that saying. Shouldn't it be behind center?


Or under guard, if you're 1983 John Elway.

I'd also go as far to guess that Trevor isn't going to "trip over his dog in the driveway" like Griese used to, either.

[MOtorboat]

The reverse is true as well, but some (including apparently you) insist that he doesn't have an NFL arm because he has made some bad throws.

An NFL arm includes consistency. I don't remember specifically saying he doesn't have the arm, that would be King. I do worry about how badly he was missing sideline throws and how long he hangs on to it. My personal assessment after a full year of watching him is that he is not the long term solution at quarterback. He made good throws, he made bad, had good games, had bad. Personally, I don't see the talent to be much more than that.

[CoryWinget81]

An NFL arm includes consistency. I don't remember specifically saying he doesn't have the arm, that would be King. I do worry about how badly he was missing sideline throws and how long he hangs on to it. My personal assessment after a full year of watching him is that he is not the long term solution at quarterback. He made good throws, he made bad, had good games, had bad. Personally, I don't see the talent to be much more than that.

I think he could be like Jake Delhomme. Not really the most talented guy, but put him in the correct situation and he could do some damage.

I'm hoping this is the correct situation.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I think many have misjudged Trevor's arm talent, due to his injuries last year.

[Freyaka]

I think many have misjudged Trevor's arm talent, due to his injuries last year.

It's not something that's quantifiable until he's stepped foot on the field fully healthy. We'll see what the season brings.

[BroncoJoe]

It's not something that's quantifiable until he's stepped foot on the field fully healthy. We'll see what the season brings.

His first pass ever as an NFL QB said it all. Defensive lineman jumping to deflect the pass, he pumps, then sidearm throws the ball to DT for a first down.

That's an NFL QB, people.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It's not something that's quantifiable until he's stepped foot on the field fully healthy. We'll see what the season brings.

His velocity and accuracy was noticeably better in the first few games before he got hurt.

[Freyaka]

His velocity and accuracy was noticeably better in the first few games before he got hurt.

I am not saying your wrong, just going to be hard to show that his arm is consistently stronger than some advertise until he's on the field again

[CoryWinget81]

His velocity and accuracy was noticeably better in the first few games before he got hurt.

Combined with the fact that he wouldn't (and honestly I neither would I) stand and deliver after he messed his shoulder up. Try and throw a ball one armed 10 yards accurately lol

[Joel]

Combined with the fact that he wouldn't (and honestly I neither would I) stand and deliver after he messed his shoulder up. Try and throw a ball one armed 10 yards accurately lol
Now, imagine 2-3 full seasons of that (when you can hobble on the field) and you'll understand why I consider the likelihood Lynch is our future franchise guy the best reason NOT to put him on the field much last year. I kept seeing peoples ranting demands we ride Lynch (or Siemian; same deal) and thinking, Do you really like the guy, or really REALLY hate him? To borrow the Archer meme:

Do you wanna ruin a great young QB? Because that's how you ruin a great young QB.

[Poet]

Joel's gone weeks and picks up where he's left off.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Combined with the fact that he wouldn't (and honestly I neither would I) stand and deliver after he messed his shoulder up. Try and throw a ball one armed 10 yards accurately lol

With a high ankle sprain, no less. He looked like a mess at times.

[Simple Jaded]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-everything-you-need-to-know-about-broncos-qb-trevor-siemian/

This is Zac Robinson's opinion of Siemian, including his ability to throw outside the numbers. Robinson is a former College and NFL QB, he might know some stuff.

[Poet]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-everything-you-need-to-know-about-broncos-qb-trevor-siemian/

This is Zac Robinson's opinion of Siemian, including his ability to throw outside the numbers. Robinson is a former College and NFL QB, he might know some stuff.

When he throws a deep ball he has to put everything into it. That's what I've always seen from him. However, that can be something that is improved upon. He has 'enough' arm to be in the league, but it's not sensational.

I would prefer to have a QB who has more arm talent. And yeah, a lot of guys in the league who are successful, or were successful, don't have/had huge arms -Brady was knocked for it, Manning was given an adequate grade- It matters.

And coming out of college, they harangued him for decision making - last year, albeit a first year starter, he wasn't exactly great at those either. And man, when they write about how he isn't great in the pocket and feeling pressure, that was obvious last year.

You can tell me on TS becoming a starting QB who is a middle of the pack guy. That's his ceiling. I'm fine with trying to develop someone who can be better than not or moving on until we find one. Average QB play only wins with a dominant defense, and building and maintaining a dominant defense is pretty hard.

[Simple Jaded]

I've got into Drunken Fist fight with a boss...that was before he was my boss.

[Simple Jaded]

Zac Robinson...NFL QB.

It's science.

/thread

[Poet]

Zac Robinson...NFL QB.

It's science.

/thread

I'll miss you.

[dogfish]

I've got into Drunken Fist fight with a boss...that was before he was my boss.

who won?

[CoryWinget81]

With a high ankle sprain, no less. He looked like a mess at times.

Shoulder almost separated off the socket, high ankle sprain, 7th round pick probably your only shot, replacing Peyton Manning and keeping a first round pick on the bench.

If anything, it shows his resolve and his mental make up. He may marginally be an NFL qb physically, but he's got it right in his head. It could've been a LOT worse.

[Poet]

The worst thing for this franchise would be is TS keeps the job, becomes the full-time starter, and we get stuck with the 14-20th best QB in the league.

[Valar Morghulis]

The worst thing for this franchise would be is TS keeps the job, becomes the full-time starter, and we get stuck with the 14-20th best QB in the league.

But that would mean he beat out others that were deemed worse, by two different coaching staff.

The worst thing for this franchise is not Trevor siemian.

It would be worse to blindly start someone who was drafted high and has physical tools....... Just because he was drafted high and has physical tools.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

who won?

I'm guessing it was the guy who now refers to himself as "boss". ;)

[Poet]

But that would mean he beat out others that were deemed worse, by two different coaching staff.

The worst thing for this franchise is not Trevor siemian.

It would be worse to blindly start someone who was drafted high and has physical tools....... Just because he was drafted high and has physical tools.

I think you're being coy you cheeky bugger.

If Lynch can't catch on he can move on elsewhere. But burning through two guys who can't truly hack it (one of which is average) is a long term anchor on the franchise. Average QB's do more harm than JaMarcus Russell's.

[Joel]

The worst thing for this franchise would be is TS keeps the job, becomes the full-time starter, and we get stuck with the 14-20th best QB in the league.
Baloney. It's a classic example of the self-fulfilling circular "argument" that only great QBs win SBs "because" winning a SB instantly "proves" a QB great. It's a great way to needlessly burnish Peyton (and Eli) Mannings HoF credentials or declare Flacco and Big Ben "elite," but "reality has a well known... bias" against it.

Broadway Joe was not a great QB. Ironically like Manning, Unitas was a FORMERLY great QB in BOTH his SBs, splitting time with Earl Morrall (who started SB III and came off the bench to win SB V) because of injuries to both QBs.

Among QBs who played entirely within the SB era, Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler and Mark Rypien weren't great, yet each won a SB within a span of just seven years (Montana won the other two.) Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson weren't great and neither is Flacco.

That's without considering "bubble greats" like Bradshaw, Griese and Starr, whom no one would remember had they lacked the luck to be drafted by legendary teams that made them unforgettable instead. Or the many HoF QBs who never won a SB (i.e. Tarkenton and Marino) nor even PLAYED one (i.e. Moon and Fouts.)

Before anyone invokes a false dichotomy, none of that is an argument every dynasty can make any clumsy noodle-armed mouthbreather into a champion HoF QB (even if Pitt does it for TWO of them. :tongue:) It's only to say that a team elite at all or most other positions can get by with a "merely" adequate QB (bearing in mind that NFL QB "adequacy" is still 99th percentile ability.)

Is mediocrity at QB a greater obstacle to championships than at any other position; does it demand champions have even more elite players at even more other positions? Sure. Is it easier to win with greatness ONLY at QB than at any other position? Unquestionably. But this fallacy that lacking the ~2-3 HoF QBs playing at any given time makes every team an automatic also-ran just isn't true:

Strictly average QBs have won at least 16% SBs, and arguably more than TWICE that many.

The worst thing Denver or any team can do is fixate on a few prominent pieces of the championship puzzle to the exclusion of all others I don't honestly believe Clevelands scouts so incompetent they couldn't find even ONE good QB in a DECADE of top 10 picks (often top 5 or even top 3.) I believe them (and their GMs and owner) so incompetent they approached "team"-building like a third grader (of FF owner) by just grabbing the top QB, pass rushing and secondary prospects, dismissing everything else as irrelevant trivialities. I'll give them credit for grabbing 2-3 great offensive linemen, but they've never had much anywhere else, and even the best QB of all time would struggle to win games with that.

[Poet]

Oh god - I'm not reading a bunch of shit. You don't win with averge QB's consistently. It's a death sentence of mediocre and tepid existence.

[Poet]

Strictly average QB's require your team to be absurdly great -- and many of those win's occurred before this era, where QB play seems to matter the most .

[dogfish]

lmao! it's not a joel post if earl morrall doesn't get worked in there somewhere. . . .

[Simple Jaded]

who won?

I'm making a comeback. But don't call it a comeback.

[Northman]

What happened in the utterly archaic age of professional football is irrelevant to today's style of football. Hell, its irrelevant to the style of football going back to the 80's. Since 1990 alone of the SB winners there has been 12 QB's either in the HOF or a basic shoe in. Thats not including Eli who is probably on the bubble as of now. Outside of that there are 4 QB's who definitely wont make it (unless Flacco and Wilson end up throwing up incredible stats to finish their careers). Current history says having a HOF QB is vastly important to establishing a dynasty.

[Simple Jaded]

Earl Morrel is the bell bottom corduroys of QB's.

[Cugel]

Oh god - I'm not reading a bunch of shit. You don't win with averge QB's consistently. It's a death sentence of mediocre and tepid existence.

I'll shorten it down for you Von Kinger.

Joel is arguing from a bunch of examples that you can win the SB with mediocre QBs. Rather than arguing back, I'm just going to say "not very often you don't."

And Elway is not going to be happy until he has a top 10 QB, because that guy gives him the best chance to win SBs.

Every year you either have to host the Patriots or go to Foxborough for the AFC Championship - and they have Tom Brady. You don't. Which means your QB isn't going to be nearly as good. Which means the rest of your team has to be better than theirs if you intend to win.

But, there's a limit on how much better the rest of your team can be. After all the Patriots' FA acquisitions this season they are head and shoulders above the rest of the league. The only way anybody is going to catch them is to get top 10 QB play AND have a better defense. Well, the Broncos have one of those things so far. . . . .